along all much more than they do him though i'm beginning to wonder about herman cain. he's starting to open -- he's opening up a lead over romney, and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. don't forget to catch president obama on "the tonight show" tonight with jay leno. "politics nation" with al sharpton starts right now. the republicans jobs plan. you have to see it and you still won't believe it. >> if any member of congress thinks there are no unemployed workers that would benefit from the proposals in the jobs bill, they better think again. >> president barack obama's fight for jobs out west, while washington republicans offer this. >> this country cannot wait for him to get off the campaign trail. >> congressman chaka fattah and david corn on jobs and do the-nothing congress. perrynomics 101. >> it grows job and it grows the

economy. >> governor perry's got a great economic plan if you think corporations are people. richard wolff and richard slater on the plan billion airs love. workers in ohio and wisconsin against union-busting governors. former ohio governor ted strickland on the big pushback that's working. plus, guess who's leading the gop field? hint. he's not even running. "politics nation" starts right now. welcome to "politics nation." i'm al sharpton. tonight's lead. republicans feeling the heat on the jobs debate because they are on the wrong side of this argument. >> i want you to tell your congress person the time for gridlock and games is over.

the time for action is now. the time to create jobs is now. it's about giving the american people a win. it's about giving ohio a win. if you want construction workers rebuilding america, pass this bill. if you want teachers back in the classroom, pass this bill. if you want to cut taxes for middle class families, pass this bill. if any member of congress thinks there are no unemployed workers or no down on their luck neighborhoods in their district that would benefit from the proposals in the jobs bill, then they better think again. >> yeah. think again. since the president unveiled his jobs plan six weeks ago, he's been selling that jobs message in cities from coast to coast, and americans are behind him. nearly 60% support payroll tax cuts. two-thirds support taxing the rich and three out of four jobs for teachers and fire fighters.

republicans are taking notice, and we have the proof. gop mastermind karl rove is out with a blueprint for killing the president's jobs plan, and it's all done by distorting the truth. his organization calls the memo pushing back on stimulus two, tax increases and class warfare. here's an example. americans support jobs for teachers and firemen, but republicans think they can win the argument if they can, quote, cast the issue in terms of government bailouts, end of quote. mitch mcconnell already nailed that talking point. >> the question is whether the federal government ought to be raising taxes on 300,000 small businesses in order to send money down to bail out states for whom fire fighters and police work. >> rove's group also tells republicans, quote, point out

that obama's stimulus is not a serious solution. so that's where they got that line from. >> what he calls his job package and what we call stimulus two. >> more stimulus spending, a short-term gimmick, higher taxes, more regulations. >> every time he goes to identify a bridge or another project that is yet not funded and is in disrepair, he's going to remind people that it's his stimulus that was unable to deliver. >> joining me now is congressman chaka fattah, democrat from pennsylvania and david corn, msnbc political analyst, and washington bureau chief for "mother jones." thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> good evening. >> thank you for having me. >> congressman, let me start with you. can republicans really dress up their unpopular ideas by playing word games? let me give you an example what i'm talking about.

we saw the statement made by mr. mcconnell talking about a bipartisan opposition. look at this. this bill's top selling point, according to the president, was that both parties should like it. yet so far the only thing both parties in congress seem to agree on is that it's got to be a better way than this. >> both parties should agree on. i -- i think only two senators, democrat, voted against this. how is that bipartisan until you look at rove's memo where he says make it look bipartisan. so they are really playing almost a shell game because rove is saying sell it as bipartisan opposition. i doubt if you can make two people a bipartisan representation, at least. other party. >> well, look, these -- this is the situation. president obama is lifting this economy, even against the outrageous opposition he's

getting. we've seen now some 24 months of private sector job growth continuously. we've seen 15 months of sale increases at the nation's retailers who just yesterday announced they will hire over 100,000 people before thanksgiving to get red for the holiday season. we have a reality now. i talked to the new secretary of commerce today, his second day on the job. we're talking about manufacturing. we've seen in the front edge of this recovery some 300,000 plus new jobs in manufacturing. i've visited manufacturing plants right outside of philadelphia, boeing, that had 4,000 employees two years ago, now has 6,000, got three shifts running because the president gave boeing the largest contract in the history of the country. we've -- i was out in hartford, connecticut, saw 20,000 people working putting jet engines together. we have work to do and we have people who are unemployed. they want to say there are millions of people unemployed so, therefore, obama is not doing his job. reverend, let's poll those people who are unemployed.

