this is kind of like "meet the press" in moscow except with right crosses. i'd like to see david gregory moderate some brawls. one more time. let's have it. come on. land the right. land the right. don't just look at him, punch him. what happened? there you go. "morning joe" starts right now. class warfare, chris, may make for really good politics, but it makes for rotten economics. with don't need a system that seeks to divide people. we don't need a system that seeks to prey on people's fear, envy, and anxiety. we need a system that creates jobs. >> i wonder if john boehner knows what it sounds like when he continues to say the position of the republican party in america is that you can't impose one more penny and taxes on the wealthiest people. i wonder if he understands how

that sounds in ohio to working families who are struggling paycheck to paycheck. >> that's exactly what i was thinking. thank you very much. good morning, everyone. it's monday, september 19th. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, we have the executive editor at random house john meacham, and senior political analyst for msnbc mark haleprin. hi, willie. >> hi, mika. >> how did it go this weekend? >> great. my sister got married. good night for the geist family. >> congratulations. >> what's that? >> did he -- >> a few feet on the dance floor. >> that's good. >> are you still -- >> no, i've lost the pillow this week, we're on the road to recovery. >> that is awesome. america exhales.

>> it's awesome. >> how was your weekend? did you have a good weekend? >> i saw a movie. >> oh. >> oh, my goodness. >> that doesn't usually happen. >> in the theater? >> in the theater. >> was it an accident? >> i fell into it. it was "i don't know how she does it." >> the mika brzezinski story. >> i walked out in a state. >> with sarah jessica parker? >> yes. >> that was not -- >> i was completely -- i didn't sleep. >> meacham, how was your weekend? >> it was lovely, thank you. i was in tennessee. >> yeah? >> and we had the season opener of the 9-year-old baseball team yesterday. >> that's great. >> and i had anxiety remembering my years. >> my son plays tee ball, as well. >> i once went 1 for 62.

>> this is all about your son. >> batted over .500. >> how was your weekend? >> excellent. saturday night dinner. tom daschle's favorite japanese restaurant, sushi cup, and then i spent my sunday morning in the church of bob dole and john mccain on "meet the press." >> it sounds like that plant that stamps out -- >> when daschle was running for election and lost and asked him what his favorite restaurant was on c span. he said, this tiny sushi place in upper northwest washington that's so good. >> it's exquisite. >> exactly. >> i just did what everybody does, right? i followed kids to practice. yelled at players and refs and

little league games. >> your daughter -- >> games your children -- >> who were you yelling at? >> stand in the park and yell at referees. >> sometimes i just yelled at referees. >> they're little girls. why are you yelling? >> because you have to set the bar high for them, as well. >> it's the whole title. you've got to work the ref. >> you always have to work the ref. kate was goalie, and there were some defenders that they were not staying in their zone. and i don't care if they're 7 or not. >> all right. we've got a lot to talk about this morning. i don't know if it's too late or better late than never. >> i watched the red sox. >> oh. >> this continues. this is my 1978. put a hash tag at the end of this one. >> you're the opposition of rooting for the yankees over the next ten days. you need the yankees to beat the rays. >> and the red sox.

the orioles. so seriously, if the sox don't make it out of the next ten days at least in the playoffs, this is the collapse. you can put this one with 1978, i don't know if you can say '86, but certainly 2003, an ugly, ugly cause yesterday. >> we're late. in just a few hours, president obama will speak in the white house rose garden where he is going to unveil his plan to cut the national debt while proposing a change to the tax system that would force millionaires to pay more. wasn't there an opportunity to do this a long time ago? >> better late than never. >> someone's going to have to explain -- >> why he didn't do this when he could actually do this. >> the president is expected to introduce -- and believe me, i want this, roughly $3 trillion in savings this morning in addition to the approximately $1

trillion in cuts already called for under the debt ceiling deal enacted in august. the proposed savings over the next the ten years would include $1.5 trillion in tax increases primarily on the wealthy through a combination of closing loopholes and limiting the amount that high earners can deduct. just over $1 trillion in war savings coming from ending the combat mission of iraq and withdrawing troops from afghanistan. >> is he suggesting we're doing this or throwing numbers? >> we need to dig into the numbers a little more. >> i have more. >> that would be helpful. we're talking the out years now. >> also $580 billion in cuts to mandatory spending which includes approximately $250 billion from medicare and $80 billion from medicaid. white house officials say the medicare cuts will not come from raising the retirement age, but it may include means testing. now the guiding principle behind the president's proposal is wealthier americans should not

pay less in taxes than middle class citizens who make less than $250,000 a year. the white house is calling it the buffett rule named after billionaire investor warren buffett who has frequently argued that the rich aren't taxed enough. in the "new york times" op-ed. >> whatever. whatever. i'm going to sit here and i'm not going to give my money back to the treasury like i could. >> let me ask -- am i curious. are we just talking millionaires and billionaires? or is he going down to $250,000. >> millionaires. >> i don't think he will. but i want to apologize to you because i have told you several months that the president would take on social security reform as part of this process. and i think this was pretty much his last chance to lead on it and he is not. that is not here. >> you don't have to apologize to me, mark haleprin, apologize to future americans. >> the problem is -- the president is on the merits right that any comprehensive deficit

reduction is going to have to include new revenue. the problem is, he's leading with it now. and the republicans are going to focus on that and reject that and pretend to engage with his other ideas, but they're not. this is not going to move anything at all, and it's going to be back up to the super committee. >> john meacham, what are your takes? >> on the several items here. >> i think there's a keyword with apologies to mika. i think the word malaise has a lot of application here. i looked at some of the numbers over the weekend on the presidential approval. president carter was -- he didn't begin his real descent until '79. even truman was at 52% -- >> was truman at 52%? >> in the fall of '47. >> are you serious? >> yeah, and obama's at 43%.

and reagan was already on his way back in in '83 at 47%. >> reagan also had the economy. the economy was starting to move for reagan, and it's just -- >> the counter indicator, clinton was at 44%, so he was still down, but again -- >> then again, he's bill clinton. >> exactly. >> he doesn't feel gravity's pull. >> he does not. i just think it's a big, big mess. and the president has given up the chance now to lead effectively on this. and the more we pound the table and say lead somehow or another it becomes -- >> my question, in december during a lame duck session, chuck schumer put to vote the raising of the bush tax cuts, the standard to $1 million from $250,000, they couldn't even get cloture on that. what's different today than in

december? >> the white house is still frustrated and understandably so. the republicans aren't saying how they're going to make up the difference here if they don't go for new revenue. so i think what the president thinks is different is the super committee has to meet that number. good luck to anybody reaching that number -- >> excuse me, haleprin, wasn't there more of an opportunity to do this about an year -- to make this happen, and now it seems like this is being proposed when it won't happen. am i wrong? >> you know -- i don't -- >> a large element -- the president's proposal will not be useless in the sense that i think large -- a lot of what the super committee will end up doing will reflect and match up with what the president proposes. >> hold on a second. listen, any time is a good time. >> i think it's a great time. i don't think it's going to happen. >> i don't think it's going to happen. i wish he would've -- and we've said it here, i wish he would've been more responsible last

december when he was proud of himself for making a deal. that extended tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. what concerns me about this and just getting the details out of the "wall street journal" right now, he's still going to families making $250,000 or more. if you started with millionaires and billionaires -- i'm sorry, in the state that we're in right now with the divergence between the rich and poor, with the fact that a lot of the money being made is being made on wall street. and we've got a tax code that's not as -- it doesn't push the type of productivity that we want to push. we want to -- you can put taxes in place that will incentivize activity and deincentivize activity. i understand taxes on millionaires and billionaires to go back to the 1990s. but in this economy, taxing families making $250,000. i know i sound like a broken

record. it's a huge difference between a family of four, family of five in manhattan or atlanta or birmingham making $250,000 and somebody making $1 million. >> yes. >> a big difference. >> all right. so -- >> and a lot of small businesses are run by owners in that income. so i -- i wish they hadn't have started there. if you wanted a clean, political kill, you start with the millionaires and the billionaires tax, and the president could've passed that. or at least made the republicans look bad. >> it's not like this isn't what you're talking about isn't kind of a new idea. we have been talking about this for two years. and i don't think we're the only ones. meanwhile, we're hearing about protests that are happening. and that's -- and the mayor making comments about class warfare. paul ryan making comments about class warfare, my dad making them two years ago. and when he does that, it ends up happening. go ahead. >> one of the parts of this

discussion that i think plays into the right track, wrong track is when we're talking about taxes on any group, you're talking about taking something out of the private sector. and if you talk to any businessman, what they want is certainty, they want to be clear that if they make an investment, there's not going to be some regulatory rock hitting them that they weren't expecting. and i think the conversation about the surtax or the special tax is unfortunate politically and culturally because it's not about growth. it's not about tax reform, it's not about, okay, you know what? you're right, there is this disparity, we're going to close some of these loopholes, balance this out. but you know what? the only way to get out of this is somebody's going to think of a new idea and we're going to grow. and that's just not a word you hear right now because we're still in this triage. >> cbs, "new york times" poll shows taxes over $250,000 be

used to reduce the deficit. >> the president has been criticized for some time about leadership short comings. i think the biggest shortcoming has been that, you're right, that there is not a certainty. things seem to be of an ad hoc nature. you talk about a stimulus program you throw on nancy pelosi while he stands on the side of the court or a health care bill that they fight for a year and a half that they throw to the house and the senate while the president stands on the side of the court. and again, a year and a half into the most heated ideological debate of his presidency, democrats were coming on this show having no idea whether he was for or against the public option. because he revealed his hand to nobody. he's always on the side of the court. and when this president said in 2004, mark haleprin, i'm lebron, baby, he meant it. he's disappeared in critical

times. and just like lebron in the finals. and, again, i'm glad that he's put something out. there's no way in the world it's going to pass because of the contours of it. and also, i think this is just a bigger problem in washington, d.c., nobody's planning for the next century. they're planning for the next quarter. let's do some really quick investments in green energy and hope -- you're not going to create jobs that way. you invest in green energy to dominate the next century. not to sort of poke the numbers over the next 90 days. >> he's going to have to find a way to get john boehner to do business with him to get anything done. and as opposed to tax reform, which will be in the plan, as well, but will not get as much attention really makes it difficult to get the republicans to say what needs to be done to

strike a deal, which is we're all going to make sacrifices. republicans are cherry picking the things they don't like saying somewhat disingenuously, oh, we're desperate to work with the president to get things done. and that's the position they can maintain for the next few weeks. >> i'm desperate for a deal to be done to help this economy get moving again. but there's no way i would support tax increases on families making $250,000, not in a million years. >> i would on millionaires. >> that's what i'm saying, get up to $1 million. and warren buffett, he wants to pay taxes, i would have a special tax for warren buffett. and people that come on the air -- >> you have to pay them. really quick and then i want to get to bill. >> biggest red flag, over $3 trillion in tax cuts over ten years, $1.5 trillion of tax increases something republicans have said over and over again, there will not be tax increases.

