we asked you at the top of the show what you were doing up at this hour. rob, what are they saying? >> libby writes, waiting to have my my abscess tooth pulled this morning. >> also new demo, people with abscess teeth. >> courtney writes, i'm 7 months pregnant, and my baby girl felt the need to do aerobics at 5:00 a.m. this is my fourth child, and i always get more sleep after they're born. being pregnant feels like you've swallowed a small woodland creature. >> my wife said it was like they were taking karate lessons in there. good luck with the baby. "morning joe" starts right now. we're having a -- andy warhol primary where everyone is leader for 15 moneys. and it's cain's turn today. and it's not clear he's got staying power. he's strolling for president without an infrastructure.

it's pretty and cute and nice, and whether or not it works, we can be doubtful. >> good morning. it is monday, october 17th. with us onset, we have msnbc and "time" magazine political analyst mark haleprin, we also have the director of earth institute dr. jeffrey sachs, author of "the price of civilization." reawakening american virtue and prosperity. >> he said the price of civilization is, 9-9-9. >> there you go. >> everybody's coming together here. >> also from washington, the political writer for the "huffington post," sam stein. good to see you. we have so much to talk about. >> we really do. what do you think about what george wills said? this 15 minutes of fame for herman cain? >> well, i was thinking that. i have to say uh i had a probably over the top mocking tone on friday about herman cain.

>> are you saying that because people were really rude to you saturday night when you went out to dinner with you? was i not supposed to do that on air? mika got cornered -- >> that was about occupy wall street. that was a really good conversation. >> i'm sorry, you said you were too mocking on friday? i think i was the one that was mocking. and i want to say to everyone who thought i was too mocking. i'm sorry, you don't understand politics. there i've done it again. >> here's the thing. here's the thing -- >> he's strolling -- like george wills said. he's strolling for president. >> i had dinner with really smart people, like the people -- >> oh, really? unlike the people willie and i go to dinner with. >> it was a step up from the morning. people who run the world. >> i thought we ran the world. >> and they love herman cain. >> they do not. >> i'm serious. i spent the whole weekend reading on him and i'm still

trying to figure it out. >> i've got to tell you, there's something to this guy. gary danielson, our good friend over at cbs. i was e-mailing him during the game and telling him he was doing a good job. and he said, listen, all of his ideas don't line up, but i like that guy. a lot of people are saying they like that guy, that's great. i like santa claus. but herman cain and this 9-9-9 thing is an absolute joke. i said that about michele bauchmann, and people got upset. and he is strolling for president. >> strolling. >> you look at the amount of time logged, the effort logged in the early states, he's not there. he was in tennessee the other night. he's on a book tour. and while he's on a book tour, he's saying things like he's going to put up electric fences that -- >> no, he was just kidding. >> that kill illegal immigrants. >> he was kidding. >> that's some kind of joke. >> he's running in an unconventional way. >> that's a polite way to say

it. >> the way to look at him is less as a nominee and more as like occupy wall street. something's happening in this country right now. and people are reacting to it in ways that are elevating herman cain, elevating these protesters. he is tapping into people's desire to have somebody from outside washington at the center of the republican party. >> and doesn't matter whether they know how washington runs or not. you would think the republicans that have been saying for years that barack obama was ill-equipped to be president of the united states, which he was, would not then run to sarah palin and michele bauchmann and herman cain and a group of candidates who were ill-equipped to run washington and this country. speaking of occupy. willie geist was at occupy nashville on saturday night. >> is that why your voice is hoarse this morning? >> no, just teetering on the edge. >> that was a good game. >> they played close. but herman cain was in the state

of tennessee. you're reading the papers in tennessee. they like him a lot. >> they love him. >> he had an event over the weekend. i should be pointed out, one after another, you read the quotes in the paper. we love this guy, he speaks our language, we relate to this guy. and some people who said they were obama supporters coming in and saying i like the cut of this guy's jib. he may not win, but he's got people out there who like him. now, his defensive 9-9-9 on "meet the press" is another matter where he says the 9% sales tax only applies to new goods not used goods, like new groceries. >> be creative, there are used groceries out there. >> like day old, i guess? >> and last night, really quickly. st. louis cardinals continue their unlikely run. they were what? ten out in august? >> 10 1/2. >> now they're going to the world series. that's exciting. >> okay. we'll get to sports in sports.

we have too much to talk about. i want to ask sam stein about the occupy wall street protests that are one month old and took a global turn over the weekend. 951 cities in 82 countries were scheduled to take part in demonstrations after online organizers called for a worldwide rally. the mayor of rome said $1.4 million in damage was done after riots broke away from a peaceful protest smashed windows and torched vehicles around the city. >> that will help with the construction industry now. >> oh, lord. now stop it. >> if you have to rebuild rome because people burned it down, that's a plus up. this occupy wall street group -- look at that. they are creating new jobs. >> that's rome. >> yeah. >> back here in new york, following that massive time square demonstration in time square that netted 70 arrests, occupy wall street organizer announced the group has received close to $300,000 in donations, plus storage space loaded with

donated supplies in lower manhattan. the donated goods are being stored "for a long-term occupation." at the dedication for the martin luther king memorial yesterday, president obama suggested the slain civil rights leader would support the activists. >> dr. king understood that peace without justice was no peace at all. that lining our reality with our ideals often requires the speaking of uncomfortable truths. and the creative tension of nonviolent protests. if he were alive today, i believe he would remind us that the unemployed worker can rightly challenge the excesses of wall street without demonizing all who work there. >> all right. so sam stein, saturday night with my friends, a heated debate about occupy wall street. and the ultimate question was whether or not you agree with them, whether or not you think they have a message. who is occupy wall street going to hurt? obama or the republican candidate? >> well, it's been telling to

watch. i was in new hampshire on monday and tuesday and following around mitt romney. and in the first stop, he was asked about this. and he suggested he was uncomfortable with it, thought it was counterproductive, he didn't get what they were about. and within 24 hours, he was saying they sympathized with it. and my guess is people look at this and say, wow, it's a popular movement, it's a populous movement. gets at a lot of voters' angst and i want to be a part of it or at least have myself associated with it. it's almost like a race to join it but with your hand held out ever so slightly because you don't want to be part of that. but, you know, it's fascinating to watch. and herman cain bringing it back there, he was one of them, as well. he said they have only themselves to blame for their s joblessness, and within ten hours -- >> you have to put a caveat there. you said you should march at the white house, but also talked about how the white house should have an electrified fence that

would kill anybody that would get too close to that fence. >> that is such a silly idea. but wouldn't that be a great boom to the rubber ladder industry? >> exactly. there you go. >> rubber ladder industry -- >> we are taking lemons and turning it into lemonade this morning. what do you think of the protests where they've gone over the past week? and the global impact? >> i think they're real. and i think they're tapping into something very significant and it's more than inequality. they're talking about illegality on wall street. you have to remember how many crimes the major banks have committed, how many fines they've been paying. jpmorgan, goldman sachs, hundreds of millions of dollars of fines for breaking the law. and i think that a lot of those who were criticizing don't really understand this. i was down there myself this weekend. it's not about envy.

it's about disgust about how wall street misbehaved. >> who was down there? >> i'm sorry? >> who was down there. describe what you saw. >> it's a mix of people, but it's a lot of young people, a lot of students. a lot of people very, very unhappy about how wall street broke the economy, how they cheated, how they made these toxic assets which led to massive bankruptcies. how they created this financial bubble. and "wall street journal," which unbelievable doesn't get it says i don't understand why they were protesting jpmorgan. jpmorgan paid $150 million in fines for packaging this toxic junk which had knowingly sold to its clients so that a hedge fund could bet against it. goldman sachs did the same thing. "wall street journal" said why should people be protesting john paulson who made billions of dollars individually by packaging junk? so i think this is the point that people don't really want to

see this isn't about envy, this is about the criminality of the financial sector. it got out of control, completely de-regulated. this is serious stuff. and i think when you come to, by the way, to herman cain, i think frankly -- >> by the way, i like the way you say that, the herman cain. when you come to the herman cain phenomenon. this is the normal way of politics. he's being backed by david koch. this was what was revealed yesterday as the most important part of the herman cain story. >> he has previous ties to the kochs. >> for five years, he's been on the payroll, close to david koch. that's the real story of american politics this year in the republican party is that the koch brothers are behind almost everything. it's their money, which is fueling all of this extreme right position. and that's the real story in politics. >> you were also down -- at wall street, you were down at wall street, as well, occupy wall

street. you went in to get heileman. >> i went for the secondhand fumes. >> what did you see down there? >> the demonization of the group. >> his past associations, that's who he is. >> it's not what fueled his presidential -- >> that's what's fueling -- >> you can't say that's who he is. people that are filling up barns in tennessee, they don't even know who the koch brothers are. >> but the guy behind him that is financing all of this -- >> he hasn't raised any money. >> he has a phony tax plan behind him that gets to whip up koches all of the koch network. i >> what i'm saying is that's not what's fueling -- >> that's not what -- if you want to say he's had associations with the koch brothers, that's one thing. if you want to say that's who he is, that's no more fair than picking somebody -- picking

barack obama and finding a connection with george sorros and trying to turn -- no, you were trying to this situation into something that glenn beck tried to turn and say -- no, yes, you are. glenn beck would take an association with george sorros and attach him to a candidate and turn both of them into the boogieman and then attack. and i say that respectfully. >> no, let me explain why. this 9-9-9 is part of the whole idea that koch has been pushing for years. just cut taxes, cut taxes. this is a campaign that's been going on -- >> go after the idea. >> ai'm just saying, where did the idea come from? who made it? who financed it? that's why it's not going to last. >> not the koch brothers. i can tell you in '96 or '97, i

was saying abolish the irs, let's have a national sales tax, this idea has been around for a very long time. >> and it's being heavily financed right now. >> i wish i would have known them back then if they would have paid me money for saying things i believe, i would have been happy about it. i understand. if you want -- if i'm all for drawing lines and figuring out who is financing whom. i just think it's very unfair to say this is who herman cain is. and i've been harsh on herman cain, obviously. but i don't think you can just say because there is that connection -- and there is that connection, and people need to know there's that connection. >> in terms of occupy wall street, i found it totally inspirational. it's a little smelly, disorganized, and they're serving themselves by saying we have to be nonhierarchy. they could be a bigger force if they were organized. but the idealism and focus not on envy and not on anger, but on wanting america to be better is

extraordinarily inspirational. >> the president may more explicitly wrap himself in the movement this woke. do you think that will be what he'll do? and is that a smart thing to do? >> i think he probably will. and it's smart if done the right way. capture the idealism and the unhappiness with the status quo and a reform. there are people considered on the right who would agree with a lot of the a agenda of the people downtown. they think t.a.r.p. was a bad idea, they think the banks have too much power. that is not a narrow left-wing agenda. that's a broad agenda if you can avoid being tainted with some of the things about the movement that are less mainstream. >> did you hear -- first of all, we've invaded another country. we went to africa. i don't know if you heard that. >> mini invasion. >> mini invasion of africa. isn't that cool? yeah, we've invaded another country on another continent,

dropping drones on like 28 countries that we're not declared war with. syria -- and by the way also -- also, and i find this, sam stein, absolutely stunning. no, we are killing americans. now terrorists, suspected terrorists, but we are killing americans with drones. we killed two americans with drones. i bring this up only to say that 85% of americans are probably glad we killed those two americans. but no due process, no declared war, and here's the kicker, no rationalization from the white house. they won't even come out and describe the legalities of that. i will just say a few words and then do a dot, dot, dot, dot. had george bush done this, dot, dot, dot, dot. could you imagine the "new york times" editorials? could you imagine the sunday spreads? we killed two americans, we're invading countries all over -- i mean this has run amuck.

