brenda, we appreciate the imagery. you said it would make me giggle. "morning joe" starts right now. i've had a lot of conversations with the president, a lot of negotiations on the debt ceiling and other issues this year. and it's almost as if we're two groups of people from two different planets who barely understand each other. and i come to this job having run a small business. the president and his staff, most of them have never been in the private sector. and so we've got these competing ideas. i'm a big believer in the free enterprise system. the president and his staff tend to believe that government have more control over our economy. >> good morning. look at that. it's friday, september 16th. welcome to "morning joe." it is friday. >> it is friday. >> yeah. >> fascinating. what john boehner said.

would you agree with that? >> no. >> did you hear what he said? >> yeah. i thought it was more of what we don't need. >> no, i think he's -- we come from the perspective that we believe in small business and individuals having a bigger say in the economy. but the obama administration believes in the government taking -- >> from different planets and there's no bridge. >> but isn't that -- isn't that the divide? it's the presumption? >> obama is from mars, boehner is from venus. >> people have disagreed on these things, but their job is to work it out. and their job is not to say we're on different planets and therefore it's over. seriously? now? it's going to be on them. and i hope this president says that. >> can i just tell you -- >> it's on you. >> before we got here, peter alexander and i ran a marriage counseling firm in washington, d.c. and there were a lot of times we didn't think we were going to bring those couples together. >> right. >> we also crashed weddings, but that's another part of the story

and eventually funerals. but peter and i found out was that -- >> funeral crashing. >> you've got to first understand and i know peter will back me up. the positions of the two conflicted parties -- >> yeah, i'm hearing. >> -- get a good understanding, and then that's when we move them towards resolution, towards reconciliation. >> okay. how about this problem, joe and peter? you've got a president saying here's a plan, and it's a plan that democrats and republicans can support, and here's why, and i'm reaching out to you, and i'm putting it out there because our country's in crisis. and then you've got the speaker of the house saying we're on different planets, no. how do you fix that? >> well, listen, peter you listen, don't you? >> when you crash funerals, when you crash the funerals, you really have to put yourself in both parties' position. >> really? boehner says he's also trying to

look for common ground, as well. really? really? how long are we supposed to wait for that? >> the only question -- how many jobs -- how many more people have to lose their homes while he sits there and searches for common ground? >> and we're back. >> where is this anger coming from? >> i don't know. why does she hate -- >> i'm really tired of everyone -- >> if you listen to the speaker of the house, mika. >> yeah. >> and if you have been -- you haven't spent any time in the counseling business as we have. i was an adjunct professor to the counseling firm. but if you listen to him closely, there's a moderate struggling to get out within speaker boehner. >> really? good. that's great. >> the bottom line is this for americans who are watching. and they're saying joe, peter, walk us through this. walk us through these difficult times. john, let me ring you in. what john boehner, i believe,

was saying there and what americans need to understand is that conservatives, those who define themselves as conservatives usually, unless republicans control washington, d.c. and spend more money than anybody else on the planet ever, but usually conservatives have a presumption running through all of their legislation, through all of their speeches, through, through their campaigns, through their office, the presumption that the individual should be given the most power and then if the individual can't handle it, let the local government do it. and if the local government can't do it, go to the state. and then as the last instant, if nobody else can handle a crisis or a problem, then it's under washington's domain. and liberals, the other side believe in a strong activist progressive government. there's nothing wrong with that.

we've basically stayed at the presumptions of fdr versus ronald reagan. nothing wrong with either one of those sides. >> nope. >> i can believe in one side, you believe in the other. >> except for the fact in practice, many conservatives as you've pointed out -- those are conservative talking points about their -- about what they believe. >> right. >> what i think mika's point is that, you know, the president explicitly in his speech tried to point to things that republicans have historically voted for that he was proposing. and for boehner to say, to answer that by saying, you know, you're basically a socialist, you believe in the government running the economy, we believe in the -- >> now you -- is your thought process being infected by the rage to the left? >> why don't you just -- >> detract the word socialist and simply say, boehner's saying you guys want the government to run the economy. and the president's proposals were proposals that, as i said,

in the past, take, for example, cutting the payroll tax. that is hardly a proposal that reflects a desire to see the government run the economy. and boehner does not seem to be trying to rise to meet the president on policies that, again, republicans had historically supported. >> you would agree, though, that john boehner has over time been more actively seeking compromise than say any of the presidential candidates on the republican side. >> certainly, and many of the members of his own caucus. that's true. i think boehner has been -- we know this dynamic from the debt ceiling debate. he's much more willing to make a deal than a lot of the people who are in the house republican caucus. >> mike? what do you think? is this not going to work at this point? is there not going to be a deal at this point? >> there's going to be a deal. there's going to be some sort of deal for the country. but as john just pointed out, if you track it and when i said not really fooling around. there's a moderate there within

the speaker trying to -- struggling to get out. he is clearly more than any other republican tried to bridge a gap between his party in the house of representatives and the president's position. and that every opportunity that he's tried to cross that bridge halfway, he's been pulled back by recalcitrant members of his own caucus. he's got a larger problem there than the president has in what to do about the economy. >> peter alexander, this is about as bad as when we were trying to get them back together. trying to remind them of the love they once had. >> the it's a romantic trip. >> i thought that's got them into trouble in the first time. bringing a third party on vacation to aruba. >> that was our suggestion, and over time we hope they can work on those. but returning the thought.

jim demint, i think it's what he said that a lot of people are focused on in many ways. which is as republicans, we can't go along with this president because if we go along with the jobs plan right now, clearly we're responsible for whatever the consequences of it are. and if we don't go along, then at least we can say we weren't a part of this jobs plan. it's that sort of desire to do nothing that people are going to say for the next 15 months we're just supposed to wait? >> exactly. >> we need to talk to demint. and let me say -- >> they're on our calendar. >> you need to calm down a little bit. >> really? >> next thursday -- >> at a speech in washington yesterday, speaker boehner said there is room for compromise, but that most -- >> think of that. give. >> but that most of the president's plan misses the mark. >> right. >> let's be honest with ourselves. the president's proposals are a poor substitute for the pro-growth policies that are needed to remove barriers to job creation in america. the policies that are needed to

put america back to work. >> the house speaker then unveiled his own proposal for reviving the economy including no new taxes, reforming the tax code, and ending excessive federal regulations. and in an interview with cnbc, speaker boehner declined to give a timetable on when the president's bill will be passed. noting the house has passed its own legislation. boehner saying "the president could get behind some of these jobs bills." the white house responded to boehner's speech saying in part the american jobs act includes the kinds of proposals that have been supported in a bipartisan way in the past. and the president's plan rebuilds the economy, the american way based on balance, fairness, and ensuring there is the same set of rules for everyone from wall street to main street. >> yesterday chuck todd was asked, did this white house ever believe this jobs bill was going to pass? or did they believe it was just political theater? and chuck said he didn't take

the bait on political theater. but he did say they never intended this bill to be passed but they had to put a marker out there. >> their political analysis was there was nothing they could do that would be -- there was probably nothing going to pass at all. and certainly nothing that would be big enough that could actually move the needle on jobs in the short-term that ever had any chance of passing. so they were making -- they were basically laying out what was -- i think this was a reasonably smart thing to do. they're saying this is what we believe and this is what we're going to run on for the next 15 months. it's not going to be passed, but let's be clear about where the lines are. back to boehner's comment, they're from venus, we're from mars, let's have a fight. >> and it makes sense to me, mike, if they're going to do this, they've waited too late. but if they're going to do this, do it this time, fail. when they come back next year, try to pass another jobs bill, fail. i would just stay at it and stay

at it. and he's got to make up for lost time for three years where people think that he has not been focused sufficiently on jobs bills. so he needs to just -- even if republicans say no. i would do it for the next year. just beat it like a drum. >> think of what you and john were just talking about. how sad is it with the economic situation, the unemployment situation in this country being what it is, 9.2%, probably 15%, 16% real unemployment that both sides are so cynical saying it'll never pass, but we'll introduce it anyway. that's one thing. the other thing is that the president's clearly the strongest card he's got to play right now i would think is that he is the reasonable person. in this whole debate. that he's the reasonable guy. he keeps coming back to the table. with this latest job proposal, and you're right, next year they'll have another one. after this one goes down the

dumper. >> keep pushing. >> just pause for a moment on boehner on the highlights we had of what boehner's proposals are for how to fix the economy. one of them is fundamental tax reform. i think everybody agrees that fundamental tax reform is important. but it's not going to happen in the short-term. number two, he doesn't want -- he wants to see fewer regulations and wants to see no new taxes. so you look at that. is that that plan that recognizes that we have a jobs emergency in the country today? no, that might be from a republican point of view. that might be a reasonable way thinking about how do we restructure the economy going forward for the next 10 or 15 years. it's not a program that does anything to address the unemployment crisis that we have in the country right now. >> like going to war. we just didn't pay for it. we didn't deal with it. >> i -- i differ a bit. if we could have a permanent tax rate, if we could have a permanent tax reform structure where small businesses knew and

large corporations alike knew that their taxes weren't going up in two years. that the regulations weren't going to change, part of what the republicans are saying -- and this is -- this is the reality for business owners trying to figure out how do i plan? they don't just plan for the next three months or the next election, they plan for the next two years. if a business owner believes that there's going to be a temporary reduction of a tax rate, let's say, for 18 months and then it's going to sunset. after everything gets better, well, everything's not going to get better because they've got long-term plans. so when -- when you talk about tax reform and you talk about no new tax increases, it seems to me the only way that works is if it's permanent. i know a lot of business people that will say, okay, if you're going to raise my taxes, let me know, do it now. >> i want to know for an extended -- >> i want to know for an extended period of time. the same thing with environmental regulations.

okay. you want to change environmental regulations, okay, fine. give me time to prepare and make sure you're not going to change them again two years after that after i retro fit everything in my factory. there has to be consistency. and that's something just in my opinion the white house doesn't understand. the six-month -- the six-month tax holidays or two-year tax holidays still don't stop people from being frozen. >> let me ask you, though, off of the body of evidence we have over the last year, republican congress versus the president of the united states, how does a republican candidate for president run against the following line of argument from the president to the country? that the republicans would rather defeat me than help you, and i'll show you why. a, b, c, d. here's what they said, no, no, no, no. how do you run against that? >> i would say -- that's really easy, thank you. one of the easiest tests i've

had. >> all right. stay on task. >> anyway, you talk about some drop-down drunks. >> they're back on friday. >> they are back on friday. you take a bottle away from them for two seconds. no, that one's pretty easy, mike. you just say the president had a historic opportunity in 2009 when he got sworn in to create jobs, to do things that mike was saying back in march. instead he wasted 18 months, one of the most ideological battles imaginable on health care reform that if you talk to economists today will tell you didn't take care of the great problems. and he worried about cap and trade when he should've worried about jobs. he worried about -- and you go down the laundry list of things when he should've worried about jobs. and so, yeah, now the republicans have come in and they're trying to go a different direction.

