and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. tomorrow night catch me on "real time with bill maher" on hbo. i'll be talking about my new book, "jack kennedy: elusive hero." "the ed show" with ed schultz starts right now. good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show." tonight live from washington, d.c. nbc news is reporting joe paterno has hired a criminal defense attorney. agonizing questions surround the penn state ordeal. president spanier and the former head coach, they are out. i don't think penn state has done enough. rick perry on a media tour trying to salvage his intelligence. i definitely don't think that he's done enough. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> a phone call put me out of it. but we'll go from here. >> the penn state sexual abuse scandal continues to grow. >> if there are more victims out there or witnesses out there,

please come forward. >> former penn state player and nfl hall of famer franco harris is defending his old coach. >> i'm defending joe paterno, not jerry sandusky. >> reporter: tonight franco harris joins me exclusively. >> i would -- i would do away with the education, the -- commerce. and let's see. i can't. the third one i can't. sorry. oops. >> the perry campaign is on life support, and the candidate is flooding the airwaves. >> i stepped in it last night. >> i stepped in it. >> i stepped in it last night. that's for sure. >> i'll ask political analyst jim moore if it's time to say adios to the perry campaign. >> there are already mechanisms in place -- you know what? this pisses me off. >> the victim of joe walsh's rude outburst is a letter carrier for the postal service. >> i'm tired of hearing that crap. >> tonight she gets her chance to respond. >> good to have you with us

tonight, folks. thanks for watching. joe paterno is no longer the head football coach at penn state. following more information about the child sexual abuse scandal involving his former assistant coach, jerry sandusky. but with many aspects of the scandal still unresolved, the game will go on this saturday. last night the board of trustees fired paterno and university president graham spanier, effective immediately. today paterno has hired a criminal defense attorney. the story continues. paterno and his wife greeted supporters outside his home moments after he received a phone call informing him of his termination last night. angry penn state students took to the streets of state college, pennsylvania. police reported acts of violence and assaults on journalists and law enforcement officers. "the new york times" quotes one student, paul howard, as saying, "of course we're going to riot. what do you expect when they tell us at 10:00 that they fired our football coach?" a mob of students overturned a television news van.

the video, this video, was captured on a camera phone. [ cheers ] not all of joe paterno's supporters resorted to violence. not all of joe paterno's supporters resorted to violence. many current and former penn state graduates said the firing was a rush to judgment. franco harris, nfl hall of famer and former player under joe paterno, was outspoken with his disapproval.

>> there's a lot of outrage at penn state because of the firing of joe paterno. i'm upset at the penn state board for the firing of joe paterno. >> we will talk with mr. harris in just a few moments. there were other high-profile statements of support for joe paterno today. the nike corporation said it has no plans to change the name of the joe paterno center. a childcare facility at its oregon headquarters. but pennsylvania senators pat toomey and pat casey pulled their support for the nomination of the football coach to receive the presidential medal of freedom. attention is now being turned to assistant football coach mike mcquerrey. mcquerrey has kept his job despite allegation that's he witnessed a sexual assault by jerry sandusky on an 11-year-old boy in 2002 and did not intervene or report it to police. the new interim penn state head football coach, tom bradley,

said today that mcqueary will remain part of the coaching staff at this saturday's game. but today they said mcqueary will be kept off the sideline for his own safety. pennsylvania governor tom corbett spoke about the firings today during a news conference. >> we must keep in mind that when it comes to the safety of children there can be no margin for error, no hesitation to act. >> when he was asked by a reporter if he felt paterno and the president spanier hesitated to act, he said yes. >> i was disappointed in their actions. i support the board's decision. their actions caused me to not have confidence in their ability to continue to lead. >> the penn state board was in agreement with the governor, which is why they fired both men last night.

come out and be honest. they need to say it's more important for them to make money than to rectify terrible acts of wrongdoing. the board needs to get back together in another meeting and make the next call. the football seasons should be over at penn state. get your cell phones out. i want to know what you think. tonight's question, should penn state football cancel the rest of its season and decline any bid to a bowl game? text a for yes. text b for no to 622639.

