cell phone video has been released from libya as proof of death. nbc news has not yet confirmed that these images are of gadhafi. if true, that brings 42 years of gadhafi rule to an end. his body reported being kept in one of the mosques in misrata. hi, everybody. it's good to have you with me. i'm thomas roberts. we have breaking news developing all morning from libya, where rebels claim they have killed moammar gadhafi. those reports unconfirmed by u.s. officials. these all coming from rebels. ap obtained this cell phone video from a rebel commander saying this shows gadhafi's body on the ground. we have not been able to independently confirm that. this picture taken a rebel commander's cell phone. neither u.s. officials have been able to verify this is indeed gadhafi. nonetheless, from the capital of

tripoli to strongholds across the country, celebrations have broken out across libya. moments ago, secretary of state hillary clinton spoke about what this means from kabul. >> they made very clear they recognize they have a lot of work ahead of them. they have to try to unify the country, unify the militias under a unitary command. they have to disarm a lot of people who have acquired the thousands of weapons that gadhafi had stockpiled and that they worried that, if ga daf g were still at large, he would be waging guerrilla war against them. he would be recruiting mercenaries, paying with the gold that they believe he had absconded with. so if he is removed from the picture i think there's a big sigh of relief.

the job is still daunting, but they won't be quite as worried that they have to be constantly looking over their shoulder at him. there still may be remnants of gadhafi loyalists, and they'll have to contend with them. i think we're moving him as kind of the organizing figure of a resistance is a very positive step, if indeed it's true. >> moammar gadhafi was a fixture in the middle east for four decades. he was villainized by world leaders, backed by billions in oil wealth, gadhafi was a force to be reckoned with. what will the middle east look like after gadhafi if he is indeed dead? let's talk about that with our panel. richard engel is the nbc news chief foreign correspondent. and an assistant secretary of state under pk. richard, i want to start with you. you have new information on details about gadhafi's alleged death. >> the libyan officials and

rebel commanders are saying with a unified voice that gadhafi is, in fact, dead. they have made an announcement speaking from the prime minister, in fact, in libya that moammar gadhafi is dead. how he died remains a 34is tri. one rebel commander involved in the operation has told nbc news the following sequence of events. he said that two rebel units this morning, one the tiger unit, the other called the al tharouk unit, were traveling through the southwest portion of the city of sirte. they came across a factory. it is a factory that makes animal feed. it is part of an industrial area in the southwest portion of sirte. they saw a group of vehicles parked in a building adjacent to this animal feed factory. they thought it was suspicious to have such a large number of vehicles in this industrial

area. the rebel units, these two units, decided to approach. as soon as they approached, they were engaged in gunfire from those gadhafi loyalists, they turned out to be gadhafi loyalists. a gun fight between the rebels and the gadhafi loyalists in this industrial park right next to a feed factory lasted for about 30 to 45 minutes, and apparently gadhafi was injured in that gun fight. when the rebels arrived they found him still alive but injured. and then he was apparently executed on the scene. >> richard, for the libyan people, what is the difference between him being found dead or alive? what's the significance? especially if he is confirmed to be dead. >> he wasn't going to make it out of this alive either way. if he was captured, he would have been put on trial. i think it was a foregone conclusion that he would have been found guilty and hanged. that he was killed on the spot by rebels who had just been in a gun fight is hardly surprising. he promised that he would go

down in a fight, and it seems like that's what happened. >> what does this mean for the gadhafi loyalists that remain? >> well, gadhafi's son, saif, is apparently still at large. his intelligence chief, abdullah senusi, apparently still at large. they will clearly want to fight for their own survival and would presumably have some cash, but this is not a big loyalist movement. >> want to get your reaction to this, especially when it comes to the u.s. perspective because the u.s. has not confirmed anything. how important is it for libyan officials to confirm this and not for the u.s. to jump ahead looking like it's our own victory. >> i think it's extremely important because, let's face it, if the account that richard provided -- and it sounds very, very logical to me that he would have gone down in this way -- proves true in the end and all the details provided that richard got, i think it will be the same scenario as saddam hussein, except the difference

