tried the same thing with elizabeth warren, harvard law professor, credited as being the principal architect of the bureau and an advocate of the economic plight of the middle class. as senator scott brown feared, one of us will be running against him in 2012. it isn't me. a month avalanching his exploratory committee, elizabeth warren will officially announce her candidacy for the u.s. senate tomorrow. her first live national interview after tomorrow's announcement will be tomorrow night exclusively here on "the rachel maddow show" which is very cool. hope you will tune in for that. "the ed show" starts right now. good evening, americans, welcome to "the ed show" live from minneapolis. president obama took his jobs plan to the people today and brought it right to speaker john boehner's home state. ohio. and in washington, the gop is already trying to kill the bill.

this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> pass this bill! pass this bill! >> in ohio they were chanting for jobs. in washington, the republicans are squashing their hopes. >> this is largely a campaign proposal and not about getting our economy going. >> tonight, jonathan alter and katrina vanden heuvel of "the nation" on the republican refusal to create jobs. >> that's what freedom is all about, taking your own risk. >> the republican health care plan on full display at their debate. now where have i heard that before? >> the republicans want you to die quickly if you get sick. >> former congressman alan grayson is here and so is senator bernie sanders on poverty in america. and it could be a sign of the a apocalypse. the drugster says michele bachmann has gone too far. >> that's jumping ashark -- >> great to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching here on "the ed show" on msnbc.

today president obama took his americans job act right into john boehner and john kasich's backyard. the president brought his $447 billion plan to ft. hayes arts high schools in columbus, ohio. president obama is trying to force the republicans to quit acting like jerks and help unemployed americans find jobs again. >> i came to talk about how we can get to a place where we're creating good middle class jobs again. jobs that pay well. jobs that offer economic security. and the renovation of ft. hays is a great example of where those jobs can come from if we can finally get our act together in washington. if we can get folks in that city to stop worrying so much about their jobs and start worrying about your jobs. >> 2012 is all about ohio. ohio has been crushed by years

of outsourcing and the republican assault on working men and women in that state. the president says his plan will put ohioans back to work right away. >> ohio, if you pass this bill, then right here in this state tens of thousands of construction workers will have a job again. this is one of the most common sense ideas out there. all over the country, there are roads and bridges and schools just like ft. hays in need of repair. there's a bridge in cincinnati that connects ohio to kentucky that needs this kind of renovation. there are construction projects like these all across the country just waiting to get started and there are millions of unemployed construction workers who are looking for a job. so my question to congress is, what on earth are we waiting for? >> the bridge president obama is talking about is in senate minority leader mitch mcconnell's state of kentucky.

mcconnell blasted the president's jobs plan on the senate floor today. >> what the president proposed so far is not serious. it's not a jobs plan. the speeches we got yesterday only reinforced the impression this was largely a political exercise. for one, they undermine the president's claim that it's a bipartisan proposal because much of what he's proposing has already been rejected on a bipartisan basis. the half a trillion dollar tax hike the white house proposed yesterday will not only face a tough road in congress among republicans but from democrats, too. >> the president wants to create jobs by repairing crumbling infrastructure in this country. meanwhile, mcconnell only cares about tax cuts and defeating president obama. >> here's how one prominent left leaning analyst put it yesterday. the president knows raising taxes is the last thing you want to do to spur job creation. he said so himself. yet that's basically all he's proposing here. temporary stimulus to be paid

for later by permanent tax hikes. so that when the dust clears and the economy is no better off than it was after the first stimulus, folks find themselves with an even bigger tax bill than today. >> you know, it is so easy to put these cards on the table. the republicans are never going to sign on to the american jobs act. mcconnell and boehner, they have fought this president on every proposal that he has ever put on the table. boehner took some time away from the golf course to look at the president's plan and all he sees are tax increases. >> when you look at what we saw in the president's pay for yesterday, we see permanent tax increases put into effect in order to pay for temporary spending. i just don't think that's really going to help our economy the way it could. >> so the tan man is going to lay out his so-called jobs

package on thursday. boehner wasted pretty much the last nine months trying to cut, cap and balance the government instead of creating one job. the president has spent the last three years trying to dig this country out of the deepest economic crisis since the depression. today he nailed the republicans for having warped priorities. >> we have to decide what our priorities are. do you want to keep tax loopholes for oil companies? or do you want to renovate more schools like ft. hays so that construction workers have jobs again? do you want to keep tax breaks from multimillionaires and billionaires? or do you want to put teachers back to work and help small businesses and cut taxes for middle class families? >> it's all basic stuff. trying to jump-start the economy. you know, this president scores

