trillion. do you know what the total regulatory burden is? $1.7 trillion a year. this is not just some little side issue. this is burdens on enterprises from growing and expanding and starting in america and if i'm in the white house, the first thing i'm going to do on day one is say all of those regulations that were put in place by president obama -- by the way, his rate of adding regulations is about four times greater than president bush's was. so all of those policies, all of those regulations he put in place, i'm going to stop in their tracks and take any of those -- any of those regulations -- >> hi, everybody. i'm thomas roberts in for dylan ratigan. today you've been watching mitt romney unvague his jobs plan in nevada. we'll talk more about that coming up, but the show starts right now.

good afternoon, everybody. the big story today is what a mess. our new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll showing confidence plummeting when it comes to the economy, our politicians and the future of our nation. we've been watching, as i said, mitt romney rolling the dice on a jobs plan unveiling the details as we speak in las vegas. romney vowing to get the 14 million americans back to work, rolling back regulations and expanding oil, coal and gas production here at home. even before the speech romney is gaining on president obama in the polls. the two now, in a statistical tie in a general election matchup. insiders are now questioning if the president can turn it around, and turn it around in time to win re-election. his overall approval rating, 44%. lowest every ever. 33% on the economy. with 73% convinced the nation is now on the wrong track. even higher than the 59% when

obama took office. the president tries to regain traction and the nation's confidence with a big jobs speech coming up on thursday night. it's a busy political week and we've got it covered for you. nbc's kristen welker is at the white house. politico the executive dreter at the ronald reagan presidential library prepping for tomorrow's big gop debate co-sponsored by nbc news and luke russert on the hill will approval ratings are worse than the president's. we'll talk about that too. first start with kristen. this week it's all about the jobs, kristen. especially coming from the white house and what the administration is going to say. we're hearing republicans like john boehner and cantor want to meet with the president before thursday's big speech. realistically speaking is that going to be happening? >> reporter: well, at this point, thomas, doesn't look like it. white house officials have no schedules announcements to make about the president's schedule. that essentially means no. they've said the president consulted with republican leaders a number of times about

debts and deficits and the plans he'll put forth on thursday will include plans that should have bipartisan support. will they actually? we'll have to wait and see. we got a glumps evimpse of what president said. about extending payroll tax cuts. i asked press secretary carney how much of the plan will actually be new? he couldn't give me an exact percentage but setted plan will also include new ideas. thomas? >> in an nbc news poll i want to point out to everybody, only 23% say his poles impreserved the economy. 37% say they hurt. 39% say they haven't made a difference at all. how does the administration, how does president obama keep the expectations for this speech in check, because everybody seems to think he needs to go big or go home?

>> reporter: you're absolutely right, and they've set up the expectations. he's delivering the speech before a joint session of congress. the expectations are quite large. though white house officials say, look, the president wants to present a bold plan, but at the same time, a realistic plan. he wants to present a plan has will get through the republican-led congress. that's, of course, going to about real challenge. we awe saw what happened this summer with the debt ceiling fight.debacle and that's contributed to the pessimism of the american people. >> kristen welker at the white house. thanks. and rick perry steps onstage for his first gop debate tomorrow nipt at the party favorite. perry leads the pack for the republican nomination with 38%. mitt romney trails 15 points behind followed by ron paul, michele bachmann, newt gingrich, herman cain and the rest of the hopefuls. at the presidential library in

simi valley. the sight of the big debate tomorrow sponsored by politico and nbc news. jim, good to see you. let listen to this first. romney and perry went after the president's economic records over the weekend. take a listen. >> our best shot at taking back the white house and our best shot as turning around the country is if this is self-serving, because it is. is if we select someone whose experience is not just politics. i don't think a career politician can fix what career politicians have messed up. >> and there's going to be some that got to get up and say, well, i've created jobs. and that's true. you know, there's one in particular that's created jobs all over the world. but while he was the governor of massachusetts, he didn't create very any jobs. >> so it's going to be a real ted for tat back and forth between these two gentlemen, if perry can attend. he already left the tea party forum yesterday to go back to

