due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. >> msnbc takes you behind the walls of america's most notorious prisons into a world of chaos and danger. now, the scenes you've never seen, "lockup: raw." >> what did i tell you way ahead of time? leave that alone. let god take care of that. it ain't your business to take care of that, man. >> they are the prison stories best described by one word. >> when i came to prison i was a kid. hi to do what i had to do to survive. >> you don't know how many men you've infected with hiv? >> probably enough. >> he was convicted of three rapes but he told us he had

raped 22 women total. >> after performing the rapes i would literally scare these women to death. >> and the word is -- >> when i talk to people about "lockup" they're really surprised when i tell them our lead field producer is a woman, susan carney. and she does a great job of capturing life behind bars in very, very difficult environment. she sat across from serial killers, rapists. she's seen stabbings. it's amazing how she keeps her cool even when inmates cross the line with her. >> and one of those times would involve a particular rule violation that occurred dozens of times during our stay at the holman correctional facility in alabama. >> there was an unusual phenomenon at holman prison. they had a big problem with public masturbation. they were dealing with the problem as best they can.

if a person got caught, they were immediately put into lockup and they had to go through certain programs in order to get out of lockup. >> the violation is known as rule 38. and the prison's warden had developed a no-nonsense approach to dealing with it. >> my rule is, if you get caught with a 38, there's no questions asked. we're locking you up. we'll sort it out later, but for the time being, you're going to lockup. that's just automatic. okay? the first offense is 90 days, second time i double it, third time it goes to 270, the fourth time it's a year. >> but it happened a lot for some reason there. it was getting to the point where, particularly in the lockdown facility, you'd walk down the tier and all you'd see are hands going. it gets pretty unnerving after a while. i attribute it to the fact that there were a tremendous amount of very young men locked up there, with very long sentences. and this was just one way they decided to manifest their sexuality.

>> if there's a female that excite me sexually, you know what i'm saying, you know, i tend to expose myself to them if i take a liking to them, right. >> why? >> because it's the only way to get sexual healing, you know what i'm saying? ain't no sex magazine in the prison no more. they took all that out of the alabama prison system. >> inmate terrence mosley was a frequent rule 38 violator. >> it just thing i got for women, you know what i'm saying. to okay, i got to go through all this here just because i like women, then i got to go through it. >> okay, you like women, but that offends women. it offends women. >> i might have to find something else to do then. >> for chronic rule 38 violators, that something else might be finding a higher power.

>> i was a fellowship, a man who share our experience, strength and hope that we might solve our common problem and hopefully to recover from the sexual addiction. the only requirement for membership is the desire to stop compulsive sexual behavior. >> besides going to lockup, inmates caught exposing themselves must also attend sex and love addicts' meetings. moderated by a staff counselor, they're similar to alcoholics anonymous meetings. >> i used to tell myself, there ain't no problem with me. getting up every morning, going to find women to masturbate in front of. i used to say, that's a choice i'm making. >> we discovered that johnny perkins, serving a life sentence for attempted murder and robbery, was a veteran of the group and an authority on rule 38. >> when i first came to prison, in '86, it was unheard of. you know, public masturbating, you know. i think maybe i was one of the

first that really started. i have over 20 years experience in doing this. i guess because i don't know, i guess, the excitement, i guess. or just feeling some type of connection because i know that's a woman and i know she's seen me, you feel? >> it was clear from talking to him that he had been caught enough, locked up enough, to the point where he really had the system worked out. >> i still get up every morning, go around the whole institution where i can go, to see where the females is working. even if a female is working in a particular spot where i feel like i can masturbate in her presence and get away with it, because that's part of it, getting away. not going to lockup for it. >> though we had covered the sex and love addicts' group, interviewed both staff and inmates about rule 38 and had

been exposed to numerous examples of the violation, we weren't quite done with it. ♪ then it was more than it was an angel ♪ ♪ off in the streets in the clubs looking for danger ♪ ♪ and every thug that knew we was there ♪ ♪ lap dances and taking chances without a care ♪ >> stop. >> when we heard anthony patterson and eric blanding rehearsing on the yard, we had no idea we would soon be in the middle of another rule 38 drama. >> i'm saying it's going to be a masterpiece and i think i want the world to hear it. you know what i'm saying? to see if he's got a gift. the guys in here still have. i got a sensitive side, don't think that my demeanor, this patch, it's not me, you know what i'm saying? i might look like damn, he's a thug, [ bleep ]. i'm a good guy. >> we were wrapping up for the day. you know, he shook my hand. i said good-bye, i turned my back on him and started talking to another inmate. pretty soon after that, an officer came running by us, saying that guy anthony you were just talking to is going into lockup. we grabbed our camera, ran with the officer, trying to find out

what was going on. we found out that anthony was observed publicly masturbating behind me, from what i understand. >> they're taking him to lockup, and as they're stripping him out, they find that he's holding a joint, a marijuana cigarette. so now everything is compounded. now he's going to be in more trouble. >> what happened? >> dude, somehow i had this weed in my pocket. he found a joint in my pocket and he said i was masturbating on you. did you ever see me masturbating on you? >> i didn't see anything. >> he's telling me, did you see me do anything? did you see me do anything? honestly, i didn't. the officer witnessed it and he made that very clear. he said, i saw you masturbating. it doesn't matter if she sees you or not. but i saw you, you're going to lockup. >> it's not what she saw. >> okay, so basically, you're accusing me of rule 38, right? >> he kept denying up and down that he had done anything. but the officer saw what he saw. >> he locked me up for -- >> for having your penis out indecently exposed using it for

something other than urinating. >> with rule 38 working its way back into our story lines, we returned to johnny perkins for more insight. >> see, everywhere you go, if you're down the hall you're going to have inmates watching y'all, really watching the women because anytime a woman come around, they want to watch and some will be trying to masturbate. >> at one point during the interview he was looking directly at me and he said, i was stalking you all, but there were already too many people around you. so i had a hard time, i decided not to take the chance. >> when you all first started coming here, i stalked y'all for a couple days. but i see everywhere you all went, you had a crowd, and that's not me trying to masturbate around a whole bunch of people. i'm into one-on-one. >> so there was me, and a female colleague who worked on the camera crew and there had been one day when she and i were

working together, and we both kept seeing something out of the corner of our eye. i'd see a hand flashing, we'd look up and i would quickly see a guy jump around the corner and this happened over and over again, to the point where i thought i was going insane. and we realized after johnny's interview, it was him. he was stalking us, he was trying to get our attention. but we did always have security staff around us. so he didn't want to get caught again. >> my first question to you is, you don't think of it as a problem. >> right. >> if i told you it's a problem for me -- >> right. >> -- now what? >> the truth? if i caught you in the right position, it wouldn't matter. i would still try to masturbate in your presence. >> even if it upset me? >> even if it upset you. because i know a lady told me, don't you consider that to be mentally raping her, disrespecting her or, you know, and so on, et cetera. but i guess at that time, it's not about you. it's about me.

and what i want to do. yeah, it's sick, i know it's sick. i'm not normal. i know i'm not normal. the average man is not normal. because we wouldn't be sitting in here if we were normal. coming up -- >> i killed her with a big knife. >> why? >> because i had no gun with me. >> in belgium, a bizarre interview about murder is interrupted by a jewelry delivery. >> an officer is bringing shawn a watch. and everything had to stop. and later -- >> i had been to elmer's, just walking around a shopping center, waiting for my next victim. >> one of our most chilling interviews, explores the mind of a serial rapist. you're not going to make that meeting... the kids are gonna miss their game... and you could be stranded for hours!

