we will show you that. i want to warn you, the footage is disturbing. kolo tv is reporting at least 12 people have been killed. a medical official telling the associated press that more than 75 people on scene are injured. 25 of those injuries are concernconcern considered critical injuries. this happened 4:30 p.m. local time in nevada. it was a p-51 vintage mustang aircraft which crashed into what they're describing into the box seat area at the front of the grant stand. jeff martinez, kntv weather man, told the press he saw the plane veer to the right and auguered into the ground. the pilot was 80-year-old jimmy lee ward. this is his picture from his facebook page. krnv reports he's 80 years old and from florida. this is him flying the plane while qualifying for the air races. page says he'd been racing

airplanes since the mid 1970s. there's no word yet on why exactly this plane went down or perhaps more importantly now exactly how many people have been injured in this incident. medical officials say that 40 people, 40 people have been taken to local hospitals by ambulance and at least one person has been flown to a hospital. joining us now on the phone is reporter andrew greco from our reno affiliate krnv tv. you heard what i just said about what we know there. do you have additional information about the extent of the injuries and what happened here? >> well, rachel, i can tell you right now i'm looking at i'd say three or four dozen people, these are people from the media, these are also some of the plane enthusiasts, some who have been here at the reno national championship area. looking at people really from different law agencies. we are standing by for a news conference that's going to happen any minute now. so we should get some more

concrete information i would say any minute now. i think it goes without saying that it's basically a scene of shock here. these air races have been going on for decades and there have been pilots who have crashed before, but nothing like what has taken place today. we, as you have told your audience, a p-51 has gone down into an area where we would think that maybe dozens of people were watching the air races. so in years past, the crashes have not involved bystanders. where it looks like today that has been the case. so i've also heard some people wondering, you know, could this be the end of the air races, with something like this happening? but it's too soon, of course, to get into that. that is for another day. right now we want to know more about how many people were injured and if anyone died today, unfortunately, or maybe how many people died. and it looks like the news conference is about to get under way any minute now. and if you would like to come back to me later in your show, i bet you i can give you and your audience some more concrete

information. rachel? >> absolutely, thank you, andrew. one last question. from the footage we can see one area of seating from which the crash was viewed. who would have been sitting in the area it seems like the plane went down into? >> well, there are some witnesses who i talked to that said it was a vip area, but i do not have that confirmed. of course, in these kinds of emergency situations, the media is not the first priority, as all the respondsers deal with their work. we have not been officially addressed yet. i can tell you some of the witnesses said it was a vip area. possibly dozens of people who were there watching the race. >> andrew, are there multiple ambulances or air ambulances on scene that you can tell? >> oh, there were dozens of ambulances here. i think most of them have already taken people back to the area hospitals here in the reno area. but there were i would say dozens of ambulances from what i saw. you had some flights -- some helicopters above. right now i do not see any

helicopters and i would think that most the ambulances have now taken the patients back to the hospitals. >> andrew del greco from reno affiliate krnv tv. thank you very much. again, the basics of the situation are that a vintage plane participating in an air race in reno, nevada, has crashed. apparently crashed into a grandstand area. the footage that we have of the moment of impact is taken, as you can see here, from one area of seating at this air race. the reason that there may be so many casualties in this event, again, we do not have confirmed deaths, but reports of dozens of casualties. the reason there may be people hurt here, although you can't see it in this footage, apparently this plane went down into another area of seating, described as a grandstand. it's possible that that was a vip area, although we do not have that confirmation. it's also possible that may have been a grandstand where members of the media who were covering

this event would have been seated for doing that. again, that is unconfirmed. we know it's a separate grandstand from the seating area that you can see here. we are expecting further information from the authorities as they start to release information, again, this is still an unfolding crisis in reno. also reporters on scene as we are able to get more concrete information about the toll here, about what caused the crash and about what to expect as the night rolls owen in reno, we will keep you posted. this is breaking news here on msnbc. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada,