texas, because of the crisis they have there with wildfire, but, jim, explain to everybody what the expectations are for people to hear from the republicans tomorrow. >> perry will definitely be at the debate, and the expectations, i think are intense for both perry, i think bachmann and also romney. but a lot of the focus is going to be on that romney versus perry and the economy. politics is not rocket science. if you look at the poll, the country thinks most voters think the country's headed in the wrong direction, and people think it economic policies of this administration are not working. so it's all about jobs. in the two of them, they have to present themselves. perry and romney, as i'm the guy with the answers. i'm the guy with the solutions. i can create more jobs than my opponent and also than president obama and, therefore, i think the big fault line will be in this debate and quite frankly i think in this entire showdown between these candidates over the next three to four months. >> perry comes into this because he has big oil and the military in texas to spur that state

along. we're hearing now mitt romney moments ago laying out his big jobs agenda. will that help him regain foe meant um he needs against perry especially with that gap widening? >> i think that's the most fascinating subplot of this debate. how does romney hold himself is a lot of people are looking at perry. his first debate. can he be a force onstage? romney will be the fun one to watch because he's no longer the front aren'tor and his strategy playing it safe and slow and just be the confident easy safe pick on the economy, it might not work against rick perry. rick perry has real staying power and has a jobs record in texas he can point to that's tangible, real and i think pretty powerful in a political context. oh mitt romney has to think long and hard, how do i differentiate myself? one of the reasons you see a detailed plan, 59 specific ideas that romney's putting on the table today, because he wants to say, i'm the guy with specifics. i'm the guy you can trust.

i did business. i did the governorship. >> right. >> and i helped run the olympics. so i have the right portfolio. >> interesting when you think about the nbc poll showing obama in a statistical tie with romney, barely leading perry. obama loses when matched to a faceless generic gop candidate. what does it mean for the gop field in the country? wants obama gone but don't see a surnt candidate top replace him? someone they can get behind? >> that's what republicans are wrestling with. president obama unlike six months ago looks very beatable. all of his metrics all of this numbers suggest that he's very beatable. so republicans are trying to figure out what type of candidate is the best person to match up against the president. you know, looking back, someone like mitch daniels or somebody who's a safe conservative might have been very appealing had they jumped into the race. but the field is set. all eyes are on romney and perry. romney is a safe pick, but perry's the one who really excites conservatives and has a potential to unite

conservatives. social conservativconservatives conservative, bring the whole tent together. the question, can he take his game from texas to the national stage, and can he come off looking confident? can he look smart? one of the big questions people are trying to figure out about him. does he have sort of the intellectual rigor romney and other candidates possess? if he can clear the hurdle it's going to be hard for mitt romney to distinguish himself. >> we'll find out tomorrow night. congress getting back in sessionened polling worse than the president. get this. mine orpty leader mitch mcconnell summing it up of our poll the best. take a listen. >> i don't think any one of us is under an illusion that the american people are particularly eager to see us come back. and who could blame them. >> first of all, we head to nbc's luke russert on capitol hill. the president's disapproval rating has 51%, congress even

worse. 82% disapproval. what kind of resounding message is this going to send to the rested members of congress who are now back from their vacation? >> reporter: i also think with this poll, thomas, the most amazing number in there is that over 50% of americans would vote to replace every single member of congress. all 535 of them. that is something, talking to folks here on capitol hill, is resonating to a degree. now there is a line to go to for a lot of members of congress saying, americans hate congress in a collective poll but love their individual congressmen. proving not to be necessarily so true as we saw wave elections from '06 all the way through 2010. now, as far as what congress needs to garner a better approval rating. the idea, honestly, thomas, put some way of looking like they're working together. politically, that's not -- that's not tangible plt best in congress, a lame duck session where they looked like they were actually working with the president. what you saw today in terms of