is it will have been libyan officials, libyan soldiers, libyan people that will have killed the dictator that oppressed them rather than the united states coming from thousands of miles away and all that happened in iraq. i think that image is exactly why libya is so important because it was a home grown rebellion, people on the ground prepared to fight a dictator for their freedom, put together a rebel force. and all the west did was essentially become the air force for that rebellion rather than doing the deed itself as the west did in iraq. >> secretary of state hillary clinton just in tripoli on tuesday. coincidence? you think we knew that the obama administration and high level u.s. military officials that, as richard pointed out, that they were on the trail and able to track down moammar gadhafi and do so within days of her visit

to tripoli. >> i think that's a coincidence. really the secretary of state would be the last person who would be involved in a kind of an operation of that kind, maybe if it was a cia director, you might imagine that. i think it's a coincidence. but she was there for an important purpose, and that's the purpose that we're going to see today going forward, which is to have the government of libya, such as it is, realize that the eyes of the world are now upon it. and everything that's happened up to now has been a trial run for what happens after gadhafi is really gone and in charge of their territory. yes, there may be fugitives running around and the eyes of the world now on this transitional government. how are they going to behave? are they going to be magnanimous in victory, develop systems for

reconciliation, or is it going to be chaos? so far the signs are good. but they've been practicing up to now. the eyes of the world are upon him. that's why they're careful about revealing whether he died or not. they don't want to make a mistake because this really is the moment the world will be holding them to account for the first time really. >> we're going to the white house in just a moment. richard, you want to jump in real quick. >> just other details. in that industrial park where gadhafi was apparently captured still alive and executed, there were many large water drainage pipes, and he was apparently hiding in this drainage ditch surrounded by big cement water tubes. >> let's go to nbc's kristen welker standing by live at the white house to update us about what we can expect to hear from president obama. kristen, will we hear anything shortly about a confirmation of the death of moammar gadhafi? >> reporter: hi there, thomas. white house officials tell me they are working hard to figure out whether these reports are true or false. out of an abundance of caution, there is not going to be a

statement out of the white house until they can actually confirm the reports. here's what they're looking for. they would either like confirmation through a photo or from a firsthand account from a u.s. asset who is there on the scene. so why the abundance of caution? if you remember this summer when tripoli fell, there were a number of reports that gadhafi's sons had been captured, reports that turned out later to be false. so president obama, the white house will not be commenting on this until they can confirm it 100%. if you go back to august during all of the unrest in tripoli, you'll remember that president obama did come out and say that, from that moment moving forward, that the u.s. government recognized the tnc, the transitional national council, as the legitimate government there in libya. so if this is the case, if gadhafi has been killed, this would be significant for a number of reasons in part because it would allow the tnc to actually begin to make that transition as the ruling party. it would also be significant for

president obama. this would likely be seen as another foreign policy success. of course, as you know, osama bin laden was killed. anwar all awlaki. this would be another one of those successes. thomas? >> kristen welker at the white house for us. gentlemen, as you're listening to kristen report, you're also talking amongst yourselves. >> sorry. >> that's okay. you guys are miked. so you guys know that. you know that everybody can kind of hear you. but, jamie, you're saying that this is strictly protocol that they're going along with. they're going to scramble to get somebody to confirm this most likely and move forward in the near future. maybe late this morning, early afternoon. >> i think, if there hadn't been so many false reports from libya about particularly the issue of the sons and gadhafi over the last four months, just what they would have seen on tv in another circumstance would have been enough for people to be satisfied that it really happened. but given that the boy has cried wolf so many times from that part of the world, i think they

are trying to be sure that it isn't some grand mistake. how will they do that? it's kind of hard to figure out what they'll be able to do that one doesn't know already. we were talking, richard and i, about having a state department or a cia official in the region get a look at the body and somehow be able to satisfy him or herself that that's true and get that information back up the chain. but i guess what i'm saying is because there are false reports, they're being more cautious than they would have been otherwise because i think it's pretty clear to me, at least, that this is the real thing. >> burials happen very quickly in the middle east. usually within the same day. sometimes people are killed at night, they tend not to bury people at night. they'll wait till the next morning. so you could have a situation where this burial happens and a body is in the ground before someone actually comes out and says, yes, it was him. >> all right, gentlemen. stand by. we have nbc's adrienne mong on the phone from gadhafi's