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"lockup" has been documenting life in some of america's most hard-core maximum security prisons since the year 2000. in 2009 we went behind the walls of prisons overseas for the first time on "lockup: world tour." we discovered that while many of the challenges facing these prisons were the same, the differences were startling. that was especially true when we visited prisons in belgium. among other things, we learned that when an inmate escapes from a belgian prison, authorities will try to catch him, but not charge him with an additional crime. >> the law that says the effect of escaping is not a crime. but they can do another crime. for example, if they escape with their prison clothes, keeping the prison clothes is a crime. unless they send the clothes back. and in the past we have someone who escaped, jumping out of the

window. after two, three days, we get the clothes back washed and cleaned. so he didn't make any crime. >> and even though belgium has one of the world's lowest crime rates, we met our share of murderers there as well. but shawn schaeffer's interview was one of the more unusual ones we conducted. we met him in the segregation unit of prison haselt, a maximum security facility. >> on 30 december, i killed my wife. >> okay. why and how? >> i killed her with a big knife. >> why? >> because i had no gun with me. >> okay. but why did you kill her? >> oh, why? i was very, very angry that she

want to leave. for her, no problem, huh? but she wants to take my son. and she wants to move with the son to germany. >> schaeffer, a korean adopted by a dutch family, said he had outstanding charges in germany, that could have led to a two-year sentence if he followed his wife into the country. after arguing, he stabbed her numerous times. >> three times in the neck. two times in the back. two, three, the total was ten stabs with a big knife. >> how big? >> kitchen knife. >> in the middle of the interview, something unusual happened. >> we're in the middle of this interview with shawn and i noticed a distraction coming over my right side, and it was actually an officer. he was holding a wrist watch that apparently shawn had placed an order for a couple of days prior. >> it was very important for shawn to check this watch out to

make sure it's exactly what he wanted. he had ordered it, he had to make sure it was what he needed. and everything had to stop. >> that's the man for my watch. i must, if it's not good, i must give it back. i must see the watch. what do i have here? my wife is killed. i don't see my child. only i can buy maybe nice watches. >> the officer brought it to him almost like a merchant. >> let's see the watch, shawn, show brian. >> how much did that watch cost? >> not so much. 320 euros, $500. >> he looked at it, showed it to us, packed it away and we resumed the interview. it was a very unusual

experience. >> you bought a watch in prison? >> yes, you can buy everything here. >> how do you have so much money in prison? >> after the interview, schaeffer invited us inside his cell where he showed us a few of the many watches he has purchased in prison. >> this is a guess, you know guess, yeah? america, you know, huh? but i have at home, much watches, i don't allowed to bring to the prison, so i must always buy new watch that i want. >> not long after receiving his new watch, schaeffer's thoughts turn to corry, the woman he killed. >> i think of corry and that's very strange, never. never is a big word, but i only think of my dog, my cars, my house, my girlfriend, my son. and corry, i think i want to block it. i think. she's the reason why i'm here. >> schaeffer says the couple's 3-year-old son now lives with

his sister. >> he gets everything he wants. love, money. he has it very good now. >> but he doesn't have a mother and he doesn't have a father. >> he's like the same like me. when i was adopted. i don't know my parents, also. coming up -- >> this is the guy we're all told to fear and to defend ourselves against. >> after performing the rapes, physical rapes, i would literally scare these women to death. >> in a rare interview, a serial rapist opens up about how and why he committed his heinous crimes. no pie today, ted?

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it's not uncommon for hard-core inmates to share the grisly details of their crimes with us. but rapists almost never do. an inmate at the penitentiary of

new mexico proved to be an exception. >> this inmate was every woman's worst nightmare. this is the guy we're all told to fear and to defend ourselves against. >> i'm a serial rapist. i've been convicted in new mexico on three separate occasions for rape. >> he was convicted of three rapes, but he told us he had raped 22 women total. so i knew there were 19 other women out there who he had attacked and terrified. he wanted to remain anonymous, because he was getting out soon and he didn't want any of these victims to see him, because then he'd have to go back into prison. >> when we met him, he was coming up for parole on a 44-year sentence and it wasn't his first time in prison.

>> my first rape was in 1975. and i picked up two to ten years on that and i served two. and i was released on parole, i lasted about a week and again was picked up and charged with a rape. i was returned to the santa fe state penitentiary from 1980 to 1986 when i was released again on parole. i lasted on that parole, for about two weeks. and then i began again, serial raping. >> in this rare interview, the inmate went into great detail about the preparations, tactics and execution of his crimes. and while his comments are disturbing, they offer valuable insight into the mind of a dangerous criminal. >> before i would start committing my rapes, i would prepare my sites. this would take at least between a week or two weeks to get set up. i would find isolated places on all four sides of a city, places with no houses within a given distance.

each of my locations i would have at least three escape routes. >> once his preparations were made, he would look for his victim. >> shopping centers is a major hunting ground for me. laundromats. college campuses, places generally where they have parking lots. >> i felt there was tremendous value in doing this interview. even though he wouldn't be identified, he gave us a complete breakdown of how he was able to perpetrate these crimes. for me, it was a true cautionary tale. >> and i would spend hours just walking around shopping centers, waiting to select a victim. >> women who were alone in a store, who were completely alone, so he could follow them and he knew they would go back to their car and they would have no one there to help them. >> once i picked out a victim, i would follow the victim until

they returned to their cars and i would pull a weapon, in my case, a knife. and i would force them to get into their cars. >> what i took away from that information was to try to be constantly vigilant and aware, particularly in a parking lot. particularly when you're getting into your car. that's a common place for women to be attacked. >> how did you drive and keep them in the car? i'm not clear. were they just so struck with terror? >> for the most part, yes, ma'am. they were terrorized. on a few occasions i would force them down on the floorboard of the car to where i could keep an eye on them. i would try to keep the speed at such a fast clip, so that jumping out would not be an option. as soon as we arrived at these sites, i would immediately have them strip down naked. and i would force them to put their clothing and their handbags in the back seat. this is partly because you never know what a woman has in her

purse. for all i know, they could have a pistol. a knife of their own. mace. whatever. so that would be the first thing i would do. plus it keeps the female from, if they're nude, they don't have a tendency to run away. so -- i guess another psychological factor. >> what was the knife? >> the knife was on me at all times. and after i disrobed and i was fixing to commence sexual intercourse, i would have the knife stuck in the ground near the mattress. it would be within reach. then i would strip down, and i would rape them. i would sometimes keep my victims anywhere from three to five hours at a time.

