we thought was going to happen in the world and on the internet. we thought there would be something like this. but the big surprise of this thing is we played a big role in making that happen. when college we just figured, who are we to do this? >> mark zuckerberg talking to charlie rose last night about the jump over seven years from a college dorm room to facebook. we asked you at the top of the show what you're doing up at this hour. john, what are they saying? >> natasha in harrisburg writes my 2-year-old's internal clock thought 5:00 a.m. was a perfect time for waffles. >> i have a 2-year-old as well with an internal clock and how bad is the daylight savings time thing killing you? they don't know what's going on. they're up at 4:00 in the morning running around. terrible. i have a tweet for you. still up on the west coast. we have a lot of viewers who do this. i watch your show every night while, quote, medicating before bed. and that's our core audience. "morning joe" starts right now.

>> how was your day? >> well, all things considered, i'm still alive. it was a -- it got off to somewhat of a rough start. we had a little surprise to show up on tv. >> yeah. did you watch that? >> we watched it, because we didn't even know that this whole thing about woman number four was even going to come out, so that was a surprise. >> yes. good morning. >> and at least it wasn't one of the many that have the first name anonymous. so now this one actually had a name and a face so we watched to see what it was and who it was and we are dealing with it. >> have you considered hiring gloria allred as your attorney? >> ah, you almost made me say something that my analysts say you should not say. let me put it to you this way. i can't think of anything that i would hire her to do.

okay? i can't think of a thing. >> oh, my. >> good morning. it's tuesday. >> he can't think of a thing that he would pay gloria allred for. >> with us onset -- >> it is better than better. >> the cain train, pulls through your town. >> the most -- >> how is everybody doing? >> good. >> good. >> a little cranky. >> why are you cranky? >> coffee. >> you don't have coffee? >> where's the coffee? >> it's tough. holy cow. >> just imagine you have coffee. >> visualize coffee. >> welcome to "morning joe" everybody. with us the national affairs editor for new york magazine, the cranky john halland. >> what the hell? >> excuse me? >> what's next? >> standards and practices. >> seriously. peewee herman? the guy that sells waffles across the street? >> it's good though.

>> we also have the managing editor of "fortune" magazine with us. >> good morning. >> not a political analyst. we're not giving him a dime. >> need somebody to cover my bail money. >> yeah. here we have in the "new york times" a tale of two leads. >> hum. >> one, "syria unleashes assault to take an unbound city." this is historic. this is epic. we're talking about -- it's amazing. the balance of power in the middle east and then in the middle, turmoil in greece and italy deepen euro crisis. i just don't have to tell you how that ripple in greece could turn into a tidal wave in the united states. >> really. >> then over here, the "new york times", i'm kind of surprised that they gave this such high play. woman accuses cain of groping. he denies the charge. are you surprised that gloria

allred led press conference with an accuser would make it that high? >> no. >> really. >> no. >> why not? >> well, because i think there's a -- somebody accusing the republican front runner of effectively sexual assault. >> is that what she's doing? >> well, by many definitions under the law that's pretty much what she's saying he did so i think, you know, it's no not surprising given -- he is the republican front runner and has been publicly accused not by -- in a newspaper story or a web story, not by a lawyer, but by a person who is willing to go and put her name and face to the charge. pretty serious thing. >> if you watched him last night on jimmy kimmel, i know it is a comedy show, but is reflective of the way he's been over the last week. he is completely unfazed by this. shoot it all down, none of this is true. people are saying he has to address this. he is saying i am addressing it. none of it is true and he is

smiling his way through it. >> do you think it was ironic that gloria allred had this press conference at the friar's club, which is the home of sexist jokes to women. sorry but true. >> one other thing. then we'll move on to news making polls but i have to talk about this. i love penn state, willie. i've always loved them. >> this is just -- >> they are a class program. but the stories have come out about the -- keep coming out about penn state and are disgusting and sickening. for so many good penn state fans out there, they've been betrayed by everybody. this guy was caught by janitors molesting little boys that he entrapped in his organization that was supposed to help little boys. in 1998 by a janitor. the guy still allowed on campus. in 2002 a grad assistant sees

him groping, molesting another little boy in the shower. stories of him taking these disadvantaged boys to bowl games across the country and trying to molest them then saying if they complained he is going to send them back. >> a really sick story. >> it is a sick story. i'm just going to say what the reality of this case is, and it's sad. it really is sad because i love joe paterno, but the fact is you read all around it and they're just afraid to go after the old man. the old man knew in 2002. he knew in 2002. the guy was still given access in 2009. i understand the politics of it in pennsylvania, but joe paterno is at the top of that food chain. it was his assistant coach. he knew about it in 2002. everybody needs to be cleared out and they need to be cleared out now. this is disgusting. >> beloved as joe paterno is, as classy as he's been for the last 60 years at penn state -- >> great man. >> a graduate assistant came to him in 2002 and said, i saw this

with my own two eyes. told joe paterno. and joe paterno didn't take immediate action, so he is going to have to answer for that. >> he reported it supposedly to the athletic director. >> but that's not enough. you're joe paterno. >> who has the real power there? the a.d. or joe paterno? >> i was going to say the fact that they're suggesting he told his superior, i'm sorry. >> that was specious. i heard that, too. >> that's like saying bear bryant's athletic director was his boss. no. >> no. >> and organizations like this, the joe paternos of the world, bear bryants, they are the bosses. so much so that if they look at a university president the wrong way, this is how it used to be in the old days, the university president would shake. >> yeah. >> he knew where the real power was. so, you know, i understand the politics of this, but the pennsylvania state attorney's office, the u.s. attorney's office -- state attorney's office is going to have to broaden this and joe paterno and everybody involved is going to

have to step down. >> they have to go. >> this is disgusting. >> you hear something like that and why wouldn't you just say, this guy has got to go right away? you have to do an investigation and/or he has to go right away. >> again, the janitor saw it in 1998, 11 years later. they were still giving this pervert access to penn state facilities and his organization. >> and -- >> it's sickening. >> someone is acting in that way. >> it's on the front page of "usa today" by the way. >> and you let it go you can assume it is happening to many more young people. >> oh, absolutely. exactly. >> whether it is a -- >> wow. one final thing from happy valley. not so happy valley to greece. the battle continues, andy. first greece, now italy. >> berlusconi hanging on. >> is berlusconi going to go down? >> boy, he is -- talk about a teflon politician, though. this guy has survived political scandals, sex scandals,

financial scandals. right now, though, you know, europe just continues to be in turmoil and the germans hold, you know, the power. they're trying to dictate what's going to happen, but it's just a slow burn and until there is some sort of resolution particularly with greece and it's sort of a reverse domino thing that greece needs to be resolved and then we can turn our attention to italy and so forth, but until these things are resolved, we're not going to be in good stead over here in the united states. >> right. no doubt about it. you know maybe herman cain can run for berlusconi's job after this. wouldn't that be great? >> we've heard it all. >> he would love the bunga-bunga parties over there. and you don't get punished for that in italy. >> woman number dot, dot, dot. >> seriously, for berlusconi? >> right. >> we're in double digits, quadruple digits. i don't know. >> mika doesn't like the bunga-bunga thing. she just gave me the look of death. >> mika, just quoting. >> he's quoting. >> i know what she's thinking. >> what is she thinking?

>> she has something on herman cain. >> what do you think? >> wow. >> let's ask the question together. >> i know mika brzenzski. i think you have some questions about the accusers perhaps. >> thank you. >> perhaps their motives in coming forward. >> what an opportunity to actually look at some other -- >> what do you think, mika? >> i just think it's interesting. look, i think herman cain's -- i still don't get why he is even at the top of the list. i don't understand your party. we can go on for the politics of that, but you're the expert. you can explain it. i don't get it. i don't even think he should be there. but as far as this is concerned he was head of the national restaurant association. he was powerful before he was running for president. and nobody spoke out then. so what does that say about them? because if someone is a predator, a sexual predator, and they do something to you and you don't speak out, you're letting it go. you're letting it go. and, clearly, this woman and gloria allred are very interested in the lime light right now. and taking this on. and i wonder what their reasons are. there. now i'm sure i'll get killed

online for that. >> so you're asking why didn't they bring this out years ago. >> i think that's what they're interested in. >> money. >> yeah. >> it's interesting. he was powerful before but where was she? where was she? >> at the friar's club. >> she is accepting no money for interviews or anything else but gloria allred is involved so we'll leave that. >> she'll get paid. right? >> the whole thing is a pathetic side show. >> all right. so now that we've cleared that up, let's go to the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll. >> it's interesting. >> it finds that herman cain is still within the margin of error of front runner mitt romney. the poll was conducted after politico's initial report of sexual harassment allegations against cain but before yesterday's public accusations made by a fourth woman. >> see, republicans agree with you. >> the poll shows cain unchanged from a month ago with 27% trailing the former governor of massachusetts by just one point.

romney has gained five points since october. in third is newt gingrich with 13% followed by ron paul and texas governor rick perry both with 10%. >> all right. >> let's look at a general election matchup with president obama. cain does not fare so well. >> oh, well. >> trailing the president by 15 points. mitt romney does a little better than cain trailing president obama by 6 points. obama's approval ratings remain unchanged dating back to august with 51% of americans disapproving of the way he is conducting his job as president while 57% of americans say they disapprove of the way president obama is handling the economy. the poll also shows 73% of americans still think we're on the wrong track as a country. >> john, a lot of things to look at first here but let's begin with rick perry, nbc news, their analysts and their analysis of it. talked about his collapse being just mind boggling. >> it was mind boggling

certainly in its size. i think interesting, also, the striking thing about rick perry's collapse has been that although we in the elite media, you know, have attributed largely to his debate performances, if you look at the cross tabs in all these polls it's really been about his immigration answers and the fact that he has lost almost all the altitude that rick perry lost was with tea party voters who were very upset with him about his soft position on immigration and, you know, the romney campaign has hammered him over and over again on that for being too liberal in immigration. and that seems to be where he actually lost most of the -- he lost about 20 points with the tea party and the immigrant voters. >> he was in the 30s when he launched. >> he was. >> in the 20s last month. 16. now he's at 10. he keeps going down. >> yes. >> i think the second big story though is that mitt romney is finally getting a little lift. he has gone above the ceiling of 23 or 24. >> yes. and, look. the romney campaign, they would have always said that the notion that there was a hard ceiling

was a false notion and that as we got closer and closer to voting and a lot of these voters who were uncertain about romney were parking their enthusiasms with other candidates. as we got closer and closer to when the votes started that we would start to see that that ceiling is actually higher for him than people have thought and maybe this is the first -- the first actual tangible evidence, the fact that mitt romney is -- actually his ceiling is not 24% but is maybe in the low 30s and that will be plenty enough for him to win the republican nomination if that's true. >> so, andy, is this serious voters coming home? linking up with a guy that they don't really like? >> and a lot of conservatives just don't like mitt romney but are they thinking, geez, i might as well get behind this guy because there's no -- nobody else out there? >> you know this, joe, better than anyone, which is often it's the choice between lesser of two evils for people when they go to the polls be it a nomination or

an actual election. and you have to look, for instance, say those newt numbers. where are they going to go? they're either going to go to mitt or go home. they're not going to go across the aisle. i think as you suggested now for months, really, it's romney's to lose and it looks like he's in the driver's seat at this point. >> and the question has just been, would the conservative vote consolidate and there's been no sign of that happening. as long as that remains the case, as long as no one is able to gather all of those anti-romney votes together mitt romney is in good shape. better shape every day. >> ron paul is not going to get more than he's got. he's steady right there and is not going to get anymore so i think there you have it. >> interesting too. i know these head-to-head matchups change week to week but in a poll that shows three-quarters of the country shows we're on the wrong track, still has president obama beating mitt romney, beating herman cain badly and still at 44%.