do they want to vote for the party voting against having unemployment benefits, voting to help the state so that they don't lose their homes and voted against health care -- >> that's going to be the question, congressman. but david, is it not wise to underestimate the republicans because they have been able to master half truths and distortions and outright lies in the past to their political gain. >> it is unwise to underestimate their ability to handle spin. we had the health care fight. the government takeover of the health care system. death panels. we've had two years of republicans saying the stimulus did not create any jobs. now, there were problems with the stimulus but the cbo said that it lifted employment by 2.5 to 3 million jobs, so they have learned -- they have learned very well and karl rove has learned this lesson that if you come up with the right buzz phrases and the right words that

feed to people's pre-existing biases about government and washington, that they can at least fight to a draw, if not win, so this is -- you know, it doesn't matter where the truth is here. it matters whether they have the ability to prey on these biases. >> how do the democrats defeat it? how do they protect themselves against these distortions and spin that has worked in the past? >> the way you do this, and the congressman can tell you, is you just have to be forceful again and again, and you have to be direct. remember when the clinton administration started the war room, so as soon as they come out with these memos and talking points that are wrong or that play with the truth or that are fabrications, you've got to cut them off at the knees right away, and that's really the president's job, more than anyone else, because he has the bully pulpit, and he has to really -- he has to campaign not just against a do-nothing congress. he has to campaign against the republican anti-obama machine.

he has to say they are telling things that's not true. let's go down them and not let them germinate and get into the bloodstream. that's the thing that the white house has to be mindful of. >> congressman, lately we've seen the president in the last couple of weeks that i just played a montage, he's hit the road. he has started hitting hard. he's starting almost a mobile war room kind of strategy. he's got an infrastructure bill coming up. look at this. they are going to have to vote on an infrastructure bill which is really making them take a stand, and it will be paid for by 0.2% of taxpayers with a surtax on just 0.2% which means it will not affect most americans. is he doing enough? does he have to keep doing this to offset the spin and distortions they are going to try to hit him with? >> look, the quarterback is running the right plays and he's throwing the ball. what we have to do is be part of the team. one of the reasons why republicans are effect sieve

that they all go out and all put their message out, even if it's incorrect, but we have to tell the truth. we will see all of our troops out of iraq by the end of the year. that's a commitment made. that's a commitment kept. we turned the economy around. when you see 23, 24 months of consecutive job growth in our private sector and you see the president standing up today saying, look, it's not a bailout to help police officers and teachers and help people stay in their homes. these are not bailouts. these are americans. this is our commitment, and i think that the president's being effective, and we see that the republican congress has been able to work their way into single digits. i think they are at 7%, 8% approval rating. the american public will not be fooled as long as we as democrats don't lose our ability to speak truth. >> and if we go ahead and fight. i think that's what david is saying. you've got to fight and can't let it get in their bloodstream. david, when you fight like that, look at this -- in the last polling, the president has gone

up nine points in terms of americans that trust who will be able to create jobs, who they trust to create jobs, and the republicans have gone down six points. and even in the republicans, if you look at the polling numbers. republicans support infrastructure spending, 54% of republicans. 56% of republicans support taxing millionaires. 58% payroll tax cuts. 63% money for teachers and first responders. it's the democrats and the presidents to lose, but you can't get bluffed out of it if you allow them to spin it and let it get inside people's system before you fight back. >> you've got to, you know, win the policy, win the politics and win the narrative. you know, there's one sort of disadvantage that the president has now and other democrats which is that they kind of lost the fight over the first stimulus. as i noted earlier, that did

raise employment levels as much as actually had been predicted. it's just that the administration thought the starting point would be higher in terms of employment than it was, so there was still pretty profound unemployment afterwards, but the stimulus created about as many jobs as people thought. nonetheless, the republicans are out there for two years saying stimulus didn't work, it didn't work, it didn't work. >> and it did. >> democrats were not able to win that fight and now the republican play is to make this sound like the second stimulus. >> let me just say this, david. when muhammad ali was up on the ropes, he was -- they were saying he was taking alost hits. >> yeah. >> but the truth of the matter is that this will be the only president in our lifetime, he'll be able to go to every corner of this country and point to actual projects, actual people who went to work, things got done. in philadelphia alone, our transit system has done 200 -- >> we've got to go out there and -- >> i don't deny -- >> i've got to go.