>> seemingly, he was pretty bold about how he did his crimes. because of the fact he would always reveal himself. these women would know who he is. but the fact is, "a," he was a very big guy. i mean he had been in prison for a while when we met him. so i can only imagine when he was younger, how much more powerful he was. but also, the way he was able to not get caught for the most part was the threat he imposed on each and every one of his victims. >> intimidation was my big play. i would literally, after performing the rapes, the physical rapes, i would literally scare these women to death. coming up -- >> my motivation for becoming a serial rapist actually extends back to when i was 18 years old. >> our interview continues. back to "lockup."

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due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. during our stay at the penitentiary of new mexico, our producer conducted an interview with a serial rapist, who would soon be completing his prison term and returning to society. the inmate agreed to the

interview on the condition of anonymity. what he had to say is disturbing, but provides a rare insight into the mind of a serial rapist. >> after performing the rapes, the physical rapes, i would literally scare these women to death. what i would do is go into a victim's purse, i would find address books, i would take their driver's license out of their purse. and i would say, okay, now i know where you live. i know where you work. i know where your kids go to school. if you ever report this to the police, i will come back. i will kill you, i'll kill your family. and i would make my threats as real as possible. and nine times out of ten, they would try to reassure me that

that would never happen. >> when he decided he was done, he would drive his victim back to the parking lot where he had kidnapped her, return to his car and drive home, often with what he described as a trophy. >> did you take jewelry? >> rings. earrings, watches. necklaces. an item that would let me recall a particular victim. >> during the course of the interview, when he was telling me about these situations, i couldn't help but flash on these women. i was wondering how they were, how their lives had gone. had they been able to go on? it just kept haunting me. so i kept asking him -- why? >> my motivation for becoming a serial rapist, actually extends back to when i was 18 years old. i knowingly and willingly

declared war on society. i decided that this would be the ultimate crime against society, that would earn me the most despicable reputation, if you will. i wanted to ruin my name simply because i hate my father. >> you have all of this anger and hatred for your father, and yet, you victimize women. >> my motive wasn't necessarily victimizing the women, it was performing the crime that is viewed by society as being detestable. does that clarify it for you? i'm trying not to say, i'm trying not to sound totally insane, but this is the motivation. >> but you take your rage out on women. that's all, i just found that interesting, you hate your father so much. you seem to love your mother. >> i do.

i do. >> when we met him, this inmate had completed the first six months of an intensive 18-month sex offender rehabilitation program. >> it's just time for a change. you know, i've got, when i walk out this time, i'll be 60 years old. and i'm not going to have that much longer left, anyway, and i want to enjoy it the best i can. >> he claims this rehabilitation program has helped him empathize with his victims, and he says he does feel remorse. >> i know it sounds pretty lame, but i would want them to know that i am sorry for what i did. >> he apologized to his victims, but the problem with that is, he's not making himself recognizable to his victims. you know, he's not truly standing up and taking responsibility to the very people he hurt. >> i didn't hurt them physically. mentally is another question,

you know. they were, they were pretty thoroughly frightened. >> you didn't hurt them physically? >> well, outside of the rape. i'm talking about i didn't beat on them, i didn't slice them up, i didn't cut them, i didn't harm them physically other than the sexual intercourse. >> he did hurt these women when he raped them, emotionally, physically, psychologically, he completely altered their lives. and to me, he was minimizing his behavior. >> approximately one year after our interview, the inmate completed his sex offender rehabilitation program and came up for parole. he was denied and had to remain in prison. but not for long. his 44-year sentence was reduced by approximately half due to good behavior, meaning he only had another year to serve before being released. >> i would be interested to know how he's doing. and if he's gotten himself into any more trouble. but the problem with that is, he had 19 victims for which he was never caught. so there's no real way of knowing if he's acting out again unless he gets caught.

coming up, a former prostitute's drug addiction leads to frightening consequences. >> so you don't know how many men you infected with hiv? >> probably enough. im me. g caarde

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in most maximum-security prisons, people convicted of sex-related crimes are the outcasts of the inmate population. they're often housed in protective custody to keep others from beating or killing them. >> these type of offenders

rarely discuss the details of their crime. and when they do, it can be tough to take. but there's value to their stories. they're cautionary tales. >> we met tammy dietz at the tennessee prison for women. but initially, it wasn't her crime that caught our attention. it was her disability. >> what is it like being deaf in prison? >> it's not fun. it's not. you know, you got a lot of bullies here. a lot of them make fun of me, you know, all the time. >> dietz has been deaf since birth. >> i know sign language, i read lips, and i've just been reading lips. >> but as a young woman, it wasn't her hearing that caused her life to unravel, it was a crack addiction. >> fighting, i couldn't find crack, if i couldn't find crack, i'd do heroin, you know. >> her addiction led to a life of prostitution and several arrests. she's currently serving three

years not just for prostitution, but aggravated prostitution. >> tell me what aggravated prostitution means. >> what it means is that knowing that you have hiv and you're out there on the corner, walking, trying to get dates. >> dietz was first diagnosed with hiv in 1999. >> so from 1999 to when you were incarcerated, how many -- how many customers, how many tricks do you think you had? >> how many? i can't count them. i mean i don't know if i infected anybody. but i can only imagine that i'm pretty sure that i have. but i just don't want to think that i did, you know. it's not good. >> did you use condoms? >> well, no. no. not always. but i do try to carry them on me.

when i do a lot of them have them, don't even want to wear them. they say no, you know. when i'm desperate for the next hit and that, i've got $30, $40 offered and i've got a condom and they tell me no, i'm not going to pass up the $30, $40. >> i was struck by tammy's willingness to talk honestly about her past. when she described the crimes, she almost came across to us as warning people. >> so you don't know how many men you infected, possibly infected with hiv? >> probably enough. i don't know, i can't tell you how many, because i don't know. but all i can tell you i've been with enough men that -- i hate to think that i did it, you know. >> so let's think about that, tammy. here's a chance, where were you a prostitute? why don't you talk about the area you worked as a prostitute, and from what years. so if somebody is watching this and they recognize you, maybe

they could get themselves tested, right? >> well, but that doesn't mean that they probably got it from me because there's probably, i would not be the only one that they've been with. so they can't determine. there's no fact that my blood was in your blood, you got it from me, i got it from you. or whatever, what not. because you know what, i could have tried to find out who i got it from. it wouldn't work that way. and vice versa. i've been with so many men, he's been with so many women. he don't know if he got it from me or he got it from the next one. >> dietz later told us that most of her prostitution activity after contracting hiv occurred between 1998 and 2001 in knoxville, tennessee. >> how is your health? you have hiv. >> i'm great. i'm, i don't, i don't even feel sick. i mean, physically, i don't. but emotionally, i do.

at times. mentally, mentally, you know, when i think about it, you know. and it's not good. >> if dietz didn't consider the well-being of her clients, she did give some thought to her three children. she gave them up for adoption knowing her drug addiction made parenting impossible. >> why are you crying? >> because i miss my kids. i envy those that got to raise them. i wish i had a vision of what drugs did to people. i think i wouldn't be in here today. >> tell me what's going to be different when you go out next year.

