>> in case you missed it at the top of the show, mark haleprin doing a live report on chris christie's speech from the laboratory of delta flight 226 somewhere over colorado. mark haleprin never stops reporting. "morning joe" starts right now. i say this from the bottom of my heart for my daughter who is right here and my grandchildren at home. i know new jersey needs you, but i really implore you, i really do, i mean this with all my heart. we can't wait another four years to 2016. and i -- i really implore you to -- as a citizen of this country to please, sir, to reconsider. >> i hear exactly what you're saying and i feel the passion with which you say it. and it touches me.

because i could tell you, i'm just a kid from jersey who feels like i'm the luckiest guy in the world to have the opportunity that i have to be the governor of my state. that heart felt message you gave me is also not a reason for me to do it. that reason has to reside inside me. and so that's what i've said all along. is i know without ever having met president reagan that he must have felt deeply in his heart that he was called to that moment to lead our country. and so my answer to you is just this. i thank you for what you're saying and i take it in and i'm listening to every word of it and feeling it too. >> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, september 28th. live look at time square. with us onset, we have the host of cnbc's "mad money," jim

cramer. we also have nicole wallace. nicole is the author of a new novel -- >> another one. >> "it's classified." "it's classified," seriously, she's got a lot going on. another good one. >> am i the dog in it? >> not this time. you come back in the second book even bigger and better. >> oh, i love the way you said that. >> okay. i'll be reading that. well -- >> we've got a lot of stuff going on. chris christie, of course, last night. and we're going to get to that -- >> get more highlights to the speech. a speech the country needed to hear from someone. >> no, it's a great speech. also, of course, willie geist today game 162, and then the american league -- >> no, it's the final game. boys across america, girls that love baseball.

that 162nd game, the last game played today. it's the last game of the season in this -- but anyway. the red sox. >> we're with ya. >> highs for the wild card, they stepped up one game left, tied, and then in the national league, the braves, the team of my youth. >> the braves are challenging the red sox in the meltdown. >> i actually think the braves' meltdown, seriously, is worse than the red sox. >> i watched it last night. it was kind of extraordinary. a game with the phillies. the phillies need to lose this game. >> right. st. louis, the drama also comes in the other games where you have the new york yankees throwing every game to the rays to keep the red sox down. but also, you have the astros up 5-0 against st. louis. they're going to blow another chance and then they storm like that.

>> i've got to say, this is amazing. i've been following baseball since i was 4 years old. it will the biggest collapse in the history of 120 years of major league baseball. they send their best pitchers to the mound, 14-0, against the orioles. that's almost impossible. never lost to the orioles. on the other hand, the braves have their best guy, it has to be said. going against the yankees. >> listen to this last night, here's the storybook, willie. we'll do sports. a catcher from yale, third string, hits a home run, third string catcher -- just may have saved the red sox season. >> they go to the playoffs, his

name might be a little piece of red sox history. pitchers and catchers report eight months ago, it comes down to one day here. >> it is -- >> you're not worried? >> i'm not worried. >> you should be worried. >> i love them. >> jim cramer, this is a nightmare. for small business owners -- >> health insurance goes up 9%. of course, everybody's blaming everybody. the insurers are blaming obama's health care plan, the democrats are blaming the health care insurers. all i know is this, if you're a small business owner, health care goes up 10% during the great recession, you're either going to stop hiring people, or you're going to shut it down. >> any other plans that have come out to make it so people want to hire. every one of the health care analysts on wall street told you

raising numbers dramatically on these companies because of obama care. it was really amazing. it was like washington didn't read any of the wall street research which told you to buy these companies because they're going to be able to raise rates big. this was not a secret. >> and, of course, if you tell a company -- and i'm not saying it was the right thing to do, it was the wrong thing to do. i love the pre-existing conditions. you know, just like i love it to be christmas eve every day of the year. but if you tell insurance companies people with pre-existing conditions have to be covered, you're going to have to cover joe skcarborougscarbor until they're 26, rates are going to go up. and that's only part of what's happening. of course, the president would not have even tackled health care if insurance costs had not exploded. >> i have news on paul ryan talking about it, as well. but the white house will tell you that report looks back and the next one which looks forward will show that health care is

more affordable. >> that would be great. so let's go ahead and get the news. also, i can't wait to talk to jim cramer. he's saying things may be getting better economically. that's exciting. also -- >> it's classified. we won't tell you what nicole wallace is going to talk about because it's classified. >> we're also going to be talking about something -- while america slept, right, while america was sleeping, history was made right here in the studio. much like -- i wonder if the world was sleeping when the guttenberg bible came off the press, or the last two wires were put together and radio started. but this morning, another breakthrough in communication. happened right here at 30 rock. people are going to be talking about it for a long time. today we call it the laugh cam. 100 years from now, what will we be saying about the history you and mark haleprin made? >> thank you, joe. we've been taking calls from museums all morning. they want the footage. >> that's the kind of exhibit --

>> yes. >> this is mark haleprin, he was at chris christie's speech, flying back to california on the red-eye this morning. we got him live on "way too early" in the lavatory somewhere above colorado. yes, he analyzed the christie

speech from the can. >> and most remarkably, he brought along the same lighting effects they had in all three "matrix" movies. with that out of the way, history has been made, let's talk about chris christie in california, and boy, he wowed the crowd. >> yeah, he nailed it. in his highly anticipated speech in california last night, new jersey governor chris christie praised the reagan presidency while criticizing president obama in the speech called real strategy.xceptionalism. we watch a president who once talked about the courage of his convictions, but still has yet found the courage to lead. we watch a congress at war with itself because they're unwilling to leave campaign-style politics

at the capitol's door. the result is a debt ceiling limitation debate that made our democracy appear as if we could no longer effectively govern ourselves. >> a new poll of new jersey voters shows 54% now approve of governor christie's job performance up ten points from may. as for the calls of him to run for president -- >> i want to keep the numbers up. >> his brother said he'd be surprised if he runs. >> said he's not going to run. it'd be the biggest shock of his life. look at the poll numbers. and nicole wallace, chris christie has done big things in new jersey, whether you like them or hate them. again, i always talk about fdr on one side, reagan on another. they dared to do big things, love it or not. he's done big things. and he's got the highest approval rating of any republican governor in america right now. and look at that -- look at the spread. in the bluest of blue states,

that is -- you know what? that's remarkable. and i would be saying -- by the way, we say the same thing about andrew cuomo in a blue, blue state. but andrew cuomo and chris christie are defying political gravity right now. >> and by doing the right thing, they're reaping political benefits. and this is where everyone in washington has it all mixed up. they are suffering the political consequences of doing all the wrong things. and, look, governor christie is remarkable. i don't know that what he's doing and the way he's doing it can be replicated exactly by anybody in washington. you know, perhaps by this president, perhaps this president could tackle things in the way that governor christie does and have some success. but he's in a league of his own. unfortunately, he is one of one. there are not a slew of other people that rise to his level of

being able to articulate a fence of american exceptionalism that isn't a political bludgeon. there is nobody else who can articulate capitalism that doesn't suggest winners and losers. and there is nobody who can indict the right and left with credibility and without looking down their nose at their own party. nobody. >> i don't want to oversimplify this formula for success, but it is a simple formula for success. it's courage. it's courage. that's what washington has not had in a long time. and that's what, you know, we've been pushing the president for 2 1/2 years to show the courage to do the big things. and -- >> and -- >> yeah, and defined it. i want to be careful here. but the big things on entitlements, to do the big things on tax reforms. and we've said it here, just so people at home aren't saying

that's the republican attacking of the democrats. there's a lot of times where i'm saying, no, you stare down the republican congress, you destroy them if you have to get these big items done. if they're going to demagogue you on medicare, take them to the mat, destroy them, win the election. >> there's also something else at work in the quick jump he's had at the polls. we've seen a kinder, less personal christie in the last two months. he was on the attack to get the budget done. ever since then, he's stopped singling out individual people, stopped being a bully. he's heard that perhaps he overstepped. he's moved back a little in the personal rhetoric, and now he's loved. >> who does that remind you of, mika? >> scott walker. >> yeah. same thing happened with scott walker. >> that's what you do when you become governor of a state. you evolve, you learn, you work with people. we were talking to mitt romney who we're going to be showing on later in the show to talks about

why he thinks he should be president. and he says when he was governor he worked with people. he met with democrats, he met with them behind the scenes and most of it was done behind the scenes. you get a feeling this guy could break some backs behind the scenes, you know. >> but -- >> he's a democratic machine. >> he got historic budget passed in new jersey by doing business with democratic leaders. all democratic leaders dealing with a democratic machine. >> that's who loathed him, by the way. he worked with them to get something done. you watch him last night and you have to say it's a shame for the country if he doesn't run. that's a guy who could challenge president obama on the issues without calling him names, without threatening the chairman of the federal reserve. he would be a guy on that republican stage who would offer a counterbalance to president obama. but you have to wonder, what's going to tip his feeling about getting into the race? he said last night, it has to

live within him. if it doesn't live within him today, he's only got about a week or two to get it to live within him. >> and my feeling about him, he'd be a strong candidate who would raise the conversation between both candidates and perhaps inspire president obama as a candidate to rise to the level, as well. >> what do you think he would do? >> very clearly on the other side of this, i want a real fight, i don't want a crazy person on the republican side. >> you're not going to get it. >> we're going to read from your piece -- >> people forget. he was an unbelievably great white collar prosecutor with an amazing record. we hate the bankers in this country who stole from us. he wanted to pursue them and put them in jail. i had the privilege of testifying with him in a white collar case where he called me endlessly to say you must make a stand against these corrupt bankers and cfos. this guy could be a powerful politician people could love. >> it's not going to happen, though. >> nicole wallace, does the

republican party need him? >> of course we need him. but i think we are entering into this realm of reminds me of dysfunctional dating. so openly and publicly in a way that's becoming pathetic to which is not available to us. and it's getting heart breaking. my phone rang off the hook last night from people on the west coast who watched. and they said finally someone who stands in the reagan library and sounds like he wasn't handed a note card of old reagan quotes. someone who is living and walking the walk. his reagan references weren't handed to him from researcher or speech writer. he's doing them and living that parallel. he embodies everything that we love about reagan. >> and nicole, that's what's so depressing about this republican party. if you listen to what some of these candidates are saying right now, it sounds exactly like what guys like me were saying on the campaign trail in 1994.