congressman chaka fattah and david corn, i have to keep it moving but thank you both for joining us this evening. >> thank you. >> thank you, rev. >> ahead, rick per's economic plan is great if you're a billionaire. what about everyone else, governor? >> but i don't care about them. >> you don't care. that's a political strategy. plus, what a difference a few months make. willard mitt romney's flip-flop on the ohio union busting bill. >> those are the people of ohio. >> this is fin, and herman cain lights up with the web with this weird, weird new ad that everyone is talking about. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc. hey buddy, wattaya lookin' a-oooh. ♪

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can you hear that? it's rick perry's new campaign song. "free falling" by tom petty. his actions and words lately show just how bad it is. that's next. ♪ free falling we're america's natural gas and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us. ♪ ♪ ♪ when your chain of supply ♪ goes from here to shanghai, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ chips from here, boards from there ♪

♪ track it all through the air, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ clearing customs like that ♪ hurry up no time flat that's logistics. ♪ ♪ all new technology ups brings to me, ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ rick perry is so desperate to rescue his sinking campaign that he's created an economic plan that revives every ridiculous trickle down scheme to emerge from the gone over the last 30 years, starting with

taxes. >> cuts taxes and -- and it also cuts the spending. you can also wave good-bye to the capital gains tax as well as the tax on dividends. taxes will be cut. stimulate private spending through permanent tax relief. >> in fact, perry's new economic plan is just a checklist of recycled conservative talking points. a tax policy that benefits corporations and the rich. check. saying government is the source of all evil. check. gutting entitlements and shredding the safety net, a very big check. >> we must a stop to this entitlement culture that risks the financial sovereignty -- our solvency of this country. we are on the road to ruin paved

by state cerfdom, freeing our children from financial disaster requires the courage to reform the entitlements. >> in fact, rick perry is surprisingly candid about his own special brand of class warfare. >> for those that want to get into the class warfare and talk about oh, my goodness, there are going to be some folks here who make more money out of this or have access to more money, i'll let them do that. >> but for those at at top, it is hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions of dollars for them. >> but i don't about that. >> i don't care. i don't care. perry doesn't care that the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. at least he's being honest. joining me now is msnbc political analyst richard wolff and wayne slater, senior political writer for "the dallas morning news." thank you both for your time. >> thank you, reverend.

>> richard, rick perry says he doesn't care if the rich get richer. are you surprised by his honesty? >> no, i'm not surprised by his honesty. i've actually seen him interacting with wayne slater and seen him being brutally honest to wayne about all sorts of things, so i -- i can believe he's honest and direct. there's not a problem with that. i wonder if he really understands his plan. he was waving around that little postcard and saying to people, look, you can fill in your taxes on this little card. you don't need to have all those accountants and lawyers and everything do it for you. the problem is that the people who cannot afford the accountants are the very ones who should stay with the current tax system because under his plan they are going to get a big tax raise. the people who can afford the -- the accountants and lawyers and everything, they are going to be use the simple system because they are going to be paying a lot less. i'm not sure he understand what he's proposing and who it should appeal to. but at least he's honest about

that. >> wayne, is it that he may or may not understand, it or is he banking on the fact that we may not understand it because having an option of a flat tax or using the present code can only benefit the rich and other super rich and maybe he really does understand that, and maybe this may be economically unsound for the average american and morally reprehensible to people like me, but it might be the political move to make in a republican primary. >> reverend sharp theon, you're not a voter that rick perry is targeting right now. >> right. >> what the voters who might find this appealing, particularly very wealthy investors, business people, they will like this idea. this obviously brings him around, more important than that is the appeal to tea party activists, even some people who may in their own lives ultimately be hurt by this idea

