from real people... 5-year price-lock guarantees. consntly fast speeds... and more ways to customize your technology. ♪ . good afternoon, it's monday, november 14th and here's what's happening. push back. the president takes exception to mitt romney's bold claim. >> if you elect me, they will not have a nuclear weapon. >> not exactly a match made in heaven. >> if i were period i would be willing to use waterboarding. >> they are wrong. waterboarding is torture. >> herman's better half comes to his defense. >> that's not the person he s. he totally respects women. >> for leaves us wondering, who really is herman cain. >> i'm thinking he would have to

have a split important to do the things she said. >> that's the person hem e herman cain is. it is a critical week in the world of politics. president obama turning up the heat on his challengers and for the first time engaging directly with them on the issue of foreign policy. attending the apex summit in hawaii, he was far from south carolina. it was there he departed from the standard policy of staying above the fray. it came after the candidate's bold statements starting with just how they would thwart iran's nuclear ambitions. >> maximum covert operations to block and disrupt the iranian program and including taking out their scientists and breaking up their systems.

all of the covertly denial. >> one thing you can know. if we reelect barack obama iran will have a nuclear weapon. if you elect me, they will not have a nuclear weapon. >> another candidate talking about himself in the third person. maybe it's contagious. the president warned that dealing with iran requires intelligent policy, not politicking. >> is this an easy issue? no. anybody who claims it is is either politicking or doesn't know what they are talking about. >> the president went on to tout sanctions as having enormous impact on iran. the issue of water boring that drew a starker contrast with several candidates advocating what everyone in the aclu to john mccain calls torture. >> i would return to that policy. i don't see it as torture.

i see it as enhanced interrogation technique. >> if i were president, i would be willing to use waterboarding. it was effective and gained information for our country. >> as we enter the holiday season, it felt like the ghost of cheney past. as for president obama he passed no word saying flat out, they are wrong. >> waterboarding is torture. it's contrary to america's traditions. it's contrary to our ideals and that's not who we are and how we operate. we don't need it in order to prosecute the war on terrorism. we did the right thing by ending that practice. >> let's bring in our panel from washington. political analyst and dnc communications direct director karen finney and mark insburg, a middle east adviser to president carter. as i watch this debate on

saturday, it was almost as if the candidates were suffering a form of collective amnesia and the last ten years never happened. mitt romney talks about invade iran, but isn't that what happened in iraq? how well did that go? >> the fact is it's disappointing for those of us who are professionals in the foreign policy area. to listen to this slogan that it would make ronald reagan roll over in his grave. for mitt romney to oversimplify what especially is an extraordinarily complex problem and it's not merely that iran had a nuclear weapon. our ally israel has to contend. how do we defend israel if there is an attack by iran. how do you deal with the consequences of the resources we need to get the international support to deal with iran. you cannot merely say that you

are going to stop iran from having a nuclear weapon when both former republican secretary of defense gates and democratic secretary of defense panetta, both served that merely having iran develop a nuclear weapon in the united states cannot deal with stopping iran. there enormous consequences for military engagement. 28 take far more of the covert action before we get to the stage of talking about actual military military action against iran. >> simplification. it felt like there was a role reversal between herman cain and mitt romney. for once, cain was restrained, advocating the use of sanctions, but romney was all for invading iran. >> romney was going for the cheap shot headline that folks are playing over and over again. if you elect barack obama, this

is what's going to happen. this is part of the problem of the debates as the embassador was talking about. we are not getting to the substance. when you necessary these formats, these are what they can do. say whatever they think will get them headlines because they have the benefit of not being accountable and not knowing how ridiculous most of this would be. for example, invading iran on the basics, with what troops? we know that our troops -- part of the problem is that it has overstretched our military. what troops? by the way, invading a country will cost a lot of money. is that what the american people want? i don't think so. >> that's right. moving from invasion now to michele bachmann, what was your reaction when she was supported by herman cain?

>> they refused to acknowledge how effective the president's own anti-terrorism policies have been against al qaeda without the resort to waterboarding and without the resort to torture. they can't even use one incident where the president of the united states let this country down. when it comes to dealing with the issues of counter terrorism. by the way, just to add to this mix, these oversimplifications of accusing torture is the best methodology is wrong. we have documented evidence and it's clear from all of the counter terrorism records since the beginning of the attacks by al qaeda. waterboarding is only used once and when it was used once against khalid shaikh mohammed, it had to be used 16 or 17 times before he gave his name. >> although she was not there in person, is it fair to say that the ghost of dick cheney was there? >> i suppose so.

