america's commitment to israel's security is unshakable. our friendship with israel is deep and endured. and so we believe that any lasting peace must acknowledge the very real security concerns that israel faces every single day. israel deserves recognition, deserves normal relations with its neighbors, and friends of the palestinians do them no favors by ignoring this truth. just as friends of israel must recognize the need to pursue a two-state solution with a secure israel next to an independent palestine. >> standing your ground, taking this position of principle, which is also, i think, the right position to achieve peace. i think this is a badge of honor. and i want to thank you for wearing that badge of honor and also to express my hope that others will follow your example, mr. president.

>> good morning, everyone. it's thursday, september 22nd. welcome to "morning joe." >> man, can you believe what happened in new york city yesterday? >> what? >> can you believe? >> yeah. >> that was some crazy, crazy stuff. you think that -- i mean, it's going to blow up and good things happen. good -- no great things happen. the yankees sweep the rays, and despite the fact that the red sox are 5-16 in september -- >> i love the red sox. >> 5-16, 5-16, i'm having a hard time figuring out what they're doing. but these yankee kids -- >> stop. >> these can-do kids from the bronx, willie geist -- i love them. the red sox picked up a half game last night despite laying a gigantic turd all over eventway. fenway. >> pinch hit, comes in, this is

charity at this point. >> this is serious. >> the help of youngster in need, the youngster being the red sox. >> this is like my charity work in nantucket where i help disadvantaged kids. >> bipartisan baseball. >> it is bipartisan baseball. i've never seen -- >> it's amazing. >> collapse. >> like the red sox collapsed. 5-16. >> 5-16, beckett on the hill. >> the orioles, the worst in baseball. >> yankees coming up. before the yankees. >> that's going to be fascinating. in front of the yankees, i pitch me three days in a row because i want the sox in the playoffs. >> why? >> because they're terrible in front of the new york yankees. the red sox -- this red sox team in september, which i thought was one of the great red sox teams in june and july, they just had an extraordinary lineup. this september is one of the worst playoff contenders i've ever seen in my life. >> good news for you, yankees clinch the division, so they're

on cruise control for a week. maybe you get a couple of wins in new york this weekend. >> the red sox have to worry about the angels. the angels are a fantastic team. they're 2 1/2 back also. >> now, of course, barnicle and i, barnicle gave up yesterday. >> he's in a bad place right now. barnicle, right? but alex corson reminds me on 1 1/2 hours sleep that in 1999, the yankees limped to the playoffs. >> sure. >> and then crushed my mid-atlantic braves. >> unfortunately. >> willie, joe? >> what? >> are you done? >> no. what? let's talk about -- >> with us onset mark mckinnis. and as you saw, because he can't help himself, chairman of -- >> what.

>> we're talking baseball. >> we brought him into it! >> wow. >> i was just here to help. >> good day yesterday. for barack obama, you -- it started off, i thought very badly with people sniping. i thought he did really well. i thought netanyahu was a little condescending. i don't need anybody from another country telling the united states, you know what, baby, keep it to yourself. i say this as a pro-israel guy. that said, i thought the president did a pretty darn good job in a difficult situation. >> yeah. i actually think in the last couple of weeks, he's found some mojo between this and the jobs bill. he's carrying a different weight. and i like what i saw. >> i did too. what did you think of the president yesterday? >> good. it's the right tone and the right approach. and i think you've got the house look like they're overreaching. >> the french doing an end to run.

this is a shock. >> i was confused, though. a few months ago, contrast this with, okay, let's go back to the pre-1967 borders. >> right. >> help me with that. i wouldn't think the same thing would be coming out of this guy's mouth. so help me out. what happened? how did he find god? i don't mean israeli god, i mean god in general? >> obama? >> yeah. >> well, what he said in that speech was identical to what george w. bush said, and i don't think it was. diplomatically, it may have been the same a as we said at the time, politically, though, there are a lot of people in the jewish community that were very concerned, very upset. i've got to say from new york 09 to broward county, there are a lot of jewish democratic voters that liked seeing him tell the president good job. >> president obama made his case eloque eloquently, but tomorrow is

awkward. we'll have to veto state hood for palestine despite the fact that his belief is that it should be two states. >> we go right off the top. hello, welcome to "morning joe." let's just dive in the news. no commentary, just straight news. we like to do commentary first. >> before we get to the news, how often does a guest have a scarf on? >> he's a hippie. >> what is the meaning? we all make statements. why the scarf? >> notice that donny's making this about himself. >> i'm asking this very dapper gentleman why -- >> why do guys wear a tie? is what i want to know? >> i need help being taken as seriously as possible. >> for 100 years, let's break the chain here, man. let's break the chain. >> the better question is why do

you wear baby gap t-shirts on television. >> end of that. >> we missed you on city limits, joe. >> i know. >> was it awesome? >> it was fantastic. it was great. >> i think we should be able to talk about whatever we want to talk about. but before we do that, yesterday was critical of a couple of republican candidates, as was dan senor who came out yesterday were -- or two days ago and were critical of the president. i speak specifically of romney, but rick perry holds a press conference in new york city undermining the president of the united states with foreign leaders at one of the most crucial times in recent diplomatic u.s. history. i was deeply offended by that. and i can't imagine what people like rick perry would have been saying if democrats had done that to george w. bush. under similar circumstances. >> yeah, really dangerous, joe. and, you know, you never heard

george bush in the entire presidency frame it in religious terms. never as a christian. and doing so really creates a dangerous paradigm, and in fact, enhances the arguments that the terrorists are making against us, that it's -- >> it's a crusade. >> it's a crusade. >> the whole thing -- it looked patently political. looks like he's patently going out for the jewish vote, and i think it's going to blow back on him. >> if you want to be ham fisted about social security, that's one thing. when you come to new york city and do that on national security the way he did, it sends a horrific message across the globe. >> the one thing it validated is the biggest concern about this candidate is just he's a wild card. you never know where he's going, what he's doing, and there's a scare factor with him. >> i think also, chuck todd suggested yesterday it's a

campaign that's young enough flying by the seat of their pants. so they've bumbled into this thing. and created what could be an international incident. >> well, we have perry and romney taking each other on on social security coming up in news in just a moment. but first, today is president obama's last chance to persuade the palestinians to abandon their bid for full u.n. membership and avoid a potentially embarrassing vote tomorrow. it comes as mahmoud abbas shows no sign of backing down. warning him of the united states plans to veto any security council move to recognize palestinian state hood. abbas is expected to offer his application for membership after addressing the general assembly tomorrow. earlier yesterday, while speaking to world leaders at the u.n., president obama called on both palestinians and israelis to get back to negotiations. >> i am convinced that there is

no shortcut to the end of a conflict that has endured for decades. peace is hard work. peace will not come through statements and resolutions at the united nations. if it were that easy, it would have been accomplished by now. ultimately, it is the israelis and the palestinians who must live side by side. ultimately, as the israelis and the palestinians, not us, who must reach agreement on issues that divide them. >> turning now to the 2012 race, the republican candidates are gearing up for yet another presidential debate tonight in orlando, florida, where the focus will continue to be on front runners, massachusetts governor mitt romney and rick perry. if you remember two weeks ago during the politico debate, perry faced questions about his comments referring to social security as a ponzi scheme. yesterday, mitt romney continued to criticize perry's stance that

the program should be left to the states making clear to the audience that he would protect social security. >> an entirely different alternative proposed by governor perry who is also as you know running for president. in his book that came out this year said in his view social security itself is a failure. he said by any measure, social security's a failure. i disagree. i think by the measure of the tens of millions of people who rely on social security, it's a success. i can't see anything which suggests it makes any sense whatsoever to end social security as a federal entitlement and send it back to the states. >> governor perry responded to romney's attacks calling his comments irresponsible and an age old democrat trick to scare seniors. and last night on fox, perry attempted to compare romney's positions to those of president obama. >> we need to nominate someone who will have a stark clear

difference between the republican nominee and president obama. and i think i am that person who can clearly delineate the differences. we don't need to nominate obama-ite. when you take a look at what mitt did from the standpoint of romney care in massachusetts, you're going to have a hard time finding a difference between obama care and romney care. i mean, that's just the facts, and there's no way around it. the facts are the facts. >> hmm. >> and his hair -- >> was perfect. >> what did clinton say about him? he's good looking. >> there was a song about this guy decades ago. so what's your take on this social security showdown? >> couple of things. one, mitt romney sounds like a democrat attacking rick perry on this issue. on the other hand, he senses a

vulnerability. mitt romney has become a very good candidate. very disciplined. the problem with perry. he's telling the truth on social security, which i like. the problem is that he hasn't clarified what his position is. and he's had a couple of opportunities. >> wait, he's told the truth about there being a problem with social security. but his answer is returning it to the states or just telling people under 50, you don't get it anymore. >> but he's said that in the book and he hasn't been clear in the campaign what he means by the things he said in his book. >> and is he playing to the tea party? certain elements of the tea party that would love to hear a candidate say let's abolish social security and federal entitlements? >> no, i think he thinks it needs to be reformed, but he hasn't made that clear and he needs to. >> do you agree with something -- >> he doesn't want to -- >> why doesn't he say it? you know why he doesn't say it? because he's playing -- >> i don't -- >> is he really that

inarticulate that he can't say uh-uh. >> we'll see tonight. >> come on. >> he'll evolve that. joe, i said something last week that you disagreed with. >> which one? >> we can continue to focus on this one issue or two or three other issues, but i believe people vote on a candidate. and i think that perry. >> what did i say to you yesterday? >> i think he'll kind of weasel his way out of this thing. and i think there is something about him, and i talked about this the last time in terms of this arrogantly, you know, pugilistic guy that republicans like and that mitt is lacking teeth even when he's fighting. and i still believe he has that stuff regardless of the issues. >> that lot of truth to that. couple of things. one, is in all of the campaigns, attributes are more important

than issues and people are looking for strength in a candidate. two, i heard from a "washington post" reporter the other day out in iowa talking to focus grouping voters and was surprised by how many voters he would go up to and say, i like the fact that rick perry's going to take the fight to obama. >> watch him tonight at the debate. when it first came out last week, his chest is stuck out -- watch them when they line up. i'm being serious. >> he does. >> come on, and that's both what the tea party and the moderate party like. >> good energy for sure. >> one question, if he hasn't already been asked should be asked is, if social security is "unconstitutional," then how do you give it back to the states? doesn't it remain unconstitutional? >> i'm so confused -- >> i think romney's got a lot of ammunition here, is what i'm saying. >> i think romney should be more aggressive and nail him down. wait a second, so you want to reform a program that you said a year ago was unconstitutional.

