time for a couple e-mails. what are they saying? >> we have a few disturbing cat snuggling with kitty getting a chin wash and watching you. it's jane writing i have insomnia, haven't slept a night all week. i pass the time with croatiaing with the help of my sweet savannah kitty. >> knitting and crocheting. we're glad you are watching even if you are crocheting with your kitties. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ i'm a joker i'm a smoker i'm a midnight toker ♪ >> cain appeared on "meet the press" so i watched and i have to admit he is refreshingly honest. >> mr. cain, welcome to "meet the press." >> i'm delighted to be here. >> your big idea is the 999 plan. >> that's a joke. >> so that is not a serious plan? >> no. that's a joke. >> you got a big laugh. are you the front runner now?

>> that's a joke, david. >> it's a joke. >> okay. thank you very much. >> 6:00 on the east coast. welcome everyone. welcome to "morning joe" on tuesday, october 18th. with us on the set cnn and "time" magazine senior analyst mark halpern and also the president of the council on foreign relations richard haas with us. good to see you as well. >> good morning. >> life actually imitates art because cain actually did call his tax plan a joke. >> what? >> in an op-ed a year ago. >> no. >> herman cain said the sales tax, he said that was a joke. >> but he's grown. >> he's evolved. >> that was 11 months ago. it was the worst idea. >> longer ago than rick perry's book. >> that is true.

where he said social security is a scam. holy cow. this is a great field. >> he's evolving. >> evolving. >> a great tale. >> it's a diverse field. >> yesterday was the first time the united states of america actually invaded a country and announced it in a press release. >> could you clarify what went on? >> we really don't want to know the details. we got the press release. i just find it fascinating that we are now invading countries with such speed that we don't even have time to hold a press conference. >> it's funny but it's not. >> declarations of war are so yesterday. but this is a sign of things to come where if you're in a constant war fighting and you basically think terrorism is a constant challenge then you will be sending off drones or special

forces here, there, and everywhere. this is the new normal. >> next week. barack obama took over bug -- bulgaria, saw bears. >> does john mccain have a point though? he said on the floor of the senate two days ago this administration more than any other refuses to consult congress before -- talking about libya first and now uganda? >> so much consultation is mechanical. there's consultation where you go through the motions. i don't know if this administration is any worse than any other. >> should they consult congress before they send a hundred troops? >> you should always consult congress because then you have a safety net when things don't go well. >> why don't they? >> good question. >> did the jets win last night? >> they won big. >> against the dolphins. >> joe missed it because he was at the cure event last night. >> i was. it was great. >> that was so nice. >> until mayor bloomberg came. that kind of ruined everything. >> he was very nice to me. was he not nice to you?

>> spet it in my face. >> no. it was a lovely event. >> david and susan axelrod were wonderful as always last night and the story is still moving, susan's dedication to this cause. and david is going to be on today. his wife was elbowing him yesterday because he was taking up all of her time. >> he was very differential and talked about cure and allowed her to talk about cure because cure epilepsy.org is something everyone should check into but he is going to come back today because now he feels more like he can fire back at some of the things you were saying that he thought were completely wrong. >> what have i said? >> and me apparently. >> other than the guy he works for is not qualified to be president. that's all i said. >> all bets are off today. yesterday he was deferential to his wife as he should. >> okay. >> can we get to the news now? >> i'd love to get to the news. does anybody want to get to the news? open for a vote?

>> no. we begin with another presidential poll that has herman cain surging ahead. cain is in second place with 25% support. a 19-point jump from a month ago. mitt romney remains in first place with 26%. rick perry's fall continues as he drops 19 points down to 32%. the extra attention cain received in recent days led to a more critical look at his proposals including his 999 plan boasting a simplified 9% business flat tax, 9% individual flat tax, and 9% national sales tax. >> a national sales tax. wow. that is quite an idea. >> that is. >> sort of european but quite an idea. >> now some conservative blogs have pointed out the biggest opponent to the 999 plan may be -- >> mitt romney? >> no. >> jon huntsman? >> no. >> mark halpern? >> one of the other candidates?

>> it's another candidate. it's herman cain himself. in an op-ed that he wrote last november -- >> we're not the idiots. let's see what herman cain said about this plan sweeping the nation that kids are even talking about as they're eating captain crunch. >> like the focus of dinner conversations across america. >> not my dinner. >> he says this about 999. the worst idea is a proposed national sales tax -- >> wait, the worst idea? just a bad idea? did he say his plan was the worst idea? >> the worst. which is a disguised v.a.t. tax, value added tax, on top of everything we already pay in federal taxes. a national retail sales tax on top of all the confusing -- well this is -- let me just clarify that he is just talking about sales, unfair taxes we have today is insane. it gives the out of control bureaucrats and politicians in denial one more tool to lie,

deceive, manipulate, and destroy this country. >> the thing is that's exactly -- >> he's talking about one part of it. >> that is what your good friend grover norquist said when he was here the other day. he said it's like sticking three needles in your arm and that they can draw blood from three separate needles so if you have these three sources of tax revenue, trust me. trust mark halpern. if you give congress a national sales tax, nine is going to become 11 is going to be 15 is going to be 20. and by the way, he is not getting rid of income tax. he is not getting rid of business tax. so, yeah. he opposes his own plan 11 months ago. >> in the third phase you would get rid of the income tax and you'd go to just a -- >> when does that happen? what year does that happen? >> phased in. but look.

herman cain is teflon so far. >> he really is. >> i'm not sure this will hurt him even though as jon stewart would say today herman cain meet 11 month ago herman cain. >> it's a big problem. now the one thing we don't have enough of in this country is consumer demand. why would you encourage something that discourages consumer demand? >> willie geist was kind enough to point out it only taxes new items so if poor people get their pharmaceuticals or their groceries in a used like army/navy surplus store -- >> environmental policy. >> if they get their food used somewhere they won't be taxed for it. >> that's hard to find in my experience, used food is hard to find. >> there is a guy at 76 and broadway who sells jiffy pop that's used. >> all right.

>> what if it's like we always do. we go to 357 and have some smokes at the holiday inn. there is a guy with three day sushi. >> you're wasting our time. >> no. it's never sold. so is that used? >> we call that sweet land of liberty sushi. >> that's still new. >> he is self-aware. it's funny once. cain remains under fire for these comments made this weekend on a book tour. >> is this where he said he wanted to electrocute illegal immigrants? >> while he's on his book tour, running for president and speaking about how to stop illegal immigration. >> part of it will have a real fence 20 feet high with barbed wire, electrified. with a sign on the other side that says, it can kill you. it'll be in english and spanish.

>> yeah. >> i'm out of here. >> don't even -- >> what's up? >> don't crack a joke. >> i'm not cracking a joke. i'm laughing at the man. >> i'm concerned. i'm really scared. >> you should be concerned. it's not even your party. >> two major parties in america. that's the front runner for one of them. >> he hasn't backed down from that. this -- this is exhibit 800 over the past year of why my republican party has lost their way in such a serious, serious way. >> your politico piece talks about this today. >> we laugh about it but it is actually -- >> because we're not crying. >> doesn't this just mean mitt romney is the nominee? >> the romney people love it. let him ride in front and then mitt romney -- >> mitt romney will be the last man standing and he will be the

nominee. >> what's wrong? what's wrong with a political party that michele bachmann takes the lead and herman cain takes the lead and we could go through all the other people that have taken the lead. what is wrong with a group of people in a political party that will reward this type of behavior that has nothing to do with ideology? that's the thing. it has nothing to do with ideology. nothing. it has nothing to do. that's one of the problems. you get all of these people that go out there. they say these hateful comments. everybody just assumes they're conservative. he's a fighter. i'm mad, too. electrocute illegal immigrants. that has nothing to do with herman cain being a small government conservative or michele bachmann being a small government conservative or rick perry bragging about being a small government conservative. nothing to do with that. it's all sort of sound and fury

signifying nothing. >> slogans as my dad said yesterday. >> elevating these people to the top of the field. richard haas, this is not the republican party that i grew up with and that you served under george -- i mean george w. bush is flinching in dallas, texas not believing what he's seeing on tv. it's not just old man bush that looks at this in shock. the entire establishment is shocked by this. >> if you compare this to sort of the eisenhower, ford, nixon, george herbert walker bush it is two different end zones. but this is not ultimately where the republican party is. this is populism. this is, you know, a kind of intense activism. but in the long run this is not going to be i would argue -- >> what if a year ago haley barbour, pence, chris christie

all decided to run serious campaigns. >> it would be a different republican party. what is it about this audition process? i ask this. what is it about this, in my politico piece today, what is it about this audition process that discourages the jeb bush and the chris christie and paul ryan and the mike pences? main stream, say what you want about mike pence if you're a liberal that mike pence can sit there and describe the tax. he's not going to come up with a 999 plan. he is a main stream conservative. you know, you can talk about the governor mitch daniels from indiana. i have real issues with what he did when he ran bush's budget office, that he is a main street republican. he is a solid guy and he understands policy. i'm sorry. i don't mean to insult anybody here but it's very obvious watching herman cain or michele

bachmann, not michele bachmann quite as much as sarah palin and others that have gone to the top of this race. they don't even understand basic policy, basic economics, basic foreign policy. you watch them in the debate and you can figure that out. what's happening? >> tim pawlenty said running for president is too much like a reality show and we're getting less serious rather than more serious. >> there is a serious guy. >> yes. >> runs a blue state. >> yes. >> what does he call himself, a walmart republican? >> sam's club. >> there is a main street guy. he doesn't break through. you can say this willie also with the democratic party. remember four years ago we saw joe biden. >> yeah. >> and chris dodd and hillary clinton win every debate. it was not a close call. good luck going back to those debates and find a debate where either biden, dodd, or hillary didn't win and have the answers to the questions. well, you have barack obama who

was stumbling around and he didn't know what he was talking about. i don't mean to insult anybody but joe biden has been in the united states senate since he was 29 years old. chris dodd has lived in the senate. they understand issues. hillary clinton has been through it time and time again. yet the democratic party picks barack obama because it feels good. and look what it brought them. >> you could say the same thing this time. we've said every time the last three or four debates mitt romney clearly won. he's the guy who looked like he knew what he was talking about and his numbers are staying right where they are. you wonder if we all come out and say mitt romney is going to be the nominee? when does that move happened? iowa announced yesterday january 3rd will be the caucuses less than three months away and he is still in a tie with herman cain. when does cain fall and when does romney start his rise? that is the interesting question. >> i wish he was surrounded by a more qualified bunch so the game would be raised. so the conversation would be raised. because right now it's just romney talking to a -- well -- i got to be careful what i say.