when you are released from prison next year, what will be different? >> what will be different? well, i have one choice, to live, be out there with my children again, my family. or come back in. or be dead in the ghetto. that's all i can say. and i have to do it. i have to do it. i can't come back. i'm 39, i'm getting too old for this, too old. i can't do this no more. i can't do it. coming up -- >> get the cable fixed. >> an old con teaches a new arrival a thing or two about the convict code. >> what did i tell you? way ahead of time, leave that alone, let god take care of that. it ain't your business to take care of that, man.

we visited indiana state prison just shy of its 150th anniversary. it was established in 1860, one

year before the civil war and has housed the state's most infamous criminals. john dillinger did time here in 1929. and four years later, masterminded the escape of 11 members of his gang. it's been through changes over the years, but it's still a prison with old school bars and old school convicts who don't want to be mistaken for inmates. >> convicts treat you the way you treat them. treat them with respect, they treat you with respect. inmates are the guys who talk bad about you, yell at you, swear at you. no matter how you treat them. treat them with respect and you don't get anything like that in return. isp is slowly going from convict to inmate, because we're getting a lot of younger kids in here who are not used to prison life. >> a convict's the one who minds his own business.

he don't get off in other people's business. what he sees he keeps to himself. it's none of his business. inmates are one that would tell in a minute. they're rats. i'm a straight convict. i'm not an inmate. >> robert spears was your typical convict. he had done a lot of time. he had lived very distinctly by the convict code and he was very accepting of his situation. he didn't complain. he didn't blame anybody. he was a tough guy. >> when i came to prison, i was a kid. i had to do what i had to do to survive and i'm not proud of the things sometimes that i had to do. some people has to be hurt, i've been hurt. you know what i mean? but that's just the way of life here. >> spears has tangled with the law for most of his life and is serving 28 years for dealing a controlled substance. >> i got plenty of regrets. for one, is that the time that i've lost, i regret leaving my kids, you know what i mean? i had to make my son believe that i was in the army because i don't want him growing up thinking my dad was in prison.

if i could go back and change time, i'd live a whole different life. but this is what i done. and, i mean, you can regret it every day, but the only thing you can do is change it, you know what i mean? this is no life no more. see what i'm talking about? just like being here right now, you just don't hurt yourself. you hurt actually the people that cares about you out there. a reputation follows you forever. you know what i mean? no matter how much of my life i know i can be a better person, i still have that reputation that i'm a cold-blooded person. >> though spears appeared ready to be a man who is more than a convict, we didn't expect to see the drama that would unfold between him and a young inmate who had arrived four months earlier. at first glance, josh harrison serving 20 years on seven counts of armed robbery was the type of young, impulsive inmate old convicts like spears despise. >> well, i was here for approximately two weeks and they came and put me on a "d," which

is administrative segregation because my past violent behavior. battery, my robbery cases, beating up staff. >> get the cable fixed. >> ain't no reason for me to get a [ bleep ] writeup. she's going to write it up and i'll rip it out. point blank, it's simple. i'm rip this whole [ bleep ] out. >> i call him youngster. that's his nickname. if you want me to call him josh, i'll go by josh but his name to me is youngster. i met his father years ago, his real dad. you know what i mean? years ago in prison. we got along pretty well. we wasn't real tight, but i respected each other. i heard a lot about little josh, what he was doing and how he was getting in trouble and stuff. >> tell me about your relationship. how long have you known him? what's it been like? >> we got to talking and he's really just a lonely kid, you know what i mean? he wants to be -- play tough, but actually, he just wants to know someone cares about him.

and he got to calling me dad, you know what i mean? i'm old enough -- i'm sorry about that, i'll old enough to be his dad. so, i'm hoping i can pull him up and maybe make him see that staying in trouble, you're going to do every bit of this, you know, the system will take the time in a minute. if you're ignorant, they got something for you. >> for harrison, staying out of trouble and earning every minute of good time is the difference between getting out in 10 years or 20. and for him, that's especially important. >> my fiance was 4 1/2 months pregnant with twins, a boy and a girl, when i caught this case. i haven't seen them for the past four, five months, and i've never actually been able to hold them or nothing. >> josh reminds me a lot of me when i was his age and i know what he's going through. he thinks he's got to prove something to people. he was hanging out with me out here and he was still running his mouth a little bit. so, i told him, look, man, you can't do that in here because if

you do, one of two things going to happen. you're going to end up hurting someone or you're going to end up getting hurt. >> he's been giving me good advice since i've known him. every time he sees me, he says, stay out of trouble, stay out of trouble. >> duck the trouble. don't look for it. stay away from it. >> but about halfway through our stay at indiana, josh harrison stepped right into the middle of trouble. during a shakedown of his dormitory, officers found a nine-inch knife hidden among his possessions. harrison said he was considering using it on another inmate, one who was convicted of killing his cousin. >> he's going to try to come with his little dumb story, you can believe that. oh, they was going to do something and he knows i'm not going to let no one do nothing to him, so that would be weak to me. in his heart he's got to prove that he's tough. he's probably like me. he feels a lot of pain, but he's

covering it up by trying to show violence, that's all that is. >> when robert found out that josh had been caught with a knife, he wanted to talk to him before josh went into lockup. so, you know, we were filming, we were following robert up there and i'm expecting, you know, the nice father/son kind of chat. and robert just lit into him. >> you think it's funny, don't you? you're a straight idiot. what you go get the knife for, for real? why did you get it? >> to do it on my cousin. >> what did i tell you, way ahead of time? leave that alone. let god take care of that. it ain't your business to take care of that, or you want someone raising your two little kids calling someone else dad? >> no. >> that was stupid, man. if i could get ahold of you, boy, i'd whoop you just for that reason. and i'd try to knock your teeth out just because i care about you, boy, to wake you up, not to hurt you but just to show you

that you're ignorant at times. you got a head, man, so you can't really tell me you're stupid because you're not, man. you know what i mean? if you was, i'd have cut you loose a long time ago. you know how i do it. >> this is prison life. josh wasn't going to get it any other way and this was how robert knew how to parent. >> i don't know about you, boy. you hurt my feelings, i can tell you that. you let me down. of all people, i thought you were going to come through. i told you time and time again, just listen to me, man, i'll keep you out of trouble and i'll get you out of here, but there's still a part of you trying to be that tough guy. >> it was hard core tough love because at the very end of this diatribe, robert basically says, i love you, man. let me know if you need anything. >> a lot of love, dude. wherever you go, i'll send word that a way. stay out of trouble. >> love you, bob. >> all right, see you later, man. >> yep. >> straight idiot, man. if i could hit him in his mouth right now, i would. >> while harrison was waiting for his disciplinary hearing on possessing a weapon, he got an additional writeup for slapping

another inmate. as a result of the two infractions, harrison lost 180 days of good time and was given a year and a half in segregation. that means he'll be separated from the general population, including the one man who might be his best hope for someday getting out of prison. >> josh is a little bit wild. he's not a convict. he's just a kid. that got no understanding. he's mad at the world right now. you know what i mean? he thinks the world owes him that, you know what i mean? i guess that's another thing. we make our own choices in life. if you lived a violent life in here and you don't try to change, you're going to live it out there and society's not going to accept that whatsoever.

due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. stop resisting! >> this is west hell. the conditions here are sub human. >> a jail made famous by its tent city and outspoken sheriff. >> here it is, 121 in the tents. now it's at the center of a new story. >> arpaio. >> last report, there's approximately 5,000 protesters. we have heightened security on the yard right now in case something does happen.

