what do they know about that tragic day? and how will they learn about it as they grow up? hi, everybody, hope you had a great holiday weekend. welcome to msnbc. i'm thomas roberts. president obama is staring down some of the toughest poll numbers he's seen during his time in the oval office. just two days before a major prime-time speech on jobs and the economy. his disapproval rating has passed the 50% mark. the 44% approval rating is a new low for the president. the biggest issue the economy. the figures look even worse. nearly six in ten americans disapprove of the president's job there. cnbc's chief washington correspondent john harwood joins me now. not a lot to smile about for the obama administration. but if they were looking for silver linings in these numbers, where would they find them? >> the only silver lining, thomas, in the numbers is that 70% of americans stay they still like president obama, even if they disagree with him. and on the long-term fight over deficit reduction, when you ask

voters, should it be done with spending cuts alone in programs like medicare, or should there be tax increases as part of a solution, the president called for a balanced approach with tax increases. so do a majority of the american people. but that's not helping him right now on his approval rating, which is the lowest ever that we've seen in our nbc/"wall street journal" poll. and even on the specifics about job creation, you know, the president, thomas, is going to go before the congress and call for a couple hundred billion dollars worth of new stimulus, but when we asked people in this poll, should washington focus on boosting the economy now, even if it drives up the deficit in the short-term, or should they concentrate on holding the deficit down, a majority said the latter, hold the deficit down, that's the republican message. the president's going right into the teeth of that message on thursday night. >> john, let's talk about the gop. because right now the polls are tallying there, as well. perry really starting to create some space, some division among himself and the others. >> rick perry has zoomed right past mitt romney to a double

digit lead in the republican race. he runs reasonably competitively although he's down a few points against president obama. but that's a very good poll result for rick perry when you look at how quickly he has overtaken mitt romney. it raises the stakes for that nbc politico debate that i'll be out for in california and our colleagues will be out for at the reagan library in simi valley. this is where other republicans are going to test rick perry for the first time on the same stage, assuming he doesn't cancel because of those wildfires in texas. >> as we see those head-to-head match-ups, though, where does the president fare if it's against a romney or perry ticket? >> he's running neck and neck with mitt romney. he leads outside the margin of error over rick perry. but against a generic republican, when you just ask people, do you intend to vote for president obama, or the republican candidate for president, the republican candidate is winning right now. that doesn't mean the president is likely to lose re-election. he still has considerable assets

behind him, and he's got the possibility the economy is in better shape. but right now, the toll taken on public opinion, on consumer confidence by that debt limit fight over the summer is looking very daunting for the president. >> we'll see what happens after thursday night. john harwood, thank you, sir. appreciate it. so the pressure is on the president to really present a jobs plan on thursday that's going to gain some traction with congress, as well as the american people. and he struck a pretty positive tone at a labor day speech in detroit the other day. take a listen. >> there is work to be done, and there are workers waiting to do it. labor is on board. business is on board. we just need congress to get on board. let's put america back to work. >> nbc's kristen welker is live for us at the white house. kristen, this is kind of like the precursor to the big event coming up on thursday night, and the big question right now, what are we actually going to hear from the president? and did yesterday's talk give any hints of what we're going to see from the administration? >> well, we got a little glimpse of what we might see yesterday,

thomas. president obama told those workers he was speaking to in detroit that his plan will include investing in infrastructure projects, which he believes could put about a million construction workers back to work. he also said it will include extending the payroll tax cuts. so really just a little glimpse. we know from talking to our was sos here that the white house is also considering investing in green energy projects, providing tax breaks for companies who hire new workers and ideas like that. so there really is a lot riding on this speech, and on this plan, thomas, as you mention. one of the big challenges will be, of course, to actually get it through congress. i spoke with white house officials about whether this plan will be big and bold or more reserved. and they say, look, the president wants a bold and aggressive plan. but he also has to be realistic. it has to get through a republican-led house. if you see a lot of pushback from congress, what you might then see is the president take this plan to the people. in other words, make it a

