martin bashibashir, thank you. our show starts right now. well, the big story today, crashing parties. it is friday, it is a delight to be seeing you. thank you for giving me a portion of your day. i am dylan ratigan. it is a struggle between trust and likability in washington, or maybe against both, according to the latest polls. all-time lows for congress, doesn't matter what you are, democrat, republican, call yourself what you want. america doesn't like you. 15% approve. nobody can explain who that 15% is. paired against the president in his own approval rating, a little better, 39%. hardly a reason to write to grandma, or mom, or your wife, or anybody else. the numbers stink. and despite the frustration, however, and this, i think, is the most curious aspect, understanding polls are screwy and you know how the question was asked and all that, despite all this, only 34% of those polled, whoever they are and

whatever the poll was, but you get my point, want a third party. want an alternative to these two parties who continue to show us lousy solutions too often to significant problems, both of whom are dependent on campaign financing that prevents them ever from giving us the true debate we deserve, from everything from energy to health care to banking, and yet voters are even less likely to vote for an independent candidate than they are a democrat or a republican. so why are americans so dedicated to a two-party system they revile and reject alternatives? with us today, two men who ran both of the political parties at one time or another. former democratic party leader, ed rendell, also an msnbc news political analyst and former governor. and former republican party leader, michael steele, also an msnbc analyst and both, quite candidly, are gentleman whose company i enjoy and i'm happy to have both of you guys here. i'll begin with you, michael. is it a -- is this a human

psychological problem? it feels like we need a shrink. >> well, it is. it's the love/hate thing. and it's one of those things where i push you away and i pull you back, i push you away and i pull you back. and i think the unknown is what keeps more people anchored to both parties than anything else. because they don't know what a third party looks like, what it will feel like. >> could be even crazy perp. >> could be even crazier than the two we've got. so better the devil you know than the devil you're wishing for. and i think that's what the american people are. however, having said that, i still believe fundamentally that beyond the 2012 election, the nation is going to begin to get its act together with respect to the political process, and you will see emerge some strand or form of third partyism. i don't know exactly -- >> there could be 100 parties that have to form coalitions. >> exactly. and i think people are just going to break into -- and you saw that. that's how the tea party really started. it wasn't this massive coalition of -- >> of a specific group under one umbrella, other than just tea party.

it was a title. it was still rooted in the states, very independent, that came together around certain issues. so it's going to be an interesting dynamic. >> do you agree with that analysis, ed? >> i certainly agree with the devil you know. that's the reason people stay anchored with the two-party system. but i don't think there'll be a viable third party movement. i mean, you look in our recent history, ross perot with unlimited funds didn't carry one state. i think his highest percentage in any one state was like 28 or 29%. there's simply no percentage in doing it. and i think it's too hard and too difficult to do. i think it's incumbent upon us rather than to wait for a third party to come riding to the rescue, to try to reform the parties that exist. and in some senses, dylan, the tea party movement was, by those folks who have that point of view, an effort to reform the republican party. i know they're always saying they don't belong to one political party, but you heard the tea partyites on monday say that they're going to decide who the republican nominee is.

>> but there's one thing to reform -- let the ideology or the mechanics of a party. i don't like this particular thing, i think we should do this on taxes or i don't like this on social policy or whatever it is. it's another thing to go to what you and i have talked about ed, publicly on the show, you and i have talked about, michael, privately, is the things that never get talked about. the debate that never happens on drug -- pharmaceutical deals with health care, or efficiency standards in auto manufacturing, or capital requirements in the banking system, because both parties are too dependent on financing from those industries to ever entertain the debate. and it's as if you have two parents in the democrat and republican party who are, in effect, explicitly or implicitly conspiring to never discuss certain things in front of the children, when those are the exact things that must be discussed. >> and to the governor's point, i really think that -- i have

this visual in my head. >> that's good, right? >> you got it right. but i think to the governor's point, you know, both parties don't want to see this expansion into something else. because they do have a vested interest in the status quo, as much as you know right now folks are railing against republicans for this, that, or the other thing, you can also flip that scrip and rail the other way. and i think this is the time, and it began in 2009, where we as a nation can begin to talk about other alternatives and other ways. and you know, we may or may not have a formal third party movement or third party. but i think there people see a third way that does have an impact on the political process. >> isn't that third way eliminating that suicide vest of money that allows people to basically pick off anybody who steps out of line, unless everybody does it together? >> well, dylan, there's no question, you're right. but how does the third party help accomplish that? >> i don't know. >> how does the third party get the wherewithal to be heard?