and you didn't say it off the top of your head at a county fair while you were eating a corn dog and listening to the rangers game in your left ear. you sat down, you thought about it. you wrote it in a book, they edited that book, they sent the book back to you, you read it again, you sent it back to them, it was published, you went on a book tour, you promoted that idea. this is in the core of your fabric that social security is unconstitutional and thousand you want to reform something that's unconstitutional -- >> okay. >> if he -- >> if he did it in that tone, it would be so appealing. and at the same time, i think you can poke perry. i think if somebody really went at him in an emotional way like that. not just romney saying, let me tell you the facts. i think you'll see the worst of perry. >> the problem with perry, and i know this because i've been following him for one debate

now. he doesn't have a counter punch. you can see five minutes into it. and i joked about his response being uh-uh. but that's basically the equivalent. he doesn't -- and this is why -- if romney went after him with that, he would stare into the -- he would stare into the camera and say you doing good, mitt, until you talked about poker. and it just -- how does he get around the fact that he called it unconstitutional? that he basically said he wanted to return it to the states? >> well, he needs to explain that. and he hasn't yet. >> he can't, can he? >> well, i think he can at least take a shot at it, and he has. >> i don't know. we'll see. we'll see. >> it's clearly a vulnerability and mitt romney taking advantage of it. and romney has been relentless. >> instead of saying, listen, we agree with that, but what we

need to do is tell people that are 50 and younger, you're going to get it when you're 70. >> show that we've got -- that we're bold enough to stand up and say what needs to be done. >> to save social security. >> like extend the age requirement from 65 to 67, which barack obama didn't do in his plan last week, which i was really disappointed. >> yeah. you will hear that lot about social security tonight in florida. >> for the record, and if mitt romney's people want to take note, because i know they watch this show as do -- >> everybody. >> 1.4 billion people across the globe. marco rubio won a three-way contest in florida. when charlie crist was taking mitt romney's position on social security and marco rubio said, no, we need to look at possibly raising the retirement age to 70. he said that in a fox debate when they were neck in neck. he ended up getting over 50% of the vote in a three-way race. >> that's when i thought he had

some stuff. i'll take anybody's bet that thinks marco rubio will be on the ticket for vice president. aren't you happy that the iranian hikers are home? >> you know what? stay home. if there are any borders you want to hike along -- >> canada. >> make it new mexico -- >> or france. >> go to france for the summer. >> if you want into belgium, we're good, but don't do that anymore. >> you want -- >> go to croatia, anywhere you want. >> get a gps. seriously. i just -- i'm going to be quiet. >> i'm a little tired. >> i'm going to be quiet. i'm glad for their family that they're home. but -- good. what's next? >> rem, they're playing rem. >> i cannot believe, one of the great songs of all time, rem,

this band -- >> i wish overdrive would get back together. >> can you go? >> i can't take it today. it was parents' night last night. >> how did your daughter do? >> i've got nothing against gto. >> my daughter's 8th birthday. >> terry mcauliffe is on today. should we bring the vodka over to cti? >> he won't drink in front of the president, but let's do it. >> he won't? yeah he will. up next after the break, mitt romney, corporations are people. but first, here's ryan phillips with a check on the forecast. >> good morning to you. thank you. we've got rain on the way in all day long and through the weekend in the northeast. dry right now for new york and philadelphia. but rain's going to be settling

in after the afternoon. locally heavy rains, warmer out this there morning, also humid, the cloud cover extensive and the shower chances staying with us today and on through the weekend. dry out in the west, cool in minneapolis, 55 there, storms today, 83, and the storms continue in the mid-atlantic and the northeast to wind down the workweek. tomorrow, the first day of fall. live look outside right now. stay with us, more morning joe after the break. so, how was school today ? i have to be a tree in the school play. good. you like trees. well, i like climbing them, but i've never been one. good point. ( captain ) this is your captain speaking. annie gets to be the princess. oh... but she has to kiss a boy. and he's dressed up like a big green frog ! ewww. ( announcer ) fly without putting your life on pause.

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25 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. san francisco chronicle after 11 months after dramatic shifts and forecasts, the board is considering whether to fire its embattled ceo and there's already buzz that former candidate could be tapped to lead company. to learn more about a student applying to their school, they've used facebook. >> oh no! >> the practice of screening applicants through social media is increasing despite concerns that invade student privacy. that doesn't invade privacy. if you put pictures -- >> it shows if you are smart or stupid. >> exactly. >> oh, my god.

>> i understand every picture out there, i would do it too. >> we have a column coming up that touches on this. and here's one from our parade of papers. "dallas morning news," the largest employer in texas says starting january 1st, it will no longer hire anyone who uses nicotine. yes, that is smart. the new system will not affect current employees who can still smoke, but must pay a health insurance surcharge. >> unconstitutional. >> that's fair. i'm good with it. then smoke all you want. >> you know what? it's not about -- >> some people drink. >> exactly. >> it's not about smoking. >> what's it about? >> freedom. >> really? >> freedom. i support freedom. >> i support we don't have a substitute in our national food chain. >> but we do. >> so the choice is, do we allow those substances to be out there so we can -- because the bottom line is, i don't think people --

>> cigarettes -- >> if we -- we are a civilized society. >> what about alcohol? should we ban alcohol? >> by the way, alcohol -- >> kills a lot of people. >> but from cars. alcohol used properly -- cigarettes even not abused are -- >> good for you even in small doses. >> an airplane can kill someone. >> when we have to lose weight, it's that -- >> moderate cigarettes, it's very dangerous also. it's not about three packs. >> it helps you lose weight. >> do you think addictive substances should be controlled or banned? me too. >> did you ever smoke? >> i used to smoke. >> wasn't it great? >> i remember my dad smoked when i was 3 years old, i love ed th

smoke in the car, the menthol. i've never smoked myself, but i was thinking about taking it up. 100 years from now people will look back and think, it's amazing we ever let people do that. >> if you think about how bizarre it is. we have a product on the package that it says this will kill you. and by the way, here's a promotion for you. it's insanity. >> you could say the same thing about heroin. >> you know what? seriously. >> no. no. >> you've got a problem with heroin now? >> leave it to legal. >> i think you're right about that. >> let's get pete williams. we'll ask him about that. >> let me help us get out of this situation. turn to politico playbook. jim? >> how you doing? >> we're doing okay, jim. >> seriously. >> let's talk about mitt romney instead of cigarettes. he spoke at a town hall meeting you showed a little bit yesterday in miami. sticking by that claim he made a few weeks ago and got a little

heat for it, that's, corporations are people. >> i was in iowa the other day and someone said why don't you raise taxes on corporations? and i said because corporations are people. look, concrete doesn't pay taxes. carpet doesn't pay taxes, people pay taxes. raising taxes on corporations is raising taxes on people. the employees, the owners, the customers. we don't want to raise taxes. >> jim, he's sticking with that line. >> rule number one in politics, when you say something goofy, don't keep saying it over and over. even if it's true. i get what his point is, and i think everyone understands what a corporation is and it's shareholders and employs people. it's just a clunky phrase and it's one that democrats pounced on. when his own staff realized he shouldn't be using it. >> why is he doing it, man? >> i think part of it is he was trying to defend what he knows was a clunky statement in the first place and thinks maybe he's i knono enochlating himsel

democratic attacks if he does it more than once. again, it doesn't convey what he's trying to convey in the first place. it's clunky and not letting people know what he's trying to say which, is listen, i don't want any taxes to be raised on any people. that resinates with the republican base and independents. >> utilities are people, by the way. concrete is not a person. >> let me ask you real quick, jim, about tonight. the debate in orlando. does mitt romney make this about rick perry and social security? >> i think that mitt romney's going to want to go on the attack as much as he can with rick perry. the romney camp feels great in the debate setting against perry. they think they saw real weaknesses in the past two performances and want to go up against him on social security, immigration, his record in texas. they think if they can get him off of his comfort zone, those

issues, he starts to look awkward and doesn't have command of the issues. look for him to go after it. that said, i don't know if you saw the interview last night with perry on one of your competitors' shows. i think it was on fox last night. he actually handled a lot of those questions -- it wasn't tough questioning, but handled those topics pretty well. and it shows he's a smart politician that can with practice time -- >> he handled -- he answered the questions well? >> can you believe that? >> no, i can't. >> that's amazing. >> can you believe that? >> you were asking earlier, how do you handle that social security question? and it really isn't that complicated if he stays disciplined on it. if he tries to say i'ick. you've got somethingpotico abou

bromance between rick perry and russell crow? >> the man's man vote. they've been mutual admirers since 2003. rick perry went to his wedding. >> what? >> went to his wedding. >> wait, rick perry went to whose wedding? >> russell crow. so he's a gladiator. the question is, does he have a beautiful mind? >> oh, god. please go away. >> you're better than that. >> you made me talk about it. >> go back. >> jim, thank you. so it goes apparently russell crow wanted to record an album in austin coming out of australia, and rick perry helped him get the permit, and they went to each other's wedding. >> he's so funny. he says you're a good bloke. we're going to speak with dick durbin, we'll be right back.

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don't moan in my ear when

you're talking about mika's pictures at fenway. let's get a shot of t.j. hey, t.j., is your wife up at 6:37 in the morning watching you? >> no, she's sleeping, but that's a nice picture. >> okay. >> creepy. it's a little early. like stop it, t.j. what's wrong with you? i'm embarrassed. go to willie. disgusting. you know, t.j. -- >> i'm tired. >> yankees looking to clinch another division title. >> let's go yankees. double header against the rays and effectively saving the season of their beloved boston. >> i love the red sox. >> they won the first game yesterday afternoon, and the night capped tied inning, joe gerardi going with pasada,

singles into right field. >> jorge, my main man! >> yankees win 4-2, clinch their 17th division title passing the braves for the most. it's the yankees 16th playoff burst in the past -- >> remarkable first game. >> yep. >> he hit a home run. >> the yankees really showing what a team's supposed to do. how did my boston red sox do? >> let's check in with them. >> the yankees handing the sox a golden opportunity. >> winning twice in the eighth inning. which the sox two nights ago blew their lead in the eighth inning. what happened last night? >> well, let's check in. let's go to fenway where the red sox were playing the lowly baltimore -- >> one of the worst teams in baseball. >> josh beckett into the seventh inning, it's reynolds again off beckett. a two-run home run. red sox lose again to baltimore,

