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tv   Morning Joe  MSNBC  September 15, 2011 3:00am-6:01am PDT

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number one story on msnbc.com, the busiest border crossing in the country is closed after scaffolding fell on a dozen cars yesterday in california. we asked what you're doing at the top of the show. rob gifford has some answers. rob? >> gloria asks is there a title to the opening theme music for the show? >> today i'm told we used "get up" by 50 cent. how about another one? >> brad writes i managed to fall into some fiber underwear, and now i'm about to start peeling my skin off to stop the itch. >> i like the back story. why are you up in the attic in your underwear? there's a good story there. "morning joe" starts right now.
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this is the control element that runs it. the actual pump itself is inside my chest. you need power all the time, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. >> what does that mean? >> it means that -- >> put the battery back in. >> cheney's frailty sucking my ability to poke fun at his vile public service record, but why? >> he's more machine now than man. >> yes, yes! that's why! >> good morning. it is thursday, september 15th. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. host of of cnbc's "mad money,"
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jim cramer is here. great to have you on. >> great to be here. >> hi, willie. >> who's in worse shape, jim cramer? boston red sox or the u.s. economy? >> i'll tell ya, one's collapsing so badly that i have to tell you. i don't know what to do. there's no jobs there for the rotation, there's nobody doing anything in the infield, not a lot of fielding. yeah. u.s. economy. >> really? >> yankees. yankees lost last night. >> blew a shot to go up five games. >> but the yankees have got it, right? >> because what? because what? because the texas rangers and c.j. wilson and losing the first round? >> this is where it starts. red sox fans when they see they're going to lose, they start trashing the yankees. >> is there going to be a world series? will there be a world series? >> i don't know. >> halladay last night -- they're untouchable. >> the phillies are untouchable.
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we may actually be embarrassed, willie, here, and we're embarrassed so few times. that when we do sports after the first round of the baseball playoffs, american league championship series, you know, the only two teams whose highlights we've shown all year won't make it they'll be destroyed. hey, as we've said all along, those texas rangers and detroit tigers, teams of destiny. >> ladies and gentlemen, justin verland. >> we've been there since day one. >> we have been with the rangers and the tigers. so anyway, they're both on fumes. gonzalez, okay, they took -- he got out in the seventh inning. you know if he's all right? >> oh, you know, leg, thigh, hamstring. >> what about me? >> 24 hours ago. he's overrated.
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>> it is weather in september. >> did you get those storm windows out? >> okay. >> that was fun to spend the afternoon with you. >> yeah. >> all right. can we talk about jobs since cramer's here? >> sure. >> that would be great. >> go to work. >> republicans out on their own. speaker john boehner is set to deliver his own jobs speech at the economic club in washington today. a week after president obama's jobs addressed the congress. it comes as the president continued his jobs plan push last night. this time taking his push back to washington after several days out on the road. at an awards gala held for the congressional hispanic caucus, the president joked that the group's members, some of whom canceled last week's speech can't seem to avoid him talking about jobs. >> you thought you could escape this by coming to this dinner, but i'm here because we're at a critical time for our country.
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the fight we're having right w now, the fight to put more americans back to work, to make our country stronger in the long run, to prove that we can get something done here in washington, this fight could not be more important for the people in this room, for the latino community, and for millions of americans who need help. >> nobody believes that -- >> what? >> nothing. >> ahead of those remarks, the white house said the president's jobs plan would cut payroll taxes for about 25 million hispanic workers and 250,000 hispanic-owned businesses. earlier in the day, the president wrapped up his jobs tour. and later, during an event in raleigh, the president again asked supporters -- >> what's going on here? >> excuse me. >> no -- >> what? he's selling his plan. you want him to talk about jobs.
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>> i'm glad he's talking about jobs, i am, i think this is what he should do, i'm glad he's doing it. but what if a president talked about jobs and nobody was listening? this is not -- >> maybe you should listen. >> this is not breaking through -- what did you say? this is not cutting through the noise. >> well, now according to reports we hear, he has an issue with house and senate democrats on the jobs. they want to pick it and split it up. yesterday, mr. cramer had an interview with treasury secretary geithner. >> i thought it was an interview that could very well save america. >> you know something? other than the detroit tigers, it's the greatest thing that's happened in this country -- >> and we call it the tigers. >> right up until the first pitch of hal ladahalladay. >> do they have any clear explanation, jim, as to why it's taken them so long to really, really get to the point -- >> we're cueing up the sound bite. >> i would tell you that one of the reasons why is that the
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international financial crisis has got everybody completely distracted. the worries on a daily basis that europe is hanging by a thread has kept our policymakers from being able to figure out some big plan. i'm not excusing them. i'm not excusing geithner, because he's got to be on his game every moninute to create jobs, but the focus is europe. >> let's listen to the interview that changed america. jim cramer. >> what we have done is our president's put together a package which we think has a very powerful mix of tax incentives and investment that would be good for job creation and the economy right now. and we're proposing to make sure it doesn't have long-term deficits. and people will have different views about what's good for growth, and i haven't heard them, but if people got a better idea on growth in the short-term, of course we'd be
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open to that. >> so do you believe it has a "very strong mix?" >> no, actually -- >> is this something that's going to jolt america? the economy? >> no, it can't have that kind of impact because the gop is just going to block anything that involves more taxes. and second, a lot of the things that geithner wants to do and this president want to do seem a little bit unworldly versus people actually in business. i started five businesses, i never started one, not one because i was trying to get a little bit of a break on a payroll tax. these kind of little tinkerings on payroll taxes, uninsurance, are same old, same old -- >> i hear that. so what would you do? >> what do you need? >> i offered a plan to geithner, bit of a canadian plan and it works, canada's economy really terrific. go where the jobs are. instead of trying to stimulate jobs in solar where there aren't any jobs, go to north dakota, go to texas, go to oklahoma, go to
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montana, go to where we do not have enough people to be able to pull out 24 billion barrels of oil, which by the way is more than the reserves and get that oil out of the ground. i know it's fossil, i know fossil is no good, but that's where the jobs are. all they need are trains to get the people there. >> we need jobs. green jobs. >> 3,000 jobs -- >> and we need fossils -- >> guy comes on, he's the president of the western hemisphere, which i always wanted to be. and he looks in the camera and says, listen, i want to pay $120,000 to you, americans, who can get here in north dakota. you don't have to go to college. we want you, $120,000. that guy has a job shortage that can only be equalled by a federal plan to get people to come there because they need to build five railroads, they need to build three pipelines. you know what kind of skilled worker it takes for that. >> you think we're focusing on the wrong kind of jobs right
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now? >> where the jobs need to be created are jobs that need to meet demand. >> where the jobs are. right. you cannot create right now this quarter green jobs out of thin air. if right now you want to turn things around, you can do that for long-term investment, but short-term, mika, we have to go to where the jobs are. >> put your money behind a winning hand. look we've got -- >> i know where the demand is. you put your money where the demand is. >> right, and then you don't have to worry about wasting it. >> you know who you sound like? >> one term senator jim demint. >> ken conrad, one of the most reasonable people -- >> here's senator demint, take a listen. >> i would love to be able to work with the president on something. but he's practicing what we call venture socialism. he's basically taking an approach whereas the government needs to stimulate jobs and i
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know as an employer and you've been an employer, you don't hire someone because the payroll tax is a little lower or you get a $4,000 tax credit. and you certainly don't hire anyone if they're going to tax you more. it's hard for me to listen to him have a jobs plan when it's really just a political program to try to defer the blame of our economy on to other republicans. >> it sounds like about every business person that i've talked to. and it's not just small business owners that are saying this. it's the biggest business owners who will go into the white house and the president will come and will say, hey, why don't you guys hire more people? he says that and they walk out leaving saying this -- you can tell this guy has never hired one person in his life in the private sector. there is a disconnect. and i think one of the greatest disconnects is that you can have companies or small businesses just going out and hiring people if the market doesn't support new hires. >> right.
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and also, it's not payroll tax. there is a health care component. i do care about how much it's going to cost -- i just started another business last year, it's an inn, and it works. and i did care about health c e care, i cared to some degree about fire and safety, but the payroll -- to some degree. >> to some degree! >> the health code. >> all right. >> and, no, what i meant -- fire and safety! to the most important -- i'm running health and safety and fire. >> this is the scene from the dead zone. >> he's working.
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for heaven's sake. >> listen. >> -- the alarm system for heaven sakes, and it's got to work when there's a fire. no, what i mean is that with businesses -- never mind. >> no. >> no, never mind. >> you know what he meant. if you get the fire -- what are those things? >> the extinguishers. >> if you fill those things half up, you can save about $30. >> i'm saying what was the upfront calculus, you know you've got to spend a fortune on fire and safety, you do not think about the employers. you don't think about the payroll tax. i missed -- someone misspoke. >> here's what you do. you stop talking. you stop talking. it's okay. >> willie geist --
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>> but i work downtown now. >> if you lock the doors from the outside, it prevents people from going on lunch breaks, all kind of good things. >> it was my budget. i knew i had to spend a fortune on fire and safety. >> let me ask you a serious question, though. get you off the fire safety question. is there a place in this jobs bill for infrastructure which is at the core of what the president's proposing? is that important? or is that just a short-term fix? roads, bridges -- >> no, that's a good thing. >> stimulus? >> yes, because whenever you have the big construction jobs, you have to have a lot of caterpillar earth movers, which is a company that is hiring and doesn't want to send this stuff overseas. also requires a lot of ancillary businesses. you need steel. the ceo of new corp., it's
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predictable flow of business. it goes over and over and over. infrastructure does matter and there's $2 trillion of it out there. >> you like that aspect? >> that's just great. and i know that our friend chris mathews talks about how infrastructure really does put a lot of people to work, it's also central, makes it so left and right like that. and we need that. >> the thing is, though, if you're just doing infrastructure for a short-term jobs fix, that doesn't make sense. if you're doing it because you need to rebuild the arteries of our economy, that's where it makes sense and it's a win/win. but mike, you and i talk to business people all the time. democrats, mainly, because where we are in new york and boston and washington. the democratic business people mainly that will tell us they supported the president, but they remain -- and we've been talking about this for years -- they remain stunned that this president doesn't understand basic economics.
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he does not -- as far as he may understand it in theory, he does not understand the basic economics of i've got to make payroll in two weeks, osha's breathing down my back, my taxes are higher than they've ever been, and, you know, local, state, et cetera, et cetera. this is what business people always say. i'm going to have to lay off one person. i may have to lay off another next quarter because my kids. and this is what they never understand. because my -- and this is what happens when you learn about economics in books instead of actually running a small business. and the decision isn't i'm going to have to lay off a person next quarter also because of the demand's not there and i'm not getting the right tax incentive, it's i may have to lay off a person next quarter because i can't make my mortgage payment here, my mortgage payment at home and put my second kid through college.