you can go to our blog and make a comment at ed.msnbc.com. we'll bring you the results later on in the show. lots of opinions and lots of hard feelings surrounding all of this and a tremendous amount of sadness. joining me on the phone is nfl hall of famer franco harris and former player for joe paterno. he is now the chairman of the pittsburgh promise, an education charity. mr. harris, good to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. and i certainly understand your loyalty to coach paterno. >> nice to be on -- nice to be on your show. i'm a big fan. >> thank you, sir. do you think that joe paterno should still be the head football coach of penn state? and tell us why you think that. >> not a question. i think the firing was overreaction by the board. i'm very disappointed in the board. and when joe paterno needed to have someone support him and have his back, they let him

down. and when they did ask the board yesterday the reason for the firing, there was really no definite answer. and the only definite answer was for the interest of the university. what is the interest of the university? and that couldn't be answered. and i'm very disappointed in the board. i think that joe should still be the coach of penn state. and i also want to say the way that they fired him, of just having someone hand him a letter to call somebody and not doing things face to face. i think that the board just -- like all of their actions yesterday were very, very disappointing to me. there's no doubt that -- and everybody knows what joe has meant to penn state in his 46 years as head coach.

i don't need to go over that. and there's no doubt that he's an icon and people love to knock down an icon. and right now there seems to be a frenzy among people that want to do that. and let me tell you the reason why i feel that he shouldn't have been fired. first of all, nothing has been proved. and everybody gets -- you know, says, well, he didn't do enough, he should have done more. well, when you look at what happened -- and i really try to go through the scenario myself. that in 1998 there was allegations against jerry and jerry sandusky was a football coach under joe paterno. when that happened in 1998 during the football program, those allegations went all the way to the d.a. and to the local police. in 2002 jerry sandusky was no

longer with the football program and no longer under penn state. when allegations happened again, joe paterno, took it to his -- now, this time it was not a football program. this time it was a university problem. joe took it to tim curley and schultz. >> so you think he did enough. i get that. and -- >> and tim curley and schultz did not do their job. >> yeah. >> and people are saying because they didn't do their job joe should have baby-sated them and done the job for them. >> okay. >> now, joe mentioned that he feels he could have done more, but i feel he says that because joe's not one to really knock people. the reason why he could have done more is -- >> okay. >> -- he feels bad they didn't do their job. >> mr. harris, i've got to point out to you that joe paterno was told by his former quarterback that he had witnessed this

sexual act in the shower at the facility at penn state. mr. paterno never went to law enforcement. that is what is in question tonight. and one other thing. i'd like to ask you, obviously mcqueary, who played quarterback for paterno, quarterbacks and coaches certainly have a special friendship. and paterno in the grand jury report stated that mcqueary went to his house the next day and said that he was very upset. why didn't paterno -- and let me ask you. is it in joe paterno's personality to go confront sandusky with this information? what do you think of that? >> this was a university problem. >> okay. >> and joe respected tim curley and schultz. >> okay. >> he went to them thinking that they would do their job. and they didn't do their job. and everybody's now blaming joe.

and that's what i don't understand. >> franco harris, great to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. let's turn now to sports commentator and writer john feinstein. author of the upcoming book "one on one." i find it hard to believe that a former player would go to joe paterno and say coach, this is what i saw, number one, he just passed it on to the a.d. and another administrator and didn't report it to the police, didn't understand the severity of it. as a journalist what's the next move? >> well, i think you're 100% right that when mike mcqueary went to joe paterno's house that day, that joe paterno should have made two phone calls. one should have been to graham spanier, the president, saying we've got a big problem. and the second should have been to the police. now, having said that, even if you want to say it was okay to call tim curley, the athletic director, and put it in his hands, the fact is he never followed up. he never went back and said tim, what's going on? why haven't i heard from the police? why hasn't mike heard from the police? you can't go halfway on something like this. and i know joe paterno has said,

well, mike mcqueary didn't lay out the details to me the way he laid them out to the grand jury. ed, how much detail do you need? he saw a 10-year-old boy naked in a shower with a grown man. you don't need any more detail than that. >> let's talk about this incident that took place. of victim number 6. the mother of victim number 6 had a conversation with jerry sandusky, two conversations, in may of 1998. on may 13th and may 19th. detectives were listening. jerry sandusky admitted to showering with the boys. the follow-up by one of the detectives at state college, pennsylvania, university police, was done on june 1st of '98, just a few weeks later. and he was told, jerry, don't shower with the kids anymore. and he says, okay, i won't do it. is this the extent of their investigation? so when people say that he was exonerated or investigated, this was the extent of it. >> right. >> and just the appearance is that the university, we just can't take down joe paterno's football program.