and you know what code pink's doing right now? they're in ft. lauderdale. where is the anti-left movement? now they're playing shuffle board. seriously, sam stein, the hypocrisy is stunning. >> let me talk. i want to hear, sam, defend it. defend it. >> well, no, i'm not going to defend it. i think joe is absolutely right. i will say there are some ideologically consistent people that are writing nasty articles about the obama administration. we did a big -- we did a big piece on the drone killings and the illegalties of it, and you're right, if this were the bush administration, not coming out with a rationalization or justification for what they were doing, they would be absolutely skewered. and, you know, this is one of those underwritten stories, which is that the obama foreign policy for all of the bemoaning of people in republican circles is very much a continuation of bush in very key aspects.

>> i think actually it's an acceleration of bush and cheney. when you look at the drone attacks into more countries where we haven't declared war. and jeffrey sachs, i want us to think about the legality first of all, of dropping drones into whatever country you want to drop and vaporizing two americans sitting in a car with a -- again, two very bad americans, mind you. but you can't have it both ways. you can't run as a crusader against bush/cheney's war on terror and then amp it up the way they have. >> well, this is foreign policy by the pentagon. and it is a continuation of the bush administration. and it is an expansion, and it's not leading to any results. that's the real point. we just keep -- >> well, we got bin laden. >> we keep getting deeper and deeper into a mess. we're wasting a phenomenal amount of money. the wildfire is spreading because it's not only

afghanistan, it's not only pakistan, it's yemen, somalia. >> dot no forget uganda. >> i don't know if it's an invasion, but it is a reflection of the fact we don't have a coherent policy. >> you don't thu al qaeda's weaker than it was? >> i think that terrorism and the risks are widening and the violence is widening, and the situation in the horn of africa is made far more disastrous by famine, droughts, climate change, the lack of attention to underlying grim realities there that we pay no attention to. and in an environment where tens of millions of people are near death from starvation, the idea that you're going to stabilize the situation by drone missiles is just not a very accurate one. so i think the pentagon doesn't know what it's doing, unfortunately. it does know how to send drone missiles, but it doesn't know

how to help change an unstable environment. >> well, there is this. the associated press is reporting the white house is abandoning plans to keep troops in iraq past the year-end withdrawal. it would essentially end the war in iraq which began in 2003. 160 active duty soldiers will remain in the country at the u.s. embassy. military officials say the dea departure could a allow for training in the future. >> we do need to rebuild the world right now instead of rebuilding america. and we define rebuilding by blowing things up and building it shoddily. >> you know what we need? >> what? >> a global perspective on all of this. coming up, susan and david axelrod will join the set later.

up next, the top stories in this morning's politico playbook. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning, mika. hope you and everyone else had a wonderful fall weekend. the weather cooperated in most cases, but we're going to watch things changing. our focus is now in the gulf of mexico where it looks like a tropical storm is forming. the hurricane season's not over with yet. this one's going to head up to the panhandle of florida or the west coast of florida. it's not going to do a lot of damage, but a lot of wet weather there along the east coast. today, florida, tuesday through the mid-atlantic, wednesday, up the eastern seaboard. that's where all the nasty weather will be this week. as far as the forecast goes today, no problems in the big cities on i-95. buffalo, pittsburgh, you look great too. along with our friends in ohio and michigan. chicago, not bad today. all the wet weather today in the southeast. still, one more hot day for you in dallas. then you'll cool it off. heat, phoenix, arizona, summer

hasn't ended, you're going to be 100 today blazing in the sun. you're watching "morning joe." we're brewed by starbucks. fix it or find a new job, all right? i got it, i'm sorry. these people, huh? you know i've found that anger is the enemy of instruction.

you don't know the egos that i have to deal with. you're probably right. thank you! whoever you are. i'm pretty sure that was phil jackson. he's quite famous... million championships... triangle offense innovator... [ male announcer ] the audi a8. named best large luxury sedan. nice wheels zen master. thank you...todd. ♪ it's real milk full of calcium and vitamin d. and tastes simply delicious. for those of us with lactose intolerance... lactaid® milk. the original 100% lactose-free milk.

a new security program being tested at boston's logan airport in which tsa agents try to screen out possible terrorists by talking to travelers and asking questions such as where are you going? and how long are you staying? then they simply arrest anyone who answers to be with ala for all eternity. the white house on thursday made the first attack on mitt romney's presidential campaign saying on many issues romney is stunningly inconsistent. romney fired back calling the charges absolutely false as well as absolutely true.

25 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with the financial times. france and germany have less than a week to finalize terms ending the euro zone sovereign debt crisis. ahead of the european summit next week. primary negotiations is how to handle greece's debt. >> are they going to take care of that, dr. sachs? >> a week's a little short. that's the problem. they're going around in circles. they had a deal back in july and backed off of it, now they're scrambling. >> all right. the "new york times" is reporting today that israel's released the names of the first group of more than 400 palestinian prisoners that are going to be released in exchange for a soldier held by hamas since 2006. most of the to be released prisoners were serving life sentences for manslaughter and murder. turning now to our parade of papers. "the oklahoman," the u.s. is

funding training journalists overseas. four grants of more than $1 million will be awarded to schools partners with afghan universities developing journalism curriculum. and the "orlando sentinel," the number of students receiving a free or reduced price lunch in central florida public schools is skyrocketing, up 8% from just four years ago. as many as 222,000 students in a five-county region now eat lunch for just a few cents every day. >> well, we need to work on that. now time for politico. >> turn to politico. >> patrick gavin down in the d.c. area for us. >> so studio, look at all of those books he's got behind him in his library. >> he was challenging me on twitter to work out. >> it's the fakery of television. >> feline law, you never knew,

but there's -- >> i have to change my mind, after i saw that video of you working out with joe not working out, i have no interest in working out side by side with you. >> seriously, is that not frightening how in shape she is? >> that was very scary to watch. that was -- did you do all of those stadium stairs? >> yes, she did. >> every single one. it was fun. >> joe, did you eat all of those big macs? >> yes, i did. i ate them all. >> kudos to you both. >> and i would say i would do it again, but that would suggest i'm not -- i am doing it again. >> what's the name of that stadium in i love it. . >> you can rename it the trent richardson stadium now. >> we'll talk about that in sports. >> let's talk money ball, actually. >> really? >> you have a report on politico saying house majority whip kevin mccarthy is turning to the book, the michael lewis book

"moneyball" for inspiration in tackling the economy. >> inspiring couple of folks around town for better or for worse. kevin mccartney is introducing a bill. and he says instead of sort of using the big headline-grabbing jobs indicators like $800 billion stimulus package or $400 billion jobs bill, which he says is the yankees way of throwing a away money, he would rather focus on more specific or different criteria like number of start-ups created, factories created, how long it takes to get a drug approved in this country, compared to other countries. on top of that, the assistant director says actually "moneyball" could provide good lessons for washington on how to do more with less. even michael lewis said he didn't totally want to associate himself with the conversations but did say there's one lesson from his book that washington could use.

it is to have a heightened awareness of your limited resources. i think all guys would be wise to realize that going against the yankees success is probably not a good strategy. and those 2002 oakland a's, don't forget, didn't win the world series. >> no, they lost to the new york yankees. dr. sachs, the president's jobs bill, does that strike you as a targeted moneyball type project? >> i would go on the money dump side. and what is a one-year temporary tax cut really about our job situation? that was the problem. it's gimmicks for everybody. what can you do by next november? >> sort of the legislative equivalent of a.j. burnett, right? >> don't bring him up. we'll talk about -- >> at least a-rod comes through in the clutch. >> i have no defense. patrick gavin, we'll leave you to your law books. thanks so much. >> thanks, guys. still ahead, the st. louis cardinals.