remember, in this day and age, you've got to be heard. it's stunning, what's happened to politics in the 34 years that i've been involved in it. when i started out a congressional race, democrat, republican, maybe you spent $250,000. now, of course, tv rates have changed over the course of 33 years. but now, michael, what's a contestant -- congressional race cost, $3 million, $4 million? >> easy. >> for the low-end congressional district. >> that's a small district, yeah. >> so $3 million to $4 million at the low end, and you can't compete. you can't compete without being able to raise that money. so what would happen if we had a third party, would the third party, in an effort to be heard, do the same things? i don't want know. >> let's even back it up, though, because the third party in this conversation is a little more than one example of a theoretical tool that could maybe be used to reform the political parties. your point is, maybe that's not the right tool. ed's point is, i don't know whether that tool actually works. we all know that the process, the mechanism of the debate and

the mechanism of the relationship and conflict of interest, whether it's reinvolving door stuff, whether it's financing stuff, must be addressed. if the third party is not the right tool, what is the right tool? >> well, i think the right tool is what we've begun to see in the last couple of years. and that is the people galvanizing around a set of ideas that they, themselves want to promote. that they themselves want to push. you know, you can talk about the tea party -- >> you're saying issues-based coalitions? >> issues-based coalitions, grassroots orientation of the issues, so that it's coming from the bottom up. you can talk all day about the tea party, but you cannot ignore what happened in wisconsin either. where you had the left galvanizing around the idea of collective bargaining, a principle they firmly believed in and felt was under attack, just as conservatives thought they were being attacked on the economics side. so that type of grassroots activism is exciting. as national chairman, to see this burgeoning tea party

movement or this movement of people was very exciting, particularly out in the country. because you heard people actually engaging principally, not just the rhetorical throwing barbs at one another. >> is there way to have issues-based coalitions around energy, around health care, around education, around bank reform that work? >> well, that's a tough question, dylan, because the tea party coalition revolved around a very simple, direct message. we want less government spending. when you get into energy and the things you just talked about, they're more sophisticated, nuanced forms of issues, and whether you can do remains to be seen. but on the issue of cleaning up government, i think we're going to see a remarkable -- hopefully we're going to see a remarkably impactful race in 2012. we've got scott brown, who's a good guy, and in many ways has been a good senator, but who has taken just a whole boat load of money from wall street. and let's assume elizabeth warren wins the democratic primary. here's elizabeth warren, who basically wrote the provisions

that were to clean up wall street and hold their feet to the fire. so what happened in 2008 can never happen again. and she's running for senate and she's saying, just your message. there's too much money, there's too much special interests, it's got to change. let's see how that election plays out. but you know what's going to determine that election, ironically -- >> money! >> is how much money one can raise. >> well, let's have a talk with jimmy williams. i'm sorry, go ahead. >> there's a great equalizer, and it's called the internet. i predict elizabeth warren will raise a boatload of money on the internet, from ordinary people, $25, $50 at a time. and that's going to be an achievement, because scott brown is not a bad guy. he's not a bogeyman that you can run against. >> but just because you are winning an arms race does not mean that being in an arms race is good for society. >> no. but if you can raise money, a lot of money, like barack obama did with $50 contributions and $100 contributions, that's what democracy's all about. >> it is -- but i'll tell you