maybe 100%, a-plus when it comes to being well intended trying to do something to jump-start the economy and putting people back to work. he can't do it alone. he needs the congress. i'm waiting for that moment when president obama finally admits it was a bridge too far, it was a field over the mountain that he couldn't reach. and just admit to the american people once and for all that he's done everything he can and there's no way in hell that the republicans are ever going to work with him on anything. because they're all about power. that's all they want. that's how they operate. and when they don't have power, all they want to do is obstruct. one obstruction after another. mr. president, this is not against you in any way, but there has been a serious political miscalculation by this white house to think that just maybe, just maybe they'll work with you on creating jobs. when their stated goal is only to defeat this president. get your cell phones out.

i want to know what you think. tonight's question. should president obama ever trust the republicans? text "a" for yes, text "b" for no to 622639. you can always go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com for a comment and we'll bring you the results of the poll later on in the show. going to ohio, ohio in 2012, it is going to be a huge state. that's why we're going to be broadcasting in toledo tomorrow night then in columbus, ohio, on thursday night. joining me now is the mayor of columbus, ohio, michael coleman who was with the president today. mr. coleman, nice to have you with us tonight. i'm looking forward to being in your city on thursday night with "the ed show," a live broadcast. we really want to know what the folks of columbus in the heartland are saying about this. if you could just tell us, mr. coleman, are people in your city and ohio, how frustrated are they with this exercise in trying to create jobs? how frustrated and how angry, if they are, with washington?

>> well, i think the anger is directed at congress because in columbus and around the state of ohio, people need jobs. the poverty rate has gone up. unemployment rate has gone up. and we need congress to put the country before their own politics in order so people in columbus and around the state can have a good job and put food on the table and shelter over their heads. and this whole exercise that congress is undergoing to oppose this job plan simply because it is the president's job plan is ridiculous and very frustrating to those on the ground. in columbus. you heard today, thousands of people saying, pass this bill. and the challenge here that as the mayor of the city of columbus, the largest city in the state of ohio, we need jobs in our city. we need jobs in the state of ohio and we need it now. >> and mr. coleman, will this jobs bill help your city? will it put people to work? do you believe in it?

>> absolutely. here's why. it will bring over somewhere around $1 billion to the state of ohio for schools and equipment and what better thing to invest in than education and construction? it will provide summer jobs for those that need summer jobs in columbus. it will provide permanent jobs and it will help with vacant abandoned housing in the city of columbus around the state of ohio. in our school system, it will result in over $100 million of school construction, and we need it. >> no doubt. a lot of cities in this country -- this country needs it. has speaker boehner done anything in your opinion to create jobs in the state of ohio? >> well, speaker boehner, and he's an ohioan, and i give him credit for that. but what we want to see out of speaker boehner is a working with the president putting

politics aside, let's put jobs above the politics here. country above politics and self-interest. our country is in a crisis. we need congress to cooperate with the president's bill. >> but you're telling us tonight that mr. boehner has fallen short on creating jobs? i mean, he has not offered a jobs package in all of the times that he's been running around the country for the last three years asking, where are the jobs? what's year response to that? >> mr. boehner has the obligation, duty and responsibility to ohioans to create jobs and work with this president. and the more they sidestep, the more they duck and dodge this issue of jobs, the worst off ohioans are. he's representing ohio. we have to make sure that he's working with the president because this is something that's important. we need jobs. it's real simple. >> michael coleman, mayor of columbus, ohio, great to have you with us tonight. thanks so much.

let's turn now to msnbc political analyst and "bloomberg view" columnist jonathan alter. also with us, katrina vanden heuvel, editor of "the nation" magazine. i want to ask both of you the same question. you first, katrina. what is the upside for the republicans to obstruct this? >> ed, i want to step back for a moment. i think we're at a turning point in this country. if you look at this republican party, this is a reactionary extremist republican party. its first goal is to defeat president obama. generations in this country have grown up with reforms, the new deal of the great society, humanizing reforms. they've given people opportunity and mobility. they've built a stable middle class. this republican party wants to dismantle those reforms that have built and supported i would say capitalism with security. have supported that middle class, have supported the working poor. there have always been debates about the size of government, but look at eisenhower.

