the more than 100,000 men and women who are serving in war zones this holiday. well, this afternoon matt miller is in for dylan ratigan. matt, what's on the agenda today? >> hey, gene, great job. it's like a "washington post" thank giving takeover here at msnbc. we've got a lot of action in terms of turkey jokes and why politicians are like turkeys as we usher folks into the holiday, plus a very good look at the latest chaos in egypt now in its fifth day. happy holidays to you and your family, gene. our show starts right now. today's big story, thanks for nothing. good afternoon, i'm matt miller in for dylan ratigan. the american people would be grateful this holiday if washington stopped acting like a bunch of turkeys. the bird has landed on any

chance the so-called super committee will come to agreement on getting our fiscal house in order. so now americans will have to gobble up more than 1 trillion in arbitrary cuts, right? well, not so fast. those so-called triggers don't come into play until 2013, long after next thanksgiving and more importantly well after the 2012 elections so the turkeys in d.c. continue to serve up a half-baked debate while they focus on getting elected. what americans are hopeful for is an honest plan equal to the challenges that we face, but maybe that's my impossible thanksgiving dream. joining us now with deep wisdom on all this is an economic policy study director at the american enterprise institute and bob greenstein, director of the senate on budget policies. let me start with you, the super committee was a bust, largely expected but still somewhat disappointing. we've still got 25 million americans without work who are

looking for full-time work, and we seem to have a president who is talking about payroll tax cuts but it's not clear he can get congress to do anything at this point? >> well, matt, i think there are a series of debates ahead. in december i think the biggest debate is going to be indeed over whether the payroll tax cut and the federal unemployment benefits are extended. i'm hearing from a lot of people in the financial markets, wall street, business, that if both of these things end there's going to be a big hit to the economy, growth will slow. we'll lose hundreds of thousands of jobs. it's really essential to continue them. they are only temporary. they don't impact the long-term fiscal impact much because they are only temporary. then i think we will have a debate throughout the election here over how to reduce the deficit. we at least have a bipartisan agreement that we need something on the order of $4 trillion in

deficit reduction over the coming decade. no agreement on how to get there, and i do think, i look for the debate to reach a conclusion perhaps. in the lame duck session in december '12 after the election, when the bush tax cuts will expire at the end of the month, the across-the-board budget cuts slated for the beginning of january 2013. those two events may finally concentrate policy-makers once the election is behind them. they may be able to reach a deal a year from christmas. >> let me bring this to you, do you support extending the payroll tax cuts and the unemployment insurance which i've seen estimates which if we don't extend them it could gut 1% off gdp growth next year is. >> we really have to give up this addiction to short-term stimulus. >> does that mean no kevin? >> yes. >> you don't support it? >> that does mean no. you know, the fact is that the

obama administration's position seems to be we can ignore the big problem so we can, you know, not have a tax reform, not have a big fiscal consolidation and we'll be fine if we buy a bunch of clunkers, going into four years. got to get off that bandwagon and start addressing our real problems. >> well, you know, kevin, bob just stay tuned for one sec is. i want to address the long-term fiscal problems, but, come on, the gop will not acknowledge the mathematical and demographic reality that if we're going to double the number of seen injuries on social security and medicare as the baby boomers retire, taxes are going to have to go up just as spending is going to have to be -- the growth of it will have to be slowed. will you acknowledge that? >> no, i acknowledge that. in fact, can you even look some of my colleagues at aei put out a plan to fix it that does have the percentage of revenue to gdp going up a little less than 20%, but i think the republicans recognize that, too, but what's going on right now is politics, it's disappointing, and i agree with bob that maybe next year is when we can finally see something. republicans as we saw in the 86

