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good evening, americans, and welcome to the ed show tonight from new york. breaking news from the associated press. the president is going to go big on his jobs plan. $300 billion in spending and tax cuts to add jobs immediately to our economy. the bad news,the republicans are probably never going to go for it. the ideological war between the tea party and the unions is raging. the stakes couldn't be higher. this is the ed show, let's get to work. >> everybody here's got to vote. if we go back, keep the eye on the prize. let's take these sons of bitches out and put america back to americans. >> americans are freaking out over what james hoffa said and what it means. tonight mr. hoffa is not backing down, and he joins me exclusively. >> the other side has declared war on labor's house, and it's about time we stand up. >> the vice president is laying down the gauntlet. tonight, i'll tell president obama what i need to hear in his jobs speech. and if you don't believe the

right has declared war on labor, just listen to one of the tea party's biggest bankrollers. tonight koch industries is responding to the release of that audio. good evening, folks, thanks for watching tonight. it's priceless audio. it's about time somebody stood good evening, folks, thanks for watching tonight. it's priceless audio. it's about time somebody stood up and said it just like that. james hoffa has the tea party playing the victim, and i love it. they're so offended. hoffa warmed up a massive crowd of people in detroit, michigan just before president obama took the stage to give a labor day speech. detroit is one of the main fronts on the american worker. hoffa fights the battle avenue single day in this country. he nailed the tea party where it hurts.

>> we face a war on workers. and you see it everywhere, it is the tea party. and you know there's only one way to beat and win that war. the one thing about working people is, we like a good fight. and you know what, they got a war, they got a war with us, and it's only going to be one where -- it's the workers of michigan and america. we're going to win that war. >> president obama, this is your army, we are ready to march. let's take these sons of bitches out and give america back to americans where we belong. >> this is just ed talking, i think he's spot on. tea party played a major role in electing governors like scott walker and rick kasich. they have been on a tear, to cripple middle class, with spending cuts and anti-union legislation that came out of nowhere. nobody's been crying for it. this has all unfolded since last november.

hoffa fights fire with fire. this is what i think workers and middle classers in this country want. and now the tea party and fox news, they put this fake outrage machine into high gear. look how fox news contributor and bush boot liquor reacted. >> i think it's thuggery at its best. it's what unions are good at. it's what we've seen in wisconsin, intimidation. this is the warmup act? these are remarks you would expect out of tony soprano, not a union rep. i take that back. the president should repudiate it. >> it usually means somebody's legs are going to get broken, somebody's going to disappear. tea party people don't use that kind of rhetoric. >> we realize blakeman doesn't get out of the beltway too often, there were no union thugs in wisconsin. i know, i was there quite often. andrew breitbart blasted out this line to his followers. take a look at what he missed. fox news left this portion of hoffa's speech on the edit room floor.

>> everybody here's got a vote. if we go back, keep your eye on the prize. let's take these sons of bitches out and give america back to america where we belong. thank you very much. >> mr. hoffa clearly wasn't calling for violence against the tea party, he was talking about bouncing eric cantor and paul ryan out of office from the ballot box in 2012. let's turn the tables for a moment. if you don't believe cantor and ryan use rhetoric themselves let's go back to the commercial they cranked out last year. >> there is a better way, and a new team is ready to bring america back.

eric cantor, kevin mccarthy, paul ryan. joined by common sense conservative candidates from across the country. together they are ready to make it. together they are the young guns. >> they're the young guns. what do you do with a gun? just kind of hang on to it, or do you use it? >> i mean, come on, folks, we all know that james hoffa was talking about middle classers fighting back and going after the ballot box to get rid of the very people that have attacked labor that were in that commercial. where was the outrage when that commercial came out? they're the young guns. over the last three years, the tea party has mastered this type of violent language and rhetoric in the commercials. >> if we're able to stop obama on this, it will be his waterloo.