central part of this platform in 2012. thomas? >> kristen, are we getting a pullback from the administration about tempering expectations of what we're going to hear? >> they have been. you know, there's been a big rollout, a joint speech before a joint session of congress. so certainly, the expectations were heightened going in to this week. white house officials are saying, look, this plan has to be realistic, has to get through congress. that's what least the goal, initially. so they are trying to tamp down expectations. that this speech will be mass e massive. having said that, they do say the president wants to be aggressive. thomas? >> kristen welker at the white house for us this morning. kristen, thanks so much. we want to shift our attention to the markets. they're off to a rough start this morning. take a peek for yourself as we look across the board. and the dow jones, slipping almost 261 points right now. and under that psychological mark, hovering under 11,000 for an average. "washington post" financial

reporter neil irwin joins me now. now we this drop on the european markets yesterday. ours being closed for the holiday. when are we going to see an end to this wild market movement? is there any way to put a predictor on that? >> unfortunately not something we can control in the united states. we'll see an end to the wild swings when europeans get their act together. when there's a sense european governments are finding a way to resolve their debt crises that doesn't result in some catastrophic decline in european markets. the truth is the news out of the u.s. was pretty good. we got a good report on the tourist industry, that it was accelerating in august. that wasn't enough to counteract the downdraft from the crisis in europe. >> europeans are probably waiting to see if americans can get their act together. when we talk about what the president is going to say on thursday night, do you think that president obama can play the role of ben bernanke, has in so many times, as we come to the end of q-3 coming up at the end of this month and see any type of impact on the markets with this shortened holiday week, but

friday being a big day? >> the truth is, that the president is entering a very polarized political moment and will only be able to move on the markets if there's a sense that the response from republicans is constructive, and willing to try to make some of these policies happen. if the tone out of the other side is that, no, we're really not interested in doing any policy, we're going to sit on our hands through election day next year, then that's not a kind of effect. it becomes more of this political battle like we saw at the end of july over the debt ceiling which had a really negative effect on markets and confidence. >> and, you know, in the administration's defense they say that the president really can't create these jobs. so how is he supposed to instill confidence that the american economy needs? >> you know, he doesn't have a lot of tools left. the truth is he's going to propose a few things, even if enacted. it's not clear that any of these ideas being floated are real game changers in terms of job growth. what the government can do is say, look, we have a long-term plan on the deficit. we have a short-term plan to try and support growth.

the federal reserve can take some moderate actions. hopefully that is enough to instill confidence that we are on a decent path, and then there's a cycle of the private sector expanding, people having higher incomes. >> neil irwin. great to see you this morning. >> thanks, tom. >> want to take everyone to texas where nearly 600 homes across central texas lay in ruin as the state's single-worst wildfire in history rages on. in bastrop, texas, the fires have scorched at least 30,000 acres of land and left thousands of evacuees living in shelters. officials say the flames are, quote, nowhere near contained. >> we're a long way from having these under control. the most important message here for people is when the evacuation order comes, take it seriously. get out of the way of these fires. >> nbc's jay gray joins us now live from texas with the very latest there. so jay, bring us up to speed. where do we stand today? >> well, thomas, unfortunately, and as hard as it is to believe, things actually taking a turn for the worst here through the night and into the day today.

those numbers you talked about, almost 600 homes burned, more than 30,000 acres. they're only expected to grow. several people, especially here in the bastrop area, where the worst of the fires seems to be burning right now, are dealing with the loss of everything that they had had before the fire. let's take a listen to one lady who got the news yesterday afternoon. >> we just found out that our house has been destroyed. right now i'm sitting and praying, because i don't know right now. >> and there are so many people right now who don't know. just don't know what's happened to their homes. don't know what they're going to find when the smoke clears and when they get back. the bad news is, as you talked about, no containment in this fire, and several more burning across texas right now. and it may take some time. the wind has dropped today, if there's any good news, it's that. but understand the forecast says it's going to pick up again in the next couple of days, making it much tougher to get a line on these fires and start to prove them back. crews are working around the

clock from the ground and on the air but they fully admit they don't have control of the flames right now. it's going to be several days before they have any kind of handle. it's going to be a tough go for quite some time. >> governor rick perry left south carolina yesterday to come back oversee. he was there for a tea party event but came back to oversee what's happening there within the state of texas. how critical is what he is doing in terms of oversight to what needs to be done there? >> well, he's back on the ground here today. he spoke this morning and then he's back taking a tour, as we speak right now, through some of the most devastated areas. he feels like he needs to be here. he said this is his job and his most important job right now, putting politics aside. he feels like he needs to direct the crews and help oversee some of what's going on. what that means for the debates, nobody knows. we pressed him on it a bit, thomas. what he said was now is not the time to talk about that, that he's focused on the fires. but we expect we should find something out in the next, well at least the next day or so as