act and as we saw at least in some of the smoke signals coming out of this not very aptly named super committee, the republicans were willing to broaden the base and get more revenues that way as long as rates didn't go up and the democrats didn't let them do that because they view in this really terrible economy, which is maybe partly their view, they view going into the next election that their best political opportunity is to pillory the republicans as these dangerous radicals who would destroy the country rather than lift the magical tax rate, and i think that they wanted the super committee to fail for that reason, and that's really why it fail. i never in my life thought that we would see such a golden opportunity squandered, you know, to see a president of the united states leave the country while the super committee is finishing up, tells us everything we needs to know about putting politics ahead of the economy. >> bob, i want to play for you, we have -- to senator -- >> i want to respond to ketch's point. >> you will, but i want to hear what michael bennett had to say on "the daily rundown" about the claim the now in washington and then you can respond and react

to that as well as respond. let's listen in. >> for the last year or so, this town has in effect become the land of flickering lights where the standard for success is that somehow you kept the lights on for another month when the rest of the world isn't waiting for us to figure out how we're going to meaningfully participate in the 21st century economy. >> now, bennett's got a point, but react to that, bob, as well as to what kevin was just saying. >> well, you know, with all due respect to kevin, i think much of what he said was a fantasy out of republican talking points. if you looked at what really happened in the super committee, a bunch of the democrats, not all of them, on the super committee, offered to hit the cost of living adjustment, including in social security, to do major reductions in medicare, including big increases in out-of-pocket costs for beneficiaries, things democrats normally don't go near, and it was really rejected by the

republicans because of the impasse on taxes. at first the republicans refused to raise any revenue at all. then they said we'll agree to raise a small amount of revenue but only in return for making all of the bush tax cuts permanent at a cost are $4 trillion, lowering tax rates for wealthy people even below the bush levels, paying more that by closing a bunch of loopholes. what that would have meant is that the two opportunities for a revenue contribution to a big deficit reduction package, the bush high end tax rates and closing loopholes would both be gone for the next decade for a paltry amount of revenue. the alternative path is what the bowles/simpson commission laid out, what the bipartisan senate gang of six laid out, that had revenue increases about eight times the most the republicans offered in the super committee. what was striking to me, matt, was that the democratic offers in the super committee were to the right. to the republican side of both

bowles/simpson and gang of six. they laced less revenue than bowles/simpson and gang of six. they cut spending a bit more and the republicans turned them down. i -- i don't see how we get anywhere from here unless the republicans have got to move on revenue. the democrats are going to have to move on things like medicare, but in the joint committee, the democrats were willing to move and the republicans basically were not. >> kevin, we've got about a minute left, and i -- i basically agree with bob. i think the republican intransigence on taxes is a huge problem though i will say obama hasn't offered the leadership on the broader budget framework that people need to understand. gives a few speeches but doesn't do much to sell it or make people understand the choices, but what's going to finally force this debate? i was in china a couple weeks ago. they all want to know, you know, is our money safe? when are you guys going to get our act together? will it take some kind of externally forced crisis? will it be another debt ceiling showdown in early 2013?

are we just doomed to kind of, you know, muddle along like this without a real jobs agenda and without a long-term fiscal agenda? >> well, i sure hope that that's not what's going to happen, but i think there are two things that can happen. one is that a president is elected with -- with, you know, an overwhelming majority that promises to do something serious about this, and i've got to say that none of the presidential candidates has really put down a fiscal consolidation plan that makes a great deal of sense and has the kind of details we take to take momentum into the legislative process. the other thing is we have a crisis that's like what's going on in greece where we can see the world is melting and we have to suddenly cut things willy-nilly. i would hope that we can get ahead of the curve but right now it looks like the forecast is that we'll probably muddle along. >> all right. we'll have to leave it there for today, gentlemen. kevin hasset and bob greenstein, happy holidays to you, hopefully we can get more progress on

this. >> we all know money in politics is preventing the debate america deserves on all these issues. just ahead, a podcast with director and co-founder of free speech for people, john bonifaz, a truly fascinating conversation. please, give a listen. coming up, a new wave of unrest in egypt sparking fresh fears for the region. the implications of a second revolution and what the gop presidential candidates had to say about it. plus -- >> lying just beneath everyday reality is a world we hardly recognize, a breathtaking world where much of what we perceive about the universe is wrong. >> how we're all being deceived about the wonders of the universe, and a little thanksgiving news cornucopia for you from rising turkey costs to a tough turkey trot. that's all ahead. congratulations.

