post-dictatorship election in egypt, they had to come up with 250 symbols, meaning some lucky somebody got to be a pyramid and somebody else got stuck being a blender. >> i couldn't have been more delighted watching you address tim pawlenty directly as he was sitting in our green room. i'm glad you connected. looks like you are going to get him. >> looks like i am going to get him with a healthy assist from you, my friend. thank you very much. >> i get him to sign something when he comes on the show. >> we also have leg irons. >> we will get him for you. it will definitely happen. >> awesome thank you. newt gingrich and herman cain are battling for headlines and thanks to another woman herman cain wins. >> i did not have an affair, okay. >> another explosive allegation

against herman cain. >> another accusation that i had an affair with someone. but i acknowledged that i knew the women. >> the statement that lynn wood put out is as close to a confirmation of the allegations as you can come to. >> according to her it lasted 13 years. >> did you know her for 13 years. >> yes, but i did not have an affair. >> a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut. >> herman cain wants to solve -- but doesn't want to be president. >> i'm not driving out of this race, no. >> what about newt? >> keep that sort of sweeping gigantic ego. >>ing inning in picked up a key endorsement in new hampshire. >> potential to shake up the race. >> once the union makes you their guy you are their guy. >> newt gingrich can't win. >> gingrich will have a better

time in the general election than mitt romney. we don't think he's got it. >> anybody but romney. >> he's the managerial type. mitt romney still has a problem connecting with the base. >> romney is, as andrew sullivan said, makes plastic look genuine. >> i think jon huntsman is holding his head in his hands. >> for newt gingrich a month ago to capture the manchester union leader endorsement would be been incredible. >> newt gingrich was able to surge to the top of the republican primary presidential polls only after the herman cain bubble burst. sexual harassment allegations started cain's slippage in the polls, followed by repeated demonstrations by a lack of authority on the daikon fronting all of the candidates and then

of course there was this. >> okay, libya. president obama supported the uprising, correct? i do not agree with the way he handled it for the following reason -- no, that's a different one. i got to go back. let's see. i got all awe of this stuff twirling around many my head. >> it turns out one of the things twirling in his head today was the certain knowledge that his campaign was going to be crushed today by ginger white. who tonight revealed details of what she says was her over 13-year off and on affair with herman cain. ginger white told a fox news atlanta affiliate that the affair began in the late 1990s in louisville, kentucky, where she saw the then president of the national restaurant association give a presentation.

afterwards she and cain shared drinks and cain invited her back to his hotel room. sound familiar? over the next 13 years, he flew her to cities where he was speaking and gave her gifts. >> it was pretty simple. it wasn't complicated. i was aware that he was married and i was also aware i was involved in a very inappropriate situation, relationship. >> as evidence 0 of their relationship, ginger white produced two books allegedly signed by cain. she has cell phone bills showing 61 phone calls or text messages to or from cain's private cell phone. the latest from september of this year. >> we texted the number in herman cain called us back. he told us he knew ginger white but said these are more false allegations. he said she had his number because he was trying to help

her financially. that was the end of the call. >> herman cain's criminal lawyer, len wood issued a statement tonight. you remember len wood, he's the tough guy that went all gang ta against the woman charging herman cain with sexual harassment. >> and now herman cain in the court of public opinion has to respond, not to admissible evidence. he has to respond to here say, he's not afforded the opportunity for me to cross-examine his accusers. he's not afforded the safeguards that are part of our system of justice. >> the statement len wood issued tonight is the political equivalent of an admission of what ginger white is saying, an admission that it is truly true. here's len wood's statement. this appears to be an accusation of private alleged consensual conduct between adults, a subject matter which is not a

proper subject of inquiry by the media or the public. mr. cain has alerted his wife to this new accusation and discussed it with her. he has no obligation to discuss these types of accusations publicly with the media and he will not do so going forward. now, when a politician's criminal defense lawyer says the politician will not discuss an allegation that the politician had an affair with that allegation being made on television by the woman who claims the affair, that politician is essentially telling you that everything that woman is saying is true. it is so true that the politician can't even talk about it. when herman cain's campaign peters out, most republican voters will remember the charges of sexual harassment or perhaps this 13-year affair. as herman cain's worst sin as a