to whether he is going to be there. >> nbc's jay gray in texas for us. jay, thanks so much. the congressional super committee, it is supposed to make serious cuts to save americans money. but is it headed for the usual d.c. gridlock? we're going to ask one of those committee members. and super cuts part two? will the post office be forced to shut down? how would all of us react if that happened? are the basis of . [ grandma ] relationships are life... if you don't have that thing that fills your heart and your soul, you're missing that part of your life that just fulfills you. ♪ [ male announcer ] for us at humana, relationships matter too. the better we know you, the better we can help you choose the right medicare plan. that's why humana agents sit down with you to figure out your medicare options. and we have nurses you can call anytime, even at 3 a.m.

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welcome back, everybody. tomorrow night republican white house hopefuls will go toe to toe at the nbc news politico debate. ahead of that showdown, a new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows a two-horse race emerging with rick perry and mitt romney well ahead of the rest of the pack. take a look for yourself. now after weeks of veiled and, at times, outright shots between

the two front-runners, this will be the first time perry and romney share a stage. joining me now is political white house reporter kerry brown to talk more about this. >> good morning. >> while perry and romney are way ahead of the rest, perry is up by some 15 points. is this still the bump of the shiny, new candidate? or is this something else where ee is emerging and really pulling away? >> i think it's certainly the former about him being the new candidate on the scene. we have a politico george washington poll out today shows him like your poll does, 36% to romney's 17%. i think in these first three weeks of this campaign he certainly is appealing to republican primary voters. the next test, of course, is tomorrow night at the debate. he has a target on his back going in there. not just because he's ahead in the polls by so far, but it's his first national presidential debate. and everybody's looking to see how he performs and whether he can sustain those pretty substantial leads right now. >> carrie, interesting to point

out, though, that perry left south carolina for the tea party forum event that he was going to be at yesterday to go back to his state because of the wildfire situation that he could oversee that and help with the disaster that's going on there. do you think there's the possibility he may not come? i mean, he's ahead, as you say, it is his first time on the national stage with everybody else. but, does he have a lot to wager by coming and being the person with the target on his back? he could stay in texas and not have to worry about that. >> he raised the possibility this morning on cbs. he was asked if he would potentially skip the debate tomorrow night and he said that it is a possibility. he did not definitively say he would be there. which may not be that surprising. his home state disaster to deal with. you can see him making that decision. but also just politically like you said, it could benefit again to extend out that sort of rose garden strategy, just stepping back, letting the others go after each other. but he obviously can't do that

forever. there are another two debates after tomorrow night. he's going to have to show up and at some point it could work against him if he's not confronting his challengers, and speaking to republican primary voters who want to hear from him and see him and see if he's the real deal. >> let's talk about big donors. politico is reporting big donors from the republican establishment have stayed on the sidelines so far and a new article saying it's shaping up as a choice between one candidate who looks electable, and another who might be inevitable. who is in a better position right now? >> you know, honestly, in our poll today, the politico poll, mitt romney, he's trailing in the head-to-head with rick perry. but, there are some strengths in that poll for him that should give perry some pause. we have to question who would you most consider -- would consider voting for in the field, even if you're not committed to that candidate today, and mitt romney got the highest percentage. meaning 40% of voters are looking at him. and that's higher than perry. but just shows you that people are kind of looking around,

testing the field. they want to see how people perform, and if perry's not careful, mitt romney can sneak in there. he certainly impressed yesterday in south carolina. and so it's something that, you know, even though the polls show him well behind right now, polls at this stage in the head-to-head match-ups don't mean as much. >> let's take a look at this from the white house per spikive. if you look at it in a general election spachup, perry trails the president by roughly 5%. and then when we look at what mitt romney is doing it's basically almost neck and neck when you consider a margin of error. who would the president rather see as his big contender? >> you know, i think he would rather see someone other than rick perry and mitt romney. and -- >> so michele bachmann emerging from the middle? >> they would love that. or even sarah palin. you know, mitt romney and rick perry. they're governors. that's always a more challeng g challenging, you know, match-up. they're governors with records. of course, records that can be picked through, and challenged. there's obviously a very long trail there for rick perry in

