mentions operation mend, and their cover is everything we need to be talking about when it comes to how we treat or veterans and utilize the incredible skills. >> i read mike an barone said he had been cover die bates since 1960. he said last night was the worst moment he's seen in any presidential debate. >> that's bad. >> a bad day. we'll see you back here tomorrow. right now it's time for chuck todd. a mess as big as texas. rick perry gets stumped by his own stump speech. his campaign decides it's up to the candidate himself to fix it. is the damage beyond repair? as perry trying to rebound, herman cain digs in deeper, even calls nancy pelosi a princess, and goes -- is that the right move? >> and joe paterno is gone, penn

state makes it officials, firing the 46-year-long head coach, with the university's president, and the reaction of some of the students last night. this is "the daily rundown." i'm chuck todd. going into last night's debate was herman cain and the cloud of charges hanging over him. coming out it's rick perry and the 53 seconds he would like to forget. it's one of the bigger debate stumbles by a candidate who can least afford. what three cabinet agencies, would he eliminate? >> it's three agencies of government when i get there that are gone -- commerce, education, and the -- what's the third one there? let's see.

>> you need five. >> let's see, commerce, education and the -- >> epa? >> epa, there you go. no. >> seriously? is epa the one you were talking about? >> no, sir, no, sir. we were talking about the agencies -- epa needs to be rebuilt, no doubt about it. >> but you can't name the third one? >> the third agency of government, i would do away with education, the -- >> commerce. >> -- commerce and, let's see -- i can't. the third one i can't. sorry. oops. about 20 minutes later, perry finally recalled the third agency. simplgts by the way, that was the department of energy i was reaching for a while ago. >> well, the perry campaign quickly went into damage control mode.

perry tried to clean up his gaffe with a surprise post-debate appearance. >> i'm glad i have my boots on tonight, because i sure stepped in it out there. i stepped in it, yeah, it was embarrassing, of course. i may have forgotten energy, but i haven't forgotten my conservative principles. >> he attempted to limit the fallout today. head blanketed the morning shows, trying to put a positive spin, and even rolled out a new talking point tied to last night's brain freeze. >> i don't mind saying clearly that i stepped in it last night, but i think i'm kind of like most americans, and that there are so many agencies of government out there we'd like to forget. if they go to rickperry.org, they can participate as well, and pick which agencies, they can go to my website today. >> rickperry.org. what federal agency would you

most like to forget? >> well, that what part of the federal government would you like to forget about most vote hit reporter inboxes in a release at around 2:40 eastern time, roughly five hours after the big moment itself and appears now on his website. obviously he has had the second-most -- this is now the most famous debate stumble of this campaign of before that he had the most famous debate stumble of this campaign, when he had the ability to hit romney in an earlier debate form. but let's remember, the debates in this campaign have turned into what iowa used $ the centen

largely sidestepped the question, with the help of a very supportive crowd. >> here we're focusing on character and judgment. you've been a ceo. >> yes. >> why should the american people hire a president if they feel there are casualty issues? >> the american people deserve better than someone being tried in the court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations. that's what that is about. >> would you keep a ceo -- are you persuaded by what mr. cain has said? would you keep him off if you were his company? [ booing ] >> look, herman cain is the person to respond to these

questions, he just did. the people in this room and across the country can make their own assessment. you know, before the perry stumble became the headline of this debate, and even all of the news surrounding herman cain going into this debate, there was a lot of chatter about what kind of engagement would the candidates have? t clear they made the decision not to engage. maybe it was because they thought they couldn't get through the cain story. maybe they realized that they thought supporters would be unforgiving, and maybe they simply realized there's a few more debates, the joe paterno story is a big news, and anything they tried to do last night would be hard to break through, though they found out, you can break through. mitt romney standpoint forward with a solid performance, or did all the others step back.

