>> good afternoon. it's monday october 24th. here's what's happening. rick perry waxes poetic about the true love of his life. >> it was a long love affair with a boy and his gun that turned into a man and his gun. >> reloads on the birther controversy and blasts herman cain on abortion. >> you are pro having your cake and eating it too. >> herman tries to fire back. >> dick cheney, eat your heart out. we begin as the president kicking off a west coast swing. for his republican rivals, it's now just 10 weeks to go until the iowa caucuses and that brings rick perry roaring into the hawk eye state, all guns blazing, he joins contenders at the faith and freedom forum, courting the faithful and

looking to see that he is the reddest of red blood republicans out there. >> i found the true source of hope and change. that is a loving god who changes hearts of stone into hearts of flench. >> more on who or what his heart belongs to in a moment, but that was not the first backhanded slap at the president. indeed, just as we thought the birther bandwagon left town, perry has dinner with donald trump and makes a last ditch scramble to get on board. see if you can follow the twists and turns in his interview with parade magazine published on sunday. governor, do you believe the president barack obama was born in the united states? i have no reason to think otherwise. that's not a definitive yes, i believe he -- >> well, i don't have a definitive answer because he's never seen my birth certificate. >> but you have seen his.

>> i don't know, have i? >> you don't believe what's been released? >> i don't know. i had dinner with donald trump the other night. >> and? >> that came up. >> and he said? >> he doesn't think it's real. >> and you said? >> i don't have any idea. it doesn't matter. he's the president of the united states. he's distractive issue. >> do you follow that? no? neither did i. trump's lawyer released a statement saying "okay, but one thing that's perfectly clear is rick perry's deep passionate abiding love of guns. call it how the governor got his groove back. heading out on the iowa hunt and the man who carries a concealed weapon and the shoos coyotes in the face, he couldn't help but bobble over. >> it was a long love affair

with a boy and his gun that turned into a man and his gun and turned into a man and his son and his daughter and their guns. that's part of america. walking across that hillside with one of your children, hunting. whatever it might be. >> plinking in case you were wondering is shooting at tin cans and brick a brack. i had to turn to wikipedia for that definition. the wild west show calls to mind another world leader, yes, vladimir putin. you can bet he doesn't plink around with his rifle. he shoots to kill. where is mr. perry shirtless on horseback? you can hardly find a photo of him with a horse, for pete's sake. he is no putin. he plink away at rivals and firing off at random and for his

top rival, it appears mitt romney and immigration may be the latest tin can on the post. >> for governor romney to be making strong statements about immigration when it's been his actions that have caused part of the problem, the magnet of jobs is what has driven these people to come to the united states. >> well, as romney takes another shot from perry for his illegal yard workers, the governor is facing scrutiny for part of his state's health care plan that included care for some undocumented immigrants. so is immigration the issue that's going to turn this republican primary into a circular firing squad? joining me now, political analyst and columnist for bloomberg view, michael eric dyson, professor at georgetown university. this birther issue if you can believe it's back, the trump

team put out a statement insisting that serious questions remain about the president's birth certificate. "is it authentic? i don't know." your reaction to that, sir? >> this is nothing more than the recycling of myth and stereotype and rumor and the president once having put this issue to bed by producing empirical verification of his american birth certificate. he was born in the united states and not kenya. he is an american citizen. it's been proved. the long ferm is released. this is nothing more than the persistence of bigotry that needs to be put in its proper perspective. the refusal to acknowledge the legitimacy of barack obama's citizenship is the linchpin not only for response towards mr. obama, but the question of all others. it's a division between united states and them and the united states is all the people who look like donald trump or rick

perry and the them is everybody else. >> why has rick perry mentioned this in a parade interview almost unprompt and why is trump drumming it up again? >> trump is trump. he's a vulgar clown and he does this to get himself in the headlines. i don't mean to put too fine of a point on it. the problem here for rick perry is there will be some folks who look at this and not only take him less seriously because he is trafficking with a known clown, but because it raises questions about his credulousness and willingness to believe what he hears from somebody. when you are president of the united states, you talk to all kinds of people and people lie to you all the time. they try to get you to believe things that are not true. when you are negotiating with foreign leaders, if you just