he's built some of those bridges and roads in boehner or mcconnell's district. nixon, the clean air act. you have republicans who understood the need for government. today we have a republican party that wants to dismantle government and take us back to a time of great insecurity. you're on your own, jack, seems to be the motto for the republican party that wants to gut, dilute the possibility of reform, of opportunity for people who need jobs in this time of national emergency. so i don't think there's a lot of chance that this republican party will support anything, have any clue, and i wish what was shown at these debates for executions and people dying without health insurance would turn into lust for creating the jobs and security this country needs desperately if we're to restore that imperfect but always hopeful american dream we should aspire to. >> so well put there. jonathan alter, you just heard the mayor of columbus, ohio, saying he wants john boehner, the speaker, to work with the president.

that's something really he hasn't done. what's the upside for the republicans to say no to this jobs bill? >> well, because they maintain the same sense of discipline that has served them very well. just no, no, no. it's been working for them. so why would they do anything different? the only reason, ed, they would do anything different, and often the only reason anyone does anything different in politics is when the people force them to. when the people speak. that's why it's so important that people respond in support of this bill. obama has thrown down the gauntlet. now it's up not just to progressives but to anybody who doesn't want to see the new deal repealed, as katrina so eloquently put it, it's up to all of them to now get behind this. and i think we could use a little lyndon johnson muscle, too. this is a situation where you

have labor supports it obviously. the chamber of commerce, business supports this infrastructure. the only folks who aren't supporting it are the politicians in the republican party. so when he goes into their districts and states, i think what we needs to say to the folks there is, look, if you don't want it, you won't get it. and if the bill passes and there's not buy-in from your local politicians, it will be very hard to bring these projects to ohio. so in other words, john boehner, your republican senator, your republican congressman, he's taking money out of your pocket by opposing this bill. and that's the connection that hasn't quite been made, that by standing in the way of this legislation they are standing in the way of you getting a job. >> and this, by the way, is why it's so important, ed, it's so important obama not do what you

just suggested and say the republicans will never support this, i'm giving up, you know, they're just going to stop me at any opportunity -- >> now's not the time to do it. i'm not saying now is the time to do it. i think that day's coming. i don't believe the republicans are going to work with him on anything, but i do believe that day is coming when the president is going to turn to the american people and say, look, i've done everything i can do. i've offered everything i can. he put on the table the other night social security, medicare reform. we all know reforms are cuts. i think there's been a -- go ahead, katrina. >> john boehner, picking up on what jonathan said, john boehner and mitch mcconnell, do their constituents want their social security and medicare dismantled what kind of lives do they want for their children, their families? there's a movement beginning in the country. inside the house, jan schakowsky's bill. from below. president obama is a pragmatic president.

he should understand the people at his back are a countervailing force to the establishment money and power inside a city that at the moment is a swamp. we need to retake a government that works for the people and not just for the 1% of the 1% and by the 1%. >> jonathan alter, katrina vanden heuvel. great to have you with us tonight. we could talk for hours on this. we will do it again. thanks so much. remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen. i want to know what you think. next up, the moment in last night's debate that defined the republican response to health care in america. i'll talk with a man who predicted the moment. almost two years ago. there are shocking numbers out about poverty in this country. we'll talk to senator bernie sanders about what happened to shared sacrifice. that's next. ♪ [ mrs. davis ] i want to find a way to break through. to make science as exciting as a video game. i need to reach peter, who's falling behind. and push janet who's 6 chapters ahead.

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last week we found out that president obama's approval numbers were at record lows in his re-election chances certainly in question. but the reports of his political

demise may be exaggerated. a new survey by public policy polling shows president obama defeating mitt romney if the election were held today 49% to 45%. and the president leads rick perry by 11 points. 52% to 41%. perry's poor showing may have something to with the stance on social security. when asked if the program should be eliminated as rick perry says it should, an overwhelming 82% said no. republicans are just out of touch when it comes to social security and on health care. they play to the most extreme members of their base. more on that next. is it here?

