good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. leading off today, the texas massacre. with each debate, rick perry looks more and more like a triple a ballplayer trying it in the majors. he was lost last night on foreign policy, he stumbled his way through what should have been romney's flip-flopping. managed to say to republicans who disagree with his immigration policy, they don't have a heart, not a smart move. republicans he called didn't have a heart. even caught on what we generously call a nonfact, how about a fib. once again the republican audience became the story itself, this time, booing a u.s. serviceman for being gay. that said, they booed him out loud for being gay. this has become a huge negative for the gop, cheering the death penalty, let him die for someone who doesn't have health insurance. it doesn't help the candidates never take a stand against the

ugliness, excuse me, i'm not one of them. plus, worst suspicions confirmed department. the chairman of the joint chief of staff accused the pakistanny government of supporting attacks on the united states in afghanistan by aiding pakistani militants. is this the use, our country, prepared to go into pakistan and take the militants out? also, as expected, the palestinian authority has officially requested full membership status at the u.n., that's statehood, nationhood, if you will. and also as expected, israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu told the u.n. not as far as he's concerned. israel's ambassador joins us live tonight. finally, check out michele bachmann's claim americans should be allowed to keep every dollar, no more taxes, period. how does she want to fund the government she wants to run. how does she expect to get paid for the smaller fence for mexico that she wants, how does she expect to get paid this week? we start with rick perry's flip flot, simple flop in the debate.

david an msnbc analyst and sally joins us, a republican strategist in florida. let me start with david, by the way, the story headlines coming out before you start here are pretty dramatic, unforgiving of rick perry's performance. take a look at the headlines. they are damming. texas toast. michael med verve, a critic for everything, wrote in the daily beast, rick perry, beginning with the end. here's a headline -- >> bill chris tall on the weekly standard site, wrote an editorial with the headline yikes. he went on to run no frontrunner in a presidential field has ever we imagined had as weak a showing as rick perry. close to a disqualifying two hours for him. want to start with sally, republican political consultant, runs campaigns in florida.

among republicans, that's the target audience from now through next spring, how bad did rick perry do last night? >> he had a tough night. i think it would be difficult to say and i think even his own folks would acknowledge it was a difficult night for perry and more than just being a difficult night in the debate, he created an opening for governor romney with about 3500 republican activists who are gathered in orlando right now. for a straw ball lost that will take place tomorrow. this is a straw ballot governor romney declined to participate in. there's been an opening created. i think what you have to remember, chris, we are still very early. at this point three, four years ago, rudy giuliani was the darling of the media and leading in the polls. things can change quickly. >> politics gets more advanced every four years, things move a lot faster. i agree, everybody points out, somebody did it last night, rudy giuliani was the leader at this time. >> fred thompson. >> let's take a look at one of

the weakest moments on the fox news debate for mr. perry, governor of texas. he stumbled over what should have been, this is the easiest. a six-inch putt, i'm not a golfer, but a well rehearsed gift on romney's flip flops and he couldn't say it. let's listen >> i think americans don't know which mitt romney they are dealing with. is it the mitt romney that was an on the side of against the second amendment before he was for the second amendment? was it before he was before the social programs from the standpoint of he was far standing up for roe versus wade, before he was against it. roe versus wade. he was for race to the top. he's for obama care and now he's against it. >> david, i have never counted so many brain freezes in one sentence. >> please make it stop. please. we saw it last night.

he's making george w. bush look like the most articulate statesman from texas ever. as bad as that response was, he obviously had prepared for that line of attack and then couldn't pull it off. >> you can't remember the capital of florida. for a couple seconds, you to think a little bit. here's a guy trying to remember what he rehearsed for the show that night. >> index card it was on for him. i don't know if we'll get to it, >> we'll get to it. >> the answer he gave on pakistan, that was frightening. >> you know what, we have the power to go to that right now and we will. here's fox news debate moderator brett baer asking perry the governor of texas what he would do. this is a tough question. the 3:00 a.m., the call always comes at 3:00 a.m., if pakistan lost its nuclear weapons to the taliban, here's part of perry's response. >> just yesterday we found out through admiral mullen that haqqani has been involved with, that's the -- the terrorist group directly associated with the pakistani country,

so, to have a relationship with india, to make sure that india knows they are an ally of the united states, today we don't have those allies in that region that can assist us if that situation that you talked about were to become a reality. >> remember that beauty contestant a couple years ago that started talking about south africa and then talking about iraq and thinking of all those things in her head but nothing logical. what does india have to do with stopping it? india is a nuclear power. that's what we're going to do. get a nuclear power in south asia. to go to nuclear war with south asia. our wors certainly governor romnehad a good night. nobody can deny that but rick perry can take solace in the fact that debates don't nominate candidates. they are a piece of the puzzle, an important piece of the puzzle, but speaking as someone from florida and a

delegate to the straw ballot tomorrow people in florida, unlike new hampshire and south carolina are much less focused on the race at this moment. >> let me ask you this, i agree, they don't always decide elections. i think senator kerry won a couple bouts with bush last time around. something has to be on the other side. al gore can be sharper than george w. and all that. you have to like the other guy more. was there something likable that offset perry's sort of inability to speak? was he likable last night? i didn't think so. >> i think there are people in florida who are looking for a candidate who is very direct and speaks the truth. that's what governor perry attempted to exploit about governor romney, were his perceived flip flops on issues. there's still an audience for that there. you have to remember this is a very expensive race. it's a marathon, not a sprint. there are three candidates that have the resources to compete in the long haul and to me, the long haul means through florida.