but who want to attack washington, who want to attack status quo, who aren't happy with the tax system and want someone, possibly rick perry, who will stand up to barack obama and offer something bold, do something even if it's the wrong thing to do. >> now because he is shrinking. he's shrinking by the day. look at the fact that with the cbs/"new york times" poll from september to october, he went down 17 points. you can't ask a man dropping 17 points in a month not to try any and everything, wayne, and you know that he has been many things, but one of them is not a guy that just goes off into the sunset without trying everything. >> absolutely. that's not the texas way. you go after something. you're right. he wanted to do three things at beginning of this campaign, one, raise a lot of money, he did. one, do well in the debates. he didn't, and the third, offer

up some policy initiatives that appeal to voters that he needs, the especially anti-romney voters or any but romney voters that he needs in the early nominating states of iowa, south carolina and florida, and that's what he's tried to do here with this policy initiative. all the people who are going to beat up on this the most are voters he doesn't want to appeal to right now anyway. the voters who he might -- who might find it appealing in concept to talk about a flat tax, something similar, are the same voters who he wants to round up and vote for him. many of those, frankly, are tea party activists, and many of those we've seen from studies are christian conservatives, so he has a retooled campaign that's aimed at a particular voting constituency that also includes birthers and birchers and secessionist and militia types, but mostly the right wing of the republican party. they think that inside the perry

team that the mathematics is there, that the numbers are there, that if it's ultimately romney and not romney, perry could resurrect this thing. >> well, you've got now with today with the option to keep things as they are, letting the taxpayer decide or take the 20% flat, so we've got on one side of the anti-romney 9-9-9, and on the other side it's 20 or nothing. unbelievable. neither one of them make sense for working class and middle class people, but richard, let me go back to you. one of the things that i saw was very interesting is it's clear as wayne says, this is about taking on romney. did you know that governor perry actually called romney a fat cat. listen to this. >> in 1996 when your adviser steve forbes was running on a flat tax, mitt romney said it was a tax cut for fat cats.

if he says that about your plan, what would you say to him? >> i would say he ought to go look in the mero i guess. i consider him to be a fat cat. >> whoa! that's a little edgy, don't you think, a little name-calling? mean, i ran in '04. we didn't call the rich guys fat cats. we knew we'd have to unite at end. isn't that a little edgy there, richard? >> i cannot believe republicans would engage in this kind of class warfare. i mean, they are just trying to divide this country. look, rick perry is going to do much worse than this, and no matter how he did in the debates or how he muffles his speeches, he's not going to screw up his ads. his ads are going to go right at mitt romney. i agree with wayne. the votes, the anti-romney votes are clearly much bigger than the pro-romney votes there. if he can pull stuff away from cain, if he can land these punches, either he gets the nomination or he takes romney down with him, so it's going to be critical. the question is whether romney now tries to fudge things on the flat tax and try and appeal to

everyone because that would be romney's classic move. >> well, i hope they all come together and unite when it's over, but willard, i told you to get him on that rock. he called you a fat cat. richard wolffe, wayne slater, thank you. ahead, america, this is not a joke. pat robertson says the republican party has gotten too extreme. wow, pat robertson. chris christie gives to the rich and cuts the first responders. no wonder republicans begged him to run. and, folks, there's weird and then there's this herman cain ad. stay with us. in america, we believe in a future

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chris christie's misplaced priorities would have made him a perfect candidate in today's gop. no wonder so many republicans were heartbroken when he took a pass on the presidential race. when christie announced he wasn't running, he said he wanted to stick with the job he had. >> that's a promise i made to the people of this state when i took office 20 months ago, to fix a broken new jersey, and when i look at what we've accomplished so far, i'm proud but i know we're not nearly done. >> christie's proud and not nearly done slashing aid to cities and towns.

local reports say 4,000 new jersey police officers have lost their jobs in the last two years, 4,000. things are so stretched thin in newark that police don't even respond to car accidents anymore unless there are injuries. the paterson narcotics squad was cut in half and little egg, new jersey, had to eliminate its drug and traffic units and while towns and cities are cutting back, there's one group christie hasn't asked to sacrifice. he vetoed taxes on millionaires this year and last year which would have offset cuts across the state. governor christie, did you think we wouldn't notice your misplaced priorities? nice try, but we got you. you got a weather balloon with points? yes, i did. [ man ] points i could use for just about anything. ♪ keep on going in this direction. take this bridge over here. there it is.