an olive branch to president obama, talking about the jobs speech that's going to happen on thursday, a letter from john boehner and eric cantor saying to the president, look, snarp yos we're willing to work with you which can be deemed as compromise. things we've heard in the pass, passing free trade with colombia, south korea and panama. also the idea of money in the infrastructure highway bill that often is not allowed to go to the state's discretion how to use it. take that money, put it into major infrastructure projects. those numbers resonated to folks on capitol hill they realize on the house gop side they can't be seen as being the brick wall of no to all of the president's ideas and the president's agenda. but this notion that somehow barack obama is going to give a speech on thursday night and it's suddenly going to transform the -- the ideology here on capitol hill what has been trench warfare since the republicans have taken over the

house, seems to me someone who's paid close attention, fairly farfetched. there's not a real desire to accomplish a lot, because republicans are doubling down on their strategy. >> right. >> to be the blocking wall to any new government spending which they believe is an issue they went on and went on in 2010. >> luke, there are people talking about disrespecting this joint session of congress by not coming? >> reporter: we heard a few weeks ago representative joe walsh, tea party favorite, said he won't sit there for what will be a p.r. political campaign stunt. i'm sure you'll hear other members as the time gets closer. the important players will be there. john boehner, mitch mcconnell, eric cantor. they will be in the room. they want a meeting with president obama beforehand, you talked with kristen about. this is the president's one chance to really try and put the issue on the republicans backs and saying, hey, i'm willing to go this far out, compromise this much. he showed his hand behind choiced doors during the debt limit. will he do it public o'thursday?

that's the question everyone is waiting to see the answer to. >> luke russert on capitol hill. thanks. pleasure. coming up on the dylan ratigan, america fed up with the right and left. could a third party be the ticket? not if voters have anything to say about it. we'll explain. plus -- super pac, super powers, a new group plotting to make rick perry invisible. and trouble in the motor city. vowing to fight back against the war on workers. our specialist has decades of experience working with unions. former gm vit chairman joins us ahead. so your policy looks good, is there anything else? why did you buy my husband a falcon? thanks for the falcon. i didn't buy anyone a falcon. sure, you did. you saved us a lot of money on auto insurance. i used that money to buy a falcon. ergo, you bought me a falcon. i should've got a falcon. most people who switch to state farm save on average about $480. what they do with it, well, that's their business. oh, that explains a lot, actually. [ chuckles ] [ male announcer ] another reason people switch to state farm.

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welcome back, everybody. it's not secret no one is liked much in washington these days. not the president, not republican, not the tea party. despite the incredible unpopularity of both parties, americans are nots convinced that the nation needs a third one. check out the numbers in our nbc/"wall street journal" poll. 46% have negative views of the republican party. democrats and tea party fared at poorly. only the third time in the history of polling that republicans and democrats were both so unpopular at the same tile. only one-third say a third party is the answer. surprisingly. what gives? we'll explore that. our pin, karen finney, republican strategist and msnbc political contributor susan dell pur del percio and jimmy williams. good to have you here. as i am flu to this. only done the panel once before or the "dr show" as we take

it -- >> we'll be easy on you. >> the training wheels are still on this kid. the americans are looking poorly at what's taking place in washington now. when we think about the all alternatives of the tea party, has americans are feeling about democrats and republicans, being so unpopular at the same time does that make the tea party a common place to emerge from the middle? >> polls show, it doesn't. interestingly enough, even a movement with the tea party, some of the original tea party activists feel the tea party itself is co-opted by big money in washington, like freedom works and dick armey. probably what the numbers suggest is people don't quite know what a third party would really look like in terms of having a real alternative that they could say, okay, yeah. if that's what it is, that's what i support. >> susan, has it lost its shiny luster? the tea party becoming what we know in this country to be either a staple of the democratic left or a republican right? >> what karen touched on is exactly right. it's turned out people are frustrated and never wanted to be part of a party.