which is looking at a relatively early primary now of late february. i think florida will be the deciding contest. >> who's the third? >> perry, romney and huntsman. huntsman, interestingly enough, with respect to the straw ballot was the only candidate who committed to play. his wife is from orlando. they have invested resources. he may overperform. not only did perry create an opening for romney with the florida delegates but he may have created an opening for huntsman and other candidates as well. >> who wins the straw vote tomorrow? romney or somebody else? >> i don't know if romney could win it, but he'll finish much stronger than people anticipated he would. he needs to finish second, because he has the strongest relationship with the delegates. he campaigned here actively in 2008. >> let's take a look at the speaking today at the c-pac conference in florida, rick perry tried damage control from last night. let's listen. >> as conservatives, we know

that values and vision matter. it's not who is the slickest candidate or the smoothest debater that we need to elect. we need to elect the candidate with the best record and the best vision for this country. >> well there he is reading his notes, of course. there he is. that points with anybody, can you lose a debate badly and say it didn't matter? >> no. you can't say it didn't matter. sally is right. a lot of people won't pay attention. he's had several outings now and he's 0 for 3. >> he hasn't been impressive, yet. which tells me he's not being serious. debate prep is one of the most serious things a candidate can do. he seems to have a problem staying up past the first hour after any debate. he trails off. maybe he needs iron supplements. >> i wonder, that is true. bush had that problem too. >> notice how he said it's not the most slick or smoothest, he didn't use the word smart. if you look at his answers last night, he didn't come across as a guy with enough intellectual

hefts to make decisions in the white house. >> are you a delegate? >> i am. >> who are you voting for? >> i haven't decided. >> you haven't decided? >> i haven't. >> i mean, i do this for a living here. where are you leaning right now as we go live tv right now, on a friday night? >> i'm leading toward hailey barbour my candidate before he made a decision. >> he's not running. >> i'm going to write in. >> you're hiding with hailey. i don't think he's running. we'll have you back, sally, republican consultant. >> she didn't say rick perry though. >> i'm not sure she was ever for perry. coming up -- if you don't tell us i can make it up. coming up, the other headline from last night's debate wasn't beautiful to watch, ugly, the crowd become the story about a gay soldier fighting in uniform. there he is. booing somebody fighting for our country and risking his life over there.

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back to "hardball." rick perry he is performance may have not been the best. for the third time in a row, republican audiences made news. the audience and not the kind you want. here is the crowd last night reacting to a question from a gay soldier over in iraq. this guy is on duty, on post and watch what happens. let's listen. >> in 2010, when i was deployed to iraq, i had to lie about who i was, because i'm a gay soldier, and i didn't want to lose my job. my question is, under one of your presidencies, do you intend to circumvent the progress

that's been made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military? [ audience booing ] >> yeah, i would say any type of sexual activity has absolutely no place in the military. the military's job is to do one thing, and that is to defend our country. we need to give the military, which is all volunteer, the ability to do so in a way that is most efficient and protective of our men and women in uniform. and i believe this undermines that ability. [ audience cheering ] >> well, there's the republican party coming out against sex in the military. anyway, the debates last night, some of the audience cheers executions, remember that one, the previous debates, and allowing the uninsured to die, that was in the tea party debate. well, this can't help the image of a party looking to win a national election, i wouldn't think. alex burns is with politico and chris cillizza is managing editor of postpolitics.com and an msnbc contributor. thank you, gentleman, both -- alex, i want to hear what you think about this? this sort of raw stuff coming out of republican audiences,

anti-gay, burn 'em, just right off the bat, let's execute hundreds of people, really anti-attitudes about people who don't have health insurance. let 'em die on the gurney! this instinctive negativity and even hatred of people who are in trouble and are vulnerable doesn't strike me as a compassionate conservative commentary on the party. >> well, chris, i think that you just sort of hit the nail right on the head with that term, compassionate conservative. there's an opening here for one of the candidates on the stage to be the guy at the debate who says, you know what, let's just take the temperature down a couple of degrees. let's enforce criminal laws, let's not cheer for executions. you know, let's get tough on health insurance, let's not cheer for people who die because they don't have it. you know, there's that space there for someone to sound like the compassionate guy, the guy with heart. no one has sort of stepped up into that role just yet. >> chris cillizza? >> you know, alex is right, but i would add, the guy who looks presidential and sounds presidential, right, you're the president of the whole country.