>> they demonstrate, call me hitler, assassinate me. what is this? just trying to do my job. about 140,000 inmates per year are booked into the maricopa county jail in phoenix, arizona. >> step up to the podium, please. okay. turn to the left for me. >> those charged with less serious crimes will likely have a court hearing and be released within a day or two, to await resolution of their charges. >> come on out.

>> but chronic offenders are those charged with violent crimes, could be held for weeks, months or even years. until their cases are tried and settled. during the intake process, these inmates are immediately separated from the others. >> so we put them in the isolation cells, but whenever we get here we do a walkaround. isn't he the one we dressed out yesterday? combative. this gentleman's isolated because he's combative with staff. so we wouldn't be surprised when he's ready to go upstairs for his permanent housing we get involved to move him, in case he starts fighting. >> unlike in prison, jail inmates often arrive fresh from a crime scene. the most dangerous are those who are still high or intoxicated. >> currently about seven out of every ten people that are booked in are under the influence of some form of drug. that's a big deal, because depending upon where the person is and what drug they took, is going to depend on their attitude. some people can have major mood swings where they might be cooperative one minute and then they could just go ballistic

another minute. >> i started yelling, doing his karate so i think he's training now. srt is here? okay. >> go, go, go! >> when inmates cause a disturbance in intake or any other part of the jail, ail s.w.a.t.-like unit known as srt, or the special response team, is summoned to quell the problem. >> calm down. come talk to me. calm down and come talk to me. you want to pull that route? you don't want to talk to us? i need you to step up and be cuffed okay? so i can move to you a different cell. okay? all right. jamming. i'm going to hit him hard. you got me?

>> when an inmate acts like this, the team must move him to a padded cell to prevent injury. but sometimes they must resort to force to make the move. >> stop resisting. back it up. take his clothes off of him. >> strip him down. strip him down. >> ah! ah! ah! >> don't move. roll him over. >> ah! >> stop resisting. >> okay. okay. >> you understand?

>> stop resisting. >> back up. >> good. >> are you guys okay? >> yeah, we're fine. anything else? everybody all right? no bites, no spit? >> eventually, this inmate and others like him will not only sober up but come to a sobering reality. until their cases are resolved, they will do time at maricopa. michelle lacy has been here for 2 1/2 months and could be facing several years in prison if she is convicted on various drug and weapon charges. >> somebody had heroin right now and put it in front of me, i

can't honestly say that i wouldn't justify being able to do it. you know what i mean? >> my baby wrote me a postcard the other day and says, when you come home, will you not do drugs? that sucks. >> the hardest thing about being in jail for lacy is being a mom. >> i want them to know that i'm here because i did drugs, not because i didn't love them or because no matter how you look at it, no matter how i want to say it, i put drugs before my kids. not intentionally, because i love them more than the air that i breathe, but i did. >> lacy's two boys are 10 and 5. her daughter, liberty, is about to turn 7. and the best lacy can do is to celebrate her birthday with her dorm mates using the few snack items they can purchase from the jail canteen. >> so tomorrow's liberty's

birthday and we're making her a honey bun rice krispie treat peanut butter and cupcake cake. just the bottom part of it is 2,000 calories. not even all of this stuff. this is the next layer of the cake. this is the cupcakes. this is massive sugar. >> looks pretty gross, huh? >> we put everything in a bag. >> oh, no. >> oh, yum. >> now it's in the blender. gross, huh? it's the bomb. this is the second layer of the mush. i washed my hands, i promise. [ laughter ] >> wow. perfect. >> all the m&ms? >> that's way too creative. we're just going to throw them bad boys on there. i'm not martha stewart. >> seven of them? >> yes, she's 7. colored pencils are utilities. we use them for everything. makeup, candles, toenail polish.

one, two, three, four, five, six, seven -- she's 7, guys. not 8. >> so there's her cake. okay. let's call her. hi, my princess. i miss you. you should see your birthday cake. we've got pretend candles. they're purple, orange, white, pink, yellow, blue and red. they're colored pencils. i can't wait to see you on sunday. i miss you. i'm sorry i'm not there, okay? i'm not crying. mommy doesn't cry. i love you. yeah. bye. oh. it sucks. >> yeah, this is way good. >> but even the sweetest dessert

does little to take the edge off life at maricopa. a jail designed in the vision of one man who is determined to make it the toughest jail in america. >> why is everybody afraid to say, when you do something wrong, you should be punished? [ male announcer ] what can you do with plain white rice? when you pour chunky beef with country vegetables soup over it... you can do dinner. four minutes, around four bucks. campbell's chunky. it's amazing what soup can do. you walk into a conventional mattress store, it's really not about you.

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let's do this and get out of here. stay where you're at. >> you don't have no privacy. knock it off. >> go over to the table. >> carry on, ladies. carry on. put some clothes on. >> the special response team at the maricopa county jail in phoenix, arizona, launches surprise raids for drugs, weapons and other contraband on a frequent basis. >> hey, make sure you watch her. >> take those out. >> keeping life unpredictable

and uncomfortable for the more than 9,000 inmates here is the expressed goal of the man who not only runs the jail, but whose vision has made it what it is. >> everybody decent here? >> he is the sheriff of maricopa county, joe arpaio. >> see, we used to punish our children in the old days. and we used to take privileges away when they did something wrong, so what's wrong with punishing the inmates and taking privileges away? they committed crimes. what is the difference? why is everybody afraid to say, when you do something wrong, you should be punished? >> over the last 18 years, arpaio has become internationally known for running what he calls america's toughest jail. >> so you were in the prison? >> yeah. >> you like it better here or the prison? >> i wasn't to go back. >> because it's nice, huh? >> in this county, don't violate the law because you're not going

into a hilton hotel. >> whether it truly is the toughest jail is debatable. but arpaio at least wants the inmates to believe it is. >> sometimes they yell at us from 12:00 at night until 12:00 the next day and then they wonder why we're unruly. we do get unruly on our own behalf, but sometimes we just get pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed. >> do teachers yell in the classroom? >> not 24 hours a day. >> well, i don't 24 hours a day. >> since first elected sheriff of maricopa county in 1992, arpaio has instituted a number of measures to give the jail its reputation. the most famous was the creation of an outdoor housing unit known as tent city. it is occupied only by inmates that have been convicted and are serving short sentences. >> they are korean war tents, they were free. we put up the tents next to the dump, the dog pound, because it

was freeland that we found. >> it's a combination of cadaver, rotten jerky and i think methane gas. >> that's the top of the pot right there. you really have to stir the bottom of this bouillabaisse nastiness to let it waft into your soul. >> john harrington has only been here a week but has already become a spokesman of sorts for the inmates. as tent city's chief critic. >> this is west hell. the conditions here are sub human. we've got planes running overhead 24/7. i think this was strategically placed right in the flight plans. the food conditions, the manner in which you're treated and spoken to. >> the first point of contention is the limited number of tv channels available on the jail's cable system. >> as a detroit lions fan i am personally offended we're only allowed to watch cardinals games and i missed the pistons game the other night too.