the folks who support him in that way, michele bachmann thought there were advantages to invoking his name and to your point about herman cain, he was trying to sound like he know what is he's talking b. that shows just to go back to the other scandals of last week, he knows he's in trouble. now he has get to show and move beyond herman cain the jokester and actually try to sound like a thoughtful credible person who might know what he is talking about. being for supporting a torture is a crowd pleaser with the far right tea party. >> talking about how the u.s. should take lessons from china. listen to this. >> i want to go back and take a look at lyndon johnson's great society. the great society has not worked and put us into the modern

welfare state. if you look at china, they don't have food stamps. china is in a different situation. they save for their own retirement. they don't have af d.c. and they don't have the modern welfare state and china is growing. >> we should have china. go ahead. >> here's the other irony. at that very time, the president was about the time the president was meeting with the chinese leader to talk about trade and all of these other things. >> to support sanctions against iraq. >> can you imagine the people running against you think you should follow what we are doing. it's absurd. we are going to follow china? they went through a period where they killed girl babies because having a daughter is a small happiness. we are going to follow china? >> if you can being brief, what suggestion are they making that

any safety net in this country and provision for the poor, we should eradicate? >> the communist country of china is the example for the united states? look, i know that china -- i have been to china. if michele bachmann believes that the welfare state exists in some form or another, good luck to find temperature the fact is that china as far as i'm concerned is the worst example. i can't think of a country i would least use as an example by which to compare what is wrong with the united states than the people's communist republic of china. >> michele bachmann did it. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> when we come back, herman cain and the vast conspiracy against him. >> people who do not want me to get the nomination or become

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>> after weeks of hiding her under a bushel, herman cain felt a need to expose his wife to the spotlight. the only thing we heard about her is her height as he tried to defend himself against sexual harassment. >> i gesturing near her like this, you are the same height as my wife because my wife comes up

to my chin. >> mrs. cain will appear on their favorite network, fox news, where she declares faith of her husband of 43 years. >> to hear such graphic allegations and know that that would have been something that was totally disrespectful of her as a woman and i know that's not the person he is. he totally respects women. >> consider this. a cnn poll shows a substantial drag on the cain campaign. look at it. it's running a distant third to mitt romney and newt gingrich. for more on the state of cain, i am joined by msnbc contributor crystal ball and writer for "the washington post." crystal, is this herman cain

deploying his wife as his final defense against accusations of sexual harassment? >> you showed the poll numbers. this is about the only thing he has left to do. he is plummeting. women are going away from him in droves. calling nancy pelosi princess nancy is not helping his case any. this story is not over. we are talking about more press conferences and more allegations and accusers and more information coming to light. he has a real problem. i don't think that gloria cain will save his bacon. >> you posted an article entitled herman cain has a problem with women and if the polls are to be believed, he does. >> the poll released on friday showed that for the 50 time, 38% of republican women say that they are less likely to pull the lever for herman cain because of the sexual harassment

allegations and the fact that if she having trouble with republican women hoore becomes t party's nominee, he has a hard time getting the women's vote because in the last election, 57% or 56% of them gave their vote to president obama. democrats traditionally had an advantage with women's votes or women voters over republicans. herman cain's allegations are hurting him both in his party and among the general electorate. >> i want to play one more piece of sound from the gloria cain interview that is set to air on fox news. take a listen to this. >> i looked at especially this last lady and the things she said and i'm thinking he would have to have a split personality

to do the things she said. >> crystal, given that herman cain often refers to himself in the third person, has mrs. cain confirmed he may have a split personality? >> i don't know if i want to go there. >> i'm asking you. come on jonathan, you go there. >> come on. of course. the thing listening to that clip and that's the first time with that particular clip, it made me think of the now famous interview that hillary clinton gave to matt lauer on the today show at the height of the monica lewinsky scandal when she said she believed her husband couldn't do this and it was part of a vast right wing conspiracy. we know how that turned out. >> herman cain will not be the republican nominee and not going to be president of the united states. you are looking at this and saying every day this is in the

news, every day that people on the right seemed to disregard the women and the seriousness of these accusations, it damages the brand among women that size jonathan points out is already damaged and they already struggle to win women over and women vote in greater percentages. >> not many women in congress either. i want to play an earlier exchange that raised eyebrows. listen to this. >> would you be comfortable appointing a muslim in your cabinet or a federal judge? >> no. >> today in an interview, cain said he believes the majority of american muslims have extremist views. where does that lead? >> he cites it's coming from someone anonymous. >> a third party once again. he said that. >> i thought herman cain was

supposed to be against citing anonymous people. here's the thing. this place well with the republican base. the primary electorate is very far to the right. if you look at the polling, i suspect that this is actually a winning issue for him. this is not his problem. >> to say the majority of the people who follow religion -- >> it's very, very disturbing, but the sad state of the fact is right now, it is a popular view on the right. >> i want to quote from the same gq interview and gave ice cream flavors to all the candidates, including tuty fruity from michele bachmann, but more than that he said this. the more toppings a man has on his pizza, i believe the more manly he is. he adds that pizza with vegetables is "sissy pizza." can you help me with that?