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welcome back to "the ed show." at last night's republican debate, tea party debate, there was a defining moment for the tea party and who they are. it was when congressman ron paul was asked who should pay health care coverage for an uninsured 30-year-old after a serious accident? >> he needs intensive care for six months. who pays? >> that's what freedom is all about, taking your own risk. this whole idea that you have to prepare and take care of everybody -- >> but congressman, are you saying society should just let him die? >> no. i practiced medicine before we had medicaid. >> yeah. was the response from several audience members about whether society should let the man die. not a single candidate, it should be pointed out, not a single candidate on the stage

stepped forward to say it would be morally wrong to let another american die by withholding medical care. and no one in the audience voiced any disapproval. keep in mind this audience had no problem booing opposing viewpoints throughout the entire debate. it makes me think of something said on the house floor nearly two years ago by a democratic congressman from florida. >> if you get sick in america, this is what the republicans want you to do. if you get sick, america, the republican health care plan is this. die quickly. that's right. the republicans want you to die quickly if you get sick. >> congressman alan grayson was criticized by republicans for those comments but since then the gop still has not proposed any alternative health care plan. they just want to rip apart what they call obama care. since pander to the tea party base, they don't have to.

they just need to let them die. the former congressman from florida who is running for that congressional seat again, alan grayson, joins us tonight here on "the ed show." congressman, good to have you with us tonight. a couple of things. first of all, what was your feeling when you were watching that debate last night? you saw the question. you saw the response. and you got the response from the crowd. what were you thinking? >> i thought their true colors were shining through. that's what i thought. and you know, i'm often proven right. usually not so vividly. i have to say that this encapsulates exactly what people fear about the tea party. the so-called tea party. that they just love the taste of blood in their mouths. that's what this seems to come down to. they call themselves pro life. if you listen to them last night, it seems like they were pro death. i think it's sad. i mean, look, this is the fact. we have a country with 50 million people who can't see a doctor when they're sick and the republicans, the tea party people seem to want to blame you if you have liver cancer, it's your fault.

it's not your fault. and i think we can show a basic human decency toward other people without losing our own. i wonder about these people who seem to have lost their own. you know, we're 50th in the world now in life expectancy. canadians live two years longer. japanese people live four years longer. we pay 30% more for our health care than any other country in the entire world. are you telling me we can't do better than this? >> i was thinking last night that this may be the same line of thinking when the audience responded to the texas execution question that was put to governor rick perry last week. is there a parallel between the reaction to that question and answer as the one we saw last night on health care? >> yes. what the parallel is is sadism. a total lack of empathy. if you saw the movie "blade runner" the only way to tell the difference between the robots and human beings, the only way

because technology was so advanced is because the robots had no empathy. that's a good description lately of what i hear from the tea party. no empathy. they just don't care. >> do you think that any of those, well first of all, i'm surprised none of those candidates stepped up and took that answer last night because i thought it would have been an opportunity for them to distance themselves from the radical. does this mean they're all radical? >> oh, absolutely. you know, they're catering to the base instinct in every one of us. president obama, he's never done that, he's never tried to push the panic button which is such an easy thing to do when you're an elected official. never once have i heard him appeal to hatred or fear. they do that on the other side nonstop. they have an audience for it from what i heard. >> 49.9 million people in this country don't have health insurance. a doctor was on that stage last

night pushing for the free market. i think we are a better country than that. congressman alan grayson, good to have you with us tonight. i appreciate you joining us. >> thank you, ed. texas governor rick perry's strategy seems to be, hey, go out there and make stuff up and maybe nobody will notice. i noticed. perry is gone in the zone. later, michele bachmann went after rick perry last night over mandatory vaccinations in texas. she's peddling a story those vaccinations cause mental retardation? heidi harris and mike papantonio weigh in on that in a debate tonight.

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and in "psycho talk" tonight, rick perry and his tea party base, they are perfect for each other. none of them give a damn about facts. perry proved it last night during the republican debate when he said this about president obama. >> he had $800 billion worth of stimulus in the first round of stimulus. it created zero jobs. >> you know, i know they're changing the history books down there in texas. i didn't know they were messing with the math books as well. here are facts for you, governor rick perry. the second quarter of this year, alone, the white house reported the stimulus funded more than 555,000 full-time jobs. the president's council on economic advisers estimate the stimulus saved or created as many as 3.6 million jobs through 2010. four independent analysis had

similar results. rick perry saying the stimulus created zero jobs is a flat-out lie. there was a lot more psycho talk coming from the texas governor last night when michele bachmann accused perry of being in the pocket of pharmaceutical companies. this was his comeback. >> the company was merck and a $5,000 contribution i received from them. i raise about $30 million, and if you're saying i can be bought for $5,000, i'm offended. >> perry's right. he can't be bought for $5,000. it takes at least a couple hundred thousand. during the six years as perry served as chairman of the chief fundraiser for the association, merck donated $377,500 to the rga. republican governors association. the drug company donated another