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they just don't seem to have a grasp. they'll say to you something like, well, you know, only 2% of small businesses file as corporations or something like that. it's all mixed up. >> it gets to the larger umbrella question that all of these people bring up in their discussions here, off camera, and it is what is this president's understanding? how would he define capitalism? >> he thinks it is a partnership between labor and capital. it's not a partnership. you'd like it to be in a utopian world, but it's -- capitalism is a group of guys who decide, you know what? i'm going to risk everything and build, i'm going to risk everything and expand. and i think he views it as capitalism is the government working together to help the workers do really well so it's not just the rich people who do well. >> right. and the president wants -- i had a business person say yesterday,
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you know, it's funny, the president wants us to be successful, but to a certain degree. and then he wants the government to step in and -- and again, i'm a guy that said millionaires and billionaires should pay more in taxes, we need to reform this -- >> no argument from them about that. >> no argument about -- and again, it's sort of the general theory. and it's big companies that want to risk it all, but it's also small companies. and i always use this example because it's the best example. if the dentist trying to figure out how to get four chairs in his office instead of three chairs. and if that dentist believes you're going to raise taxes on him or her over the next two years, he or she's not going to do it because her kids start school in three or four years. and if you talk about raising capital gains taxes, and if you're talking about raising all of these other taxes and you have people talking about a war tax and a gas tax and a this tax
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and a that tax, whether we pass them or not, that freezes that dentist in place. that freezes that entrepreneur in place. that freezes everybody in place. >> at the end of the day -- >> that's reality. that's reality. >> at the end of the day, the reality is, you can -- i would think you could give people, employers, small business any kind of tax breaks you want. hire a person, you get $1,500 tax break. but they're not going to do it because at the end of the day when they open the doors, there's no customer. >> three of them were very successful. the last thing they needed was a tax break, i didn't make any money. >> thank goodness it didn't burn down. coming up on "morning joe," we've got the chairman of the budget committee. congressman paul ryan. also dr. zbigniew brzezinski.
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>> yeah. >> all right. >> carl bernstein, best-selling author and time magazine's joe klein, as well. up next -- poor jim -- first look at politico's morning playbook, including how the white house is reacting to the democrats' loss in tuesday's special election. but first, let's go to bill karins. nothing to see here, with a check on the forecast. good morning, everyone. if you're one of those people waiting for summer to end, today's the day for you. much of the country is experiencing the first fall-like day. the big cities in the east, the cool air now in minneapolis and chicago is heading your way. look at the forecast today in the middle of the country. high in kansas city of 61, finally in dallas, we're cooling it off. now have we're starting off warm this morning from d.c., northward to new york and boston. but the rain will move in during the middle of the day and late in the morning and will end the
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day much cooler and windier as the skies will clear out. so bring the umbrella today. not going to rain all day, but it will for a period, and temperatures will be dropping, you'll experience it later on today. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. where'd ya go? there you are. there you go. [ female announcer ] you always went for the tall, dark, handsome types. so who'd have ever thought the love of your life... would be short and bald? having a baby changes everything. okay, so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol
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cool bike. because the business with the best technology rules. it's 24 past the hour. sun's coming up over new york city. >> quite a shot there. >> the morning papers, "washington post," the yearlong investigation has concluded that bp's efforts to limit cost on the mile-deep well in the gulf of mexico contributed to the explosion last year that killed 11 workers and sank the deepwater horizon drilling rig. and nasa is unveiling plans for a new manned rocket to replace the extinct shuttle
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program. the $18 billion design will begin unmanned test flights in 2017. with the goal of taking astronauts deeper than ever into space by 2021. >> "new york times," college football teams are increasingly abandoning traditional uniforms. >> here we go. >> changing week to week. fashion jerseys, helmets, and shoes in the pursuit of saving dollars. >> a maryland man vomited all over that helmet. turning to the parade of papers. times union, american and canadian officials are working to establish a new law enforcement program for police on both sides of the border. they're going to be fighting crimes ranging from high-grade marijuana trafficking to terror threats. >> barnacle joe, take a listen. a florida plastic surgeon is opening a bank, so patients who have fat removed during liposuction can store it for future use. from the leg or stomach to the face or breast is usually done at the same time, but the new bank will allow patients --
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>> i need more fat -- >> for use at a later date. >> the man who really taught me about the fat injections was -- >> he looks like a million bucks. >> he used to weigh 438 pounds when i met him in 1995, look at him now. >> wow. >> i have it stored in my garage in oshkosh. >> christmas vacationing, he visits his fat. >> that is -- >> he -- >> disgusting, stop. stop! >> you finished my thought. >> people are waking up. you are disgusting! seriously. >> that's awful. i'm sorry. you stop. turn away. we're sorry.
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>> with a look at the politico playbook. hello, jim. >> hello, how are you? >> i'm doing well. let's pretend that never happened and start over. >> i'm going to be sick. >> i often do that after talking to joe. hit the reset button. let's talk about the new york nine special elections. we've got some spin coming out of the white house saying, you know what? not much to see here between new york and nevada. jay carney said this off camera yesterday on air force one. special elections are often unique in their outcomes do not tell you much about future regularly scheduled elections. i'm sure that you and everyone else here did not write after democrats won all the special elections in 2009 and 2010 that that foretold a certain outcome for the 2010 midterms. does he got a point there, jim? or is that spin? >> i think it's the only part of their spin that is tethered to reality. yes, you can't tell what's going to happen in 2012 by what happened yesterday. but the idea this is not a
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massive blow to this presidency is crazy. look at all the quotes in every single newspaper this morning. you have democrat after democrat saying that the party should be in a panic. you have members of congress openly criticizing the president. you have james carville writing an op-ed saying it's time to fire people inside the white house that things are so bad. you have bill burton, your former top communications guy saying that things are awful for the party and that obama can't win unless things change. like that's bad news. you're losing power with your own base much less independents and republicans. >> yeah, you said it, jim, bill burton who works in the white house and press shop came out yesterday and said "democrats should be very nervous." that coming from inside the obama team. >> we have breaking news on twitter. benjamin strong, can you say -- and this is now a hash tag, i think it's going to be a trending topic, cheese curds. save your fat. >> why are you down on cheese curds?
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they're one of the healthiest things you can eat. mika has them every weekend. >> i love cheese curds. >> no. >> i think this benjamin strong on twitter is just saying he's a little concerned that you're actually saving your fat from these liposuction clinics to make the cheese curds. and then, willie -- >> be quiet. stop! what can i do to stop him? >> he's saying this. >> joe -- >> the economy is melting and you're fixated on cheese curds. >> no, i'm not. listen, i'm just reporting. you decide. all i know is that you're right, though. >> if you deep fry the fat. >> deep fry the fat, deep fry the cheese curd, which is not all fat. >> stop it. >> do you put cheese curds with them? >> no. >> a little dipping sauce.
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you're in business. >> you can't even tell. >> may owe. jim, i'm really sorry about all this. >> i'm used to it. on twitter. >> what does that mean? >> i don't know, that's a new thing. you've really screwed up. >> i got red tagged? >> no, i got red tagged by you, apparently. >> once you deep fry it, you can no longer tell it's human fat. >> it tastes like anything else, like a french fry. >> are we on tv right now? >> you know what? everybody needs to -- >> moving on. what's next? let's do one more topic. jim, this is embarrassing, i'm sorry. it's impossible to embarrass me. in a politico piece this morning, some democrats turning on president obama. is that really happening? >> come on, no. >> come on. >> i think his biggest problem is that democrats are turning on him. it's happening even in blue states. >> no.
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>> and look at 4:00 this morning in virginia. there's a poll out at 4:00 this morning in virginia, 40% favorable rating among independents, 29%. those are the numbers that have the white house rattled looking at 2012, not necessarily just the results from new york. >> you politico, report the bad news on your president. support your president no matter what. >> cheese curds. >> cheese curds. >> jim, this has been a hell of a segment. put this on your resume. >> thank you, jim. when you get the gift bag, just give it to your neighbor. >> all right, jim. thanks. sports next. yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins.
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fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory. hey, jessica, jerry neumann with a policy question. jerry, how are you doing? fine, i just got a little fender bender. oh, jerry, i'm so sorry. i would love to help but remember, you dropped us last month. yeah, you know it's funny.
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it only took 15 minutes to sign up for that new auto insurance company but it's taken a lot longer to hear back. is your car up a pole again? [ crying ] i miss you, jessica! jerry, are you crying? no, i just, i bit my tongue. [ male announcer ] get to a better state. state farm. ♪ whoa! hey! [ dog barks, growls ] ♪ whoa, watch out, little man. ♪ [ male announcer ] when you take away the worry, it's easy to enjoy the ride. hey, bud. hey, dad. [ male announcer ] introducing cadillac shield. the most comprehensive suite of owner benefits offered by any luxury auto maker in the world. ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪
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all right. time for sports in honor of jim cramer being here. we begin with the best team in baseball. the philadelphia phillies. the first team to clinch a playoff spot. a 1-0 win last night over houston and the astros. roy halladay untouchable, seven strikeouts over nine scoreless innings. phillies celebrates their fifth straight trip to the post season and to the rest of the league, good luck beating that pitching staff. how good are their pitchers? >> the big debate in philadelphia is whether roy
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oswalt or worley should be part of the rotation. you could argue -- he had the best july of any pitcher -- then followed an unbelievable august. we are putting guys in the bullpen who were better starters than anybody on the list. >> could you loan some to the sox or yankees? >> the best pitchers ever. >> meanwhile across the state of pennsylvania, the pittsburgh pirates lost to the cardinals, 3-2. we tell you this because it clinches pittsburgh's 19th consecutive losing season and that's a record for a major league franchise. they wept to the nlcs way back in 1992. how long was that? barry bonds was skinny, that's how long ago it was. >> barry bonds' head was only like a 7 3/4 back then, and now it's a 9. the braves up by 4 1/2. >> braves have it. >> tony la russa go home.
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>> braves' bullpen may be the most steady bullpen i've seen. >> who? >> you talk about shutdown relievers. >> they're going to be tough in the playoffs. >> i think you're absolutely right. that's a sleeper team i'd be careful about. >> the american league, red sox trying to make up ground on the yankees in the a.l. east. and the wild card taking up the jays at fenway. adam lowen scores a couple of runs, so the blue jays come back to beat the sox 5-4, boston now 3-10 in the month of december. with the boston loss, the yankees then had the chance to extend their four-game lead in the division. taking on the mariners, bottom of the 12th, tied at 1, a walk-off home run off cory wade, the mariners beat the yankees. yankees blow a shot to go up five. the rays, good news for red sox fans, lost yesterday. here are your standings, yankees up four on the sox, rays eight
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games back, four behind boston for the wild card. >> you know, mike, what team have i been calling the little engine -- >> detroit tigers. >> i've been saying -- >> your guy. >> maybe they don't have the biggest payroll, but you know what, willie, what they don't have in payroll, they make up in heart. i think i can. >> it's about the rebirth of a city. >> the rebirth of a city. and willie, dare i say, perhaps, in the dark days of 2011, maybe a rebirth of a nation? >> here's how they do it. >> the verlander tattoo. the red hot detroit tigers, for their 12th consecutive play. the catcher comes up with a two-run home run. tigers tie the game in the fifth. tigers come back to win 6-5, they need two more innings to clench the a.l. central.