hometown of sirte in libya. what's the latest there, adrienne? >> reporter: good morning. we're outside sirte, making our way back to misrata, the rebel stronghold, rebel dominated city. still no complete confirmation apart from the prime minister's announcement that they have caught and killed gadhafi. we've been talking to a number of militia men who have been making their way also from sirte to misrata, many of whom seem to have souvenirs already. there's a group right now just standing near us who claim to have a ring and a hat that belong to gadhafi. earlier, we saw a vehicle that reportedly carried the body of the united states who was wup of gadhafi's senior commanders. and there was also an ambulance that drove by and reportedly had the body of moammar gadhafi's son. so there is definitely a lot of evidence here on the ground to support the announcement, of

course. and a sense of overwhelming jubilation. that is one thing we've been able to report with certainty is this feeling that they've now arrived at a moment of history, and they can finally open up the next chapter. >> nbc's adrienne mong reporting as she travels from sirte to the rebel stronghold of misrata. thank you so much. thanks to the gentlemen on the panel. we're going to keep you around for a little while, if you don't mind. and just once again, to show you the video that we have coming in to us here at msnbc, the first images, you can see them for yourself. rebel leaders claiming that is the body of moammar gadhafi still waiting on u.s. confirmation. we're going to have much more right here on msnbc. i'm robert shapiro. over a million people have discovered how easy it is to use legalzoom for important legal documents. so start your business, protect your family, launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. to bring you a low-priced medicare prescription drug plan.

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welcome back, everybody. breaking news we continue to follow on msnbc. this graphic cell phone picture demonstrates that anti-gadhafi forces claim prove that moammar gadhafi is dead. we're still waiting for official reaction from the white house. still a lot of confusion on the ground about how it happened. right now there are cheers and celebratory gunfire out of libya at this hour following report rts of gadhafi's death. a rebel fighter claims he was found in a hole shouting don't shoot when he was caught. speaking from iowa today, gop presidential candidate mitt romney released a statement about the reported death of moammar gadhafi saying, it's about time, and added the world is a better place with gadhafi down. joining me now is bobby gosh, a writer and editor of "time" magazine, as well as our own richard engel, nbc news' chief foreign correspondent. what is going to be the action

for the libyan people going forward? this is an armed society. there is celebratory gunfire. but that doesn't mean it's a society that's going to break into some sort of chaos. >> i think the transitional government has shown reasonably well they were able to prevent chaos. there wasn't widespread chaos when they took tripoli, for instance. there will be celebration, but then pretty soon after that, the government has to get down to the actual job of governing. now that a line can be drawn under moammar gadhafi, that's over. they'll figure out, as richard said, pretty quickly, how to get about the business of running the country. building a new army for a start. they're going to need one. building police and security forces to maintain order. >> they need to put the berets

away, stop being rebels and start being a government. >> libya just a little larger than the state of alaska here in the united states. obviously, most of it is desert area. however, when we talk about the fact this is a land ruled for 42 years by gadhafi, they don't know democracy. how is democracy going to be introduced without the expectation of some pitfalls? >> it's not going to be smooth. i don't think anybody expected it to be smooth. they have a few things going for them, unlike the uprising in egypt and in tunisia. this one actually had leadership from the get-go, and the fact that it's taken eight months means the transitional council has had opportunity to be tested both by libyans amongst themselves but also by the international community. they also have tremendous amount of oil, which is something they have going for them. they can reach out to a quite sizable diasp hchora, libyans w