>> i think rick perry may have another surge in him. i think he may go up with the 30-second commercials. i think he may get his footing. i think yet he may be mitt romney's real challenge. >> it almost has to happen. >> because it's not really fair for me to put perry as much as i've attacked rick perry, for a lot of different reasons, for stupid things he said, it's not fair to put him in herman cain's category at all because rick perry, he ran state. he ran one of the biggest states for a decade. his jobs record is great. i'm not defending but i am separating out that rick perry is no herman cain. rick perry is no michele bachmann. rick perry is no sarah palin. rick perry ran a big state and most people there would say he ran it pretty damn well. >> all along we thought there were going to be essentially two republican primaries, establishment primary and more conservative primary. at the end of the day rick perry

is the most likely competitor out of the conservative primary to take on romney. >> yeah. rick perry ran a state and of the list that you talk about donald trump ran a company. >> donald trump built a $7 billion company. >> so front page of the "new york times" a profile of, picture of the different people down on wall street. members of the occupy wall street movement spread their fight against corporate greed throughout the country as president obama took republicans to task saying the alternative jobs proposal would benefit the very people protesters are rallying against. >> it turns out the republicans have a plan, too. i want to be fair. they called this plan last week the real american jobs act. turns out the republican plan boils down to a few basic ideas. they want to gut regulations. they want to let wall street do whatever it wants.

they want to drill more. and they want to repeal health care reform. that's their jobs plan. >> new data suggests most americans -- >> wait, wait. i'm sorry. >> you said you weren't going to say it. >> i've gone after republicans. i've also said obama was clearly not as qualified as hillary clinton or joe biden to be president. so i'm going after both sides but here how can this president, mark halpern, say that all those republicans, they are of wall street. you occupy wall street. he brought in wall street to run his economic team. he brought in larry summers. he brought in people that there were there at the fire. he brought in all the cows that kicked over the lanterns, that burned the city down. >> and he got a lot of campaign contributions. >> he got more money from wall street, you're right, than any candidate in the history of u.s.

politics. >> and he also passed the toughest regulation of wall street we've seen. didn't go far enough for a lot of people. >> it's not tough legislation. but is there any president who has passed tougher? >> there's no doubt about it he made a mistake surrounding himself with people with such an orientation toward the establishment and wall street. >> he certainly, willie, you look at the forum and it is safe to say he is no fdr, certainly no teddy roosevelt. you know, we need a trust buster is what we need. >> too big to fail is firmly in place and he took tons and tons of money during the campaign so it seems anger is a little misplaced. perhaps we should be looking back at washington. >> exactly, willie. he did pass this legislation but since he's been president too big to fail has gotten even bigger. the biggest banks have gotten even bigger. wall street has gotten even more powerful and more profitable. >> i don't know --

>> i'm not blaming the president but the president's part of the system that allows this to happen. i mean, i'm saying it's both sides. >> that's just a fact. do we have the poll, guys, we were talking about? mika, did you read that? >> go ahead. >> who americans blame. 64% of americans blame washington. 30% blame wall street. >> americans have a right. it shouldn't be occupy wall street. it should be occupy pennsylvania avenue. the real challenge to this country right now is both ends of pennsylvania avenue if we could have gotten the budget deal and the rest we wouldn't have anything like the problems we're having with our economy. it ain't wall street. it's washington. >> thank you. >> it's also washington that in '99 allowed the banks to get into this business. bill clinton's people pushed it, said this was the thing to do. it's also washington that allowed the big banks to leverage 40-1 and bring down this economy. >> created fannie mae and freddie mac. >> washington created and enabled fannie mae, freddie mac.

washington was the one that also when people like ron paul gave speeches warning that what was happening at fannie and freddie would lead to the banks and lead to a bubble and lead to a collapse of the entire economy. republicans said things like that were called racist on the banking committee. said they just didn't like black people. >> that was all preobama was it not? >> we're a big enough country to occupy both. we can occupy both. >> that was preobama. i'm saying it's both sides. but for the president, well, by the way, though, the biggest contributor to barack obama by the way, barack obama was the number one recipient of money from fannie and freddie from the time he got on the senate floor so, again, all i'm saying is there are no clean hands in washington on this issue. >> coming up this morning david axelrod will be here onset. also republican congressman frank wolf who says grover

norquist antitax pledge is paralyzing congress. we're also going to bring in delaware attorney general beau biden. plus the jets try to turn their season around on monday night football against the winless dolphins. highlights are straight ahead in sports. first to bill karins for a check on the forecast. >> mika, you get so excited talking about the football games as always. good morning everyone. this is going to be the last really nice fall day from the mid-atlantic to new england. it looks like wednesday is going to be wet. thursday is going to be cool and windy. here is a look at all the nasty weather now in the southeast down to florida, also traveling through arkansas. this is all going to head up the east coast on wednesday. so right now the heaviest of the rain is down in florida. that's going to head northward during the day today so in atlanta, everywhere in georgia by the way, you need your umbrella. again, we're dry from boston to d.c. this is going to be a gorgeous tuesday but the conditions are going to go downhill tomorrow. we're also watching stormy weather in areas of arkansas, tennessee, and mississippi as we go throughout the morning. it's much cooler today in areas

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>> mitt romney is a good moral person but he is not a christian. mormonism is not christianity. it has always been considered a cult by the main stream of christianity. >> i mean, if y'all want to vote for a cult leader -- i'm not gonna. that is the sweetest, most good natured, pleasant [ bleep ] on an entire religion i have ever seen. bless his heart. yeah. he deserves to be in hell but certainly on a different floor than hitler. >> time now to take a look at the morning papers at 27 past the hour. we'll begin with our parade of papers.

"the boston globe" says lessons learned from 2008 have strengthened mitt romney, who continues to appear more polished in one appearance after another. we'll see if that trend continues during tonight's debate in vegas" the dallas morning news" a case of pitting veterans groups against advocates of free speech. yesterday the supreme court said it would decide whether congress can make it a federal crime to lie about having earned military decorations or medals. the "new york times" says governor cuomo is digging in his heels against extending a so-called millionaire's tax on high earning new yorkers. he says it would put new york at a competitive disadvantage with neighboring states but governor cuomo said he would support a federal millionaire's tax as it would treat residents of all states equally. >> "the financial times" reporting research in motion is offering an apology for the global outage that left many blackberry users without access to e-mail for three days last week. r.i.m. says it will give

blackberry users $100 worth of free apps which will only clutter up their blackberry more so their texting capabilities and e-mail capabilities will be -- >> when you're typing it has to catch up with you because it is so full of junk that it can't think. >> they can't keep up with apple on that front. again, can i, willie, go on that internet thing. >> got one right here yeah. >> can i go to that ebay and find me a blue, one of the old -- >> mr. dependable. >> i love that. >> it's dependable. i'm dead serious. i would carry that around if i could get a good one that had nothing but e-mail, text, and phone. could i get that on ebay? >> absolutely. i don't know if you could get hooked up. >> in all fairness the iphone is annoying too. the typing is difficult. >> would they service it? >> they would. the palm feature would have to

be disabled. otherwise it would -- >> i want the one before. if you can get one circa 2000 i would buy it and carry it. >> i find myself in the conundrum it turns out a lot of other americans do. i love the e-mailing on the blackberry. >> yeah. >> pushing the buttons. you get on the iphone and you got to get your fingernail on there to type it. >> doesn't work. don't like it. >> you do have colossal fingers. >> i do. huge fingers. >> big, meaty hands. >> i have the same problem. >> there are a lot of people that are on the droids that would tell you they have sort of the happy medium. >> it's frustrating. it smelpells for you. i hate that. don't spell for me. >> so i'm going to see if i can use my $100 to get one of the old blue ones. >> the track wheel. >> i swear that's all i'd carry around. richard haas is with me. let's bring it back. old school. >> retro. >> he's just hoping we get back to a --

>> kicking at old school as the kids in the streets say. >> making note in your trapper keeper to look for that thing. >> let's go to jim standing by patiently with a look at -- hello, jim. >> hello. how are we? doing okay. interesting story about the road ahead. for president obama, looking at some swing states and having trouble you guys found with independents. what's the story? >> i think virginia is a great place to look and for where the president's problems started and how they might end for him. people talk about the president's problems today but you really can trace them back to the summer of 2009 and that's when he really started to lose independent voters when he started to talk a lot about health care and back then about cap and trade. in his support among independents it's plummeted in a lot of swing states. virginia for instance he won about 50% of independents to win virginia which is a tough state for democrats. his favorable rating is now around 29%. if he cannot repair his image

with independents by election day it's simple. he can't win re-election. that problem looks like it's been pretty durable for him because the numbers have not really moved that much from the summer of 2009 until today. >> jim, is that 29% number a virginia number or a national number? >> that is a virginia number but it really does track pretty closely with his performance in other swing states. the national number is important but the most important number is how is he doing in ohio, colorado, virginia, florida, wisconsin, pennsylvania, places that are authentically in play in 2012? and that independent number is bad. again, it's been bad. the only time that he's seen a surge among independent voters during that period, a real substantial one, was after the assassination of bin laden and that only lasted about a week so it shows how hard it is for him to have an external event that can really move independents back toward him. so i think he needs to wait until he has a binary choice,

probably six or seven months from now, before he can pull independents back or have a legitimate shot at that. >> he swept the swing states in 2008 and needs to do it again. i love the question you pose about tonight's debate. herman cain will be the focus because of the week he's had. you say there is one big question he has to answer for everyone. quote, are you serious? >> i think it's what the debate is going to be all about tonight. he said a lot of things even in the last week if you go back to the "meet the press" interview where he says he is not familiar with neoconservativism and a big debate that has really captured and defined the republican party over the last decade. we talked to our reporter taurkd about this chief of staff and his top economic adviser and they both continue to talk about how they don't know who his advisers are and they don't know what the policy is whether they're allowed to even disclose who those advisers are. those just aren't the things you're used to hearing from a serious presidential campaign. >> jeff, he doesn't have advisers. >> i think that's probably a big part of the problem.

he does not have an economic team or a foreign policy team. is it not a book tour that has morphed into a front running campaign without any serious policy support? >> the question is, can he get it and can he get it quickly? does he even want to get it and get it quickly? it is not even clear to us, his campaign manager told us yes he is working aggressively to put together a policy team. we're not seeing a lot of evidence of it. he has to do that quickly to take advantage of the search. >> there will be questions in nevada about that electric fence i assume tonight as well. >> and uzbeki-stan-stan. >> thanks, jim. a decades old video surfaces of herman cain which he tries to imagine a world without pizza. ♪ imagine there's no pizza i couldn't if i tried ♪