it will break him, and we will show that we can -- along with the american people -- begin to push those freedom solutions that work in every area of our society. >> i want people in minnesota armed and dangerous on this issue of energy tax. we need to fight back. we, the people, are going to have to fight back hard if we're not going to lose our country. i think this has the potential of changing the dynamic of freedom forever in the united states. that's why i want everyone to come out and hear. go to bachmann.house.gov. >> don't retreat, reload. and that's not a call to violence. >> those weren't commercials, they were three top republicans out there talking to the crazy. people that worship the ground they walk on. let's see if we can break them. that's an old term about slavery. michele bachmann wants people in minnesota armed and dangerous. and sarah is famous for her rhetoric. nobody plays the victim better

than the quitter from alaska. she took time away from her fake run for president to post this on her facebook. please don't be taken in by union bosses' thuggery like james hoffa represented yesterday. what they care about is their own power in re-electing their friend, barack obama so he will take care of them to the detriment of everyone else. hold it right there. take care of who? this white house has not been overly friendly to labor in this country. in fact they were told that the employee free choice act had to sit on the sideline because they were going to do health care. the real head of the republican party blasted hoffa and the president from his controlled studio climate in palm beach county, florida. >> could there be any doubt hoffa --

>> the drugster and palin have been two of the most vicious attackers of the president and the unions over the years. neither one of them have a clue what middle class americans have been going through, since radical republican tea partiers have taken office. wage earners, i believe, know exactly what james hoffa was talking about. and they're in their living rooms tonight jumping up and down saying, finally, somebody's telling like it is. somebody with a position of authority is standing up for workers in this country saying, hey, we need to take them out at the ballot box. but wait a minute, they didn't like the phrase that was used. when republican policies take money out of your pocket? do you want to play nice? the answer to that is no. middle class americans are sick and tired of the talkdown culture and they are tired of taking the blame for what bush did. now, this is an ideological war going on in this country. and liberals need to fight. not with guns, not with knives,

not with commercials that talk about young guns and what they represent, just do it at the ballot box. the fact is, republicans in this country since the takeover of the congress have done nothing for jobs, have done nothing for the middle class. and have done nothing but obstruct this president trying to do something for the country. they've obstructed him so much -- and the president has been one olive branch after another. that's what's frustrated liberals in this country. that's why president obama's numbers have eroded. it's not eroding because the conservatives don't like him. those numbers are eroding because liberals in many parts of the country are very frustrated, that nobody in the white house is talking like james hoffa. so here comes the republicans. they want mr. hoffa to take it back. they want the president to disavow himself from unions in this country.

it ain't gonna happen. so what we're looking at here now, folks, is a classic. this is -- jon stewart are you paying attention? this is a defining moment. is this really how middle classers feel in this country? that they want to take these sons of bitches out at the ballot box? do they really feel that way? i guess only time will tell. liberals need to hit the tea party with the facts and never back down. the unions have been asked to take a back seat by president obama time and time again. the employee free choice act is a perfect example. those days have got to be over. if the tea party wants a fight, it sounds to me that liberals and workers in this country are ready to do it. just remember one thing, democrats, you stand with workers, you don't have to worry about getting elected. i believe that's the mood of the country right now. i believe the mood of the

country right now. i believe the mood of the country is exactly what james hoffa is saying. and that's why the right wing is so uptight about what he said. he's telling the truth. get your cell phones out, i want to know what you think. are republicans at war with the middle class? text a for yes, b for no. you can always go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. results coming up later in the show. joining us now exclusively tonight, james hoffa. general president of the international brother hood of teamsters. thanks for being with me tonight. i appreciate what you do for workers in this country and how you never back down. they want you to back down now. they say that you are purporting violent rhetoric. what's your response to that? >> well, we're not backing down, but what we said yet is right on. we have the votes, we have to mobilize our people. there is a war on work hes, and the way we change that is, we are a mighty army, let's march together and make sure we win at the ballot box and take out every tea party republican that opposes working families. that's the message i had,