candidate. but, in fact, his worst sin as a candidate was this. >> many african-americans have been brainwashed in to not being open minded, not even considering a conservative point of view. i have received some of that witt rhee yol simply because i'm running if they are republican nomination as a conservative it is brainwashing and people not being open minded. pure and simple. >> african-americans vote democratic because they have been brainwashed. the sad truth about our politics is most herman cain supporters were probably more delighted by that statement than anything cain had to say about his ridiculous 9-9-9 tax plan. herman cain ran for president as a stunt, a book-selling, income-enhancing country. and in the process, he has now visited stress and anguish and

possibly tonight again embarrassment on his wife of 43 years, gloria cain. according to the atlanta journal constitution, public voting records show that gloria cain voted in numerous democratic primaries and runoffs since 2000, including the 2008 democratic presidential primary in georgia. that was the first time gloria cain had a chance in her lifetime to vote for a black candidate for president who she could reasonably believe was actually on his way to becoming president. gloria cain was very probably an obama voter in 2008. herman cain's criminal lawyer says that mr. cain has alerted his wife to this new accusation and discussed it with her.

every husband has something to apologize for to his wife and every wife has something to apologize for to her husband. we may never know what herman cain has had to apologize to gloria cain for this year, but saying that she was brainwashed in to voting democratic would be a good place for herman cain to begin his apologies to gloria cain. joining me now editorial writer for the "washington post" and msnbc contributor johnathon cape hart and thank you for joining me, goldie, we were all glued to the local atlanta television news broadcast this evening where these accusations unfolded. what it is like in atlanta with the local media since this is where it all broke. >> first it is incredibly quiet.

i ironically start mid career at that station almost 25 years ago. dale russell, the report who are broke the story, he's the kind of guy i would rather have the cia walking up my driveway than to see dale russell come ooen and see me. when he comes he has his facts and that's the truth of the matter. out is quiet here in atlanta. you know, at some point, and we have been saying this for a long time, herman cain was never going to be the republican nominee. he was never going to be the president of the united states and the question was, when was he going to take the midnight train home to georgia and i have to imagine he is probably checking ticket prices tonight. >> johnathon cape hart, knowing this was coming because as we saw in the atlanta tv report the reporter actually called and got on the phone with herman cain. so when herman cain hung up that phone, there must have been a very dramatic conversation with the smoking guy at the campaign headquarters where herman cain has to say, look, here's what they have got.

here's what they are going to come at me with. he was advised to go on cnn and talk to wolf blitzer about this and do a preemptory strike before the report came out. let's listen to what he said on cnn today. >> tell us about the nature of your relationship with this woman. >> friend and trying to help a friend because not having a job, et cetera, and this sort of thing. that's all there is to the relationship. and here again, i don't know what is going to be claimed in the story. it was someone who was supposed to be a friend but obviously they didn't see it as a friendship. >> when you say "friend," i'm asking awkward questions but i will ask you the questions you will be asked. was this an affair? >> no it was not. >> this was no sex? >> no. >> none? >> no. >> and if this woman says there is she is lying. >> let's see what the story will be. i don't want to get in to being pinned down on things until we see what the story will be.

>> i think we have seen what the story will be. herman cain's criminal lawyer said he is not going to answer anymore questions about it. where does the cain campaign go from here? >> i'm not sure, lawrence. at the time that herman cain was on with wolf blitzer was at the same time that fox 5 in atlanta put up its story. not the video but the kaip written story and then the statement from from len wood. while herman cain is telling wolf blitzer, i her, 13 years, just a friendship. i helped her financially. that statement, which you showed at the top of the show, says that what happens -- that it wasn't sexual hartz harassment or sexual assault. that that what happens between private adults is their business. it is as close to an admission as you will get. the lawyer and clients are not on the same page. to all of the married people out there, if you found out your