>> he is at 44%, which most incumbent presidents this far along would be very nervous about and yet he is pounding every republican candidate, which, again, just confirms how weak this field is. >> exactly. he's beating them badly. given our economic climate it's remarkable, a poll that shows 75% of us think the country is going the wrong way, still believes that he should be president next time around. >> the question is, the conservative republicans, do they stay home assuming romney is the nominee or do they vote for -- >> a lot of them stay home. >> you think they stay home, john? >> yeah. >> my view is just that i think conservative republicans hate barack obama so much they will vote for pretty much anyone. that may prove not to be true but i just think that the animus they feel for the president is so great they'll hold their nose for romney. >> isn't that the $64,000 question? will the conservative republicans come out and vote or not assuming romney is the candidate. maybe it depends on the local candidates and all that.

>> if it's a close election, it's going to hurt. the republicans, mitt romney, is just not beloved let alone liked by his own party base. they just don't believe in him. >> i think you have to go state by state because there are only five that matter. look at florida and pennsylvania and do the numbers. >> fascinating. mika, let me ask you this. >> yeah. >> i don't want to do this press conference story with, now, i just -- you think we need to do it to get the facts out there? or not? >> i don't know. do you think we need to spend our time with this? >> with herman cain? >> yeah, the herman cain -- >> gloria allred? just show us -- >> we're not getting any facts from either side. >> no. >> we're getting allegations. there are no formal reports filed. >> i missed the press conference. i was at the port of rabbis last night. >> the rabbis love you. >> they do. it was so nice in new york city. they told me about it.

>> are you saying you'd like to see this? >> no, i just want to see what it looked like. i don't really need to hear it. do you? >> no. i don't need to hear any of it. go ahead and just roll the video. you've got three seconds to watch this. here we go. look, look. >> okay. yep. >> that's all you need to know. okay. so in his first fundraiser in two weeks president obama attended a private reception in washington last night. dnc officials estimated that the night would bring in $800,000. that event followed an afternoon announcement where the president unveiled executive actions targeted at the nation's serviceman and women. the programs, which include customized job search assistance and online job banking are reportedly aimed at pressuring republicans to pass the next part of the american jobs act which would provide tax credits to businesses that hire veterans. >> that's nice. >> returning to his theme of we can't wait, the president once again urged congress to move forward on his proposals.

>> we ask our men and women in uniform to leave their families and their jobs and risk their lives to fight for our country. the last thing they should have to do is fight for a job when they come home. there is no good reason to oppose this bill, not one. our veterans did their jobs. it's time for congress to do theirs. >> all right. do you have any problems with those things he is proposing? >> no. >> okay. >> i like veterans. >> yeah. all right. coming up -- i don't understand why -- we'll continue after the break. bill clinton will be here. maybe he can give us some insight as to why there is such gridlock in washington. also david remnick, tina brown, and eugene robinson. the east coast still looks fantastic. check out the pictures yesterday from oklahoma. we had tornadoes reported yesterday. it's not all that rare. usually we get one or two of these in november but look at this one. these people were up close and personal.

one of the storm chasers' cars got flipped they got so close. thankfully we didn't have any injuries or fatalities. now, today we're waking up this morning, more severe weather in texas in the dallas/ft. worth area. these storms are going to sweep through your area and eventually little rock to louisiana, anywhere in yellow you have a chance of severe storms today. pretty much from st. louis south wards down through the deep south. in the east as i mentioned just bottle this up and enjoy it. 67 degrees today from philly to new york. hartford near 70. you just had a foot of snow a little over a week ago so this is finally a nice stretch of weather. it's going to last today and tomorrow. then it all changes for the east as the cold air and stormy weather from the middle of the country shifts to the east coast. but by far the worst travel weather if you're flying today, chicago all the way down to dallas. that's the travel trouble spots. beautiful day in d.c., though. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] at e-trade, investing means taking action with professional-grade research. and some of the most powerful,

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... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations. because when you add verizon to your company, you don't just add, you multiply. ♪ discover something new... verizon. herman cain's fourth female accuser held a news conference today where she claimed herman cain offered her a job in exchange for sexual favors. now, say what you want about the guy, at least he's got a plan to put people back to work. putting people back to work. >> that is so wrong.

24 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. the "new york times" says wall street bonuses are set to fall by an average of 20% to 30% this year compared to a year ago. that according to a closely watched compensation survey. the article says the cuts should come as little surprise as trading profits have slumped and the new dodd/frank regulations have raised the cost of doing business. >> "the boston globe" says facebook cofounder mark zuckerberg met yesterday with hundreds of students at m.i.t. and harvard university looking to recruit employees and interns for facebook. he also said he's interested in building a major presence in the boston area down the line. we're going to be talking about facebook's intense rivalry with google, coming up with andy. here is one, the photo in the new orleans times picayune shows senators richard shelby and jeff sessions of alabama wearing purple and gold. >> ooh. >> ties yesterday. the result of a lost bet on

saturday's football game. as you can see, senators david vitter and mary landrieu were thrilled. >> hum. >> go to politico. >> we'll go to the politico playbook, the executive editor -- jim, good morning. >> good morning. how are you? >> doing all right. reading through this bill daley story you guys pointing out he is officially handing off some of his day-to-day responsibilities to pete rouse. what's going on behind the scenes? >> there's been a lot of frustration with daley internally at the white house and actually externally on capitol hill where a lot of members of congress, democratic leaders have been frustrated with the white house, frustrated with their dealings together on a lot of these big debates. what you have here is the white house responding to this and saying that peter rouse, who's been around for a long time with obama that he is going to do of the day-to-day activity particularly dealing with capitol hill and that daley is going to stick around but is going to be more of an ambassador both dealing with folks around d.c. but also in

the business community. and i think that that role probably better fits daley's core strengths as a leader but it does speak to this frustration internally with how the white house has been managed in this sort of post rahm emanuel era. >> has daley been frustrated with the white house himself? >> he has. we understand from folks on capitol hill that he's been griping a bit about feeling like his advice is not being listened to internally and there is a common complaint that you hear from democrats that if you're not part of the original obama team, so if you're not david plouffe, not david axelrod, it's hard to fit in with this group that's been together for a long, long time. i think what you hear from daley is what we've heard from a lot of other aides that have left the white house that were part of the inner sanctum. >> i think that's basically right. i'm curious, jim, whether you think there is any way to read this as other than as a demotion for bill daley. >> i mean, look.

demotion is the right word, he's still going to be chief of staff and is going to stick around but daley himself has said he has gone after the 2012 election, it had always been his plan. the trouuth is david plouffe ha always been the power inside this white house so i think it's more a reflection of the frustration people have felt internally and externally and it's the white house reacting to that and trying to figure out the right formula, particularly in dealing with capitol hill. when you have harry reid and nancy pelosi and their staffs routinely voicing frustration with their dealings with the white house, you have to make changes because that's the only avenue, the only lever of power that this white house has in effecting change and policy in what's happening on the legislative side of things. >> speaking of capitol hill the super committee's november 23rd deadline is creeping up now and we're hearing republicans looking for some ways to raise revenue while not increasing taxes. what are they talking about?

>> right. this is a tough one. you're hearing a lot of talk about this. you've heard it from speaker boehner, from other republicans in recent days, this idea of increasing revenues without increasing taxes. the way they'd like to do that would be through tax reform. john boehner, the speaker, has talked about trying to lower the corporate and individual tax rate to 25% and get rid of a lot of deductions which would expand the number of people who are paying taxes. it could have the effect of increasing the amount of revenue that's coming in. the problem is it's really late in the game to be talking about corporate and individual tax reform. both are hugely complicated. when you throw them together it's almost impossible in the deadlines they're working with to do anything substantial in that area. >> that deadline is 15 days from today. so we have to move quickly on this. thanks so much for a look at the playbook. we'll see you. michael vick, the headliner in last night's monday night football game, but it was the kid from vanderbilt getting it done on the other side of the ball. highlights of a fourth quarter comeback for the bears, next in

sports. plus, the man who will forever be linked to muhammad ali for their three classic fights in the 1970s. a look back at the life of smoking joe frazier. we'll be right back. ♪ [ female announcer ] give a little cheer to a family of a soldier. just cut out the cheer from your specially marked box of cheerios, write your message, and we'll see that they get it. no, i wouldn't use that single miles credit card. hey, aren't you... shhh. i'm researching a role. today's special... the capital one venture card. you earn double miles on every purchase. impressive. chalk is a lost medium. if you're not earning double miles... you're settling for half. was that really necessary? [ male announcer ] get the venture card at capitalone.com and earn double miles

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welcome back to "morning joe." boxing legend smoking joe frazier died yesterday at the age of 67. the former heavyweight champ was best known as the rival of muhammad ali both in and out of the ring. as a young fighter frazier won a gold medal at the 1964 olympics and in 1971 became the first man to defeat muhammad ali, knocking him down in the historic fight of the century at madison square garden in 1971. that was the first of three matches between frazier and ali including their final 14-round fight known as the thriller in manila. the two men did have a rocky relationship outside the ring. for years frazier held a grudge for most of his life actually against ali for ali's brutal taunts. ali called him a guerrilla and referred to him as an uncle tom. in april of 2009 frazier joined us here on "morning joe" and spoke about his relationship with ali. >> our relationship should have been like two lovers.