there's no violence when you go to vote. the old story is, labor has the votes. and the old side, the republicans have the money. we have to go to the polls, we have to get this done. we have to capture that energy that you see in wisconsin, that you see in ohio. that is what we've got to do, and it is spreading everywhere else. i wish the president would get involved in those kind of movements, where we have 100,000 people in madison, where we have 50,000 people in columbus. that is energy. we collected over 1 million signatures in ohio. that is an energy that is spreading everywhere, and that's what's going to win the election in 2012. >> you heard the sound bites from some of the people on fox, they're making you out to be some union thug boss that is threatening violence. what kind of response have you gotten from the workers of this country. are they not standing up saying, way to go? or maybe i'm wrong on that.

>> the phones rang off the hook at all of our locals today. finally, somebody's standing up for us. somebody's saying what has to be said. we're tired of this namby-pamby talk that's out there. let's call people what they are. let's go after the issue, talk about the war on workers. and let's make sure we mobilize and vote in november. it was a tremendous response today. the phones rang off the hook in tremendous support from working families. >> do you think the republicans are sons of bitches? >> i think they are, if they're trying to take food out of the mouth of working people. what kind of a person does that? what kind of a person tries to take away collective bargaining from public employees, firemen, policemen, teachers is it what kind of person wants to go in and take away their pensions? you know what, that's a bad person, and that's the kind of people we're talking about. that is the war on work hes. the war on workers started january of this year.

the minute those people got in. one of the first things they did was to introduce right to work in 14 states, almost simultaneously. that is the tea party, and that's their agenda. i'm very proud of what we did. >> you're very proud of what you said? i think a lot of people are proud of you too. do you believe that fox -- that network is anti-worker? it seems like they repeatedly take a stance against unions. and they repeatedly throw out rhetoric that, you know, is just against organized labor. what are your thoughts on fox? >> well, i think fox is really a parallel universe. you watch that, and you wonder what world they're in. they're anti-worker, anti-obama. they talk about right to work. they just completely spin out a complete different reality than what you and i see. you watch other networks, they're not talking about what

they're talking about. and the people they have in, the glenn becks, the o'reilly's and those people. they're so anti-obama, anti-the democratic party, anti-workers. anti-people. and basically, what do they talk about? we have to take away those entitlements. that's the first thing they get to. they're talking about taking away social security, medicare, medicaid. when you tell people that's what the war is about? they say, we're not going to vote for them. but that's the message we have to deliver to make sure we take away all this rhetoric and say, those people want to take away what we believe is important to every american. social security, medicare, medicaid. when you get old and you work hard, you work for 40 or 50 years, you're entitled to those thens. >> you're a great negotiator, you've done a lot of great things for workers. i have a favor to ask of you tonight. i guess sean hannity is asking the question, why don't you go

on with him. i will ask you don't go on with him? unless mack co rubio comes on with me. let's do a deal. i want to know why the florida senator thinks that we are a weaker country because of social security, medicare and medicaid. if you can work that deal out, if you stick with me on that, mr. hoffa, i appreciate it. i think that would be a fair trade, don't you? >> i'll get to work on it. >> thank you, mr. hoffa, appreciate your time tonight. there's a man who sticks to his guns. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen. president obama had tough talk for republicans in a preview of his jobs speech. i'll tell the president what else i think i need to hear of this address coming up for working americans later this week. and rick perry has a few super pac folks out there that really want to give him a lot of money. and he's still leading in the latest poll. jim moore will join us for the latest. stay with us.

james hoffa isn't the only one firing up the working class in america. this is what joe biden had to say in cincinnati. >> you are the only folks keeping the barbarians at the gates. you're the only nongovernmental power. the only nongovernmental power. the only one that has the power and the capacity to stop this onslaught. the other side has declared war on labor's house. and it's about time we stand up. and understand it for what it is. >> i love it. barbarians at the gate. right on. president obama also took a stand for the middle class and unemployed yesterday. up next, you'll hear his challenge to congressional republicans. ♪ ♪♪

