>> indeed. >> theare your show, which starts right now. >> there it is! breaking news right now on wall street as economic stress resulting from massive bank leverage in the eurozone is leading to yet another major selloff on wall street. down more than 3% across the board, we've got it all covered this hour, but our first big story today, armed and dangerous. good wednesday afternoon to you, i'm dylan ratigan. and iran closer than ever to developing a nuclear we and a way to launch it. the u.n.'s nuclear watchdog, the international atomic energy agency says iran is making significant advancements but emphasizes iran has still not succeeded in building a nuke. iran, of course, down playing the report calling the iaea a u.s. puppet. the fallout from this report already being felt, however,

washington claims a nuclear iran would trip an arms race, perhaps folks in saudi arabia are paying attention to that. not to mention perhaps a preemptive attack from israel. iran not doing this alone. guidance for most of iran's extremely high-tech advancements came from an old soviet weapon scientist north korea, and get this, pakistan. you know pakistan. one of our so-called allies, recipient of $4.5 billion in u.s. aid last year alone. that's $4.5 billion u.s., your money and mine paid to them last year. pakistan has its own nukes as you probably know and a joint report by the national journal and the atlantic shows that our "ally" in this -- is so paranoid after the bin laden raid that the u.s. will sneak in and de-nuke pakistan that pakistan

is now routinely moving fully assembled nuclear weapons from one hideout to another. and because they don't want their friends in washington to know, pakistan is moving the fully constructed nukes in your common every day minimally protected minivan. this down the streets of the cities of pakistan. sounds like an inviting target for, i don't know, a terrorist group. the report says "the pakistani government is willing to make its nuclear weapons more vulnerable to theft simply to hide them from the united states." as we like to say, with friends like that, who needs enemies? we start with the co-author of the extensive article that appears in "the national journal" and "the atlantic." anthony shafer who knows all about iran, pakistan, afghanistan, and their relations with terrorist groups. let's start on iran, tony, do we

really have the ability to know what iran's capabilities are and how suspicious should we be considering our obvious inability to know what iraq's possible capabilities were before we invaded that country? >> well, i think in this case, we've been able to trace the other elements, other countries involved. the pakistanis, the chinese, the russians. they've all had a role to play in helping move things down the road. and i think we have a better picture of that. with that said, the iaea and its report today i think is very clearly indicating that there's a -- there's evidence of a nuclear program. and this is what worries me. you know, i work this issue back in the '90s regarding the north koreans. and i'm seeing the exact same thing now watching in slow motion the north koreans develop a we, same thing here with the iranians. i still see -- i do believe they have a credible program that the weapons if they're not ready to go, they've been designed -- and they're dispersed and all they have to do is put them together. >> mark, i want to quote a

little further from your work in the "national journal" and "the atlantic." and you wrote the following. very few figures in the highest ranks of the american and pakistani government suffer from the illusion that their countries are anything but adversaries. the relationship has survived as long as it has only because both countries have chosen to pretend to believe the lies they tell each other. that sounds like the u.s. economic system that you're describing, as well. how long can the lies that are the foundation of all these relationships maintain themselves? >> well, not for long. it would probably take one incident where militants in pakistan were to get ahold of either material or a made nuclear weapon for that very fragile relationship to r in mi of the equities that the u.s. has -- what we're getting for

$4.5 billion. well, in theory, pakistan will help, in theory, manage our transition out of afghanistan which the obama administration is trying to speed. but once u.s. troops are out of afghanistan, there's very little in common with the exception of the fact that the u.s. knows and this goes back to iran. if iran does develop a nuclear we, you mentioned the saudis, not only saudis, but turkey, other countries are going to look to pakistan for the technology, and the u.s. wants to have some say in who pakistan gives the nuclear technology to down the road should something happen. this is one reason why everything pakistan does, the u.s. believes it's in its interest to sustain this weird hybrid lie/love/hate relationship with pakistan. >> at the same time, you could look at pakistan like a brilliant businessman or weasel, tony, where they take the $4.5

