special broadcast from new york, the president's diplomacy. the palestinians push for statehood with the united nations. they are ungrateful. the united states commitment to israel's security is unbreakable. >> there are new fears of violence as hopes fade for any peace talks between israelis and palestinians. it's new fodder for the presidential race. >> it is time to change our policy of appeasement toward the plinlians, to strengthen our ties with the nation of israel. >> this morning, i speak with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. how will he manage this during the historic era. then the debate at home. the economy and taxes. is the president's plan basic fairness or class warfare, and what will it mean for jobs? joining me, the independent mayor of new york city, michael bloomberg. finally this morning we kick

off nbc's week-long focus, education nation. what big ideas are driving reform in public schools? what role should the federal government play? and what should our students know to compete in this distressed and increasingly global economy. with us, former clinton cabinet official, now president of the university of miami, donna shalala. former secretary of education for president reagan and host of bill bennett's "morning in america," bill ben end. chairman and ceo of special olympics, tim shriver. and author of the book, "fair luck," pbs's tavis smoothly. author, tavis smiley. smiley. and good morning from new york. we are here at 30 rockefeller plaza to kick off nbc's special

week-long education nation summit and it could not come during a more volatile week on wall street. the role education plays in getting the country back to work. more on that in a few minutes. first, is the middle east about to take another violent turn? after a combative speech to the u.n. general assembly demanding recognition of statehood, palestinian president mahmoud ahmadinejad returned to the west bank. moments ago, i sat down with the prime minister of israel, benjamin netanyahu. prime minister, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> good to see you here in person in new york. >> it's kind of early. >> it is. here, the scene on friday when president abbas made the push for palestinian statehood in the united nations. as those scenes played out, euphoria, a pride for abbas.

this was a milestone moment for the palestinians. it most certainly will fail. my question to you is will there be violent consequences for that? >> i hope not. it can succeed. there's two pieces -- two sides to the equation, but they have to give peace in return. what they are trying to do in the united nations is get a state without peace or giving israel peace and security. i think that's wrong. that should not succeed. that should fail. what should succeed is for them to actually sit down and negotiate with us to get two states for two peoples, a demilitarized state that's a jewish state. that's what should succeed. >> you understand the palestinians are saying it's not going happen. there is no peace process right now, is there? >> it's because of them. i said in the u.n., i said to president abbas, look, we're in the same city, we're in same

building, for god's sake, in the u.n. let's sit down and talk peace. why are we talking about talking and negotiating about negotiating. it's very simple to get to peace, put all of your conditions to the side. sit down opposite on the table. >> i have heard you say that, but that's not going to happen. >> why is it not going to happen? >> i'm saying there's not going to billion resumption talks. >> i'm not sure. the palestinians are trying to get a state to continue the conflict with israel rather than end it. they are trying to detour around peace negotiations by going to the u.n. and have the automatic majority give them a state. that's unfortunate. the only way we are going get peace is to negotiate it between the parties. and i think at the end of the day, even though you're very pessimistic, even though many are very pessimistic, you know, it could happen. all he has to do, abbas, is to real lietz what i just said and

sit down and just do it. >> i'm not making a judgment. i'm simply kind of reading where we are. let me ask you a question. israel is arguably aize lated as its ever been. in the midst of arab spring. turkey turned against you. the arab world turned away from those who had peace treaties with israel. in this day and age, at this moment, despite israel's well known and substantial security concerns, how can you occupy palestinian territory? >> well, you've got two assumptions in your questions that i want to parse out and actually suggest that they're wrong. the first one is that we're isolated. we're not isolated in this country, which happens to be the strongest country on earth. i walked yesterday in central park. people met me. jewish-americans and many not jewish-americans. keep the faith.

be strong, we are with you. a former lieutenant colonel in the marines, now a teacher, met me in a restaurant. he said we're with you all the way. stay strong. a new york nypd policeman said i'm not jewish, we support you. stay strong. america supports is reelg in unparalleled waways, number one. number two, you should come with me to greece or bulgaria or poland or see the talks we have with the dutch and with others. people have a different view. they have a different view. in italy, many, many countries are coming to realize that our demand that we have direct negotiations and that the palestinians finally recognize the jewish state and give this tiny country israel the security it needs.