because, number one, we fought together and let's say we touched each other and maybe he hugged me all night in one fight back in the '70s, you know what i mean? >> joe, you were a fight fan there in the '70s. >> my gosh. >> those three fights? >> best fight ever in 1971 at the garden, a 15-round desanction of course the thriller in manila in '75 where frazier never forgave his corner man, his trainer for not allowing him to go out for the 15th round. remember the trainer threw in the towel, wouldn't let him finish the fight. it was epic. >> there were a lot of people who live in new york city that are fight fans and will remember from 1971 to 1975 it was the golden age of boxing. nothing compares. it started with the fight of the century. it was the fight of the century. >> yes. >> it was ali, frazier, '71. and america was split dead straight down the middle. progressives were cheering on ali and a lot of conservatives certainly in my household were cheering for joe frazier. and it was a remarkable fight. 15 rounds.

but actually the better fight was four years later. the thriller in manila, yeah. if frazier did not answer the bell in the 15th, and yet ali said it was the closest i ever came to dying. >> to death. >> listen to this. dave anderson today, who knows a thing or two about boxing in new york city said this. some people mean more together than they do apart. whatever the stage. churchill and hitler. bogart and bacall. ali and frazier. for all the deserved accolades for muhammad ali i've always believed that at his best joe frazier who died monday at the age of 67 was the better fighter and the better man. >> wow. >> if you've ever seen that documentary, and of course nobody went around praising joe frazier after his career was over. just went to the sidelines. but those documentaries are so sad when joe frazier would try to hand ali money when he couldn't get a fight and help him out.

ali would take the money and then the doors would open up and ali would start screaming and yelling at him, calling him uncle tom there. >> yes. >> frazier was just a good, decent man from south carolina. he didn't understand it. >> and gave up his body in every fight and it showed later in life. he struggled with his health, died quickly actually of liver cancer. we only heard about it a month or so ago and he died yesterday. so a great fighter and an icon. >> i sound like i'm from the 1930s, but i remember sitting upstairs with my dad and brother and sister around the radio because, you know, they didn't have pay-per-view then. >> right. >> you were either in the boxing match or you were listening on the radio and we just sat there and it was the most exciting sporting event that i can remember. >> you think about, you know, naming who the heavyweight champion is today. i don't know who it is. >> in that area you also had ali fighting foreman so you had those three. >> incredible.

>> ali, foreman, and then kenny norton who broke ali's jaw. >> if you pulled i think even sports fans, if you polled them today who the heavyweight champion of the world is i don't think you'd get more than 5% of american male sports fans who know who the heavyweight champion is. it's amazing. >> the last memory most americans have of heavyweight fighting was june of 1997 when mike tyson bit off evander holyfield's ear. >> right. >> that's the last one. >> that kind of did it. >> that was the end. >> then there was the hangover. >> yes. >> right. >> so let's do a little monday night football shall we? the bears and the eagles in philadelphia. the eagles trying to win their third straight game after starting the season 1-4. looked like they might have bounced back. they needed this win. second quarter cutler drops back, hits matt forte. he runs it in 202 yards for an ease -- 22 yards for an easy touchdown. game tied at 17.

lesean mccoy, great eagles running back dances outside and then bursts into the end zone. 33 yards there. eagles go up 24-17. took a lead into the fourth quarter. but in the fourth how often do you hear this, joe? vanderbilt to vanderbilt. jay cutler to earl bennett. the college connection. music city, usa, doing it again. gets both feet down. nice catch. the bears come from behind to beat the eagles, 30-24. the fourth time this season phillies have blown a lead in the fourth quarter. >> music row represents -- >> you show him that little thing a couple times, willie. >> you can see that touchdown. like 19 times in a row. >> two guys for vanderbilt on monday night football winning a game. you'll see that a lot. bears improving, 5-3. remaining in third in the nfc north because the packers and lions are there. the eagles meanwhile are in trouble now. they're tied down with the redskinss at 3-5. and three games behind the giants on top of that division. doesn't look good for philly. >> wow. up next, inside the war between google and facebook.

their high stakes fight to control the web. it's the cover story in the new issue of "fortune" magazine and andy will take us through it when we come back. financial advice is everywhere. real, objective investing help? that's a little harder to find. but here's what i know -- td ameritrade doesn't manage mutual funds... or underwrite stocks and bonds. or even publish their own research. so, guidance from td ameritrade isn't about their priorities.

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it's mind blowing from my perspective but more than half a billion people use facebook every day. and i just think that's crazy. >> 500 million plus people use facebook. >> it's growing every day. and i mean if you just look back seven years from when we were getting started, there would have been no way. >> the people in your dorm room. >> the funny thing is i used to talk to a lot of my friends when i was in college. we used to go out to get pizza every night and we used to talk about what we thought was going to happen in the world and on the internet and we thought that there would be something like this. but the big surprise in this thing is we've played a big role in making that happen. when we were in college we just figured, who are we to do this? >> all right. >> this is so fascinating. >> it's just fascinating. >> yes it is. >> a debate going on on your twitter feed. >> you want to go there? >> yeah i do. >> okay. then we're going to talk about andy's fortune magazine cover. well, it's 50/50.

there's tweets popping up right and left about my comments about the fourth accuser and some saying she couldn't have spoken out until now and that i'm blaming the victim and others saying that i'm absolutely right. and the only thing i'd like to add to it is i just think there are questions on both sides of the story. and we should be able to ask them. and i think gloria allred has a track record of cashing in for high profile people who have a bone to pick and they happen to be women and it has to do with sex. >> i guarantee you the people that are attacking you for not accepting everything that was said in the press conference would actually be supporting you if it were a democrat that were going through this. so much of this stuff is just pure garbage. >> it's an interesting conversation. especially about the complicated issue of sexual harassment. i always think it's worth it to take a look at -- i mean, i'm sorry. there is some sort of interesting questions on this side as well and we should be

not afraid to ask them. so facebook versus google. >> tell us about the battle. >> this is cool. >> well, right now google is winning. facebook is catching up. facebook may win. it's really the battle royale of business, the battle of our time. you know, this is for control of the internet. and, you know, it's pretty darned salient and just to take you back a little bit, of course, we first got on the internet we used protege, compuserve, aol, dialup, then moved to the portals and then the information web where google was the way most people got on to the internet, by search. now it's bei inin ining supplan facebook. >> but if i want to search something i go on google. if i want to talk to my 18 million followers i go to facebook. >> well it's not like facebook is going to completely replace

google. we're always going to be searching for things. >> where do they overlap? >> when they're trying to get revenue dollars from advertisers. right now google has about $38 billion of revenue and facebook's only got about $3 billion to $4 billion. google is much, much bigger. advertisers flock to google because people search a lot. but facebook, the number of people using facebook and the time that they spend on facebook is rapidly exceeding the time they spend on google. the other thing is search doesn't work in facebook. right? so facebook has created this huge world where google can't penetrate and advertisers have taken notice. mark zuckerberg last night on charlie rose said, and this is the first time i've heard this, 500 million people use facebook every day. i mean, that's more people than live in the united states. that's bigger than television in the united states. it's an amazing number. >> i'm fascinated by ad revenue and their approaches. you can micro target so much with both of these but it seems google especially, right? >> google is a more

sophisticated, more mature business model. if you're searching for a garden shop in your town, boom. all these ads come up right away. facebook, what they've concentrated on primarily was just building out the business. and now they're starting to monetize which is business speak for making money at it. they're starting to draw in companies like netflix, hulu, so you have to use these sites to optimize and use them best you need to do them through facebook. that means advertisers are going to start to go through these services and you'll start to see the commercialization of facebook. they don't want to use that word but believe me it is happening big time. >> they're both media companies. >> yeah. >> that's what they are. one is basically as joe pointed out focused on advertising in terms of the targeted side of it. >> right. >> the other is trying to focus on advertising in terms of getting people to stay for a long time and spend a lot of time in that world. my question for you is, relative to facebook, is there -- people started saying this a few weeks

ago. is there anything about facebook that makes you think of aol at the height of aol's power, walled garden, that was not what it was about. we're not about the web. we are self-contained. that's what you'll sell ads against. this is a much bigger scale but is it the same thing? >> wall garden versus open is one of the great debates of tech. apple versus microsoft, aol versus everyone else. apple has showed the wall garden approach can work. facebook is like the telephone, right? it's becoming this massive global utility. you know, can it stay cool? can a competitor be created that would compete with it? it's hard to imagine. remember, there was my space and they just utterly destroyed it. right now they seem impregnable but it's unclear whether that would last. you would think they have tremendous momentum for a very long time. and you're right. a media company taking ad dollars away from companies like time warner and comcast and nbc, right? >> yes. >> i mean, it's huge.

the other thing that's really interesting is the two guys -- larry page 38 years old, mark zuckerberg 27 years old. two young billionaires. what does the future hold for these guys? they're going to be around and be players for the rest of our lives and the power and influence those two people have is awesome. >> really big private planes. >> amazing the 38-year-old larry page is the cagey old veteran. >> he's the old guy. >> facebook founded in 2004. seven years old. >> wow. >> 800 million users. >> unbelievable. >> google founded in 1997. even that. you feel like google has been here forever. 14 years. it's like nothing. >> great story. new cover of "fortune" facebook vs. google. thank you. willie's news you can't use is next. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future.