spouse was contacting someone else at 4:26 a.m. via text or cell phone, and that your spouse was giving money to that person over the course of a 13-year friendship or however long, wouldn't you be a little suspicius and down right upset? >> i have a feeling we are not going to see gloria cain out on some fox news show doing some form of defense on this one. >> i am going to imagine she wouldn't be. right now my heart goes out to gloria cain and the entire cain family because this is something that they did not ask for. for herman cain, this is nothing short of a crisis. he would believe that he could run for the president of the united states and have had a 13-year long relationship with a woman his wife did not know, who reportedly paid her rent, took her on trips and call and text

her at 4:00 a.m. in the morning that he would believe he could get away with something like that i think it is a crisis of arrogance. you have to wonder if he does pull the train home to georgia, or if he keeps moving until the last book tour is scheduled. >> johnathon, we have a call to the national restaurant association trying to find out if the national restaurant association actually paid for her tickets to these places that she says she traveled to with herman cain on business for national restaurant association. it will be interesting to see how come police it their system was in allowing this to happen and how open they will be about answering questions about that. it seems to me the cain thing was a stunt to increase his speaking fees and he was at best hoping to get to 7 or 8% in the polls just to be ahead of a few people in the polls.

if he could do that it would enhance his value and that's what this is about. he was never 0 supposed to be a front runner and get to this level of scrutiny and his family was never supposed to suffer this stuff. >> a couple of sources i talked to said around the time that herman cain rocketed to the top of the polls, i asked, is he as surprised as all of us are that he is on the top of the pols and he said yes, he is. remember when he gave that interview, the famous, okay, libya, answer. he was in wisconsin. the wisconsin primary is nowhere near iowa, new hampshire, florida, or south carolina. why was he in wisconsin? he's been going all over the place, all over the country, not running for president but on a very big book tour trying to get his name out there, and quite frankly, if things had gone better, if things had gone differently without these now five women coming forward, he could have been the black male republican version of sarah

palin, media star. >> goldie, i have to agree with you, tonight is the night your heart goes out to plin mrs. cain if it hasn't already. goldie taylor of the grio.com and johnathon capehart of the "washington post" post. thank you for joining us tonight. can the twice divorced and three times married newt gingrich get the support of right wing christian self proclaimed family values voters? and i will talk to romney supporter tim pawlenty about the romney campaign's lying television ad and the troubles of herman cain. ♪ ♪ ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh ♪ ♪ it's nice to be here ♪ it's nice to see you in my bed ♪

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♪ [ male announcer ] the citi thank you card. earn points you can use for travel on any airline, with no blackout dates. and the winner of the first big newspaper endorsement in the republican presidential campaign is newt gingrich. new hampshire's lrchest most on koerve zif newspaper. it is a state where willard m.

romney has a huge lead in the polls. we would rather back someone with whom we may sometimes disagree than one who tells us what he thinks we want to hear. newt gingrich is by no means the perfect candidate but republican primary voters too often make the mistake of preferring an unattainable ideal to the best candidate who's actually running. in this incredibly important election, that candidate is newt gingrich. that endorsement should help gingrich narrow romney's lead in new hampshire but today gingrich was doing his endorsement victory lap in south carolina where he now has a strong chance of actually beating romney. in an interview with a south carolina radio station, gingrich was asked about the union leader's statement that he is by no means the perfect candidate. >> anybody who is knot honest about it knows that no person except christ has ever been perfect. so i don't claim to be the per

effect candidate. i just claim to be a lot more conservative than mitt romney and a lot more electable than anybody else. newt gingrich is now actually being considered for a possible endorsement from the iowa-based conservative group "family leader" a group that ruled out the possibility of endorsing former liberal mitt romney. asked about gingrich's several marriages and the affairs he's conducted during those mam marriages the family leaders director of development said i have heard him speak candid di about those thing and i've been convinced he is remorseful. i'm willing to forgive and move on. this is what gingrich said at the family leader forum earlier this month about his first marriage. >> after i got married and things became more complicated. we had two wonderful daughters. although i was remarkably successful in ways. i was a phd and congressman and a lot of exciting things going

