time fur one quick e-mail. john, what are they saying? >> we've got ken saying i'm making you an honorary jamaican. you're just missing reggae. >> i'm often confused for a jamaican. perhaps because i so sympathize with the elements of your wonderful culture. "morning joe" right now. my campaign was made aware that this story might break ten

days ago, but we made a conscious decision not to go chasing two anonymous sources and not knowing what the rest of the story -- >> shouldn't you have been -- if you were made aware ten days ago, shouldn't you have gone over with your attorneys, formulated a response, they calç it a rapid response team, all campaigns have it, so when it did get public, you calmly went over and said, these are the facts. you seem to be caught somewhat off guard. shouldn't you have had that all ready to go? >> we p didn't have all of that, bill. what happened was when questions got asked, some of them i didn't anticipate, and i was trying to remember some of those facts in the middle of a very busy day. >> good morning, it's wednesday, november 2nd. and with us on the set, msnbc

political analyst michael steele. and political writer for the "huffington post" sam stein, and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. and we have the great willie geist up in new york. and of course, all of washington, d.c. we got here last night, willie. and all of washington, d.c. is obviously the story splashed across the front pages, not just here, but all over america, and everybody's talking about one thing, alabama lsu. seriously. >> it's a big deal. >> it's not a big deal, it's a huge deal. willie, quick question for you. if alabama or lsu played the washington redskins, what would the line be? >> i think they'd hang in for a quarter or so. >> the redskins. >> no, i think the redskins would hang in for a quarter or two also, but alabama would win. >> you're talking about my burgundy and gold. >> is it a bad sign -- i'm curious, is it a bad sign if

somebody's running for president of the united states doesn't know that china's had nuclear weapons for 50 years? >> a red flag for some voters, ç yes. >> could you imagine -- we're going to play a clip. herman cain actually and everybody's focused on the sexual harassment charges and the woman wants to talk -- and we're going to get to that in a second. but it seems to me, willie, it's far more disturbing that a guy who wants to be commander in chief -- again, far more disturbing now from what we know. obviously if he sexually harassed two women, that's disturbing. but the fact that the guy wants to be commander in chief does not know -- and we know he'll backtrack today because once again he's showing his ignorance in foreign policy, and then he backtracks. he didn't know when he was on pbs that china had nuclear wes. weapons. could you imagine if sarah palin

had made this sort of mistake? and why is it that people like sarah palin get absolutely destroyed -- as most democratic candidates would -- and yet herman cain makes these mistakes one day after another and keeps sailing through? >> and there seems to be a sort of point of pride for him. when he talked about right of return and those things. he said i don't need to know those things, i'll have advisers. it seems to be an odd source of pride for him that he's not familiar with the world around him. >> it really is amazing. and these are some of the main -- the most important issues. andrea mitchell, right of return, whether÷]i china has nuclear weapons or not, they've been in the club since '64. they're not pakistan. they didn't sneak it in. >> there's a reason kissinger went over there in '72.

i do view china as a potential military threat to the united states. >> and what could you do as president to head that off? >> my china strategy is quite simply outgrow china. i plan to get away from making cutting our defense a priority and make investing in our military capability a priority. going back to my statement peace through strength and clarity. they've indicated they're trying to develop nuclear capability and they want to develop more aircraft carriers like we have. so yes, we have to consider them a military threat. >> they've indicated they're trying to develop nuclear technology. i didn't see a smile on his face. so when he comes out and says it's a joke -- >> peace through strength, though. slogans. >> slogan's great. but that is stunning. that too would seem to be a disqualifier, but herman cain -- and the reason we're bringing -- we're not picking on herman cain. we'd be saying this about any

democrat or republican at the top of the field who did not know that nuclear wes have been in the hands of the chinese for 50 years. >> he is at the top of the field in some polls and certainly the intensity factor out in iowa in the caucus poll where he really is lapping mitt romney in terms of caucus goers. it says something about how the whole campaign has evolved, about us in the media. and also, obviously the domestic focus. the appropriate domestic focus on our economy at the same time there are certain, you know basic foreign policy credentials you've got to have if you're going to be president. >> and yet, if you look at the "washington post" today, iowa supporters rallying around him. he's one point behind mitt romney in a florida poll we're going to be showing in a minute. he is right now, you would have to put him as the front-runner for the gop. >> no doubt about çthat. >> he is woefully ill prepared to be commander in chief. >> i think what herman cain

needs to do right now is step off the media stage. i think he needs to hunker down with a core team of advisers to get the messaging right, to get boned up on what will now be serious questions on foreign policy. there's a foreign policy debate coming up soon. there's things he needs to start -- >> you're saying he needs to start doing it, but it's not hurting him in the polls. >> it's not hurting him in the polls, but everything has a shelf life. so it's not just about at this point your base who is going to be with you in iowa. it's about what happens after that when the broader electorate is looking at you and considering you for the presidency of the united states. you want to make sure you have a good conversation with them, not with just the folks rallying around you because you're being attacked by the liberal media. but more importantly, because you're saying things that resinate beyond the base. and right now that resonance is not clicking with a lot of people. >> that sort of is a disturbing thing to say. we are saying he should take

some time and learn these issues so he can cover. we want to select a presidential candidate who comes into this process with that knowledge already intact. we don't want someone -- >> it's not the case for everybody who walks into this -- >> i would like to assume for an election to the presidency, we would -- the process would produce people who do have that knowledge. >> but sam, he doesn't have that knowledge. >> but the solution is not to take some time and go off and study the issues. >> the solution is get off the presidential trail and come back when you're ready. >> it does seem like here is a man who went on this presidential quest in large part to sell books and has found himself as a çfront-runner and very, you know, someone who has a lot of enthusiasm behind him in iowa. and you know, we need to really look at the primary processes that this could happen. it's a little troubling. >> think about this. andrea, you were reporting throughout the 2008 campaign about sarah palin and sarah palin, remember, she had that

charlie gibson interview. she talked about the bush doctrine. and there was a big debate about whether she knew what the bush doctrine was. was she ignorant about what the bush doctrine was? a big debate, many people wrote articles. saying she was too dumb, basically, to be vice president. too ignorant. but she looks like avril hareman compared to herman cain. and i mean that. sarah palin could absolutely take down herman cain in a foreign policy jeopardy contest right now. and yet, for some reason, herman cain is not being held to the same tough standard as sarah palin. forget democrats and republicans. >> you're right. >> sarah palin would have been massacred by the national media. and i just don't know why herman cain is getting a free walk, not only by the national media, but republicans, the republican

base. why? >> he's been very engaging. he's got a great personality. >> so does sarah palin. >> so does sarah palin, granted. but yeah, he's getting a pass. and the questions aren't being asked. and maybe it is because 9-9-9 as simplistic as it is was a great slogan, it was a great bumper sticker for people hungry for some economic solution. and people haven't been focused on -- >> i think andrea's rightç the. i think the focus has been on the economy. there has not been the national discussion on international affairs, foreign affairs that would cause people to focus their view on actually what he's saying and does he really understand the intricacies here? that's a big part of it. >> isn't part of it sort of in the back of everyone's mind, we think this guy's going to go away at some point, these poll numbers are soft and he will no longer be the front-runner in iowa. >> i wouldn't count on that at this point. >> listen --

>> at this point -- at this point maybe not. but for the past couple of weeks, we've been looking at this rise and been like, well, there's really not much there. everyone else has fallen back to earth, so will herman cain, what's the point of criticizing the man? but now it's getting more serious. >> i've got to say, willie geist, day in and day out, the longer herman cain's in first place, the subtext of this story is mitt romney. is the fact that the conservative base does not trust mitt romney. i think what he did last week in ohio, i will say it again and i will say it again because it resinated with the conservative base. his flip-flop on whether he was going to support john kasik or not in the union reforms are "anti-union legislation" is devastating for mitt romney. and if you look at this florida poll, mitt romney was supposed to win florida back in 2008.

the latest university poll shows herman cain and mitt romney in a statistical tie in the state of florida and everybody else, way back, newt gingrich, rick perry, ronç paul. the polls also show many other things. but barack obama's approval rating in florida right now, willie, is at 41%. this is a state that would be so easy for the republican party to take. but right now, the party -- the party's in search of itself. it does not have a conservative to get behind that can win the general election. isn't that what the rises and falls and fluctuations of the conservative candidates really means? >> to your point, if you look inside those state-by-state polls among self-identified conservatives, they're going for herman cain. if you look at florida, look at iowa, the state of texas where herman cain's polling neck and

neck with perry in the state where he's governor. conservatives are going for herman cain in a way they're certainly not going for mitt romney. that's a problem he'll have to address. and the longer herman cain stays around, the more they'll have to worry about herman cain. even the romney campaign sat back and said this guy's going to go away, he's going to implode, but he hasn't done it, and he's still on top of the polls. >> he is. and at the end of the day, we've been talking about this for a couple of days, this is a searing indictment of romney. conservatives don't trust him. and they never will. >> he's got a drag within the conservative community. they do not have that love for him that they've shown others. if herman cain's balloon begins to deflate, is there someone there to replace -- >> who's that? >> newt gingrich or someone like that, i don't know. but at some point, there's got to be a coming of the head between this relationship between the mitt romney world

and the conservative world because iow@ç is two months out and the voting will start, and that's when the organization on the ground and the money matters and all of those things come to play. >> i'm hearing something remarkable. i'm hearing conservatives, conservatives starting to say, you know what? i would rather lose to barack obama -- i would rather give him four more years than elect mitt romney and have him spend money like george bush and have another republican who promises to be conservative go liberal. conservative leaders this week -- it's like a light switch has come on and they say you know what? fine. we would rather lose -- >> well, you know what was telling for me was the column on sunday which just eviscerated mitt romney. >> george will has made that decision. george will like a lot of other conservative leaders, oh, rick perry, he may not be qualified

to be president, but he would rather support rick perry than have mitt romney. >> so if cain imimplodes, who i the next conservative? could it be newt gingrich? i would suggest he has so many flaws from his record, that would be a hard sell. is there a scenario? and you know the rules far better than anyone, michael. under these new rules, is there some sort of scenario where at the end of the day there could be a brokered convention -- but jeb bush come into it or someone else at the end of the day? >> they have a scenario where -- that situation is that the pressure would be on to really gravitate to one of those folks, to have a fourth person or third person come out of the blue and get the nomination wouldç just upheave the whole thing. because then you're having a conversation about a jeb bush

coming in in august to run for the presidency in november. >> not a bad deal. >> not a bad -- >> if you're jeb bush. not a bad deal. and let me tell you something -- the rejoice -- >> three debates. >> the rejoice that you would hear would be from conservatives who would absolutely -- >> jeb bush would be -- >> would love to have jeb bush in there. but i don't know that's going to happen. but you look newt gingrich. newt is showing an upsurge. and i don't even think it's newt's past, but he's been so e radd erratic in this campaign. if he made the decision to play the grown-up he's been in the past at critical times, he'd be doing much better. >> he came out and stumbled. but he has managed to be consistent and to show himself capable of standing in there and sort of -- >> and he's living off the land and doing it without the staff. >> guess who lived off the land four years ago?

john mccain. >> john mccain. >> after his campaign imploded. sam stein, another guy, ron paul, ron sits there stubbornly with 8%, 9%, 10%. we may see more protest votes going to ron paul who may inch up there, as well. >> and ron paul has sort of had that corner of the party for a while now. and it's basically stayed around 10% to 12% like you said. we talked a little bit off set about what role huntsman could play in seizing up some of that anti-romney sentiment. and i'm going to agree with you, if he's going to do it, he has to present himself differently than he has been so çfar, whic is the moderate in the field. he's defined himself by what he is against. and i think you're starting to see his advisers present him again as the only true conservative alternative. and huntsman's been taking some of the more sharper jabs. and you get a sense that he realizes his opportunity is right now.