people are getting around to that. i would argue, i would challenge how it's read. very strong -- >> you are not worried as being seen as out of the sync with the times? even if you are right, and i know you believe you are right. even with history is on your side, is it possible in this environment being right is not enough? >> it's possible to insist on the things that make life possible and make peace possible. go to the core of the issue, the core of the conflict. the core of the conflict, to recognize israel, get to the truth. i stand on the truth because a peace that is based on the reality -- >> let me come back -- >> secondly, i said to the u.n., you know, better bad press than a good you lodgy. i'm responsible for the one and only jewish state. i'm not going to head recklessly to feed more territory, the crocodile of militant islam, as i call it. i want to first erect a wall against this militancy that

takes over every territory that we vae indicatcate. i want to make sure it doesn't snap its gaping jaws, as i said, and devour us for dinner. that's peace. people that insisted on property whou've insisted on reciprocity, who have insisted on peace have not been popular over the years, over the decades. you know, a lot of good people receive bad press. we stand, i stand for principle, david. i stand for what i sthinch is required for my nation to survive. and let the political factions and the winds of chattering classes move aside. that's not important. >> you talk about your alliance with the united states. back in 2002 you said israel had no better friend in the white house than george w. bush. would yaw -- you say the same about president barack obama? >> when did i say that? >> 2002. >> they keep moving and adding new people. >> george w. bush and president

obama are good leaders in your mind? i'm asking a serious question. you said that america was behind you. and, in fact, this has been a frosty relationship between this administration and your administration, and the reality is there is politics in this country and a presidential campaign. just this week, mitt romney said of barack obama he threw obama under the bus. do you disagree with those statements? >> david, you're trying to throw me under the bus of american politics. and guess what, i'm not going to be thrown there. >> you didn't mind disagreeing about president clinton. do you agree with this? >> this is the truth about america. israel enjoys tremendous bipartisan support. tremendous. you have to walk around the bredth and length of this country, fly across the country.

it's a big country. everywhere you go, you see tremendous, tremendous affinity and sympathy for israel. that is one of the great blessings that israel has in the 21st century. i think that bipartisan support is expressed by any personal happenstance >> are you concerned -- >> president obama. every one of the u.s. presidents represent and acts on the friendship of the american people to israel. by the way, a piece of news, israel is the one country in which everyone is pro-american. opposition and the polish and the like. and i represent the entire people of is real who say thank you, america, and we're friends of america and we're the only relionelal lie of america in the mid east. >> in your book, president obama is just as much a friend as george w. bush. >> they are all friends equally representing friendship of america. >> let me ask you a bottom-line question. >> there's no peace prospect yet as we talked about.

what if it ends up with the palestinians authority simply dissolving? doesn't israel then become a minority leadership over a majority population not consistent with democracy? >> we don't want that. i don't want the palestinians to be incorporated into israel as citizens or subject. it doesn't work. i said that to my colleagues, by tfl way, at the internal cabinet meetings. i say i want to be very clear about what i want. i don't want a peace process. >> what happens -- >> it's not our choice. i think the choice is they have their own independent state, which recognizes our ancestral connections to this land, but also recognizes the fact that we have unique security requirements because we're a country that could conceivably be the width of manhattan, which is kind of hard to defend in a

tough neighborhood. if we have their recognition of israel as a jewish state and the requirements, there's no reason that we won't have peace. that's what i'm working for. i can't -- president abbas has to do what i did. and it's tough facing your constituents and addressing your base and say, you know, it's over. i recognize a jewish state. israel is here to stay. it's not a fact that it's here today and gone tomorrow. >> let me pick up on that point. as you said in your statement, president abbas referred to the crime of israel being 1948, not 1967. isn't it quite clear that the palestinians will never accept israel as a jewish homeland? do you fear the two-state solution is no longer viable? >> you know, i was so disappointed to hear him say that because he was going back. i was trying to move forward.

i said, listen, let's talk. you know, i have deep, deep connections to this land, the land of israel, the land of abraham, isaac, and jay skob. jacob is the father of benjamin, my namesake. 4,000 years connected to this land. i recognize this in other people living there. let's sit down and work out a solution. you tell me, now president abbas comes and says this land has been sacred for muslims and christians for 2000 years. hello! you know, we have been around there 2,000 years. jesus came from a certain place. you know, there's this bible thing which precedes it. what is this? why can't you recognize our history? why can't you recognize the jewish connection to the jewish land and work on recognizing the past, seize the future?

