this sunday, the white house predicts high unemployment through next the white house creates high unemployment. on this labor day weekend, the jobless rate stands at 9.1%. 'row job growth for august. companies are still slow to hire and a slow housing market prevents recovery. the president prepares to speak to congress and the nation about

what the government can do to get people back to work. what are the prospects of washington acting during a fight over the economy? political paralysis is one of the factors holding america back, raising new fears that our country is in decline. this morning, a special discussion featuring thomas friedman, co-author of the new book, that used to be us. how america fell behind in the world and how we can come back. plus, previewing the political battles ahead in the 2012 campaign as republicans prepare to square off. it will include a new force in the republican field, texas governor, rick perry. historian and author doris kear kearns. maxine waters and political strategist, mark mckinnon. as the nation prepares to mark ten years since the 9/11 attack,

veteran of iraq and afghanistan, joseph joins his mother doris to discuss how that day changed his life. how the attacks defined his generation. good morning. labor day weekend marks the unfortunate end of summer and kicks off a high stakes political season. if there's a headline that underscores what this campaign is about, it's the zero job growth latest bleak sign for the u.s. economy. as we near the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, america is taking stock on what it meant and the challenges the country now faces. the president will yet, again try to focus attention on jobs. as the economy is stuck is slow growth. this week, american was reminded

with what's wrong with washington. a short-lived but intense back and forth over when the president should address congress and the american people. in the end, it will be thursday at 7:00. avoiding a conflict of the republicans debate. >> the side shows don't matter. the economy matters. >> it does. and it's not getting better. how likely is it congress will pass an obama jobs package that includes more spending in the economy? you remember the debt ceiling debate. >> we have to create more jobs and do it faster. most of all, we have to break the gridlock in washington that has been preventing us from taking the action we need to get this country moving. >> gridlock happens when there's an election. it's coming faster than you may like. this is a week for serious jockeying in the race.

is sarah palin in or out? she dangled the option in front of an audience. >> the challenge is who and what we will replace him with. >> mitt romney replacing rick perry in the polls will use the debate to begin a line of attack. >> i spent most of my life outside politics, dealing with real problems in the real economy. career politicians got us into this mess and they simply don't know how to get us out. >> republicans and democrats are having the debate. the question is, as a nation, are we having the right conversation about the best way forward? it's what we are going to attempt here forward. joining us now, presidential historian doris kearns goodwin and co-author of the book "that

used to be us." how to come back. tom friedman as well as former advisers to george w. bush and john mccain. he puts party labels aside in politics. welcome to all of you. happy end of summer. that's what this means and the challenges that await us as we get into the fall from steep. here is the context of this debate we are having in politics and the debate about the economy. the unemployment numbers out in august kept unemployment at 9.1%. no job growth in august. these are the predictions the white house released, keeping unemployment at 9% through the election year. it comes down to 7.8% by 2014. something caught my eye, howard from the peterson institute, he said this is not just a jobless recovery. it's a recoveryless recovery.

tom friedman, the book is, "that used to be us." it talks about what's holding america back and the fear of america's decline. with that backdrop, what is the point in the framing of the book? >> what we are basically arguing is we have had good news and bad news. the bad news is this problem didn't start in 2008. this problem, in our view, started at the end of the cold war. there is a way out if we understand where we are. i think four big points, basically. first of all, we made the worst mistake a country or species can make at the end of the cold war. we interpreted the victory in the cold war as a victory. not understanding the on set of one of the biggest challenges we face as a country. we unleash 2 billion people just like us. thanks to the peace dividend and

productivity boost of the internet and thanks most importantly to the collapse in oil prices, which is like a huge tax cut. that brings us to the 21st century. the '90s like like a victory for the united states. start with the 9/11. it set us on a bad course. we spent for the last decade in many ways excessively, chasing the losers from the globalization rather than the runners. we made up for the fall behind by injecting ourselves with steroids. we injected ourselves with steroids. a big technological change. the grid of the world, basically, the number of the people who compete exploded in the last decade. i wrote a book called "the world is flat" about the connecting of

the world. we have gone from connected to hyperinfected. when we sat down to write the book, i looked in the index. i realized that facebook wasn't in it. when i say the world was flat, facebook didn't exist. the cloud was in the sky. 4g was a parking space. for most people, facebook was a typo. that all happened in just the last seven years. what it's done is taken the world from connected to hyperconnected. it's a huge opportunity and a huge challenge. it's all overlaid. we went from the greatest generation whose philosophy was save and invest and we are still living off the saving and investing to the baby boom generation. we have really shifted from a generation born in the depression, world war ii and the

cold war. they were serious people. to a generation basically that is much less serious. we have gone from basically the values of the greatest generation which where what doug called sustainable values to a baby boom generation. do whatever the situation allows. put them together and i think you account for a lot of the hole we are in right now structurally. >> that's the big picture that we will unpap. go to the immediate. the background, not just what got us here, but we are facing persistent unemployment and the fact the economy is not growing. we are going to hear from the president this week. what is he going to say? what is it that government can do? >> i think the president thooz decide if he wants an election issue or get something done. if he wants an election issue,

he'll go big. colleagues are talking we'll go fdr all over again, a big new jobs program financed by government, more regulation. i think it's going to be a recipe for gridlock for the rest of the year. it will certainly set up a framework for the election debate. if he wants to get something done, go for a big tax reform saying you want tax cuts, okay. we'll reduce the rate. get rid of the credits and other things to help pay for that. i don't know what they do. i think they would be back on their heels and say, whoa, this changes the debate in a way we hadn't expected. a run against washington. he's now arguing on our turf. that's the fundamental choice the president has to make. if he wants to change the debate, that's the direction i would go with. >> congresswoman waters, labor day being tomorrow, we spoke

with the president of teamsters about the american worker and what he would like to see from the president this week as part of the press pass conversation available online. >> i think we have to start getting big business to start hiring people. he's got to have a plan that is bold and hires people. come out of a wpa program. hire the unemployed. put them to work rebuilding america. >> is this possible? it's what paul was talking about. you are in congress. you have seen the debt debate. >> i absolutely agree, the president must be bold. i agree he must have a jobs program. i'm talking a program of $1 trillion or more. we have to put americans to work. it's the only way to revitalize the economy. when people work and earn money, they spend that money. that is what gets the economy up and going. i don't think you can trick the

right. i don't think you can have a program that simply gives more tax breaks to the people who got us in the trouble in the first place. i'm hopeful. i'm very hopeful the president is going to put a big program out there and he's going to fight very hard for it. >> mark. >> the problem is not just the economy, but our politics. bill was a great pollster and did an amazing study that was jaw dropping. consumer confidence dropped 15 points in two months. it's the result of the way the debt was handled. the debate and nature of the debate. it's the politics in the way politics are handled that's creating a break down in confidence to handle the problems out there today. it's key bomb barometer. it's interesting to note, an

average for presidents, an average when they win, it's 95.9. when they lose rksz 78.4. the consumer confidence index, 55.7. >> talk about that, faith and leadership. this is a cartoon we liked this week from jimmy's the record of hackensack, new jersey. the president is in a boat because of the flood zone. he's got a copy in his hand. he says i remember when i couldn't walk on this water. this is a fact that it's great expectation now a great disappointment in the president not just on the right, but his supporters. >> i hope he can save the cartoons. teddy roosevelt loved them and put them on his wall. it's a political crisis as well as economic crisis. he has to be able to persuade

people that government can do something about it. i think he talks to the republicans in two ways. talk tax reform to pay for a jobs program. every republican said jobs creation. tell them, if that's what you want, here are specific things to do and here is how you can do it. it's what truman did. we are going to deal with the housing crisis, inflation, education. he called them back in the special session, the turnip session. they did nothing. then he was able to say why didn't you do anything? if they want to deal with job creation, they have to be clear, make a visual. you can't just list things. you have to explain how it would work and challenge them to do it and find a way to pay for it. it's what he did before he got screwed up in the inflation. people loved it.

>> isn't a big part of the debate and it's embedded in tom's book, the role of government. historically, you had great public-private partnership. now, the notion of government being the last actor to create the economy to a generation of conservatives. i say this new generation in the past, the outgrowth saying hey, we have done enough of that as government. is there a way to get it back? >> that's the fundamental dispute here. what doris is suggesting, the stimulus, is widely perceived to have not creigh crated jobs. it's going to be a hard sell to get republicans to agree to more spending with the debt figures. the other problem, the general mistrust in the government showed the approval rating for government was below oil and gas

cobs. probably below journalists, which is hard to believe. 17% approval rating, the country is saying we don't think government can create the jobs. we have to give and send it to the private sector like we did in the '80s and '90s to grow again. >> i don't know about the media. michael and i focused on the longer term trend. we interviewed four major employers. we interviewed a man when he was head of the army corps. here is what employers will tell you. they are all looking for the same kind of employee. someone with critical thinking and reasoning to get an interview. what they are actually looking for are people who can adapt, invent and reinvent the job. in this world, changes are happening so fast.

companies that employers use because the product cycle is changing to fast. you can't wait until the end of the year to find out you have a bad team member. what we argue in the book going forward is two countries in the world. high imagination enabling countries and low imagination enabling countries. jump to amazon.com and do fulfillment, go to craigslist. what isn't a commodity is this. the countries thriving, look at israel. start-up nations. we are not going bail our ways out of this crisis or stimulate ourselves. we are going to educate ourselves out. >> on the topic of education, look inside the unemployment

numbers as we did for august. this is what you find. if you have less than a high school degree, the unemployment rate is 14.3%. high school, 9.6%. bachelors or higher, 4.3%, half of the national average. we always pay lip service education is the top issue. it's not in the voting booth, however. >> absolutely not. to tell you the truth, the plight of education in this country is shameful. just a few days ago, i learned that more cities, more states are reducing the number of education days down to four instead of five. i could not help but stop and think, is this america? is this the country that said and continues to say that education is top priority? why are we not investing more in

education? why do we have drop outs? why do we have educational systems that are failing? why is it that we have a situation where many of our young people will not be able to compete in this high-tech logical society. we pay lip service to education. we don't invest in it. that's got to change. let me say this. americans want to work. this joblessness is not only hitting the middle class, but it is hitting all classes. it is absolutely on conable what is happening in the minor si community. no jobs having been created in august and it's increased up now 16.7% and now we are going to talk about cutting government by

$1.5 trillion. this new membership we have after raising the debt ceiling debate? that means we are going to move more jobs. more people are going to be unempl unemployed. the african-american rate will probably go up to 20%. i don't know how our country can sustain that. >> this is the issue. whether you are more of a sen tryst or you are a conservative, i mean there is a different level of faith in government to usher in a kind of change that the congresswoman is talking about. for a government to do what government did in fdrs time. >> no question. what people believe is we need big, bold changes. i'm worried we are nibbling around the edges and people tend to disconnect the jobs. my biggest criticism of the president, two fiscal commissions he could have embraced and taken on the

challenges. >> there's something, doris in this book, in tom's book about risk taking. what is the risk president obama should be willing to take and what is he actually willing to take? >> he has to show he's willing to take a risk. we need to show strength in washington, strength in him. one thing about whether to give it on wednesday or thursday night is giving into congress. i don't think he has anything to lose by going and make people believe in government. government is not only washington, they are our teachers, they are the people you want out there. they are the policemen. we collectively are government. what does it mean? we work together to solve our country's problems? what did we do in world war ii? the company came together. ships, tanks and weapons in the world. it was labor partnership. we can do it again.