6-4. boston has gone 5-16 in the month of september. >> 5-16. >> stunning. >> shocked. >> donny pointed this out, the angels won last night in toronto, so they are now 2 1/2 games back along with the rays. six days left in the season. the red sox, again, come to yankee stadium three games starting tomorrow night. >> well, barnicle actually is very angry right now. and he says the sox don't deserve to be in the playoffs. he like a lot of sox fans are stunned that we find ourselves here in september. the one of the worst pitching staff. it is staggering because this, the lineup, one of the best hitting lineups in baseball. it's an exciting change. >> baseball's pitching. >> it's bizarre, willie, because we've been excited all year about how great the sox have been. they've been a fun team. e

elsbury having a remarkable year. gonzalez, one of the best hitters in baseball. and it a all comes down to pitching. their pitching has been blown to pieces. >> and they've done all that office without carl crawford. >> for some reason -- for some reason crawford is more like a golfer. swinging at pitches in the dirt. from april through september, it's inexplicable. a horrible swing. he's not seeing the ball. it's stunning what -- >> by the way, none of this matters because in a short series, nobody is beating the phillies. >> barnicle, did barnicle call you up, alex, or e-mail you this? >> barnicle doesn't matter because at the end of the day it'll be the tigers against the rangers in the alcf. i'm not sure. i saw the yankees play yesterday, they're sprinting at the right time. >> nova -- >> without him, they've got one pitcher. >> now you've got the sox and the yankees for an incredible series for the yankees, i mean

for the sox, doesn't matter for the yankees. >> sox got to have it. the national league wild card, the braves lost the game last night. and they're quietly having a meltdown of their own. the cardinals won, only a game and a half behind atlanta. >> the two teams followed my whole life. >> a fun last week of the season. >> are you a rangers fan? >> yeah. >> they're looking good. mika's must-read opinion page up next. labored breathing ]

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turns out he's the president of mongolia. turns out there is a president of mongolia, and it's him, and i even found a video about the guy courtesy of the biography channel. >> the president of mongolia. he co-drafted mongolia's new constitution and is an active voice for environmental protection. he has been the prime minister of mongolia twice and a member of parliament four times. he and his wife have five children. and he loves to high five. >> wow. >> he's really good. >> he's really come into his own. no dou no doubt about it. >> i understand what that's like. >> he didn't say anything creepy about the president of mongolia. >> i'm going to read your must

read. in the daily beast you call president obama's deficit plan neither bold nor courageous writing this, republicans would be best served by supporting the buffett rule or some other plan to equalize the differential between taxes and earned income and investment income. republicans can then move on to other, bigger, more important fights on true tax and entitlement reforms and on regaining the white house in 2012. is anyone doing that at this point? coming close? with the potential? >> no. and what i think is the one full employment sector that we saw last week was president obama's pollsters. they're totally employed and working overtime because that was a purely political plan and a good one politically. >> politically. >> politically speaking it's brilliant, but from a policy perspective, it's awful. it's designed to create more gridlock. republicans are never going to sign on. and i'm just disappointed that the president hasn't taken a

bolder step in tackling entitlement reform. >> why hasn't he? >> because he sees this as a political play. he thinks the republicans won't do it and he can run against the republicans as a do-nothing congress as truman did. and that does put the republicans in a bad place. that's why we ought to go ahead and pass the plan in some form and move on to the bigger issues. and the bigger issues are the ones that will affect jobs and the economy. it's going to be tax reform, entitlement reform. that's what matters. >> we heard the same from chuck todd, another political analyst. they said there's no way it's going to pass. just a political document. do you agree with that? >> yes, and a smart one. and by the way, sometimes presidents -- it's smart for them to do political things. it's that simple. so i don't even hold that against him that it's a smart political -- and to your point, mark, if republicans wanted to make a smart political move, they'd pass it. >> pass it and move on. take it off their board. take it off their board.

>> so the candidate from hope and change has become a politician, maybe he always was just like everybody else in washington. but what's so disturbing is neither side is being responsible about social security. and medicare, medicaid, these wars we continue to fight. nobody is giving voice to the big issues that are on the table. >> and that's why trust in government has melted down. the public doesn't trust -- that consumer confidence is the lowest it's been since 1952, the fourth lowest it's been. >> you don't think the president's shocked he found himself in this position? do you think he ever imagined it would come to this in grant park in november of -- >> no, neither did george w. bush, it's tough job being leader of the free world. >> yeah, george w. bush thought he was going to be a uniter not a divider. >> he and obama campaigned on

the same message about changing the tone in washington and both hit the brick wall. >> is it a sad possibility that the make-up of this country now, the demographic of this country, we will never -- it is almost a mathematical certainty we can never have a popular president again? >> yeah. >> some of these problems are -- >> i totally disagree with that. i disagree with that. it starts at the top, starts with leadership. and i don't care if it's a republican president or a democratic president, don't tell me that an fdr or a ronald reagan couldn't have a positive impact and grab at least 55% to 60% of americans. >> with the republican congress -- saying about his taxes? >> they would be following. because guess what happens when you have a leader? you've got people in congress who follow. it's that simple. it is that simple. >> do you believe in the republican-led congress. do you believe that if barack obama had a different set of

leadership traits, that we could reinvent him and say do it this way and this way, do you think that boehner and his friends would be acting differently? >> if president obama adopted his own fiscal commission recommendations, gone really bold, more than a year ago, i think we would have a different conversation. >> again -- you've been bringing this up, and other people bring this up. that, oh, well, these big, bad republicans are going to stop everything. that's not the case. he wasn't a strong executive leader back when democrats were in charge. and by the way, the very the very definition of power, political power, is making people do what they don't want to do. >> he did that with health care. and now he's vilified for it. what he did for health care is what a leader would do. unpopular, game-changing -- the election. >> and if you look at the page

of the "new york times" today. >> that is so untrue, like the stimulus program on health care, democrats in congress for a year and a half didn't know what his position was on the public option or on anything else. we would ask him every morning, what do you think of the obama health care plan? what is it? that's not what a traditional leader does in the white house. that's not what fdr did, that's not what reagan did, that's not what clinton did. >> couldn't get health care through. >> i'll guarantee this, though, even this president with these qualities, if he'd had more than a couple of months in the united states senate before starting to plan his presidential run, if he'd been beaten up like hillary in 1993, things would have been different. do you agree? >> willie's news you can't use is next. that's on the front page of the

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we're going to do a little news you can't use. ever seen, mika, those videos where sarah mclaughlin goes for the aspca? she's great. >> i always cry. >> she's good. very good. >> we're not making fun of her, are we? >> no. i'm dead serious about this.

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call now because he wants the money now. >> oh, my gosh. >> the kiss on the head. >> oh, that was -- that guy -- >> pretty good. >> good one. >> dick durbin and our friend katty kay. keep it on "morning joe." ♪ [ mrs. davis ] i want to find a way to break through. to make science as exciting as a video game. i need to reach peter, who's falling behind. and push janet who's 6 chapters ahead. ♪ [ male announcer ] with interactive learning solutions from dell, mrs. davis can make education a little more personal. so every student feels like her only student. dell. the power to do more.

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this is all about harry reid playing politics. and you know, if harry reid wants to play politics, he can go ahead. as i've said earlier, we're about doing the business of the people. we're about making sure that we are prudent shepherds of taxpayer dollars, but getting the disaster relief moneys out. it is only harry reid that is talking about or threatening shutdown. it's not us. >> welcome back to "morning joe." welcome back mark mckinen, joining the table is the newly named leader anchor to bbc world news america katty kay. >> that is awesome! i wish i could do that. >> katty's are clean and pressed. >> oh. does that count? >> great to have you. >> great to see you.

a lot going on. fears of a government shutdown are looming once again. did you all hear? yeah, as a critical funding bill suffered a surprising defeat in the house, the measure, which would fund the government through mid november drew backlash from both sides of the aisle. 182 democrats joined 48 republicans in voting against the legislation. house minority leader nancy pelosi issued a statement that read in part the projection of this bill that destroys jobs was bipartisan. the house should bring to the floor a clean cr and the bipartisan relief package already passed by the senate. some house democrats felt the bill did not provide enough aid for disaster victims while some of their republican counterparts wanted deeper spending cuts. eric cantor blamed harry reid for -- >> it's just such a mess. donny, it is such a mess on capitol hill. congress' approval rating 12%. >> 13%, going down.

and we're wondering who the 12% are. the president not showing leadership, putting out political bills. i've got to say, americans have always been skeptical about an independent candidate. i just don't think -- mark is right, i think thomas friedman's right, i think the canvas is being set for an independent line. >> we take a guy like mike bloomberg, just as an example. the appeal he would have to both sides. and the non-agenda. and we were talking about this off camera. it is right. people are looking at this thing saying it don't work. it's broken, and it is. >> it's more right than it was in 1992 when ross perot ran. who would be the ideal guy? colin powell, evan bayh, chuck hag hagel, bob kerry?

>> oh, my lord. >> katty kay, i'm moving to canada. >> one of the things that would make this so viable is that the media would be a great accomplice. because they want it to happen. >> so it's almost -- >> like i say -- >> free press off this. >> they will go -- >> but inside the echo chamber and not necessarily -- >> what do you mean? this is a potential party or ticket that people up and down the east coast would find very appealing. that would take a percentage of independents -- >> and then would vote for obama. >> the republican party or the democrats, both parties could be hurt by this. but it is not -- >> this is not -- >> i can see america voting for an independent candidate. the blocks are too strong. >> if bases aren't solid, the republican, democratic party have historically low support like 20%, people by a margin of 50% or more want an independent

ticket. they'd like a unity ticket, which an organization called americans elect right now is doing -- they've had half the signatures that they need to be on 50 states, and they're going to be on the ballot in all 50 states come next may. >> the amount of organization it takes, the amount of money, the amount of -- >> also, the organization is a myth. that's old school. >> i want to talk about the emotion. >> you need some organization in place. >> that's only if you're running for primaries. there won't be a primary. >> if you're going back to perot, do people want outside of the system? i think it was scary to them. i think outside -- i think independent is not scary. i think it would be very chic for lack of a better word. >> i combine independent and bipartisan, a unity ticket. then you've got something. >> do you really have enough people who fundamentally say i'm prepared to leave the democratic party, i'm prepared to leave the republican party after voting

that way all my life in order to go for somebody in the middle. >> in a heartbeat. >> so you -- i think it's a reflex to say we can't do it because we've never done it before. we haven't done it before because it takes millions and millions of dollars to do the ballot access. somebody else is doing that so anybody can run. and any delegate can nominate anybody they want to run. it's under the radar screen right now, but it's going to be on the radar screen -- >> the advantage they have -- the advantage -- >> it can be anybody. i just named four or five. >> they don't have to play to anybody -- we are 5% right of center. your views, a candidate was able to say things like joe scarborough would be an incredibly appealing candidate. >> thomas friedman says that, i don't. >> what you stand for is exactly what this country wants. >> and let me tell you what, it would be an asterisk at the end of the night. i remember back in 2009 when

everybody was saying americans were socialists. you had great observation. saying americans would be terrible socialists. you define yourself whether you're a waiter in new york city or whether you're running the largest company. you define yourself by work. i thought it was a brilliant observation from the outside. i want to ask you now as somebody living here and has lived here a long time, but still has an observation from the outside when necessary. what about our political system? does america's political system seem to be more broken than at any time you could recall? >> you know, i actually think the systems are in place to get the big things fixed in this country. i mean, it's not like europe where the political mechanisms don't exist. europe is facing massive problems and the mechanisms aren't there to address the problem. here you have the mechanisms to address the problems, the politicians are standing in the way of getting things done. i mean, it's not irreparable

what you have here, you just need people who are willing to put the country ahead of their reelections. you need people to think in the best interest of the country. >> is the president doing that? >> i don't think either party is doing that right now. i don't think what the president announced in terms of a deficit reduction bill is doing that because it's something he knows is not going to pass. it was a bid to get reelected in 2012. and if you really want to address america's deficit, you want to address energy, immigration, you'll have to make the compromises that both sides in the middle can meet on. and nobody's doing that. it's always hyperbole to say this is a critical election. we are facing the prospect of a second recession. i mean, the very real prospect for a second recession and if europe goes belly up, the bets are off anyway because it's something the white house realizes they can't do.

