look at the tea party. look at the congressional approval ratings. and of course, look at the incredible energy in our own mad as hell, get money out campaign. a geyser of energy is erupting around us. we believe this amendment is the harness to take it forward as we near our first-ever digital double of 200,000. we head towards 400 from there. more on that later, but we begin with mad as hell in lower manhattan. what a day. after winning their fight against being thrown out of so-called park cleanup, the newly empowered occupiers, with thousands descending in support, left the park and headed for wall street. hundreds hopping police barriers, clashing with cops. more than a dozen arrested. but as we know, it is by no means just new york at this point. there are, in fact, occupations in nearly 1,700 cities

worldwide, with talk tomorrow of growing to be one of the largest global protests ever. here in the u.s., the protests are largely being led by young americans, many who are drowning in college loan debt. they were promised a college degree was the best way to get ahead. in fact, they were fearmongered into doing it, as they pursued the prestige rather than the learning. but the numbers don't lie. it's great business for colleges and for banks and disastrous for our young people. a little more than 4% of the most recent college grads are registered as unemployed. sounds pretty good, right? but when you look at the actual numbers, 14% cannot find any kind of full-time work and at least, if not more than 20% of those who do find full-time work are working as baristas at starbucks rather than deploying their degree. not that there's anything wrong with going to be a barista at starbucks, but i don't see why you put yourself $30,000 in debt

and go to college for four years to do it. and talk about crushing debt, student loans now surpass credit card debt in this country, and there is no recourse. there is no way out of that debt. the average american college student graduates more than $24,000 in debt, as they are fearmongered in the pursuit of prestigious institutions that may have nothing to do with the skills or needs or learning that is possible today. we start with talia abrams, media spokesperson and one of the founding facilitators of the group, occupy colleges, which has been sweeping this country. also, tamara drought, vice president of policy and programs at the demos think tank. she is author of "strapped: why america's 20 and 30-somethings simply cannot get ahead." talia, tell me what the momentum is like within the community at the occupation where you are and in general. >> okay. well, first of all, thank you, the dylan, thank you so much for having us and helping us promote occupy colleges on your network.

it's just fantastic. the momentum is growing. in the last two weeks, we've had thousands of students, two times in a row, walk out and protest in solidarity with wall street. this completely resonates with us. we are strapped with mounting student debt and lack of opportunities after college, and that's why we are the 99%. >> yeah, and if you look, tamara, the marketing of the -- the fearmongering of pursuit of prestige for infinite debt is a very good way to exploit an 18-year-old, wouldn't you say? >> well, you know, dylan, this is, it's a real tragedy. what we have is this debt for diploma system that, you know, was, i found disturbing, even when we had a good economy, but now that the economy is in the toilet and we have a whole bunch of college grads with $24,000 in student loan debt, who can't get a job, the debt for diploma system is a disaster. and, you know, an important thing here is that, you know, it used to be, you didn't have to

get a college degree in order to have a decent job that paid a good wage and decent benefits. and we told a whole generation, hey, now you've got to go to college and you've got to take out debt to get that degree. and here we have a generation with a big debt burden and, you know, a pretty grim and uncertain future in front of it. so, to me, it's completely understandable why they're doing the occupy college and they're really the backbone of the occupy wall street movement. >> and if you look, natanatalia the direct actions that those in the college community that are taking, that you'll be talking about to confront the system that has disrespected you and so many of those members of your generation, for so long, what is being planned? >> well, as you've said, we're mad as hell and we're not going to stop. we're in solidarity with wall street, and as long as they're out there, we're going to continue organizing students. the next thing that seems to be

growing, a really big consensus is that a teach-in, a time to educate ourselves and our communities what this is all about. we really need to do what schools do best and to educate. >> and if you were to look at the rate of growth, not just in occupy colleges, tamara, but at the occupation in general, how much of it do you think really is an honest reflection of the surge of energy, of frustration? are we watching a pent-up energy play uout before all of our eye? >> yeah. it's been stunning to watch, and i've been down to occupy wall street in new york. and i'm actually here in day tob, ohio, visiting my family. i grew up in ohio. and i've got to tell you, this is a message that really resonates with people across the country. i asked my mom, who's sort of a quintessential swing voters, what do you think of this occupy wall street? and her answer, without even missing a beat was, it's about time somebody's out there standing up for us.