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again, breaking news at this hour in reno, nevada, where at an air race event the pilot of a vintage aircraft, world war ii aircraft, has appeared to crashed into an area where spectators were watching the race event. we do not at this point have confirmed deaths but we have multiple reports of a great deal -- a great number of casualties. we're hearing doese ining dozen injured at least in this event

in reno, nevada. this happened -- this is daylight here. this is three hours earlier than the east coast. this was 4:30 p.m. nevada time. and that shows the moment of impact. what you can't see clearly from these images is that the place that the plane hit the ground is thought to have been a grandstand area that was relatively well populated. you can see that this video was shot by somebody who was there watching the air race from one area of seating, but again, the plane seems to have gone down into another area of seating. that's why we are talking about dozens of casualties on the ground. we've heard reports of dozens of ambulances taking people to hospitals and some air ambulances on site. moments ago, just moments ago, officials on site held this very informal press conference. watch. >> i've spent quite a bit of time with the family. they're obviously devastated. she was a close friend of all of

ours. we're going to have a memorial service in their pit at 1:00 tomorrow. best wishes to the family. i'll take questions. >> what else can you tell us about the pilot, sir? >> the pilot was a good friend. he's been here a long, long time. he's worked very hard to compete this year. all i've heard are rumors like all the rest of you have as to what caused the problem. jimmy is a real estate developer out of florida. most of his family was here. >> and a number of other pilots came from his group, is that correct, who are competing this weekend? >> there's a lot of them. it's a close-knit family. there's a lot of them here. >> are any spectators dead? >> i believe probably so. i'm not going to -- >> any idea on any -- >> i don't have a number. i'm not going to -- just to the east of the center of the

grandstands is the measure mark. and from the east there, the aircraft and the parts dispersed east, rows "a" and "b" in the box. i don't know how far down it went. it pretty well wiped out the front of the box area, the aircraft, parts as well went to the north. >> can you tell us what people heard and saw in the moments before the crash? did the engine rev? >> it appeared as though he lost control of the aircraft. >> did the engines rev or go silent? >> don't know. [ inaudible question ] >> that's the way they react. probably that's what he tried to. it had to be a control service problem. most probably. questions, anymore? guys? >> anymore press conferences tonight? >> where's my -- what do you

think? why don't we do this? let's schedule another one at 7:00 and then i'll give the information i've been able to pick up between now and then. the governor's on his way out. mayor kashel on his way out. city manager is on his way out. we'll be providing them with a briefing as well. and at 7:00 i think is a fair time to be able to give you some more accurate information. >> will you send out press releases after that? >> we'll send out press releases. [ inaudible question ] >> fairly full, especially in that area. a lot of repeat fans. they do pack up bigger than the general -- the reserve grandstands do on friday. anything else? >> he was a real estate

developer? >> he was a real estate developer in florida. >> how long had he been flying? >> jimmy's been here for a long time. >> 1975. >> '75. there we go. thank you. any other questions, guys? i'm happy to answer whatever i know. >> you didn't know how many fatalities? do you have any idea, rough number of injuries? dozens are we talking? >> we're talking in 40, 50 total involved is my guess. i was out there. that was the estimate i made when i was on the site. >> we saw a lot of ambulances. did you see a number -- is this a mass casualty incident? >> it is a mass casualty situation. [ inaudible question ] >> it clicks into position automatically. we went through a drill two months ago on a mass casualty situation.

we go through one every two years. and we have a certain protocol that we go into on site. we take control immediately and then it's handed off into the true mass casualty situation as soon as it's deemed to be that. question? [ inaudible question ] >> that's up to valerie. we'll call general press briefings when we have information. so all i can tell you at this point, 7:00. if it looks like we have more information that's going to come by, we will tell you at that point in time when the next one will be. >> this is the latest from reno, nevada. mike houghton speaking here, president and ceo of reno air racing -- the air races in reno, the site of what you see mr. houghton describing as a mass casualty event. the breaking news at this hour is a vintage world war ii era

plane piloted apparently by 80-year-old jimmy leeward, a real estate developer, from florida has crashed into the grandstands at this air race in reno. according to "reno gazette journal" the number they're putting on it in terms of injuries, so far 40 people have been taken to local hospitals by ambulances and one person flown to the hospital. we hear the round number of dozens have people having been injured here. mr. houghton, the head of the racing association on site there speaking to the press. when asked if there were deaths on the ground, he said i imagine that is true given what happened with this crash. but, again, deaths are not being confirmed officially at this point. we're being told that the governor, brian sandival of nevada and the mayor are on their way out to the site of this crash in reno. joining us on the phone now, greg fithe, former investigator with the ntsb. thanks very much for joining us. appreciate your time tonight. >> you're welcome. >> how dangerous are air race

events like this? and have there been recent events at air races that should make us worry about them in terms of their safety? >> well, this is really the only type of air race of its kind in the world. there are other types of high-speed events, the redbull pylon racing. this type of race is really one of a kind. there have been a lot of safe guards built into this racing over the years from lessons learned from past incideacciden. you can never mitigate the risk to zero because, you know, when you have an aircraft moving at 400, 500 miles an hour, things happen very quickly. the altitude of the aircraft is very low. so any kind of reaction time that the pilot may have or if you have a mechanical problem may not allow the safety margins that are typically built into the normal part of the racing course. >> we're told that this was a vintage aircraft that crashed. a p-51 mustang.

