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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  November 23, 2011 8:00am-9:00am PST

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so no big oops moments at the latest gop debate, but newt gingrich grabbed the spot light saying he would not boot all illegal immigrants out of the country. there a campaign by social conservatives to try to stop romney? and protests. we'll talk with the mother of one of those american students who got swept up in the protests. 42.5 million americans hitting the roads, trains, planes and -- we have live reports from across the country. macy's black friday sale -- is this the right way? [ screaming ] bieber fever so strong, that "today" actually put up a clock to the countdown. yes there were some other 30-somethings out there. hi, everybody. i'm thomas roberts. thanks for watching. we're going to talk more about
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travel around the country, but republican presidential candidates are bag on the trail after a spirited debate that drew some definitive lines on foreign policy. right now mitt romney is in iowa to receive a key endorse friend. south dakota candidate john thune is backing the former massachusetts governor. thune is the highest ranking republican on the hill to make an endorsement. it's a big score for romney highlighted by newt gingrich. >> the party that says it's the party of the family is going to adopt an immigration policy which droids families that have been here a quarter century? i'm prepared to take the heat for saying let's be hue major in enforcing the law, without giving them citizenship, but by finding a way to create legality. we have democratic strategist david goodfriend, and comcast network washington
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bureau chief robert traynham. newt struck a different tone that many others on the stage were putting out. how important was that moment for him, for newt, as we get so much closer to iowa? >> i think it was important to him. it differentiates him vice president, but the interesting thing, thomas, that rick perry couldn't do was that he talked about it in very compassionate terms, but also talked about it intellectually, which perry did not do a couple debates ago. it's interesting for newt to come out with this position, how forthright he was with it, he didn't mince words and was very, very direct, and the audience response. there weren't a lot of booms or consternation from the audience, so the question will become how about the electorate, how would they respond to this coming up upcoming primaries.
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>> mitt romney seems to always walk away as the default winner, but people watching? hindsight might think this wasn't one of his best performances. huntsman took advantage of that. >> we haven't done a good job of defining and articulating what the end point is in afghanistan. i think the american people are getting very tired about where we find ourselves today. >> are you suggesting governor we take our troops out next week? >> did you hear what i just said? we don't need 100,000 troops. >> i stand with the commander and have no idea to suggest that pulling out faster than that would do anything but put at great peril the sacrifice that's been made. >> commander in chief. the president is the commander in chief and ought to be notched by a lot of different voices. >> huntsman calls new hampshire a two-man race.
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can it be enough to moderates and independents for his campaign to be successful? >> jon huntsman is my favorite of the candidates, which probably explains why he's got 2% of primary voters or a little more. i think he apetitions to mott rats. but of course he's dealing with a local favorite, because mitt romney is a former massachusetts governor. i want to go back to the immigration issue. one, we're talking about newt gingrich r. but head's talk about mitt romney. he's staked out extremely right-wing views on immigration, which i find ironic, considering that republicans really have to go after the latino vogt in the united states. george bush originally got 40% of them. that dropped to less than 10. if the republicans could get back latino voters, they would be in a formid abable position.
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when you see mitt romney so far to the right, it's going to push latino voters further away. i think the republican party is making a huge mistake by staking out such virulently anti-immigrant views in this campaign. we appreciate your time this morning, gentlemen. and al sharpton joints me in studio this morning. good to have you here. as we talk about some of these new polls that are out, what do you think is provides that? >> well, i think that at this point romney is still the front-runner, but i think it shows there's this anyone but romney kind of spirit among republican voters. newt is about the fifth or sixth person that has now risen in the polls, and it clearly is
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motivated by those in the republican base that do not see willard mitt romney as the one they want to be candidate. >> you've run for president before. how daunting is it when you have that feeling? >> it's very daunting. i thought last night as i watched the debates, because i went through several of them in the democratic primaries in 2004, these guys really tried to come off like they knew what they were talking about. they were very loppy in other debates. there were no oops moments, and i think i was surprised. michele bachmann, who's still got a little factual stuff wrong, came off at her best last night. i think newt is an idea guy. i don't think newt gingrich calculated the politics of his immigration policy, but i think that he came to a policy that he agrees with, so there's no calculation. it was very interesting watching it. >> i want to talk about new number that put president obama at 44%, nearly half of those polled say he doesn't deserve a
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second term. do we need a better strategy from the white house besides running against congress and considering the president up against the gop alternative? >> well, i think first of all, they cannot have a complete strategy until they have an opponent. right now people are saying they're running against congress. i think in some ways mcconned and boehner that congress has tried to run against him, and i think he's responded. i think he's going about it right about going to the american people, laying it out, and when a candidate emerges, we're going to compare that candidate, probably mitt romney, against president obama. until then he has nothing to do but continue to be the commander in chief and be the president and have to deal with a congress that's in gridlock and termed not to do anything. >> yesterday the president was mike checked by occupy wall street protesters. take a look at this.