>> all i can say is, when in rome, do as the romans do. >> so, wait a minute, what you're advising is that i pillage, plunder and take over all people of color? >> no, what is meant by that phrase is when you visit another place. >> act as they do. >> exactly. exactly. so when in arizona, support the cardinals, the phoenix suns, the coyotes, arizona state university sun devils, if you have to, the wildcats and lumberjacks. that's what you've got. being from detroit i respect that. >> that's right. >> but in arizona incarceration, we do try to indoctrinate you into our philosophy of arizona sports. >> i shall amalgamate these feelings, these thoughts and, please pause while i vomit. >> but harrington has taken some matters into his own hands. including the extermination of tent city pests. >> it's a jailhouse mousetrap.

only 370,000 more to go. >> sheriff joe, if you are watching this, spent 24 hours in your own tents, eat your own food and then you survey your own damage. you know? >> i slept twice in that tent with all the inmates. just to say if i can do it they can do it. i go in the tents quite frequently. what have you got here? >> it's your postcard. joe camel. >> is this a bad check writer? anybody else? >> all my staff are worried, they're going to hit him and kill him. i don't worry about these guys. i feel safer in a jail than i do walking the streets in this town. >> is that your wife, sir? >> huh? >> is that your wife? >> you think i'd bring my wife to this place? you think i'm crazy? i have no problem. they don't like me. >> i just don't like this yard, period. >> well, why are you here? >> doesn't bother me at all. kind of like it.

this is 121, now it's snowing in detroit, and buffalo, here it is 121 in the tents. >> remember that. >> these are korean war tents. so in the summer it gets 145 in the summertime. so this is a great time to be in jail if you're going to jail. are you a technical scientist? >> yeah, i've been to college. >> really? >> i'd be a better criminal, though. >> at least you admit it. >> crime pays. it really does. >> where's mr. harrington? >> right here. >> how are you? >> i've had better days. >> do you like it in here? >> no, not at all. >> you don't? >> not at all. >> good. that means you won't come back. >> let me ask you a couple questions, then. is there any concern for other, you know, programming classes? >> we have religious programs. >> well, i can't attend any religious services. i work seven days a week at the

food factory. >> you work seven days a week? >> we all do. >> you're making a lot of money. >> we don't make a penny. >> i know you're sneaking a sandwich, you guys do. >> i'm sorry. i follow all the rules and regulations. >> you only have one sandwich? is it air-conditioned? >> where. >> in the kitchen. >> you want to talk about the equipment breakdowns we have in. >> you had a breakdown? >> we have a breakdown every single day. >> that's the county for you. they can't build anything that works. >> i wouldn't hold you accountable for one single thing here. this is your talk show. >> you've got to hold me accountable for running this jail. >> right. >> and for the tent city, i know it's tough sometimes, 140 degrees in the summer, but i shut everybody up, all my critics and media when i tell them that our men and women are fighting for our country and they're living in tents and they never committed a crime. >> what most people don't realize about tent city is if an

inmate refuses his assignment there, he will be moved back to an indoor facility. >> i hope you don't publicize that, because if we talk too much about it, i'll be called the nicest sheriff in america, instead of the toughest. coming up, michelle lacy's long-awaited reunion with her three children. and later, thousands of protesters march on the maricopa county jail. ♪ feel the power my young friend. mmm! [ male announcer ] for unsurpassed fruit and veggie nutrition... v8 v-fusion. could've had a v8.

michelle lacy, who could be facing years in prison if found guilty on various drug and weapons charges, has found ways to adapt to life in the maricopa county jail. she fights the monotony by frequently changing hairstyles and exchanging makeup with other inmates. >> and that's about as best as it gets right there. >> but being away from her three children is a much harder thing to adapt to. >> it's horrible.

that's like the hardest part. like i know i messed up and i need to pay my consequences or whatever, but that's the part that sucks the most is not seeing them. i talk to them like four times a week. but they've got so much going on. >> last night when i talked to her she was telling me how she got another award and how she wished i was there, so that just made me feel really bad. she goes, well, maybe you'll be there next time and i knew i wouldn't be. and i just told her, well, i'll try, but i don't know yet. because i know i won't be. >> but lacy has found a way to involve herself in her kids' lives. she's taking part in a new program at the jail where mothers are recorded on dvd reading books. the dvds are then sent to their children at home. and today lacy and one other inmate danielle valezuela are taking part in a reading event to promote the program. their participation comes with a substantial benefit. they will get to hug their children.

>> give me a kiss, papi. [ laughter ] >> many visits in maricopa only take place over video monitors. others occur in person, but the inmates are handcuffed to a table and not permitted to touch their loved ones. but today, lacy will be handcuff-free. >> my baby, huh. my baby. let me see you. are you getting green lights? are you getting green lights in school? promise? are you getting green lights? >> i got a green. >> you got a green? >> a whole week. >> a whole week of green? a whole week of green? are you getting green? you look sharp. >> it's a bracelet. not really pretty like the ones at home, huh?

>> you have a mad face. >> i have a mad face? not right now, though. i'm so glad you came here. he's so tall. i saw them a month ago but they just look so much bigger now. liberty looks like she grew a foot. my baby's starting to talk better, so that was cool. >> thank you for coming. i want to thank the families and the kids. literacy is, to me, a very important -- in this country. so this kills two birds with one stone, where the mother will be able to read a book into the camera and we will send the dvd to the kids. >> i miss derrick telling me he wants to cuddle because he's so big. and i miss doing liberty's hair and painting her nails and i miss the way, like i can't do

anything wrong. the baby just thinks like i'm just -- i used to cuddle them, and i miss the way they smell. my mom takes good care of them, though. she really does. >> so are you the drug problem? >> yes. >> you ought to try to go through our alpha program. >> okay. thank you. >> it's the best in the nation, our drug program. how long you going to be here? you haven't been sentenced? >> no, i haven't been sentenced. i haven't been -- >> let's get her through there. the drug program. >> thank you very much. >> okay. see you guys. >> okay. bye-bye. >> thank you. >> it made me look at him differently. i mean, i know everybody doesn't like him and everything, but he was really nice. he knew i was in here for drug charges and he wanted me to do the drug program. it was more rehab than me just being brushed through the system. i love you.

write me postcards and spray your cologne on it. and i'll see you at girl scouts, okay? you're going to be picking me up soon. i love you, too. >> i love you, too. >> i love you, mom. bye, mommy. >> bye, baby. >> love you. >> i love you more. i love you more than the air that i breathe. >> me too. >> i love you more than the air that i breathe. be good, okay? stay on green lights. ♪ >> bye, angels from heaven. >> bye, mommy. coming up -- >> calm down.