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big new developments out of the arab autumn this afternoon. first in yemen, nine months of violent protests have finally forced the hand of president saleh who announced he'll step down. it's been another deadly day in syria with at least 41 killed. the tense situation there continuing to threaten the stability. entire region, but all eyes right now remain focused on egypt where a fifth day of clashes between the military and civilians has many asking is this a second revolution? nbc's ayman joins us from tahrir

square. what's the latest? >> reporter: well, you know, it's almost 11:10 here local time. several thousand egyptians still behind me in tahrir square. you can probably hear some of the noise and the ambulance and the sirens actually, and that's because off to my right, one of the major streets that leads to the ministry and interior building, that's where the clashes have been taking place over the past five days and that's where they are still going despite efforts by the military and others to try to calm the situation down. there is a crisis here on two levels really for the military. there is the on-the-ground situation, the clashes that are taking place, more than 35 people killed. today the military brought in some senior religious figures to try to calm the protesters down and create some distance between them and the security forces. that doesn't seem to have worked and at the same time you have the political crisis. the government has resigned. the military is trying to put for the a plan, perhaps even more assessments to ease the protesters and behind me no indication to accept anything but a complete civilian transfer. >> ayman, just briefly.

one thing i think people don't understand is how intertwined the military is with the economy. it runs many businesses. has lots of perks that are related to those businesses. letting go their hold on power and their economic privilege is really -- seems like that's at the nub of what this showdown is about. can you say a little about that? >> yeah, absolutely. in fact, that's one of the thorniest issues here. in the run-up to the elections which are scheduled to take place on monday, the egyptian military, as you mentioned, is essentially an industry in egypt. they receive billions of dollars worth of aid and equipment from the united states government, but more importantly they run businesses in egypt. they run key industries, whether it's infrastructure projects, construction projects and others, and by some estimates it makes up for a huge percentage of the economy, close to 20% to 30%. many people feel that in the last few days the egyptian military tried to safeguard its interests by putting forth some new laws in place that would protect and isolate the military from a new constitution, and that's really what angered the

people. they felt that the military was behaving in a supernatural way, above the laws of the country, and that's why people here have really turned the country towards the military for this behavior and also not giving a clear path to transition itsing to a civilian government over the next few months. >> ayman, be safe out there and thanks for that great reporting. time now for the friday mega panel. imogen lloyd weber, the nation's ory melber and cihrystia freeland. what do you make of where this fifth day of clashes is now? do you see an end game? it seems really hard to understand what's really going to happen. >> i think your final question, matt, if i may say, was exactly the right one, and i actually give the people in the streets a lot of credit. i think a lot of people were

saying after the arab spring that this was going to be a flash in the pan, that the protesters didn't really understand what was going on, that they didn't have the patience to see their revolution through to its conclusion, and i think people have come out on to the streets of cairo because they are saying, you know what? we meant it. we really do want democracy. it wasn't just about getting rid of mubarak and replacing him with a military dictatorship. it was about a real democracy, and i think that's why they are out there. now having said that, it's much harder to predict how this ends, but i -- i think that we should give the people there some credit. >> ari, what do you make of this? do you see any path towards -- what would success look like at this point for those in the streets? >> well, i think for those in the streets, success would look like a civil non-violent transition to a truly functioning set of elections that brought in independent elected leaders who would actually not have an agreement

or a dance with the military authority that stepped into the vacuum but actually exercised meaningful control, and in any of these countries that you see that have histories of these blended either dictatorships or coups, you see it in south america or in the middle east context. the military often operates as a checkpoint, that is to say, even whether when there's a dictator exercising powers, the generals aren't going along. the other thing about the eco-systems about the protests, the april 6 movement that started in january 2008, what started with tahrir square and led, of course, to this arab spring, these were all oppositional movements. they were not about one group. they were not saying muslim brotherhood. they were about criticizeding the powers at be and in the case of the january 25th protest they started with images of beatings of chalid zaid by the security forces that galvanized people, so i think that there is a strength and pattern here of mobilizing against the abuse of