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all right. time for sports and monday night football. all of a sudden the humble new york jets are coming off three straight losses. they absolutely had to win at home last night against the winless dolphins. first quarter bad start for the jets. kickoff, ball bounces off one of the jets. miami picks it up on the 18 yard

line. surely they'll punch it in for a score. but this is what happens when the 2011 miami dolphins get the ball on the jets' 18 yard line. matt moore horribly underthrows the ball right into the hands of doral revis. kind of strolls through traffic and waltzes in for a 100-yard touchdown return. one of his two interceptions. >> did the dolphins just sit down? >> no. they're just not good. jets defense, only two field gomes. holmes over the middle. terrible job by the dolphins there. >> what is wrong with that team? >> sanches a couple touchdowns. ended the game here. jets running off the clock. shawn greene who is a bull runs over the ref. just couldn't get out of the way. >> help me out here. >> jets beat the dolphins, 24-6. new york 3-3, undefeated at home, winless on the home. next week the 4-1 chargers at

home in new jersey. >> is parcel still involved with the dolphins? >> he's gone. >> when did he leave? >> i don't know. two years ago. >> how did the dolphins get so bad? >> they've struggled at the quarterback position for sure. >> not to mention the other positions. >> and the other 21 positions. >> exactly. >> entire team. >> dolphins fans will tell you they want to lose out and get the number one pick in the draft. they're on their way! the anti-72 dolphins. in other nfl news the league has announced no fines, no punishment handed down for the little scuffle that took place after sunday's lions/49ers game. that is jim schwartz of the lions and jim harbaugh of the 49ers. we showed you this yesterday. the coaches weighed in yesterday after a day of cooling off. >> i have shaken hands, i don't know, 40, 50 times over the last two and a half years or so. never had anything come up. i mean, you know, obviously something did. >> we're not here today to throw

any salvos. there's not going to be any salvos coming out of the west coast. no, i don't think there's, you know, any reason for an apology. >> apologies always seem to be like excuses, you know? like i said earlier, just try to do better. work on the post game handshake. >> you know, harbaugh is coming out of this looking so good and schwartz, again, i love the lions. it's a remarkable story. i love detroit. but man, he should have just apologized. >> it helps when you win to be magnanimous, jim harbaugh, and say, you know, i shouldn't have -- >> should john schwartz have apologized? >> yes. opinion pages next. sun life financialrating should be famous.d bad,

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42 past the hour. a live look at the capitol hill before the sun comes up over washington. time now for the must read opinion pages. we'll start in "the wall street journal." polling the occupy wall street crowd. i think this is going to generate a pretty good conversation here. >> doug worked with the clinton administration. >> right. i'm going to read two. president obama and the democratic leadership are making a critical error in embracing the occupy wall street movement and it may cost them the 2012 election. yet the occupy wall street movement reflects values that rate. ngerously out of touch

>> richard, what do you think? >> i think those who embrace this movement are playing as she says correctly with fire. to get elected in this country you have to believe that war is right than wrong. these people, kind of an angry

populist, their positive agenda does not stand scrutiny. i think they are focusing on the wrong target, on wall street as a kind of populist issue rather than pennsylvania avenue as a governing issue. >> you agree president obama is playing with fire embracing the occupy wall street crowd? >> i think it is very hard if you represent the incumbent and the government to essentially throw in your lot with a bunch of people who are populist and running against incumbency and government. it is very hard to straddle that. >> hum. >> mark, you were down there. >> i don't totally agree. i think if you look at, it is analogous to the tea party movement. look at the activists and the movement itself. it is a small group of people many of whom have views that might be considered outside main stream and not politically popular but the ethos of the group that says things are wrong, i think that is a popular message to embrace as long as you're not shackled with every

part of every protest. >> so the three people who carry the crazy signs, look at the bigger sto, bigger issue represented by this protest. and the same thing with the occupy wall street crowd. obviously some people are just down there to make trouble but you look at the bigger issue you think it's worth it. you went down there. >> two days in a row. there is a national crisis going on now for several years. short-term unemployment, long-term no clear path for the middle class to have better lives than the previous generations. embracing that message and saying we need radical change in this country, fundamental change probably didn't say radical if you're running for president as the incumbent. fundamental change to put jobs and changing td rules of the game at the top of the agenda i think is a winning message if you're not saddled with every particular of everybody down there. >> it's awfully hard if you represent, if you represent government to run against that. if you start putting under a microscope what a lot of these people are calling for it doesn't bear scrutiny. they don't have a serious agenda about getting people back to

work. they are talking economic redistribution and the rest and that is not going to do it. >> you were looking at the front page of the "new york times" the story that talks about occupy wall street. what are you reading? >> well it just talks a little bit about what their grievances are. i wonder if when movements start do the people who start movements poll like this? i wonder how fair this is. while the protesters seem to be feeling the system is stacked against them with the rules written to benefit the rich and the connected they're also just as often angry about issues closer to home like education and a local environment. each gathering bubbles up from its own particular city stew of circumstances and grievances. there are a lot of uniform problems that i think people are pretty upset about. >> richard, the rules are written right now to benefit the rich are they not? an 18% tax rate for the wealthy in america. >> it's also the rich who are paying the preponderance of taxes in america.

again, what matters historically is not that you have inequality which is obviously high in the united states. it's that people at the lower end have the reality and believe they have the opportunity to improve. people don't need to eliminate inequality. they need to feel they have an opportunity themselves. inequality, per se, is not the problem. it is mobility at the bottom. >> but the problem is, though, over the past quarter century, there are a lot of things. you've got a lot of pop unite lists that get it wrong when they talk about protectionism, when they talk about china and india, when they talk about wall street. the reality is china opened up in 1978. globalism has been exploding ever since. we're becoming more productive, mark. that means that, you know, fewer workers are needed so it's not just that the laws are stacked against them but the fact is the rich are getting richer in this new environment. >> right. again, as richard says, the problem is middle class, lower middle class mobility. but that's fundamentally out of

whack. we have not fixed in the last few decades as things have changed. we haven't fixed the fundamental social contract of how people can feel they can get education and get work opportunities and the current government in washington is responding to that but neither is the business. >> willie, the bottom line is, though, i agree there need to be marches in washington as well. >> absolutely. if president obama throws his arms around these people it reinforces for republicans and some independents perhaps what they already believe about him which is that he twoonts redistribute wealth and filter money through washington to get it out to the people. >> news you can't use is straight ahead on "morning joe."

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time for news you can't use. we all know herman cain has a beautiful set of pipes. heard it on his gospel album. this as clip from 1991, mr. cain singing at the omaha press club. joe, i know you are a big beatles fan. i think you'll enjoy this particularly. >> i know i will. ♪ imagine there's no pizza i couldn't if i tried

eating only tacos or kentucky fried ♪ ♪ imagine only burgers it's frightening and sad ♪ ♪ you're lucky you have pizza to feed your kids for you only frosting or cookies and no dishes you must do ♪ >> 1991, courtesy of "the omaha world herald" "imagine there is no pizza" by former godfather's ceo herman cain. >> richard, you ask an important

question. >> what is the rest of the world thinking when they see these things? >> he's the front runner. >> you can laugh but the message is spot on. do you want to live in a world without pizza? >> absolutely not. >> yes, i do, actually. especially when they inject the crust with cheese. seriously. >> good tv. >> i cannot wait for a medieval cookie, cinabon, hot yellow cool-aid and save a pretzel for the gas jets. >> your arm wouldn't defend you. it's better not to do it. when i buy stickers for folks in prison i bring milk not back yard meth. it's a prison party. >> so those are the previous from bad lip reading.com. rick perry, michele bachmann, and now today mitt romney. >> yes. >> i was happy and then your sister threw a sea fish at my tv. >> how are you? cookies. can i take one?

hey, thank you for the bench. don't commit suicide. if madonna had a wooden statue, she just gobbled that sardine. i'm freezing out here. got to get away. happy step child. i told you to check it out. oh, hey. this is for the cow. >> thank you. >> in america, we have a song. ding dong llama wanny jumping with an ice pick she thinks i'm going in. >> there you go. mitt romney. incredibly stupid but funny. >> so dumb. >> it's so well done. >> so dumb. made specifically for this program. >> it is. >> and don't forget. >> again, richard, your question? >> bad lip reading.com. up next david axelrod. ♪ i couldn't if i tried

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if your car's totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. to learn more, visit us today. responsibility. what's your policy? one myth is that i'm not in this race to win it. that i'm just trying to get my profile up so i can get a tv show or a radio show. if you know herman cain you know that nothing is further from the truth. if you don't believe me, i

invite you to get a copy of my new book "this is herman cain" if you can find one because they're selling like hotcakes. and if you know me, you will know i'm not in this for show. >> oh, my gosh. does he know? maybe that was humor again. he was just kidding. there is no way he -- right? it's not possible, is it? >> not a good sense of timing in show business. >> was that an unself-aware moment or another attempt at humor? >> he is all over it. >> welcome back to "morning joe." msnbc analyst and visiting professor at nyu, former democratic congressman harold ford jr., good to have you back. >> good morning. glad to be back. >> what do you think, mika? >> well, i think i want to move on from herman cain because i think we're taking all of this just a little too seriously. >> he is in first place. >> he wants to sell his book. he doesn't want a reality show

or radio show he says but then starts selling his book. >> he is in first place. >> you know what? that is your problem, america. seriously. what is going on? what is going on? what do people think of us, richard? >> let's change the subject. >> a bunch of slogans and characters? >> if you wake up in europe these days you got real things to worry about other than, you know, herman cain. >> it is a disturbing trend that we're seeing in the republican field. >> it looks like political anilism on the republican side. front page of the "new york times", some moderates and conservatives would say it is also political anilism on the democratic side. you occupy wall street. protesters pushing a big idea that i think a lot of us around this table agree with. income inequality continues to explode and is a real threat to the middle class. that said, harold ford, i want to follow up on something we

talked about last hour where richard haasse believes and in an op-ed in "the wall street journal" today, it just doesn't make good sense politically to embrace occupy wall street if you're barack obama. do you think the president is making a mistake or should he embrace occupy wall street? >> he has to figure out how to leverage the energy and understand that but i think it would probably be helpful to him if the occupy wall street movement which is compared to the tea party movement because of some of the energy on the left side developed an agenda. i teach at nyu. one of our exercises this week is to look back at the tea party manifesto and the things they set forth. some of the practitioners meaning candidates or others may have nom fully embodied the principles -- but they had a plan. whatever the plan may be, whether it's to say you want to raise taxes on a certain group of people, you want to lower taxes on a certain group of people. >> right. >> they have to have four or five things or three or four things that people, whether you agree or not, that are realistic, that can be

translated. >> we all know the big idea, though. the big idea is defy income inequality. >> i don't think anyone disagrees with that. i think the overwhelming majority of the country is aligned with that. give us three or four things. but there are other people who, i ask my students how many have gone down and they said there were those that were holding up posters in favor of changing social policy, in favor of marriage equality, in favor of choice. which is fine. i'm supportive of it. but at the same time the movement's underlying motivation is coming from another place. one thing on herman cain. i think in fairness to him i don't know what he was answering about his book. he might have been answering some question about himself personally. i think there are short comings to his candidacy. i think it is hard to discount what he's been able to accomplish because we've, a lot of people have made not fun of him as much as suggested the campaign-like seriousness. it may still lack a level of seriousness but in fairness to him he has come from absolutely nowhere to now two weeks in a

row, something to be said for that. he is leading the presidential field on the republican side. he may not be there for long but he is leading. >> i'm going to read from your politico piece because i think this really sums it up. we didn't get into it in must reads. the reality show facing gop voters, to your point, harold, i say this and this is part of joe's essay. the fact that citizen cain takes great pride in his ignorance of global affairs is understandably unnerving to american voters in this unstable age. but on the small stage on which mr. cain now finds himself, the godfather's pizza ceo fits with these vapid times as much as james dean did with his in the 1950s classic "rebel without a cause." sadly, cain and his fellow cast members are a little more than rebels without a clue. that reality is a dismal curtain call for the republican party and the country it hopes to run. compared with the gop's field of reality stars, george w. bush looks like brando.