i'm willing to do that. i gave a speech. you heard my speech. i wouldn't say it was a softy speech. it was a tough speech, but conciliatory. here is my hand. reach out, grasp it. let's make peace. if you ask me, what is the main thing, the simple thing, if you strip away everything in all the arguments, the fact is, david, you can tell me now, you can ask me a question. are you willing to sit here, change your plans have president abbas come here and start peace negotiations right now on the sunday show? well, in the afternoon. it would take some time to reach him. the answer is, yes. i would do it. he would not do it. so, if we want to get a two-state solution, it's his decision. >> final point. >> from my point of view, we can get it. well peace and with security. >> former president clinton has been critical of you. and your approach. and he said the following and i'll put it up on the screen.

bill clinton affirmed that the united states should veto the palestinian resolution of the u.n. security council for member-state status because the id raylies need security guarantees before agreeing to the creation of a palestinian state. but the netanyahu government has moved away from the consensus for peace, making it. that's what happened. every american needs to know this. that's how we got to where we are. the real cynics believe that the netanyahu government's continues call for negotiations over borders and such means that he's not going to give up the west bank. >> you know, i regretfully and respectfully disagree with former president clinton. he should know, more than anyone else in the peace conference he provided in camp david in 2000 with the former prime minister abbas, it was the palestinian side that walked away from the parameters. and in 2008 president bush can tell you how they walked away, just would not close in on

another prime minister's suggestions. in the two and a half years since then, anybody knows that i made these offers again and again. call for two states for two people. throws the settlements. nobody did that, ever, for nearly a year. they didn't come. they don't want to woman. they go to the u.n. i disagree with that. >> his pre miss is the west bank would never be given up? that's not true? >> no. we could arrive at an arrangement to give the palestinians the life of dignity. they have to have leaders who are prepared to do it. you know what? i hope they do. not only for our sake, for their sake, too. >> we're going to leave it there, prime minister netanyahu, thank you very much. >> thank you. from the mideast to the debates back home, the economy and jobs. joining me now, the mayor of new york city, michael bloomberg. mayor, thanks for having us in the fair city. >> thank you for coming. the rai

no rain, we're all good. >> education nation coming. this has been a tough week for testimony dow, the worst since october 2008. here's from "the wall street journal." this captured the market swoon on recession fears. >> what goes on in europe concerns us greatly because if europe comes apart, the eu comes apart, people own securities around the world in this day and age. and then the partisanship in the united states. i think about it. one month later, david, we are a few days, a week away from shutting down the government again. it spooked us a month ago. it's going to spook us now. people have no confidence that washington, both sides of the isles, both ends of pennsylvania avenue, are coming together and trying to do what's right for the economy. >> can you explain how that impacts businesses? because we hear it. it's the convention alt wisdom that the lack of leadership uncertainty means the businesses aren't hiring. they're making money, doing more

with less, and yet they're not hiring. >> well, nobody has any confidence. if you're a bank and you have money would you make a loan when people are talking about putting you in jail for what happensed in the mortgage crisis three or four years ago? you hunker down. people expand. every day there's different regulation and tags policy. business has to know what it's going to be in the future to plan because it's a long-term commitment. if you are an individual, would you take the extra vacation when you are not sure what washington is going to do to keep job creation going in america? in the end, it's confidence, confidence, confidence. >> the job of confidence, as you have said before as the chief executive, is president obama. >> there's no question. is the president. he needs help from both sides of the aisle and from congress. >> how do you accept this. is he exercising leadership? does he have a vision? >> some things i agree with,

some things i don't. i think he has a vision. i think he's put some things which may or may not make a difference. at least he's trying. everything we talk about in washington is viewed in is it good or bad politics, not is it good or bad for the economy. >> what about the economy. when do you see substantial job growth and the number coming down? >> you are not going to do it until people feel better about the future. you're not going to feel better until they see washington pull together. i hope it doesn't have to wait a year and a quarter until the next presidential election. we can't wait. i keep saying, whether you like the president or not, everybody has to pull together and help the president because as the president goes, so goes the country. as the country goes, so goes your job and ability to feed your family, the government. >> the big economic debate is about taxes.