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>> the stadiums, it drives my crazy, the phillies will go on the road and we'll see ncc high school games have more people. what is it with some of these cities? they don't want to come out and see the greatest game. >> it's september, a lot of teams -- >> like houston. >> i know, when i was growing up, hank aaron's coming to town. go see halladay pitch. it's electric, like seeing gibson pitch, colfax pitch. you don't have to be a winning team to go see a winning team. i love going to games so much. >> and i love -- >> i love the game. i love the tigers. >> you've always loved the tigers. >> the rangers. >> we talked about people always complain, we're talking about the rangers and the tigers too much every day, i love these kids from mid market. >> fabulous. >> they play the game for free. >> cliff lee. >> i think i can. the engine that could. >> he's one of the highest paid people in majors. that guy would work for free.
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>> one sound bite here from tom brady. tom brady with a little advice from patriot fans. cut your hair. >> yeah. start drinking early. get nice and rowdy. come out here and cheer for the home team. >> those 4:15 starts are nice. >> 11:30 the box is open to 12:00, and by the time the game starts, you have no clue what's happening. >> 8:00 a.m., i'm there, start up the grill. >> college. college. >> i've got my bledsoe shirt on. >> you've never been to a patriots game in your life. >> coming up -- >> spring training, super bowl
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sunday when the patriots are there. >> rick perry out to dinner last night. >> they go good together. hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices? sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process
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you don't want to do that? >> let's not do that. can't we talk -- you know what? that's what makes this show the highest-rated show in the history of television. you've got "american idol" first, but we usually are above that. that notre dame upset. for some reason, i started cheering for notre dame. tradition, and i've heard it's a great institution, great community. but, mike barnacle, they're just a horrific loss to michigan this past weekend. they haven't been good in a long time.
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is it true that they're just not that good because the recruiting standards are high? or have they just lost their way? >> well, i think it's partially true. the academic note is higher than it is at a lot of big football schools. they also have a problem in that they have not hired in terms of recruiting the best coaches that they could have gotten. and it takes -- >> why is that? >> this kelly guy screaming on the sidelines. >> that's not good. that is not good. if you've got a fabulous athlete, son, is a fabulous athlete, you don't want to think of your kid playing college football and having the coach follow them down the sideline on national television. >> on national tv. >> charlie weiss couldn't recruit to save his life. >> and it's tough recruiting at notre dame, joe, because you've got to convince the guy, look, you're coming to the middle of nowhere, indiana, not a whole lot going on other than this
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fabulous institution. >> jim cramer, your point? >> well, you are on nbc every saturday, the greatest showcase on earth if you want to play pro. >> no doubt, charlie weiss was seen as a huge coup when they got him. >> he didn't talk to enough people. >> it's been 15 years since they've been in the thick of any kind of national title. >> alabama had the same problem. they kept hiring coaches. a wonderful man and a great quarterback coach. but was he ready to coach alabama? no, and you can go down the list of these people who weren't ready. it took alabama getting to the bottom. when you had rodriguez even saying no to him to finally say, okay, all of these good old boys that have been running the program for years, we're going to brush them aside and bring in a strong leader. and they brought in a saving. and if you're notre dame, why are you getting guys like -- why
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don't you get urban myer? you've got to get a great football coach and tell everybody up there you're not in charge anymore. you've got one guy, and he answers to the president of the university. >> well, i think charlie weiss was supposed to be that guy. i'm coming from the nfl, you can't tell me anything. and i think to some degree he was that guy -- >> that's his problem. that was his problem. >> but you can be the greatest coach in the world, they don't get the best players anymore. the best players go to alabama, florida, usc. those are the premium -- >> why? is it all academics? >> part of it is academics. but they had those academics 20, 30 years ago. >> if i'm a father or a mother of a 17-year-old kid who is the best quarterback in america and myer is coaching at notre dame and i go, okay, wait a second, my son can be coached by one of the best coaches in america, a great guy, a great quarterback coach, he's going to the best institution, he's going to be
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taken care of by the small community up there, and i get to watch him every sunday on nbc? i mean, forget the network. and he's got a great -- my son is going to notre dame. oklahoma, usc, or alabama comes calling, if they're from the midwest, he's going to notre dame. >> my friends recruited to notre dame in the last few years, it's been clear that the discussion between parents and kids, you know they stepped up the academic standards in the last few years. >> that is a real problem? >> i think it's a real problem. because when you go to these schools and you have to go to school, you'd rather go to a place that you don't. >> so let me ask you this, willie geist. and over the past five years, my conference, the sec has become dominant. saw alabama against penn state, i absolutely loved penn state, i loved their people, i love their coach. they are a great program, a great institution. i can't say enough great things about penn state. and yet i was watching the game
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and it was evident half way through the first quarter that big ten football, midwest football is just highly inferior to sec football. and i don't say this with any pride. i'm curious, what happened to the big ten? what happened to midwest football? what happened to notre dame, michigan, ohio state's still good. but you put ohio state against florida or any team or lsu, they're going to kill them. >> it's speed. if you watch a usc team, they're fast. watch an sec team, alabama, or auburn, they're fast. the big ten teams aren't as fast. and it's proven out. we'll look at every bowl game where the sec plays a big ten team. they've got faster guys. speed kills and they spread out the field. >> you talk to nfl coaches all the time. it's the speed of the game. if you're going to a big ten school, are you not going to be
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as easily drafted? because you see -- >> that's not necessarily true. if you're a great individual player -- >> i'm going to get a ticket. >> but why can't -- if you're michigan, why can't you recruit the fastest players in america? >> they have one of them, a quarterback. >> i like him. >> great athlete. >> also, you have to include the factors, money in this. the sec schools, the enormous revenues that those programs attract. the university of florida -- >> ohio state and michigan make a lot of money. >> okay. i hope you boys are happy. it's a must read by the way -- >> i have one more thing to say. >> what's next? >> let me tell you something, i could not believe they started their season against elan. >> seriously? >> great school to go to. >> yeah. >> the fighting thespians.
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>> northeasterners go there. very hot. >> do you have any stories about amish people in. >> i do. [ kristy ] my mom is well...weird. she won't eat eggs without hot sauce.
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it's time. >> absolute news you can't use. donald trump's latest new york dinner date for the republican political start.?;; trump took sarah palin out. $2 slice of pizza in time
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square. >> yeah. >> wouldn't have been our first choice, but a nice gesture. >> with rick perry in new york last night, where did the donald take him? the fancy, expensive located in the trump apartment building on central park. not for a texas guy. so trump goes from the $2 slice of pizza with sarah palin to a restaurant that's costing the average guest $127. per person for dinner. so why did perry join trump? >> we're just going to be talking about, you know, how to create jobs in america. donald trump's pretty good about creating jobs, and i've got to think donald's got some advice for me. >> fair enough. >> fair enough. >> but when you think of hiring, i'm not sure hire is the word -- >> you're hired. you're hired? that's what he says, right? >> you're fired.
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christine, you're fired. you're fired. you're fired. you're fired. heidi, you're fired. christine, you're fired. you're fired! get out, everybody. out. >> cramer, you were there when he fired gene simmons. >> yeah, it was great. he wanted to be off, he had other things to do. there was no reason for him to be fired. but he really just in the board room strapped the bomb to his leg. >> unbelievable. >> jim cramer. one more story for you here. >> you know who's fabulous? >> who? >> milania. >> great mom. oh, my gosh. >> a gentleman got pinched by an suv. eight amish guys got arrested. they're driving their horses and buggies without that triangular orange reflector. >> you can't do that! >> they were pulled over, refused to pay the fine, they say, because their religion prevents them from wearing or
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displaying bright colors. they said rather than violate the religious principles, they would go to jail, so to jail they go. >> they're from the amish basketball team? >> look at the guy on the right. >> they're all like 7 feet tall. >> they could be in jail for up to ten days. and you'll notice they're not wearing orange jump suits. they refused though, as well. they can't wear bright -- the older gentleman, the bald with the grumpy face. >> come on, now. that's religious persecution. >> upper right. hold it, hold it. >> all right. disgrace. okay. >> coming up next, best-selling author carl bernstein and chuck todd. "morning joe" coming right back. [ male announcer ] what if we told you that cadillac borrowed technology from ferrari to develop its suspension system? or what if we told you that ferrari borrowed technology
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there is no chance that the major countries of europe will let their institutions be at risk. there is not a chance. >> take off the table lehman. >> of course not. there's not a chance of that. i remember the chance of germany saying before the united states repeatedly. he said we are not going to have a lehman brothers. >> welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnacle and jim cramer still with us. joining the table, best-selling author and award-winning journalist carl bernstein joining the conversation this morning.
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good to have you onboard. shall we start with the polls? >> yeah, let's do some polls. the president, obviously, having a lot of problems. but you look at some of the polls, and we've talked about this for a long time. considering where unemployment is -- >> exactly. >> considering where right track, wrong track polling is, a president with these numbers, you would think they'd be down in the 30s like george w. bush. this president still holding pretty strong in a lot of these polls. and especially, the latest polls have come out and match-up with republicans. i don't know that republicans have somebody out there that can beat this president. >> and that's an interesting conversation, as well. especially when we get to the latest news about rick perry. a new poll shows president ob a obama's approval rating getting a small lift after unveiling his jobs plan last week. showing 47% say they approve of president obama after proposing a $447 billion plan last thursday. but when asked about the direction of the country, the
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same poll shows 68% think the country's on the wrong track. however, the poll also shows that president obama's still ahead of all of his potential republican presidential rivals. when matched up with mitt romney, 49% favor obama, 43% favor romney. let's just stop there. and i mean, does that surprise you to an extent? what does that mean for mitt romney? >> well, you would think with unemployment where it is with the right track, wrong track where it is, that the republicans would have a candidate that would be ahead of this president. but carl bernstein, and neither side likes this, but from the beginning, i've compared this president in terms of likability to ronald reagan. who as you know, had a rough 1982, a rough 1983, but people still were rooting for the guy. i've had a sense that americans
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are rooting for this guy even if they think he hasn't focused enough on jobs. he has a resilience, president obama, that i think will help him out over the next year. >> he has a resilience and he's got a political mind. for instance, he's got a jobs bill up there with no chance of really passing. and at the same time, it's getting him up in the polls. those polls are a snapshot. they're a snapshot of of today, nothing more. but he likes that snapshot a lot more than where he was a few weeks ago, i think. the real question is whether he can move the congress in any way during this political period. and the evidence is mounting up that he really is not going to be able to. and how that will play in the election is the big question. >> what do you make of all of the stories that politico's talking about today? the "new york times" talked about it two days ago, of the internal dissent among
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democrats. the "new york times" talked about how democrats on the hill are in open revolt. this morning, politico's talking about a democratic call yesterday where everybody was blaming the president. and yet, he's sitting at 47%. republicans were more loyal to bush when he was at 28% than democrats are to this president. >> members of congress are loyal to themselves. >> yes, they are. >> that's a terrible point, and that's the problem of the country. they put their own interests above the national interest, we're seeing it now with the economic situation. obama is trying to deal with national problems. these guys are dealing with their reelection problems. they've never loved him, they think he's been late to the table on an awful lot of issues. they're not wrong about that necessarily. they see they're going to lose the house by good margin. they don't think they can hold the senate. they certainly are not going to be able to do something in the senate with 60 votes needed.