>> that's not the ten to one deal they rejected. >> and then $580 billion is something that the democrats reject. >> right. on the tax front. there really is an opportunity for a deal to be done. we had paul ryan talking about it, we had the white house talking about it. >> working on it privately. >> dave camp, the head of the ways and means committee on taxes. we could have fundamental tax reform. and we could make millionaires and billionaires pay more than 18% in taxes. america wants that. p populists on the republican side want that. i don't care what other people in washington, d.c. say. i could win an election with tea party people time and time again saying make the billionaires pay more in taxes than you and your friend. >> and you get major tax reform in america, you need a strong president and a leading member of the or party on capitol hill

who is a deal maker. >> a lot of people are talking about the republican field and frustration with this president and you heard dick cheney among others talking about hillary clinton as a possible candidate. her husband took this issue on and answered the question about it, i think, brilliantly because i agree that's exactly what dick cheney's up to. he's good. >> i'm always gratified when anybody says anything nice about her and i very much agree she's done a good job. but i also have a high regard for vice president cheney's political skills. and i think one of those great skills is sewing discord among the opposition. she is a member of this administration and committed to doing it, and i think he by saying something nice about her in the way he did it knew that it might cause a little trouble. i don't want to help him succeed in his political strategy, but i admire he's out there still hitting the ball.

>> i like that. he's still out there hitting the ball. >> who? >> william jefferson clinton. >> no, but he's right. >> yeah. >> that's so exactly what is happening. it's transparent. >> well, i'll tell you what, there are a lot of democrats that would love his wife to be on the ticket in '12 right now. there's no doubt about it. and you always get collective rolling of the eyes whenever you start talking about things like this, but it is a possibility, so let us talk about it. because i will guarantee you and john meacham's our historian, i was playing wiffle ball at the time, so i don't remember what happened in september of 1967. nobody on september 19th, 1967 ever dreamed in a million years that six months later lyndon johnson would announce to the

country on march the 30th that he was not running for reelection. six months is a lifetime. a week is a lifetime, six months is a lifetime. if these numbers keep going down, is there any possibility that this president decides to step down? >> no, i don't think so because he's a very competitive guy. and he knows if -- >> and of course, lyndon johnson wasn't. he read bible scriptures -- >> he's an historical figure of incredible significance. and if he's a one-term president, some will write him off in history as historical accident. he's going to run again, but he's going to have to figure out a better plan than he's got right now or he'll be in big trouble. >> i wonder how excited people around him are that are close to him for him running again. you do get the sense talking to people in the white house that most of the people in obama's closest quarters feel like he's

doing america a favor. and he hears at the end of the day that america is not worthy of him. i just -- i think it's a possibility at some point if the numbers keep going down that somebody like hillary could step in. >> i think he would want -- i think he does have the george h.w. bush model very much in his head that he wants that to be a noble fight that he loses and he can say he was right. i don't think there's any chance. >> and that's what i see in latest proposal. it's being teed up. rob reiner on the set also tom brokaw, and in a few minutes, peter king. up next, why the white house is already doing damage control over a new insider book. it's one of the top stories next in politico. but first, here is meteorologist ryan phillips with a check on the forecast. >> good morning to you. very chilly conditions out and about across the northeast. like those temperatures in the

40s and 50s, little too soon to be bringing on fall. but skies are mostly clear, we'll see a lot of sunshine in the northeast today. rain's approaching, they'll catch up with us tomorrow. your forecast today, 56 in albany, 63 boston. but lots of sunshine here in new york, 72, warmer yet in d.c., temperatures there around 73. the storms held at bay to the west today. and we're going to gradually see a nice warm-up for the rest of the week. that's a quick look at your forecast. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪ ♪ ♪ three, six, nine ♪ the goose drank wine ♪ the monkey chew tobacco on the streetcar line ♪ ♪ ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ pat it on your partner's hand ♪ ♪ right hand ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ cross it with your left arm ♪ pat your partner's left palm ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand, pat your partner's right palm ♪

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hey, it's sandra -- from accounting. peter. i can see that you're busy... but you were gonna help us crunch the numbers for accounts receivable today.

i mean i know that this is important. well, both are important. let's be clear. they are but this is important too. [ man ] the receivables. [ male announcer ] michelin knows it's better for xerox to help manage their finance processing. so they can focus on keeping the world moving. with xerox, you're ready for real business. welcome back to "morning joe." time now to take a look at the morning papers. "washington post" the biggest piece of space junk to fall to earth. an out of control satellite the size of a school bus is expected to crash to earth sometime later this week.

nasa isn't exactly sure when or where it will arrive. but they do expect it to break apart as it enters the atmosphere and put on a good light show. and the small town of walnut ridge, arkansas, is trying to cash in on the biggest sthing t hit the small town, the liverpool fab four stopped there for about 15 minutes to change planes while hundreds of locals showed up to catch a glimpse. this weekend they unveiled a beatles statue to mark the anniversary of the event. i love that. now on to our parade of papers. dallas morning news, rick perry's late entry to the race has been playing catch-up on social media. seven times the size of perry. >> we're talking seventh today, you know who has a twitter following seven times that of mitt romney? >> who? >> human cheese curds. >> we helped his followers by

advertising. >> pre-christmas sales. you're looking good. >> that time of year again. good morning, jim. >> how you doing? >> doing great. you guys have something interesting up this morning. the white house doing a little damage control, perhaps, against the new book that chronicles what is described as a dysfunctional white house called "confidence men" wall street, washington, and the education of a president written by the great investigative journalist ron suskin. and the white house says it's full of errors a after several women in senior positions have cycled through the administration. former obama communications director anita dunn saying this, this place would be in court for a hostile workplace because it actually fits all the classic legal requirements for a genuinely hostile workplace to women. dunn has disputed the quotation attributed to her inside that book, jim.

>> she doesn't remember saying this. >> said i felt like a piece of meat. you don't remember saying that. >> she doesn't remember saying it. >> that's like larry summers -- >> jim, what's the story here. >> right, well, number one often these conversations are recorded. so she better hope the interview wasn't. because i think this was the most contentious piece in the book. the excerpts -- i don't see anything all thin that book, ex that. they have to spend several days beating back a book that describes the team as dysfunctional. given what people care about, given we're talking about jobs and people have concerns about h running of the country, other reporters pushing back on details big and small to make the case -- >> i thought this was supposed

to be a friendly book. they gave him unfettered access. he sat down with the president of the united states for almost an hour. this pulitzer prize winner, wasn't this supposed to be a positive book? >> they made a bad call here. he wrote three books that were critical of george w. bush, all three landed on the best seller book. so they might have made the false assumption he was going to be friendly to obama. he went into it trying to figure out why the president had lost his connection with liberal activists in the party and how the white house was functioning. so they never had a guarantee that it was going to be positive. listen, when you're an author and you're going into those, you're always pitching things like you're the best president, you're the best staffer, come talk to me. and this one fit them. because it is a hostile book. and this is a president who has had a lot of books written about him and most of them are pretty darn positive. almost always comes off glowing, in control, man of big ideas who can communicate, and this is a

much different portrayal and it happens to fit with the concerns a lot of independents have about him, about whether or not he's up to the job. can he manage a white house, manage the presidency? that's why it's problematic. >> ron suskind on "morning joe." he'll explain some of these quotes. he'll be us with tomorrow morning. >> also, jim, the famous larry summers quote already. when summers said he was an amateur and this would've never happened with clinton. >> just on the -- i'm going to read the book. but i'll just say, i believe this administration from the work i've done with the white house counsel on women and girls has hired more women than any other administration and has taken more steps for forwarding the development of women than any other administration. and if you're going to hire a lot of women, guess what? you're also going to fire some in a white house. that's what happens. >> come on, man, what are you doing? >> larry summers being

opinionated, being opinionated, have a high opinion of his own goal inside the white house is not necessarily necessarily -- >> maybe we should just salute our president like you. let's stop this, all this criticism. up next, what do we have up next? i'm sorry. >> and ron suskind on tomorrow. up next, peter king talking about -- >> he's got a couple of quotes in this new book too. in america, we believe in a future

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peter king, the latest cover features the ravens. week one win over the -- >> he played bells every sunday night. he just gets out there -- >> that's cool. >> this is exciting. >> he's half way through his monday morning quarterback column. he took a break with us here. peter -- >> which is the only thing you have to read. if you were in a complete bender all week and you turn on one thing, turn on espn. >> i think i love you. >> and hit refresh. what time do you post?

7:00, 8:00? >> it'll be about 7:40 today. >> there are guys that will just hit refresh. >> let's start with the sunday night game. vick goes back to atlanta, gets knocked out of the game, how is he doing? >> i think vick will be okay. the big question going forward is matt ryan won over the atlanta fans forever? that was the big thing last night. he had a third to half of the fans that really miss michael vick. and i think matt ryan throwing four touchdowns and leading them to long drives in the fourth quarter. now, finally, people are going to stop saying we want vick back. >> if they hadn't said that last season. do they expect him back next week? >> it's too early to tell. the nfl has this concussion protocol where if it's a serious one, he won't play next week and they'll have to play mike. >> now, i -- >> i like that kid. >> one of the nicknames in football, perhaps all of sports. i'm an atlanta fan because i was

born in atlanta. and i love vick. i was just curious, though, how did the fans respond to him? the first time he came back as a substitute last year, it was a warm reception. >> two years ago, he got a warm reception. >> was it warm last night? >> i think it was less warm, which surprised me. i thought it would be 70/30 cheers, uh i would say probably 60/40 boos from tv. >> kind of strange. >> i was surprised. >> hugged arthur blank beforehand, apologized on the nbc interview beforehand said, you know, i should have worked a little bit harder when i was there before. i thought he was all class. >> he's been very contrite, and i think he regrets sort of sticking it to the falcons and lying to the falcons, which he did do at the time when he said i wasn't involved in dog fighting. >> by gones? >> pretty much. i think deep down he'll always feel a little bit anti-vick

because of being lied to like that. and it cost him an awful lot of money. >> money. >> i've got to give you credit. the last time you were here, you and i sat previewing the season. you said the detroit lions might go to the super bowl. you were laughed out of the studio. what's going on here? another blowout win. >> they've won ten in a row if you count the preseason games. they won last four last year, all four of the preseason and the first two this year. here's what they have. they have a good defense, and they have a very good quarterback. >> fourth down, 4th and 3, they decide to go for it. they've got a killer ininstinct. >> they do. and the lions are going to be in this for a while. let's talk about the cowboys coming back. they have that ugly loss, romo was terrible, great performance by him yesterday. >> romo broke two ribs on the third snap of this game. >> here comes the play right here. >> yeah.