so i think it's a message that's resonating with people and has broad appeal, and it's spot-on in terms of its message about focusing on, you know, we are the 99% and focusing a lot of its grievance on, you know, the fact that our political system does not seem to be able to look out for the common good at this point. >> yeah. and a lot of the reason, obviously, that i believe that, and a couple hundred thousand other folks agree with me, at this point, growing very quickly, is that because of the auction system, by which special interests purchase policy, we could sit here until we're blue in the face and debate the best educational system in the world, as long as it's a threat to somebody in the housing or student finance business, they'll just pay off the government to make sure it does not happen. and natalia, how clear do you think it is in the occupy college community, how incredibly distorting and disruptive to the political debate this auction process has become? >> i think it resonates very

much with us. we actually wrote a letter for get money out. we got together through facebook and really believe that that's the first step. it's an action step. if we can get money out of politics, then we can really start to talk about all these other issues, but, as you've said, if everybody's being bought off, where do we go from there? so we have to make an amendment so people, our government is no longer bought off by the lobbyists and the large multi-national corporations on wall street. >> tamara, do you agree with that? >> i do. i think the fundamental challenge here is, you know, i think everybody in occupy wall street has said this so simply, that we're never going to be able to rebuild the middle class until we get the corporate interests out of our politics, until we have a government who's able to stand up and work on behalf of the 99% of us. so, i do agree. and, you know, unfortunately, it seems like, you know, young

people are laooking at an economic situation that isn't going to provide them with a decent future, and they're dealing with a political situation that isn't providing them with a voice. and so i think they've done the right thing, which is, they've hit the streets. and i think most people across the country are really, really glad they did. >> in your book, what are the things that you highlight as the most egregious offenses to this generation? >> yeah, i mean, there's -- it's hard to name them. the reality is, we've seen a sea change. this generation is dealing with the fallout of three decades of horrible conservative trickle-down economic policies. whether it's disinvesting in our public colleges. you know, when i went to college, dylan, probably you too, you know, it's triple what it used to cost to go to a state college. >> i know, i know. >> absolutely. >> our roads and bridges are in disrepair. you know, you can't get a middle class job today without a college degree. you know, unions have fallen, we've signed trade deals and we

just signed three more that are leaving american workers behind. so, you know, this generation is reaching adulthood at the culmination, sort of the height of all of these bad policies, and at the height of rising inequality and a political system that just doesn't seem capable of listening to the needs of the people. >> and how can you listen to the needs of the people when 94% of the time, the person who raises the most money wins, and the reason the person raises the most money is not because they're listening to the people, they're listening to the people that are paying them. we watched it in bank reform, we watched it in health care reform. we've seen it with energy time and time again. the money comes in from the banks and the health care companies, the energy companies to prevent a real debate that would bring us into the 21st century. one of the things, natanatalia,t i have met from people like yourself, even though i haven't met you personally, but i've met a lot of folks your age and that are similar to your age, just in

the past few weeks, is the way your generation solves problems is so revolutionary relative to the rest of the world in virtue of the openness in the way you do it. you don't sit around and have a meeting and have three people decide what's going to happen. there truly is an embrace of this open source mentality. and it would be interesting to get your thoughts on how it is you think your generation can educate my generation and those older than me as to how significant the change in modern problem-solving really is, which is second nature, i suspect, to a lot of folks your age. >> right, well, i would say that part of it is social networking. the fact that we have been able to communicate on a broad spectrum with each other and see the rest of the world. i mean, that's what's helped it, you know, in tahrir square and all over the world to be able to connect to other youth and see what's going on. i -- one of the main things that we try to do is be more, truly, democratic. i think we've been so frustrated