>> no doubt about it. willie? >> joe, you've got to help me understand what you're hearing from your conservative friends. they would rather see -- because we heard this with john mccain four years ago. they would rather see barack obama, the very face of evil for conservatives, the man they say has ruined the country over the last four years. they'd rather see him in the white house for four more years than mitt romney just to make a point? >> and that's what's so fascinating about it. you usually see this happening after a party's been in power for 8, 12 years, and at that point, a party will be reckless. but usually four years after bill clinton, republicans would've taken anybody. they ended up with dole and lost. but i'm starting to hear it. you read through the lines in the george will column this week. but, yes. at this point they are so concerned about getting behind mitt romney and watching this guy get elected and then do

whatever it takes to chart a middle path, and yes, a lot of conservatives -- >> is part of that(m+]=/oóñi be realize they will likely have the house of representatives still and they feel like they have -- >> no, listen, this is a guy, mitt romney, who was pro choice and then pro life, pro gun control, then pro second amendment. he's a guy that was -- >> waffled on the kasik battle. >> the amendment.ç this is a guy who developed a program that was -- and he can say what he wants to say, but this is what the conservative base believes and the obama people believe. that he gave the obama administration the blueprint for obama care which is enemy number one for any conservative activist i know. so they sit there and think, okay, we're going to get behind him now? you can see it in the polls week in and week out. >> i think you're noticing between the establishment of the

gop and the base. the base wants obama out, and so they will rally because it's important. they're not going to sit here and say we can test the next four years -- that's not going to happen. >> the base doesn't like romney. >> they don't like him, but he is a better solution to what our problems are right now than the president is any day period. >> you know, i -- andrea, you've known me for a long time, but you know i hate to say i told you so. >> you hate that. i've never heard you say that. >> but when everybody was saying -- you know, a year ago everybody was saying, there's going to be a crazy right-wing candidate for president, no, we are repeating exactly what happened between '92 and '96. you had a sharp turn to the right in the midterms, and then what happened? the party came back and nominated bob dole. and we are nominating bob dole

in 2012 if mitt romney wins. >> precisely because -- >> and by the way, i love bob. >> but with 30% of independents, there is a calculation that he is the toughest candidate against barack obama in a general election. >> mitt romney can win in november of next year. >> all çright. well, we'll see. with the president 41%. in florida, wow. coming up next, we've got politi politico. and also richard shelby will join us. we're going to talk about the bank of america news. bank of america back down. twitter takes on bank of america and wins. oh, my gosh. also, we'll talk about alabama. also, author and historian niall ferguson. eugene robinson, and chris matthews is out with a great book about jfk. we'll talk to him. bill karins has a check on the forecast. can you believe still over 500,000 people waiting for their power to turn back on?

this is day five of the outages and peoples' patience is wearing thin. today's a beautiful day, at least the weather's cooperating for the crews getting lights back on. temperatures 50s near 60, and connecticut you look nice through the upcoming weekend. no bad weather coming this way. so hopefully everybody by the weekend can get the lights on. big storm out there in the rockies. heavy snow for cheyenne to denver. that's the travel trouble spot today, especially to the south and west of denver. everyone else in the country, mostly a beautiful day. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. . control pretty quickly. so i like control in the rest of my life... especially my finances. that's why i have slate, with blueprint. i can create my own plan to pay down large purchases faster...

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some anonymous ladies have stirred up a controversy with respect to these false claims of sexual harassment. >> yes, these ladies are the

real harassers, hiding behind their anonymity just because they were paid a settlement to leave their jobs in exchange for their silence. and if you don't talk, clearly you're lying, but cain is allowed to speak, therefore he is telling the truth. it's a classic case of he said/she's legally prohibited from saying. still not convinced? then herman cain has a question for you. >> i'm trying to -- have you ever been accused of sexual harassment? >> open and shut. who hasn't been accused of sexual harassment? okay. show of hands. show of hands. ladies, raise both hands, now shake it up.ç >> let's take a look at the morning papers. here's one from our parade of papers, the houston chronicle, an analysis by that paper finds that so far most of the big donors who fueled george w. bush's campaigns in 2000 and

2004 are putting their money on mitt romney instead of rick perry. federal election data through september shows that two members of bush 43's immediate family have donated to romney, and none to the current texas governor. >> "washington post" says bowles offered a blunt warning yesterday to the 12 members of the debt reduction super committee. >> i know most of you, i've worked closely with you on both sides of the aisle. i have great respect for each of you individually. but collectively, i'm worried you're going to fail. fail the country. >> and that brings us to the top story in the politico playbook. with us now the chief correspondent for politico, mike allen. >> good morning.

>> tough talk from bowles. what was the message they were sending to the group that now has just three weeks to come up with the $1.5 trillion in cuts? >> they were saying don't blow it, don't miss another golden opportunity. willie, i'm getting more bullish on the supercommittee. i think this is an example of the kind of pressure and reward that these members are going to feel of getting something done. i thinkç a real sign was when senator patty murray said that everything was on the table, even some of these social security cuts that they're talking about. things that democrats normally wouldn't go for. i think what we're seeing here is a dynamic taking over within the committee. these are all long-time public servants who don't want to fail. don't want to be labeled a failure by bowles. so a deal's going to come together on the last weekend right before they've as it

always does. but i can see them moving the ball. >> and mr. bowles put out the proposal in his plan yesterday of raising the eligibility age for medicare. we'll see if the supercommittee's bold enough to do that. what's the next step after november 23rd? >> well, there's -- the supercommittee legislation lets it go straight to the floor. so it doesn't have to wind through the committee process, get watered down. and this is where if the supercommittee is close, this is where i can see the leadership giving them an extension. extending that special status for their legislation so it can be acted on quickly. we saw speaker boehner the other day appearing with the senate republican leader also saying this is personal, he said. comparing it to welfare reform legislation that president clinton achieved. so the leaders have a stake in it, the supercommittee members have a stake in it. this looks like progress. >> how is this for motivation?

the quote from simpson yesterday to the supercommittee. you don't need charts, if you spend more than you earn, you lose your butt, if you spend a buck and borrow 42 cents of it, you've got to be stupid, the word of alan simpson. >> plain english. >> thanks so much. coming up, a messy legal battle could pe over finally in los angeles. where the dodgers now, for sale. plus, former secretary of state condoleezza rice goes on the "daily show" and gives incredible detail what she learned about moammar gadhafi's obsession with her including the song he wrote for her. >> and all of a sudden he said i have this video for you. and i thought, uh-oh, what is this? the employee of the month isss...

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well, it looks like some good news for dodgers fans who have been dragged through a season-long soap opera with their owner. frank mccourt has finally agreed to sell the team following month was of legal wrangling. mccourt spent the year involved in a wildly expensive divorce with his wife jamie that threatened the health of that storied franchise.

mccourt fought to hold on to the team. even filing for bankruptcy to prevent major league baseball from stepping in. but the commissioner sent in a monitor to watch the team this year after mccourt tried to sell the future media rights to cover costs in his own divorce. fans rightly blame mccourt for the dodgers' lackluster 2011 season. attendance was way, way down with the team, all but giving away ticket packages. they hope to have a new owner in place by next year's opening day in a few months, joe. >> ó story. one of baseball's most proud franchises. the dodgers, what those fans have had to go through over the past couple of years has been horrific. any ideas on who's going to replace mccourt? >> there's names out there, including mark cuban's name. there was talk about him with the cubs, he showed a little interest in the mets, perhaps. so look for his name.

because when this team went to bankruptcy a few months ago, he jumped in as a potential buyer. i would keep your eye on mark cuban, he wants to get in the baseball game for sure. this is great news for fans. that stadium was half empty every night. they had the security problem, of course, where the fan was beaten. that behind them, get this ownership out there and turn it around in l.a. >> it's l.a. dodgers. you don't get more iconic than that. it's sort of like a clean version of the yankees, andrea. >> i knew that was coming. >> yeah. it's like the new york yankees with a little class. what else is going on? >> by the way. by the way -- if mark cuban buys the team, we have no hope in terms of spending. the new york yankees will look like a little league team. >> cuban will put in. >> the major league baseball as you know, willie, is a closed club. i would be surprised if they let mark close to the dodgers.

>> i don't think they want to. but he'll fight to get in. a little basketball news or what passes for basketball news during the lockout, anyway. chris paul, the superstar guard for the hornets has got some time off, let's be honest. what did he do? he played the feud with his family. watch this. >> boy, we gotç it going for y today. it's the paul family. playing against the o'hara family. so let's get it on. give me chris, give me amy, let's go. >> good luck to you. >> guys, here we go. we've got the top six answers on the board. name something that might get broken if a wife catches her husband cheating. >> chris? >> vase. >> a vase. >> amy? >> his car. >> oh car.