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welcome back to the ed show. the numbers aren't very good. president obama's job approval is at a record low 44%. on the economy, only 37% think he's doing a good job. but when it comes to the president's ideas for job growth, the public is on board. support for a federally funded construction bill stands at 47 to 26. and americans, yes, they do want to extend the payroll tax cut, 40% to 20%. the president is expected to propose these plans and more in his job speech on thursday. and it sounds like he's daring republicans to oppose him. >> we're going to see if congressional republicans will put country before party.

we'll give them a plan, and that will say, if you want to create jobs, put our construction workers back to work rebuilding america. open up new markets for small businesses to sell products. you say you're the party of tax cuts, prove you'll fight just as hard for tax cuts for middle class families as you do for oil companies and the most affluent americans. show us what you got. >> i'm glad to hear you talking tough about the jobs plan. the american people undoubtedly are on the side with this president when it comes to initiatives. but here are some of the things i hope that are in the speech this week. i was sitting around thinking, what could everybody agree on. not just what president obama wants, but what could we as a nation agree on? how about buy american? do you think we could get that one done? create incentives for people to

buy those american made products. maybe that will help manufacturing a little bit. how about this one? addressing china's manipulation of currency. address that. we need to fight the manipulation in the trademarkets, which is killing american jobs. i even think there are republicans that may go along with that. this is a popular one. introduce public projects. everybody wants to drive across a brand new bridge. there's plenty of guys that are out there ready to build them. we know the american people will support large scale programs that put people back to work. there's no question about it, and finally, this is the one i love. what do you say we cut the red tape. let's get government involved directly with small businesses, just like we did with the government motors takeover that saved millions of jobs in this country.

make it easier for small businesses, those entrepreneurs to go right to the government and get the money. cheap loans, let's knock off the red tape. let's get money into the hands of those who want to take a risk. money into the hands of people that go into banks and say, well, i'm republican, i don't like barack obama. it's all about regulation, they have all these bank regulations, i can't give you anything unless you give me half of what you own, and it goes on and on and on. knock all that off. i believe there are a lot of americans out there that if they had the chance to get their hands on capital, they'd run like crazy in this economy. but we just can't do that, because that would be a government takeover of business in america. just remember, it worked once, it can work again. loaning money to people who want to work is a good concept and it works. mr. president please put that in on thursday night.

joining me tonight is john nichols. great to have you with us. the president is expected to propose $300 billion in tax cuts and federal spending in the plan on thursday. i'm thinking, that's a great number. but what do you think? is that going to be enough? >> proposing tax cuts and cuts in federal spending is absolutely irrelevant to creating jobs. >> amen. >> it is possible that if you target some tax cuts to businesses that are hiring or do credits to them, that could be helpful. this whole game has got to stop, and this president has got to understand that his job on thursday night is not to talk to the republicans in congress. it is to use that forum to speak to the american people. the american people are hurting. we have almost 10% unemployment, almost -- well, around 16% real unemployment in this country. this president has to say to the american people, i have a plan. i will fight for you, it is not a complicated plan, everybody can understand it. i'm not going to mess it up with

all sorts of talk about taxes and spending. i'm going to talk about jobs, jobs, jobs. if he does that, two things will happen. his poll numbers will go up. and the pressure on the republicans will get intense enough to make some movement here. he cannot complicate it with getting lost in this whole deficit and spending dialogue, which wasted the summer. >> you know, john, you bring up an interesting point about putting pressure on republicans. i don't think they care about pressure, respectfully. i think they will do anything they possibly can to make sure that president obama has zero movement when it comes to creating jobs, when it comes to doing something positive for the economy. this is all about taking down president obama and his administration.