>> if china slows down and china may very well slow down, we have a lot of time bombs ticking out there. >> and some of it america can't control, but some of it can control. and the politicians aren't doing anything. you have this group coming to congress who also aren't willing to compromise. there's going to have to be tax raising as part of this deal, it's going to have to happen. why not do what needs to be done? you almost wonder -- what i love about this country is there is a sense of optimism that things are possible. >> do you still sense that? because i've always heard that from people coming here from europe saying you americans are so optimistic. do you still sense that? are we losing some of that? >> i almost think the optimism is shifting into a sense of denial. that i look at the political leadership in this country and you almost wonder whether they are in denial about what is happening around the world and

what could happen in this country if they don't get their act together and do the kinds of things that need to be done. >> there's gallup polls out today suggesting americans are less optimistic than they have been in some time. >> an interesting number, joe, i heard yesterday, which really is depressing. is that, you know, the right track, long track number we look at, do you think the country is getting better or worse or on the right track or wrong track? it's been a eight years people feel -- don't feel optimistic about the future. >> i may be overly optimistic here. >> yeah. >> and maybe i've got my head in the sand, as well. but when i hear people talking about how we're having a massive shift and that america is moving into a constant state of decline. i go back and i've said this before, i remember my middle school teachers in 1974 and '75 after watergate and vietnam saying the same thing. i remember my high school teachers in '79 and '80.

telling us the same thing the american empire is going the way of the roman empire. and then the 1980s. five years later, everybody was writing magazine articles, wringing their hands about the american monolith. and are we too powerful? are we exerting our force across the globe too much? are we too massive? this happens repeatedly in the united states of america. i think the big difference now is -- and i'll be blunt, i think political leaders in washington, d.c. are just not what they used to be. >> the leadership issues. >> i remember the '70s too. >> that's on all sides. >> i remember my teachers being angry about watergate. it wasn't oh, it's over, there was an optimistic anger. we've got to change this. right now we've settled into, this is the way it is. >> you remember '79 and '80?

do you remember how bad it was? and do you remember how horrific it was the morning after that terrible, terrible morning dessert onde desert one? do you remember every night watching ted koppel and seeing that iranians were basically thumbing their nose at us, interest rates at 20%, 21%, it did -- i guarantee ya, it wasn't any better then than it is now. >> you were up against opposing superpowers, the soviet union effectively broke, nower up against china, which is not broke, and investing in infrastructure -- you didn't know it, but that was the reality. >> and you don't know that china right now is riding on a massive bubble. >> it's possible. but they are investing in education, investing in infrastructure, investing in their population. >> the western formula. >> we say that every morning. we need to do that here. >> and that's what i'm saying

about the state of denial, that there is not this recognition that there are other countries out there that are doing these things. china has a 40-year plan for medical innovation. and you know they're going to do it. >> i will guarantee you it's not in the middle of the washington, d.c. bureaucracy. >> they're not going the things that need to be done to stay competitive. >> the other thing that's interesting, for the first time they're saying it's obama's economy. >> a slight majority. >> for the first time the majority says no. >> this is his mess. >> looking forward 60%. voters think it's going to be worse. >> that's up from like 35%. >> 35%. >> but i think the optimism still is in this country. and i look at, you know, issues like class warfare. that's another one of these things that surprises me when people talk about the idea of class warfare in america. fundamentally americans still feel good about other people getting ahead.

success is still embracing this country. now, there is actually less social mobility in america than there is in europe. and this is a problem that the country's not really addressing. but people believe they can get ahead too. i always remember going to interview a steel worker up in iowa who was campaigning for john edwards just after the $400 haircut incident, you remember that? and i said, don't you feel bad you're on the shop floor, you're a guy struggling to pay his health care bills and your candidate's had a $400 haircut. and he said no, that's the american way and one day -- >> that's the dream, the $400 haircut. >> well, no, i don't think people are that happy. >> he didn't resent somebody else. >> americans have never -- have just never been that way. my parents weren't that way. i told the story of us driving past huge houses. and my mom just pointing at the huge houses while my dad was unemployed for a year and a half saying work hard in school, you

can live there, do whatever you want to do. and guess what? that steel worker working that shift on the floor is saying -- how could your son get ahead if you're here right now? he could easily say, well, look at barack obama's father. where was barack obama's father at this stage? americans do -- you know why americans believe that's possible? because it is possible. it is still possible. >> i still think that's alarming. >> and that's something we need to fix. there's no doubt about it. you say people aren't optimistic. >> there might be growing resentment. >> there are people working two or three jobs. there are people working two or three jobs now. and they're doing it right. not for themselves because they believe when they work hard enough and their kids work hard enough in school, they can go to a good college, and they can make something of their lives. and they're still right. in a way, in america, you can still do that in a way you can't do that anywhere else. >> just add to that, the huge section of people who aren't

working and their houses are a about to go under and they are sitting there feeling helpless and seeing only bleak prospects. i think there's a growing resentment that will perhaps overcome whatever optimism we're all talking about. >> by the way, though, it's not a theory with me. my dad was out of work -- it's not easy for me to say, my dad was out of work for a year and a half. and he never gave up hope and he kept working every day to find a job. >> i'm not -- >> and they kept poking their fingers in our chest to go to school, study hard,rfz play har they believed, and so we believed. so we got ahead. there are still millions and millions of people like that. and parents out there still believe their kids can have a better life. i know the poll numbers are upside down. they are. but that doesn't have to be forever.

k katty, am i overly optimistic? >> i'm concerned about the growing income -- a shift in this american sense that you can get ahead. because when people start realizing that the top 1% of the population are now taking home 25% of the gdp and only 20 years ago it was 8%, they're going to start wondering, can i get ahead? can i get a slice of that pie because that pie available for me is shrinking so fast. >> and katty, by the way, in the piece we were talking about in politico, that was my concern at the end of the piece. can we rectify if we have a president and congress that will pass tax reform instead of both posing for their respective bases, which is where we are? up next, senate majority whip dick durbin will be here weighing on the looming

government shutdown. and later -- joe and i are going to sit down with former president bill clinton live at the clinton global initiative. we'll have to run over there during the commercial break. you're watching "morning joe." >> can i wear jeans to that? >> yeah. [ hayden ] what if there was a makeup that didn't just hide your breakouts... but actually made them go away. neutrogena skin clearing makeup has our proven blemish fighting formula so it clears your breakouts. now that's beautiful. neutrogena®. ♪ [ dog barks ] [ birds chirping ] ♪ [ mechanical breathing ] [ engine turns over ] ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new volkswagen passat.

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so this jobs bill addresses the terrible toll that unemployment inflicts on people, it helps long-term unemployed keep their skills sharp. this jobs bill cuts taxes for every working family and every small business owner in america to boost demand and to boost hiring. and if you're a small business owner who hires a new worker or raises workers' wages, you get an extra tax cut. so this bill answers the urgent need to create jobs right away. >> with us from the capitol right now is democratic senator

from illinois and senate maj majority whip senator dick durbin. always great to have you with us. around the table this week, everybody suggested that the president's bill has no chance of passing congress, that it's just a political document. what would you say to those skeptics? >> i'd say they're wrong and i hope they're wrong. because the notion that we do nothing and this economy gets well is very naive. we've got to work together. the president has reached out to the republicans. they have no plan. did you see the letter they sent to the federal reserve yesterday saying do nothing about the economy? don't lower the interest rates. it's the same approach they're taking when it comes to action on capitol hill. they want to do nothing and spend most of their time saying we've got to protect the wealthiest in america. that is not the approach. >> senator durbin, you showed courage when you were on the fiscal commission. you were a democrat -- and mark, he went out on the line. >> yeah.

>> signing on to things he did not believe in personally. but, this senator showed a lot of courage. >> he did. in the no labels community really appreciated what he was doing on the commission and since then on these issues. senator, i want to ask you. what happens if we don't come to an agreement before the super committee -- if the super committee doesn't come to an agreement, which i think most people think is the case. is the trigger going to happen? or are there other alternatives if the trigger hits? >> it's a stark situation, but i have a lot of faith that the super committee will come around. last night there was a meeting of democratic and republican senators, business leaders, community leaders talking about how we can move this forward. working with the super committee, finding a way to reduce the deficit, not by 1.2 trillion, but a grand total of over $4 trillion over ten years. do it in a thoughtful, sensible, balanced way. that's what i voted for on

simpson/bowles. i think we can do this. and the bipartisan spirit is there in the senate to get it done. >> senator donny deustch, tell me why you think this has any chance of getting passed through the republican congress? >> well, i can't predict what the republicans can do. we are now watching the tea party shutdown movie for the third time this year. the ending isn't surprising, isn't even interesting anymore. they can't get together the basic republican votes on the house side to even pass the continuing resolution they agreed to just a few weeks ago, a let alone disaster aid for a country that's been hard hit by a lot of disasters. i can't tell you if the republicans will come around in that respect. but i will tell you this, there are republican senators who are courageous, speaking up, saying we should do this on a bipartisan basis. when we had a conference on this last week, i said to the press,

what's wrong with this picture? we'd have 26 democratic and republican senators standing together saying we can work out a reasonable agreement to deal with the deficit just runs counter to the image of most people have in this town. >> you've said it there, we've watched this movie before. you can forgive international financial markets for looking at the american political system at the moment and saying, well, a year before presidential election, we have to assume that america can't do anything. and there'll be pain. there'll be a price to pay for all of this inaction in the country in the face of huge challenges, won't there? >> you're exactly right. and my feeling was when both parties went home, members of the house and senate over august actually spoke to the people back home who are clearly angry with us as they should be because of all of these obstacles and obstructionism. i thought we came back with more resolve. i thought the last thing in the world the republicans would want to do is see another shutdown. last night eric cantor got on the news and said it's all president obama's fault.