>> his car. >> his car. >> yeah! >> name something a man might carry in his pocket he wouldn't want anyone to see. >> his wallet. his wallet. >> wallet. don't count our money. >> name something the man might not want the woman to know he's wearing. >> musk, you don't want her to know that you stink. >> you don't want her to know you've got on musk. >> musk. musk. now, it's important -- steve harvey, the host there finally did identify chris paul as the basketball player. but it's important to point out, this wasn't like nba week on the feud. chris paul and his family tried out for the show like anybody else. they called the hot line, went through an audition, and the executive producer of "the feud" quoted as saying, she has no clue who chris paul is. he had free time, so he wanted

to play "the feud." >> that is amazing, willie. but let's go back to some hard sports news. do you have anyç stories about hockey in sweden in honor of the new ambassador? >> yes, in honor of ambassador brzezinski. score a goal and hug a guy on the other team. that's what he's going to do. he got a little excited and hugged the first guy he saw. unfortunately, he was wearing the other color jersey. he popped him right in the chops. he skated away. part of the game. okay. joe -- joe, one other thing on the dodgers i should have mentioned, another group that would involve magic johnson, as well. that would be great for the city. >> no doubt about it. must-read opinion pages, we'll be right back. uh, i'm in a timeout because apparently

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hey, welcome back to "morning joe." it's time for mika's must-read op-eds. mika will be here soon. she's just yachting in from the south of france. but she did send them in over cable. her first selection, "cain not able." it's not the scandal that kills you, it's the cover-up. herman cain has added a corollary. it's not the cover-up that kills you, it's the cascade of ma larky that spills out when you try to cover up the cover-up. sure the dalliance with the grandfather, gospel singer, motivational singer, and self-made millionaire in the

black cowboy hat was fund while it lasted just as it was with donald trump, sarah palin. he was a rapid passing fancy, a place for republicans to store their affections while they try to overcome mr. darcy. another powerful man who has crossed the line, then when caught tried to blame the womenç which would be a -- an interesting narrative if republicans weren't still wrapping their arms around this guy. the lover affair still continues with mr. wickam. >> only maureen dawd could bring jane austin. and if she's responsible for that brilliant headline or not "cain not able." it's the best.

>> another "new york times" that mika cabled in from her, what is it? 120-foot yacht? tom friedman. just as i don't buy the notion we need to keep playing the great game in iraq, i also don't buy it for afghanistan. if the u.s. steps back, it will see it has a lot more options. a senior fellow at the center for policy research in new delhi said, you let the contending regional forces play out against each other, and then you can tilt the balance. he's referring to the india, pakistan, russia, china and northern alliance tribes in afghanistan. we need to better leverage the natural competitions in this region to our ends. this is more than one way to play the great game, and we need to learn it. that's what dr. brzezinski's been saying for some time, andrea. our rivals, not our enemies, but our rivals are just sitting back

and watching us waste time and money, resources, and just waiting for the united states to get swept out of there, and instead of america continuing this for another three, four, five, tenç years, why not as friedman says let the natural competitive forces over there play out against each other? >> and now they're aligned against the united states. our latest play was to go to pakistan and urge pakistan to pressure the terrorists to come to the bargaining table. and two weeks later, we have a terror attack with 13 people dead. >> the other thing is, if obama's foreign policy has proven one thing in the past year and a half, it's they can do targeted assassinations of terrorists very well and you don't need a huge military footprint. and if we're going to apply that same standard to different countries, whether it's pakistan, yemen, libya, whatever, you should theoretically apply it to afg n

afghanist afghanistan. and that would liberate us this cost. >> and we're never going to be able to influence afghanistan the way pakistan, india, china, the northern alliance -- >> it's just different. it is historically difference. >> you know who said it was difference first? alexander the great in the fourth century b.c. >> should've listened to that guy. >> that was my point a year ago about afghanistan. and the fact of the matter is, you know, we're still walking down this road and ignoring all of the historic road signs about this region and particularly this country. i think sam is right, and i think andrea's right, you've got to look at this more strategically using the talent that's there, if you will. those forcesí way that help you reach your ultimate objective without committing blood and treasure. >> and for the last two, three years, we've been asking people why we're in afghanistan. and as we say all the time,

foreign policy leaders are never able to give usç a clear answe to it. usually their default is, we've got to prop up karzai and his government, which is, of course, absolutely absurd. but dr. brzezinski comes on and a few others come on and talk about this balance of power. and it just seems to make an awful lot of sense. >> yeah. it is sort of strange we need to be in afghanistan in order to deal with pakistan. it's not even about afghanistan anymore, it seems. ten years, it's been a decade now, and we ask the same answ s questions and never get the straight answer. what will be different in 2021 or 2031? when do we reach the point of diminishing returns, cut out, and leave afghanistan? and we haven't gotten a straight answer. >> no straight answer. we're spending $2 billion a week. while we're cutting education and infrastructure and r & d at

home. and you're so right, willie, the other answer that foreign policy leaders give us, which just baffles me is when you ask the question, why are we in afghanistan? why do you have 100,000 troops in afghanistan why are you spending $2 billion in afghanistan? why the focus on afghanistan? and their answer is, pakistan. that's the best you've got? that is not the correct answer. anyway, so willie, what do you have coming up next? condi rice was on "the daily show" last night. we heard about this obsession moammar gadhafi had with her, i don't think we understand the obsession. she provides detail when we come back.

oh, yes, it is time. i'm here. i'm so excited. >> the yacht has pulled up. >> mika's here. >> to the çmarina. >> the show begins in earnest because mika's here. >> what show? have we been on the air? >> no, we haven't. >> okay. good. >> jon huntsman's daughters, the eldest daughters, they've got the twitter page everyone's talking @jon2012 girls. and they popped into the "morning joe" green room and left a little message. here's what they wrote.

they wrote "we love morning joe." we've got to have them on some time. >> that's adorable. >> what else? >> condi rice last night on the "daily show." we heard all this stories about moammar gadhafi's obsession with her. he had this weird photo album with pictures of her. we got more details last night. watch this. >> so moammar gadhafi was killed. were you aware he had a strange and shall i say creepy fixation on secretary of state condoleezza rice? did you know that? >> i was aware. several of my colleagues had told me before i went to visit him back in 2008 that he had this fixation. and when i got there, i thought, just get through your business, just do diplomacy, get out of here. and everything was going fine and all of a sudden he said, i have this video for you.

and i thought -- uh-oh, what is this? but it was actually just pictures of me with vladimir putin of russia, set to a song he had hadç written called "blk flower in the white house." >> he wrote her a song and put it to a video of her with other world leaders. that's how you make a woman feel comfortable, isn't it? >> that's hysterical. yesterday we showed you stephen colbert making a visit in lower manhattan to hang out with the occupy wall streeters. he got in the drum circle, did the whole thing, and invited a couple of them up to his penthouse suite to enjoy room service. part two of that interview last night on colbert. >> so tell me about some of the popular discontent that you think the people on the street are feeling?

>> there's a lot of frustration, a lot of anger. >> okay. >> and what do you think the greatest remedy for this anger is? >> what do i think the remedy is? i think we need to start. i think we need to start from the ground -- >> does that feel good? >> it does. but we need to start from the ground up from a basis of sharing. >> i'm just saying, let the super pack help you and this is how we're rolling all the time. popping champagne, this time tomorrow you could have a massage in london talking about the downtrodden. but from up here. where you can see everything. see? corporations are not people. that's a sign, right? do you believe in that? >> i believe that. >> let's just tweak it. corporations are now people. >> they're just not people. >> but it just seems pretty racist of you to say, oh, certain people don't get to be

people. are they 3/5 of a person? corporation owns the park you're on right now? >> but the thing that owns the park -- >> the thing -- oh, do you understand how ugly that sounds? hey, boy, where's my shrimp? you've got to fight fire with fire. money talks, bull [ bleep ] walks. that's what got judas so angry. i was man enough to know when i'd been beaten. the revolution would not be televised. >> ketch-up, justin, i know you've got to get back to the revolution. >> thanks, stephen. no, thank you -- oh, no, that's yours, that's all your money. >> yoshi's on the jet. that's my favorite line. yoshi's on the jet. >> it was so good. >> he's good. still ahead, richard shelby, you can talk about the big game

this weekend. also eugene robinson and david gregory. keep it here on "morning joe." the postal service is critical to our economy-- delivering mail, medicine and packages. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service, and want to lay off over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem ? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains 5 billion a year from post-office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. congress created this problem, and congress can fix it.

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when i first heard the word settlement, i thought legal settlement. and my recollection early -- my recollection later was that there was an agreement. and so i made an assumption about the word settlement that

didn't intend to contradict myself. it's just been difficult trying to recollect many of the pieces that happened 12 years ago.ç >> that is one way to put it. >> well, because i mean seriously -- if you -- if you'd been accused of sexual harassment. come on 12 years ago, it's such a long time ago, herman cain would suggest. i suggest if you had been accused of sexual harassment and as the "new york times" is reporting today that one of the employees was actually paid out her salary -- >> for a year. >> you would probably remember that fact. instead of saying as he did early on, well, there was no settlement. i hope there wasn't a settlement because i did nothing. come on. michael steele is still with us in washington. joining the table, associate editor of "washington post"

eugene robinson. also with us, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. >> we talked about this last hour, as well. i'm going to show you a clip. herman cain went on pbs last night, talked to judy woodruff. and it seems to me, we don't know what happened 12 years ago, and we know what happened last night. and last night you had actually the front-runner in the republican field not knowing the little-known fact that china had a nuclear weapon for half a century. >> i do view china as a potential military threat to the united states. >> what could you do as president to head that off? >> my china strategy is quite simply outgrow china. i plan to get away from making cutting our defense the priority and make investing in our military capability a priority. going back to my statement, peace through strength and

clarity. so yes, they're a military threat, they've indicated they're trying to develop nuclearç capability and they wt to develop more aircraft carriers like we have. so yes, we have to consider them a military threat. >> trying to develop nuclear capability. let me ask you all around the table. and david, i'll start with you. and i'm not even -- i'm not be facetious here. do you know a serious player in washington, d.c. that is not aware of the fact that china get nuclear weapons almost 50 years ago. >> yes, there's a learning curve on the presidential campaign. but this is 2011, we've been at war for a decade in two countries dealing with the aftermath of 9/11. fluency in foreign affairs and national security should be the price of admission. >> these basic issues, right of return, whether china has nuclear wes -- >> or does he know when i interviewed him about the neo conservative movement, which was

a driving movement behind the iraq war. and this is not a pop quiz in 2000 to george w. bush -- >> not playing jeopardy. >> this is part of the problem on foreign affairs. and by the way, you go to the other point about the sexual harassment allegations. whether foreign affairs where he just kind of keeps changing the story. >> the electric fence. >> the electric fence. that was a joke and -- >> abortion, he's pro choice, oh, no, he didn't mean it. >> michael steele at some point, and i heard you say in the earlier hour he should step out of the limelight, hunker down, and get to work. at what point does your party say, listen, step off the stage? come on now? >> i don't see that point any time soon. >> why? because if you're going to have someone hunker down, what you're doing is propping them up. >> not necessarily in that sense, çmika. because i think everybody goes through a point in their campaign where they need to step back and regroup and reorganize and refocus on their message. i mean, it happens. it happens.