>> whoa! what a story! holy cow. >> an improbable run just to get into the playoffs, now in the big dance. did you see this? the lions and 9ers playing the game of the day? and the fight continued after the game. the coaches handshake gets ugly. today in the nfl when we come back.

welcome back to "morning joe." we begin sports today on a solemn note. the racing world is mourning one of its own. dan wheldon, just 33 years old, died minutes into a race at the las vegas motor speedway on sunday after his car got tangled up in a fiery, 15-car pile-up. his vehicle flew over another hitting the catch fence just outside turn two. track officials announced wheldon, had in fact died. three other racers were injured in the crash.

what you're seeing right here is the drivers on theirs insistence returning to the track for a five-lap tribute to wheldon. wheldon's peers shared afterwards what he meant to their community. >> it's been happening for years, for ages, for decades. and it's just hard to swallow. you've got to move on. i don't think any of those drivers that lost their lives would like for us to quit. we're not quitters, we're racers. eventually we're going to have to turn the page and remember him with a great -- with memories that we've got and go on. >> the risk is there, we all know it. it just doesn't change reality when it happens, though. we're all very sad. he's a friend. he'll be missed. and i just feel for his family. >> danica patrick speaking there. dan wheldon was a 16-time

champion, won the indy 500 twice, which was his dream and did it twice. once in 2005 and once this year, he was 33 years old. and a lot of what you're seeing in the sound bites from danica patrick and others is feeling for him and knowing it could be them at any moment. it's a game of sport and inches. >> yeah, and he leaves behind a wife and two kids. so sad. >> terrible, terrible story. we'll move on a bit here. in baseball, the st. louis cardinals are heading back to the world series. last night they beat the brewers in milwaukee, 12-6. david frieze grew up outside st. louis, hit this home run in last night's game was named the series mvp. three homers, nine rbis. the cardinals' trip to the postseason, an incredible one. consider on august 24th, they were 10 1/2 games back of the wild card. >> thank you, atlanta braves. >> they eventually went on to

win 23 of their last 32, the anti-braves to make the playoffs. game one wednesday night, the cardinals will play texas rangers. that series begins in st. louis. >> we've been saying facetiously since the beginning of the year, you know, i've been calling the red sox the little engine that could, you've been talking about the yankees, a bunch of kids that play for the love of the game. the cardinals -- i'm so excited for that. but let's tip our hat to the real engine that could, the milwaukee -- >> brewers. >> a small-market team. you even listen to uecker call a game there and it's like listening to baseball in the 1960s. with all the sponsorship. it is such a small market team, what they did was incredible. >> yeah. they've got great young players, you hope they can hang on to some of them. and great fans. people who know say that's the best building, the best atmosphere in baseball. st. louis isn't bad either. they'll be hosting the world series. >> great place for a brat and a

brew. >> and sometimes that gets ugly, not quite as ugly, though, the ending of a game. >> how odd does it sound to say the game of the day was the l lions and the 49ers. but it was. fourth quarter, down two points. matt stafford puts the lions up on top, burleson for a touchdown. time ticking down, though, alex smith hits walker for a touchdown with less than two minutes to go. 49ers beat the lions 29-19. a hearty handshake and slap on the back. jim schwartz. schwartz thought he was smacking him around in a disrespectful manner. he chases him down the field, giving him an earful trying to get to him. >> i love the lions this year, i love their story. >> the players, the coaches --

media getting in between this guy. >> has this guy ever coached a football team before? >> he will not let it go. pushing and shoving a little bit there. >> embarrassing. >> both coaches spoke about the incident. >> went to congratulate the coach and got shoved out of the way, and didn't expect -- didn't expect an obscenity at that point. it was a sproiz to me urprise t end of the game. >> who shoved you and who shouted the obscenity? >> i'll leave it there. >> i shook his hand too hard and i really went in. and it was a strong, you know, kind of slap grab handshake. it was kind of like same as i'd been doing with kastanza. >> that one's on me, says

harbaugh. that's ten seconds after the game ended. >> you look at harbaugh, and it was like, listen, i was pulling for the lions. i love the lions story this year, but the coach, it's so bushly. >> he's a great coach, but come on, somebody needs to put him on something to level him out. >> i think he knows this morning it was wrong. >> he needs to apologize to the people of detroit. they're incredible people. this is a great story to cheer on. he does that to embarrass them. let's show last night, the sunday night game. the only reason to show you this, the vikings are terrible, but you might want to stop kicking to him, i would suggest. this one 98 yards for a touchdown. this year, between kickoffs and punts, he has 15 return touchdowns. >> it's amazing. >> that's an nfl record. bears handle the vikings 39-10.

and before we go, joe, we've got to show these new bcs standings. the first bcs standings of the season. lsu, number one, alabama, joe, number two, oklahoma, three, oklahoma state, four, boise state, five. >> the coaches can't knock them down to three. >> the coaches like oklahoma. >> can you believe the coaches have alabama at number three? would you not be embarrassed if you were a coach voting alabama number three? >> that will all get straightened out in two weeks when lsu plays alabama. >> put those top five up again. >> we've got so many must-reads. g [ man ] i got this citi thank you card

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advice to him would be two things to do. one, get some rest. when you're tired. every time i made a serious mistake, i made a serious mistake politically and i've made them, it's been when i'm tired. and the second thing is, get somebody in there who will really give it a good scrubbing who will play these individuals -- who will play romney, for example, and really put it to you so that you're prepared for any question that comes up. >> all right. >> get some sleep. >> we could all use a little sleep. >> that's good advice. you learn from your mistakes, but rick perry does lose a lot of energy about ten minutes in. so maybe if he rests up a little bit. >> he could. he could. there are so many good must reads from the weekend. >> every time he starts to fade -- >> a lot of the articles talk about, i think have been the conversations at this table and certainly ones i had over the weekend about what the heck occupy wall street is. >> yeah. >> i don't understand people who

don't understand what it is. >> i don't understand people who don't understand people that don't understand. why don't we read it? >> nick kristoff explains it really well. and i have some pieces of the speech my dad did in normandy this weekend -- >> you're not going to read them, are you? >> no, i'm not. because they're a little bit too complicated for this group. >> dr. sachs here, that's an insult. i think we're out of time. >> nick kristoff, let me break it down for you. he says the frustration in america isn't so much with inequality in the political and legal worlds as it was in arab countries although those are concerns too. here the critical issue is economic inequity. according to the cia's own rankings of countries by income inequality, the united states is more unequal a society than either tunisia or egypt. three factoids underscore that

inequality. the 400 wealthiest americans have a greater combined net worth than the bottom 150 million americans. possess more wealth than the entire bottom 90%. in the bush expansion from 2002 to 2007, 65% of economic gains went to the richest 1%. joe? >> you know, dr. sachs, the rich have always been with us. but when i was growing up, my parents would be able to say look at those rich people. live in those big houses. one day if you work hard, that's going to happen to you. i think the problem here is not so much the rich is a fact that the middle class, where i came from, the working class where i came from, it just keep -- it just keeps falling further and further and further behind. and that american dream of bettering yourself seems to be more and more remote. and that's causing the anger. that's causing the resentment.

that's causing the real worries. >> at the middle of the income distribution, there have been no gains in full-time earnings of men since 1973. we've been 38 years of stagnation at the middle of the income distribution. the big gains went to the top. but the thing that's really fueling this is not only that, it's the fact that at the top, they broke the rules badly. they're paying hundreds of millions of fines, there's criminality, and then they got bailouts. so it's everything. it's the whole gaming of the political system. >> perfect. >> let's add one more point to that, though. after they got bailouts, they made record profits. >> right. >> after they got bailouts from us, they turned around, paid off the loans, but made record profits. >> well, the federal reserve gave them trillions of dollars of loans at zero interest rates. that's a nice thing to have. >> free money. >> and then the white house invited wall street back in to run the show again.

so it's all compounded. it's not just the inequality, it's the unfairness of how the political system works. >> we all can agree on that? democrat, republican here. then now we take it a step further and he goes on to write this. economists used to believe that we had to hold our noses and put up with the high inequality as the price of robust growth. but more recent research suggests the opposite. inequality not only stinks, but also damages economies. in his important new book, robert h. frank of cornell university cites a study showing among 65 industrial nations, the more unequal ones experience slower growth on average. likewise, individual countries grow more rapidly in periods when incomes are more equal and slow down when incomes are skewed. that's certainly true of the u.s. we enjoyed considerable equality from the 1940s to the '70s and growth was strong. since then, inequality has surged and growth has slowed.

>> there are a lot of reasons why that happened. historical reasons. but no, that does make a lot of sense. sam stein, what do you think? >> well, just from the perspective of my generation or people who might be younger than me. a lot of it is that we put such an emphasis on education. you get a degree, you take out loans, you get a post graduate degree, take out loans. and the actual number of jobs that match the education you get are dwindling. that's the darwin economy. you're competing, a lot more competition for a lot fewer positions. and it seems like the best paying jobs, the ones where you can retire the debts you incur happen to be on wall street. and there's this emphasis on going into the financial sector if a lot of us, for a lot of youth, it's a false choice. you end up doing a job that actually doesn't produce much material good for society. and so i think a lot of the youth frustration comes with that. you take up so much debt and there's not an economy for you there. >> sam, thanks. we'll be right back. mika, what's up next?

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please tell me it's time. >> it's time for the news you can't use. former president bill clinton celebrating his 65th birthday and the tenth anniversary of the

clinton growth initiative was serenaded by someone named lady gaga. >> okay. >> i just thought we all would get caught up in a a little bill romance. ♪ caught in a bill romance ♪ caught in a bad romance ♪ i want your love and i want your revenge ♪ ♪ i want your love i don't want to be friends ♪ ♪ i don't want to be friends >> bill, i'm having my first real marilyn moment. i always wanted to have one. i wish you were playing sax with

me tonight, baby. ♪ i need a man -- >> saying i wish you were playing sax with me tonight, baby. and if you look to his right, the secretary of the state to his left, and he's going, lady gaga, chill, not cool. not cool. she renamed her song "bill romance." good time. president clinton got on stage afterwards and very wisely said i'm the luckiest guy in the world, lady gaga here, more importantly, secretary of state with me here tonight. former senior adviser of the mccain/palin campaign, steve schmitt is joining us next. [ inner voice ] establish connection. give me voice control. applications up.

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do you think that mitt romney is going to be the nominee who president obama faces? >> i really don't know. i think there's this question about what his core principles are. he's been running for office for almost 20 years for the senator and governor of massachusetts. then he was a pro-choice pro-gay rights, pro-environmental candidate for office, then decided to run for president, did a 180 on that. time and time and time again he shifts. and you get a feeling there's no principle too large for him to throw over in pursuit of political a office.

>> welcome back to "morning joe." mark haleprin and jeffrey sachs are still with us along with sam stein in washington. but joining the table, former senior adviser to the mccain/palin campaign steve schmidt now an msnbc political analyst. >> here we've got herman cain, 9-9-9, it's everywhere. >> it is everywhere. >> branded on the subconscious of america. this is huge! this is herman cain mania. it is sweeping america from coast-to-coast. kids are asking their mom and dad, buy me a godfather's pizza and make a $9 contribution to this guy. it is out of control, and yet, david axelrod is going after mitt romney. what's that about? >> they think he's going to be the one. >> why? >> did you see rick perry's wife talking about herman cain? >> no. >> she said that 9-9-9 plan makes me want to call 911. she's pretty good.