billion to make america feel like they have some say as to what happens to the nukes and pick up $4.5 billion, which ain't chump change last i checked and i still do whatever i want because what are the americans going to do anyway? we'll take their money and we'll screw them. >> right, and i think mark is correct in this. one of the biggest failures of every administration, dylan, that we've faced is this complete denial that the pakistanis will always act in their own interest. this is what they fail to understand. the pakistanis are going to do what they feel is best for the pakistanis, and if that means dealing with the iranians and selling technology, they're going to do it. we keep pretending otherwise. you and i talked about this. i call it the policy of wishful thinking. we keep hoping and wishing they'll behave differently, but they never do. this is why we're doing it to ourselves. >> let's talk around this to educate me and everybody else a little further, mark. as to those who have the strongest interest in

intervening against either a rogue pakistan -- i shouldn't say rogue -- a non-aligned pakistan with american interests and a nonaligned iran with american interests. you mentioned turkey, obviously israel, i presume keeps a close eye on iran's nuclear developments, america has also reached out to india, which is also in gray to the right of pakistan. what is the triangulation around iran and pakistan that america and saudi arabia and turkey and israel and india actually have? and is it of any potency? >> it -- it may be of some potency. i think the country -- one country you haven't mentioned is key to that, which is china. because china has considerable influence in pakistan and some influence in iran and certainly in some of the other countries, as well. one of the things, for example, that the u.s. has been trying to do is convince pakistan to

accept some chinese technology that would increase the safety. if the u.s. seeks additional sanctions from the u.n., which they may well do, france is calling for them in the wake of this iaea report. it's hard to figure out what else they'll sanction at this point because iran's pretty much sanctioned to the point where their economy has stalled and we know quite a bit about that. but china is -- is the key. but one thing to remember and colonel shaffer said this well, all of these countries are going to hackett in their own self-interest first, that includes india which is going to play the u.s. against china and essentially get as much economic assistance as it wants. so we don't actually have considerable leverage in the region. and that is one argument despite the fact this relationship is

based on gossamers and band of lies. it's worth staying in the region, it's worth having a presence there. >> welm, really the question that your analysis begs, tony, and maybe you can speak to this briefly is it really comes down to america's leverage with china. and the only leverage i see america having with china is the massive size of our marketplace as the buyer of the products of chinese labor protecting the chinese government from an uprising driven by unemployment in china. >> well, absolutely. we need to look at this as a chess game. everything is related in some form. and frankly, the chinese have problems with their own economic system. and i think there are some things we can leverage with them. this is a case where the white house has to lead. i just spoke with mark ginsberg, he was just in israel. the israelis are feeling their back's up against the wall. they may do something. this is where we need to defuse.

>> listen, thank you for the analysis, you guys. and great reporting on your part, mark, congratulations on the publication of your journalism if only it brought different tidings. but as they say around here, the truth will set you free, but first it'll piss you off. tony shaffer says it could open a whole new can of worms. a new book that goes into the top secret mission to get osama bin laden. firsthand accounts from navy s.e.a.l. team six, and as we continue with our theme of armed and dangerous, exploring the shadow world of global arms trade, how u.s. weapons end up in the hands of the world's most deadly villains, of course they do, it's too big of a business. plus, first it was snakes on a plane, now it's porn on a plane. we'll explain. and of course, we have full coverage of another chaotic day on wall street as u.s. uncertainty driven by highly levered banks in the west continues to infect your 401(k). .

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well, back to today's big breaking economic news, u.s. markets in a little bit of a drop there. 3% there on your 401(k). don't worry, it's entirely in your control, it's just being -- piled so much debt on the economy the size of dallas, texas. a little smaller that your retirement has been put at risk. but don't worry, the people are on it. joining us now the professor from california irvine. and i don't understand how a

seasonal system that can lever up -- i guess jon corzine was 44 to 1, will we see leverage of 100 to 1 still in some of these structures? it's a huge issue for pretty much millions of people's 401(k)s and houses and jobs, but who really cares about them? why is it that the u.s. and western governments are so in favor of this economic system? >> ell, dylan, i think what's going on here is kind of a replay in europe of what we went through in 2008. and it's too big to fail and all you have to do is substitute the governments of italy and greece and portugal for banks here like citi corp., and they don't want to let these countries fail. and it's because the big banks control the politicians in germany and in france and places where they're lending the money, just like the banks control the politicians here. it's not good news for america, dylan. >> what are the -- since president obama has codified