do you know anything about that specific type of aircraft or even that general type of vintage aircraft? >> the p-51 was the mainstay in world war ii. it was a well renowned aircraft that escorted the planes. these aircraft are highly modified. though the base aircraft may be a p-51, this airplane is highly modified with very large engines. the aerodynamic characteristics and control babilty is substantially changed because of racing. because they're racing at high speeds they need to have more responsive flight controls. the base aircraft is a p-51. when you look at it, it's been highly modified. so, you know, there are other world war ii vintage aircraft flying, the p-51, the bear cats, there's the sea fury. there are a number of world war

ii vintage airplanes modified for this particular race. >> air crashes of all kinds are regulated differently than other forms of transportation and other more common disasters. obviously the priority on site right now in reno is to keep as many people alive as possible and get the injured to hospitals and frankly to collected dead if there are any. we heard from the head of the air racing association he expects there will be people killed among those hit by this crash on the ground. what will authorities be doing in terms of dealing with this as an air crash? will it be mostly a matter of reconstructing the crash site and as much of the plane as they can to figure out why this crash happened? >> absolutely, rachel. the big thing here is that the airplane hit at a very high rate of speed. so you can see from the latter portions of the video that i think you've been showing that there was total destruction of the airplane. it may never be known the exact mechanical malfunction or failure of the aircraft if there was a mechanical malfunction.

you have an 80-year-old pilot, you know, racing at these speeds, pulling high "g" forces. he could have had a medical condition and was pulling up. typically the procedure is if you have some sort of problem, you'll typically call may day, which some folks have said that this pilot may have called a may day, may day, may day, then pulled up which would be a standard protocol to get out of the racer's way and maneuver the airplane to a safe haven, either, you know, put the airplane down somewhere else or land. but from all accounts, and some of that video that i've seen, it looks like there was a total loss of control. but you don't know if it's mechanical or human. that is the pilot suffering some sort of medical problem that resulted in the loss of control of the airplane. >> greg feith, former investigator with the ntsb. thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it, sir. >> you're welcome. >> we'll monitor the situation

and bring you new information as we receive it throughout the hour. the breaking news this hour is in reno, nevada, at an air race, a vintage world war ii era plane crashed into a grandstand laden with spectators. at this point we're hearing it's described as a mass casualty incident. local fire officials are reporting multiple spectator fatalities and critical injuries. we heard from reporters on the scene there are not only dozens of ambulances on scene including some air ambulances but dozens of people have been already been taken to the hospital. we do not have confirmed numbers on the total number of injuries, critical injuries or indeed fatalities. news is starting to trickle out from what happened here in this horrific, horrific crash in reno, nevada. we will keep you posted. [ male announcer ] this is the network.

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love it, or get your money back. jon huntsman's first campaign ad, telegraph the message, i'm going to be the weird guy in the race. that, in fact, is not me on the motorcycle. after that softest of all soft launches online, jon huntsman in-person campaign launch was a formal speech from jersey city, new jersey. a formal speech with a beautiful view of the statue of liberty in the background. just like ronald reagan did. that will be awesome. except when jon huntsman did it, his campaign neglected to frame the shot so you could see the statue of liberty. instead it was jon huntsman as you see here, his head bisected by a parked tour boat. for the members of the media who covered the jon huntsman launch with the tour boat, they got these press credentials which said they were in new york. they were not. they were in new jersey. which featured jon huntsman name

spelled wrong. they handed out press badges that had their own candidate's name misspelled. end when the press tried to follow the candidate from his announcement to his first campaign event in new hampshire that day, the press were led accidentally to a plane that was actually bound not for new hampshire but for saudi arabia. so is a logistically troubled campaign launch day for jon huntsman. you know what? whatever. everybody has their moments. last night we did half of this show without a teleprompter. when these things happen you just move on. or in the case of the jon huntsman campaign, you try to move on but instead what happens is you just continue with the mishaps and the flubs and you hope nobody extrapolates greater political meaning from fact these flubs keep happening. remember how the campaign spelled jon huntsman's name wrong on the credentials the first day and that was super embarrassing? that did not stop the jon huntsman campaign from doing it again. in a mailer in the primary state of new hampshire. his own campaign making him