on there was a part of me that was truly hollow. i wasn't drinking but i had pre precisely the symptoms of someone collapsing under this weight and i found myself, you know, as an emerging national figure reading the big book and trying towns why i was empty and why i had to turn to god. i think had i not had that experience, had i not had that intervention i might have collapsed totally. >> the problem for gingrich in that part of his story is that after all of that, his first marriage did collapse and he went on to a second marriage during which he started an affair with the woman who was to become his third and current wife calista. >> i have been very, very fortunate, very blessed. calista and i have a wonderful marriage. all of that has required a great deal of pain.

some of which i have caused. others which i regret deeply. others have required going to god to seek reconciliation and also seek god's acceptance that i had to recognize how limited i was and how much i had to depend on him. >> joining me now is michelle goldberg a senior writer for "newsweek" and the daily beez t. thank you for joining me tonight. >> while it turns out christianity is of course a forgiving religion. that was its contribution to theology actually when it came along. that was a new idea in religion and that's what he is counting on, especially ka tholism which he joined. that's the religion where you get to confess it all and everything can be okay. >> i think he is counting on that and on a base that really, really really doesn't want to nominate mitt romney. >> not nominate romney. >> this narrative of sin and redemption he is able to plug in to.

it allows people to want to support him because they are desperate not to vote for mitt romney to convince themselves that something more than political expedieny is at stake. that they are not like the feminist that supported bill clinton that said whfr he is going on in his personal life he will support our objectives. this allows them to see their willingness to overlook his serial fill landering as noble. >> you quote this the guy who says maybe the guy in the race that will make the best president is on his third marriage. how do we reconcile that? that is it. >> he goes on to compare newt gingrich to king david, who also -- whose misdeeds were even worse and had more wives than newt gingrich but never was a great leader. if you look in the bible you can find examples of men who were incredibly morally compromised but had godly missions.

those kind of reaches that they are driven to make by the incredible thinness of the republican bench and their options. >> the christian conservative vote faces a process of elimination, like every other voter does. and frequently the american voter is choosing the lesser of two or three or four evils as is possible in a primary. and it makes sense to me that especially with romney as the alternative, a mormon, which these voters don't like the idea of, and a former liberal, it makes sense to me that romney has actually more sins in being a formal liberal than gingrich does in his marital history. >> i think it makes sense. what is strange is they have a couple other options. especially a group like the family leader. the family leader narrowed the choices down to four is asking the candidates to sign something called a marriage vow. it goes beyond just promising to

ban gay marriage. it talked about condemning the hypocrisy of those who pretend to defend traditional marriage, while ignoring adultery and marital weaknesses in their own community. the fact that newt gingrich can sign it with a straight face is astonishing and that they are considering him as a valid candidate above rick perry and michele bachmann and rick santorum shows they are more politically expedient than they like to present themselvess. >> if they are going on their values it would be santorum or bauchmann, right? >> possibly perry. it would certainly not be gingrich. i think he venn they thought, when i talked to them. even they thought it would disqualify him. >> i certainly did. >> i think everybody did. what they saw in focus groups, especially after his performance at the iowa family leader debate is their supporters even their

som soccer mom, female supporters that they thought would be hardest on him bought in to his apocalyptic rhetoric show down in the country enough to over look his family values. >> thank you for joining us. >> thank you so much. coming up, tim pawlenty is here and i will ask about mitt romney's tv ad and in the rewrite how the united states marines are adapting to the repeal of don't ask don't tell and one of the many many reasons we will miss barney frank's house in the house of representatives. ♪ [ male announcer ] how could switchgrass in argentina, change engineering in dubai, aluminum production in south africa, and the aerospace industry in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy.