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oh, yes. tell us it's time. >> it is time. we played at the top of the show a little bit of herman cain last night on jimmy kimmel looking very loose despite the fact that a woman had gone public in a press conference hours earlier, speaking of an aggressive, unwanted advance by mr. cain 14

years ago. here is more of cain on kimmel. >> because people keep asking you about this, there is no way to move forward from here. >> right. >> i mean like tiger woods tried to not talk about things. >> right. >> that didn't work out well for him. >> right. >> but see when i made the statement that i'm done talking about this i was talking about the firestorm last week. >> i see. >> i wasn't talking about this new firestorm that we discovered today. but, no. we are going to talk about this one and i am going to talk about it at a press conference. >> and if there are future firestorms will you talk about them? >> i will talk about any and all future firestorms because here's one thing people don't know about herman cain. i'm in it to win it and i'm not going to be discouraged. [ cheering ] >> you told a reporter, maybe some reporters, you said, when people get on the cain train, they don't get off. >> that's right. >> do you regret that choice of words, a, and -- >> no. >> and, b, what does that mean exactly? >> i don't regret that choice of

words because -- when people believe in herman cain and his message they know that it is sincere. >> have you ever smoked pot? >> no. >> you have never smoked pot. >> i have never smoked pot. >> even as the owner of a pizza chain you never thought, i've got to get to the bottom of what my customer base is really thinking? i'd march into the white house and i'd say get me the ufo files. i want to know what's going on with these ufos. because the president gets to look at that sort of thing. >> that's right. >> does that interest you at all? >> yes, but that's not the first thing that i want to look at. >> third? >> maybe fourth or fifth. the first thing that i want to know is, where is the money? [ cheering ] >> is it possible, maybe the ufos took the money? >> that's right. the ufos could have taken the

money. >> herman cain going to hold that press conference today. going heavy into the third person last night. more and more into it. >> always a bad sign. when you start talking about yourself like you're bob dole. >> we've got some fascinating things coming up. we have bill clinton coming up. >> yes. >> joe scarborough will be interviewing bill clinton. joe scarborough in the third person. we'll also have tina brown and eugene robinson. on the other side, john brought this up, a remarkable red state host this morning. eric erickson, the most influential conservative blogger out there. >> yeah. >> had just some blistering posts this morning with quite a conclusion. >> well, yeah. he said, mitt romney is going to be the nominee. mitt romney will lose to barack obama and destroy conservativism in the process and then concludes by saying it's so bad

i'm beginning to rethink my dismissal of jon huntsman. >> he's going to take a second look at jon huntsman who "the wall street journal" says has the best economic program. we'll talk about that a lot more right after the break. this new at&t 4g lte is fast. did you hear sam... ...got promoted to director? so 12 seconds ago. we should get him a present. thanks for the gift basket. you're welcome. you're welcome. did you see hr just sent out new... ...office rules? cause you're currently in violation of 6 of them. oh yeah, baby? ...and 7. did you guys hear that fred is leaving? so 30 seconds ago. [ noisemakers blow ] [ both ] we'll miss you! oh, facecake! there's some leftover cake. [ male announcer ] the new htc vivid. stay a step ahead with at&t 4g lte,

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my guess is 20, 25 years from now you young guys in the front row here, your kids are going to turn to you and say, how did you make it through the obama great recession? they're going to look back on these years as a very troubled time in america. and how you answer is going to depend in part on what happens about a year from now. so president obama is re-elected. you have a pretty good idea what the four years would look like. now the alternative of course is that you turn on your tv about a year from now and instead of seeing the obama camp celebrating you'll see something on the tv that says, mitt is it. >> welcome back to "morning joe." look at that beautiful shot of the white house. another beautiful day in washington. john is still with us and

joining the table the editor-in-chief of "newsweek" magazine and the daily beast tina brown. >> hello. >> and in washington pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. great group at the table this hour. good to have you all. should we launch right into the news? >> we've got so many fascinating things going on. i'm actually looking at some things coming in, red state, eric erickson. >> yes. >> fascinating critique of mitt romney. and i say it's fascinating because you'll remember a week or so ago when i said, more and more conservative leaders, and eric wasn't one of them. >> yeah. >> were telling me i would rather lose than have mitt romney be my nominee. >> right. >> it was shocking to me after four years of obama you would think these conservatives would -- but there is such an antipathy for mitt romney, always cutting the deals, always flip-flopping in conservatives'

minds, that john this morning brought this -- you said it was the most incredible post you've read from eric erickson. >> yes. i read eric erickson every morning. >> and eric does speak for true blue conservative -- >> he does and in a very articulate and passionate way. whenever you think about his views, he is a very good representative of a certain part of the republican party. this is a demolition job on mitt romney that basically says, he says he's been sitting, reading 200 pages of opo from the campaign on romney and you come to the conclusion that mitt romney is a man without any core convictions, will say anything to win, totally despicable. he trashes romney on every level and then says he will lose to barack obama. he will destroy conservativism in the process. >> wow. >> and then says it is so bad, and he is predicting romney will get the nomination and these things will happen. he says it is so bad i am now reconsidering my previous out of

hand dismissal of jon huntsman and he has been from the very outset a fierce critic of huntsman and now he is saying i think he may be more true to his conservative convictions than mitt romney. that's how bad i feel about romney. i'm willing to take a second look. >> just to let you know how -- this is a perfect example, gene, of how politics plays out and how perception as henry kissinger once said is reality. because if you look at jon huntsman's record as governor of utah, if you look at his economic policy that he has put out, an economic policy that "the wall street journal", which is the bible of economic conservativism, says that huntsman's economic policy, his plan, is the best of all the other republican candidates. this guy is a hundred percent pro life. you sit there and wonder how he has allowed his campaign to be managed the way it has. it's put him in this box which

is why somebody like eric erickson says, wait a second. let's look back at this record. it's a hell of a lot more conservative than mitt romney's. >> well, i can't imagine how huntsman has allowed himself to get into this situation. he is a pretty conservative guy. the problem is of course consorting with the enemy worked for the obama administration and that is difficult for i think some republicans to forgive. but i've been writing for months though that this antipathy toward romney among conservatives is real. it is real. it is enduring. and it's not just going to go away. they're not just going to say one day, oh, well. this guy we consider a fake conservative, it's okay. we can nominate him and we'll get behind him enthusiasticaent. he may get nominated but that enthusiasm, i don't see it and this eric erickson post is fascinating. i read him every morning, too. i hadn't gotten to this one yet but he's quite an articulate and

very bright spokesman for that philosophy. >> and the important thing, tina, about the eric erickson post this morning on red state is that he is now saying publicly what conservatives have been saying quietly over the past week or two. when they figured out that herman cain was going to end up like michele bachmann, like sarah palin, like donald trump, like rick perry, that there is going to be nobody coming in a white hat to save the conservative movement. >> absolutely. there was such as gene was saying a visceral dislike of romney. he is seen as a kind of craven opportunist so that -- and when you consider how many times he's flip flopped on abortion and the flip flops are endless so there is a lack of respect across the board. but also i think that even the people who sort of say they're going to be with him, they do it with such sort of holding their nose. this is going to be dukakis. this is going to be john kerry

for them. so it clearly is, could be an opportunity for huntsman. it really could be. i mean, it is -- if he could just get his act together in some kind of way, i mean, it isn't really too late for huntsman if he could just suddenly have this -- >> it's one thing for people around the table in manhattan to say huntsman's got a shot, which we have said before. >> not the way he is running now. it's quite another when eric erickson in macon, georgia, the epicenter of the conservative movement, says that. that tells you that a lot of people are starting to rumble, that the guy scratches in the national polls right now. he's doing okay in new hampshire. but there's an opening. >> so here is from red state, mitt romney as the nominee, conservativism dies and barack obama wins. eric erickson writes, mitt romney is not the george w. bush of 2012. he is the harriet miers of 2012, only conservative because a few conservative grand pooh-bahs tell us mitt romney is

conservative and for no other reason. that is precisely why mitt romney will not win in 2012. but no worry. once he loses, republican establishment types will blame conservatives for not doing enough for mitt romney. never mind that mitt romney has never been able to sell himself to more than 25% of the gop voters. it's not his fault, though. it is the 75%'s fault. mitt romney is going to be the republican nominee, and his general election campaign will be an utter disaster for conservatives as he takes the gop down with him and burns up what it means to be a conservative in the process. >> and, mika -- >> harriet miers, it's a pretty great -- >> and this doubles down on what i've said about george w. bush. the man who i personally like but a man who at end of eight years -- at the end of eight years after conservatives blindly defended him for the better part of eight years until harriet miers, while i was getting slashed and burned by right wingers for telling the truth about how bush was

destroying conservativism, you turn around at the end of eight years and we've got wilsonian foreign policy all across the board trying to, quote, end tyranny across the world forever. and you've got record deficits, record debts, recklessness as far as the eye can see. and, gene, there are conservatives out there like eric erickson that are saying, no. hey, wait. you know what? we defended this type of politician for eight years under bush. we're not going to do it any longer. >> among those who have written similar things is george will, who wrote a recent column just excoriating mitt romney and ending it by saying, have we as conservatives come this far to settle for this guy? and there is this -- there's this mood out there not to settle. and it's unclear what's going to happen. it's hard for me, frankly, to imagine the path that huntsman has to the nomination.

but stranger things have happened. >> it's not hard to imagine at all. >> what is it? >> he wins new hampshire. >> yes. >> it's hard for him to win new hampshire but it's not hard to imagine the path. i mean, if he -- if romney stumbles, huntsman is living in new hampshire right now. if this, you know, things have happened so fast this year in the republican nomination. people -- we've seen they come out of nowhere. suddenly they're strong. if jon huntsman has a late surge in new hampshire and wins the new hampshire primary he will be the next most likely nominee in the republican party. he'll be strong in florida, in a lot of the big states that will come. that path is easy to see. he just has to win new hampshire and that's hard. >> there is nowhere else to go except for newt gingrich. >> the path is easy to see for a couple of reasons. first of all, no strong candidates. secondly, no strong organization. nobody has the strong on-the-ground organization where they've been there for nine months knocking on doors, getting people really fired up for him. so anything could happen. you bring up newt gingrich. guess what? it could be newt gingrich that surges to the front.

it could be rick perry who finds his second legs. it could be jon huntsman. willie, there are many opportunities, because in a recent new hampshire poll, and this is all about new hampshire, right now. >> huntsman is not even on this. >> no he's not on this. that's national. you look at new hampshire. he is putting all his chips down in new hampshire. 75% of the voters in new hampshire, willie, say they are undecided. >> right. >> who are those independents going to vote for? >> we're talking about a guy who for four months now has been polling at 2%. he's had chance after chance after chance. >> right. >> wait a minute. are you going to blame that on him or are you going to blame it on the side show that this party has put forward? >> well, ultimately -- >> it's three or four side shows. >> ultimately you have to blame him because he hasn't been able to grab the imagination of anyone. >> oh, well okay. it seems people are obsessed with pizza. >> they are obsessed with pizza. >> and 9-9-9 and stupidity. >> i'm hungry. gene, can we go out and get a

pizza? >> yeah. let's get a pizza. how does -- somebody tell me how this huntsman just kind of sling shots through south carolina. this is one of my concerns. i'm not sure i see his appeal there. even if he was in new hampshire. but, you know. >> and you're a south carolina guy so you know. listen, let's not bury the lead here. the lead is that mitt romney is not acceptable to the conservative base of the republican party according to eric erickson. and i would suggest that if anybody knew more than talk radio show hosts, which eric also does that, more than a lot of other bloggers on the right, eric erickson knows the base of the conservative movement in america. and he says, mitt romney is not acceptable. >> and that leads to a question that you raised earlier in the show, john, which is if you take eric's premise that mitt romney will be the nominee, what do conservatives do then? are they really going to stay home and allow barack obama to have another four years to sit