i know it's a primary, in democratic primaries you're on the left and republican primaries, you're on the right. >> who says all gay people are democrats? don't they feel any love at all or affection or exceptions of the people in their own political ranks? >> you know what it struck me as, as i was watching, is that there's no natural in this debate. there's no natural in this field. let me explain. if that happened with bill clinton or ronald reagan -- >> what would bill have done? >> they would have said, you know what, this guy is in there, he's risking his life for us. they would have paused -- now, he might have probably gotten to whatever point he wanted to get to, but he would have paused, because he is naturally gifted at leading and understanding and that matters. >> you're on to something. here's what you're on to, is there any natural leader who can stand against the crowd in the republican party, or is it mob rule? in other words, they have these raw emotions, fine, but usually there's a leader that stands up. they don't need edmond burke, who stands up and says, let's think that through again. this guy is fighting for our

country, you may not approve about his political orientations, but he's fighting for our country, let's have a hand of applause for everyone in our military. that would be a chilling moment. why doesn't somebody -- and here's my hunch, it doesn't work. perry came out for having a heart for the illegal immigrant's kid who came into this country at the age of 3 and is trying to get into college in the state he's living in. how about some heart? >> got booed, chris. >> they boo him. >> is it possible, alex, you can't stand against this mob rule right now on the tea party right? you can't do that? >> i think that answer you were mentioning from rick perry, did the texas governor an awful lot of damage, not necessarily because he tried to be compassionate in a party that's hostile to compassion, but because he questioned the motives of people who disagree with him on immigration. so i think that that could have been a moment for him, where he tries to take kind of the george w. bush line on immigration, you know, that if you're going to walk 200 miles through the desert for a job, i want you in my country. but he didn't quite pull it off. and i think that goes to the other chris' point that there's not a natural in this election,

there's not a guy who in that split second -- >> but even mccain, who wasn't a brilliant politician, he stood up against calling obama a muslim. when you know he isn't. >> chris, this is the back and forth. if you look at polling, republican voters say, we want someone who can win and who can lead, not just someone who agrees with us. but that's in theory. in practice, all of these guys, and i would say romney is the least like this. look, romney -- you've heard mitt romney say arne duncan did some good things, praising anyone in the obama administration is not good. so he's willing to go as close as you can go, and remember last night, provoked about did he think the obama administration was a socialist, he didn't answer -- >> so he's not willing to get in the barrel and do what they want like, for example, he will not say -- he will not say he's a socialist. he will not say, i, mitt romney, am a tea partier either. he's very careful not to ruin himself for the general. here he is. let's listen to rick perry, given a chance, receiving a round of boos for defending his position on educational opportunities in texas for those children, get this, of illegal immigrants.

>> if you say that we should not educate children who have come into our state for no other reason than they've been brought there, by no fault of their own, i don't think you have a heart. this was a state issue, texans voted on it, and i still support it greatly. [ applause ] >> senator santorum -- [ booing ] >> you heard that, alex, it began as some whoops, some supporters there, then you heard the slow delayed mean roar of disapproval. the focus group afterwards said that was the least popular thing said talking about heart. conservatives are offended when you suggest they don't have a heart. >> well, i think for the first two-thirds of that answer, rick perry was on to something, talking about sort of being compassionate toward the children of undocumented immigrants. john mccain's answer was sort of the textbook answer on this,

that, look, we can disagree around the policy, but we all have to recognize that these people we're talking about are all god's children. but that's not where rick perry went. he went and said that a position that most people in the republican party hold is heartless. >> thank you, it's great having you on. please come back. one of the young genius's i read off. >> i'll take it. >> up next, michele bachmann says no payment for government. this is like the old roosevelt thing. it won't cost anything if you vote for me. that fence i want -- my salary is free. how far is she going? who is going to pay her paycheck if we don't pay taxes. stick around. she belongs there, the side show. you're watching "hardball" on msnbc. i habe a cohd.

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back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. a great sideshow tonight.

first, it wasn't all tense at last night's gop debate, as candidates sparred back and forth with each other, new to the debate scene was candidate gary johnson of new mexico. he tried to inspire some laughs. >> my next-door neighbor's two dogs have created more shovel-ready jobs than this current administration. >> well, he was playing to the right crowd with that one. only problem, the joke was vaguely familiar. >> my dogs have created more shovel-ready work than obama has. >> wow. almost verbatim. but, don't jump to conclusions. rush may have done some borrowing himself. check out this photo from a tea party way back in 2009. you've got to give credit where credit's due. wow. and more from the debate front, here's a new take on reality. at one point, candidates were asked about taxes. let's hear the inimitable michele bachmann's one-of-a-kind take on tax policy. now, she's running for president. here she goes.

>> i think you earn every dollar, you should get to keep every dollar that you earn. that's your money. that's not the government's money. that's the whole point. barack obama seems to think that when we earn money, it belongs to him. and we're lucky just to keep a little bit of it. i don't think that at all. i think when people make money, it's their money. >> that's right, we shouldn't have any taxes, so, one, no one pays a dime. well, to be fair to bachmann, very fair, take a few steps back, saying we do need to make some contributions to fund the government over time, but not before as a country we have a change of mind-set, then we have to pay tax. 200 proof pandering on display here. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. up next, "your business" with j.j. ramberg. may seem like a trumped-up hollywood premise. ♪ but if you take away the dramatic score... take away the dizzying 360-degree camera move, and take away the over-the-top stunt,

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