john harwood and dan bowles. i want to get into the substance. john, you tried to save him? >> i did, and i sympathized -- >> not in a -- you were trying to -- >> trying to give him the opportunity -- i wasn't sure whether, when he referred to the epa after another candidate prompted him, whether he had come up with a third one, and ask him and have him -- it was a remarkable moment that i sympathize with. all of us have brain freezes, though i've never seen dan do it, and you can start an answer and make three points, you make the first two and you say, where was i going with that? it's unfortunate for a candidate running for national office, especially one that came into the debate with people concerned he wasn't able to handle himself on a stage against barack obama,

for example. >> dan, is it fair to use this process as part of the test for whether somebody is ready to be president? >> sure, debates are part of the process. they're not the only measure. >> are they part of the process of being president? >> that's what the perry folks are trying to beat on. you don't have to do this once you are president. >> i think there's a different question involved. are people who want to be president capable of standing up, thinking on their feet, making quick decisions, understanding that at the time moment something happens, they have to figure out how to respond. debates are not a perfect measure, but they are a measure and some proxy of elements of how you pleasure somebody. >> how damages to perry? >> very, very damaging. we've not seen anything quite like this. for this is really tough. >> john, i want to get into

substance. this was a fairly deep debate. i'm not saying that because i'm promoting what we do here at msnbc, cnbc, nbc -- >> we'll take the flattery. >> i want to play a couple clips. it came up almost without too much prompting by you and maria. here's a couple clips. >> let me say i want to be the president of the 99%. i also want to be the president of the 1%. >> i have yet to hear a sing the reporter ask a single occupy wall street a single rational question about the economy that would late them to say, for example, who's going to pay for the park you're occupying if there are no businesses making a profit? >> john harwood, two sort of conflicting things, rick an storm, ron paul, jon huntsman, trying to channel some inner populism, newt gingrich thumbing his nose at it. >> he was. theres a reasonable to channel

populism. three fourth of the american people said they felt the economic system in the country was tacked toward the interests in the wealthy. occupy wall street may be a small movement reflecting a narrow slice that many republicans like to criticize, but the underlying sent is very widely shared, if not in the primary, but in the general election, republicans will have to deal with that sentiment. >> dan, our friend newt gingrich seems to have one trick up his sleeve, and that is attacking the moderators and the media. >> what is amazing to me is the ability of much of our academy world, much of the news media and most on wall street to have a clue about history. it's sad that the media doesn't report accurately how the economy works. >> i'd like to know what the -- i'm sorry, but what is the media reporting inaccurately about the economy?

>> what? >> what is the media reporting inaccurately about the economy? >> i love humor disguised as a question. that's terrific. >> it's interesting there were two moments where maria said, okay, i'll take your challenge. tell me something that's inaccurate. he said i can't do this in 30 seconds. she said, take as much time as you said. most of us were saying no, no, he might filibuster for an hour, but he didn't take advantage. >> it it's curious why he continue toss do these. he's rising in the polls, clearly weakness all around him. herman cain has sexual allegations against him. rick perry is obviously in deep trouble. he could continue to rise. instead of being a cheerful person about some of these issues, as he displays the intelligence and knowledge he has, he's chofb to attack

moderators while it can draw applause in some certain moments, it's not a winning strategy in the long run. >> what i can conclude is he doesn't believe he's going to be elected, he's got another agenda to try to restore his image within the republican party. >> can i add one thing? why does that help restore his image to look like he's beating up on the press? i don't think that is that helpful. >> and very quickly, the biggest story yesterday on cnbc was europe and italy. fittingly, it was the lead question. john harwood, i want to show you the example of the ducking of the issue. >> here as a montage. >> to be clear, to all loy -- >> focus on the domestic economy or we will fail. >> there will be an effort to try to draw us in and talk about how we need to help italy and europe. europe is able to help europe.