but it's almost like they're reading note cards. less taxes, less spending, less regulations. well, listen, i still believe in all of those things, but we're in a brave new world in 2011, we've got to talk about the threat from china, an overextended military, we've got to talk about wall street corruption that actually is a great threat to free market capitalism that we love. and the candidates out there aren't seizing upon that as you listen to chris christie, you're like, oh, wait he's not stuck in 1994. >> and he's not afraid to take compliments to the democrats. they don't feel they've been co- co-oped. they aren't insulted where he takes the stage in a political context. there are no other republican political figures who have the confidence to stand in the arena and say, for example, for every three, four, five, six, seven,

eight, nine in cuts, no one has the confidence to put that on the table. immigration reform will never happen because nobody has the confidence to say i'll do it in a comprehensive way, which is the only way it'll ever happen. you can't just build a fence and forget about everyone here. no one will take on entitlements because no one has the confidence to say, sure, some people are going to have cuts, there will be less social security for you and you because the pot's empty. >> do you know how revolutionary that is? when you stand before a group of people and they say -- this is what i want you to do. and i give an example in my book on gay marriage. 1994, as conservative of a district there was, they would say what about the department of education? shut it down. what about the department of agriculture? shut it down, everybody screams and a guy stands up and says what about those guys in vermont who are getting married -- and i just stop and stare at him and

go, why do you care what guys in vermont are doing? let's have a deal, we don't tell guys in vermont what to do and they don't tell us what to do. >> which is a truly conservative point of view. >> my point is this -- this was the most conservative crowd on the planet, but when you stop and just tell them the truth that they may not have confronted before, they sat there -- >> was there a slow clap? >> they put their torches down and they all started clapping. you've got to -- so if a leader would go up there and say, listen, everybody on the right and left was telling you that we're not going to cut medicare -- if you're under 50, your medicare benefits are going to be cut because i want it to be around when you're around. and we are going to get more revenue in the federal government. and we're going to do it by lowering the tax rate, expanding the base, and make sure billionaires pay their fair share, but also making sure that all americans pay their fair share.

hey, i mean, you tell people the truth, and an amazing thing happens, you see your numbers go up like chris christie's. you win landslide elections. people start voting for you, willie, even when they don't agree with you. >> all that said, we agree he'd be a good candidate for the republican party. why at the end of the day will he not do it? >> because he is responsible enough to know that he has not been in elected office for even two years. and i will just to be blunt. i wish president obama had shown this same restraint. because i think after a term in the united states senate, president obama would have been a much better president than he is now. >> will someone take him on as vice president in order to train him for the next election? >> i think it'd be great. >> everybody's talking about marco rubio -- >> no. >> if chris christie doesn't run, he'd be a great vice president. >> the role that biden has had.

>> which is engaged. >> in the legislative process. >> if you're given the choice of marco rubio or chris christie, love marco, but you're going to -- >> imagine the debates and the campaign? it'd be amazing. >> coming up, mitt romney, also sting will be here onset. up next, the top stories from the politico playbook. but first, todd santos with a check on the forecast. hey, good morning, everyone. quick look out towards the tropics, considering ophelia has made a comeback. last week it was a tropical storm, right now a tropical depression, moving off toward the northwest around 3 miles per hour. expected to become a tropical storm if not a hurricane again over the next couple of days. need to look out for squally weather. bermuda over the next couple of days, looking safe from that one. another swirl there, or the same swirl, been here for a good week or so across the great lakes, still showers around chicago, showers moving into washington, d.c. right now, new york city likely to deal with some of these on and off throughout the day.

we'll take a look at some of those coming up. for now, you're watching "morning joe." [ woman ] my grocery bill isn't wasteful spending.

[ woman ] my heart medication isn't some political game. [ man ] our retirement isn't a simple budget line item. [ man ] i worked hard. i paid into my medicare. [ man ] and i earned my social security. [ woman ] now, instead of cutting waste and loopholes, washington wants to cut our benefits? that wasn't the agreement. [ male announcer ] join the members of aarp and tell washington to stop cuts to our medicare and social security benefits.

the first fella visited silicon valley hosted by the company linkedin, whatever that is. >> we connect hundreds of millions of people ultimately around the world by connecting talent with opportunity. >> oh, is that what linkedin is? i thought it was an e-mail inbox flooding service whose sole purpose in life was to remind me that a guy in high school wanted me to join linkedin -- >> stewart nailed it right there. 12 of those linkedin every day from people i've never heard of. >> no, thank you. >> all right.

>> did you get the latest? 65% off hair laser removal if i act now. >> i don't want to hear anything else. >> let's take a look at the morning papers, shall we? there are new details this morning on the financial of solyndra. the company went bankrupt after receiving money from the obama administration. according to sources cited, the company had such deep financial trouble in 2010, it defaulted on the loan. the energy department ultimately restructured the loan agreement to help keep the company afloat and solyndra continued to borrow money. republicans have accused the obama administration of rushing the loan guarantee for political reasons. e-mails have also surfaced showing administration officials may have ignored warning signs about the company's health. >> obviously they did. >> yeah. >> if the company was going

belly up. >> there are many utility companies. this is part of the dysfunctional part of the presidency. many would tell you, the price of solar panels is coming down, you don't need to do this. david crane, probably the biggest, most thoughtful utility executive came on my show and said, why did they do this? it was not practical. so from the day that it was commissioned, the greens are so powerful in our government right now that they override any of the desire of anyone in private industry to work with them. >> and so here's something from our parade of papers. in the "chattanooga times," the number of students applying to charter schools is on the rise. a recently changed tennessee law now allows students to attend charter schools regardless of their home school's academic standing. we're going to be speaking with the founder of the harlem school academy. let's go to willie now. >> patrick gaven waiting for us in d.c. hey, patrick. >> good morning.

i'm sorry to bring the mark haleprin substitute run on the politico playbook to an end. >> i don't know if you saw earlier, he was busy in the lavatory of a delta flight. he skyped in. it was remarkable television. you guys were reporting that michele bauchmann's campaign is going all in in iowa. they think that's their only chance. what do you think? >> yeah, you hit on this yesterday. the playbook of michele bauchmann and rick santorum. she has kind of denied that iowa is a must-win. in fact, on a radio interview on monday, the internal strategy presentation, they're very much recognizing it is a must-win state. if she wins iowa, they're going to kind of skip new hampshire, go to south carolina. obviously interested in iowa, rick santorum. he's saying his campaign is very much courting a lot of her iowa activists. and he's saying a lot of the iowa activists are interested in him. i don't think rick santorum is a

major player in this field. i think he hopes if he can do well there, he can hopefully be taken more seriously by the ultimate winner and be thrown some bones here and there, or at least have his supporters courted and raise his profile in the campaign. >> despite what the bauchman campaign says, her drop has been remarkable after she won the iowa straw poll in mid-august, she's polling down in single digits. not much of a player anymore. what happened? >> well, i think what happened is she sort of focused all of her eggs in that one basket. and it's hard to see how she's going to make this new strategy of iowa, skip new hampshire, go to south carolina work. she didn't get a lot of buzz out of that iowa straw poll. it gave her a couple of days of good press. but that has not translated into increase showings in south carolina polls, new hampshire polls. so for her to think this is going to snowball. so far that snowball, at least out of the iowa straw poll has not done what she wanted to do. and her debate performances have not helped either.

>> patrick gavin, with a look inside the political playbook. thank you. >> thank you, guys. coming up next, the red sox fight off the september collapse of the ages. the rays heading into the final game of the season. we'll have the full highlights of last night's games ahead. coming up, rick perry has struggled at times to express himself during the gop debate i think it's fair to say. >> no doubt. >> someone out there on the interweb is helping us sort out his words. >> i cannot wait for a medieval cookie, cinabon and save a pretzel for the gas jets. [ male announcer ] you've climbed a few mountains during your time.

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34 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." a top official in the iranian navy raised the prospect yesterday of sending his country's warships close to the east coast of the u.s. >> oh, really? >> yeah. >> oh really? you really think you want to do that? good luck with that. >> the admiral was quoted by iranian media saying like the arrogant powers that are present near our maritime borders, we will also have a powerful

presence close to american marine borders. this over a proposed defense deal between nato and turkey. shortly after the fall of plo mubarak this spring, the u.s. state department of defense has had no comment so far. >> tell you what, there's a country that is beating back against the tides of history. it actually started in iran. and they crushed the protesters back in '09. a story in the "new york times" about how they're siding with assad because they fear the future. but they're in the minority. the arab spring's spreading and, iran, i would be shocked if this regime's in power three years from now. >> time now for sports with willie. >> i always want to do hard news

and you're always, let's talk about sports. there are some of us that care a little bit more about what's going on in the world than mere sports, but my god, those red sox last night. >> they were good last night. >> they weren't, but they won. >> four teams across the major leagues. rays and red sox tied for the final playoff spot. rays taking on the yankees at home in tampa bay. actually in st. pete. rays in a jam, no outs, look at this, russell martin grounds to third, steps on the bag, five, four, three -- that's what happens when your catcher is running. >> that's what happens with the yankees. >> then the bottom of the seventh with two men on, tampa bay, line drive home run into right field, rays beat the yankees, 5-3. keeping the heat on the red sox. >> a triple play. >> tampa's win, the red sox have to win to stay in a tie for the wild card. top of the third, jacoby els

bury is on fire. >> his numbers, he's got 33 home runs, i think his average is like 3.23, not that i'm counting. >> here's the rookie catcher out of yale. a three-run home run to left, a huge home run, his first major league home run, one of two he hit in the game. red sox have an 8-6 lead in the ninth. things get interesting. two batters later, vlad guerrero puts a tieing run on base with a single to left. matt grounds out to the catcher. so now the tieing run is on second, and there are two outs. running it 3-2 to adam jones. jones grounds out to third base. that ends the game, and the red sox escape with an 8-7 win that they had to have. so one game left in the season. there it is. boston and tampa bay tied for the wild card lead. tonight john lester goes for boston, david price will take

them out against the yankees. i'm sorry to report, joe, that gerardi is deciding between two guys i've never heard of. >> he's a pig. a total pig. >> they're starting joe blanton for the first time. >> i'm joking about gerardi. i would not have played as many -- >> playi ining everybody. >> you know what? even though i would love them to actually win a game, i actually respect him a lot because he's been playing tough till the end. the triple play, a fluke. >> oh, killer. >> at that point, because i was watching both games because i have nothing else to do this week, when you see that triple play you're like, you know what? the cards aren't stacked. you can't blame it on him. >> you've got a one-game playoff in tampa tomorrow. >> i don't even want to go there.

>> what about the national league? freefall dropping 9 of their last 11 games. last night at home against the phillies in the fifth. phillies destroy the braves. this is hard to watch. 7-1, the braves have fallen all the way back to the st. louis cardinals. you have to give credit. they played great in september. 13-6, they're tied, one-game playoffs in both leagues. >> we'll see what happens. has the team ever -- obviously no team has ever stumbled in playoffs as badly as the braves and sox. can you think of a team that stumbled into the playoffs after a horrific september and recovered? >> it's hard to do. you can't turn the switch. >> i think they can. they will. >> even the '78 red sox. they've played well later in the season and just lost the playoff game. >> the must-read opinion pages. we'll be right back.