now there was they're labeled as being a tea party group. that's not what they wanted. what the numbers show is that people don't want politicians anymore. they hate all of them. why they tonight care about the independent movement that much. it's just another politician to them. >> jimmy, do you think that the tea party has lost what it came in with? the idea that they wanted to see new ideas and movements? basically it's create add larger stalemate when it's just a choke hold in washington, d.c. where nothing gets done? >> i said before i don't think there's anything, such thing as a tea party. it's the far right of the republican party. what i do think is that we have more people in the united states of america that are independents. that are not registered at democrats or as republicans, and since that's the case, they're all looking for something. doesn't mean the democrats or republicans aren't looking for something. it just means people are looking around going, government doesn't work. it's not working for me. i'm not being paid as much or don't have a job. >> no one's going to fix it. >> no one's going to fix.

i remind people of ross perot in 199 2. a pretty big movement. remember the giant sucking sound they used to talk about talking about american jobs. ross perot was a real figure, a real phenomenon per se who ran for president. bill clinton won with what? just under 40%? because of ross perot. there are things out there, tan generaltual tua ten general alcohtuals. >> and eliminating state primary competition could clip perry's campaign spending. jimmy, it comes back to the constitutional amendment you're working on with bill. remind everybody -- >> working on it this morning on the plane. >> i see the inch on your plane. >> right.

>> reminder, what is this? this is basically taking the money, sucking that money out of washington? >> listen, the supreme court of the united states in a very narrow decision said that money is speech. okay? and that corporations have the same rights as you and me and everyone else does in this country as long as you're a u.s. country, meaning can you spend money freely on campaigns. a supreme court decision. therefore the law. the only way to stop the super pacs going out to get rick perry elected under the republican nomination, in four seconds sshgsz to get money out of politics. that's the amendment we're drafting right now. we've got it throughout with constitutional scholars, and it's simple. not -- i don't know a single person outside of washington, d.c., not inside, outside of washington, d.c., that thinks that money and politics is good. and if there are, please, tell me. i'd like to slap you up side your face and tell your mother to take you to the cleaners because it's not good for america. >> susan, how would it operate,

though? how would d.c. operate if you take the money plug out? >> a change -- >> wonderful. >> the numbers are staggering. president obama's going to raise $1 billion. you have a super pac that's just hitting $55 million. these numbers are crazy, and at some point, people are actually going to turn off from all of this. there's only so many ads you can buy, only so many pieces of mail. >> 55 million compared to a billion is -- >> yeah, but that's the point. not including the super pac obama will have as well. another $100 million there. >> also not including the other super pacs we don't know about yet. i think that's the thing in this election cycle. we're actually going to come back and say, wait. maybe this is a bad decision, because it's going to be outrageo outrageous, what we're see in terms of how money is used. not just in terms of ads and mail, but what those things say. the kinds of messages. >> right. >> we will never know who actually was -- looking by --

>> candidates are actually could end up in a situation if they have to spend someone else's independent piece of mail taking out their opponent. you know? they do get caught up in this. >> be clear where the money's coming from. notes 25ds karen finney or $25 from thomas robert's mother. this is corporate america funneling money into campaigns and not even having to show who they are. it's complete and totally wrong. >> the coke brothers supporting scott walker in wisconsin to get a sweet deal for their business interests in the state. >> guy, i want to quickly go over this, though. interesting when it comes to money. a new arizona law charging family members and visitors to see their loved ones in prison $25 a head. it reportedly pays for the background check, but it actually is helping the state offset it's $1.6 billion deficit prison advocacy groups are suing arguing the tax is unconstitutional, though when it is stopped the state of arizona,

we don't really know. s $25 a head to see your loved one in jail. a cover charge that does not include booze. >> no lap dance or nothing for yours 25ds. outrageous. >> a one-time fee. you don't pay it every time you go. >> obscene and show what's a poor job jan brewer and her government are doing in the state of arizona that they're even con ten plating an idea like that. >> jimmy, if that's the pool of ideas they're kicking around, they really need to go back to the drawing board. >> i personally think it's funny. listen, if you break the law and go to jail for an extended period of time, i'm pretty sure you shouldn't be having con gentleman coal visiting. would you pay for a congreconju visit. in prison, i don't know if you should have many rights, frankly. >> well, no. every state right now is raising fees in some shape. what's the difference if you