accept the assurances of a foreign leader about the state of affairs in a particular country because you know them and because you had lunch with them the way rick perry had lunch with donald trump and told them a hunk of hooey, is he going believe that from the foreign leader when he is president? this goes to his willingness to be duped essentially. what does that say about him as a possible president of the united states? >> we will talk about immigration in a moment, but is the intention to cast the president with an illegal immigrant? >> sure. they have been trying their best to make him the ultimate other. he is unamerican and a communist and a socialist and he is an anti-patriot. anything they can do to drum up any kind of image of this president is opposed to the central part of america. the central heartbeat of this nation does not. he has a kind of patriotic

arrhythmia. his heart doesn't beat the same way. this is the attempt to put him out there and make him that thing that we don't know who he is. he is this foreign person and snuck in here and he has become president and we have to ferret him out. though jonathan is right for the wise thinking people and the good thinking people who know that this guy is buying a bunch of bunk on the one hand, the reality is he is appealing to the base of millions of others who won't see anything but the evidence that this president needs to be scrutinized much more. it feeds into the worst aspects of the right wing agenda. >> rick perry has attacked mitt romney for having consideration in his health care plan that would care for children of immigrants. how is it possible that a so-called christian person takes the view that actually having

welfare for defenseless children is a reason to be attacked politically? >> this is a response for romney's attack on perry that perry called heartless for being willing to pay for the tuition of the children of illegals who are not illegal themselves who want nothing more than to get a good education at the university of texas. this is a race to the bottom in terms of appealing as michael eric dyson put it. they hate immigrants even if they are children. when you start to probe the depths of that kind of attitude, something very ugly comes to the surface. the really sad thing is it makes it harder to move towards some kind of real immigration reform.

the president couldn't even get the dream act through at the end of last year. he wants to introduce it. it's one of the big priorities and it's an important thing to do for the country and this back and forth makes it harder to achieve. >> jonathan and professor dyson, we have much more to discuss. do stay with us. when we come back, mitt romney's latest problem. . >> the republican party has found it's michael dukakis. a massachusetts governor running on competence and not ideology. [ male announcer ] tom's discovering that living healthy can be fun.

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>> welcome back. it's monday and light rick perry, we have been out hunting for today's top lines. >> we are not called to be

perfect. if any of you who watched my debate performances over the last three or four times you know i am far from perfect. >> if rick perry were the nominee, i would be voting for him. >> it was a long love affair with a boy and his gun approximate that turned into a man and a son and his daughter and their guns. >> the rise of cain. it has a lot to do with romney. he is rising and come to the conclusion that the republican party found its michael dukakis. >> are you in herman cain's famous becky becky becky stan? >> it is hard to say i am personally pro life, but government should stay out of that decision. you are not pro life. you are pro have your cake and eating it too. >> that's her choice. that is not government's choice. i support from conception. >> i was misinterpreted talking

about the abortion thing. >> abortion should not be legal. i believe in the sarchthity of life. it ultimately gets down to a choice that that family or mother has to make. not me as president or not some politician or a bureaucrat. >> i'm not getting it. i'm not understanding. if it's her choice that, means it's legal. >> no. i believe -- i don't believe a woman should have an abortion. does that help to clear it up? >> though republicans are eager to paint mitt romney as a flip flopper, there is a growing amount of evidence that the rest of the gop candidates are having a hard time finding footing on well-defined issues such as a woman's right to choose. we are back with jonathan and professor eric diand msnbc contributor. i wonder if i can start with you. herman cain was on a roll with

his positions. no to abortion even in cases of rape orrin set of. is he having second thoughts? >> i think he is having trouble. the fact that he never held office before, he ran for senate, but this is his first time on a big stage. it's starting to show. we have seen him have to walk back on negotiating with terrorists and even on his famous 9-9-9 plan he had to woe re work it and say here's what we are going to do. he is struggling to stay consistent and on message at this point. >> professor dyson, it appears fox news is souring on herman cain, no less than karl rove was taking him to task. let's take a look. >> that wasn't karl rove. he suggested he may not be up to the task. what do you think? >> you get the candidates you