your thoughts. >> well, that's the problem not just at penn state but at so many schools, where football is bigger than school. joe paterno is penn state. for a lot of very positive reasons. not only because he won more games than any division one coach but also because his players did graduate and he did do right by them and he did care about them. but he didn't care enough about these children who were victimized by his former coach, who was also a close friend of his. >> the grand jury report is graphic and it's gut-wrenching. and another part of the grand jury report also says that janitors were afraid to come forward and say anything for fear of losing their job. >> right. >> there seems to be an atmosphere around penn state, hey, not us, can't happen here. >> well, absolute power can corrupt absolutely. as we know. it's a cliche for a reason. and that -- nobody at penn state could take on joe paterno. in 2004 the president of the school went to his house to

suggest he retire, and joe paterno threw him out of the house. so who's in charge? we know who was in charge. and i'm a big fan of joe paterno's, by the way. >> who isn't? >> for what he did. >> impeccable program. can't beat it. >> the signature program of what was right about college football when so much has been wrong. to me he and dean smith, the north carolina basketball coach, are the two iconic figures of the last 50 years in college athletics for the right reasons. and yet this is going to be in the first sentence of his legacy forever. it has to be. >> john, as a sports journalist your curiosity. where's the next story? where does it take you? >> well, i think there are two separate stories here. there's the crime that was committed against these young men -- or these boys who are now in most cases young men. and that has to play out in the courts. but i'd like to see -- you suggested penn state maybe canceling their games. >> i think they've got to do something here. >> here's what i think they should do. play the games but take 50% of the money that you make from these games. excuse me.

and from the bowl game. and turn them over to some group that works with kids who've been abused sexually. >> you see, the university -- >> excuse me. >> the university can still gain here. they could win the next three games. they could go to a bowl and make a pile of money and win the bowl game. what about the university? where's the hurt there? i mean, people get fired all the time in our society. >> right. >> the university i think has to make a big statement here -- >> and i think that would be a positive way to do it. i wish -- a coach suggested to me today that what joe paterno should have said yesterday is he should have resigned on his own. because if he had and not made the board fire him there wouldn't have been any rioting last night. and said i'm giving $1 million to work toward fighting against this kind of abuse and i'm going to ask every penn state alum to give $1. >> john feinstein, great you have to with us tonight. thanks for your take. remember to answer the question there at the bottom of your screen and share your thoughts on twitter @edshow. we want to know what you think. legal ramifications for penn state and its officials keep piling up. we'll talk to a former district attorney, matthew mangino.

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coming up next, the legal problems facing all involved, especially former football coach joe paterno and penn state. on the media tour rick perry is trying to prove he's not the dullest knife in the drawer. but how long can he hang on? and congressman joe walsh lost his cool on this american worker. tonight, she tells her side of the story right here on "the ed show." stay with us.

welcome back to "the ed show." there are other aspects of the penn state sexual abuse scandal not getting much attention. according to the grand jury report, back in march 2002 graduate assistant mike mcqueary saw jerry sandusky in the shower of the main football building sodomizing a boy he estimated to be 10 years old. this is the main incident we've been hearing about. but according to mcqueary's own account he saw the act in progress and apparently did nothing to stop it. he did not intervene, did not shout. he did not go directly to police. the next day mcqueary told joe paterno. the next day paterno met with school officials curley and schultz. later the same month penn state president graham spanier approved of the minor action taken against jerry sandusky. but there is no evidence any of these people tried to identify the 10-year-old boy.

