rick perry has dropped dramatically. he's been second place -- >> according to a new poll -- >> mitt romney has regained his lead. >> fox poll -- >> every candidate has a but. >> anti-romney vote -- >> if you don't change your view -- >> perry is a conservative that worries me. >> a lot of conservatives want to like rick perry. >> social security a ponzi scheme. >> i don't think have you a heart. >> they're offended by him saying that, you know, conservatives don't have a heart. >> i probably chose a poor word to -- and it was inappropriate. >> i could not support rick perry. >> herman cain is a conservative that worries me. >> just at 17%, just below rick perry. >> many african-americans have been brain washed -- >> black voters have been brain washed. >> brain washed and people not being open-mined. >> you'll see where cain is next week. >> bachmann is a conservative that worries me. >> i respected my husband's headship of our home. >> it's incopatible -- >> are you saying christie is not a conservative?

as far as the republican establishment's concerned, yes. >> oh, please. please, please, stop -- >> christie sucks all the air out -- >> every candidate has a but. >> he said no. and if i remember from my freshman dorm orientation correctly, no means no. so back off. as predicted here after his very first presidential debate on msnbc, rick perry's support is falling and falling fast. a new fox news poll of republican voters shows that perry has handed his front-runner status back to mitt romney, who is now in the lead with 23% of the vote. perry dropped ten points to 19% of the vote.

and herman cain has replaced michele bachmann as the hopeless candidacy that republicans like best. cain is now polling third at 17%, which is a gain of 11 points for him. michele bachmann is the tragic figure in this poll, which shows her settling into a tie. for last place. with rick santorum at 3%. the bachmann team need never again worry about how she might look on magazine covers. her 15 minutes of presidential campaign fame may be over sooner than anyone expected. today's new york post reports that the cash crunch in the bachmann campaign is so bad that she might not even make it to the iowa caucuses. according to "the post," bachmann's skeletal staff are holding their collective breath until the deadline to disclose her fund-raising report on october 15th.

a computer vendor has called her campaign headquarters threatening to shut down the power due to an outstanding bill. the fox news poll shows newt gingrich crawling into the middle with a gain of eight points. ron paul holding steadily at 6%. while only 4% of republicans feel inclined to vote for someone as reasonable sounding as jon huntsman. the political media and republican billionaires who are ready to fund him may be eager for new jersey governor chris christie to run for president but republican voters can take him or leave him. 40% say chris christie should run for president in 2012 but a solid 33% say christie should not run for president. mitt romney tried out a new line to defend against the accurate charge that he is a flip-flopper. >> in the private sector, if you

don't change your view when the facts change, you'll get fired for being stubborn and stupid. winston churchill said, when the facts change, i change too, what do you do, madame? >> rick perry unwisely tried to prove that he is smarter than someone. well, smarter than anyone isn't a good thing for him to try to prove. in this case, he tried to tell cnbc viewers that he, rick perry, is smarter than warren buffett. >> i'm curious about your thoughts on the buffett rule and goes to the class warfare issue. >> well, i think it gets right down to the real problem that we've got in washington, d.c. is an administration that is listening to people who really don't have an understanding about what's going on there in the real world. >> you think warren buffett doesn't --. >> i think mr. -- i think mr. buffett is a really intelligent individual, but i can promise you, doesn't know what's going on in places that -- where the

job creation is at a zero, because of overtaxation and overregulation. >> and herman cain has bravely and irrelevantly ruled out running on a ticket with rick perry. >> could you support rick perry if he were the nominee? >> today i could not support rick perry as the nominee for a host of reasons. him being soft on securing the border is one of the reasons. i feel very strongly about the need to secure the border for rio, the need to enforce the laws that are already there. that's where he and i have a basic fundamental difference of opinion. >> realizing that the president's poll numbers make his re-election seem like an unhill battle at this point. the vice president offered an important political reminder in a radio interview in florida today. >> there was a guy i knew who used to be the mayor of boston back in the '70s and the press

was asking him legitimate questions and pointing out he was sagging in the polls. and he looked at them and he said, look, don't compare me to the almighty. compare me to the alternative. that's what's going to happen. right now, totally legitimate, this is a referendum on obama and biden, the nature of the economy. it's soon going to be a choice. it's soon going to be a choice. >> the mayor the vice president was referring to, was as bostonians know, kevin white, and he was on the democratic party's short list for joe biden's job. joining me now are howard feinman, editorial director for aol/huffington post media group and nbc analyst and ron kerry, former chief of staff to michele bachmann and former chairman of the minnesota republican party. thank you both for joining me tonight. >> hi, lawrence. >> thank you, lawrence.