live in the united states and in egypt have resources to bring back to their country can do so. they have lived in democracy, so they have experience. that's not to say it's not going to be difficult explaining to tribal folks who haven't had the opportunity to join the 21st century until now. explaining democracy to them is going to be difficult. but i think they have more going for them than we give them credit for. >> richard, as we watch all of this, though, what does it mean for the people in yemen and the people in syria who are watching this? not just the people, but the leaders of those countries seeing moammar gadhafi being dragged through the streets dead. >> the opposition in yemen already tried to kill the president of yemen. he survived that attack, was treated in saudi arabia, and then returned. it will encourage them, if not to try to kill him again, but serm certainly to go back and stay on the streets because they see even a leader as powerful as gadhafi, who declared himself the king of africa, can be

brought down, killed by opposition members, people that gadhafi called cockroaches and rats while the former libyan leader was hideing in an industrial park in the southwest part of his hometown. >> gentlemen, i want to ask you to stand by. we have nbc's mike viqueira on the line with us who's traveling with the secretary of state hillary clinton right now. they're in islamabad, pakistan. mike, give us the update from secretary clinton's perspective. they just landed, now in islamabad, pakistan. but she was in tripoli just two days ago on tuesday. her reaction to all of this. >> reporter: it's an extraordinary trip the secretary made. she was the highest ranking u.s. official to go there. it was obvious to the secretary and many of the people on the trip staff and the reporters with her, the situation there is obviously very unsettled. obviously, they are still -- or were still in the throes of revolution just a couple of days ago with moammar gadhafi still at large, a threat that american officials traveling with the

secretary had termed a lethal nuisance. now apparently, that lethal nuisance is out of the way. and some other things that the secretary had brought up are coming to play. she emphasized when she was there the need to unify the various militias that were successful in overthrowing the 42-year-old reign of gadhafi are now not a coherent group. american officials traveling with the secretary pointed that there have been orders -- [ inaudible ] >> unfortunately, we're having trouble with our connection with mike viqueira, who's traveling with secretary of state hillary clinton. they just arrived in islamabad, pakistan. we'll work on that connection to get mike's report back to you.

i want to thank the gentlemen of our panel, bobby ghosh, richard engel, thank you so much. a lot more to come because reports of gadhafi's capture and reported death triggering a day of celebration, as we mentioned, throughout the middle east. he will never again hold power or have any sway over this region. coming up, we talk about when the epd of the gadhafi era really means for the fight against terrorism as a whole in the middle east. [ husband ] you ready for this?

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high hopes from the revolution must be translated into high hopes for all. he goes on to say that he has also spoken to his special representative, currently in libya. the images you're seeing on your screen right now are cell phone i am anls taken by rebel leaders, who claim that is the body of moammar gadhafi after finding him in a fire fight near his hometown. there's also video that we'll be able to show you. right now getting the latest reactions pouring into us, the most recent coming from u.n. secretary general ban ki-moon saying this is not the time for revenge. the controversial and eccentric leader shunned by the international community for funding efforts around the globe. he funded efforts in the philippines and iran. he reportedly became the chief arms supporter for the i.r.a. in ireland and became the chief support for the palestinian black september movement. that's the group responsible for the 1972 munich olympic killings. he also admitted libyan

involvement in the lockerbie bombing of pan am flight 103 that killed 270 people. i'm joined by nbc news terrorism analyst roger cressie. roger, as you're watching these reports develop, what does gadhafi's death mean to the guerrilla groups around the world that may have supported the causes of gadhafi? >> well, thomas, gadhafi got out of the insurgent funding business a long time ago. but the real question is whether or not gadhafi's death will unleash a series of unintended consequences. whether or not the arms stashes that were part of the libyan military will now be more at risk. i don't think that's going to be the case. i think the transitional government is going to work very quickly with us and other nations to secure that. gadhafi's record was pretty bad when it came to support of state-sponsored terrorism. we did reconcile with him after 9/11. we had that short period of cooperation, and then it went