power. in some ways that is a more unifying opportunity than being for a certain political, you know, opposition group. >> imogen, what do you make of it all? >> well, fundamentally the future of the region has been absolutely dependant on the big three, egypt, iran and saudi arabia, so for all our security here in the west, actually what happens in egypt is absolutely vital. you must remember that the narrative of the arab spring has been very helpful in defusing the narrative of radical islam. iran is under pressure. it's feeling very isolated. therefore, it's very important to us what happens in egypt now. i would like to know exactly really what the state department are doing. it's so, so vital to all of our security that the state department are there, easing the transition. how are we helping? it's so important to us and the security of our futures. >> let's -- we've only got time for a quick lightning round on what we're thankful for, so just

very quickly around the horn, as we head into this holiday, chrystia, what are you thankful for? >> tried to think of something clever and sass toe say and i was unable to do that so i'll be very earnest and say i'm thankful for my wonderful children, especially my 2-year-old who this year moved out of diapers which i am very thankful for, so thank you, econn, thank you, natalka and thank you halima. >> ari melber, fine to be earnest. we don't have to be cynical media types. what are you thankful for? >> politically i'm thankful that the super committee failed. i think it was a solution in search of a problem that is not the key problem in the country which is jobs, and personally i'm really thankful for watch the throne which was i think one of the best albums that came out this year and really brought hip-hop back into the conversation. there hasn't been a hip-hop album that good in a couple of years, i think? >> imogen, this is our breakaway

holiday from the brits, what are you thankful for? >> i'm thankful to be your guest. thank you so much, america, for letting me be here and helping you share an american dream. this is a fantastic country, and yes, it's great to celebrate it with you. >> well, i'm -- i'm thankful to my family and for the health of my family. i'm thankful, of course, to our meg ark panel who is going to be sticking around straight ahead, how's that for a thankful segue. one thing many americans don't have to be thankful for this thanksgiving is financial security. what the findings of a new poll reveal about economic inequality in america. [ male announcer ] tom's discovering that living healthy can be fun.

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a new report out today says nearly half of all u.s. households are struggling to make ends meet. to quote the authors they lack economic security. at the same time as we've been reporting about the same percentage of congress, 47% are millionaires. no wonder people are angry, like

these members of occupy the highway who literally walked from wall street to k street and then capitol hill late this morning. so when is washington finally going to get the wake-up call? joining us now is bethany mcclain, contributing editor for "vanity fair" and contributing editor for reuters. welcome. >> hi, how are you? >> good to see you. >> look at these disparities between, you know, the 99%, the struggles we're seeing and the kind of growing expression of frustration and anger around the country and then more and more news about congressmen being able to trade on inside knowledge, you know, playing by rules that don't apply to the rest of us. wall street bankers on the same ride on bonuses. what's it going to take to -- to get a serious response to these issues? >> well, i think it's going to take a real willingness to tackle a really tough issue, and i think a big part of the

problem is there's not an easy fix. it's not a fix that can be encapsulated in a political sound bite because the problems are long-standing. even if you go back to the credit crisis, not a crisis about homeownership, a credit crisis meaning people were using their homes to withdraw equity and live and drive our consumer society so this problem has been decades in the making, and we need a serious long-term plan to tackle jobs, to tackle -- to tackle growth for the middle class. >> now our mega panel is still with us. imogen lloyd weber has a question. >> hi there. >> sure. >> you're one of the leading experts in the enron scandal, and i was just wondering what you made of what went on with mf global recently. >> well, i think it shows you that all the best attempts at regulation and at fixing accounting can still go awry and it's really scary. you had a company that was watched by at least three or four different regulators and with tightened capital