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[ yelling ] >> no, no, no, that's okay. i appreciate you guys making your point. let me go ahead and make mine, all right? i listen to you, and you listen to me. a lot of the folks who have been in new york and across the country, in the occupy movement, there is a profound sense of frustration -- >> just to explain to everybody, being mike checked is the fact when somebody in the crowd yelling mike check and they go into the prepared statement of yelling what they want to say. we have this shot of a protester giving the president a note of what they were saying, and it said stop the assault on first amendment rights. do you think that the president has done enough to harness the spirit of this movement itself, especially when the president talks about the fat cats, but
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when we know that wall street has never done better than it hat under the obama presidency. >> i think what he's done, with his jobs bill, and the republicans have stopped it, i don't know that he's trying to harness the occupy wall street. i think what he has done is said these are my policies, i'm going to talk about providing jobs, i'm going to talk about closing the gap. if that's what they're about, we're on the same page, if it isn't, then we'll see. i think there has mob some evaluation on both sides of where this goes. i think what has been very interesting is that the republicans have not caught on at all, by fighting against every jobs bill, by not bending at all in terms of investment in revenues, in terms of tax reform, in terms of the bush tax cuts running out. so i think that the adjustment with the republicans are far more inflexible than the
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president. >> we've got to run, but before we do, i told you your lean forward spot in the campaign is great. if you haven't seen it yet, they have to stay tuned through all the commercials until you soot the reverend al's spot. you can see him at "politics nation" at 6:00 p.m. >> i do love it. >> thank you. a couple big birds getting a free pass. that take a look at this one. >> the turkey's name is liberty. there he is, and along with his understudy named peace, he has the distinct of being the luckiest bird on the face of the earth. right now he's also probably one of the most confused. all right. today's pardon means they won't be basted like many of their counterparts come tomorrow. if you are curious. watch our flip side later in the show for a walk down turkey memory lane. i promise it's good. before you sit down to the turkey dinner, carve the bird and dive in, you've got to get to the table.
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no price it's going to prove tough for travelers today. we're watching the traffic, that is, the headaches on the roads, the airport, reporters and cameras angles across the country. we have two reports. mike taibbi, live at laguardia, and the westerly channel's mike walker. >> everybody knows this is a hectic travel day. >> reporter: sure they do. the president talked about the luckiest bird on the face of the earth. it may be the people who came to fly this morning at laguardia. it is quiet here. i'm tempted to reprise the old western line -- that it's too quiet here. i don't think you can show up and get a seat, that's far from guaranteed, but once you get here, we look at the departure board. the word "canceled" doesn't
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appear and hasn't yet today, though we've been advised by the airport's general manager that because of the weather system, there will likely be delays, and even some cancellations. so call your carrier, get here early. and know there's a couple of goodies, some help. for example, kids 12 and understand don't have to take off their shoes going through security. that's one way to speed things up. so far at least here, thomas, things look good. happy thanksgiving. >> we like it. happy thanksgiving to you. now, let's check in to see how weather will factor in, and nick walker has more from the headquarters in atlanta. explain what the i-95 corridor will be looking like. >> there is good news, thomas. the bulk of the rain, the heaviest rain is offshore now. we still have some to deem with, though. there is snow up toward the northern reaches of i-95 into maine.