>> this is basic -- >> i understand what you're saying. >> who's going to do that? there's not a room of 12 guys who say, you must get off the stage. hep doesn't have -- >> he's in first place! >> his energy is coming from the base of the party who is see in him as someone who will fight on the issues that matter to them. and foreign affairs is not something that is galvanizing people's attention generally speaking. people have not focused on the miscues and missteps. >> that's insane. >> it may be insane, but that's where our politics is right now. >> so let me ask gene robinson. we brought up sarah palin last hour. as we said last hour, avril hareman to this guy.

why did sarah palin get skewered and herman cain seems to skate through this? when sarah palin's grasp of foreign policy is far superior to herman cain's? >> compared to what, though? sarah palin's grasp did not seem to be that great at the time -- >> i know. >> and actually, i'm seriously suggesting that's the point. >> it is the point. >> the party has lowered the standard. they're so desperate not to have mitt romney as their nominee. >> look, we're talking china.ç has he read anything about china in the last 20 years? >> it's fair to point out -- >> incredible shrinking -- >> that was unbelievable! >> i'm shrinking. >> whoa. >> i don't think my point was out of order.

>> when we don't like what someone has to say, that happens. i'm sorry. >> my point is, i think michael's right, what is moving primary voters, the one being polled right now, the ones putting him in first place is an active at the moment flirtation and support is about the economy, about the role of government, not about the fine points of foreign policy. they do not poll well. sure, at some point you get to the 3:00 a.m. phone call question of whether you're tested and ready, but i don't think that's where the electorate is right now. >> maybe that's the problem. >> this guy doesn't -- it's not even the fine points. can you believe this gip doesn't know what neo conservatives are? >> the defining movement, ideological movement of this country over the past decade. >> particularly for foreign policy. >> for foreign policy. it is stunning. what's he been doing for the past decade? >> making it up as it goes along and quite well. you know this is obviously all good news for president obama. i mean, it's just unbelievable

because your points you were making about mitt romney feed into this. and we have a new poll released moments ago showing obama's approval rating improving slightly among u.s. voters, 47% of voters now approve of the president with 49% disapproving, that's up from 41% in early october. and then there's this. a surge for herman cain. who now sits atop the gop field at 30%ç >> holy moly. >> that's a 13-point jump from last month. mitt romney coming in second at 23%. >> you want 22%, 23%, middle will get it every time. >> that's the point. the point he has this 25% ceiling, mitt romney does. and he doesn't go above that. and it's kind of flavor of the month. >> he's got that ceiling, but i say it breaks in january when the voters go to the polls and they go to their caucuses in iowa on the 3rd and they begin to put really their vote behind

someone. i think it begins to break at that point. >> two points. one is that the anti-romney republican has yet to really train a lot of money and fire on him yet. we thought that was going to be rick perry. he's got the war chest, he hasn't shown up yet to do that. cain is not out there doing that. he's been very tepid at blasting away at mitt romney. i will make a contrarian point at the table. whoever the nominee is, once we do start voting, that nominee gets a lot stronger. right now it's easy to dismiss this as a side show, and who's the real front-runner? that's why we actually start the voting and consolidates around one figure, and in this economy in this circumstance, i think it becomes a formidable opponent. >> the mccain forces in '08 that were against him, they did at the end pull in and they hued to the idea of going out there and defeating -- >> but the alternative was mitt romney. >> yeah. >> conservatives remember at the

end were running into the arms of mitt romney. they didn't want john mccain. >> and they'll run there again this time. >> a head-to-head match-up for the republican primary, herman cain leads mitt romney 47%ç to 39% even as most respondents feel romney has the experience and knowledge to be president. >> look at that. you can -- >> what is -- i just -- >> you can get a list of things herman cain has said over the last month, run them together, and there's no way this guy should still be in the race. that said, i'm telling you, this poll is more about the guy on the bottom than the guy on the top. >> can i make one point? because we run the risk here of sounding a little elitist and dismissive. but let me make the point. i remember somebody, a democrat saying to me in 2000 when i was covering -- then governor bush. they were so sort of filled with horror at the notion that he would be the nominee. and this person said to me, you know, what has he ever read?

and i said, well, okay, interesting point. i said what does it really matter? and the truth is it didn't matter, he was the nominee and he was a two-term president of the united states. >> herman cain -- i know george w. bush. he was not a friend of mine, but george w. bush is also -- >> not according to what i'm talking about. >> right. >> and i'm not equating the two at all. there was that sense of, hey, does this guy belong in the conversation? i think president bush then governor bush used to love some of that. and used to seize on some of that. i think what cain understands by accident or by design is that there's a way to keep your finger on the pulse of what's happening, what's coursing through the republican electorate, and it's not some of these things. >> he's done that more than any of the other candidates running to this moment. but this -- >> this is the guy -- it is not elitism to call out a guy who does not know that our greatest

rival over the nextç century h nuclear weapons. it is not elitism to call out a guy who does not understand the most basic concept of right of return. it is not elitism to call out a guy who actually takes great pride in his ignorance in foreign policy and makes jokes about it. >> that's what people like about him. >> when it comes to foreign policy, he is -- >> a brilliant guy, but when it comes to -- >> you're putting a new york spin on it, it's great. >> a new york spin! that's an insult to kansas! no, it is! listen. >> hold on a second. >> i've got to stop you. this is elitism defined. that you would suggest -- >> reverse elitism. >> it is reverse elitism. that you would suggest people in alabama, in iowa, in kansas, in florida, in the areas i lived were somehow wallowing and loving this guy because he is

ignorant of basic foreign policy. this has nothing to do with new york city. >> you didn't let me finish my point. >> let him finish. >> stop insulting middle america. stop insulting -- >> i wasn't. >> stop insulting my good people. >> there you go. my heart is bleeding, bestill my heart. >> i was still thinking of joe as mr. new york. >> michael steele has the table. >> no, i think -- >> let's talk about alabama, crimson tide this weekend, five-point favorites. go ahead. >> i think david is right on that. this whole thing has been about someone who is connecting to that part of america that you laid out there. where those things that matter to them aren't wrapped around whether y]u know how many nuclear armaments we have or if china's armed.

>> we have to make the choice. why do we have to make the choice. >> they've made that choice. it's not whether you. you made a difference choice. you've made a difference choice. >> you're arguing this different ways. just as the republican party is supposed to be the party of fiscal conservatism and got away from that over the past decade, the republican party is supposed to be the party that really sort of understands national security and foreign affairs. this is not a standard who represents that at this point. >> grave times in this country. >> this is not the year 2000 when we had a campaign that was largely devoid of these issues and we were not talking about -- we're talking about avoiding nation building. that goes to joe's point. >> we have more military men and women across the globe than ever before, and this guy doesn't know the basics. >> yeah. >> and -- >> how about the country is teetering. >> i'm just saying that element. there's something else driving it greater than the point --

>> but when you listen to talk radio, what offends me when you read the blogs is the suggestion that we somehow have to choose between competence and ideology. that we can either have somebody that is a true conservative or we can have somebody who is competent. >> that goes to the heart of the problem. >> he's a conservative, he is competent, paul ryan is conservative, he is competent. mitch daniels is conservative, -- >> they're not running. if they wanted to run, they would have gotten in the race. and the guy that's in the race is connected with the people at a level that matters to them. >> oh, god, that scares me.ç >> i'm just saying, folks. >> is there any way anyone could jump in? >> you couldn't get organized to do it to get on the ballot. but joe, your point goes to what's driving at the soul of the party right now. something it's got to work out

internally. this is a long-standing issue within the party. >> we think independents are seeing this. >> that's great news. >> this is a great point. barack obama is out and just -- >> his numbers keep going up. this is helping barack obama. >> and the white house is really frustrated as you saw with me on sunday, going after mitt romney because they're so frustrated that republicans in the race are not doing that. throwing their support behind herman cain is not creating as much of a contrast. >> isn't it fascinating, though, david? it appears the other candidates don't have to go after mitt romney because he's not making the sell. . more than 23%, 24% of the electorate. >> well, i think that's certainly a problem. i still think that romney's got the money, he's got a lot of staying power. it is a certain quality of kind of laying in wait here. >> seriously. >> here's music, though, and i think it's time -- >> you have brought a special guest along with you.

explain, david. >> well, this is one of my dodgers toys that i keep in the office. and when this bear heard that, in fact, the mccourts were selling the team, something very interesting happened. he started dancing. >> yeah, baby. i love it. >> new ownership of the dodgers is coming. >> big news for the dodgers. >> by the way, that bear has better foreign policyç credentials than herman cain. >> i like that bear. all right. i don't know what just happened here. coming up next, ranking member of the senate banking committee, senator richard shelby. >> roll tide. also, nbc news political director chuck todd. but first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning, you're waking up to blizzard conditions outside of denver, your second winter storm in one week. we are going to watch this storm heading out into kansas and areas of nebraska too. first snow of the season for those areas. but in denver, the worst of it

is now ending. you should end up with about 5 to 6 inches by the time this afternoon comes around. the worst of the storm around interstate 70. a lot of the interstates around denver have been closed overnight. check that out before you head outside. the rest of the forecast. eventually that rain will change to snow. then east coast, you're off to a beautiful start. lots of sunshine. temperatures not bad for this time of year. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. and walmartp to bring you a low-priced medicare prescription drug plan. ♪ with the lowest national plan premium... ♪ ...and copays as low as one dollar... ♪ ...saving on medicare prescriptions is easy. ♪ so you're free to focus on the things that really matter. call humana at 1-800-808-4003. or go to walmart.com for details. .