pray for. the right wing is deeply invested in pi ety and making certain that got is involved in all this. how can you deny that is not the manifestation for the republican party. it's a bunch of shenanigans going on. they will have to pass on them and i don't think they can pass based on anything they said so far. they said things that have been regretful for them and perry came in like a hurricane and going out like a whim per. this is the story of a man and his gun and now a man and his gun and family as crystal ball suggested. it's all over the shop. he is symptomatic of the chaos and the back flipping and the back biting going on among the republicans and having a firing squad in the circle is appropriate given the fact that they can't figure out what they

want to say when they aim at them. >> how do you explain the fact that most economists described the 9-9-9 as economically dyslexic and he is raising money like never before. while they don't regard him well, the people like herman cain. >> simple solutions are appealing. he provides -- >> this is people putting hands in their pockets and spending money. >> he has done well by their standards in the republican party in these debates and has a superficial appeal. i think the real problem for cain now flip flopping on abortion is his original position that got him in trouble was closer to the libertarian principals that a lot of people find appealing. he said at one point how can the government come in and tell a woman what to do with their own

body. we think of that as the liberal position and the libertarian position. if you don't believe that government has a place in our lives that, would be one of the last places that the government should go. in that sense he is losing the consistency that was appealing to a certain segment. >> professor dyson, what was your reaction when you heard mr. cain repeatedly suggest that people without jobs are solely to blame for their predicament? it's their thought. >> it's ludicrous. it was for him to say this and it's heartless and the republicans have to go visit the wizard of oz to find a heart. they have none. they have no sympathy for other human beings out of work. no empathy for whose whose backs are against the wall.

maybe coke and cain doesn't mix well and we have to get a new drug that. one ain't working. >> rum and coke, crystal? >> i don't know how to follow that? >> crystal meth. >> thank you very much for joining us. stay with us. >>per first, ask them a question. do you think i am dumb enough not to learn the intricacies over the last several months and secondly -- >> i can hear the applause. >> you think i'm dumb enough not to try to learn some of this? just one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day

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this week, eric kantor will introduce a jobs bill of its own. what should we expect? let's join nbc's luke russert. aside from trickle down economics, is there anything in the proposal and you are not allowed to say cut taxes and

remove regulations. on to the question. >> not necessarily a new proposal, but it goes back to what he said the last week in his speech. he was slated to give the university of pennsylvania, like a steve jobs program. that had to do with the income disparity in the united states and the idea that if the government can empower, they get a chance to bring everybody up rungs of the ladder. that would be the idea. as always these jobs from the republican centralized with a few 10 apts and deregulation. >> you are not allowed to say that, luke. >> the philosophical divide here is republicans will never go for this big radio stimulus package that president wants and democrats will never go for the complete bring the regulatory hands off the backs of businesses. they think all sorts of terrible things will happen. >> he was due to deliver this steve jobs proposal and the

business school and he ran a bit scared, didn't he? >> there was the agreement that his office said was in place for the members of the community to be at that speech and that was broken when the school said the first 300 people who can go through the doors ever showed up and would be allowed to attend. there was consternation because a lot of the folks wanted to go to the speech and engage. i will you, politicians on the left and the right know that there is a large segment of people who will scream and yell at them and a lot of them never subject themselves to that pr. that would play on cable tv. >> just so i understand you, what you are saying to ordinary members of the public being present. >> members of the public of course. they would have a vendetta against him. it's a public relations disaster. if you are a politician getting

screamed and yelled at and i believe in his case dealt a fair chance to engage people back and forth whether it's 300 against one. >> thank you for joining us. when we come back, dr. cornell west. [ male announcer ] to the 5:00 a.m. scholar. the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu. good gravy, bill. our insurance company doesn't have anything like it. magnificent, isn't it? with progressive,