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coming up, tim pawlenty is here. the man who would be at the top of the polls tonight if he hadn't dropped out in iowa them man who could be in the gingrich position. he is out but he is here. he is coming up next. ♪ ♪

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>> see it all at mitt v mitt.com. the democratic national committee is responsible for this ad. >> as of today that new ad by the dnc is running in six swing state television markets. front runner mitt romney running high on his endorsement took to the air waves today in charleston, south carolina to attack mitt romney. we think there has to be a solid conservative alternativetive to mitt romney and i think i'm the one candidate that can bring together a national security conservative and economic and social conservatives in order to make sure we have a conservative nominee. i wouldn't lie to the american people. i wouldn't switch my positions for political reasons. it is perfectly reasonable to change your position if facts change f you see new things you didn't see. everybody has done that. ronald reagan did it it is wrong to go around an adopt radically different positions, based on

your need of any one election because then people have to ask themselves what will you tell me next time? >> joining me is the former minnesota governor tim pawlenty and former presidential candidate. thank you for joining me tonight, governor. >> glad to be with you. >> as you know, i famously picked you to be by now the republican front runner by the process of elimination that i saw coming but i thought if you hung in there, the support would fall away for everyone else and you would float to the top and instead it is gingrich who has that what should be the pawlenty position. floating to the top. >> you have to let go of this, lawrence. you are obsessed. it is time to move on. i had my shot. we didn't get it done and now we are talking about my candidate, mitt romney and he is the best candidate in the field by far. >> how do you answer newt gingrich on all of this flip flopping she talking about romney which is in the video you can't deny it happened. >> first of all, the dnc ad that came out today has been discredited by fact checkers.

politifact came out and said the stimplus and health care part isn't right and accurate your own parent network, mbs released the "meet the press" full transcript that supported the interview that mitt did regarding the health care issue. if you read the whole transcript, as i did this afternoon, you will see the dnc did not play fair. mitt romney's record isn't perfect, but it's the best record of any candidate in the race. he's a conservative business person. no campaign is perfect. everyone is going to have a few clunkers in their record but mitt is the most capable, electable, most knowledgeable candidate and leader in the race. >> newt gingrich says about mitt romney, what will you tell me next time. what is the fundamental problem romney has with the republican electorate, isn't it? >> mitt romney is running against six or seven other people for the nomination. he's been the front runner or near the front of the pack in

the national polls and swing state polls. so he doesn't have a problem. he is the leading or a leading candidate in the race. as the race consolidates i think you will see him become the nominee. look at his record, cut taxes in massachusetts. cut the budget in massachusetts, got the budget balanced after inheriting a deficit, standing and striking contrast to what president obama has done running up deficits and not fixing the problem jobs or employment issues. romney stands for traditional marriage, pro life and if you go down the major issues of concern to republican voters, economic in particular, social, as well, mitt romney lines up on almost all of those issues. >> now but in the past he's been on the other side of a lot of those issues. let's look at what one bright candidate had to say in one of the republican debates about obamny care. >> obama care was patterned after mitt's plan in massachusetts and for mitt or anyone else to say there aren't substantial similarities or

essentially the same plan it isn't credible. that's why i called it obamny care and i think it is a fair label and i'm happy to call it that again tonight. >> now you are a romney supporter have he taught you how to spin that and put it in his favor. >> nbc, the transcript of the interview with tim russert that he has shown while he defends what he did in massachusetts as one state's initiative, he does not support it as a federal initiative and does not believe it should be rolled out nationally or believe it should be a national mandate and said repeatedly he will repeal obama care. >> do you agree with the candidate that said it is the same thing. that what romneyed did in massachusetts is the same thing. >> there are some differences and similarities as well. one is he doesn't want it for

the nation. he thinks each state should decide for themselves and number who he said he would repeal it and believes obama scare is a mistake for the nation. that's a good position as far as i'm concerned. >> the per ary and romney tv ad came out. which tells the worst lie? the perry lie about president obama saying that americans are lazy, which is you know a lie. what he said is the american government and state governments and city governments have been laze any trying to attract foreign investment a republican point. or the romney lie in the romney ad where he puts the words of john mccain in president obama's mouth and then cuts the tape so he doesn't show you that president obama was quoting john mccain. that is about as ugly a lie as you can possibly do with videotape, isn't it? >> romney campaign at the front when they released that ad said they were using with president