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this is such a cool state. come on. live free or die. it's like live free or die, victory or death. bring it. the texas rangers after 50 years are going to win a world series! oops. i grew up on a farm. i grew up -- i grew up. it was a farm. >> it was a great crowd, good

response, and i guess you can do anything you want with a video and make it look any way you want. i felt good, felt great, i think the message got across very well. so it was a good speech. >> yeah. >> what exactly was that message? joining the table, ranking member of the senate banking committee, senator richard shelby. also joining us chuck todd, nbc news white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown." good to have you. >> bring it. bring it. >> bring it on. >> alabama, lsu, it's all that matters in america. >> look at that alabama crimson tide çtie. what do you think, senator? >> i believe alabama 24-10. you never know what's going to happen. >> and at a town meeting on saturday at the stadium --

>> i hope it'll be over 100. and what we have to remember is that there'll be a lot of our friends in louisiana that won't go to the game, but do they know how to cook out. if they can smell the food and the economy's going to be helped a lot. probably the grocery stores and other liquids. >> he was congressman of tuscaloosa when i was in college. so what do you think, chuck? alabama or lsu? >> you know, you didn't like hearing this. i think lsu has more talent. >> impossible. >> i've got to go with lsu, i'm sorry. >> oh, my lord! >> i'm sorry, senator. >> they are beastly this year. >> and alabama is what? >> no, alabama's great. alabama's certainly -- look -- >> seriously. >> i went to michigan. so second squad could be

mentioned. >> i'll have to be persuaded that lsu can beat them two straight years. i believe he's worked hard, i believe the team will be ready, and i believe we're going to win. but it'll be decided on the battlefield. >> 5 1/2 points, that's a lot, isn't it? >> it started at about 3 1/2, keeps going up. it is, two points is the less les miles bonus. let's talk about things less important, senator, greece. >> yeah. >> and economic calamityç in europe that could spread to the united states of america. it appears that the people of greece are going to literally play dice with the economy of europe and the world. >> remember europe's the tip of the iceberg. it's a small country with a lot of debt, but they have larger countries as you know like italy and spain and all of europe.

the european banks are really in bad shape. considering everything. but i believe you hit it on the head. i don't know if the future of european union we're going to find out probably in another few weeks. but this european debt situation is just beginning. this is going to be a slow drip probably for a long time. >> and chuck, italy is a much larger country, but in terrible shape. >> i'm curious, senator, i was talking to a treasury official who said he thought europe has the money to -- that there's enough money in the northern countries, you know, when you look at norway, the bigger economies up there in germany. what do you think of this idea they may reach out to china for a bailout? >> well, they already -- china is everywhere. and they're already talking, i bet, to some degree. and of course, china can always buy bonds, buy the euro.

and they've done a lot of that. >> are you comfortable with that? >> well, it's not my comfort zone. my comfort zone would be that europe would be taking care of themselves and they would be in good shape and we would be in better shape. but what happens in europe will affect us. >> explain that to the viewers. exactly why it should be important? and why we should be looking globally at how our financial systems interrelate and be watching with a very careful eye specifically greece.pe and >> excellent question. but we're intertwined with europe. our economies are. we sell a lot to europe, we buy a lot from them. a lot of our banks are exposed, maybe not to the extent that the european banks are. what happens there affects us. it could tilt us into a big recession faster than anything. so -- and europe being the european union is one of the big economic, you know, power houses of the world. and the question is, will it

keep sputtering along, and will germany keep exporting? will germany carry all of europe? can it politically do it? i don't think it can politically do it because 2/3 of the people are saying no. >> how do you reconcile what's good for germany and the germans, right, who want to preserve the integrity of the euro and inflation and devaluation of the currency? and what's good for the average greek citizen who sees in the future years and years, decades of what looks from their point of view, like paying back these debts that were run up to their vantage point, it would be better to get out of the euro, devalue, and get on with life, wouldn't it? >> it might be. a lot of people have argued that. look, you're going to see the breakup of union because greece can't pay that money back. politically the political forces are not there. even to pay half of it back.

austerity is not a very good thing for politicians to talk about. >> the thing is, gene, imagine if you're a german citizen and you've got one of the highest savings rates in europe, maybe even the worldç this side of china. your government has done everything right over the past decade. you have made the small sacrifices over time. and to the south of you, you have greece who has been reckless, and who now threatens the entire economic balance of europe, and you have to bail them -- i mean, i'm not concerned about what the greeks think because they have been reckless and irresponsible. it's just like california. they've been reckless and irresponsible over 30 years. so now, why do we care what the -- >> because -- because it looks like it's going to go to a referendum. and if they vote it down, that could have an impact.

>> you were talking about -- you were talking about how they're going to be facing austerity in the future. yes, they are. and whose fault is it? it is their fault. >> i wasn't going to -- i wasn't. >> i know. >> right. >> looking at it from their point of view. you're sitting there, you're a greek retiree. sure, you've got the sweetheart deal. what are you going to do? you're going to go back to work at age 52 or whatever? and what are you going to do? >> age 52. >> age 52. their retirement -- >> some have argued -- germans would say they don't work. they get -- >> they don't work, they don't -- >> and so forth as an argument. but i see economic chaos coming out g÷ all this unraveling. and if something doesn't happen, watch greece, but watch italy. >> watch italy. >> why this is so politically unpopular was described to me as

basically europe is setting up a $1 trillion t.a.r.p. fund, but for goverjq't and banks. and so that was the deal that was cut, and it's not going to be for greece, it's going to be used to capitalize what's going on in italy. all the quote unquote, the p.i.g. countries. >> so ultimately, it's for government -- it's ultimately for the banks, right? because they're holding the bonds. >> it's going to be different than our t.a.r.p. because our t.a.r.p. wasn't for government. >> what's happened there over the years. the banks have been encouraged to make these loans to southern europe and elsewhere. and now they don't have the capital in the banks. the good question is, will $1 trillion or 1 trillion euros be enough? it might not be. >> it may not be. >> it's scary.

>> bank of america yesterday, they're having to back down off of fees. a lot of anger and unrest regarding the big banks. when you go and campaign in central and southern alabama, all across rural alabama, do you -- you do a lot of town hall meetings out there. do the people -- the good people of alabama ask you why the big banks have gotten bigger? >> absolutely. >> do they want them broken up? why can't the four or five biggest banks still too big to fail be broken up? >> well, dr. volcker asked another question. if they're too big to fail, are they too big to exist? and that's a good question. >> are they too big to exist? >> some of them obviously are. and they might not exist, they're going to have to sell off parts t zurvive. >> bank of america -- >> bank of america is trying to spin off some parts, but you look at -- for instance, tell

the american people -- and i know you will -- the truth. if citi tomorrow has a problem, they're going under, bank of america, jpmorgan, all of these big banks, we're in a position where we're going to have to bail them out again. >> i hope not. >> we'll have to. >> that will happen again. >> i hope it won't. and i tell you, if we implement the accords for more capital, they are better regulated. are we better off with bigger banks than we were? the answer's no. >> does the occupy wall street movement have a point? >> well, there's a lot of frustration out there everywhere. they see big salaries, they see big banks. >> are you sympathetic to their concerns? >> well, i'm sympathetic to unemployment and the failure for this administration or everybody's to create fewer and fewer jobs. that's frustration. >> okay.

>> all right. >> senator shelby, thank you very much. >> i got two words for you. >> you stop. you stop it. >> roll tide. >> three, roll tide, baby. >> thank you. >> it's going to be a big one. still ahead, chris matthews takes a revealing look at president kennedy's coming of age where the famous "ask not" line from his inauguration may have originated from. more "morning joe" in a moment. ♪ [ female announcer ] give a little cheer to a family of a soldier. just cut out the cheer from your specially marked box of cheerios, write your message, and we'll see that they get it.

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all right. a pilot in poland being hailed as a hero this morning. able to take a packed jet to the ground after the plane's landing gear failed. the flight from newark, new jersey, to warsaw slid across the runway on its belly sparking small fires that were quickly put out. none of the 231 people onboard were injured. that's pretty amazing. >> isn't that amazing? >> yes, it is. we also want to thank our friends at icfj, the international center for journalists for having us at

their host last night. at their annual awards. we were there honoring great journalism around the world. and -- you look all right. >> christiane amanpour was the big winner. >> she got the founders award and we did a wonderful conversation with her. and again, we thank everyone for having us. it was a lovely event. >> it really was. >> it reminds you of what we're here for. >> no doubt. so chuck, you were following the president. it's just absolutely remarkable what's happened. everybody's talking about the president and his deficiencies as far as leadership goes over the summer. now the focus has turned on one republican candidate after the other. his numbers are creeping up. seems like he's having a ready good month. >> ever so slowly. and he is able -- it's sort of this weird moment in the campaign. republican candidates are fighting amongst themselves. and he's almost going unresponded to. because the republican conversation where three months ago was being led by mitch mcconnell and john boehner, they're taking a backseat to

their candidate. so now the president gets to be on his own doing this we can't wait thing they're doing now. i have to tell you, yesterday, for aç message media event, it was a clever thing they did. it made you wonder where was this white house two years ago? they invited ten local anchors. they created local tv row on the south lawn. the president does ten round robin interviews, they bring the dog out. >> oh, it's that good. >> exactly. they all come crowding around the dog, every one of them, showed the dog. and, gee, the markets were denver, phoenix -- >> smart. >> i think there was, oh, hampton road, virginia. omaha, oh, remember that one electoral vote? tampa -- funny. >> somebody explain to me why that works. >> oklahoma city wasn't invited. >> boise? no. >> all right. >> that is really smart.

>> one of the things i've said, i think they've benefitted by getting away from the debt ceiling conversation. when he's not talking about debt -- >> the president's been talking jobs, jobs, jobs, and it's paying off. >> and look, occupy wall street has played a role. >> it has. >> economic inequality. >> chuck, you're traveling with the president to -- when are you heading out? >> we're going to cannes. >> really? >> yeah. leaving tonight. it's going to be raining the whole time. >> that's all right. it'll still be lovely and you know it. standing by in the green room niall ferguson. we'll be right back. ♪

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i have often been accused of

not having adequate foreign policy experience. and to have the nerve to run for president. and the guy we have there now does have foreign policy experience?wçñi >> herman cain. joining us now is the professor of history at harvard university, niall ferguson out with a new book titled "civilization: the west and the rest." before we get to the book, let me ask you about greece. this referendum, the proposedç referendum anyway, seems like a blind side to the rest of europe. why is this so important? and what could be the consequences? >> well, the key to understanding this horrible crisis is the euro is a government-killing machine. and it was going to kill the government in athens at some point. and i think we've probably reached that point now. i'd be quite surprised if he survives even to the end of the

week. there's a no-confidence motion he has to get through this week. it kills governments and then they're replaced by the opposition and the opposition does exactly the same in terms of policy. that's what we've seen in ireland and portugal. this just adds a new layer of uncertainty. everybody in wall street especially wants this to have been solved last week. and i said, give me a break, nothing's been solved. at any level, not the banks, not the sovereign debt, and not the underlying productivity. my sense is more trouble ahead. and don't expect this to be solved by some kind of euro summit. it won't be. >> was he doing this vote to save his political hyde at a great risk to europe? >> it was a hail mary attempt. his coalition is crumbling, his government is crumbling. he's got a wafer-thin majority, which may be gone by the end of the week. we're about to say farewell to

this government and say hello to a new government that will come in and say, oh, dear, we have to do the austerity because it wouldn't make sense to leave. i think all this talk is unrealistic they'll be wiped out if they did that. >> we've got a crew of people in washington anxious to talk with you. >> my question is, why is it so unrealistic that greece would leave the euro seeing as how from the standpoint of the averawed- citizen, looks like i'm facing ruin if we stay. so why not leave? and default and let everything crumble out there, but at least we can continue with our greek way of life. >> well, i think it would be even worse. it's hard to imagine, but it could be much worse. a great number of greece institutions owe money to non-greek counter parties in euros. and they couldn't convert those. i think the difficulty is you would just blow up your economy. and then the other point is that

greece has a deficit to finance. it keeps having to borrow money. and the markets, i think, would say forget it if the greeks came saying we've changed our minds, we'd like to borrow in drachma. and they'd only be able to finance their government by printing money. so very quickly, you get into an old-style latin american situation with high inflation. those things are bad, they've got a depression economy in greece. they're still being offered a significant haircut in terms of external deficits. and they're still being offered money ultimately from the german taxpayer. i can't see how it pays to withdraw from this system at this point. it's really, really hard to go out of the euro zone once you're in. you'd need something very dramatic, a sort of military coup and a bunch of economically enumerate generals in charge for it to happen. >> professor, this is michael steele in washington. you've got the drama of the

greek meltdown. you've got the euro that's on the rails right now. and sitting very quietly in the cusp is this little place called china. and i kind of look at china as sort of the sleeping giant of the 21st century that's0l to make its move. is that how you're seeing china position itself right now? watching this western decline, ready to pounce and make its move in such a way it is a dominant player for the remainder of the century? >> well, part of the argument of my book "civilization" is we're living through a massive shift in the global balance economic power and power generally. and it's happening so fast, and it represents such a break with the past that we really struggle to grasp it. the fact that you call china a sleeping giant is revealing in itself. it's not asleep. i spent much of the summer there. and they watch the situation, not only in europe, but in the united states with great attention. i was just in london talking with a very senior chinese economist.