this leverage structure, right? jon corzine was a potential candidate to be treasury secretary. so much so, they charged an extra 50 basis points for fear they might be coming control of the treasury and he's 44 to 1. so obviously the government of america in the west believes that gambling with $40 to $50 for every $1 somebody else has is good for somebody, i just don't know who. >> it fueled a lot of wealth. but the important thing for the american people to understand right now is there's no good end to this european crisis. if they bail out these countries, it's going to mean they're going to print a lot of euros. and that means the dollar's going to get stronger and we're going to have trouble selling our exports and the economy will continue in the slow growth. if they don't bail them out, basically we'll have a financial gridlock over there and the global meltdown. so, you know, i think we need to kind of rethink about what we're doing here in the global

structure and come to understand that one thing, dylan, for ten years now, ten years the american economy has grown at 1.6% annually instead of 3.5% like it did in the five decades before that. and what that has meant is misery. if you put $1 in the stock market in the year 2000, it's worth about $1 today. it's not going anywhere. and it's basically because we don't know how to create jobs here. in america we don't know how to create jobs in europe, and this is what we have. >> is not the root of the problem massive bank leverage? >> it is, dylan. >> the same problem it has been all along. >> right. and basically the massive bank leverage disguise basically a decade of loss or the manufacturing base from the shores of america and the shores of europe. and because of that lemplg, because of things like the housing atm machine, we were able to disguise the rot, the dry rot in our economy.

and now that is all imploding. and you know, the german big banks, french big banks don't want to allow the system over there to fail. and so they're putting pressure on the politicians there to basically run the euro money machine just like bernanke did in 2008. and, you know, it just can't go on, dylan. it really can't. and, you know, the people here and the people in europe who want a job and decent wage and live with their family, they're getting hammered by this. >> isn't it true the people getting hammered don't really matter? they don't have money -- >> yeah, they don't matter to the political system. >> the money wins. who really cares about most of the people? really? >> look, it would have been cheaper here in america to simply buy every mortgage back in 2008 and make it whole. it would have been cheaper, you know, we had the moral hazard and all of that, but instead, what we did was gave a bunch of money to a financial sector that now is twice as powerful as it

ever was. and the same thing is happening under europe under the banner of too big to fail and is basically countries instead of companies. but, again, this can't end well. and i think, you know, the euro will break up. i predicted that a year ago. it has to because fiscal austerity will not fly politically. and ultimately countries like greece and italy have to get out of the euro devalue and export their way out of the crisis. again, this is not good for america. americans have to understand, when this crisis hits, it hits us because it strengthens our dollar, makes it difficult for us to export to the world. >> thank you, peter. we now turn to our wednesday megapanel. lloyd weber, u.s. editor of reuters breaking the views. rob, how is it that the goth to the west can say, look, it's totally fine to create 50 to 1 leverage and then act as if they're confused as to how we

got into these problems? >> well, peter's right. we're looking at countries -- it's a mathematical replication of the problem? >> yes, but we should've learned something. there should be some solutions we can apply here that aren't quite the same ones where you have a massive bailout of everybody. greece is a fundamentally insolvent country if you will. it is never going to be productive enough to pay off the debts it took on when all the -- >> and rationally at 50 to 1 leverage, nobody should be willing to lend an economy that kind of money. >> mistake made, people thought -- and they didn't quite understand what it meant to be part of the euro. the euro is not a fiscal union, so it will not be -- german taxpayers aren't going to bail out the way -- >> what's provocative to me is the fact that the banking system has not been renovated after everything that happened in 2008, after everything that we've been through, the guy who just most recently went down,

jon corzine was considered so prominent and so important, jonathan, that the bond market wanted extra premium until case he became treasury secretary. and his plan is to take pension money and go 44 to 1 on credit derivatives in europe. you can't make it up! >> welm, no, you can't because -- now he already did it. after listening to peter and after, you know, many megapanels and every day watching the d.r. show, i find myself asking the same question every day. so what on earth do we do when you don't have people in washington making the tough decisions when you don't have people in the capital of europe making the right decisions -- >> and if you look at history, and this is perfect that we're getting to you at this point, if you look at history, when we don't deal with these problems, we go to a giant world war. we did it in world war ii, the civil war -- that's what we do, and then at the end of the war we're like, okay, welm, what do