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some rain now moving into new york, even a few thunderstorms just to the north and south of the philadelphia airport. i'm told there's 45-minute delays there and those delays are increasing. we are continues to see the snow toward the north, but all of this is going to be dying down as we get into the late afternoon and evening hours, as the front moving offshore, so better times ahead as we head into the latter part of the day. once this front has cleared, they'll be in great shape for thanksgiving day, lots of sunshine, mild temperatures. but we will find the pacific northwest still dealing with rain and snow there. by the time we get into sunday after your holiday, we'll be dealing with more rainfall from chicago to atlanta and seen. >> nick walker, thank you, happy thanksgiving. >> you as well. more american -- after two months of steady declines, weekly applications were up to a total of 393,000. that number needs to stay below 375,000 to push down the
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unemployment rate. let's see how the markets are reacting? red arrows across the board. it's been a pretty tough week the dow jones down by 195 points. hi, could you read my list?
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welcome back, everybody. rupert murdoch's media empire has been operating without a key figure. it's reported today that james murdoch resigned as directors of the company that publishes "the sun" and "the times." nbc's michelle kosinski has more details. where does this leave the murdoch family. his siblings are still involved, correct?
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>> right. this is not an enormous change. with but since this scandal, with the murdochs called before lawmakers to testify, there have been calls for at least james to resigned. however, he remains in charge of news international, which controls these british press entities. so is this a huge change? no. is it some change that we didn't know about until now? yes. most recently we saw james called back to testify in these hacking inquiries before a parliamentnary subcommittee, because former executives said his prior testimony, they felt was not forth coming. very uncomfortable moments for james murdoch here. he has denied knowing anything about hacking possibly being more extensive, but he's damned if he did, damned if he didn't.
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if he did know it was more extensive, that would mean his prior testimony was inaccurate. if he didn't know about it, then lawmakers are saying this happened on your watch. why didn't you know? thomas. >> still a lot more answers that remain to be given to the public here. michelle kosinski, thank. the supercommittee's failure has americans frustrated. 55% believe that republicans and democrats are to be blamed. went,shiller is from brown university and joins me this morning. if we go outside that 55%, we sigh more americans blaming republicans. congress members have seen all the polls. when did this inaction finally come back to bite them. think continue to ask americans to sacrifice, yet it seems like
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they don't have any consequence. >> if you had an assignment and you didn't do it, or somebody had a deadline and they simply didn't do it, they would probably lose their job, especially in this economy, but there's nothing, no consequences for members of congress. people say, well, it actually succeeded, because we'll get these cuts anyway, but these cuts don't take effect until january 2013. congress can do a lot of things to get out of the cuts before the day arrives, plus it's after november election. congress always finds a way to squeeze out of accountability. what's worrisome for republicans, more people blame the republicans, as you noted, and i think they're losing the spin war, because a vast majority of americans believe that very wealthy people should pay a little more. on the other hand, democrats have to budge on things like medicare. we simply don't pay in enough. so i think congress can come to the table. once those polls start to cement
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and the republicans start to lose the battle, i think we're going to see more responsiveness. i think in january, february, more talk about a temporary measure, maybe a year or two, and i think they are all going to come to the table. >> let's focus on the payroll tax cut. 21 million families received that tax break, saving about $1,000 for a family earninging $50,000. president obama fighting to extend this. is it that surprising that the gop is not jumping to prevent new taxes? >> i think that they are, for some reason, obviously it's good for a vast number of voters, so i don't understand why they're so reluctant, though they have to account for raising 9 defendant sit again. when congress doesn't do the big stuff, they do the little stuff. i think this congress is the most dysfunctional shameful mediocre congress we have had in 50 years.
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i think sooner or later the american voters will vote for anyone else except for the incumbents. i think that will be the telltale sign, how many people will stip up and challenge these incumbents. >> thank you, and have a happy thanksgiving. >> you too. thank you very much. tune into "now with alex wagner" today. she has an exclusive interview with grover norquist. disgraced coach jerry san dulles kiss faces two any allegations, as the case gets bigger by the day, we're asking, how was this allowed to happened for so long, seemingly in plain sight. plus more fallout for the judge who was seen on tape beating his daughter. an update after this.