but, again, i think most -- while most americans still blame george bush for this, they're not going to give the president a free ride. >> oh, i know that. >> and by the way, most americans it seems to me agree with if not the republican approach, the more conservative approach. they don't believe you can pass massive stimulus bills and get the economy going. >> the idea for most americans they may be waiting for 15 months before anything happens, i think is terrifying right now. >> it's ridiculous. >> well, john, though, what would you do? what's the plan? >> well, look -- >> to get people back to work. >> and by the way, joe, i understand that the long-term is really important on tax reform. but you know what the tax code's like. that's nothing we can do now between now -- >> what can we do between now and january? >> the president has offered a proposal. i will go back to one thing. i'm not saying this is going to fix all the problems, but this payroll tax cut on both sides employers and employees that republicans have supported historically and that a lot of

economists say would move the needle. that's not going to fix the crisis, but it would put some back to work. why republicans can't vote for something that they have voted for forever. tax cuts. they voted for back to the dawn of time. except for politics, there's no reason not to vote for this. cutting taxes on employees and employers. >> can't do it. >> in the words of sarah evans, that sounds like a real fine place to start. i think maybe we should. >> yeah. >> okay. listen, we're going to go counsel. go get them. >> they're our 2:00. >> coming up on "morning joe," moderator of meet the press david gregory. peggy noonan will join us also, eugene robinson. >> do you sense a lightness in the air? >> no. >> well, i do. don't you? >> i do. >> no, it's not the ac, it's not

working today. isn't that great? it's just kind of like a summer breeze. >> i'm not angry. >> why are you so angry? >> all of you bashing the president. >> we weren't bashing the president. >> we love the president. >> i mean, they don't even know how to say we want to work together when they don't. they just say we don't want to work with you and no. >> unbelievable! >> -- you're mad at us, we agree with you. >> i'm mad at you. >> can we see the first? but you know, just like peter and myself, we're uniters, not dividers. we love our president. we salute our president. we want him to succeed. up next, talk about different planets, the top stories in this morning's politico playbook. why there could be new trouble for white house chief of staff bill daley.

good morning, everyone. a major cooldown in the northeast this morning. temperatures starting out in the 40s, 50s, even 30s out there. 51 in central park. we have some 40s in new england. here's a look at the satellite picture nice and quiet. high pressure builds in today. we will have sunshine and temperatures will rebound nicely back to the mid to upper 60s. 67 in philly today. very chilly across the great lakes and upper midwest. but it's still warm in the south. later on today, it will be mostly cloudy in chicago, 61 degrees there. nice and quiet in the southwest. still hot in phoenix, 96 degrees there. quiet in l.a., 72 degrees with sun and clouds. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles

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hey, let's take a look at the morning papers this morning.

new jersey fire marshals swept in -- >> really? so we won't be -- >> all right. we'll start with the "new york times." >> can you believe it? 147 -- >> "new york times" debating the limits in the war against al qaeda and the allies. the white house legal team is split over how much room the u.s. has to kill militants in yemen and somalia. >> wait, hold on. hold on. shouldn't they debate this before they start killing people in yemen and somalia? >> the debate -- >> stop, no wait. they're killing them now. >> the debate centers on -- >> don't you have the debate before you start kill sng. >> if the u.s. can only attack high-level militant leaders with threats of attacks against the united states or if they can attack the lower level foot soldiers, as well. move on. move on.

>> what's that? >> should we have killed them? that's the thing. is it legal for us to do what we've been doing? i mean, we're dropping drones and killing people . the financial times, arrested in london on suspicion of doctoring the books potentially causing a $2 billion hole in the company's books. ubs warns that the discovery could result in a loss for the third quarter. >> and "usa today," under new enhanced pat-down procedures, the nfl wan-- looking for booze weapons, and other advanced items in the hopes of keeping fans safe. turning now to our parade of

papers. orlando sentinel, michelle obama has teamed up with the owner of red lobster, olive garden, and long horn steak house eliminating fries, adding fruit to kids menus. >> come on. that's insane. >> reducing sodium in all dishes by 10% in the next 15 years. good for her, good for them. and more restaurants -- should follow suit. >> and sunday's "parade," we're excited about that. inside brad pitt's world. it's brad pitt. he's the star of the new movie "money ball." what he lives for now. and whether he'd ever consider running for political office. mike? we've all read the book, "money ball." >> i've seen the movie. >> i've heard it's very good. tell us. >> it's not bad. it's not bad. brad pitt is very good. he's one of these guys, he's

brad pitt. >> yeah. >> but he disappears into the back of the movie although he's the star of the movie. he's very good in it. >> you get confused with brad pitt on the street, don't you, mike? >> yeah, just yesterday, somebody said, you're the pitt. >> let's go to politico, joe. >> okay. why don't we do that? we're going to bring in the chief white house correspondent for politico. a guy that does not recycle his fat, mike allen, he's here with the politico monday morning playbook. what's going on? i understand politico's reporting trouble in the white house as the president's chief of staff is struggling to try to fix the president's problems. >> well, first joe and mika, happy friday. >> happy friday. >> i needed that. >> everybody together, one two, three -- >> happy friday! >> mika, you better now? you better now? >> what was wrong with me? >> anger. seriously. so angry. >> nicely done.

well, who would've thought that in the west wing of the white house there would be rahm nostalgia? but there is. people liked the open-door policy that rahm emanuel had even though people were afraid to go in the door, they liked the fact the door was open. and bill daley's done exactly what he was brought in to do and that he's made it more streamlined, more efficient, and used to have 20 people, might have five people. there used to be an 8:30 meeting that the bosses sort of thought turned into a gab fest. he cut it out, cut it down only to friday. but people like the gab fest. so at a time when the west wing is taking it from all sides, bill daley is taking part of the blame. and the administration official tells us that months ago, he predicted that after the bad summer, there'd be a wave of bad stories about him. he said that's fine, i'd rather have them be about me than about

the president. >> well, and of course, bill clinton went through this also his first couple of years. everybody was -- it was an open-door policy, outside observers were shocked by the lack of discipline. he had david gergen and others come in. they closed the circle around, and it became a much more disciplined operation. it seems to me people complaining were probably the ones that were in all the gab fests. >> yeah, well, and another thing, bill daley is from another time. he's from a clubbier time when there was the sort of partisan warfare that there is now. and i think something that surfaced, these stories are questions about whether he was partly responsible for miscommunication with speaker boehner about the timing of that speech. he called the speaker and they had what both sides tell us was a little bit vague conversation about when the president wanted to have his joint address to congress. boehner said that he would talk about and get back to him.

bill daly assumed that the speaker would be fine with when the president wanted to do it. so then there was that big mess afterwards. >> right. so let's really quickly talk about the straight-talking governor from the state of texas. >> cover of "time" magazine. >> he's going to tell it to you straight. just like a coyote, you're going to shoot it -- shoot that coyote down and look at you in the eyes and talk to it straight. except the fact that politico's reporting he's got the most secr secretive state government in the united states. tell us about it. >> that's right. and who would've thought we'd have governor george w. bush nostalgia. but he was more open than rick perry's been. rick perry sticks very strictly to a schedule that allows the governor's office to delete e-mails after a week. so some bloggers gone to looking

at e-mails to try to look at them. most public meetings, george w. bush eventually release ehis longer public schedule which showed meetings. and people don't always know where governor rick perry is traveling. and they don't keep a record of guests of the mansion. that is something that george w. bush disclosed. >> is that safe to say that he's probably the most secretive governor in the united states? as far as his administration goes? >> he's the most scrutinized secretive governor. how's that? >> thank you, mike. >> happy weekend. >> yes, happy weekend to you. just your average september for boston red sox fans. the red sox drop a crucial game against the braves. we'll have the highlights. ♪

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i know you want to go to sports, but i went to the fashion show last night, guys. >> this was a big one. >> the women inspiration

sponsored by saks. and arianna huffington and donna karen put it together. i did a panel with donna karen who you see there. carol smith -- and we talked about a lot of different fabulous issues pertaining to women starting with fitness, fashion, with our panel. but the symposium is amazing. i know you guys are just fascinated, so we had to run this story. >> we are. fashion week is nothing -- >> i made a joke with myself. you forced me to walk the runway. and i thought, are you kidding me after those models? i almost lunged at the ceo of saks, but then we got through it. >> so, you know, there's some great shots there. what famous fashion photographer? >> oh, it was funny, it's weird, i'm on stage and click, click,

click of the cameras, and there's lewis. there's lewis, he showed up. >> in a dress? >> no, looking good. >> and ended up becoming a star of the show. >> i bet he was. >> inspiring envy among the women for his hair. >> funny, i said his name and he immediately ran his hand through his hair. >> isn't she great? >> yeah, she's an impeccable dresser, by the way. so she was perfect for the panel. but she's just a lot of fun. all of the panelists were. we had a great time. >> and a great label too. >> it's very -- i met the ceo, melissa. >> how is she? >> these women are impressive. >> they really are. >> speaking of impeccably dressed, so nice, we have peter alexander. >> a nightly news look. we're going to mix it up a little bit. there's some professional athletes that could use some

fashion help, like the terrapins. a crucial floor game set between the sox and tampa bay rays. rays are down four games. >> i didn't miss it, peter. >> i'm a cubs fan. i'm totally -- i fall nowhere into this debate. >> jump over the back! >> upton, the shortstop, off to avoid -- >> were he to get hit in the ankle and move the bat. >> he gets a grounder. two innings later, add a few more runs. the fastball, frank's in the bullpen center, rays up 4-0. red sox can't adjust to rays' pitching. the sox would lose nine runners stranded in the seventh, upton cranking it naili in the coffin. the rays beat the red sox 9 --

>> you know one thing we have going for us, mike, from this rays team, crawford. when crawford's put into position, two men on in the sixth inning and things are looking bad, he's going to wait for the pitch and come through. he lined the first one out weekly to left field. >> college football briefly, right. look at that. this is cornerback. the cornerback morris claiborne, look at the interception. the only touchdown in the fourth was jarrett lee for a 19-yard score. lsu defeats mississippi state, 19-6, by the way, northwestern wildcats coming to new york playing at west point tomorrow, huh. be there. >> you going? >> i'm going to try. coming up next, go cats --

chicago through and through. >> it's the most beautiful -- down the hill? man: all right. we were actually thinking, maybe... we're going to hike up here, so we'll catch up with you guys. [ indistinct talking and laughter ] whew! i think it's worth it. working with a partner you can trust is always a good decision.

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fema revealed that they partially gave the severity of disaster based on the condition of waffle house restaurants. the agency used a waffle house index. the southeastern chain prides itself in operating during severe natural disasters. fema says if a waffle house location is closed, they know that area needs aid. >> i say we cut out the government middle man and put the waffle house in charge of all our emergency operations. better to go with a sovereign american waffle house than the u.n.'s humanitarian breakfast response, the international house of pancakes. they will just pass a useless

non-binding resolution declaring the disaster not so fresh and fruity. >> 43 past the hour. time now for the must-read opinion pages. we'll start with paul krugman. entitled "free to die" and in response to what he said at one of the republican debates where it seems people were clapping at inappropriate times. maybe they just really meant it. he writes this. what this means is that modern conservatism is actually a deeply radical movement. one that is hostile to the kind of society we've had for the past three generations, that is a society that acting through government tries to mitigate some of the common hazards of life through such programs as social security, unemployment insurance, medicare, and medicaid. are voters ready to embrace such a radical rejection of the kind of america we've all grown up in? i guess we'll find out next year. want me to move on? >> sure. >> okay.