raise a licensing fee a motor vehicle fee? if it affects everybody -- >> the implications of those kinds of fees what that does, that hurts poor people, black and brown people, more disproportionate to the other people who can afford that'ses 25, or those fees. >> we have to leave it there. coming up next, the war on workers, teamsters taking a stand. have they got it all wrong? former gm vice chairman bob lutz right after this. stick around. introducing the schwab mobile app. it's schwab at your fingertips wherever, whenever you want. one log in lets you monitor all of your balances and transfer between accounts, so your money can move as fast as you do. check out your portfolio, track the market with live updates. and execute trades anywhere and anytime the inspiration hits you. even deposit checks right from your phone. just take a picture, hit deposit and you're done.

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welcomes back, everybody. harsh criticism from the right after controversial remarks ahead of the president on detroit on monday. >> we better keep an eye on the battle we face, the war on workers, and you see it everywhere. it is the tea party.

and you know, there's only one way to beat and win that war. the one thing about working people is, we like a good fight. everybody here's got a vote. if we go back and we keep the eye on the prize, let's take these son of a bitches out and give america back to where it belongs. >> this afternoon hoffa is defending that criticism in a new statement saying "my comments on labor day in detroit eck other the anger and frustration of american workers under attack by corporate funded politicians who want to destroy the middle class." still, tea party groups are unanimously condemning these remarks and want president obama to do the same. our specialist, former vice chairman of general motors and author of "car guys versus bean counters." the battle for the soul of american business. good to have you on, bob. big question. is there a war on the working class right now? is that what the country is seeing?

>> no. it's a ridiculous statement. if mr. hoffa was to think about it in the cold heart of day he probably wishes he wouldn't say that. why would there be? everybody benefits from a vibrant economy and a vibrant economy is only possible if as many people as possible are at work and being paid for productive jobs. that way they consume, and everybody becomes wealthy, and the idea that there is some sort of war against the middle class or working class is -- i mean, it's pretty farfetched. >> susan, wanted to jump in there? >> yeah. a question for you. when we hear all of this rhetoric, we have to put it aside to find solutions. what do you think can be done to really bridge the relationship between the union and the manufacturer, for example? >> well, i think, you know, we arguably in some cases have too much union power and too much union wealth and that was certainly one of the factors that triggered the bankruptcy of

two of the three american automobile companies. not the main cause, but "a" cause. since then, however, look at the detroit three, for instance, ford, general motors and chrysler both added thousands and thousands of jobs since emerging from chapter 11. in cases of general motors, added a shift opened plants, hired new uaw workers and so forth. certainly the part of industry that i'm in is neither anti-union nor anti-worker. in fact, quite the contrary. >> karen, jump in? >> i want to go become to the question respectfully on war on workers. at a time when you are seeing the middle class in this country actually the size of it dwin paychecks are not going as far as they used to. at the same timepaychecks are not going as far, the top 1% of the company, making bigger and bigger profits they're not sharing with workers. you're seeing both public sector

and private sector employees seeing their pensions and those promises that were made in the pension basically decimated. why shouldn't people feel like there's a war on them? >> look, certainly the pay raises in the government sector are far outpacing pay raises in the private secretary perp what's happened, if you asked me who's under attack i would say the private enterprising economy is under attack. under attack of threat of higher taxation. higher regulation. higher corporate taxes. higher income taxes, high wage orders. >> corporate profits are as high as they have ever, ever been. had we talk about what's happening in the public sector, a lot of layoffs are going on. talking about people making more money, we're not talking $100,000. we're talking as 40ds,000 a year salary. those salaries are not going as far as they used to. >> well -- and my didn't evening e, mine doesn't either. my pension isn't as big as i