>> well, he gets hurt on the third play of the game, breaks two ribs, and after that throws for 320 yards, and the cowboys end up winning the game. and really, an incredible si cinderella story. michael irvin made into a football player from a reality show on spike tv. there were so many injuries that the cowboys had in this game. there's miles austin catching a touchdown pass right there. there were so many injuries in this game, i think this is the jesse holly play. now, watch this, he goes -- looks like he's going to go all the way, but dante whitner catches him from behind. but here's the great thing about this. he was one of over 500 people to try out for this reality tv show. he makes it. he's on the practice squad for two years. they get a bunch of injuries. caught his first balls in the nfl yesterday in that game. including the 77-yard pass

there, and michael irvine, you know what he said? he goes after the mess i made of my life, you know, michael irvine, it was amazing i could help somebody do something good in their life. >> and what a great day for romo, as well. he gets taken out, they fall behind, he comes back in, leads them to victory. >> great. >> great game. >> can he still play with the broken ribs? >> he's probably going to play this week. i think most guys, most quarterbacks will get that shot up. >> let's do a couple quick ones. redskins, undefeated. what kind of team are they? >> they're going to be one of these gritty teams that will go as far as beck takes them. >> not too far then. >> oh yee of little capitol hill faith. >> i saw redskins in chicago. 18 points down, like the

redskins down, they came back, 2-0, are the bills for real? >> we're getting a little bit of excitement in football. detroit and buffalo, 2-0, offense led by a harvard quarterback. who would've figured that? he's the president of the fan club of larry summers. and what happened in this game was unbelievable. they scored touchdowns about the last four times they had the ball. >> okay. the steelers last week just absolutely obliterated, but yesterday looked good. who are the pittsburgh steelers? >> they're better than they looked last week, but seattle's a terrible team. what they have to look out for, ben roethlisberger got his knee caved in yesterday. he said he's okay, but they're going to have to watch his mobility because part of his game is rolling out of the pocket. >> willie, excitement, not so in florida, the sunshine state has two of the worst football teams to ever strap on --

>> seriously. >> the dolphins are horrific, jacksonville's horrific. seriously, the jets pounded them into submission. >> yeah, they did. >> how good are the jets? >> i think they'll be good and very good as long as mark sanchez can keep his two veteran receivers happy, which i'm not sure he can do. >> and the giants playing monday night football tonight. >> tonight they'll win, but it's going to be a long season. mika's opinion page is next. coffee doesn't have vitamins... unless you want it to.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's so good to have you with us today. i want you to know we are enlivened, we are -- i think we're lifted. we're elevated by the warm e-mails and tweets that you send us every morning. so keep them coming because i

want you to know i feel the same about you. >> are they talking about his outfit? >> no, no, my outfit's fine. >> not as of yet. >> what's wrong with my outfit? >> well. it'd be fine if you weren't wearing it since friday. all right. >> it's monday. i'm tired. look at this. look at this. >> don't close up. what are you doing? >> where's the sky cam in? >> we've got one over here. they can come down on the top of my head. can we see the top of my head while mika's reading? >> look at that. see sometimes you don't see the substance. straight on it looks flat. >> can you imagine if i came to work like that? >> no, i can't. i don't think it would end up well. so go ahead while they're on the top of my head, please. >> all right. "new york times," jobs report. this is interesting, and i'd love to book this author.

>> we can book charles. >> by jim clifton. >> not so sure about clifton. >> clifton makes a striking statement. he is of course the chairman. the primary is not about peace or democracy, it's not about having a family, and it's neither about god nor about owning a home or land. the will of the world is to first and fore mast have had a good job, everything else comes after that. the only problem is there aren't enough good jobs to go around. he goes on to define a good job known as a formal job. one with a paycheck from an employer and averages 30 plus hours per week. we are losing jobs from every level. and this peace by charles blow looks at that. >> and john meacham, that's what we were talking about. so much of what clutters the space of political discourse in washington, d.c. has to do with juicing the numbers over the next three months. >> right. >> it took us longer than three

months to get here, it took us longer than a decade to get here. this is a disease that's been infecting our economy for 30 years. it's going to take us a long time to turn things around and to restructure. but our leaders in washington have to have the guts to take that message to the people of america and say we have to undergo fundamental restructuring, we have to have a tax code that doesn't encourage exotic instruments on wall street but instead promotes and encourages manufacturing plants in middle america. >> growth, i think. i think we should be talking an about investment in growth. i think the jobs issue as mika was just reading is actually a moral crisis. >> yes. >> when you think about the dignity of work and what it does to families and what it does to communities, and i think it should be addressed with that kind of clarity and urgency. franklin roosevelt saw it as a moral crisis.

and the solutions we've come to, a modern economy, has always involved both the public and the private sectors with the addition and the wondrous gift we've had for so long of being able to come up with ideas that have enabled us to grow. >> there is -- >> this is about ideas. >> this is about ideas. we have really a lack of ideas coming out of washington, new ideas. but we also seem to have a lack of compassion. there seems to be, mark haleprin. and i'm not wishing for the good old days, but there seems to be such a fundamental disconnect between washington, d.c. and the people who were hurting. fdr connected, bill clinton knew how to connect. ronald reagan knew how to connect. of course, all of these people had their political enemies. but there were majorities of americans who believed these presidents were going to fight for them to make their country better. you don't see that in washington on either side of the aisle right now. >> no, and what's staggering is

there's an urgency to this, a moral dimension and practical dimension. and the senate democrats don't want to take the president's jobs bill up for a month. even his closest allies arguably on capitol hill, senate democrats don't think that the urgency as the president. >> the senate democrats aren't taking this up for a month. they still haven't presented a budget in over 900 days, i think. we do focus on the house republicans, and we should. because they are the opposition, but the lack of activity coming out of the democratic-led senate is scandalous. it really is. >> all right. >> because if you want to know what republicans are doing, and i don't agree with all of it, i'm just saying, you want to see what they're doing, look at the bills they have passed in the house that are sitting collecting dust in the united states. okay. up next, through last night's emmy awards, we'll be right back. at aviva, we wonder why other life insurance companies

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oh, please tell me it's time. >> prime time -- >> oh, i saw -- >> watched every minute. >> did you really? let's run through some of the winners in case you didn't. a big winner of the headlines, abc's "modern family." >> first four awards. five all totaled including outstanding supporting actress,

outstanding direction for comedy series, and most importantly, outstanding comedy series goes to abc's "modern family." on the drama side, "madmen" won for best drama series winning the fourth consecutive emmy in this category. it was the only major award for the '60s series. >> jon hamm did not win. >> did not win. >> were you okay when "way too early" came in second. >> they listed it quickly. >> by the way, the writer of this series, the creator of this series last season was extraordinary. i don't know if you watched it, willie. >> yeah. >> last season was absolutely extraordinary. he keeps getting better every year. >> sparanos too, by the way. this is a great win, kyle chandler, the coach wins as that show goes off the air. best actress julianamagulies for

"the good wife. and mist a for "mike and molly." when they were announced as a nominee, they went up on stage. tina fay went up. they were doing a spoof on miss universe. so there at the end, they're all standing there on the stage together waiting to see who would win pretending to await the winner. and it was -- she was genuinely surprised. it was so funny. she got the roses and tiara. >> that is great. >> very funny bit. >> how was the show produced? did it move? >> mark haleprin. >> the writing for some of the presenters was so bad i thought it was purposefully bad. but i like the big musical numbers. >> what do you rate the production? >> "b" plus. >> did it go on too long? >> no, it was pretty tight. >> "b" plus is pretty strong for

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with regard to his tax rate if he's feeling guilty about it, i think he should send in a check. but we don't want to stagnate

this economy by raising taxes. it won't just hit individuals, david. you know, there are over 700,000 of our most successful small businesses pay taxes as individuals. not as corporations. >> welcome back to "morning joe" as we take a look at the beautiful shot of new york city as the sunrises over the big apple. joining the table mike barnicle. also mark haleprin and john meacham are still with us. >> mike, we've got to talk about the red sox. >> no, i don't want to. >> i know. it's painful. >> i think they're going to be okay. right, mike? >> here we go, mike. we've got some of the best players in baseball. i look at the lineup yesterday. look at a guy at third base. did you see the whole game? >> yeah. >> so villas two throws from third base. i guarantee you, you and i were making with great regularity when we were 12 years old. >> he's not a third baseman. >> you can't throw the ball from

third to first? >> hit a home run. >> which almost got back to three runs by throwing -- no, seriously. one of the biggest payrolls in baseball -- >> it's depressing. >> and you can't get a third baseman throw from first to third. >> here's throw one. it's not really that hard. and he does it again later in the game. you know, i'm worried that gonzalez is going to pull something going after the base. >> why are you doing this? >> it's just absolutely sickening. >> and then you get carl crawford on the bempbl. conor jackson in left field. how much are they paying crawford a year? >> $22 million. >> to sit on the bench. >> well, against a left-handed -- >> well, he hit against a left hander pretty well in the eighth or ninth inning. >> when he was at tampa bay. now at fenway park.

here's the deal, both the yankees have had a terrible september, the roxanne even worse september, but they go at it again today. they play two today. >> that's right. >> every day. >> i have the -- >> he talked about it this way. >> i always think tomorrow's another day. the question is, though, how do you get to september with this big of a payroll? and i would like to ask theo these questions one day. >> he might go to chicago. >> that would be very good for chicago and boston. >> i love it. >> mark haleprin. >> they are here friday, saturday, and sunday. >> they're going to rip off a five-game winning streak and it'll all be forgotten. >> larry's here on friday, are you going to be here? >> i'm excited. >> if he's going to be here, i'm not. >> no, you just -- >> no, seriously, he hates being -- >> he said you just leave. you just leave. >> yeah, i do. well, because larry gets a

little uptight, barnicle says. >> well, because you guys might be a little annoying, that's all. he's fine. nothing wrong with larry. >> the sox play seven of the last ten games against the orioles, the rays play seven of their last ten against the yankees. i'll tell you what, if the sox, if we can't get over the finish line with that set-up, you know what? 1978 was nothing compared to this collapse. >> prediction -- >> yeah? >> neither the yankees nor the red sox will be there in the middle of october. >> yeah, i agree. >> don't do that, barn. i'm going to get to news. >> and, actually, 4 of their 5 pitchers in both rotations, little known fact, they're pitching underhanded now. so i don't know that you're going to get -- >> tee ball. >> texas and detroit. it very well could be detroit and the phillies. >> is this being simulcast with sports news?

president obama is going to speak in the white house rose garden, i'm sure we'll be watching that, right? to unveil his plan for cutting the national debt while also proposing a change to the tax system that would force millionaires to pay more. why are you shaking your head? >> i think that it's -- i think it makes the conversation about surtax and about -- puts a negative connotation on what should be a growth agenda. >> why shouldn't millionaires pay more? >> i think -- it needs to be framed in a way that you feel -- one feels as though you're supporting a great new enterprise, a great new growth agenda. >> a bigger cause. >> the rhetoric right now is about -- we talk about surtaxes. it doesn't feel good to pay a surtax. >> we'll see how he frames it, okay, meacham. >> he's already framed it.