terms of what he has done in texas. if the economy is not doing better and our poll shows as yours, three out of four americans believe that the country is on a wrong track. that is just a very dangerous figure for the president. for any incumbent. and as long as the economy is not doing better, i mean that's the biggest -- that's the riskiest thing here for the president. >> the president now has a presidential track record that he needs to run on. >> yes. >> kerry rudolph brown. great to see you this morning. thanks for your time. >> thank you. >> programming note, tomorrow be sure to trun in for the nbc news politico republican debate right here on msnbc. can the president get re-elected without moving the needle on unemployment? we're going to ask key congressional democrats that very question. also the mood in washington, d.c. now that congress is back in session after vacation, that and much more next. you name it. i've tried it.

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welcome back, everybody, congress returns this week on the heels of a dismal jobs report. and according to a new poll, with a lot to prove to the american people. today's nbc news/"wall street journal" poll finds 82% of voters disapprove of the job congress is doing. and another stunning figure, a majority of americans would vote every member of congress out. 54% say they want a complete overhaul. joining me now is maryland congressman chris van holland, the ranking democrat on the house budget committee. sir, it's good to have you on with me this morning. i want to ask, how do you respond to that? i know you answer in elections to your twants in maryland. but are you ashamed to be a congressman knowing that america feels this way about the people that you are serving with on the hill? >> well, thomas, i'm certainly disappointed in the fact that congress is gridlocked right now. that we've not been able to get important initiatives through here.

i hope we'll have a chance to change that when the president comes before the congress on thursday to deliver his jobs program. and that will be a test for congress. because, the president needs a partner in congress to move forward his proposals, whether it's infrastructure investment, whether it's dealing with the housing crisis. whether it's dealing with the issue of putting a little bit more money in consumer's pockets so they get out there and purchase goods and services. so this will be a test, you know, we haven't been hearing a lot of support out of our colleagues in the house right now for some the ideas the president has. but i hope that will change. >> congressman, america is judging you on how you have been tested so far. and in today's nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, 71% of people disagreed with how washington handled the last budget negotiation. you're a member of the super committee that's charged with cutting $1.5 trillion by thanksgiving. is it gog be any different this time around? >> well, i certainly hope so. and let me say, thomas, count me among the 80% or more of people who are disappointed with the

course the congress has taken in recent times. because, there has been stalemate. we've been unable to get things through. especially here in the house. but i hope the super committee will break that pattern. i think people have got to come to the table in the spirit that we've got to solve these problems 73 for the good of the american people. and i hope we will adopt at least the framework that other bipartisan groups have taken. simpson bowles, domenici, these are bipartisan commissions that said, number one, we have to take a balanced approach to deficit reduction. yes, we have to make some tough cuts but we also have to cut some of the special interest tax breaks, and the fastest and most effective way to get the deficit down is to get people back to work and deal with the jobs picture. >> when you talk about contrition that you feel in agreeing with how america feels about what's taking place in washington, d.c., through your own admission, the stalemate that's there on the hill, what

do you say to the unemployed americans that want to get back to work, that say, congressman van holland has a job, i'd like to have a job, why can't these people help me? >> well, i would say to them that we're going to do everything we can. to change that dynamic in the house of representatives. let me give you one example. we have 14% unemployment in the construction industry. unfortunately the house republican budget would cut the federal investment in our roads and bridges by one-third compared to last year when it was still too low. those are jobs that can be had right away doing a job that needs to be done, repairing our aging infrastructure, schools, roads, bridges. but unless we get our partner here among our colleagues in the republican house it's going to be hard to move that forward. i'm sure that will be part of the president's proposal thursday night. and i would say to our fellow americans, please weigh in on these issues. ask your member of congress