you say we restructure the debt? instead of restructuring the debt before the war. and i'm not suggesting -- >> forego the war. >> skip the war and do a third marshall plan. >> the trouble is, we're missing leaders at the moment. no leader is strong enough to lead. with the eurozone, you're dealing with 17 countries, 17 different democracies. huge problems with all of these leaders back home domestically, you've got obama with his problems domestically. until we hit massive, massive crisis point, apparently we're not. we're not going to see a solution moving forward. >> you have to think this was going back to my old financial reporting days. but if the euro does break up, gold has got to double in price. >> so much money hiding out in euros that if that currency goes away, it's not just the u.s. dollar, it's all -- it's all that metals that just explode, right? >> well, gold is already at a price that is -- >> anticipating the potential loss of sovereign values all

over the place. >> right. >> but just on one small point on this, i mean just going back to mf global, it's a small thing, but remember, taxpayers money is not being involved right now. >> i didn't suggest that. >> but there's -- >> taxpayer money's being involved -- >> you could argue that -- i've interviewed jon corzine, the idea was to take a lot of that -- all that business that the big banks were no longer allowed to do because of the regulations, it gets put off to the shadow banking industry, which is what these guys do. they think they're smarter, they can get away with it, they can go 40 to 1. >> and arbitrage the central bank. arbitrage trade, but that is so sickening -- >> the taxpayers -- >> not isolated -- >> every other bank in the country doing the same thing! >> i'm not sure -- >> i'm not saying what they're doing that is what i'm saying is when the trade for the bond traders is buy the debt because it's an arbitrage trade against

the central banks having to print money to bail them out, that is the world's largest -- >> carry trade -- >> blank you to every human being in europe, every human being in america because you don't matter, you don't matter, the millions of americans do not matter. i will dilute their houses, i will dilute their currency, i will inflate the cost of everything that they own because i know that i'm a really -- and everybody can bugger off, and that's beyond my comprehension that any politician would accept that. >> what are they? i mean, i don't see inflation in the united states. >> you don't see inflation in the united states, but you do see cotton prices up 85%, wheat prices up. and if you -- and the brilliant thing about this was, you don't see it in the united states because you're able to screw over everybody in africa, southeast asia, everybody in the middle east, and it's much better if you're an american to screw over people you don't know

than americans. >> not just our manufacturers? >> well, the poorest people in the world are the ones who spend 70% of their money on food. so when i double the cost of tortillas, of rice, of pasta, it means nothing to you and me. but when i do it to people who don't have a penny in cairo as a way to cover up the bank trades in america, it's because i don't give a crap about those people. anyway, the panel stays in case you were worried. yes, the economy is still dangerously unstable. check out my new blog on jon corzine's new fall, greece, and the pearls of betting big with other people's money. the panel stays. coming up, arming the enemy, our specialist takes us inside the shadow world of global arms trading. stick around for this. we're talking billions, bribes, and deadly consequences after this.

more armed than dangerous for you. it's no secret selling weapons is a big business. estimated worth over $40 billion in 2010 alone. that's good money, and that's just the deals we know about. the leader seller of weapons to the world is us, the united states, 52% of the arms market controlled by us. and according to the congressional research service, the majority of our customers for those weapons go to developing nations, places like saudi arabia where they're really nice to women or china where they're really nice to the slaves that make our iphones, or india, which doesn't believe in a class system at all. it's something that worries our next guest who says that america's arm trade deals have deeply corrupted our world and given power to the wrong people time and time again. our specialist is andrew feinstein, a former member of africa's parliament who helped

expose an arms scandal. he's also the author of "the shadow world inside the global arms trade." i don't know that any of this is terribly shocking to a lot of folks. this is one of those things, andrew, that people feel helpless to do anything about. >> yeah. absolutely. but there are some simple things that can be done. let's first talk about the real picture. it's not just a matter of fact that the global trade in arms accounts for almost 40% of all corruption in all global trade. but it's that these we weapons land in the hands of the people we don't want to have them. in the case of libya, the united states was selling gadhafi more weapons than the guy could use, more weapons than he had people to use. and what happens during the arab spring? surface to air missiles amongst other things land up on the black arms market. and who knows whose hands they're going to land up in now.