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in the first year or so, we spent a lot of time just doing the right thing. and not worrying about selling what we were doing. and i think that the more you're in this office, the more you have to say to yourself that telling a story to the american people is just as important as the actual policies you're implementing. >> it's 43 past the hour -- >> telling a story is as important as passing legislation. i don't know i would go that far. but nicole, what do you think about what the president just said there? >> i often like what the president says. i think his problem is in the execution. i mean, i think he has a wonderful way with words.

i think that's how he's won, i think that's how he kept the support he has. but i think the problem is his actions and his ability to knit together anything that makes sense to us in our lives is completely falling apart. >> i do think that one of the blind spots of this administration for a couple of years was their inability to grasp the theatrics of the job. and we talked about that here. >> that's fair. >> and it sounds like almost three years in he's finally admitted that fact. that the narrative, the theatrics, moving the country along with you is an important part of that job. >> and he's been doing that. and the question is, how do we get people to come back and listen again? because i even noticed last week there was a jobs speech in front of the bridge, there was the rose garden, and they were great, and yet around this table, i still felt like people hadn't listened to it. >> when you lose the ability to

speak with credibility on any issue -- and i fear that he has lost the ability to speak with credibility on the economy, it's devastating. very difficult to get it back without admitting some bundle of mistakes or errors or misjudgments. >> having said that, it depends on who his opponent is, and exactly what happens with the economy. and i think there is a possibility he has time. i'm reading from politico. it's from your piece. it's really good called "crazy never wins." and it has a lot to do with what we've just seen happening with rick perry, michele bauchmann, and others. and you say this, despite the crop of nutty right-wing candidates that sprout up in gop presidential fields every four years, despite the gasps and growls that regularly rise aimed at extremists who are hijacking the republican party in ways that past gop extremists would never have dreamed of hijacking the party, predicting the rise

of ronald reagan's ghost and nomination of an unelectable candidate. in the end, this political chatter always proves to signify nothing. >> in the end, crazy never wins. despite the fact that all the nuts on the far right want you to believe that crazy wins. and the leftists in the media want you to believe that the republican party -- this time, i know we call them crazy every four years, but this time they're really crazy. look at michele bauchmann, look at rick perry, look at all these people that never win in the end, nicole, they never win. let me say it again. they never win. this is a party that is nominated in my lifetime, gerald ford, bob dole, john mccain, george h.w. bush, and two conservative, conservative presidents, ronald reagan and george w. bush who ran as a

conservative, didn't govern as one. crazy doesn't win? you don't get through the midwest primaries, you get a big pop in iowa, and then they nail you in the end. >> which doesn't mean that conservatives don't win. >> no! >> i think conservatives who can articulate a case, who can appeal to our intellectual instincts can win. >> no, look, i'm not talking about ideology here. i'm talking about main street conservatives that do believe in smaller government and less taxes can win. you know, they do win at the end of the day. >> you're talking ultimately and the idea of the piece came up on the show two days ago when you were talking about your dad and how they pick candidates. guys like my dad do not gamble on candidates like michele bauchmann or newt gingrich. guys like my dad tune out politicians who compare opponents to joseph stalin. and guys like my dad don't cozy up to texas governors who brag about seceding from the union or

calling social security unconstitutional. that's why crazy never wins. it never comes close. regardless of what is written about the republican party every four years by northeast elites or right-wing nuts, guys like my father still hold the gop's fate in their hands. >> in their conservative hands. because my dad, jim cramer, was a conservative's conservative. he worshipped ronald reagan and richard nixon. given the choice between pat buchanan or bob dole. he's a middle class guy with middle class values who wants to keep it -- he's going to vote for bob dole every time, even if the republican party loses. >> when you call the federal reserve chairman a traitor, a man who's committed to doing the right thing, who may be the smartest central banker in the world -- when you call him a traitor, that's crazy. >> a conservative at heart. >> oh, had wants to do the right thing, but we're in a time where the europeans are destroying the

world's economy, and he is trying to show leadership. >> and this is the thing, nicole, that has been so destructive to the republican party. in suburbs, where you win or lose presidential elections. >> and among women. >> for the past five years, the republican party -- well, actually since president obama was elected. you have to say outrageous things to gain the respect of the glenn becks of the world and the rush limbaughs of the world. rush wasn't always this way, by the way. he used to be a conservative's conservative. but now you've got to call people traitors, you've got to go -- you've got to be, you know -- rick perry, for instance. the things he says are just outrageous. bernanke's a traitor, social security is unconstitutional, americans shouldn't elect their senators. michele bauchmann saying you've

got to be armed and dangerous. if you speak out as a conservative against somebody that is hurting the conservative cause, suddenly in this brave new crazy world, you're not a real conservative. it's garbage. >> you and i both ended up in the cross hairs. but i think even rush limbaugh would agree with your father that they're not mutually exclusive. an intellectual principle conservative who stands on his values but can also talk to the entire country is exactly what we need. >> a chris christie. >> okay. coming up next hour, presidential candidate mitt romney -- >> or hold on a second. or a jeb bush, or a paul ryan. they're out there. you don't have to be crazy. you can be conservative to win. >> be smart, don't have to be crazy. in fact, unless you're in "it's classified," you are. ♪ the goose drank wine ♪ the monkey chew tobacco on the streetcar line ♪ ♪

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oh, it's time. >> it's time. >> wait -- >> way to go. >> wow. >> time for news you can't use. >> i'm thrown off. >> some -- some -- hello. rick perry had some trouble expressing himself during the debate the other night. >> no, you guys are being mean. >> the mitt romney that was on the side of against the second amendment before he was for the second amendment.

was it before he was before the social programs from the standpoint of he was far standing up for roe versus wade. before he was against roe versus wade, he was for race to the top. he's for obama care and now he's against it. >> you know, willie -- >> it's not fair. >> that's not real. >> that's not real. >> clean all the way through. >> that was real. >> that was edited? >> no, that was real. >> he's ramping up. >> actually, half way through that clip, mika said to me. is it? >> i said, no, that's real. >> this one's not real. this is called bad lip reading.com, and they dub over actual speeches.

in this case, rick perry, placing in their own words that fits what's being said. >> tuna, eggs, doritos, cheesecake, tomale, see ya. wash that smile off. now i'm going to tell you something, now sit down. what's good is to get these goats for our computer industry. yeah, yeah. i cannot wait for a medieval cookie, cinnabon, hot yellow kool-aid and save a pretzel for the gas jets. >> stop it. all of you! >> first of all, they don't need to do it. that was a waste of work. that was a waste of work.

>> i disagree. >> you can always take something bad and make it much, much worse. >> well, that's true. >> still ahead, joe and mika sit down with mitt romney. also sting will be here. >> oh, man, that's huge. >> we'll be right back. [ woman ] my grocery bill isn't wasteful spending. [ woman ] my heart medication isn't some political game. [ man ] our retirement isn't a simple budget line item. [ man ] i worked hard. i paid into my medicare. [ man ] and i earned my social security. [ woman ] now, instead of cutting waste and loopholes, washington wants to cut our benefits? that wasn't the agreement. [ male announcer ] join the members of aarp and tell washington to stop cuts to our medicare and social security benefits.

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policies are to blame for much of what is wrong with health care today. and the solution is clear. we need to transition from an open-ended defined benefit approach of the past to market-oriented, defined contribution reforms that promote choice and competition. >> and welcome back to "morning joe." jim cramer and is still with us, and now at the table, democratic senator from ohio, senator brown. and asking the appropriate question at this time in american history, it's game 162, where is barnicle? >> i'm shocked. i thought he'd be dressed in black and he would be. but he couldn't talk about baseball today. he always gives me flak about baseball. he just couldn't show up because -- >> first of all, let me be -- >> as courageous as he is. >> let me be perfectly clear. he is dressed in black from head to toe, but he's also in baltimore, and he's going to watch.

can you believe it? i'm starting to think you're a huge baseball fan. can you think of any parallels? and t.j., you can show some highlights while we're talking about here. is there any parallel between the socks and braves in the american national league? >> yeah, dewey against truman. >> yeah. only thing i can think of -- >> no baseball team has tanked like this. >> '54 phillies with jim bunning. he pitched every four days and still couldn't pull them in. >> if the sox don't make the playoffs, they'll have bested the phillies for the biggest collapse ever. >> well, barnicle, is he going to retire then? >> no, barnicle will remain bitter. barnicle's going to been through -- i won't say much worse. he got through '78, he got through '86, if you can get through 1986, you can get

through anything. >> speaking of barnicle, she wasn't really complaining, but she said no whining. and barnicle has a job like this, he should quit whining. >> actually, barnicle, you make one mistake about barnicle's life, he doesn't actually even have a job. he'll be the first to tell you his wife puts him on an allowance. >> and asked us to let him sit here. >> she doesn't dress him, but ann asks if we'll let him sit on the set and he watches baseball games. >> keep him busy. >> when you introduce nicole, you have to introduce her as the author of "it's classified." >> the book that will change the way you think about everything. >> give me two lines on this book, nicole. >> it's about what happens to washington in pursuit of the truth of the country's vice president. she has ascended to the presidency who is hiding a

debilitating mental illness. >> my gosh, that sounds like -- well, anyway. i can't wait to read that. >> thank you. >> sign it for me. >> a female vice presidential candidate hiding a mental illness, not that well, though. >> crazy never wins. >> crazy never wins. the "new york times," 9% growth, seems to me, a lot of people are going to try to be partisan about this, but it seems to me you can take a pound of flesh out of the insurance companies and a pound of flesh out of some people that put together some plans that didn't make a lot of -- that we knew would cause this to happen. >> it's totally true. but the insurance companies -- >> they're making too much money because their medical loss ratio has dropped dramatically because people aren't going for more health care because they can't afford what's left that they have to pay. this was outrageous. these companies are -- making too much money. >> a 9% growth, we're talking

about the kaiser study, the obama administration says it will show reduction in costs in the future. but right now, 9% increases on average in 2010. the rich get richer here. >> well, look at the business plan on the insurance industry. and i don't fault any one company because they compete with each other. but they hire a bunch of bureaucrats on the front end so people can't buy insurance, exclusions for pre-existing conditions. then they hire a bunch of bureaucrats on the other end for those who have insurance to deny claims. and those kind of business plans drive up costs and second, people don't get what they thought -- >> so it's a dysfunctional system. >> it's like some airplane companies. they don't have airplane -- people in airplanes because they have accountants on the front end and the back end. same with insurance companies, they don't have doctors running those companies. >> the good news is n the health care bill, this is something a lot of people in both parties worked on were able to get a lot of delivery reforms in the legislation that will begin to