whether they're supporting an investment in infrastructure and roads and bridges. look at your own communities. you can see the need for these investments. you can see there are people out of work. why would anybody oppose putting people to work doing a job that needs to be done. >> sir, one last point i want to get in. a new "washington post" article said that 100 registered lobbyists used to work for members of the super committee. so to what extent are these negotiations potentially muddled by conflicting lobbyists? >> well, i would simply say that i come to this table in a spirit of transparency. i hope we will have a full and open debate that the american people will see. we have to make sure that we talk to folks on all sides of the issue, and then use and exercise our best judgment in what makes sense to move forward with the american people. jobs front and also in terms of a deficit reduction plan. i certainly know i'm coming to the table in that spirit. and i believe my colleagues are, too. in terms of the final product,

we'll have to see how things shape up. >> all right, congressman chris van holland of maryland. real quickly, sir, a light question, what do you think of the university of maryland's new uniforms? >> hey, look, all i can say is that my 15-year-old son thought they were pretty cool. >> they're taking a lot of flak today. >> i know, but they caught everyone's attention. you know, it was the spirit of maryland, right? they had the maryland flag right there. >> i'm from baltimore so i'm all for it. i'll let you go, sir. mother fate's fury coming up. remnants from what tropical storm lee will be feeling for much of the nation. what it's doing to parts of the country. and hiring now, we're finding companies that are actively hiring right now. if you are looking for work, stay put. [ male announcer ] this is coach parker... whose non-stop day starts with back pain... and a choice. take advil now and maybe up to four in a day. or choose aleve and two pills for a day free of pain. way to go, coach.

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to make baby food the way moms this would. happybaby strives to make the best organic baby food. in a business like ours, personal connections are so important. we use our american express open gold card to further those connections. last year we took dozens of trips using membership rewards points to meet with farmers that grow our sweet potatoes and merchants that sell our product. vo: get the card built for business spending. call 1-800-now-open to find out how the gold card can serve your business. hi, everybody, i'm thomas roberts. here's what's topping the news now. hurricane lee, after soaking louisiana for five straight

days, tropical storm lee, excuse me, now a tropical depression, it has finally moved on but it left behind plenty of flooding. very strong, southerly winds created a storm surge that pushed water onto roads and into homes. but the good news is that the remnants of lee should keep hurricane katia offshore and the weather channel's carl parker joins us live from atlanta with the very latest on that one. carl, good morning. >> good morning to you. we are still dealing with some issues from what is left of lee. right now we're watching a lot of rain coming up into the northeast. there is a tornado threat again today. a number of tornadoes spotted in georgia yesterday. carolina through southern virginia seeing that tornado watch. and we think these strong storms in d.c., as well. there's going to be a lot of tropical moisture over the next couple of days. a big feed of tropical moisture getting into the very areas where we had so many problems with irene. so there certainly could be more flooding over the next couple of days. but as you mentioned, lee is at least helping us out, as regards katia, which is now a major hurricane, 120-mile-per-hour wind. very well-formed storm.

it's a large and powerful circulation. but because of the southerly flow associated with what's left of lee, it's going to help to redistrict the storm. so a huge wakefield we're going to see those waves and also rip current threat making its way toward the east coast even as the storm is curved around toward the east. >> carl parker, thank you, sir. appreciate it. neither snow nor rain will keep the postal service from making its deliveries. but its skyrocketing debt just might. the postmaster general heads to congress today to plead for federal assistance. without the help the postal service could default and face shutdown coming up early next year. four former news international execs are testifying before british parliament today on the tabloid phone hacking scandal. all four have challenged the recent testimony given by the murdoch family. they also expected to answer questions regarding evidence suggesting voicemail interception at the "news of the world" tabloid was a much more common practice than the company first claimed. good news for all of you who might be needle phobic and are

already nervous about getting a flu shot. a new vaccine with a tiny needle will make a limited debut this year. the new shot will be just atonth of an inch. president obama spoke before an energized crowd of workers in detroit this labor day. he offered few specifics on his upcoming jobs plan but called out house republicans, asking if they will, quote, put country before party. but before that speech, and before the president arrived, teamsters president jimmy hoffa jr. zeroed in on a more specific group with fiery words for the tea party. >> we got to keep an eye on the battle that we face, a war on workers. and you see it everywhere. there's the tea party. and you know, there's only one way to beat and win that war. the one thing about working people is we like a good fight. and everybody in here's got to vote. if we go back and we keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a bitches out and give america back to america,