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what happens to politicians who push unpopular agendas? it's not a trick question. to answer, they become unpopular, and nobody knows that better than former fox news host and current ohio governor john kasich. when he first took office in january, his disapproval rating was 22%. today 52% of ohioans disapprove of the job he's doing. what has happened since then, senate bill five. that's the union-busting bill he rammed through despite widespread opposition. that ban strikes and limits collective bargaining and forces public employees to pay more for their benefits but the people of ohio vow to fight back. they collected 1.3 million petition signatures, blocking the law from going into effect and putting issue two on the ballot. a new poll today shows ohioans

want to repeal the law by a 25% margin. that's up 13-point margin just last month. reporters asked kasich to weigh in on those poll results today. >> you know, it's -- we're going to keep working. we think this is the right thing to create an environment for cities to -- to be able to be successful, giving them the tools. we're making the case. we'll make it all the way up to election day and we'll see how it comes out. >> you don't typically comment on polls, but is this one disheartening? >> hey, do i seem disheartened? i mean, i'm doing my job. >> governor kasich, you may be doing your job, but with 52% disapproval, maybe you ought to focus on doing a good job. joining me now one of the biggest fighters for the middle class, former ohio governor ted strickland. governor, welcome. >> reverend al, good to be with you. >> good to be with you. glad to have you here. what is going through governor kasich's mind today, do you

think? >> who knows. the fact is that the people of ohio, al, have their eyes open, and they know who the enemy is now, and the enemy is this administrati administration, firing fire fighters, police officers, nurses, teachers. i mean, the people of ohio. i am so proud of them. 1.3 million of them signed the petition. >> and they didn't need that many signatures. >> they only need a little over 300,000. >> that's right. >> they got 1.3 million, and i think that's an indication that ohio, you know, ohio is sort of a common sense state, and we don't take to radical and reckless ideas or radical and reckless leadership, and that's what we've gotten from this governor and from this new administration. >> now, i've been out there twice in the last month, and i am very impressed with the energy across all religious racial lines to say wait a minute, this isn't fair. are they going to win this vote though?

are they going to be able to repeal this? >> as you said, the poll that came out today says that 57% are opposed to -- to senate bill five. 32% are in favor of it, and i think that's because we have a coalition of people coming together in ohio as never before. many from the community of faith, the labor unions, the building trades, teachers, fire fighters, just ordinary citizens, social service folks. we've got a coalition in ohio right now unlike any that i've ever seen, and i think it will help us win on november the 8th, but i also think that it will carry us over into 2012 so that we can re-elect senator sherrod brown and return president obama to the white house. ohio is right in the middle of this fight, and i'm proud of us. >> now, you know, governor, when you can always tell what's going on is by looking at the thermometer, you know. martin luther king used to say there are two types of leaders,

thermostats and thermometers. thermosters go which ever way the weather is. >> that's right. >> well, the national thermometer, mitt romney, who goes whether it's hot or cold, wherever the poll is, that's where he's at. in june he was in ohio, and he took this stand. let me show you. he said, my friends in ohio are fighting to defend crucial reforms that the state has put in place to limit the power of union bosses and keep taxes low. i stand with john r. kasich and the hoe head leaders as they take on the important fight to get control of government spending. >> that's not today. >> that's what he said in june. but today, today willard goes back, and let me show you what willard said. >> it's great to be here in ohio today. i'm not -- i'm not speaking about the -- about the particular ballot issues. those are up to the people of ohio, but i certainly support

the effort of the governor to reign in the scale of government, so i'm not terribly familiar with the two ballot initiatives, but i'm certainly supportive of the republican party's efforts. >> union bosses in june, reform them with kasich, today i don't know much about it, but i don't know, i mean, it shows that even he can see that the temperature has changed. >> that's right. mitt romney is the ultimate flip-flopper. this is a man when i believe has no real core principles. he's going to go where the wind blows, and quite frankly, you know, this was an embarrassment to the ohio democrat or the ohio republican party and to governor kasich. they bring him in. they take him to a place where phone banking was being done in support of issue two, and then he's asked do you support issue two, and he is neutral apparently at best. so this is the ultimate flip-flop, but, you know, we've seen this from mitt romney from the time he first entered