>> ron kerry, i wanted to get your take on the status of the bachmann campaign at this point. does that new york post item today make sense to you that she's in trouble financially and may be running out of gas soon? >> michele's always had trouble raising money from fund-raiser that can give more than $5,000. the life blood of her campaign is the small donor and she has largest donor file of any conservative candidate, whether it be congress, senate or any activist. so, she has a wide spectrum of people to draw upon. the question is, will they still give? are they going to write that $25 check if they think her campaign is dead in the water? i guess the next 30 to 60 days will show whether or not they still believe enough in her campaign versus cain, santorum or somebody else to make sure their $25 check goes to her and not one of the other candidates. >> ron, i just want to read something you wrote earlier in the year. of your experience working for bachmann.

you said the bachmann campaign and congressional offices i inherited were wildly out of control. stacks upon stacks of unopened contributions filled the campaign office while thousands of communications from citizens waited for an answer. if she is unable or unwilling to handle the basic duties of a campaign or congressional office. how could she possibly manage the magnitude of the presidency? what about managing the magnitude of a presidential campaign? >> well, that is right up -- you're exactly right there. i mean, my point in writing that is that while she can serve as a member of congress, i spoke out because i didn't feel she was up to the task of being president of the united states. as a conservative, be i feel we have a responsibility to get behind a candidate that if elected, does have the skill set required to handle the most difficult job in the world. and i didn't believe when i wrote that. i still don't believe michele bachmann is prepared to be president of the united states. >> howard, speaking of prepared to be president of the united

states, herman cain who has replaced michele bachmann as the unlikely favorite among voters willing to vote for people who don't have a chance to become president, is he on track for the bachmann trajectory here which is surge up into 17%, 18%, around there, run third, maybe even run second in polling and then just flame out? >> well, possibly, lawrence, although i was astonished to hear a top handler for one of the other top candidates tell me -- or, rather, say to me in an e-mail various things that he thought may -- made herman cain's record on the issue an impossible sell. in other words, herman cain has gotten the attention of the other leading contenders to the point where they're actually looking at his record. >> yeah. >> which is -- which is progress for -- >> it's a big compliment to herman cain.

>> that's a big compliment. they said, he voted for t.a.r.p. he was pro-t.a.r.p. let's look at him on immigration because he wants to give control to -- too much control to individual states and so forth. so, i think they're taking notice of him. it's hard not to with the fox news poll showing herman cain shooting up from 6% to, i think, 17% in their latest poll. there's no question he did a bang up job down in florida the other day. you know, florida really matters in the whole scheme of things. >> ron kerry, i'd like to get your conservative republican perspective on the christie for president phenomenon that may or may not turn out to be real. we know rush limbaugh is very suspicious saying christie isn't really one of them, he didn't a ditto head limbaugh hard core conservative. how do you think christie would be received in this campaign? >> i think he would suffer the same fate of rick perry where he may jump out as flavor of the month but once you start to peel the onion back and look at different positions, you'll find

there are going to be issues where he may not be in sync with all the conservatives across the country. one thing conservatives are looking for is authenticity this election cycle and someone with a consistent record. that's what minute romney's biggest challenge is his inconsistent record as a conservative. we've been burned before as conservatives. look at richard nixon, he introduced wage and price controls and went to china. you look at george h.w. bush where he said, read my lips, no new taxes and then raised taxes. we have been promised by candidates in the past they would govern as conservatives and then they do things liberals wouldn't even try to do. we're looking for someone who is authentic as a conservative that we can trust. that's why i think you're seeing there's going to be a search for that authentic conservative. whether it be a herman cain or rick santorum, michele bachmann's had her chance up to bat. michele is very authentic in her beliefs but that's where it comes down to, you have to be authentic and you also have to