what -- the reason i have issue with that obama characterization, and i recognize that he had by far the largest participation of small donors than anybody who's ever done that, in history, uncontested. but also uncontested, he got more than big donors than anybody in history, led by goldman sachs. so there's a nice kind of spin on obama, where you're like, oh, he's a little guy. >> you can be sure that elizabeth warren won't be getting any money from goldman sachs. >> he ran on that whole point. and turned his head around on mccain/feingold, didn't take the public funding because he knew he had close to $500 million out there waiting for him. >> which most of that money didn't come from -- while most of the donors were mainly small, most of the money was from a few donors. >> bundling. >> a lot of money came on the internet. a boatload of money. >> all right. let's just get the money out so we can talk about health care or something. >> sure, but how do you get the money out? >> i told you. >> you've got to elect people who are willing to say, let's go

back to what we used to have and let's do something about citizens united. >> yeah. >> the biggest abomination we've ever had in this country. >> yeah, no, that's it. i'm still working the $100 million with jimmy williams. we're going to launch the money in politics series next week. i do believe that we can do this. however -- >> you've got my check. >> listen, i don't want any money! it's good to see both of you. michael, thanks for the visit. ed, have a great weekend. thank you very much. coming up here, who's really in charge?! the new book raising questions about our own president's relationship with none other than his own treasury secretary as we watch a second potential multi-trillion dollar bailout brew in western europe tied directly back to our own central bank. plus, is the nfl becoming the no-fun league. tsa-like pat-downs could soon be coming to a stadium near you. and later, from "charlie's angels" to pan am tourists and

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a new book about the obama administration's inner workings has critics and us asking who is in charge when it comes to america's money? the president or his advisers? pulitzer prize winning author, former "wall street journal" report ron suskin penned the book everyone is talking about, "confidence men" comes out next

week. and according to the ap, which got its hand on an early copy, geithner ignored an '09 order by the president to consider dissolving citigroup while continuing so-called stress tests on the banks. geithner's pals a t the treasury department firing back that that accusation was wrong and that this was a restructuring plan that was there if it was needed, but due to all the money shenanigans, who needs anything like restructuring, and that suskin has it all wrong. today in brief, our friday megapanel is in effect to talk about what the reports reveal about the administration. i will not subject you guys to a deep analysis of the dysfunction in our banking system, nor will i do that to our audience's afternoon, as much as i wish that i could, i will not. >> been there, done that. >> we're still doing it, but that's for another day. this seems like classic circumstancircular firing squad, it wasn't me. it seems like we're setting up

for whoever the role was to make sure when there's no jobs, it's not geithner's fault, it's not larry's fault, it's not the president's fault and everybody's doing this. >> but it seems the classic narrative of the obama administration that the guy's not tough enough. and i don't know if it's true or not, but this is the story that you hear in the street all over the place. the guy's not tough, he doesn't have enough cojones, he's not running his ship. he wants everybody to be happy, which is what he wanted all the way back from harvard. >> he wants to be liked? >> he wants to be liked, he wants everybody to feel like they're getting their way, and consensus is harder. we need a leader and the people feel like he's not doing that. >> guys? >> i want to cut the president a little bit of slack. let's keep in mind what he walked into. >> somebody call the white house, actually. because this show has not cut this president slack for years. >> i'm feeling very generous today. >> let's get on the phone to white house communications. krystal ball is cutting the president slack. >> i am eternal optimist. keep in mind, this book reports on things that happened during the beginning of the

administration. he just got into office. financial collapse, economy in free fall. >> we're still in a financial collapse. >> yeah, absolutely. >> the financial crisis is not over. anyway, continue. >> and i don't think any of us are surprised that wall street was having an undue influence and these are guys who are all very sympathetic to wall street. the question is, have those dynamics changed? and the other thing that's very interesting -- >> i would argue that the swap lines opened up at the central bank in america yesterday morning in order to facilitate the purchase of every defunct bond in europe suggested it has not. >> and the other interesting element of this book is they talk about the women who were in the room being cut out of the decision making process. and there's a lot of research that shows that one of the most important elements in effective decision making is diversity. and that when you have a balance of male and female perspectives, you end up with better decisions. so that could be a contributing factor in some of the poor decision making. >> that's a great point.