>> i'm not saying a word. >> why not? do you agree? >> what's next? >> washington post, the great ponzi scheme. when franklin roosevelt created social security choosing 65 as the eligibility age, life expectancy was 62. today it's almost 80. fdr wanted to prevent the aged few from suffering destitution in the last remaining years. social security was not meant to provide two decades of greens fees for baby boomers. of course it's a ponzi scheme, so what? it's the most vital, humane, and fixable of all the programs. the question is, forget ponzi, are you going to fix social security? >> thank you. mike, spoken like a rational, bright man, he's brilliant, in fact. but he is the conservative's conservative and sounds like he's talking to rick perry and some other extremists in the party saying stop this nonsense, how do you fix it?

>> and they ought to stop. because it is the most easily remedied of social legislation. raise the retirement age. you have means testing, and the thing is taken care of. >> yeah. >> it's also as acknowledged here, probably the most single successful government program of the modern era. we had large scale destitution of the elderly before social security was passed. it has largely remedied that problem. >> and the numbers don't add up right now. you know, you have 15 people working for every one person on social security in the 50s. three working for every one on social security now. there'll be two working for every one on social security. so there are a number of problems. no doubt about it. but as charles said, it can be easily fixable. and you have what paul krugman writing what paul krugman's writing about because he's

obviously an ideologue. but what he heard in these republican debates were ideologues on the other side behaving badly. i think it can be said that when some of the audience cheer for the death of a young person uninsured, it shows just how bonkers one segment of society has become. >> and on the other side of that, when you have the simpson/bowles commission, you have people on the far left saying raising the retirement age by the year 2065, 50 years down the road, you have people on the far left saying you're killing seniors. >> killing old people. we had unions, nancy pelosi, other people putting out statements it's a shame poor people -- not poor, old people are going to be thrown out on the streets. really? as i said before, again, my two oldest children are not going to

be affected by simpson/bowles social security changes, my 3-year-old will. so maybe the aflcio, nancy pelosi, and others can start a support group for 3-year-olds who are going to have to give their social security at 67 instead of 65. it's a joke. it's a joke on both sides. >> yeah. >> what are you looking at? >> well, it's so great. look at this picture. this is a little girl -- it's her 13th birthday. and her dad came home from afghanistan to surprise her. >> sergeant first class david young gave his daughter katie young an early 13th birthday surprise like no other yesterday. returning from four months of duty in afghanistan to greet her at the school. the national guardsman from townsend will end his deployment in eight more months. >> he walked across the

cafeteria and she saw him and wrapped her arms and legs around him. >> here's another photo that people ought to be aware of. yesterday corporal dakota myer the united states marine corps medal of honor recipient and the president of the united states after a moving ceremony in the white house. >> saved 13 lives. >> wow. >> my best memory of fitchburg is seeing it in the rearview mirror -- >> oh, stop it. coming up we've got peggy and eugene robinson. they join the conversation. and also the people of fitchburg have their time. a place of intelligence. ♪ across the nation over 100,000 miles of highways and bridges are in disrepair. add to that, countless distractions every mile... ♪ ...millions of ill-equipped vehicles...

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yes, before you begin, i should put it on the record, john asked me my memories of massachusetts growing up. >> you love it. you always talk about it. you go into his office, he's got all these pictures. like a norman rockwell painting. >> seriously. >> that was the joke on the set. that's haul he talks about. i'm like sick and tired of him talking about how great it is. >> that clarified, willie taking the day off. >> i will tell you why, you do trash chicago and northwestern every single day. >> here's willie's weekend review always. >> reporter: there was some kind of sexual activity going on in the bathrooms, the lavatories on the plane. >> at number three, a mile-high scare. >> he was in there a good ten minutes, came out, smiled at the

other guy, he went in and he was in there for quite a while. >> reporter: with the country on high alert for the tenth anniversary of 9/11, it seemed at first that some airline passengers were proving that terrorists had not won by joining the mile-high club. >> two people that i would ha have -- that i saw go up early on in to the front lavatory. >> reporter: f-16s were scrambled on sunday, september 11th, to escort two separate commercial flights for what a law enforcement official called suspicious behavior in the bathroom. although disputed later may have included "making out." >> reporter: and there was some kind of sexual activity going on. >> at number two, the gumby bandit turns himself in. it finally was safe to go outside again in southern california this week. after an idiot who tried and failed to rob a seven-eleven on labor day using a gumby costume as a disguise surrendered himself and the costume to san diego police.

>> the nerve of that guy. >> reporter: the 19-year-old fugitive made himself famous by storming into the store in full gumby gear demanding all the money in the register and making it out with not even a nickel in his hand. >> remember, there was a full moon last night. >> reporter: and the number one story of the week. >> if you love me, you've got to help me pass this bill. >> reporter: president obama was out on the road this week pushing his jobs proposal while the republican crew fighting to take his job was having a tea party-sponsored throwdown. >> i think governor perry would agree with me that if you -- >> you were doing pretty good until you got stopped in poker. >> rick perry on jobs and social security while michele bauchmann

hit the front-runner on crony capitalism and hpv vaccine. >> if you're saying i can be bought for 5,000, i'm offended. >> i'm offended for all the little girls and parents that didn't have a choice. >> she told me her little daughter took that vaccine, that injection and she suffered from mental retardation thereafter. >> reporter: later in the week, though, perry got the only support that really matters at the end of the day, scoring a dinner date in new york with king maker and lover of all things gold-plated, donald j. trump. >> you're fired, you're fired. you're fired! you're fired. you're fired. >> back in the debate hall, the crowd cheered oddly for letting the uninsured die. >> congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die? >> no -- >> and did not cheer even a little bit for jon huntsman

18-year-old nirvana reference. >> one topic shamefully absent, what to do about the breaches in our nation's defense against mile-high club membership. >> reporter: there was some kind of sexual activity going on. >> um, yeah. >> yep. >> how do we raise the bar a little bit? >> one way really, peter. and he's going to tell us now. >> the "wall street journal" peggy noonan. >> thank goodness. also, the "washington post's" eugene robinson. we'll be right back. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus!

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government mandated, government-run health care. it is part of what he put in place as the governor of massachusetts. it is time -- i think it's very important that we put someone as our nominee that does not blur the lines between president obama and the republican party. >> the massachusetts plan was crafted for massachusetts, for the needs of 8% of our population that didn't have insurance, not for the 92% that did. obama care is a plan that takes over 100% of the people in this country and their health care. and that's one of the reasons why people don't want it. so our plan was a model for other states to copy. some states have copied parts of

it. but it is not a plan to have a one-size-fits-all approach. i've said that from the beginning, i continue to say it. >> welcome back to "morning joe." look at that traffic in the tri-state area. if you're coming into new york, you're going to hit a few snags. mike and john are still with us, and joining the table, columnist for the "wall street journal," peggy noonan, good to have you this morning. >> good morning. >> and in washington, we have the associate editor of the "washington post," eugene robinson. >> peggy, thanks for being with us. peggy, in your latest column, you talk about a "disaster cluster." of one bad election after another for democrats. scott brown's victory all the way to what happened on tuesday. is that an overread? or is this something the white house should be worried about? >> i think james carville gave good advice yesterday when he

wrote on his blog. advice to democrats. he said the only thing to do now is panic. i mean, there have been a series of elections in which the president's party lost. and i think at the heart of all of these contests one way or another, there is simply a referendum going on about the president's leadership. and i think it is very problematic for the democrats. >> you know what was so fascinating, gene robinson, in this race, is that you had a social conservative running in a liberal district. and people can say -- no, it is a liberal district. anthony weiner was one of the most progressive members when it came to health care. and he won the district easily. and you had a guy that was actually running as a social conservative, no apologies on god, gays, guns, et cetera, et cetera, which i think nobody really voted on those issues. i think it shows just the level

of contempt that a lot of democrats and independents have for this white house and the direction of the country. >> you don't think it had anything to do with the events from woener? weiner? >> it could have something to do with anthony weiner. >> some? >> it might have had something to do with anthony weiner. but this is a tough election for democrats, absolutely. and shows just how sour the mood is -- not just out there, we always talk about how things are out there. but, you know, that new york district is kind of in here, in the sense that it was a safe democratic district for a long time. and it's not anymore. now, does that mean that the thing to do is to panic? i'm not sure that panic is the way i would characterize what i would think would be an appropriate response. but it certainly concentrates the -- concentrates the mind and should concentrate, i think, the

efforts of democrats to get back on the right side of the voters. >> you know, i think gene, good morning to you. i think part of the story with the weiner replacement race in new york is that the old bill clinton coalition, which had been the old rudy giuliani coalition, which was catholics, jews, the white middle class, they went for the republican when previously, say in presidential elections, they've gone for the democrats. the idea that that coalition, the clinton, bill clinton coalition may be breaking up now is a -- a historic and really significant fact that i think we're starting to see. >> but wait -- you know, peggy, predictions of that coalition's

demise have been premature. >> but it happened here. >> well, well, it happened here, it hasn't happened elsewhere. look, look, if you want to look, for example, at democrats. what president obama's ratings are with the jewish community, for example. and they're clearly down. but his approval ratings are down across the board. they're not particularly down worse in the jewish community than they are elsewhere. in the same, you recall all the predictions four years ago that he could never win the votes of white working class americans. and, in fact, democrats did in 2008. so again, that's -- i'm not saying that it couldn't happen, i'm just saying that we've gone out on this limb before and it hasn't been true. i think this is a durable coalition. i think voters are in a bad

mood. >> voters are in a bad mood. we had steve ratner talking about consumer confidence. what's fascinating about new york 09 and also the nevada special election which wasn't a big shock. but the margin a victory was a big shock. voters have said if you read poll after poll that there's a curse on both parties. they hated how both sides handled the debt ceiling debacle. and yet, despite the fact republicans' approval are at 12%, 13% for running the house, it is the president at the end of the day that got punished in these two special elections, which i think at the end of the day may be predictive of what happens next year all things being equal. who are you going to punish? the house for being reckless and irresponsible? or are you going to punish the president of united states for being inept? and right now looks like the president will be punished.