where we belong. >> joining me now is msnbc political analyst richard wolf. the battle between labor and the tea party is that going to be the defining fight in 2012? >> there's no question the re-election contests are often about one base versus another. labor movement has a track record of mobilizing the vote for democrats. they did so in 2004. very successfully. but what we saw in 2004, the last re-election of a president, was the other side, in this case the republican side, was very highly organized and motivated. that motivation this time around is clearly going to come from the tea party. wherever they can translate that in the kind of mass organization that we saw, the mechanical operations of the bush campaign, it is an open debate. but certainly they have the motive to do it, and that's why labor force, labor union organizing, that street-level, door-to-door stuff, is so important. will be so important to the obama voters. because those voters didn't show

up in 2010. >> just putting a face on something, basically the tea party energizing the labor movement, helping the obama team rally its support for the campaign. >> yeah, look, the hard-core does show up. but the moderate voters did not show up. they didn't have the same enthusiasm, there was that enthusiasm gap in 2010. so, the labor organizers can really do a lot to get that enthusiasm back up, because the obama campaign itself is going to be organized with the sporadic voters, the obama centric voters, younger voters, minorities, and maybe some of these moderates. but you really need that numbers, the labor folks can turn out. >> richard, take a listen. this is another clip of what the president had to say yesterday. >> i'm going to prepare ways to put america back to work that both parties can agree to. because i still believe both parties can work together to solve our problems. folks have got to get together.

but we're not going to wait for them. >> he says he won't wait for lawmakers who won't work together. honestly, what kind of leverage does the president really have? >> the question is how confrontational can you be when your whole brand is about uniting america. so to get those moderate voters that we just spoke about, to get them to vote, you need to show that you're willing to compromise, and find that common ground. at the same time, the people in the labor movement, they want to see the fight. the base wants that confrontation. so, this has always been the challenge for this president. it was in 2007 when he was a candidate. how much can you engage in the fight and still save your man in the middle and a man of compromise? and that's the balancing act you've got to do. so what leverage has he got? he's got to make some detailed proposals that are actually r50eistics, see if he can peel off support and then say, well it's not going to come on this when we can cover deficit this way or increase growth that way, then are they serious? it's tough, but that's the

campaign status for the next year. >> richard, thank you sir. appreciate it. >> you bet. >> all right, now to a new feature that we're debuting today, our "hiring now" series. we'll tell you where the jobs are priet now and what some of americas best companies are looking for from the labor force. this morning we start with boeing. over 150 jobs open on their website right now and plans to get thousands more of the hiring line, and those career opportunities. they span across the country. these are the states highlighted by boeing where they're looking for qualified workers. from washington state to washington, d.c. so how can you take advantage of the demanz around the country? john challenger is the ceo of challenger, gray and christmas and joins me now to talk more about that. john, we've seen the reports that the jobs, they are out there. but in a lot of instances, the skill sets are lacking. how can people find the right jobs to match their skill sets? >> well, you certainly, as you go in to companies, you want to find ways to translate your experience into the new

environment. a lot of times people get stuck in terms of thinking skills, tied to one industry. but most of us work in functions, in fields that can be translated coming out of, say, manufacturing, if you were in accounts and finance. if you were in sales, or if you were even, you know, on the line. you want to look at your skills and see how they translate into other instances. >> so there are a lot of americans that are deciding, okay, i've got to move the family. i've got to pick up and go where the jobs are. moving for the opportunities that come in new states. in this economy, is that something that more people should be taking into consideration? >> very important when times are tough, you go where the jobs are. the problem is, we've got a lot of people stuck in their homes over this rescission, unable to get out of those homes. that's been cutting back on some of this migration that normally happens. you can find a way to do that, then going to say, the plains

states where unemployment has been very low, right on through, or even to texas, which has had lower unemployment than much of the rest of the country, going back to towns you've lived in in the past that have better unemployment numbers, because you have ways back into the companies. people you knew then. those are the way people make changes out of a particular geographic area. >> john challenger, thank you, sir. we appreciate your insights this morning. >> thank you. >> if you have a company that you'd like us to cover, tweet me @thomasaroberts. and we can use your suggestion on an upcoming "hiring now" segment, something we're going to continue right here on msnbc. for the coming anniversary of 9/11 reminds americans that the u.s. has been at war and been at war for over a decade. and the children born in 2001 have lived their entire lives in the shadow of the devastating event that was 9/11. that's the topic of today's "sound off" segment. melissa harris perry joins me now from new orleans.