"john" with an "h" which is not the way you spell his name. a former jon huntsman aide did a tell all with this seven-page click-through piece on politico called inside the drama disorga tension. the aide had reached out to him to discuss concerns with the campaign and insisted he be identified in any story only as a campaign insider. after reading a real clear politics story that featured unnamed huntsman officials calling him a disruptive force, this particular aide was infuriated and agreed to go on the record. that sort of tell-all back stabby catty dirt dishing usually happens once the campaign is over. that's usually the way campaign people treat each other of the campaign lost and it's done. this is a bad sign for the campaign for jon huntsman for president that huntsman staffers and former staffers are yelling

at each other on the internet while the campaign is still going on. there's the time the huntsman campaign promised a major announcement. turned out to be the endorsement of jeb bush. but not -- it wasn't that jeb bush you're thinking of. it was this jeb bush. jeb bush jr. who's a person you never heard of. then there's jon huntsman debating. it's not that it's that bad necessarily. i think mr. huntsman did okay at the nbc debate earlier this month. no gaffes. he said nothing that got noticed at all. a few days later in the debate on cnn in tampa, florida, he went back to the i'm the weird motorcycle guy, notice me strategy. >> i want to go down and get your thoughts on something you would bring to the white house if you were the next president of the united states. >> my wife's going to kill me for saying this. as a 40 year motorcycle rider i'd bring my harley davidson and motocross bike. >> the eight republican presidential candidates. >> remember, remember when i was

the cool weird motorcycle guy though that wasn't me on the motorcycle in my ad? remember when i was that guy, not the guy whose campaign was spelling his name wrong and having their infighting on politico and i have the vote on my head? please remember me as the motorcycle guy. please. >> governor huntsman, when it comes to reforming social security, is anything from your perspective off the table? >> i don't think anything should be off the table. except maybe some of the drama that's playing out here on this floor today. i mean, to hear these two go at it over here, it's almost incredible. you have governor romney who called it a fraud in his book "no apology." i don't know if that was written by kurt cobain or not. >> is that the right audience for that? jon huntsman trying very hard but emphatically failing to lock up the influential cobain fan base vote in the republican presidential primary in tampa. maybe. i don't know. what jon huntsman needs to be doing right now is becoming a

credible third way. someone who is not in the superconservative rick perry, michele bachmann camp but who's not in the romneyesque mitt romney camp. what he's doing instead can fairly be diagnosed, even if you like jon huntsman. what's happening to his campaign right now could fairly be diagnosed as a failure to thrive. plus, not to mention, he did have the opportunity to use the huntsman theme song from that cartoon, which we offered him. he has never used it. ♪ ♪ hunts, hunts, hunts he's the huntsman ♪ ♪ into action is his cry >> if you had the option to use that and you were polling like he's polling, wouldn't you use that? given his polling. a theme song or something is in fact what jon huntsman needs. this week, in the land of jon huntsman polling, what looked like a mistake actually wasn't. the folks at gallup released

what they call, headline this, as their positive intensity scores for the republican presidential contenders. positive intensity scores. rick perry, 24, mitt romney at 16. michele bachmann at 10. ron paul at 7. jon huntsman at minus 1. a negative number in positive intensity surveying. how do you have a negative number on something that is called your positive intensity? earlier last month things were looking much better for governor huntsman when he polled all the way up at plus 1. but, hey, it is above zero. jon huntsman's national polling since he started his campaign has really been solid in the sense that it has been stable. in the "washington post"/abc poll taken in june, the month mr. huntsman announced his candidacy, he was a solid 1%. the same poll this month, he's still at 1%. last friday, seven days ago, the huntsman campaign decided it was time to do things differently,

reallocate resources, shifts staff members from the huntsman campaign hours in florida to instead huntsman campaign headquarters in new hampshire. the campaign calling the shift in strategy critical in ourests in new hampshire and across the country. for jon huntsman, winning the nomination now means winning in new hampshire. that is necessary but not sufficient. it really is necessary. presumably the campaign has some reason to believe he has the potential to do well in new hampshire or they wouldn't be talking about its importance. when you look at how huntsman is doing in got to win new hampshire to win everywhere, see his 4% in the wmur poll in may, there's one important thing about that 4%. that was before jon huntsman launched his campaign. by july, once he was in the race, he was down to 2%. so here is an open question. why is jon huntsman still in this race? maybe there are some internal polls that indicate governor huntsman will have a huge bump in the next wave of data?