>> she's pretty good. >> they're going after mitt romney because they think he's going to be the one. >> going after him pretty tough, aren't they? >> i think everyone you talk to in washington who has been involved at a national level. everybody believes mitt romney is going to be the republican nominee for president because of the collapse of rick perry, and they think that the herman cain phenomenon is exactly that, a phenomenon that's very temporary. >> what do you think, though, steve schmidt? >> i think people are very angry out there. you can see it in the occupy wall street protests, see it in the fact that we're coming up on the 100th month where americans believe that the country is on the wrong track. >> what do you think of this guy? >> i think -- >> we can speak in generalities. look at this guy. is this guy going to be the republican nominee? i think. >> he has his work cut out for him. and he's going to have a major impact on the race. >> i've had a couple of conversations with people who i would just assume would be going

for mitt romney -- >> a lot of people like him. >> extremely well-educated, powerful people, who love herman cain. they want to vote for herman cain. >> let's go through the news this weekend. >> former godfather's pizza ceo -- >> why is it confounding? do you only support white republicans? why do you hate when loving would be so much easier? >> that's the most ridiculous question -- >> no, it's not. >> i've been reading up a lot about him and i still feel he's making it up as he goes along. >> he is, which makes this fun. >> he spent the weekend campaigning in tennessee before stopping in washington for his first appearance on "meet the press." cain used the opportunity to defend 9-9-9, admitting for the first time that it could lead to a tax hike for some americans. >> some people will pay more, but most people will pay less is my argument. >> who will pay more? >> who will pay more? the people who spend more money on new goods.

the sales tax only applies to people who buy new goods. not used goods. that's a big difference that doesn't come out. >> you think those people are going to rally around tax reform where the wealthy pay less and middle class and lower income folks pay more? >> yes. >> you think that'll create a grass roots support? >> if you do the math on your individual situation, people are going to benefit several other ways other than whether they pay more in taxes. the fact that they're not going to have the cost of filing and compliance. that's a $430 billion for all of us every year. >> yeah, so. there will be some people who pay more. but it's only for new items. new items like groceries -- >> shoes. >> for your kids. >> you buy used hamburger, though. >> you can buy used hamburger. also pharmaceutical drugs. if you can root through a garbage can -- >> it's a savings. >> this creates a new kind of industry.

other people can root through garbage cans, look for old pharmaceuticals, sell it on a black market, it's a cottage industry right there. the poor are going to pay disproportionately under this plan. and this is a train wreck. but -- it could elevate this guy to the white house. what did newt say about this? >> newt gingrich says that 9-9-9 gives him a chance. >> huh? >> herman cain is a terrific person. he is a great, wonderful human story. if he figures out how to do it all right and explain a 9% sales tax so people decide they want it, he has a good chance to be the nominee. >> all right. how is it working for him? >> i'm sorry, why does newt -- why would newt know that? >> well, newt's moving up in the polls. come on, look at this republican, steve schmidt. did somebody inject steve with

truth serum? because i'm going to ask him a question. what is it about my republican party that put sarah palin out front when she's obviously ill-equipped to be president of the united states at this point in her career? and then the republican party, my republican party rushes to donald trump, and then rushes to michele bauchmann, rushes to rick perry, rushes these people that can't even run their own vocabulary let alone the united states of america. now herman cain. he is -- he is on the face of t it, again, a great guy, a great ceo, but obviously ill equipped to run the united states of america. why does the republican party -- there have to be angry people who are competent in the ways of washington out there that they can rally around. >> ill equipped in a time of great crisis for the country. it's been the strangest year. it's been a reality show from day one. >> it has been a reality show. >> with the trump phenomenon all the way through to michele

bauchmann and now on -- >> and by the way, by the way, 50% of the people i named actually had their own reality shows over the past year. so when you say reality show, this is not sort of a figurative thing. it is literal. the republican race for president this year has been a reality show. why? >> well, at the end of the day, i still believe in the process. and i believe the process will not nominate somebody who is not prepared to be president of the united states. and what we'll look for in the months ahead here is whether slow and steady wins the race. mitt romney's been very stable all the way through. it seems that every candidate has been on top for at least a week on this race. it's herman cain's turn now and we'll see how he holds up in the debates and weeks ahead. >> you know, mika, again, my brother's going to e-mail me and my family is. why are you so mean to sarah palin? i wasn't mean to sarah palin or michele bauchmann, i might vote

for them for congressman, but they're not ready to be president of the united states any more than barack obama was ready to be president of the united states. i just wonder why the political system seems to be wired to nominate and elect people who are not prepared to run the biggest country on the planet, the most important country on the planet, at one of the most critical times this country has faced since 1941. >> i think some would argue they did that ten years ago, and now they're trying -- >> they did what? >> well, look, sam stein -- >> no, i've got to stop you here. they did what two years ago? >> they elected some that wasn't prepared. some would say that. >> some would say that? even president obama's supporters are saying -- he was not ready to be president. admit it, it will set you free. >> simmer down. >> this is the first of 12 steps on the road to recovery to admit that like jimmy carter, barack

obama made people feel good. >> now stop. all right. >> what happened? >> here's my point, though. >> didn't end well. >> i wonder if, sam stein, the situation we're in with these characters, okay. can i say he's a character he's making it up as he goes along? is he making it up as he goes along? >> of course he's making it up. he's letting it roll out week by week. >> it's like improv. are we here because people are frustrated with the current leadership and they want something but. >> yes, a lot of frustration among tea party republicans over the state of the republican party. and with herman cain, it's almost like a cliche movie script. the guy who said, oh, i have a book coming out and i want to promote it, let's do a white house run and he ends up in the lead. and it's kind of scary.

we spent a lot of time on it. obviously we're in agreement that mitt romney will end up in a good spot. my question, if i could ask a question to steve. because steve was there in 2008. and everyone knows the mccain campaign and the romney campaign did not get along. they were quite bitter towards each other. why haven't mitt romney's competitors attacked him the way you guys did in 2008? and what kind of attacks work against mitt romney? >> i think if you watch the debates, he's just a much better candidate. people have made a run at him in these debates and he's swatted it down like child's play. and i know sometimes that's not in the script about how everyone covers this because mitt romney's supposed to be an average performer. he's become quite a good candidate. >> looking at him, you're glad your mccain team didn't have to face this mitt romney four years ago. >> we had our hands full with him four years ago and he's a lot better today. >> a lot better. >> a lot better. and you've seen rick perry take

a number of runs at him in these debat debates. >> what's the most likely sna scenario where romney has a problem. >> when we get into a protracted republican primary season. because we're no longer in a winner take all situation. if this becomes a highly ideological race, a binary choice between candidate a, candidate b, and candidate a is the conservative candidate to mitt romney's more establishment candidate. it could be that mitt romney's fundamental problem in this race is that everybody who works in the political elite and the media elite think he's going to be the republican nominee. and the actual republican voters may say no way. we're sick and tired of it. >> the real threat is, i agree with steve. a competent conservative running against mitt romney one-on-one beats mitt romney. i've got to believe that if mike huckabee were out there right now and had raised some money, mike huckabee would be way

ahead. >> mike pence. >> mike pence would be in great shape. >> mitch daniels. >> great shape. paul ryan would be in great shape. jeb bush would be in great shape. i think chris christie would be in good shape. but it's always mitt romney against donald trump, mitt romney against sarah palin, against herman cain. >> what are you going to do? >> that always makes mitt romney look like the seasoned political pro. i actually think under that scenario probably rick perry surviving the early onslaught and coming back from war and being stronger going into say december is probably his biggest threat. where the guy can say i governed a huge state for a decade. we brought more jobs to texas than anywhere. if this guy had not stumbled out of the gate so much, i think he would be giving mitt romney a big, big challenge. >> and this immigration thing has killed his plan. it allows romny to attack him

from the right. >> sam stein also, i think, i talk about the current leadership in washington overall. democrats and republicans and what's going on in washington and what is not happening that is leading for people to sort of grasp to something outside the realm of normality. >> by the way -- >> can we iso sam stein in washington. we have a horrible shot. can we freeze that and take a picture? we're going to use this one instead of this one that makes him look like he's out of "psycho 3." >> part of the problem -- i'm laughing a little bit. part of the problem with obama, his campaign was premised on changing the way the politics work. that inspired a lot of people. and they didn't calculate for the fact that he would face such an entrenched republican opposition or stumble in the ways he has. and that's why there's

frustration with his leadership. the promises were so vast and so unachievable in many respects that when it came time to not achieve them, it let a lot of people down. >> it also didn't help him that he didn't know how to run washington when he had 60 democratic senators and a 79-vote margin in the house for the first two years. >> we can't criticize him for bringing in all of these old clinton vets and saying, well, he didn't know how to run washington. those two are contradictory. i think what happened is he stayed on a little too long to this notion of post partisanship when all of the evidence around him suggested -- >> i don't want to pick a fight with 90 seconds left in the second, but there was nothing post partisan when he basically told the democrats you're going to run the stimulus package and republicans get the hell out of the way. even the "a.p." had a headline, obama shows the still fist inside the velvet glove. >> the stimulus included $300 billion in taxes to the low --

>> he was propartisan -- the president didn't change the way washington worked. republicans certainly haven't changed the way washington works, jeffrey sachs. it's still the same old town it's been. >> we continue, and i think the cain phenomenon is part of a larger narrative, which is still this will despite everything to cut taxes on the rich. this is incredibly regressive. this 9-9-9. the numbers don't add up. it's being destroyed by all analysis. it's not going to stand and romney is going to benefit from this in the end. this has no legs. >> no legs. so steve schmidt, let me ask you before we go to break -- >> yeah. >> woody harrelson, he's playing in the game change movie. >> he is. >> what do you think of that? you guys hang out -- >> he's a nice guy. >> is he asking -- he's a nice

guy. >> steve schmidt, thank you so much. >> i feel bad for him. >> you say that nervously. >> he's a nice guy. he's a nice guy. >> it's great to see you. come back. coming up, white house senior adviser to president david axelrod will join us. he's here! how wonderful. up next, could the occupy wall street protests be a major factor in the next election? dr. brzezinski will be here to discuss it with us. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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look. we're going to have millions and millions of unemployed. people really facing dire straits. and we're going to be having that for some period of time before things hopefully improve. and at the same time, there is this public awareness of this extraordinary wealth that was

transferred to a few individuals. what's going to happen to society when these people are without jobs, when their families hurt, when they lose their homes and so forth? at some point there'll be such political pressure that congress will start getting in the act. there's going to be growing conflict between the classes. and if people are unemployed and really hurting, there could be even riots. >> well, that was in 2009, and joining us now from washington -- >> you saw what happened over the weekend in rome. you see what's happening across the country, that was two years ago. and once again, what your father predicted has come to fruition. >> former national security adviser for president carter, dr. brzezinski. >> and let me just say, brzezinski, that pains me greatly to say that. i'm joking. you're always right. >> my dad received the prize in normandy over the weekend. >> bravo, wow. fantastic. >> part of the speech -- >> thank you. the reason i bring it up -- i'm sorry, the reason i bring it up,

i want to read a part of your speech which you said this to your audience in normandy a about america. though a democracy, it's becoming a country of socially ominous extremes between the few super rich and the increasingly many who are deprived. in america today, the top 1% of the richest families own around 35% of the entire nation's wealth while the bottom 90% own around 25%. it should be a source of perhaps even greater concern, the maj majority of all congressmen and senators fall in the category of the very rich. the so-called top 1%. so you look at this problem and you have some prescriptions for the future, but they are how we handle the rest of the world. what we can sort of do to shore this up. dr. sachs, i'll let you take the first question. >> first, beautifully put, and congratulations on that wonderful, richly deserved

award. how do we turn the politics in this country which is so much infused with big money around? because it seems money drives politics and it's not surprising that the rich come out on top. i wonder what your thoughts are about how we can change direction. >> well, first of all, i'm intimidated by your presence because you know much more about this than i do. but let me make a couple of points. first, i think we have to have a greater balance between what i call the financial economic universe and the political universe. we live in a time in which the financial economic universe is instantly global. very effective in passing enormous amounts of money all over the world rapidly. doing it in a manner which is absolutely mysterious to most citizens. and in a manner in which it benefits enormously and very often because purely of speculation and without any social benefit just a few.