come on. >> martin, look. i guess i like my pizzas bald. what can i say? this guy is absolutely unbelievable. he is temperamentally unsuited for running for the nomination of a major political party let alone sitting in the oval office. this is -- you didn't mention the ice cream flavor he gave to mitt romney. >> the most popular of course. >> just plain vanilla. imagine if the tables were reversed and mitt romney said just plain chocolate? it would be unbelievable. mitt romney would never ever make that mistake. >> it's very disrespectful. he picks on the one woman ruining and calls her tuty fruity. say what you will about her policies, that's plain disrespectful. >> i wish we had more time, but thank you so much for joining

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we're centurylink ... we're committed to improving lives and linking americans to what matters most with honest, personal service... 5-year price-lock guarantees... consistently fast speeds ... and more ways to customize your technology. ♪ president obama is in hawaii, but the tension of his administration is back in washington where the supreme court decided to hear challenges to the president's health care law. that could mean a decision in the height of the 2012 race. kristen welker is traveling with the president from the beautiful setting of hawaii. it looks magnificent as do you. did this come to a surprise? were they expecting the court to take the place? >> to your point, it is

absolutely beautiful here. to your second point, they were expecting this. they were anticipating this and white house officials released a statement asking the supreme court to take it up. it has been weighed in a number of courts across the country that were dwighted on the constitutionality. it was just a matter of time before it went to the supreme court. what's interesting about the announcement is that we are also get alg clims into how the case will be carried out. it will allot 5 1/2 hours to hear arguments, far more than the hour they usually give. it speaks to how significant this case is. legal analysts say this is the most significant case since bush v. gore in 2000. that was the deciding factor that put in the white house. >> i'm sure it won't surprise

you that speaker boehner hopes the supreme court will overturn this legislation. i wonder if i can ask, give e given the political leanings, do you think the white house should be a little bit concerned? >> there has to be the decision and think the biggest concern here is really the timing. we don't know the exact date, but the court will hear arguments in february and march and the decision could come months before voters head to the polls. if the affordable care act is found to be unconstitutional it would be a major blow to the president. >> kristen welker in honolulu, come back soon. michele bachmann and monday's top lines. >> if i were president, i would

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>> another debate and that means a brand-new edition of top lines. >> if i were president i would be willing to use waterboarding. i think it was very effective in getting information for our country. >> i would return to the policy. i see it as an enhanced technique. >> waterboarding is torture. >> you advocate elimination of the department of energy. >> i'm glad you remembered it. >> leave him alone! i will tell you all the women. all the viv itd details. there a lot. leave this poor man alone. >> for i need a lifeline, i will look to you. >> i will fill in the blanks. >> when are the 41 runners at 18 and the next two are tied at 15, it is wide open. >> if you elect me, they will

not have a nuclear weapon. >> people who don't want me to get the nomination or become president, i don't know who these people are. it's probably a network of them are behind this. >> there is no inconsistencies. my story never changed. to recap, i forgot. then i remembered. then i forgot having remembered. then pizza break. for every woman who came forward, there two who have not. >> i looked at especially this last lady and the things she said and i'm thinking he would have to have a split personality to do the things she said. >> let's get right to our panel. with me here in new york, republican strategist and let's bring back msnbc contributor and

featured columnist of the "washington post," jonathan cape hart. if i can start with you, a new poll today putting mitt romney in a tie with newt gingrich. wow! what happened? explain. >> a lot happened. we had a lot of debates. if there is constand, we would see solid debate performances. no massive gaps and real moments of true "saturday night live" parody from them. they have been clear and consistent and that's why voters have gotten it. >> gingrich is rising in the polls because the performance of his competitors has been frankly appalling. >> certainly he benefitted from the competitors's performance and that's how politics goes. if a candidate doesn't do well, somebody else benefits. >> newt gingrich speaking a short time ago in iowa said this

about the country and the troubles. listen to this. >> i don't think this is barack obama. this is bigger and deeper and harder than barack obama. in all honesty, there is nobody else with the range of experience and the range of background. the willingness to take the beating that i exhibited in 53 years. >> that are is one confident mr. gingrich. he was known as a serial adulterer. his wife's regular and frequent visits to tiffany's. can he handle all of that? >> the regular visits to tiffany's hasn't hurt him much. people left the campaign and he is rising again. the one thing i want to add to the former speaker's resume, let's keep something in mind. remember the largest area that he has been elected from was the district in georgia. not the entire state like a