politics. you never know where this man is going to be from one day to the next, and that's why the american people, and even his own party, reverend al, are not willing to endorse him. that's why he works hard. he's out there campaigning, and 25, 26, 27% say they are for him among the republican party, and, you know, the people of this country can tolerate a whole lot, but they will not tolerate a person that is here one day and somewhere else the next. >> we believe in standing for something. >> that's right. >> and governor kasich on this crucial time with the polls going against him needed a stand-up guy to come to hoe home. mitt romney came today, and he still needs a stand-up guy to come because he certainly didn't stand with him. let me ask you a question. >> okay. >> are you going to run against kasich again? >> i don't know, reverend al, but you said on your show that you were in ohio and people were saying, run, ted, run. that's caused me a lot of

trouble. i want you to know that. everyone is reminding me of that. let me say this. we're in the fight of our lives right now, november 2011 and then we'll have another big fight in ohio in 2012. we've got to re-elect the president and we've got to send sherrod brown back to the senate. the future will take care of itself, but i enjoy this fight because we're fighting for the right things, and the people of ohio are coming together. i care about my state. i care about the people in my state, and i'm glad they are standing up for themselves. >> well, i didn't mean to get you in trouble, but i had a little trouble, too, because i was in there twice, and a guy stopped me and said i was wrong to say they were saying run, ted, run, because he said ted could be anybody. they were saying run ted strickland, run. they were specific. thank you for your time. >> thank you, reverend al. >> ahead, 80% of republicans are having commitment issues. at some point they will have to set. [ male announcer ] to the 5:00 a.m. scholar.

the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic. for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu.

welcome back to "politics nation." gop 2012 candidates are making a whole lot of noise on the campaign trail and in the debates, but it's not doing them

much good. 80% of republicans say they are not fully committed to any of the candidates yet, 80%. that's not good news, guys. all that pandering to the tea party and the extreme right is not working, and now gop elites are worried the party is heading into a mitt romney disaster. >> as more and more republicans come to the conclusion that the republican party has found its michael dukakis, a technocratic massachusetts governor running on competence, not ideology. >> michael dukakis. and republicans, here's a tip. when ultraconservative pat robertson says you're too extreme, you've got a big problem. >> those people in the republican primary have got to lay off of this stuff. they are forcing their leaders, the front-runners into positions that will mean they lose the general election. you'll appeal to the narrow

base, and they will applaud the daylights out of what you're saying, and then you hit the general election and then they say no way. >> joining me now is a political columnist for salon.com and erin mcpike, a reporter for "real clear politics." >> steve, when pat robertson says these candidates are try extreme, you know things have gotten bad. take a look at how over the top they have gone. herman cain's campaign has just released a new ad. hold on to the table and check this out. >> we've run a campaign like nobody's ever seen, but then america's never seen a candidate like herman cain. we need you to get involved because together we can do this. we can take this country back. ♪ i am america, one voice united

we stand ♪ ♪ i am america >> it's bad enough what you see, but it happens to be his campaign manager. >> yeah. >> that's doing the ad, the guy with the cigarette and the guy that is talking is his actual campaign manager. >> right. >> so i'm an american, i'm watching this, steve and erin, i'm seeing the guy smoking leaning up against the wall is going to be the chief of staff in the white house, and the guy doing this is going to be the president. >> and there's the guy who right now is in first place in most of the republican polls that are being taken, herman cain is running in first right now, and i think, you know, when you see that number you showed earlier, the 80% who aren't ready to make up their minds and when you talked in the previous segment with mitt romney out in ohio today where he backed off this position that everybody in the tea party would love him to

take, you know, on the union bill out in ohio because he know it's sort of poison in the general election. that's why 80% won't make up their mind because romney is the guy they know they have to go with in the end. cain is probably the main alternative and he's putting out videos like that. romney still won't come around on all the other issues. you will have the 80% that won't say yes to him but don't have any other options. >> erin, president obama is on jay leno tonight, and we have some of the footage, and jay leno raised to him about the republican field at the debate. listen to what he said. >> have you been watching the gop debates? >> i'm going to wait until everybody is voted off the island. >> really. >> once they narrow it down to one or two, i'll start paying attention. >> wait until everyone is voted off the island. maybe he saw the cain campaign ad before he went on, erin.