>> when pets go to jail. >> i bond more with the dogs here than the girls on the yard.

msnbc now. penn state former defensive coordinator arrested saturday on charges he sexually abused eight boys. jerry sandusky's attorney says he maintains his innocence. they took place from 1994 to 2009. joe fraser is seriously ill with liver cancer. he was diagnosed just over a month ago and is receiving hospice care. more news later. now back to "lockup." due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. the maricopa county jail's

tent city is not limited only to men. there's a separate area for women known as pup tents. >> work it, ladies. >> while the inmates here are usually more concerned with blazing phoenix heat, today, some of them are busy shoring up their tent for a rare thunderstorm. >> it's got to go this way, so you tie it to that. >> you're going to get in trouble. >> you're going to die. >> there you go. yea. now tie it. >> tie it to what? >> tie the string to the rope so we can tie it right there. >> tie it to this. there. >> 18-year-old shalindria black is serving time for a robbery charge that she says was motivated by her addiction to meth. >> i was into meth since i was 12. >> they're in trouble.

>> what were you thinking? >> tieing that so the rain doesn't get in. >> you could have gotten hurt. you could have gotten hurt really bad. if there's a problem with the tent, you let us know and we'll fix it. >> okay. >> okay? these are tents. it's raining outside. they sometimes leak. >> okay. >> okay? what's your name? >> black. >> okay. >> i know who she is. >> okay. okay. that's it. >> they told me if i don't get rolled up, i'm lucky, for getting on top of the tent. i don't care. because it leaks. but we're in tents. they leak. >> at the end of the day, we are responsible for the, you know, care of the inmates. make sure they're not having er runs or going to the hospital. being how that is, we want to make sure that anybody that does something foolish, we address it immediately. if we had to talk to this person again about this kind of same thing, we might, for her own safety, get her in a more safe environment than being out here in tents. >> you're my helper for the rest of the night. you're going to help us with chow and then whatever else the

trustees are going to do, you're going to be their right haf hand person. there's shchow, so you're mine. >> i can't stand it inside. >> while black will have a night of extra tasks ahead of her. she needs to be back at her inmate job the next morning. she works in what is known at maricopa as the m.a.s.h. unit. >> m.a.s.h. stands for the maricopa county sheriff's office animal safe haven. we regularly get animals in that are at death's door. >> m.a.s.h. is a housing unit for abused animals whose owners are incarcerated at maricopa. its located in one of the original jail facilities, which was shut down for human occupants in 1999. >> we get animals in that are literally skin and bones. we nurse them back to health.

we resocialize them. we get them used to being around people. and once their court case is cleared, we take actual ownership of the animal, we adopt them out to a good home. >> good boy. >> the animals are cared for by inmate workers who have no history of animal abuse. male inmates take care of the horses and other farm animals. >> we get accused of standing around scratching our ass all day here at m.a.s.h. unit. best job on the yard. >> female inmates handle the dogs and cats. >> i bond more with the dogs here than any of the girls on the yard. what i like best about the dogs is they don't argue with everything that you say like the inmates do. >> abigail, calm down. >> you know, i'm very strong on animal cruelty. anybody that violates or abuses animals goes directly to jail. i don't give them a ticket. i don't care who they are. i don't care their occupation. you know the sad part of it? the animals are doing more time

behind bars than the people that abuse the animals. i will never euthanize any animal in this jail. so, therefore, i have one dog that's been behind bars for seven years. that's queenie. here we have a dog that's a victim, can't find anyone to adopt that dog. but i'm not going to euthanize her. she may do 20 years behind bars. she will not be euthanized. come on. i can grab this -- without getting my hand bit off? is this going to bite my hand? sit. how come the dog doesn't --? >> queenie! >> after seven years in jail, you can't train the dog? she's got to learn some lessons. stop talking back at the sheriff. you know, even the inmates don't talk back to me. now i've got the dog talking back, right? right, queenie?

coming up, the judge hands down a sentence in michelle lacy's case. >> my baby cried and said it wasn't fair. >> and maricopa's most controversial yard. >> a lot of the public calls this the immigration yard because many of them will be deported back to mexico. [ male announcer ] in blind taste tests, even ragu users chose prego. prego?! but i've been buying ragu for years. [ thinking ] i wonder what other questionable choices i've made? [ '80s dance music plays ] [ sighs ] [ male announcer ] choose taste. choose prego.

several weeks after visiting her three children, michelle lacy, facing drug dealing and weapons charges, has just learned her fate. >> i went to sentencing yesterday, and i got sentenced to 6 1/2 years in prison. no probation. >> lacy was convicted on a narcotic drug violation. as a repeat offender, she was denied probation, but has been credited with the nine months

she spent at maricopa. combined with good behavior in prison, she could be out in 4 1/2 years. >> my mom told my kids the other day that i would be home when they'd be 14, 11 and 10. my oldest was mad and he told my mom that he was almost going to be a man when i got out. he said, she didn't even do anything bad this time. i was like, oh. my daughter is a trouper. she said i'll be there every weekend, and my baby cried and said it wasn't fair, that he wanted me home by the time he was 9 1/2. i don't know where he got that number. >> though she saved one year in prison, she admits the experience did not motivate her to give up her drug of choice, heroin. but she says her time at maricopa has. >> if i did this much time here the first time, i would have never done drugs again. i haven't been outside for 135 days. this is hard time. it goes by slow. we sit in here all day long.

food is horrible. this is going to be the last time i'm ever in a maricopa county jail. >> but john harrington seems to be feeling better about life in maricopa. or maybe not. >> sheriff joe, i want to say thank you personally, for this kind of opportunity because my former job of counseling federal felons, anger management and their basic skills must not have been up to par. but this kind of thing right here really helps me. i'm building a lot of character in this situation. >> harrington, who once worked as a conflict resolution counselor before his aggravated assault conviction, has gotten a new job. >> this is my first day. i'm two hours in right now, just cleaning up. we keep cleaning, we keep cleaning, we mop, we do a couple of toilets. this is a women's holding cell.

>> the chief benefit of the new job is that it earns him two for one time. meaning he gets an extra day off his sentence for each day he works. >> two for one so you'll be out in half the time. >> absolutely. >> how much longer? >> i don't even count the days, technically, because it's a really bad thing. it's like a bad omen, but i'm march 12th. i don't want to know how many days that is whatsoever. >> harrington will serve the rest of his sentence with other short-timers in maricopa's tent city. but there's a cordoned off area of tent city called o-yard a place where the future is not so clear. >> this is o-yard. a lot of the public calls this the immigration yard because 80% of our inmates are here undocumented. they don't have papers. they're here illegally. when an illegal immigrant commits a crime, they're put under arrest. they're brought to o-yard. once they serve their time for that crime, we release them to i.c.e. i.c.e. conducts interviews with