senator or a governor, but the tiny district. it remains to be seen whether his rise in the polls will continue and two, whether his inevitable fault in the rise will be the result of smarter than you newt comes to the forward. >> were you taken aback by mitt romney's comments about potentially invading iran given that it seems to me in reading the republican base accident there is no appetite for another war? >> there is no appetite for another war and what surprised me a little bit was how far governor romney walked that out. one thing is clear that wasn't just a statement he threw out there saying it was a planned statement. mitt romney's ad libs are planned. >> she deadly serious.

>> i believe he is sending a message to supporters and sending a message to the community that there is a serious shift in policy if he is president. >> was this mitt taking his lead from herman cain and tossing comments into the debate in an attempt to sound less bland and predictable? >> or vanilla, if you will. >> possibly. >> i hope he is not taking foreign policy queues from herman cain and mitt romney will learn a lesson that now president obama learned. president obama for at his base it was about closing guantanamo bay. when he got into office, he was going to close it. what he learned in office is it's not so simple as saying this is what you are going to do. if mitt romney became president and he had that first and second and third briefings, i too suspect he will cover it won't be so easy to follow through. >> a number of candidates talked

about slashing the foreign aid budget. it seems though that they didn't make a connection between what the foreign aid budget means. i have to ask you, were you surprised by that? rick perry saying slash it to zero holding his hand up in the air with a gesture. >> that are did surprise me that israel was included in that. i spent two months in jordan and israel. even rick perry after the debate walked his comments back and said israel will be our friend and i will be there. it's important when we look at that specific point in foreign policy that republicans make that. thanks very much. a chilling tape of the accused. >> i enjoy being around children. i enjoy their enthusiasm. i have a good time with them. mod to director?

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the allegations of child abuse and a cover up at penn state university seem to run deeper by the day. as the case builds against jerry sandusky, new questions about how far back his abuse of minors may go. in an interview, sandusky talked about his involvement in a children's charity, words that take on a sinister tone. >> how did it all start? basically because i'm a frustrated playground director, i guess. i enjoy being around children and i enjoy their enthusiasm. i have a good time with them. >> as we know, all the boys who testified to abuse at the hands of sandusky met him through that charity. let's bring in michelle franzen at penn state campus. it wasn't until a decade after that interview that sandusky first was investigated, no charges were filed then.

do investigators expect more victims from that period to come forward? >> they do, martin because the grand jury indictment that is 23 pages that came out certainly named some of the counts of what went on between some of the alleged victims and what they were alleging against jerry sandusky and they are hoping by the report that the detrails being released that that might mike possible victims come forward. again san dusky is maintaining his innocence and remains out on bail at this time. over the years he has been under investigation and some would say the investigations have fallen through the cracks and here on campus, there is also questions as to whether the campus and college and the university leaders should have elevated that beyond the campus and bring

it to the police attention sooner. >> indeed. the president was fired last week. the judge who granted sandusky's bail it emerged and also volunteered for his charity. i have to ask you, does that strike you as a conflict of interest? it does me. >> being a question that has been raised, the judge that set the bail to $100,000, many thought it would be maybe a half million. it was unsecured which means he did not have to offer collateral and he was free to go. he also was not required to wear an electronic monitor as this could be a conflict of interest. the judge reportedly volunteered for the second mile, the charity sandusky founded and the in question. it involved the victims and may have donated money to the charity that was not fully

disclosed prior to the arraignment. even though it was earlier reported to be on her website. now the question surrounds that and whether she will recuse herself from proceedings and the court knew about her involvement reported in that charity before this time. where this goes from here. a lot of questions not only within the criminal investigation, but also here on campus and whether or not people took the steps beyond what was required legally to make sure that this case was heard. >> michelle franzen, thank you very much indeed. tonight bob costas tackles the scandal, the most revered coach and suddenly dethrowned. how did it come to this. when we come back, some occupy camps may be shuttered, but is it too big to fail? the first sue herrera joins us