out in protest of mitt romney? >> i think they will. >> this is, what is interesting is -- >> let's face it. one of the things that was attractive about cain was his personal narrative. none of these guys has a narrative that anybody can get jazzed about. at least the guy was a self-made businessman who was soon to come out of nowhere and there was a narrative there that was kind of very attractive. the problem with huntsman as with romney is the personal narrative is just so -- >> okay. governor, ambassador to china, businessman. not a good narrative for this country? i don't get it. >> it doesn't seem to be. it ought to be. >> i'm confused. >> but it isn't ragz to riches or, you know? >> huntsman made a fundamentalal mistake when he first started. he introduced himself to the republican party effectively nationally by doing an announcement where he refused to call himself a conservative. you can't win the republican nomination by posturing from the very beginning as a moderate. especially when you have a very conservative record you must say i'm a conservative. >> the opposite of what romney did four years ago who is a moderate who ran as a

conservative, huntsman is a conservative who has been running as a moderate. >> put the question aside of jon huntsman. bob dole, not beloved by the conservative base. john mccain? not beloved by the conservative base. those people won the nomination in the party. so my question -- i agree. i agree. my question is, joe, to you, because you know more about this than i do, is it different in the nomination fight, forget about the general election, is the dynamic different this time? mitt romney on that model, the fact that the conservative base doesn't love him shouldn't be a prohibitive hurdle for him winning because others have shown that you don't need to have the conservative base to actually win the nomination. john mccain did it four years ago. so is it different in 2012? and does eric erickson and the conservative base have more power now than they had four years ago? enough power to stop mitt romney? >> and by the way, all the conservatives as you know, tried to, with radio shows to stop mccain. >> and it failed. >> the difference is, and we're talking about this yesterday, the difference is, mitt romney

wasn't a war hero. mitt romney -- >> no narrative. >> wasn't a friend of ronald reagan. mitt romney didn't come in as a reagan conservative in 1980. john mccain was a fire breathing right wing arizona reagan conservative for most of his career. he started to change after the keating scandal. he tried to become more moderate on campaign finance reform and in 2000 he knew that he had to run as a moderate to win against george w. bush. >> and he had -- >> guys like my dad would say, when we were trashing john mccain onset here, he'd go, mccain's going to win. my dad connected to mccain. he believed in that story. he loved mccain for what he had done. >> yes. >> mitt romney doesn't have -- who is mitt romney? he's george romney's son.

he worked at bang capital. i'm not knocking mitt. i like mitt. i'm saying for guys like my dad who decide who gets the republican nomination, right, mitt romney is just sort of a big question. pro life? my dad, my mom very pro life. my dad was a money guy. but he would still go, okay. how does a guy in his 50s go from being pro choice to pro life, go from being pro gun control to anti-gun control? i don't get it. i don't get it. >> also when he talks about business, he actually isn't that kind of a businessman that people relate to. he is much more the guy who arrives with a severance package. that's how he comes across. when you look at him that is exactly who he looks like. >> gene, we're being awfully tough on mitt romney. >> yeah. >> we're -- >> ow. >> the guy probably will win the republican nomination but we've been seeing in the polls he has actually jumped up a little bit to 27%. he's ahead of -- 28%.

he is ahead of herman cain. that is a better showing than he's done in sometime. but the bigger story here is that as romney becomes more inevitable he is going to have to deal with more resistance from his right flank. >> he is. and the challenge for him, if he does get the nomination, will be to show a mitt romney that people can see as authentic. nobody sees the mitt romney or the various mitt romneys we observe as the authentic mitt romney. we are not sure which is which. and until he presents that authentic mitt romney that we can relate to, i don't think he's going to make the connection that you need to make to be elected president. >> all right. >> thank you. we'll be reading your column. everyone should. it's on the penn state scandal on "the washington post".com. take a look at it.

really good. still ahead, former president bill clinton will be here onset to discuss his vision for economic recovery. up next, editor of the new yorker david remnick, also chuck todd takes us through the new nbc news "wall street journal" poll what voters are saying one year out from the presidential election and the cover of "newsweek" "money brain" the new science behind your spending addiction. i want to ask tina about that. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. when you're a sports photographer, things can get out of control pretty quickly. so i like control in the rest of my life... especially my finances. that's why i have slate, with blueprint. i can create my own plan to pay down large purchases faster... or avoid interest on everyday items. that saves me money. with slate from chase, i'm always in control. financially, anyway. get slate with blueprint and save money. call 855-get-slate today. and here's what we did today:

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okay. what are you doing? >> everybody's angry aren't they? with us now the editor of "the new yorker" david remnick and in washington, d.c. nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd. we were just talking about eric erickson and his scathing takedown of mitt romney today. i was talking last week. we had the discussion about how conservatives were telling me offline i can't support romney. i would rather obama win than mitt romney win. and it seems as romney gets stronger in the polls and becomes more inevitable, the more you'll see the conservative base really raising their arms in protest. >> well, i heard you guys talking. it wasn't dissimilar to what we heard with mccain, right? this sort of what's going on. there was a movement on talk radio back then to try to stop

mccain and it didn't work. now, part of the fact is you didn't have sort of -- there wasn't a huge echo chamber beyond talk radio to try to do that. you didn't see sort of some of the conservative television guys try to do the same thing with mccain. with romney, i don't know. i mean, it is amazing. he's the weakest inevitable nominee we've ever had in the history of american politics. we talk about him as an inevitable nominee. the white house treats him as the inevitable nominee. he kind of looks that way yet you look in the polls and the numbers don't add up. right? you just can't figure out how this guy gets the nomination unless he runs against rick perry. one thing we did in our poll, joe, is we did two way matchups in the republican primary, one with perry and then that one he was crushing perry and i think that says more about rick perry than anything else but against herman cain it was a dead heat. so there are two republican parties here, right? you have the businessman wing which is with romney and the tea party conservative populist wing

which is with anybody but romney. >> chuck, you have headlines coming out of this poll on the republican side. i think the biggest headline, rick perry's complete, complete, total collapse. let's talk about that. i'm not saying that facetiously. >> no. >> he's got from the 30s to 10%. how does he recover? >> consider this. in the last month, you know, only one candidate lost support. it wasn't herman cain. it was rick perry lost six points. newt gained. i don't know. it's almost as if this is baked in. you know, what happened in the last month? well rick perry actually turned in his most competent debate performance. i don't know if anybody would call it great but it wasn't in the words of brit hume, it wasn't vomit inducing. you know, but what was the other big event last week? well, it was that odd new hampshire speech that went viral even in the midst of the cain feeding frenzy. there is a good -- you don't

hear good, positive news a conservative candidate needs coming out of the rick perry campaign. you just don't see it. >> let's talk about the president sitting at 44%, most incumbents would be very concerned three years in. the right track, wrong track still upside down in a way that would lead -- i mean would lead most campaign managers to have nervous breakdowns. but look at these head-to-head matchups. >> yeah. >> obama versus romney, obama wins. you go to obama versus cain, obama wins big. obama versus perry, don't even think about it. it is -- >> don't go there. >> two very, very weak parties. >> it is. and that's what -- you look at this poll and you sit there and say, boy. and you look at it through the prism of the president and, you know, 10 of 12 potential issues, ten of them the voters say he

has fallen short of their expectations. i mean, it is a terrible grading of the president, yet the republican party's negatives have gone up more in the last month than the democratic party's negatives. i think that the number that fascinates me the most was the hypothetical three way matchup that we did of romney, obama, and ron paul. and we also did michael bloomberg. it was paul that popped the most and what was interesting about paul was that you talk to our pollsters and they say the 18% paul got is not just a number that's close to 19%. it looked like ross perot's 19%. and it was western. it was male. it was younger. so this was the sort of the group of voters who, some of whom are supporters of occupy wall street. some of them are supporters of the tea party. they're all sort of in this idea of the system is rigged against them. they're fed up with the system and they're a little upset. the opening for an angry

populist third party candidate is there. >> let's talk about an angry populace and look at the question about economic fairness. here are the results. 76% agree that the u.s. economic structure favors a small portion of the rich to 12% disagreeing. what does that tell us about either the democratic or the potential republican candidate, david remnick? >> i just wonder about the 12%. how is it arguable that this is not the case? when you look at income disparities they've grown radically in recent years and it's an amazement. and despite anger in the republican right, with all of the people that have tried to grasp that vote and have failed and all the anger directed at romney, you're going to get to a general election campaign and you're still going to have 9% unemployment and a lot of people in pain and i don't think obama is a shoe-in. you know, i have my feelings about all of these candidates on the right, god knows. but i don't think that obama

breezes in as these polls suggest. >> what do you think, joe, the private conversation in washington is about the -- among republicans about the candidates, given these numbers, given the state this country is in and given the candidates? >> it's depression. it really is depression. it is as if -- >> it is psychological depression as if the university of alabama were playing lsu and lsu's first three strings were all like off the field. so they're playing against the fourth string. and alabama still was going to lose. republicans are like this is our year. this guy is so weak, joe. i went into the "times" website and nate silver who is the master of numbers is sort of picking up gleanings that possibly sarah palin can get in. i don't believe it. >> stop it now. >> even nate silver doesn't believe it. >> stop that. >> but just to have talk like that percolate after these -- >> please let's not do it. >> after the unbelievable

performances of last week. >> did chris christie make the mistake of his life in his timing? he was the last one people felt, yes. you know? >> i don't think so. i would have loved to see chris in the race but the bottom line is he wasn't going to win iowa. he wasn't going to win new hampshire. so at some point what state are you going to win? you have to win a state. then he goes to south carolina. >> he is worried enough about new jersey. >> yeah. and if he keeps his numbers high, he's got really high approval ratings. he'll be a good vice president for somebody. but david, where do you see the occupy wall street movement going in terms of influencing the election? it really is -- it is, you put a mirror up, it is the tea party of the left. >> to some degree, and i think the occupy wall street is when you think about it as a reflection of people's anxieties and anger and concern about income disparity and all the rest it is really a powerful movement. the closer you get to it, though, it is very clear that the actual people there are

really thinking hard about what next because, you know, you can't just go on in this same way apart from politics. now, they would say, people there would say, well this is just establishment talk and we've percolated a discussion. that's true. but the actual movement on the ground in zuccotti park and other places is going to run into trouble as the hard core remains and gets cold. people get fed up with it. it's going to -- it has the danger of souring. i think as a reflection of real anger it's an astonishing thing. >> i was absolutely amazed even during the arab spring i was thinking this has got to come to america eventually. i mean, i just really feel it's been a slow burn this anger. it's a long time -- i am astonished there hasn't been real violence before now which i guess is an indication of how much people just believe in our democratic system. >> chuck, 50% in our poll, one-half of everybody who responded, either identifies