we have made government out there and here we are. the people running for politics hate government. what is the point? why be a politician if you hate government? it doesn't make sense to me. >> conservatives are saying we have too much government, it's not the answer. it's part of the problem. get in touch with inner ronald reagan. tom, what you have not seen are liberals like the congresswoman here embraced the government and role of government. from the president, an unwillingness to stand-up and say hey, i put my hand up for government. government is part of the answer here. >> this is the core argument of my book. we didn't get here by accident as a great country. how did we win in every historical turn? we had a formula for success. you can see it in lincoln. it was five. basically, educate our people up

to the level of technology. immigration. attract the world's most talented and energetic people. infrastructure, the best infrastructu infrastructure. the rules in risk taking, and last government funded research. put them together. bake for 200 years and you get the united states of america. if you take all five and look at the last decade, the terrible twos, probably the worst decade in american history. education, infrastructure, immigration, rules for investing, subprime prices -- >> research and development. >> research and development. all five of the pillars of success have been weakened. it's what we have to be looking. the president thooz defend it. >> he gave a speech about the pillars. one of the best speeches ne gave

a year and a half ago. >> you didn't do squat on your own. you did it because of the private-public partnership. >> growth is where the jobs come from. it's where the debate is. the irony is the prestige and government collapsed when government tried to do much more and do more than it's capable of doing. government prestige increased under ronald reagan. when you focus on a couple things and do it well, it gets things growing. they are confident. >> confidence and competent is a huge issue. the issue for president bush was not just hurricane katrina. people were not opposing the iraq war, they were opposing failure. if things went well, it would be

a different reaction. i want to come back and talk about politics. one of the things you write about, tom, is the politics. we will talk about the political week ahead when we come back after this. [ agent ] so your policy looks good, is there anything else? why did you buy my husband a falcon? thanks for the falcon. i didn't buy anyone a falcon. sure, you did. you saved us a lot of money on auto insurance. i used that money to buy a falcon. ergo, you bought me a falcon. i should've got a falcon. most people who switch to state farm save on average about $480. what they do with it, well, that's their business. oh, that explains a lot, actually. [ chuckles ] [ male announcer ] another reason

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we're back now with more of our roundtable.

big political week ahead. this is labor day weekend, kicking off the marathon that is the presidential race. let's look at our week ahead. romney's got a tea party rally in new hampshire, a big tea party rally in columbia, souh carolina, tomorrow as wel we've got a new polloming out on tuesday. wednesday is what i really wanted to flag. it's the nbc news/politico debate at the reagan library, 8:00 p.m. eastern. that's going to be a big event, principally because it will be texas governorick perry's first debate, and we'll be watching that very closel and speaking of governor perry, he was asked this weekend by a 9-year-old who his favorite superhero was, and here we're talking about how to get the country back on track, what's holdi america back,fears of america's decline. this is a conversation that's happening, in some ways, on the campaign trail. so, again, here's a 9-year-old who asked perry about his favorite superhero and here's what he said. >> i'm going to show you my age a little bit, because i don't know any of the current superheroes, but there was one

back in my day called superman, and superman came to save the united states. >> it inspired a little bit of laughter, but the serious point in all of that is that this is really the framing of his candidacy. >> yeah. >> which is, america is off on the wrong track and yo need, bacally, waiting for superman, like the film about education, is that what this political campaign is abo and is perry superman? >> well, he's going to contrast the record in washington over the last decade with the record in texas over the last decade, particularly in j creation, and it's a very different and very good message for perry to make because they have created jobs, they have done a lot of the things that we say we want to do in washington and haven't. that's his big, big strength. also, he has the best line of the campaign, where he says, so far i think for therepublicans, which is, i'm going to get up every day and t to make washington as incoequential in your lives as i can, and that's a message that resonates with republican primary voters. now, this is a big challenge for him wednesday, though, because the question is, with all of that behind him, he has rocketed

up in public attention. now, does he have the staying power to thator is he going to make mistakes that knock h back down? >>ark minnon, you framed this fight on the republican side as only you can do, with "happy days" references. for those who might be, you know, under 30 watching right now, that was a fairly successful television program. how do you see perry versus romney? >> well, i see it as a race between arthur fonz rellie and ritchie cunningham, and i think we remember o ritchie cunningham is. perry has taken off because he is giving voice to the anger and the heat in the republican primary, that anti-washington sentiment. he has honed that down to a fine art, and he's got the jobs story. he's created -- there's been more private sector jobs created in texas in the last ten years than the entire country combined. so, he's got a compelling message. now, he's getting up on the big stage this week and never been in th national debate, never been in this deba before. he's had nine elections in

texas. he a great campaigner, but this is going to be a big moment, a lot of people's first look. big stage, a lot on the line. >> go ahead. >> as i understand it, the marity of the jobs that were created were government jobs in texas, and i think we have to get -- >> ivate sector, though, more private sector jobs. >> we've got to get the exact information about where these bs came from. >> i think, right, th will be better over time. let's look at the lineup loinks right now accordingo quinnipiac, and you do have perryn top followed by romy and sarah palin, whch gets to our "trend acker" right now, tracking the hot political stories. and you may not be surprised when you look at the tracker that it's sarah palin, still the question, as she was in iowa over the weekend and dropping hints and making eeches. will she run, tom friedman? there'still a great deal of interest in sarah palin as this political force in the middle of this huge conversation we're trying to ve. >> well, first, it's not a sign of the apocalypse, you know, because this woman, everything i hear from her has nothing to do with what we argue in our book,

the long-term trends of where our country's at. there's no short-term solution, not just getting rid of oba. what strikes me about this moment, david, is we're in an economic crisis and the politicians have having an election and there's like no overlap between the two, almost? these two circle? one of my favorite quotes in researching this, went into singapore. singapore's on the edge, economists there said we're in a thatch hut with no doors and no windows. we feel every change of breeze, every change of temperature, and we have to adjust. you americans, you live in a brick hse with ctral heating. you can sort of feel nothin so, where are we starting the conversation in the country righnow? are we starting the conversation where we should start it? what world are we living in? what are the big changes in the world? here's a change, i just saw mark mckinnon read his notes off an iphone being captured by a robotic camera. ten years ago, a secretary drew up the notes and three people were operating that camera. those jobs are gone and ey're not coming back. how do we adapt to that world? that's the question. >> in a scary time like this,

what's interesting though, is somebody like perry, even though he might t appeal to the independents easily, as much as romney mighnot eventually, because some of his stands, saying social security is unconstitutional, the come tax is bad, we go back to the senators being electe by legislators, where you could buy your way into the senate. but on the other hand, the strength, confidence, the jazziness, the swagger he shows is somemes what people care about even more than identity of issues when they're in tough times. so, it means not looking at where a person's going to bring us, but the fact that this guy lov campaigning and he's got strength. but then, the interesting thing ishat romney does beat him, it will make romney much stronger than if he had coasted as a candidate, because he'll have to show, and then he'll look more moderate in comparison to mr. perry. >> i want to ask you, one othe things, you talk to people around the country and they're frankly disgusted with washington. >> that's right. >> they want more compromise. >> that's right. >> then there's people, yourself and others, who say out of the president we wanto see more fight. >> yes. and it's the extremity in language, it's the intensity of

fight. and you have an example ofhis as well. >> sure. >> going back to this august, you said the following whenou were out i englewood in your district, about the tea party, and i want to play it. >> as far as i'm concerned, the tea party can straight to hell. and i intendo help them get there. >> now, it's an applause line, but obviously, congresswoman, is that really how you win the debate? >> let meay this, americans are angry and they're angry at poitians and government because they feel as if their government really does not care enough about them and their plight. they want jobs. the congressional black caucus we to five cities during our break, and some of the information that we gained basically helped us to understand there's desperation, there'shopelessness, and people think that they have to bail out the big banks and these financial instition and they're getting nothing for it. and one thing they're rally angry aboutis the fact that

these call centers are offshore, where, for example, you had at&t said, well, if you give me my merger, i'll bring my call centers back. and they feel as if the call centers should be brought back, that should make it too expensive for our companies, our businesses to take these jobs offshore. they want the jobs and they want it back. >> it's a little bit like fighting the last war. you know, times have changed. the's populism on the right, paul, and there's populism on the left. that's what's feeling the tea party, but that's not necessarily getting us to a place of solutions. >> in the end, this is a election that wl be settled on big ideas, which is ere the country is in 2012. if president obama is re-elected, his economic policies will have been validated and he will be able to continue in that directio if,owever, ey are repudia repudiated, i think you'll see us move in a direction not unlike the kind of watershed election of 1980, where ronald reagan said i have a different idea and i want to go in a different rection, and we'll

give that a try. yes, there will begreements in the middle, but ultimately, that's what we do in elections, we set a direction. we've had a direction now for 30 month the public is saying we're not satisfied with that direction, we're going to have a referendum on those policies. that's what we do in politics in this country. >> right, butmark mckinnon, you've become a no labels guy, after working for republican candidates or republican president and governor bush. how do we somehow change incentives in campaigns so the kind of risk-taking that all of us around the table seem to agree is a good idea in public policy and in politic actually gets rewarded instead of penalized? >> well, that's exactly why no labels was launched in december d we have 300,000 members strong now, and we hear from americans across the country saying we want everybody at the table, everything on the table. politics is a market, and that market is a majority out there. they've just been quiet. in recent years, because of everything that was happening, the response was simply to throw their hands up and say we don't care, but now the stakes are too

high and they're engaging, and i think there's going to be a huge response from the middle of america. and what they want is the parties working together. they want everybody at the table, everything on the table, and they know it will take big, bold solutions and erybody's going to have to sacrifice. >> it's interesting, doris, one of the applause lines that mitt romney had that we played earlier was the idhat we got a lot of government lifers, a lot of people who have been in government a long time. they're not necessarily ones to lead us out of this mess, because the sparks, this is not something you said, but this is something you did, t it's the communication -- we know what this mean -- is going on, not in government, unfornately, because the penalties are just toohigh for that sort of spark creation. that seems to be a factor. >> i mean, i think there's something to that. there's something about a bureaucratic mtality, when you've been in these big buildings in washington for a ng period of time, you've got tons of regulations going on top of you, th you can't think imaginatively, but we have to remember, government is not just that. government, as i said today,is people working together

collectivelyo put their talents to use withrivate energy, with the labor union, and together, those threesomes doing something. you can't take government out of the picture because government is collective will of us. if you want to go back to the rugged individuals and the robber baron of the 19th century, that was great, government was nothing and we were terrible back then. >> tom, you advocate a third paty. mayor michael bloomberg in new york has said on this program no way, no how is that going to happen. he would be among the strongest contenders to try to carry that off. >> well, it does seem to me that we do need a shock. lik the shock therapy we administered to the soviet union at th end of the cold war. the system needs a shock. i agree with paul, i hope the next election will be on a big idea, but i hope it's not just big government versus small government. i hope it's our formula for success and getting back to it. people come to michael ame say does your book have a happy ending? and we tell everyone, it does have a happy ending. we just don't know it's fiction or nonfiction. that really depends on us. but what makes me optimistic is that this country is still fu of people who just didn't get

the word, and they are starting things and inventing things and creating things and organizing things. if you want to be an optimist about america, stand on your head. you look at this coury from the bottom up, you see the potential. we're like the space shuttle, all that thrust coming from below, but right now, the booster rocket, washington, d.c., is cracked and leaking energy, and the pilots in the cockpit are fighting over the flight plan, so we can't achieve the escape velocity we need now to get to the next level. you fix those two things, we take off. my favorite quote in this book is -- >> before we get to the next level, we've got to recognize that there are big problems this count, foreclosures. the banks will not do loan modifications and we have not come up with a program with which we can keep people in thr homes. we need to be boldnough for the president to say to the bankers, you come into this ofce, we're going to talk about how we're going to write down principals, how we're going to keep people in these homes, how we're going to make sure t interest rates are no more than