requirements that still managed to go bankrupt and leave customers, many of them -- many of them regular people who were just individuals trading through this firm without access to their cash, and it violates a fundamental tenant of these futures markets so you can still have radically unfair crazy things happen in the market a couple of years after financial reform was passed, and i find that a deeply unsettling thing. >> and i want to -- just to echo that, ari, before i get you in. it is fully three years since all this happened, and we're right back in the same situation where you even had jon corzine, jumped now to mp global, in a situation where if there wasn't a bankruptcy declared and he was ousted he would have walked away with some golden parachute on the back end after wrecking the firm. ari, you -- you're a man who is in search of justice. how are we going to fix this stuff? ask bethany a question. >> the question i wanted to know is what do you think about the way the media has related it to occupy wall street? something i can't get my heard around is how much weird and

free advice there is. i don't remember during the tea party or anti-war movement there being this much sort of free tips. nicholas kristof in the "new york times" saying good job, but here's a list of things you should be advocating for which i thought was weird if he's not a member of the movement and the on many television channels more negative bullying or patronizing at times of this movement and you, of course, have been at the intersection of the way the media can play an accountability role for large organizations and movements in our society but also i think try to be fair or neutral. do you have a take on this, or do you agree with my premies? >> i'm not sure i agree with your premise because i guess i would sum it up a little bit differently which i think that a lot of people buy into the broad notion of what occupy wall street seems to be about which is that we've got this big problem in our country when i saw a figure recently that some 50% of americans depend on a form of cash assistance from -- from the government. that's -- that's really frightening, so people are

behind the broad premise, but then you look at occupy wall street and it doesn't seem to have a clean coherent message. a lot of people have a lot of different agendas, so i think it's not surprising that people want to grasp on to what seems to have the potential to be very powerful and kind of say, here's -- here's how we can make it powerful, so i guess i would say the advice might be coming from a good place rather than a patronizing oar controversial place. >> chrystia, your question for her. >> excellent reporting to my colleague. >> thank you, thank you. >> my question is to what extent do you think that this sort of hammering of the middle class that matt discussed at the beginning of this section is about crony capitalism as matt's introduction suggested, you know, about the millionaires in washington rigging the game, and how much of it do you think is just about the way the global

economy works right now with technology, with globalization? >> that's a great question, and i guess i'd have to say it's a mixture of both. i think we definitely have a problem with crony capitalism and even more there's a sense that we have a problem with crony capitalism, that the spoils of the game go not to those who succeed on their own merits but rather to those who happen to be -- to be the most plugged in, and i think when you look at our society it's hard to challenge that, but at the same time we also have a -- a fundamental issue with -- with jobs going overseas and with -- with just the down side of globalization so it's -- i think it's both -- i think it's both at the same time. i think there are some real fundamental changes going on economically and then just a really screwed up layer on top of that. >> if you want to know the answer, it's actually 32% crony capitalism and 68% globalization. >> that's right. >> and rapid tech lodge cll change. >> glad you said that.

>> just got a chance for one more quick question. you followed the banking stuff for so long. >> sure. >> europe now in real crisis. the same kind of questions of where's the regulators, the bank capital, a few years after they should have learned from our own meltdown. stress tests being planned here again for our banks. are you optimistic or pessimistic that europe can get its act together and why? >> well, i'm rapidly becoming more pessimistic given that people have been saying for a long time now that europe can get it together and will get it together and still has shown no signs of doing so. look, i think the problems there are fundamental, too. people talk about austerity in various countries as being a solution to the problems, but they are far more structural than, that and i would point to two aspects when i say they are structural. one is obviously the euro which many people are more qualified to discuss than i am, but other part of it is right back to the banks. the banks are i think 325% of european gdp, and they have had

this very messed -- these very messed up incentives to buy sovereign date thanks to the low cap call requirements against sovereign debt, and that's led to a lot of incensives for countries to -- to get themselves in trouble, and that's -- that's a real fundamental problem with the banking system that i think needs to be addressed. >> well, thanks for your insights. i think we'll have to leave it there for this thanksgiving. a happy holiday to you and yours. a big thanks to the meg ark panel. that's chrystia, imogen and ari. ari back a little later for the rant. don't touch that dial. straight ahead, we'll get to what's really on your mind this afternoon which is getting to grandma's house for thanksgiving dinner. we're tracking weather and traffic, and we'll have a live report in a moment. my sinus symptoms come with a cough