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care of the new york civil liberties union. of those 600,000 people stopped at random in 2010, 87% were black or hispanic and only 7% of the searches resulted in arrest. the city mayor and police commissioner ray kelly have defended the program claiming it saves lives. dr. cornell west is a professor at the university and cohost of the smiley and west radio show. professor, the argument that is being given for the figures is that police have been working in high crime urban areas. in areas notorious for criminality. 87%? can you explain that? >> it's black and brown and you and i know that the ugliest feature of any society is arbitrary. fair police power is something else. and democracies, if we don't have rule of law that curtails

the police power, then our democracy is a sham. we want to make sure in fact that these pressures young people of all colors are according to the desensey and their rights. >> you say arbitrary and that sounds deliberate. it sounds like there is a campaign going on. >> arbitrary in terms of unfair. in terms of unjustified. illegal jitimate. >> when the figures were revealed. the most common reason for why they stopped an individual was not because the individual fitted the description of a suspect, but described as this. fortive motive. is that like having a cigarette? >> we have to ask them to unpack that. what in the world do they mean? it turns out that this is a

class as well. doesn't that tell you that the police in a sense are given such ludicrous guidelines? >> i'm going to stop most people. >> that's right. we should keep in mind and when we met both and 125th seventh avenue and they are in front of the police station. 123rd and frederick douglas that a number of the police do in fact implicitly and explicitly acknowledge they are right. they don't like enforceing it, but they do it because they are on high. this goes to the mayor and asked the mayor explicitly. we are saying the mayor is a terrific mayor. wait a minute. on this issue he doesn't look too fair. >> i read you on the constitution, i thought the fourth amendment was supposed to

bar this sort of thing. unreasonable searches and seizures. is the constitution not being applied? >> it is unconstitutional. in brown barrios. if there was indigenous people around and poor white brothers and sisters as well. >> your view is completely unconstitutional? >> and illegal, racist and arbitrary and unfair and illegitimate. >> i want to get your views of herman for a moment. let me get your reaction when he was speaking at the republican debate. listen to this. >> two weeks ago you said don't blame wall street and the big banks. blame yourself. that was two weeks ago and the movement has grown. do you still say that? >> yes, i do still say that. here's why. >> we will deal with the cheering crowd in a moment. what was he talking about? >> this is part of the right wing ideology that believes in

individualism and therefore individual responsibility is the sole and primary factor that accounts for any kind of out come. context plays an important role. >> you have been on the streets campaigning. are they occupying cities around the world because they are to blame for being unemployed? >> if you go back to herman cain's blessed family, you will see that black people were poor because of lack of individual responsibility? no, it's called systematic lynching and context makes a difference. he believes now that all of a sudden we are in the land of equal leveling and equal opportunity. he wants to believe that it's a

myth that is like that. >> we can do it and make pizzas and money. why are people occupying wall street? stop occupying wall street and get a job. >> even in herman cain's case, people helped him and friends enabled him and his lobbying years enabled him. no one in the world makes it all by themselves. this notion of an isolated individual who makes themselves rich. it's nothing but a myth. >> time magazine is heralding the return of the silent majority. it doesn't exist. is that who herman cain is appealing to? >> 59% of americans support the coup wall street movement. is that the silent majority. democratic awakening and working people, poor people and well to

do persons of good well. well to do persons with conscious. they can make a moral choice to be in solidarity with working and poor people. that's what it is to be human. to have commitment and convicts contrary to your interest. this is not a world driven by interest. something called integrity and character. that's in part with occupy wall street is all about. >> thank you for being with us. don't get arrested the remainder of the day. the president and a lifeline to homeowners drowning in debt. >> over the past decade, we spent a trillion dollars on war. borrowed heavily from over seas and invested too little in the greatest source of our national strength. our own people. now the national we need to build is our own. tle emotional hetlretl?tl aren't you getting a little industrial? okay, there's enough energy right here in america. yeah, over 100 years worth. okay, so you mean you just ignore the environment.