>> go ahead. >> it is unbelievable. in the five years leading up to the arab spring, western countries arms sold about $2 billion worth of weapons to the five countries that came down hardest on protesters. how is that -- that's going to come back to haunt us western nations, isn't it? >> absolutely. in a whole range of ways. not only because people who if they do take power in some of these uprisings are going to be extremely angry about who armed the dictators that were oppressing them. that's the first instance. the second instance is what they're going to do with the weapons they inherit. and in the process, we're making ourselves and the producing countries poorer, and we're making a lot of incredibly dodgy middle men and agents a whole lot richer. >> jonathan? >> andrew, when the rebels in libya were starting their push on gadhafi, there were lots of people in this country

complaining about the fact that the united states, president obama wasn't doing anything to help them. and one of the things people were pushing for was the united states to arm the rebels, even though we didn't know who was -- who was in control. was the united states right to be cautious in just sending over a carton of we weapons to folks we didn't know? >> absolutely. i think there's two sides of the story. what was the first thing the nato air strikes had to do? they had to destroy the weapons they had been selling to gadhafi. then you're trying to get arms to this group, you don't know who they are as you said, jonathan. but in the second instance, you don't know how these weapons are going to be controlled. so the possibility of their turning up on the black arms market where anybody who has the cash can buy them are extremely high. so caution was not altogether a bad thing. >> how much of what's actually

happening is sort of what i guess you'd call in the corporate world risk sharing? so in the united states government says -- the pentagon wants to build some super duper fighter, it goes out to the friendly neighbors, canada, australia, south africa and says, folks, this is going to cost a lot. we have to develop this, we need early orders, we promise we'll give you this fabulous new we, these planes, how much of that is part of what we're looking at when we talk about global arms trade? and it's not actually -- is that corruption? or is that just real politic or something? >> well, it depends on the nature of the deal. we've seen instances in which those sorts of arrangements were where a buying company doesn't particularly need or want that sort of equipment, but with some concessions from the selling country -- in this case the united states -- they'll agree to go along and they'll take 20 of the jets.

so it ranges across the continuum of legality from the legal all the way across to the completely illegal. and i experienced that firsthand in south africa just four years after nelson mandela became president of south africa, we decided to spend $10 billion on arms, mainly from european wes manufacturers. now, the real reason for those deals because we didn't need them, we bought 26 grip and jet fighters from sweden, 11 of them have ever been in the air because south africa can't use them, can't afford the fuel, can't afford to train the pilots to fly them. why did the deal happen? $300 million of bribes paid to the decision makers who in the arms trade always very small group of people, and everything they do is hidden behind the veil of national security imposed secrecy. >> andrew, thank you for your time today. and for making us feel better

after that depressing bank conversation we just had. >> dylan, let me -- let me add -- let me add a moment of depression to what you were talking about earlier. >> sure. >> it's just come to my attention that in greece where they're having to cut pretty much everything, where they don't have the most basic supplies in hospitals at the moment. but enormous pressure has been put on them by germany, france, and the united states not to cut a penny out of their defense spending because of the ratio of gdp, they are one of the biggest european defense buyers, and who did they buy from? 42% from the usa, and they're germany's biggest market in the european union, 12.5% to france. i wonder how the greeks feel about that. >> i'm sure there's a highly levered bank who would be happy to loan them money to buy weapons. the book is "the shadow world." the panel will see if they survive the nature of today's conversation with smiling faces

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[ bell dinging ] to take charge like many chefs today,uture. i feel the best approach to food is to keep it whole for better nutrition. and that's what they do with great grains cereal. see the seam on the wheat grain? same as on the flake. because great grains steams and bakes the actual whole grain. now check out the other guy's flake. hello, no seam. because it's more processed. now, which do you suppose has better nutrition for you? mmm. great grains. the whole whole grain cereal. well, the mission that killed osama bin laden like you've not heard it before. our next guest claims to have learned surprising new details of the raid from s.e.a.l. team members themselves. and his story differs greatly from the official white house account. differing information on whether there ever was a fire fight.