south. the real issue is what does his death mean for other dictators in the region and others around the world? >> you make a great point there as this was an effort mainly by the people of libya to reclaim their own country. on that note itself, what message is this going to be sending across the middle east especially when we think about yemen and syria? >> i think, as many people have said this morning, thomas, one size does not fit all. each nation in the region is different. i was in the arabian gulf a couple of weeks ago, and as they were watching what was happening in north africa, they were paying close attention to how the libyan people were reacting. certainly what's going on in yemen is very different. it's a high priority from a u.s. counterterrorism perspective. the united states is still conducting aggressive counterterrorism ops inside yemen. syria is a much different case. the real issue for the arab world is going forward, how do we take all of these events over

the last year, remarkable events, and try to chart a way forward that gives people the type of economic stability and growth, democratic representation, and the type of human rights support that many in the region aspire to. >> roger, as you point out, this in no way means terrorism won't be spawned some way by libya in the future. >> that's right. we're dealing with a number of tribal groups and individuals who now have to take on the mantel of governance and responsibility. it's one thing to be a freedom fighter. it's something else to run a bureaucracy and having to run a government, particularly a government that's known one way for many years now. the transition is going to be incredibly difficult. that's where the international community, particularly the west, is going to have to play a very aggressive role on aid and assistance, working very closely with the arab world in doing so. stability is the key here going forward in this transition. it's going to be a bumpy road. we just need to recognize that and be prepared for it.

>> certainly the beginning of the end, so to speak. roger cressey, thank you very much. much more on our continuing coverage, the breaking news of moammar gadhafi's death. celebrations are taking place all throughout the country right now as word spreads throughout libya. the rebels confirming that moammar gadhafi is dead. we'll have much more, including a report from the pentagon, and also someone from "the new york times" to talk to us about what this means for our country. i've seen this before -- the old "impromptu in-law visit." dad's a real cleaning machine. and look at mom whipping up some kraft homestyle mac & cheese. sure it's easy to make, but it looks like she's been busting her hump in the kitchen. [ doorbell rings ] ♪ let the fireworks begin. hi, it's so nice to see you. something smells good. [ male announcer ] kraft homestyle macaroni & cheese. cheesy noodles topped with golden-brown, breadcrumbs. you know you love it.

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body. the rebels also claim this cell phone picture shows the remains of moammar gadhafi. nbc news has not been able to independently verify that either the video or the cell phone picture are, in fact, the former libyan leader. this just in, the reaction from secretary of state hillary clinton as she was learning the news about gadhafi from her blackberry. >> unconfirmed, yeah. unconfirmed reports will gadhafi being captured. >> really? >> unconfirmed, yeah. we've had too many -- we've had a bunch of those before. we've had -- you know, have had him captured a couple of times. >> want to bring in nbc news chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski and nbc news foreign correspondent ayman. mick, i want to start with you. senior officials won't say whether gadhafi is dead even

though some prominent senators like john mccain have said they're confident he is dead. what are you hearing? >> so far and just a few minutes ago senior officials at the pentagon said they still cannot confirm, in fact, that moammar gadhafi is dead. very early today, as this story was breaking, we were told by a senior u.s. official that's good. i suspect, number one, they want to be cautious. number two, they want the libyan transitional government to get out there on camera, officially declare that he's dead, perhaps present proof of his death with either videos or bring in journalists or somebody to view the body. there are also questions about exactly how he was killed. there are reports that a nato air strike was launched against a convoy. that's true. nobody in the d.o.d. or nato can confirm that gadhafi himself was in the convoy or the target.

rebels on the ground are saying that a group dragged gadhafi out of a large drainage pipe where he was hiding and somehow during that capture he was killed. there's other video out there being aired on the arabic networks, al jazeera, on which the rebels turned over this body reportedly moammar gadhafi. it also appears he has a gunshot wound to the back of the head which would appear to be that he was killed execution style. going back to hillary clinton when she was in libya earlier this week. this is not about the future. one can only imagine out there on the battlefield those words probably went unheeded. >> jim miklaszewski at the pentagon. thanks so much. i want to bring in ayman. you reported on this region extensively. been there numerous times. the feeling on the ground from the people as well as the rebels, are they ready to support a new government,