hoped it was going to be. that's what happens had you have a weak economy. we've had a very seriously stressed economy since 2008, and everybody is hurting somewhat. that does not mean there is some or the of organized war against the working or middle class. i mean, that's the statement -- all of this class war rhetoric is just silly and counterproductive. >> jpy, you wanted to jump in jnchtsz. >> i appreciate what you're saying. i want to remindy, ronald reagan, george w. bush, bill clinton, george wush all promised to actually ball, the budget. one did it. bill clinton raising taxes, corporate tagses and broadens the base. under barack obama in the past 2 1/2 years, can you speak specifically about the threat of raising corporate tax. are taxes higher or lower right now under barack obama than they were under george bush? just wondering. >> no. because there have been several efforts to raise both corporate and personal income taxes, and

to reverse the bush tax cuts, and in both cases, those were -- those were set aside, because it was politically unpopular, because, if you want an economy that's in the process of a gradual recovery, and i have to remind -- i always have to remind people, jobs creation is a lagging indicator of an economic rov recovery. not a leading indicator. first the economy gets going and then the jons happen. that's exactly what's going on in the automobile industry right now. so ethi so i think we have to do everything we can to get job enterprise, government doesn't create wealth. government distributes it and adds government jobs. we have to do everything we can to get private enterprise to have the degree of confidence where they will invest and create jobs.

and create wealth for the nation which is what we were always good at, but we have to trust the private enterprise system. >> so, bob, you're saying that this is a red herring, basically. that this war on workers really isn't happening in this country. how, it seems like it is -- >> of course -- >> shaping up to be a defining conversation for the 2012 elections? >> well, war on workers? this is so silly. and any enterprise that wants to make money in a private enterprise system has to have workers, it has to take good care of them, give them enough money -- >> they don't have to be american workers. they can import out of this country. they have to have workers to get their product out but they don't have the to be american workers. >> well, one of the thing that caused so many jobs to wander outside of the united states is that wages and benefits in the united states were prohibitively high compared to other countries. that has been somewhat reduced by major bankruptcies or chapter

11 cleansings like general motors and chrysler, but there's also one other factor that makes me very optimistic about the american economy, and that's the fact that the dollar is now at an all-time low. and that makes american industrial product -- i know of at least three industrialists who have moved production of hard items back from far eastern countries and mexico into the united states because it is now less expensive to manufacture in the u.s. >> you want to get in there, karen? >> again, trying to be respectful, but i couldn't disagree more. essentially, let's take the u automobile industry. we bailed the automobile industry out. you were in trouble. we bailed you out with american tax dollars. to say we did our part for you. why then shouldn't major corporations do their part for workers? and i can't see why you don't understand that? middle class workers are feeling very much under siege at this point. >> all right, but, look.

the purpose of a private enterprise economy is to make money, distribute it to its shareholders, of which the u.s. government is one of the major ones, distribute the wealth to share holder, who are the owners of the company. those shareholders get the dividends or whatever. spends the money and gets the economy going. and the american car workers, american automobile workers, still after all of the cuts through chapter 11 are still among the highest paid workers in the world, and are -- it's sort of an industrial labor elite in this country. >> and what are the ceos making? if we're going to talk about how much workers are making what are the ceos making? why don't we do that comparison? >> dack ackerson at general motors, i will tell you because general motors is partly under government ownership. i don't know exactly what he makes, but it's very modest. i know it's under $2 billion.

>> modest? . >> why wouldn't a ceo get $2 million look at the responsibility it carries. >> a car that you're driving a family in, minor in comparison. >> we have to go. bob lutz, thank you and i thank my panel, jimmy, susan, karen. thank you all for coming up. >> you survived. >> i did survive. almost lost you at the end. can't lose anybody. got to take everythibody to the end. and up next, tropical storm lee and the update on the dramatic wildfires. we'll bring it to you right after this quick break. ♪