there was apparently no attempt to contact him, get his side of the story, see if he needed medical attention. the graduate assistant, mike mcqueary-s now an assistant football coach at penn state who was hired in 2003. joining me now is former district attorney of lawrence county, pennsylvania, matthew mangino. mr. mangino, good to have you with us tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> when the now assistant football coach mcqueary witnessed this, he was 28 years old at the time. and in cases of rape or activity such as this, is it legally acceptable to witness and not report it directly to police? >> well, there's really no legal obligation for just the average citizen to report a crime that they may have witnessed. in this particular situation because he worked for a university he had an obligation to report it and he followed what his obligation would have been, which would have been to

report it to his immediate supervisor, who was joe paterno. >> so he would be under no legal obligation whatsoever to report that he witnessed something that was clearly against the wall -- against the law? >> his legal obligation under the mandated reporter law in pennsylvania would have been to report that abuse that he observed in the workplace to his immediate supervisor, which is what he did. now, that's his legal responsibility, ed. you know, there's a whole different responsibility in terms of moral obligation. certainly, should he have intervened? should he have called the police? there's a number of things he could have done. maybe most people would have done that. but from purely a legal perspective he did what he was obligated to do under the law. and joe paterno in turn did what he was obligated to do under the law. he report td within 48 hours to his immediate supervisor, the athletic director. again, that was the legal obligation. what's his moral responsibility?

he knows a sexual assault, an adult against a child, occurred in his locker room as the head football coach. should he have taken some other action other than following the mandate of the law? i certainly think that you or i or most people would have done something maybe a little bit different. >> yeah. how serious is the school's civil liability when an alleged rapist got nothing more than having the keys of the facility taken away from him and campus police saying, hey, don't do this anymore, don't shower with the kids, which is what he was told in 1998? what is the school's civil liability in this? >> well, i think that the civil liability's going to be very broad here and there are going to be a number of people who are going to make claims against the university and rightfully so. the university had an obligation to take some action here to protect young people on their campus. they invite young people to their campus all the time.

whether it's sports camps or band camp or academic exercises, there are young people underage on their campus all the time. they need to know what that obligation is to report, and they needed to take action. and it appears that they failed to do so in this case. >> matthew mangino, i appreciate your time tonight. thanks for joining us so much. more on the penn state sexual abuse scandal in a moment. with mike wise and b.j. scheckter. deadbeat congressman joe walsh told a postal worker that he wanted to eliminate her job. melissa rakestraw will explain why the congressman should lose his government job later on in the show. stay with us.

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it's an opportunity for me, you know, to have been touched by so many great people who have volunteered their time and energy and opportunity to see some special young people overcome some challenges in their life and go on to lead a life of excellence. it's grown to that point now where we've really reaped the rewards of a lot of effort. and it's an opportunity to throw out a rope to some kids. and if they grab hold, you know, they can be champions. >> absolutely amazing. that was jerry sandusky in 2007 talking about his charity for kids. he is now charged with 40 criminal counts of sexual abuse of minors. welcome back to "the ed show." let's bring in wjfk radio host mike wise and sportsillustrated.com executive

editor b.j. shekter. good to have you with us tonight. mike, what is so stunning, most journalists have read the grand jury report. what jumps out at you as absolutely unbelievable in the report? >> well, just that clip you played in the last few days on my show and in my "washington post" column. that turned my stomach almost more than anything given that i now know about jerry sandusky. i still think the fact that -- and it bothers me that a lot of people are hiding behind protocol and right channels for joe paterno because the bottom line was joe pa oversaw happy valley like mike krzyzewski oversaw duke or john wooden once oversaw westwood. he didn't have a superior. and if he was told and he didn't report it to police, certainly he had to go down. the fact that -- it's almost like people were in warped program world and they saw penn state and things like senior day more important than stealing

youth from some of these boys. >> b.j., what does that say about our society, that coaches and programs and universities can be so big that people would be intimidated to go to law enforcement? i find it hard to believe that a 28-year-old man would not know that it would be the wrong thing to do to screw a 10-year-old in the shower. i don't know how else you can say it. what do you think? >> it's really sickening when you think about it. and when you read the grand jury report, you can't help but really get a pit in your stomach. you know, i think what we have to realize here is with great power comes great responsibility. and so many people have failed in this instance. we've failed the kids. we failed to protect the people that need protection the most. and joe paterno was in a great position of authority and power. he did so much good over the years for the university. but in this instance he failed. everybody involved with this case failed. from the mike mcqueary, when he