be electable and ready to serve. really take somebody who can ring the bell in all three aspects. that's what republican conservative activists are looking for. herman cain is being tested. i think christie would face the same fate as perry where, you know, he looks good on paper, then you start digging into it and you might find flaws that would make people flee. >> howard, speaking of authenticity in republican politics, mr. donald trump. the candidates have been making the pilgrimage to new york to kiss the ring or whatever it is that trump offers them to kiss in his office. it turns out in the fox news poll, there's some very useful information that they should check before they, you know, make those plane reservations to new york. the fox news poll says the trump endorsement -- of the trump endorsement, 6% say they would be more likely to vote for a trump endorsed candidate. and 31% say that would make them less likely to vote for that

candidate. so, it basically costs you 25% of the electorate if you go up there and beg donald for his attention. >> well, a couple things, lawrence. first of all, that 6% are all -- have all been on "the apprentice," so that's number one. number two, donald trump sort of stands in extreme form for a lot of the kind of rich guy republicans in and around the metropolitan new york area who are pining away for chris christie. chris christie made his bones as an anti-union guy in new jersey. which takes some guts in new jersey. and when christie went out to speak at the ronald reagan library, he talked eloquently in his speech about how reagan's great moment in speech is when he went against the air traffic controllers strike. that plays well there but that's

not enough for christie. in certain respects if christie gets in, which i don't expect him to do, he would be as much of a threat to romney because a lot of dissatisfaction among big money guys in new york is that they rightly are skeptical whether mitt romney can really sell. romney has been out there for months and months, if not years and years. and the latest fox poll he's still only at 23%. you talk to his people. people will settle for romney, resigned to the fact that people aren't really excited about their candidate but they think somehow they'll muddle through with them. there's still a lot of people who both conservatives and nonconservatives in the republican party who want some exciting candidates. it's -- partly it's just that. christie has charisma and that makes him attractive.

>> thanks to howard feinman and thank you very much, ron kerry, former chief of staff for congressman bachmann for sharing your insights on republican voters' thinking. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. president obama got a glimmer of hope in the latest unemployment numbers out today. coming up next, van jones on what washington should be doing about jobs. and later we'll have an exclusive witness of the police brutality that broke out during a peaceful occupy wall street demonstration.

coming up, some are calling it the progressive answer to the tea party. called take back the american dream happening next week in washington. vaughn jones, one of the leaders of that movement will join me next. and bill o'reilly is back in the rewrite tonight after last night confirming a prediction that i made about him. and this time, we have video of john stewart just humiliating the poor guy.

i will buy everyone in here a drink if by the end of this year there is not action on the jobs end. members of congress have explaining to do when they go home for the end of the year recess, if they've done nothing, nothing, to address the urgent need to help our economy and create jobs. >> that was white house press secretary jay carney placing a friendly bet that congress will take action to improve the jobs action.

it improved modestly when the labor department announced new claims for jobless benefits fell sharply to a seasonally adjusted level of 391,000. that was a 37,000 drop from the previous week and the lowest figure in nearly six months. the mayor of new york, a former job creator himself and a former republican, who now operates politically as an independent and happens to be a billionaire, warned recently that there could be riots in the streets if washington doesn't get serious about generating jobs. we have a lot of kids graduating college, can't find jobs, mayor blook befl said on his weekly radio show. that's what happened in cairo. that's what happened in madrid. you don't want those kids -- those kinds of riots here. mayor bloomberg added, the damage to a generation that can't find jobs will go on for

many, many years. joining me now, former green jobs adviser to president obama and current co-founder and president of progressive organization rebuild the dream, van jones. thank you for joining me tonight. >> glad to be here. >> tell us what you're doing next week in washington and tell us how you can somehow drive washington to take the action on jobs that jay carney was talking about. >> well, first of all, i think everybody should hold onto your seats. october is going to be the turning point when it comes to the progressive fight back. you can see it coming. when warren buffett comes out and says, look, we've got to do something to raise taxes and do better by america, and you've got these young kids who are going out there on wall street, you called it, you said, you got young people, they're good kids, graduated from college. some of them have gone over there and fought wars and come back and can't find a job. there's a generation of americans looking around saying, what is the american dream going