with what's been going on with washington, seeing what's happened with the daelebt ceili and that our own government can't come to any type of consensus or decision, that it's really helped influence us, that obviously, status quo is not working, and we've had to come up with something else. and i think one of the things the older generations could learn is just to listen. to first observe what we're doing before they comment on our gas and the way we're choosing to organize. because i think it is new and revolutionary, and obviously, like i said before, status quo hasn't been working, so why not try something new? >> and my last comment, natalia, in my own experience so far, it seems everybody has a different reason they are occupying. everybody wants to jam -- the media and the status quo want to jam the occupation into some sort of an agenda, what are your demands?! tell us what you want! when the fact of the matter is, each individual person i have met have a different reason, but they're in agreement there is a breach of a fairness principle.

how confident are you in the your ability and the organization's ability to reject the clientele or classes' desperate desire to categorize you? >> well, my big thing is that we have been around for less than 30 days and they're expecting us to have more answers than our government that's been around for over 250 years. so give us some time. >> hear, hear. you have, as we know, our full support. tamara, congrats, again, on the book. i think it really captures so much of it. if you haven't had a chance to check it out, it's worth it. "strap "strapped: why america's 20- and 30-somethings can't get ahead," tamara draut and natalia abrams. is there a place where people should go? we'll put it on our website for sure. we all know the name. we'll figure it out. coming up here on "the d.r.

show," who's warning democrats not to get too cozy with the occupiers and which obama supporters are trying to take over the occupation. a little of each. plus, the latest skirmish over defense spending cuts. the high-profile veteran lawmaker now fighting to protect the department's budget. and the world on the brink with one low-level employee holding the key to it all. >> i was working on something, but they wouldn't let me finish it, so take a look at it. be careful. >> we'll give you one guess what this new thriller hitting theaters is all about. a sneak peek, and the forces behind it in the moments to come. constipation, diarrhea, gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health.

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well, it's easy for politicians to the try to capitalize on movements like the occupation, protests for their own political gain. so why would the wonky political insiders in d.c. being advising democratic leaders to stay away? they do get a lot of money from the banks, remember. let's ask our friday megapanel. ari melbourne, krystal ball, and toure. krystal, you're the most familiar with democratic establishment in your recent experiences. it's been a few years, but how do you interpret the language and how does the obama administration reconcile its very pro-bank position in terms of both fund-raising, keeping the swaps market in the dark, keeping too big to fail, keeping tim geithner in charge, not doing the mortgage relief, how does that reconcile with occupy wall street? >> well, it's very awkward. on the one hand, the president's obviously trying -- a little bit of an understatement, right? it's a little awkward. but, obviously, the president is trying to move to this more

populous messaging. so on the one hand, he definitely wants to embrace a lot of the messaging coming out of the out of wall street movement, and certainly the energy, while still staying a little bit removed. >> while not gratifying any of their demands and keeping tim geithner in charge of the bank cover-up. on the other hand, there's people in d.c. that say, ari, stay out of this. dangerous. >> i'll give you a handy guide. if you see something that is capitalizing on the benefit to the political force involved, it's probably fake. for example, the dccc put out a so-called position say stand with occupy wall street and circulated this to their people. but what's that about? that's about them harvesting e-mails from people who are politically active so they can hit them up to donate to the so -- >> they're saying we want to get your e-mail to we can solicit you for money. that's what they're doing. >> right. "the new york times" had a front page story this week -- >> weasels. >> had a front-page story citing that, saying they're getting closer. i don't think. on the other hand, if you look at, say, congressman john lewis trying to go down there and

speak to people -- >> his constituents, and say, listen -- >> whether or not he agrees with them, to me that's a sign of a more important political union, in the same way you might go to any political trade group because you think they have power. >> obviously, they're going to tell them, you can't get involved with these people because, what, we need the money from the other side. but why did you really go to washington? did you go to washington to help people and make a difference in this country? then it's clear that you have to be helpful to these people and help be the voice that they need and try to move america forward and not just work with the status quo, which is not necessarily helping america go forward at all. >> when you look at that 94% number and realize what a charade the two-party system has become. >> the good thing is, what we hope out of a movement like this is that they raise issues, that they put pressure on the democratic party that hasn't, quite frankly, been there. they've only been getting pressure from their wall street funders. at least now they have something a little bit coming from the other direction. >> i'm going to move on to defense, because, again, it's a