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so the party is in bad shape. they're worried and at the same time, they also understand that there's a charade going on about this jobs bill. it can't pass. and meanwhile, you've got the committee of 12 sitting and governing to some extent. and there's a charade going on about that. that charade is that they're liable to come up with something meaningful, they're going to kick the can again. >> let's go through some more numbers and i'd love to get mike and jim's take on what's going on. >> right. i think one of the questions here is it the president's resilience or the republican field competing with texas governor rick perry, 50% choose obama while 42% say perry. next, congressman ron paul, obama gets 49%, paul's 42%. and when facing utah governor jon huntsman, 51% back obama, 37% go with huntsman. and with a match-up with michele
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bauchmann, obama leads 54% to her 36%. >> you know, mike, it's just a snapshot. just like yesterday's election was just a snapshot or tuesday's election. but i will say it again, as i've been saying, we've been critical of this president on jobs from day one. and yet, we've also said from day one, he has a resilience politically. i sense middle america given the opportunity would like to vote for him again because -- his approval numbers stay up there. these numbers look good. but there seems to be a disconnect between these numbers and some of the state numbers. what's going on here? >> i think if you walk around and if you listen to people when you're putting gas in your car or you're coming through the checkout line of the grocery store, you find the president's strongest asset is that people think he is a reasonable man in
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unreasonable times confronted by a totally out of control congress. >> yeah. >> and they've given him the benefit of the doubt. at least he's trying, they'll tell you. >> jim cramer? >> yeah, i think that's right. you still hear, incredibly this far along in the presidency, dealt a really bad hand, still hear that, and no one seems to begrudge him. and you like the guy. you like him. you really hope that someone in the republican party agrees with him so he can get something done. he's got ideas, they don't. look, i found myself succumbing to the view often because there's the obstructionist, and then there's this guy trying. >> that's a gross simplification. you're talking like a man who doesn't put fire detectors in his own -- >> i spend a fortune on fire extinguishe extinguishers. >> the republican party does have plans, but when they put the plans out like paul ryan's plan, they get savaged.
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>> the american people hate rich people. that's happened. there are a lot of people feel like obama that the rich got a really great ride and it's time for everybody else. obama taps into that every single day. now, i think personally one-on-one -- >> do you think that's good for the economy? >> no, reagan always said everyone wants to be rich, let's give them the opportunity. there is a belief that this country was hijacked by business. it's not something i believe, but i hear it all the time from people who call in on my show. and they feel that obama is sensitive to their needs that the rich got a run, now it's everybody else's turn. >> let's go to capitol hill right now, republican congressman and chairman. >> no. we're not going there. >> the budget committee reference, paul ryan, paul, it's always great to talk to you. let's talk about the jobs bill. >> good morning. >> good morning. how you guys doing? >> does this jobs bill have anything in it that you think could create jobs in your home state?
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>> any compromise here? >> say that again, mika. >> any compromise here? >> well, the infrastructure, i think you were talking about that earlier. that does work, obviously. and we've been planning long this fall for doing our transportation bill. the problem with that is it takes a long time to get that through the pipeline. that's not instant jobs like some people try to market it as. but obviously infrastructure does create jobs. i don't think you can deny that. what we don't like is repeating mistakes. look, bush tried temporary tax rebates, obama tried temporary tax rebates and they have proven not to create jobs. all this temporary booster shock stimulus didn't work on the stimulus package, didn't work when the last administration tried these things. we don't want to go with ideas that have proven to fail, we want to go with ideas that have proven to succeed. i think tax reform is the key. and what i liked about the president's speech, he had a sentence or two dedicated toward cleaning up our tax system. here's the deal, joe, i spent the month of august talking to
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employers. talking to small business people saying give us certainty. these temporary shots don't do anything for me because i need to plan for the future. and when i don't know what my tax rates, what the regulations and all these things about the cost of business are going to be in the future, that messes me up. so they need certainty and that's why i think tax reform. right now, they're facing a steep tax increase in 2013, this new stimulus package, the president's pushing has another tax increase in 2013 built into it. that encourages destabilization. that encourages more uncertainty. so let's deal with certainty on regulation, certainty on taxes. i think tax reform is the key. go to my website and i spell out very clearly how i think we can create jobs. and what i like about this idea, there are a lot of democrats who agree with us. >> i was just going to say, the president's talking about tax reform, you're talking about tax reform. you go to the hill, democrats and republicans alike are talking about it. this could be an ice breaker.
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this could be a way to get past the stalemate that's been going on in washington for the past year. what's the likelihood? >> well, it's not going to be for a lack of our trying. so i really think we have a shot at this. where i think it's less likely is on individual side of the tax code because the president really seems to be clinging to this class warfare which also hits the success of small businesses, the subchapter s corporations. but on the corporate side, he seems to be open-minded from what i can tell on tax reform. and i say get rid of -- you mentioned crony capitalism. >> yeah, sarah palin. >> but republicans and democrats have been doing this, and we've got to stop kicking winners and losers in the tax code. lower the tax rates and give businesses certainty and make us more competitive internationally so we can compete and give
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businesses the confidence and certainty -- >> you believe that would raise more revenue, right, paul? >> yeah, i think it would raise more revenue because it'd bring people back to work. so we need to have a simple, competitive, fair tax system. and our businesses are looking for that kind of certainty. there are a lot of democrats around here for this. and the president has said positive things about this. that's where i think we have a shot. >> jim cramer's here. >> when you form a business, i think the biggest worry, how much will it cost to take care of health care? for your employees. and we know that went up so much more with obama care versus whatever they tinker with the employment. isn't it possible that unless you scrap obama care there is no certainty at all in how much it costs to hire a person? >> you're singing my song, jim. that is among the biggest concerns i've heard from businesses because they have no idea how to measure the cost of this. they haven't made a decision of whether they keep health care
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for their employees or drop health care for their employees. then they have all of these energy regulations, new financial services regulations, a credit crunch from the local community bank. all of those things are producing more uncertainty. so, yes, but let's deal with these issues. i think taxes are a huge source of uncertainty. we can deal with that. and then like you say, these big-ticket items like health care, which i don't think the president can put his health care bill on the table this year. i don't think we're going to be able to address that problem this year because i don't think the president's interested in relooking at that issue. >> congressman, isn't that the real point? i've looked at some of the republican talking points similar to what you're saying that the idea is indeed that it can't be done before the election? everybody, there's a kind of consensus around the need for tax reform, but if it's kick the can once again past the election, it gives the republicans the opportunity to craft a number of reforms that
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they regard as essential, especially in terms of tax reduction as opposed to what the democrats would like to see now? >> go to my website, budget.house.gov, you'll see i'm trying to make a pitch for doing this now. >> any chance of it happening now? >> i'd like to think so. look, you have to ask the democrats. we believe in this. we're willing to move on legislation on this. i worked for the fiscal commission to move these ideas. >> but given what's necessary in terms of the tables, omb, the office of management and budget looking at all of this, is it remotely possible that you can do anything before the election? i would say no. >> well, look, on tax reform, probably not on individuals because i think we have a difference on opinion of how best to do that. but on business tax reform, i really do like to hold the idea that we could get something done on this, and i think that would be really good for jobs. but on the other things, like what cramer was talking about, health care, i don't think the president's going to put that idea on the table. there are a lot of jobs
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problems. a lot of policies costing us jobs that will not be addressed because of a huge difference in opinion on issues like health care. but i am not going to throw in the towel on the idea of getting business tax reform done. so let's get moving on this. >> that's right. that was carl bernstein. we are going to mike barnacle right now. >> maybe. >> let me ask you off of that answer, give me three or four things -- three or four items today within the tax code that you could walk across the hall to steny hoyer, nancy pelosi, and say we can all agree on these three or four things. what would they be? >> all the crony capitalism, the industrial policy. we're trying to subsidize select businesses or industries, renewable, energy, you name it. the way i look at this is get rid of all of those special interest provisions. and then a broader base, give
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businesses a time to transition in exchange for lowering the rates. the rest of the world taxes at 25% on average, we're at 39.2% when you add in state and local taxes. it makes us uncompetitive when we tax our businesses a lot more than our foreign competitors are taxing theirs. >> how do you explain to your constituents, though, paul, when you go home. if you say our corporate tax rate is higher than the rest of the world, we're at 39%. and yet, the largest corporations in america pay 0% in taxes. how do -- >> look at ge. ge's the poster child of this thing because they've used all these loopholes. >> that's correct. >> there are many other businesses that don't get to do that that pay that much higher -- u.p.s. paid a 34% tax rate and their competitor dhl paid a 47% tax rate. let's stop picking winners like ge because you get the same amount of losers. >> does that also go to millionaires and billionaires?
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i think we're probably, you and i ideologically are in line on spending and taxes. i wonder if you agree with me that it is wrong let's say for a secretary or teacher to pay 25% in taxes while on average millionaires and billionaires because of being able to hire the best accountants pay 8%. do you agree that is morally wrong? >> so going over to the individual side, the people who use all the tax shelters, the loopholes on the individual side of the tax code are the top 1%. that means for every dollar it's taxed at zero, take away the tax shelter, lower everybody's tax rates, most file as individuals, then that money's getting taxed, but across the board at a fair rate so that no matter if you're a business or person, the amount of money you make, you pay the same level of taxes as the next guy or next business who makes the same amount of money. >> we're talking about -- but
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paul, one thing that americans may not understand is that when you talk about lowering tax rates, they'll say -- a lot of americans say, well, millionaires are already paying too little. what you're actually talking about if you get rid of the tax loopholes. this is an important point. if warren buffett is paying 14% in taxes right now, you take away the loopholes and let's say his tax rate goes to 25% instead of being advertised at 39.6%, warren buffett will be paying more taxes -- >> that's my point. >> millionaires and billionaires will be paying more taxes with an advertised 25% tax rate that is a real tax rate. >> exactly. exactly. because guys like warren buffett, take away the tax shelter, lower the taxes and you'll get 25% of something which you were getting zero of something before. it's clean, it's simple, and competitive. >> remember --
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>> it is such garbage. and i'm sure you feel the same way i do, paul, on this. well, i want to pay that tax rate. i don't need -- of course warren buffett doesn't need the tax cuts because he pays 14% in taxes while his secretary pays 25% in taxes and, by the way, the next time warren buffett goes on tv and says make me pay more taxes, i suggest, paul ryan, you send him a letter and give him the address to the irs, the treasury department in washington, d.c. and calculate out how much warren buffett needs to pay if he really wants to pay 39.6%. >> good idea. i'll write that down. the point, though, don't forget this point. most of our jobs come from small businesses who file as individuals. and right now, if we keep raising that tax rate, which in 2013, the effective tax rate goes to 44.8%, that crushes small businesses, makes it uncompetitive to compete in the global economy. get rid of the loopholes, lower
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the tax rates, get jobs. >> one of the things that does make me angry when we start having these discussions on taxes, you'll have people saying raise the tax rates, get rid of the bush tax cuts. what makes me angry, though, the people that catches are people who make $250,000. it doesn't catch the millionaires -- >> no. >> we have this false conversation about taxes in america. >> it's been going on for 25 years. and what happens is each time there's a bill that passes these two houses of congress, it is lawyered to death. and within six months there are subsidies, loopholes. and is congressman ryan and his fellas down there craft a bill that is airtight and six months later does not -- paul ryan, that's the question. can you write a bill -- can you write a bill that warren buffett's lawyers and tax attorneys can't go through like swiss cheese in six months?