paul ryan is as attractive as robert redford, and chris christie is brad pitt. so much for an audition process that leaves the audience once again aching for more. >> and the setup for this, richard, when i say that herman cain takes pride in his ignorance of global affairs, is when somebody asked him about foreign leaders and he said, well if i'm asked to name the leader of -- i'm quoting here. ubekee-bekee-stan-stan i'll just ask them, do you know the answer? this is a guy that sees it as a positive that he's got no economic advisers and that he is ignorant of global affairs. and he is not alone in the republican field. there are others that seem to have taken pride in the fact that they really don't know a whole lot about what's going on outside of their small world. >> right. a little bit of a throwback to the old know nothings. there is a kind of against the establishment, to be

knowledgeable about the world somehow reeks of being part of the establishment and this is a moment of real populism and real anti-establishmentism. ultimately this won't last. one of the things you do elect is a commander-in-chief. somehow between now and a year from now in the election there will be some foreign crises and we'll look at these people through the prism. do we trust these people to be president? >> can i ask you about the prisoner swap in israel? the new york post today has an op-ed, free to kill again. they talk about the trade that netanyahu is willing to make for the soldier that's been held captive now for four years, five years. and so the palestinians, the leagues of hamas that are going to be let out include a man who proudly raised his bloody hands to a cheering crowd after killing two israelis, a man in 2001 drove a suicide bomber to a crowded pizzeria where he killed

15 people. the guy that planned that bombing. someone who planned a suicide bombing of a jerusalem cafe that killed seven civilians. and on and on and on. why is netanyahu making this trade and allowing all of these terrorists to go free? >> what "the post" is missing is three things. the trade is wildly popular in israel. people really applaud the prime minister for doing it. second of all ever since the israelis built the security fence the threat and reality of terrorism have dramatically receded so israelis correctly calculated they can let a lot of these people go. it won't become a real physical threat. thirdly, by helping hamas a little bit here, it sticks, points the stick a little bit at the palestinian authority. the israelis did not like the speech he gave to the u.n. very unhappy with the speech and the whole gambit of going to the u.n. this is a way of playing the palestinians off. so for all of these reasons this makes strategic and political sense for the prime minister of israel. >> it's -- americans can't

understand what an emotional issue this is in israel. it's a small country. everyone there feels the connection to this issue and to this family and it becomes a political imperative, not just popular, but a political imperative if they could get him back they had to do it whatever the cost. >> absolutely right. >> so you say this is wildly popular letting hamas terrorists free. >> no. it's not, again, the israelis feel they have the luxury of letting these people out because they can't pose terrorist attacks anymore against them. the real thing is what mark said. the shalit issue has become such a cause celeb every israeli family has adopted him and the fact that after five years he is going to be released today tremendous, tremendous impact. >> there is no equivalent in the united states of people being so emotionally connected to a family and to a human life that i can think of. >> every israeli family could identify. this could have been our son or our daughter. this is still a country of 6 million people. it's small and this had a tremendous impact. >> did you see what's happening in massachusetts, mika? >> yeah. we should take a look at this

race. one of my favorite. both are my favorite candidates. this is a great race. massachusetts, the senate race is heating up. bay state republicans are going after democratic front runner elizabeth warren for comments that she made during a web interview yesterday. >> the senate and we would like you to, you know, as a fellow person born in oklahoma and i've been called a hick a lot myself. >> i'm going to the hick mode here. i just want you to know. that's one of my -- maybe hicks for elizabeth. could we do that? >> so she said i'm going for the hick vote? >> she's going after the hick vote in massachusetts and now a big explosion. >> the republican party spokesman tim buckley called the comments, quote, a revealing prism into warren's elitist and arrogant world view. i don't think so. a spokesman for warren called her remark self-deprecating and light hearted in the moment of a

conversation. help me out here. >> the thing is she is from oklahoma. >> yeah. >> it seems she was talking about herself as well. but the danger obviously is being seen as the next martha cokely, a harvard professor talking about hicks. again, i think she was talking about herself. >> what is going on? >> because she is from oklahoma and she proudly said she's from oklahoma. she doesn't pass herself off an elitist like cokely but running against scott brown in a really blue collar state, that's treading on thin ice. >> probably not the smartest thing to say. but this is a hot house environment she is running in now is trying to win the nomination first. i think there are more important things for the people of massachusetts to be concerned about than her making a joke like that. >> she working hard? >> she is working hard and she's shown good candidate skills so far. >> no doubt about it. >> i think if the republicans are going crazy over this it might be because they're very worried by her because it does not seem like that big a deal. >> of course. the president is still going around on his bus tour. >> he's got a two-state bus tour. he is taking his jobs message

back to voters as he presses congress to reconsider that legislation. once again the legislation they blocked last week. the president, who previously wanted the american jobs act passed as one bill, said the white house has a new strategy to get the plan through the senate and the house. >> we're going to give members of congress another chance to step up to the plate and do the right thing. we're going to give them another chance to do their jobs by looking after your jobs. this week i'm asking members of congress to vote. what we're going to do is break up my jobs bill. maybe they just couldn't understand the whole thing all at once. so we're going to break it up into bite sized pieces. >> back on capitol hill, senator john mccain blasted the president for what he said was a focus on votes and not jobs. >> and spent a number of minutes

attacking our plan and i understand that. i think the question might be, though, is that appropriate on the taxpayers' dime since it is clearly campaigning and i must say, again, i've never seen an uglier bus than the canadian one. he's traveling around on a canadian bus touting american jobs. what i hope is that we could, once the president gets off of his campaign trail, that we could sit down and come to agreement in some areas. >> okay. they'd have to agree to sit down with him. >> what do you think? does it look like a campaign? >> to his point, president obama continues his jobs push today in north carolina. >> a swing state. >> to virginia tomorrow. >> a swing state. >> yes, exactly. >> he's going to all the swing states. >> look, i think -- what would you be doing at this time in the campaign as well as -- you'd try and do both. >> actually i would be sitting down getting things done. i would. >> here's the problem.

>> you asked what i would do. >> the republicans actually have to agree to sit down with him. >> actually i would sit down and get things done. >> i would call them in if i were him, get in their face and call them in every day. >> you know, bill clinton and newt gingrich got things done despite the fact both men loathe each other. harold, we were there at the time. you can get things done if you know how washington works. and you don't know how washington works if you're campaigning around swing states. i think politically this makes a lot of sense. hammer away on jobs. we've been saying he should do it since 2009. >> but he is. >> i know. that's what i'm saying. politically it makes sense. but i will tell you in the short run it does but economically, harold, they better get something done and you're not going to get things done making fun of republicans on the campaign trail in swing states. >> politically you're right. you got to hit the road. you got to make your case. the question will be once you finish these bus tours what do you really have to show for it? the president is going to have to be able to translate what he's doing now into something meaningful. i don't know if he'll be able

to. i would say to john mccain the republicans if they're serious about their jobs bill they ought to bring it up in the house, pass it, and try to bring it up in the senate. they're playing politics as much as the president and arguably the republicans' stubbornness in wanting to deal with the president on debt reduction or even a jobs plan, because as much as we may say the president should be focused on jobs the republicans have no -- >> they've been playing politics. no doubt about it. >> i do put a little more responsibility on the president. he's got to lead a little more. and i give him credit for being on the road but he has to translate that into something that will create jobs or give the business community some confidence. >> some big risks. it is still a year to go before the election. by essentially choosing campaigning over governing it means we'll go into an election with 9% unemployment or worse. and a very different strategy would be to focus much more on objectively trying to govern than necessarily assuming that the bad is going to stay and just running against it. >> all about the super

committee. the super committee can produce something in the national interest in a bipartisan way. the president can jump on that. otherwise i fear nothing is going to happen to deal with unemployment or anything else until january or february. >> are you saying the president is incapable of doing it himself? >> i think they feel like the republicans won't work with them on anything that the president thinks would be a good idea and he has to continue to try to put pressure on them to break. they believe if he continues to go out and sell his ideas that republicans will break. >> is anybody paying attention? >> that's the primary problem. >> is anybody paying attention to this? >> can you name three things in the president's plan? i'm not trying to test you. i don't know if average americans can name -- i know he wants infrastructure spending. >> right. >> i don't think they really know what he wants. that's why as i listen to the clip he's got to lay out. here are the two or three things i want, the republicans want. i'm giving them theirs. here is what i want. i'm asking for mine. let's get a jobs bill passed. that's not happening. >> i actually think, because i think the president needs to embrace one big idea and i think it needs to be tax reform.

that way you can embrace the goals of occupy wall street without sounding like a demagogue. you can say the rich are getting richer. the poor are getting poorer. the tax code is convoluted. let's simplify it, strip it down, and that would sell. i think you could get the republicans in the corner because they're not going to want real tax reform. >> even if you got this kind of a jobs bill it's not going to create jobs. you need something much bigger. you have to create an environment where the businesses sitting on $2 trillion will start to spend and invest. >> how do you do that? >> give them predictability. reduce regulation. do some tax reform. create an environment where businesses will say, okay. we are safe and smart to start spending. >> but the president can't do that. he can't support reducing regulations. >> he has to start -- >> his party will revolt. >> he can do it without his party. the president as you well know, he did it with epa reducing emission standards. >> he'll demoralize his base if what he is about is reducing regulation on business. >> but jobs growth, growth cures

everything. >> it's not going to happen. i agree but it won't happen in the short term. >> there is no way this president can support cutting regulations for businesses while occupy wall street is going on and while americans are feeling the way they are. i understand what you're saying. and i agree with the economic theory. but politically, my gosh, mika, that would -- i think that would be the bitter end. i think the president coming out reducing regulation could be the final straw and actually give him a democratic challenger. >> well, he is in a very difficult position for re-election and the perfect person to talk about that with is coming up and all bets are off. >> who is that? who would be the perfect person? >> senior adviser to president obama david axelrod. >> i wish he'd come. >> he will. >> he is afraid. >> i don't think so. the cover of "the wall street journal" this morning, a new mortgage plan that could help some under water borrowers.

but will it work? delaware attorney general beau biden joins us next to tell us about his plan to fix the foreclosure problem. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ dog barks ] [ kid ] dad? who is honus...wagner? no idea. let me see that. that's a honus wagner autograph... the hall of famer? look at this ball! yeah, found that at a yard sale. i thought pickles would like it. [ dog barks ] that a new car jerry? yeah... sweet, man. [ male announcer ] the audi a8. named best large luxury sedan. ♪ new splenda® essentials™ no calorie sweetener with b vitamins, the first and only one to help support a healthy metabolism. three smart new ways to sweeten. same great taste. new splenda® essentials™.