take effect. although so much of this is inefficient on delivery of health care services. and we spend so much on health insurance and health care in this country. and a big part of that is the inefficiency of health care. >> senator, you are in a swing state, the swing states of all swing states. i know you talk to republicans as well as democrats alike. and you know what you hear from a republican, a republican's going to tell you, you know, our health care system's too inefficient, we spend too much money. we have to have more market forces in health care. i hear the same thing from democrats who say the same thing, it doesn't make sense for us to have this inefficient system where it's not about wellness, it's about testing, it's about profit. isn't there some compromise that republicans and democrats can come together on the next time we have to tackle health care reform? >> i think you'll see some of that. real quickly, there was in

mansfield, ohio, in my hometown, two doctors started a clinic in the inner city and they look at two zip codes. poor, african-american zip code, and a poor white zip code and they look at the birthrate three times the national average. they hired community workers, high school graduates, sent them out into these communities getting people to the doctor, getting people to eat better. finding the pregnant women, they dropped the low baby birthrate to just below the national average in just a few years. creating 60 healthier children that you would have had otherwise. medicaid only paid for the doctors visits, they had to raise private money for the rest. those kinds of things are in the health care bill to begin to cut costs in that way that everyone can agree on. and we took some 150 republican amendments, i remember, during the health care mark-up and the

health committee, and some of them were about delivery reform. so my point is, there are a lot of those things in the bill we've passed that will becoming law in the years and months ahead. and i think we'll begin to squeeze a lot of these excessive costs. people leaving hospitals, and the first 30 days out of the hospital, they don't comply with their meds, don't go to the doctor, don't do the kinds of things they need to do. with nutrition, they end up back in the hospital helping in that next 30 days with a caseworker can save a lot of money. and it's not an ideological thing. >> it's incredibly complicated. obviously if this was easy, it would have been done a long time ago by others who have tried. this article's on the front page of the "new york times." the report done by the nonprofit kaiser family foundation has a response from the white house. which defended the laws saying the kaiser report is informative, but it's a look backwards. when we look to the future, we

know that affordable care act will help make insurance more affordable for families and businesses across the country. >> jim cramer, though, we hope, we hope, we don't know. >> no, we don't. it used to be tremendous competition over plans. we allowed a series of mergers we shouldn't have. we used to be able to play these off each other. >> i've got to ask this question. we asked it during the health care debate. for the life of me, i have never heard anybody explain why insurance companies are not -- are immune to anti-trust laws. >> it's incredible. >> no, this is like one of the most profitable industries in america! they are making so much money and i've got no problem making so much money if you're apple, competing in the marketplace. but why pass an exclusion to anti-trust laws that were geared specifically for this type of situation? >> it's crazy. when you start a business, start

hiring, say more than 100 employees, you want to go to these guys and pit them and say, listen, you can do better than the other guy. that game's over. >> why? >> stuck. >> why? why are they protected these insurance companies? again, you know, the insurance companies can say we're going to raise 10% this next year. >> well, there were efforts to do it in the health care bill -- >> there's nothing you can do. why is there an anti-trust exclusion? >> i don't know the history of why there was initially, but i know in the health care bill -- >> back in the '40s. >> who stood in the way? >> well, who do you think? >> don't just say the republicans because that's simplistic. no, no, no! i want to go beyond ideology. i wish we could just -- >> you interrupted i was going to say insurance company lobbyists with almost all of the republicans and a handful of democrats. so my party is guilty in not repealing that. but we got zero help from

republicans in repealing that exemption. so it's the same old story. >> no help from susan collins, no help from olympia snow? >> no, not enough. >> the president wanted to repeal it. >> was he fighting hard for it? >> on some things -- >> probably not hard enough. >> probably not. >> fair. >> how do we get this message to americans that too many people in washington, d.c. for allowing insurance companies, health insurance companies to have an exclusion that is costing america trillions of dollars over the next decade? >> you keep talking about it on this show until congress quits coming to insurance company pressures on this. >> i think a lot of -- >> independents in ohio? >> yeah, i think a lot of things appeal to republican voters. in the end -- i read your piece you wrote, that they just had on the air. and, you know, in the end, the republican party and the presidential race is going to go to their candidate that the

largest corporations in america are comfortable with. in the end, that's what they do. you implicitly said that. >> no, i didn't implicitly say that. i said people who are crazy don't win. and like rick perry -- but to say social security's unconstitutional -- >> but in the end -- >> you're making my dad a corporate pig! >> no, no -- i made you a corporate pig. >> no, i'm saying in the end corporate interests and the republican party push away those who are sort of crazy, the right-wing nuts. the winner's corporations, whether it's your dad -- and the funding of the campaign it's corporations, and they have such influence with insurance issues, just like they do with the drug companies. >> i don't want to make complex issues like this ideological. but since you're pointing to the republican party. i can say it wasn't a republican president that was quietly striking deals with big pharmaceutical companies or big

hospital interest behind the scenes to undercut real reforms in health care legislation. so if -- if politicians are bought up by corporations in washington, d.c., this is not a false equivalency because we both know it's politicians on both sides. >> i think the most obvious issue in that way is what this government does on trade policy. presidents through both parti parties -- obama's been slightly better than bush on it, but only slightly better on trade. continued to sell out of american manufacturing. i'm going to the flood and leading the bill next monday on china currency where we continue to lose ground to china because they don't play fair. yet, corporate interests with most republicans and enough democrats, including sometimes administrations stand in the way of doing the right thing and preserving american manufacturing. >> i'm almost afraid to ask you this because it probably means put all republicans in cages. but what's on your lapel?

>> it's a canary in a bird cage, signifies the mine workers hundreds of years ago, he had no union strong enough or government -- >> can we get a close-up of this lapel pin? >> a baby born in this country 100 years ago lived about 45 years old because of medicare and social security and safe drinking water and civil rights and women's rights that have given people in this society a much better shot at the middle class. and that's what that signifies. >> thank you show much for being on the show. >> go brown. >> come back. >> go brown. browns are looking pretty good. >> thanks for not bringing up the indians. >> coming up next -- >> better than expected. we have an exclusive interview with former governor mitt romney. what he says is the true reason he's running for president. and later, sting will be with us here onset. stay with us, "morning joe" returns when we come back. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894,

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welcome back to "morning joe."

steady as you go, could be the way to describe mitt romney and his presidential candidacy. amid all the noise about chris christie, rick perry, and others, mitt romney remains strong at the top of the pack. we sat down for an exclusive interview with the former governor. >> mitt romney, what a fascinating year it has been as you just keep on marching straightforward. >> keep on keeping on. is that a strategy in a way? >> sarah palin rises up, falls, michele bauchmann rises up, falls, rick perry rises up, falling -- wait, what's going on? >> well, at a stage like this, my view is you just express what you believe, talk about the issues you care about, hopefully people will come to you in the final analysis. but what happens on the part of other people is out of our control. they do what they're going to do, keep your head down, talk about the issues you care about, hope the other guys stumble, if they don't, that's the nature of

politics. >> how frustrating is it for you that -- as you know we're all tough critics around this table, but haleprin, heileman, we give you as for your performance, and then the next day they're talking about somebody else. rick perry may get in the race and now the flavor of the week, chris christie may get into the race. does that frustrate you? >> no, that's your business. you've got to find some excitement, got to have some intrigue. >> we're not the ones flying chris christie to the reagan library. >> that's part of his business, trying to support his campaign for reelection, for his agenda in new jersey. and who knows, maybe he decides to get in. but i can't control what other folks are going to do. i can control what i'm going to do. and i can get a quick bump in the polls by saying outrageous things, but in the final analysis, i think people will move toward the person who will get the economy going again and

who understands the challenges that america faces and knows how to deal with those. >> i want to read you something that bill kristol wrote after the last debate which it was a situation that looked like rick perry threw up on himself. but no front runner in a presidential field has ever, we imagine, had as weak a showing as rick perry. it was close to disqualifying two hours for him. and mitt romney, when as all we said and done is could rise to the occasion as president or not. not exactly a going endorsement of you. a little tougher on rick perry, but there's still sort of this view that republicans are trying to figure out whether they want to buy you and take you off the lot, or not. >> try to get beyond that. >> i'll talk about my passion for this country.

my concern that we're in an extraordinarily critical time in america's history, and i have the answers for what it takes to get us back to restore the greatness that has always been america. and our president may be a nice guy, but our president doesn't have a clue when it comes to getting this economy going again. basically he doesn't understand how the private sector works. how it is that entrepreneurs decide to invest their life savings, no, you hire people if you have customers. the president doesn't understand what makes the american economy go. i do. i spent my life in the american economy. i know what it takes to get our nation so competitive that we can create jobs again. >> we've heard that. we've heard that from so many business people. i know you have too. but we've heard it from democrats who supported the president, who went to the white house, would have a talk with the president who would say, why don't you guys just hire people?

and they would sit there dumbfounded. and they would say the same thing you said. there's got to be demand out there. the question is, what do you do as a conservative president who believes in limited government, if you do, to actually drive demand? >> very simple. you make america the most attractive place in the world for entrepreneurs, for innovato innovators, for investors. that's what got us going in the first place. you say, all right, our company, our employer tax rates are competitive globally. we're going to have regulators and regulations encourage the private sector rather than crush it. we're going to have trade policies that open markets for america, we're going to clamp down in china when they cheat. we're going to have energy policies that give us energy independence. we're investing here. we're going to keep the nlrb from penalizing businesses. >> you talked about corporate taxes, ge pay 0% tax rate? >> if they're earning their money outside the country because they moved their jobs outside the country, that's what

the result will be. i want them to pay u.s. taxes by saying, you know what? america's a good place to build a factory, to hire people. there's no reason why we can't be the jobs capital of the world. >> should warren buffett's tax rate be lower than his secretary? >> i doubt his tax rate is lower than his secretary. >> finish this thought. >> but i can tell you this, i don't want to go around and see if we can find someone to scapegoat. and what i'm afraid of with the president's new campaign is it's all about not -- are you better off than you were four years ago, but instead, is there someone we can blame, someone we can attack? can we separate the haves and have nots? >> can you -- could you give him the address, maybe, when you're president if you get elected and maybe you can work out an arrangement where you and the ways and means committee can work specifically to make sure that warren doesn't pay 14% tax rate? >> we actually in massachusetts have a provision for people who want to pay more tax and you can

check off a box that says i don't think i'm paying enough, here's some more. i think we get a couple hundred thousand a year. i don't want to reduce the taxes on the wealthiest 1%, but i don't want to kill job creation either. and i know we say, look, those who are creating businesses and enterprises, you're going to kill job growth. if one priority is to punish highly successful people, then vote for the democrats. if one's priority is to get people working again, vote for me. >> as a candidate, i think it's easy to say, especially in terms of how we fix this economy and the way you describe what you want to do. what i loved is your second presidential campaign and you still have fire in your eyes. having said that. if you were in president obama's position right now, how would you lead differently? in terms of not just getting what you want done, but dealing with people in washington to actually make it happen?