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don't require congressional approval. well, here's another one. we can't wait to pardon these turkeys. i like doing that. >> well, there's one turkey who can breathe a big sigh of relief. but that won't be the case for nearly 45 million other birds this thanksgiving. americans will eat nearly 675 million pounds of turkey at a cost that's enough to ruffle some feathers. the price of dinner with the fixins is up a whopping 13% this year to about 50 bucks, and the cost of just getting to grandma's house might leave a bad taste in your mouth, too. gas prices are up 16%, airfare for the top u.s. routes is up 20% and even train tickets are up as much as 5% depending on where you're going and then there's the weather, affecting travel up and down the eastern seaboard and the pacific northwest. 243 cancellations today alone according to the latest estimate from our friends at

flightaware.com. nbc jay gray is at chicago's o'hare airport, one of the busiest hubs. jay, got to be grand central station out at o'hare. >> you know, it has been throughout the day that we're seeing right now. everything you described is indeed fact people still gobbling up the chance to travel up 4% the first time it's been up for the holiday season this year. take a look behind me. you can see there's a bit of a line at this security portal here, but, again, it's moving very well right now. you talk about those turkeys getting a pardon. well, a lot of the passengers today getting a pardon. i think it's because they prepared for this very well. everyone getting to the airport awfully early or getting out on the road or getting out there early as well and then packing properly so that they can work their way through the security and make sure that they get through without a hitch. tsa has also changed a few things, especially when it comes to kids. they won't be patting down kids and kids can keep their shoes on as they go through security so

that speeds things up in a bit and the scanners everyone was so worried about last year, last thanksgiving, the full body scanners, well, they say they are have sped things up and overall it's been very, very busy across the nation and also very smooth sailing at this point. now, we'll get another surge when work ends and people load up and get out to the airport and get out on the roadways, but the biggest day may be sunday when everyone who has left throughout the week, matt, will be coming home, all or a lot of them. >> all right. jay gray out of chicago's o'hare. where do you have to get to? i hope you'll have safe travel. >> thank you. i'm headed back to pennsylvania. i came from pennsylvania on an assignment there, back here for the day and back to pennsylvania for more work. >> hope it goes well. happy holiday to you and your family and we'll be talking to you again on the other side. >> reporter: thank you. >> from the fabric of the cosmos to the big bang theory.

>> dr. green. >> question? >> yes. >> you've dedicated your life's work to educating the general populace about complex scientific ideas. >> yes, in part. >> have you ever considered trying to do something useful? >> physicist and best selling author brian green on why you should forget everything you thought you knew about time, space and the universe. why do we have aflac...

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if we could go beyond our solar system, beyond the milky way and even beyond other distant galaxy, past the end of the observable universe, we'll find that there's more. >> that's a clip from our next guest's nova special which tosses everything you think youy in about our universe out the window, including our current notion of how it all began. we've heard about the big bang theory, but what if there wasn't just one massive explosion but multiple big bangs creating duplicate parallel realities even as we speak, and they are not only duplicates of our universe but of us, too. it's at the heart of a hotly debated new field of science called the multi-verse. with us is physicist brian green and host of nova's, the fabric of the cosmos series on pbs. the theme of which he describes is how could we be so wrong? the final episode, universe or multi-verse, previews tonight.