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42 bhil onamericans planning to travel this holiday weekend. we want to show you some live pictures from portland international airport in oregon. and in philadelphia on the 76 expressway. a little tight so far this this morning. some big legal news. the department of justice says that merck will pay nearly a billion to settle claims against vioxx. criminal fines and more than $600 million as a civil settlement agreement. also plead guilty to marketing the drug before getting merck approval. it stopped selling vioxx after scientists found it raised heart attack and stroke risks in? patients. kenneth frazier has been hired
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to investigate. all four judges based in penn state's home county has recused themselves from the trial in order to avoid the appearance of a conflict of interest. sandusky's preliminary hearing is scheduled for september 13th, amid reports that two cases of alleged child abuse have been reported against the former assistant coach. if the new allegations are found to be credible, it would be the first known cases involving individuals under the age of 18. well, my next guest is a former national gymnast who helped blow the whistle on her former coach, and she wrote in mer mum war in "chalk up" jennifer sey, it's good to have you with us. in your story, two gymnasts accused your coach don peters of having sex with them. he couldn't be prosecuted,
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however, under california law because of the statute of limitations, but he was banned for life from the gymnastics and the hall of fame was revoked. his lawyer called this investigation tainted at corrupt. where do you see the parallels with the sandusky case? >> well, i think there are a lot of parallels. when you compete in the hyper-competitive world. the rules change a bit. what seems immoral or even unethical or illegal to an outsider, one that sport and that hyper competitive world, the rules change a bit. what becomes important is protecting the coach and the program. sometimes the mental and emotional health of the child or the athlete becomes secondary. >> jennifer, you say the inappropriate relationship that you witnessed between your coach and one of your teammates was treated like gossip and a joke for a while. when you witnessed it, there was something instinctual that made you think something was
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different at what the point did the young gymnast in the situation that was involved in this, when did it cease to be funny? >> to be clear it was never funny. a 16-year-old gymnast is equivalent to an 11-year-old. in some ways we're very mature, in other ways very immature. i think it all made us very nervous. this gymnast and i became close friends in college. at that point she had already come forward. they told her friends and family. even still it was sort of unthinkable to actually go to the eusa gymnastic federation. >> you know, we all get swept up
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in it. it's the closed-off world, but america culture loves a winner, and a winning school brings in money, and a winning team, the coach in question, he took the usa gymnastic teams to the olympics in '84. we had never seen that kind of win before. it was celebrated by america at large. >> jennifer, nice to have you on. i appreciate it. >> thanks for having me. >> mitt romney is speaking right now in iowa, picking up a key endorsement. if you want to know what really makes him tick, "people" got an up close and personal look. plus this thanksgiving week, a helicopter pilot is no doubt thanking his lucky stars. a crash caught on tape.
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mid romney is in iowa with senator john thune, says he's -- but before, romney talked about why he's a good fit for our highest office. >> i'm in this race not because it's the next step in my political career. i don't have a political career. i was only governor four years. i didn't inhale, all right? i'm still a business guy. >> this is a rare personal look at the gop presidential candidate, who always seems together from his head to shiny shoes. accused at times of being too unblemished, on inside "people," there's a one on one interview that answered questions. betsy glick joins me live. nice to have you here. especially with this insider
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look into mitt romney, and being around his family. the candidate seems to have mastered the art of campaigning. were there any surprises that you guys found out? anything that took you back? >> he's at his son's house, cooking meatballs for his family, kind of sunday supper with mitt. very relaxed, very casual and very straightforward. he answers a lot of personal questions, and he took it all. >> one of the areas is his mormon faith. we look at the fact that did not 70% support romney. he favor cain instead, one of the morse passionate responses that "people" was able to get out was the defense of his faith. >> first of all, he said what he has said in the past, is let the
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mormon church explain. but he also said i've heard it all. you can call mormonism whatever you want to call t. i've heard it all. >> this is his second time around. >> right. >> your interviewers mentioned that romney has also been called beige. he was able to respond to that saying you can always get attention by lighting your lair on fire and saying incendiary things, i can be more animated wrestling with my grandkids, but i don't think you'll you expect to see a presidential candidate -- did she seem more animated off the campaign trail? >> yes, i think it's worth pointing out that sell says you will not see my wrestling with my grandkids, yet what he's doing in our story is wrestling with his grandkids. he came to "people" and did want to show our readers this other side of him.