with the tea party or occupy wall street. 50%. now, what is it that they have in common? they think a system is rigged. right? the tea party thinks government is rigged against them. occupy wall street thinks the economic system, wall street, and sort of this combination with government is rigged against them. you know, you see how this -- >> it is. >> -- comes together in an angry movement. >> those 50% represent the people. yesterday we had chuck schumer on saying americans aren't ideological. they really aren't. and you can go back to 1968. this 50% represent the people, a lot of them that supported bobby kennedy and then bobby was assassinated. and then as the kennedys say, themselves, they then went to who? george wallace. >> but the bobby kennedy coalition is something we've not seen since. >> right. >> white working class people who were furious about all the

issues -- african-americans, jews, it was a coalition that has never really been completely repeated. barack obama dreamed of it but that was not his coalition. that was not the way it was. >> but it is -- that was put together by people who felt like outsiders who thought the system was rigged. it's the same thing with the tea partiers and occupy wall street. >> here is an incredible thing. i totally agree with what david just said about the protesters and zuccotti park, but the amazing number to me in this poll is that 74% of the country thinks that barack obama was not tough enough on wall street. and 66% think he's fallen short in terms of standing up to big business. that is not -- that is where there is an overlap between -- >> wall street feels injured. >> but that's where an overlap. there's a bunch of people in the tea party. >> chuck todd, a conservative told me yesterday that another problem with romney and with

huntsman is that they believe, and i do, too, they believe a conservative populist running this year could in the words of hank williams set the forest on fire. right? >> you've had them. >> if you've got to get tough you've got to get tough on wall street too. the problem for romney is he is going to look like wall street. >> deeply. >> where is the conservative though who is identified with occupy wall street? that is i think matthew dowd or someone said the other day, what an opportunity it would have been for a real conservative populist to say i don't agree with some of their politics but i agree with this policy. >> chuck todd, final word? >> no, i mean, i think this is what's burning. this is why we're going to have a third, fourth party that's going to pop sometime in the spring. third or fourth party candidates because the dissatisfaction, romney and obama in their bones are not populist.

that's not how they run. that's not how they roll. >> setting the woods on fire was the hank williams song. if you want a parallel, chuck, i think you're right. if it's obama and romney, go back and look at the minnesota race that allowed jesse ventura to be elected. you had two establishment figures. he is leading the country. >> tragic. >> for that we say, good-bye. >> von boyeauge. >> we're very excited. we're going to read something new on the new yorker side. >> we're starting a column called "daily comment." every week for many years "comment" ran in the magazine, the one opinion piece in the front of the magazine. yours truly wrote it. now we'll have comment every single day as a commentary. george packard has a great piece on iraq today. >> awesome. chuck, thank you as well. we'll see you on "the daily rundown" right after "morning joe." >> thank you, chuck. up next is there a science

behind our spending habits? we'll talk to tina brown about the new issue of "newsweek." i'd like one of those desserts and some coffee.

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a live shot of washington. beautiful day. 40 past the hour now. if you're getting ready for work, let's look at the cover of "newsweek." i love this topic. i think we all grapple with it as parents and definitely as a country. let me read from it. it's an article "stop, you can't afford it". economists are waiting to see how the entitled, indulged children of helicopter parents will behave. on one hand many have been showered with every conceivable larges from private music lessons and pricey soccer camps to sat tutoring that got them into a top college. for many of them no was a word they seldom heard from their

parents so eager were mom and dad to compensate for lack of quality time by providing quality time and experiences and stuff instead. even if they are inclined to say they are facing real obstacles, many emerged from college with significantly more student loan debt than those who came before them and they are entering a job market getting weaker by the month. i guess the question, tina, is does the article go on to grapple with, and i can't wait to read it, that perhaps even as a country this generation is getting weaker by the day, given this concept? >> well, the piece actually is very, very interesting because it talks about how the brains of savers and spenders are in fact generally measurably a little different. and the question is raised in the piece, which scientists and neuro scientists are looking at is how you can in fact rewire a brain from being a spending brain to a saver's brain. and one of the things that really does make a difference and has demonstrable results is actually training kids in delayed gratification and they did an experiment where they

have a kid is offered marshmallows one immediately or wait and get another two, get two. and the kids that waited went out of the room and when they came back got the other two did measurably better in s.a.t. scores later. >> that is so interesting. >> so it really shows that that training and wiring in delayed gratification can affect emotional intelligence in a way that's very, very important. >> what made you decide on this as the cover? >> because i feel that everywhere in this country people are having -- looking at the fact that this recession is going to go on and on, that life now is not going to anymore be about boom and bust and boom and bust. it is actually going to be about this sort of flat line for a long time. and they're actually having to think about how to retool themselves from being the people who ran up credit card bills and got into these messes with mortgages and so on and how they've raised kids who have never known any other kind of culture they sort of feel what are we going to do? we've really got to understand

how we're now going to become different kinds of people. i think i'm hearing that all over as people are saying we've got to train our kids to understand that it isn't going to be the affluent life that they were raised to. >> and also that, i mean, there almost seems to really need to be a reset. in my -- >> a reset. >> in my growing up i was surrounded by people, many of whom i don't know, didn't make as -- but they had so many things. i mean, they put everything on credit. i never really understood it because my parents are eastern european immigrants and had a sense of holding back, buy used cars, the whole thing. but around us, mcmansions and people who had everything right away. >> of course the other thing that sharon writes interestingly about is how in fact even as we as a nation in a sense need to understand and retool the brain to actually understand how to hold back from self-gratification, everything about our technology, everything about our culture is more and more sped up to instant gratification. >> exactly. >> how are you going to train kids in delaying gratification

when everything here, everything is about -- >> buy it. can i buy this? >> instantly. so there are actually experiments being done about how you can zap the brain to actually stimulate areas of the brain to in fact change what's happening in a neurological way to make you into someone who does not have such a lack of impulse control. >> what are you laughing at? >> i just like -- it's a one-click world, baby. >> how are you going to delay? >> boom. hit the button. bring it on. delayed gratification. what is the virtue in that? i want it. i want it now. i hit the button. it comes. >> but i just hope you can afford it. that's all. >> another good one. >> too many one clicks for me. >> forget the founding fathers. how women have turned the ideals of the declaration of independence into a reality. [ male announcer ] humana and walmart have teamed up

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professor, and author claire gotiani out with a new book "daughters of the declaration, how women, social entrepreneurs, built the american dream." thank you so much for being on the show this morning. >> my delight. >> let's first talk about the thesis and how women turned the ideals of our founding fathers into a reality. tell us what you write about. >> well, actually, it's the founding fathers themselves who were worried about how these high minded ideals that they had written down in the declaration were actually going to be handed down from one generation to another. when the founding fathers, themselves, were no longer alive. and they had to try to figure out how to get those virtues that they knew had to be part of a democracy to actually go on and they're the ones who got the idea that the answer was mothers. >> it's not so true then of so many of the great political leaders we've seen that mothers

were just key in their whole molding of their ideas? >> absolutely. i mean, there are writings that really the most time with children and the founders said, part of their contribution to the public, never mind voting. that's all political and nasty. the thing that women have which is the most important job is to make sure the public endures. so you have to be young men to be both compassionate and industry yous and teach women to refuse men who don't have republican virtues. >> people think about

influential socially. you think about rockefeller and carnegie and melon and those people who sort of created social entrepreneur ship and if i lan tlo if i. your book as i understand it says there are a lot of women who were doing this before those big named men. is that true? >> it is not only true but all these women for all these years more of us don't know this. t the earliest women entrepreneurs were operating when the ink was still wet on the declaration. john hancock could have been blotched. let rally 1787 and 1778 the first women said this needs to be done in our society. okay. where do we find the money. so they started raising money. how do we get together small societies of women to make sure

this is done. how do we get it from community to community. they were sbentrepreneurs. >> was there some we dekt? how did that get communicated to them? >> interestingly, there is a whole set of documents that we have with the worry, and i know no one among you or the audience will believe this, but it turns out, if men, the funders, were leapt to their own devices, if men were left on their own to do wildly effective wealth building, some of them would be taken with grieve and aborous. >> so interesting they perceive that in the dna of wealth building.

>> men's lack of self control. they said the thing that would make a difference would be virtue. >> the book is daughters of the deck declaration. still ahead, former president bill clinton will be on set. more on "morning joe" in just a moment.

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good morning. it's 8:00 o'clock on the east coast. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on the set. >> here we have in the new york times a tale of two leagues. syria unleashes assault. this is historic. we're talking about -- it is amazing. balance of power in the middle

east. >> big story. >> and the european crisis. >> bumper burlusconi. >> woman accuses cain of groping. he denys the charge. are you surprised a gloria allred press conference with an accuser would make it that way? >> no. somebody is accusing a republican front runner of sexual assault. >> is that what she's doing? >> under the law that's pretty much what she's saying he is. >> he is the republican front runner and not in a newspaper

story or web story. not by a lawyer but by a person who is willing to put her name and face to a charge. serious thing. >> if you watched him last night on jimmy kimmel, he's unphased by this. he's completely unphased by this high pressure shoot it all done. none of this is true. people are saying you have to address this. he's saying i am addressing it. none of it is true. >> do you think it is ironic that gloria had that press conference at the friar's club which is the home of all the sexist jokes. >> one more thing. i just have to talk about this. i love penn state. they are a class program, but the stories that come out, that keep coming out about penn state are disgusting. they're sickening.

for so many good penn state fans out there they have been betrayed by everybody. this guy was caught by janitors molesting little boys that he entrapped in his organization that was supposed to help little boys in 1998 by a janitor. the guy still allowed on campus. in 2002, an assistant saw him molesting a little boy in the shower. he's been taking these little boys to ball games across the country and molesting them. >> a sick story. >> it's a sick story. i'm just going to say what the reality of this case is. it's sad. it really is sad because i love joe paterno but the faktd is you read all around it and they are just afraid to go after the old man. he knew in 2002. the guy was still given access in 2009.