crazy day. we're sending troops into africa. have you seen this whole thing with the troops in africa? anyway, in addition to that, washington playing defense games, pardon the pun, with our nation's defense spending. today senator john mccain sent a letter to the debt supercommittee urging them to leave the defense budgeting alone. his reason, cutback in spending mean cutbacks to america's safety. be afraid. but what if the opposite was actually true? what if cutbacks and re-allocation of resources actually made us safer and what if what we're doing now made us more unsafe. former congressman and three-star navy admiral joe sestak on this very show just a month ago. >> the real metric of the future for our ability to be the best in the world in military to defend us is not capacity. it's no longer numbers. it really is the capability coming from sensors, comes from the ability to switch information back and forth. and i think you'd have a more efficient and effective military

with even putting less into it. >> and when he made that -- had that appearance, toure, he said, listen, not only are we over-allocates on the wrong things, we are maybe making our things more dangerous with the spend, and in the process, depriving ourselves of the mission-critical available resources in the 21st century open source theater of combat that we are oblifvious too. >> right, right. you can see again with mccain's comment, you say national security, and you can invoke anything including spend more money, give me more money, and allocate it in ways that don't actually make us safer. i want to make sure that we're doing those things that make us safer and not those things that remind the world that we are the world's police and we're going to take care -- >> and look at how much money we're going to spend because we're yippie-ki-yay. >> and you just put the number out there, $964 billion. for reference, at the height of the cold war, adjusted for inflation, $450 billion. so to say that we can't possibly cut or we'll be unsafe, on its

face, it's ludicrous. and to take this back to get money out, we can't have an honest conversation about this with our politicians as long as they're being funded by the defense industry. we don't know when they're being honest and when they're not. >> and there's a specific aspect of that, which we've talked about in the past, which is the defense industry is the greatest leverager of earmarks, because there are defense contracts in every congressional district, so as soon as you try -- if i cut defense spending anywhere, congressman toure is like, well, not in brooklyn, you're not going to cut it, and round and round it goes. if you were to look at the resonance of this narrnarrative because the occupation is authentic, those who want to surround it marnt y or may not authentic, depending on their agenda. the use of the word national security has become nothing more than a political prop for fearmongering and money accumulation. how do you reconcile between the two and what is your sense after ten years after 9/11, ari, of the potency of that

fearmongering on the american people? and are we getting more numb or at least more immunized to that sort of manipulation? >> well, i think this debate is rigged, because, number one, you have this emphasis on the political utility of being pro-security, and that's a very narrow definition, as you're saying. but number two, we have a so-called deficit deal that bakes in these triggers that are automatic cuts to what? to domestic spending, which a lot of people are comfortable cutting, even in a recession, which i don't think is wise. that's my opinion. and then, second, to defense spending, which most politicians don't want to take the heat for. so what's going to happen when we have these two values pitted at each other. in a political way, one is much stronger than the other, the defense spending. obviously, i hate to ruin the end of the movie for everyone watching at home -- >> you've taken it this far. >> but because -- >> you've already told us about, you know --

go ahead. >> they won the battle of words over a deficit. they pushed through a deal that will result in domestic spending being cut and a lot of the defense being saved because of the politics. they won this round. the next round will be whether we move from deficits. >> and they don't want to have the democrats and republicans fight on the way to the bottom of the ocean with all of us attached to the ship. we want to that i can this thing forward. we want to take this thing up and we're not going to let these two political parties and their auction system take our country down. and that really feels like the base message coming out. the panel states. they call you guys the mod squad around here. i can see that. a very glamorous group. next as the president tours a gm plant this afternoon, revenge of the electric car director chris payne joins us as our specialist. how can america get the honest debate we all deserve on real efficiency that is available around the world, and yet we can't seem to get -- i don't know, is that because of money in politics? we're back after this. [ male a, a small town pharmacist