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welcome back to "morning joe" 23 past the hour. >> look at this. this is big. a great american here. >> joining us now the attorney general of delaware, beau biden. >> this is big. >> good to have you on the show. how are you? >> great, mika. thanks for having me. >> you guys know each other. >> we went to penn together. >> really. >> our fathers introduced us on locust walk. >> any good stories? >> you're still friends? >> we've been friends since. >> that's shocking. >> most of harold's friends don't take. >> the story is he is smarter than i am. >> how nice. >> i got elected to congress. he went and prosecuted war criminals on behalf of the country halfway around the world and now is doing the same, a very similar thing, good thing

in delaware. >> he is inflating my resume a little bit but thank you. >> i want to change the prefix some day. i don't mean anything bad to the senators y'all have but i want to change your prefix some day. >> i hear you. >> the cover of "the wall street journal" mentions this new mortgage plan which could help under water borrowers get help. how would it work? >> well, you know, i haven't read that story yet but there are a lot of folks doing a lot of work to try to figure out how to fix this problem. one-third of america is under water. what i've been focused on, any time you get 50 attorneys general to agree you know something bad has happened. what's happened is this robo signing scandal you talk about. but really what happened at the workshops i've done in my state for the last many months, 20 of them, people lining up outside the door, the story is robo signing. it's lying to the court, filing false affidavits when a bank seeks to foreclose. what i really hear about is the borrower not being able to get their lender on the phone. just have a discussion, a meaningful discussion about

whether or not to modify their mortgage. look, i lost my job. my wife has breast cancer. she has to work reduced hours. i can afford 900 bucks a month versus a thousand. will the bank work with me? joe, it used to be banks would work with you on that. >> right. >> you can't even get the bank on the phone right now. >> listen, banks used to be local banks. even over the past decade that's changed so much. and how amazing that even since the collapse on september 15th, 2008, too big to fail has gotten even bigger. >> that is exactly right. >> you would see your banker at the grocery store, church. that's what you mean. >> that's what i'm saying. no doubt about it. of course you have local branches but there are less people. if i had a problem and i knew somebody in my community for 25 years, and like you said, if i could afford 900 instead of a thousand, i could go in and sit down and talk to them and say, listen. i'm going to keep working, you know, move up the interest rates. do whatever. they would work with us. now you get three or four, well the banks -- multinationals.

>> they own the note but the local banks don't own it. they sell it the next day. >> right. >> and so it's been sold and chopped up 15 times before it ends up in a pension fund. >> right. >> so what's happening now is the servicing arms of the big banks, they're incentivized to foreclose. the incentive is to foreclose because that is the better business deal for them. they're out money. they have front money to the investor they have to pass money to from the borrower. the incentive is completely turned around from 15 years ago. that's why we have the foreclosure crisis from my p perspecti perspective. >> i'm curious about what you are doing in delaware because you created a program that forces face-to-face meetings which my gosh if we could have that in washington it would be helpful. what about between the home owners and the banks? is that what you're doing? >> exactly right. very simply we pass'd law the governor signed into law about three weeks ago which forces the lender to be at the table. when a party forecloses, before the borrower has to answer, there has to be a mandatory mediation in the court.

and the borrower has to show up and lender has to show up and lender has to have resolution authority to modify the mortgage or reduce the mortgage whether it be a principal reduction or reduction of interest rate. not everybody that goes into the mediation deserves to get a deal. or to get a modified mortgage. >> right. >> they should at least have the benefit of having that discussion. >> that's the problem. >> so what's happening in washington though? because we all know, we talk about all the different things that have to happen before the economy turns around. we have to know. i mean, washington has to know that this economy is not going to turn around until this mortgage crisis stabilizes. until property values start going up, foreclosures start going down, it seems to me washington would have an inventive to fix this. why haven't they? >> they have. 50 ags are working with federal partners on a massive investigation in the last 12 months. what the banks have done is they come to the table in the servicing fraud, servicing issue

and how the banks are going about foreclosing and whether it's the right way. they said look. we know you have us on servicing but we know -- this is the analogy, joe. when someone comes to me and they're involved in a home improvement scam and they say we know you got us on the fact we put fake gutters on the house but you know what? we also did the foundation and work on the roof but we don't want you to look at that. we'll settle you with you on the gutters. >> don't look at the foundation. >> but don't investigate the roof or the foundation. >> yeah. >> that's what's happening and why here in new york they're out of the picture on this investigation right now because we're not willing to not investigate the foundation and the roof. >> right. >> servicing actually origination and securitization. fancy bank words. nobody really understands what they mean. >> you're dealing with a civil side of this and rules of the game. do you think there should be criminal accountability for some of the things that have occurred? >> look, the bottom line is there has been no accountability. as you know, mark, over a thousand people went to jail in the snl crisis.

this is a blip on the screen. >> why hasn't there been criminal accountability? >> well look. there's been a complete lack of accountability. that's what, the great thing about being attorney general. in a little state, but an attorney general's job is to make sure there is accountability and that is why the ags, margaritaa cokely in massachusetts, nevada, a hard hit state on mortgage foreclosure issues, we're following the facts where they take us and some people don't want us to look at the facts of this. >> right. >> look, we can't -- you've had all of these reporters on this show whether gretchen morguenson or michael lewis. we can't rely on them to do the investigation of this crisis. i'm not going to be in public office. it's not worth it to be in public office when you have an investigative capacity to not look at what happened. the american people don't understand what happened. it's not that complicated. i've gone to school over the last 14 months. it is easy to understand i'm

not -- >> you're doing a great job. >> the banks will complain their counter will be people need to be working again. we want to work with people. until then employment numbers go up, if we work out these deals will people have the capacity to pay. the jobs plan the president is talking about how important is that to an overall recovery in the housing market? >> the jobs program is incredibly important. you'll have axelrod on. he'll talk about it. he speaks with the administration. i don't. in terms of putting people back to work. >> just in terms of delaware. is a jobs plan important? you have to get people working. >> incredibly important. but also what is important is to make sure we stop foreclosures at the rate they are. when foreclosures -- look, the leading thing in an economy like this historically has been the housing market. when people -- one-third of the people are under water these are middle class folks showing up at our work shops, people that didn't get an exotic mortgage or no dock loan or some crazy adjustable rate mortgage. these are people just trying to hang on by the skin of their

teeth. and no one is really having a meaningful discussion with them about this. if we stop the foreclosures, we give the chance, housing market a chance to come back, get its breath and that'll begin to lead us out of this from my perspective. i don't say this with false modesty. i'm just an attorney general. >> you're just a country lawyer. >> stop it. now, beau, the preforeclosure face to faces are they having an impact, the desired one? >> they are. philadelphia model based on the philadelphia model and connecticut model we see a low redefault rate. if we modify they're going to reredefault the banks say. very low redefault bank. give people who deserve it a chance. not everybody does. you see the people get to keep their homes and the investor keeps their income stream. >> i like it, beau. >> how old are you? >> i am 42 years old. >> beau, i'm not good with math. >> wlar you doinhat are you doi?

>> if i'm not mistaken your dad was in the senate when he was 13 years younger than you. you better hurry up. >> i'm a late bloomer. >> i'm saying joe biden was a senator at 29. come on. >> i'm a late bloomer. >> he's almost over the hill. >> i am. i'm well over the hill but i love my job. >> i kind of like the job you have. >> he's going to win. >> you're going to get me in trouble here. i love my job. >> by the way, can i just tell you? >> i do. >> we need people like you doing your job. >> stop interrupting. you interrupt all the time. i think you should run for senate and so does harold. i promise you this. when you run for senate and get elected you'll wish you were ag again. >> yeah. exactly. >> seriously. as ag you can make a difference. >> you get something done. >> you get things done. you're part of something every day doing something for your state and all the 420 people that work with me are part of that every day and it's a fulfilling thing. >> ask blumenthal how fulfilled he is right now. >> a black hole. >> chris was getting off the train from washington when i was coming up here last night to be

on the show. >> a good guy. >> he is a great senator. we have two great senators. my son's question is why isn't there an "evening joe" no bologna. 5 years old. only thing allowed to watch in the morning. no cartoons but can watch both of you. he said, dad, is there an "evening joe"? 5 years old. >> i like it. trust me. >> let me talk to him. >> that kid is going to be senator when he's 29. >> he's watching you mostly. >> hey, that's the story of our lives around here. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, beau. >> thanks for having me on. >> very nice to see you. tell your dad we say hi. >> i will. coming up could it have been prevented? nascar drivers speak out following the death of indy driver dan wheland. that story is next. [ female announcer ] when kate collects her pink yoplait lids she's supporting breast cancer programs for her neighbour's tennis instructor's

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welcome back. new concerns now emerging over the size and shape of indy race car tracks particularly the one in las vegas that was the scene of the tragic incident on sunday where driver dan wheldon died at the age of 33. the two-time indy winner died in the 15-car pileup at las vegas motor speedway. now questions about whether indy race cars belong at tracks like the one at las vegas with the banked oval edge. the mile and a half track is

designed for nascar races and not indy car. by contrast the indianapolis motor speedway is a two and a half mile course in a rectangular shape with rounded corners and long, flat straight aways better equipped for cars with open cockpits and wheels. five-time defending nascar champ jimmie johnson says it's time for indy car to stop racing on those oval tracks. >> i know how dangerous those cars are and yesterday was proof to the danger of those vehicles on oefvals. you're just creating situations to get the car off the ground at a high rate of speed and you can't control the car when it's off the ground. so hopefully -- hate that this tragedy took place but hopefully they can learn some things from it and make the cars safe on ovals somehow. >> indy car made no official comment on track changes. the bottom line is they usually race the open wheel indy cars where you have the wheels exposed on road courses so the cars don't get bunched up. they're going 220 miles an hour. >> right.