$28,500 to texas republican gubernatorial campaigns. and to top it off, perry's former chief of staff was merck's chief lobbyist in texas when rick perry signed the controversial executive order requiring girls to get the merck-made hpv vaccine. funny connection there, isn't it? rick perry is so deep into the pocket of merck he can't even see his way out. so for him to act offended by accusations that he can be bought is texas sized "psycho talk." senator bernie sanders says poverty in america is a death sentence. that's being counterpunched. he joins me next. and in my "playbook" the battle lines have been drawn between, actually drawn in the fight over ohio's senate bill 5 which is now measure 2. nancy pelosi speaks in support of working americans while ohio governor john kasich sticks with his big business buddies.

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welcome back to "the ed show." stunning facts on poverty in america came out today. according to the united states census bureau report, nearly one in six americans live in poverty. 46.2 million people. the rate of poverty, 15%, is the highest since 1993. these are amazing numbers and it will take a real commitment to turn this whole thing around. with one in six americans living in poverty, over 46 million people, it's going to take a sustained effort from both the private sector and government. it means both parties, republican and democrat, have to work on this together. one president, one congressional member can't do it. all the right wing is talking about is tax cuts for job creators which is another way of saying that they want to give more money to the rich buddies.

we've had the bush tax cuts for more than ten years. and we now have the largest number of americans living in poverty since 1993. and the right wing, their answer is just more of the same? no amount of deregulation and freedom will reverse any of this with this horrible trend. our next guest, senator bernie sanders of vermont, held a senate hearing on poverty. here's a small part of that hearing. >> poverty in america leads not just to anxiety, not just to unhappiness or discomfort or a lack of material goods. it leads to death. poverty in america is, in fact, a death sentence. >> if poverty is a death sentence, it is a big government that has acted as the judge and jury conscripting poor americans to a lifetime of dependency on a broken and ineffective federal government. >> let's bring in senator bernie

sanders of vermont. senator, i want you to respond to what senator rand paul said right there. >> it was really quite amazing. rand paul is blaming poverty on the government despite the fact that we have given huge tax breaks to the wealthiest people in this country and poverty has increased. more to the point, in america today, we have a huge moral dilemma, ed. and that is that while we have the most unfair and unequal distribution of wealth and income of any major country on earth, you have 400 people on the top owning more than wealth than the bottom 150 million people. we also have by far the highest rate of childhood poverty of any major country on earth, over 21% of our kids are living in poverty. what we have physicians coming forward today at that hearing saying is, ed, if you are in the

top 20% income bracket, you will live 6 1/2 years longer than people in the bottom 20%. that's called a death sentence. according to a study at harvard university, 45,000 americans die each year because they don't get to a doctor when they should and they don't have health insurance. that's called a death sentence. >> and senator, aren't the republicans, and correct me if i'm wrong, i mean, i think they're lying about these programs that have been in place for 70 years. in fact, a new poll asked americans if they agreed to the statements describing social security as a lie. 72% said the statement is not accurate. and americans support medicare just as strongly, but these institutions of our foundation in this country to help people live in dignity and not in poverty are under attack. right there at a senate hearing you have an elected official flat-out lying about their

existence. what's the best way to combat this in your opinion? >> well, i think what we have to be very clear and understanding is that these right wing extremists at the end of the day, their job is to represent the wealthiest people and the largest corporations. so what happens, ed, if their dream comes true and you abolish social security tomorrow? what happens is that if people want some retirement benefits, they're going to have to sign accounts with wall street. and if you abolish medicare and medicaid, then you're going to see a tremendous increase in profits in the health insurance companies. the truth of the matter is, as you just indicated, social security, medicare, medicaid, are extremely popular. vast majority of the american people want to maintain those programs. they want to strengthen those programs. and they won't ask the wealthiest people in this country who have been drawing huge tax breaks to help pay for them.