the president, this week was in cincinnati taking it to the republicans. this is a portion of what he said. >> now the republicans, you know, i talked about this earlier in the week. they said this is class warfare. you know what? if asking a bigaire to pay their fair share of taxes, to pay the same tax rate as a plumber or teacher is class warfare, then you know what? i'm a warrior for the middle class. >> does that trouble you? >> it does trouble me. you can't define what is middle class and what is wealthy and what is poor. every time you have a jump and people play games on one side of another. i think it's not fair to say that wealthy people don't pay their fair share. they pay a much higher percentage of their income. they have a higher rate than people who make less. the buffett thing is theatrics. ful warren buffett made his money from orgnary income than

capital gains, his tax would be a lot higher than his secretary tairs apz. if you are going to raise taxes, you are going to have to raise taxes on everybody. i suggest 2% or 3% on everybody. it's 150 bucks. for the wealthy, it's a lot of money. it's the only way to get things through congress. it's also true, if you are going to cut back, we can't balance the budget, david, without increasing revenues and reducing experiences. if you're going to reduce expenses, you have to reduce expenses for everybody. you have to take away the tax breaks for the wealthy and cut back on entitlements. unless we do all these things, it just doesn't work. what's good theater and good politics, suspect necessarily good policy. >> you and warren buffett have billions. whenl you speak people listen. do you think he's doing a disservice to the debate when the millionaires will pay on average 29.1% of income according to the associated

press fact check. >> a lot of it is more than just theater. i think it's more than a sound bite economic policy. we should look at the real data rather than say one guy pays mar than his secretary or doesn't. >> let me ask you about politics. it's a big part of the debate over the economy and taxes. there's talk that there's dissatisfaction in the field. you know governor chris christie well. there's a lot of people pushing for him to get into the race. should he? >> i don't know if he will. i've never talked to him about that. he's been a good governor in new jersey. he's shaken things up in a state that's had problems on and on and on. some things he does i agree with. some things i don't agree with. if he wants to run, get in there and do it. >> would he be a formidable candidate? >> yeah, i think he would be a credible formidable candidate. if you take a look at all of the republican field at the moment, there's a number that obviously don't have any chance to be --

influence the dialogue or to be the nominee, and there are some that do. some i know, some i don't. >> what about rick perry? he loses the straw poll in florida. romney won in michigan. do you think his candidacy is fading? >> i don't know. the pundits will tell you better than i. it will go up and down a million times. keep in mind, the press wants a battle, so they are going to knock down who is ahead or the woman behind. i will say some of these candidates' positions really trouble me to not believe in science is just ridiculous, but then also to accuse peary of doing something wrong with a vac even when he probably did what's right. to accuse romney of doing something wrong with health care massachusetts, which in all fairness is the only change that has worked. these two kaemts who seem to be ahead of at the moment, they both have things agree with and

things i don't agree with. >> has anything changed your view about the need for a third party and do you think it's viable in this leadership climate? >> i always thought a third-party candidate is not a viable candidate. i'm not going to be one. if somebody wants to run, if it's going to get you on the ballot, it's good for democracy. the truth of the matter is the public tends to vote with one of the two major parties. >> will you endorse a major candidate? >> probably not. i've got to work with whoever wins. i have an obligation to do what is right for the city of new york. whether i think it's right for the country, my job is to make sure new york city benefits from whoever is in office. and i'll work toward that. >> do you think the president kl be re-elected with unemployment so high? >> yeah. the incumbents have an advantage. if i was the president, i was emphasize the things i have done. some things haven't worked, and i'm sorry about that. the president is a viable

candidate. >> let me spend a couple moments on education. it's been a top priority for you during your years as mayor. more recently there's been some criticism about larger class sizes, polls indicating there's disapproval of you among new yorkers. >> wait a second. >> i'm asking you. >> one poll said that the public wasn't satisfied with the improvement in education. the intellectual dishonesty in the poll is mind-boggling. there are only 10% of the people in the poll who were asked in the poll who send their kids to public schools. if you don't work in the public schools or send your kids to public schools, how would you know? if you go and survey the parents, they overwhelmingly think that this school is happening. if you poll the parents, they think it's better. they love the choice we have. we are opening new schools and closing failing ones. we have raised salaries 45% over ten years to keep them from leaving the city. they love the fact that we've