>> they get in those tight packs and what happened on sunday is you touch a wheel even a little bit and those cars get airborne and it sets off a massive wreck. >> and you don't have the protection that the nascar has. >> no. they're light cars and they fly. >> i get nascar, their ceo and chairman a lot of credit for the measures they put in place and the standards. hopefully indy car will do the same. >> they're scheduled to have an indy car race at that same track next october. i doubt we'll see that race take place. coming up he says grover norquist's tax pledge is paralyzing congress. did we mention he is a republican? congressman frank wolf of virginia joins us next.

ed. we are at a point today that the tsunami of debt in america demands that every piece of the budget be scrutinized.

everything must be on the table. and i believe how the pledge is interpreted and enforced by mr. norquist is a road block to realistically reforming our tax code. have we really reached a point where one person's demand for ideological purity is paralyzing congress to the point that even a discussion of tax reform is viewed as breaking a no tax pledge? >> that is republican congressman from virginia, frank wolf, on the house floor last week. frank is just one of six republicans in congress who have not signed governor norquist's anti-tax pledge. first the important question. how much do you miss harold and me in the house? i mean, it's hard to carry on. >> it is a -- well, harold and i used to walk across to vote. >> you miss harold. >> you miss harold. >> i miss both of you. both of you were nice people and i miss you both. >> very good.

>> all right. we checked that box off. i want to talk about grover in a second. there was an amendment we were talking about off the air that's fascinating. you were -- you got an amendment passed on the floor in the house to investigate radicalization of certain muslim groups in america and that's being blocked in the senate. talk about the amendment and then tell us why, what was considered to be a noncontroversial bill is being blocked now. >> the amendment is bipartisan accepted by dutch rupeesberger and basically looks at why certain people are being radicalized here in the united states. just in the northern virginia area, five pakistanis in jail now in pakistan for radicalization, a fellow who was going to blow up the metro who lived out in loudoun county in my congressional district. anwar awlaki was in a mosque in northern virginia. you've had the graduate of the saudi academy which is in jail

now for planning an attempt to kill the president of the united states. we wonder why are people being radicalized? it was noncontroversial in the house and in the senate and is being blocked by one senator. they don't want to adopt it. >> who is blocking it? >> senator feinstein from california. >> why would she block that? why would anybody be against it? this is just an investigation, right? >> well, just to look and see why and if there are things we can do to stop that, to deal with it. but i'm not completely sure why they're blocking it. >> that's fascinating. >> yeah. >> and a little disturbing. let's talk about the speech you gave regarding grover norquist. you're concerned that grover is shackling the budget process. >> i know our country is in trouble with 9% unemployment and the housing market collapsing. i personally was one who believed that the simpson/bowles commission was the way to go. i think you have to put everything on the table. i think you have to be big about it. and i think on the left you find

movon.org and groups like that that are paralyzing on that side and the pledge, how it's being interpreted. you were elected i think with tom coburn, one of the finest guys in the congress. he's an honest, ethical, decent guy. what he was trying to do by closing the tax loop hole with regard to the ethanol, that was viewed as a taxing increase. we have well -- >> that is ridiculous. >> we have well over $100 billion of tax. they're really tax earmarks and as you know i think you served on ways and means they're in perpetuity not just from one year or two years and to say that we can't close the loop hoel for ethanol or we can't make ge pay its taxes or we can't close the loop holes for all of these industries that are out there, the special interest lobbies in washington. >> right. >> to say that's a tax increase, so i believe you are going to have to reform the entitlements. you got to do that as difficult as it may be they all came before your committee. you have to do it and then you also have to close these tax loop holes and do pretty much --

>> you have to do it on both sides. no doubt about it. and harold right now you have a republican party where you have the presidential candidates who are asked if they'd make a 10-1 tradeoff, cuts versus revenue increases, and not a single person raised their hand. that's not the real world. you've got a 4-1 deal. republicans should take it. >> mind boggling. i don't understand. you give them a 1% pass because they had a republican primary but it is very indicative and telling of where people are. i applaud the chairman wolf for having the courage to stand up on the house floor and make the point you're making about grover. how do you convince more of your colleagues, what's the path of doing it? is there a political path? is there a candidate? is there a movement, an effort to try to bring more of them to your position? you don't want to raise taxes but you got to be willing to put it all on the table and get it done and democrats have to do it on entitlements. >> i don't want to raise taxes. i want to lower taxes. a simpson/bowles commission

lowered tax rates and made fairly dramatic changes both corporation and individual. when many members signed the pledge, i don't know if you signed it or not, joe, that was really not meant you couldn't close a loop hole. >> right. >> it just meant you were for lower taxes. but to say if we made ge pay their fair share that that's a tax increase, just doesn't make any sense. >> you know, i signed the pledge. i never voted for a tax increase in my years there. but you look at the taxes, some of you look at the fact that like you said ge is not paying taxes. largest corporation on the planet. you have people making millions and billions paying a lower effective tax rate than their secretaries. there is something fundamentally wrong and unjust with our tax system and even as a small government conservative you should want -- i would say especially as a small government conservative you should want those loop holes closed. >> and what the gang of six was doing, too, with saxby chambliss -- >> right. >> mike acrepo a very

conservative republican and tom coburn they wanted to really lower taxes but broaden the tax base, fix the entitlements but also close some of the tax loop holes. >> what happens with the super committee? did we get a deal the 23rd? was there a vote or do we have mandatory cuts after the 23rd? >> i don't know. there is a group of us who signed the letter the other day asking him to go big to the $4 trillion level. some people feel if you only do the 1.2 or 1.5 moody's could very well downgrade us. i don't know what they're going to do. i'm hopeful but i don't know. >> for people who don't live or work in washington they hear this tax pledge and want to know why, you can speak to this, too, why a united states congressman or woman would sign a pledge to a guy who is not in the government that handcuffs them to certain policy. that just doesn't make sense to people who watch. shouldn't you serve the best interests of your voters and not that of grover norquist? >> well of course. edmund burke said, who is an original conservative founder frankly of the conservatives and

republican party said you owe your constituents your best judgment. but in fairness to the members who sign it, one, they did not know, many of >> i'm opposed to gambling. some people are for it. my concern is that the pledge has been used. he was connected to jack abernoff. when people signed the pledge they didn't really know that it goes to that point. so i don't fault anybody signing the pledge. it means they want lower taxes. but what we're trying to do is bring the tax rates down by eliminating the earmark. most members would agree with that. >> congressman frank wolf, you make a lot of sense.

>> thank you, frank. >> your new book is "prisoner of conscious" thank you very much for being on the show this morning. up next, from mark twain to george carlin. arthur and comedian joe borowitz joins us next. ♪ ♪ [ multiple sounds making melodic tune ]

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welcome back to "morning

joe". joining us is comedian borowitz. good morning. >> good morning. >> i want to point out that your 20 month on is on board. >> earlier i was talking to my daughter about it and i said it is 999. an economic plan a 207 month old can repeat, you're in. i think the fact that she's going to say it to other 20-month-olds, that demographic will be locked down. >> let's go through this list. you start with the obvious, mark twain. >> the mark twain list. >> that's right. well, mark twain he holds up so well. he's so modern. he was right around the turn of

the 20th century. 1900s. he could tweet now. he said things like suppose you're an idiot and suppose you're in congress but i repeat myself. no offense, joe. >> pretty dead on. >> that's mark twain, not me. >> is he the funniest writer of all time? >> i don't know if he's the funniest but he's sort of the one indispensable. you can't do a collection, you would have to have mark twain. i feel like mark twain, the onion, these guys hit home runs so much that they are their own. >> talk about the onion. that's sort of the other end of the spectrum. they just crank it out everyday. if you follow them on twitter it is not not one that is not funny. how do they do that. >> i break out laughing. what's funny is you bring up

mark twain and the onion. it is a very american thing to make fun of the news because the news is pump a plum target. mark twain when he was just starting out got a job working at a newspaper and he actually set the type at a real newspaper making fake headlines. so it is nothing new but "the onion" one that does it more than anything. >> george carlin. >> yes. he's one. george carlin is funny in a specific way. i think george carlin is one of those people whose jokes your grandfather will think is hilarious. he is a crowd pleaser. >> and our friend nora efron is on the list. >> i have three of the 50 funniest who are still alive. i have jenny allen, and calvin.

twain could not make it. rumors of his death are actually for real. i have been talking about a lot of men. but a lot of women. nora efron, ivan. next time i tell you somebody from texas should not be president, please will you listen. >> dorothy parker. >> parker is in there. >> i can't believe i didn't know this, but the original vacation movie, chevy case movie was based on a john hughes short story. >> he was a struggling writer. he submitted this story to national lampoon called vacation 57. this is the first time it's been available for public consumption. it is a brilliant funny short story. a lot of funny stories in here.

>> can you come back. >> i would love to come back. >> you're a new york guy. >> that's right. we're going to talk more about 999. >> she'll explain it to us. >> we also have to plug borowitz.com. andy borowitz. thanks. coffee doesn't have vitamins... unless you want it to. new splenda® essentials™ no calorie sweetener with b vitamins, the first and only one to help support a healthy metabolism. three smart new ways to sweeten. same great taste.

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[ giggles ] appeared on meet the press and i watched. he is refreshingly honest, mr. cain. >> mr. cain, welcome.

your big idea is the 999 plan. >> that was a jek. >> that's not a serious plan. >> you got a big laugh. >> that's a joke. >> i showed the polls. are you the front runner now? >> that's a joke. >> that's a joke. mr. cain, thank you very much. >> welcome back to "morning joe". 8:00 on the east coast. back on with the set. >> cain actually did call his tax plan a joke a year ago. >> what? >> you know? >> i don't. >> herman cain said the sales tax, he said that was a joke. that was the worst idea. >> he's evolved. >> 11 months ago it was the worst idea. >> worse than rick perry's book.

>> yeah. where he said social security was a scam. >> holy cow. this is a great field. >> he's evolving. >> yes. >> it's a diverse field. >> it is. richard, we were talking yesterday. yesterday was the first time the united states of america actuallyinvaded a country and announced it in a press release. i find it fascinating that we now are invading countries with such speed that we don't even have time to have a press conference. >> declarations of war are so yesterday. this is a sign of things to come where if you're in a constant war fight and you basically think terrorism is a constant challenge then you will be sending off drones or special

forces here and every where. >> next week at tweet, @barack obama. >> two, two, number two. >> does john mccain have a point though. thissed a menstruation >> should they consult congress before they send troops? >> you should always consult congress so you have a safety net when things don't go well. >> hey, did the jets win big last night? >> they did. they won big. >> wow. against the dolphins. >> were you at the cure event. >> it was nice. >> yeah. until mayor bloomberg came.