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rupert murdoch's media empire cannot get a break from the british parliament. close friend and murdoch employee made his third appearance before a house of commons committee. we learned that james murdoch, son of rupert will make another appearance before the committee next month. both are accused of being economical with the truth before lawmakers in london. the former editor of the sunday times author of good times bad times. editor at large is sir harold evans. i read your book and you suggest that rupert murdoch never made a promise that he meant to keep. >> he never made a promise he kept. maybe in a fraction of a second when he made it, he thought perhaps i can keep this one. it doesn't survive. >> that are suggests there is an absence of morality and misconduct. is that fair? >> in my book i said the most

interesting character in milton's paradise lost, the most clever and able person is the lucifer. lucifer also had a problem with equating the fact. the fact is rupert has an objective. a nicety like in particular, he said during the time we were investigating whether he was fit to become owner of the times in the sunday times for which political independence was crucial, he was being interviewed by a biographer. he said to him, give these promises and politicians cover their as. they will soon forget about it. he was totally right. he has a tremendous vision of what is possible. >> you also described him as houdini. is it fair to say he will survive all of this despite the horrendous activities and all that has been revealed. i think he creates an atmosphere

that is not conducive to what it typified. my guess is that he will survive. he creates an atmosphere and most of his executives and the best way of putting it is to do things that they imagined might win his favor. they are right to do this for two reasons. one reason is that when people mean that quickly executed, secondly however is that he does have a perception of the possibilities of radical change, brilliant new inventions and he was early to see the importance of satellite television. if he comes out with a crazy idea like do this or do that, they are frightened. the two sources of his part of the brutality of the sector and secondly his own vision.

>> what are about his corrosive influence. let's be frank. and you i know that most of the last 25 years a prime minister has knocked on rupert murdoch's door. >> from maggie thatcher on. every time he wanted something, he got it. he controlled such a large segment. it's kine of ingenious. if you don't give me what i want, you will get the bad press. this is why mrs. thatcher in particular was wrong and against the existing law to allow such a massive monopoly. if you get monopolies, you cannot get decent coverage of politicians. the politicians had to increase and rupert got what he wanted of them. so on and so on. >> how he has tried to do that in this country. is there evidence in the united states that the political

pressures and action exists are well documented. >> in the newspapers, suddenly edward kennedy stopped him and stopped being difficult. and there after the boston papers stopped calling him foot so kennedy. he didn't press the obstacles and cost me the ownership. there is a whole slew of the cross mediaship rules being bent to sir rupert. he is extremely clever and charming and gets what he wants. in the united states, that is as true as it is in -- i don't know of anything he really has been denied by political people going back to jimmy carter. anybody in the united states. i understand that his power is not as great in the united states, but none the less he is

pretty powerful now and has the "wall street journal" which i must say, it seems to me as an outsider, not corrupting. it would be silly of him to do what he did at the time in london. >> indeed. thank you so much for joining us. >> today with one in four american homes financially under water, president obama offers a new lifeline for the ailing housing market. that's next. ♪ ♪ hey! it says just take one! i can't read. ♪ [ male announcer ] walmart has low prices, every day for halloween. from bags of candy to bigger bags of candy. backed by our ad match guarantee. save money. live better. walmart.

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>> minutes from now, president obama will kickoff a new offensive in dealing with the country's real estate crisis. the president wants to help homeowners avoid foreclosure by allowing them to refinance their mortgages. nearly quarter of mortgage holders in the united states are under water and nevada leads the nation in foreclosures. joining me now is elijah cummings and democrat from

maryland who has been a forefront of the fight against foreclosures and the crisis they are in. they are key or the welfare to the american economy. do you think the president's proposal and we don't have much detail yet, but do you think this is going to make a difference today? >> it will make a small difference and i applaud the president for doing this. about three or four weeks ago and a number of us in the congress about 18 members met with the acting head of fhfa to urge him to move this process along. the president just announced this before a joint session of congress that he was going to do something to allow homeowners who were under water and current in their mortgages to be able to get the lower interest rates we are seeing now. we have a situation here where

we -- the program is already helping about 900,000 people, but according to the experts, it should help about another 2013. that's a small step, but at least it's a major step in the right direction. >> you know, sir, that you're political opponents don't like this kind of intervention, and mitt romney actually had this to say recently about the problem. let's listen to what he said. >> don't try and stop the foreclosure process. let it run its course and hit the bottom, allow investors to buy homes, put renters in them, fix the homes up. >> i guess with everything mr. romney says, it sounds perfectly plausible. do you agree? >> i think mr. romney is out of touch with america. every six months, i have what i call my foreclosure prevention congress, where we have homeowners sitting down with lenders. and martin, i can tell you, i wish mr. romney would come and see grown men cry and see