we have this financial economic universe which is the result of deregulation, globalization, and the instant flow of money operating mysteriously. and you have a political universe which seemingly is global, but is is increasingly fragmented. there's no center of political direction of political consensus even. the united states, which has been playing the preeminent global role is powerless. and it certainly is no longer dominant on the global economic scene. so you have this junction. and this junction at the same time takes place at a time when the public is increasingly aware of the fact that some people are getting incredibly rich largely on the basis of speculation that is so mysterious that even relatively uneducated people can understand it. that is the source of this great

frustration and the beginnings of a global reaction against it. i think we're moving into a phase of serious social/political unrest world wo wide. >> you put it so rightly and so well. a chairman of a board of one of the world's biggest company said to me recently that we're just bigger than any country. we actually don't care about local conditions. we don't care about local norms anymore. we can pay ourselves anything because if people object, we don't really have a home base. it was kind of a stunning, stunningly clear way to put things. this is a company that works in more than 150 countries around the world, and he was explaining that they've basically become detached from their national home base. and i think this really is something that every country around the world feels. >> and the public feels about it

deeply, they feel vulnerable, they feel adversely affected by it. i've been looking at this worldwide riots that are developing. they're all a reflection of deep passion, deep resentment, and fear. the question is, where will this go? how can this be concretizeconcr? and one thought that has occurred to me and let me mention it casually without having thought it through systemically. i think it will be increasingly helpful if there was a movement to publish worldwide lists of people who make largely through speculation enormous amounts of money almost instantly and basically hide the fact from their social contexts, how many americans are really fully aware of how many other people who really donate a lot of their earnings to charities to fi

philanthropy, but how many others are in the hedge funds and banks who on the basis of speculation literally make millions of dollars that it would take a century or two for the average person ever to make. i would like to see those lists. and they shouldn't be that difficult to produce. and i think public pressure might have also some effect. not only in terms of moving towards more systematic international coordination and regulation, but also to pressure some of those people to give some of it back, back to society. >> i think it's a great idea. i wanted to ask you a question where you're the world's shrewdest observer of this. i was in about 20 countries over the summer, many international meetings, the summit meetings, i didn't see any sign at all of u.s. leadership wherever i was. whether it was in crises of a africa, asian business meetings, whether it was in europe over european challenges.

the u.s. seemed to be the incredibly disappearing power. almost a collapse of presence even, not just of influence, but even of presence. and i wonder whether you feel the same way. what you would make of that. >> well, i feel the same way. and i would extend that from the sort of financial economic dimension also to geopolitics. look at the last session of the u.n. the united states in effect announced its abdication from leadership in the effort to produce some sort of middle eastern stability. we just give up. we just give up. and i don't think in many parts of the world there is much confidence left in american leadership. and this is seriously dangerous. this is tragic. because it's avoidable. we're still the most powerful country in the world. but we're not pointed in any clear direction, either geopolitically or economically. >> you said this in normandy over the weekend.

i'm going to read again from your speech. the despotism of ignorance has the effect of diminishing political leadership in america. again he wrote, some vexing effects are evident in the american national character. today such despotism is manifested in the public's ignorance of the world around it. and in that public's reluctance to demand and accept short-term and fairly distributed social sacrifice in exchange for long-term renewal. that same ignorance or more accurately indifference handicaps america's capacity to deal with the external world. how do we fix that? and is it leadership? >> that's absolutely -- i say correct because i believe it and i said it. i think the only way we can fix it is by having a sense of direction historically. both in the financial/economic

dimension. recognize the fact that the system is out of control. the financial system is completely out of control and heavily dominated by speculation. and by a realization that there are geopolitical problems that we have to deal in common, but which america has to take the leadership even if it is domestically not entirely popular. but that, unfortunately, in our society really is dependent on public understanding of these issues. and there's very little public discussion of these issues. you know, the kind of debates we are having now in the presidential era involve slogans. simplistic assertions. in many escapist views. it's pitiful to be listening to the candidates for president discuss foreign affairs. they operate in slogans. simplistic slogans. and since we're a democracy, a lot of that reflects basic public position.

and the correction to this would be long and difficult, but nonetheless, i think we as a country have enough talent in it, have enough resources that hopefully over the next months and years will remobilize ourselves and assert the leadership of the kind we did in the past decades. >> willie? >> dr. brzezinski, it's willie. good to see you this morning. the approach from the white house and other politicians to deal with that problem seems to be merely to demonize wall street. i think it's important to point out your proposal for the lists. there are lots of people doing good things with their money. what can washington do that actually tackles the problem besides creating a boogieman and letting us all know they're terrible people that don't give their money back. what can we do? we have this crisis in 2008 that shook the country and we didn't get sweeping change out of that. if that didn't move us to change the system or put rules in place, to put some guardrails around wall street, what will? >> i certainly don't wish to

demonize wall street. and we should as i said earlier, divide, let the public understand there's a difference between those who have a responsibility and assume their measure of responsibility with society voluntarily. and there is a movement among the very rich people to increase their donations and so forth. but unfortunately, there's an even larger number of people who massively enrich themselves over the last decade. to the degree that we have this highly disproportionate social divisions between the rich and the poor. and i think they should be made known publicly, public pressure, public condemnation, public shame can be very effective. but when it comes to the government, when it comes to congress, i think congress has to realize the fact that the financial economic system cannot operate autonomously. and in secrecy in many cases that we have to have disclosure. we have to have transparency, and we have to have control. so more control over the banks. more control over the hedge funds particularly.

more control over earnings. more fair distribution of social responsibility through taxation and the elimination of loopholes. and pressure even on the rich to avoid flaunting their wealth the way some of them do. i see often people who have huge new yachts because that's become a symbol of wealth. and struck how often these people who made all this money in america have on the back of the boat their registration, cayman islands, british west indyes, sop obscure island in the pacific. doesn't that tell you something about their taxes and financial arrangements? i think public disclosure by the mass media could go a long way toward a social awakening that's responsible and constructive in its effects and doesn't produce stupid counterproductive witch hunt. >> all right. dr. brzezinski, thank you so much for being with us. congratulations again on your award this weekend. and i just want to say -- it's

the first time you've been on this show that i have seen you use an old southern lawyer device -- >> what? >> the false modesty. saying he was intimidated by dr. sachs' presence. >> he's a good economist. >> dr. brzezinski's intimidated by nobody's presence. but i like seeing you try that on for size. >> i'll do that to you next time, joe. >> and then nobody will believe it. at least it's somewhat believable with dr. sachs. >> i can't wait till his book comes out. i can't wait for your book comes out, dad. >> i'm not sure it's going to answer all of these questions. >> it'll do just fine. coming up, we have susan and david axelrod with us. looking forward to that. very much a big event tonight. >> oh, yeah, we're going. we're going. >> for a very important cause. "morning joe" will be right back. [ female announcer ] from the moment we arrive...

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coming up next on "morning joe," he called herman cain a bad apple and said president obama has "failed his mission." the outspoken singer and actor harry belafonte will join us.

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protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. welcome back to "morning joe." it's 42 past the hour. a live look at the white house. joining us now here in new york, the senior political strategist for president obama's reelection campaign, david action l rxelro with susan axelrod. thank you both for being with us today. >> great to be here. >> we look forward to your event tonight. big event tonight. >> really excited a about it. really excited. you are honorees. >> we're going. >> you better be there. >> so, david, let's start quickly. herman cain, you missed the memo, 9-9-9, it's sweeping the nation. all the kids --

>> it's a slogan. >> it's a huge slogan. and yet you're ignoring herman cain and going straight to mitt romney. >> have you seen the cover of "newsweek." >> what does this guy have to do to get your respect? >> yes, we cain. >> yes, he's an intriguing personality. and, look, i think his plan deserves scrutiny as was discussed in some of your earlier segments, i don't think it's a good plan for most americans. >> you say that. it's not good for the poor. >> i don't think it's great for the middle class either. >> unless they buy their groceries and pharmaceuticals used. >> and then they'll get higher taxes. >> i think you've got to add the 9-9-9 up, get to 27%, and that's what poor and middle class people will end up paying, you know, once the thing is implemented. >> you're also right about the middle class too. >> but you know, your point earlier was the right one. i mean, i do think that at the end of the day, you know, and i

don't pretend -- mark's an expert on republican politics, i'm not an expert on republican politics, but i think when you look at the resources and the standing that perry and romney are likely to be duking it out at some point here. but the reason i raised some of these issues about governor romney is because other people weren't raising them, and it's important to focus on those things. he has a history going back 20 years when he was, you know, a moderate to liberal republican in massachusetts, pro choice, pro gay rights, pro environmental protection, obviously pro health reform. >> right. >> anti-ronald reagan, said he was an independent during the reagan years and now he's done a 180 on all those things. now he's a trade warrior. a year ago -- >> you're going to have to stop. we've got to get to susan here. bring it in for a landing, hubby. >> i thought that was pretty good. >> let's talk about the event

tonight. obviously it's something that hits near and dear to your heart. >> david and i have a daughter, who when she was 7 months old started having seizures that were uncontrollable. 13 years ago founded this organization to raise money for research because we soon found out that we were not alone in this. that many, many people are struggling as was she and our entire family. and so this is a cause that's really personal for us but is going to help so many people. >> and it's a disease still shrouded in mystery. >> totally. >> there's such a long way to go. >> there is. there is. >> why is that? why is it so hard to crack the code? >> i think for reasons that i'm not quite certain of, there was a void in the epilepsy research in this movement for research in this area. i think people have been afraid to talk about it. and those who are really severely impacted, like our daughter is, didn't have a voice really in this. and the third --