the big call for them is whether to step in and help bail europe out. there's been talk about doing this and getting everybody excited. but i'd be very surprised if ma country like greece or for that matter portugal. i think at this point china is a very wide awake giant poised remember, to become the biggest economy in the world within five years if you believe the international monetary fund projections. that's 2016. this is happening extraordinarily fast. you know, when i was a teenager china was a tiny dwarf in economic terms and over a period of 30 years it has raced to the top of the economic league. the u.s. has been the biggest economy in the world since the early 1870s. i don't think we're ready for this transition, and we just hope that the chinese are asleep on the job. i promise you, they are not. >> a quick question on that then.  of what's happening in the

euroeurozone, the stock market. if you're advising the administration to pursue any sort of policy path, what would it be? >> well, the administration is in some measure waiting for the deficit super committee to reveal its hand, and i'm not yet clear whether they are going to come up with the goods. the big problem for the united states is to get its fiscal house in order before doubt creeps in about its long-term viability, and at this point it's an extraordinarily slow and painful process. i wish the united states would get ahead of this game the way the british government did because it's much better to deal with fiscal imbalances before the bond market loses faith in you. as you see in greece and other countries in europe, once you've lost credibility you're in a death spiral so that's the biggest issue for the u.s., and i suspect we'll finally get there. i always quote winston churchill. i do in "civilization." the united states always does the right thing when all the alternatives have been

exhausted. i think we've nearly exhausted all the alternatives. >> the book is called "civilization, the west and the west." go become and look at the ascendancy of the united states and the keys to that. can we recapture some of what led us to have the greatest economy in the world from the 1870s forward? >> yeah. we can. i'm not a declinist for two reasons. i don't think things in history decline gradually into old age the way you and i sadly will decline, but they tend to be fine until they are not fine and then they collapse rather in the way that we're seeing europe collapsing or the way the dictatorships in north africa collapsed, but the good news is we can avert that kind of collapse if we work aggressively to reform our institutions. i use killer applications, a fancy way of saying the west had six cool institutions and the west didn'tç have and from the 1500s that propelled the west,

including north america into pole position, but when you look at what the institutions were, competition, our mastery of science, the rule of law, our very extraordinary advances in medicine, our consumer society and our work ethic, on all those different levels, all those different, if you like, applications, we've actually begun to underperform so we need to update our software if i can pursue ate analogy further and reboot the american operating system. it does require us to focus on things we're no longer doing as well as we used to. >> and we need a government capable of tackling larger problems than they can right now. >> we sure do. >> the book is called "civilization, the west and the rest." niall, always great to talk to you. we'll be right back. the employee f the month isss... the new spark card from capital one. spark miles gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. the spark card earns double miles... so we really had to up our game.

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my campaign was made aware that this story might break ten days ago, but we made a conscious decision not to go chasing two anonymous sources and not knowing what the rest of the story is going to be. >> shouldn't you then have -- if you were made aware ten days ago that this could have -- could be in play, shouldn't you then have gone over it with your attorneys, formulated a response, you know, they call it a rapid response team. >> right. >> all campaigns have them, so when it did get public, that you calmly went over and said these are the facts. you seem to be caught somewhat off guard, and you just said you didn't recollect. shouldn't you have had all of that in your file ready to go? >> we didn't have all of that, bill. what happened was when questions got asked, someç of them i didt anticipate and i was trying to

recollect -- i was trying to remember some of those facts in the middle of a very busy day. >> good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast as you take a live look at the nation's capital. back with us here in washington michael steele, sam stein and andrea mitchell. also in new york, willie geist. is it a bad sign if somebody who is running for president of the united states doesn't know that china's had nuclear weapons for almost 50 years? is that bad or good or why? >> a red flag for some voters, yes. >> could you imagine -- we're going to play a clip. herman cain. everybody is actually focused on the sexual harassment charges and the woman wants to talk, and we're going to get to that in a second but it seems to me willie, it's far more disturbing that a guy that wants to be commander in chief, far more disturbing now from what we know, obviously if he sexually harassed two women that's disturbing, the fact that a guy wants to be commander in chief

does not know, and we know he'll backtrack today because once again he's showing his ignorance in foreign policy and backtracks as if it's a joke but he didn't know on pbs that china had nuclear weapons. he said we know that they are trying to acquire the technology and can you imagine if sarah palin made that statement and yet herman cain makes these mistakes one day after another and he keeps sailing through? >> there seems to be a point of pride for him. remember when he did the uzbekiç beki line, he said i'll have advisors, there will be people around me. i don't need to know them. it seems to be an odd sense of pride that he doesn't know what's happening in the world around him. >> these are amazing. these are some of the most important issues, right of

return. andrea mitchell, right of return, whether china has nepens or not. they have been in the club since '64. they are not pakistan. >> a reason were henry kissinger sneaked over there in 1927 to set up normalization. >> absolutely. let's play this clip, and then i would love to get your response to it. >> i do view china as a potential military threat to the united states. >> and what could you do as president to head that off? >> my china strategy is quite simply outgrow china. i plan to get away from making cutting our defense a priority and make investing in our military capability a priority going back to my statement, peace through strength and clarity, so, yes, they are a military threat. they indicate tld that they are trying to develop nuclear capability and develop more aircraft carriers like we have so yes, they ought to consider them a military threat.

>> i didn't see a smile on his face so when he says it's a joke. >> peace through strength. >> great sloganeering. that, too, would seem to be a disqualifier, and herman cain, the reason we're picking it up. we'd be saying this of any republican or democrat at the top of the field who did not know that nuclear weapons have been in the hands of the chinese for 50 years. >> the most extraordinary thing is that he is at the top of the field in some polls and certainly the intensity factor out in iowa and the caucus poll whereç he really is lapping mi romney in terms of committed caucus-goers. it's extraordinary. says something about the way the whole campaign has evolved. says something about us frankly in the media and obviously obviously the domestic focus, the appropriate domestic focus on our economy at the same time there are certain, you know, basic foreign policy credentials that you're going to have if you're going to be president. >> and yet if you look at "washington post" today, michael steele, iowa -- iowa supporters

rallying around him. >> yeah. >> he's one point behind mitt romney in a florida poll that we're going to be showing in a minute. he is right now, would you have to put him, as the front-runner for the gop. >> no doubt about that. >> and yet he is woefully ill-prepared to be commander in chief. >> i think at this point what herman needs to do is to step off the media stage. i think he needs to hunker down with a core team of advisers to get the messaging right, to get boned up on what will now be some serious questions in the foreign policy area, because foreign policy debate that's coming up soon, so there are some things that he needs to start doing. >> you say he needs to start doing it. >> but it's not hurting him in the polls. >> everything has a shelf life. >> he's got to know the basics. >> everything has a shelf life so it's not about at this point about the base with you in iowa. it's about what happens after that when the broader electorate is looking at you and considering you for the president is tcy

presidency. united states. you want to have a good conversation with them. you want to say things that resonate beyond that base, and right now that resonance is not -- not really clicking with a lot of people. >> that's sort of a disturbing thing to say though because what we're saying essentially is he should take some time and learn these issues so he canç cover his prior ignorance of them. we want to select a presidential candidate who comes into that process with the knowledge already intact. >> that's not the case for everybody who walks in. >> i would like to assume that for an election to the presidency the process would produce people that does have that knowledge. >> sam, he doesn't have the knowledge. >> the solution is not to take some time, go off and study these issues. >> the solution is to sell your books and get off the presidential trail and come back when you're ready. >> that's the most alarming thing for me. it seems like a man who went on this presidential quest in large part to sell books and has found

himself as a front-runner in a very, you know, someone who has a lot of enthusiasm behind him in iowa and, you know, we need to really look at the primary process that this could happen. it's a little troubling. >> think about this. andrea, you were reporting in 2008 about sarah palin. she had that charlie gibson interview and talked about the bush doctrine and there was a big debate whether she knew what the bush doctrine was. i thought at the time she had actually gotten it right. we had a debate was she ignorant of what the bush doctrine was? many people wrote articles saying she was too dumb basically to be vice president, too ignorant, but she looks like averill harriman compared to herman cain, and i mean this. sarah palin could absolutely take down herman cain in a foreign policy "jeopardy!" contest right now, and yet for

some reason herman cain is not being held to the same tough standard as sarah palin. forget democrats and republicans. >> no, you're right. >> sarah palin would have been massacred by the national çmed, and i just tonight know why herman cain is getting a free walk, in the only by the national media, but by republicans, by the republican base. why? >> he's been very engaging. he's got a great personality. >> so does sarah palin. >> so does sarah palin granted, but, yeah, he's getting a pass and the questions aren't being asked. maybe it is because 9-9-9, as simplistic as it is, was a great slogan. it was a great bumper sticker for people hungering for some economic solutions and people haven't been focused on uzbekistan. >> i think andrea is right there. i think the focus has been on the economy. there has not been the national discussion on international affairs. >> right. >> and foreign affairs that would cause people to focus their view on actually what he's

saying and does he really understand the intricacies here? that's a big part of it. >> isn't it part of if it in the back of everybody's mind that this guy will go away, that these poll numbers are soft and he'll no longer be the front-runner in iowa and why, you know, jump on. >> i wouldn't count on that at this point. >> at this point -- >> i was saying that a week ago. >> at this point maybe not, but for the past couple of weeks we've been looking at that rising, like, there's really not much there. everyone else has fallen back to earth, so will herman cain. what's the point of getting worked up and criticizing the man. now it's getting more serious. >> willie geist, day in and day out, the longer herman cain is in first place, the subtext of this story is mitt romney, is the fact that the conservative base does not trust mitt romney. i think what he did last week in ohio, i will say it again and i will say it again because it resonated with the conservative

base, his flip-flop onç whethe he would support john kasich or not in kasich's union reforms are, quote, anti-union legislation, his -- it's devastating for mitt romney. and if you look at this florida poll. mitt romney was supposed to win florida back in 2008. the latest suffolk university poll regarding florida shows herman cain and mitt romney in a statistical tie in the state of florida, and everybody else way back. newt gingrich, rick perry, ron paul. the polls also show many other things, but barack obama's approval rating in florida right now, willie, is at 41%. this is a state that would be so easy for the republican party to take, but right now the party -- the party is in search of itself. it does not have a conservative stalwart to get behind to win the general election.