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well, a lovely photo op this afternoon. president obama touring a general motors plant in michigan along with the president of, oh, i don't know, south korea, we just did a rigged trade deal, but we already know about that. it comes just as gm -- hthis is the good news -- is unveiling the spark, the first 100% electric car. they'll go on sale in 2013, with the first shipment coming from, well, you know, south korea. according to the detro"detroit pres press", that said for decades automakers themselves have gone to great lengths to make sure that americans are able to have an honest and open conversation about electric cars, as well as fuel in general, as well as our nation's overall energy policy. this is because they're bought at auction, remember -- yeah, we know. enter chris payne, a journalist,

filmmaker, and director of revenge of the electric car. >> you need to predict the future, prepare for it, if it happens, we'll be ready. >> i want to show the world that it's really possible. >> this is the future and it's attainable. >> chris payne, another man who has taught me a thing or two about efficiency and electric cars, to say the least. 15 years ago, chris, they killed it. today the president of the united states is introducing one and manifesting some of our better talents in terms of innovation and design. your thoughts and response and reconciliation of what you see in this electorate car in the context of all the other trade deals and occupations. >> well, it's ironic they call it the first electric car, because they had one ten years ago, the ev1, and they built that one in lansing, michigan.

>> so i need to correct myself, their second electric car? >> well, you could even argue that the volt is an electric car too. and they're making that in detroit. so you have to give gm credit for seeing they made some mistakes and trying to do a better job. that can make us optimistic. what's unfortunate is there's a lot of pushback on electric cars, the obamamobile or something, they're politicizing even the electric car. they're taking huge risks inside the system -- >> in capitalism. they're risking their own capital, their own resources, and they're making a bet. i mean, carlos goen blows my mind, basically, at nissan, who's tabled nissan's entire business. he's like, we're out of the gas car business, all of nissan, and we're going to be an electric car company. they're not there yet, but that's the sort of risk that's being taken. go ahead, krystal. >> i was wondering if you could take us through your transition. your first video was about gm

and how they were the villain, and they took these electric cars and took them back and destroyed them. and now you have gm introducing an electric car to great fan fair. take us through how that happened? was it market shifts in the environment? how did we end up where we are today? >> general motors should get a lot of credit for developing the ev1 in the first place in the '90s. when they came out, gas prices were at $1.50. reagan came in, gas prices suddenly went down, down, down, down. by the end of the '90s, it was $1.70 for the electric car. people went, why should i buy an electric car when it's so cheap like this. and in the board room at gm and a lot of the truck companies, they were making money. they vetoed these programs, took the cars back, crushed them all. >> and those were the suv exemptions. it was way more profitable to sell suvs than to make cars, so why sell cars that cost a lot and make you $2 when i sell suvs that are $20,000 whatever a pop. >> and they're complaining about

rebates for electric cars now and they were giving huge rebates for hummers and -- so gas prices hit $4 a gallon and they had nothing to sell but the prius from japan, and the carmaker said, we've got to have something. so nissan with the leaf and gm with the volt. and detroit saying, detroit can't do this. ly i will do this and i will be a revolutionary. >> and he took all of the money that he made doing paypal, which is a lot of it, to make this car. this guy's all-in on the tesla. go ahead, ari. >> i like what you're doing. i think you're telling an important story. but we're not just going to do softballs here. soy ho so i hope you're ready. i saw the first movie and i was annoyed that i felt that it was intimating a conspiracy, but not telling exactly what it was. is your claim that at least at that point in time, there was a business conspiracy against the electric car? >> that's a great question, ari. we never used the word