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>> betsy, thank you for being here. we appreciate your time. >> sure. students from northern illinois university gunned down at an off-campus party. this happened earlier this morning in dekalb. niu is now on break, but the campus sent out an emergency text about the shooting, and advised their students still on campus to be cautious. the judge who was captured on video beating his then teen daughter in 2004 was just suspended from the bench. this drew more than 6 million hits online. the texas supreme court suspended judge william adams with pay. a commission on judicial conduct is looking into the tape. a cheating scandal, 13 more students charged this week in a community with top ranked schools that sends almost all of its kids to college. seven arrests were made a few
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months ago, but this story is obviously still developing. at the d.a.'s college students were taking big payoffs to sneak into s.a.t. exam rooms to take the entrance test for high school students. a really close call for a helicopter pilots who was trying to get people into the holiday spirit. he was installing a christmas tree when the helicopter crashed in dramatic fashion. the pilot was thrown out of the koppetter, as it smashes onto the ground. remarkably the pilot is said to be doing just fine. everybody has bieber fever these days. check out this new ad that justin bieber is in. >> i'm going to macy's black friday sale. [ screaming ] >> i know, it's pretty cool. it starts at midnight [ screaming ] it was mostly young girls
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♪ that's logistics. ♪ ♪ saving time, cutting stress, when you use ups ♪ ♪ that's logistics. ♪ breaking news in yemen. months of protest finally bringing about the desired result. the president has just stepped down, signing a power transfer deal in the saudi capital today. this proposal is aimed at ending that country's nine-month uprising. also an update on the death toll from the clashes in egypt. that's climbing by the day. among them, though, three american students are in custody, but one boy's father doesn't believe his son is in any danger. >> he's an american, and i suspect that the egyptian government isn't going to do anything stupid at this point, and they're not going to hurt
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him or -- >> derek sweeney's mom joins me now to talk more about this. joyce, nice to have you on with me. i'm going to talk about how have you been able to communicate at all with derek about how he's doing or any of his friends? >> actually i -- we are able to speak to him. hi father did think he was in imminent danger whether we first found out about it. but i was able to speak to him this morning t. the consul general was with the three boyce, and they put derek on the phone, and he called me on the cell phone, and i spoke to him for only 90 seconds, but it was a jbeubilant 90 seconds.
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they weren't being treated that well, but they weren't treating them badly, they weren't being tortured. they moved them from one jail to another, i don't know the correct terminology, one confinement, but they kept them away from the other prisoners, and the three boys were housed together. >> joy, i know you said you only had 90 seconds to speak to the son. obviously the first concern will be about how are they? what's their well-being like and of course how they're being treated. did you have a chance to ask him, what was he thinks? what got him caught up? i asked him if he did anything wrong, and he said no, of course not. he did not do anything wrong, neither did his friends. they just were there to see what was happening. so, you know i -- i am assuming he was there to see what was
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happening, but i asked him if he was on the roofs of any building, and he said no, they were not on any roofs. and in the video i saw -- >> have you set up another time to speak to him again? >> no. the next conversation we'll have with anybody in egypt will probably by the consul general. the only reason we were able to speak to them so early was because they were waiting for -- they did move them to the attorney general's office, and they were waiting for the translator to come before the questioning would begin. so they let each boy call their parents, and derrik called. i got the phone call and was able to talk to him, and i told him i loved him. that was what was most prevalent on my mind, was to let him know how much he was loved, and all the support and outpouring of
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prayers and support from everybody in our community and everybody around the globe, truly it's been a blessing. >> joyce -- >> and i let him know that, and asked him what was going on? he basically told me they were being treated well. >> well, you certainly have the hearts and prayers of a lot of people around the country hoping for his safe return. thank for you joining me. i appreciate it. >> you're very welcome. thank you for having me. no major gaffes from the latest debate, but herman cain did have some problems remembering the name of the moderator. take a look. >> no, blitz, that's oversimplifying it. i happen to believe if you allow our intelligence agencies to do their job, they can come up with an approach -- i'm sorry, blitz, i meant wolf. >> he's already in the christmas spirit. >> his response time was 5:19.