go ahead, gary. >> do you have five bucks? >> yes. >> i ask -- i ask because i have a $5 word that i would like to use. >> well, i just bought it. >> thank you. and that is anthropomorphism. >> i feel like i got that word cheap. >> i feel like what we see over and over is this anthropomorphism -- >> i don't know what that is. >> -- of complex policy disputes. we take complex policy debates, and turn it into obama is weak, obama is indecisive. it's all about his personality. i don't think he's weak. i don't think taking out bin laden is weak. i think there's plenty of examples where he's shown fortitude. >> got it. i believe he has fortitude about facilitating the ongoing multitrillion dollar extraction of this country by supporting a banking system that has no capital requirements, a tax code that is bought -- in other words, you would argue that he's doing what he wants. >> i would argue -- i might put some of the wording differently

than you. but to the core point -- >> you can't put the facts differently, which is no capital requirements in our banking system, too big to fail banks, and rigged trade, and a veritable tax code that is different for every constituent or interested party. >> and in the suskin book, who's responsible for the what the treasury secretary does? and ultimately, i think it's the president. not saying, oh, i missed that meeting and somehow i'm too weak to deal with my own staff. i don't buy it. >> you're both right in terms of military policy, he's been very strong and decisive. and in terms of fiscal policy, he's been all over the place and that's what we've needed him to be strong on. >> and we were hoping he was the guy that was going to ends the wars, if i remember correctly. >> absolute. >> kind of screws with the man's brain. let's talk about something else that will play with your head a little bit. the nfl, if i have this right, will be doing pat-downs at every stadium, looking to see whether krystal ball is entering giants

stadium with taser. is that what we're dealing with right now? >> i think she's a skins fan. >> sorry. >> but they might play the giants. >> they could be playing the giants. >> sure. >> she's a new yorker now. >> we did beat the giants last weekend. >> but what's going on here? in other words, somebody brought a taser in, somebody tasered somebody at a game, and now we're going all homeland security on them. >> i don't like this at all. it's a loss of civil rights, a loss of freedom, and loss of time entering an nfl stadium, and i don't like the continued perception of americans as guilty until proven innocent in entering an nfl stadium. and the planes, i -- okay, we need the transportation system to work and we've had examples of the terrorists trying to attack via planes. do we have examples of a problem in an nfl stadium? >> hold on. what are you going to say the day after -- the day after a stadium gets hit? that's the problem. we get up here in the media and do this thing, but the whole point about security planning is

you have to be proactive. so if it's a security rationale, right, i'm not the expert, but if the experts -- >> hold on -- >> -- get in here? >> go ahead, krystal. if you're free. >> here's my point. this seems to me like a perfect example of the illusion of security. if you're actually concerned about people's safety in games, i am going to bet, having not looked at the statistics, that the much larger danger is people who have been drinking too much and getting in fistfights. more security officials inside the game, preventing those sorts of things to be safer. >> fans inebriated and continuing to buy beer into the third and fourth quarter, that's a much bigger problem -- >> that's your security issue? >> yeah. >> what if they cut the taps at halftime? >> people would be mad, but if you want the security issue -- >> if your number one concern is security -- >> all right. >> people would be mad. >> people, about that, dylan, they'd be pretty mad. >> insightful analysis, as

always. >> thank you, krystal ball! >> all right, one more reminder, next thursday, a pulitzer prize winning author ron suskind will be here to talk about his new book "confidence men" and the controversy it is stirring up as we watch poverty, unemployment, and the ongoing bank extraction persist in this country. next, however, why women may be the biggest winner when it comes to solving problems in a job war. or at least overseas, our specialist with surprising lessons we may be able to learn from the third world when it comes to solving problems. cou. so i take one a day men's 50+ advantage. it's the only complete multivitamin with ginkgo to support memory and concentration. plus vitamin d to help maintain healthy blood pressure. [ bat cracks ] that's a hit. one a day men's.