first saw it. from mike mcqueary's father when he didn't have his son go to the police. to joe paterno. to tim curley. to the administrator gary schultz. we -- everybody failed here. and that's why the consequences are so severe. >> gentlemen, my commentary tonight is that i think that penn state's got to do something really big. cancel the rest of the season. forget the bowl opportunity. there's got to be some restitution. and they have to make a statement that just firing a couple of people isn't going to make it right. and then of course having an investigation. your thoughts. >> i think at some point you're right. as more comes out and people understand the magnitude of this. this game they're having saturday is a charade. the idea that they're wearing blue in support of sexual abuse to children is fine and dandy, but it has nothing to do with what happened here. someone said this better than anybody i spoke to. his name was matt packness. former penn state graduate assistant under joe paterno, '87 to '88. said look, i love the guy, he

needs to step down. he needs to step down because once you do this and you're party to this at all, essentially you lose the right to claim triumph over anything in your life and you can't say anymore that you touched lives because they all go away if you let one person touch a children -- a child. >> here's pennsylvania governor tom corbett today talking about the student protesters. >> you have a passion? great. you want to demonstrate? great. you want to speak out? great. violence is a knucklehead. >> b.j., let me go so far as to say that i think if the students had all the facts and were following this story that they wouldn't be out in the streets. what do you think? >> you know, it's really hard to say. i mean, i think it starts at the top. i mean, look at the reaction of joe paterno in this case. he was almost like a martyr. he came out and he addressed the students and you know, what should have joe paterno done in

this situation? he should have went to the middle of town and said, look, something tragic has happened here, i've lost my job, i can't come to terms with it now, go home. but instead he incited a "we are penn state" chant. >> and that's what gets me. he knew. he was told by his former quarterback what the defensive coordinator, sandusky, who he had worked with for years, he knew what he had done in the shower to that kid. and here's joe paterno coming out saying, well, you know, i lost my job. by the handbook i guess i did everything i could do for the university. i'm surprised that he didn't get it. >> i'm still furious -- i'm still furious. i don't know about you, b.j. i'm still more furious about anything that they still don't know the name of this 10-year-old kid, that at no point was the kid given consideration in this. and when an attorney general has to come out nine years later and say, if you're out there, we're looking for you, that's just sick. >> under the guise of a charity

organization that is supposed to help kids. give me a break. b.j., you get the final word. >> well, you know, i think this is a sad commentary of what college sports have become. they've become so big. and the games themselves are so riveting and so great so many times. >> exactly. >> but we're losing what our priorities are. our priorities are education and doing what's right. when the athletic program and a person like joe paterno becomes bigger than anything else in a lot of people's minds, we've really lost it, and i think we need to get it back. >> and gentlemen, that is the point of my commentary tonight. i mean, penn state, board of trustees, you need to step up and show that you're bigger than the game, you're bigger than the coach, that you're going to show some restitution, that there was some real failings within the system that go back a number of years to allow something like this to slip through the cracks. mike wise, b.j.shecter, great to have you with us tonight. thanks so much. rick perry's michigan meltdown.

is he now texas toast? he's on letterman tonight. jim mora weighs in next. and herman cain bragged about not sexually harassing thousands of women? what a guy. here's some piping hot pizza man "psychotalk" coming up. and going to be served. stay with us.

welcome back to "the ed show." texas governor rick perry raised $17 million in the first six weeks of his campaign. a super pac pledged to spend an additional $55 million on perry's behalf. the question now is can all that money buy back this moment? >> it's three agencies of government when i get there that are gone. commerce, education, and the -- what's the third one there? let's see. >> you need five. >> oh, five. okay. commerce, education, and the -- >> epa?

>> epa. there you go. no. >> let's talk -- >> seriously? is epa the one you were talking about? >> no, sir. we were talking about the agencies of government -- the epa needs to be rebuilt. no doubt about that. >> but you can't name the third one? >> the third agency of government i would do away with. the education, the -- >> commerce. >> commerce. and let's see. i can't. the third one i can't. sorry. oops. >> oops is right. the epa needs to be rebuilt? i don't think the koch brothers want to hear that. perry's televised senior moment at last night's cnbc debate prompted an apology tour this morning, with perry offering just a slew of prepared excuses. >> listen, i stepped in it last night. that's for sure. i don't mind saying clearly that i stepped in it last night. i think i made an error last night.