>> he was nice to me. >> he spit in my face. >> it was a lovely event. >> it was wonderful. the story is still moving. susan's dedication to this cause. and david's going to be on today because his wife was elbowing him yesterday because he was taking up all of her time. >> no. he was very difference reasonab differential. he was talking about the cause. >> all bets are off today. yesterday he was being deferential to his wife. can we get to the news now? >> i definitely want to.

we me bin with another republican poll that has herman cain surging ahead. he's in second place with 25% support. a 19 point jump from a month ago. mitt romney remains in first place at 26% and rick perry's fall continues as he drops down to 13%. this continues your concept on what's going on with these candidates. the extra attention cain has taken has led to a more critical plan. 9% individual flat tax and 9% national sales tax. >> a national sales tax. wow. that's quite an idea. >> that is. >> sort of european but it's quite an idea. >> now some conservative blogs have pointed out that the biggest opponent to the 9-9-9 plan would be -- >> john huntsman. >> no. it is another candidate.

>> it's herman cain himself. hideous. >> we're not the idiots. >> so what has herman cain said about this plan that's sweeping the nation that my kids are talking about. >> it is the focus of dinner plans across america. >> not my dinner. >> he said this about 9-9-9. >> the sale tax. >> don't be that stupid. that's pretty good. the worst idea is a proposed national sales tax. >> did he say his plan was the worst idea? >> yes. which is a disguised vat tax ( value added tax ) on top of everything else we pay. a national sales tax on top of all the -- let me just clarify. it gives me out of control bureaucrats and politicians in denial.

one more tool to lie, deceive, manipulate and destroy this country. he's talking about one part of it. >> no. but that's exactly what your good friend said when he was here the other day. he said it's not sticking three needles in your arm. they can draw blood from three separate needles. so if you have these three sources of tax revenue, trust me. trust me. trust mark, trust us all, if you give congress a national sales tax, 9 is going to 11 is going to be 15 is going to be 20. and, by the way, he's not getting rid of the income tax. he's not getting rid of the business tax. so yeah, he opposed his own plan 11 months ago. >> the therd phase you would get rid of the income tax and you'd go to just a -- >> when does that happen? what year. >> phased in. >> oh. >> look.

herman cain is teflon so far. >> he really is. >> i'm not sure this will hurt him. >> joe can start with today herman cain versus 11 month ago herman cain. >> the one thing we don't have enough of in this country is consumer demand. why in the world would you want to discourage something that encourages consumer demand. >> right. he was kind enough to point out that he would only tax new items. so if poor people getter that pharmaceuticals or their groceries in a used like army navy surplus store -- >> environmental policy. >> if they get their food used somewhere, that would be a violation. >> yeah. that's a problem. used food. >> can i ask you something? what if it is like what i do. we go 57th, have some smokes at

the holiday inn but when i go there is a guy that smells like three-day old sushi. is that used? >> we call that sweet land of liberty sushi. cain also remains under fire for these comments he made over the weekend. >> is this where he said he wanted to electrocute illegal immigrants. >> well he's on his book tour and speaking about how to stop illegal immigration. >> part of it would have a real fence, 20 feet high with barbed wire. electrify them with a sign on the other side that says it can kill you. it'll be in english and spanish.

>> don't even say it. don't. don't. no. >> no? what? i'm not cracking a joke. i'm laughing at the man. >> i'm concerned. i'm really scared. >> you shouldn't be concerned. it's not even your party. by the way, he hasn't backed down from that. this is exhibit 800 over the past year of why my republican party has lost their way in such a serious, serious way. we laugh about it, but it is actually -- >> because we're not crying. >> the romney people love it. let him ride in front and -- >> romney will be the last man standing. >> what's wrong.

what's wrong with a political party that michelle bachmann takes the lead and her man cain takes the lead and we can go through all the other people that have taken the lead. what is wrong with a group of people in a political party that reward this type of behavior that has nothing to do with ideology? you see, that's the thing. it has nothing to do with idealology. that's the problem. you get all these people out there that say these hateful kmens and everybody just assumes they are conservative. yeah. he's a fighter. i'm mad, too. electrocute illegal immigrants. has nothing to do with herman cain actually being a small government conservative or rick perry bragging about being a small government conservative. nothing to do with that. it's all sort of sound and

furry. signifying nothing. >> slogans as my dad said yesterday. >> and richard haas. this is not the republican party that i grew up with and that you served under. i mean, george w. bush is flinching in dallas, texas not believing what he's seeing on tv. it's not just old man bush that looks at this in shock. the entire establishment is shocked by this. >> if you compare this to the e nixon, walker, bush, it is two ultimate endzones. this is popularism. this is kind of intense activism. in the long run this is not going to be. >> what if a year ago barber, daniels, bush, christie had all decided to run? >> oh, my god.

>> the question is would it be a different republican party. >> the question is what is it about this audition process? and i asked this in my political piece today. what is it about this political process that encourages these people. he's not going to come up with a 9-9-9 plan. he is a main stream conservative. you can talk about the governor, mitch daniels from indiana. i have real issues with what he did hen he ran bush's budget office, but he is a main stream republican. he's a solid guy and he understands policy. i'm sorry. i don't mean to insult anybody here, but it's very obvious watching her man cain or

michelle bachmann -- not bachmann quite as much but sarah palin and others that have gone to the top of the race, they don't even understand basic policies, basic kmeconomic. you watch them in the debate and you can figure that out. but they're in first place. >> tim polanti said that running for president now is too much like a reality show. we're getting less serious. >> there is a serious guy. >> yeah. >> runs a blue state. what is he called, a wal-mart republican? he doesn't break through. you can say this also with a democratic party. remember four years ago you saw joe biden and hillary clinton win every debate. it was not a close call. good luck going back to the debate. either biden died or hillary didn't win and have the answers to the questions. you have barack obama who was

stumbling around. i don't mean to insult anybody was joe biden has been in since he was 29. dodd has lived in the senate. they understand issues. hillary clinton has been through it time and time again, and yet the democratic party picked barack obama because it feels good. look what it brought them. >> the last three, four debates mitt romney clearly won. he was the guy who looked like he knew what he was talking about. you wonder if we all come out and say mitt romney is the nominee. when does that move happen? i went out yesterday. january 3rd will be the caucuses. when does cain fall and when does romney start his rise? >> i think we're surrounded by a more qualified bunch so the game would be raised. right now it is romney talking to a -- well. i gotta be careful what i say.

>> i think rick perry may have another surge in him. >> no. >> i think he may go up with the 30 second commercials. i think he may get his footing and i think yet he may be mitt romney's real challenge. >> it almost has to happen. >> it's not really fair for me to put perry, as much as i have attacked rick perry for a lot of different reasons, it is not fair to put him in cain's category at all because rick perry ran one of the biggest states far decade. his jobs record is great. i'm in the defending but i am separating out that rick perry is no herman cain. rick perry is no michelle bachmann. rick perry is no palin. most people would say he ran a big state pretty well. >> there were going to be two republican primaries. at the end of the day rick perry is the most likely competitor to

take on romney. >> yeah. rick perry ran a state. of the list that you talk about. donald trump ran a company. >> donald tufrump build a $7 billion company. >> a picture, members of the occupy wall street spread their-month-old fight against corporate greed throughout the country. this is president obama to republicans saying their alternative job pros pole would benefit the very people protesters are rallying against. >> it turns out that the republicans have a plan, too. i want to be fair. they call -- they put forth this plan last week and called it "the real american jobs act" turns out the republican plan boils down to a few basic ideas. they want to gut regulations. they want to let wall street do whatever it wants.

they want to drill more. and they want top health care reform. that's their jobs plan. >> new data suggest most americans -- >> i'm sorry. i dope talk a lot here -- >> you said you weren't going to say it. >> i have gone after republicans. i also said obama was clearly not as qualified as hillary clinton or joe biden to be president. but how can this president say that all those republicans, they are of wall street. he brought in wall street to run his economic team. he brought in larry summers. he brought in people that were there at the fire. he brought in all the cows that kicked over the lanterns that burned the city down. >> and he got a lot of campai campaigns. >> yeah. more than any candidate.

>> but he also passed the tough regulation of wall street. >> it is not tough legislation. >> but his mind set is more than people in wall street would like. i think he made a mistake surrounding himself with people with such an orientation. >> really? >> it's very safe to say he certainly is no fdr. he certainly is no teddy rosevelt. we need a trust buster is what we need. >> too big to fail is firmly in place an he took tons and tons the of mown during the campaign so it seems a little misplaced. coming up, senior strategist for the president's re-election campaign david axelrod joins us on set. also talking about her sk d

coddled generation. but first, here is the often mocked bill karins. >> reporter: your rain is gone but now your cool temperatures are arriving. that's where we're going to be tracking it in the southeast over the next couple days. enjoy today while you can. boston, new york, to d.c., one more gorgeous fall day for you. the rain low pressure continue to move northwards during the day today. if you're traveling to atlanta later this afternoon, you could deal with some airport delays. still very warm on the west coast from l.a. all the way down to san diego and phoenix. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪

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♪ imagine there's no pizza. i couldn't if i tried. >> i don't even understand why they're rolling that now. >> that's john lennon. >> no. i want to talk to david. joining us now -- >> i love pizza. >> you're a chicago go. >> does it have the cheese injected into it. >> you know, i grew up here and when i come back to new york i always have a slice and a coke because that's what i grew up eating. >> where did you go.

>> yesterday i was at john's. >> that's great. >> you know how you know. when you turn the pizza and the oil drips off. >> then you're home. >> exactly. >> okay. president obama's re-election campaign if he survives, david axelrod. >> he goes where trump eats his pizza. >> and i don't eat it with a fork. let's talk about the most important thing here. the secure event last night. how did it go. >> it was wonderful. you guys were great to be there and for all you have done. we raised something like $700,000 there. >> that's wonderful. >> that's for research and some day one of those grants is going to make the difference in unlocking the key. >> no doubt about it. >> you let him sit next to your wife. >> donny doyca.