our guest says the kill happened in less than 90 seconds with just 12 bullets. to when exactly the helicopter lost control, and even a contradictory explanation of this now famous photo, our guest says they're watching the chopper crash, not osama bin laden's final moments. joining us now is chuck farr, former navy s.e.a.l. and author of "s.e.a.l. target geronimo." why are we to believe your narrative of what happened relative to the government's narrative or the analysis of any other military official? >> well, first you've got to pick which one of the government stories you want to run me against. is it the 45-minute fire fight? is it that he was not armed? their story kept devolving, and

the fact that, you know, the president made his statement all well and good, perfectly stand as a piece of rhetoric just fine within minutes after that, politicians who knew some fragments of fact were putting that forward. these points of disconnected contradictory facts eventually by august metasticized. that's a tale of murder, not a special operation. >> how do i tell the difference if i have the benefit of somebody like your expertise between an effective operation and a bloody tale of murder? >> well, let's look at it this way. you've got two helicopters approaching the target. i'm not giving away any tactics to tell you that the high ground is where you want to go. one helicopter goes down allegedly on insertion, that's why you have two helicopters, why wouldn't the second land on

the roof which is the nub of the operation. and am i really to believe that the second helicopter diverted to put its guys down on the other side of a 20-foot wall with a 10-foot steeled gate? it doesn't float as we say. >> what would be typical protocol for a search and kill as opposed to a search and capture mission like this? >> you want to capture, you know, you don't want to -- we don't get sent out the door with kill this guy. i'm a commissioned officer in the united states navy, or i was, you go out and tell me to kill some guy no matter what, that's an unlawful order. in our armed forces you are obligated not to carry out unlawful orders. be that as it may, this mission goes out to get mr. bin laden, it's time lined going just as clockwork on a special operation. they get there, helicopter does not encounter trouble on insertion, it lands on the roof, it deposits its guys, they jump

on to the balcony, they're in the building, surging down the hallway, bin laden's son comes up the stairs, he's neutralized, door pops open, there's osama, slams the door, they call geronimo, they burst in the door, they got him. we're talking 90 seconds, we're talking 120 seconds, these guys operate. you hit them so hard so fast. now this is making sense to me. time distance motion. why would you land outside the compound to fight your way in? >> but even more interesting, why would you portray that you landed outside the compound to fight your way in if you didn't? >> well, i think what happened -- and i had to deconflict a lot of stories that i was getting from people. their boots on the ground, guys that saw something but not other things. i had people from certain agencies really trying to sell me their version of the story. okay. these -- these guys -- this is

what made sense to me that the operation went as planned. you want to attack top down, time, distance, motion, it's the simplest story, it's what i was hearing -- >> but you didn't answer my question, which is why would the government present a narrative in which u.s. naval officers are placed outside of the compound in a situation where they have to fight their way in like rambo to get to geronimo? >> i think the president made a statement and he was not very well served by his staff, the information started to leak, contradictory information, incomplete information, they had to reel these stories in. i think eventually they gave up pretty much in disgust, they froze everything off. this incomplete narrative just hung there. and they just gave up trying to correct it. >> back through, and what -- you argue that the basis for your analysis is based on direct

interaction with navy s.e.a.l. team six. >> people in the position to know farther up looking down the chain. >> much as you are, view that obviously if you're instructed to kill or carry out an illegal order that you would reject that order. does that not also fall into the ability of you or anybody else to find out what happened? >> well, i'm approaching this as a historian, but i'm also part of the tribe, you know. i was a former commander at the command. you know, i had a little heart burn when i embarked on this project. do i get in here and do this? but you know what? the story that was standing was not furthering our purposes. you know -- >> what was so offensive to you about the current narrative? and what do you hope we come to understand about your reframing that helps us? >> i would say, look, this was an operation that was conducted in a military operation, mr. bin laden was resisting, you know,

there was one civilian casualty there wounded because her husband was engaged in a fire fight with a passing helicopter. when this operation happened and this story began to wobble around, they deserved better. somebody should've taken the time to set the record straight. i looked at this -- i'm not going to say that the s.e.a.l.s are angry about it, they don't care, but i'm an ex-s.e.a.l. and it made me angry. >> you're saying because the narrative made the s.e.a.l. team appear sloppy. >> not just sloppy, criminal. and, you know, i didn't want to stand for that. the other thing is, look, history deserves the truth. and the truth will out. you can push back on this as much as you want to, two years from now, facts are going to come out, they always do. i'm not going to have to rewrite this book when the facts come out. >> and just to tie a ribbon on this, your assertion if i understand you correctly is not even that the government narrative was promoted with