families that have -- are on the verge of being put out of their houses. maybe then he can understand a little bit better. sitting up on his perch and making these kind of statements only can make americans very angry. and americans want relief. again, i'm talking about people, martin, who have been able to make their mortgage payments, even in these tough times. give them a break. help them out a little bit. that's what this is all about. >> how do you answer the charge, sir, that this is too little, too late. that in a way, the administration really could have intervened much sooner in the housing crisis ? >> i must tell, we have been pushing in the congress for intervention for a long time. and i wish the administration had moved a little faster, but the fact is that they're moving. that's the main thing, and we're going to be moving with mr. demarco again this week, and we're going to say, we're glad that you did what you promised us a month ago, but now we don't

want you to mistake a comma for a period. this is only the beginning and we want to push him to do even more things. >> it's obviously a good beginning, as you said, 900,000 people will be helped. and that's, you know, it could amount to thousands of dollars to some people. but isn't the central issue here the banks? both in terms of existing loans and the new criteria for borrowing. and isn't it time that these banks, who currently enjoy vast profits, as you know, can they not be forced to help desperate, desperate homeowners? >> well, i agree with you totally, martin. the problem is largely the banks and there's some things that the president can do and the congress can do, but, unfortunately, our republican congress sits still and don't want to do anything. they take the position pretty much of mr. romney. but the fact is is that mark zandi, the adviser, the economist and adviser to mr. mccain has said over and over

again, unless we deal with this housing problem, it's going to be almost impossible to deal with the economic problems we see in these recessionary times. we've got to deal with this. not only that, we want to save some folks some pain and heartache. one of the things people have got to keep in mind, when you put somebody out of a house, they've got to live somewhere. and also remember that neighborhood values go down in that area around where there's a foreclosed house. it's very important that we address this. again, this is a first step, but i think it is one that we must now use as a foundation to do a lot more. >> i get the economics, sir, but finally, all of this discussion just seems to be without any kind of compassion. there just doesn't seem to resonate anymore. the idea that people have to leave their houses and sleep in a car, that's fine. the fact that people can't get a job, that's their problem. is that what this is about now? is this the culture which we're in? >> i think we suffer from a compassionate -- a compassion

deficit. many folks suffer from that. and we've got to get back to taking care of our own. the fact is is that america got the reputation that it has received by the way it took care of its own. and i think we are falling short of that, of taking care of our brothers and sisters. and now we've got to get back to that. so democrats in the congress are going to continue to push for these changes, so that we can help our fellow americans get through the storm. it is a difficult storm we're in, but as i say to my constituents, the question is not whether the storm will end, the question is, who will be in your house when it's over. who will have your job when it's over. or will those jobs even exist? because we've still got a lot of work to do during this storm, but i think with steps like this, we'll get through it. and on the other side, we'll be better off. >> we pray so. congressman elijah cummings, thank for joining us. >> thank you. >> and we'll be right back to clear the air. ♪ ♪♪

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it's time now to clear the air. in about ten minutes, the president will speak in las vegas, ground zero for this nation's collapsed housing market. but the biggest irony of all is that the forces that brought about the worst housing bubble in decades, overconfidence in borrowing, unscrupulous lending, and out-of-control spending might well be the only things that will resolve the crisis. at least, that's what we're repeatedly told by the experts. economists continue to say this kind of thing because they know that despite the decline of incomes, many of us still believe that our future happiness is dependent upon our ability to buy things. and yet this may be the biggest fraud of all. professor ronald engelhart from the university of michigan examined more than 250,000 people in 17 separate countries. he found barely any connection

between income and happiness. in fact, his research revealed that what money can buy produces rapidly diminishing returns. so the first time we're more likely to enjoy something once we've bought it, but by the third time we use it, it may not even register on our sense of happiness or enjoyment. so rather than return ourselves to a position where we can start borrowing and buying again, isn't it also important that we recalibrate our mindless pursuit of material positions? robert reich was labor secretary under president clinton, a period generally regarded as economically upbeat. but here's his assessment of what might be called the psychological fraud of our generation. "people are led to believe that one day they will find satisfaction, but that day never seems to arrive. there is no light at the end of the