>> maybe so. you know, that -- that specific cain web video, i would say to you that they probably thought they had to do that because one of the big criticisms about herman cain right now is that people think he doesn't have any campaign infrastructure, so by this web video they are putting at least a face and showing who his campaign manager is. a little bit crazy, yes, but that's why they have to do it because people think that there's no -- there's no infrastructure. now, as far as the field is concerned, and that ad, you have all the republicans who decided not to run, john thune, haley barbour and mitch daniels, relative likeable conservatives and they are not in the race so they have to choose between mitt romney, a guy who they don't like and a guy they don't think is conservative enough and on the other end of the spectrum, rick perry and herman cain.

there's no one really in the middle that's a mainline conservative that's well liked. >> when you look at the latest polls that just came out, the cbs, "new york times" poll. it has cain at 25%, romney 21%, gingrich 10%, paul 8%, perry down to 6%. now, the disturbing thing, if i'm romney, is that lets look at romney's support since june. he in june at 24.9%, july, 22.3%, august, 18.9%, september, 21.6%. october, 24.9%. this guy can't catch fire. i mean, he's like just right there, can't go up, goes a little down. can't go up. how can this guy win when almost 80% of his party consistently wants somebody else? >> i say -- i think he'd be in big trouble if there was somebody else or if there was a clear sort of consensus somebody

else in this race but the most interesting thing that stands out at me about that poll, romney at 21%, gingrich at 10% and cain at 25%. they are backing candidates without campaign infrastructure. i believe herman cain and newt gingrich are really in this race to become celebrities, to get talk shows and sell books, more than they are to win the presidency so if that's the competition for romney hand these are the guys doing well in polls. okay, you get to iowa, maybe it's split up between cain and gingrich and santorum and bachmann. 35% could win it against this crowd. >> erin, you're nodding. you think that mr. gingrich and mr. cain are not really running to be president? >> for gingrich it's always been a matter of really bringing his stature back and showing himself to be an idea's man and having some sort of an impact on the race. he looked at running in 2008. ultimately decided against it. for herman cain, we're not sure.

now that the guy is leading the field, maybe he is serious, but -- but we don't know. i think it is true that probably the real alternative to mitt romney is rick perry. rick perry and mitt romney are the only two candidates who are consistently putting out press releases, announcing the support that they have and a bunch of other states beyond just the early nominating states, and they are the two candidates who have real long-term campaign infrastructures, so i -- i think there you have it, that it's really going to come down at the end to rick perry and mitt romania any despite herman cain's surge. >> i don't think you should underestimate creativity because as soon as we get off tonight, steve, i'm running to my producers. i have an idea. we're going to get a guy. i'm going to smoke a cigarette and say watch "politics nation." you think that will help me, erin? erin mcpike and steve kornacki,

thank both of you. i'm going to do my herman cain. let's see how it helps to sell. >> thank you. >> rick perry and the birther movement. why it's not funny. that's next. toothpaste is the wrong thing to use on a denture, it could be very abrasive. if the surface gets abraded, it's just the environment that bacteria likes to nestle into and they can cause the odor. your denture needs to be cleaned gently on a daily basis. i like to recommend polident, it kills the bacteria without causing any abrasion.

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last week rick perry met with birther king donald trump, and the two apparently decide the the birther issue was still relevant. here's what perry told cnbc. >> it's a good issue to keep alive, you know. donald's got to have some fun. >> are you saying that your comments about that are kind of a joke, or do you seriously have an unresolved question that donald trump has about this? >> i don't have a clue about where the president and what this birth certificate says, but it's also a great distraction. >> seriously, governor perry. we put this to rest ages ago, remember? >> we do not have time for this

kind of silliness. we've got better stuff to do. i've got better stuff to do. we've got big problems to solve, and i'm confident we can solve them, but we'll have to focus on them. not on this. >> the thing is, governor perry, here's why this isn't a joke. today a birther and oath keeper named darren huff was convicted of trying to take over a tennessee courthouse last year and arrest officials who accepted barack obama as a legitimate president. huff brought a colt .45 and an ak-47 to the scene. thankfully no one was hurt. he now faces up to five years in prison. let us deal with the issues. let's quit playing and biting the bait for simple things calling ourselves just poking at the president when we have people out there that are sick and/