increased the school budget by over 105% in the last ten years, our number one priority. they love the fact that we're focusing education on the kind of things that help kids get jobs. our objective is to make everybody college ready or career ready or both. in the olden days we had vocational schools. today, we have design, art and graphics, medicine, law, computer science. we even have a deal with ibm where a school goes 9 through 14 grays. first 9 through 12 in the public schools and you stay in and get a junior college degree. you stay in and get a junior college associates degree and ibm puts you on the list to hire you. it matters to parents. they love the schools. when you do the survey, the constant dissing of what our parents and teachers have done, and our kids have done, find just disgraceful. the truth of the matter is, we vl increased by 50% the

percentage of kids that get high school 2kdiplomas. it's not as good as you would like it to be but you can't get a job in sanitation without a high school diploma. you can't get in the military without a high school diploma. so that is something. and we're also reducing the gap between our minority kids and those who have scored much better. >> perfect segue into our conversation on education nation. thank you so much. >> my pleasure. >> appreciate it. coming up, kicking off education nation. a special discussion, more of what we started here about public schools and how politics and policy affect the debate over reform. also how to keep america competitive in a global economy. >> plus, we'll have more on the race for the white house in 2012. joining us, university of miami president, donna shalala. bill bennett, tim shriver and tavis smiley, after the break. bill bennett, tim shriver and tavis smiley, after the break.

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we are back with our round table. joining me now, former secretary of health and huma we are back with our round table. joining me now, former secretary of health and human services for president clinton, donna shalala. chairman and ceo of the special olympics. tim shriver is here. author of the book "fail up" tavis smiley and host of bill bennett in the morning, bill bennett. welcome to all of you. this is such a big topic. it's such a -- i don't know. it's complicated on one level. it has a lot of layers, but it's so important. big bennett, have we succeeded in this country in making education an economic issue ran than just a social issue? >> oh, i think we have. i mean everyone's so focused economics now and you see the connection with education.

we know the effect of good teaching and good schools on kids' abilities to get jobs. we know about skill deficits. and we know very simple in the most global way, if you have higher education, if you've completed college, the unemployment rate is about 5%. if you've finished high school, your unemployment rate is about 9%. if you haven't finished high school, the unemployment rate is about 15%. >> where are with with broad sweeping reform? the president spoke this week. he's ushered in a program called race to the top that followed "no child left behind" in the bush admin strarks but we're not there yet. >> we're not there yet. we're in fits and starts, and we still fail to recognize that it's not just metrics and testing. it's investment in teacher, in families. the economic dimension is very cleefrmt i had been to a dinner

party and a mother got up and said she had to get home and help her daughter with her homework. two waiter, their faces changed. they were working their second jobs. they couldn't get home to help their kids with homework. that's another economic dimension of education. we know that patiental support, community support makes a difference. it's not just the metric of testing and putting pressure on the schools and the teachers. this is a big issue. >> thomas smiley, you have a special report that's out that you've done called "too important to fail" about african-american males in the country who are still falling behind in the educational system. is government the answer? is a more muscular result, is it actually showing results? >> let me just say i don't think this is as complicated as we make it. this not a skill problem. it's a will problem. does america have the will to make education a priority? wi know the things that work. why don't we scale up to. your earlier point, the politics

often get in the way and that's specifically the case with black boy. in some states not even 50% of the boys finish high school. you put on top of that a disproportion at use of suspension and expulsion and poverty and crime and drugs and gain gangs, it's no wonder that those numbers exist. if the problems that are engulfing the black boys were to happen to the white boys, it wouldn't have be just a national disgrace but a national emergency. these boys are disposable and invisible. they don't matter. >> there are areas where there are programs privately funded in some cases, tim shriver, that are successful. what is working that can be a national model outside of what government may try to do? >> the question isn't do we have high expectations. i think what's happened in the

last decade is we have high expectations. democrats and republicans came together ten years ago, passed legislation that said we want to be more focused on ensuring every child learns. what's happened however unintentionally is we've narrowed expectations. secretary shalala says we focus too much on tests and performance measures that don't allow students to be motivated and don't allow teachers to teach or activities that inspire kids. we don't have an inspiration nation. we have a blame and recrimination nation when it comes to education. teachers are the focus of what everybody thinks is wrong rather than looking at the way kids, families can be engaged in the school and invioloted to do the kind of things of the 21st century schools, social skills, optimism. these are the things that inspire young people. they have been pushed out. >> bill, do you worry about -- i mean the accountability movement