i understand the politics of it in pennsylvania, but joe paterno is at the top of that food chain. it was his assistant coach. he knew about it in 2002. everybody needs to be cleared out now. this is disgusting. >> beloved as joe paterno is, as classy as he's been for the last 60 years at penn state. a graduate assistant came to him in 2002 and said i saw this with my own two eyes and joe paterno didn't take immediate action so he's going to have to answer to that. >> he reported it supposedly. >> that's not enough, but you're joe paterno. >> i was just going to say the fact that they are suggesting he told his boss. >> i was so speechless. i heard that too. >> that's like saying bear bryant's athletic director was his boss. the joe paternos of the bryants

bosses. if they looked at the university president the wrong way he would shake because he knew where the real power was. i understand the politics of this but the pennsylvania state attorney's office is going to have to broaden this. joe paterno and everybody involved is going to have to step down. this is disgusting. >> you hear something like that why wouldn't you just say this guy has got to go right away? why? >> janitor saw it in 1998. 11 years later they were still giving this pervert access to penn state facilities and his organization. it's sickening. on the front page of the usa today by the way. >> you let it go you can assume it's happening to many more

people. >> exactly. wow. all right. one final thing for happy valley, not so happy valley. the battle continues in greece. first greece, now italy. is berlusconi going to go down? >> talk about a teflon politician. this guy has survived political scan dals, financial scandals, sex scandals. the germans hold the power right now. they are trying to dik kate what's going to happen. it's just a slow burn until there is some sort of resolution. greece needs to be resolved and then we can turn our attention to italy. until these things are resolved we're not going to be in good stead here in the united states. >> maybe herman cain can run for

berlusconi's job. >> he would love the bunger parties over there. >> and you don't get in trouble for that. >> seriously. for berluscone we're in total dej its. >> mika doesn't like that bunger thing. >> look at her. >> he's quoting. >> i know what she's thinking. >> what is she thinking? >> she's got something on herman cain. >> i think you have some questions about the accusers perhaps. >> thank you. >> perhaps their motives. >> wow. what an opportunity to actually look at some other facets. >> i think it is interesting. i think herman cain's -- i still don't get why he is even at the top of the list. i don't understand your party. we could go on with the politics of that but you're the expert. you can explain it. i don't get it. i don't even think he should be

there. he was head of the national restaurant association. he was powerful before he was running for president and nobody spoke out then so what does that say about them because if someone is a sexual predator and they do something to you and you don't speak out you're letting it go. and clearly this woman are very interested in the lime light now in taking this on and i wonder what their reasons are. i'm sure i'll get killed online for that. >> money. yeah. it is just interesting. he was powerful before. where was she? where was she? >> at the friar's club. >> she's accepting no money for interviews or anything. >> the whole thing is a pathetic side show. >> now that we've cleared that up let's go to the latest nbc

news. >> finds that herman cain is still within the margin of error of front runner mitt romney. the poll was conducted after the initial report of sexual harassment allegations against cain but before yesterday's public accusations made by a fourth woman. >> see, republicans agree with you. the poll shows cain unchanged from a month ago with 27% trailing the former governor of massachusetts by just five points. romney has gained five points since october. third is newt gingrich. cain does not fair so well trailing the president by 15 points. mitt romney does a little better than cain trailing president obama by six points. obama's approval ratings remain unchanged with 51% of americans disapproving with the way he is conducting his job as president while 57% of americans say they

disapprove the way president obama is handling the economy. the poll also says 73% of americans still think we're on the wrong track as a country. >> a lot of things to look at. first let's begin with rick perry, nbc news, their analyst and their analysis of it. you talked about his collapse being just mind boggling. >> it was mind boggling certainly in etc. size. i think interesting also, the striking thing about rick perry's collapse has been that although we in the elite media have atrebted large -- atrebt - it to his polls. the romney campaign has hammered him over and over again on that about being too liberal. seems to be where he actually

lost most -- he lost by 20 points with tea party voters. >> he was in the 30s when he lost. now he is at 10. he keeps going down. i think second big story here though is that mitt romney is finally giving a little lift. he has gone before this 23 or 24. >> and the romney campaign, they would have always said the notion that there was a hard ceiling was a false notion and that as we got closer and closer to voting and a lot of these voters who were uncertain about romney were parking their enthusiasm with other candidates, that we would start to see that ceiling is actually higher for him than people have thought and maybe this is the first actual tangible evidence, the fact that mitt romney's ceiling is not 24% but is maybe in the low thirties. that would be plenty enough for thim to win the republican

nomination. >> is this serious voters coming home, linking one a guy they don't really like? >> a lot of conservatives just don't like mitt romney but are they thinking jeez, i might as well get bed heend this guy because there is nobody out there worth supporting. >> you know this, joe. often it is the choice of the lesser of two evils for people when they go to the polls. you have to look, for instance, those newt numbers. they are either going to go to mitt or go home, right? they are not going to go across the aisle. as you suggested now for months really it is romney's to lose. it looks like he's in the driver's seat at this point. >> as long as no one is able to gather all of those votes together mitt romney is in good

shape. >> right. and he's steady right there and he's not going to get anymore. i think there you have it. >> interesting too, though. i know these head to head matchups change. in a poll three quarters of the country think we're on the wrong track still has president obama beating mitt romney, beating herman cain badly and still at -- >> i was going to say he's at 44% which most incumbent president this is far along would be very nervous about and yet he's pounding republican candidates which confirms how weak this field is. >> exactly. he's beating them badly and given our economic climate he's beating them badly. 75% of us think the country is going the wrong way still thinks he should be president still. >> a lot of them stay home. >> you think they'll stay home,

john. >> yeah. >> my view is that conservative republicans hate barack obama so much they may vote for anyone. that may prove not to be true. i think the feel towards the president is so great they will hold their nose for romney. up next, former president bill clinton joins us on set to give us his ideas. let's go to bill karins with the weather. >> reporter: yesterday we had a couple tornados in oklahoma. most likely in areas of east texas. maybe into southern areas of missouri. it is just a beautiful day in the east. what a gorgeous tuesday. temperatures 60 to 70 degrees all the way up into southern new england. southeast is fantastic today. all the travel trouble is from chicago to st. louis to kansas

city southwards. from denver all the way to minneapolis there is snow. as far as the tornados, luckily we didn't have any injuries or fatalities but there was picturesque storm chaser videos. couple storm chasers got a little too close. hopefully we won't do this again today but there is a slight chance of that happening. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. the employee of the month isss...

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joe." you can't get away from it, can you? you cannot get away from scc football. we bring the 42nd president of the united states here and we're still talking about scc football. >> i'd rather go over his graphs

and infrastructure on page 107. >> no. we'll talk about lsu. mr. president it is great to have you here. you have written a book which is what america's been talking about for the past several years and they wonder why more washington politicians aren't talking about how to get america back to work. how do we do it? >> well, first i think it is the issue. the argument of the book is that what happened to us in the financial and mortgage melt down typically takes between five and ten years to get over so we can't expect there is a silver bullet but we can beat the odds if we, number one, have immediate boost i personally like the payroll tax cut for employers and employees. i think they have a high return. then the most important thing we can do if you want to get back to full employment economy is

get corporations to give money and unleash bank lepdinding aga >> are the banks too big? >> i don't know. one of the things that bothers me is they're not making small business loans the way they used to. pepper dine, a conservative republican place did a survey that said 40% of small businesses would hire more people if they could get bank loans. and the problem is with interest rates so low by the time a bank does the due diligence on a loan and then you have to make the loan at a low interest rate apparently a lot of people think they are better off sitting on the money. i take the banks the way they are and figure out how to get more bank lepdinding.

that's what the book is about. i think we ought to start this infrastructure bank. i think we ought to have public and private capital in it. we're about the only country in the world that hadn't done a very good job of giving a reasonable return to build infrastructure. i think we can bring manufacturers back in america. >> is that realistic? >> high end manufacturing. >> oh. >> the president of mit who is very good at this, wrote a terrific article the other day talking about how we can bring back manufacturing. the german economy which is almost four times more dependent on exports than ours has maintained a much higher percentage of its work force in manufacturing than the united states does by continually shifting. if you look at the changing energy production which the germans and the chinese have

moved ahead of us in, even in the american economy they have grown twice as fast as overall jobs and they've general rated $55 billion in exports for us a year. there are lots of things we can do. but they all require both a smart economy and a smart government working together. washington is all fighting each other when cooperation is the only thing that works. >> what about people who trust in both of those which i think you can see a little bet of an unraveling. how would you characterize not only occupy wall street but the people who are taking their money out of big banks putting them into small banks. >> that's a good thing i think. >> i think it is too. >> i think when people put their money in banks that promise to loan it back to them to start businesses or put it into the economy, that's a good thing. i was criticized as joe knows,

but some people for enforcing community reinvestment act when i was president. >> uh-huh. >> but we now have a study done by the congress that shows that the banks that loan more money in their communities instead of shipping it out of the community looking for higher returns were actually less likely to fail in this bank crisis. so i like that. that's a simple thing people can do to put their money in a community bank that will be sensitive to their needs. the real problem with the bank consolidation is that there seems to be less interest, not in all of them but in some of them, in making business loans in the community. >> so, on a political strategy level, if you were running for re-election in any type of race, how would you get your arms around characterize, speak for,

with or against occupy wall street if you're democrat or republican? >> i would say i hear you. you have it right to be concerned about the shrinking middle class and rising poverty. you've got a right to be concerned about the fact that so much of the growth the last ten years has gone to the top 10% and most of that to the top 1%. i do believe that those of us in that income group who should be prepared to pay more as part of a long term settlement of that issue. not because we should be punished for being successful but because we're in the best position to pay. because we can do it and we were the primary beneficiaries in the last decade and the tax cuts. but in order for you to do better. >> uh-huh. >> we have to grow jobs and build a middle class and raise incomes. we have to build enough jobs for poor people to have a chance to work their way into the middle

class. that's the only way we can restore american dream type prosperity. then i would say here is the way to do it. we've got to get the investments back into america. we have to emphasize manufacturing green technology and we need to build a modern infrastructure. we can't be 24th in the world and expect to compete. >> isn't that remarkable yet you have people talking about kugt education, cutting infrastructure at a time that china and our competitors or economic rivals are doubling down on these investments. >> china just allocated $34 billion for a new round of manufacturing incentives in solar wind and other green technologies. they'll give you free land, free worker training and a 20 year tax holiday if you'll put a

factory there. ironically we don't have to do all that because we're highly productive. we have a lot of these labs here. but we do have to do some things. north dakota -- >> lot of jobs. >> is getting a lot of jobs out of the oil pipeline business. they also have enough wind to generate 25% of america's electricity. >> wow. >> but the wind blows in america hardest and most kps tently where the people don't live. we have to have more of a national electrical grid so you can transfer it. even when where the sunshines brightest it is not where people live. it is a big deal. we could become completely independent of foreign oil or buy it all from our neighbors in mexico. >> right. >> and use our own because new techniques have made it more efficient. we would be off to the races again. >> let's talk about long-term trends because your book seems

to address those in a way that met cryst political talk just doesn't. now republicans are blaming barack obama for the bad economy. everything that went wrong with bush was his fault. you had your term. jeffrey sax was here and showed a chart that said the average median wage for men in america has been dropping since 1973. 1978 china goes global. we have the problem of productivity. we're more productive today than we were before the recession started and yet we've got 14 million less jobs. union continue to shrink. how do we rebuild this middle class. >> well, first of all, there are long-term trends.