obama's mocking of the mccain campaign as a way to justify that ad. they disclosed up front, in the press release and materials that accompany the ad. >> you know it is disclosing it to reporters but the ad is intended to go out to voters who don't get to talk to stewart stevens and the handlers of romney. it is to go out to voters to say that president obama says that if we talk about the economy we lose. you know that is a lie. and that the romney campaign -- >> the point of the ad is this, lawrence. you have a president who's taken the economy in to the ditch. i called him today, when it comes to the economy, the barney five of presidents. it's not working. he's had his chance. the fact of the matter is he mocked, he mocked j john mccain for saying that. and now this was an attempt and a legitimate attempt by the romney campaign saying let's have the debate about the

economy and not duck or hide from it. let's have it. and president obama is not run wanting to run against mitt romney on this issue or any other because mitt romney has a deep successful record of growing jobs, building businesses and getting the economy ignited this the private sector not the government sector do. >> do you count on the main stream media, they refuse to use the woshd lie to describe what candidates do. so do campaigns like the romney campaign rely on the media's timidity about using the word lie when they put out an ad like that. they know the "new york times" won't won't say lie. >> if i say i have an ad and we are putting it out in a news release that this is not barack obama's words but john mccain's words we are telling you that now, would that be a lie? >> it is a lie because that's not what you are putting out on the the consumer. you are putting out to the consumer, the voter that barack obama says if i talk about the

economy i will lose. >> the point is most people are concerned about the economy. barack obama mocked john mccain's campaign about they are dealing with the economy or lack of dealing in their view. now it is time to have president obama held accountable for his record of performance on the economy. that's the point of the ad and one of the major issues in the campaign and when that is framed up between barack obama and mitt romney, i can tell you who's going to win and who's better prepared to lead the country to grow jobs and it is mitt romney, not barack obama. >> you have successfully run out the clock and i have to say your audition for the vice presidential slot on the romney ticket is going beautifully. >> i have to consider that. >> that was beautiful. >> yeah, right. >> on the endorsement thing with romney, since you endorsed him hasn't he gone down like herman cain surge after you endorsed him and now gingrich surges. is there a pawlenty curse? >> i think actually lawrence

when i endorsed him, rick perry was just getting in the raps and rick surpassed mitt at this moment in time by a substantial margin so it is the opposite. >> that's right. so the way we will tell the story is the the pawlenty endorsement killed the perry campaign. >> i think you have to let go. you have to let go and move to the future. >> governor pawlenty, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you for having me. coming up the marine common dant changes his position on the policy don't ask don't tell. that's next in the rewrite. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now. two of the most important are energy security and economic growth. north america actually has one of the largest oil reserves in the world. a large part of that is oil sands. this resource has the ability to create hundreds of thousands of jobs. at our kearl project in canada, we'll be able to produce these oil sands with the same emissions as many other oils and that's a huge breakthrough. that's good for our country's energy security

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ask your doctor if lunesta is right for you. then get lunesta for $0 at lunesta.com. there's a land of restful sleep. we can help you go there on the wings of lunesta. marine commandant amos has rewritten his position on don't ask don't tell. he opposed the repeal of don't ask, don't tell. a military survey found only 40% of marines opposed the repeal, but a majority of marines assigned to combat duty, 56%, opposed the repeal before it was repealed general amos chose to speak for the 56% of marines who opposed repeal when he testified to the senate armed services committee last december. >> on what i know about the very tough fight in afghanistan, the almost singular focus of our combat forces as they train up and demy in to theater, the necessary tightly woven cull i

chur of those combat forces that we are asking so much of at this time and finally the direct feedback from the survey, my recommendation is that we should not implement repeal at this time. >> now in an interview with the associated press just 69 days after don't ask don't tell officially ended, general amos says i'm very pleased with how it has gone. he told the ap at the annual ball in washington earlier this month, celebrating the birth of the marine corps a female marine approached his wife bonny and introduced herself and her lesbian partner. bonny looked at them and said happy birthday ball. this is great. nice to meet you. general amos added that is happening throughout the marine corps. general amos never tried to lead the marines in the right direction on don't ask, don't tell. he never tried to change the minds of the 56% of his combat marines who are uncomfortable with the possible repeal of don't ask, don't tell but other