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>> yes. absolutely we can do that. >> good luck. >> and what happens when congress -- what happens when the congressman from texas introduces a subsidy six months later? >> that's the problem. that's a problem. >> why can't you guys and women get together and say we're not going to permit our fellows to do this anymore. we're going to put the national interest above that of our individual districts. we're going to have caucus meeting. >> come on, ryan. >> i agree with that. you can never fully tie the hands of a future congress, but this is why people say do a flat tax type system because you get the country involved in keeping the loopholes out because their tax rates go up. it's a tradeoff. more loopholes or higher tax rates. let's get rid of the loopholes and get the country engaged to prevent congress from playing crony capitalism or picking winners or losers in the future. >> congressman paul ryan -- >> thank you. >> good luck. thank you very much.
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coming up a bit later -- >> do you think we should warn him about cramer's -- >> no, we'll let it go. coming up next, chuck todd. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] your hard work has paid off. and you want to pass along as much as possible to future generations. at northern trust, we know what works and what doesn't. as one of the nation's largest wealth managers, we can help you manage the complexities of transferring wealth. seeking to minimize taxes while helping maximize what's passed along. because you just never know how big those future generations might be. ♪ expertise matters. find it at northern trust.
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>> what do you say to them? >> you're wrong, and let me explain why i said that. it's not obama care. our bill was about 8% of our population that was uninsured. 8% uninsured, nothing changed for the other 92%. so the -- what's wrong with
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obama care? his bill's about 100% of the people. he wants to take over health care for everybody. that's wrong. that's number one. number two, president obama raised taxes by $500 billion. we didn't raise taxes, his tax increase is one of the reasons this economy hasn't rebooted. and that's wrong. and number three, he cut medicare. >> 26 past the hour. live look at the white house. with us now, chief white house correspondent and host of msnbc "the daily rundown." >> i can't let that last statement go. i cannot let that last statement go by. >> so mitt romney who is trying to prove that he is more conservative than anybody else and that obama care was different than romney care actually defends romney care by saying that he didn't cut the program that causes the greatest threat to america's long-term fiscal health.
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so mitt romney now is the great defender of the status quo of medicare. politics is funny, isn't it? >> reporter: and it is, and it's funny you say that. i remember during the whole health care thing when republicans were attacking the president for trying to cut medicare to find some money to pay for his health care plan. i'msw3 thinking, you have a democrat that's trying to cut medicare, that's trying to slow the growth of of the current form of medicare and you're fighting that? >> they used it against him in 2010, used it against house democrats in 2010. >> and it was -- this was a nixon goes to china moment you might be missing here, guys. >> medicare, make no mistake, my mom depends on it, millions of americans depend on it. it is one of the most critical programs to -- it is the most critical program to seniors. and yet, it is -- it's got to be reformed. it's growing at an unsustainable
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rate. and mitt romney sounds like, well, he sounds like the dccc after new york 26. >> well, i do think the romney plan going forward here against perry. i think hitting perry from the right doesn't work. i think -- the idea of that somehow mitt romney's going to make himself look more conservative than rick perry to voters, i just think is not very plausible. but, if romney can make perry seem unelectable in a general and make himself seem the most electable of the two, i think that's the approach. he is setting himself and finally finding a voice on social security and medicare to some conservatives i think makes romney sound like a democrat in the way he's -- >> he's the defender of the largest entitlement programs in america. >> i think it's all designed to make perry seem unelectable. at this point.
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that's his best path to the nomination. >> well, speaking of plans, some here on the set don't think the president's jobs plan is resinating. is it? >> hey, well, i think the short answer is no. look at the hand wringing this morning. we knew the hand wringing was going to happen. pretty quickly when -- whether it was based on what happened in new york 09 or the poll numbers that came out. but to have the string of democratic senators to come out and tell the "new york times," well, you know, joe manchin, this thing seems too big. and casey saying i'd like to deal with peace mail. both up for reelection. so that is not a good sign. here the president three days ago was trying to push this idea. hey, take the whole thing. look at what economists are saying. they are saying it could raise
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gdp by two points. and now his own party doesn't want to take it up as a whole bill. in a moment at a time when the campaign -- the obama campaign is desperate to have him seen as a tough leader again, you don't want to be rolled by your own party. >> why is it no fear of this president among democrats? no fear at all. >> it's -- i don't know. uh i mean -- there isn't. it's not his style. i think there was fear a little bit here when rahm was here. rahm had a little bit of that. that's not -- that's not who president obama is. he doesn't -- he's not going to govern by -- i don't think he's ever going to be that type of politician. they'll always push back and say, he's tough, well, he survived chicago. but he never had to -- he never did get into that mess. he was always very careful to stay out of that mess. it's not the type of politician he is. i think that's what made him
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appealing to so many people early on and now it's frustrating some of his base supporters. >> chuck, some of what i heard initially from the president, the jobs, don't want to completely eliminate this idea, seem to be embraced by the republicans. anything that made it so employers want to hire. is that dead too? >> reporter: no, i think -- look, i hate to be -- the cynical side of me says this. and we've got this boehner speech today. he'll at least give a hint at some of the things he'll embrace that the president is into. but it seems to me that republicans are looking for the bare minimum that they can support so that it looks like they're not being obstructionists. and at the same time, the white house is looking and kind of hoping a majority gets -- they'd like to see it pass, but if it doesn't, they're ready to pick a fight. >> the problem is, of course -- this morning, the democrats are the ones that are in the "new
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york times." >> i don't think the white house ever thought this could pass, do you, chuck? >> reporter: no, i think they needed something i don't think they thought it was going to pass at all. but they surrounded -- essentially they knew they had to extend the payroll tax cut. there's no way you're going to -- the perception of raising taxes on middle-income americans by $1,500. so the question was, could they surround that piece of legislation with something more that they could create? >> so chuck, we've got to go, but in 15 seconds or less, what's wrong with notre dame football? >> reporter: i think that honestly i've always thought that they listen to recruiting services too much because they're the only ones that think some of these guys are four-star recruits. they've got to rethink the whole way they recruit. and i thought brian kelly was the right kind of guy to be there. notre dame fans ought to give the guy some time.
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i know they're all over him. just a guy. give the guy a year or two. the recruiting system of notre dame. they rely too much on the midwest. the high school football in the midwest is not what it used to be. they have no presence in the south when it comes to recruiting. >> chuck, thank you, we'll see you at 9:00 on the "daily rundown." >> jim cramer, thank you for being here. thanks for being with us. >> i love being here. thank you for having me. >> we've missed you. >> make sure you nail the windows shut. >> we'll see you back here in 30 minutes. coming up, we'll reveal this week's "time" magazine cover. more of "morning joe" when we come back. almost tastes like one of jack's cereals. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um...
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38 past the hour, live look from the top of the rock. welcome back to "morning joe." some of the headlines going on this morning later today, president obama is expected to present marine corps corporal dakota myer the medal of honor for his service in afghanistan. he shared a beer with the corporal yesterday. myer will be the first living marine to receive the award in nearly four decades.
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the ceremony will be held in the east room of the white house this afternoon. a new report from the college board says s.a.t. reading scores for the class of 2011 dropped to the lowest point in 40 years. according to the test distributor, reading scores have gone down 33 points since 1972, but the average math score has gone up five points in that time. while the college board says more students than ever will take the s.a.t. and going to college. they contribute to the growing number of diversity of test takers, adding many are learning language as a second language. or maybe they don't test well, perhaps. what do you think? is that possible? coming up next, an exclusive first look at this week's "time" magazine. more "morning joe" when we come back. i want healthy skin for life.
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what i learned is that i wrestled with god is that i didn't have to have all the answers. that they would be revealed to me in due time. and that i needed to trust him. my journey is not the story of someone who turned to god because i wanted to. it was because i had nowhere else to turn. >> and welcome back to "morning joe." from "time" magazine, rick stingo is here to reveal the latest issue. also with us from texas -- >> i like this. >> this is good. we've got joe klein. and joe klein has bumper stickers, on the road again.
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on the road again. and here's -- follow me. look at these bumper stickers. this is big, joe klein, very big. so let's start with rick, though. i think you just put this guy on your cover because he shares your first name. >> you know what? i hadn't thought of that before. >> not a way to start. >> no, joe, you're misunderestimating me too. we were talking before, rick perry is on our cover. we did the first interview with him since he declared. beautiful portrait by the portrait artist platton. platton asks whoever he's shooting what their favorite beatles song is, and do you want to guess what rick perry's? i told joe. you can't guess. >> "here comes the sun." >> you read the thing already. that is so unfair. >> cheat.
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how did this reveal the soul of rick perry? >> so rick perry, mark haleprin and i talked to him, we wrote a very good story, and i think rick perry is on to something. i think he's tapping into something in the republican electorate, particularly the primary electorate, something that hasn't been out there before. he's sort of like the gun slinger who walks into the saloon and changes everything. and that's definitely -- >> you do think that -- >> you're scaring me. >> you make me feel i'm not giving him the credit he deserves. >> you're not giving him credit. >> what are you doing? >> what am i doing? >> he's a big rick perry fan. >> we want an interesting race, don't we? >> i think it's fair to say i've been tough on rick perry. and to quote klein, perhaps i've underestimated him. have i? is rick perry far more astute than he appears on tv? >> i don't know.
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i mean, it's really early -- >> you've talked to him. come on, joe. >> more formidable. >> no, i haven't talked to him. that was mark and rick. but there are two sides of this coin. you look at that debate on monday as i did in laredo, texas, with a bunch of texas republicans who aren't sure that he should be president. on the other hand, he's making clear statements. like he's saying social security, you know, doesn't work. and i think republicans respond to that. on the other hand, he doesn't have a second act. when someone says to him -- when he -- when he gets to the vaccination of girls against sexual transmitted diseases, when michele bauchmann goes up in his face, his reaction is deer in the headlights, right? >> yeah. >> and so at times he seems very forceful, at times he seems like prey.