"conspiracy." sony, when they marketed the film, put the word "conspiracy" in the box to help sell it. what actually happened was the oil industry came in to, like, lobby against charging stations in california. and they would create all these phony shell companies and be like, californians against utility abuse, and consumers against utility company waste -- >> using the auction process that is our democracy. >> auction, exactly. and that seems, you know, unfair. you can argue against something, but don't pretend to be something else. >> that's right. >> i want to give you a chance to just put it out on the table. who are the enemies of the electric car? who are the people -- i mean, obviously the gas companies, but besides that, who are the people out there who are saying, i don't want this to happen? >> you know, i think on a deep level, it's, we're all in on it, because nobody likes to change what they're doing. it's really hard to say, you know what, i'm going to try one of these electric cars, it's going to run out of power, it's not like my gas car, i wanted an au audi, it's very difficult for people to shift, and that means the car companies too.

this is a moment where i think it's really an amazing opportunity for people to say, okay, i'm going to try this thing out, it doesn't run on oil, we use domestic energy, forget the environmental argument, if there's coal in the grid, fine. it's not sending the money out to the middle east. it will be an american product and maybe we can create something better here. so that's kind of -- >> and to your point, so you're saying we're all-in on it, is there a demand for these cars? are people willing to give up their old gas guzzlers and jump on the electric bandwagon? >> they will be -- they will be -- they will be -- they will be when gas prices are higher. >> that's right. gas prices will move it. but i think people also need the experience to see that it's actually pretty cool. >> it is pretty cool, actually. >> yeah, really. >> anyway, chris, it's a pleasure. congrats with everything going on with you. nice to see you again. >> thank you for having me. >> toure, ari, be well, be mod, be a squad. >> always mod. >> toure stays. the force is blocking debates like the one that we have every

day, in this case, about electric cars and efficiency. of course, is the unholy alliance between business and private money and our government? and that is the force behind our partnership, now almost 200,000 after less than two weeks to get money out, we both know that we are on the cusp of our first digital double to 200,000. we'll go for 400 from there. those partners, all of us together, each one a little ball of fire, pushing for a constitutional amendment to eliminate money from american politics in the private sector. we're getting there and beyond with your help. we are a singular unit at this point. join the partnership, sign the petition, tell a friend, tell a family member. in fact, this thing seems to make so much sense, i recommend you make a list of everybody you hate and call them and ask them to do it, because i suspect they'll agree with you. also, on "the huffington post," one of our best blogs yet, and certainly one of the most

insightful documents that we have been able to put together on the history of constitutional amendments, it's called constitutional moments, the people's voice. think any and all comers. there is no one whom we do not include in the tent of the principle that is this. history shows what it will take to get an amendment done, to get money out, in organizational focus by a small, but dedicated group and a willingness to build alliances with any and all comers. a massive, unrelenting wave will get it done. after this, talk like this, why am i? explain to you, i will. i'm not a number.

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light is the force. >> here goes nothing, my friends. if talk like yoda i always did, understand me, you would not. but if 50,000 years ago you lived, make sense this would. got that? if not, here's the translation. new research revealing that original human speech patterns may have more in common with yoda's than how you and i communicate today. linguists now believe that all language came from nearly one -- came from one language spoken 50,000 years ago in east africa, and unlike english, which uses the subject, verb, object structure, this first language went subject, object, verb. for example, get money out would translate to money, get out. researchers say our yoda-speak origins weren't surprising, because it's also the pattern children first use when learning to talk. so let us review, people did talk like yoda.

new technology is already allowing the human mind to control stuff, as we reported on wednesday, and scientists just discovered a twin son planet identical to tatowean. and still, no light saber. send us an e-mail if you've got a light saber. up next, a sneak peek of the latest thriller, its target, you guessed it, wall street. >> well, we were wrong. >> no, you mean you were wrong. [ sniffs ] i have a cold. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil

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you cannot be doing what you're thinking of doing. >> sell it all, today. >> you're selling something that you know has no value. >> so that we may survive. there are three ways to make a living in this business. be first, be smarter, or cheat. >> that, a sneak peek of a movie called "margin call." if you haven't figured it out, it's a financial thriller, hitting theaters just a week from today, actually. it follows the first frantic hours of a fictional wall street bank during the height of the '08 crisis and the decisions that would later affect the entire world, in fact, they still affect our world today in poverty and unemployment and all sorts of distorted asset flows. with us now is j.c. chandor and actor in the film, zachary

quinto. thank you for being here. give us a foundation of this. people are going to watch this, is this lehman brothers, goldman sachs, what is this? just tell us. >> it was a mashup. i wanted this to be as universal as possible. it's not lehman brothers, you know, that's sort of out there right now, but prafrankly, in m mind, this bank's still in business and still doing what they do. which is the sort of, you know, kind of intense thing about this film. is they were the first ones to see this coming and they got out. >> yeah, zach, what is it that they do. >> what is it they do in the fi film? >> yes. >> they sell everything. they sell everything they possibly can before it is valueless. so they act very scrupulously -- not so much. but the intention of the movie is not to drag people through the coals or -- >> it's not heroes and villains. >> exactly.

>> it's about a system. >> exactly. and it's about the impact that system has in the people who participate in it either wittingly or unwittingly. >> and what would you say that is? i agree with your narrative, in that we have a breach of principles that we're suffering in this country. we don't have a breach of behavior, per se. there's lots of bad behavior. >> but the behavior is according to the principles that have been established and supported. >> so when you set out to write something like this, what i didn't want to do was sort of head into caricature. i wanted these to be actual real people. my father worked in this business for merrill lynch for 35 years. i lived in communities, you know, with these people, and they go to work like the rest of us and they worry about the same things i do. but they are representatives of a system that we allow to be there. they're there because we allow them. >> how would you define that system? >> a little broken right now. >> a little? >> just a touch. just a little tweak, and this thing will be fine. just a little tweak. >> yeah.

we got some problems. so i think the interesting thing is, this film doesn't, for what i set out to try to do in writing the thing and making it is, it doesn't try and answer the situation. but what it does try to do is actually follow each of these characters up the chain of command of an investment bank, basically follow their decision making, and try to figure out why they decided -- >> what are the pressure on each individual to decide yay, nay, or whatever the thing. >> exactly. or why am i here? why did i agree to keep going along with this. >> and there were so many people that were involved in this catastrophe, who only had one choice, which was to accept the job that they accepted at the firm that they were working at or not. and once they made that choice, it was like a domino. everything else was out of their control, and they were just following their own orders. >> and that's even when we look, writing the banking chapter of the book, i was really focused

on this exact issue, which is, most of the people in the financial system are fundamentally soldiers in a bad war. >> yeah. >> and it would be no different than you would hold a soldier coming back from the iraq war accountable for the atrocities of that war. it is upon all of us to understand that we have a system that is sucking our country dry, but the individuals in this system were encouraged and continue to be encouraged to participate in that system, in a way that has brought them to the top of society, to get the most prestigious universities and families and on and on and on. >> and we -- one of the things that was really interesting for me was zachary character and penn badgley's characters, who are younger in the film, both of those guys are really representative over the last years of the extreme pressure put on our universities, these firms come in and nab the best and brightest. >> they pay money -- they actually pay money to the universities to pick the smartest kids and send them to goldman or whatever it might be. >> that university is there as a

tax-free entity, because we allow it to be there, and we have to decide, is this where we want our best and brightest going? >> i want to talk to you guys a little bit about the actual filmmaking. can i do that for a second? >> please. >> the other thing, obviously, i agree with the narrative of the thing, but the interesting thing about the way you made this film is this. you've got kevin spacey. >> yes. >> he's a big shot. what does he usually cost to get to do a movie? >> you'd have to ask him. he's got to be expensive. >> i can promise you -- >> he's got to cost us a couple of dollars. demi moore, same thing, she can't come cheap. that's a real thing. and when this whole thing was said and done, you did this entire movie, theatrical feature release, we're talking the full magilla movie, $3.5 million. how is that? >> it's about $2.8 after the tax credit, actually. >> that's true. >> so let's call it $2.8. everybody's a greedy bastard, so