>> as you know, specialized elections just a few months ago -- >> new york 26. >> new york 26 went the other way in a few months. i don't know. i will say this is a weird district. an unusual district. the district is 1/3 jewish, the most jewish congressional district in the country, and of those jews, 1/3 are orthodox jews. contrary to what gene said, with the jewish community is horrible. on inauguration day he had an approval rating of 83%. yesterday, he's got an approval rating with jews of 55%. that's a 28-point drop among jewish americans, and a 28-point drop in a district like this where ed koch turned into a referendum -- >> a state like florida. >> an orthodox jew himself, it's all very complicated, but i think this is yet another sign that this coalition may not hold. >> and i think to your point, to me the main thing that that race

with obama, the main thing i'd be worried about is florida and pennsylvania. where close races, the jewish vote is big enough in both of those states to swing the election. and right now, i guess i say, he's down 28 points. >> and i can tell you, mike, the impact this has on the board as you move forward. again, if you take florida off the board. and of course, the obama team won't be doing that right now. but i remember going into 2004. we all remember florida, florida, florida from 2000. as tim talked about. everybody thought 2004 was going to be close. i remember tim 15 minutes into the count, and you remember i was heavily medicated with my back injury at the time. anyway, i can't believe i even remember this. but i remember calling my friend in florida and asked how the numbers coming in in broward, miami-dade, and palm beach county? because republicans usually lose those by 250,000.

bush kept it under 200,000. i knew at 15 after, that race was over because jewish voters in broward county -- enough of them felt comfortable with george w. bush's position on israel that they weren't reflectively going to vote for the democrats. and i just, again, a long way off. i will tell you what, if i were in the obama team, i would not be counting on florida in my electoral strategy. i'd be doubling down in ohio and michigan and pennsylvania. >> yeah. you know, it's been interesting listening to this for the past few minutes. because in my mind, if you're going to look at the state of politics today, you really have to look back nearly 80 years for a match to what's happening, i think. because what's out there is this huge apprehension about the president with people leaning toward fearful about the future.

you can talk about interest groups, talk about coalitions, but the shock that went through this country in the fall of 2008 -- there's no more pensions, remember. when people saw their 401s collapse, looked at their kids, 15, 16 in high school, college on the horizon. a, can we afford it? b, they're never going to have the shot in this country that i've had. parents thinking that. and that kind of shock, that kind of cultural, social shock is way above politics in terms of a threat to president obama or any other incumbent. >> the assumption that the next generation would be better. >> yes. >> absolutely. >> can i ask a question, please? >> we need to get gene's piece in, and then we would love to answer your question. >> i want to hear your question. it's interesting as we look

ahead to the next 15 months and whether or not anything will get done and whether or not this country can wait, 2012 the elections. eugene asked the question, where are the compassionate conservatives? perry who was leading in the polls wants to make the federal government inconsequential. he thinks social security's a ponzi scheme and a monstrous lie. he doesn't much like medicare either. we were clearly sending a message to young people regardless of what the sound of their last name is, but we believe in you perry. the candidates bashed him until the evening's only glimmer of moral responsibility was snuffed out. so are you saying, eugene, that there's not one compassionate conservative on the republican side there? >> well, you know, jon huntsman, you know, maybe, but he's not going to win the nomination.

you know, i just didn't hear a lot of compassion in that debate in the tea party debate. what i heard was no, no, no -- even aside from the infamous ron paul question about the man in the coma. there was no sense, for example, that when we talk about demonized government as this evil thing that, you know, gee, there's school teachers and there are firefighters and there are police officers out there who protect us, who take care of our -- teach our children. they're nice people and happen to be public servants. there's no sort of sense that when we talk about slashing and cutting and that people could be affected by this. and i wondered where that moral dimension was. i didn't hear it.

>> would you be offended if a candidate said that teachers and firefighters and public employees are really, really nice people and we love and we respect them? but instead of paying 0% in for their health care, 0% in for their benefits, 0% in for everything that maybe they should pay 2% or 3% in. would that make me a hater? or would i still be compassionate if i think they should pay 12% or 15% less than what other americans pay for their health care? is it hateful to make them pay more than 0% into their health care plans? does that make -- >> no. >> i don't want to be a hater, i just want love. >> he wants to be compassionate. >> i know you swore off the hateration years ago. >> last week. >> no, that doesn't make you a hater. that's a policy question. and you can -- you can ask, for example, teachers, how should they be compensated, how much should they make? i think what they do is incredibly valuable, but no, that in and of itself doesn't

make you a hater. most teachers, in fact, pay more than that. you're talking about the new jersey situation, right? >> well, there are actually a lot of other states in florida also. but let's go to parts of this debate following up what gene said because of great concern. because i have great concern when you have people in the crowd wildly applauding record number of death penalty executions. when you even have pat robertson years ago having second thoughts about the increasing number of death penalties and wondering whether we're executing too many people too quickly without asking enough questions. i'm telling you, i -- i was a tea party guy before tea party was popular. you can look at my thousands of votes from 1995 to 2001, and you will not find anybody, nobody other than maybe ron paul that was more small government than me.

you just won't. it is a matter of record. a matter of record. and yet when i was watching the debate the other night and i heard some people applauding the death of a young man without health insurance -- or some of the other applause or quite frankly some of the responses to some things that rick perry said that would've got him laughed out of a middle school classroom. i sat there and said who are those people in that room? and where in the hell is my conservative party? because i will tell you, these people -- for the record, america, these are the people that bill buckley kicked out of the conservative movement in the mid-1960s. these are the people that he said have nothing to do with what i am and what conservatism is. >> so you think the tea party now consists of old birchite

thinking? >> i'm not painting that broad brush over the tea party movement at all. i think there are elements, though, that our candidates are focusing on too much and they're playing to the lowest common denominator in a way that doom conservatives to make gains next year in a race for the white house. >> well, i don't disagree with you. it's gotten a little bit polar out there. i would say, however, we shouldn't over think this. if you go to a democratic party meeting historically in new york, there's always an old guy in the back who's muttering around saying -- some left wing sort of fellow. on the republican side, there's always somebody who's birchite, very right-wing in the background or muttering to himself that barry goldwater was too liberal.

>> but we don't have one or two -- hold on, we don't have one or two people here, we've got rick perry who is leading the field right now saying that americans should not be able to vote for senators. we've got rick perry saying that social security's a monstrous lie and that it is unconstitutional. we have rick perry saying some pretty remarkable things and still being ahead in the polls. now listen, i understand about the crack pots muttering in the back of the rooms, i've seen them a thousand times in town hall meetings -- >> there's no movement out there. there's no -- there was no menchovich debate in the next cycle. i don't think that's an equivalent. i don't think that's equal there. >> that's just a phenomenon that exists in both parties. we see a little bit of it when we see tv and when we cut to the clip of the wacky-looking person. there's just a little of it out

there. >> i've always had this question -- >> i do have to say on this point, the networks will always cut away to the crack pot signs when it's a conservative movement. when it's a liberal rally, they never cut away to the crowd. >> i think what you're saying is republicans better remember that great elections are won in the center. and you cannot get carried away. no matter what kind of moment you think it is in history. no matter what is going on. >> you know what? they are -- here's what i'm saying. these republicans, that are on stage right now are running in a republican primary in a conservative district in an off-year election. they have no sense of what happens in presidential years where the voting roles swell, the american population moves to the center, and things they say today will haunt them next

november. >> i agree with all of that. but i actually just want to focus on one thing that has always perplexed me and you republicans may be able to explain for me better. i found that moment, which is not a single crack pot. as you know, you were there peggy, at that politico debate. loud sustained applause over the number of people perry had executed. here's my question, if republican party is the party of life. pro-life is a respectful decision. there are good reasons people object to abortion. if it's the party of life, how can it be both that and the party that in large measure applauds wildly the execution of many, many people. i understand it's also law and order party. but if you were -- it's one thing to say that we want to see justice carried out. it's another thing to cheer the largest number of executions in the country -- if you are pro-life. >> i was there and i was shocked. i will tell you. it was actually -- >> to his question -- quick

addendum to his question. and what would happen if one of the other candidates on the stage, mitt romney had said, wait a minute, what are you people doing? >> that would have been great. >> it would have been a great moment. in defense of the candidates, i've got to say were taken aback too. i don't think they'd had a moment like that where someone brings up a legitimate question about the death penalty and an audience bursts into applause over the idea of it. so look, i think it was surprising. guys, all i want to say is i think the republican party could be entering a sort of whitewater/monica lewinski moment where they're off on a tare and forgetting how they look and an elemental stability. >> and if they were taken aback, a few minutes later, they could have said what they felt about

that too. that wasn't right. we're better than this. >> i feel like in fairness -- >> if you're right about republicans, peggy, if that's true, that is the thing that will re-elect barack obama. that's barack obama's last best hope. >> barack obama cannot win in 2012, i believe, but the republicans can lose. >> wow. >> thrown off balance by applause, they can't say anything. toughen up. -- in the sports program. is it time for schools to start paying their college athletes? we're going to be talking later. and up next, we've got david gregory here joining in on the conversation. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. >> so, ah, your seat good?

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just stay off the freeways, all right? i don't want you going out on those yet. and leave your phone in your purse, i don't want you texting. >> daddy... ok! ok, here you go. be careful. >> thanks dad. >> and call me--but not while you're driving. we knew this day was coming. that's why we bought a subaru.

the tea party wants the same

thing i want. they want less spending in washington, they want to stop this regulatory onslaught that's underway, and they want a fairer, flatter tax code. there's nothing radical about what they're asking for. when it comes to the party of no, the president tried that all year. yes, it's going to be no to higher taxes, it'll be no to excessive regulations. we've had ideas all yearlong and we've passed dozens of bills that will help get our economy moving and help job creators. they're all sitting in the united states senate. >> welcome back to "morning joe," 26 past the hour, joining us now from washington, the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. good to have you back on the show. >> good morning. >> john boehner, i'm a little frustrated this morning. >> mika's very angry this morning, david. we're glad you weren't here to see it. >> different planets? really? i mean, i don't understand how -- >> are you asking the question? >> okay. >> go ahead.

ask him the question. >> maybe you should. are either sides -- it seems the president sort of plans forward that the republicans can save face on, but they're still saying no. is there any other way to characterize what john boehner is saying except no? >> i don't think there is. i think the worst thing that can be said this morning is we're starting to see the replay of the debt ceiling debate. if either side thinks that's a good idea, they're not studying what went wrong. the politics of the moment is the politics of getting something done. republicans did not come out very well from the debt ceiling debate. we know the president has not come out well. the president's got two problems. he's got to get across to the american people that he's actually fighting for them, he cares about people like them. and host got to get something done when the economy keeps going down. republicans, on the other hand, also have to understand that speaker boehner can say that there's no difference between what he views and what the tea

party views. the problem is the tea party is willing to not accomplish anything on the ground of principle. i don't think that's going to fly. you're talking about the center of the electorate that ultimately is going to decide an election. there is a room for government right now. there's room for government to be doing something in this economy. republicans and democrats believe that. and if the only alternative is no agreement, that's -- that's not a good outcome. >> david, i want to go through poll numbers from gallup out today. what's the most important problem facing the united states? unemployment's at 39%. the economy at 28%. so between unemployment and the economy, you're looking at, gosh, 57%. that's pretty significant. dissatisfaction of the government, 14%, the deficit, 12%. to your question, should congress support obama's jobs bill, and what do american people want? 45% say republicans should.

32% say they should not, 23% say they should not know. and then the president's daily tracking numbers, barack obama 39% approval rating, 53% disapproval rating. so taken all together, a lot of different trend lines, the president's approval rating down. and yet, americans seem to want republicans, at least by plurality to support the president's jobs bill. >> well, and i -- in some way, if you break it all up, people will have different views about different aspects of it. raising taxes, the view of cutting payroll taxes, how things will be paid for not dealing with social security, which i realize is more of the debt commission. here's the thing, joe. you know this better than anybody. congress is on one track in terms of election and what people think about the job that they're doing. and the presidency is something else. mitt romney had probably one of the most effective lines of this campaign, which is that

president obama's a good guy, but he doesn't have a clue when it comes to fixing this economy. that's the argument he's going to make. to support that argument, you could say, look, i'm not going to support this jobs bill because this isn't really dealing with the problem. and i don't want to do just do something for something's sake. we've got to do something -- the big things, get those right to ultimately help the economy. that may be the debate that everybody wants to have in 2012. but, again, if right now the republican playbook is, look, we can't give obama anything on this issue because ultimately we start to own part of the problem if it doesn't work and he gets to own all of the solution if it does. if that's the only answer, we've seen from the debt debate that americans are going to punish anybody who doesn't do something under these conditions when anxiety is so high. one other point, look at housing policy. easily as hard as the entitlement issues and they don't want to talk about that either. >> i think it's unbelievable we haven't heard about housing. mike?