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>> and rick, he also said social security was unconstitutional. >> well, we asked him -- >> he also said that americans should not vote for senators, state legislators should put senators in. >> that's what the founders said, joe. >> well, it got changed for a reason. >> we go back to 1912 -- >> the vaccines, he said, you know what? i made a mistake, i made a mistake by doing it by executive order, but i'm not apologizing for enochlating the girls in my state in fighting cancer. he's going to start modulating his views. and i said you called president obama a socialist? and he said, yeah, i still think he's a socialist. the thing is, he has a fast learning curve, one of the things he has done, for example, we talked about social security. i thought if i'm a political consultant after the debate, i'm
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going in a room all night, we're going to get a policy on social security. he says i don't have a policy on social security. i think it's broken, it's a pay as you go system, which he calls a ponzi scheme. we're going to figure it out. there's a kind of confidence that he has in his own persona and his own view. and in himself that's a representation of disenchanted voters that i think is interesting and fresh. >> i don't know about that. >> i'm asking. i don't know. >> i don't know. i don't think he's like that. i think he's got some -- he has to evolve some policies. we've all covered presidential candidates, right? they have a repertoire. he doesn't have his repertoire yet. he's learning that, and we'll see. >> well, you know, joe klein, rick said that that perry has a competence. what was it he said? unique? >> he has a comfortableness in his own skin that almost nobody
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else in the republican party has. >> one of the biggest problems with our last two presidents, perhaps at times they've been too confident in their abilities? >> well, you know the other major advantage that rick perry has is he's running against mitt romney. and if mitt romney, i just saw that clip of romney saying that, you know, romney care was only about covering 8% of people in massachusetts. it was a mandate. it was a 100% mandate. and if he thinks he's going to pull that nonsense on the american people or on us, he thinks we're much stupider than we are. >> mike? are we much stupider than we are? >> yes, we are. we have been for some time. the thing about rick perry, i never spent any time with him, so i have no feeling for what he sz is as a candidate on the stage or stump. the question that bothers me a bit, more than a bit, the party itself, the base of the party
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itself. when you've got a group of people, republicans at a debate, committed republicans. i'm sure they're fine people. and the number of executions in texas is mentioned. 265 since he became governor. and it's that fact no matter how you feel about capital punishment is met with wild applause, there's something wrong there. >> that was wildly unfortunate, i think, that audience. and i think it skewed the perception. look at the people who applauded for the girl who didn't have health insurance who died. that was appalling. but i think -- by the way, they booed rick perry, right? one of the things that i thought was interesting about him up there on was he wasn't playing to the audience the way huey long might. he was saying, here are my views. if you don't like them, sorry. if you on the left don't like them, sorry. but you know where i stand. >> i think huey long did that, too. can i ask you one question. you said he's got swagger, he's got confidence and he calls
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president obama a socialist. isn't that absurd. whatever you say about obam ahe's not a socialist. he's a lot of things you might not like but for a supposedly sophisticated, intelligent governor of one of the biggest states in america to call the president of the united states, particularly after he did when the banks were failing a socialist is nothing short of ignorant or cowtowing to a certain constituency. >> is kowtowing to a certain constituency wrong? >> part of it is how you define socialist. obviously, the way he defines socialist is not the way you and i would define socialist. president obama is not a socialist by any definition that i know. >> that's what i'm getting at. >> go ahead, mike. >> one other thing that really bothers me. i've known klein for 40 years and he has a bumper sticker now? how did that happen? >> what's with the bumper
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sticker? >> i'm on a road trip, mike. >> i like you guys. joe is out there in the field talking to real voters. >> let's hear joe talk to us now. joe, what have you learned? >> hey, what i am wondering is, joe you said you were going to be down here for the austin city limits festival. where are you? you're up there. >> i got to work, okay? people aren't giving me bumper stickers to like lounge around. >> take your guitar and go down there. >> "austin city limits" festival this weekend. very exciting. are you going to be hanging out with the republicans' favorite hippie, mark mckackinnon under s shady tree? >> absolutely. >> what bands your most excited about this weekend? >> arcade fire, coldplay. there are a whole bunch of them. could i just say about socialism that the word -- the appropriate word here is demagogery. rick perry, any kind of
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government action is socialism. and i think that you doing that cheapens the discourse and makes this a more extreme and crazy country. >> joe klein, rick stengel. rick, i still don't know what you are doing. >> we'll be right back. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no! but it's more money. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. what's in your wallet? woah! [ giggles ]
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are you nervous yet? >> i am. i'm just hoping we can raise the level of -- i mean, the first
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hour, we're not going to talk to him about -- >> your father? dr. brzezinski? no, we're not going to talk about that. >> very excited about that. >> he's coming up. we'll be back in a moment with more from mike barnacle and jim cramer. yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins. fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us.
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but if you love me, you have to help me pass this bill. we've got to tell congress to do their part. you've got some republicans in congress. they like to talk about how we're in favor of america's job creators. well, you know what? if you are in favor of america's job creators, this is your bill. this will actually help america's job creators. so we need to pass this jobs bill right away. >> good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set, mike barnacle and jim cramer. all right. can we talk about jobs since cramer is here? >> let's go to work. >> republicans sending out on their own. john boehner is set to deliver his own jobs speech at the economic club in washington today, a week after president obama's jobs address to congress. it comes as the president continued his jobs plan push last night.
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this time, taking his pitch back to washington after several days out on the road. at an aparts gala held for the congressional hispanic congress, the president joked that the group's members, some of whom attended last week's speech, just can't seem to avoid his talk about jobs. >> probably thought you could escape this by coming to this dinner, but i'm here because we're at a critical time for our country. the fight we're having right now, the fight to put more americans back to work, to make our country stronger in the long run, to prove that we can get something done here in washington, this fight could not be more important for the people in this room, for the latino community and for millions of americans who need help. >> what? >> nothing. >> ahead of those remarks said the president's job plan would cut payroll taxes for about 25 million hispanic workers and
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250,000 hispanic owned businesses. the president wrapped up his jobs tour in north carolina where he visited a manufacturing company specializing in aerospace equipment. and later during an event in raleigh, the president again asked reporters -- >> okay, okay, so mike barnacle, what is going on. >> excuse me. what? he's selling his plan. >> right. >> do you want him to talk about jobs? >> i'm glad he's talking about jobs. i am. i think this is what he should do. i'm glad he's doing it. but what if a president talked about jobs and nobody was listening. i mean, this is not -- this is -- >> maybe you should listen. >> what did you say? this is just not cutting through the noise. >> now, according to the reports we hear, he has an issue with house and senate democrats on the jobs plan. they want to cherry pick it and split it up. yesterday mr. cramer has an interview with treasury secretary geithner. >> i thought it was an interview that could very well save
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america. >> you know something, other than the detroit tigers, it's the greatest thing that's happened to this country. >> and we called the tigers. >> your interview. >> i took the interview right up until the first pitch of halladay. >> do they have any clear explanation for why it has taken them so long to really, really get to the point where we're -- >> we're cueing up the sound bite. >> the international financial crisis has got everybody completely distracted. the worries on a daily basis that europe is hanging by a thread, has kept our policymakers from being able to figure out some sort of big plan. i'm not excusing them. i'm not excusing geithner because geithner has to be on his game every minute to try to create jobs. but the focus is all europe. until europe gets its house together, it's difficult to do anything financially that will have impact. >> but let's listen to the interview that changed america. jim cramer. >> what we have done is put together -- the president has put together a package which we
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think has a powerful mix of tax incentives and investment that would be good for job creation and the economy right now. we're proposing to make sure there are ways to make sure it doesn't add to long-term deficits. and people will have different views about what's good for growth. and i haven't heard them, but people have a better idea, with the same impact on growth in the short term -- >> do you believe it's a, quote, very strong mix? is this something that's going to jolt america? >> no. the gop doesn't -- it's just going to block anything that involves more taxes. and second, the lot of the things that geithner wants to do and this president want to do seem a little bit unworldly versus people who are actually in business. i've started five businesses. i never started one, not one because i was trying to get a little bit of a break on a payroll tax. i think these kinds of little tinkerings on payroll taxes, on unemployment insurance are same
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old, same old, or -- >> i hear that from people that start businesses. so what would you do? >> what do you need? >> what would you do right now. >> geithner has a baste canadian plan. canada's economy really terrific. go where the jobs are. you want to take -- instead of trying to stimulate jobs in, solar, say, where there really aren't any jobs go to north dakota, go to texas go to oklahoma, go to montana, go to where we do not have enough people to be able to pull out 24 billion barrels of oil, which, by the way is more than prudeau bay and more than the reserves and get that oil out of the ground. i know it's fossil. i know fossil no good, but that's where the jobs are. >> we need jobs. >> all they need is trains to get the people there. >> we need jobs. green jobs over a generation. we need you know, fossils, give it to us. >> i went to north dakota. this guy comes on. the president of the western hemisphere for halliburton. and he looks in the camera and
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said, i want to pay $120,000 to you americans who can get here to north dakota. you don't have to go to college. we want you. $120,000. that guy has a job shortage that can only be equaled by a federal plan to get people to come there because they need to build five railroads, three pipelines. you know what kind of skilled worker it takes for that. >> you think we're focusing on the wrong kind of jobs right now? >> where the jobs need to be created are jobs that need to meet demand, not stimulate them. >> where the jobs are. you cannot create, right now, this quarter, green jobs out of thin air. the -- if right now you want to turn things around, you can do that for long-term investment but short term, mika, we have to go to where the jobs are. >> put your money behind a winning hand. >> where's the demand. i mean, i know where the demand is. you put your money where the demand is. >> then you don't have to worry about wasting it. >> you know who you sound like? >> a one-senator jim demint.
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>> really? >> i think they hang out. >> kent conrad, one of the most reasonable people. >> here's senator demint. take a listen. >> i would love to be able to work with the president on something. but he is practicing what we call venture socialism. i mean, he basically is taking an approach where it's the government that needs to stimulate jobs. i know as an employer and you know as an employer you don't hire somebody because the payroll tax is a little lower or you get a $4,000 tax credit and you certainly don't hire anyone if they are going to tax you more. it's hard for me to listen to him have a jobs plan when it's really just a political program to try to defer the blame of our economy on to the republicans. >> mike barnacle, you and i talked to business people all the time. democrats, mainly, because where we are in new york and boston and washington. but democratic businesspeople
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mainly that that will tell us they supported the president, but they remain -- we've been talking about this for years. they remain stunned that this president doesn't understand basic economics. he does not -- as far as he may understand it in theory. he does not understand the basic economics of, i've got to make payroll in two weeks. osha is breathing down my back. my taxes are higher than they've ever been. you know, local, state, et cetera. this is what businesspeople always say. i am going to have to lay off one person. i may have to lay off another next quarter because my kids -- this is what they never understand. because my -- this is what they -- and this is what happens when you learn about economics in books instead of actually running a small business. and the decision isn't, i'm going to have to lay off a person next quarter because the demand is not there and i'm not
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getting the right tax incentive. it's i may have to lay off a person next quarter because i can't make my mortgage payment here, my mortgage payment at home and put my second kid through college. i mean, they just don't seem to have a grasp. because they'll say to you something like, you know, only 2% of small businesses file as corporations or something like that. it's all mixed up. >> it gets to the larger umbrella question that all of these people bring up in their discussions here, off camera. and it is what is this president's understanding? how would he define capitalism? >> i think he thinks it as a partnership between labor and capital. it's not a partnership. he'd like it to be in a kind of utopian world. but it's a capitalism is a group of guys who decide i'm going to risk everything and build. i'm going to risk everything and expand.