to look like for me? they're going to be standing up. we are a part of something called the american dream movement. we're having a huge summit on monday, tuesday and wednesday come -- you can go to rebuildthedream.com and find out more about it. we are going to build a progressive counterbalance to the tea party. 80% of americans agree with everything you say on this show but we have no voice. we know that jobs are more important, phoney made up deficit stuff they talk about. we know that people who have done well in america should do well by america and start paying america back in the form of more fair taxes. people who benefitted from the bailouts and from the tax breaks should start paying america back. they're doing great. everybody else is suffering. that's 80% of the majority. we're going to now have a voice. you're going to see an american fall, an american autumn, just like we saw the arab spring. you can see it right now with these young people on wall street. hold onto your hats. we'll have an october offensive to take back the american dream and to rescue america's middle

class. >> van, i want you to listen to what chris christie said at the reagan library in california. this was a much praised speech across the board. all the analysts are saying how great it was. i thought it was filled with pernicious laws, particularly about president obama who he most insultingly called a bystander in the oval office, which is an outright lie. we know that. you work there and you know that. >> absolutely. >> here's the section of the speech where chris christie was talking about the people at the upper end of our income class, the people who actually do have more that they can contribute both to this society and to the revenue stream of the federal government. let's listen about how chris christie characterized the president's view of these people. let's listen. >> outrageous. i've seen it. >> president obama, prepares to divide our nation to achieve re-election. this is not a leadership style. this is a re-election strategy.

telling those who are scared and struggling that the only way their lives can get better is to diminish the success of others. trying to cynically convince those who are suffering that the american economic pie is no longer a growing one, that can provide more prosperity for all who work hard, insisting that we must tax and take and demonize those who have already achieved the american dream. >> van, your reaction. >> well, you know, it's horribly insulting what he's saying. first of all, we know that the american pie is growing. in fact, the american pie is bigger this year than it was last year. the gnp is growing. it's not that the pie isn't growing. the pie is growing. the middle class slice of the pie is growing. the working class slice of the pie is getting smaller as we have excessive hoarding at the top. now we have super banks and super corporations sitting on the cash. they won't recirculate it to get the economy moving.

so, have you to have action to get the economy moving forward. now, here's the deal. people are acting like going back to the clinton era tax rates on the wealthy is some horrible sin, some crime against humanity. how do we go back to the clinton era when that was one of our most successful eras? we have to be able to deal with the upkeep of the country. we got bridges falling down, roads falling down, schools falling down. we got kids coming home from wars with fwho jobs. we got good americans, 50-year-old white males who if they lose their job, may never work again. that's wrong. they should be teaching the young workers how to do a trade. well, if we were to pass the president's jobs bill and start fixing the bridges, fixing the roads, those men could get up off the coach, they could begin to feed their families and teach the next generation. that is not un-american. the middle class was built in this country. it wasn't a gift from the corporations.

it didn't fall out of the sky, built brick by brick because we had tax fairness. look, our businesses do well in america. because we set them up to succeed. we should. you can't become a billionaire in bangladesh very easily. you can become a billionaire here because we give you the roads, the work force, we give you all those thing. when you do badly, you shouldn't pay us back. when you do well, pay us back and pay fair taxes. that's not un-american, that's fair. >> you would never know listening to the republicans that all the president's talking about is a four percentage point increase in the top tax bracket. thank you for joining me and good luck next week in washington. >> thank you very much. coming up, herman cain says african-americans are brainwashed into voting for democrats. political science professor doer yan warren, an expert on african-american voting joins me next. bill o'reilly has landed himself back in "the rewrite" thanks to john stewart.

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in june "newsweek" reporter lois romano wrote mrs. obama took secret outings in the washington area but always eluded the press. until now. an associated press white house photographer caught this shot of the first lady in a target store in nearby alexandria, virginia. she was incognito with a hat and glasses. msnbc confirmed her secret

service detail was with her at the time but her communications director woulden disclose what the first lady actually bought only saying it is not uncommon for the first lady to slip out to run an errand, eat at a local restaurant or otherwise enjoy the city outside the white house gates. and who else, where else, would you go once you got outside those white house gates? first stop, target. coming up, some african-americans have been expressing disagreements with president obama's policy priorities lately, but herman cain believes african-american voters have been brainwashed to vote for president obama. that's coming up. later, a witness to the police brutality that occurred at the occupy wall street protests joins me. i don't want healthy skin for a day.