people did and they are the heros of this story. the people who helped to teach america and helped to teach our military don't to fear gay people. one such hero was a young harvard college and law school graduate. he ran and won a seat in the state college legislature in 1972 and ran and won a seat in congress in 1980. all as a closeted gay man. in 1987, after six years in congress, he came out publicly announcing that he is gay. today the gentleman from massachusetts barney frank announced that he will not run for re-election to congress. his voice will be missed on the floor of the house and in congressional hearing rooms where no one made the case for gay members of the military more effectively than the honorable barney frank.

>> i have a question for you about the working group that secretary gates put in to effect, he appointed, the defense department working group. they recommended that a straight military personnel will have to shower with homosexuals. >> showering with a homosexual. what do you think happens in gyms all over america. what do you think happens in the house of representatives. of course people shower with homosexuals. what a silly yib. what to you think is wrong with people showering with homosexual do you think the spray makes it catching. people shower with homosexuals in college dormitories, in gyms where people play sports, in gyms elsewhere. it is a complete nonissue. >> so that recommendation you think is a nonissue? >> i think -- to accept the principle that homosexuals can't shower with other people is a degree of discrimination that goes beyond this.

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>> the man at the center of the child abuse scandal involving another university sports program was fired last night. bernie fine was terminated after a third alleged victim came forward and an audio recording surfaced in which fine's wife laurie made statements appearing to implicate her husband. the audio was on taned by espn in 2003. but the network only made it public yesterday. it came from a phone call between laurie fine and the first accuser to come forward bob by davis, who told espn he was molested starting around the age of 12 while serving as a ball boy for syracuse and staying at the fine's home. davis says the abuse went on for more than a decade. davis called laurie fine to try to get her to confirm his story

after he says police in syracuse ignored his claims because the statute of limitations had expired. the language in this phone call is graphic. >> what do you want me to do. be honest with me. >> -- so what did you think what he always does. >> first he grabbed me and touching me. >> you never had oral sex with him? >> no. >> no. >> i think he would let it. >> of course he would. why wouldn't he. i know everything that went on. i know everything that went on with him. bernie has issues. maybe he is not aware of but he has issues. you trusted somebody you shouldn't have trusted. bernie is in denial. i think he regrets the things he did but has a mental telepathy

and rerace aed them from his mind. there was something about you. >> that's what i wonder. i wonder why. >> i don't know. >> joining me now is the sports editor for the nation and author of the new book "the john carlos story, the sports moment that changed the world." thank you for joining me tonight, dave. >> thanks, lawrence. espn's role here. they say they didn't do anything with this tape when they got it in 2003 because they didn't have any kind of core rog rob ration. they didn't have other victims and they couldn't on the firm that is laurie fine's voice. as i head their account of how they handled this, they never confronted or attempted to confront in 2003 the fines, either laurie fine or her husband about what was on this tape. >> that's very true. espn is the big kahuna of sports journalism. and that means there are real questions that need to be asked

of them. they have a journalism and broadcast wing, and their connection with the big east and the ncaa is one that is very lucrative and worth millions upon millions of dollars. they will say that's the broadcast wing. the journalism wing says we didn't have a story here and we are not going to the accuse somebody of a heinous crime if we can't get somebody to corroborate this and now they are in the position of having to answer these questions. i will say the show that received the tape which is called "outside of the lines" is a show that broke stories over the years. the people in that show are journalists of the highest order but when you are espn these are questions that need to be asked presidentially in a post penn state world where these allegations are seen as frankly more than allegations but as proof in advance of trial. >> because they did once they started moving with this tape in the last couple of weeks, they did try to go to the fines and to the fine's lawyer and they got no response from the fine's lawy