>> we now have just under 50 million people in this country with no health insurance. in your opinion, senator, when does the middle class fall into poverty? >> well, what we have seen, ed, as a result of this recession and what the census bureau told us today, is that when you have 16% of our people who are truly unemployed or underemployed, you're seeing a significant increase in poverty. so unemployment goes up and poverty goes up. and that's where we are today. and that is why we need to do two things. number one, we have got to defend the social network, the safety net, so that our children can have at least a minimum standard of living. we have to be totally ashamed of the fact that we are by far the largest rate of childhood poverty in the industrialized world, two or three times what other countries have.

and we need a real jobs program to put people to work so that they are not in poverty. >> vermont senator bernie sanders, always a pleasure. great to have you with us tonight. i'm going to be in ohio tomorrow night and going to be asking the workers there what they think about those institutions. workers in ohio haven't stopped fighting for their rights. their governor is trying to take them away with senate bill five. in less than two months from now, they will vote to re-call what's known now as measure 2. we have the latest on the fight for the middle class next. stay with us. woman: downloading music can be expensive. so to save money, i trained my dog and this cockatoo to play all the hits of the '80's woman: hit it, mr. butters. ♪ ♪ take on me... ♪ ....take on me ♪ take me on... anncr: there's an easier way to save. get online. go to geico.com get a quote. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance.

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from madison to columbus to washington, d.c., we must protect and defend the

fundamental freedom of workers to organize. labor unions helped build this nation's economy, not just for union members, but all workers benefited. now is not the time to attack unions. in fact, there's never a good time to do that. now is the time to strengthen workers' rights. to defend them. to fight for workers men and women nationwide. >> and in my "playbook" tonight, the fight for workers' rights in america goes on. you just heard nancy pelosi addressing the labors international union, voicing her support for union workers. over the past seven months, kasich in ohio has made it clear big business and big donors are more important than the working people of his state. kasich and his republican cronies in the state legislature rammed through a bill because they said it was going to cut costs. really? they ignored the thousands of protesters who showed up at the statehouse in the dead of winter.

at one point locking them out of the capitol. when a republican on a key committee voiced reservations about the bill, they tossed him out and replaced him with i guess you could say a more friendly representative to kasich. but the people of ohio are fighting back. they collected a record 1.3 million signatures to put the repeal of senate bill 5 on the november ballot which is now measure 2. a recent poll shows 50% of the voters would reject measure 2 senate bill 5. 39% would support to keep it. kasich has been going all-out in support of his bill, painting ohio as a wasteland if it gets repealed. his most recent quote, "if we don't win this, the setback is how does ohio get labeled in the minds of companies around this country? is it a slow, heavy labor state? which tends to scare decision makers, ceos?" tonight kasich showed a

different side on hannity's show, talking about job creation on a national level, he started preaching about compromise. >> families are unemployed, sean. we have to start getting things together. we have to reach a little common ground out here. there are some things in that -- like that payroll tax cut and some other things we could maybe reach agreement. let's find those things that we can all agree upon so we can start get these kids out of poverty and get people back to work? >> so the president goes to ohio and now the governor speaks up. governor kasich should take his own advice and focus on the thousands of teachers and other public employees in ohio who are losing their jobs because of his policies. will be in the state of ohio standing with the americans, the workers fighting for their rights. for more details go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. we'll be in toledo tomorrow night and columbus thursday night. bachmann tries to link hpv vaccinations to mental retardation. you'll never guess who is criticizing her for that one. heidi harris and mike papantonio will join me next.

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welcome back to "the ed show." tonight in our survey i asked, should be president obama ever trust the republicans? 7% said yes. 93% of you said no. coming up, michele bachmann's latest claims over the hpv vaccine. heidi harris and mike papantonio will join me on that. and the town hall meeting tomorrow night in toledo and also on thursday night in columbus.

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rethink possible. helping business, and the world...work. ♪ ♪ ♪ when the things that you need ♪ ♪ come at just the right speed, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ medicine that can't wait legal briefs there by eight, ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ ♪ freight for you, box for me box that keeps you healthy, ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ ♪ saving time, cutting stress, when you use ups ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ to have innocent little 12-year-old girls be forced to have a government injection through an executive order is just flat-out wrong. >> that was congresswoman michele bachmann attacking governor rick perry's 2007 executive order mandating hpv vaccinations for school-aged