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and i think he views it as capitalism is the government working together to help the workers do really well so it's not just the rich people who do well. >> and the president wants -- i had a businessperson say yesterday, it's funny, the president wants us to be successful, but to a certain degree. and then he wants the government to step in and -- again, i'm a guy that said millionaires and billionaires should pay more in taxes, that we need to -- >> you get no argument from them about that. >> you get no argument about it. but again, it's just sort of the general theory. and it's big companies that want to risk it all but it's also small companies. and i always use this example because it's the best example. it's a dentist trying to figure out how to get four chairs in his office instead of three chairs. and if that dentist believes that you're going to raise taxes on him or her over the next two years, he or she is not going to
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do it because her kids start school in three or four years. and if you are talking about raising capital gains taxes, and if you are talking about raising all these other taxes, and you have people talking about a war tax and a gas tax and a this tax and a that tax, whether we pass them or not, that freezes that dentist in place. that freezes that entrepreneur in place. that freezes everybody in place. >> at the end of the day -- >> that's reality. that's reality. >> at the end of the day, the reality is you can -- i would think you could give people, employers, small business, any kind of tax breaks you want. hire a person to give a $1500 tax break but they'll not do it because at the end of the day when they open the doors, there's no customer. coming up next, dr. zbigniew brzezinski. but first, gleelet's go to bill karins for a look at the forecast. >> summer turning quickly into
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fall. some are already feeling it and they are walking out this morning going, wow, what happened. the front has to move through. today is the messy day. a lot of areas of light rain. that's in the green through western new york, central pennsylvania. still dry for the morning commute. that rain will move into the big cities. 73 in central park in new york while buffalo is 51. that's a good indication of how cool this air is that's heading our way. so the showers and storms will go through. then it will dry out later on this afternoon into this evening. now as far as the forecast for the middle of the country, look how chilly in minneapolis today. 55 for a high. in dallas, finally, much more like it. low 80s instead of near 100. and a little peek at tomorrow's forecast. that's when the gorgeous weather arrives from d.c. to boston with highs only in the 60s. pretty soon we'll be picking apples. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.
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what i learned as a wrestled with god is that i didn't have to have all the answers. that they would be revealed to me in due time. and that i needed to trust him. my faith journey is not the story of someone who turned to god because i wanted to.
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it was because i had nowhere else to turn. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 17 past the hour. joining us now from washington, we have former national security adviser for president carter, dr. zbigniew brzezinski. hi, dad. good morning. he's just back from a big trip. >> well, let's talk about that. >> but i want to ask about rick perry, no? should i not? >> no, we've talked about rick perry enough. >> fine. i will abstain from the conversation. >> you take it. >> russia and germany, dad. tell us about it. >> well it was nothing, you know, extraordinary, but it was very interesting. in russia, i participated in a meet with president medvedev. and he spoke. the president of turkey was there and i had a chance to speak and deliver a speech. and my sense in russia was that the country is in a state of unease, uncertainty. unclear about its near political
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future, and uncertain about its larger global prospects. so it's a rather interesting opportunity to compare views and also to make some policy recommendations. and in germany, of course, the preoccupation was the european union but it was rather interesting that in the high-level meetings in germany, which the german president participated, top level chinese delegation also participated and spoke about these problems. and in a sense seemed to indicate chinese interest in helping the europeans somehow or other cope with their problems. the russians were present there, too. and there were a couple of americans. i was one of them. and basically, there's a sense of uneasiness in europe also about america. not only our economics, but the absence of any american foreign policy for the middle east. the sense in europe is that our position in the middle east is disintegrating between our eyes. and i happen to share that view. and that we're doing very little
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about it. and we have an immediate challenge coming up in the u.n. which could end up very tragically for everyone concerned. for us, for the middle east, specifically for the palestinians, in the longer run for the israelis as well. >> dr. brzezinski, the timing, it would be hard to imagine the timing being much worse with the u.n. vote coming up for u.s. policy on the middle east to be disintegrating before our eyes. what has caused this crisis? >> what has caused this crisis basically is the absence of progress towards peace in the middle east. we talk peace, but we don't promote peace. and we take a back seat and we let the developments move forward on their own without the united states either asserting its influence or mobilizing the support of others to assert a common global interest in solving that problem. in the meantime, the arab governments that we have traditionally dealt with are
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beginning to fold up. a new era is upon us in the middle east. but it's not in my view an era of democracy. it's an era of populism. and popular views tend to be harder, tougher, less compromising. so we've missed the boat here. and now if we take a stand against palestinian independence in the u.n., it's not only going to be a serious strategic error, but it's going to be a tragic, historical error. >> dr. brzezinski -- >> because we voted, rightly, for israeli independence in 1948, and we should be on record of supporting some formula for palestinian independence. and to be viewed by most as u.s. rejecting the prospect of that independence. >> dr. brzezinski, certainly you've heard, washington's head the old saying, all politics is local. on long island this tuesday, democrats lost a special
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election that many are fretting may cause bigger problems for democrats over the next two years because of the president's supposed split with israel and jewish voters. the front page of the "new york times" today, the headline is seeing a ripple in jewish vote. politics toward israel may hurt democrats. but you have the administration talking about steps that they are going to make in the coming weeks, months to underline and emphasize actually a movement closer to israel. do you think the timing of this should be cause for concern for those who want to see us move forward with middle east peace? >> i'm not even sure whether the timing is the cause of concern. what i think is cause of concern is the absence of any strategic sense of direction in the region. what we are doing essentially is contributing to a situation in which both the united states and israel are going to be totally isolated in the middle east.
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and in the longer run, if the united states is pushed out of the middle east, israel is not going to survive. so it's a tragic situation in which blind people looking at today and mostly yesterday are leading and determining what is to be done. look. some years ago, america entered the middle east because the people there wanted us, instead of the french and british imperialists. we had iran on our side. we had saudi arabia on our side. we had egypt on our side. we had turkey on our side and we were close to israel. look where we are today. we're practically isolated and israel is isolating itself increasingly. this is a self-destructive policy. and you can translate it into some sort of domesticical clause but that's a short-run calculation. >> doctor in this world in that part of the world you just spoke of you have this incredibly volatile situation with, as you
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indicated, arab governments toppling before our eyes. and you have a somewhat island of stability in israel. the question posed to you because you are uniquely qualified to answer it. bebe netanyahu is he more of an ally or antagonist to the process of peace? >> i think he's self destructive. i think he's damaging israel's long-range prospects. you describe it as an island of stability. it's an island staff bility in which 6 million people are ruling 5 million other people. that's not stable. and in the region which is self asserting which is becoming indeed populist, it's a prescription for an explosion, tremendous violence and repression. yes in the short run, israel is the strongest of the two, the israelis and the palestinians or the israelis and the arabs. but in the long run, it's not a formula for survival. it's a formula for isolation,
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perpetual conflict, eventual failing of the security of israel and of its prospects of survival. so the stakes are enormous. and to sort of measure that in terms of short-range political goals seems to me to be an evasion of historical responsibility and it is essentially an abandonment of american strategic interests. >> mika, one of the things i love about having your dad on, pin the globe, pick a country, ask him about it and he'll give you a dissertation. >> i am going to jump to pakistan if i could. quickly, because we had dexter wilkens on yesterday who is just back from pakistan. he said in the 20 years since he's been going there and reporting, it's never been as bad or more chaotic, he said, than it is right now. do you share that view of pakistan, and, if so, what does that mean for the united states? >> what it means for the united states is that we ought to think very seriously about seeking a regional solution for pakistan
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in the very near future. not merely prevailing against the taliban or alternatively negotiating with it in parts, but launching a diplomatic initiative which engages all of afghanistan's neighbors. start with pakistan. but also the other "stans." and iran and india and china. and make it clear to them in the process, we're willing to be part of the solution, but you are not going to be there eternally solving the problem for the region. and if they are not prepared to participate with us in finding a solution for afghanistan, we are going to pack up and leave. it's going to be a disaster for afghanistan, it will blow up pakistan. it will engage the indians in possible conflict. will throw the ball to the chinese who will then be stuck with an explosive situation regarding their ally pakistan. and it will be their problem. >> wow. okay. i want to -- >> really hopeful discussion. >> well -- >> let's lift things up, dad, a
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little bit. >> let's actually -- let's -- >> no. >> turn the corner and make things more cheerful. you want to talk about poverty in america. the great strides we've made over the past 25 years. >> okay. i don't know because you landed two days ago. you might have seen the latest poverty study from the census bureau. bottom line is the poverty, people living below the poverty line are growing in numbers. you are writing a book about sort of prescriptions for the future. and do you look at what's happening in our society in terms of the divide? >> what i worry about -- >> the growing divide. >> it's partially what you have just talked about, mika. but i also worry even more about the other side of that which is the 1% of the richest who have the benefits of tax loopholes and preferential arrangements and whoop it up without any responsibility, social responsibility for our lives.
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i think warren buffett wrote a historic piece which ought to be the guide for congress. we cannot have a society in which 1% owns so much and in which the remnants of what used to be the poor in our society, now increase by refugees from a failing lower middle class are deprived. this is a prescription for social conflict in addition to economic paralysis. >> okay. how do you fix that at this point? and is anyone in washington even coming close to attempting to? >> well, the only way to fix it is to address it over and over and over again at the highest level with some persuasion and to the extent possible with some initiatives that have social appeal. but i am afraid we have gotten ourselves into a situation in which our gridlock is going to perpetuate this issue until it really becomes painful for our society. so we may be in for a tough period of time in our prospects.
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but i still nurture the conviction that the residual assets of america are there. that the society has the capacity for self-renewal and self-reflection, but we're going right now through a kind of a lunatic phase in our policy. in our politics. look at the comments and speeches and perspectives shared with us by republican presidential candidates. it's literally frightening. these people are living in some sort of never, never land of illusions, slowing ons, passions, convictions, very unrelated to reality. >> speaking of unrelated reality, mike barnacle has a question. >> very disconnected. >> very disconnected, indeed. >> your outline of what you referred to as the 1% doctrine, 1% of the population in this country owning so much while the rest of us own so very little, that is a prescription,
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globally, for unrest in any society, in any culture. eventually, people look out the window and see the top of the hill where everybody has everything and they get their pitchfork and decide to try and take the hill, whether it's here or africa or the middle east. is it not? >> absolutely. and we have been very lucky because we have been a democratic society in which progress sort of reinforce our democratic institutions because everyone felt they have a chance of rising. today, social advancement from the lower classes upwards is faster in europe than in america. not to mention other societies like, for example, the chinese who are lifting themselves by the boot straps. i mean, we have right now a stagnant social, highly differentiated society in which the richer are getting richer, are absolutely social indifferent. they debate taxes right and left, and we are kind of indifferent to it. that's a prescription exactly
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for which you describe. >> all right. >> okay. dr. zbigniew brzezinski, thank you. i couldn't agree with you more actually about the republican slogans, but i also think that it takes two to tango. >> oh, absolutely. and i think it's sort of a pity, but we have very, very dramatically attractive leadership, but -- which doesn't really go far beyond speeches. and that's part of the problem and has been so for the last months or couple of years, i'm sorry to say. >> dad, thank you very much. come back soon. people have been asking about you. i told them you are always traveling. >> some will hate me for what i was saying today. >> no, i don't think so. >> you'll fit right in here. >> i think you're good. thanks so much for being with us. >> thanks, dad. up next, the white house is get something heat for its big stimulus investment in failed solar panel company. nbc news's lisa myers investigates. that story is ahead and business before the bell when "morning joe" returns.