welcome, brian. >> thank you. >> so, you know, i just didn't -- i didn't get physics. somehow i was screwing around, and i was very glad to have a chance to talk to you and preview what the end of the series is, and before we get to the multi-verse, tell us in a couple of big strokes, what are some of the big things that you've been doing in this series that we don't understand and you get wrong? >> well, many people have a conception of time that we think is not right. the past is gone and the future is yet to be, and in one of our programs we described how einstein's work showed us how in the past, present and future they are all equally real. they all exist. very strange idea. we've already gone into quantum physics and described how the processes that happened in the microworld are very different than things you see in the everyday life. an object over here can affect the object over there without anything seemingly passing between theme. strange ideas and experimentally proving and we need to rethink our understanding of the world to grasp the way nature actually works. >> say more about the time thing

for a second. i know it's hard to do justice to all of this in the time that we have. how -- how do you wrap your mind around the idea, what does that mean, that things in the past are actually still simultaneously existing and that there's a future that all of us have that's out there that's having a destiny or what? >> that's right, and very much as we're comfortable with the idea that all of space is out there, we really should think that as we describe in the program that all of time is out there, too. so every moment in some sense is frozen in place in a grand cosmic loaf that has all of space and all of time. >> well, we're going to have to parse that some more, but tell me more first about your idea of the multi-verse. what is that and what are its implications? >> well, we long thought that the word universe means absolutely everything, all that exists, but there is work suggesting that our universe may be a small part of a much grander cosmos. one way of thinking about it is

what you describe. the big bang may have been how our universe began, but it might not have been a unique event. there may be many big bangs, each giving rise to its own realm giving rise to its own universe, and that is just one expanding bubble and a big cosmic bubble bath that has other universes. other bubbles, other universes. >> now, how is that different from just there being multiple solar systems or multiple galaxi galaxies? if it's a multiple universe, does that mean that we exist in another time and space somehow? >> sure. well, there's really two parts to it. other solar systems, other galaxies are part of our universe, and in principle we could go in a spaceship and travel to these places. the other realms that we're talking about are separated from us by rapidly expanding space that we could never cross, realms that are inaccessible to us. realms called universes of their own, and if you follow the mathematics of these ideas, they

do suggest that there would be duplicates of us in some of those other universes. we'd be having this conversation. maybe i'm interviewing new this other universe. these are the small differences of details that can happen in the other rell sglms this reminds me -- i was a big fan of the original "star trek" series and there was one, if you ever saw it, a good james kirk, a good spock and a bad spock. does that mean "star trek," was a visionary? >> there are a lot of ideas that you find in science that do find a place in our current understanding of science. not all of them. it is impressive how certain science fiction has advances in science. this is hugely speculative. we do not know that this is right, but as we describe in the program tonight, the reasons for taking it seriously, and we describe them and it's a very exciting prospect that hopefully we'll know whether it's right or wrong. >> and how does -- you know, who

is doing what to develop the theory that there is this multi-verse? is this you or colleagues who are -- in your office burning the oil late at night doing mathematical equations what have the universe ought to be if it obeys logical rules? help people understand how the thinking evolves here. >> that's a good description. there are physicists around the country, around the world, that are following mathematical equations to see what we can learn about this possibility of other universes. there are other physicists who think this is a completely wrong way to go. so this is a very contentious subject, and one of the things that we do in the program tonight is allow both sides to air their vurpts, very exciting to see science in the moment of discovery where there are different per spent i was that are fighting it out, and that's what's happening at the moment. >> how does a question like this ever get settled definitively or at least for this generation of sciences? >> we may not have a definitive answer, but it's possible that we might because in these

theories it's possible for some of these universes to collide with one another as they expand, and if our universe got hit by another universe, we'd see evidence of that through ripples. in short, there are some long shot possible observations that might show whether this idea is right or wrong. >> now, this is i know what's premiering tonight is the last of what's been the four-part series. just about a minute left. what are a couple, three big things that you think has been the big takeaways that would surprise or shock people as they try and reorient their kind of common sense intuition about how the world is based on the latest from the frontiers of science? >> sure. we described how empty space is not ever empty. there's always unavoidable activity happening in any realm that you might think devoid of matter or energy. we describe how the universe is -- >> that means, brian, even inside rick perry's head is something going on. >> i won't go near that. i won't go near that. >> go ahead.