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gingrich had the most talking time. it seems that donald trump is keeping the door open for a potential run. according to his new book, yes, he's got one of those, two, $270 million can be spent on a campaign. the book is coming out december 5th. protesters occupying the nation's capital hold a day of action today. to protest the super committee's inability to reach a deal. the movement has cost taxpayers at least $13 million for police overtime and other costs. such laws are hot political topics in america right now. several state leaders are under fire for their strict policies. among them governor jan brewer. some in her home state want her out of office for backing it, and joining me is the columnist
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for "the nation." melissa, nice to see you this morning. thank you for joining me. there's a lot of talk about this, so what goes through your mind? >> i'm always concerned about recall. on the one hand we can say this is democracy at work, citizens saying we're unhappy with the direction and we're not going to wait, we're going to go in right now and help our leaders to change direction by changing our leaders. clearly in the midst of still seeing the uprising in the arab spring, what we heard about yemen, we see there's lots of ways we impact or political system, but recall always worries me a bit. it's indicative of a system that's broken. if people were paying attention and candidates were telling the truth, it shouldn't be a circumstance where just a few years later you would feel the need to remove them. >> is it so much about the
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elected official or about the laws that are getting these elected officials, and the repeal of a certainly law. >> in some it's laws. in alabama we're looking at an attempt to remove the immigration laws. in the case of jan brewer, for example, the immigration laws are part of it, but so too are her efforts, around the redistricting plan, so there's also a sense that brewer herself is overstepping the bounds of what a governor or an elected official ought to do. in either case, you see the sense of fundamental distrust in those whom we have elected. not just an agreements, but a distrust that they can do their jobs. that's an indication that something in the system is fundamentally broken. >> are you filling in for rachel tonight? >> i am. i want to make sure i give the props for that. that's at 9:00. thank you, melissa harris-perry. you can follow her on twitter as well, but you can read her great
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articles on thenation.com. we have the presidential pardon, and we have a look at some other rescued birds on the flip side. in america, we believe in a future that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪
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but you've got a meat and potatoes guy? pour chunky sirloin burger soup over those mashed potatoes and dinner is served. four minutes, around four bucks. campbell's chunky -- it's amazing what soup can do.
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oh, my gosh. oh, my gosh. oh, my gosh. oh, my gosh. >> -- even in the face of extreme cuteness. the mom behind this youtube sensation footage says her kids got into a 5-pound bag of flour while she was in the bathroom. results as you say, disastrous, or if you're a cynic, totally unbelievable. yes, the drill these days, post a video that goes viral and face the doubters who cry hoax.
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so this morning, michigan mom went on the "today" show declaring this was not staged. so cynics questioned how because she's so calm. she is in that video saying oh, my gosh, but in the spirit of thanksgiving, we're going to think some moms know how to keep it cool. earlier today we saw the annual white house turkey pardon. president obama spared two birds, liberty and peace. they're going to end up staying at george washington's mt. vernon estate. and we carved out some time to talk about this all american presidential tradition in today's flip side. every year, two birds get a break from the chopping block, but not all of them are so lucky. most delivered to the white house got gobbled up whoever was in office. for years the first pardon happened in 1947 under harry
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truman, that's not true, he ate them. the first official george h.w. bush in 1989. john f. kennedy kept his as a pet, and 1998, clinton let his mingle with the press, but gerald ford greeted his bird in 1975 with a frozen butter ball on the table. that's quite a staredown. and in 1981, when asked what he was going to do with his pardonee, ronald reagan said eat him. all right. and george w. bush had an unforgettable encounter when they snapped this picture of the turkey poking below the belt at the president. john adams wanted the eagle instead. still, come dinner time tomorrow, it's safe to say for millions of americans, this bird is indeed the word. stuffed a lot of info in there.
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that's just so you can be smart at the dinner table tomorrow. that's going to do it for me here today, you'll see me back here at 2:00 p.m. tomorrow. you can follow me on twitter @thomasaroberts. smal l bu sinesses are the smal lifeblood of our communities. on november 26th you can make a huge impact by shopping small on small business saturday. one purchase. one purchase is all it takes. so, pick your favorite local business... and join the movement. i pledge to shop small at big top candy shop. allen's boots... at juno baby store. make the pledge to shop small. please. shop small on small business saturday. 'cause i'm like a savings ninja. ok... [ male announcer ] black friday's here. deals start thursday 10 pm. but we're open all day and night so you don't have to wait outside. the only place to go on black friday. walmart.
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the power of the tax pledge, mercy in the republican debate, poverty in america, and greed on wall street. it's wednesday, november 23rd, and this is "now." their insistence, insistence, insistence on the grover norquist pledge. >> as long as we have some republican lawmakers who feel more -- >> are they wanting to break their oath to never want to raise taxes and raise taxes on the middle class just to play politics?

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