>> you wouldn't just let it fail, go away and take our banking system with it. >> no, no, you have to let it liquidate. >> john, was it candidates on the stage that didn't want to have to tell the republican base they might be for a bailout our was it candidates that didn't understand the depth of the problem? >> i think it's candidates on the stage realizing the depth of the investment that would have to be made if we were going to get involved. in fairness to them, the obama administration has taken a similar assistants. whatever they are doing behind the scenes, the message we have heard consistently, this is a european problem, and europe has the capacity financially to solved it themselves. there is so little appetite within this can this for further bailouts of anybody within the united states that i think they're reflecting that. >> john, dan, i have to leave it there. there's one moment, of course, that's sticking out. thank you both.

i'm going to turn to the other giant story of the day. joe paterno, the winningest coach in the history of college football is out. the board of trustees at penn state announced last night that paterno wouldn't be able to wait to the end of the season to retire, he and the university president would be fired effect tiff immediately. paterno addressed a throng of students and supporters outside his home last night. >> hey, look, good a good night's sleep. study, all right? we still have got things to do. all right. i'm out of it maybe now, a phone call put me out of it. we'll go from here. thank you. good night, everybody. thanks for couple. one thing -- thanks and pray for those victims. >> nbc's ron mott is in state college, pennsylvania, with the latest. that was such an uncomfortable moment to watch. i saw one person compare it to sort of nixon leaving the white

house, in that he's on one hand talking to those students. on the other hand chanting "we are penn state" in a moment where the rest of the country is going, how did you not resign yourself? >> exactly, chuck. it was joe paterno's last day as head coach, a day full of drama and some bizarre elements. the students practically rioted in some instances here last night after this decision was made. a news truck was overturned, a car windshield broken out, police had to use pepper spray. it was a bizarre end to a very storied career for head coach here. what makes this unique and striking, not only did he we the downfall of a revered football coach, we saw the public downfall of a well respected university president, spending 16 years as president of penn state. that's almost unheard of these days. joe paternalo more than 50 years as a coach, 46 years as head

coach here. chuck, it was a bizarre day with those students surrounding joe paterno and his wife at their house, and joe paterno ending that exchange by saying "we are penn state." >> ron mott, not everybody was let go, the original if assistant coach, who reported the incident of jerry sandusky to paterno, not authorities, does he still have a job this morning? >> reporter: he does indeed. in fact that was one first questions of the vice chair when they made the announcement last night. what happens to mike mccrierie, he has been here for some time, and his testimony to the grand jury is one of the most explosive elements in that 23-page presentment, a lot of folks wondering why does he still have a job here. the board of trustees says his

employment status will remain unchanged for the time being, but a lot of folks will be wondering whether he has to go as well, check. >> ron mott as state college, this is "the daily rundown." we'll be back with much, much more.

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i was here in the 1950s and 1960s when detroit and michigan was the pride of it is nation. i've seen this industry and this state go through tough times. my view with regard to the bailout is whether it was by president bush or president obama, it was the wrong way to go. >> well, mitt romney says private bankruptcy, not government intervention, was the best way to save -- the motor city still has plenty of challenges ahead, the mayor of detroit, dave binge, joins me

now. mr. mayor, nice to talk with you. thanks for coming on. >> good morning and thank you. >> i am curious, you heard what governor romney said about the policy preference he would have preferred while i know sudden weren't involved in the intricate decisions, do you think there was a private entity that was available to lend the auto makers $40 billion at a moment in march of 2009 when the world credit markets were in turmoil? >> absolutely not. i think bush and our president today did the right thing. i've been in detroit now for about 45 years. i was a supplier in the automotive industry. there's no doubt in my mind if the government didn't step in to save those two companies, there's no way they would have

survived. we would have lost over 14 or 15 million jobs across this sun. that was -- you just couldn't let that happen. >> mr. mayor, you have an interesting challenge that you have taken on, and you've talked about some drastic things you have to do with the city, namely doing something we haven't seen cities do in a long time, which is shall rimpg its actual size. population has been shrinking, but the geographic space of detroit hasn't shrunk. i understand why you want to do it, saving money on road maintenance, things like that. how do you actually do it? >> actually as i had an opportunity to travel over europe, see certain stings, and going through some of the same things we're going through, it was obvious to me that getting density in the city was key. we have 139 square miles where at one time we were almost 2