>> i think one of the great challenges the president had was he had never been a leader before. not in the private sector, not in the state legislature, not in the washington legislature. he had not had the experience of working across the aisle, work with people who disagree with you, see if you can find common ground, meet the needs of other people and cobble together something that fits your principle. and as a result, when he came into the white house, he didn't recognize he had to work with republicans as well as democrats. so he did not learn lessons in leadership. i spent my life politically in a state where my legislature was 85% democrat. i had to learn how to find people across the aisle who shared sm ed similar principles views. you're going to have to have republicans and democrats work together. and at a time when we face a crisis we face right now. where on the one side, we could go into a double-dip recession. on the other side, we could have us go into a ten-year slide like

japan experienced. we've got to find a course in the middle which rebuilds america's economy. >> is it fair to say they're not working together right now? republicans and democrats? >> i think the president has failed the test of leadership. it's up to the president to guide and lead congress. he has not done so. instead attacks congress day in and day out. you can't attack someone you've got to work with. you've got to make collaborate. >> when you say we've got to get republicans and democrats to work together. what would you do to make that happen? would you call them up? golf with them? force them to a face-to-face meeting? what would you do. behind the scenes and in front of the cameras to try to get something to actually happen? >> it's all behind the scenes. people know the kind of meetings that happens. it's all behind the scenes. not just in your office, their office. and week after week, not just when you need them, but week after week having conversations about what the country faces and getting to know people.

and understand what's pulling on them, their interests, and understanding how to accommodate those and deal with those not violating your principles, but understanding where the opportunities are. when i was governor of massachusetts, the speaker of the house and the senate president and i got together every week, every monday. we spent time quietly, no reports what came out of the meeting. there was a quiet conversation among people who had a common concern, which was trying to make our state better. >> we were shocked after the midterm elections. the stories started coming out that actually barack obama had not had a face-to-face meeting with mitch mcconnell alone in the white house the two years he'd been president. what do you think that says about barack obama? >> well, i think number one underscores the fact he's never been leader before. two, he thought it was an advantage. but the disadvantage of thinking he didn't need to work with republicans because the legislature was all democrat as he began at the house and senate.

so he thought i don't need the republicans. you always -- as the old line, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. have a personal relationship of trust so when tough times arise, you've already built that relationship. and you know how you can proceed to get people to act in a concerted way. >> so you talk about building a relationship of trust. have you found that with the conservatives? with the republican conservatives yet? >> oh, with some, yeah. with a number of people, sure. i'm delighted with the number of folks supporting my effort. i saw last weekend in the straw poll in michigan, for instance, the majority of tea partiers supported my effort. that's good news for me. i've got the largest -- the plurality of the tea party votes in michigan. that's probably true in new hampshire, as well. and the polls aren't accurate at this stage, but i'm getting good support, and i've got a lot of very conservative folks supporting me and people more towards the middle and across the spectrum. >> you know, eric erickson, red

state, obviously conservative website. eric writes this, and you hear a lot of chattering out there from conservatives who say at the end of the day, it's glaringly clear that romney is not one of us. talking about the conservatives. and he isn't the best candidate for this position. as rick perry said the night before, he's obama-like, but we need something to articulate the case against. he finished by saying romney fired more people than he hired in the private sector. let's start with the last charge first and go back to the bigger question about you and the conservative movement. did you fire more people than you hired in the private sector? >> i'm afraid he's only off by maybe tens of thousands, maybe over 100,000. you just take a number of the businesses we helped start. they were my employees we helped

start. money into the boards i sat on, tens of thousands of net jobs created. our intent in the private sector was to build enterprises to make them successful. sometimes we failed. sometimes we lost jobs and lost our investment. but in every circumstance i can recall, our intent was to try and grow the business. and we invested in some 100 different settings or more. >> right. >> that was our intent, and i'm sure over time people will look at those one by one add up the numbers and see it's a vastly positive -- >> so the bigger question is -- is whether you are "a conservative." romney is not one of us. how do you answer that? >> i'm not sure what he's referring to. but we have to look issue by issue. i standby my positions. i think if we were to ask, which is the more conservative position on immigration? mitt romney's or rick perry's? i think eric would say, well, actually mitt romney's is the more conservative position. with regards to jobs and taxes, which is the more conservative

position? well, i have laid out my 59-step plan to get america working again. i've published it and put it out. you know, i'm happy to describe what i'm in favor of and we'll see what he finally brings forward. >> so tell us about donald trump. he comes on our show a good bit. he's a character, he's a friend. how was lunch with the donald? >> we didn't eat together, but we spent together with a couple of his kids and a couple of my colleagues. and he's always delightful. i enjoy donald trump. >> did he hammer on china? did he constantly say, they're killing us! they're killing us! >> we see eye to eye on china. not only as an economic threat, cultural threat, down the road they're building a very strong military with potentially the intent to dissuade us from sending ships to the south china s sea, military ships. we see them as an economic threat at least. and i think we share some common views in that regard.

>> i want to ask you about afghanistan -- in that debate in june, i'm reading your words that you say. we want to bring our troops home as soon as we possibly can consistent with the word that comes to our generals. >> yeah. >> and i think you got some criticism for that. is that fair to say? or do you feel like you have your own position in terms of when the troops should come home? >> my own position is that you listen to the generals on the ground and receive from them their sense of the right timetable that reduces the risk to our troops -- >> the generals are always going to tell you we need more. >> actually their view is bring the surge troops back in december of '12 rather than september of '12. that was the difference. their view is, the fighting season is going on through december, don't bring the troops home in the middle of the fighting season because that has risk. let them stay an extra three months. the president's move to bring

them home in september of '12 puts our troops at greater risk. and i think it was a calendar set by politics, not by the reality on the ground. i would have, instead, listened to the generals and said bring them home in september of '12. >> at some point, though, isn't it time to just wrap this up in afghanistan? whether or not they feel they need to extend this or not. is there a shelf life to how long we can spend money, but more importantly the men and women who are serving for us there? >> the generals actually concur with the idea that we should bring down the surge troops, and ultimately by 2014, take our footprint -- our large combat footprint out of afghanistan, that's something with which i concur. the real battle between myself and the president was that he's trying to bring home the surge troops during the middle of the fighting season and that, i think, is a mistake. but are we by 2014 at a point where the afghan troops have to take over their own battle for their independence from the

taliban? absolutely. we can't -- we cannot permanently win and hold the independence of another nation from an opposing force like the taliban. the afghan troops will have to do that on their own at some point. certainly we'll have some presence in afghanistan to help them with intelligence and logistics and so forth. but this is going to be an effort that ultimately is secured permanently by the afghan people themselves. >> how is the campaign going on your family? >> you know, my sons can't participate as actively as last time because they've got jobs. so those that have more flexible calendars are able to do a bit more. one, for instance, that's a doctor. you know, he's on call, he just can't take all the time off he used to. but ann's on the road with me. and she's out there campaigning. and by the way, they like her better than me. >> we love her. i need to have some of those pancakes again. because it's gruelling and you

know it is. and i know you have to put on a brave face and are there times when you think, my god, you know, how do i keep this going? what keeps you going? why are you doing this? >> each of the events is energizing. but if there are so many events in a day that get you worn down, that can be tough. why am i in it? it's not the next step of my career. i don't have a political career. in a time like this when our economy is in such distress, not just short-term, but long-term in real distress, that the only way to get it back on track is if someone's willing to take the presidency who understands the economy and understands what it takes to make america comettive, who understands what it takes to have investors and entrepreneurs and innovators say america's the place to invest in growth. i don't know anyone else on the stage i'm debating besides

herman cain who has that experience. i'm the guy at the time that's needed and if you guys agree, terrific, if you don't, that's your right too. >> all right. mitt romney. we'll leave it there. >> very good to see you again. >> good luck on the campaign trail. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪ [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose -- to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance.

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♪ 40 past the hour. boy, it's raining in washington. welcome back to "morning joe" as we take a live look at the white house. quick look at the news, as well. today the u.n. security council will formally consider the bid by palestinian president mahmoud abbas for official state hood recognition. it was last week when president obama stood with israelis against the bid vowing that the u.s. would veto the move during his speech to the u.n. general assembly. the president instead urging both sides to enter into direct negotiations for peace. well, now there are new headaches for the administration as israel announces plans to expand settlements in the west bank. a move that could derail any hope for further peace talks. >> you know what's so fascinating here, though, is there is a silver lining to

this. it was a tough week last week, but you look at abbas, his approval rating -- his popularity has jumped back among the palestinians. and president obama's approval numbers have gone up significantly in israel. which, by the way, all of those things factor into a possibility of a peace plan. if abbas is stronger, that undercuts hamas. >> in a news conference with portugal's foreign minister yesterday, hillary clinton was critical of israel's planned expansion calling it counterproductive to the peace process. >> we have long urged both sides to avoid any kind of action, which could undermine trust. including and perhaps most particularly in jerusalem. our focus must remain on working to convince the parties to return to direct negotiations. because in the absence of direct negotiations, nothing changes on

the ground. if there are negotiations that delineate borders, questions of where anybody builds are settled. >> israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu has repeatedly ruled out freezing the settlement reconstructions. coming up next, one of the most important voices coming out of latin america, best-selling and award-winning author joining us next to discuss his life as an exile. capital one's new cash rewards card

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was forced into exile. he's been one of latin america's leading voices against human rights abuses. ariel is now out with his new book "feeding on dreams." a memoir about his journey as an exile. and it's good to have you. >> very briefly. we want to get into your story. but for americans who don't know or people around the world who don't know what happened in 1973. >> on september 11th, 1973, strangely enough. >> if you can give everybody a brief summary. >> we had a democratly elected president, left wing socialist. >> democratically elected. >> right. >> and he was overthrown in a coup who then reigned in terror for 16 1/2 years. and part of that terror was my own exile. >> the reason you said socialist is because he was a threat to

the united states. they considered him a threat, and the united states was involved in the early 1970s, cia involved -- >> it is one of the very shameful forms of u.s. interventions abroad because this is a country that is supposed to be -- it's my country now. so it is a country that's supposed to be for human rights and democracy. and when you say we want democracy all of the world and then these people elect their own leader, it really is rather hypocritical to say we're going to -- we don't like him, you know, and we're going to get rid of him. >> what's fascinating about your memoir is -- it's not just political. you talk about reconciliation, first of all. >> i do. >> you talk about how hard it is to engage in reconciliation, but how necessary that is at the same time. >> it's very difficult. because when you've been hurt terribly, very damaged as most victims have, two things happen. one is rage, how do you get rid of that rage? because rage is very good for

surviving, but it's not very good for living with. you can't live in rage all the time. >> right. >> on the other hand, reconciliation is very difficult because you need to reach an accord with an enemy who may kill you the next time. you need to find a way of reaching out to that enemy and saying we're both human beings, let's do it -- and i've been trying to do that, and i tried to learn that during my 70 years of exile -- >> you said exile changed you deeply. >> i have regrets because there's a lot of dark secrets in this. i'm sorry -- >> how did exile change you? you said it changed you drastically. >> as i say, i left, i left -- there were things i didn't know about life. i had heard about things. i'd heard about torture and people being killed and heard about being homeless. but i hadn't lived through it. now, i don't desire that to