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we are back this week with the largest private employer in the world made a new commitment to women in the workplace. walmart announcing plans designed to, quote, empower women across their supply chain. they will include doubling the number of products they purchase from women-owned suppliers.

they also say they will offer increased training and career opportunities to 60,000 female factory workers around the globe. which brings us to our next guest, who says in order for any company to succeed, or country, for that matter, as illustrated in many emerging markets, they will have to rely on a highly educated workforce of women to get the job done. joining us now, sylvia hewlett, founder and president of the center for work life policy and co-author of "winning the war for talent in emerging markets: why women are the solution," and sylvia, it is a pleasure to welcome you. why are women the solution? >> well, let's just start with a couple of facts, dylan. >> please. >> take leadership. in brazil right now, 14% of ceos are female. in india, the figure is 11%. well, you know, back here in the u.s., it's just 3%. women really are surging in terms of not just getting into the workforce, but, you know, rising to the top. and what i do in this book is

explore why. and what are the conditions? what makes that happen? >> what's the ecosystem that is releasing women's potential to its highest possibilities? >> right, right. well, first off, they're hugely credentialed. like here, there are about 60% of college grads these days. increasingly, they're more than half of the business school grads. that's true in the u.s. but one of the different things about these emerging markets is that women hang on to their ambition and aspiration through their lives. >> you're saying -- but you're saying a woman in brazil or india is more likely to hang on to her ambition over her life span than an american woman is? >> absolutely. we've just been measuring it. and for instance, in china and in india, ambition for women, those who see themselves as very ambitious and want that top job, about 85%. here it's more like 40%. so you know, why is that? a couple of the factors. first off, you know, you're

surrounded by 9% growth rates and not a flatlined economies. >> you're saying in the emerging world, there's a lot more opportunity because of all the growth? >> right, right. but it's more than that. take the one child policy in china. that's been kind of magical for women. not only, you know, do you have one or no children, and therefore not a whole lot of burden coming out of that, but for women 32 and younger, they were the only -- they had no brothers. so they got the full flood of their father's ambition. so, guess what, you know, these women are on fire. they're reaching for the sky, and they're confident they can get there. >> sylvia, if you don't mind, obviously, we're not going to institute a one-child policy here, but i am interested in, from a policy perspective, what could we do in the united states to help encourage women to be in those top decision making positions at companies? and also, to be more included in

the political process. we're still in a place where only 17% of the united states congress is women, which puts us, i think, at 89th in the world. >> and only 39 women have ever served in the u.s. senate. ever. >> right, right. whereas 23% of parliamentarians in china are female, 30% in brazil, et cetera, et cetera. well, i think, first off, there is a much bigger acceptance, weirdly, of women in leadership. the president of brazil right now is a woman, right? india's had two women leaders. >> even chinese boardrooms seem to have more women in them than the american boards of directors, quite honestly. >> that is true. that is actually true. so that is, you know, a very fascinating cultural reality. secondly, these countries have leapfrogged. the number of india headquartered companies, for instance, that have fabulous approaches to flexibility. more than here.

>> but referencing culture? do you think, torre, our cultural, the american cultural, likes to celebrate the concept of women's rights and equality, but actually is not very comfortable in relating to women as equals in a power setting. in fact, maybe less comfortable than china, than brazil, than india, et cetera, et cetera? >> well, i know of one problem -- >> are we just talking the talking? >> one problem for the american woman, no matter how much ambition and education she has, is the family problem. >> they don't have that in china? >> no, but she's talking about the one-child solution. if you want to have a full family, it becomes more difficult to balance work and family, and harder for the job to give you that opportunity to do that. >> right. well, you know, i'm not really thinking of that as a simple, you know, cookie cutter solution in america. i'm a woman that actually has four kids, you know, so i would be a very bad poster child for that. but you know, what we see in these countries is extended

family, but also lots of shoulders to lean on in terms of the child issue. in india, 58% of professional women live with either their parents or their in-laws. do you know what the figure her is? it's a mere 3%. you know, in other words, we are isolated in our nuclear families. >> so you're saying the community environment that exists socially in brazil, india, china, et cetera, makes it much more plausible, both for parents and children to have more opportunity? >> you're right. but what we're seeing also is a kind of time bomb is that they are looking forward, these women, into the future and understanding that they're going to get clobbered by elder care. you know, a little like, you know, europe is running into that now. >> well, america too. >> because it's much easier to subcontract your child than your mother-in-law in china. and we're finding that daughterly guilt is a whole lot more heavy than maternal guilt