>> well, the housing thing is a whole separate thing. maybe we can talk to david about that a bit later. but the debt reduction debate. you indicated what you see now is a reprieve of that debt reduction debate that's going to go on now for another few months over another issue. so my question to you is are public people, elected officials in washington, d.c. so ignorant of the reality in this country that they can't figure out when they go to their home districts or home states that when they drive past shopping malls where the parking lot is half filled instead of fully filled that that is a direct result of their inability to get together in washington? people who are afraid to shop -- >> right. and i think what's really important about this is, you know, government does have limited tools to actually affect economic growth which ultimately leads to more jobs. but they do have something to do when it comes to leadership and some sense of certainty.

and that's what people are lacking. i mean, whether it's businesses who want to hire or individuals who are going to spend, you know, somebody pointed something out to me the other day, which is interesting. it's not just businesses. but if you're, you know, 70 years old and you really do worry about whether congress is going to mess around so much that you may not get your social security check, you may want to just save a little bit more and spend a little less. so it's not just ge, but it's grandmothers and grandpas out there saying, there's no leadership there, they might actually take this thing off a cliff. and that's to your point, mike, which is leadership matters. >> gene robinson? >> david, one way to read the polls is people basically agree with the president on the issue but want him to get it done over the objections of republicans. does that not just encourage republicans to continue saying no and don't we almost get back to this sort of debt ceiling clash that ends up being bad for everybody? >> well, i think we -- we may

ultimately get there. because from the president's point of view, if he wants to do better as a politician, then he's going to have to take the fight to the republicans and ultimately campaign against them as a do-nothing congress. we've seen this movie before. it may be the ultimate play he's got. he's got something now on this bill that we haven't seen a lot of before, which is he's going out there and selling it. i mean the mantra of pass this bill is not really indicative of barack obama's style as president obama. and he's going to that arguably late in this first term, but he's still going to it to say, look, i will campaign against them if i have to. i think time dwindles. as time runs out, this is going to be a debate about small things and big things. the big things about the deficit, and the small things about what incremental steps government can take to move the economy a little bit. >> so, david, you've got a big "meet the press" this weekend. very exciting. tell us what it's about. >> leader mcconnell for the republicans on this issue, the republican playbook for getting the economy going.

and then former president clinton who might have a thing or two to say about all this angst in the democratic party about the president's reelection. also, can i mention one other thing? our conversation is now going to be seen on television on wrc here in washington, d.c. and nancy brinker talking about the fight against breast cancer is something you'll find after "meet the press" in washington, d.c. on sunday. up next, she insists she doesn't want to run for president. but could a new presidential poll change hillary clinton's mind? >> no. >> no. >> we'll have that when "morning joe" comes back. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪

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did you get the batteries back in? i don't even want to know. >> what did jesus say? if you love me -- >> exactly what he sounded like -- >> if you love me, feed my sheep. >> if you love me, pass my commandments. i have these ten commandments, we must pass these commandments. >> what did he say on the campaign trail? >> if you love me -- isn't that the quote? if you love me -- >> something close to that. >> very good.

>> have the oceans began to recede? >> if you love me -- >> we have all these couples, first. a lot of work to do. we are the change that we were waiting for. >> we've got the boils coming at 4:00. >> susan boyle sang that song. there's a new bloomberg poll out, mika. and this is very interesting because when the president was running around saying elect me and the earth will heal itself and the oceans will recede, he was running against hillary clinton at the time. my girlfriend. not ashamed of saying my girlfriend. >> a growing number of americans are having so-called buyers remorse saying the country would be better off if secretary clinton became president in 2008. 13% of those polled said the country would be in a worse position and 47% said things would be the same with clinton

as they are with obama. clinton's favorability on the rise at 64%. >> john, you have predicted. let's lay the marker downright here off-air that hillary clinton will be president of the united states in 2016. >> january 23rd, 2017, after the failed obama presidency, followed by the failed romney one-term presidency, we'll have the inauguration of another clinton. >> coming up -- >> peggy, what do you think? >> i think it's a period of general instability and i would not be shocked if we were in a time of a series of one-term presidents. >> something unusual could happen, as well. coming up, like independent candidates from our side. coming up, should college candidates be paid? the real scandal of college sports. student athletes generating billions for others while earning nothing for themselves. we'll debate that question next.

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with us now from washington, d.c. is the editor and chief, the story is on the shame of college sports. and on the article, argues that student athletes should be paid. it's something we've been talking about for a long time here. especially cropped up after the ohio state scandal where you have guys having to trade in their championship rings to get basic necessities in life like tattoos. >> well. >> and what always irritates me is a college will send their coach to go recruit a kid into a poor neighborhood, beg them to

come, but then the mom and dad can't fly across the country to oklahoma to see their son play for four years. but if they do, it's a violation. while the kid's making tens of millions of dollars for the university, it's sick. >> and the corporate sponsors. >> sick. >> and we've had a series of scandals, scandal after scandal and rules that nibble around the edges of the problem. when the fundamental issue is that this, you know, this ideal of amateurism that we have that we're trying to protect these students from being exploited is the very thing that's allowing them to be exploited on behalf of all of these powerful interests. >> yeah, no doubt about it. and now, you've spoke to leading civil rights authority, taylor branch. do you think that there is a racial element to this? exploitation? >> yeah. i mean, taylor did our story. and he won for his coverage of the civil rights movement for

his multi-volume history of martin luther king. and as inescapable as he says has a whiff of the plantation about it. although in the end he argues it's more akin to colonialism in the sense that this whole system is propped up by this condescending attitude that we're actually taking care of these young people who need to be guided through life such as the colonial powers justified their continued exploitation of the countries they colonized. >> and gene robinson, it's also been striking for me being an alabama fan, growing up following, cheering an alabama player, usually an african-american that is extraordinary on the field, and then hearing two or three years later if they got injured their junior or senior year and i can name scores of them, finding out that they're bagging groceries at the local pigly wiggly.

which, again, these same players were players who weren't walking well because of broken legs or knees, and yet they sacrificed and their university made millions off of their performances. that seems to me to be immoral. >> well, yeah. i think that's immoral, i think that's unfair. and, you know, you and i both went to big football schools. football is the -- is a sport in which knees get torn up and really, you know, these kids who don't make it to the nfl don't have the huge bucks to cushion their lives. you know, they end up kind of being disabled for life in a lot of ways or, you know, early onset arthritis and all sorts of things that happen to them from playing football. i'm curious, though, about the distinction between those big-time athletes who are playing college sports to try to get to the pros. and, you know, other college athletes perhaps in other sports who were there for the

scholarships. and i wonder how do you -- how do you draw the line between those who, i think, probably should be compensated in some way, should share in this bounty and those who don't? does taylor have some ideas about that, james? >> yeugene, it's tough -- and there's so many complexities when you start thinking about how we would actually pay athletes. what would it do to the other sports programs that are propped up by receipts from football or basketball that wouldn't earn revenue on their own? i don't pretend to know all the answers to those questions. but i think the first step toward the solution in what taylor argues is that college sports should do something like the olympics did, which is give the athletes a voice. allow them to have a say in their own governance. put some of the athletes on the governing bodies and let them work out solutions. in the case of the olympics, everybody said the same thing, you allow them to be paid, it's going to destroy the spirit of

the games, it's going to destroy the games themselves. actually, it didn't. the games if anything have gotten better. and if we treat these students like what they are, which is adults, and give them some say, we'll be begin working our way towards some sort of a solution. >> hey, jim, i have a question for you. the shame of college sports, it's a terrific piece. my question to you is, you know, you look at the cover "the shame of college sports," taylor branch, he's that major league pulitzer prize winner who covered the civil rights era. was it your idea? his idea? how did this happen? >> both of our ideas. he's been working on this story for over a year. this has been -- he put a ton of work, ton of reporting into this. he had a bunch of ideas he came to us with we were kicking around various things he might do, and this was one of them.

taylor was recruited to play college football. he didn't play it in the end. and he is fascinated by the game, he loves the game. and in fact, he went into the story thinking he was going to write about how could you fix the existing system? but the deeper he got into it, the more he saw of the heart of this system. the more he thought that's not an option anymore. we need to fix it. the very term, i think there's a lot of fascinating history in this piece. but the very term student athlete, which sounds like such a wonderful thing was created in the '50s to protect the schools from since they're students, they're not eligible for anything for the hundreds of athletes that get injured every year, they're not eligible for compensation. >> peter alexander. we have the back drop of the university of texas channel now, the first university that for $300 million just sold the rights for the next 20 seasons. so the money is just continuing to come in.

now schools going independent and raising the money. and one of the examples that is written about by taylor in this piece is aj green, a wide receiver at georgia who after his performance in the 2009 independence bowl sold his jersey, where -- for 1,000 bucks. then he had to sit out four games the next season, ultimately ended up going pro, and the school sells thousands of these jerseys for 40 bucks at the corner. is there any way as we talk about student athletes to create some relationship between them being students and if they stay for more than one year or two years that perhaps they're able to get some stipend that grows to try to create an incentive for them to stick around? has taylor discussed that in any form? >> he doesn't get into that kind of detail, but that's the kind of solution that could make a lot of sense. you know, right now these guys are -- the scholarships are renewed each year. for athletes. so if you don't play -- if you get cut from the team, you're also going to lose your scholarship and get cut from your school. >> oh, goodness.

james bennett, thank you very much. eugene robinson, thank you, as well. good to see you. >> thank you, guys. that's fascinating. >> this is all about bennett having been like the third string first baseman on the baseball team. >> i know. >> and feeling exploited and feeling like he wasn't treated fairly. that's what this whole thing -- motivations here are very personal. >> he would have started at princeton. >> i have one piece of great sports trivia. do i have a second? john heilmann as a young man -- >> the answer is go. go ahead. >> gave up a towering home run to none other than darryl strawberry. >> i knew that. >> really? >> high school. >> yeah. >> still haunts me. >> well, where was the pitch? what was it, fastball, straight down the middle? >> it was a really good pitch. >> was it? >> it was a really good pitch. you know, 4 inches below -- >> did your hand hurt? >> and he had had taken the first one for a strike and they looked at the second one and i thought i could sneak another one by, and about 590 feet.

i think the ball is still orbiting the earth. >> did the team move when he hit it? >> we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no! but it's more money. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. what's in your wallet? woah! [ giggles ] ♪ whoa! hey! [ dog barks, growls ] ♪ whoa, watch out, little man. ♪ [ male announcer ] when you take away the worry, it's easy to enjoy the ride. hey, bud. hey, dad.

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♪ monday morning you sure look fine ♪ ♪ ♪ welcome back to "morning joe" coming up monday, director rob reiner is going to join the set. back in a moment with mike barnicle, peggy noonan joining the table.