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in tonight's spotlight, the

african-american vote as herman cain sees it. >> many african-americans have been brainwashed into not being open-minded, not even considering a conservative point of view. i have received some of that same vitriol simply because i'm running for the republican nomination as a conservative. it's just brainwashing and people not being open-minded. pure and simple. >> that's a strong word to talk about your fellow african-americans. brainwashed? >> for two-thirds of them, wolf, that is the case. >> in 2008 95% of african-american voters voted for obama for president. in 2000, 90% of the african-american voters voted for the democrat. herman cain believes he could break the lock on african-american votes if he was gop nomination for president. >> i believe they would vote for me based on my own anecdotal feedback. they won't vote for me because

i'm broadcast. they'll vote for me because of my policies and what i'm offering to fix this economy. >> joining me now, dorian warren, assistant professor of political science and public affairs at columbia university and fellow at roosevelt institute. thanks for joining me. i know professors don't like to go anecdotal but herman said his anecdotal feel for the community is he would get a third of the african-american vote. what's your gut feeling, cain versus obama? >> that's a disgusting pizza he would be delivering. it's false. >> is there any other explanation other than brainwashing, other than hovering 90% african-american votes for democrat for president? >> absolutely. first, it's important to say that insulting voters isn't quite the winning strategy to win them over to your platform. but more importantly, what we do know is that african-americans

do vote for democratic candidates on issues that they believe are important to them. african-american voters tend to be economically liberal but socially conservative. he's right. black voters do agree with the republican party on some issues but for them, economics trumps culture. and arguably the opposite is true for many white working class voters. often culture and social issues trump their economic interests. so, on issue after issue, let's take the minimum wage, blacks are highly supportive of the minimum wage but when herman cain was head of the national restaurant association, he led a campaign to prevent raising the minimum wage under the clinton administration. he ran -- he led the campaign to prevent health care reform. so, on those issues, african-americans strongly disagree with him and the republican party. >> the history of the african-american vote f you go back far enough, you would find it lines up more closely with republicans than 1956, i guess, eisenhower pulled in about 39%,

which republicans haven't been able to do since because our politics change. in the '50s, it was southern democrats who were politically the worst enemy of african-americans in this country. so, the democrats had much more of a struggle in those days. >> yes. remember, lawrence, starting with the goldwater campaign in 1964, the republican party strategy to gaining power was to demonize african-americans and use the race card, so to speak, to recruit southern whites, especially, to their campaigns. remember, trent lott lost his job when he was -- he made that comment to strom thurman at his 100th birthday saying, if you had won the seg ra gist dixie -- >> he said, if you won the presidency. he forgot he was running as segregationist -- >> but he says we wouldn't have had all these problems. what was he referring to? >> it's very clear.

>> issue of racial justice and equal rights for african-americans. >> what about going forward, would this be a course correction the republican party could take? could there be some compromises they could make with their current orthodox to reach out to other voters? >> it would be very hard to believe that they would do that right now. in fact, herman cain is worried about winning voters, winning black voters. he should be worried about if blacks can vote in the first place. the republican party is launching and coordinating a massive campaign of voter suppression and voter disenfranchisement right now. they are trying to change the law shortening the early voting days in ohio to prevent folks from being able to go to the polls the sunday or saturday or monday before election day. which was the law just two months ago. so, there's a -- there is a campaign to disenfranchise voters which disproportionately affects blacks. they would have to suppress the

vote to win over black voters. >> that's the subject we'll dig into next time you come back. in any election cycle there's always the voter suppression movement that urges. we have to get into that. professor warren of columbia university, thank you for joining me. >> thanks. on monday we showed you video of police brutality against peaceful protesters in the occupy wall street demonstration. one of those protesters will join me coming up. last night, john stewart showed the emptiness of bill o'reilly's position on taxing the rich. that's ahead.