happen to me every again or anybody ever again. it's a terrible thing, you're ruthless, penniless, you don't know the language. i went to france first and then amsterdam. and then i ended up here in the united states, the country that helped to overthrow the government. but it's my country in some ways. i was brought up as a kid in new york very briefly. so you find a way of turning that into some sort of strength, especially to find some sort of compassion deep inside yourself toward all of humanity. and i think it turned me into a human rights activist, which i wouldn't say i was when i left chile. it's not that i have stopped believing in the need for very radical definite change, but i think the way i understand it is the idea that we can bring together those who disagree on things, if we can, as nelson mandela -- and i gave a lecture in his honor just a year ago -- if we can funnel that idea that there are ways in which we can reach common ground between ourselves and respect our

differences, and that's not an easy thing to do. >> the last 40 years, as you point out, have quite literally been a journey for you, since 1973, buenos aires, amsterdam, then to the united states. who or what were you fleeing from exactly? >> in one sense i was fleeing from a repressive dictatorship that would kill me. and when i did go back to chile, they arrested me, deported me, and then i was beaten up by soldiers, all sorts of small things. and i really insist these are small things to the terrible human rights abuses that happened. but i tell that story as a personal story, what it means and what i learned through that. but i was also in some sense fleeing towards myself let's say fleeing towards the person speaking to you right now. i was trying to find a voice that would allow me to be not dockery nary and not ideological but deeply human with all the complexity. you know, we live in a moment in america, and you probably have said this often, soft extreme

simplification. one of the reasons i like your program is because it is very nuanced. it's also full of fun, which is really interesting. it is. i was going to be on, people saying they'll joke with you all the time. i said, no, you know what, i think we'll have a bit of fun but they'll take me seriously. >> one thing we don't joke ant pinochet, don't joke about torture. >> because that's the only way of getting through. the book is full of humor in that sense. >> so there is synergy on our show today. >> there is. >> because you have -- i guess you reference one of our next guests -- >> yes. >> -- in a chapter on mu mill ti. >> yes. >> you wouldn't believe who that guest is. >> what happens is i was going to send this book "feeding on dreams," you know, to sting and to trudy, his wife, in one or two more days because it was just published yesterday. i hadn't sent it and then i found out he's on this program. it turns out i was the person -- i'd known him and he had been

inspired by some of my books and my poems to write "they dance alone," about the women who disappeared. when we did the amnesty concert in mendoza, when pinochet was still in power, sting asked me to introduce him. they'd been waiting for six or seven hours in very, very bad conditions, 70,000 or 80,000 people in the stadium in men toe sa. i went on and he said i want you to read this poem "don't believe them, don't believe them, don't believe them," so i got on that stadium -- >> oh, dear. >> he's going to get to talk to 80,000 people! did they all weep? >> no, no, no. what happened was very different. they expected sting. so somebody said here is ar yell dorfman. boo, boo. i begin to read the poem, and then boo, boo. get him out of there. i said should i be like jack nicholson and say here's sting!

or keep on going. pinochet han silenced me. 80,000 fans. this is my chance to speak to the youth of chile and say don't believe those people when they tell you you can't change the world. sting came on, he gave me a hug, peter gabriel gave me a hug, and everything was fine except i learned humility. it's much better to speak to three people who really love you than 80,000 who don't. >> listen, we love you. we're glad you came on. we're just excited that you're here as sting. >> ariel dorfman, thank you. >> i dedicate this to trudy and sting right now on the program. >> okay. >> thank you so much. >> "feeding on dreams." you are watching "morning joe." brewed by starbucks.

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that was a ruin i don't know of the lesson in humility moments ago, sting and ariel. we have synergy here. >> we do. >> i see sting coming, and of course we're about to have a big hug, and t.j., our director, who generally -- you know, we say

t.j. sucks, because he goes, now would be a great time to go to break. >> look who's on the show tomorrow. goldie hawn and lindsay buckingham. >> we shall return. >> i like him. sting is next. we'll be right back. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ] ♪ [ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose -- to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman.

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do, and this isn't funny, i mean this with all my heart, we can't wait another four years till 2016. and i really implore you, as a citizen of this country, to please, sir, to reconsider. >> i hear exactly what you're saying, and i feel the passion with which you say it. and it touches me. because i could tell you, i'm just a kid from jersey who feels like i'm the luckiest guy in the world to have the opportunity that i have to be the governor of my state. that heartfelt message you gave me is also not a reason for me to do it. that reason has to reside inside me. and so that's what i've said all along is i know without ever having met president reagan that he must have felt deeply in his

heart that he was called to that moment to lead our country. and so my answer to you is just this. i thank you for what you're saying. and i take it in and i'm listening to every word of it and feeling it, too. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." and back with us on set we have jim cramer and the author of "it's classified." >> an amaze book. >> amazing book. buy it now. it's hot. >> it will change western civilization. >> i love it. nicole wallace joins us. >> front page of "the new york times." jim cramer, this is a nightmare. for small business owners, health insurance -- >> you've got to read between the lines, though. >> health insurance goes up 9%. of course everybody's blaming everybody. the insurers are blaming obama's health care plan and the democrats are blaming the health care insurers. everybody's pointing fingers at

everybody. all i know is this -- if you're a small business owner and health care goes up 10% during the great recession, you're either going to stop hiring people or you're going to shut it down. >> offsets any other plans that have come out to make so it that people want to hire. every one of the health care analysts on wall street told you we're raising numbers dramatically on these companies because of obama care. it was really amazing. the ll street research which told you to buy these companies because they're going to be able to raise rates big. this was not a secret. >> and of course if you tell a company -- and i'm -- listen, i'm not saying it was the right thing to do or it was the wrong thing to do, i love the pre-existing conditions. if p, you know -- just like i would love it to be christmas eve every day of the year. but if you tell insurance companies, people with pre-existing conditions have to be covered, cover joe scarborough's kids until they're 26 years old and all of these other thing, rates are going to go up. and that's only part of what's

happening. obvious the president would not have even tackled health care if insurance costs had not explode sod much over the past decade. >> you're using the report as a touch stone for this conversation, the white house will tell you that report looks back and the next one which looks forward will show that health care is more affordable. that's their response. >> that would be great. let's get the news. i can't wait to talk to jim cramer. saying things may be getting a little better economically. >> yes. >> that's exciting. >> and "it's classified." we won't tell you what nicole wallace going to talk act because it's classified. >> and we'll talk about something that, while america slept, right, while america was sleeping, history was made. right here in this studio. much like -- i wonder if the world was sleeping when the guttenberg bible came off the press or marconi put the last two wires together. another breakthrough in communications happened right here at 30 rock. people will be talking about it far long time.

>> is he sitting down? >> today we call it the lab cam. a hundred years from now what will people be saying tab the history you've made? >> we've been taking calls from newseum all morning. >> the lav. that's the kind of exhibit -- >> sitting down. >> this is -- mark halperin was at chris christie's speech, flying back from california on the red eye this morning. we got him live on way too early from inside the lavatory aboard delta flight 226 somewhere above colorado. he analyzed the christie speech from the can. >> most remarkably, he brought along the same lighting e effects they had in all three matrixes. with that out of the way, history has been made. let us move forward and talk about chris christie in california. he wowed the crowd. >> he nailed it. at his highly anticipated speech at the ronald reagan presidential library in simi valley, california, last night, he praised the reagan presidency

while criticizing president obama in the speech called "real american exceptionalism." he spoke about the type of leadership he says america needs right now. >> rule for effective governance is simple. it's the one ronald reagan knew by heart. it's the one he successfully employed with social security and the cold war. when there is a problem, you fix it. that's what you do. that's what he did. that's the job we've been sent to do, and you cannot wait for someone else to do it when you're sitting in the oval office. what happens, what happened to state senator obama? when did he decide to become one of the dividers he spoke so eloquently of in 2004? there is, of course, a different choice. president obama prepares to divide our nation to achieve re-election. this is not a leadership style. this is a re-election strategy. we watch a president who once

talked about the courage of his convictions but still has yet found the courage to lead. we watch a congress at war with itself because they're unwilling to leave campaign-style politics at the capitol's door. the result is a debt ceiling limitation debate that made our democracy appear as if we could no longer effectively govern ourselves. >> a new fair leigh dickinson poll of new jersey voters say 54% approve of governor christie's job performance, up ten pints from may. as for the call to run for president -- you want to keep those numbers up? >> yes. >> his brother said he would be surprised if he runs. >> he's not going to rup. it would be the biggest shock of his life. look at those poll numbers. nicole wallace, chris christie has done big things in new jersey whether you like them or hate them. again, i always talk about fdr on one side, reagan on another. they dared to do big things, love it or not.

he's done big things. and he's got the highest approval rating of any republican governor in america right now. and look at that -- i mean, look at the spread. in the bluest of blue states, that is -- you know what, that's remarkable. and i would be saying -- by the way, we say the same thing about andrew cuomo. even in a blue, blue state. but andrew cuomo and chris christie are two governors who are defying political gravity right now. >> and by doing the right thing, they're reaping a political benefit. and this is where everyone in washington has it all mixed up. they are suffering the political consequences for doing all the wrong things. and, look, governor christie is remarkable. i don't believe that what he's doing and the way he's doing it can be replicated exactly by anybody in washington. you know, perhaps by this president. perhaps this president could

tackle things in the way that governor christie does and have some success. but he's in a league of his own. unfortunately, he is one of one. there are not a slew of other people that rise to his level of being able to articulate a defense of american exceptionalism that season a political bludgeon. there is nobody else who can articulate a defense of capitalism that doesn't suggest winners and losers. and there is nobody who can indict the right and the left with credibility and without looking down their nose at their own party. nobody. >> i don't want to oversimplify this formula for success, but it is a simple formula for success. it's courage. it's courage. that's what washington has not had in a long time. and that's -- you know, we've been pushing the president for 2 1/2 years to show the courage to do the big things. >> and grit.