girls in texas. and following her debate performance, bachmann went a bit further. >> there's a woman who came up crying to me tonight after the debate. she said her daughter was given that vaccine. she told me her daughter suffered mental retardation as a result of that vaccine. >> this morning on the "today show" bachmann repeated her claim. >> she told me that her little daughter took that vaccine, that injection, and she suffered from mental retardation thereafter. >> but according to the cdc, there's no evidence whatsoever to support bachmann's story. governor rick perry last night admitted during the debate that he got $5,000 from merck, the drug company that makes the vaccine, but today he's calling out bachmann's hysterics over the safety of the vaccination. so are other prominent conservatives. rush limbaugh praised bachmann's debate performance but questioned the congresswoman's assertions. >> that's jumping the shark on

this. there's no evidence the vaccine causes mental retardation. that's shame. >> just hours ago, bachmann changed her tune while speaking with sean hannity. >> so that woman said that to you, is that the cause -- is that one of the side effects of this? because i've not heard that. >> i have no idea. >> she has no idea. what's going on here? joining me now, heidi harris, host of "the heidi harris show" out of las vegas and also joining us tonight, mike papantonio, host of "the ring of fire" radio show. great to have both of you with us tonight. heidi, let's start with you. red state's erick erickson calls bachmann's claims the gop equivalent to howard dean's scream. do you agree with this? is this an odd and unfortunate moment for her? >> i agree with a lot of what michele bachmann said about government mandating a vaccine. there have been people who died from it and had severe reactions. i can't address the mental retardation. as i recall, michele bachmann

never said a doctor has proven mental retardation is caused by it. she said a mother told her that that her own daughter suffered from mental retardation. is that attributable to the vaccination? i don't know. i don't think michele bachmann said that other than to repeat what the mother said to her. there have been severe reactions up to and including death as a result of this vaccination. that's not a lie. >> mike, the american academy of pediatrics says that there is absolutely no scientific evidence that the hpv shot or any other vaccine causes retardation. why in the world would bachmann get herself hung up in this country of words and not being able to explain it? >> dr. bachmann was being the typical extremist opportunist that she has always been. let me just tell you something, ed, this knee jerk kind of statement she made, what she's done is effectively isolated a cohort of women who now are going to be terrified. they're not going to go talk to their doctor about the risk/benefit. they're not going to research

independently. all they heard was that my child or i could become retarded according to bachmann if i take this vaccine. she is a pathetic opportunist. she said that so she could pander to her fringe right wing friends from that party. just like rick perry did when rick perry made it mandatory that people take this vaccine. he was pandering to the money people at merck who didn't give him $5,000, ed, it's more like $500,000 that merck has moved into the coffers through mike toomey and the gop. >> so perry was lying last night? >> absolutely. absolutely he was lying. look at the numbers. he might have personally only gotten $5,000. you look at the money that merck has put in through the chamber of commerce that went to texas politics, went to rick perry and -- you have two extremists here. both sides are equally as crazy. >> heidi harris, i think michele

bachmann has made her point about parents wanting to know if their kids are going to get vaccinated plus the governor of texas has admitted he made a mistake and should have gone to the legislature. why in the world would she go down this road and create this problem? because now this is what people are talking about. they're not talking about protecting the kids. what do you think? >> well, it's interesting. i think as a mother she's concerned about it and rightfully so. of course rick perry is a father and i guess he doesn't have the same concerns. the reality is michele bachmann is not telling parents don't talk to your doctor, don't do this under any circumstances. she expects people with a brain to go to their doctors and discuss it. each parent should do that for their own child's individual case. they shouldn't be having the government tell them one thing or another. a couple years ago we were told we were all going to die from bird flu. we didn't. so there you go. >> mike? >> it's another false choice the republicans have done. they've given a teenager -- think about this. the teenager is given a false choice.

do i want to run the risk of being retarded my entire life or do i want to take my chances of dying with cancer? 4,000 women a year die of cervical cancer. >> if you're not sleeping around you're not going to get hpv. >> you know what's happening here. >> every 13-year-old girl is -- >> your party panders to all the fringe freaks. that's what you've done here. it's another example of republicans -- >> you're assuming every little girl is going to be sleeping with every guy in high school. >> i don't make that assumption. i do make this assumption, i make this assumption. i make the assumption anything comes out of rick perry's mouth or michele bachmann's mouth is done for political opportunity. that's all they understand. you should be ashamed to even defend these two people. you know how crazy they are. >> give me a break. you said she's going to be retarded or get hpv. there's another choice. abstinence. there's a concept. >> heidi, you think that michele bachmann had her