>> no, he's going to be in the rose garden today. >> i'm sure tiit'll be differen than it has been. >> that is a great point that there are a lot of millionaires and billionaires on wall street even that would gladly pay 4.5% more in taxes, but the thing that is bothersome to them and many other economists is the fact that it doesn't seem to be connected to a growth agenda. it doesn't seem to be connected to a bigger cause. we need this money to win this war. we need this money to create a green energy grid. we need this money to -- no, it is -- it's always led with a surtax, the rich should pay more, it is punitive because this president just bluntly wall street and main street believe doesn't understand how you build jobs, what drives this economy. >> and you don't think it plays

into the growing divide and perhaps not only uncertainty but anger in our society about the moral crisis that you brought? >> i think it absolutely does. then you have to think about it in moral terms from the beginning. >> i would love to hear that because that's what i think it is all about ultimately. yes, people want to feel confidence that they can hire and grow their businesses. they also want to feel like they're being treated fairly. >> absolutely. >> find balance. >> we've talk abouted the income divide that continues to grow. but it's also a question of what do you invest that money in, mike? and how do you use your tax code? do you use your tax code to encourage, again, exotic instruments on wall street that allow hedge funders to become billionaires many times over and pay a much lower tax rate? or do you go ahead and change those tax rules not just to punish them, but to start encouraging the right type of behavior and building manufacturing bases for working class americans in middle

america? >> look i applaud anything that applies a higher tax to those making over $1 or $2 million a year. it's scratching a sore, not cueing a rash. the tax reform is the real deal. you've got to reform the entire tax code. and if you spend any time out there trying to buy your kid a pair of sneakers or setting money aside for college tuition, you realize when it comes to taxes, john and i were talking about this earlier, it's not the inequity of the tax code that bothers a lot of people as much as the fact that bang for the buck. what am i getting for my tax dollar? getting a war? >> two wars. >> a bridge to span the ohio river? >> we're actually getting five wars. we're getting drones into three countries where we haven't declared war against and two hot wars. so yes, you're paying more taxes to fight more wars. >> and, you know, i'm paying all of these taxes and yet the roads

are crumbling, the bridges are crumbling, my kids' school sucks, you know. it's falling down. i don't think he's getting the best bang for his buck in terms of his education. the taxes that they're thinking of doing $250,000. i mean, please, stop that. if you have three kids and you're making $250,000, three kids, two in high school, one in seventh grade, you're not rich. you are not rich. >> not if you live in new york or boston. >> college tuition. >> exactly. but -- but, these are a lot of small business owners, the taxes are going to be raised. people don't understand. again, i really wish the president had started $1 million up because there are a lot of people making $250,000 putting three kids through college. maybe that's the compromise. >> there's a lot of -- >> maybe we can work through that. >> there are a lot of disconnects now keeping us from compromise. taxes is the biggest one, though. the president's proposing a huge

portion to come from higher taxes and the republicans are saying not a penny. >> what do you think of the president's plan? >> what he calls the buffett rule. >> i think it leaves out social security. i don't think that's a good idea substantively. and i think they're making a mistake as john has said a couple of times by focusing on -- by putting out the big news, a tax increase without connecting it to a higher purpose and without talking about it in the context of tax reform even though the plan will include that. >> according to the reports, he's not even going to set a rate, though, for what the billionaire and millionaires should pay. >> what do you mean? >> he's not going to say specifically -- >> so -- >> i don't understand how they can say how much deficit reduction that will produce. >> this is what he does. he goes to congress and says give us -- give us a stimulus plan, i'm going to give you no guidance. give us a health care bill, i'm going to give you no guidance. and now he wants to raise taxes on millionaires and

billionaires, but there's not a rate attached. >> it's still an opening bid that is not going to produce compromise. if it's just another attempt to create contrast for reelection, it'll have that effect. >> that's what i'm afraid of. >> if it is presented in the kind of spirit of the speech to the congress, then i think that changes the dynamics. but i do believe that simply talking about a surtax creates a corrosive political environment that's not helpful. and that's why i was shaking my head. >> steve, i think it adds equity to the conversation. and it shows there's an attempt to make more balance. >> public supports raising taxes on very wealthy. the president supports it. why are republicans in congress not afraid to fight the president on something? >> what's the answer? >> i'm asking you. >> i don't know, i can't figure it out. i'm not going to --

>> anybody know? >> they're not afraid of him. >> that's a problem. well, let's see. can we move on? turning to the race of 2012 where new poll numbers show that texas governor rick perry holds a commanding lead over his republican rivals. >> yee-haw. according to the latest cbs news new york data, tops the field with 23%, mitt romney comes in second with 16%, newt gingrich and michele bauchmann tied for third at 7%. >> michele bauchmann now down below newt gingrich edging into third place there. >> ron paul who won saturday's california republican straw poll and herman cain earned 5%. when the same voters asked if they were satisfied with the current field, 33% said yesterday while 50% said they want more choices. and disappointing news for president obam

president obama whose disapproval level at 43%. discussing a primary challenge from secretary of state hillary clinton. her husband, former president bill clinton is dismissing the talk. >> i'm always gratified whenever anyone says anything nice about her and i very much agree she's done a good job. but i also have a high regard for vice president cheney's political skills. and i think one of those great skills is sewing discord among the opposition. she is a member of this administration and committed to doing it, and i think he by saying something nice about her in the way he did it knew that it might cause a little trouble. i don't want to help him succeed in his political strategy, but i admire the fact he's still out there hitting the ball. >> yeah. exactly what he's doing. >> he is doing that. >> i don't know. you don't know about that. mark haleprin, do you think -- do you think there maybe a few

democrats who would like hillary clinton at the top of the ticket? >> maybe, but everybody has learned from george h.w. bush, having a nomination challenge is lethal. bill clinton, george bush, and now barack obama have done everything you need to do to make it impractical and near impossible. i don't think she'll do it, and i don't think anybody will do it and it's to his benefit. >> so this poll interesting. perry seems to be coming down to earth a little bit. romney still staying at that 16%, 17%. we've got another -- i think we've got -- >> neither of them is above 30% or close to a plurality to win this. >> i think. don't we have another debate this week? >> we do. >> i think every debate is bad news for rick perry. >> unless he has a good one. >> but he doesn't like debates and for a good reason. i think those numbers keep coming down for rick perry. >> to that point. i'm struck by the confidence within the romney camp about

their engagement vis-a-vis rick perry. >> yeah, i think it's actually useful in their grand strategy. >> rick perry is? >> yeah, just like palin, bauchmann, and whoever before. >> in the way he says it it's really something. >> he's still ahead. >> he's still ahead in a national poll. >> actually, they're kind of scary. seriously? >> illuminating. >> no, frightening. >> what are? >> these debates. >> of course they are. >> you don't think so? >> would you rather see "dancing with the stars." >> i think they're really scary. >> that's an imlumllumination. >> when you she that field. i'd want a really good conversation. >> very frightening, as well. >> okay. i didn't say it was. you know, you are concocting an

argument there. and i'm not even going to play. coming up, director rob reiner will be joining us onset and also tom brokaw. and up next, chuck todd. but first, here's ryan phillips with a check on the forecast. a sunny start across the northeast today, but also a cool start. temperatures in the 40s and 50s out there right now. 41 in albany, 43 in hartford, and 53 in new york, 54, philly. lower 70s for philly and new york, lots of sunshine. enjoy it today because we are back into clouds and showers as we get into the days ahead. clouds and showers on the increase in pittsburgh. chicago, 71, 77 atlanta, storms back to new orleans, and then tomorrow, the rains take over the southeast all the way to the mid-atlantic. thunderstorms in the mix. 76 storm, and light shower activity, new york to boston tomorrow. that's a quick check on the forecast. stick around "morning joe." ♪ ♪

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this is our election to lose. president obama's done everything he knows how to do to beat himself. the reason people have low confidence in president obama's policies, they're just not working everything is worse to people unemployed since he took office. gas prices are 100% higher, home values are down, debt's up by 35%. >> his default position is give a speech. he has astonishing faith in his persuasive powers. he went to massachusetts to campaign against scott brown. brown is now a senator. hep went to new jersey to campaign against chris christie, now governor. he went to virginia to campaign against bob mcdonnell who is now governor. it became less popular. he campaigned in 2010 for the

democrats -- he began his presidency flying to copenhagen to get chicago the olympics, chicago was the first city eliminated. there is no evidence that the man has rhetorical powers that he's relying on. >> okay. that's one person's point of view. >> george. >> 21 past the hour, speaking of points of view. rob, there's e-mails coming in, right? just a few. >> there's one. >> what's that? >> sunny here in north ridge, california, writes, don't they sell outfits like that at petsmart? >> like what? >> like yours. >> what are we talking about? >> thank you. >> i saw beatles ballet buzz, paul mccartney. paul mccartney's debuting at the lincoln center on thursday. he has written the score to a ballet. at the lincoln center on thursday.