however that comes to be, a new democracy? >> i think you can safely say they're willing to turn over a new page. they're not yet willing to throw their mix behind this particular government. i've been speaking to a lot of the people on the ground, rebels and others, that have been involved in the fighting. they're extremely excited about the fact that this chapter is now closed. there's no doubt that now there are going to be a lot of differences politically and ideally about which way libya will go forward. they're willing to support the national transitional council insofar as the atc can begin to demonstrate its capabilities in governing libya as to how libya is going to transition over the next several months. >> isince you've had to wear th body armor and the celebratory crowds you were seeing, i tried to support your network. they turned the tables on the reporter because they wanted to know if that reporter felt safe which the reporter sporesponded yes, but because of the celebratory gunfire, i need to

have this vest on. is that what the libyan people want the rest of the world to see? they want to be seen that they are a people that want democracy, a people that want to not be living under the role of a dictator. they want other people to see them as humans. >> absolutely. on one hand, they want everyone to see that this was an organic libyan movement. they want to see this as a new beginning for the libyan people. libya has been a country ruled by one family, one man for nearly 42 years. that has certainly cost the libyan people a great deal in terms of lost potential. now they want to show the world they have the potential to build a new country and new society. there are going to be a lot of differences, ideological differences, tribal differences. at the end of the day, one thing all the libyan people united behind was the need to topple

this regime. i think that's what they need to show the people today. that's what they want to show the world going forward, and that's why they're going to the journalists and telling people, feel the celebration we are going to put down perhaps our weapons, not necessarily towards one another but at least towards the gadhafi regime. >> ayman, nice to meet you. welcome to the nbc family. let's get more reaction on the alleged death of moammar gadhafi, what it means for the united states going forward. we're joined by "the new york times" winning columnist nicholas christoff. you wrote on your page today that gadhafi being dead means a vindication of the brave obama decision to try to topple the longtime libyan of this

death of gadhafi will be felt far beyond libya and the middle east, even as far as china. explain why. >> in so many places where there are deck tators. it's very hard to see how that comes along. always progresses inching along. what happened today in libya is a reminder that occasionally libya marches in these discontinuities. someone who seems absolutely unasalable a year later is just gone. i think that is going to be a real source of moral support, especially for those protesters in syria and yemen. >> i was going to say what do you think the type of mess anag being sent as arabic news channels showing gadhafi's body being dragged through the

streets of his hometown, as well as they've been covering the trial of hosni mubarak, who's been showing up in court in a cell and a hospital bed. what do you think the impact of these two very divergent images is going to say to the leaders of syria and yemen? >> i hope the message won't be to crack down on dissent for fear of ending up like gadhafi. i'm hoping instead, the message they're going to absorb, is if they refuse to do a deal and leave the country, for example, then they may end up as gadhafi does. i hope it's going to be impetus for a negotiated tedeal for someone like president assad to just leave the country. >> nicholas christoff, thank you for your time. thank you, sir. >> my pleasure. >> senator john kerry just released a statement on the part of gadhafi. in part, gadhafi's death marks the end of his reign of terror and the promise of a new libya.

the united states demonstrated clear-eyed leadership, patience, and foresight, by pushing the international community into action after gadhafi promiseded a massacre. stay with us. we're going to have much more ahead on msnbc. we know a place where tossing and turning have given way to sleeping. where sleepless nights yield to restful sleep. and lunesta can help you get there, like it has for so many people before. when taking lunesta, don't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake. walking, eating, driving, or engaging in other activities while asleep, without remembering it the next day, have been reported. abnormal behaviors may include aggressiveness, agitation, hallucinations or confusion. in depressed patients, worsening of depression, including risk of suicide, may occur. alcohol may increase these risks.