they've come three years, they've only got one more year to go, that's how they're looking at it. they're even saying, it's hard to watch a speech. demint was talking about it. some members of congress were saying, i don't even want to go to it. of course, walsh is a case in study. anyway, i don't think there are going to be any republicans that are going to step up and say, the president hit a nerve tonight, i'm ready to work with him. what about that? >> you're right, ed. they won't say it on thursday night. don't expect that. but put pressure on them. make them feel it at home. and, frankly, if they refuse it, if they reject it. that's just where we're going to be. the campaign for 2012 has begun. but barack obama must begin that campaign as a strong president with a plan. a simple basic, put people back to work plan. and frankly, i think he ought to borrow a page from his vice president. that speech in cincinnati was fantastic.

it had people literally screaming their lungs out. it's not that obama didn't give a good speech in detroit. i do -- i would like to see a little bit of that biden passion up there. i think that's what the american people want to see. >> john nichols, washington correspondent of the nation magazine, great to have you with us. there may be a major draw down of troops in iraq by the end of the year. we'll have the details next. michele bachmann still thinks she can drill her way to $2 a gallon gas. i have news for her, it isn't going to happen. [ female announcer ] kiss everything you know about cookies goodbye.

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welcome back to the ed show. the obama administration may be prepared to lower american troop levels in iraq dramatically by the end of the year. the number of forces would be 3,000 by the end of the year, including military trainers and advisers. they are currently about 45,000 american troops in iraq. talk about cutting the budget. the obama administration officials have told nbc news that no final decision has been made. but it is headed in that direction. one official told nbc news it would be difficult for president obama to leave a large u.s. military presence on the ground in iraq, once the u.s. and the iraq agreement expires at the end of this year. officials said once negotiations with iraqis got underway, the mission was quickly narrowed to

a training mission and 3,000 would be sufficient. maybe at some point this country can stop spending billions of dollars in iraq and afghanistan, and maybe we can get our fiscal house in order and put that money to work for our own use in infrastructure. perry is still kicking mitt romney's rear end when it comes to the latest polls. and, of course, romney's 150-page jobs plan may not be helping him much. that's coming up next. and what happens at a koch brothers retreat stays at a koch brothers retreat. that is until someone leaks the audio to a mother jones reporter. [ groans ] [ marge ] psst.

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so it's down to two in the eyes of many experts, romney and perry. today we got a big reminder of why governor rick perry has jumped to the top of the polls over his primary rival, and that is former governor mitt romney. romney released this 59-point economic plan today. all of it packed into a handbook that's 150 pains long. >> it's about 150 pages, with 59 different policy ideas. there are a lot more where these came from. but we have one of these for each of you, if you'd like to take it and read it, so you can take a look and see the specific 59 steps i would take. >> and we all ran home to read that, didn't we? here's governor rick perry's economic message as he summarized it in south carolina this weekend. listen to this. >> freedom from overregulation, freedom from overtaxation. freedom from overlitigation. i'm about freedom.

>> fox viewers, who do you think you're going to go for now? perry will probably provide some details at some point. but you can bet he won't have a 59-point plan that's 150 pages long, because the tea partiers don't have the attention span to pay attention to that. they're more interested in the point. perry is also starting to attack romney's record on jobs. >> one in particular that's created jobs all over the world. but while he was the governor of massachusetts he didn't create very many jobs. >> perry is obviously making another comparison between romney and himself when he says this -- >> we cannot elect -- we cannot choose a nominee, let me put it that way, that's going to blur the lines between this president and our nominee. it has to be someone who has a very stark difference between the president of the united states and our nominee. >> meanwhile, congresswoman michele bachmann of minnesota is fading fast. her campaign manager ed rollins is reducing his role to senior

adviser citing health reasons. he told the washington post, the perry/romney race is now the story, with us the third candidate. and in the latest nbc news wall street journal poll, perry is way ahead of romney, 38 to 23%. among republican primary voters. among republican primary voters. bachman is down to 8%. let's bring in jim moore, author of "adios mofo." where rick perry will make america miss george bush. i'm not familiar with rick perry, he sits there in that easy way in that texas, persuasive manner. how is he going to do in the debate? now there's questions he's going to show up because of the wildfires that are taking place in texas. what do you think is going to unfold? >> we heard late this afternoon that he was going to make the trip out there. i think from a political standpoint it's a good move.