i stepped in it is what my wife would have said. >> there are so many agencies of government out there we'd like to forget. >> as a matter of fact, i imagine there are a lot of americans that were like me last night. there were some agencies of the federal government that they would like to forget. >> there are some agencies of government that i would like to forget, and i certainly forgot one last night. >> and the walk of shame didn't end there. earlier this evening perry went on letterman. here's a portion of the top 10 list that will air tonight. >> number 7. >> i thought the debate was tonight. >> i see. there you go. well, that happens to everybody. it was a mix-up, ladies and gentlemen. sure. number 6. >> hey, listen, you try concentrating with mitt romney smiling at you. that is one handsome dude. >> i know. i know exactly what you're talking about. >> joining me now is msnbc political analyst and author of theforthcoming book "adios mofo: why rick perry will make america miss george w. bush."

joe moore, good to have you back with us tonight. this is not a bad political recovery. what do you think? he did as best as he could in the past 24 hours. >> i've got a beef with you about making me sit through that 53 seconds again. that's painful to listen to, much less watch. but you know, they have been responsive. and you know, people are saying, well, when is he going to drop out and when is it over? and i think the answer is that when you're dealing with a guy who lacks the self-awareness to realize that he doesn't have the capabilities or the intellect to be president of the united states, you can't expect him to have the awareness to say i messed up and can't get out of this thing. they're probably going to refocus on iowa. and they did a great recovery this morning. everything about crisis communications is you address the issue very fast. you humanize.

you make yourself look real. as you say down here, you bury your dead and move your wagons west. he did that fairly effectively. >> he certainly did. now, you have said that you thought that he would get the nomination. in fact, i think you said that he was going to breeze to it. >> yep. >> do you feel that way now? or has he made too many mistakes? is it adios mofo for rick right now? what do you think? >> well, i think what's happened, ed, is all this guy had to do was to show up and speak in declarative sentences. because he is the ideal non-romney candidate. and romney, as we know, is squishy on social values for the right-wingers. and he's got this issue of his religion in the south. all rick perry had to do was show up and be acceptable, and he's managed to blow that. and you would have never created a scenario in which this might have happened, where he could stumble so many times and in such monumental ways. whether he can recover from it or not, i don't know. he's not going to go away as

long as people keep giving him money. he's going to keep running. and he's got enough money to hang around a while. >> well, he went on fox earlier today, and he was bragging about 2,000 people visiting his campaign website. 2,000 people. i mean, if you've got any name recognition at all, you can get that in 15 minutes. i mean, this guy is just totally not prepared for the national stage. you agree with me on that? >> well, absolutely. he never has been -- there's no reason frankly, if you ask me, that he should have ever been governor. and i don't understand why he thinks he can be president. but remember, he's run this government down here that has been very friendly to business and corporations. >> that matters. >> and he's got people writing checks and it makes it possible for this. >> fair to say it's not in his responsibility to step out of the race with $17 million and a big pac that's committed behind him. he's on letterman tonight. that might mop it up a little bit. and some young people out there who don't pay a whole heck of a lot of attention to debates, they might think you know what?

this guy's not too bad. you never know how this is going to play out until it's over. jim moore, great to have you with us tonight. appreciate your time. coming up, rick perry's amnesia wasn't the only debate disaster last night. herman cain talked about character and integrity. right before taking a sexist shot at nancy pelosi. the pizza man's up next in the "zone." stay with us.

cain's comment about nancy pelosi? well, it's landing him in the "zone." later, congressman joe walsh rails against the postal service at a recent meeting with his constituents. we'll talk to one of his constituents who is a united states postal worker. she has her say on "the ed show." stay with us.

can a train wreck save herman cain from a lot of public scrutiny today. because when the pizza man is forced to talk about anything

besides 9-9-9 the wheels fall off. like when he tried to answer a question about what he would do to replace president obama's health care plan. >> it's already been written. we didn't hear about it in the previous country -- previous congress because princess nancy sent it to committee and it stayed there. it never came out. >> for a guy accused of sexual harassment it's probably not a good idea to make such a condescending remark about the first female speaker of the house. but his campaign reinforced the princess nancy remark by tweeting it. and it got worse for herman cain when he was asked about the allegations against him. >> i value my character and my integrity more than anything else. and for every one person that comes forward with a false accusation there are probably -- there are thousands who would say none of that sort of activity ever came from herman cain.