>> a lot of people just move them off to homes and just sort of pretend they weren't there -- >> those are the people you don't really see. increasingly now we do. they're integrated into schools and so on. and i think, you know, what you've done to help us -- to give us a platform for talking about this publicly -- i mean, every time we go anywhere and talk about epilepsy, people start coming out of the woodwork and say, yes, i have a child too or i lost a child or whatever. >> that's an important point. 50,000 people a year die of epilepsy. and that's a little known fact. >> what hope can be provided for a parent -- like, for instance, somebody in one of my child's classes found out this spring that her daughter had epilepsy. what hope is there? >> you know, for us the hope is in the research. and i think there are some really exciting things going on right now. and what we do at c.u.r.e. is raise money and give out seed grants for people to start exploring new areas because

traditionally things have been studied in the old-fashioned conventional safe way. so i think there's a lot of hope out there because there are new approaches to looking at it. and that's, you know, coming together again. we feel so much comfort in just knowing that we're working on something that's going to make a difference. >> can i brag for a second? >> please do. i was about to. >> this organization started with susan and two other moms who were grief-stricken and angry about what had happened to our kids. at our kitchen table, we just were in rome in a august. 4,000 scientists, the room in tears as she shared stories of some of the folks we've met along the way. and so not only has this organization raised nearly $20 million, but has raised awareness. and so now the research community is focused on a cure, not just the symptoms, but a cure for this. and i'm bragging, i'm proud. >> i think i was just watching,

susan, we've been watching her over the years as we've gotten to know both of you and talking about that transition to washington and how hard it is and the spouses. and you found your identity. it drives you through this. and at first you were uncomfortable selling, if i may use the word, but you have found your voice in it. and that is an amazing story about it. >> what's incredible, you've taken something personal and made you angry and channeled it into something that's good for your family, but good for a wider community and has economy of scale that can actually make a difference. >> so talking about scale. what can people do? what can people do to get involved across this country? >> well, we want a cure. >> yeah. they can call us. they can go to our website, which is www.cureepilepsy.org. and join us. we have for families, we have activities and events really going on around the country. and there are ways in different areas to get involved.

people can write letters to their members of congress and tell them how important this area of research is. >> a lot of people that watch our show actually listen to our show, keep that up, by the way, on the screen. listen to our show in the morning while they're getting their kids ready. if you are listening right now, or driving in and listening on xm sirius, if you need more information on this, go to www.cureepilepsy.org. www.cureepilepsy.org. and there people will find out -- >> yes. >> how to become empowered -- >> and if you just want to learn about it, we've got personal stories on our website. >> and that money we raise on that website has funded -- how many grants all over the world? >> yeah, we funded 116 grants now, internationally, nine different countries. we've raised $18 million in total. >> you know what? also google their "parade" magazine cover story you did a couple of years ago. it is your story about your

daughter and how you all managed and coped. it is so galvanizing. it's worth reading. really amazing. >> susan and david axelrod, thank you. go bears. >> i never understand what he says, but roger bennett is next. [ man ] i got this citi thank you card and started earning loads of points. you got a weather balloon with points? yes, i did. [ man ] points i could use for just about anything. ♪ keep on going in this direction. take this bridge over here. there it is. [ man ] so i used mine to get a whole new perspective. ♪ [ male announcer ] write your story with the citi thankyou premier card, with no point caps, and points that don't expire. get started at thankyoucard.citi.com.

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hey, welcome back. kids, it is time to bring on the espn soccer analyst on 9:00 a.m. on sirius radio. >> the soccer is the sport of the future since 1972 and this was their weekend when it really hit home. lebron, king james traveled to liverpool to watch the games and now a part owner with the red sox john henry and took in the game and tweeted throughout and said i've seen rodney dangerfield's "ladybugs" but nothing compared me for this. it came to life at the end and

jarrod manchester united king jewels and having martin mark him is like asking homer simpson, and manchester united do what they do. a mediocre performance and now they dropped a point. >> i've got to say, it's amazing, though, the missed opportunities that liverpool had at the last couple of minutes. >> they had an opportunity to make a statement and they failed. king james did make a statement. one of the best experiences of my life. the excitement these fans is like no other. only weeks before we take you, what did you think? >> i'm ready. >> we have to bring her over there. let's talk about manchester. >> you don't want me to go. >> i think you'll appreciate it. top of the table. >> these two teams and the only

owned by cleveland browns learner and this man's hair cut is an etch-a-sketch. final score, $1.2 billion for 73 cents. just one goal. next week they play united. >> that's going to be class for the ages. let's now talk about new castle. one of the real surprises thus far this year. >> this city is nuts. it's in the north of england, fanatical fan base and their team is normally terrible and they're unfancy but undefeated. came up from the south to try to end that run, they went ahead twice but new castle and spectacular whipped in. team spirit still means something in this day in age. new castle remains forth. somehow when they find brazil games they find a beautiful woman in the crowd and new

castle they find these obese curly haired guys. >> after they lost andy carroll, who has been the absolute complete bust at liverpool for $50 million. >> new castle are the darlings of the season. >> no doubt about it. roger bennett, thank you for being with us. as you look at the tables. manchester up top -- >> top of the table clash next week. >> going to be a great one. we have much more when "morning joe" returns.

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>> we're kinding of having an andy war hole primary and it's cain's turn today. but he's not running for president, he's sort of strolling for president without an infrastructure. it's pretty and cute and nice, but whether or not it works, we can be doubtful. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. happy monday, everyone. >> happy monday, everyone. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> beautiful out there. >> we have mark halprin and dr. jeffrey saks. >> what do you think about the ten minutes of fame for herman cain? >> i had an over the top mocking tone about herman cain on friday. >> are you just saying that because people were really rude

to you on saturday night when you went out to dinner with them? was i not supposed to say that? they said she was really liberal. you were too mocking on friday. i think i was the one that was mocking. let me just say, i want to say to everybody who thought i was too mocking about herman cain. i'm sorry, you don't understand politics. i've done it again. he's strolling like george will said, he's strolling for president. >> i had dinner with really smart people, like the people -- >> really? unlike the people willie and i go to dinner with. >> it was a step up from the morning. people who run the world. they love herman cain. >> they do not. >> i spent the whole weekend reading about him trying to figure him out and i watched "meet the press" and i'm still

trying to figure him out. >> gary daniels our good friend over at cbs, e-mailing him during the game and told him he was doing a good job. him and all of his ideas don't line-up, but i like that guy. a lot of people are saying they like that guy, i like santa claus. herman cain and this 999 thing is just an absolute joke. i said that about michele bachmann and people got upset. he is strolling for president. you look at the amount of time logged, the hours alogged in the early primary states. mark halprin, he's just not there. he was in tennessee the other night. he was on a book tour. wally is on a book tour and saying he is going to put up electric fences that kill illegal immigrants and when he gets called on, he says, oh, that's a joke. some kind of joke. >> running in an unconventional way. the way to look at herman cain now is less a nominee and more the way to look at occupy wall

street which is, something's happening in this country right now and people are reacting to it. >> i want to get to that. >> cross the political spectrum in ways that are elevating herman cain and these protesters. he's tapping into people's desire to have somebody outside washington at the center of the republican party. >> doesn't matter if they know how washington runs or not. you would think the republicans that have been saying for years that barack obama was ill equipped to be brez president o united states, which he was, would not then run to sarah palin and michele bachmann and herman cain and a group of candidates who are ill equipped to run this country. willie geist was at "occupy wall street" on saturday night. >> teetering on the edge -- >> that was good. good game and close. >> herman cain was in the state of tennessee. you're reading the papers in tennessee, they like him a lot.

>> they love him. >> he had an event in jackson, tennessee, over the weekend. in african-american man, full of white people. one after another you read the quotes in the paper, we love this guy. we relate to this guy. people obama supporters saying i like the cut of this guy. >> no, i'm telling you. >> he may not win, but he has people who like him. >> his defensive 999 on "meet the press" is another matter where he says the 9% sales tax only applies to new goods, not used goods which includes groceries and those new goods. >> there are used groceries out there. >> there are, like day-old, i guess. >> last night really quickly the st. louis cardinals continue their unlikely run. they were like ten out in august. >> 10 1/2. >> they came back and now going to the world series. that's exciting. >> we'll get to sports in sports. we have too much to talk about. i want to ask sam stein

about the "occupy" protests. they took a global turn over the weekend. scheduled to take part in demonstrations after online organizers called for a worldwide rally. the mayor of rome said $1.4 million in damage was caused after rioters broke away from a peaceful protest and torched vehicles around the city. >> that will help with the construction industry now. >> oh, lord. now, stop it. >> if you have to rebuild rome because people burned it down, that's actually a plus up. this occupy wall street group, look at that, they are creating new jobs. they're getting -- >> that's rome. back here in new york following a massive times square demonstration in times square, that netted 70 arrests, "occupy wall street" organizers announced the group has received $3,000 in donations, plus, storage space loaded with donated supplies. the donated goods are being

stored "for a long-term occupati occupation." at the dedication for the martin luther king memorial yesterday president obama suggested he would support the activists. >> peace without justice was no peace at all. that lining our reality with our ideals often requires the speaking of uncomfortable truths and the creative tension of nonviolent protests. if he were alive today, i believe he would remind us that the unemployed worker can rightly challenge the excesses of wall street without demonizing all who work there. >> sam stein, saturday night with my friends, a heated debate about "occupy wall street." the ultimate question was whether or not you agree with them and whether or not they have a message. who is it going to hurt? obama or the republican candidate? >> it's been telling to watch. i was in new hampshire on monday and tuesday and i was following around mitt romney and in the

first stop he was asked about this and he suggested he was uncomfortable with it and it was unproductable and didn't get what they were about and in 24 hours he said he sympathized with it. my guess is that people look at this and say, wow, it's a popular movement and a populous movement and it gets at a lot of voters ankest and i want to be a part of it or at least have myself associated with it. almost like a race to join it, but with your hand held out ever so slightly because you don't want to be part of that. but, you know, it's fascinating to watch and herman cain bringing it back there, he was one of them, as well. he said, well, they only have them s haveselves to blame for their joblessness. so, republicans trying to get this together. >> also, you have to put a caveat there. you should march at the white house and he also talked about how the white house should have an electroified fence that would kill anybody that got so close.