>> and congress -- yeah and d y defied it. i just -- i want to be careful here, but to do the big things on entitlements, to do the big things on tax reform, and we e've said it here ozo people aren't saying that's just the republican attacking the democrat. there's a lot of times, i'm saying no, you stare down the republican congress, you destroy them if you have to to get these big items done. if they're going to demagogue you on medicare, take them to the mat, destroy them, win the election. >> but there's also something else at work in this quick jump he's had in the polls. we have seen a kinder, less personal christie in the last two months. >> right. >> he was on the attack to get the budget done. ever since then he's stopped singling out individual people, he has stopped being a bully, he's heard that perhaps he overstepped. he's moved back a little on the personal rhetoric and now he e's loved. he's loved. >> who does that remind you of,

sco mika? >> scott walker. >> exactly. >> that's what you do when you become governor of a state. you evolve, you learn, you work with people. you get a feeling this guy could break some backs behind the scenes, you know? >> the machine. the democratic machine. >> willy, he got a historic budget passed in new jersey by doing business with democratic leaders. >> all democrats. >> all democratic leaders, dealing with the democratic machine. >> that's who loathed him, by the way. >> right. >> he worked with them to get something done. you watch him last night and you have to say it's a shame for the country if he doesn't run. that's a guy who could challenge president obama on the issues without calling him names, without threatening the chairman of the federal reserve. he would be a guy on that republican stage who would offer a counterbalance to president obama. but you have to wonder what's going to tip his feeling about getting into the race? he said last night it has to live within him. if it doesn't live within him today, he's only got about a

week or two to make it live within him and it's not yet. >> just my feeling about him is he'd be a strong candidate who would raise the conversation between both candidates and perhaps inspire president obama as a candidate to rise to the level again. very clearly on the other side of this. having said that, i want a real fight. i don't want a crazy person on the republican side going against -- >> you're not going to get it. crazy never wins. >> people forget, he was an unbelievably great white-collar prosecutor with an amazing record. we hate the bankers in this country who stole for us. he pursued them and put them in jail. i had the privilege of testifying with him in a white-collar case where he called me endlessly to say, listen, you must make a stand against these corrupt bankers and krups cfos. these guys could be a pow they're people love. >> it's not going to happen, though. >> so, nicole wallace, d does the republican party need him? >> of course we need him. but i think we are entering into this realm of -- it reminds me

of dysfunctional dating where we're lusting so openly and publicly and in a way that's becoming pathetic for that which is not available to us. and it's -- you know, it's getting heartbreaking. i mean, my phone rang off the hook last night from people on the west coast who watched and they said finally someone who stands in the reagan library hand doesn't sound like he was handled a note card of old reagan quotes, someone who's living and walking along. his reagan references were handed to him from some researcher or speechwriter. he's doing them. and living that parallel. he embodies everything that we love about reagan. >> and, nicole, that's what's so depressing about this republican party. if you listen to what some of these candidates are saying right now, it sounds exactly like what guys like me were saying on the campaign trail in 1994. but it's almost like they're reading note cards. less taxes. less spending. less regulations. >> right. >> well, listen, i still believe

in all of those things, but we're in a brave new world in 2011. we've got to talk about the threat from china. we've got to talk about an overextended military. we've got to talk about wall street corruption that is a great threat to free-mark capitalism that we love. and the candidates out there aren't seizing upon that like chris christie. as you listen to chris christie you're exactly right, you're like, wait a second, he's not stuck in 1994. >> right. and he's not afraid to pay compliments to the democrats. >> right. >> the way he's to co-opted the machine is they don't feel they've been co-opted. they have consulted, they've collaborated and they aren't insulted when he takes the stage in a political context. there are no other republican political figures who have the confidence to stand in the arena and say, for example, for every three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten dollars in cuts i would raise taxes. no one even has the confidence to put that on the title. immigration reform will never

happen because nobody has can the confidence to say i'll do it in a comprehensive way, which is the only way it will ever happen. you can't just build a fence and forget abeveryone who's here. no one will take on entitlements because no one has the confidence to say there will be less social security for you and you because the pot is empty. >> do you know how revolutionary that is that when you stand before a group of people and they say, well, this is what i want you to do, and i give an example in my book on gay marriage, 1994, it's conservative a district as there was. christian coalitions elsewhere. they're saying what about the department of education? shut it down! blah! what about the department of agriculture? shut it down! blah! everybody screams. then a guy stands up and says what about those guys in vermont that are getting married? and i just stop and stare at them and go, why do you care about what guys in vermont are

doing? let's have a deal. we don't tell guys in have vth what to do and they don't tell us what to do. >> right. >> which is a truly conservative point of view. >> that's the sort of thing. my point is this. this was the most conservative crowd on the planet, but when you stop and you just tell them a truth that they may not have confronted before, they sat there -- >> was there a slow clap? >> they put their torches out and guess what, they all started clapping. so if a leader would go out there and say, listen, everybody on the right and the left are telling you that we're not going to cut medicare benefit, guess what, if you're under 50, your medicare benefits are going to get cut. you know why? because i want medicare to be around when you're around. and guess what, we are going to get more revenue in the federal government. and we're going to do it by lowering the tax rate, expanding the base and make sure billionaires pay their fair share but also making sure that all americans pay their fair share. i mean, you tell people the truth and an amazing thing happens. you see your numbers go up like

chris christie's. you win landslide elections. people start voting for you, willy, even when they don't agree with you. >> so all that said, we agree he would be a good candidate for the republican party. why at the end of the day will he not do it? >> because he is responsible enough to know that he has not been in elected office for even two years. >> our next guest is about to venture out on u.s. tours as he mark 25s years as a solo artist. sting joins us when we come back. first here's todd santos with a check on the forecast. a very good morning. i want to let everyone know still dealing with issues on the east coast travel-wise, especially reagan airport, 35, 40 minutes there. lightening in the area, low clouds towards philly, bawl as well with some delays at this hour. some of those showers right around the edges of new york city. that was a six-hour loop. still a potential for flashflooding. there's what we could be dealing with today.

boston on the drier side.

♪ i'm an englishman in new york whoa, i'm an alien i'm a legal alien ♪ ♪ sending out an s.o.s. sending out an s.o.s. sending out an s.o.s. ♪ ♪ sending out an s.o.s.

>> welcome back. that was a look at grammy award winner sting performing in rough, raw, and unreleased live at irving plaza. his new cd/dvd collection entitled "sting: 25 years, the definitive box set collection." >> willy, where's dorfman? >> it's available now. dorfman. and a special cd of ariel dorfman reading poetry. no. sting joins us now on the set. welcome back. >> nice to be back. thank you. >> he underlines an important fact about what you've done throughout the years. you don't just go out and sing. you've wanted to make sure you used your celebrity for important causes. of course in the '80s, '90s, beyond, very involved with amnesty international, which gets you working with people like ariel dorfman. >> well, i've always demanded citizens' rights, but that means also you have to have citizens' responsibilities, and as a citizen of the world, if you have a platform to say something

useful, then you should use that. and so, i've tried to do that. i've succeeded in some things that i've tried to do, failed in others, but i think it was always a worthwhile thing, as a citizen, to do. >> how are we doing? >> we're not doing great. i think the world is in a bit of a mess, and i'm not quite sure how we get out of that. >> what's led us to this point? >> what's led us to it? i think what was said before about truth telling is an important thing. i think we need politicians to actually just say this is how it is and it's not going to be popular, it may lose me votes, but this is the real situation. and i think people would get respect from that. as it is, they tend to say what's expedient, you know, what will get them votes. you know, there was a great phrase in the paper the other day, we, the people, are having an economic crisis, you, the politicians are having an election. fantastically cogent little

piece of truth telling. >> so you went to politicians, so i'll just ask. is there anybody in washington, anybody on the landscape that gives you hope? >> you know, i was brought up in england and the parliamentary system where politicians have to get up in parliament and say what they have to say and if it's wrong or a lie -- >> they get -- >> they get completely horse whipped publicly. >> it's wonderful. >> here you say anything you like and nobody contradicts you. you have a little sound bite. i miss that parliamentary struggle. maybe you should bring that in. >> i agree completely. >> speaking of causes, you're going to be getting back up on that horse again for another cause that you've been involved with again this weekend on saturday and your birthday. >> it's my birthday on sunday. i am 60 years old. >> okay. >> and i'm being very indiscreet about it. >> that's not like you. >> no, no, no. let's do a shot here. >> just stop it. >> he looks better than willy

and i looked at, well, 17. >> need to start yoga, joe e. >> do you do joe ga? >> i do. i work out. >> do you eat well? >> i eat pretty well. i dirink coffee. >> back on coffee. >> espresso. it's a combination of 50% vanity and 50% discipline. but -- >> that's a really good way of putting it. >> vanity. really get me over the hump. i don't understand it. so i guess i need some discipline with the vanity. so saturday night. you're playing for a very important thing. >> i'm playing for the robin hood foundation, which does fantastic work in the city. i'm pleased to support them. but i'm being very indiscreet about my 60th birthday inviting my friends to come and sing my songs. billy joel, bruce springsteen, lady gaga, rufus wainwright, stevie wonder, will.i.am. it's a pretty good stellar, you know, list. >> amazing. >> so match the stellar artists

with the stellar sting songs. who's going to sing what? >> we're negotiating that at the moment. >> really. >> some would fit others and some wouldn't. >> do they have requests, like are they -- >> some people want to do the same song. we have to sort of fend them off. it's going to be a good night. >> that's one way to turn 60. >> i'm going to sing backup. >> are you really? how exciting will that be for you? >> fantastic. >> and what does the robin hood foundation do? >> they help underprivileged people in the city, people who lack the basic wherewithal to live and it's a great thing to do. >> looking back over your 25 years, what are you the most proud of? >> probably my family. you know, i have a great family. all six kids -- my kids are coming to the show on saturday night. i have a lovely wife. >> how many kids do you have? >> six. >> i thought you said six. that's almost as much as barnacle. >> one behind barnicle.