it will look like he's a guy that can manage disaster and talk to the public. i think he's going to do very well in the debate. he's one of those guys that doesn't try to win a debate, but he tries to not lose a debate. you'll see a very disciplined message guy who's going to say the same thing over and over regardless of the question. i think he will do quite well, and i expect him to be there. >> he bullet pointed his answer when it came to the economy. here's romney waiving a 150-page booklet. and here's rick perry, keep it simple stupid. is that going to work with the tea party? is romney out of this? >> i think what it's going to come down to for the two candidates, you're going to be faced with a couple guys bragging about the size of their tax cuts. rick is going to be saying, mine's bigger, i'm going to free up corporations, i'm not going to tax you as an individual. and i'm going to get rid of regulations. it's basically get rid of

government in all forms. romney is acknowledging that there's a role to play, but less government is better. and rick's going to win this, because he's basically going to argue over and over, get the government out of here. >> finally for a guy that jumped in the race late. and who wrote a book not thinking about running for president. he has this super pac which is lining up $59 million on how to jump out early on and end this. your thoughts on that? >> well, he's one of these guys who everybody is watching down here in texas for years and years, has thought that he is one of the luckiest guys in the world, that the stars consistently align for him, and he keeps winning. you're seeing that now with the president's situation, and you're seeing it with money turning away from michele bachmann. and the money that romney has is basically his and some other contributors, but for rick, things tend to line up, this super pac is the latest manifestation for him. and it's the latest on the big issues he's going to run on.

>> huffington post contributor jim moore, thanks for joining us tonight. michele bachmann is still proposing $2 a gallon gas. she's in the zone next.

south carolina tea partier senator jim demint says he's tired of president obama's speeches. but he's not tired of bashing the president over unemployment, is he? first demint went over government regulation. >> i spent the month of august visiting a lot of businesses. what they want is less regulation. they're afraid to hire people because of what they're afraid the government will do to them. >> now, but just a few minutes

later, demint floated a different theory about why unemployment is so high. >> i talked to a lot of businesses in south carolina who can't get employees to come back to work because they're getting unemployment and they're getting food stamps, and they say call me when unemployment runs out. >> he's talked to a lot of people in south carolina, just like that. senator, we all know that those aren't your folks. come on. you're a country clubber. so which is it, senator? are businesses afraid to hire, or are they trying to hire but can't get anybody to come back to work? by the way, mcclatchy just did a survey of small business owners across the country. and none of them said regulations or taxes were getting in the way of hiring. in fact, most of them were in favor of regulation and they pointed to the banking industry. and i'll bet demint can't

produce one person who will say he'll turn down a job to stay on unemployment. can we get that interview, senator? coming up, michele bachmann's campaign manager is jumping off the crazy train, but bachman herself is still going full steam ahead, stay with us. . that's why i recommend crest pro-health clinical gum protection. it helps eliminate plaque at the gum line, helping prevent gingivitis. it's even clinically proven to help reverse it in just 4 weeks. crest pro-health clinical gum protection. helps defends against occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health.