come on, give me a break. this is an agreement which we reached, democrats republicans with the president to move forward and fund this government, which is the first thing we need to do. the second thing we need to do is focus on turning this economy around and creating jobs. we can do that. but we need to have some breakthrough on the republican side, buy-in, certainly in the house of representatives. >> i'm encouraged to hear your note of optimism about the super committee. but what in your opinion has changed in the environment or politically that will make that happen when it hasn't been able to happen before? what's different? >> standard & poors. to see a downturn in the rating of the united states for the first time in history to watch us as we're sitting there on the edge of the precipice with the debt ceiling. the threat of default on american economy for the first time in our history. you know, this ought to be a sobering experience for all of us involved in public life. and i think many members, certainly, when i go back to the

group in the senate, we have a bipartisan group that gets it. that understands we can move this america forward if we can agree on some basics. republicans have to do the same, but if we come together and agree and work on this in a reasonable way, the american people stand behind us. >> what about the president, senator durbin? his close friends have been telling me for three years now that at some point, the president was going to make the courageous move on entitlement programs. i will say it again. you did something that very few people in washington are doing right now. you made that courageous move on the debt commission. you and i disagree probably on 90 -- maybe 50%, 60% of issues economically, and yet when i see you doing that, i say there's a leader, we need more republicans and democrats like that. and we need a president like that. when does a president show the courage to lead on entitlements?

specifically so republicans can be forced to lead on tax reform? >> joe, i can tell you that the president, i believe, has reached out three different occasions, very specifically. the vice president's group, bringing together bipartisan leadership and talking about putting everything on the table. two specific overtures to speaker boehner saying we can have a specific deal, one that will turn the economy around and put people back to work. both times cantor walked away from the meeting, john boehner walked away twice from the president in the negotiations. when we came out with the gang six proposal, the president held a press conference saying i can buy these principles. this president is onboard if we can come up with a bipartisan plan. and you hit the nail on the head. we have to be willing to say on the republican side that they will put revenue on the table, we have to put meaningful entitlement reform on the table that still protects social security and medicare.

i think we can do that. >> all right. we greatly appreciate it. always great talking to you. dick durbin. and coming up next, we're going to sit down with terry mcauliffe. and we're hoping he's sober. it's almost 8:00 in the morning, so he may not be. coming up next, a new book that mika's excited about. jobs war between debate and governor chris crihristie coulde leading that charge. more "morning joe" when we return. ♪ ♪ ♪ when your chain of supply ♪ goes from here to shanghai, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ chips from here, boards from there ♪ ♪ track it all through the air, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ clearing customs like that

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hey, welcome back to "morning joe." states a across the country increasing the competition to create jobs. offering incentives and credits for companies relocating and expanding in their backyard. the chairman and ceo of the gallup polling organization jim clifton writes about that in his new book called "the coming jobs war." and jim joins us now and we all want to hijack this conversation and talk about polls, but we're going to be focused, first, on your book. but we have so many questions we want to ask you. let's start about the coming jobs war, it is fascinating, the

incentives that states are starting to lay out there. to try to draw companies, not only from other states, but other countries. tell us about the book. >> well, we had a lot of -- gallup has that lot of clients and friends that are getting concerned about where the future of america is going with our gdp stalled at 15 trillion. and the talk always ends up with china over the next 30 years if you average what all economists say, we're going to be at about $30 trillion, they'll be at $60 trillion and $80 trillion. that means we lose leadership of the free world and comes back to how do you get gdp to grow and all that kind of thing? so we just did the deepest dive we possibly could. we do this nightly tracking here in the united states and also build sample frames from around the world. and we started asking questions about jobs. one of the most interesting things as long as i've been in gallup that we noticed is that dr. gallup had a question about

what's a great american dream? and up until very recently, the great american dream has been to have peace, to have a family, to have independence, be able to pray to the god they want and all of that type of thing. it's changed. now, the great american dream is to have a good job. that might seem subtle to you, but it's a huge sociological shift. it changes when you get married, it changes your relationship with your family, with your community, joe, i heard you talking about your job being out of a job for 18 months. 18 months is a turning point. things get deadly if you're out of a job too long. but a big discovery in all this research is that your job is now the number one social value. and i don't think too many leaders know that. i'll finish this, but then we start wondering about the world. what's a great global dream? it's the same thing. what the whole world wants is a good job. there's 7 billion people, 5

billion adults, and 3 billion of them tell gallup they want a good job. and a good job is like 30 hours, consistent work, all of that. there's only 1.2 billion jobs to go around. it means we have a huge job shortfall. that's what it's about. >> what is the driver of that? in america? why the change in the definition of the american dream? >> well, i mean -- i think one of the reasons it didn't just start with this last meltdown eight or nine years ago. i don't know exactly why it changed. there was a time when everybody was just a salary man. you watch a yankee baseball game, everybody has the hats and the cigarettes and all that. the job wasn't personal, for some reason that's changed. you are what your job is. >> has it started to change over the last decade? >> i would say about ten years, yeah. >> i'm interested historically. we always talk about this being different than other times.

looking longitude, how bad is it now relative to 1992 when ross perot ran? is it much worse? >> yeah, i think it's a lot worse. where jobs are created are in start-ups. and what i -- what we call shoot-ups. so you have about 6 million small businesses in the united states. and you have about 400,000 that start right now. we need 1 million to be starting. but it's because we're not in the -- probably in the spirit of free enterprise. and so of the 6 million business, you get about 5% of them that shoot up. and that's where you typically find the jobs. but that's depressed right now. and so all of those free enterprising, that's where the jobs are created. they're really down. >> okay, jim. we've had an incredibly optimistic, positive conversation. >> sorry. that's right. >> i want the good news. i want you to tell me what there is in your numbers that makes you feel that there is hope for

the next decade in the country. >> well, i have a lot of hope. i just was in the green room, but i was reading a gallup poll in the front page of "usa today" that made me more miserable. a really good question to ask anybody is do you think that the best part of your life is ahead of you or behind you? you can ask yourself that, your family that, whatever. that's one of the best questions you can ask the whole world. but right now, america -- the united states of america rates that lower than we've ever seen it. there's not much good news there. but for me, i have a lot of -- you know, i was watching tv about 35 years ago and everything was the same as it is right now. japan and germany both left leaning and right leaning economists said they were going to overtake us. and they said that japan's gdp right now would be at 5

trillion, germany's at about 4 trillion, and we'd be at about 3.5 trillion. we've arced at $3.5 trillion. we've been right here before, and we got afraid, and then we made a colossal comeback. >> we were here in the early '70s, the late '70s. i remember also, 1989, 1990, books coming out called "the japan that could say no." saying the united states was so weak, we couldn't make semiconductor chips to do our nuclear missiles without japan. the next year, intel rises up and crushes the japanese supercomputer. so we have been there before. the question is, what's standing in the way? if you look at your polls right now, it looks like a lot of americans are having a growing disconnect, feeling a growing disconnect with washington. and a fascinating poll just out

from gallup, comparison between this democratic president and the last democratic president. how -- what are you finding in those trends with barack obama versus the clintons? >> well, i'm not sure if you mean that poll, i just saw a gallup poll this morning about the comparison, who was the better president. >> yeah, exactly. >> i don't know what to say about that. people, i think i saw clinton was at 50% and obama was at 20% or 30%. i'm not sure i understand your question. >> that's okay. you're in good company. i have a

and there's enormous variation right now in the united states by city. do you see? so if you look at an average number, it looks bad. but if you take two real easy cities to look at are detroit and san francisco. detroit just 40 years ago was like the richest city in the world, had the highest per capita, all kinds of arts, not just motown. >> unbelievable town. it's a disaster. you know san francisco and the silicon valley and all that kind of continues to save america. but look at the variation there. something happens with leadership where you get a different energy. we were talking about albany, new york, and austin, texas. that's kind of the same thing. no ports, no reason, they're both capital cities, albany's a bust, and austin keeps growing

and growing and growing. >> and you're an austin guy it's not hard to figure out. >> low regulation, low taxes. >> better leadership. you know, there's shadow governments in those towns. they're strong city mothers and fathers. we tried to count how many in the world, there's a about 10,000 of them. i think if those 10,000 people went to work on their cities, you could turn this around. >> it'd make a big difference. thank you so much for being with us. jim, we hope you come back. >> it's great to be here. thanks for having an interest in gallup. >> love your website. so the book is "the coming jobs war." make sure to pick it up and read it. we will be right back with more "morning joe." bill clinton straight ahead. so, how was school today ?

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now for your first look at the new issue of "time" magazine. on this week's cover "why mom liked you best." the signs of favoritism. why parents have a favorite child even if they do not want to admit it. okay. let's go around rapid-fire. which is your favorite child by name, please? >> it's interesting, you love them the same, but you relate to them differently. you may be closer with one because you have more in common. the love is equal. and i give each child what they need. if i'm giving a child more attention, i think they need more. >> please give full name.

>> so they can charge the therapist -- >> do you believe that? >> i don't believe it. >> really? >> there are times when one child annoys you more than another or is going through a difficult time or one child pleases you more than another, but that whole sophie's choice, you can't do it, you can't make that decision. >> you can have children who are so completely different. as different as night and day, but you love them equally. and it's -- it's just a parental instinct, i think. >> i agree. i've got two kids, the jury's still out on both of them. still ahead, joe and mika will be at the clinton global initiative to interview former president bill clinton live. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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welg come back to "morning joe." joining us now, rapper and actor common who can add author to his new resume thanks to his new book, "one day it'll all make sense." great to meet you. >> fwragreat to meet you, willi >> we're talking about putting your life out there on the page for the american public. you said you had a moment, wait a minute, what have i just done? >> after talking about the book a little bit, i said, man, i said everything. i said a lot of things and

exposed myself in a way that i never have. it just made me think, did i really want to do this? you become a little bit doubtful and fearful at times about it. but i caught a good response from some people, and they said the book opened them up and motivated them. so it made me feel better. >> why did you do it in the first place? when somebody comes to you and says, common, we want you to put down in print the story of your life, did that seem like a good idea to you at first? >> no. because i felt like, man, i'm still a young man. and i have a lot more years and things to learn. but then after further with the conversation going on, i realized that there's some things in the first years of my life, first chapters of my life, that i can recall that may, like, inspire somebody or this story, they may relate to it and it can motivate them. and i felt like it was eventually something that would really be helpful to me, too.

because i got to delve into things that i never even thought about recently. it was kind of therapeutic in its own way. along with that, the biggest purpose was to inspire people. also to let them enjoy something. >> talk about that trip you've been on. coming from the south side of chicago, there's a thread through this book which is your mother who raised you. >> yes. yeah, my mother is -- she's just one of the coolest people ever. she's definitely my best friend in the world. she's been a guide for me. she taught me about love and life and respect and discipline. so she just was -- you know, she was educated, and she really instilled a lot of things in me. i took those things and tried to live with it and grow with it. at the same token i developed my own perspective on life. now she says i'm able to give her information and teach her also. it's a beautiful thing. the same way i have a 14-year-old daughter now, and i teach her. but she also teaches me.