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♪ i've had a lot of conversations with the president. a lot of negotiations on the debt ceiling and other issues this year. and it's almost as if we're two groups of people from two different planets who barely understand each other. you know, i come to this job having run a small business. the president and his staff, most of them, have never been in the private sector. and so we've got these competing ideas.

i'm a big believer in the free enterprise system. the president and his staff tend to believe that government has more control over our economy. ♪ and i won't back down good morning, it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on-set, we have mike barnicle, peter alexander -- >> counselser, good to see you. >> and john heilmann. >> fascinating, what john boehner said. would you agree with that? >> no. >> did you hear what he said? >> i thought it was just -- that's just more of what we don't need. >> no. i mean, i think he said we come from the perspective we believe in small business and individuals having a bigger say in the economy. >> uh-huh. >> but the obama administration believes in the government taking -- >> we come from different planets. and, you know, there's no bridge. >> that's the -- but isn't that -- isn't that the divide? the presumptions? >> obama is from mars. >> sometimes people have disagreed on these things. but you know what, their job is

to work it out. and their job is not to say we're on different planets and therefore, it's over. seriously? now? they can -- it's going to be on them. and i hope this president says that. it's on you. >> can i just tell you -- >> trying to help you. but it's on you. >> before we got here, peter alexander and i ran a marriage counseling firm in washington, d.c. >> we did. >> and there were a lot of times we didn't think we were going to bring those couples together. >> right. >> we did it. >> we also crashed weddings, but that's another part of the story. and eventually funerals. but what peter and i found out was that -- >> funeral crashing and bar mitts vas. >> you have got to first understand. and peter i know will back me up. the positions of the two conflicted parties. >> yeah, i'm hearing it. >> you get a good understanding. and then that's when we move them towards resolution. towards reconciliation. >> okay. >> towards -- >> help us with this problem, joe and peter. >> yes. >> we've got a president saying, here's a plan. and you know what, it's a plan

that democrats and republicans can support, and here's why. and i'm reaching out to you, and i'm putting it out there, because our country is in crisis. and then you've got the speaker of the house, who happens to be a republican, saying, we're on different planets. no. how do you fix that? >> listen, peter -- you listen, don't you peter? >> when you crash the funerals, you really have to put yourself in both parties' positions. >> oh, really? alex just tried to clarify in my mind and said that boehner is trying to look for common ground, as well. really? how long are we supposed to wait for that? really? how many jobs should we lose? how many more people ought to lose their homes while he sits there and searches for common ground? >> and we're back. >> where is this anger coming from? >> i don't know. why does she hate -- >> i'm really tired of everyone -- >> feel such sorrow. >> if you listen to the speaker of the house, mika. >> yeah. >> and if you have been -- you haven't spent any time in the counseling business, as we have.

i was an adjunct professor to their counseling firm. if you listen to him closely, there is a moderate struggling to get out. >> really? >> yes. but usually conservatives have a presumption. running through all of their legislation, through all of their speeches, through their campaigns, through their offices. the presumption that the individual should be given the most power, and then if the individual can't handle it, let the local government do it. and if the local government can't do it, go to the state. and then at the last instant, if nobody else can handle a crisis or a problem, then it's under washington's domain. and liberals -- the other side, believe in a strong, activist, progressive government. there is nothing wrong with that. but we just basically stated the presumptions of fdr versus ronald reagan.

nothing wrong with either one of those sides. >> nope. >> i believe in one side, you believe in the other side. >> except for that in practice, as you pointed out -- not just conservatives -- those are conservative talking points about their -- about what they believe in practice and -- in many cases, they don't move up to that. what i think mika's point is, you know, the president explicitly, in his speech, tried to point to things that republicans have historically voted for, that he was proposing. and for boehner to say -- to answer that by saying, you know, you're basically a socialist. you believe in the government running the economy. we believe in the small businessman -- >> did he say that? >> no -- >> is your thought process being infected by the rage to the left? >> what did he say, joe? why don't you define it for us? >> retract the word socialist and simply say, boehner is saying you guys want the government to run the economy. >> right. >> and the president's proposals -- were proposals that, as i said, in the past -- taking, for example, cutting the

payroll tax. that is hardly a proposal that reflects a desire to see the government run the economy. >> right. >> and boehner does not seem to be trying to rise to meet the president. on policies that, again, republicans have historically supported. >> you would agree, though, that john boehner has over time been more actively trying to seek compromise than say of the presidential candidates on the republican side. >> certainly. and members of his own caucus. that is true. i think boehner has been -- know this dynamic, he is much more will to go make a deal than a lot of the people in the caucus. >> what do you think? is this just not going to work at this point? is there just not going to be a deal at this point? >> well, there is such mistrust. >> there has got to be some sort of a deal for the country. but as john heilmann just pointed out, if you track it, and when i said not really fooling around, that there is a moderate there within the speaker trying to -- struggling to get out, he is clearly, more

than any other republican, tried to bridge a gap between his party in the house of representatives and the president's position. and that every opportunity that he's tried to cross that bridge halfway, he's been pulled back by rechemicals transit members of his own caucus. he's got a larger problem there than the president has in trying to figure out what to do about the economy. >> peter alexander, this is about as bad as the hemmings when we were trying to get them back together. tell them, you know -- try to remind them of the love they once had. but you did. >> the hemmings checked in, and they're well. they're away with willie this weekend. it's a romantic trip. >> see, i thought that's what got -- them in trouble the first time. bringing a third party -- a vacation to aruba. >> that was our suggestion, and over time, we hope we can work on those things. but returning -- jim demint, i think it's what he said that a lot of people are focused on in many ways. which is as republicans we can't

go along with this president, because if we go along with what the president's jobs plan is right now, clearly we're responsible for whatever the consequences are. and if we don't go along with this jobs plan, at least we can say we weren't a part of this jobs plan. i think it's that sort of recaliforniacy transit to say we're supposed to wait? >> exactly. >> we need to talk to the demints. and let me say you just may need to calm down a little bit, okay? >> really. >> because we've got the demints on our calendar? >> thyes, next week. >> in a speech, he said there is room for compromise, but that most of the president's plan misses the mark. >> let's be honest with ourselves. the president's proposals are a poor substitute for the pro-growth policies that are needed to remove barriers to job creation in america. the policies that are needed to put america back to work. >> marriage counseling.

>> i didn't know that. the house speaker then unveiled his own proposals for reviving the economy, including no new taxes, reforming the tax code and ending excessive federal regulations. and in an interview with cnbc, speaker boehner declined to give a timetable on when the president's bill will be passed, noting the house has passed its own legislation. boehner saying, quote, the president could get behind some of these jobs bills. the white house responded to boehner's speech, saying, in part, the american jobs act includes the kinds of proposals that have been supported in a bipartisan way in the past. and the president's plan rebuilds the economy, the american way, based on balance, fairness and ensuring there is the same set of rules for everyone, from wall street to main street. >> so john higheilmanheilmann, chuck todd was asked, did the white house believe this jobs bill was going to pass, or did they believe it was just political theater? and chuck said -- he didn't take the debate on the political theater, but he did say they never intended for this bill to

be passed. but they had to put a marker out there. >> i think their political analysis was that there was nothing they could do that would be -- there was probably nothing that was going to pass at all, and certainly nothing that would be big enough that could actually move the needle on jobs in the short-term that ever had any chance of passing. and so they were basically laying out what was a -- i'm not actually demeaning this, i think this is a smart thing to do. they're saying, this is what we believe, and this is what we're going to run on for the next 15 months. it's not going to get passed, but let's be very clear about where the lines are -- back to boehner's comment about we're from venus, they're from mars, let's have a fight. >> and it makes sense to me, mike barnicle, if they're going to do this. they have waited too late. but if they're going to do this, do it this time, fail, when they come back next year, try to pass another jobs bill, fail. i would just stay at it, and stay at it. i mean, these -- he's got to make up for lost time. for three years, where people

think that he has not been focused sufficiently -- >> here's a gallup poll -- >> even if the republicans say no, just -- i would do it for the next year. just beat it -- beat it like a drum. >> think about what you and joe were just talking about. how sad is it, with the economic situation, the unemployment situation in this country, being what it is, 9.2%, probably 15, 16% real unemployment, that both sides are so cynical, they're saying, it will never pass, but we'll introduce it anyway. that's one thing. the other thing is, the president is clearly the strongest card he's got to play right now, i would think, is that he is the reasonable person in this whole debate. he's the reasonable guy. he keeps coming back to the table with this latest job proposal. and you're right. next year they'll have another one after this one goes down the dumper. >> yeah, just keep pushing. >> but just pause for a moment on boehner are on the highlights we had on what boehner's

proposals are for how to fix the economy. one is fundamental tax reform. i think everybody agrees it's important. but it's not going to han in the short term and not going to help the unemployment situation in the short term. number two, wants to see fewer regulations and he wants to see no new taxes, right? so you look at that. is that a plan that recognizes that we have a jobs emergency in the country today? >> no. >> that's -- that might be, from a republican point of view, that might be a reasonable way of thinking about how do we restructure the economy going forward for the next 10 or 15 years. it's not a program that does anything to address the unemployment crisis that we have in the country right now. >> like going to war. we just didn't pay for it. just didn't deal with it. >> i differ a bit on you that if we could have a permanent tax rate, if we could have a permanent tax reform structure, where small businesses knew, and large corporations alike knew that their taxes weren't going up in two years, that the

regulations weren't going to change, part of what the republicans are saying -- and this is -- this is the reality for business owners trying to figure out how do i plan -- because they don't just plan for the next three months or the next election. they plan for the next two years. if a business owner believes that there's going to be a temporary reduction of a tax rate, let's say, for 18 months, and then it's going to sunset, after everything gets better, well, everything is not going to get better, because they've got long-term plans. so when -- when you talk about tax reform and you talk about no new tax increases, it seems to me the only way that works is if it's permanent. i know a lot of business people that will say, okay, if you're going to raise my taxes, let me know, do it now. okay? >> but i want to know for an extended period of time. >> but i want to know for an extended period of time. the same thing with environmental regulations. okay, you want to change environmental regulations, okay, fine. give me time to prepare, and

make sure you're not going to change them again two years after that, after i retrofit everything in my factory. there has to be consistency. and that's something that, in my opinion, the white house doesn't understand. the six-month -- the six-month tax holidays or two-year tax holidays still don't stop people from being frozen. >> let me ask you, though. off of the body of evidence that we have over the last year, republican congress versus the president of the united states, how does a republican candidate for president run against the following line of argument from the president to the country? that the republicans would rather defeat me than help you? and i'll show you why. a, b, c, d. here's what they d. they said no, no, no. how do you run against that? >> i would say -- that's really easy. thank you. that's one of the easiest tests i've had. >> easier than the hemingway marriage, remember that one? >> all right. see if you pass the test.