tim pawlenty didn't wait for the iowa caucuses before he dropped out with a thud. jon huntsman, mr. 1%, he's still plugging away. why is that? why is he not quitting? why is he still being taken seriously? why is he still getting into the debates? it's a mystery. today especially there is a new even bigger mystery about this. why are republican establishment figures, surprising republican establishment figures, still signing up with jon huntsman now? last week we learned a top rick perry donor is becoming jon huntsman's campaign chair. and today, today from the jon huntsman campaign, this happened. >> i'm delighted today to be here with governor tom ridge. he's a war hero, he's a prosecutor, he's a businessman, he's a former congressman. twice elected governor of pennsylvania. our nation's first ever secretary of homeland security. and today i'm honored and

privileged to be able to call tom not only a friend but a supporter. >> tom ridge. tom ridge is, in fact, all of those things. war hero, prosecutor, former pennsylvania governor, george w. bush's first homeland security secretary. real serious heavy hitting no joke big deal republican party establishment type republican with national name recognition and considered for the vice presidency and all of that and he is endorsing jon huntsman. today endorsing mr. 1%. we asked mr. ridge to come on the show tonight. he was very nice but he said he was not able to be here. i have to tell you, i am desperate to know, why is this happening? what is going on here? what is the secret secret that explains why mr. 1% is still in the debates, still being taken seriously, still in the race at all and still now picking up new endorsements and new rick perry donors to come work on his campaign? joining us now is alex wagner, msnbc political analyst.

thanks for being here. >> great to be here. thanks for having me, rachel. >> is there a secret long game to explain why jon huntsman is still in the race? >> i think there is a real desire on the part of the gop establishment to have someone who is not mitt romney and not rick perry in the race and also not michele bachmann and herman cain and ron paul. the de facto candidate is -- >> santorum. >> i forgot him. it's like -- it's sort of like high school. you have the football, you have the captain of the football team, you have the president of the student council, that would be mitt romney. and then you have the weird guy in shop class who gets, like, nose bleeds at weird times. that would be jon huntsman. he keeps staying in there because i think he believes he can get to february. he can get to new hampshire and show everybody what he has. as you said. that's driven in large part by his chief strategist who ran mccain's campaign. mccain was in a similar predicament at some point in

2008 and of course ended up being the gop candidate. >> is there a problem in the mitt romney candidacy, though, that is solved by jon huntsman? >> no -- in that way -- actually go back to my high school illusion. if mitt romney is the president of the student council, jon huntsman is the annoying sergeant at arms. jon huntsman has serious b bonfid bonfides. mitt romney has some version of those. it's not like the romney/perry dynamic i liken to a jigsaw puzzle. there's not the same call and response with romney and huntsman. so in that way i think it's very difficult for huntsman to draw a line saying, look, i'm this much more compelling than mitt romney. you couple that with an abysmal performance on monday at the debates that literally gave rise, i think, across the

twitt twitterverse to #groan. it's like, stop talking. you'll get beyond 1% if you stop making the bad jokes. please do yourself a favor. >> i think your point about weaver being his campaign strategist and lost mccain campaign is apt. the strategy for his campaign depended on him being better by this at now. making some sort solve showings in the debates so far. >> everybody is waiting for the better than this to arrive. president 1% might be jon huntsman's family getting called in the polls. there's a real desire on the part of the gop establishment and the tea party base to have a candidate. they want to lock it down. they want to put a ring on it. february is a long -- it's -- that's several months from now. i think this goose may be cooked before then. >> jon huntsman, if you'd like to come on the show and tell me i am full of it and i need to give you a break because you're staying in this because you have a clear path to win it, i'll give all the time they'll allow

me to control here on msnbc to make your case. you'll have a good time. it will be fun. it will not be hostile. it will be fair. come on. my best pitch. alex wagger, msnbc political analyst. thanks for being here. do you think the pitch is going to work? >> keep mentioning beefhart. everyone loves captain beefhart. naturals from delicious, real ingredients with no artificial flavors or preservatives. naturals from purina cat chow. share a better life.