michele bachmann may be losing campaign managers right and left, but she's staying the course on her promise of $2 a gallon gasoline. she was asked about it this weekend and she's still towing the drill, baby, drill line. >> we haven't been opening up american energy production. there are many, many companies that would love to. we can do this responsibly. if we can access american energy, we will have a lot of american jobs. my progrowth proenergy policies will bring the prices down. >> how can a member of congress be so disconnected? either she is totally disconnected or she is just flat out lying. does she believe that people are

going to believe that? bachman has no hope of coming through on this one. first of all, she's lying when she says the president hasn't been opening up american energy production. hello! the number of oil rigs in the united states of america is at its highest level in at least a quarter of a century. it's up 60% over last year. and since president obama took office, the daily production of crude oil in this country has risen by a half a million barrels. but even with the oldest drilling taking place, where are gas prices? going through the roof. $3.50 around the country, right? bachman's guarantee of $2 a gallon gas, how else do we say

this other than it's just coming out of thin air? just like in 2008, when she slapped on to the psycho talk scene by calling for an investigation of anti-americanism in congress. no wonder her campaign managers are running for the hills, they can't be associated with this. for michele bachmann to insist she can bring gas prices to $2 a gallon is delusional psycho talk. it's going to be the mother of all wars. that's how billionaire right wing activist charles koch described the upcoming 2012 election. coming up, we have the audio he doesn't want you to hear. ♪ [ country ]

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[ female announcer ] nature fusion from pantene. hair so healthy it shines. >> and finally tonight, hundreds of conservative elites attended a private colorado retreat in june. so why are we talking about it now? the event was hosted by right wing activist billionaire brothers charles and david koch. today "mother jones" magazine obtained audio from this top secret strategy session the kochs have funneled millions into the tea party movement. and now have their sights set on the next presidential election. here's charles koch addressing the group. >> phillip ellender head of the government and public affairs at koch industries specifically addressed mr. koch's statements through a statement released on the company's website. he was not referring to president obama in his remarks, he was referring to the mother

of all wars comment made by saddam hussein on the eve of the first gulf war. charles koch went on to recognize donors who he says gave money to the cause. lots of money. >> joining me now is brad freeman an investigative journal journalist journalist.

we just played the audio you obtained for mother jones magazine. great to have both of you with us tonight. brad, what does this tell us about the koch brothers? what does this audio tell us. does this tell us they're just in it to win it at all costs?

>> well, they certainly are in it to win it at all costs. they've gone to extraordinarily lengths to raise an extraordinary amount of money and to keep it all secret as they did at their seminar in vail, colorado, playing pink noise around the outside of this event to keep anybody from outside listening in. they're playing for keeps, these folks, that's for sure. >> mike, your impressions about what's going down with the koch brothers. >> they say this election is nothing short of a battle for this country, it's a special kind of country they're talking about. it's the who's who of the grey poupon crowd. the people in that room he was talking to are are people who think just like he do, the same polo crowd, the country club crowd that has made this a gated community, want to continue to make it a gated community. they want america to return to the guilded age, ed.

that's where they make decisions, they think america is too stupid to make decisions. and they're -- in their oddball little minds, they do believe this is a battle to death in this country. it's a very scary kind of thing once you understand that they honestly believe that the typical american is just too stupid to make good decisions for themselves and they're the ones that are going to make it for us. >> what do you make of koch industries spokesperson coming out so fast with the response to the audio? >> it wasn't very fast. i had been trying to get comment from them for days on that saddam hussein line over and over again. they chose not to comment until it got out, they were embarrassed by it, i had to ask them specifically. if they want to change the goal post now and say, we weren't comparing obama to saddam hussein, we were actually appreciatively quoting saddam hussein, well, you know, we have the audio in full at bradblog.com, the story's at motherjones.com.

we are transparent about what we do, and i think folks can take a look at that information and decide for themselves what charles koch was really saying in those remarks. >> match up the nominee? >> it's perfect for them, rick perry's the one who's going to make regulations disappear more. no laws, no regulations for industries like the koch industry. perry is perfect for that. he's perfect for theinheritance taxes. this is a guy that wants unions to disappear, labor to take us to a side paying kind of america. >> they'll take perry over romney? >> absolutely.