isn't that what these rises and falls and fluctuations of all these conservative candidates real means? >> to your point, if you look inside the state-by-state polls among self-identified conservatives, they are going for herman cain. if you look at florida, if you look at iowa, if you even look at state of texas where herman cain's polling neck in neck with rick perry in the state where he's the governor. conservatives are going for herman cain in a way that they are certainly not going for mitt romney. that's a problem he'll have to address, and the longer herman cain stays around the more they will have to start worrying about herman cain. i think sam is right. even the romney campaign sort of sat back and said this guy is going to go away. he's going to implode, and he hasn't done it. we've saying it several weeks, and he's still sitting there at the top of the polls. >> he is. at the end of the day, and we've been talking about this a couple of days, this is such a searing indictment of mitt romney. consqvatives don't trust him. >> yeah. >> and i don't think they ever will. >> he's got a real drag within the conservative community. they do not have that lore for

him that they have shown to others. now, the question becomes, if a herman cain's balloon begins to deflate, is there someone to replace. >> who's next? >> newt gingrich or someone like that, i don't know. but at some point there's got to be a coming to a head of this relationship between the mitt romney world and the conservative world because iowa is two months out and the voting will start, and that's when it's organization on the ground and the money matters and all those things come into play. >> andrea, i'm hearing something remarkable over the past week. i'm hearing conservatives, stalwart conservatives, starting to say, you know what? i would rather lose to barack obama -- i would rather give him four more years than elect mitt romney and have him spend money like george bush and have another republican who promises to be conservative go liberal. conservative leaders this week, it's like a light switch has

come on, and they say you know what? fine. we would rather lose. >> well, you know what was telling for me was george will's column on sunday which just eviscerated mitt romney. >> george will has made that decision. you read that column, george will, like a lot of other conservative leaders have made, oh, rick perry. he may not be qualified to be president, but he would rather support rick perry than have mitt romney. >> if cain implodes. >> right. >> who is the next conservative who could -- could it be newt gingrich? i would suggest that he has so many flaws from his record that that would be a hard sell. is there a scenario, and you know the rules far better than anyone, michael, under the new rules where i'm just throwing it out there. >> you could have a scenario where you could have two, maybe three people going into the convention close in the numbers

and the delegate numbers, but i think what would happen in that situation is that the pressure would be on to -- to really gravitate to one of those folks, to have a fourth person come out of the blue or a third person come out of the blue and get the nomination would just upheave the whole thing because then you're having a conversation about a jen bush coming in in august to run for the presidency in november. >> not a bad deal. >> not a bad deal. >> and let me tell you something. the rejoice that you would hear would be from conservatives who would absolutely -- >> jeb bush would be a dynamic, just incredible. >> yeah. >> but i don't know that that's going to happen, but you look newt gingrich. newt is showing an upsurge, and i don't even think it's newt's past that's hurt him so much. it's been that he's been so erratic in this campaign. if newt had made the decision early on to play the grownup that he's been in the past at

critical times, he'd be doing much better than he was. >> he came out and stumbled, but i have to give him credit. he has managed to be consistent and to show himself capable of standing in there and sort of -- >> he's living off the land and doing it without the staff. >> john mccain lived off the land four years ago and his campaign imploded. sam stein, ron çpaul, sits the subbornly with 8%, 9%, 10%. as it gets more closer i think you may see more protest votes going to ron paul who, you know, may inch up there as well. >> and ron paul has sort of had that corner of the party for a while now, and it's basically stayed around 10% to 12%, like you said. we've talked a little bit off set about what role, if any, huntsman could play in terms of coming up and seizing some of that anti-romney sentiment, and i think i'm in agreement with you guys, if he's going to do it he has to present himself as different as what he's been

doing so far which is as the moderate in the field. he's defined himself by what he is against, and i think you're starting to see his advisers present him again as the only true conservative alternative for romney. huntsman has been taking some of the more sharper jabs against mitt romney against anyone else in the field and you have to understand he realizes his opportunity is right now. >> what can president obama learn from jack kennedy? we have chris matthews here. a great book on jfk providing a unique intimate portrait of our 25th president. and in greece there's new fear that a monumental bailout package will unravel. can we expect another big bailout on wall street? i'd bank on it and bank of america is backing down on its atm fee that many said went too far. >> still half a million of people without power from the

big storm we dealt with this past weekend in the northeast. now another winter storm we're dealing with. snow on the roads. a lot of schools are cancelled from cheyenne, wyoming to blizzard warnynm just outside of denver. interstates are closed on interstate 80 and interstate 70 have portions that are impassable. nebraska and kansas will see the first snows of the season and heavier snows will begin to exit the denver area and this afternoon the roads will get cleared out. wet weather will make its way from minneapolis down to chicago later on tonight. kansas city, same for you. you're going to see some snow by tomorrow morning. if you're just joining us from the east, southeast, mid-atlantic, you're enjoying finally a beautiful fall weather. a little cool in the morning, but the afternoon is just absolutely gorgeous. 61 in d.c. and times square beautiful. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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and so, my fellow americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. >> those famous words from president kennedy's inauguration. now a new book by chris matthews reveals who may have inspired that line and joins us now is the host of the msnbc's "hardball," chris matthews, author of the new book, "jack kennedy: elusive hero." >> you wonderful person, mika. >> thanks for being with us. >> thank you. >> chris, you and i, guys like

you and me grow up reading biographies of presidents, and i spent so much -- so much time reading about the kennedys, i can't believe though some of the things that you pull out here, and i wrote a couple of things down really quickly. jackie saying that jack's mother never loved him bitterly. >> yeah. >> you drawing out that bobby was the essential cog in the kennedy machine, the go-betwqc' between his old man and jfk. ben bradley, that moment after west virginia where jacuzzi abandoned. >> oh, you remember that. >> just incredible. >> and some shocking things. the old man getting it so wrong on hitler, and yet also being against the marshall plan because he thought communism in europe would be good for his business. and then -- and then this remarkable relationship between kennedy and nixon. >> right. >> you talked to haldeman right before he died, and he said i

never got how these two guys had this affinity, this closeness that the world never understood. >> well, where do i start? so wonderful at laying it out there. i'm glad because you're an expert and the junkie like me about politics, and i thought i couldn't penetrate to the real jack, and i said to myself i want to find out what he was like. if you or i knew him and spending three or four hours on an airplane with him, in a room somewhere, drinking with him somewhere. what would he be like then? i killed myself to find out what he was like at school and a classmate and what was he like in the navy, way ow in the middle of nowhere. what was he like to have jack kennedy as a buddy out there and that's what i went for. >> you talked about choate, and it's heartbreaking really and for all of us who grew up loving the kennedys, rose kennedy, it really is hard to believe that this is a man who never visited him in choate when he had these horrible bouts with one disease

after another. mysteries diseases. really the man was defined by the fact that, as jackie said to teddy white right after he died, that he had a mother who never loved him. >> he was a lonely kid. she also had a lot of other kids but, you know, jackie made that pointç to teddy white in that first interview after dallas and said his mother never loved him, liked being the mayor's daughter, ambassadors wife, never loved him. he was absolutely remarkable at choate. the mother never once in four years ever came to visit her son. even when he thought he had leukemia. here's a mother getting phone calls. what's your blood count? he's thinking he's dying and nobody comes to see him. and jack he that right. some of this is just mother-in-law to daughter-in-law, but jackie said he was a lonely kid who all his life, especially in his youth, was all alone out there reading books of heros. he was always sick. i think he had the record at choate for most times in the infirmary and all through college he was like that, going

off to chelsea hospital or boston baptist of the he was away for a long time, sick and alone and reading history and becoming a lover of history. he read winston churchill's entire history and he analyzed article after article. he was a self-made guy. >> and chris, what a great quote when jackie said history made jack because he was so alone. he was lying in hospital beds and infirmries so off and on. also fascinating. you -- you explain how he goes up to choate as the second son. >> yeah. >> in the shadow. remarkable joe jr. who you reveal wasn't so remarkable after all. a great line in there is how observers said john kenneth galbraith said joe jr. started ever sentence with dad says. >> father says, like old world.

well, father says. whatç a replicate he was. i'm a second son. anybody who is a second son or second daughter knows what i'm talking about. got to be original, a little rebellious and he was, very much like the character in "bride's head revisited," the older brother is a straight arrow and does everything right and here's this young jack trying to make his name. he's not a jock. too sick. jean kennedy said the same thing that jackie said back after he was killed. the key to jack was he was always so sick, always reading history and becoming sort of an intellectual that separated him from the rest of the family who were largely jocks. >> yeah. no doubt about it. so, could you explain, he gets into congress in '46. he and nixon. >> yeah. >> are fellow classmates, and they immediately had an affinity

towards each other. >> yeah. >> and nixon was taken aback this son from a powerful east coast family who comes up to him and is effusive in his praise of nixon. he had a real affinity for this guy. >> jack always would be the kind of guy that would want to room with the quarterback. hang out with the top jock, and in this case nixon was the star of that class in '46. nixon came in and kennedy didn't care how he beat him, he beat him, like beating john mccormack up insgé massachusetts. had their first debate out in 1947. went out and took the train to mckeesport in pennsylvania, a steel town, booming town and had this great debate, and what i really liked, because you and i know aboutç politicians and ho they are behind the cloak rooms between the parties when they are normal people. they had hamburgers together at star diner. they get the midnight train back to washington together, capital

limited and flip a coin, whatever, for the top bunk, like "north by northwest" with a somewhat different ending, of course. kennedy on the top bunk, nixon wins the toss and get the bottom bunk and these two guys who have been in the war together, talk about a coming war and talking about how they will have to define this new struggle with the soviet union having won the war in south pacific. it's an amazing story of generations emerging, the young officer corps replacing the old generals like eisenhower. imagine that scene of the two guys on the bunk and top bunk. they should make a real movie of jack kennedy, and they should have that in there. >> they should. another detail of the kennedy life, i didn't know about this, 1947 debate which really was a pre-cursor to what happened 13 years later where -- where nixon

came out punching. you explain it, but, gene, jfk within on points. he played the crowd. he knew he had union guys with him so he reached out to the business people. >> did you like the thing about -- where you're at right now at nbc studios in washington. the second debate comes out. nixon had sweated profusely all over his lips in the first presidential debate so the nixon people said we've got to lower the temperature there in nebraska where you are right now and they lowered the temperature to like 30 or 40, like a meat locker. kennedy, bobby shows up and jack shows up and they are there with their tv guide billç wilson. what is going on here, why is it so cold in the studio? they could see their breath. bill wilson goes down to the basement of the building where you're in right now and finds the thermostat, turns it up and fights with the nixon guys. if you don't get out of my ways i'm calling the cops. they had this sort of struggle. this brouhaha over what the temperature should be. this is what politics -- you know what it's like in the back

room. it's fighting for any edge you can get in a situation like that. >> gene robinson here. >> hi, gene. >> where did his core political philosophy come from? where did he get his politics? >> well, he evolved. he clearly was a slow mover from the right to the center, over to the center left i think you would say by terms of even today. he was definitely his father's son in the sense of being a conservative on economics. he was definitely different than his father and he supported the war against hitler. his father was all wrong on hitler. jack said we've go the to fight him. the british should have fought him earlier and should have been prepared to fight him. baldwin was wrong, the prime minister of britain. churchill was right, thud have been armed in '35 and '37 and go after him. we definitely had to arm and face him down. with great insight, joe, his father was such a narrow thinking business guy.