>> also described how there's energy in space, driving the universe to expand. the universe is undergoing accelerated expansion and the whole quantum idea that the universe evolved according to the rules and the possibility tonight other colliding universe. it's a different way of thinking about space, time, and the cosmos. >> glad you're working on these small questions. what's your next project and on your to-do list for 2012? >> we have something called the world science festival where we try to bring science to general audiences to events in new york city, so if anyone is in new york end of may, come to the world science festival. great series of events for kids, adults. really shows the wonders of science. >> brian greene, not just a great physicist but a wonderful promoter of these projects as well and a popularizer of the science that we all need to better understand. good luck. that's the final installment of the fab rib of the cosmos that premiers tonight on pbs.

thanksorn. >> my pleasure. coming upon "hardball," questions and answers from last night's gop debate, including whether new front-runner newt gingrich is out of step with the gop on immigration. but first, pumpkin pie and pepper spray? ari melber is back with his incisive daily rant. helps defends against occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health. you had me at "probiotic." a vacation on a budget with expedia. make it work. booking a flight by itself is an uh-oh. see if we can "stitch" together a better deal. that's a hint, antoine. ooh! see what anandra did? booking your flight and hotel at the same time gets you prices hotels and airlines won't let expedia show separately. book it. major wow factor!

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in the wake of the uc davis scandal, here's ari melber in his israel day sweater with a rant on you're the one that is really keeping an eye on the powers at be. take it away. >> if you look at the top ten searches on google this week,

several thanksgiving favorites, stuffing, pecan pie and sweet potato casserole all make the list but right in there in the top ten was a much darker entry, pepper spray. that's because millions of people around the country were looking for this video. what you see there, and you may have already seen on the internet, is footage that was not from a journalist. it's not from a professional organizer. this footage that you're looking at was not even shot by a political activist. it was shot by thomas fowler, a sophomore who saw police clashing with protesters on his campus at uc davis on friday. fowler had just gotten out of work, and he shot the incident on his cell phone. the video went viral, as you may already know, and it got results. within three days those two officers you just saw on screen were placed on leave, along with their boss, the campus police chief. fowler was turning the tools of surveillance back against the state. the same tactic was used a few

months ago to document unprovoked pepper spray attacks at occupy wall street and while i don't buy most of the analogies linking the arab spring to the current economic protest, it's worthy to note that the very first group organizing the january 25th note was built around sousveillance over the course of a man named saieef. those images in that society were especially powerful. images of misconduct are going to cut more ice than accusations. that true in our history when american tv stations broadcast video of police attacking protesters in the civil rights era, and in a different way it's true today when citizens are even even less didn'tant on big media to get the word out. people can make their own vitsz and distribute them through the networks. no turning this backwards but that doesn't mean the technology

is inevitable. i'm not saying the u.s. congress will ban your cell phone but it may restrict how you use it, and while the government restrict its use of surveillance on its citizens, at the state level we're seeing legislature cracking down of citizen surveillance, for example, in illinois, recording a police officer without consent is a felony that can land you in jail for 15 years. christopher drew, an artist, faced prosecution for video of an arrest he saw. he wanted to expose one law he thought was dumb and wound up breaking another one. we're living in a period of remarkable social change here, but the big idea when you look at this surveillance by citizens, we have to make sure that the government does get in the way. matt. >> that's a great rant, ari. so glad you weighed in on this, because in california where i live, this is obviously where the uc davis stuff is going on,

a huge deal. still have a little time to chat. >> sure. >> i'm amazed. i saw one commentator, one blogger said it really does change fundamentally the dynamics of these situations because for every one person in authority with a gun who is doing some kind of suppression, now you've got a dozen people with cameras because all of our phones are cameras. this really changes the game forever, doesn't it? >> it does change the game, and as long as you have the legal ability to do these recordings, which in many places you do, but in some states now we don't, as long as you have that ability, what you're saying is even if you can't stop it in the moment, you can bear witness and get in the case of california, as i said, a very quick response so i think it's very important that people know their rights here. >> now, the other thing i say in our waning seconds is i'm also very excited that the uc davis folks are putting college tuition and skyrocketing college