>> that is such a silly idea, but a great boon to the rubber ladder industry. >> rubber ladder industry. >> it's like a stimulus. >> turning it into lemonade this morning. you can riot in rome and we'll still find an upside for it. what do you think of the protests where they've gone over the past week and the global impact? >> i think they're real and i think they're tapping into something very significant and it's more than inequality, they're talking about illegality on wall street. we have to remember how many crimes the major banks have committed. how many fines they have been paying. jpmorg jpmorgan, morgi think a lot of e who are criticizing don't really understand this. i was down there myself this weekend and it's not about envy, it's about disgust at how wall

street misbehaves. >> who was down there? describe the people that are down there. >> it's a mix of people, but a lot of young people, a lot of students and a lot of people very, very unhappy on how wall street broke the economy, how they cheated and how they made these toxic assets, which led to massive bankruptcies. how they created this financial bubble. and "wall street journal" which unbelievable who doesn't get it says i don't understand why they were protesting jpmorgan. jpmorgan paid $150 in fines for packaging this toxic junk, which it knowingly sold to its clients so that a hedge fund could bet against it. goldman sachs did the same thing. why should people be protesting john paulson who made millions of dollars individually by packaging junk. i think this is the point that people don't really want to see. this isn't about envy, this is about the criminality of the

financial sector. it got out of control. completely deregulated. this is serious stuff. and i think when you come to, by the way, to herman cain, i think, frankly, we're -- >> i like the way you said that, the herman cain. >> when you come to the herman cain phenomenon, this is the normal way of politics. he's being backed by david coke, this is what is revealed as the most herman cain story -- >> he has previous ties. >> no. for five years coch has been backing this guy. he's been on the payroll and close to david coch. that's the real story of american politics this year. is that the coch brothers are behind almost everything. it is their money fueling all this extreme right position. that's the real story in politics. >> you were also down at "occupy wall street." you were down at wall street, as well, "occupy wall street" and you went in to get heilman w

who -- what did you see down there? >> the demonization of the group, just to try to demonize what herman cain stands for by talking about his past associations. >> that's who he is. >> that's not what fueled his presidential gain. >> that's what's fueling this exactly -- >> you can't say that's who he is. people who are filling up barnes in tennessee, they don't even know who they are. >> the guy behind him that is financialing all of this. >> he hasn't raised any money. >> gets to whip up all of the coch network. >> i'm saying that is not what is fueling anybody -- >> if you want to say he's head of association with the coch brothers, that's one thing. if you want to say who he is, that's not fair. that's no fair than picking

barack obama and finding a connection with george sorros and you were trying to turn this situation into something that glenn beck tried to turn -- >> no, no, no, no. >> hold on. glenn beck would take an association with george sorros and attach george sorros to a candidate and into a boogie man and then attack. i say that respectfully. >> let me explain. this 999 is part of the whole idea that coch has been pushing for years, just cut taxes. cut taxes. this is a campaign that is going on. go after the idea. go after the idea. you don't have to associate it with the boogie man. >> who created it and pushed it and financied it?

>> in '97 i was saying let's abolish and this idea has been around for a very long time. >> and being heavily financed right now. >> i wish i would have known them back then. i am saying, though, i understand i'm all for drawing line and figuring out whom's financing whom. i think it's unfair to say this is who herman cain is. i have been very harsh on herman cain, obviously. i don't think you can say because there is that connection. there is that connection and people need to notice that. >> in terms of "occupy wall street" i found it totally inspirational. it's a little smelly and disorganized and ill serving themselves by saying we have no leaders. i understand that impulse for them. they could be a bigger force if they were organized. the idealism and the focus, not on envy and not on anger, but on wanting america to be better, extraordinarily inspirational. >> david axelrod announced

yesterday while he is out this week pushing to get some form of his job's bill through. do you think that is what he'll do? is that the smart thing to do? >> smart if done the right way. capture the idealism and a reform. there are people who are considered on the right who would agree with a lot of the agenda. the people who found downtown. they think t.a.r.p. was a bad idea and the banks have too much money. that's not a narrow left-wing agenda. if it's enunciated correctly and avoid being tainted with some things about the movement that are less main stream. >> did you hear, first of all, we invaded another country. we went to africa. i don't know if you heard that. >> mini invasion. >> mini invasion of africa. >> just like controversy. >> isn't that cool? we innovated another country on another continent and dropping drones on 28 countries that we not even declared war with.

>> nothing to see here. >> by the way, also, also, i find sam stein absolutely stunning. we are killing americans. terrorists, suspected terrorists, but we're killing americans with drones. we killed two americans with drones. i bring this up to say that only 85% of americans are probably glad we killed those two americans, but no due process. no declared war and here's the kicker, no rationalization from the white house. they won't even come out and describe the legalities of that. i will just say a few words and then do a dot, dot, dot. >> i don't know what they're going to be. >> had george bush done this, dot, dot, dot. can you imagine the "new york times" editorials? can you imagine the sunday spreads? we killed two americans, we're invading countries. this has run amuck and, you know what code pink is doing right now?

they're in ft. lauderdale. where is the anti-left movement? now they're playing shuffle board. >> seriously, sam stein the hypocrisy is stunning. >> let him talk. i want to hear sam defend it. defend it. >> go ahead, sam. >> i'm not going to defend it. i think joe's absolutely right. i will say there are glen greenwald, for example, we did a big piece on the drone killings and the illegality of it and the questionable illegality, if this were the bush administration not coming out with a justification for what they're doing they would be absolutely skewered. this is one of the underwritten stories that the obama foreign policy for all the continuation of bush and some very key aspects. >> i think, actually, an acceleration of bush and cheney.

when you look at the drone attacks into more countries where we haven't declared war. jeffrey sachs, seriously, i want us to think about the legality. first of all, just dropping drones into whatever country you want to drop them into and vaporizing two americans sitting in a car with a drone, again, two very bad americans, mind you, but you cant have it both ways. you can't run as a cruseder against bush/cheney's war on terror and then amp it up the way they have. >> this is foreign policy by the pentagon and it is a continuation of the bush administration. and it is an expansion and it's not leading to any results. that's the real point. we just -- >> we keep getting deeper and deeper into a mess and we're wasting a phenomenal amount of money. the wildfire is spreading because it's not only afghanistan and not only

pakistan it's yemen -- >> do not forgettiaiogonda. coming up next, a new documentary in his own words. actor and singer henry belifonte will be here. > the lions lose their first game of the season. chest bumping and screaming at his rival after the game. we'll talk about that and the rest of the nfl. but, first, bill karins. >> we all can't be the best, can we? we're dealing with pretty nice weather conditions out there. right now watching an area of disturbed area. all the green and white around florida and cuba and yucatan, that's a developing tropical disturbance and, unfortunately, it looks like that will head up the east coast. not a hurricane or anything like

that, but a big rainmaker. today it's down in florida. by tuesday up there heading into georgia and the carolinas and wednesday moves up the mid-atlantic into new england. that is the big story of the week. also very warm in the west. near 100 today, once again, today in phoenix. here's your forecast. big cities of i-95, no problems, just a nice fall day for you. rainy weather down in florida. middle of the country, not a lot of issues, rain around oklahoma and all through the west, enjoy a very nice start to your fall week. can you believe it? the ice is down. temperatures, not so much. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ wind howling ] [ technician ] are you busy? management just sent over these new technical manuals. they need you to translate them into portuguese.

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>> whether it's in civil rights, minimal wages, better housing, better working conditions, jobs. i stand for these things. >> i thought kennedy should be taking a look at the movement, which he did not know too much about, much to my surprise. i suggested to the young senator that he best pay attention because dr. martin luther king was where the democratic party should be focusing. >> welcome back to "morning joe." 24 past the hour. that was a scene from the new hbo documentary about acclaimed singer/song writer harry belafonte now also out with his memoir "my song." harry belafonte and also wes

moore joins the table, as well. >> you guys are all neighbors, aren't you? >> we're extreme neighbors. >> you're extreme neighbors. >> couple floors apart. >> but harry belafonte not an outspoken guy have been complaining how you have ruined the real estate value for the neighborhood. >> out of control. yeah. >> harry runs me out. >> exactly. exactly. so, so, harry, the thing that always fascinates us is finding out what, what influenced people to act the way they do and they're like, you have always been on the cutting edge, you've always been pushing hard in civil rights and you always said things, you weren't afraid of who you upset. where did that come from in your story? your parents, your extended family, what? >> my mother was a very big part of it. and being born in poverty and in harlem during the great depression just at the dawning

of it and my mother is an immigrant woman, all those things put together kind of stirred me up early on to look at the future as something that was going to be extremelied ay aver aversarial and my dna began to pump up because we had no idea how to get out of poverty, who was going to get employed, my father is an alcoholic. i could go on and on, it's all in the book. >> did you ever get content to keep pushing. a lot of people had your fame and success and became content. you seem to use that fame and success to keep pushing forward. >> i became successful despite the odds that were put before me. when i use the flatfoplat form e sure that others have a role model or path to follow, i was touched very deeply by some remarkable people in the 20th

century, eleanor roosevelt and dr. king, nelson mandela. these kind of mentors and friends were walking through your life, it's easier to get influenced and became very engaged in human welfare. >> but the most important is your mother. i'll read an excerpt about the influence of your mother you say this, "after a tough day his mother told a 5-year-old son, harry, when you grow up, son, never go to bed at night knowing there was sxhng you could have done during the day to strike a blow against injustice and you didn't do it. she fell back into silence leaving me to wrestle with what that simple direction meant. it was my rose bud, the moment that imprinted itself on me more lastingly and meaningfully than any other." wow. she had an incredible impact on you. enough to write as the most meaningful moment in your life, to an extent. >> i'll never forget as young as i was how impressionable that

was. she just came back from a hard day hustling for work, couldn't find any. she came in extremely depressed and she sat down, we were in the living room, one room apartment, one room with everything in it and she sat at the edge of the bed and for the longest time i said, mom, what is the matter? she paused. and what you just read is exactly what she said. and i didn't quite understand h what the metaphor was but it struck me. as i went through i kept understanding that the injustices were many and we had a task in front of us to change what we thought was unjust. that launched me into life. everything i've done has been driven by that single principle. >> i don't think, harry, history books talk enough about your role in the civil rights movement behind the scenes, in fact.