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he was still saying he was not running for president, the most definitive sign from texas go governor rick perry he was running, he started meeting with the prime minister of latvia and meeting with the former president of pakistan, musharraf. that's not exactly day in the life stuff for a texas governor. at least for this texas governor. but it is the kind of thing that you do if you're a presidential contender and want to up your worldliness quotient. now that governor perry is running and trying to keep up the perception that he is grounded in international affairs, governor perry today wrote an op-ped for "the wall street journal" on a subject of israel. he's been talking art his american state seceding from the

union, who has floated the idea of quite literally of breaking up the united states of america now. now as a presidential candidate lending his sage international advice to the world's most delicate tinderbox of a region. with protesters in egypt which borders israel, ransacking the israeli embassy with the palestinians saying they will ask the u.n. next week for statehood. with israel promising grave consequences if the palestinians do ask for that. one campaign for president wants you to look at the delicacy of that situation and think, boy, i wish rick perry were handling this. while he was president, jimmy carter brokered the first agreement by any arab country to recognize israel. that peace treaty between egypt and israel. the israeli prime minister and egyptian vice president won the nobel peace prize for the agreement. it is still in effect but under strain now 30 years later. yesterday at the carter center, i spoke with president carter and asked him what he thinks happens next here.

on the issue of mideast peace -- >> yes. >> -- after the overthrow of hosni mubarak in egypt in the arab spring uprising there, have you been distressed to see egyptians attacking the israeli embassy there and the sort of outpouring of upset and hostility to israel in post-revolutionary egypt? >> upset but not surprised. when i was in office, we had two major agreements between israel and egypt. one was a camp david accords in september of 1978. it basically dealt with the rights of the palestinians. israelis agreed -- the united states nations resolution. israelis agreed. to withdraw that military and political entities from occupied territories and to grant the palestinians full autonomy. that was basically the camp david accords. then we followed up that six

months later in the spring of 1979 with a treaty of peace between israel and egypt. a lot of people now meld the two, but they're completely different. in the last 30 years the israelis have not complied with any of their promises considering palestinian rights, always drawing from occupied territories. basically mubarak has ignored that failure. but he has insisted on the full observance of a treaty between egypt and israel. so mubarak accepted that effect. or that result. of that situation. the people of egypt have never done that. they have always insisted that the palestinian rights should be on equal basis with the treaty of peace between egypt and israel. and so it was not a surprise to me that the demonstrators wanted to see the israelis removed. it was a surprise and great

disappointment to me that the military that now rules egypt temporarily, at least, did not defend the embassy. they should have. there had been a 12-foot wall built around the israeli embassy to protect it. and it was torn down, you might say, brick by brick, with plenty of time for the military to send in egyptian troops to protect the embassy. that's a major setback and a very tragic thing to happen. but my prediction to you is that the basic terms of a treaty of peace between israel and egypt will not be add veversely effec. one of the best things to ever happen with them is to have peace with israel. israelis also know that the egyptian armed forces were the only major threat to them militarily and that was in four different wars that existed in the 25 years before i became president. syrian, jordan, the rest of them had no real threat.

able to help remove that threat to israel. so i think it's so valuable for both israel and egypt that the peace treaty will be preserved and honored by both sides. but the rights of the palestinians have not been honored and the palestinians have been very deeply disillusioned in the last few years, i would say by the two major speeches that president obama has made. one in cairo in 2009 where he said no more settlements. zero settlements. that sent a wave of jubilation to the palestinian community. and the second one was earlier this year, i believe, when he said that any future peace has got to be predicated on the 1967 borders by negotiation. and there, again, the palestinians said, well, this is what the united states has always said, it's what the united nations said, so forth. israel has rejected both of those premises put forward by obama, himself, and the

palestinians now i think in desperation since this american influence in the middle east is practical practically zero now. said, we'll go to the united nations. that's going to be a price that will evolve the next few days as the palestinians ask for recognition for statehood. maybe in a security council, almost certainly in the general assembly. and, of course, the united states will veto the security council and the general assembly would probably vote 140-150 nations in favor of palestinian statehood. which means that palestine, if people want to look it up, will have basically the same rights as the vatican now. not a full member, but the right to participate in an international fora and international organizations and so forth. >> do you think the united states should support that? >> i do. i think it would be good for israel and the united states to support, to support that. as we supported israel in 1948 when they took the same move. and then have a good faith negotiation based on what the