>> all right. so here's the logic. so herman cain wants us to forget about the women who have accused him of sexual harassment because he's managed to control himself around thousands of other women. that's like an accused burglar saying, think about all the homes i didn't invade. he can get away with it because republicans, from rush limbaugh to last night's right-wing debate crowd, are circling the wagons to protect him. but for herman cain to say he's innocent because the number of women accusing him of sexual harassment is smaller than the number of women he's met is deep dish. "psychotalk." congressman joe walsh has been under fire. after a tape surfaced of him screaming at his constituents. but it turns out the most offensive thing he said was not caught on camera. the postal worker who was there tells us the dirty details, next. stay with us. i want healthy skin for life.

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citing a source close to the case, he says joe paterno has reached out to a prominent washington criminal defense attorney to represent him in the penn state sexual abuse case. the attorney named jay cedwik solars was reportedly contacted by paterno's advisers on thursday. but solars has not yet met with the former football coach and a formal retainer agreement has not yet been signed. tonight in our survey i asked you, should penn state cancel the rest of the football season and decline any bid to a bowl game? 59% of you said yes. 41% of you said no. coming up, joe walsh loudly defended big banks and bashed the postal service at a recent meet and greet. or should i say meet and scream? melissa rakestraw, the constituent who confronted him about the postal service, joins me next. [ male announcer ] a simple gesture

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place -- no, you know what? this pisses me off! >> illinois congressman joe walsh's recent meet and greet turned into a meet and scream when walsh planted his flag on the side of the banking industry. walsh says he was just hungry. but hunger doesn't excuse a congressman's ignorance when it comes to the united states postal service. one of walsh's constituents, postal worker melissa rakestraw, called him out on it. >> if the postal service can't compete in the marketplace, i am tired of propping it up. i'm tired of -- >> the government hasn't propped it up at all. >> you know what? >> the government is what's dragging it down with this ridiculous pre -- >> i'll take every little restriction government puts on you, i'll get rid of it tomorrow. go out there and compete. why wouldn't you like that? why? >> as i said before, there's -- >> go compete. >> there's a universal delivery -- >> no, no, no, no. don't talk -- >> that has to be provided, a service that has to be provided

to people across our country to help stimulate economies in rural areas. independent business people. okay? ups and fedex is not servicing these people. >> melissa is right on the money. but congressman walsh refused to listen to her. later in an interview walsh revealed that he doesn't care about the postal service. >> when we talk about creating jobs in this country, sarah, we're not talking about government jobs. we're talking about private sector jobs. that's the point i was trying to get across. >> oh, there you have it. we saw it in wisconsin. we saw it in ohio. and now we're seeing it on the national level. the republican party thinks public employees are disposable and not worth anything. joining me now is melissa rakestraw, a letter carrier for the united states postal service and the woman you just saw on the videotape challenging the congressman. melissa, great to have you with us tonight. when i first saw this videotape, i thought, dude, settle down. you're talking to the people that maybe put you in office.

what was your reaction when he went off like that? >> well, thanks, ed. my reaction was one of shock. i was just really surprised that he was so hyperbolic when the conversation had been very calm and no one was yelling at him. so i was a little taken aback that he had to get so aggressive and obnoxious with his constituents. >> were you a little intimidated there? >> no. actually, i wasn't. you know, the only thing that scares me about joe walsh is his anti-worker ideologies and his total disregard for facts. >> well, when you talked to him about universal delivery and his response was baffling to me. he doesn't understand the post office. the post office goes places where the private sector doesn't go. is that what you were trying to tell him? >> that's absolutely correct,

ed. the post office, first of all, was established by the constitution. i know joe claims to be a big fan of the constitution. and because of our charter, we are obligated to serve all the citizens of the united states. and fedex and ups don't do this. 25% of their deliveries are finished by the postal service. and we also offer much cheaper and more competitive rates than fedex and ups. there's a lot of people that get prescriptions through the mail, elderly people. they can't afford to have these rates go up. >> i understand walsh was very blunt with you about public sector jobs once the cameras stopped rolling. can you tell us about that interaction? >> that's absolutely correct. at the end of the discussion he came up to me and he was face to face. the camera was either off or it couldn't pick up the volume because he was speaking very lo