martin luther king was a preacher, he didn't have money. harry belafonte was a music star, he had some money. i read stories about you traveling down to the freedom rides with a suitcase full of cash. you personally bank rolling dr. king and bank rolling the kids who were down there fighting injustice. can you speak to that a little bit about the role you played in those days? >> when good fortune came my way and i began to have this global rise and my cultural profile, the biggest question for me was what does one do with that platform and that much money and how do you serve? what do you do with it? you have a choice. stick in beverly hills and get a few more swimming pools and back stroke your way to the bank. or the other was to take a look at the world around you and say, where can i make a difference and who needs it? early on, dr. king knocked at the door, others had done before

him, eleanor roosevelt and stuff, but dr. king, his plea and his direction most appealed to me. and i have resources that he could use and i told him that i would commit to him forever and give him what i thought he needed or what i could possibly attract to fill the couivil rigs movement. >> what is interesting, especially now, you see a lot of celebrities and entertainers who will shy away from social issues, shy away from social causes because in some way it affects their bottom line. in some way, it could affect their business. for a person who is, does have a public profile and who can make an impact what suggestions or recommendations would you make to them on how to get involved and how to successfully and effectively use their voice to push social change? >> if one were to fully understand and appreciate the rewards of what happens when you put yourself in service, i think

people would be more aggressively trying to get involved in human service. if i had not taken that path, i would have never gotten to know half the people in the world that i know. i would have never gotten to sing the songs i sang. i never gotten to go to the places of interest that held such attraction for me. being in that community, waking up and a lot of guys who have made it and taken another path, they wake up every morning and talk to their accountant. i wake up every morning and talk to nelson mandela, who has the better deal? just that fact, the reward of it is what drove me to the payoff, but the world in which i live and i reside, i look at bobby kennedy, i looked at the way in which he and i met and our challenges were severe to one another.

eventually what we were about found the way to expectation and love. we became very close. one of the men i most admired and still do. all these things are very warp for becoming engaged and involved in the human condition. with that much reward, what's there to deny? >> you know, so many stories that you talk about in this book and so much of the focus is on your role as an activist, but you also, interestingly enough, say one of the reasons why you wrote this book was because marlin brando passed away without recalling a lot of the great stories from broadway. this is not just about your role as an activist, but also as your role as an entertainer, as well. talk about some of the other reasons why you wanted to write this book and what people will find when they read it? >> when i became an artist, it was quite by accident.

i had no ambitions to be in the theater. when in your life did you become an activist? the question should become t thr way. i just came out of the second world war navy and i gave two tickets as a gratuity for fixing a broken object in an apartment. when i fixed it, the lady gave me two tickets to go see a play and i walked in never having been in a theater. i was in apollo but that was about music and song and dance and celebration. in the dramatic theater, i had not known what to expect. when the curtains opened and i looked and i saw black artists on stage speaking to human purpose and condition i was deeply taken by the environment and worked my way into trying to become more involved in that.

that then led me to the new school of social research to do deeper study in the art of theater. and there's where i met marlin brando, they're all my classmates. >> wow, that's quite a class. >> marlon and i got very close, extremely. he went off and did his thing, i did mine. but he was truly an icon that shaped the universe of art and theater. and every time i called on marlon about some social issue, we gave ourselves fully to each other. very good for us in the black movement. very good with dr. martin luther king and the march on washington. very good with the black panthers and with especially snake. and then the native americans, american indian movement. but all those things he did have not ever been said. when he passed away, not only felt a great loss, but i also felt america needed to know more

about that part of the lives of those of us who are celebrity. so often maligned for being bleeding hearts and opportunist but, in fact, there's a subtext. something much deeper that motivates us. marlon is a great example of that. i went out to catch films and find others like him. and the book emerged with all these stories. >> amazing. harry belafonte, thank you. thank you so much for being on the show this morning. we appreciate it. coming up, two coaches go face-to-face when a post-game hand shake goes horribly wrong. that and a run down of the weekend's football highlights just ahead. [ inner voice ] establish connection. give me voice control. applications up. check my email and text messages. hands in position. airbags. ten of 'em.

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went to congratulate coach harball and got shoved out of the way and didn't expect an obscenity at that point so, it was a surprise to me at the end of the game. >> who shoved you and who shouted the obscenity? >> i'll just leave it right there. >> that's totally not me. i shook his hand too hard. i really went in and it was a strong, kind of a slap, so, that

was on me. little too hard of a hand shake there. >> it's not you, it's me. it's me in the relationship. >> i want to hear that story. there was a lot going on there. joining us now for "morning joe" gridiron grind mike. mike, what happened there yesterday? >> mike, too hard of a handshake. >> both these coaches are very emotional and very exuberant and not an overabundance of coaches like that but i think it started with rex ryan. more and more of these coaches that wear their heart on their sleeve and they're loud. this is really unprecedented and it's going to be interesting to see where wl the league puts its foot down over there. you have to put a line that you can't cross. >> harbaugh gives him a little push in the back after that hand shake. he's kind of giving him there

and you can see schwartz stew for a second and then you see he didn't catch him. i think harbaugh would have pounded him. >> did he have any intenlt? >> he bumped into him. the league told me last night that the key issues going to be physical contact. you can see schwartz bump into him. schwartz is going to get fined in some way. he chases him down and gives him the shoulder to shoulder thing right there. >> the sad thing, willie, both of these coaches have extraordinary story to tell. we've been excited about detroit from the beginning, but harbaugh has done an amazing job. >> these were door mat teams a couple years ago. >> he did at san francisco what he did at stanford. he turned san francisco 49ers around quicker than anybody dreamed and they are legitimate players. this could be a 12 or 13-win team this year. >> let's hope they sort that

out. patriots come back and win against the cowboys yesterday. needed a little two-minute drill there from tom brady. >> rex ryan's brother had a great job of shutting them down. the last two minutes when the cowboys or the pate reuts got it together and then jerry jones not happy with the offensive play calling. trouble in dallas, even though the team is not bad, they are 2-3. they had it and let it get away. >> how about the ravens. wes wassate the game yesterday. ravens looking good. >> they're winning games in dominant fashion and that one hiccup in nashville, but they seem to be right now the best team in the afc. i think if you put the ravens and the patriots on the field at the same time, the ravens would win that game. >> super bowl, wes? start making plans? >> only to lose to the packers. >> there is that. >> that's where we diverge. >> what about the tampa bay bucks against new orleans yesterday. >> where did they come from? >> they got steam rolled last

week by san francisco, 48-3. this one featured the injury to payton. too close to the sideline. i'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. the buccaneers held on. now 4-3 and the saints are an elite team. >> that's a terrible throw you don't see out of drew brees. >> bad call, ball throw. forcing the ball into coverage. had another guy wide open on the other side of the field. they could have still won that game, but gets tampa bay back into the picture tied with the saints and the falcons also won yesterday. they're tightening the gap. >> nfc east, giants with a big win over the bills. the hot team for the moment last week. giants may be the best team in that division, hard to tell. >> best team in a mediocre division. eagles feel better after beating the redskins but the giants did what they have had to do. the bills and giants went at it and you had a feeling the giants would find a way to blow it,

again. 4-2, top of the division, still ten games to go. >> you mentioned the packers a minute ago, clearly the class of the league right now. >> the packers and then a gap and everybody else. and they're on track to force the road to the super bowl to come through lambeau field. going to be very difficult to beat them there in january. they're playing this regular season like they played in the playoffs last year. they found a higher gear and stayed with it. >> whoal changes them in the nfc, if anybody? who puts pressure on the pack? >> maybe the lions. play them twice starting on thanksgiving. but san francisco at some point in the post-season, you get get the feeling these two teams will cross paths. >> i tell you, i love that, but i tell you, so interesting hearing the talk about things like the niners and the lions and the bills. i mean, you would have never predicted this. >> so exciting. >> it's fantastic. >> it is exciting. let's just say because we have been following it the past couple weeks. the bumps, bruisers, bad games,

michael vick. had a good day yesterday. >> had a little help from rex grossman, four interceptions, instead. >> a win is a win. >> the grossman era may be over. >> a two-man job to get that win yesterday. >> mike florio, thanks. up next, the occupy demonstrations go global and get violent in rome. meanwhile eu officials try to formulate a plan to get out of debt. this is before the ebell, next. yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win.

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they offer me one-on-one guidance to help me choose my investments. not just with my savings plan here at work. they help me with all of my financial goals. looking good, irene. thanks to fidelity, i can stay on top of my financial future, huh? good one. why, thank you. whether it's saving for retirement, college, or anything else, contact a fidelity investment professional today. let's get a check in business before the bell. melissa francis live at the new york stock exchange and jyet to be dragged into the streets kicking and screaming. >> i have yet to do that.

even when you come in at this hour, you can't ignore that. just a maze of fences all around the outside of the exchange, security everywhere. meanwhile, we're watching europe where protests erupted over the weekend, especially in rome. there's supposed to be a plan coming out of europe, at least a piece of it later this week to solve the debt crisis behind the scenes. a three-point plan. a plan to get together to solve the crisis and this had futures positive earlier this morning on the hopes that this would finally be a solution and angela merkel out later this morning sort of throwing cold water on the whole thing saying we're just trying to put together a plan to solve one piece of this, the real thrust of it is a problem. at the same time, we're watching earnings. a huge one-third of the s&p 500 reporting. a lot on our plate down here. back to you guys. >> are people nervous down there? are they holding their martinis

and, you know, are they like, how nervous are they? >> joe, joe, joe, first of all, way too early for martinis. even for you and for me. >> how nervous are they down there? >> see, it's sarcasm like this that is fueling this rally. >> thank you. >> you are the problem, joe. you are, it's comments like that that is making this whole thing a whole lot worse. we have respected it from the beginning, i tell you. i mean, the place is in lock down outside. i don't know if you've been down here, if you come down to our neck of the woods. >> so, what you're telling me is. >> our studio drinking your marti martinis, you just hide it in a coffee cup so nobody knows what you're really drinking, joe. >> when they get nervous, they have to burn like a lot of $100 bills. is that what you're telling me? >> i don't know. i don't have $100 bills, you are the one that makes the big bucks. >> i'm coming down there tomorrow, maybe.

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welcome back to "morning joe joe." what did you learn today, willie? >> i learned today some people on their 65th birthday celebrations when their belated they'll get serenaded by lady gaga. >> lebron james is our good will ambassador. >> wes? >> harry belafonte gave a great