what are you doing to do? >> i had this joke the whole time as a producer in the movie, when we decided to get behind this particular story and champion it and tell it, if you're going to make a film about the collapse of the financial institutions, it's only appropriate that you do it in a fiscally responsible way. you know, we don't have any inflated motorcycle chases or car chases or people, you know, jumping off of buildings or anything. j.c. wrote a really, really containing story. we were really lucky to inhabit the vacated office building of a hedge fund on the 42nd floor, 55,000 square feet in the middle of penn plaza, which allowed us to contain our whole production. we so the in 17 days. so -- >> but it also seems like there's a trust thing with these actors, where they basically are -- if the 21st century currency is trust and integrity, and it sounds like you guys have a tremendous amount of that currency, because you have been able to attract a tremendous amount of resources for not that much money. and i'm sorry to interrupt. >> no. >> one of the neat things about

the budget, frankly, is it allowed us to have complete control. we had -- the more money you bring into something, the more responsibility you have to pay it back. and that's true in the film business and any other business. so we kept that budget down, and that is what actually allowed these actors to feel comfortable. they really liked the script and the story that we were trying to tell, and that's every word that we put down was exactly what we wanted to do. and you know, there was tremendous pressure, sort of -- we had an opportunity to make this film a year and a half before we did, for probably 50% more than we did, and they wanted zachary's character to turn in spacey's character and take him away in handcuffs. >> that's not right. >> it ain't going to happen and it didn't happen. because we know that that didn't happen. >> i think they already made a movie about -- >> yeah, exactly. we felt that wasn't representative -- >> i've got to go. they're yelling in my ear. you guys got to go, we've got to go.

stay for one second, though. the film, "margin call," j.c. cand candor, jack quinto, producer, actor, movie star, writer, producer. check it out. "hardball's" coming up. he's asking if mermhe herman ca pull a rocky and upset romney? not if romney pulls out the 8-8-8 plan. gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health.

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toure is here. you can see this. and it's time for the daily rant. >> we may be in the age of obama, but we're in the moment of herman cain. right now, his time.

that time's probably going to end in a few weeks, but in the most recent nbc/"wall street journal" poll of republican voters, the pizza man's got 27%, mitt romney's got 23, rick perry's got 16. he's going down! but when i look at the hermanator, i don't see presidential, not at all! i see somebody who reminds me of flavor flave. do you remember him? with public enemy. the height man. one of the most intellectual groups of all time, public enemy. he went on to start a series of ridiculous reality shows, but how are these two men alike? there are so many ways. first, they're both clowns performing within a serious milieu, flave public enemies is there playing the wise fool. afterwards, he started the straight-up fool to keep the cameras focused on him. herman cain is part of an important national conversation, but who will be the presidential nominee at a critical moment in history, and yet he's out there calling black people brainwashed

because we aren't down with the conservative movement. really?! denigrating black intelligence on the public stage? come on, man. it would hurt if we took him seriously. number two, both flave and cain are media whores. flave is an admitted public whore. i once asked him in an interview if he thought he was on his reality shows, and he said, hey, i'm on tv. wow. cain, too, seems willing to say anything to get the spotlight on him. he recently said obama's never been part of the black experience in america. so now obama's not black enough? that's ridiculous, but more importantly, what does it have to do with the country and the business of running it over the next four years? nothing! just a way to get people talking. number three, flavor flave infamous did crack. he admit head used to spend $2,600 a day on the stuff.

i think cain sometimes talks as if he's on crack. case in point, he recently said racism doesn't hold anyone back in a major way anymore. sounds like he's smoking it to me. is he unaware of the systemic inequalities baked into the fabric of america that assure that millions of black americans have no chance to succeed? i think cain is another carnival barker whose long-shot campaign has improbably caught fire, but he lacks the structure and the money that's needed to win. but, hey, it's all good for book sales. look, the guy is paddling as fast as he can, aiming to make waves any way he can. but ultimately, he will fall in the water and he will sink. >> what would he do, do you think, in the face of like an 8-8-8 plan? >> i don't know! >> something like the seven-minute abs, the six-minute abs. >> we caught the imagination with a really simplistic plan and continuing the