is really behind reform. that's taken hold. now we've gotten into a prepolarized place, even in education reform. so what are the big ideas now that you think are working? >> some of that polarization is good, by the way. let me say one word for tests. if we don't do the test, you don't know. you have to do the test to find out how the patient is doing. when you do the test, you find out in the n.a.t.e. scores, 53% of black fourth graders cannot read at a basic level. it is a national disgrace that needs to be shouted from the rooftops. particularly since we're spending a lot more money on education and reading. you asked about things that work. here in this city, not far from where we are, success academy number one in the same building with ps-149. the success rate of the charter school is tremendous, very encouraging. let's do what they do. let's use the will to do what they do and not what they do in the failing school. i want to come back to something very quickly that donna said and

tavis picked up. actually tim did as well. two critical adults in this business. teachers and teacher accountability. i'm for it. i think we should pay our good teachers more. the other adult is the parent. it does make a difference in a society when 30% of our kids don't live with their fathers. when there are a lot of people who can't go home and work with the kids on homework. all the research is clear. the teachers, the single most important factor in the school. the single most important factor in the child's education is the parent. the parent's attitude toward education and the parent's interest in that child's education. >> i agree with that. >> in fairtaly -- fairytales, the children are saved by caring adults. we need more caring adults in the lives of our children. it's not just formal teaching in the classroom. it's coaches.

it's people involved in kids lives at every level and supporting their parents. their parents need better jobs so they can help them with their homework. >> when we have a more muscular federal rule, to have this conversation, are you concerned that you have another round of republican candidates talking about shutting down the department of education? is that part of the solution? >> that would be tragic if that happened, number one. but i think there is a role for government to play here. again, the bastardization and the demonization over the past few years of teachers, of unions, and of collective bargaining, that is not the answer. i was with a group of young folks yesterday in washington trying to to teach america. these young folks were complaining to me about how they are told they need to test. they are not allowed to be flexible and creative in the classroom. because they have to teach to the test. i agree with everything tim said except one thing. i still think in this country, this might surprise you, the one thing that i agree with, i love the phrase, the bigotry of

low expectations. the soft bigotry of low expectations. if you don't expect them to learn, if you don't expect them to succeed -- >> bill, let me get your response after the break. we'll take a quick break. we'll ask this important question, what should our students know in order to qualify in this very important economy. more of our roundtable after this. annuities and investments, choose pacific life, the power hey, check it out. she's using the mr. clean magic eraser bath scrubber. i've heard of it, but i haven't seen one up close. what's the word around the sink? that it removes 3 times more soap scum per swipe, and it came from outer space. it is not from outer space! no, man, it's from outer space. they're aliens on an intergalactic cleanliness mission. they're here to clean up the universe. oh, the kitchen scrubbers are aliens, too? yeah, look at that greasy kitchen mess. everybody's in on the cleanspiracy, man. i can't even trust myself. [ male announcer ] mr. clean magic eraser kitchen and bath scrubbers. the clean is out of this world.

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we're back with our round table. bill bennett. we're back with our round table. bill bennett, i want to pick up on this issue. you have the federal government saying never shut down the education department again. >> i was held hostage until ronald reagan sent a letter to to committee saying he wouldn't abolish the department. otherwise i wouldn't have gotten the job. no, you don't need a department of education. but you have one. you're likely to have one. it should do good things and encourage the right things. the secretary of education does the right thing. when you look at what works, what succeeds for kids, federal education department matters

less than the adults in that child's life in the home, the school, and on the playing field. you get that right combination for that child to sub seed. >> and donna shalala, this question that i keep coming back to is what should our students know? what should the graduating seniors know in this economy? in this moment in time? it plays in the role of higher education. >> it does. clearly, they have to know how to read and write and speak. more than that, they have to know how to absorb new knowledge. because we can't predict what they're going to need to know ten years from now. we do know they need a set of skills to absorb new technology and understand the new things coming at them, and that's very important. higher education had a role. we need to drive down requirement for the schools. in the 19th century we increased the quality of the schools by saying you can't come in unless you have these skills, unless you have taken these courses.