we've showed you the police brutality which occurred. coming up, i'll be joined by a witness to that brutality that broke out in new york over the weekend. we will be also coming up, the bill o'reilly return to the "rewrite". he worked himself back in with

the nonsense he attempted to tell john stewart on "the daily show" last night. that's next. [ snoring ] [ thunder crashes ] [ snoring ] [ male announcer ] vicks nyquil cold and flu. the nighttime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, fever, best sleep you ever got with a cold... medicine. when i got my medicare card, i realized i needed an aarp... medicare supplement insurance card, too. medicare is one of the great things about turning 65, but it doesn't cover everything. in fact, it only pays up to 80% of your part b expenses. if you're already on or eligible for medicare, call now to find out how an aarp... medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company, helps cover some of the medical expenses... not paid by medicare part b. that can save you up to thousands of dollars. these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans... exclusively endorsed by aarp.

when you call now, you'll get this free information kit... and guide to understanding medicare, i can keep my own doctor and choose my own hospital. and i don't need a referral to see a specialist. as with all medicare supplement plans, and help pay for what medicare doesn't. call this toll-free number now... bill o'reilly has returned to last night's "rewrite" because last night he confirmed something i told you about him in this space last week. first, recall this little o'reilly-ism. >> if barack obama begins taxing me more than 50%, which is very possible, i don't know how much

longer i'm going to do this. >> that was the threat welcomed around the world, that o'reilly would quit his job if his taxes go up. now, president obama advocates raising taxes on bill o'reilly who, of course, is in the top tax bracket. from the current top tax bracket of 35% to the old clinton top tax bracket of 39.6%. that is the tax rate he is so fearful of now, 39.6% he loses sleep over that. that's the number o'reilly said could make him quit his job. in my first run through this absurdity, i said o'reilly got very, very rich in the '90s when he started his show on fox news and was paying the top clinton tax rate he now lives in fear of. that led me to conclude what o'reilly would do if his taxes go back up.

>> so, o'reilly has actually already proven what he would do if the top tax bracket goes back up to where it was under president clinton, 39.6%. o'reilly would do the o'reilly factor every night and get richer and richer and richer. >> last night cross-examiner john stewart was able to get o'reilly to admit that truth. >> you your show the other night, and i watch you frequently, you say if obama raises your taxes to 50%, which you believe is possible, that you may not do your show anymore. >> right. i might take colbert's place. >> you know he's faking it. >> somebody has to. >> all right. what percentage of that threat is empty? >> all of it. >> you're not going anywhere? >> no, no, no. >> this whole idea that somehow the tax burden would become so onerous on us, that we would

just rather not -- rather not take home $3 million, if we can't get that $3.5 million, [ bleep ]. do you know what i mean? that's crazy talk. i mean, you know it. >> in a part of the interview that appears only on "the daily show" website john stewart manfully tried to get o'reilly to admit the utter absurdity of the republican presidential candidates' positions on taxation. >> every republican candidate for president, the people that want to be the tent posts for that party were offered a choice on the debate stage. $10 of spending cuts for $1 of revenue increase in the form of taxes. every single one of them said no. say right now that that is incredibly irresponsible and you could never support someone that's that, if i may borrow the term, pin-headed?

>> look, i'm not going to generalize about anything. >> o'reilly's not going to generalize about anything? the man generalizes about everything and every part of his show every night. and john stewart's not asking him to generalize. you're watching o'reilly on the ropes now. knowing that john stewart has him cornered and he's just trying to duck. >> i'm not going to generalize about anything. herman cain -- >> that's not general -- that's not general -- i'm telling you what he said. unbelievable. >> here's the reality. top 10% take in 25% of income -- >> and pay how much of the tax? >> but 25 years ago -- >> 30% of it. >> top 1% control 40% of the wealth 25 years ago it was 33%. top 1% have had incomes rise 18% over the last decade. >> so, we should shoot them. >> that is what you call losing a debate.

i mean, falling flat on your face. we're talking about taxing the top 1% of income earners in this country. o'reilly cannot defend his position on it so he has to pretend that jon stewart is advocating that we shoot the top 1% of income earners in this country. o'reilly is in way over his head with jon stewart. he's got absolutely nothing. and he admits he has absolutely nothing. he turns over that car. he gives you the best he has. >> so, we should shoot them. so, we should shoot them. so, we should shoot them. >> that's it. that's the best he has. now, remember, jon stewart did have a huge advantage here. he showed up with facts and he was debating a guy who thinks this is one of the great unsolved mysteries of the universe. >> how did the moon get there? how did it get there? how did it get there?

how did the sun get there? can you explain that to me? how did it get there? who put it there? >> so, jon stewart ran rings around bill o'reilly. and then gloriously spiked the ball in the end zone. >> so we should shoot them. >> i'm not saying we should shoot them. but we shouldn't act like we're turning to the tax rate of the '90s is class warfare on par with lennon and marx. that's what i'm saying! you know what it is? i'm looking out for the folks. look, every day we're using more and more energy.

the world needs more energy. where's it going to come from?