4%. people want to hear the answers about how they're going to have just a decent quality of life. >> your question to tom, something he's written about. there's going to be an efforton all 50 states, ballot access for an alternative nomiting convention in all 50 states next year. so, there's some things going on out there. it's called americans elect. so, there will be an alternative nominating process. so, there's frustration out there and people are tired with the system the way it is. they're working wiin the system at no labels, but there are things happening outside of the system as well. >> all rit, we'll leave it there. thank you all very much. this morning, before we take a break, here's a programming note. for more on tom friedman's book "that used to be us: how america fell behind in the world it invented and how we can come back," you can watch his live interview on the "today" program. that's tuesday morning. plus, listen to an audio excerpt on our website, mtp.msnbc.com. and coming up here, for many of the events of 9/11 led to

life-changing decisions. for joseph kearns goodwin, it was a call to serve. as the nation prepares for the tenth anniversary of the attack, we'll look back at how that day affected his life, how it defined his generation. former army captai joseph defined his generation. former army captai joseph kearns goodwin and his mother, (announcer) everything you need to stretch out on long trips. residence inn. do you have an irregular heartbeat called atrial fibrillation, or afib, that's not caused by a heart valve problem? are you taking warfarin to reduce your risk of stroke caused by a clot? you should know about pradaxa. an important study showed that pradaxa 150mg reduced stroke risk 35% more than warfarin. and with pradaxa, there's no need for those regular blood tests. pradaxa is progress. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding,

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we're back with a special dcussion as we look ahead to the tenth anniversary of 9/11. joining me now, bronze star veteran of the wrs in iraq and afghanistan, former army captain joseph kearns goodwin, and his mom, presidential historian doris kearns goodwin, who is back with us. welcome to both of you. this gets a t more personal, right, doris? the big issues. well, joe, it's great to have you here. >> thank you. >> and as we talk about ten years after9/11, i wanted to talk about what that day meant and what actually happened on that day for you and the days that followed it. >> sure. well, i was i graduated college in the spring of '01, was

getting ready to work for a political cultancy in washiton, around here. and i sortf thought about going into the army but never took it seriously. then after september 11th, i noticed my world sort of inexorably changed, as for a lot of people. and i went to my mom and said i know what i'm doing now. and she said, yeah, yore not ining the army. but i said actually, the opposite. i signed up for what i thought was three years, but what was actually six. a lesson in reading the fine print, but that said, it turned out to be an incredible experience. >> know you're here this morning as a veteran and al as a mere representative of so many others who served and volunteered to serve and who werelready serving. >> right. >>rior to 9/11, and who were trained andeady for that moment of great consequence. but describe the emotions of that time for you and what compelled you to say ive got to do somethi. >> you know, it w not so much sort of anger or a sense i wanted vengeance for the people who attacked us. there was maybe an element of that, but it was more an

understanding, there i was, just graduated college, i had not embarked yet on a career, and it became pretty clear on september 11th and the days that followed that some young people were going to be needed to do something somewhere. we didn't know what it was before afghanistan, let alone before iraq. and i had been granted almost every advantage that a free and prosperous sociy can give you. i went to a great public school system, a great university that i was prepared for because of that public scol, i had a great family, i had a great red sox team, although in 2001 it was probably more heartache than joy. and just sort of felt that because i was ready, willing and in relatively good shape it was incumbent upon me to give somehing back to this great country that had given me so much. >> doris, you were on the program the week after the war in iraq started with tim, and this is the exchange you had. >> you are an historian, but your most important job is a mother. your son enlisted in the military after september 11th, 2nd lieutenant joseph kearns gowin. what are your thoughts as a moer this morning as he finishes his flight school? >> well, e's currently in jump traing, parachute training.

i couldn't even go on a roller coaster, so physically, i'm in awe of what he's been through. but mentally, heeels the army has trained him as best as it could. he's been in leadersh positions all along the way. he's m people he never would have met at harvard college or concord, massachusetts, and he's never second guessed it. so i have to respect his decision. he'll be going overseas, whether he's deployed to iraq, i don't kno >> he was ready forar and that was a brave face, mom. >> it was a graeme face, because underneath, especially once he got to iraq -- it was something, at the very beginni, i was so proud of his decision. i thoht he would be part of a whole generation that were going to join and do something to help our country. and as a historian, i was thrilled for him that he would have that experience, but once iraq was there and once we started getting letters back from him from iraq, very scary kinds of things. he didn't tell us half of what was going on. then you wake up like any military familydoes. and every time you read something, you worry, will something happen? you obssively look at the television, then you don't want to look at the television. i think the hardest part for me,

to be honest, was not iraq. he got through that, he did well, he did incredibly well. but then he came back home, and then like so many others, he was called back to another tour of duty. and they came to our house, the gobbledygook fm the military, i couldn't read it, i said i think you're being called back to active service in afghanistan, and i had to tell him. he was working here at nbc. but all of the ranging emotions as a mother, as a historian, in t end, i think he's seen a world he would not have otherwise seen. i am so proud of him. >> gentlemjoe, you wrote a few ago that you really didn't feel america was at war. >> right. >> as we are a decade later, where are we after 9/11? do we as a country feel less secure, do we have less faith in government? how have we changed? >> i do think, getting to your original point there was a hge missed original opportunity after 9/11. as tragic as those events were, they did really bind us together as a country for a brief perid of time, and i felt that a lot of the kind of ms we find ourselves in today might have been forestalled if back then people had been asked to contribute to the effort to the

country in ways that they weren't. that doesn't mn necessarily bolstering the ranks of the army. that would be great, so you don't have poorids going back on a fifth and sixth tour, but during world war ii, and she probably can talk about this far better than i can, you had people that took tax increases, there were fuel rationing, kids were putting together rubber bands for the war effort. that call to service never came for us. and if we had asked people to sacrifice on september 12th,nd i think they were ready, willing and able to do it, instead of putting two wars on a credit card, maybe we wouldn't have been in the mess we are now because peopleere ready to respond. >> this has beenthe defense the last decade, preventing another attack. we've been at it for ten years. we will conclude wars in afghanistan and iaq likely without much fanfare and without very clear results. this is not the end of world war ii. we've been having this nversation about the restoration of america's greatness, if there's th feeling of decline. what are our emotions, do u think, emotions of a country ten years later?

>> i think the hardest thing in contrast to the decade after pearl harbor was when everybody participated in that decade of world war ii, you had everybody knew somebody who was fighting overseas. you had a manhattan project for atomic ergy. you had, as you said, the rubber bands being rolled up. there was a feeling of closure when the war cameo an end and aeeling of we all did it together. we've been spectators, most of the country, in this decade to the wars in iraq and afanisn, and that was one of the things, what's so difficult. when joey's letters came home, not only did we read them to everybodyecause everybody in our family wanted to read them it was like primitive, going to the letters of 100 years ago. there was no e-mail in the beginning. but everybody we knew would want to hear about them because it was their e brush. because especially in our ivy league world upn boston, not many kids had joined the army then. the letters, i think, were the lifeline for him and for me. his brother michael who is 15 months older, wrote a hand-written letter to him iraq. and i kept thinking, they were 4 and 5 years old arguing about

who had more cereal in their box and now they're friends that's all i thought, i'd be dead and they'd have each other. >> the images played out when osama bin laden was kille were really striking. outside of thewhithouse, jubilation. i mean, young people, a young guy who goes to college here in washingn who went down there to be part of this. at least this was an element of 9/11 that you can remember from being scared as a young person -- >> right. >> -- to now it becoming some element of closure there, these scenes playing outat ohio state university. >> yeah, no, they're pretty spectacul, and i think you're right. for my generation at the close of the cold war, there was that ten-year period where there was maybe a snse of, hey, nothi's wrong in the world, we're all safe, everything's going forward. 9/11 was a stark reminder that the world is a dangerous one, it's a tough one, one with real issues and real problems. i don't think that's new for my generation, but that was sort of the tme when my generation realized something that previous generations realized for previous events. >> there's a conversation going

on as we're having our digitally and on facebook. this caught our attention from bryce g. graduating from high school in 2000 "means many of my friends and family have served and continue to serve. this makes us a generation desensitized and acstomed to conflict and war. i have a sick feeling that if a time of peace actually happens again, we will be suspicious of it." a fin thought here, joe, it ties together with this notion of being the new greatest generation. what defines your generation that experienced 9/11 and served afterward, as you think about leadership, as you think about national purpose? >> sure. well, i think what's great about america, what is great about any generation is 9/11 was a defining ment, but it's not what defines our generation. i think at's so great about us througho our history is to be able to encounter an event like 9/11, see what needso be done, try to overcome it, but then go on with our lives,go on with the business of, you know, of work and play, and you know, everything all together. so, like i said, while it is definitional, i don't think it

should define us. >> all right. thank you for your service. >> it was my honor, it really was. >> thank you, doris. as we think about 9/11 this morning and next sunday's tenth anniversary, we want to remember those who were lost that horrible day, innocent victims as well as first responders, firefighters, police and others, and we remember to say thank you to the men and women o our volunteer armed forces,like joe, who have fought and died and served multiple deployments in iraq and afghanistan while their families endured their absence back home. one such warrior who defined military leadership in the post-9/11 era took off the uniform this week. general david petraeus, commander of u.s. forces in afghanistan, and before that, se centcom commander and before that, commander of u.s. forces in iraq, retired after 37 years of service in the army, as he prepareto take the helm as director of the central intelligence agency. petraeus changed the army, reengineering how troops are trained and how they engage and fight the enemy. he most notably led the surge in

iraq. chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, admiral mike mullen, called petraeus not just one of the most important military figures of our time, but of all time. to him and to his wife, holly, we offer our thanks and gratitude. next sunday on 9/11, "meet theress" will not air as normal. instead, i'll be part of our special network coverage along with brian williams, tom brokaw and lester holt. "9/11: america remembers." we'll span the events and critical moments during the morning of 9/11. join us as we look back on that fateful day one decade later. an one other programming note. youan watch the rebroadcast of today's program this afternoon on msnbc at 2:00 p.m. eastern well as tomorrow morning for early risers at 6:00 a.m. eastern. early risers at 6:00 a.m. eastern. that is all for today. yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins. fresh wins.

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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com perfected in the 556-horsepower cts-v. >> announcer: and now an msnbc special event. anchor rachel maddow, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel draws from the frontlines of reporting from the war on terror. together, they examine what america has done for national security since 9/11, to itself and the world.