if we never passed a single trade agreement, other countries looked at us and said hey, if we educate people, if we train people, we'll be able to do this. so, basically starting in the mid 70s other countries began to rise in their competitiveness. then we belt a global financial system before we had really a global economic system, much less any kind of plan in place every where in the world for what to do with the displaced. and so what we have to recognize is that we're in an atmosphere of constant change. nobody can change the fact that we're subject to more competition. so we have to set up a system that keeps pushing us in the future, pushing us in the future. the increased productivity is good but what it means is if you keep the same manufacturing output in any country, you're going to lose out every year

because manufacturing is the single most productive aspect of the country. every year fewer people can produce what more people produced theier before. so, you have to ask yourself what can we do this year. what can we do next year. the argument i make in the book is i think that -- i get why conflict is good politics. i enjoy good argument as much as the next person. but what is working in america and around the world are cooperative arrange ms between the private sector and government. that's what make s silicon vally work. that's what makes all those simulation companies in orlando work. it is all this cooperation. we need to just kind of recalibrate how we're going to think about this. there is roughly 200 million people in the world today looking for work who don't have it. we've got to just reorganize

this country so we're in the comp. tegs busine competition business. how best to bring manufacturing back. what's the right kind of incentive. but if we are in conflict about getting rid of the government and all taxes are bad and all that we'll never get to the main subject. >> and we always talk about what republican eisenhower did. >> built interstate highway. >> had a massive investment in science that took us to the moon 12 years later. i think i heard the average age of an engineer that night in july 1969. 27 years old. >> absolutely. >> that was the government creating one of these public private partnerships. >> national defense education did a brilliant thing. i got one of those loans as a young man. >> made all the difference,

didn't it. so, what is act number one moving forward? >> one of the headlines in your book that's certainly getting around is you have been frustrated by the difficult he's had in getting the white house to hear your advice. >> getting what? >> it says it is clear that you were frustrated by the difficult you have had in getting the white house to hear your advice. >> well, the only thing that i recommended that they couldn't do once they lost the congress was to get a loan guarantee program like the small business administration loan guarantee for building retro fits so that everybody who owns a building could pay it back only from their utility savings. you've got all these construction workers out there. you have all these firms. we don't need new buildings and new houses. but you could make more energy efficient every school building, every college building, every commercial building without significant debt. the housing structure in

america. but in this economy people need to be able to pay it off only from their savings. there was a bill signed in new york, great bill which allows people to pay off their energy efficiency work on their utility bill. that's the key. so, once they lost the congress np wasn't possible. but i think the president's energy policy in general goes in the right direction. my own view is that if we could marry that with the bipartisan proposal, it's been in the senate for a couple years, to have an infrastructure bank that allows americans like you and me to buy bonds and get a return. we would join our major competitors in building modern broad band connections, modern

electrical grids. upgrading our roads and bridges with private capital. i think those things would do more than anything else right now to put america back to work. >> mr. president how can america be 24th in broad band infrastructure? it is just outrageous. >> the great thing about america is it is highly competitive. easy to start a business. so years ago before me, before anything, we didn't want to be too regulatory about -- like how we started the cell phone business. we have coverage every where. we grew like crazy but we didn't have uniform standards for where there would be towers and how we would be connected. as a result we still have more cell phone interruption than any major country on earth. then when we grew we didn't continue to set aside a certain amount of money to invest in

modernizing our infrastructure. we slowed down the way we were building things as i explain in this book. and so i think it's time for us to remember that if you go all the way back to abraham lincoln who finished the intercontinental railroad system, finished funding it while the civil war was going on and established land in every state of america for public universities. we were just talking about the alabama/lsu game. the university of arkansas is the oldest state university west of the mississippi river. that was done by abraham lincoln in the middle of the civil war. so we've always been into these kinds of investments and we sort of drifted away. we can put america back to work. keep in mind, these kinds of

invest m investments generate lots of jobs. >> one of the arguments the republicans make is that president obama got what he wanted, everything he wanted almost and here is where it got us. mcconnel has said it a few times and yet you have been quoted as saying obama has done a better job than he's being credited with. >> absolutely. >> what's been misconstrued. >> first, he didn't get everything he wanted. secondly, when he passed the stimulus bill, he was acting on the basis of the government data available then. a year after the stimulus bill passed, the final figures came out on the debts of the recession which were -- the recession actually bottomed out six months after he became president. turns out the gdp of america shrunk not 3.8% but 7.5%.

the stimulus bill helped put a floor under temperature recession but couldn't lift us out of it. $800 billion stimulus can't get you out of a $7 trillion hole. i think that we've all suffered. i had to go back and study all this when it happened. i was trying to get a handle on it. we've all suffered from the experience of america through the last three or four recessions. when we got over it in a year, six months. if you look at historically go back hundreds of years, these financial collapses take five to ten years to get over and if there is a housing collapse, it pushes it towards ten years. the japanese were in their slow down period ten years. now, they could weather it because they had a 20% personal

savings rate but they couldn't get out of it until they flushed their real estate debt which is why i argue in the book we should put the pedal to the medal and push through the housing debt. >> so we talked a couple years ago and i asked you a question at the enabout whether guys like you should be able to run again because i will guarantee you we le get back to the office and we'll be gloded with flooded wi and people will say why can't this guy run for president in 2012 and of course you can't because republicans didn't want there to be another fdr like in the 1920s. but shouldn't a president be able to take two terms, take time off and run again? shouldn't americans have that choice? >> yes. i believe that should be the rule. i think as a practical matter,

you couldn't apply to anyone who has already served. going forward i personally believe that should be the rule. look at president reagan. he was 70 years old when he ran. john mccain was older than that and he clearly had all of his capacity. people are living longer. they are developing great erica passty. >> other countries are able to do it. church hill booted after world war ii came back. >> parliamentary systems do it. glad stone served four times. the last time when he was 82. but the main thing is in this era of instantaneous communication, we should worry more about getting our heads on straight about the nature of the problem and working our way out. i do think the president has done a better job than he's gotten credit for. but americans hire presidents to

win for them. he understands that. but they just need to understand that this is going to take some time to get out of and we have to begin. the only strategy that will work is one that a, is already toward the future and b, relies on both the private sector and government to work together. that's the point of the book. with all the specifics that's the point of the book. >> okay. >> the key points he makes you too can agree on. you say that everyone is betting against the united states in the past has lost. they will continue to lose. >> yeah. if we can get out of this -- >> don't bet against america. >> when i was a kid i still remember vividly as yesterday. then head of the soviet union saying he was going to bury the united states. he didn't mean in war. he meant they were going to out produce us. they don't exist anymore. then when i became governor of the united states the second time i said we're going to grow manufacturing jobs here. everybody thought the japanese were going to bury us.

but they didn't. so, this is very hard on younger people and very hard on middle aged people without a college education who lost their jobs. this is horrible. i'm not trying to minimize the angst here. but there is a way out of it and we've got to find it. so far everybody who has bet on the united states from the time when they said george washington was a second rate general and modest with wooden false tooetd to the time they said the japanese were going to bury us, now the chinese. so far everybody has lost money. we have to make sure they lose money again. >> former president clinton, thank you very much. why we need a smart government for a strong economy. mr. president, thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> melissa francis is next with

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tradearchitect. only from td ameritrade. welcome to better trade commission free for 60 days when you open an account. welcome back to "morning joe." let's check with business with melissa francis. take it away. >> that was a fantastic interview. tough to follow. we're watching the situation in italy. berlusconi, they are continuing to hold to office. but the bond market is betting on whether or not he is going to be able to stay. when they think he is going to go they start buying the italian debt. when they think he is going to stay they start selling.

this really impacts what it takes italy to pay their bills. that's how they get it done. the problem is we don't really know what would happen if berlusconi goes. the market is assuming that a group will come in and take over, that these would be economist and former imf officials. people who with respect holding to the population who could come in and make really unpopular choices and cut down the budget and break down some of things that have been causing italy to balloon. they done know for sure. italy continues at the forefront today to be the thing that's driving markets here. >> melissa we'll keep watching. thank you so much. >> my pleasure. >> mika we got sad news yesterday. boxing legend joe frazier died at the age of 67. best known as the rival of mohamm

mohammed ali. >> he was one of the most feared and respected of any heavy weights. joe frazier won a gold medal in the '64 olympics. in the 70s smoking joe became the first to beat mohammed ali, knocking him down at madison square guaarden in 1971. that was the first of three epic battles between frazier and ali. ali would beat smoking joe in a rematch. the final matchup, a brutal 14 round fight known as thriller in manilla. after that legendary battle frazier would step into the ring two more times but would never recapture his heavy weight title. bitter for many years about the way ali had treated him frazier had only recently forgiven ali

for his brutal taunts. in the end frazier finished with 32 wins, four losses and one draw. after retirement frazier battled financial problems eventually opening a gym in philadelphia. but smoking joe will always be remembered as one of the greats, a true bruiser whose devastating left hooks helped take out the greatest of all times. >> coming up next on "morning joe," what have we learned today. >> number one, we fought together. we touched each other in one fight back in the 70s. know what i mean? [ female announcer ] investing for yourself

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we're just going to keep asking you about this. there is no way to move forward. tiger woods tried to not tack about things and that department work out for him. >> when i made the statement that i'm done talking about this, i was talking about the fire storm last week. i wasn't talking about this new storm we discovered today. no. we are going to talk about this one and i am going to talk about it at the press conference. >> and if there are future fire storms will you talk about them.

>>ly talk about any and all future fire storms. here is one thing people don't know about herman cain. i'm in it to win it and i'm not going to be discouraged. i almost said something else. >> you told maybe some reporters when people get on the cain train they don't get off. >> that's right. >> do you regret that choice of words, a, and b, what does that mean exactly? >> i don't regret that choice of words. when people believe in herman cain and his message they know that it is sincere. >> welcome back to "morning joe." time to talk about what we learned today. john, what have you learned. >> herman cain is turning into bob dole. i have heard eric edwardss is reconsidering so hell is tu

turning. and i heard clinton wanted a third time. >> he did not say that. >> i say that with hope and optimism. if we can change the system and make that possible, wouldn't be bad. >> if bill clinton ran this year -- >> that's what i learned. he is against term limits for presidents going forward, not retroactive. >> going forward. mika, i learned he's got a great book. >> uh-huh. >> and there is so much in there that he talks about what we talk about everyday. not slashing on investment. having to take care of the long-term debt issue, regrowing the economy and middle class. what have you learned? >> the republican party might actually want to win. i don't know. >> they may.