he wanted the western markets to fall to communism so he'd have a better business. we're still fighting those fights today and then he evolved. after 56 when he lost that fight for the vp thing, gene, i think he knew he had to move to the left because the stevenson crowd dominated the party. they were still the old roosevelt crowd. he began to take stieps to show he was more liberal, giving the algerian speech saying they should take the side of the algeria rather than the french. deep down he still had a conservative gut, i believe. >> chris, a great couple of lines here in the preface, explaining why jack kennedy was so different. i'm going to read this. before jack came along politics mostly meant gray men in three-piece suits, indoro like, sexless, dewey, taft, eisenhower, nixon what. he did was gripped the country, quickening us. what do you mean by that? >> he shook this up.

i love the fact that in a poll taken in late 2009 they asked people who should be on mt. rushmore and, of course, there's competition not there now. of course, it's washington, jefferson, lincoln and the great teddy roosevelt. you would think fdr. you would think reagan more recently. he would beat him both. i think people see him as a hero, a can-do guy. let's put a man on the moon, beat the russians. they have been beating our butt and he got john glenn orbiting the earth and started to beat the russians and nixon was there when he got there. we can do civil rights. went to war with george wallace, did stuff and stood up with the king family. sent the peace corps around the world. he said to people we can do it and the big difference between him and obama, and i'm not knocking him, everybody knows i like him but it's all this i, i, i. aren't i brilliant, aren't i amazing. kennedy challenged the country to do things.

the kennedys said you can do it. join me. i need you. it was always people asking to volunteer and be part of something bigger. >> michael steele. >> hey, chris, congratulations, man. this is -- >> you'll love thisç book, michael. >> i know. i'm excited about it and looking forward to getting into it, and i note in it you talk about some of the philosophy obviously of jack, but in particular i took note of the passage they put emphasis on rights rather than responsibilities. >> yeah. >> as part of his criticism of the new deal. >> it's me all the way. and how -- how would a jack kennedy fit into this economic climate today? what would he be saying to the country today that maybe we haven't heard or maybe he would say it differently? what do you think his impact would be? >> well, i think he was a keynesian in the sense we argue about does government a volin stimulating the economy but his big move was spend money on defense and the space program and cut taxes, too.

wanted to get the economy moving with tax cuts. where your party was off base now and on base then. he wasn't for tax breaks for the rich people but he did believe in tax incentives, big across-the-board cuts, and the funny thing back then the business community opposed them. you know how these things change every couple of cycles, different parties change sides, but i think he's suspicious of big business. went after big steel. he would have been tough on wall street today, particularly personalities in terms of lobbying power, but generally i think he understood that we were a capitalist economy and had to be that way and that was the way to grow. >> chris, we want to ask you about the ask not line. >> oh, yeah. >> but there's so many great stories in here. >> unbelievable. >> i'm reading chapter 7 "magic" and it starts with the story about mary davis and a conversation between jack and tip o'neill. she's asking for a raise. she wants $6,000. she says i'm paying her $4,000 and i've offered her $4,800.

that's a 20% raise but this guy wants to give her six grand for the first day he'sç here. there's not a broad in the world worth 6,000 a day. >> those were the days. sounds like frank sinatra. >> boy, we have changed, i hope. >> he didn't budge. >> that was in the days when men ran the show. >> yeah. >> think about "mad men." it's a time when men were -- the secretaries and the men ran the show, the senior secretaries. fighting and duking it out with one of these della street types, mary davidson, ran the show and did all the work for him. by the way, not only did she do all the work. how many times have you done this, joe? go back to your congressional office, there's a bunch of guys from the district. you don't know their names but you've got to fake it. he would take them into his inner office and say just a minute i've got to do something right now. who the heck are these people and then he would go in and say hi, joe, hi, mary, how you

doing? she would cover for him politically and she was just tired. he gets elected to the senate and wants somebody from each ethnic group, polish woman, italian woman, blah, blah, blah. mary said i went out and hired the best we had, probably all irish and he said we can't do that anymore and i went to people who had experience and jack said, no, we have to have other ambitions here so he was already thinking nationally and building a diverse staff. >> so as we wrap it up, let's talk about the relationship between jack and jackie. >> oh. >> you see a fascinating new dimension here. >> yeah. >> and you see jackie after -- after dallas talking to teddy white, grappling with the bad and the good in all men. >> yes. >> and reconciling it out, but it sounds like jackie is very much a woman who was deeply in love with a husband who didn't always treat her well. i thought that was fascinating, and also fascinating that teddy white took this interview and you deconstructed it, and he

seemed to put a little bit of polish on jackie's words. >> he loved jackie. >> he covered for her. >> a week after dallas, gets called up there in the rain. it's a bad rainstorm. he's up in the dark. out of the movies again. he goes up there. she's looking like a million bucks as always, gigantic eyes, beautiful -- just beautiful and she's looking at him, the widow of the guy who had just been killed and, of course, he's going to cut her a break. she said all men are a combination of bad and good. it's in the notes. got his scibbled notes in this type script and did say his mother never loved him. i kept it out. it's all these years later. i think jackie kennedy, gone through all the tapes that caroline brought out. jackie was totally utterly in love with her husband, the most perfect bride you could have in every way. i mean, anything you can tell about her was just living for the guy and being beautiful for the guy and being wonderful for him and making a home for him and making him happy every night and chasing after that gurney, that piece of tape we found, of film, of her chasing after the

gurney at parkland hospital when her husband had been kill. just in love with this guy, and yet he wasn't faithful. he just did stuff that just hurt her. he didn't come back from europe when he was over there having fun with his buddies when she had the miscarriage in '56. he did cast her aside after winning the west virginia primary that night and just ignored her. you know, i think she was right. all men are a combination of bad and good, and that's the way she saw him and yet, yet, they had a marriage which was in many ways complete. if you look at tapes and what i've been able to dig up, they went to bed every night they were there. they listened to the victrolla, the record player. she knew all the emotional ups andç downs of this guy's life. she rooted for him. new about the onion's burke fight back in '56. totally engaged with her husband, a wonderful wife and one of the parts i cannot either defend or explain. i can explain a lot of the friendships with the guys because we've had friends with guys.

we know what friendship means. this marriage thing is almost uncrackable, but if you read the book you'll see all around through it, and can you try to figure it out yourself. maybe it's just one of life's mysteries that love is unfair. >> and, chris, the ask not line, conventional wisdom, what's the truth. >> jack kennedy wrote it based on what his headmaster said at chapel. he said of the young youth, should speak of his alma mater, not to ask what the alma mater can do for him, but for her. i got it out. i found the secret of the nile. >> how fascinating. to willie, this is the same guy that tried to kick jack kennedy out of choate until the old man came up, and he had the classic line. he created -- that jack created this group called the muckers, and that's what actually the old man called them, and -- and

after he got limp kicked out, chris, what did joe kennedy tell his son about what he would call them? >> he said you're not your father's son. i would have begun it but not with an "m." i don't need to go further. >> no, you don't. >> chris, thank you so much. >> thank you for this interducks to the book. i hope everybody -- it's my life's work here, thank you. >> and the book is full of these stories called ""jack kennedy: elusive hero." chris, congratulations. thanks. >> thank çyou, willie. >> we'll be right back. ♪

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let's get a check on business before the bell with cnbc's melissa francis. she's live at cnbc headquarters. melissa, what is up with the greeks? >> it is a hot mess. i've got to tell you. they are having this referendum. it is on. they are going to have a referendum on whether or not they want to be part of the bailout process, whether they want to be bailed out or not. let me show you some of the responses. to say that the eurozone was shocked is sort of an understatement as european leaders react. my favorite is from the world bank's zoellick saying, well, that's a roll of the dice. couldn't include a response from

angela merkel because it was all german curse words. no, i'm kidding. prime minister papandreou is getting called to the principal's office today. will meet with eurozone leaders who will ask him what the heck are you doing? this is greece's only chance to stay solvent and make payments on the debt is to get this bailout and they are saying maybe we don't want it after all. we saw the markets tank yesterday in europe and here in the u.s., and everyone is sort of holding their breath. this creates a lot of uncertainty now again for weeks and weeks down the road. one economist called it euthnophonio, the fear of responsibility. and we thought we this problem solve and the greeks themselves throwing a huge monkey wrench in it. >> absolutely crazy. let's go from greece to united states. >> okay. >> bank of america, sounds like the 99% rose up. what happened? >> well, you know, when they instituted all the regulation on banks and said that they weren't going to be able to charge this fee and that fee, the bank said

at the time this is the cost of doing business. we have a responsibility to our shareholders. thee fees are just going to bubble up somewhere else so they came in with the debit card fees. now the banks are set aside. you better read your statement really closely. >> yeah. >> because there's going to be a fee somewhere else to make up for this. it's just -- they would say it's the cost of doing business, that if you don't want -- if you don't want to pay, it then don't have a credit card from our bank. don't keep your money here. they are not making money on storing your money right now, so, i don't know. this is -- this is just the next sort of volley in this battle, but read your credit card statement closely. >> i'm going to find a good community bank. >> you'll get charged for using another atm, mika. >> mattress is always good. but can you imagine if melissa francis moved her money to a community bank. oh, my gosh. >> too big to fail. >> see, you're trying to turn that back on me. >> melissa, thank you. we'll be right back. >> thank you, melissa.

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