each one of them to further investigate their citizenship here, and many of them will be deported back to mexico. >> if i go back to mexico, it's like starting over from somewhere i've never been. it's like if they dropped me off in china or russia. i don't know what i'm going to do. >> ivan diaz has been in o-yard for the last two weeks since his arrest for giving wrongful information to a police officer who he says approached him and asked for identification. >> and i just -- i didn't have any. so i just told him the truth. i don't have any. and i was nervous at the time so i gave him a wrong name because i didn't want to -- i was just nervous. but then i ended up telling the officer my real name and everything, and i got arrested for that. giving the officer wrongful information. i was going to get arrested anyway, you know what, officer? i screwed up. i'm from mexico, this is me, and i've been -- he was a really nice guy, he just read me my

rights and took me to jail. >> diaz has been in the system since he was age 3 and now has two children who are american citizen. >> my aunt says my youngest, the 6-year-old, was saying where was i at. she was going to hang pictures all over the block to make people find me or something. my wife, i don't think she told her where i was at exactly. she didn't want to tell her i was in jail. so we teach her what's right and what's wrong. i've never had a ticket in my life or even had problems with the police. that's why it's weird to them, knowing i'm locked up. i just want to see them again, man. really bad. >> maricopa has always been a controversial jail. but inmates like diaz, who will most likely be deported, have thrust it into its most heated conflict yet. [speaking in a foreign language] >> and while we were there, 5,000 protesters organized a march on the jail to express

their anger. arpaio's critics accuse him of directing his deputies to sweep neighborhoods for illegal immigrants who might not otherwise be breaking any laws. >> because of immigration policies, arizona is the corridor for most folks that are crossing the border. two years ago when sheriff arpaio started doing community raids, business raids and started doing racial profiling. >> but arpaio denies he racially profiles or his deputies arrest people without cause. >> they call it the sweeps. i sweep into phoenix and crime suppression. i don't know what the difference is. we have dui task force, we stop everybody. we have a drug task force, so what's the difference whether i have a crime suppression operation, and average 80, 90 arrests. about 5 0% are illegal. they're all criminal violations. so i don't know. this is all hype because they

just don't want the sheriff to enforce the law. >> i'm here from washington, d.c. i've come all the way over here because we're standing in solidarity with the people of arizona and to really denounce the human rights abuses that are going on in maricopa. people are afraid and it's created a sense of terror in this state. >> everybody in that jail has violated a state crime. then they happen to be illegal, too. now, there is some fear out there when the fear could be, if you're here illegally, you're working and you're driving a car and we catch you speeding, and you're illegal, you're going -- you're going to jail. >> with the protesters making their way from a nearby park toward o-yard, sheriff arpaio has secured the perimeter. >> let's go. >> and dispatched one of his special response teams to o-yard

in case things get out of hand. while many of the protesters accuse the sheriff and his deputies of being racist, arpaio says it's not true and that his unconventional practices have always made him a target. >> i'm not going to get into my personal grandkids, but i will tell you this. they are from all ethnic background. so i'm the racist? you can have all these critics call me in my office every name in the book, we kill people, on and on and on. they don't like the way i operate. i say "they," a small percentage, because when you look at the polls, i think most people like what i'm doing. they would not be re-electing me five times. but they demonstrate. they call me hitler and, assassinate me and -- what is this? just trying to do my job. coming up, a crowd of 5,000 vents its anger at the maricopa

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with controversy over the nation's immigration policies at a fevered pitch, the maricopa county jail has become a flashpoint in the debate over when and why undocumented immigrants should be arrested. though sheriff joe arpaio claims his deputies do not arrest anyone without cause, some 5,000 people who claim otherwise have assembled outside the jail to protest what they perceive as unfair and illegal practices. [speaking in a foreign language] >> something's wrong with that

man. the same thing that happened with hitler and the jewish people, we don't want to see happening with our people, or mexicans, you know? it's the same thing, hitler and the jewish people. arpaio and the illegal immigrants, as he calls them. it's not fair. >> inside, sheriff arpaio has put the entire jail on lockdown and is preparing to visit the perimeter and eventually address the media. >> are you lining up a podium or something out there? >> last report i heard, there's approximately 5,000 protesters, because of sheriff arpaio's stance on illegal immigration, he's a nationwide figure and they're bussing in protesters from the los angeles area as well as texas. >> we came from los angeles and we're here to protest sheriff arpaio's policies toward immigrants, undocumented people and just in general. i feel he's doing a lot of, like, inhumane type of, you

know, activities in arizona. >> so we've got a little situation. >> si, se puede. si, se puede. >> deputies in riot gear secure the facilities closest and special response teams have been deployed to o-yard. >> we have heightened security on the yard now in case something does happen. my squad, c-squad is on the compound. the inmates can sense a change in routine. they sense something's out of the norm. they see srtc-squad here. it's not a big deal. we spend 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour here, hey, they're just doing their normal searches. but now all of a sudden we're here four and five hours, they're scratching their heads, saying why are we here, what's up?

>> we don't know what's going to happen. there's been rocks thrown. we want to make sure no one penetrates this area. the tent city there. we have about 200 illegal aliens incarcerated there, which they don't like. so we have a security issue, and we're going to make sure nothing happens in our jails. >> they don't want us to know anything, so that's why it's on lockdown. there could be a riot get set up. >> no more joe. no more joe. >> i used to go right in the midst of that. but i don't do it anymore because they scream. i can't talk. they scream and you can't get a word in. so why waste my time? >> the protesters have a stage,

they have personalties, i believe linda ronstadt is one of them, sheriff arpaio currently has one of her cds being played on the speaker system at the tent compound. >> while licensing fees keep us from playing the music on television, arpaio had it blasting throughout tent city. so much so our audio technician couldn't properly adjust for it on his mixer. >> i actually can't turn my system down far enough to get it to not distort. i had to turn it completely off. it's ridiculous. that's flat out painful. >> i don't know what's going on. i would just like some, you know, i'm a smooth jazz guy, myself. a little kenny g. >> oh, that's linda. remember her? she used to be a singer, you know she's here leading this demonstration against me. so the least i can do is play

some nice songs for all our inmates that are on lockdown. locked everybody down. no visitors, because of this demonstration. >> he probably doesn't want us to hear what's going on out there. the lady's cool, i respect old ladies, don't get me wrong. but when you're trying to sleep because you've got to go to work, and it's loud as hell, you're trying to sleep, it's kind of wrong. >> well, i don't know if they like it. i'd rather have frank sinatra, but, you know, frank isn't here. i hope i don't have a riot after they listen to it. >> this place sucks, man. it really does. >> don't like me enforcing the illegal immigration laws. think they've got me, they're going to make me go in a hole or make me resign. never going to happen. if they want to change the laws, don't make me the poster boy. go to washington and get the laws changed.

i'm just doing my job enforcing the state and the federal laws. and that's my job. i hope they spent a lot of money here, especially those that came from another state. cut loose with the change and go to the restaurants and build up the economy. >> the rally lasted approximately four hours. it was peaceful, except for a group of three men and two women who were arrested for assaulting law enforcement officers. and as far as the sheriff is concerned, he says none of it has made him want to quit. >> i'm not ready to retire. when i do leave, i'm from massachusetts, i won't -- i don't ride a horse, so i'll just drive off into the sunset with a convertible and then you won't care about me, i know the media will forget me in 24 hours. but they're never going to make me stop enforcing the law.