united states policy has always been, that is a 1967 borders with the premise that israel withdraw from the occupied territo territories. that's something netanyahu is not willing to make. his predecessors said this is what we need to do. >> president carter, thank you so much for this time. i really appreciate it. >> great to be with you. thank you for having me. >> thank you. >> thank you very coming. >> we had a ton of feedback on the show after showing the first half of my interview with president carter. thank you all for that. the sections we showed last night and the second half we just showed now are posted in sequence online at maddowblog.com for your future reference. we'll be right back with the latest from the plane crash news. a plane crash at an air race in reno, nevada. as a manager, my team counts on me to stay focused.

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the races were going on. on the third lap, second or third lap, it came up over this hangar that we're standing next to. pulled out of the race and did kind of a may day. as he was going up. and it finally turned and did a nose dive and then it turned over to the -- in front of the grandstand and did a nose dive all the way down and went straight down. we saw everything -- the plane

just splattered. into the box seats from what we've heard. >> and, i mean, when you were seeing this, what was going there are your mind? >> well, identify seen this before. planes pull out because they have problems and do this little may day and the fire trucks come in and they may land safely. >> not tonight. an eyewitness statement from the plane crash tonight in reno, nevada. again, what we know the basics of world war ii era fighter plane, crashed into the box seat area in front of the grandstands, 4:30 we do not have hard numbers in terms of the number of people injured or dead. the pilot is jimmy leeward of ocala, florida. he's an 80-year-old man. he's the owner of leeward air ranch racing team, a well known

racing pilot. he's flown more than 120 races and served as a stunt pilot for numerous movies. in an interview with the ocala star banner last year, he described how he has flown 250 types of planes and has a particular fondness for the p-51. they're more fun, more speed, more challenge. speed, speed and more speed. terms of the event that this happened at, the associated press describes it as like a car race in the sky. with planes flying wing tip to wing tip as low as 50 feet off the sage brush at speeds sometimes surpassing 500 miles per hour. pilots follow an oval path around pylons with distances and speeds depending on the class of aircraft. ntsb -- a former ntsb we spoke with told us that there is no other air race exactly like this in the country. in terms of what we know about injuries and deaths, the person who is the head of the air racing association that puts on this event said that pilot was

killed in this crash. that is not hard to believe given the footage that we have of the actual impact. in term of other people killed on the ground, northern nevada medical center in sparks, nevada, sparks, nevada, being a community near reno, they received eight patients injured from the crash. five of the eight people they received are in serious condition. three of them are in good condition. there are two other area hospitals. there are patients receiving patients from the airfield. i don't have word from st. mary's regional medical if they have in fact put out a patient statementment we do know from renoun that within the last hour is that two people who they were treating for injuries as a result of this crash have died of the 22 patients that renoun is treating, they say that nine of those 22 are in critical condition. that is what we know right now. but on the scene is mckenzie warren. she is with our nbc affiliate in

reno. can you give us anything of an update in terms of what we understand about why this crash happened and how many people may be affected? >> reporter: i just got back from speaking with one of the pilots flying in this unlimited race. you talk about 500 miles per hour, this was the race, the 500 miles per hour. something went wrong. when your prop is going 500 miles an hour in one direction and something pops, it could have been the trim tab, that sends your plane in complete tailspin and downward. it was fast. it was violent, into a crowd of spectators. they rushed us off the scene very quickly. there were body parts, flesh, a lot of volunteers. this is a military event. so a lot of people train in this type of situation. they jumped into action. the triage here was beyond intense.