in some of these societies. >> interesting. >> no kidding. >> which makes us understand that the issues are different. you know, sometimes we're lulled into the notion that they're just like us, but kind of behind the curve. not true. you know, oftentimes they're ahead of the curve -- >> who are they? >> these educated women in the -- >> high-performing women, you're saying. >> yes. >> got it. >> and of course, it's a lot of them. this is not some -- >> i'm sorry, ari. >> no, that's ari. >> i wish i looked like him. love that hair. you set out to write a book that looked at these issues from a pro-equality, pro-progress perspective. but did anything surprise you, did you find any problems that were worse than you expected? >> absolutely. one of the unexpected glitches or severe problems is safety. in brazil, you know, female executives have real fears

about, you know, getting held up at the atm or, you know, kind of grabbed in their cars. and companies, again, have to step up to the plate. because it's one of the biggest reasons why a very high-performing woman might quit in both india and brazil. now, that's not a problem we need, you know, to worry about, even in new york. where obviously we've had a lot of security concerns this week. the other issue is mobility. because these countries are so huge, that if, for instance, you have to go work in hydrobear and your base is mumbai, it's awfully difficult to take your extended family with you. so women lose their networks -- >> so the very network that makes your success possible must be abandoned at the higher echelon or risks being abandoned as you actually achieve the success that that got you. >> right. so emphasis, some of the big companies are actually figuring out how to create extended

family packages. it's fascinating, the cutting edge private sector creative support that's going on. and in some ways, i think, you know, american companies have a lot to learn there. >> a wonderful conversation, sylvia, thank you for coming over to talk to us. i enjoy this. sylvia hewlett, author of "winning the war for talent in emerging markets," i have it spelled amerging with an "a," and i'm like, is that emerging or america. congratulations on the book. toure stays for the rant. i wish you had his hair too. but toure's more than his hair. >> that's what i've been saying. i just wish people on twitter agreed with me. end of friday. boom. >> all right. ahead, tatween is real. nasa's cool new discovery

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well, not so long ago, this week, in fact, meaning this week, in fact, in a galaxy not so far away, in fact, nasa announced the discovery of a planet right out of a "star wars" movie, keplar 16-b, a planet nearly the size of sat turn, only 200 light years away from earth, but what makes it really cool is the two sons in the middle that the planet orbits. this is the first ever of its kind we have discovered, but it may sound familiar to you, since, well, luke skywalker's home planet also orbited two sons. while it was covered in sand and jawas in the movie, keplar is made up of half rock and half gas. still, as an homage to the desert planet from the movie, scientists have already started calling it, what else, tataween,

and today also happens to be the release of the complete "star wars" saga on blu-ray. what else might have been right in that movie? light sabers, death stars? maybe an ewok tour? who knows. road work ahead here, however, i do know that. we all need to know it and do it. next, we are daring to defy the ratings god on a friday afternoon to utter one of america's most important and wonky words. find out what it is when we return. [ venus ] what are they doing to stufy?

they're making him triple double. why? this! new triple double oreo. ♪ yo stufy, come here! [ shoes squeaking ] looked better on paper. [ strike! ]

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all right, a year ago a conversation on infrastructure was considered a channel changer, but now it's become the new political buzz word. and when you watch scenes like the ones i'm about to show you, it's not hard to see why. >> in may 2009, this is what it looked like then. today, the road is still closed and the erosion along cuyahoga creek as gotten worse. >> if indiana has to build a new bridge, where will the money come from? >> obviously, you can see from sky 11 the emergency workers are doing what they can after this collapse directly into the mississippi. >> clearly, we have significant, multi-trillion dollar issues when it comes to our

infrastructure, matters of dire national importance, national security, national pride, and most importantly, national safety. meanwhile, we have millions of out of work americans and piles of soldiers we would all love to bring home from war. wouldn't it be nice to match the unemployed and returning soldiers to american infrastructure to solve a problem? isn't that what a job really is at the end of the day? and joining us now is barry lapatner, new york-based real estate lawyer, and a leader in the infrastructure construction business. most importantly, for our purposes today, he has authored a book, it's entitled "too big to fall: america's failing infrastructure and the way forward," and you basically argue, if you thought too big to fail was a risk, wait until you read "too big to fall." before we get -- what's the order of magnitude of the problem? >> the order of the magnitude is that while we build fabulously in this country, we have no construct, no concept or understanding about how to maintain what we built.