now, it won't be -- it's very exciting. oceans king don. >> that's going to be incredible. >> it is going to be very exciting. paul mccartney at the lincoln center. not his first time at the lincoln center. >> with us now, political director and host of the "daily rundown," chuck todd. meacham pointed out your notes to us here. are they kind of walking back on this buffett rule? >> is it a tax or a guideline? it's not a tax. >> it's not a tax, everybody. it is simply that guiding principle. it was fascinating to hear the senior administration officials last night of which most of them will be public today when they go and do some briefings. but i asked that specific question. so, you know, walk me through this, what is the buffett tax? because the way it was reported on sunday made it seem that if it was going to be designed a la the amt, where there would be a

specific fee. if you don't pay this amount, then, you pay this amount. in extra taxes. and that's not the case. what they're saying is that, no, it's simply a principle as you're designing and deciding how many deductions, for instance, that millionaires might be eligible for. things like that. but it's not a specific extra tax. >> how exactly do you score? i'm wondering how the cbo is going to score a guiding principle. how is that score these days? >> well, i don't think they are. i think that's why -- i think what they're going to score is the specifics that he went in there with, which is these $1.5 trillion in tax hikes. $800 billion of which is a combination -- getting rid of the bush tax cuts. now they're saying if they want to lower tax rates but still find $100 billion in it, fine. and the other $700 billion comes from approximately $400 billion in getting rid of some

deductions, including ones that they've tried to get rid of before, you know, lowering from 36 to 28 charitable deductions, things like that. and then an additional $300 billion out of corporate taxes getting rid of some loopholes. again, what they're saying is this can all come in the form of lowering tax rates as long as there are -- as long as you find that amount of revenue. >> the white house is saying, chuck, give us $1.5 trillion of new revenue, and we don't care whether the rates go up or down if you want to close tax loophol loopholes, we're good with it. but we need $1.5 trillion in new revenue. >> and that's the political shot, right? that's the attempt of drawing the populous line here. you know what? the republicans are trying to protect the millionaires and president obama's trying to

save, you know, protect the middle class. i think what you clearly see there, that's the political talking point of trying to create a populist talking point. >> revenue bills do start in the house? >> yeah, it's amazing. you know, they've been huddling for ten days, you should see it, dave camp and jack lou trading proposals back and forth. yeah. no, not so much. we're all -- we've all become so cynical to this process, the irony to this bill is if republicans did want to do the grand bargain, boehner was going to get a better deal out of president obama six weeks ago. what was on the table was a better deal if you're a republican than what the president's offering now. >> but chuck, is the president -- does the white house think tax reform in the

context of the super committee is a realistic goal? >> i, you know -- >> i don't know the answer. >> listen, i don't know. nobody there believes -- this is how they put it when it comes to both their jobs bill and this. right? they will say the following. yes, we're pessimistic that congress will take this up, we're pessimistic we can cut a deal with republicans, but we think it's possible. that's their way of saying no. >> so it's like the last thing they put out, you think this is just political window dressing. they're setting the republicans up? >> well, this is also the president trying to clean up the fact that he didn't put out a bill before. let's not forget he didn't put out a debt plan before. he did put out guiding principles. the other thing about this, joe, if it doesn't -- it doesn't really go touch entitlements.

it's a little bit on medicare and medicaid and some savings, but it's not clear. there's a hint that maybe there'd be some means testing or some raising of rates for high-end beneficiaries. but this isn't some sort of dramatic attempt to deal with medicare and social security. this is not an attempt by the white house to see if they can cut a deal. and the white house would argue they've tried to do that and they didn't. this is about framing the election. >> mark, that's what you were saying earlier to me is once again they're not showing courage on entitlement. >> well, the president, as a candidate was open to dealing with it. i don't understand if you're trying to lead the adult conversation and get a comprehensive arms around the issue. even though social security is not a short-term problem, why not try to deal with it now? it's hard to understand. but paul ryan didn't deal with it in his budget either. >> social security? >> yeah. >> he dealt with medicare, though. >> yeah. >> he picked one to deal with.

>> if the president would pick one to deal with, thad be significant. chuck todd, big weekend for the "u," baby. >> i'm concerned about qb, but we may have the best running back in the country, i'm sorry trent richardson. get to know the name lamar miller. he's going to be playing a lot on sunday. >> miami hurricanes looking very good. >> ineligible. ineligible. >> that's what they called it. >> we're going to see you -- >> i hate saying it, but it's true. coming up at 9:00 a.m. eastern time on the "daily rundown," chuck, thanks. tomorrow on "morning joe," we're going to talk to jennifer granholm and george pataki. also here ron suskind. up next, dominic strauss-kahn breaks his silence on the scandal that cost him his job calling his hotel encounter a "moral failing." that story is next.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 33 past the hour. iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad arrives in new york today for the united nations general assembly. iran's courts are considering a $1 million bail deal to release two american hikers jailed there. the hikers must wait until tuesday for a second judge to approve the deal. speaking for the first time publicly since his arrest on sexual assault charges in may -- >> well, she can't be too close, dominic strauss-kahn appeared on french tv yesterday. very far away from the anchor. >> there's plexiglass. >> like a lion. he admitted that a sexual encounter did occur, but maintained it did not involve violence, strain, or aggression. >> that doesn't work. >> well, you will notice --

>> french presidential hopeful, the one-time french presidential hopeful says he regrets the act and calls it a "moral failing." really? >> that's what they're calling it these days. >> that's convenient. charges against strauss-kahn were dropped last month after information from the victim -- >> look how far she is from him. seriously. >> in france we call that spitting distance. >> yeah. >> here's what you do. >> what? >> you don't try to kiss, make out with, or do anything with a hotel maid that can be construed as attempted rape. you just don't do it, okay? you don't do it to a complete stranger and call it a moral failing. you're a pervert, all right. >> what was number two? what was number two? >> it's not funny. this guy's a joke. he's trying to call it a moral failing, groping someone in a hotel room. >> -- make out. you can't kiss, touch, or --

>> none of those are tips, joe. >> that leaves a lot of things open. coming up next, director rob reiner here onset, but first, tom brokaw and curtis wilkie join the conversation here on "morning joe." do you have an irregular heartbeat called atrial fibrillation, or afib, that's not caused by a heart valve problem? are you taking warfarin to reduce your risk of stroke caused by a clot?

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you guys have been talking about this all morning. >> exactly. tom brokaw. also at the table, former reporter for "the boston globe" curtis wilkie. he said i need somebody to interpret what curtis said. little did he know that my family lived in mississippi from '69 to '74, so i'm good. >> okay. >> his book is the "fall of the

house of zeus" now out in paper back. we have something in common. mississippi guy, been routing for ole miss. >> we had a rough weekend this past saturday. >> i know. i sent my condolences out on twitter to ole miss faithful. it's ugly. but i'll tell you what, mika shares something in common with the main character of the fall of the house of zeus. >> what's that? >> began behaving erratically after abusing painkillers. >> well. everyone has something. >> tell us how powerful he was, how connected he was. who his brother-in-law was, what he did with katrina. and yet his whole empire fell on top of him. >> well, he was brother-in-law of trent lott, but he was a big

democrat. and probably none of the contributions ever trickled your way. but he basically propped up the democratic party in mississippi. he was a very powerful influential trial lawyer, he got hundreds of millions from tobacco. >> and by the way, one of the reasons he did so well is he owned the legislature, owned the politicians, and mississippi had some of the most lax tort reform law in america. that was the place -- i know because i worked with trial lawyers for a few years, everybody wanted to get to mississippi because the rules were slanted in dickie scruggs' favor. >> it was so bad that it made the trial lawyers look bad. but dickie ultimately got ensnared by a federal investigation and questions of entrapment. that's not to say he's innocent

of all charges, but some have raised questions about entrapment. >> it's interesting also, a lot of people shocked that he switched sides in 2007 started working for the insurance companies after katrina. >> yeah, he played both sides with politics. with the law, whatever. he was very successful. >> yep. >> well, this is like brothers interviewing brothers. barnicle, brokaw, and wilkie back together. i met dickie through curtis before he got indicted at an ole miss football game. but this is a riveting tale about the kind of modern gothic south. here was a guy who had a gulf stream and a big house and lived the high life, came from nowhere from the gulf and then came to the university of mississippi where he was known as zeus. that's the title of it. and he was this dashing guy who did invent the class action with great rewards coming out of --

going after tobacco first. and curtis, who knows all these characters has written this just fascinating story. i gave it to a friend of mine here in new york the other day and he called me and said i knew about this story but until i read that i had no real idea what was going on. let me ask you a political question. curtis runs the institute of politics and journalists. he was just a scruffy reporter. haley barber, is he coming out for somebody on the republican side? >> maybe eventually, but haley plays his cards very close to the vest. so far he hasn't. he's waiting, i'm sure. >> i was struck over the weekend, joe, by the poll that showed that more than half of the likely republican voters say

they want another choice, even at this stage in the game. >> it's really unbelievable. that there is a real opening for it. haley was thinking about doing it, but decided not to. you know what's so interesting about the fall of dickie scruggs, when you would go to lawyer conventions, he would be around. but the other lawyers. he always hurt the other lawyers. he was, he carried himself in a way that man of distinction and -- >> look, he was a dashing guy. great looking guy. >> very dashing, but he always considered himself socially a step above a lot of the rough and tumble trial lawyers. >> and that, i think, is at the core of the story that makes it so compelling that you have this guy in terms of the human condition. this guy who at one stage in his life and career, there has to be invinceability he's feeling, and never sees or senses the danger that's coming down the tracks at

him. >> he was always skating on the edge anyway. he had been in and out of trouble, escaped prosecution before. he's an old navy jet pilot. i think he did time in pensacola. >> yep. >> so you talk about the painkillers. you talk about him starting to act more erratically. do family members, do friends, do former associates believe this may have led him over the line? because, listen, a lot of the trial lawyers are skating on the line all the time. you better be alert because you can fall off either side. are they blaming painkillers? >> in part. in part. also some of the companies that he kept that he went on to running around with some guys who wound up getting him in trouble. you know, the book is really more of a political book than it

is about white collar crime. it's about the politics of mississippi, which it probably not unlike northern florida, everybody knows everybody. there are a lot of fixes that go on. the paper back i've got a new chapter to try to bring it up to date. the story's still playing out. dick's in prison now, dozens of others are out. >> you're talking about it. there is a lot of this in the south, certainly not up in boston. as barnicle can tell you, pure as driven snow in boston. >> i spent my time in boston. >> you know. >> but dickie scruggs, though, wasn't just a two-bit player. that's what makes this so fascinating. he was at the center of everything. the democratic party, trent lott, the republican party -- >> he was a fraternity brother of haley barbour at ole miss.