malintent of some kind so much as it was a combination of disorganization and negligence. >> exactly. i don't think the president was well-served in this at all. >> i didn't get to ask you about the picture -- i've run out of time. is there a quick explanation as to why you believe that picture of the president and the secretary of state is the helicopter crash and -- >> absolutely. what they were looking at was an overhead view, a triangle with a square in it. there's no -- the myth of the helmet cam -- >> doesn't exist. i will never get into the room as a bureaucrat in washington with the navy s.e.a.l. in a hall with a gun. >> it's not the mortal combat game. >> thank you. chuck, it's a pleasure. >> pleasure, sir. thank you for having me. >> the book "s.e.a.l. target the inside story of the mission to kill osama bin laden." very well presented. thank you, chuck. coming up on "hardball,"

super tuesday results, democrats celebrating big wins in ohio and mississippi. what it says about the power of the sitting president. but first, for those of you who have ever thought, why don't those occupy protesters get a job already? we have a rant for that. do stay with us. new one a day vitacraves plus omega-3 dha is a complete multivitamin for adults. plus an excellent source of omega-3 dha in a great tasting gummy. one a day, gummies for grown-ups. free gold ! we call that hertz gold plus rewards. you earn free days, free weeks and more fast. that's a plus. upgrade your ride. that's a plus. rewards with no blackout dates so you can redeem anytime. and it's easy to redeem your points online. already a gold member ? just select gold plus rewards in your profile and start rewarding yourself now. just go to hertzgoldplusrewards.com to join. hertz gold plus rewards. journey on.

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here's a message for the critics of the occupy movement. >> if you follow the debate over occupy wall street, you know what many people keep telling these protesters, get a job. that's been the refrain of critics from occupy wall street, from the tough-talking republican candidates to the financial traders who literally

dumped mcdonald's applications on protesters last week. now on monday the economists summed up this perspective, depicting these protesters as overeducated spoiled brats. one may well agree with the general stance of ows, the magazine observed, while disapproving of tent cities reeking of trash and the entitlement of liberal arts majors with the realization that student loans are not gifts. oh, those liberal arts majors, don't they know the old saying, major in art history, die on the street? here's the problem with these, these arguments aren't based on any facts. if you look at the data for americans age 25 to 34, unemployment has doubled since 2007. add among college graduates of all ages since 2007 unemployment has tripled. what happened? well, let me tell you, the shift is no from students dropping economics to major in musicology, because they focused on rallies for student debt relief, it's from the recession. now this notion that millions of

people chose to be unemployed is so absurd. i don't think we can just chalk this up to marginalizing the protests, even though they may be an ingredient here. you might remember the fundamental atri bugs error. we explain our own behavior based on the broader constraints and opportunities in our lives. so if your friend gets fired, maybe he was bad at his job. if you get fired, however, there's obviously a recession. and that means that even if the get a job crowd has their facts backwards, it's going to be hard to change their minds unless this recession hits home for them. dylan? >> well, beyond in addition to that i guess i should say, wouldn't taking any of the protests of the occupation movement seriously force the financial industry to acknowledge the ongoing lie that they all live inside of as

professionals that they do something that creates value that's not destroying the west? >> well, yeah, there's the -- >> you'd have to be like my job is one where i'm not destroying the west even though a lot of people i don't know are getting destroyed by what i'm doing. but i don't know them. >> and i think it's true even if you're lower on the ladder. you could be a very low-level employee at some place, you're working hard and don't want to think about the repercussions of your job. you could be cutting down trees as a logger and not want to think about the impact of that. my point here is there's a psychology to this i don't think people want to realize. and it is true in psychology and the studies show that if you actually make people aware of the tendency, that can help against the problem. turn to people and say, are you serious? this is your argument that these people don't want to work? you didn't hear about the recession? you didn't hear about the unemployment? and the big numbers i spotlighted that the recession