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wildfires raging through texas, homes burns in the state. in an ironic twist of fate, instead of bringing relief with rain and wind, tropical storm

lee has been fanning flames in its place. nbc's jay gray is in the hard-hit base of texas area with the latest. >> reporter: hey there, thomas. the latest here is not good as far as the fires are concerned. the fires continuing to spread across the state of texas right now and the worst is here. more than 500 homes have been destroyed. more than 30,000 acres zisinged and number, growing. they believe it will be several days before they air to dry some kind of line and start to turn the fire back, but the wind la been pushing the flames. it's died down a bit today. it there's any good news, it's that. the forecast shows those winds will pick up again by the weekend which will make things even more difficult here. the manpower, the equipment stretched to its limits. in fact, the texas forestry service says any available firefighter in the region is asked to report for duty

immediately and to plan to be working for quite some time. it's going to take days if not weeks to really get ahold of what's happening here on the ground. the numbers we talked about with the houses, and the amount of land that's been charred, only expected to grow. this is here in this area considered possibly the worst wildfire in texas history, and it's only going to continue to grow over the next several days. that's the very latest, thomas. back to you. >> all right, jay, thanks so much. coming up next, in keeping with our theme, of what a mess, the jobless crisis especially tough on young americans. will the president's plan do anything for the young and the restless? the campaign action, now. my doctor told me calcium

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all right. for millions of college students heading back to campus this week, the plan is simple. go to class, graduate eventually, get a job. unfortunately, in today's economy, it's just not so easy. the latest jobs report showing grim prospects for millennials. the 16.44% unemployment rate. how do we get young americans into the workforce for the future of this country? an organization standing up for the economic interests of young americans. matthew, good to have you here. you say on thursday that you want president obama's speech to focus on three things. one of which is providing opportunities for funding for

entrepreneurs. explain how there aren't thee opportunities now. >> first we should step back and look at the fact not everyone even has the opportunity to be an entrepreneur because we have such pervasively high unemployment in the country. i think young people want to work. we're not lazy contrary to a lot of people who watch "jersey shore" might want to think. we don't want to sit on the couch and party all day. we're struggling and dropping off resumes everywhere we can. >> not a generation disassociated with society? >> dispel that nonsense and look at the fact that if we're going to start enterprises, because by necessity we almost have to be aunt pentrepreneurs because the not enough jbs to go around, we brought young ceos to the white house talking about growing their businesses, about getting access to capital. we've lowered interest rates on banks but they're still not loaning. the sba has a statute, two years

of tax return experience in order to get a loan. how are you supposed to get the experience? it's a catch 22, and we have a society that values experience so much that we're not looking to the fact we're missing the ingenuity young people bring it the workforce. >> is that why the other point you want to see come forward is the fact there needs to be more to stress the public service opportunities? that are going to provide that type of experience that may give a leg up to the future entrepreneur? >> amazing applications to americorps doubled, quadrupled. people willing to work for minimum wage if not below that because they're looking to work. yes, we need to expand public service positions and look at the areas where there's need. energy retrofitting, disaster relief, helping our schools. take advantage of the fact this country has all of these projected growth areas and use young people as an untapped resource, which we are. that's what i'd like to see the president start to talk to us,

and mention in his speech. that we're america's greatest untapped resource. >> matthew, another staggering thing for so many young adults getting out of college is the mountain of debt they drag out of college with them. it they're lucky enough to get out in four years. most people do carry this mountain of debt, some of the numbers would show that graduating seniors come out with around $27,000 in debt. a lot of people, a lot more than that, though. almost up to, you know, six figures of $100,000 or more in debt. so what are students to do if they can't get this job, they have all of this debt? where does the hope for their future then funnel to? >> well, i think that's why you're seeing these youth protests abroad, because we've seen massive debt. look, 47 of the 50 states cut higher education in budget squeezes. it's completely backwards. why in this society is it that the first thing cut is higher education that makes the future workforce more productive?