million people. we are just north of 700,000 people now, and people are still spread across 139 square miles. we've got to get -- i've got to convince people that we can't continue to provide them with services as we did years ago trying to convince people is a challenge, but it's one that has to be done. but an aging population and less educated population, one statistic that's jumped out at me, only 11% of detroiters have a college degree. in seattle it's 63%. how do you change this? is there incentives that you do in detroit area high schools? what do you do to change this? >> well, because the public school system does not report

directly to the mayor, but without an educated population, there's no way our city will not come back. they so we are dealing with that problem. we now have a young person that's in that position taking over, in charge of the dps, detroit public school system, that i think is doing the right thing. we work together and i'm very dependent on him, as he is on me, to make the hard decision, to make sure that education for our young people is available, and get them in the work force here in the city of detroit. >> finally on your budget, i know like many mayors and governors around the country, you're struggling to meet with some of the commitments you have made to retire years, to workers, things like that, you're in the middle of negotiations. are you going to -- are you going to be able to solve this in negotiations with city

workers when it comes to pensions, or will you have to ask the state or the federal government for some help? >> the reality that we are dealing with is that we've got major financial issues right now. i can't put all of the blame on the worseforce, on labor. there were administrations before mine that didn't make the hard decisions, and so they have continued to spend more than they are taking in. that has to stop. it's going to stop in this administration. so i've gone back to the unions to talk to them about what we need to do. we must have pension reform. we must have work rule changes, and those are the things that i'm really impressing upon the unions right now. we all are going to continue to suffer for some time yet. if we want to take control of our city, all of us will have to participate in the pain. that's going to happen over the next two, three years. >> detroit mayor dave binge, the

whole country seems to be rooting for detroit in a way, and that must be heartening to you. >> it is, and i am so pleased to be here at this point in time. not an easy job, but i think it's a point in history here in the city of detroit, where we make the hard choices to bring the city back hopefully for greatness that it knew for years and years. >> mr. mayor, thanks for coming on. >> thank you so very much. the republican candidates say europe should fix its own debt problems. how will the deepening problems here in italy affect us here at home? plus an american university rocked by a sex abuse scandal. how could this happen in a place called happy valley? first today's trivia second, the last secretary of housing and urban development without a college degree. tweet me. the first correct answer will get a follow on thursday from us. the answer is coming up.

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markets are trying to bounce back from a brutal day on wednesday. andrew sorkin joins us notice. what's going on in italy and how will the market react? >> so far so good, new prime minister in greece giving some people some hope, also a sense of hope, that a bill may end up lowering some of the borrowing costs for italy. that's affecting the ten-year bond. that had breached that, we had cisco coming out with positive earnings, and then this morning jobless claims actually coming down by 10,000, to their seven-month low. that's a good sign on a relative basis to an otherwise bad employment picture, but that's where it's at. it looks like we have some green arrows, and i have one other

green arrow, chuck. tomorrow morning, becky quick returning to "squawk box" and i hope returning to the rundown. >> i heard -- this is not to say we're booting you out the door. >> i hope to see each other soon and hopefully with some frequency, but you'll get becky back. >> that's right, becky quick, reappearance, happens tomorrow. folks should tune in. we'll be back in 30 seconds.

welcome back to "the daily rundown." senator dib durbin says there's been a break through in the debt talks after the republicans embraced higher taxes. still the two sides are far apart on the amount of new so-called revenue. the democrats are pushing for a trillion in tax revenues over ten years. the republican number is close tore $300 billion. air force officials tell "the washington post" that for years the remains of fallen troops were cremated and dumped in a virginia landfill. troops' families were not told of this process, which was stopped three years ago. the disclosure is part of a major investigation into the alleged mishandling of remains at dover air force base. between that and what happened a year ago at arlington cemetery, not, not good for the military these days on that front. penn state's new interim football coach will speak to the press for the first time later this morning.