we have a federal interstate highway system that was built from the' 50s onward, that has gotten little or no money for maintenance. we have bridges that have long passed their intended life span, that are ready to fall down, and engineers know about it. but have hidden the truth from the public about how dangerous -- >> why? why hide the truth? >> well, it basically comes down for politicians applying transportation funds for new projects, which gives them wonderful photo ops, but they don't like to apply money to the underside of a bridge, even though they know it's in dire shape. >> inform me, though, how many bridges are we talking about? on the scale of what actually exists in american infrastructure, what percentage of them, what number of them are at risk? >> we all hear the statistics, that there are 150,000 bridges in this nation, out of 600,000 total that are either functionally obsolete or

structurally deficient, and that goes over everybody's head. what we need to understand that if a bridge is rated poor in this country, meaning they have not gotten attention for many, many years, we have over almost 8,000 bridges, 160 on average in every state that are what's called fracture critical. which means just like the i-35w in minneapolis, which collapsed in august 2007, if one piece breaks, the entire bridge goes straight down. >> like a keystone base, pull one string and the whole thing goes like a stack of codominos. >> yes. >> there are a few ideas that you talk about in this book that you believe need to be understood and resolved in order to do this. you say, keep the gas tax and use the revenues wisely. you also say, end waste and abuse in the construction industry. those are obviously the political punching points that you see, which is, i'm not giving the government a bunch of money for a bunch of highway

stuff, because they're just going to do a bunch of useless work that's politically favorable. >> this political issue that we are hearing about in the papers out of washington today is a one-off. it has never in the history of congress been an issue about extending the gas tax, which americans must understand is ten times less than what europeans paid for a gas tax. >> and we are currently paying, really, $13, $14 a gallon when you factor in the military and environmental. we're already getting a huge subsidy in gasoline, as it is, by the fact that our military pace for the energy security for free. >> and we're ignoring the fact that the gas tax is charged per gallon. and even the charges that we collect in this country every day are only 90% of what we need for the highway trust fund to maintain our roads for the trust fund purposes. what we have to understand is that we need to think of new ways to charge a gas tax, for

instance, on how much usage our commercial and our private vehicles use. that would be a fairer tax, that would probably be more acceptable for politicians to think about. >> the other issue is waste and abuse in the construction industry, which is notorious 50 ways for being a venue to charge the government a lot of money, pocket a lot of it for a few friends and neighbors that are involved, and do some low-value or no-value work. >> the construction industry is the most inefficient industry in the united states today of all industries. 49% of all labor costs on the project are not going into the project due to inefficiencies, such as late deliveries, workers not showing up, and the like. we can't countenance that anymore. in a capital constrained society, where we need every dollar to go and be applied efficiently, the construction industry has to be reformed. >> who would do that?

who would do any of this? >> well, we need to understand how we build today. we need to understand that the construction industry is the lowest user of advanced technology. there is hardly any money spent by construction industries today on robotics, on just in time delivery. those kinds of things, which are prevalent throughout the entire business community, are entirely missing from construction. >> i just want to go through it. your infrastructure resolution, basically, as i understand it, is make sure you keep that gas tax, but use revenues wisely. maybe apply it proportionally to super users, if you will, 18-wheelers and others that use -- consume more of our highway, steo to speak, in a literal sense? >> that's correct. >> and you've got end waste abuse in the construction industry, and apply modern technology. >> modern technology. and also we have to understand in this country just how perilous our infrastructure is today. bridges are falling down and will continue to fall down, and