>> the u.s. military's largest building project since the pentagon in fairfax county, virginia. the national intelligence agency. taxpayer owned. our department of homeland security headquarters. a $3.4 billion refit of a former washington, d.c., mental hospital. also our national counterterrorism center. our joint use intelligence analysis facility. our national reconnaissance office. "the washington post" this year calculated that since 9/11, we have built enough new american national security office space to fill 22 u.s. capitals. and that's just what is set aside for top secret intelligence work. there's also the military bases, closing them in saudi arabia, opening them in afghanistan and iraq. expanding them all over central asia. of course, there's the prisons too.

when the pentagon was hit on september 11, 2001, nearly 1/3 of the usable office space in that, the largest office building in the world, was damaged. by the impact of the hijacked plane, and by the fire that burned thereafter. the pentagon was completely rebuilt, less than one year after the 9/11 attack. in new york city, the reopening of what everyone still calls ground zero will mark 10 years since the attack. understanding how we were changed by 9/11 takes some analysis and some understanding, but some of it is just physical. some of it you can just see. thinking about how we have changed since 9/11, it's almost like the more granular, the more specific, the more physical you get the more you can understand what happened. we think about 9/11 having an address, as being lower manhattan and the pentagon and shanksville, pennsylvania. but it's really changed the world we are in. >> some people think about the war on terrorism as a concept.

i have lived these places the last 10 years. there are new bases, new national security infrastructure that has been created. and since 9/11, u.s. foreign policy, domestic policy to a degree, has really been driven by fear. >> is it a disconnect between the understandable desire to prevent another 9/11, to keep us safe from something like that ever happening again? is it a disconnect from that desire to be safe and what would actually make us safe? did we outfit national security in a way that made us feel better but did not make us safer? >> al qaeda has been decimated, and a lot of the leaders including bin laden are dead. but are we safer as a nation? look at the money being spent. if you accumulate debt, debt is what brings down empires. not necessarily small cells of radicals. we have gotten very good at killing militants in places that are far away and finding their phone numbers and locating where they live and eliminating them.

we have gotten good at that. but are we safer as an american nation in our position in the world? >> well, it's a difference between safety and strength. >> well put. >> if you can be provoked into reacting in a way that prevents something like that from happening again, but that also causes you to spend yourself into weakness or to make yourself weak in other ways or to remove the things about you that made you a desirable and proud place in the first place. >> if you swing wildly at something and you have exhausted yourself, did they get you to compromise on your strategic strength in order to react to them? maybe you have. and then look at what the impact has had on the real people fighting this war. the military, for example. this has been a generation, a generation has come that has been defined by the wars in iraq, the wars in afghanistan. the men, the women, their families, these two wars have been all consuming. deployment after deployment. and that also has a toll.

since 9/11, more than 2 million american troops have been deployed to afghanistan and iraq. on the upside, america's armed forces have probably never been more combat ready and more experienced. but these were not training exercises. the costs have been heavy. nearly 6,500 troops killed. almost 10 times that many wounded. and were the thousands of patrols and gunfights necessary to keep america safe? what did they really accomplish? may 2010 in southern afghanistan. it's rich farmland. it's also a taliban stronghold. charlie company, second of the

508, lives on a tiny base called combat outpost nolan. the base is a walled adobe farmhouse. it's home to about 150 soldiers from the 82nd airborne division. they patrol the fields, but it's so dangerous the soldiers climb over mud walls because the main trails are seeded with ieds. >> make sure you get security to this intersection. >> sergeant lewis loft from akron, ohio, is often the point man on patrol. he volunteers for the highly risky job. because he's up front, if there's an ied in the ground, he'll most likely see it first. or step on it. >> i really don't think about it. it's just our job. you know, to get done what needs to get done. i try not to think about, you know, what's going to happen if i step on an ied or something. you know, or landmine or whatever. you know, you just don't really

think about it. >> loftus is a two-time combat veteran with a previous tour in afghanistan. he's only 23. >> all right. keep going. >> and the young man is in love with a girl back home named deidre. back on base, loftus looks at her photographs, waiting for the day they'll get married. but there are still many months to go before loftus is home, and many risks. one of his friends was just killed by an ied. the stress and pent-up emotion come pouring out. >> right now, i'm kind of numb to it, to be honest, i just don't really feel much. i pray for his family. i pray for his soul, you know, that -- yeah. i try not to think about it.

because when you think about it, then i get like this. and it's not -- you know, i don't -- yeah. so, yeah, you know, everyone deals with it in their own way. i try to hide it. i try not to think about it because i have to stay 100%. you know, i've got to keep a good example for the other soldiers. i'm sorry. >> the next day, loftus and the other troops walk to a memorial for the soldier killed by the ied, and pay their final respects. then they make a somber march back to base. as soon as they enter the gate,

the taliban attack. >> get me up there, get me up there! >> the ambush is timed to catch the troops off guard. soldiers rush to the roof of the outpost and fire back. from here, they have the best view. the best chance of keeping the taliban from storming the base. the taliban fire an rpg at a guard tower on the roof. >> this place is under heavy attack. already one soldier has been severely injured. >> the injured soldier is down, out of the fight. but other soldiers on the roof keep fighting, even though several of them are also injured and dazed. 20 taliban fighters are so close the troops have to launch small mortars nearly straight up, practically firing on top of themselves. ammunition is running low, and it's worse than anyone first thought. as the battle rages, the

soldiers find two more americans both severely wounded. under fire, the soldiers load the injured men onto stretchers and carry them off the roof. with so many men hurt, loftus moves in, and takes up a machine gun, and lays down suppressive fire. after 30 minutes, the fighting stops. a medevac helicopter carries away the wounded. the americans have won the day. but why? for nearly a decade, there have been fights like this one repeated in iraq's fallujah and sadr city. and countless other towns the soldiers had never heard of before they deployed. but they know them now, and the battles stay with the troops. coming up --

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in november, 2010, sergeant louis loftus is back home after figing in afghanistan for a year. he is moving in with the girl he loves, deidre. >> it's really dirty. it looks like it's been worn. >> unpacking his gear for the last time, loftus is getting out of the army. what? yeah. yeah, every one. i don't think these have been washed since i was over there. >> loftus is settling into his new life. >> good to see you. >> it's been a long time. >> he calls his service the

greatest accomplishment of his life. >> i loved being in afghanistan. that probably sounds funny, but, you know, it was such a good experience, and i fought for my country, and i'm proud of what i did. i'm proud of the guys i fought with and the people i met. and that is going to be part of me forever. >> but loftus has doubts about the mission. he was sent to protect people, but they wouldn't cooperate. >> the average 45-year-old male in the valley doesn't want to talk to us. doesn't want to look at us. some of us feel like it's just bait. we are just walking around until we get shot. it's like, really, what are we doing? if you asked me now if i could sign on a dotted line and get everyone out of afghanistan, i wouldn't hesitate. i would say it's not worth one more soldier getting killed. if you asked me right this second, sign this paper, we'll bring them all home, i would do it without hesitation. but i also feel that what i did wasn't a waste. i'm just saying that maybe it's time to get our guys home.

>> the white house says that afghanistan is no longer an al qaeda sanctuary, and that it has a plan to stabilize the afghan government and bring the troops home. but at least afghanistan was linked to 9/11. the taliban did host osama bin laden. invading iraq, on the other hand, had nothing to do with 9/11. despite claim after claim by the white house that it did. >> the liberation of iraq is a crucial advance in the campaign against terror. we have removed an ally of al qaeda. and cut off a source of terrorist funding. >> for some of those hunting bin laden, like the cia's hank crumpton, now retired, iraq remains a head snap. many at the cia never believed in the link between saddam hussein and 9/11. >> the majority of the people in the u.s. thought that iraq had

some responsibility for 9/11, which was not the case at all. in fact, if you look at saddam hussein, he was a secular despot. he was a tyrant. and he saw al qaeda not as an ally but as a threat. >> did you feel pressure to come up with intelligence that fit this narrative that iraq was somehow working with al qaeda? >> no. i do recall -- this was in the spring of 2001, a query that came from the white house, about the alliance between saddam hussein and al qaeda. and i remember at the time that that sounded so absurd. and i remembered speaking with an analyst about it, and dismissing it out of hand. >> when this memo came down, saying give us some intelligence or what do you know about this alliance between saddam and al qaeda, your response was basically, what alliance? >> exactly. >> nbc terrorism analyst mike sheehan has served as the state department's director of counterterrorism. >> i can think of a good dozen

reasons why saddam hussein should have been kicked out of iraq. dating back to all of the atrocities he conducted in the region against his own population. nevertheless, in my view, as a terrorism expert, i did not feel there was a justification in terms of counterterrorism to invade iraq. >> the united states sent 2 million troops to war, but in the end, osama bin laden was killed by 23 american commandos acting on intelligence provided by the cia. and bin laden was killed in pakistan, where troops were not sent in large numbers. 19 men attacked america on 9/11. 23 americans killed bin laden. but in between, more than 6,000 troops would die and well over $1 trillion spent. >> we have basically doubled our defense budget in the last 10 years because 19 al qaeda operatives with box cutters hijacked planes and attacked our homeland. i think we could have been much

more nuanced and specific and precise in our defense response, whether it's measures in budget or in lives. >> doubled our defense budget because 19 people with box cutters attacked us. >> right. >> so this was a major overreaction in your estimation? >> yeah. i think so, particularly if you look at iraq. >> when you add up everything that has happened, all the money that was spent, all the lives that were lost, and the things that were ignored, do you think the activities of the last 10 years have made the u.s. safer, a lot safer, a little bit safer? not safer at all? >> i think our homeland is safer. because of our efforts against al qaeda in particular. but i think that overall as a nation, we may be weaker. and that is because of a debt, in part because of money that we have spent in iraq and afghanistan. money that i don't think we need to spend. not to that degree. >> terrorism is an instrument of

the weak. terrorism is the instrument of a weak group, al qaeda. this is a very weak organization. but it uses terror to try to attack our psyche. and if we overreact to terrorism attacks, we empower them. we embolden them. we amplify their power, and fall into their strategy which is to create fear in our hearts. >> a strategy of turning america into a nation driven and perhaps misguided by fear. the united states hasn't been attacked again since 9/11, but at a huge and some argue unnecessary cost. in battles fought and lives lost. coming up -- after almost a decade of combat and billions of dollars spent on national security, are we safer? >> there has not been another attack on the united states. and that's not an accident. thanks to the venture card from capital one, we get double miles on every purchase,

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nationally, the investment that we have made in war

fighting since 9/11, the investment that we have made in the intelligence apparatus and the whole national security getting so much bigger than it was, that's money and investment that we made in that direction that we couldn't make in some other direction, that we didn't make in infrastructure, energy, education or health care, whatever you have. >> at the end of the day, bin laden and the top leaders from al qaeda were killed by institutions that existed before 9/11. they were killed by the cia, they were killed by the military, they were killed by military special operations. >> the argument, though, from those who have defended the massive expansion, particularly in intelligence and in top secret work, say, you know, you can complain all you want about it, but there hasn't been another 9/11, so that proves it was worth it. >> well, there hasn't been another 9/11, and that does prove that certain things work. but that doesn't prove that the whole apparatus works. and it doesn't prove that, well, you can just keep adding more and more security. and there's also a real danger here that it's hard to take it away. and i think that's why it

continues to grow. because any politician or anyone who says, well, we need to dial some of this back, suddenly is accused of being soft on terrorism. >> but what i think is poorly understood is how this huge investment in national security since 9/11 is going to change what decisions we make about the next decade, about what we're going to spend on in the future. and now we have all of these interest groups that are very powerful, very monied, very respected, that will have a big influence on the sorts of decisions that we make as a country. >> in the decade since 9/11, the closer we are to an election, the more likely you are to hear a politician assert that we haven't been hit again. >> there has not been another attack on the united states. and that's not an accident. >> it's a neutralizing rejoinder to any criticism of post-9/11 counterterrorism measures. or policy of any kind justified as counterterrorism. no matter what you think of what we've done, there hasn't been another 9/11.