75 people were wounded. for me on the ground, an eyewitness account, i can tell you that is a conservative number. there are a lot of people hurt. they're kag itcalling it a mass casualty. we're going to get more information in seven minutes. hundreds of thousands of people pour into the reno airport for this event. the event is canceled. this community is devastated. from being here all week and reporting, i was lively and exciting and the mood just switched to somber, tragic, and horrifying day out here in northern nevada. >> mckenszckenzie, what can you us about the box seats that they're describing as the stands, the spectator area where this plane appears to have made impact? who would have been sitting there? how large a seating area was that? >> reporter: it's really large seating. it's right adjacent to the grandstand which seats

thousands. these are the primo seats. hundreds of people in there. we're starting to get pictures flooding into the newsroom of our scene. debris is everywhere. people are scrambling to find outment we have kids that come here for field trips. we have military members. we have veterans, families. this is a family event. a lot of pilots that call it a family out here. and no doubt a lot of lives lost. people are really hesitant to go on camera us with, a lot of open wounds and the details are sketchy at this point. >> mckenzie warren, thank you. we'll be bringing that you press conference live at the top of the hour. thank you. >> reporter: thank you. >> joining us is mike draper, a spokesman for the national championship air races. my condolences tonight. thank you for joining us. >> thank you. >> what can you tell us in terms of the expected toll of this incident in terms of how the -- how the injured are being cared

for and how many people may have been injured in this incident? >> rachael, we -- it is a mass casualty incident. there is protocol in place at the air races puts together with local emergency personnel and the nevada national guard. and that emergency protocol is being followed. i can tell that you all local emergency personnel and national guard since the base -- or the airfield actually is next to a national guard base. they all jumped into action immediately. and the casualties are being taken to hospitals located throughout the area. as far as the number, we still haven't been able to confirm a number. we have heard number reports. but those aren't coming from us. we don't have a number yet. we're waiting until local emergency personnel, the ambulance and hospitals can confirm that number. quite frankly, it happened so quickly and emergency personnel acted so quickly, we don't have any estimate. we're confident that numbers that we're hearing are pretty

exaggerated. we hope to be releasing numbers very shortly. >> can you tell white house would have been sitting in the grandstand area that was hit? we're hearing it described as sort of box seats. would have that been the immediate yashgs vips, any particular group of people that would have been there? >> sure. there's a grandstand which is compromise of bleachers and those sort of things. in front of it, there is a box seat area. it's three rows. i don't know how many box -- numbers of box seats there are. but those box seats go to the larger sponsors, people who want to bring their companies or do corporate partnerships. each box seat sits 15 people. >> okay. in terms of the management of this event, mr. draper, there have been safety concerns, obviously. are you confident that your association had done everything possible to make this event safe for spectators and pilots?

is there anything you could have done that you didn't do? >> without knowing the cause of the accident, i can tell you that we work year round on safety. and fans and pilots are foremost priorities, as can you imagine. that time i'll tell you that we thought through every sort of emergency protocol and safety plan that we possibly could. again, without knowing the cause of the accident, i can't tell if you there's anything else that we could have done. but we're confident right now that we had every safety protocol and measure. we have six classes of airports that airfield. each class, in addition to this event being governed and -- by the racing association, the faa and the national transportation safety board are both on site. and we also, each class is dictated -- or is sort of governed by an elected group of pilots that monitor their safety as well. so we have probably five different layers of safety that

look at each situation, each pilot and each plane and make sure they're as safe as possible for the event. >> mike draper, spokesman. condolences. i know you have a lot of work to do tonight. thank you. >> i appreciate it, thank you. >> joining us snou don butterfield, the pin lick information officer of the northern nevada medical center. there are nine patients from the crash being treated that hospital. thank you very much for your time tonight. what can you tell us about the number of patients that you have seen, that you expect to see as the night goes on? >> well, so far we've received nine patients. five of those are in serious condition. four of them are in good condition. and that's all we know at this time. >> in terms of the types of injuries that you're seeing, are these shrapnel injuries? are they burns? what types of injuries are you seeing? >> it's a very dynamic situation. and patients are being evaluated as we speak. so i would not be able to convey

that. >> okay. in terms of the emergency response here, we've heard reports that there were dozens of ambulances on site including some air ambulances. as far as you know, have all of the injured that are due to arrive, have they arrived? are there walking wounded who you expect to be bringing themselves in for medical care? >> that's always a possibility. it's really undetermined that time. it's a very fluid situation. >> don butterfield, northern nevada medical center. thank you for your time tonight, sir. good luck. >> thank you very much. >> joining us on phone snou greg fife. greg, if you've been able to look at any of our footage so far, you've seen that we got a few different angles on the crash. are you able to tell anything about what might have happened here by these different angles, particularly this one we're showing here about what happened with this plane? >> well, it's evident that the pilot apparently had some sort of issue. whether it was with the airport or himself. he was bailing out of the