>> no, we had the -- >> he's being tested. >> you talk about some drop-down drunks. >> yeah, they're back on friday. >> they are back on friday. whew! shake -- you take a bottle away for two seconds. no, that one is pretty easy, mike. say the president had a historic opportunity in 2009 when he got sworn in to create jobs, to do things that mike barnicle was saying back in march. instead, he wasted 18 months, one of the most ideological battles imaginable in health care reform that if you talk to economists today will tell you didn't take care of the great problems. in health care reform. and he worried about cap and trade when he should have worried about jobs. he worried about -- and you just go down the laundry list of things, when he should have worried about jobs. and so, yeah, now the republicans have come in, and they're trying to go a different direction. but, again, i think -- well, most americans still blame george bush for this. they're not going to give the

president a free ride. >> no, i know that. >> and, by the way, most americans, it seems to me, agree with -- if not the republican approach, the more conservative approach. they don't believe you can pass massive stimulus bills and get the economy going. they just don't believe that anymore. >> the idea for most americans that they may be waiting for 15 months before anything really happens i think is terrifying right now. >> oh, yeah. >> seriously. >> it's ridiculous. >> well, john, what would you do? i mean, what -- what's the plan? >> well, look -- >> to get people back to work? >> by the way, joe, i understand that the long-term is really important on tax reform. but you know what the tax code is like. there is nothing we can do between now and january. >> what can we do between now and january? >> the president has offered a promo -- i'm not saying this is going to fix our problems. but the president order this payroll tax cut, republicans have supported historically and a lot of economists say would move the needle. it's not going to fix the unemployment crisis, but some number of people back to work.

why republicans can't vote for something that they have voted for forever, tax cuts. they have voted for them back to the dawn of time. except for -- on pure -- except for pure politics, there is no reason not to vote for this. coming up next, what's the future of jobs in america and the world? the economist matthew bishop joins us for a look at how the global recession may have forever changed employment. and if it's friday, that means willie's week in review. which stories were unimportant enough to make the cut? but first, raphael more republican dawith a check on the forecast. >> good morning, everyone. if you have travel plans this morning, good news. no delays at major airports out there. lots of sunshine in boston. but a cool start to your day. take a look at these temperatures. low 50s in new york city and philadelphia. we have some 40s in pittsburgh. 45 in albany. a pre-fall chill out there across much of the northeast. but we've also got lots of sunshine. the satellite and radar looking very clear. later on today, it's going to be a gorgeous afternoon. temperatures between 65 and 70 across the northeast.

up to 64 in hartford, 67 in d.c. dry there, as well. close to 70 with sunshine in boston. going to be a quiet day across much of the midwest, as well. low 60s, lots of clouds in chicago. a couple of showers popping up in it kansas city. still hot in phoenix with temperatures in the mid 90s. 73 in los angeles with some sun and clouds. sure watching "morning joe" brood by starbucks. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no! but it's more money. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. what's in your wallet?

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♪ job creators in america are on strike. they're on strike, because they

look at the excessive regulations coming out of this administration, and they're scared to death. they don't know what the rules are going to be. 21 past the hour. joining us now, economists, u.s. business editor matthew bishop. matthew has a special report called "the great mismatch" in the magazine's current issue on the future of jobs. peggy noonan also back at the table. >> so what is the great mismatch? >> well, two problems in the world at the moment. one is that there are lots and lots of people out of work. we have record numbers of unemploy unemployed, both here in america, but globally, 205 million people are unemployed. at the same time, companies are saying we can't fill the jobs that we have got. there is a real shortage of people with skilled work. and i think this highlights a really important issue, which is that although part of the trouble we have today is due to an economic downturn after the financial crash in 2008, there's also a really long-term issue here, where america has become uncompetitive. many of the people that are coming into the labor market

just don't have the skills that allow america to compete in the world. >> what's driving that in america? >> what's driving it is i think the education system, simply lost touch with what the needs of business are. and, you know, it's producing lots of people who are skilled in things that no one wants to pay for anymore. >> you're talking k-12 or even the college? >> colleges in particular. >> really? >> yeah. jeff immelt who is head of ge and barack obama's jobs council chairman and saying a lot of the colleges could be producing people with skills in, say, hotels, catering, that area, where there is a big shortage of jobs at the moment. and the courses just aren't there. >> well, it's fascinating, because you look at a lot of studies that will say even though america has been in decline in some areas, our colleges are still the best in the world. >> the best american colleges are the best in the world. and they are -- you're getting people coming from all around the world. and this is one of the tragedies, as soon as thesel at thattented foreigners graduate, they get sent home rather than being encouraged to stay in america and create jobs in america with the skills they

have learned in america. >> has teaching in undergraduate college become too abstract and extraneous, by which i mean, is it all coming down to stuff like modes of alienation and post maoist china? >> i hope not. >> then what is the problem when somebody like jeff immelt says, look, what we need to fill the jobs that are available -- what should college be teaching? >> it really is saying, look at the world out there. there's a lot of growth in areas like social media, computing and so forth. if you have skills in software programming, engineering, basic mathematical skills -- >> you can get a job. >> there's people desperate to give you a job. likewise, if you had had a chemistry graduate, they are the best-paid graduates at the moment, because they're going into all of these manufacturing firms america apparently doesn't have. and teaching stuff that isn't so

relevant. >> let's stop before we get to college. let's talk about america's basic needs right now. everybody is talking about infrastructure. there's nothing wrong with being a plumber or an iron worker or joining a union and building roads in this country. what about putting these people to work? you know, forget the college stuff. forget social media jobs there. infrastructure jobs. >> right. i think one of the changes that's happened is that competitors of the 1930s when you were building the hoover dam and so forth, infrastructure companies just don't employ as many people as they did in the past, because they're using different technology. this is one of the things america has got to face up to. the world has a different technological system in place now that requires different sets of skills. so i was talking to the head of hr in mcdonald's who was saying, you know, basically, everyone needs to understand how to use modern technology. and mcdonald's -- you know, this is not just burger-flipping, not the simple task it used to be. it's a high-skilled job now. >> so you're saying if we were building hoover dam today, it would not create anywhere near

the jobs it did back in -- >> it would create the jobs it did in the 1930s. therein lies the bigger problem, we hear people complaining about the fact their jobs are being exported to china, or india. but we're also facing a productivity problem. the fact that the same problems that employed millions more people even 20 years ago don't employ a tenth of them today. >> well, that's why it's not a problem -- in a way, it's an opportunity. >> it's a problem if you were somebody who would have a job at a factory in 1993, but you don't in 2011. >> right. >> and so the question is, how do you fill jobs for those people? >> so if you look around the world, there are countries that are doing this much better than america, because they're actually spending money and saying, how do we take people mid career or people even in their 50s and give them the new skills they need to survive. >> who is doing that? >> germany is very good. britain has a scheme where they are now paying companies to take

unemployed people and find them jobs that -- and they're paying them by results. if they can get the person into a job where they stay in the job for over a year, then they get paid. they don't get paid anything before that person has stayed and worked for a year. it's an imaginative approach -- >> incentivizing. >> incentivizing the private sector. >> how much do we spend here in the united states on retraining workers just like you alluded to, as compared to how much germany or how much they spend in europe doing it? >> i think america is probably spending about a tenth, you know, on average of what some of the leading europeans are paying on really getting people back into the labor market, and giving the right skills to survive in the labor market. >> what's the word for -- i'm blocking on the word that is the old fashioned word that means, i have a business, i work, you can come in, i will teach you everything you need to know to work for me. and you will work for me free. i'll give you housing or whatever. but you're going to work for me free. but at the end of the day, at

the end of the year, you're going to know how to do this job and then you can be he employable. >> you mean an apprenticeship. >> great -- >> you talk to the head of dow chemical, one of america's great companies and he says he goes to germany and meets with angela merkel, head of germany, and says, what skills do you need for your plants in germany? and they have apprenticeship schemes in germany that are very, very attuned to what the needs of industry are. over here he says he doesn't have that conversation. there is no apprenticeship scheme that produces people to actually meet the needs of america. >> if somebody wanted to do it, would it be legally allowed? >> of course it's allowed. it's a matter of will here. this is what frustrates me with the political debate. there are things that could be done to deal with this problem of unemployment now, and they're fighting in washington over stuff that is upsetting everyone in the world. >> the head of dow chemical goes to germany and meets with angela merkel, and has this discussion with her. did you ask him whether he tried

to have this discussion here with the president of the united states? >> he does go to the white house and meet with obama. they don't have the ability to deliver, it seems at the moment, the kind of things that business needs. so this is one of the frustrations of the business world has. it's that washington is just shouting at each other. ideas like the president's job plan, which no one thinks is perfect. but would at least be a step in the right direction. no one believes it's going to go anywhere. and that's why business is so frustrated, that neither party seems to be able to deliver the stuff we all know needs to be done, whether education reform or investing in training or apprenticeship schemes or whatever. it gets bogged down in this fighting. >> it is bogged down. we're wasting valuable time for sure. and what about the quality of jobs? that's dwindling, as well, you have a growing number of people out of work, not just younger people, which is a crisis in itself, but people who have been in the work force for 10, 20, 30 years and are out and can't find something even half as good. >> again, there is a great mismatch there.

because for many people who are in work, work is getting better. if you go to silicon valley, people are being given fantastic job offers all of the time. they get massages, can bring their pets in, fantastic. but there are people who are -- you know, there are people who are out of work or who want to work and can't work systems they want the and more people doing part-time work. they are looking at a more and more difficult future. that's why i think we need to have a long-term plan, not just this sort of short-term bonfire in washington. we need to have people say how do we change the education system, how do we make it easier for entrepreneurs to create jobs and create new companies? and those policies are not being put in place at the moment. >> yeah. >> the economists, matthew bishop, thank you very much. >> always good to have you here. >> thank you for coming back. paying homage to americana. an ode to manufacturing and building in america. that's next.

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♪ with us now is renowned american artist and sculptor michael kalish. he hopes to make art more accessible with his latest work which pays homage to buildings and manufacturing in the united

states. and all that's great, but, you know, the real treasure about michael is anybody that knows his art, and you look at that art and you feel like you're actually peering directly into his soul. the best part of it is, that every statue or sculpture is stamped with a roll tide. >> it's supposed to promote better health, actually. but we'll talk about that, as well. >> university of alabama guy. >> right? >> roll tide, baby. >> that's why i'm here. that's why -- i mean, i'm setting off across the country to do this. i want to create these pieces and have people in these different environments help make them. and people -- that's the idea, people get a real sense of satisfaction when they make things. >> yeah. >> and so i'm here in new york to raise awareness for copd and that's one of the eight pieces, setting off across country. i think i'll be in alabama in a few months. >> that's really -- look at this! tell us about this. >> yeah, this was exciting.