it's true, there hasn't been. there's been nothing of that magnitude in 10 years. but the united states has been targeted in the past 10 years. over and over again. one week after the september 11 attacks, the anthrax mailings to senators' offices, media outlets, and some apparently random civilians, 17 people are infected, five die. three months after september 11th, the so-called shoe bomber, al qaeda member richard reid, a british citizen, tries to blow up a u.s.-bound flight from paris, using high explosives hidden in his shoes. fellow passengers and flight attendants stop him, and reid is sentenced to life in prison. overseas in 2006, scotland yard arrests 21 men planning to kill thousands by detonating bombs on up to 10 trans-atlantic flights from britain to the united states. >> this was intended to be mass murder on an unimaginable scale. >> back on u.s. soil, in 2009,

azazy is arrested by the fbi for a plot to carry out bombings in the new york city subway system. he received training in an al qaeda camp. he pleads guilty. later that year, on christmas day, an atefrt to detonate plastic explosives hidden in his underwear on a flight to detroit. he is currently awaiting trial. times square, the heart of new york city. in 2010, 30-year-old pakistani fiezal shea zad tries to detonate a bomb from his car. the bomb fails to explode, and he is apprehended days later. one attempt is successful. largest u.s. military facility

in the world, ft. hood in texas, the site of a mass shooting by major hasan. not formally linked to any terrorist troops, he killed 13 military personnel before he, himself, is shot and paralyzed by military police. but the most deadly post-9/11 bali, 202 killed. madrid, 491 people. russia, 334 people killed, including 186 children. london, july 2005, 52 people killed. mumbai, november 2008, 164 people killed. none of these major post-9/11 attacks was directly linked to al qaeda. that is if inspiration doesn't count as a link. but one alleged plot to carry out coordinated attacks in the uk, france, and germany, a plot thought to have been ordered by osama bin laden himself, is formed in september 2010. it's discovered through

international intelligence sharing. in the face of continued real threats, it's also true that some of the supposedly thwarted terrorist attacks post-9/11 essentially were symptoms created by the cure, plots that arguably would never have come into being without counterterrorism law enforcement themselves suggesting targets, providing means, facilitating aspiring terrorists acts of furtherance they could not have achieved on their own but for which they could be prosecuted. in 2009, after back-to-back mistrials, five men from liberty city, one of miami's poorest neighborhoods, are convicted on terrorist charges after trying to team up with al qaeda. even though they seemed to have no clue how to do that. their only contact with al qaeda is with the government informant pretending to be associated with the group. they claim entrapment. it's a defense that has never worked in a terror-related case since 9/11. later that same year, federal

officers again pose as members of a terrorist sleeper cell. they provide this 19-year-old from dallas, texas, with what he thinks are chemicals to build a bomb. he attempts to detonate the fake bomb in the basement of a dallas skyscraper. in 2010, he pled guilty. he is sentenced to 24 years in prison. as hyperfunded counterterrorism law enforcement reaches as far as possible and then some to find and disrupt and in some cases conjure terrorist plots, the newly created department of homeland security, a department consolidating 22 previous agencies representing the largest increase in the size of the federal government since world war ii, is a product of the 9/11 commission's findings. and as the federal government grows in response to 9/11, so does a government-funded security gravy train. getting yourself listed in the national asset database of terror targets becomes a way to

attract government funding. auditors of the national asset database find more than 1,300 casinos, more than 160 water parks, nearly 160 cruise ships, nearly 250 jails, more than 700 mortuaries, nearly 600 nursing homes. also listed as targets of terror, old mcdonald's petting zoo near huntsville, alabama. the mule day parade held in tennessee to celebrate mules. and the amish country popcorn factory in burn, indiana. in fact, the state of indiana listed nearly 9,000 potential terrorism targets. that's 50% more than the state of new york. more than twice as many as california. five years after 9/11, by the government's own very political figuring, the hoosier state is the most target rich state in the nation. if any rational sense of proportion in identifying terrorism targets had been

sacrificed to politics and simple greed, there may have been no hope from the beginning for a sense of proportion in identifying real potential terrorists and terrorist tactics. coming up -- america's collateral damage in our own war on terror. >> it was the darkest, most harrowing ordeal myself or my family ever had to experience. nothing helped me beat arthritis pain. until i tried this. it's salonpas. pain relief that works at the site of pain... up to 12 hours. salonpas. [ male announcer ] we went to germany's nurburgring to challenge ourselves on the most demanding track in the world. with us, in spirit, was every great car that we'd ever competed with. the bmw m5. and the mercedes-benz e63. for it was their amazing abilities that pushed us to refine, improve and, ultimately,

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the perpetrators of the 9/11 attacks. their travel history, radical ties, history, all red flags. the one that is had not signals enough to stop them before the attack. what would the next red flag look like and how would we find them? the last impact on daily life legacy of 9/11 for most americans is a new normal. a new normal of intrusion. the sacrifice of privacy and civil liberties and our diflties in history. the new megaagency the department of homeland provided over air travel safety, not the

air transportation. shoes off. jackets off. luggage lost, gone. liquids limited to tiny containers. laptops out of their bags. metal detectors like we used to have. puffer machines and body scans, detailed body scans. intrusions kept secret. despite federal laws to collect communication, in 2002, president bush plans to order expanding more ease dropping on u.s. citizens in the united states. it remains secret until t"the nw york times" exposes it. they ruled it unconstitutional by a judge. the government repeals and wins. bank accounts, credit cards,

library records subject to government inspections. the around the law extraordinary intrusion powers reserved for america's spies abroad, to the intelligence world are now put in the hands of law enforcement. the uniting and strengthening america by providing tools to intercept terrorism, known as the usa patriot act. the walls constructioned over the years. walls designed to protect american citizens from being spied on by our own government, designed to protect the presumption of innocence. walls that come tumbling down. when did you first have a sense that you and your family might have been subject to direct surveillance by the government? >> footprints on the floor that

were bigger than any shoe size we have. we can only surmise someone was in the house. >> they were leading a quiet life outside portland, oregon. may, 2004, after weeks of what was secret government search and surveillance, federal authorities come knocking on his door. >> i said if you have questions ask me. put them to me in writing. i could tell right away it wasn't going to make them go away. >> in march, 2004, a terrorist attack on trains in spain killed 191 people. spanish police found a fingerprint near the scene on a bag of detonators. they sent a photo copy to the fbi. they decided it matched brandon's. >> they started physically, forcibly making their way into my office. they proceeded to forcibly handcuff me. >> while you were taken into

custody at your office, were they also at your house? >> they had a search warrant at my house. my wife was home. they said i was a terrorist. >> you had been taken into custody. does your family know where you were? >> no. >> mayfield's legal team grows more concerned about his status. >> i was arrested under what was created to protect witnesses but the attorney general flipped it on its head and used it as a tool. to detain somebody without rights, without probable cause. >> you were never charged with anything? >> i was never charged at that point. >> do you speak spanish? >> no. my daughter does. at the time they were pouring through records in our house and documents, they found some of my daughter's spanish homework. >> to be clear, when they

confiscated spanish materials from your house, it was your daughter's homework? >> yes. >> as they prepare a defense, they learned what else was used to justify his arrest beyond that fingerprint. >> everything sited was a reason to arrest me. it had to do with my being a muslim or associated with a muslim. i attended a local mosque. being muslim meant you are a criminal. >> declaring innocence, he is incarcerated for two weeks on 24 hour lockdown and constant surveillance. federal agents claiming a match on a fingerprint. a federal judge ruled in favor of temporarily releasing

mayfield. >> false id happens in law enforcement. it always has. post-9/11 with power to the patriot act that the government took, did false id become a more dangerous thing? >> there's certain rights that were demanded by the people and guaranteed to us. one is the fourth amendment to privacy, which said you are to be free against unreasonable searches and seizures. no warrant. upon probable cause of the place, person to be seized, it is seriously under attack. >> prior to the patriot act, guidelines are spelled out by the act of 1978. it allows for secret surveillance to gather foreign intelligence. >> the patriot act amended that. there's a slight change. it says you could get the secret warrant to do a secret search.

have a significant purpose to gather foreign intelligence. it undermines you and hides americans rights. >> the case is dismissed ast su. federal authorities issue two formal apologies and he's awarded a monetary settlement. >> i grew up in kansas. a handshake and apology means something to me. >> you reflect on what the decade has been like, how do you describe the overall experience? >> it was the darkest experience myself or my family has to experience. to quote benjamin franklin, those who give up liberty loses it. >> coming up -- the business of

warning america. >> future terrorists, they come kill your kids. do you have an irregular heartbeat called atrial fibrillation, or afib, that's not caused by a heart valve problem? are you taking warfarin to reduce your risk of stroke caused by a clot? you should know about pradaxa. an important study showed that pradaxa 150mg reduced stroke risk 35% more than warfarin. and with pradaxa, there's no need for those regular blood tests. pradaxa is progress. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding, and seek immediate medical care for unexpected signs of bleeding like unusual bruising. pradaxa may increase your bleeding risk if you're 75 or older, have kidney problems or a bleeding condition, like stomach ulcers. or if you take aspirin products,

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the war on terrorism conceptually is a hard idea, because terrorism is a tactic. but as we know, it has translated into real war in iraq and afghanistan and in other countries around the globe. it has also translated into a sort of war footing, war mentality domestically, even in terms of law enforcement. >> it hasn't just stayed in iraq or afghanistan or pakistan. it has come back to the united states. the same idea of us versus them, that we're looking on patrol for terrorists, has come back to domestic american policing as well. and who's giving the training that police officers in the united states are receiving? there is an entire circuit of

experts hired with national security money who are being paid to train the police force, train the military and some of these people have ideas that are a little bit extreme. and some of them are -- they're popular within the police force. some of them have been accused of being anti-islamic. but they are very busy. >> anytime there is an open spigot of money, especially one that doesn't look like it's going to end anytime soon, people will make themselves available to be collectors of that money. and in the war on terrorism era, that has meant a whole market for experts in this field. >> in the cold war days, there were soviet experts. for the last 10 years, it's been terrorism experts. if you wanted to get money, you were a terrorism expert. it's mardi gras, march 2011, in mobile, alabama. 100,000 people line the avenues to see the floats and the parade. for the local police, it's a big event.

>> we have more going on today than we will any other day of the year. >> but even in small american cities, 9/11 has changed the way police operate, think, and who's training them. the cops know how to handle mardi gras. but they don't know much about terrorism. so the mobile police department is bringing in an expert from out of town to teach them. >> y'all listen to me. it's a mean old world. i don't have to tell you, you're cops. >> he is a retired army lieutenant colonel named dave grossman. >> what's your plan? >> a colorful speaker with high energy. >> like, whoa, what was that? >> theatrically tears his notes. >> you will read 100 military manuals. >> he wants to get his audience's attention for what he believes is the most important message in america today.