>> he stayed the whole night, contributed more. the great thing about these dinners is we do get to expose the people to the impact on families. it is all good. >> it has a devastating impact on families. we saw it last night in the stories that you all threw out at people. >> amazing. >> about how it doesn't just affect the person. it affects the families. you see this with autism. autism actually breaks up families when it is extreme. >> i think it does one or the other. but i often think about my boys. i have two younger sons, michael and ethan who really had to sacrifice so much because of their sister's problems, and they're always torn between being remorseful about her pain and being resentful about what they lost. it's pretty common, i think, among children.

it is always good to be mindful of the rest of the family as well. >> it challenges every aspect in every way. >> we have a lot to get through here. let's start with what we've been talking about. herman cain, top of the republican field. what is the obama team's take on this new front runner? >> my take is two things. one is don't get a take on any front runner on republican side because they are likely to change tomorrow. we've seen so many of them along the way here. i also, you know, if i were sitting over there in the romney camp i would be wondering why people aren't buying the dog food. this is in the a reference to strapping the dog on -- >> you just did it. >> gail collins take me away. >> well done. >> why aren't they? >> yeah. >> i think there is some

question about what his core convictions are. i think also coming -- he says i represent business, but he represents real think wall street side of business in ways that you strip down companies, out source jobs, in ways that i think reflect people's concerns about the economy. so there are a lot of -- but whatever. if i were sitting over there i'd say why am i always at 23, 25%. >> i would be very concerned. we said this before. if i were sitting at 23, 24, 25% i would be very concerned. i would also be concerned looking at a lot of swing states. you look at the swing states. the president's approval rating is 41. he's been low in pennsylvania, ohio. just like the governor's. but that's your problem. it is usual think president that's hired or fired. how do you turn things around in a year? >> i would say a couple things

about that, joe. those swing states are all going to be competitive. we know that. i looked at 15 polls in 15 swing states just the other day. we were either tied or ahead in 13 or 14. new hampshire actually was an outliar and we have work to do. >> florida? >> i think florida right now. we're tied with romney. >> what about ohio? >> about the same. >> there's going to be a tight race. >> there is no question. for two reasons. with all the wind at our back the last time, 47% of the american people voted for someone else. secondly, this has been a tough three years for the country. people are -- not just three years. over a long period of time we've seen this hollowing out of the middle class. the fundamental economic challenge of our time and we have the short term and very serious problem with jobs.

so, yes, these things are going to be very much front and center in the debate. but one thing i differ with you on, it is not just going to be about the president. it's going to be about two candidates, their veisions, how they rebuilt that economy so that the middle class is growing and not shrinking. that's the president's focus. >> the question is how to make this about the president again because a lot of people feel the vote will be neg other than obama. there's been questioning of his leadership when it comes to the unemployment, when it comes to the jobs bill, can't get it through. when it comes to taxes on millionaires. should he be out there campaigning as some are criticizing him for or be back in washington governing. >> one thing is clear, let's make clear why he can't or hasn't in some instances. you have to look at the republicans in the congress.

mitch mcconnel said in an interview in the new york times in 2010, we maded a decision from the beginning we're not going to give him any support on any major issue. later said my goal for the next two years is to defeat the president. >> and they are behaving that way. >> why wouldn't he just call in mitch mcconel everyday and meet with him. >> this suspect a question of meeting. he's had plenty of meetings with mitch mcconel. we spent a lot of time with him before the debt ceiling. he's out there because the only people that are going to move these republicans are the american people. and what the president is doing is enlisting their support in this effort. >> while he's been out there, david he co-oped what's on the front page which is the occupy wall street group saying wall street is the problem here despite the fact that you all

raised a ton of money from wall street. is that a wise thing for the president to do, to get in bed with the occupy wall street movement. >> first of all, i don't know that he's getting in bed with anyone. this sentiment of frustration about what happened to our economy is not just limited to the kids and the people on the street. you hear these conversations around water coolers, kitchen tables all over the country. speaking about the things that i spoke about before, wages have been flat over a long period of time. people dealt with it by getting further into debt. credit cards, their home. that all collapsed in 2008. and wall street was at the center of that. and the president's been very clear on that. ,he also has been clear that we need a strong functioning financial system. have to have that to have our country grow. but that system has to work under a set of rules or we'll get into the same kind of problem we got before where consumers were exploited, where deals were done in secret that

almost took our entire economy and actually did take our economy down. the same folks who i did that are resisting rules for wall street. >> the poll we just had up, david, shows that americans, these are new numbers, blame washington at a rate of 65%. only 30% blame wall street. doesn't the president accept some of the blame for what's happened to the economy over the last several years? isn't washington the problem? >> i think there is a problem in washington in that we haven't been able to work together. leek right now we need the jobs act passed. it is also the fact that there is a very pernicious influence on wall street being one of those special interest. you see it in the resistance to common sense rules to prevent the kind of problems that we had before. you see right now republicans

trying to unravel the financial reforms, unravel the consumer bureau to protect people. unravel health care. that does create great cynicism among people. i absolutely understand that. >> so, how does he break that as the leader of this country? >> well, he breaks it by pushing for common sense solutions like the jobs act, like long term plans to educate people to create high end jobs that will support middle class families, by investing in infrastructure so we can be competitive in the future. we have to think long. not just short but long which is something that hasn't been the strong suit of washington. joe, i was sitting in the green room yesterday with susan. >> he got a little frustrated. >> enjoying my starbucks. >> did i make you spit it out. >> what did i tell you, dave. >> three minutes of carpet bombing. >> it was carpet bombing.

>> comparing him to herman cain, michelle bachmann. >> i didn't. >> yes. you said we have an inexperienced president and we saw what happened. so let's tack about what happened. this man walked into -- >> whoa. >> no. let me finish. >> you were concerned yourself that the president may not be prepared to be president of the united states. >> i never said that. i said that i was concerned about how he would -- a process in which he was getting punched and beaten. >> hammered. i'm sorry. >> i had a high degree of his competencies. we work sbd the worst economy and the biggest financial crisis since the great depression, two wars. the stock market shortly after he got there was at 6,500%. we were losing 750,000 jobs a day. the core before he became president was the worst in terms of the economy since 1930. >> right. >> that's the situation.

>> as he made it better? >> he took steps to -- well, let's take them one at a time. he went and intervened, saved the financial system from collapsing. h is controversial with some people but it was absolutely necessary. intervened, saved the auto industry from collapsing. there are many people workinged to who wouldn't have been had he not done that. it wasn't popular. it was the right thing to do. so he took a series of steps so we've had 19 months of job growth. not nearly enough and we still have to address the bigger problem of wages and how we get housing back on track. >> let's talk about -- that is key to everything. >> right. >> how we build an economy in which the middle class is growing and in the shrinking. then let's tack about foreign policy because that's a big part of experience. he said he was going to end the war in iraq in a few months.

we will have all our troops home from iran. he said he was going to up the anteand go after al qaeda in a serious way. osama bf ssama bin laden is gon. so when you say he wasn't prepared, maybe you should go ask osama bin laden if he thought he was. >> that's actually a good line. i don't think he was prepared, but i -- >> i saw him make a lot of decisions that were very courageous, joe. i didn't know what was going to happen. >> you talking about osama bin laden. >> yes. not only would a lot of lives had been lost if it went bad. he did it because he thought it was the right thing to do. >> no doubt about it. >> so when i hear you say that, it spoils my starbucks. >> i'm very sorry about that.

i will say for the record i gave you three minutes of carpet bombing back. >> that is very chivalrous. >> i think deficit, his lack of experience in washington showed the most indealing, not only with republicans but with the legislative brafrnch. you guys owned washington for two years, the democrats did. do you think he's learned how to work at least inside his own party in washington better. >> i heard you say that as well. you said he had a majority of democrats in his first two years. you can't have it both ways. he was attacked for doing too much. >> i said he did the wrong thing. >> you may disagree with what he did but he certainly got things done. obviously it's changed a bit

since you have this new republican congress here that you speak often who basically think cooperation is a dirty word, that cooperating with the president is an impardonable sen. >> i criticize congress for taking that attitude. >> i sent you an e-mail on this. i enjoyed your session with president clinton who was brilliant as usual. >> as usual. >> you were getting through reminiscences of time. you were getting all warm and fuzzy about how you guys could work together. >> yeah. >> i was kind of lulled into that. then my head snapped back in. i thought didn't he vote to impeach that guy. >> it was the 90s s. >> that was the funniest thing. >> i will tell you, the take away from that is even with the contentious nature of that relationship, we got a held of a lot of things done in the 90s. >> there was a tremendous recoil

from the american people and newt decided fd we're going to be re-elected we better cooperate. this is in the, the thrall. >> we had the president saying his two greatest achievement were balancing the budget. >> the president thought he had a deal with boehner to do something large. >> they're screaming in my ear, david. come back. i love the carpet bombing. >> all right. >> wow. that was something. >> we'll be right back.

welcome back to "morning jo joe". she's going to give us an update on what's happened on the nrk stop exchange. >> that's you. i read the book from cover to cover. that's in the me. >> i am the problem. >> i'm surprised to be back today after everything that happened yesterday. >> talk about a humorless america. online. did you see this. so we make a joke and somebody does a headline joe is a

problem. >> i might have said that. >> in your defense, i'm always a problem. if that's your default position, you're going to be right 595% o the time. >> i went to catholic school. i got a peng slip for insighting a riot. shall we talk about wall street. goldman-sachs, losing 84% a share. investment banking way down about 30%. that's a rough side. no one's buying the little rubber shoes. that company lost about a therd of its value. europe is lower. we have a lot of things waeging in the market today to battle back. >> that's unbelievable. >> thank you, melissa. >> more bad news. >> i know. >> says as goes the crocs is

good for -- how is it. >> melissa, thank you for coming. insult me tomorrow, please. hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices? sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business.

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but he's in the a christian. mormonism has always been considered a colt by christianity. >> if y'all want to vote for a cult leader. that is the sweetest most good natured thing to say on an entire religion i have ever seen in my life. bless his heart. yeah, he deserves to be in held, but certainly on a different floor than hitler. coffee doesn't have vitamins... unless you want it to.

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big surprise. joe and david axelrod talked for a long time. >> you went a little long today. >> you mean i got a question in? >> you need to bring that in for a landing. tomorrow we're going to have the author we talked about. "coming of age in a post-hope america" and will explain why she says the youth today are actually more equipped to handle

the channels of the recession. >> i don't understand. it is a post-hope america. >> yes. >> wasn't that just -- that was so 2008, hope an change. >> it's in the here anymore. >> are we beyond that. >> we'll be right back. >> more carpet bombing. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. your core competency is...competency. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above,

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yesterday doesn't win. big doesn't win. titles corner offices don't win. what wins? original wins. fresh wins. smart wins. the world's most dynamic companies know what wins in business today. maybe that's why so many choose to work with us. we're grant thornton. audit. tax. advisory. welcome back to "morning joe." willie, what did you learn today? >> i think we should have david