coming less than a day after the firing of the legendary football coach joe paterno, a decision met with sadness and anger as thousands of students demonstrated in and around campus, even overturning a local news van. mike, chuck, good morning. >> good morning. a little disturbing watching the penn state community's reaction, while frankly i think the rest of us were sitting there dumbfounded they're reacting this way about the football coach and weren't overturning news fans when they found out what jerry sandusky had been doing. >> i think we have to realize that's a very small percentage of the penn state population. that's a very big school. on saturday there will be 100,000 people there, and i think most people felt this had to happen. i know a couple students, and if they gave it thought and old enough to be parents, they would

have a different perspective. penn state had no choice. when i heard this story and when i had a chance to see the grand jury information on sunday, i knew he was gone. and frankly, i really thought they waited too long to do it. i thought they dragged this on for days and days. i thought they would be gone two days before he was. he did everything he could to fight it. he tried to really with his announcements create a preemptive strike and give them an alternative. he was trying to cling to his job, which was kind of sad to watch, but penn state had absolutely no choice, chuck. they had to do this. in a career that was almost perfection, he made an incredibly bad judgment. i think probably at early as 1998, because there's no way in my mind, knowing his power, knowing his prestige and his position on that campus, which was stronger than anybody has on

any campus in the united states, that they didn't know in 1998 what was going on. i believe he did, and i think he looked the other way. i think he had really a disinterest toward it and probably said, get it out of my face, and that is something that will be -- something he will live with for the rest of his life. it was a terrible decision on his part. >> now, there's something funny about the sandusky exit in 1998 and 1999 when you look at hindsight about the first allegation, but i want to bring you on about the bigger issue here that i think a lot of us who are college sports fanatics, but also concerned about what's going on here, that is this issue at universities where the sports programs, frank ly can trump the universities in power, and in this case joe paterno ran that university. the football program clearly ran that university, not the other way around. we know in -- even in circumstances when it has to do with recruiting violations,

whether it was the incident at ohio state, where i love, the university of miami, where the university presidents don't have control of these programs, because they are the cash cow. >> let's be honest here. presidents at universities are fund-raisers. that's all they are. they are nothing else. that's their power base. they might be educators, but they are in essence fund-raisers. when you have schools where you have very powerful coaches who have been entrenched for decades, you have a situation where the coach without any question has much more power than the president has. if it's something he uses well, it's a good thing. if he uses it poor lid, it's a bad thing. what you have at those schools is you have alumnae sitting on board of trustees, wlofr it may be, every school has that power guy or two. >> phil knight at oregon.

>> right. they run that school tanned they want big@lowic programs. that's the way it is, and they want them at any cost. when that stops, they will get this under control, because it always comes back, like it does in every walk of life, to money. money creates the power and the power is in the people who say i want to win, i want this, i want that, and they have let mess programs run independent of the university, and we are seeing a groundswell that is trying to create a system where that doesn't exist. you cannot put the genie back in the bottle. all the stuff i hear is laughable, about playing the players -- can't happen. no one wants these players unionized and nothing more than hired hands. this is a system that is out of control, and it cannot be put back in the bottle. it is too big now, and they can't control it. it has run amok. i don't think there's nids way to get it back to where people want it to be like it was in the 1940s or '50s.

it's not going to happen. >> i guess who should step in? the ncaa? to me the penn state case is all about this, and in this football program was allowed to cover up a sexual predator. >> see, the problem here is, this is a man -- and this is the irony of this story. here is a man who ran the cleanest program in the united states. these players couldn't do anything. they were never allowed to break rules. they had to go to class. this was the most pristine program in the country. because he did not think this was a big deal, or he did not want this to destroy the penn state brand, which is probably the decision he made at the time, we'll control this, we'll keep it in-house, we're penn state, we'll control it, he made a terrible decision, a decision that almost borders on criminal,