she's a professor of political science at tulane and a columnist for the nation. melissa, nice to see you this morning. kids born around the time of 9/11, they're now roughly in fourth grade. they've only known an america in the wake of 9/11. how do you think growing up in a war time, a wartime like this, has affected this generation like no other? >> you know, it's such a long and protracted war. and at the same time a war that feels very distant for these young people. you know, when osama bin laden was killed, this year, my daughter, who is of the same generation, born in early 2002, only had a vague idea of who osama bin laden was. or why it mattered, or why there was such an emotional outcry, both in our household, and across the country. and so, i think for many young people, the unfortunate reality is that it's a kind of normalized experience. if it's been part of their entire childhood, it may be hard to see how the world could even be different if we weren't at war. >> my niece and nephew both born

after 2002, and i think about they don't know what it was like before this. before their mom and their dad and their uncle knew people that were fighting in basically three different wars right now. how will this compare to other war time generations? >> well, certainly one thing that we see is that these young people are not getting the sense of victory. there's not a sense of that there is some clear ending point. this so-called war on terrorism is one that continues, because we're simply in an age of terrorism. there's no moment where we can say definitively that we are safe, for example. the other thing is, i think there's also a vague sense of who the opponent is of, you know, sort of what the american narrative is with this. and then, of course, the third and critically important one is that they are living with the financial consequences, the economic consequences of having been at war as a country for a decade. the fact is that our recession is tied in important ways to our outlay of expenses overseas, and

that's impacting all of their opportunities as young people, and ultimately, as, you know, future workers. >> i just wanted to get your insite as a college professor. what are the kids that basically had have their time prewar and now half their lives post war think about as we ramp up to this anniversary, also the killing/capture of osama bin laden? >> sure, i mean, remember that for the young people who are in their early 20s that i encounter, you know, many of them, particularly those who are from fewer economic circumstances, or less well-off economic circumstances, they have friends who are going off to fight in a war that began when they were in elementary school. or and again this is like because it's a long war on terror, not necessarily in iraq, and so for them this is, again, part of their basic reality growing up, and it's not clear to them when there is an end point. particularly this economic circumstance, the possibility of enlistment for those who come from households without a lot of

resources, it sort of, you know, future possibility for so many of them. they're looking at service, not so much because of their patriotism. although they are patriotic. but because it's an economic necessity for them. >> melissa harris-perry. great to see you this morning. >> thanks. good to see you, thomas. >> so big changes for the university of maryland football uniforms. take a peek. it's got everybody talking. and judging by what's going on on twitter, people aren't happy about it. the new look inspired by the maryland state flag is bringing scorn and laughter. basketball king lebron james treated oh, gosh, maryland, ewww. the team's look took everyone's attention from the actual game. maryland beating maim 32-24. i don't think they look that bad. i had a heart problem. i was told to begin my aspirin regimen. i just didn't listen until i almost lost my life.

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why did you buy my husband a falcon? thanks for the falcon. i didn't buy anyone a falcon. sure, you did. you saved us a lot of money on auto insurance. i used that money to buy a falcon. ergo, you bought me a falcon. i should've got a falcon. most people who switch to state farm save on average about $480. what they do with it, well, that's their business. oh, that explains a lot, actually. [ chuckles ] [ male announcer ] another reason people switch to state farm. aw, i could've gotten a falcon. [ male announcer ] get to a better state. [ falcon screeches ] so, confessions of a so-called bad teacher. a former public schoolteacher in new york city offers a very personal account of his time in front of the class.