>> one of the things that struck me, curtis, in reading the book is that at an early stage in his career, he learned the advantage of winning friends by passing envelopes about getting involved in their financial situations. and that just became part of his culture and his -- i mean i think it became part of how he expected you did business. and he grew up and grew up and grew up. and in the end, it was a $25,000 bribe with nothing -- >> chump change for him, not for me, i'm not into buffett bracket yet, but $40,000. >> was it $40,000? to a local judge. >> but the judge asked for the money. scruggs never offered the money. the judge was set up by the federal authorities to ask for the money, no problem, dick writes a check. >> that's not even a crime in the south. >> it should be a crime

anywhere. >> but here's the scene i love. oxford, mississippi, one of the most charming towns. town square, dickie scruggs, this larger than life figure has got his office on the second floor across the square from his chief rival, right? >> oh, exactly, yeah. >> and they're all on the terrace watching dickie scruggs being taken down by a judge. >> did they indict him at the grove? >> well, came close. >> good. you know about the grove. >> that's sacreligious. i think i'm going to have to come down for the alabama game. >> you're welcome. i want barnicle to to. too. >> he knows i dress up. >> exactly. thank you. >> show a little respect. >> thank you. >> when is johnny going to return? >> we're ready to bring him back

after this weekend. >> curtis wilkie, thank you. the book is "the fall of the house of zeus." up next, roger bennett is here with the "morning joe" football frenzy. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ three, six, nine ♪ the goose drank wine ♪ the monkey chew tobacco on the streetcar line ♪ ♪ ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ pat it on your partner's hand ♪ ♪ right hand ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ cross it with your left arm ♪ pat your partner's left palm ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand, pat your partner's right palm ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new beetle. it's back. ♪ clap, slap, clap your hands down the hill? man: all right. we were actually thinking, maybe... we're going to hike up here, so we'll catch up with you guys. [ indistinct talking and laughter ]

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espn soccer analyst and the host of the soccer show men in blazers.

i listen every week. 9:00 a.m. on sirius radio. also itunes and grandland podcast. roger, an absolutely miserable, miserable day in london. liverpool got thrashed. right now king kingly only has two more points at this stage in the season than uncle roy did last year. >> why have just one slumping megasports franchise when you can have two. >> stop it. >> they started the season -- >> now, roger, that's not nice. >> they started the season playing with poetry. but they hit a little roadblock. after london they went to play and it was not pretty. this is a little croatian.

they self-imploded here. two red cards. the -- the second red card for this gentleman. martin skendle. a terrifying ham. looks like his hobbies include ethnic cleansing. liverpool reckless and undisciplined. their performance so bad we could write it off as a one off. still championship material? >> they were dominated from the opening whistle. from the opening whistle -- sure, they were playing with nine men at the end. still, they completely dominated. the biggest progress is, andy and alcoholism. andy carol, a guy they paid about $40 million to, is just -- he's not up to snuff. >> if that was him playing silver yesterday, i think they should let him drink a little

more. terrible. >> horrific. >> another thing that was horrific, the forces of evil and the forces of darkness colliding. manchester united against chelsea. finding interest in this game was like piers morgan and donald trump at a knife fight. terry bradshaw again. nfl watchers a moment to look. that was absolutely spectacular. manchester united shot ahead. really, this gentleman, we've talked about him. the doe-eyed torres. fernando torres. he does this luittle shuffle. then he did this, jim. >> oh. >> oh, my lord! >> demons return. >> how much do you get paid? my 3-year-old could have made

that, torres! how do you miss that? >> this guy was the golden boy of football four years ago. now he does this. he's done the impossible. he's made the world feel sorry for a man who wins $350,000 a week. >> i do feel sorry for him. >> i'd rather watch a bunch of bunny rabbits, fluffy little rabbits put in a bag and drowned than watch that one. >> what? >> i disagree with that. let's talk about arsenal. >> what's wrong with him? who says that. >> the misery continues for arsenal. >> absolutely. a legendary club in crisis. a trip to blackburn is normally a pill for what ails you. the man with the worst fitting toupee in a world sport opened the score. then it looks like he gets paid in pies rather than money. a deft touch for a chubby man. >> it's raining. >> they have new players.

speak different languages. they're all out of position. they gave up two goals. blackburn, a terrible team, ended up winning 4-3. this is going to be one of the most open seasons i think where no one's invincible in recent history. >> you say that, but who's going to be -- it's certainly not going to be liverpool. man u continues to win. do you really think chelsea has a shot of beating them next time. >> it's a long season, jake. i'm going to be back a couple times before tend. we'll watch together. >> roger, next time, bring a bag of bunnies. >> that's terrible. >> terrible. we'll discuss the president's millionaire tax proposal with -- or maybe i should say principle with mark halperin and john meacham. in the green room, rob reiner. don't go away. we'll be right back. labored breathing ]

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class warfare, chris, may make for really good politics. but it makes for rotten economics. we don't need a system that seeks to divide people. we don't need a system that seeks to prey on people's fear, envy and anxiety. we need a system that creates

job and innovation and remove this is barriers for companies to go out and hire people. >> i wonder if john boehner know what it sounds like when he continues to say the position of the republican party in america is you can't impose one more penny in taxes on the wealthiest people. i wonder if he understands how that sounds in ohio to working families who are struggling paycheck to paycheck. good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe" as we take a live look at new york city. back with us onset, we have john meacham and mark halperin. president obama will speak in the white house rose garden where he is going to unveil his plan to cut the national debt while proposing a change to the tax system that would force millionaires to pay more. wasn't there an opportunity to do this a long time ago? just wondering. >> better late than never. >> no. i think this is about the next election. someone's going to have to explain to me why it's not. >> why he didn't do this when he could actually do this. >> the president is expected to

introduce, believe me, i want th this. the proposed savings over the next ten years would include $1.5 trillion in tax increases primarily on the wealthy through a combination of closing loopholes and limiting the amount that high earners can deduct. just over $1 trillion in war savings coming with ending the combat mission in iraq and withdrawal of the troops in afghanistan. >> is he suggesting we're going to do this or are these phony numbers? we need to dig into the numbers more. >> i have more. >> we're talking the outyears. by the time george jetson is president. >> also 5$580 billion in cuts t mandatory spending which includes approximately $250 billion from medicare and $80 billion from medicaid. white house officials say the medicare cuts will not come from raising the retirement age but may include some means testing.

the guiding principle behind the president's proposal is that wealthier americans should not pay less in taxes than middle-class citizens who make less than $250,000 a year. the white house is calling it the buffett rule named after billionaire investor warren buffett who has frequently argued that the rich aren't taxed enough. in a "new york times" op-ed -- >> whatever. whatever. blah, blah, blah. i'm going to sit here and pose and i'm not going to give my money back to the treasury like i could. let me ask, i'm just curious, are we just talking millionaires and billionaires or is he going down to $250,000 where he really starts hurting small businesses. >> i don't think he will. i want to apologize to you. because i have told you for several months that the president would take on social security reform as part of this process. and i think this was pretty much his last chance to lead on it. and he is not. that's not here. >> you don't have to apologize to me, mark halperin. nay, nay. apologize to future americans.

>> i amend that. i apologize to your children. the problem is the president is on the merit's right -- the problem is, he's leading wit now. the republicans are just going to focus on that and reject that and pretend to engage with some of his other ideas, but they're really not. i think this is not going to move anything at all and it's going to be back up to the super committee. >> john meacham, what are your takes on these several items here. >> i think there's a keyword with apologies to mika. i think the word malaise has a lot of application here. i looked at some of the numbers over the weekend on the presidential approval. president carter was -- he didn't begin his real decescent until the autumn of '79. he was at 52%. >> was truman at 52% this late?

are you serious? >> and obama's at 43%. reagan was on his way back up in '83 at 47%. >> reagan also had the economy. the economy was starting to move for reagan. it's just -- it's getting worse here. >> the counterindicator here is clinton was at 44%. so he was still -- still down. >> then again, he's bill clinton. >> he's bill clinton. exactly. >> he doesn't feel gravity's pull. >> he does not. i just think that it's a big, big mess. and the president has given up the chance now to lead effectively on this stuff as mark just said. the more we pound the table and say lead, somehow or another it becomes tinnier. >> mike, the question is, mika has more on this story, in december during the lame duck session chuck schumer put to vote the raising of the bush tax cuts, the standard to $1 million

from 250. they couldn't even get closer on that. what's different today than was in december? >> the white house is still frustrated, understandably so, the republicans aren't saying how they're going to make up the difference here if they don't go for new revenue. so i think what the president thinks is different is the super committee has to meet that number. good luck to anybody reaching that number without new revenue. >> wasn't there more of an opportunity to do this about what was it, a year -- i've got my timing off. >> in december. >> there was a huge opportunity to actually make this happen. and now it seems like this is being proposed when it won't happen. am i wrong? please tell me i'm wrong. >> the president's proposal will not be useless in the sense that i think large -- a lot of what the super committee will end up doing will reflect and match up with the president's proposal. >> all right. here's -- >> hold on one second. i was just going to say, i -- listen. any time is good time. >> i think it's a great time. i just don't think it's going to happen. >> i don't think it's going to

happen. i wish he would have -- we've said it here. i wish he would have been more responsible last december when he was just proud of himself for making a deal. that extended tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. what concerns me about this, i'm just getting the details out of the "wall street journal" right now, he's still going to families making $250,000 or more. if you start it with millionaires and billionaires, i'm sorry, in the state that we're in right now, the convergence between the rich and poor, with the fact that the lot of the money that's being made is being made on wall street. we've got a tax code that's not as -- it doesn't push the type of productivity that we want to push. we want to -- you can put taxes in place that'll incentivise activity and deincetivise activity. i understand taxes on millionaires and billionaires to

go back to the 1990s. but in this economy taxing families make $250,000, i know i sound like a broken record, it's a huge difference between a family of four, family of five in manhattan or atlanta or birmingham making $250,000 and somebody making a million bucks. >> yes. >> a big difference. >> all right. >> and a lot of small businesses are run by owners in that -- in that income. i wish they hadn't have stored it there. if you wanted a clean political kill, you start with the millionaires and the billionaires' tax and the president could have passed that. or at least made the republicans look bad. >> it's not like this isn't what you're talking about isn't kind of a new idea. we have been talking about this for two years. i don't think we're the only ones. meanwhile we're hearing about protests that are happening and the mayor making comments about class warfare, paul ryan making kmenlts about class warfare.

my dad making them two years ago. trust me, when he does that, it ends up happening. >> one of the parts of this discussion that plays into the right track, wrong track is when we're talking about taxes on any group, you're talking about taking something out of the private sector. and if you talk to any businessman, what they want is certainty. they want to be clear that if they make an investment, there's not going to be some regulatory rock hitting them that they weren't expecting. i think the conversation about the surtax or special tax is unfortunate politically and culturely because it's not about growth. it's not about tax reform. you know what, you're right. there is this disparity. we're going to close some of these loopholes. we're going to balance this out. the only way we're going to get out of this is somebody's going to think of a new idea and we're going to grow. that's not a word you hear right

now because we're still in this triage. >> the cbs/"new york times" poll, should taxes be raised on incomes over $250,000? go ahead. >> the biggest shortcoming has been -- that, you're right. it's not a certainty. things seem to be of an ad hoc nature. whether you talk about a stimulus program that you just throw on nancy pelosi while he stands on the side of the court or a health care bill that they fight for a year and a half that they throw to the house and the senate. the president stands on the side of the court. again, a year and a half into the most heated ideological debate of his presidency, democrats were coming on this show having no idea whether he was for or against the public option. because he revealed his hand to nobody. he's always on the side of the court. and when this president said in 2004, mark halperin, i'm lebron,

baby, he meant it. he's disappeared in critical times. and just like lebron in the finals. again, i'm glad that he's put something out. there's no way in the world it's going to pass because of the contours of it. and, also -- i think this is just a bigger problem in washington, d.c. nobody's planning for the next century. they're planning for the next quarter. right? let's do some really quick investments in green energy and hope we create a few -- you're not going to create jobs that way. you invest in green energy to dominate the next century. not to sort of poke the numbers over the next 90 days. >> he's still going to have to find a way to get john bane toe to do business with him to get anything done.