>> three boys, three girls, all fantastic, talented, wonderful individuals. they'll all be there. my brother, two sister, people i played with back in newcastle are coming over. it's going to be a big night. >> you give some indication of this in the artists you'll be performing with on saturday night, but who do you look at today in the music landscape, lady gaga is an interesting choice, paired with rufus wainwright. are there a few young acts you're impressed with? >> i'm very impressed with gaga. she really can play and sing and she has a very integrated idea what it is to be a star. i mean, i hope she has the energy to keep that up. seven days a week, 24/7 she is lady gaga. and that's pretty intense. >> she's also an activist. how important do you think that -- >> i love the things she says, the messages she gives to her audience. they're very positive messages, and i think that's needed. >> do you think that's central, though? do you think you can just do the

talent part or do you think you have to stand for something bigger now? >> from my point of view i like people who can speak up and say this is wrong, we should change this, and she's one of those people. she's very outspoken and very intelligent. >> is there a song -- because you talk about children. songs are like children. >> yeah. >> is there a song over 25 years that's in this box set that's being released in october that's grown on you that when you wrote it you say i'm not sure if that's going to stay on. but 25 years later you look back and you say, you know what, i did something special there? >> i wouldn't finish a song if i didn't think it was special. >> right. >> so they're all special. but if you ask me to choose one song from however many there are, 45, i would say it's all really one song, i'm singing one song. different aspects of one life journey. so, no, i couldn't really pick one. >> is there an album? >> no. >> you're being difficult. very did i feel. >> he's really not. >> you're being very difficult. you're an artist.

talk about your first solo, "blue turtles," when you left the police, that couldn't have been a comfortable thing to do but you went out and you put out an extraordinary album. >> it was a risk. i left what was arguably the biggest band in the world to launch myself on a solo career. i could have failed miserably. the timing was good. it was a good trajectory, a good, you know, momentum from my previous career. and i was just lucky. i was just dead lucky. >> no you weren't. that's just a lie. >> okay. it's a lie. >> very talented. you know what i always say, willy, it's about 50%, you know, vanity, 50% -- >> you're halfway there, joe. >> i'm halfway there. on the other side of the coin, i wonder when guy to a rolling stones concert and mick is out there doing jumpin' jack flash or "brown sugar," do you ever after all these years say i have to sing that one again tonight? the audience is expecting this

from me? >> tired. >> i always find something different to do in the song, a little inflection, something maybe the audience wouldn't realize but i find something new to do. my job is to sing that afternoon as if i'd written it this afternoon, with the same passion, the same commitment. i enjoy singing the songs. they're lovely. >> what are you looking forward to -- is it your family on saturday night? obviously that's going to make it the most special for you. right? >> it's a very special evening for me and i'm a little afraid of it, kind of dreading it and also looking forward to it. i think when the final curtain goes down and i can sit down and have a glass of wine, we'll say we did it, got through the gate. >> 60. well, congratulations. >> thank you. >> thank you so much for coming. >> congratulations on newcastle. they're doing a little better this year. >> fourth in the premiership, which is a miracle. >> it actually is a miracle. plus you have a lot of cash because liverpool took andy carroll off your hands and his drinking bill. >> so sorry about that.

i'm not sorry at all. >> not sorry at all. >> sting, "25 years. the definitive box set collection," available now. thank you for coming on. >> you should sign this for dorfman. >> yes. oh. dorfman. tomorrow goldie hawn will be here and fleetwood mac's lindsey buckingham. when we come back, amazon's tablet challenges ipod. ♪ ♪ ♪ when the things that you need ♪ ♪ come at just the right speed, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ medicine that can't wait legal briefs there by eight, ♪

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you look at sting, the guy -- >> he's in good shape. >> the guy look like he's 18. >> he has discipline. >> he's hot. >> your husband told you not to say that. >> he told me not to drool in front of sting. >> right here. >> and i achieved that. >> can i just say susan, you know, susan, my wife, susan is not impressed by guys. she's just not. i mean, obviously, she married me. not impressed by me. sting, come on.

get her talking about sting, it never stops. >> 50% discipline, joe. that's all it takes. >> but, all right, vanity is important, too. he said it. 50% vanity. >> and you've got that down. >> 50% right here in our hands. >> too bad you're not using it. >> i'm using my vanity. it gets me in trouble every day. mick jagger on the stage. >> lit guile, great shape. >> athlete. >> they always say the myth of the rock star, keith richards would be up for six days in a row, mick jag up at 6:00, running ten miles in the morning. >> he's running. no doubt about it. sting, you see a lot of rock stars and they're like 4'11", they're jockeys. sting is a good-sized guy. >> yeah. >> healthy, strong. >> he's okay. he's okay. >> get the drool off your face, as well. both of you. >> don't forget about your husband. you failed. >> you know who else is a vain rocker --

>> sleek, in shape. >> he's british. simon hobbs live at the new york stock exchange! simon. >> please, please. >> he's uncomfortable. >> he's uncomfortable. take off the jacket for us. >> that's why the guy looks so good at 60. all the tantrix stuff. cryptic invitations, 10:00 to attend a sound stage on 37th street from amazon. it looks like amazon from the rumors is is going to unveil a new tablet that could for once rival apple's ipad. we think it will be impressively priced down to about $300 compared to ipad's $499. we think it will be called the kindle fire. clearly you'll have access to all the movies and stuff they generate on amazon.com. a challenge to itunes. and of course amazon has a ability to sell to millions of people already visiting the site. some are saying the retailers like best buy could be downgraded if amazon says you can only buy our new tablet

online. a big product launch today at 10:00. >> that is going to be fascinating. the kindle, which everybody said would be made extint by the ipad, i still find myself grabbing the kindle and going. it's light, it's solid, you can throw it up against the wall and you can see it in the sun. it is easier on your eyes than the ipad. this is going to be a fascinating little fight. >> absolutely. >> actually a massive fight involving billions of dollars. simon hobbs, you are our favorite british rock star. thank you for being with us. coming up next, what do we have, mika? >> a new progress report as her school, and we know her, ranked the highest in new york. we'll bring in the founder of the harlem village charters school deborah kenny.

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. 43 past. to nbc's education series. the harlem village academy's charter school tops the list in harlem. joining us now, the school's founder and ceo dr. deborah kenny back on the show. good to have you. >> nice to be here. >> what a great day. what a great accomplishment. >> thank you. it's the teachers' accomplishment, of course. >> how do you keep doing that? again, we talked about this before on the show, but the students that you get in there are usually three grades behind reading proficiency, math proficiency. by the time they leave a couple of years later they're in the 9th percentile. >> right. >> top school in harlem. how? >> so it has to do with how you attract the best people and then

how you bring out the best in those people. and the way we do it is by giving teachers an enormous amount of freedom. and then we have this deep culture of accountability. and here's what i think we have to get away from right now. there's too much talk about teacher evaluation in this country right now. i think we are overdoing it when it comes to constant talk about testing and evaluation. we've got to really talk more about trusting and empowering teachers and bringing out the best in people by trusting and respecting teachers not just talk about it but actually do it. >> but you understand how we got to this place in terms of the lack of trust. right? >> yes. well, you know, on the one hand you have the extreme of where the union doesn't want any accountability at all, lifetime job protection no matter what, and then you have the government, which is building a bureaucracy that used to be around compliance. i fear that we're now building a bureaucracy around evaluation. and i think both of those are really the wrong way to go. but instead i think we need more

authentic accountability. what that means is you have to think deeply about human motivation. how do you bring out in someone the desire and the drive to do their best? i'm not talking about a top-down checklist and you'll get $3,000 at the end of the year if you perform. i'm talking about how do you bring out in someone the desire to hold themselves accountable. so we've got on the a point in our school where our teachers have this inner sense of accountability, and they hold themselves. now we have employment at will so we can do that. we can hire people like that. that's what's the magic of a charter is that you can hire people who have that inner drive. >> and it cuts through that problem. >> willy sknt do that in all public schools. >> no. we'll be at the charter school for excellence in the bronx on friday. i was up there on monday talking to the head of the school and she said the same thing. when she got the job she was able to assemble the a dream team of the kind of people you

were talking about. she remembered when she was in public school her favorite teachers and she holds them accountable like you do. and you hold your kids really accountable. i remember the first time we went up and talked to you and some kid -- you said i'm going to treat these children the way i treat my children, if they bring home a c, it's not, hey, great, you got a c, no, get an a. you hold them to that same expectation you hold your own children. >> the teachers set the examples so if the teacher is working hard, the kids will be working hard. if the teachers are treating each other in a loving, caring way, the kids do the same. if the teachers are holding themselves accountable, then the children will hold themselves accountable. but again all of this can only happen in the setting of a charter school. and so what we need to do is kind of charterize the country. we need to get everybody to understand that this authentic accountability, which is not a top-down bureaucracy, not a checklist, not somebody coming in and evaluating you based on a

test score that may or may not be fair, but it's a sort of restoring humanity to the classroom by restoring human judgment to schools. >> so i don't know if this would be part of charterizing the country, but one of the things we were talking about with kcor booker and jeb bush yeld was simple structural things like the school day. my kids get out of school at 2:40. and one doesn't even go to school until 9:30 in the morning. i don't know how they get any teaching done. what are your hours? >> we followed the model and the example that was set ten years ago by the kip school so, that's where we got the idea from, and we do have a longer day, 7:40 a.m. to 4:40 p.m. is the regular school day, then there's an extra hour for extracurricular program we call find your passion. and so, yeah, the longer day was help. >> what about saturdays? >> what's really critical is what's underlying that longer day. it's the freedom that you get with the charter to do whatever it takes to make it work.

so i have another friend in boston who runs a top school there who their day is not quite as long but they do other things. it's the freedom that underlies it. so the secret is not all of the processes or systems that come out of that freedom and accountability. the secret is the freedom and accountability that allows you to make whatever decision as a school leader and a team of teachers collaborating together wish to make. and by the way, they need to be able to change every week and every month as they see different things happening in their school and the kids have different problems, they can make those decisions. >> the question is how do you take that from a charter setting -- >> right. >> -- because, i mean, to really be blunt with you, we've been great friends of yours, but charter schools aren't the ends. we've got to figure out how to, you know, export that to public school. >> yes. >> how do we do that? >> you know better. you know charter schools are public schools, right, so first of all, charter schools are public schools. second of all, we have to

charterize the country. >> to all public schools. >> every single public school has to have -- has to. we will never get there, ever, unless we humanize and soften things. but how do you provide all that trust and collaboration that teachers need and deserve? >> in the big system. >> the only way is to have authentic accountability. and so we truly need to make every single school in the country have those same underlying conditions. >> you empower the teacher, the teacher succeeds, the teacher is rewarded. if you trust and em pow err teach they're lets students down, that teacher is taken out of the school. >> and then you'll see people on fire because you've given them what they want when a teacher is living out their calling and they're on fire about what they do, that just spreads to the kids. and then you have the feeling willy talks about when you walk through our schools. that you have that special je ne

sais quoi. what is going on here? why is everybody so alive to their calling, to their passion? because we're giving them that trust and passion. we can't dust just do that willy-nilly, sorry, but only because we are held accountable as a school for results at the end of the day and that's what we need to do for everybody. >> deborah kenny, thank you so much. it's great to see you. >> always great to see you, deborah. >> congratulations. up next, the best of late night.

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what did you learn tuesday? >> big "j" journalism is not dead as evidenced by mark halperin in the lavatory of a plane this morning. i interviewed him earlier today about chris christie's speech while he was holed up in the can. >> okay. >> during a flight. >> don't need to know more. >> matrix lighting. >> i wonder if there was a security problem after he came out. sir, why were you in there ten

minutes? >> nicole, what did row learn? >> i learned that lady gaga is going to sing a yet to be determined sting song. >> that's so cool. >> along with billy joel. >> yeah. >> stevie wonder. really cool crowd. stevie wonder, bruce springst n springsteen, all for the robin hood foundation. >> she takes the female is a dog concept into her second book called "it's classified." can't wait to read it. >> i've learned once again it's always about mika. >> thank you for that. >> always makes me sad. i learned actually that i'm halfway there, willie, to looking great. 50% vanity and 50% discipline. >> i guess you could look at it that way. >> which half do you have? >> way too early. "morning joe." stick around for "the daily rundown" with chuck. well, chris christie had his best chance yet to settle the speculatio