>> we can have all the warning in the world. >> 9/11 was just the beginning. >> folks, these are terrorists. they don't piss in your water. they come kill your kids. >> we turn to the tragic events of the past 24 hours in russia. >> one of grossman's main theorys is that al qaeda will carry out simultaneous attacks on american children. he says the horrific attack in russia in 2004 was a trial run for america. more than 300 hostages, many america. many children were killed when they took over the russia school. >> i pray i'm dark. not once but multiple times across america. cops will pull up behind a school bus. they walk on the school bus to find every kid dead. it will destroy our way of life. >> reporter: grossman says local police and all americans must be armed and ready for

commando-style battles when terrorists hit schools in small-town usa. >> absolutely serious. every cop car in america needs a smoker name. >> reporter: to be safer, grossman also wants schools to have armed guards, classroom doors locked and teachers armed to shoot terrorists. >> folks, we've had armed teachers in american schools over a decade. the state of utah has been doing it for over a decade. it is a county by county thing. the sheriffs are making the calls. one sheriff in utah brought me out to train his whole county. >> reporter: the police in mobile are captivated by grossman's talk. >> i've been in law enforcement 25 years so this is the best training i've had in 25 years of law enforcement. >> he's brought us back to the basics of always being aware that you never know when something's going to happen but you got to be prepared. >> just keep your mind open. >> reporter: grossman is one of america's most prolific speakers. 300 days of lectures a year. he's taught police in all 50 states. the coast guard, even the u.s.

forest service. grossman is not a fringe radical. his book "on killing" won critical acclaim in the 1990s for exploring the psychological effects of war. it's required reading by the u.s. marine corps. and he's invited to some of the military's most high-profile places. at ft. levinworth, kansas, in january 2011, grossman draws a crowd of about 1,000 officers at the army's command and general staff college. >> hey, afternoon, y'all. >> reporter: the army considers grossman, who once taught at west point, an expert in resilience. it's a buzzword in the military, which after a decade of war, is spending millions on counseling and suicide prevention programs. >> army's investing so much effort into building people physically for years, we haven't put the same amount of effort into building our soldiers

mentally and emotionally. >> reporter: but grossman thinks america's last decade of wars has made the military stronger. most of these officers served in iraq or afghanistan. he tells them the threat of post traumatic stress disorder is exaggerated by the media. >> we're calling everybody and their brother ptsd. when if you look carefully they say "symptoms" of ptsd. that's like saying somebody five pounds overweight has symptoms of obesity. yeah? >> reporter: grossman also talked to the officers' families in how they should be on the lookout for terrorists coming to their children's school while their spouses are deployed. >> it is entirely possible to kill 200, 300, 400 kids in four schools tomorrow morning, god forbid. >> it is important for me to know she knows the realities of what i do and the threats that are out there. >> it helps me to do my job better and to support him in what he days.

>> reporter: for grossman, this is a mission and a living. he's paid about $4,000 for his lectures and sells his books. but some of the officers at levinworth aren't convinced. >> he is definitely has an interest in selling books. >> he's got to own his kind of conflicting interest, it seems. he does wanter better us but he has a product he's selling. >> reporter: something police departments across america are willing to buy. atlantic city, new jersey. june 2011. in a conference room in one of the big casinos, these men didn't come to gamble. they're police officers who signed up for a two-day seminar with grossman on mental toughness and counterterrorism. >> i'm convinced from a lifetime of study the single-best thing to prepare for combat is hunt. >> reporter: the course is part of a continuing police education. it helps with promotions within

the department of. >> whether on duty or off duty, always be prepared. >> reporter: so you don't think it is scare tactics. >> no. no. you always have to be ready for the worst. >> reporter: some of the things he talks about, locking the school doors, armed guards at schools, that wasn't the kind of childhood that i had and it sure wasn't the kind of childhood you had. is that the kind of shildhood you think we should have for children? zblim neat saying whether we should or shouldn't have. the reality is it's here. times have changed. it is a new game we're playing now today. >> what exactly are you training people for? what are you training them to do? >> mental preparation for combat. >> since 9/11 there has been an industry that has been born of security consultants, of experts, of trainers, of lecturers, and you are part of that. >> what you're seeing is a nation that's preparing itself for the threat of possibilities. gun purchases across america just exploded.

concealed carry permits have taken over. >> and that is a good thing, you think? >> well, the voters think it is. >> reporter: grossman insists america's future depends on how each citizen prepares for the threat. do you ever worry that these local police officers are going to go out and be looking for terrorists in every small town? >> yeah. >> an pulling people over and looking them up and down and saying is this a terrorist? >> we're not seeing people's rights being trampled. we're not seeing individuals who are being abused. we must constantly be alert. life is all about balance. >> reporter: you fervently do not believe that are you a fear mongerer but do you say you want to teach people to use fear as a weapon? >> the gift of fear. to be aware of the potential for thre threat. take action to deal with that. that's the healthy path. >> reporter: oppose it or

embrace it, grossman's message is popular. he's expanding beyond schools, the military an police departments and is training major corporations to be on the lookout for terrorists. coming up friday on "day of destruction, decade of war --" >> was iraq a gift to al qaeda? >> yeah, of course. yeah. it was gift. >> reporter: and -- >> could torture have been avoided? >> it seemed like there rwas a real willingness do it and nobody said no. ♪ it's a new day

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an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement available only with liberty mutual auto insurance, if your car's totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy? hi, everybody. happy labor day. i'm thomas roberts. super soaker. tropical storm lee dumps more than a foot of rain on new orleans and now the remnants are creating problems all over the south. and the big debut. texas governor rick perry shooting to the top in the republican race for president. could his debate debut give him

some life against mitt romney. the penguin known as happy feet was released into the ocean making his way back to new zealand. or was he. hi everybody, again, it is great to have you with us. we get right to the weather situation with lee no longer a tropical depression but lumbering through the south still dumping heavy rain that could cause inland flash flooding. lee drenched new orleans with more than a foot of rain on sunday. forecasters say the storm is still packing heavy rainfall and it moves inland now to the appalachians. spin-off tornadoes appeared to touch down in mismis, alabama and in florida, so far no deaths to report. the weather channel's jim cantore has more from biloxi, mississippi. jim, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, thomas. i want to add, not much more. you pretty much wrapped up lee right there in that little intro to me. so good job, man. that pretty much covered it all, ladies and gentlemen. we've got obviously a tornado risk again here today along the

gulf coast which is rather strange. it may even be higher, believe it or not, than what we had over the last couple of days because there will be a little bit more sunshine. you can see behind me here a few breaks in the clouds. that will give us a little bit deeper instability and allow us to maybe tap the rotation that's going on in the low levels of the atmosphere. a little bit better. it's been the wave action, onshore flow. you see flags at some of the lifeguard stands blowing behind me pretty well here. that's keeping the chop up. there is a rip current risk. any plans of anybody trying to get in their labor day beach plans, if you will, here have pretty much been ruined not only just here in mississippi but also across alabama, orange beach, pensacola, destin, all these areas that are usually packed this time of year. but the heavy rain threat moving up to jackson this morning. they had about eight inches of rain just overnight last night. then also in to northern alabama, georgia and the southern appalachians. they're going to be fine we think for a good part of today but as we get into tonight and tomorrow and on into the midweek

period, if it is still raining in the upper appalachians, we'll talk about from pretty much going from drought to deluge and flooding. that's a big concern. one more thing -- the models are bringing a cold front through texas right now. that cold front will work its way all the way down into the gulf of mexico, that body of water right over there. the models are developing, n th new low pressure of that front and bringing it back up to the gulf next weekend. i might be right back up here or maybe even the florida panhandle to look at another threat coming in. it is peak hurricane seen. we get threats from all angles and it looks like this weekend may pose another one here in the gulf coast. back to you. >> jim, i swear, i didn't mean to steal your thunder with that intro, i promise. i didn't mean it toe it all way way. >> no, it was good. it was good. i have nothing to gripe about. >> but the spin-off tornadoes, that situation throughout the south, is that still something people need to worry about as this starts to dissipate more or is that something people can relax with on their holiday

today? >> no, they can't. they can't relax with that at all. because i think today we even had a greater risk of these tornadoes. granted, we're not going to have the big april 27th stuff that stays on the ground for hours and hours on end, but a tornado is a tornado. you're still talking about winds potentially over 100 miles an hour and damage we've seen a couple of dozen tornadoes already and that risk is elevated a little bit today, thomas. like i said, we will get a little more sunshine. instability and wind shear. those are the two key ingredients for tornadoes. we'll have both of them today across the deep south. >> jim cantore, great to see you. thanks. hurricane katia meantime maintained category 2 strength in the atlantic and could build to a major hurricane by tomorrow. the weather channel's todd santos has the latest for us on that one. >> good morning, thomas. again still tracking the tropics as jim mentioned pretty much getting into the peak of hurricane season at this point and that's a look at katia. last couple of hours we've seen the eye really clean up. again a re clear shot of the center of the storm. you see where bermuda is and where the bams are.

as far as the track of the system is concerned, the reason we are keeping a very close eye on it, the expectations is it could be potentially major hurricane by tomorrow, right now it is a category 2 with 100-mile-an-hour sustained winds moving off to the northwest at around 12 miles per hour. there is a look at where we expect this system to be thursday at 2:00 in the morning. at that point talking about a category 3 storm. then a trough off the northeast should help to turn this system fairly quickly farther on off to the coastline. at the moment not having at least landfall expectations though if you keep an eye on the track itself, if it did manage to kind of take the western edge of that forecast track, you would be dealing at least with the rainfall threat across portions of the mid-atlantic, even in through northern new jersey where we already have a lot of saturated ground. still keeping a close eye on it. the swell from that system should reach the carolina coastline even into tomorrow and start to build those wave heights to dangerous levels. be careful if you're headed to the beaches unless you are a very experienced surfer. looking at showers we're dealing with today across the northeast, some of these areas we'll look

at closer coming up, some flash flood watches out, still some potential issues there. again a lot going on on this day that most people are supposed to be taking a break. >> todd, thanks so much. this afternoon president obama will talk jobs and the economy and in a city desperate for the positive surge in both areas, the president traveling now to michigan. that's a state struggling with a an unemployment rate over the national average. the detroit metro area, unemployment there is nearing 16%. nbc's kristin welker is live at the white house this morning. >> reporter: good morning, thomas. it is certainty a tough backdrop for the president to be addressing thousands of union members in detroit. in addition to those statistics you just mentioned, a lot of union members feel as though this has been one of the toughest years that they've had in a long time. they feel as though they've been under attack from gop lawmakers who have been trying to scale back their union bargaining rights. we've seen this happen in wisconsin and ohio, and now in michigan. and they also have expressed

some displeasure with the president for some of his policies, including his decision to extend the bush era tax cuts. they feel as though the debt limit debate wasn't handled very well. they think it was too focused on cutting spending and not focused enough on stimulus. couple that with the dismal jobs report that we got nationally last friday where we saw that the economy added no net jobs. unemployment stuck at 9.1%. unemployment rate amongst african-americans -- 16.7% which is just staggering. so a lot of union members, you know is one of the president's key constituents. they're going to be watching the president's speech today very closely and also watching the president very closely on thursday when he unveils that grand jobs plan that a lot of people are waiting for. union members have been pushing him to go big on that plan. will he? we'll have to wait and see. also interesting to see if he gives us any glimpses of the plan when he takes the podium today. >> a lot of people probably

watching this for hints of what is to come on thursday. we'll all keep an eye on that. kristin welker at the white house, thanks. it is going to be another excruciating day in texas where crews are overwhelmed by wildfires. one of which turned deadly over the weekend. a mother and young daughter were killed sunday when a blaze engulfed their home. one officials says firefighters are completely out of resources. forecasters say flames are being fueled by strong winds whipped up by tropical storm lee. the future of the u.s. postal service is in doubt this morning with the agency on the edge of financial disaster. the post master general is calling on congress to help out with this warning the entire system may have to shut down for the winter. the agency has a $9 billion deficit and now officials are considering drastic measures, including the possibility of laying off 120,000 postal workers. libyan rebels are waiting for word from their leaders to enter one of the few remaining towns held by gadhafi forces.

a heavily armed group of gadhafi loyalists are held up in baniwalid. negotiations between both factions broke down over the weekend. thousands of rebels are at the checkpoints waiting for their orders. nbc's stephanie gosk is live in tripoli to bring us the very latest. stephanie, good morning. >> reporter: hey, thomas, good morning. we've made our way down the road from tripoli, we're outside bani walid. it is one of the contested of four strong holds that will could be battles for for week. this country has been basically at war for the last six months and the overwhelming sense that you get from rebel forces and from the negotiators trying to deal with people within bani walid is that they really don't want another bloody battle. but talks broke down last night. apparently there are no new negotiations going on. the chief negotiator came out and spoke to the press here at this checkpoint. he said that they need food,

water, medicine inside the city and that they are being basically -- the people there are being held captive by a group of 70 armed hard-core loyalists. he also said that the rebels are ready to go in and take that city. they are just waiting from the word from the interim council. thomas? >> stephanie, out of these strong ho strongholds, is there any one that may be the key, the link, to where gadhafi is hiding out? >> reporter: no, there really isn't. the head of the council in tripoli says the rebel council knows exactly where moammar gadhafi is, they're just waiting for the moment to go in and get him. i find that slightly suspect. they knew exactly where he was, i would imagine they probably would go in and get him. there was a theory earlier in the week that gadhafi and his sons were here in bani walid. but we're now told they have left the city. >> stephanie gosk outside of bani walid, thanks very much.

appreciate that report. back here at home, rick perry is making a texas-size splash in the republican race for president. we'll look at the debate coming up this week for him. plus, how to find a new job in this new economy. introducing the schwab mobile app. it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done. open an account today and put schwab mobile to work for you. when your eyes are smiling...