he says despite his best efforts to do some good in the midst of a quote, bed bug caliber infestation of bad teachers he was labeled unprofessional, insubordinate and even culturally insensitive. i'm joined now by john owens. a magazine writer and former new york city schoolteacher to talk more about his experience. you were saying you focused mainly on kids between the eighth grade level and tenth grade levels. >> right. >> but you were saying it's kind of a nightmare, because you were living in a teaching world where your hands were tied by bureaucracy. explain what you mean by that. >> well, what it is now. you see so much of everybody's assuming all teachers are bad. and in my experience, when i went into the school, i started exactly a year ago today, as a teacher in new york city public schools in the south bronx. it was, you're a bad teacher. if you were a good teacher you could control the kids. if you were a good teacher, all the kids would -- would do very well. if you were a good teacher, maybe the parents would answer the phone when you call. and so what it became was,

teachers are bad until proven good. and it's very easy to be proven bad. >> you came from a background of being a former corporate executive before teaching. you say you still have -- do you think you had enough time in the barrel to come away with an accurate perception of what it's like to be a teacher if you were only there roughly a year? >> i was there five months. because it looked like i wasn't going to survive. okay? what happened was i was a m magazine editor and executive for many years. i decided to become a teacher because i wanted to make a difference. i spent a year in a masters programming and teaching and working with other teachers and learning how to do it. i went into the south bronx and suddenly i was a bad teacher. the rule i learned was don't let management get involved. what they -- don't do anything -- >> a hands-off approach. >> they don't want you to disturb them. management wants you to handle everything. you have kids with behavior problems. kids with learning problems.

kids with emotional problems. deal with it in the classroom. it's all the teacher's fault. >> one thing that you did get was a letter from the principal saying that you were culturally insensitive. what was that in response to? >> well, what had happened was we had a meeting with the parents one night. parent night at the school. a few parents showed up, and i said to them, i said, you know, i went and observed a school in a wealthy suburb and what i saw is the kids come in, sit down, and get to work. by the end of the year, they have so much more teaching time and learning time. if you tell your kids your kidsn and sit down and get to work, look at all the more teaching time and learning thyme we'll have. the next thing you know i was culturally insensitive. i had a letter in my file and i was on my way to being a bad teacher. >> how do you look back on this experience? one that you said was a little more altruistic of why you got involved how do you respond to the experience and do you miss snit. >> i do miss the kids.

i don't miss the management. i have a piece on salon where i discuss this whole thing. confessions of a bad teacher. it goes on and tells the whole story. i do miss the kids because i think i really was connecting with them and making a difference and giting them excited about writing and learning and succeeding. >> it's an interesting article. again, it's on salon.com. john owens. thanks so much. nice to meet you. straight ahead we're going to have an update for you about amanda knox. she is back in court appealing the conviction that land her there. a 26-year prison sentence for the murder of her british roommate. we go live now to italy. explain, what's the latest from the croom where dna is really the king of the day? >> reporter: thomas, that's true. it's a battle of forensics. a battle of dna. the court heard from state police forensic expert who actually obtained and produced the initial results that led to the conviction of amanda knox and her former boyfriend

defending rigorously her and her unit's decision and profiles of this dna. we've also heard from more recently on this stand the expert from the defense actually for that of amanda knocks's co-accused who has shown the court photographs of a refrigerator and freezer and the victim of amanda knox's former home filled with evidence bags biological material that the freezer was used by police during the investigation. this is an example of sloppy collection that's been pointed out. we're expecting this battle to continue all week. thomas, we could have a verdict by the end of the month. >> chapman, thank you. the gop front uners. what we learned four years ago

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welcome back. now to today's flip side. the gop field is shaping up to be a two-man race with rick perry and mitt romney consistently polling in the top spots. on this day many the last go around former new york mayor rude eye giuliani was dominating the field with an 11-point lead. second place belonged to fred tomorrowson. the famous senator famous for his role on law and order. mike huckabee was barely a blip on the radar screen. and could a last entry shake things up? sarah palen has been sounding like a candidate but she might take a look at wesley clark after a couple of weeks leading the polls the novelty wore off and he fell to the back of the pack. rick perry makes his first debut appearance in the debate

tomorrow. you can tune into msnbc to see how that will impact the race. that's going to do it for me today. i appreciate your time. i'm going to see you back at 4:00 p.m. eastern today. i'm filling in for dylan ratgan. for now we're going to turn it over to craig melvin for the next hour. we're going to take a look at the secret military organization helping america win the war against terror. also, can the post office be saved in and what age is the right age to send your child to kindergarten? that debate continues next right that debate continues next right here on msnbcstarts with back p. and a choice. take advil now and maybe up to four in a day. or choose aleve and two pills for a day free of pain. way to go, coach. ♪

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