so it's reciprocated. >> you're known as a socially conscious wrapper. almost every time we hear your name we have to say that first. do you like that label? what does it mean to you? >> initially, i didn't like the label. but i do like it now. what it means to me is that i'm aware and that i'm aware of what's going on in the community. what's going on with people. and i talk about those issues. whether it deals with love, whether it deals with spirituali spirituality, whether it deals with an incident that may have happened in a neighborhood where some children may have gotten hurt, killed, i bring those issues up. and when i look at conscious artists throughout the years, those are artists like bob marley and bob dylan, stevie wonder. if i could be labeled a socially conscious artist that's the category i would want to be in. >> it must have been strange for you to find yourself a few months ago in the center of a manufactured, we should point out, controversy about you going

to the white house for a night of poetry. when did you first hear about it and what was your reaction? >> i got a text from a friend. don't worry about what they're saying about you. i was working on a new film, new tv show i'm doing calmed "hell on wheels." it's an amc show. we were working. it was kind of strange because i was working on the show and i was dealing with -- my character is a free slave. it was like, when i started getting these texts, i was sitting there like what's going on? i heard all the commotion about me going to the white house. i kind of laughed at first. eventually i was feeling like how could they be saying this about me? they must really don't know who i am as an artist. it saddened me to see they would take just some words of mine and say this is a hip-hop artist and this is what he does, this is what he's about when i have a whole body of work and spectrum and things i've done from -- whether it's my foundation or just what i strive to be as a human being.

i just took it as they just don't know me. they're misinformed. they've got to get better research. >> were you surprised to learn sarah palin's not a big fan of yours? >> i was hoping she was. maybe she will become a fan. maybe she could get the book and see something different, you know, about me or maybe hear the music, some way i'm going to win sarah palin over. >> good luck with that. >> a question that pollsters ask people, do you think america is on the right track or the wrong track and why? >> i think america's on the right track. i really believe we're on the right track because the american people want better. we want better for ourselves, and we're really trying to find out which way that is. the president is an incredible leader in that he just inspires many people to come together. i know a lot of people complain about political things that are going on. our president that's in there right now, barack obama, is bigger than politics in a way

that he's bringing people together on a human level. once we get over some of the political agendas that we have, i think america and we can see that we want to move forward and we will be on the right track. so i tend to look at it like we are on the right track. >> before i let you go, i have to ask you. we got common sitting here. best rapper alive right now. what's the answer? >> me. >> okay. outside of common. >> outside of me, you know, i would say naz. >> naz over jay. >> it's tough. jay is one of the greatest many can argue. naz is so poetic with it. i feel like his lyrics, you can write them down on paper, they will last for time. it would be like literature that we read. >> common, thanks so much for coming. it's great to see all your success. you've got another one here. the book is called "one day it'll all make sense." >> great title. >> more "morning joe" in a moment. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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sun life financial. america's commitment to israel's security is unshakable. our friendship with israel is deep and enduring. and so we believe that any lasting peace must acknowledge the very real security concerns that israel faces every single day. israel deserves recognition. it deserves normal relations t with its neighbors.

and friends of the palestinians do them no favors by ignoring this truth. just as friends of israel -- >> i think that standing your ground, taking this position of principle, which is also, i think, the right position to achieve peace, i think this is -- this is a badge of honor. and i want to thank you for wearing that badge of honor and also to express my hope that others will follow your example, mr. president. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe" as we take a live look at new york city. back with us onset, we have mark mckinnon and donny deutsche. >> donny deutsche, a good day yesterday for barack obama. >> yes. >> it started off i thought very badly with people sniping. but i thought he did very well. i thought netanyahu was a little condescending. i don't need anybody from any country telling the president of

the united states nice job. you know what, bebe, keep it to yourself. and this is a pro-israel guy. i thought the president did a pretty darn good job in a difficult situation. >> i actually think in the last couple weeks he's found some mojo between this and the jobs bill. he's carrying a different weight. i like what i saw. >> i am, too. what do you think of the president yesterday? >> good. i mean, it was the right tone and the right approach. i think you've got -- french doing an end run. >> the french doing an end run? this is a shock. >> i'm just confused, though. a few months ago -- i'm not the smartest guy around. >> whatever. >> contrast this with, okay, let's go back to the pre-1967 borders. >> right. >> help me with that. i wouldn't think the same thing would be coming out of this guy's mouth. so help me out. what happened? how did he find god? i don't mean the israeli god.

i mean god in general. >> obama? >> yeah. >> obama and his people would tell you his speech is identical to what george w. bush said and i don't think it really was. diplomatically it may have been the same as we said at the time. politically, though, there are a lot of people in the jewish community that were very concerned, very upset. i've got to say, from new york to broward county there are a lot of jewish democratic voters that you've been talking about for a long time that actually liked seeing bebe tell the president good job. >> president obama made his case eloquently yesterday. but it doesn't change the fact that tomorrow is a very awkward vote. >> very. >> they're going to have to veto statehood for palestine despite the fact his belief is there should be a two-state solution. >> straight to the news because that's what we do on this show. boom, hello, welcome to "morning joe." let's just dive in the news. no common teaentary.

yesterday was critical of a couple of republican candidates. who came out yesterday and were critical of the president. i speak specifically of rick perry. romney also put out an up helpful press release. rick perry holds a press conference in new york city und undermining the president of the united states with foreign leaders at one of the most crucial times in recent u.s. diplomatic history. i was deeply offended by that. >> yeah. >> and i can't imagine what people like rick perry would have been saying if democrats had done that to george w. bush. under similar circumstances. >> really dangerous, joe. you know, you never heard george bush in the entire presidency frame the relationship with israel in religious terms. never as a christian. never once framed it that way. doing so really creates a dangerous paradigm and, in fact,

enhances the arguments that the terrorists are making against us. >> that it's a crusade. >> exactly. it looked patently political. looked like he's just patently going out for the jewish vote. now i think it's going to blow back on him. >> if you want to be ham fisted about social security, that's one thing. when you come to new york city and do that on national security in the way he did, it just sends a horrific message across the globe. >> shivers. >> the one thing that it validated is the biggest concern about this candidate is just he's a wild card. you just never know where he's going, what he's doing. there's a scare factor. >> i think also chuck todd suggested yesterday, it's a campaign that's young and also flying by the seat of their pants. so they bumbled into this thing and created what could be an international incident. >> we have perry and romney taking each other on on social security coming up in news in just a moment.

first, today is president obama's last chance to persuade the palestinians to abandon their bid for full u.n. membership and to avoid a potentially embarrassing vote in the security council tomorrow. it comes as palestinian president mahmoud abbas shows no signs of backing down. in an effort to prevent a showdown, president obama and secretary of state hillary clinton met with abbas last night warning him of the united states' plans to veto any security council move to recognize palestinian statehood. abbas is expected to offer his application for membership after addressing the general assembly tomorrow. earlier yesterday while speaking to world leaders at the u.n., president obama called on both palestinians and israelis to get back to negotiations. >> i am convinced that there is no shortcut to tehe end of a conflict that has endured for decades. peace is hard work. peace will not come through statements and resolutions at the united nations.

if it were that easy, it would have been accomplished by now. ultimately, it is the israelis and the palestinians who must live side by side. ultimately, it's the israelis and the palestinians, not us, who must reach agreement on the issues that divide them. >> turning now to the 2012 race, the republican candidates are gearing up for yet another presidential debate tonight in orlando, florida, where the focus will continue to be on front-runners former massachusetts governor mitt romney and texas governor rick perry. if you remember two weeks ago during the nbc/politico debate, perry faced questions about his comments referring to social security as a ponzi scheme. yesterday at a town hall in miami, mitt romney continued to criticize perry's stance that the program should be left to the states, making clear to the audience that he would protect social security. >> an entirely different alternative proposed by governor perry who's also, as you know, running for president.

in his book that came out this year, he stated his view, social security itself is a failure. he said by any measure, social security is a failure. i disagree. i think by the measure of the tens of millions of people who rely on social security, it's a success. i can't see anything which suggests that makes any sense whatsoever to end social security as a federal entitlement and send it back to the states. >> governor perry responded to romney's attacks, calling his comments irresponsible and an age-old democrat trick to scare seniors. last night on fox, perry attempted to compare mitt romney's positions to those of president obama. >> we need to nominate someone who will have a stark, clear difference between the republican nominee and president obama. and i think i am that person who can clearly delineate the differences. we don't need to nominate obama

light. we don't need to nominate someone who's going to blur the lines between president obama and our nominee. when you take a look at what mitt did from the standpoint of romneycare in massachusetts, you're going to have a hard time finding a difference between obamacare and romneycare. that's just the facts. there's no way around it. the facts are the facts. >> and his hair looks perfect. >> what did clinton say about him. >> he's a good looking rascal. >> he's a good looking rascal. >> warren zivon wrote a song about this guy decades ago. what's your take on this social security showdown? >> this ping-pong match between those two. >> one, mitt romney sounds like a democrat attacking rick perry on this issue. on the other hand, he senses a vulnerability. mitt romney has become a very good candidate. very disciplined. the problem with perry, he's telling the truth on social security which i like. the fact -- but the problem is that he hasn't clarified what his position is. and he's had a couple of opportunities.

>> well, he's told the truth about there being a problem with social security. but his answer is returning it to the states or just telling people under 50, you don't get it anymore. >> well, yeah. and he's -- but he's said that in the book, but he hasn't been clear on the campaign what he means by the things that he's said in the book. >> is he playing to the tea party? certain elements of the tea party that would love to hear a candidate say, let's abolish social security? >> no. >> as a federal entitlement? >> i don't think that's what he means at all. i think he thinks it needs to be reformed but he hasn't made that clear. >> do you agree with something i said -- >> he doesn't want to abolish social security and he doesn't want to take it to the states. >> why doesn't he say it? you know why he doesn't say it? because he's playing both sides. or is he really that inarticulate? that he can't say, huh-uh? >> we'll see tonight. >> come on. >> i said something last week you disagree with.