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welcome back, everybody. most of the gop presidential contenders will share the stage this afternoon in south carolina. senator jim demint is hosting a forum that will include rick perry, mitt romney and michele bachmann, among others. nbc's kelly o'donnell is live in columbia, south carolina where

they are all getting ready. kelly, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, thomas. what will make this so interesting is it is the first time we will see rick perry in the same event with mitt romney and that's certainly a key point in this sort of new phase of the campaign. now it is not a debate where they will all be interacting but they'll each be taking questions individually. we can still line up those answers and see how people respond here in this very important early voting state of south carolina. but one thing we know for sure, thomas, is that all of these republican candidates will be taking aim at the president's handling of the economy. >> we're here to help. >> reporter: with washington focused on his jobs speech later this week, the president made stops in new jersey sunday to see firsthand devastation and heartache left by hurricane irene. >> as president of the united states, i want to make it very clear that we are going to meet our federal obligations. >> reporter: mr. obama will unveil his much anticipated jobs plan in a televised address to congress thursday evening.

but already the republican message on jobs is making the claim that barack obama has not done enough to merit keeping his own. >> one in six work-eligible americans cannot find a job. mr. president, that is not a recovery, that is an economic disaster. >> reporter: michele bachmann said the president has failed to figure out how to make any lasting improvement in the economy. >> solutions, bob, have all been government focused and very temporary gimmick fixes. >> reporter: a big moment for mitt romney's campaign in new hampshire making his first direct appeal to the tea party at one of their events. >> we have zero confidence, zero faith in the president, who created zero jobs. it's time for someone who knows how to create jobs and get our economy going and that's something i know. >> reporter: with his private sector background, romney is seen as part of the gop establishment. not a natural fit for the tea party movement. in iowa saturday, a tea party

rally cheered on sarah palin who gave no new clues about her own interest in running and poked fun at polls. >> polls? they're for strippers and cross-country skiers. >> reporter: and she took on the president repeatedly. >> in his next speech he'll reveal his latest new super-duper jobs plan. it will have more lofty goals and flowery rhetoric, more illogical economic fantasies, and more continued blame and finger pointing. >> reporter: well, sarah palin will continue today on what looks like a campaign even though she's not in the race. she'll be in new hampshire making another tea party appearance but those candidates who have declared the top six republicans will be at this event and thomas, you mentioned jim demint. he sort of put this together and he is such a crucial voice, the senator from south carolina is big with the tea party movement and the kinds of questions he will ask and his reaction could

be pretty influential here. >> we'll all be watching. kelly o'donnell in columbia, south carolina, thanks so much. so rick perry getting ready to make his big debut on the national stage. september 7th he'll make his debut at the nbc news political debate. >> we got to stop spending money we don't have. we got to get our fiscal house in order, restore our good credit. >> senior executive editor of "texas monthly," joins us now. paul, perry is known because he is a really great campaigner, good when giving a stump speech. but when it comes time to hit that stage for this national debate, is this going to be a game changer for him especially coming to the national audience? >> i think governor perry comes to this with a reasonable a of confidence because he's the front-runner. he knows he's going to get hit. he knows he's going to be the

focus of a lot of the questions. so there is a lot of pressure on him and he has had some difficulty in some debates in texas, the 2010 republican primary debate most notably. but perry can deliver a line and he's a disciplined guy and i think that he can bare thear th front-runner burden pretty well. >> here's what mitt romney had to say yesterday. >> of the people running for office, you know, i don't know that there are many who have less years in politics than me. >> so there's something deliberately shot out there across the ballot. you think that is something that is going to keep coming -- the hits to perry, that is -- as opposed to romney just continuing to talk about why he is the best potential choice? >> well, i think romney will

keep pushing that but i also think a lot will have to do with the questions that are asked and how perry handles them. there have been so many issues that have arisen out of his book, fed up, and some of the statements he's made in there that i think that will be more of a focus than sniping between the candidates. >> as you point out, that book "fed up" came out earlier this year. so for a person that knew that they were potentially going to be making a run for president, don't you think that really puts the fodder out there for all of the people that are vying to put a target on his back in gives him a pretty easy shot to do so because of the things he said, especially when it comes to social security. >> well, that's true and he sort of put the target on his own back in doing this except, of course, when he wrote the book. he was not anywhere near making a decision about the presidency. but those things are there. he owns them. and so he's going to have to be

ready for those questions from now, you know, to the end. >> absolutely. they're going to make him own them, probably today at that forum as well. coming up is the debate this week. paul, nice to see you this morning, thank you. as we mentioned -- rick perry makes his debu in the republican presidential debate at 8:00 p.m. september 7th. watch it right here on msnbc live. the muscular dystrophy association's annual labor day telethon posted its best numbers since the recession even without long-time host jerry lewis. the 85-year-old comedian who stepped down abruptly this year was a no-show despite certain predictions he would make a surprise appearance. lewis raised $2.5 billion according to the mda in almost half a century hosting that telethon. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined.

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president obama delivers his much anticipated address on how to create jobs this thursday and it comes after a dismal august report that saw zero net jobs created. department of labor secretary hilda solis said this morning on the "today" show the president's new proposals will put millions of people back to work. >> the things that he's talking about are some things that have been supported in the past by republicans and democrats, infrastructure investment, helping to provide assistance to those dislocated workers, people who are out of work, who have been out of work for more than six months or longer. and also providing tax breaks for middle class people, payroll tax and for businesses. >> jason lovelace is the area vice president of careerbuilder.com and joins me now to talk more about this. jason, good morning. what kinds of things would you like to see coming out of washington and what do you think is really the kick-start that's going to get people hired? >> well, i think the first thing is any time washington is talking about jobs, that's a big deal.

right? it will be interesting to see what type of incentives and programs the president lays out for the country. but overall when you look at the job market, albeit the unemployment rate is 9.1%, still people with four-year degrees or five-plus years of experience, the unemployment rate is 4.3%. so that's interesting. >> let's look at these august numbers. the sectors that added jobs were health care, and professional and business services. why are those areas, in your estimation, doing better than other areas? >> well, we constantly look at the labor pressure. take health care, for instance. obviously many people say that health care is recession-proof. even more so now with 70 million americans coming up to the age of 65 and entering medicare. there's going to be a ton of opportunity. not only for clinical positions, but also for the operations positions within health care. >> when we look at the ethnic breakdown, unemployment among african-americans increased to 16.7%, over 11% among hispanics.

what needs to happen to bring those numbers down specifically to those minority groups? >> i think not only with the diverse candidates but just with candidates in general, individuals need to look at reskilling or reeducating. so the point i made earlier, there are opportunities that do exist. it is just re-skilling an having an open mind to say, i might have to change my skillset to find an opportunity. >> jason lovelace with careerbuilder.com, thanks for your time this morning. katia is now a category 2 storm, but it is expected to become a major hurricane by tomorrow. we'll tell you where that storm is headed next. plus, just when you buy all those new electronics, a better model comes out. yeah. so when is the best time to buy? maybe right now. we'll explain. i don't want healthy skin for a day.

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welcome back. this morning we are tracking the

remnants of lee as it soaks the southeast, also threatening some flash flooding with it. todd santos has the latest. >> flash flooding will be a major concern across portions of mississippi right now. we have flash flood watches that extend well up the appalachians, even through d.c. and some major mid-atlantic cities. notice the tornado watch box until 4:00 pl central. we have a tornado threat across good portion of alabama, panhandle of florida, southwest georgia, even eastern mississippi. as we get into tomorrow again we'll see the flood threat spreading farther east and northeast. notice again all those areas in the lighter green shading that go all the way up to central and eastern pennsylvania, up into portions of the northeast, those are the flash flood watches, potential areas where it would not take very much rainfall to cause some flooding. big-time flooding issues particularly across the southeast right now. there's hurricane katia, 100-mile-per-hour category 2

storm. we are expecting it to turn into a major hurricane tomorrow and bend away from the coastline but still a lot to be determined as far as the track of that system. we'll keep a close eye on it. close guard helicopters are searching for a teen swept away by storm-churned waters off of alabama. meanwhile, residents in mississippi and throughout the southeast are bracing for the potential of more flooding. >> four to six inches in the house last time so we thought we need to put it at back doors this time. >> the weather channel's mike seidel has more now from brandon, mississippi for us. mike, good morning. >> reporter: good morning, thomas. has been a very wet night here in central mississippi. what's left of lee has dumped as much as a foot of rain and since last night we've had almost eight inches, six inches in six hours will cause flooding. we've had reports this morning of numerous water rescues in metro jackson. one apartment complex was evacuated and water in florence, mississippi coming in to homes. that's what happens when you have that much rain. now it is backing off.

the bulk of the rain has moved off to the north and east towards columbus, over towards starkville and okay ford. this is all heading east toward birmingham and atlanta and flash flood watches are posted all the way up the eastern seaboard through the spine of the appalachians because this weather front will pick this moisture up and spread it north. it is also putting the movement on what's left of lee. remember over the weekend it was just sitting along the gulf coast. now it's got some forward motion and that's a good thing. this is the ross barnett reservoir, thomas. this is not the gulf of mexico. but look at the wave action out here caused by these winds blowing across the reservoir. these winds sustained now at 20 to 25 miles per hour with gusts up to about 35. one thing that's changed is the fact that the wind field has begun to weaken with what's left of the lee. no longer even a tropical depression. however the tornado threat is higher today than it has been the past couple of days and we'll keep a close eye on parts of the gulf coast an southeast for the threat of tornadoes through this afternoon and this evening. the latest tornado watch out

from the storm prediction center is up until 4:00 this afternoon. in the meantime here, the rain backs off, and the sun comes out later today, if not later today, certainly for the beginning of the work and school week. back to you. >> mike seidel in brandon, mississippi, thanks. here's a look at some other stories making headlines right now. rescue workers are scouring central japan looking for typhoon survivors. at least 26 people were killed when this storm hit. 52 are missing and thousands are stranded. a small plane crashed, burst into flames, then ignited a fire near bakersfield, california. two people were killed. at least 100 homes had to be evacuated because of the fire. a plane skidded off the runway in ottawa. all passengers and crew members were fine but the plane sustain a lot of damage. a record number of visitors are expected to visit buckingham palace this year. numbers are up because kate middleton's wedding dress is there on display. so it is a tough question for today's consumer -- buy your