really makes it difficult to get the republicans to say what needs to be done to strike a deal, we're going to all make sacrifices. republicans are now cherry picking the things they don't like, saying somewhat disingenuously we're desperate to work with the president to get things done. that's a position they can maintain for the next few weeks. >> mika, i'm desperate for a deal to be done that will help this economy get moving again but there's no way i would support tax increases on families make $250,000. not in a million years. >> i would on millionaires. >> yeah. get up to $1 million. get up to -- and warren buffett, he wants to pay taxes? i would have a special tax for warren buffett and people that come on the air. >> really quick, then i want to get to -- >> biggest red flag. over $3 trillion in tax cuts over ten years. $1.5 trillion made up by tax increases. something republicans have said over and over. said again yesterday.

there will not be tax increases. that's half of what he's put out there. >> that's not the 10-1 deal they rejected. >> that's right. $580 billion in his proposal from medicare and medicaid is something democrats reject. that leaves you with the war funding if they can agree on that. >> on the tax front there really is an opportunity for a deal to be done. we had paul ryan talking about it. >> there should be. >> we had the white house talking about it. geithner's been working on it privately. david camp within the head of the ways and means committee on taxes, we could have fundamental tax reform. we could make millionaires and billionaires pay more than 18% in taxes. america wants that. that's a tea party issue. i don't care what other people in washington, d.c., say, i could win an election with tea party people time and time again saying make the billionaires pay more in taxes than you and your friends. >> and to get major tax reform

in america, you need a strong president and a leading member of the other party on capitol hill who's a deal maker and wants to do a deal. we don't have that now. >> a lot of people are talking about the republican field and frustration with this president. you heard dick cheney among others talking about hillary clinton as a possible candidate. her husband took this issue on and answered the question about it. i think brilliantly. because i agree. that's exactly what dick cheney's up to. >> he's a brilliant rascal. >> he's good. >> and good looking. >> i'm always gratified whenever anybody says anything nice about her. i very much agree that she's done a good job. but i also have a high regard for vice president cheney's political skills. and i think one of those great skills is installing discord among the opposition. she is a member of this administration and committed to doing it. and i think he by saying something nice about her in the way he did it knew that it might cause a little trouble. i don't want to help in

succeeding his political strategy, but i admire the fact that he's still out there hitting the ball. >> i like that fellow. >> you know who else is still out there hitting the ball. >> who? >> william jefferson clinton. >> no, but he's right. >> oh, yeah. >> that's so exactly what is happening, it's transparent. >> but i'll tell you what, there are a lot of democrats that would love his wife to be on the ticket in '12 right now. there's no doubt about it. and you always get collective rolling of the eyes whenever you start talking about things like this. but it is a possibility so let us talk about it. because i will guarantee you and john meacham can remember this. i was playing wiffle ball at the time so i don't recall exactly what happened in september of 1967. but i will guarantee you nobody in september -- what is today? nobody on september 19th, 1967,

ever dreamed in a million years that six months later lyndon johnson would announce to the country on march the 30th that he was not run for re-election. six months in a lifetime. what did milton say in politics? a week is a lifetime. six months is a lifetime. if these numbers keep going down twlb s there any possibility that this president decides to step down? >> no. i don't think so. because he's a very competitive guy. and he knows -- >> of course, lyndon johnson wasn't. >> if he's a two-term president he's a historical figure of significant. if he's a one-term president some will write him in history as a historical accident. he's going to run again. he's going to have to figure out a better plan than he's got right now or he'll be in big trouble. coming up next wk rob reiner joins us on the set. also, how market futures are reacting to the greek debt crisis. first, ryan phillips with a

check on the forecast. a great way to start off our workweek. certainly our monday. if you're traveling today, no airport delays. lots of sunshine in the northeast. terptures very comfortable as well. on the cool side, northeast. 55, boston. 47, hartford. 54, new york. mostly clear skies. clouds and showers on the way so enjoy today. because tomorrow rain returning to the northeast. 72 in philly today. 72 in new york. lots of sunshine there. 63 in boston. stick around. more "morning joe" coming your way after this. [ woman ] jogging stroller, you've been stuck in the garage,

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welcome back to "morning joe," willie geist and of course, a song from -- we can't get away from it. >> i've been with him and all i want to do is talk without playing that. do you know spinal tap was named the top comedy of all time? >> i cannot disagree with that. >> i can't say it's not. >> as long as rob's sitting here, i cannot disagree with that. >> i cannot say it's not. >> how are you doing, rob? >> crank it right up. >> it's like the dial. i mean, my daughter kept it on her phone message -- the exchange about why they have the audio dials. >> there are other things he has done. >> no, there's not. >> tonight on broadway for one night only is the stage reading of the new play "eight." written by oscar winning screen

writer dustin lance black, the play chronicles the trial and the federal legal challenge to california's proposition 8 ban on gay marriage. the reading has a star studded cast including ellen barkin, morgan freeman, john lithgo and rob reiner. >> the reason we're doing "eight," the american foundation for equal rights, the foundation we started to put forth the court challenge. we have teld olson and david boies together, the two guys that opposed each other in bush/gore. they have those rights. they were deemed unconstitutional by prop 8. we made a court challenge. we presented a case in district court and we won. and which basically deemed prop 8 unconstitutional. however, because there were no cameras allowed, there were

cameras, but they were not allowed to be televised, lance black said, i think it's important. this is a seminole case. like brown versus the board of education. the last big piece of the civil rights puzzle to allow the one community in america that doesn't have equal protection under the law is the gay community. proposition 8 is taking those rights away. we wanted the public to be able to see what happened in that courtroom. so lance black took the transcripts, made a compilation and culled it down to an hour and 30 minutes and we've got this play. >> so you put the prop 8 decision on par with brown v. board of education? >> well, it is in one regard. in that they said separate but equal. and thurgood marshall said, no, that everyone is equal under the law. well, there is one community in america that is not regarded as equal under the law. and that is the gay community. so we feel that this is the last piece of the civil rights puzzle

being put into place. >> when somebody says, you know, i would love to take a lawsuit, an appeal, and turn it into a broadway play, you don't have people running out of there, yay, sounds like a great idea! talk about how this idea came from his head, how it's going to be translated on to the stage and, for you, what the biggest surprise is. >> well, first of all, it's not -- we're not going to open it on broadway and hope to run. this is one night only. this is basically a teaching tool. it's a fundraiser for the american foundation for equal rights. hopefully, this play will then go on to schools and colleges around the country to be able to show what went on in that courtroom. the biggest surprise was to find out that the opposition, our opposition, the proponents of prop 8, really had no case. they had -- they brought -- they had a number of witnesses. they were deposed. and then those witnesses didn't testify. the majority of them didn't

because david boies picked them apart and those witnesses made our case for us. they had two witnesses remaining. one of whom i'm playing, a guy named david blankenhorn who basically really made our case for us. and you'll see if you come to the eugene o'neil theater. it's interesting we're doing it at the eugene o'neil theater which is the theater that puts on the book of mormon as people may know that the mormons were the main funders of proposition 8. it's kind of ironic that we're there. >> is it legalistic, rob, or is it very personal, the play? >> it's a combination of both, tom. there's some legal stuff in there. you get to see ted olson and david boies played by morgan freeman. morgan freeman plays david boies. ted olson is played by john lithgo. you get to see how they pick those witnesses apart. there is personal story of the plaintiffs. two men and two women who brought the case against at that time arnold schwarzenegger who was the governor of california and jerry brown, the attorney

general. and we show their stories as well, their personal stories and what they had to deal with. and why they want to get marry zbld big picture, ron. we know there was a big victory for marriage equality in new york not long ago. where is the country right now? because it has been voted down in several states. a lot of focus on new york. where is the country on gay marriage. >> the country right now is virtually split 50/50. i think the latest polls show that gay marriage is over the 50% mark. we're just barely over 50%. and it's interesting, because people would say, well, why bring a federal court case at this point? well, when loving versus virginia, which is back in 1967, which said that blacks and whites could not get married, almost 70% of the country was against the idea of interracial marriage. so we're much further along in terms of the public accepting the idea of gay marriage than they were at that time accepting interracial marriage. >> as you look at the issue what besides marriage do you think

needs to be addressed in the gay community in terms of discrimination? >> well, it's a domino effect. once you normalize the gay community in the eyes of everyone else, and by normalizing it we say if you can get married, you are on par with everybody else, that will then begin the process of normalizing -- listen. i'm a heterosexual person. but there's not any heterosexual person in this country that doesn't know a gay person. either part of the family, part of their workforce, part of their, you know, people that they run into. they're in our lives. they're with us. they're in government. they're in -- you know, they're in -- everywhere. >> they're in the military. >> but the point is, they're still thought of as less. >> right. >> when brown versus the board of education went through, it didn't automatically make people feel comfortable with the idea of equality for black people across the board. but it put the ball in motion to

allow that to ultimately become normalized. that's what we believe will happen here. >> do you address any religious controversies in this play? also, is there a discussion about marriage, the word "marriage" versus civil union? >> oh, yes. there's plenty of discussion about marriage and why would you say to somebody, you can -- you can't be married. you can have this. but these people can be married. it's not -- we don't believe in separate but equal in any other, you know, legal position except this. so we do talk about that. >> do you talk about the definition of marriage? >> marriage is the cornerstone of our society. it is the basis of everything we do. the supreme court has -- has ruled 14 times on the fundamental right of marriage. so if you're excluding one group of people and saying you can't get married, you're saying to that group of people, you are less.

you are regarded as less than we are. you have less rights. and with marriage comes a lot of other legal rights. >> so could you understand, though, probably about 50% of this country for whatever reasons say, okay, for 2,000, 3,000 years in western civilization marriage has been between a man and a woman -- >> in terms of how you define it. >> yeah. in terms of, yeah, marriage. i grew up that way. my parents grew up that way, et cetera, et cetera, et vacetera. can you understand why? that perhaps there are people of good faith with good hearts that love america as much as you love the constitution, as much as you, that just says -- it's like abortion. i believe this because i believe this and i just think marriage -- i'm uncomfortable. marriage should be between a man and a woman. >> absolutely. right. but the point is, the church -- you know, have your beliefs. >> oh, no, no, no. i'm just asking you --

>> i'm saying i agree. let me explain. >> i'm a little more libertarian than what i just -- >> i understand. let me address that because that's an important thing. we're saying, you can have your beliefs. that's fine. those are religious beliefs. you can hold those beliefs. but the church doesn't license marriages. the government licenses marriages. the government gives the right to churches to marry people. the government has -- so we're saying, yes, have your religious beliefs. believe what you want. but that doesn't mean that these people can't get married. it doesn't take away your religious freedoms. >> exactly. but if somebody says this is my community, this is my state, my belief is it should be marriage between just a man and a woman, are those people big gots or do they have a different world view? >> no. that's their view. that's their view. you're allowed to have your view. that doesn't mean you should impinge your view legalistically on somebody else.