>> which is what? >> that we can continue to focus on this one issue or two or three other issues. i believe people vote on the gushtult of a candidate. >> what did i say yesterday? >> he'll weasel his way out of this. i think there's something about him -- rick perry. >> there's something about this guy republicans like. mitt is lacking teeth even when he's fighting. i still believe the same way they mocked reagan and w. at the beg beginning, he has that stuff. >> attributes are more important than issues. the most important attribute by far is strength. people are looking for strength in a candidate, too. i heard from a "washington post" reporter the other day out in iowa talking to focus group voters, individual tote vovoter.

he was surprised by how many voters would say i'm not sure what rick perry's record is, what he stands for, but i like the fact he's going to take it to obama. he's talk. he's bold. he's brass. >> his chest stuck out like -- i'm being completely serious. that's both what the tea party and the moderate part of the party love. >> he's tapping the energy for sure. >> on the substance of one question if he hasn't already been asked should be asked is, if social security is, quote, unconstitutional, how do you give it back to the states? >> exactly. >> doesn't it remain unconstitutional at the state level? >> it just sounds good. >> i'm still on fuconfused. >> i think romney's got a lot of ammunition here is what i'm saying. >> i think romney should be even more aggressive with this and just nail him down. wait a second, you want to reform a program you said a year ago was unconstitutional? and you didn't say it off the top of your head at the county fair while you were eating a corn dog and listening to the rangers game in your left ear. you sat down, you thought about

it, you wrote it in a book. they edited that book. they sent the book back to you. you read it again. you sent it back to them. it was published. you went on a book tour. you promoted that idea. this is in the core of your fabric, that social security is unconstitutional. and now you want to reform something that's unconstitutional? >> if he did it in that tone, it would be so appealing. at the same time, i think you can poke perry. i think if somebody really went at him in an emotional way like that, not just romney going let me tell you the facts, sir. i think you're going to see the worst of perry at that point. >> no, no. the problem with perry is -- i know this because i've been following him for one debate now. he doesn't have a counterpunch. you can see five minutes into it, and i joke -- >> he's good on offense. >> i joke about his response being huh-uh. that's basically the equivalent.

this is why he's hated debates in texas for a long time. if romney went after him with that he would stare into the camera and say you were doing good, mitt, until you talked about poker. how does he get around the fact that he called it unconstitutional? that he basically said he wanted to return it to the states. >> he needs to explain that. and he hasn't yet. >> he can't, can he? >> well, i think he can at least take a shot at it. and he hasn't. when we come back, we're heading over to the clinton global initiative. we'll be joined by former president bill clinton. also this hour, former dnc chairman terry mcauliffe will join us. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ hayden ] what if there was a makeup

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i have to say that i do envy president clinton because when you're out of washington, turns out that you're just dealing with people who are reasonable all the time. and nobody's looking to score points. nobody's looking to the polls on any particular issue. you're just trying to solve problems. and that's the ethic that people are looking for in washington. >> well, he envies you.

okay. welcome back to "morning joe." we're live now at the clinton global initiative. that's where president barack obama was speaking yesterday. we have former president bill clinton with us now. good morning. good to have you on the show. we made it over here. >> great to see you again. >> thanks. how are you? >> this just keeping growing every year. it's extraordinary. yesterday the president. a remarkable discussion about haiti. this week is a week that so many people across the world look forward to every year. >> it is. it's really -- it's wonderful to see people come together and nobody knows what party you're in, nobody knows anything. people just sit down and talk about these problems, figure out what they should do to solve them. >> and this year it's jobs, jobs, jobs. so many trends across the globe. >> yeah. it's not just america. that's important. there are hundreds of millions of people across the world who are looking for work in places where they used to think they could get it fairly easily. >> i remember in 1992 you were campaigning in new hampshire.

and you were trying to -- to work with people and help people that were caught in between the industrial age and the technological age. and it was a period of profound discontent. that's now happening globally. >> that's right. >> with so many people less secure in their jobs than ever before. what can be done? >> well, first of all, we have to turn some of our problems into opportunities. i mean, if -- you look at some of these -- some of these poor countries. let's just take a lot of the african countries, for example. this famine in the horn of africa. my foundation works in ethiopia. so i've been there. once i was there in growing season. i was stunned there was ever a famine there. they got plenty of topsoil. they're good farmers. they don't have the systems we take for granted in america. so a lot of places you try to take the problem and turn it into opportunities. what you have to do there is

build storage facilities, build a network, build the equivalent of the farm extension service we built back in the '30s. so in some places you just take the problems and make them opportunities. that's what we've done with agriculture in rwanda, for example. we're building out health systems. in wealthy countries, the by and large problems are related to this financial meltdown. you've got to clear the debt quicker. and then there's dozens of things you have to do. every country, every rich country that is in an open economy has to have a source of new jobs every five to eight years and we haven't had one in a while. now it looked like the clean energy jobs were coming, but it's slowed down by the debt. i know there's a lot of controversy over this energy business in washington now, but the truth is if you look at the last eight years, those energy technology jobs in our economy and other places are going twice as fast as regular jobs. they pay 20% to 30% more and they give us a $60 billion trade

surplus every year. that's a real opportunity for us. >> and they're the future. >> yes. >> there's no doubt about it, right? >> no doubt. why? because doing more with less. >> right. >> we're going to have to make room for 8 or 9 billion people on this planet and figure out how to live without burning each other up. look at what the chinese are having to do, trying to figure out whether they can run two huge canals from the yangtse river to the yellow river to keep their cities alive. >> you talk about technology in ethiopia. it's fascinating in poor countries, in developing countries, a lot of times in the ways that you were talking technology is a godsend. yet in rich industrialized countries, in america, we have a lot of people talking about china taking our jobs, india taking our jobs. but it's technology also. we've become so efficient. this is what americans don't understand. you understand it, though. if our factories were only as efficient as they were in 1992

when you became president, tens of millions of people would still be working in manufacturing jobs in america. >> except, except they would have been put out of business by other people outcompeting them. >> right. exactly. >> but you're right. our volume of output is about the same as it's been for 20 years. but what we haven't succeeded in doing is to grab more and more of those new high-end manufacturing jobs. that's what the germans have been brilliant at. that's why -- one reason their unemployment rate is now lower than ours. they -- literally they are constantly studying high-end manufacturing needs in other countries. and they find these little gaps, and they go fill them. that's basically, essentially what we should do by looking at what -- who's winning in america? let's stop talking profit. let's look at who's winning. san diego, california, has the highest number of nobel prize

winning scientists in america. why? it's the center of our biotechnology revolution. but they're creating a lot of jobs for other people, too. so if you go there there's not a housing collapse. there's not anything, they're doing fine. silicon valley. orlando, florida, has 100 computer simulation companies. why? because it's disney world, universal studios, entertainment arts, video games, sports games, and the pentagon. what do they all have in common? they need computer simulation. if you and i decided to volunteer for a new national guard, we'd crash the planes. cost a lot of money to the taxpayers. so they teach us how to fly planes on simulators. it makes disney's exhibits much more exciting. it makes the video games more engro engrossing. they've got a big university, university of central florida. they've got all the federal investment and research. they've got all these private companies. they're doing great.

in every case, if you look at these prosperity centers, they show you what the jobs of tomorrow will be there. that's what we need to do everywhere. we need to put one of those within driving distance of every american. it will be hard to do, but that should be our goal. >> there certainly is a lot of promise in this country. but i can't imagine that this year's conference here wouldn't revolve around or get back to at points the strength of this country. the direction of this country. >> absolutely. >> and the strength of our political system. so i want to ask you from -- from that perspective about what's fwoigoing on in washingt. you've had some interesting comments of late to say about whether or not we need to raise taxes. the president obviously has a jobs plan that he's put out. but there is a lot of dismay about the direction of this country, about our feelings toward congress, and about whether or not our children will do better than us, which is what we always hope for. do you think this president can turn it around? and is the jobs bill that he's put forward political poise for the next election or actually something that can pass and make a difference in this country?

>> well, yes, it can make a difference. yes, it's political. but it's not political in the way he's been attacked. if you look at the jobs bill, forget about the budget. that's a whole different deal. the tax proposal, everything, that's a debate for what the next budget's going to be like. if you just look at what we need to do now, right now i would say this year and next year, we don't need spending cuts or tax increases. we need job measures. we don't need either one. in fairness to the president, and i think to many members of congress, their budget proposals, whether they're concentrated on spending cuts or tax increases, don't kick in until 2013. we need to work like crazy in 2012 to create jobs. take mark zandi who worked for senator mccain. he says the obama proposals and payroll tax cuts and the other

things would create about 1.5% to 2% economic growth, between 1 and 2 million jobs. that would put us in a better position next year. yes. that's positive. >> but is it naive to think that perhaps a millionaire's tax or even closing loopholes would be a measure that could help maybe push against what is a growing divide in our society, the american society, that could actually bubble over in a very bad way? should we be worried about that? should the president be addressing it? >> yes. i mean, i think on the merits, when we deal with the long-term debt reduction problem, which we have to do, we will have to have three things. we'll have to have spending reductions, tax increases and more growth. i don't think it's -- i don't think it's class warfare to ask me and people in high income groups to pay more simply because we've got the lion's share of the benefits of income

growth and tax cuts in the previous decade. basically they're talking about returning us to where we were the day i left office. i don't think that's a bad thing. but it won't solve the whole problem. there is no combination of tax cuts and spending growth that will bring this budget back under control without more economic fwrogrowth. i think working this year and next year on the economy and having the budget plan -- i don't mind the adoption of the budget plan. i wish they would have adopted it a year ago. it should trigger in when there's enough economic fwrogro we can handle it? >> why is there such a disconnect now between voters and washington? >> frankly, because there's not enough news conference like this. we're sitting here having a talk. you can disagree with me, have a different political perspective. but in the morning nobody wants to get hit upside the head with a food fight. in washington, and this is -- the american people can't escape all responsibility for this. what works best in politics is

clear, sharp conflict. and it also tends to be effective in getting a snippet on the evening news. but what works best in real life is cooperation, which is often not as exciting, but almost always more effective. we really are in a situation where in the modern world, the economics that work is based on conflict or cooperation. it's not government versus anti-government. it's smart government and a strong economy working together. but what works in politics is conflict. and there's this gaping chasm between what works in real life where we need our victories and what works in politics. and i don't know how to close the gap. that's really what i try to do with the global initiative. >> but you close e e ed the gap

you were president. we talk about you all the time on the show when people say, those tea partiers, they're crazy. i always say, and you can verify this, you think they're crazy, you should have seen us back in '94 and '95. and you will agree. >> you remember that? 100 of you never had a passport. and were proud of it. >> who needs a passport? but still, fast-forward to 2011. i'm interviewing john kasich. i said, john, remember we used to fight like hell in the '90s. you used to fight like hell with leon panetta when he was chief of staff and we were going through all the budget impasses and the shutdowns. but you still loved the guy. and he said, and i love him today. we would fight like hell, but at the end of the day, president clinton and the republican leadership wanted what was best for america and did what was required. what's different between when you were president and 2011?