considering what sandusky was, which was a serial predator. that's what he was. he was someone who was completely out of control, and they looked the other way. i think they looked the other way probably three, four times. i mean, this is that bad. this is the worst thing i have ever seen. if you think in the bigger scale that you are going to get this under control, you can't until people at the top, above the president, want to put it back in perspective inside university life. until that happens, it will never change. >> right. mike francesca, you always tell it like it is. thanks. >> thank you. franco harris is an hon regard board member of sandusky's charity, and he played under paterno in college. back to politics. eight hopefuls battled it out last night. who is in the best position to win the primary? and can whoever wins the

nomination become the first here to win in the general election? robert is the chairman of the michigan republican party, and he joins me now. mr. chairman, first of all, congratulations on a big event. i'm sure this is what you were hoping, to get michigan in the spotlight. let me ask you this, the michigan primary, it's been a bit unique in the past. to win it actually, you've had to appeal the democrats and independents in a way other primaries don't work that way? >> well, i think irchd is where we lean toward. we have probably a third of our electorate vote independent, democrat and republican historically, but the reality is, and i think it's held true in the past, obama, the democrat, needs to win michigan, and so does the republican, whoever the candidate is. at the end of the day they're going to fight hard. >> will they be here, though?

with mitt romney, he's sort of a favorite son of sorts. are you on the one hand concerned in an odd way that he will scare off others, and the whole hope to afracture money, attention, sort of dissipates? >> not at all. herman cain has been here a couple times all right. they're all staying on today doing political events and fund-raisers. and they'll work hard to earn michigan. romney has great name recognition. his family has roots here. his brother lives here. there's a long lynnage of romneys, but romney needs to defend why he should be the leader of our country, to michigan people, too. that's his job. >> how important is the issue of what the government role was in saving the auto industry and how much of a debate point do you expect it to be leading up to the february 28th primary. >> i think the issue for this

primary, like this country, is jobs and the economy. the think illustrate automobile industry is succeeding today because of the product they're putting out, worldly competitive. detroit is playing a big role there. you look at the designs, you see what's coming out, you see the future. there's a big auto show every year. i've confidence the voters are saying, how do we keep droimt competitive. and what happened in the past is the past. >> you saw that, but a big governing decision as far as the state of michigan was concern. >> the bailout was one option. we don't happen to agree it was the best option is what you're hearing from the republican candidates. >> are you in that camp? >> my views are it was unnecessary. >> 40 billion in the capital markets available? >> if not available, through loan guarantees, not through direct taxpayer cash out the

door, yes. >> then why didn't gm and chrysler do that? >> because they'll go to the government, because obama started obviously before him, but decided that's the direction we're going. unfortunately what it did is that is gave the government a preferred position in the outcome of the bankruptcy. that's not appropriate. the bankruptcy court, the creditors committees, they should have an equal say at the table, and that's not the appropriate role for government. i stand on that issue. i don't believe that -- there was options, there was alternatives, and we should allowed it in the capital markets. robbed, again, thanks for the debate, thanks for hosting us. loved be in auburn hills -- we literally can dance on the line here. thanks for joining me this morning. up next the political panel joins me here, but soup of the day at the white house today is

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rick perry insists his campaign schedule will not change. he still plans to debate in south carolina saturday night, but a campaign never likes to face questions like this one. >> have you thought about ending your campaign? are you staying in this race, sir? >> you know what today is, the 236th birthday of the united states marine corps. if there was a day to stay in a fight, this is it. so you bet i'm going to continue on. >> rick perry took my shameless plug. there you go. amy gardner is a national political reporter for "the washington post," and steve -- a communications directors for the indiana republican party and may have been the communication director for the mitch daniels for president campaign, which i'm sure some are wondering about. when it comes to rick perry,

amy, what was interesting after the debate, all the candidates were asked about it. here is michele bachmann's response to it. >> it was a tough moment. i think all of us recognize that is something none of us want to go through, it was very difficult, and we all felt very bad for him. >> amy, any part of this where you feel like maybe we're pouncing because the perception was he was already a bad debater. >> yes and no. certainly everybody in the room felt empathy, it was a horrible moment for everybody, but there's still the larger story line here, which is that he -- his campaign was already in a position of needing to prove that he could do this, and they proved the opposite last night. >> pete, you're in touch with republican donors, activists, how important have these debates been to them, how influential could a moment like this be?