new gadgets now or wait until a more advanced model hits the stores. the average consumer spends months just researching the new smartphone or a computer that they want. but when it's time to buy, will the product that was shiny and new already be a relic? we get some advice from technology guru daniel seaburg. daniel, as i did the research and heard the phrase "analysis paralysis," this is a real term. it is a process by which consumers are too overwhelmed with choices to move forward and it is a problem when it comes to technology. meanwhile, we could have group therapy for the fact that we could probably put this into other areas of our life. >> right. i've written a book called "the digital indidiet." do your homework, because there are a lot of deals to be had especially in light of labor day. why is that? there are a few reasons why. they want to manufacture out summer inventory in preparation for what's coming for the holiday season but also football

is days away so televisions are being discounted in a big way right now. >> that's good to know. for people to find the best deals out there, how much -- if they are thinking about this, how much are you losing out if you buy one model that may just be a step behind or not as new as the next one that's going to be coming out and you know it is going to be coming out months from now. >> there is always going to be a little bit of buyer's remorse because deals come along. the product cycles for tech products these days is shorter and shorter. it used to be you could have something for years an feel comfortable with it. now worry a talking months, weeks even in some cases. you are going to be a little bit worriedfy buy this one now -- just think about why you need it. if you have needed a television for years, maybe now is the time to buy one. >> a lot of places that put out these technology products that we become so dependent on, they have all of these things thought about how they're going to put

out the next -- you know what. >> why can't they just give it to us up front? these days technology changes so quickly. >> ss to mean! >> it is mean. darn them! of course these companies want to make money. you have to think about as a consumer, where does this fit into my life? do i need a home theater? of course this could be a debate between spouses and there's always that sport of discussior going on in a family but there are discounts out there these days. i've seen televisions discounted for hundreds of dollars which is a really big savings or say a 50 or 60-inch tv. >> and for some people it is a real status symbol. >> oh, absolutely. and some people it is better to wait. say with the iphone 5 coming out later this month or in october, if you are thinking about an iphone 4, maybe it is better to wait because that model is definitely coming out later. we know product cycles happen at a certain time. they're not all a big mystery but if you look around, you can find some good stuff out there. i've done a lot of my research right here. >> daniel seaburg, nice to see

you. how the economy is changing relationships just to pay the bills at home. plus a happy ending for the penguin known around the world as happy feet. we'll tell you his story. ♪ happy trails to you ♪ until we meet again [ man ] behind every business is a "what if." what if we designed an electric motorcycle? what if we turned trash into surfboards? whatever your what if is, the new sprint biz 360 has custom solutions to make it happen, including mobile payment processing, instant hot spots, and powerful devices like the motorola photon 4g. so let's all keep asking the big what ifs. sprint business specialists can help you find the answers. sprint. america's favorite 4g network. trouble hearing on the phone? visit sprintrelay.com. can help you find the answers. a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work.

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as we've been talking about this morning, lee is drenching the southeast today with flash flood warnings extending through mississippi and alabama. meanwhile, the storm dumped over a foot of rain in new orleans. joining me on the phone, the mayor of lafitte, louisiana. tell us what type of damage you have seen from lee. >> well, irene didn't hurt us that much. we're outside the levee system

thanks to the corp of engineers. we experienced a lot of tidal surge and a good bit of the community around me and half of my community is flooded. but we were able to sandbag and save the schools in the area and a lot of homes but a lot of people were hurt. >> as you talk about that preparedness, the storm dropped close to 14 inches of rain in parts of new orleans. so for your area specifically, how did you prepare your people, especially coming up on this holiday weekend? >> well, what we told them, just be cautious and listen to the news and we were going to try to get them out of harm's way. but in the meantime we were working very hard to place portable pumps, along with the stationary pumps that we have. and we put in about 100,000

sandbags delivered and installed them and we started putting up rock levees and also some tiger dams. so as we were trying to inform the people and giving them time to evacuate, we were trying to do a prevention fight. >> mayor, for those people that did have to evacuate the low-lying areas of lafitte, when are they going to be able to return especially for those about to start the new school year or may have already started the new school year? >> well, yeah. you know, i would say tomorrow. there's a nor wester coming in now. a lot of the water will be pushed out. where we do have levee systems we were able to sandbag and keep the water out. so wasn't like most cases where we had the levee system over the tops of the levees and it is

like a soup bowl, water stays in. we don't have that this time. we were able to keep the water out of the area and areas without levees, this north wind will blow it out. i think tomorrow morning or the next morning we'll give the okay for people to start coming back in. >> mayor kerner, thank you. have a good weekend. one american couple trying to make the best of these tough economic times has made it work and they've done so for seven years and over 1,000 miles apart. >> reporter: in palm bay, florida, sharon is juggling her own business and four boys between the ages of 8 and 16. >> they have four different personalities, four different sets of things going on -- swimming, band, soccer. it has been difficult.

>> reporter: making things even more difficult, for the last several years, her husband benny has difd 1,200 miles away in new york city. benny told us he can't leave his job as a mechanic for united airlines in these tough economic times. >> no jobs in florida. >> yep. i have to work because i have to support my family. there's no way that i can let my family starve just because i want to be there. >> reporter: according to the census, 3.4 million married couples in the u.s. live apart. that's a 26% increase in 12 years. technology's making life a little easier for these recession-separated families with e-mail, texting and video conferencing, bridging the gap. >> i miss you guys. can't wait to see you. >> reporter: in the nbc show "parenthood," a father stays in touch with his 5-year-old boy via video chat. benny uses the same system to chat with his boys. >> i don't hear any answers there. >> reporter: and to set discipline rules. >> you're able to see him, see his expressions.

though know if he is angry or not. >> reporter: margaret in miami lives 1,200 miles apart from her son. health care manager and teenage son decided to stay behind when her husband got a better answer theelologist job at a denver hospital. >> i don't want to give up my career. >> reporter: margaret flies at least twice a month to see don. >> hi, don. >> it's quality time, it can be very intense. it can be very romantic and it could be very exciting. >> it's like a date almost. >> what would you recommend to couples going through similar circumstances? >> don't ever let a day go by where you're not in touch at least five or ten times or in our case, 20 times. >> reporter: two long distance couples determined to keep the recession from pulling them further apart. >> i love you. >> bye, daddy! i love you! >> i miss you.

well, labor day is all about picnics and parades especially for the republican presidential candidates. where things stand ahead of wednesday's big debate. we'll explore that for you. plus, schools back in session. if not, it's going to be soon. so why it could be a good time for parents to plan a get-away. coffee doesn't have vitamins... unless you want it to. new splenda® essentials™ no calorie sweetener with b vitamins, the first and only one to help support a healthy metabolism. three smart new ways to sweeten. same great taste. new splenda® essentials™.

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just when the kids head back to school, it is really a great time for the adults of the household to plan an affordable vacation. the senior editor at orbitz is going to take us through some of the great deals that are out there if you are planning a fall vacation. jeannine, it is nice to see you this morning. first, talk about the caribbean islands. you say there are some great deals to be had for the bahamas and the u.s. virgin islands. i know the u.s. virgin islands are gorgeous. >> yeah, there are. and this is on top of the fact that summer is actually

off-season for the caribbean. i found a couple destinations where you'll find even better deals as we go into the fall. the first one is the bahamas where october is really the month -- i'm sorry, september is really the month where you'll save there with average hotel rates 12% less than they were in the summer. in september that's coming in around $207 a night on average for a hotel stay. package deals are great, too, just to give you an example -- from new york to nassau, i found airfare plus five-night package, staying at the four-star sheridan beach resort, from just $669 per person on orbitz. so again that includes your airfare plus five nights and that's in early october. the second destination -- >> yeah, go ahead. >> i was just going to say, the second destination where i really found spectacular deals in the fall was to the u.s. virgin islands. here october is really going to be your best bet to get big savings. the summer average hotel rates were $188 a night. in october, they're actually 27% less coming in at just $137 a

night on average. the package deal i found here was atlanta to st. john, a beautiful destination, airfare plus five nights staying at the westin resort from $765 per person. >> not too bad. i like that. so let's go on next for those people that want to go from the beaches to the mountains because you found some great deals for rocky mountain ski towns. >> i did. fall really is the off-season for the mountain towns, places like breckenridge, vail and aspen. you can just great deals on even things like restaurants that do two-for-one deals in those off months in the small. to breckenridge, the summer, average hotels were $117. in october they're 34% less, an average of $77 a night the deal here i found was chicago to breckenridge, airfare plus five nights at the at the four-star village resort at the base of the mountain, from $574 per

person for the package. >> now we'll travel west. a little further west, to hawaii. which is great. >> yes. hawaii is a great time to travel there in the fall. again a lot of the big family vacations were in the summer so there will be less crowds. still beautiful weather. i looked at san francisco for hawaii for those west coast travelers, airfare plus five nights staying at the turtle resort, a beautiful four-star property, $999 per person. a lot of times you'll pay nearly that much just for the airfare. booking the package is definitely the way to go here. >> a few east coach beach towns, those some are drenches right now, you say there are deals to be had in hilton head. >> there are. really all the way from charleston, south carolina up to mart martha's vineyard, you'll find great fall deals. the temperatures are dropping so you don't have people necessarily heading there to sun themselves on the beaches. to give you an example, hilton head, a summer average hotel

rates were $141 a night. in october, they're 30% less at just $99 a night. again a great package deal to give you an example. washington, d.c. to hilton head, airfare plus five nights at the marriott resort and spa -- $727 per person. >> that's really affordable. especially for five nights. that's a really good deal. jeannine, thanks so much. we appreciate these good tips. a young emperor penguin who captured the world's attention when he washed up very far from home is now back on his way to antarctica. scientists in new zealand released the real-life happy feet yesterday after months of nursing him back to health. nbc's annabel roberts has the story of his epic journey. >> reporter: on a beach in new zealand in june, happy feet was nearly 2,000 miles from home and in unfamiliarly warm surroundings. scientists rescued him and found he needed a lot of help.

they discovered his stomach as full of sand, probably mistaking it for snowy he swallows back home to keep hydrated. once his digestive system had been cleaned, he was treated to a diet of delicacies at wellington zoo. a webcam installed in his ice-packed room meant fans could swal his progress. his keepers squirting him with water, his flapping flippers winning him a global following. he was fitted with a tracker attached to his feathers with glue. yes, he has a website with a map that will show his progress. with over a quarter of a million followers and a twitter account, too. there is, of course, another famous happy feet. just like the animated character of the real penguin has survived an ordeal. and today, at least, it was time for him to take the plunge and head for home. he has thousands of miles to swim and lingered for farewells and a flap his flippers before

receiving a discrete shove down the slide, and then he was off with hardly a backward glance. in the is journey ahead of him from the ocean of new zealand to the waters of the antiarctic feeding grounds. >> i'm going to be telling your story, happy feet, long after you dead and gone! >> reporter: just as the true story of this happy feet has also touched the hearts of millions. annabel roberts, nbc news, london. >> a good story there. the ending, that is. the penguin's tracker last showed him though swerving back towards new zealand but not to worry because scientists say that the birds tend to zigzag when they're feeding. we will keep you posted on what's going on with happy feet's return to antarctica. i'm thomas roberts. i'm going to be back with you at the top of the hour so stay tuned because we're keeping our eyes on the remnants of the tropical storm named lee right now. that storm dumped at least a foot of rain on new orleans. how the levees held up. we'll look at that and also where the storm is headed next. plus, back in court.

amanda knox's appeals case resumes in italy today. how the dna evidence stacks up. it is what attorneys are focusing very keenly on right now. [ ben harper's "amen omen" playing ] we believe doing the right thing never goes unnoticed. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy?

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