>> you know what, it's tempting to say something self-serving. but i really think what happened is when we had the two government shutdowns, it sort of sobered everybody up. >> right. >> and you -- you guys found the limits of where you could go. and we had discovered in the previous election the limits of where we could go. i mean, because what happened in '94 and 2010 was different than what was interpreted. what really happened is we all know two things about the american people don't change. one is they are and have been since we became a country suspicious of the concentration of government power. so in general, whether it's right or not, they generally prefer to have the white house in one party and the congress in another. then when the democrats win, even if they do exactly what they promised to do, people start thinking, now, this might

be a little too much government. then when the -- if the conservative republicans get in, the sort of post-reagan anti-government government republicans get in, even if they do what they promise to do -- in defense of the tea party, that's all they've been doing. it's not like they kept this a secret. even if they do exactly what they promised to do, then people think, this is not enough. this is a little too much cutting. we had this defining event, these government shutdowns, which sort of established the goal posts. here's the end of this field. here's the end of this field. go out and play on the field now and get something done. that hasn't happened yet. >> the first balanced budge net a generation. >> yeah. >> balanced the budget four years in a row. first time since the 1920s. paid down the national debt. and the best part of it is, when i go out and give speeches even to conservatives, they long for

the good old days of bill clinton. >> but what we need here is some definie ining event like those government shutdowns which would establish the parameters. the debt ceiling will never do it. basically, particularly in a downturn, if the economy had been strong, the debt ceiling fight might have established the limits. but with the economy weak, the president could not responsibly allow the debt ceiling not to be raised. because we had to honor our credit. you couldn't let everybody's interest rates go up in this country as bad as it is now. >> i worry about how impactful that defining event would need to be to actually prompt real change. because i wonder, and i wonder what you think, if in the next, what, two years, if it's possible in a campaign cycle to sort of break the gridlock in washington. >> maybe. maybe it's more possible. it's interesting. remember, the analog here from

when joe and i were working is 2011 is 1995. 2012, the election year, is 1996. we had a great 2012, right? a great 1996. it was very productive. >> got a lot of things done. you passed welfare reform in '96. an election year. >> the majority of both parties in both houses voted for it. >> right. >> the final, the third version. we still had differences. what you want to do is create a situation where people just keep on working. and they know they're going to get to an end product. >> right. so let's talk about your better half. hillary. she -- listen, i'm sure you're glad you're over here instead of dealing with the mess over at the u.n. what a challenge she and the

president face. it is a no-win situation with this palestinian resolution. what's your take on it? >> well, i hope they'll find a way out of it, through it. because the palestinian frustrations are understandable. the opportunities we had for a peace agreement were considerable just, you know, but the arab spring has complicated the calculation of the israelis. one of the things that they wanted out of a peace agreement was in return for a palestinian state, they wanted all the arab neighbors to follow through on the saudi king's alliance where everybody but syria promised them political, economic and security cooperation and there was going to be a new partnership which would contain iran in a negative sense and in a positive sense would build a new economic middle east. yesterday we had one of our programs was on, all this positive change in the arab world.

liberation of women. more education. all of this. so i think they're worried now that the changes may turn bad for them. the palestinians, on the other hand, are worried that they'd produce security, economic growth, partnership, a total enunciation of terror, and they're no close tore a state in the west bank than they were before. so you've got this -- these two competing anxieties. and the u.s. will have to veto the resolution if it passes. >> the president has no choice, right? >> no. and for a very good reason. and all the people who are for it should want us to veto it for a simple reason. in order for there to be a negotiated settlement that the outside world helps, israel has to believe that there is one country in the world who cares whether they live or die. >> right. >> in other words, the real reason for this has nothing to do with the te taidetails. it's not the end of the world that the palestinians who are very responsible, this

government is a high class governmen government. in order for us to do any good, somebody's got to be around that the israelis know care whether they live or die. they think that's us. it always has been. doesn't matter whether there's a republican or democratic president or whether you think they should give up 95% of the west bank or not. that's -- they know we care whether they live or not. >> was that the secret of your success -- >> yes. >> -- in 2000 with negotiations? you pushed israel further than anybody believed was possible. >> but i also offered them a multi-year ironclad security guarantee. >> right. >> i -- the then prime minister, now defense minister, recognized that israel and a new state of palestine would both be under assault from the enemies of peace for three years. and we had a model for how we would all work together. and we handled that security business. the israelis are always -- they

drive the people who deal with them crazy in part because they know they've got to look around the corner. >> right. >> what did you think of republican candidate rick perry making comments on this issue? it seemed to be -- >> i thought two things. i thought, first of all, it was good politics and it was sort of like the trick that -- i think there were 70 republican house members that went to israel during the break and basically said, you guys do whatever you want. keep the west bank. we're coming back. we'll have the white house and the congress and we'll let you do whatever you want. i think -- i believe that's essentially what was going on. but i also believe that rick perry -- that's my culture, you know. i'm from next door. there is an enormous reservoir of support for israel in the christian evangelical community. and a lot of them believe as

some of the more militant subgroups do, that god meant for all of judians to be in the hands of israel. ehud barack and shimon that signed all these peace agreements violated the political mandate by wanting to give the -- >> i need to explain this to mia. by the way, mika. you grew up in the northeast. we grew up in southern baptist churches. they teach us this in kind erk r kindergarten. >> those congressmen they were out there working on netanyahu during the break, they're more militant than the israelis are. than a lot of them. i wouldn't be surprised if rick perry really believes that. i'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of people that never missed church on sunday in texas who believe it. >> all right.

mr. president -- >> bill clinton, thank you very much. >> speaking of arkansas, my alabama crimson tide against the arkansas razor backs this weekend. >> how is that going to go? >> i don't know. we should -- if we had the number one back in the sec the last practice of the year, he got knocked out for the whole season. we have four -- the only team in america to have four wide receivers that are all finalists for the trophy for the best wide receiver in america. if we had our back, we'd probably beat alabama. i don't know if our defense is good enough. it's going to be alabama's breathtaking defense against arkansas ends running around there like a video game. it will be fun to watch. >> all right, mr. president. thank you so much, as aullways. >> has he always been a low talker? is he just a low talker these days? >> a low talker. >> what's a low talker? >> you have to lean in to listen. >> what mika doesn't understand

is, one, that's a great quality trait. and, number two, she's getting older. her hearing's going bad. >> thanks for being on the show. terry mcauliffe is next. he's not a low talker. >> do we have to do that? >> we have to be nice. sort of a favor. >> i guess so. [ horn honks ] hey, it's sandra -- from accounting. peter. i can see that you're busy... but you were gonna help us crunch the numbers for accounts receivable today. i mean i know that this is important. well, both are important. let's be clear. they are but this is important too. [ man ] the receivables. [ male announcer ] michelin knows it's better for xerox to help manage their finance processing. so they can focus on keeping the world moving. with xerox, you're ready for real business. i know you're worried about making your savings last

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>> we're going downhill from here. it was good. all elegant. >> a wonderful talk with the president. we were talking about haiti. >> low talker. not my ears. >> talking about developing countries. it was wonderful. >> it's great. >> now to terry mcauliffe. and mike barnacle. barnacle wears a tie for president clinton. >> not just that he's wearing a tie. >> you know what? >> you look very nice. >> thank you. >> handsome. >> terry mcauliffe, all kidding aside, you are yourself investing in jobs across the globe. what's happening out there? what are the prospects not only for job growth in america but job growth across the world? >> well, obvious the number one issue, i think what you learn here at the clinton global initiative, you can't rely on the governments, governments around the world, a lot of the capital is frozen. you can do this.

they'll announce this afternoon $70 billion in commitments. people, if they come together to do good things, you can get it done. i think we have enough entrepreneurs out there putting their own capital at risk, i'm trying to do it, wood pellets to hybrid electric cars. >> wood pellets to electric cars. >> all renewable. all sustainable. we're taking over forests. pulverizing the wood into pellets. shipping them to you. we should be doing that in america. we've got to start thinking out of the box. we've got to start innovating. people are ready to go. we've got to get them going. >> the question is does the innovation come from governments? does it come from the private se sector? >> the private sect zblor. >> what can the government do to encourage? >> i don't know what this government can get struck today. i was truly struck by president clinton's remem branbrances of and the welfare reform bill that passed eventually with the

cooperation of rps aepublicans democrats. he vetoed it twice before the third and final version passed. think today. could anything like that occur today? >> we kept working. >> that was his point. that was his point. >> throwing punches at each other, but kept working. in the end, passed a historic welfare reform bill that was a great success. >> listen, governments don't create jobs. private sector do. but the governments can help set the plate. look what's going on with brazil with solar panels, china and wooden turbines. you can help incentivise. we've got to start making products in america. >> are we ahead of the curve, though, the government ahead of the curve on green energy. >> not even close. >> are we investing too quickly and there's not even a demand to funnel that? >> yeah. i always say we need a long-term manufacturing plan for our country. look at what china just increased their r & d tax credit by 85%. they want to own the wind turbine business. they want to own the electric

car business. they're setting the table for that. we in the private sector, we're doing what private capital can do. your government has to be there somewhat as a partner to help set the agenda for us to make us globally competitive. we've got to sell products. we can't create jobs unless someone is buying what you're making. >> we have to create things, too. >> out innovate people. >> made in america, it sounds great. great slogan. how do we actually get there? you have some businesses that are prospering because there's a joint effort between the united states and china. explain how that's working and how do we get to the point where it starts here? >> as you know, this summer i made an announcement. we went over to china, building a big 8.9 million square foot plant to build hybrid cars. the engines, power trains, battery management have to be made here in america. will ship over there. we've got to start doing that. private sector can do it. people want to buy our products. we have to outinnovate, outbuild. we also need to outeducate. we're falling behind on the stem courses. we've got to get serious.

25th in math, 23rd in sciences. >> your first car rolling off? >> october 30th. >> his first car rolling off the assembly line october 30th to be sold. it gets to the ultimate definition -- they throw the phrase around in washington the job creators. the job creators in this country are the people who are going to put cash down to buy the car, buy the sandwich at the sandwich shop, buy the pair of shoes at the shoe star. we are the ultimate job creators, the american consumer. we have to get -- government has to play a role in getting the consumers back into stores and buying. >> how is your home state of virginia doing as far as job growth goes? >> we're about the same. if you look at how many jobs we had three years ago to where we are today, keeping up with population growth, we're about the same. we have an issue in virginia because the department of defense is going to cut dramatically. they have to. the budgets all have to be cut. we rely so much on department of defense funds. that's why i always made the argument, i ran for governor. i got to run on big ideas.

don't like them, don't vote for me. they didn't. it's okay. i had a great time. the ideas are the same. >> you going to do that again? >> i always do things that i think can make a difference. you've got to change. you've got to think big. it's why we need new industries. we've got to innovate. we've got to make america number one again. >> i think that's yes. >> just before we came back on they had -- they had his name in big bold letters. look how big my name is. >> i can read it! i can read it! you get to be my age, you can't see it. i couldn't hear the president over there. >> that's because he's a low talker. terry mcauliffe, thank you. >> run, terry, run!

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♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu. mike, what did you learn? >> i learned i miss bill clinton's instincts for politics. >> what have you learned, terry? >> arkansas is going to beat alabama. >> what are you talking about? >> from the mouth of bill clinton. i've got to go with him. >> get a tie on. that's really impressive. i learned my next car i'm going to purchase. we'll show you there. >> look how cute this is. >> it's a cute car. of course, i will look like a clown because i'm 6'4". but it'll be a lot of fun. willie, what did you learn? >> in addition to all his othe