we did that in wisconsin when i was there. it helped to transform the secondary school system. we gave them seven years to meet the new requirements at the university of wisconsin madison. higher education has a role here. in demanding the kids be better prepared. >> you say it's not just what students should know. it's how they leadership, which is important. >> we have learned a lot about how they learn. we learned we can teach important skills. we can teach them to be problem solvers. we can teach children to be persistent and optimistic. we can teach children to understand their own feelings and be able to channel those feelings in productive ways with learning tasks. when we do that well, we do the social and emotional side of the ledger well, test scores go up. sol when we think about kids that are underachieving, we've got to think about motivation, attention, inspiration. we've got to get the kids involved in owning their own education. i agree saying the federal

government shouldn't be an obstacle. it can be an invitation. it can be asking the question. the question i love is what would it take for every teacher and every parent and every child to leave the school at the end of the day inspired? that's a question we can ask ourselves. >> but, is character education a necessary part of school reform? if we have to acknowledge that the whole child is somehow let down by what's happening outside of the school? >> in a word yes. for years it's important. number two, depending on what kids need to know. they need to think critically for themselves. as tim put it, problem-solving. when you teach to the test, this is my problem, kids don't learn how to think critically for themselves number one. what they should also know very quickly, thomas friedman said the world is flat. i'm not sure it's flat as much as it is tilted. it's tilting more on more against us. that is to say we are in a global environment. a global world. if we don't get this education right for our children, the country ends up being -- bearing

the brunt of that. so a renewed focus on our children is ultimately a renewed focus on our country. >> let me say a word about discipline in the global economy. a lot of outsourcing, which a lot of us regrets takes place not because wages are lower, but skills are better. people go to india because they know math and science better. sol a word for the disciplines here. >> do we need more vocational education? >> yes, we do. right now, in this job market, people are looking for welders, mechanics, plumbers and engineers. we have too much disdain for that. >> quickly president shalala, i have one question. should college athletes be paid? >> no. they should not be paid. i feel very strongly about that. i do know that we still have a magnificent higher education system. whatever we say about the rest of the world, we are preparing those scientists, and no one can replace the great researchers. >> i want to get another break in here.

that was interesting. i think we could have a debate on that for an hour. we are going to take a quick break. we'll talk about republican politics before we end this hour. we'll come back right after this. is. university of phoenix is proud university of phoenix is proud hey, did you evertion nation" finish last month's invoices? to sponsor "education nation" sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business. ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ]

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in our final moments i want to talk about political news. some developments this weekend. the florida straw poll showed her man cain on top of the republican field. rick perry the second place. michigan straw poll, mitt romney on top and perry coming in second. bill bennett, a disappointing showing for perry, the debate this week as well. how do you see the race on the republican side? >> i don't see what happens. i think it's suddenly up for grabs. i think you'll see more talk about other people getting in. that's what i think? do you think chris christie is a viable option? >> we say that. i may try paul ryan again. i'm part of that team. we'll see. perry has got to perform better. people talked about this thing being too long and we have too many debates. it has an effect. it gives people to take a look. i think it's wide open. >> look at the trend tracker this morning. romney versus perry is on top.

chris christie is a news item, number two. obama highlighting education is three. our press in our press pass conversation we do each week on the blog, we spoke to the communications director, dan fifer. this is what he said about the front-runners on the republican side. >> what i do know, at least of the two front-runners that are running, governor perry and governor romney, they are both tremendous candidates. they are both folks who have adopted positions that are an threat call to what most americans believe. governor perry is someone who has led the tea party. governor romney is being led by the tea party. >> donna shalala, you worked for bill clinton. where do you see president obama now. is he still a front-runner? >> i think he's a frontrunner. there's no question about that.

for those of us who teach politics, it's a lot of fun except it's a serious business. the president has a real race ahead, no matter who the candidate is because of the economy, but i think he's the frontrunner. >> what's the leadership test for him at the moment? >> this is the 50th anniversary of the peace corps this week. the goal of pop ticks is to make a difference. i hope they see this election as a challenge to inspire the american people not to build american government but to inspire the american people to take some ownership themselves of their future. americans are hungry. kids are hungry. they want to grow up in a diverse and successful world. they want to be contributors to their community. neither political side has quite mastered the art of asking. >> i'm going to make that the last word. we are out of time. thank you all very much. before we go, you can watch continuing coverage of nbc's

education nation all week-long right here on nbc as well as msnbc. that's all for today. we'll be back next week. in washington, if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." well, good afternoon. welcome. this is education nation. i am brian williams.