>> there's something in between what you're saying and what you're saying. and that is -- >> no, no, no. hold on a second. i want to be very careful. i want to be very careful. i'm not saying this. >> i know. >> i -- i am not saying -- i'm just making sure. because every time we have this discussion in polite society, somebody at the dinner table will stand up and point to somebody else that doesn't believe in gay marriage and call him a bigot or closed minded. >> you're allowed to not believe in gay marriage. but you're not allowed to say that this group of people does not have the same rights as we do under the law. gay marriage has been a part of societies for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. this is, you know, this is not a new idea. and their witnesses actually made that case for us. >> mika? >> i think what i was trying to say was there was something about the position -- there's a difference between the position you're putting forward, joe, and you, rob, in that some people think the definition of marriage is man and woman, yet they --

gay people should still have the right that married people have. just don't call it marriage. >> but why? >> i'm just saying, isn't that another one and do you address that in the play? it's kind of an interesting conversation and it's not religious. >> we do address that. we're saying, again, why should one group of people be tarnished with a lesser word? in other words, they want to be equal parts of society. why should that group of people be said, you're not allowed to have that word "marriage." you're not allowed to have that. everybody else can have it. you can't have it. >> other groups would argue -- >> it has impact on benefits. >> it has impact on benefits, financial stuff. one of the plaintiffs, chris perry who i know very well, i work with her on children's issues in california. she said how difficult it is for her to every single day of her life to have to come out. because you go to a bank. you sign a check.

you go to a hotel. whatever. you have to say, my partner, my -- my wife. we're married. >> isn't it amazing that over the past decade, gays and lesbians, two great battles, have been too engaged in two of the most conservative institutions in western civilization. marriage and the military. is that not fascinating? >> yes. and fighting to just be -- the right to be included like everybody else in society and treated equally. >> fascinating conversation. >> there's an obvious generational component to this. if you look at the polls, people under 30, it's overwhelmingly in favor of gay marriage. >> you make a great point. when obama ran for president, my kids were saying what's the big deal about the black person running for president? we're saying, oh, my god. >> right. tom brokaw, thank you very much.

rob, will you hang around? >> i will do that. >> why not? coming up, simon hobbs is standing next to a giant pile of cash. where are you, simon? i'm coming. what's going on there? we're going to find out next on "morning joe." a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately. book it. major wow factor! where you book matters. expedia. i never saw myself here. i didn't. but with weight watchers, i can't see myself anywhere else. ♪ i'm feeling good you can be here too. go on join for free. weight watchers pointsplus. because it works.

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let get a take on this before the bell with cnbc's simon hobbs. he's live at the new york stock

exchange and he has got gobs and gobs of cash. give us some, simon. >> have you ever seen a million dollars in cash? you have now. this is it. >> if you go to john meacham's house. >> you could take a bath in it at meacham's. >> one dollar bills. there's $1,000 in each of these. today we tart the cnbc million dollar portfolio challenge. this is the top rise. second prize is a ma maserati. markets are going to open in negative territory today. it's going to be a nail biting week as to whether or not they let the greeks default. 10:30 today, guys, big, big focus is going to be when president obama walks out into the rose garden and gives us his deficit reduction plan. interesting to see the degree to which he'll try and dress it up as some sort of justice for millionaires who aren't paying enough.

if you actually look at the figures in the journal today, it's all about families with children, $250,000 or more paying more. expiration of the bush tax cuts in 2013 and this new idea there should be no deductionings at all for people earning over $250,000. that's a big focus for many people down here as, of course, we gaze upon the million dollars. back to you. >> thank you so much, simon. save some of that for us. >> what are they doing with that? >> it's going to be -- it's a cnbc challenge. >> what. as people watch we'll give you the money? >> i don't know. i want some of that action. >> i want to know. >> is that how much they gave you? >> it was unmarked bills. >> that is great. >> came over late at night. you all may remember that. there was a picture taken. >> okay. that's just fine. thank you. coming up, i still don't understand that. maybe rob can explain. coming up, we'll go through last night's emmy awards with rob reiner. keep it right here on "morning joe."

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[ laughter ] where's your tie? >> i tried, gloria, but it doesn't look good with an empty neck. >> hey, look, he wore his halloween costume. >> oh, my gosh! >> i wrote that episode, yes. it was a flashback to the first time archie and mike meet each other. there's a famous clip in there where archie is singing "god bless america" and i'm screaming at him that he's prejudice while he's singing "god bless america." >> oh, my lord.

what's it like to look back at those? >> it's like another person. my kids look at it and they go, dad, it sounds like you. but it doesn't look like you. >> how many episodes did you write? >> i wrote about four or five. four or five. >> what a thrill that had to be. >> it was great. a great experience. we thought we were doing one for the band. we didn't think that the public would accept this show. then all of a sudden it becomes this -- >> it really is strange at how it took off the way it did. you look at it now, even. i don't think -- >> you couldn't get away with it. the most un-pc show. >> it hasn't syndicated well because of that reason. i saw it a couple weeks ago. i can't believe my family and i were watching this. how amazing. liberals loved it. conservatives loved it. we were watching it in the deep south. >> we took both points of view. norman leer used to say his favorite play was major barber

even though shaw was a liberal. he presented guns and butter in equal stature. it was about archie and mike going at each other. both points of the viewer were presented. >> you won an emmy, best supporting actor 1974. >> i won a couple of those. >> "all in the family." >> it segues nicely. let's show some of the winners from last night.

a great show. i've never watched it. i should tune in. "mad men" won for best drama series. won its fourth straight emmy in that category. it was actually the only award of the night for the show but they won the big one, best drama. >> it's the first time that a drama has won four years in a row. ever. that's really interesting. >> again, i said it last time, matthew winer, his writing in this last season, just extraordinary. he keeps getting better. >> do you watch the show? >> oh, yeah. saw it, watched it from the very beginning. it's amazing. a lot of times they peter out after three years, four years or so. you know you've got something special when you look at it and halfway through the fourth season, i just started calling all my friends going, my god. he's great. >> yeah, he is. same feelings i have about "curb your enthusiasm."

>> similar type of show. >> larry to me it was the funniest year he had. >> larry had, i think bill simmons said larry had, like, 400 this year. >> he was getting good wood on the ball. >> unbelievable. unbelievable. >> some of the other winners last night. best actor in a comedy jim parsons from "the big bang theory." kyle chandler, the coach for "friday night lights." best actress, julianna marg lease and melissa mccarthy. the nominees got together and conspired to do this bit. amy poehler goes up when her name is announced as a nominee. tina fey. it turned out to be a spoof on the miss universe pageant where they're all standing and waiting for the announcement. holding hands. dramatically. >> that's adorable! >> melissa mccarthy actually won. she was genuinely surprised. she's on cbs's "mike & molly."

here it is. >> i just want to say, girls, everyone is a winner. and i know that you're going to go on to serve this body with distinction. and the emmy goes to -- melissa mccarthy! >> that is so funny. >> those were though, by the way, real tears of joy. she was excited and surprised she won. bridesmaids, breakout performance. >> brilliant. absolutely brilliant. >> she's hilarious. >> all really, really talented women up on the stage, though. >> laura linney.

>> edie falco was up there. >> next year. way too early. >> we've been snubbed for too long. rob reiner is going to run the lobbying. >> it's going to happen. >> we'll have more with rob reiner when we come back. >> they like you. they really like you. ♪ ♪ ♪ three, six, nine ♪ the goose drank wine ♪ the monkey chew tobacco on the streetcar line ♪ ♪ ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ pat it on your partner's hand ♪ ♪ right hand ♪ clap, pat, clap your hand ♪ cross it with your left arm

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i hate to bring this up again. >> we don't really have to do this. >> willie, wait a min zblut ute >> we don't have to do this. >> i have three red sox fans here. bring you up to speed on what's happened. >> willie, i got you red sox jammies. >> america's team. the heartbeat of america. >> the red sox fans are actually rooting for detroit? >> we just want to talk about it. >> for the city, verlander, jim leyland. i was happy when the saints won the super bowl. for the city. >> verlander won his 24th game yesterday. >> yes, he did. >> 12 in a row. untouchable. let's see what happened to the sox. >> come on! >> dog fight. the wild card. takes a shot off his chest. >> nice assist.

>> goes right to longoria. >> how do you score this? >> 1-5-3. >> how do you score this? >> seriously. >> this guy can't make a throw from third. >> leave him alone. >> seriously. >> youkilis is hurt. >> rays win, 8-5. boston needs the wild card. >> you made that throw when you were 12 years old from third to first. seriously. four guys at this table could have made that throw when they were 12 years old. two errors from third base. >> you're in good shape, though. yanks will take care of the rays for you. >> you a baseball fan? >> huge baseball fan. >> who do you like? >> i got to say the phillies. very tough to beat the phillies. they've got the pitching. my son, jake, has verlander in his -- in his league. >> i remember back in the '70s,

remember the celebrity baseball tournaments around all-stars. >> i almost hit one out. i hit the 385 sign. >> i remember that hit, like, 30 years ago. >> i hit off of red adams, the pitching coach for the dodgers. hit the 385 sign. >> impressive swing rob reiner has. >> we'll be right back. here's your business travel forecast. raining returning across the great lakes and into the deep south. highlighted cities here watching a slow rebound in temperatures. boston, 63. sunny and 72 in new york. detroit, storms returning. not in phoenix. lots of sunshine. highs at 103. dallas up to 88. is...competency. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go.

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they need you to translate them into portuguese. by tomorrow. [ male announcer ] ducati knows it's better for xerox to manage their global publications. so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business. where's john meacham? >> he just left. >> he just walked out.

>> i learned john meacham is not a stayer. >> he's not a stayer! what did you learn? >> a couple quick things over the weekend. vand der built moved to 3-0 receiving some votes in national polls. number two, my sister, the great libby geist married on saturday. great day in geist family history. >> beautiful. >> a person who has a large sphere of concern. as a red sox fan, he's actually rooting for the detroit tigers to win. that shows you the big heart that this guy has. >> isn't it? >> rob reiner, he's not just come lately to baseball. he could hit as a kid. he's making a movie in detroit rekrebt krently, went to see the tigers play almost every night. >> watch the president in the rose garden at 10:30 and wait to see how he frames