we should invest in that first. we're more worried about tax cuts for rich executives rather than invest in the next xwen generation for education, training, all of these emerging industries, physician assista assistants, nursing, clean energy, computer technologies. we have a short-term thinking problem in this country and need to look at where the economy for my generation will be in 10, 30, 50, 70 years ask that's what we're going to live to and i don't think we're prepared now. >> a grass roots effort to help swing obama into office. would it sweep him out of office? >> i think young people want to continue to have hope right now and i think young people today need to vote, because since every single other constituency votes at such higher numbers, clearly the political legislation is being made in washington is more cognizant and conscientious of this needs. if my generation doesn't step up in greater numbers, simply because we can't contribute the millions of dollars you referred to in other segments people are

contributing, we're not going to have policy that's conscientious of us. >> thanks for your time. >> my pleasure. coming up on "hardball" on the eve of the big republican debate, chris matthews live from the ronald reagan presidential library, and examining the role of the tea party in the gop. first, amid the tea party battling what has big labor done for america? the drn "daily rant" coming your way in just a minute. - ♪ i just want to know today - [ whistles ] ♪ know today, know today - [ cat meows ] - ♪ know that maybe i will be okay ♪ [ chimes ] travelers can help you protect the things you care about... and save money with multi-policy discounts. are you getting the coverage you need... and the discounts you deserve? for an agent or quote, call 800-my-coverage... or visit travelers.com. constipated? phillips' caplets use magnesium,

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and today's "daily rant" on what younger americans mean. let them have it, david

goodfriend. >> yesterday was labor day. president obama gave a speech in detroit. parades held nationwide. a buddy of mine and i went off the beaten path and took our 13-year-old sons on a camping trip in the kborgous tsenin doughia national park in virginia. as we hiked the appalachian trail along some of the most beautiful mountain ridges this side of the mississippi i asked the kids, do you know what today is? and that started one of the most interesting conversations i've had in a long time. why do we have labor day? to celebrate working people and all they've done for america. what about labor unions? should we be thankful for what they've done? well, kids can't be forced to work in factories anymore. we all get a two-day weekend. even the lowest paid people get at least minimum wage, and the places where people work are safer. that's pretty good. at this point i'm thinking i am the best dad in the whole, wide word. labor day camping trip. great conversation about the labor union movement in the united states. my buddy then, who invests people money in the stock and

bond markets for a living asked our sons -- are unions always good? no, said my son. i saw a movie called "waiting for superman" that showed how teacher unions make it impossible to fire really bad teachers so kids end up in a worse education. yeah, said his friend. and sometimes uniony troos to get so much pay and benefits for workers the companies send jobs to other countries. at this point i'm feeling totally proud of our boys for knowing about the issues also frustrated that labor management's boiler plate talking points infiltrated our kids' heads. i stopped the hike and i asked, why should show of us who don't work in factories or belong to unions care? maybe it has to do with safety. get on a tour bus at midnight, do you feel safer is the guy is a union contract worker who's had sleep before driving? maybe the economy. if the economy relies on consumer spending, should people be paid more to have more to stand and grow our economy?

then it hit me. it won't be long before our 13-year-olds are looking for jobs themselves. and they won't care about any of this stuff if they can't find work. that shenandoah park we were marking, fences and trail markers made by the last time the nation wrestled with such high pro-longed unemployment. will our kids face that? i'm a fan of what the labor union accomplished but aware from my experience in business they can be their own worst enemy sometimes. the kids' comments yesterday reflected this economy. maybe labor leaders should talk a little less about wages and pensions and the right to organization and talk a little more about creating jobs for everybody. focus on employment. growing our economy through higher personal incomes. talk a little bit more about safety on our roads and in our skies. labor has a good story to tell. a lot better than the cash cuts

fix everything crowd. a good fight, but it has to go beyond its own dwindling membership. the teenagers are watching. they want their part of the american dream. if don't do something about our jobs crisis soon, i worry about the conversation i'll be having with hur kids ob labor day ten years from now? >> david, you're still a good dad. a nice camping trip. interesting to hear your impression from the teens. do you think this is all about branding? >> well, it's certainly part of it. you know, i went on this show a while back during the protests in madison where i'm from and talked about bad efforts to disenfranchise them, but they still have to explain to all americans, young americans as well, why it's an employment issue, not just a union issue. it's an employment issue. i think it is really important for young people to understand we have to have job growth in this country and unions can play role in