>> the concept behind it. >> this was a really cool piece, a year in production, made up of 2,400 license plates to raise awareness for a big issue going on in the country and it's copd. it affects 24 million people, and it's reflected in this piece. 2,400 license plates. and these great, huge state bases, 30,000 pounds of steel and the whole thing comes together to form a contiguous map of the u.s. >> how many people were involved in making something like that? >> 25. >> it's interesting as an artist i'm now in manufacturing, bringing people aboard to do fabricating and architectural work and all artists in my studio, it's really nice. as someone who is in school and realized this was going to be a tough thing to forge ahead and be an artist and make it. >> incredibly tough. it's one of the most difficult, i think, areas to go into. you have to have it in your heart, for sure. >> you have to be passionate about it. >> yeah. >> more so now than ever. you better be passionate about what you're doing. >> absolutely. all right, peggy. >> what is copd? >> chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. seriously, i didn't know what this was a year-and-a-half ago.

and as a father of two little kids, you start hearing about something that affects that many people, 24 million people, that nobody knows about this? i don't know about this? so i wanted to put my -- put a face to it and create it in a way that people kind of engage with it. so we're moving across the country where they're going to dallas and tampa. >> wow. >> los angeles. and people walk through and touch and feel it. it's a cool back drop, pier 84, really cool spot where it is now. >> so you're going -- you say you have eight different exhibits? >> so i'm doing a few other seriously significant large pieces to raise awareness for different things. but more importantly, to have people help build these. and that's what i try and do, is create, you know, 20, 30 people that help build different pieces. pete carroll's organization, a better l.a., goes into these different environments in comp.ton and south central and has these gang members who he sets these reform gang members in to teach a new life. and i want to put a face to that campaign by creating a huge piece of cut-up old welded guns

and work with the lapd and do something really significant. have them come and be part of it. >> it's an apprenticeship. >> see? >> yeah, you really do get these communities engaged. >> and liberate -- it's like liberating art from the museum. trying to get this -- it's like popular art. >> yeah. i mean, there's like this huge disconnect between the art world and then when i set off across country and procure these materials, junk parts and tail gates, and there's these farmers or welders and they're really articulate about art. but yet they're not in museums, they're not in galleries, so why is there this huge disconnect? why can't i bring this work, public pieces, to these different environments and have them comment on it and be a part of it? i think the materials help out a lot, because they're everyday materials. >> it's fascinating about the materials. i'm listening to michael talk about what he grabs to sculpt, and then i look at what your mother's work is, when she goes to trees and who would imagine,

with chainsaws. >> she works on these massive pieces. i don't know -- but she has one right now, speaking of location as opposed to museums, it's on santa monica boulevard. massive arch. that's in europe is somewhere. i guess that's from the website. >> amazing. >> that's from a long time ago, actually. she has one right now, working on another show in germany. but like you, looking for -- working at one point with grounds for sculpture, which is outside -- it's incredible, the locations, now that you can imagine. and you have to. >> exactly. >> you have to. >> more so now. you've got to, like, break those walls down. so everybody can see it. and be a part of it. >> and be accessible to art. because i think it's a world that some people might not ever see if we don't put it right to -- especially our children. >> exactly. >> and drag them to museums all of the time. >> no. no. it has to be accessible. >> something i always get scared of, the notion of brzezinski with a chain saw. >> oh, my god. no, seriously, christmas eve at

my house, massive studio, chain saw, dead deer hanging from the winch. >> are you in there? >> my mom has the chain saw and i turn away. that's all i can say. >> so what's the reaction been? getting the communities out, and as john said, liberating art from showroom? >> and galleries? >> museums and galleries. >> people really get engaged, because i think the materials are familiar. an old tailgate from an old american truck, gm or license plates in this case. >> cool. >> and people are looking, what is this? why are there giant pin wheels made with license plates, why are they here? and i think that's a nice way to engage people, have them go deeper, walk around, touch and feel it. i found over 15 years of making art out of these materials that people just like -- they're familiar with things. and to take it out of context like i do is nice. >> i love it. >> michael kalish, thank you so much. >> thank you for having me. >> good luck out there.

>> thanks. coming up, treasury secretary tim geithner has a key meeting with european finance chiefs. how will they respond? simon hobbs is standing by at the new york stock exchange. we'll be right back. [ woman ] jogging stroller. you've been stuck in the garage while i took refuge from the pollen that made me sneeze. but with 24-hour zyrtec®, i get prescription strength relief from my worst allergy symptoms. so lily and i are back on the road again.

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while protecting your eyes from the sun. ask your eyecare professional which transitions lenses are right for you. female announcer: through the transitions healthy sight for life fund, we support the education efforts of prevent blindness america. learn about protecting your vision at preventblindness.org. ♪ as i did say in the past, implementation, implementation, implementation. and time is running short. and the greek authorities have to deliver, have to come a little bit more bipartisanly, if they can, to make sure that the country is on track when it comes to its program. >> and so, mika, that's why mike barnicle goes to pittsburgh every saturday morning. >> and the moran square diner. >> goes back there all of the time.

breakfast. >> i know it's close to his heart. >> yeah, right. not close to his heart. it is his heart. >> keep america moving. >> exactly. let's get a check on business before the bell with cnbc's simon hobbs, live at the new york stock exchange. >> happy friday, guys. >> happy friday. and, of course, you know, back in 1964, the beatles came to america. we're repaying the favor by sending geithner to europe. how is that going to work for them today? >> well, they didn't -- >> as he gets off the plane, screaming girls? >> yeah, it's poland. the -- basically, the market is up, so he's desperate for some movement the here. we are much calmer today, because did you see that yesterday the central banks, five came together, to greet as much dollars as they could into the european banks, that really helped the marked yet. what geithner wants to do is basically use the cash they've got in the bailout fund in a cleverer way and recapitalize the banks. he's probably not going to get

anywhere, because none of the 17 governments really has the ability to push it through their national parliament. so certainly not all of the 17 national parliaments. so the market might be disappointed. i have to say to you guys, it's going to be a really bad day for rimm today, research in motion. did you see the figures came out for blackberry. >> what happened to them? >> they're just not selling as many of the old blackberries as they expected, the margins are poorer, and they're selling half the numbers of the playbook tablet. so they have to discount the tablet into the holiday season. and there is a big question whether blackberry are stop making a tablet, same as sharp and hp has stopped making a tablet. so you have the huge advantage. the real challenge going into the holiday season is whom z amazon which is going to launch its own tablet. and can they dent what steve jobs has created. >> blackberry has blues because they tried to chase apple, butt putt all of these apps on a basic piece of equipment.

mika, your blackberry glitches up -- >> i don't know what this tablet is -- why don't they stop making the blackberry, okay? seriously. >> why don't they -- you know what, you know how they could increase sales? >> what? >> make it blue again and just have a phone. >> i want the blackberry from two years ago. >> i want the blackberry from ten years ago. i would settle for that. blackberries today glitch all of the time. they put the apps on the programs can't handle and they're impossible to use. >> you know there is a new operating system coming through at the beginning of next year and a whole new range. and actually, the new blackberries have been really well received. it's a crisis, because they keep -- as you say, they haven't come through with a design or operati operating design. they're not turning over fast enough, that's what apple is good at. >> well, and basically, the blackberry is like the pcs, where they put on a bunch of different gunk that the operating system can't keep up with. so you you sit there staring at your blackberry while it's thinking. it blinks out. >> that sounds a man that has

obviously got a work blackberry as we all have within nbc-u and the frustration is palpable. >> the amazing thing is this, simon. every generation gets worse. every new blackberry becomes more unreliable. so you can see why there's this crisis. >> need a new operating system. joe, have heart. in the new year, there will be a new operating system and it's probably going to be very good. >> let's hope they have a good operating system that does phone calls, e-mails and text messages. >> that would be nice. happy with that. >> nothing else. >> simon, thank you. >> next, willie's week in review. cash ♪ es you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no! but it's more money. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card.

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♪ my friend willie geist making a three-day weekend out of it. before we let him go, we made sure he did his homework. so here now, willie's week in review. >> there was some kind of sexual activity going on in the lavatories on the plane. at number three, a mile-high scare. >> he was in there a good ten minutes. came out, smiled at the other guy. he went in, and he was in there for quite a while. >> with the country on high alert for the tenth anniversary of 9/11, it seemed at first that some airline passengers were proving that terrorists had not won by joining the mile-high club. >> two people that i would have -- that i saw go up early on into the front lavatory -- >> f-16s were scam belled on sunday, september 11th, to

escort two separate commercial flights for what a law enforcement official called suspicious behavior in the bathrooms. that although disputed later, may have included, quote, making out. >> there was some kind of sexual activity going on. >> at number two, the gumby bandit turns himself in. >> gumby, you're sick! >> it finally was safe to go outside again in southern california this week. after an idiot who tried and failed to rob a 7-eleven on labor day, using a gumby costume as a disguise, surrendered himself and the costume to san diego police. >> ooh, the nerve of that guy! >> the 19-year-old fugitive made himself famous by storming into the store in full gumby gear, demanding all of the money in the register, and literally getting himself laughed right out of the joint with not even a nickle in his green, felt fingerless hands. >> you musn't be too hard on

gum gumby. remember, there was a full moon last night. >> and the number-one story of the week. >> if you love me, you've got to help me pass this bill! >> president obama was out on the road this week, pushing his jobs proposal. while the motley republican crew fighting to take his job was having a tea party-sponsored throwdown. >> i think governor perry would agree with me that if you are dealt four aces that, doesn't make you necessarily a good poker player. >> you were doing well until you got to talking poker. >> mitt romney went after rick perry on jobs and social security. while michele bachmann hit the front runner on capitalism and the hpv vaccine. >> if you're saying i can be bought for 5,000, i'm offended. >> i'm offended for all of the little girls and the parents that didn't have a choice. >> she told me that her little daughter took that -- took that vaccine, that injection, and she suffered from mental retardation thereafter. >> later in the week, though, perry got the only support that

really matters at the end of the day, scoring a dinner date in new york with king-maker and lover of all things gold plated donald j. trump. >> you're fired. you're fired. you're fired! >> back in the debate hall, the crowd cheered, oddly, for letting the uninsured die. >> congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die? >> no. owe. >> audience: yes! >> and did not cheer even a little bit for jon huntsman's 18-year-old nirvana reference. >> i don't know if that was written by kirk cobain or not. >> one topic shamefully absent from the debate, what to do about the breaches in our nation's defense against mile-high club membership. >> there was some kind of sexual activity going on. >> any week is a good week with a gumby and pokey reference. what did we learn if anything today? we'll tell you after this ♪ should be famous.

we're working on it. so you're seriously proposing we change our name to sun life valley. do we still get to go skiing? sooner or later, you'll know our name. sun life financial. [ technician ] are you busy? management just sent over these new technical manuals. they need you to translate them into portuguese. by tomorrow. [ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business.

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was what you looked forward to all week. - oh, wow! cool! cool! - whoa! so who'd have ever thought boys night out... wouldn't hold a candle to boys night in? having a baby changes everything. ♪♪ [ female announcer ] the road is not exactly a place of intelligence. highway maintenance is underfunded,

costing drivers $67 billion a year, and countless tires. which drivers never actually check because they're busy, checking email. this is why we engineered a car that makes 2,000 decisions every second. the new audi a6 is here. the road is now an intelligent place. ♪ hey, kids, it's time to talk about what we learned today. what did we learn, peter alexander? >> i learned that high school john heilmann was lit up by darryl strawberry with an ankle-high fastball back in high school. boom! still orbiting the earth today. >> mike? >> i learned no matter where i go or how far i travel, i cannot get rid of lewisburg. >> john heilmann? >> mike barnicle really loves

fitchburg, massachusetts. >> peggy? what did you learn? >> i learned my blackberry problem is not only my problem, as i thought. >> it's america's problem. >> i just want to teach you something. when you're taking pictures of me, the camera has to be pointed at me, not at you. >> not at yourself. >> lewis -- >> has he been taking anthony weiner style pictures again? >> i learned "cosmos" has a new column. this is very exciting. none other than mika brzezinski, getting what you want. >> okay. >> if you were so good at that, why are you sitting next to me? >> we're done now. >> all right. thank you, mika. if it's way too early, what time is it? >> time now for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. >> back on, off, rick perry gets used to taking heat as the front runner. he's now firing back at his chief rival, mitt romney, on so many fronts. we're going to talk to governor bobby jindal about why