>> absolutely important. folks are watching these. back home in indiana, everybody talks about the debates afterwards. i'm seeing a split. there are those that say, no big deal. i say half jokingly, i wouldn't remember my own name if it didn't rhyme. you know, there's empty think for that moment, but it's part of the rick perry narrative. at that 9:15 mark, an hour and 15 minutes into every debate, he implodes. >> you're right it is at the same moment in time when he does this. the other elephant in the room wasn't intended to be this rick perry moment, but was going to be herman cain. what was fascinating for me is the decision by other candidates not to touch him. >> not to touch cain? >> yes. >> and cain was ready. he had an answer for it, and he quickly moved back to what he wanted to talk about, which is what made his campaign work so far, his 9-9-9 plan, his

outside/businessman status, hits charisma, and he did that. and of course this setting was focused on financial issues. >> what struck me, after the debate rick santorum goes on fox and says this of and says this of cain, i'm hopeful he can do what's necessary in laying out the information to make sure that you know people know his side of the story completely. and you know some of those guys sitting in the single digits that want cain's support are desperate to see this thing, you know, either hit him enough where his support's available. >> right. they want it to drag out as long as possible. but i was in the debate venue last night, and that crowd wanted nothing to do with it. >> nothing. >> the boos were just amazing to hear. it was even louder than you heard on tv. >> the defiancy of his supporters right now, too. he is raising decent chunks of money. >> and what you hear when you call up his supporters in important states like florida and south carolina is, you know, he's actually handling this

well. this is good for him. this underscores his outsider status, his ability to bring something different to washington. this is the guy i love and i still love him. >> amy pietz, stick around. trivia time, who was the last secretary of housing and urban development without a college degree? we're in the state of michigan. that should have been one of your hints. the answer, george romney, mitt's father, was an auto executive, a three-term governor, a republican presidential candidate and a member of president nixon's cabinet. never graduated from college. nothing wrong with that. we'll be right back. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] if you think tylenol

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let's bring back the panel. amy gardner and pete seet. i want to put up the primary matchups here in these republican primaries. florida, ohio, pennsylvania. pete, herman cain, these were

all conducted after the story first came out. herman cain, ahead by six points in florida, ahead by five points in ohio. tied with romney in pennsylvania. there is a chunk of the republican party that is defiantly backing him, one. and two, that is wanting to not be with the establishment. >> well, herman cain, i think, says it best, and supporters don't defect. and i think that's proving to be true. and we're seeing that a lot of folks, he built a lot of good will throughout this primary process so far. and they find it difficult to believe the accusations. >> and amy, we were just discussing off air, you know, are we covering cain too two-dimensionally when it comes to his campaign, meaning we just assume he's the latest guy to pop, but there's a reason why maybe he's not deflating, he did more work than we realize? >> i think that's right. and riffing off of what pete said, i think he built a tremendous amount of good will with the people who connected with his personality, message

and charm and the substance of what he's doing which is coming in from the outside. the 9-9-9 plan's nugget of goodness for his supporters is that it throws out the existing tax plan. that's a mehtaphor for what his campaign is. >> two of my closest friends, brian and becky mcgee are chr christening their 2-year-old daughter. >> come to "washington post" all day for news. >> after msnbc.com. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." tomorrow on the show, top white house adviser stephanie cutter will join me on her last day live in studio as a white house adviser. she's packing her bags to chicago to join the president's re-election campaign. coming up next, "chris jansing & company." then at 1:00, "andrea mitchell reports." i'm going to san diego, "uss carl vinson." now that's a shameless plug.

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