it's not my estimate, it's the estimate and the professional opinion of engineers who design those bridges. >> barry, you understand we're having this conversation in the middle of an island that you can really only get to by crossing a bridge. >> that's correct. >> are you trying to scare me? >> no. in new york city, we have the safest bridges of anywhere in the country, because new york city, this administration and the prior administration has invested $5 billion to make new york city -- >> that's new york city taxpayers? >> just new york city. outside of new york city, from the tappan zee bridge northward, we have a very, very dangerous situation. >> i've got another solution for you. jet packs. think about it. think about it. it's a pleasure. thank you for joining me. barry lapatner. the book is "too big to fall," check it out. thank you so much for devoting your resources to helping the rest of us understand this

better. i could not more emphatically agree with how important an issue this is for all the reasons that are obvious. >> my pleasure, dylan. coming up on "hardball," what texas' latest unemployment numbers mean for rick perry. but first, everything old is new again. "charlie's angels," just one of the classics making a comeback this fall. what does our friend, toure, have to say about it quality according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no! but it's more money. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. what's in your wallet? woah! [ giggles ] as a managso i takeam one a day men's 50+ advantage. counts on me to stay focused. it's the only complete multivitamin with ginkgo to support memory and concentration. plus vitamin d to help maintain healthy blood pressure.

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now here with his daily rant on throwback tv, our friend, toure, his author of the book "who is afraid of post blackness," a subject we'll discuss on monday at barnes & noble.

but that's not why we're right now, toure, it's because what's old is now again. >> last night when i was half asleep with the tv still on, in my semiconscious state, i heard an ad for a new show called "the playboy club," and then there was an ad for a new show called "pan am," and then a new showed "charlie's angels." then i woke up with a start, i knew it was 2:00 a.m., but what decade? pop culture is dominated by nostalgia right now. television is reaching back to the '60s and '70s, not so much because of the success of the best drama on tv, madmen, but because retro is comfort food. it's not the shock of the new, it's the comfort of something you already know, and it's easier to sell. marketers will tell you it's easier to revive a dormant brand than to start a new one, and tv's taking advantage of that. retro mania reigns in pop music too, of course. lady gaga recalls not just '80s star, madonna, but also '70s stars like grace jones, elton

john, and freddie mercury. adele's music is great and a dead ringer for '60s soul. we could go on and on pointing out examples. in large parts, this retromania is about the overwhelming shadow the '60s still casts over american culture. our romance with that wild sexual free wheeling revolutionary decade is not over. the '60s is like the cool kid who graduated from high school years ago, but refuses to stop hanging out in the quad. but our retromania is also a complaint about the modern day, the artists are saying the now is too impure or lackluster or lame for them, so they're reaching back to another area. and it gets us away from our fears and frustrations from the now. "pan am" reminds us that there was a time where air travel was glamorous and exciting and not filled with fear and stress and intimate pat-downs. "the playboy club" recalls a time when sex was more free and not tied to death and it has. adele recalls a time where

talent and vocal quality reigned, not autotune and gimmicks. gaga reminds us that artists used to be unabashed performers and theatrical entertainers. all that retromania takes us back to a time where america was great and strong and simpler, when china wasn't about to become our boss. nostalgia, of course, is always 20/20, and these lookbacks rarely include the full complexity and true confusion of their time, except for "mad men," which is a peerless show, because the workplace gender inequalities of the era are a consistent subtheme. as simmon reynolds writes, is nostalgia stopping our culture's ability to surge forward, or are we nostalgic because our culture as already stopped moving forward? >> i think i can answer some of your questions. i have that degree of confidence right now. >> bring it. >> so i believe that the economic incentives of the production houses to monetize

these brands rules the day. they are clearly -- well executed, easily marketable and all the rest, poorly executed, they'll still fail. doesn't matter. but the cost of taking the risk is much lower. the problem is, it sucks up all the oxygen, which then prevents us from being forced to take the risk, forced to take the forward move to get -- so if there's never the pressure to take the risk, you'll never get the renaissance that is really at our fingertips. >> you leave out, there are artistic choices, especially in music being made by artists. they're not telling adele, do a '60s soul thing. >> 100%, it is marketable, and music is a little bit different, because i almost believe music is without time. it's a wave that goes through the ages. a pleasure to see you. i'll be with toure monday night at barnes & noble. but right now we're going to the weekend and "hardball's" picking up right now with chris matthews. all hat, no cattle. let's play "hardball."