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>> that is a now familiar video first posted on youtube this weekend that shows the out of control police reaction on a peaceful occupation. those women who were pepper strayed filed a complaint and their lawyer has reached out to this woman, jean mansfield, seen her to the left of your screen, who witnessed the entire incident. in an article for the boston review she wrote the protesters

were not the only one shocked by police conduct. one of the blue shirts, tall and bald, stares in disbelief and says, i can't believe he just maced us. she joins me now for her first television interview, jean mansfield, finance manager at boston review. thanks for joining me. >> thanks for having me. >> you were visiting from boston. and you weren't planning, necessarily, to be involved in this demonstration, according to the article i read. you just kind of new it was over there and thought you'd go take a look. is that how you got into it in. >> yep. that is it exactly. >> what did you encounter? what did it feel like initially in the crowd? >> initially joining up. it was a surprise. we meant to go to wall street and we saw a march. it was very carnival-like. everyone was chanting and carrying signs and blowing whistles. the cops were there but not being too aggressive.

at first it was definitely -- it seemed fun and it was a really large group of people and they seemed to be having a good time. >> and in your article you write that when the police started taking out the orange plastic nets that they were going to use for crowd control, you say the light-heart carnival air begins to get very heavy as it becomes clear that we are being corralled. >> yeah, that's definitely what happened. the cops came at us with the intent of -- it felt like we were cows. like he were being corralled, pushed by orange construction nets. wherever they wanted us to go. >> you make a distinction. i've made this distinction on the program that not all of the officers behaved in a violent way or in an out of control way. in your piece you note that a new group of police officers arrives in white shirts. did you know that the white shirts indicated that they were commanders, that they were the high ranking officers? >> no. at first i thought maybe they

were like either local cops or from a different precinct or state cops or something. i didn't pick up immediately that it was rank. >> you said this about the white shirts. you said, these guys are completely undisconcerning in their aggression. if someone gets in their way, they shove them into the first parked car and surrounded by camera phones and shouts of shame, shame, shame. we showed some of that video of the white-shirted guy throwing someone right into the parked car. specifically in one case, because he had a video camera, and he was recording what they were doing. did the people shooting video realize that that very much raised their risk of being arrested and beaten by the police? >> i don't think so. i think maybe in sheer numbers. i remember when i was videotaping the thought crossed my mind, cops won't like me doing this but because everyone had their camera phone, it was like safety in numbers. they won't attack me because everyone is filming. >> you said the blue shirts, the

lower ranking, the patrolmen, as they are called, they weren't out of control and they weren't behaving that way until the white shirts showed up. >> yeah, totally true. at first when they started with the orange nets, they were still blue-shirted beat cops or whatever they were. and they weren't pushing people out of the way. they weren't being violent about it. they were definitely trying to corral us still but they weren't being forceful in an indis indiscerning way. >> what do you think -- could you detect the moment you thought, okay, this -- in has turned. this is now a place where i don't want to be. >> definitely. i mean, it didn't get to the point where i was out of there until the pepper spray came out. but when you have people screaming, forceful arrests after we left union square is with i said, maybe i shun be here. >> you were close to the pepper spray. did you get hit by any of it? >> definitely.

on my left side, i saw it coming or maybe the screaming made me react. i was already turned and the off-spray, i don't know if it was coming off their sprays because they were hit so hard or just the spray from my side. >> it's painful stuff. it's intended to be painful. >> definitely. definitely. definitely no light weapon. i've seen the other videos of the officer spraying some other guy. if looks like he's spraying a dog away from the table. like he's using it like water and it's -- it's very painful. >> jeanne mansfield, thank you very much for joining us tonight. thank you very much for telling your story. >> yeah, thank you. >> you can have the last word online at my blog. "the rachel maddow show" is up next. thank you for staying with us for the next hour.