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the body of moammar gadhafi. these images coming to us from rebel commanders who have supplied it to us. reactions coming in from capitol hill. from senator john mccain, "the death of moammar gadhafi marks an end to the first phase of the libyan revolution. while some final fighting continues, the libyan people have liberated their country. the united states along with our european allies and arab partners must now deepen our support for the libyan people as they work to make the next phase of the democratic revolution as successful as the fight to free their country." a member of the senate foreign relations committee and the subcommittee on african affairs. thank you for joining us. let's talk about this going forward. obviously senators like john mccain and chair of the foreign relations committee john kerry are reporting that gadhafi is dead. the white house has yet to confirm what common sense would dictate by what we're seeing by these images. what is the intelligence that

you're hearing on the hill? >> we believe that he is dead from all the information that we have received. obviously, we need to get that confirmed. these reports are good news not just for the united states but for libya. this allows the objective of protecting the people of libya. could not happen with colonel gadhafi still being around. this is really good news. >> sir, over the summer, you supported a limited military role by u.s. forces in libya and the events over the past few months. the fall of gadhafi. the rise of the transitional council. and what we're seeing today, what do they signify in your estimation for the future of the nation and u.s. involvement going forward? >> the way we handle libya was the right way. there was resolve within the country for a change. the region was supportive of the change. the international community came together. and the support forces were international. they were not led by the united

states. that's exact formula we need to use in order to achieve the type of result we did in libya. the reason we went there was to protect the civilian population. and that has been achieved. >> it was a nato-led operation. sir, can you assure the american people that u.s. army military boots are not going to be on the ground on the soil in libya as that country tries to come to some sort of government democracy moving forward? >> absolutely. we will not have boots on the ground. there is no reason, and there is no justification for america putting boots on the ground in libya. our role was one of giving air support so that the libyans themselves could take back their own country. now it's up to libya to rule itself and to be a respectable member of the international community. >> senator ben cardin of maryland, sir, it's good to have you on with us this morning. we appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> we will have much more on the breaking news. the reports that rebels have killed moammar gadhafi. still waiting from officials at the white house to confirm whether or not they know for

certain that moammar gadhafi is dead. we're back with much more.

welcome back, celebrations continue in libya at this hour on the news that moammar gadhafi is dead after 42 years of libyan rule. u.s. officials have not confirmed to us this news but if true, it will have political impacts that could be felt around the world. what does it mean for libya moving forward karen hunter and mark tapscott for the washington examiner, they join me now. i want to start with you, the president was the voice for lead from behind, stuck with that strategy. what does that mean for the obama administration? >> victory and the republicans will have one less thing to hit him with and they were wrong once again. he did something that he felt he needed to do and they were

talking about constitutions and he was violating this and violating that. but the results are indisputable. >> mark, a lot of republicans voice their o position to the effort of what took place in libya and had more problems with the president's strategy. how will this play out coupled with the plan and capture of bin laden? >> he got bin laden and awlaki and now gadhafi. the problem is for obama and for democrats, this election in 2012 is not going to be decided on the basis of foreign policy. it's going to be decided on the basis of the economy. this has nothing to do with the economy. >> mark, you make a great point there. the economy is what domestically the american public will care about. >> absolutely. it shows when this president doesn't have to rely on congress to do things he gets things done

and shows how much of an obstructionist this congress has been to making this jobs bill happen and a whole lot of other things. this bolsters the president. >> thankds for joining me this morning. that will do it for me today. i appreciate your time with me this morning as we've been rocking and rolling through this breaking news coverage about the death of moammar gadhafi. rebel leaders saying that the dictator is dead. richard liu picks thing up. >> we're continuing to cover the reported death of gadhafi, what it means for the future of libya, who can take control now and what role will the u.s. play? stale with msnbc. follow the wings.

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gadhafi has been captured and possibly killed. rebels are celebrating in the hometown of sirte. that is where the leerd was captured and shot while trying to flee. neither the white house or state department has been able to confirm reports gadhafi has been killed. rebel fighter captured video reportedly showing gadhafi's body. i want to warn you it is a bit graphic. rebel fighters found him cowering in a hole and pleaded for his life saying don't shoot, don't shoot. they are also circulating a gruesome cell phone photo along with the video here that they claim proves the dictator is dead. nbc news has not independently verified this is gadhafi. there's no way to identify the person in this photo as of this time. his body is in reportedly in one of mosques in misrata.