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arrests and confrontations marred the weekend from oakland

and portland to salt lake city and st. louis. demonstrators may be ready to brave the cold winter months, but with authorities crack down and nearby residents complaining, some wonder if the movement can survive. not jeffrey sacks. in sunday's "new york times," he wrote that those who think the cold weather will end the protest should think again. a new generation of leaders is just getting started. the new progressive age has begun. an author, journalist and one of the great observers in new york. it's our great pleasure to have you on the broadcast. where is this occupy movement going? >> i hate the cliche, but it's too early to tell. once it's three degrees below zero, we will find out. what i'm hoping, saturday night

everything was peaceful and people were talking and a few loose change types cool, everyb was well behaved. but they have to go to another level. this is not enough. you can't have a total umbrella protest, which has everything under the sun, as part of it. >> it's interesting, because i was remembering, in 1840 in england, there were protests against the poor laws, and there was everything from signs condemning the laws to signs saying, more pigs, fewer priests. it feels this is an amalgamation of all kinds of different interests. can it sustain, given that? >> i think it can. i agree with jeffrey sachs. i think there's -- what's coming is people zeroing in on the heart of the matter, which is the corruption of lobbyists, the impossibility to get a fair

shake, if you're a young guy or woman trying to make it in the world. the bad debt and bad faith and impunity, the culture of immunity that surrounds a lot of people with a lot of money. >> you recall may 1970 here in new york, and the so-called hard hat protests, which erupted on wall street, and you'll remember it seemed to combine everything from blue-collar workers to hippies and people who equally were protesting against war, against all kinds of things. and of course, four students were killed at penn state, just days earlier. just take us through those 1970s protests, and how you think they may relate to what's going on today. >> well, the hard hat riots, as they were called, at a point, it was the first riot held from the third floor. you know, where people were throwing bolts down on the

protesters. there was a real element of class involved, that it was the last gasp of a certain kind of new york, white, working class. they were angry that they're working and other guys were sitting on the stoop picking up welfare checking. they didn't want to go into the whole theory about why. they were just angry. and they also saw a lot of the students as a privileged group. getting the educations they, the hard hats, never got, although there's very few now who did not get educated among their children and grandchildren. but at the heart of the matter was class. i think this is much different. there's a kind of -- >> this isn't about class, it's about money. >> it's about money, which is not the same as class, anymore than race is about money.

race can be about class. so i think the -- what we're seeing so far with the arrests around the country over the weekend is kind of fed up local polls deciding, let's clear these guys out. it's bad for, you know, target stores or something. but it's not cops, from everything i can read about it, attacking the way the hard hats attack smoed some of the hippied so on in the '70s. it's not the same thing. >> why do you think there's been a reluctance on the part of professional politicians to embrace this movement and in some way, use it for their own purpose. >> because i don't think they know what it is yet. >> or is it because this movement is attacking those politicians who they regard as having been bought by big corporations and being part of the problem. >> well, you very well might be right on that. i think there's such a huge

anger about lobbyists, about the people who buy politicians for big businesses. and, of course, the politicians always vote the way the people that own them want them to vote. so the sense of the deck being stacked, but it shouldn't be turned into a cartoon. there's a lot of decent rich people, actually. they're not andrew carnegie building 1,600 libraries, but bill gates does his bit, and all you have to look at pbs, and the names at the end of a very good show are people who put money into making very good television. but i think the crude version is the one which we're about to see transform or fade away. and i think it will transform. i think jeffrey sachs is absolutely right. >> pete hamill, again, thank you so much for coming in and joining us. we'll be right back.

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for a hot dog cart. my mother said, "well, maybe we ought to buy this hot dog cart and set it up someplace." so my parents went to bank of america. they met with the branch manager and they said, "look, we've got this little hot dog cart, and it's on a really good corner.

let's see if we can buy the property." and the branch manager said, "all right, i will take a chance with the two of you." and we've been loyal to bank of america for the last 71 years. it's time now to clear the air. in saturday night's republican presidential debate involved something of a role reversal between herman cain and mitt romney. we've all got used to herman cain's one-liners and his poorly researched policies. but up until now, mitt romney has been a beacon of sanity in a sea of stupidity. that is, until saturday night. because while herman cain seemed to display an unusual level of restraint at the debate, it was mitt romney who began to call for military action if the iranians ever developed a nuclear weapon. and then he made this most incredible prediction. >> look, one thing you can know,

and that is, if we re-elect barack obama, iran will have a nuclear weapon. and if we elect mitt romney, if you elect me as the next president, they will not have a nuclear weapon. >> what an amazing claim and what absolute nonsense. first of all, the president has been using all the leverage at his disposal to dissuade the iranians from developing a nuclear weapon. sanctions, the international community, even the chinese have been persuaded to oppose the iranians on this issue. and mitt romney promises the american people that he, alone, if elected president, would prevent iran from pressing a nuclear weapon. and there was i thinking nobody in this field could outdo herman cain when it comes to lunacy. but now we have a new front-runner in foolishness, on foreign policy at least, mitt romney is this week's herman cain. thanks very much for watching. dylan ratigan is here to take us