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house republicans are raising new concerns over evidence they say indicates that the white house rushed approval for a loan of nearly $500 million for the now defunct
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solar panel manufacturer solyndra. the treasury department is joining the fbi and energy department in investigating whether or not solyndra misled the government to secure that big stimulus loan. solyndra was the centerpiece of president obama's pitch to the american people about the creation of more green jobs. the house panel released documents that showed the administration pushed if are the guarantee so vice president joe biden could announce it at a 2009 ground-breaking. nbc's lisa myers has more. >> reporter: the president visited the company solyndra last year hailing it as a stimulus success story. >> the true engine of economic growth will always be companies like solyndra. >> reporter: today, the company is bankrupt. 1,100 workers laid off. taxpayers stand to lose as much as $500 million. >> i think everyone must agree that there is some scandal involved in this. >> should someone be fired? >> reporter: house republicans today hammered the white house revealing e-mails which suggest
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the administration was in a hurry to provide taxpayer money, despite red flags about the company's viability. >> yeah, there was pressure, but it was pressure applied in pushing this thing out the door. >> reporter: just days before the deal was approved, a staffer warns that one model shows the project runs out of cash in september 2011. which it did. another questioned the government's assumptions but said given the time pressure we are under to sign off on solyndra, we don't have time to change the model. why the rush? e-mails showed that the white house wanted the vice president to announce a final deal the next week. which he did. still, administration officials insist everything was handled properly. >> extensive due diligence was done across multiple years. >> reporter: they blame the company's collapse on unforeseeable market conditions which caused solar prices to plummet this year. >> at the end of the day, the
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taxpayer loses big time. i mean, it's just -- it stinks to high heaven. >> reporter: still, the white house argues this was a necessary risk. for the u.s. to compete in a high-tech global economy. >> that was nbc's lisa myers reporting for us this morning. want to get a check on business before the bell with simon hobbs live at the new york stock exchange. >> good morning. we've got news on the jobless front. new applications for unemployment benefits rose last week to their highest level in two months. 428,000 people applying for benefit. that's slightly worse than the market was expecting. it's the wrong side of 400. it means the economy is probably losing more jobs than it's actually creating just at the margin. what is interesting is that the market is still likely to open in positive territory, albeit by 20 points. one of the reasons for that is that we also have very tame inflation figures coming through within the last few minutes. a rise of 0.2% in the underlying inflation rate for august and that indicates that next week the federal reserve may feel that it has more room to
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maneuver and possibly qe3 as we call it. more injection of cash into the economy. >> more jobless claims. i want to ask you about the front page of "the wall street journal." europe lending woes deepen. we had your colleague jim cramer on a little while ago saying the united states is having trouble getting going because of what's happening in europe. what's the latest there? >> yeah iread that article as well on the front of the journal. it's clear we have funding concerns in europe. that's actually nothing new. that's one of the reason yes we've had a very difficult month and a half. what i think is new is the conference call between the french, the germans and the greeks last night which the takeaway -- my takeaway from is that there will be no greek default, probably for a couple of months and that if it does default, they will keep it within the euro zone. that offers a chance staff bility. also a big meeting potentially coming up tomorrow in poland which treasury secretary geithner will be attending. and we've got comments coming from the spanish that they want rapid, decisive and strong actions. it may be that this is a weekend
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when you get some sort of shock and awe. the bric nations are in washington next week and can put cash forward. >> simon hobbs, thank you. coming up, the actual earl of sandwich teams up with the founder of planet hollywood. >> i love sandwiches. this thing is great. we talk about fat and obesity. i'm telling you, these sandwich ooze. >> i hope not. i'm going to ask him. all right, also teaming up with the co-owner of eberton premiere league team for a restaurant here in new york city. it's the perfect morning joe combo. nutrition and soccer. >> but we don't gauk talk about nutrition. >> i do. >> no, i want fat. >> i'm going to. [ woman ] jogging stroller. you've been stuck in the garage
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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, the founder of
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planet hollywood and perhaps more importantly for "morning joe," -- >> certainly for roger bennett. >> well, roger is not here. >> can you believe this? >> i know. he's going to be sickened. he's going to have weird things to say that i won't understand. >> we've got him something. >> we do. the co-owner of ebverton footbal club. also the co-owner of the earl of sandwich shop now open here in new york. gentlemen, thanks for being on "morning joe." makes joe very happy. >> it does make me very happy. tell me about this new venture. it's very exciting. >> where do we start? fantastic trademark -- >> how would you think of that? because we're always pining over how to think of the name of a project. >> the name comes from a great british tradition of the navy. it comes from the port of sandwich on the east coast. and it was 100 years after that in 1762 that the first sandwich
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was recorded as eaten in st. james' coffee house in london. so that's how we started. >> in 1762. now what was in that first sandwich? >> well, we know it was meat. on that day. >> on that day it was beef. >> very good. so from 1762 to today -- >> we waited a few years. >> smart. timing. >> you wanted the reputation to grow a bit. >> absolutely. and jon's great, great, great, great grandpa invented the sandwich and i approached him and said this is a word that translates everywhere in the world. can we go into business together? so we've developed a hot sandwich and now we've brought it to new york. >> so tell us about it. tell us what new yorkers and -- >> is it healthy? >> absolutely unhealthy. >> good! okay. i'm on your side. barnacle, we're going here. >> anyone in the world that tries to deceive you and say that two pieces of bread which
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are 200 calories before you start, any color of bread you like, is teasing you. so they're not healthy. they are delicious. they're all hot. they are inexpensive. they are served very, very fast. and we think that we're going to have fun in this market. >> now where is it located? >> the first one is next door to you because you look a little bit like you need some food. >> oh, no, he doesn't. >> i'm so famished. >> at 1290 avenue of the americas. and then we'll be opening a few. the second one will open at 90 john street down the other end of town. >> now you won't have -- >> now when i go in there, i will not have to look at pornography on the wall, will i? >> well, i know you're trying to understand the sport, roger has told me. >> yes, right here. >> roger, here is yours. >> that's a great long rivalry in the city of liverpool as you know. maybe you guys will come over,
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sit in the box for the everton liverpool game. >> we certainly will and then we'll go to anfield and -- >> how has -- >> i like it. >> great britain taken to -- liverpool is owned by guys from boston. >> and l.a. >> and how do they take to outsiders, to americans owning soccer teams? >> they've been very well received, particularly the americans because they have an understanding of sports franchises. there are people from russia. there are people from the middle east, and they've injected substantial cash into the sport. and so that's enabled england to get the best players in the world. and we have the premier league. although i'm really pleased with the development in america. mls is coming up rapidly. it's financially successful, and i think it will be the first time that soccer will be stabilized in this country. >> you keep hearing that it's almost impossible to make any money owning a soccer team. is it? >> yes. i think sports franchises --
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>> he is very -- you -- >> he's got a wonderful transparency. >> is the sandwich healthy? good god, no. >> see, now i may buy the sandwich. >> you guys tell the truth. >> yes, you do. >> thank you. >> but it is really. i've heard other people say if you're going to get involved in a soccer team, you are doing it because of the love of the game. >> the other sandwich never had a soccer team. he rode horses and gambled on horseback with a pair of dice. and he was said to have been gambling when he ate the first sandwich but we know he was a hard working man. >> how many cities are you in? >> we're after global domination. there will be 20 by the end of this year. we're in newark airport now, boston airport, detroit airport, philadelphia airport. we're on the florida turnpikes. >> did you just sign a deal to do a sandwich shop on boston common?
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>> i did. right on the common. we are converting the old pink palace which was a gentleman's rest rooms at the turn of the century. >> very good. >> this is fascinating. would you consider letting me come talk to you about the health of your sandwich? i would like to create a sandwich for you. >> i've got a great idea. i'm going to broker a deal now. are you ready? you can talk to him about healthy foods, healthy eating. but only if he will let us come to the owner's box when everton plays liverpool. >> that's a deal. >> and we'll have that discussion about -- >> can we shake on it? >> may i dress you for that game? >> oh. >> in the colors you wish to be. >> yes, you certainly can. it's an experience you really should take up. >> i can't wait. >> now will i be in danger walking to the box if i'm dressed in red? >> absolutely. >> okay. well, very good.
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>> this will be great. >> thank you so much. >> robert earl, jon montagu, thank you. morning "morning joe" in just a moment. so i'm glad it's with fidelity. they offer me one-on-one guidance to help me choose my investments. not just with my savings plan here at work. they help me with all of my financial goals. looking good, irene. thanks to fidelity, i can stay on top of my financial future, huh? good one. why, thank you. whether it's saving for retirement, college, or anything else, contact a fidelity investment professional today.
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president obama's re-election campaign has launched a new contest. they are having a contest where contributors can win a chance to have dinner with the president.
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or if you come in second, a mid-afternoon hot pocket with joe biden. i got to go. stay, stay. >> president obama's jobs bill hot off the presses. at kinko's? hundreds of billions in tax hikes and new spending bound together with that chintzy clip. look at that. >> this is your jobs bill. that deserves a large shiny binder. instead, it's with a little clip. >> we need the good one from kinko's, right? >> but it's not just fox news, folks. this story has been picked up all across things rupert murdoch owns. like yesterday's "new york post." o gives jobs clip service. tax hike plan bound by chintzy fastener. yeah, why so chintzy? if he really believed in this
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bill, he should have presented it in a leather bound volume with gold filigree and illuminated initials so the republicans had something presentable to dismiss before they ever look at it. with no help, the post office could default by the end of this month. >> the worst case scenario, a complete shutdown this winter, unless congress steps in. >> that's right. the survival of the post office depends on swift congressional action. good-bye. the post office's financial crisis is the post office's own fault. what kind of business mod cell the forever stamp? that's like chili's with their bottomless coke. by the way, i'll be back tonight, chili's. daddy's still thirsty.
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hey, welcome back. time to talk about what we learned today. willie, we've learned so much today. >> i learned "morning joe" is your one-stop shop for wisconsin cheese curds made of human fat, fire codes at jim cramer
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businesses and what's wrong with notre dame football. >> dr. brzezinski, who would have guessed dr. brzezinski would come on and talk exclusively about what was wrong with notre dame football. >> what did you learn, mike? >> i learned, obviously, speaking of jimmy cramer, that you have to go out and get yourself a flame retardant set of pajamas. >> i may not stay there but i'll stay in the place across the street. >> what did you learn? >> i'm going to bag you guys and go tonight to donna karan and arianna huffington's event and actually talk about something. and i found out the president's poll numbers resilient. the latest ap poll. >> if it's too early, what time is it? >> it's way too early. stick around for the daily rundown with chuck. >> with friends like these, president obama keeps hammering his jobs bill. but check out the high-profile