middle of the atlantic ocean above the mariner seven seas cruise ship. >> no way! that's a first for any idea where they're steaming aboard the seven seas? >> middle of the atlantic. . >> no indication yet. >> it's a big ocean. >> never been on a cruise, i've always wanted to. what else you got, tower? >> kay from chicago writes i'm playing angry birds, pulled an all-nighter again, i've got three stars on all but eight games in the original a.b. -- >> no, make it stop. >> i'm perfect in rio. >> if i could quote revenge of the nerds -- "morning joe" starts right now. a you say anything to get elected. if that were the case, would i

still be defending massachusetts health care? it's by far the biggest challenge i have in the primary race. and if i were willing to say anything to get elected, wouldn't i say it was a mistake? i watch other people on the stage and they say, oh, that was a mistake. oh, someone says i did this ad on global warming, that was a mistake. they dust it aside. and that makes them more attractive in a primary. i'm standing by what i did in massachusetts. not trying to dust it aside. the biggest issue that dogs me in the primary campaign. i'm absolutely firm it was the right thing for our state. i'll defend that. and i understand it has political implications, and if it keeps me from winning a primary, so be it. >> so be it. good morning, it's wednesday, november 30th. welcome to "morning joe." look at the pretty lights. >> well, you know, they actually slaughtered it, as you know, dragged it from the natural habitat. i don't know if you know this, but trees that size, and tell your children waking up.

the tree being lit up. the tree this size actually when you chop them down, they scream. it's an audible scream. >> it's a mystery as to whether they feel it or not. >> it's a scream just the same. ge, former ge commerce tree, it's the comcast tree. and good little boys and girls all over the world that want to come to new york city and have their parents spend thousands of dollars -- >> thousands. >> on blatant commercialism and credit should come tonight. it's a special, special moment. >> oh, that's nice. >> it's american materialism. >> you know who is giving last rights? >> who? >> savannah guthrie. >> hold your children just a little bit closer, make sure they don't talk to them. all right. joining us onset, mike barnicle. and we have the executive editor

at random house jon meacham. >> we've had the past couple of days, first newt gingrich -- >> they do blur together. >> and newt romney, both talking about how they don't flip-flop. and they're steadfast. >> that's perfect. >> they are a solid rock. you know, meacham, i gave the scriptual reference of the day of building that house on a solid foundation. we're not on sand, being swept away. and these guys are saying we have had our feet in cement for years. first you have newt doing it two days ago and now mitt romney saying i just don't -- hey, we've got a politico quiz. i'm not knocking mitt. you know i like mitt. and we've been talking about how great he's doing this year. but just fess up. >> well, it's exactly right. today as i'm sure you all know and you're probably going to have the party after the

christmas tree, churchill's birthday. he changed parties three times and remember he said anyone can rat, but it takes real character to re-rat. he says, look, he changed his mind. you can say that. if you just say that, i think people -- i think what you played was a good start for romney. people change their minds all the time. >> right. >> normal swinging voter types. and so if you're just candid about it. and tell the truth. >> hmm -- >> i know it's surprising. >> i don't know, meacham, because newt gingrich was candid at that lobbying. i don't think it connects. i could be wrong. >> we'll listen to that in one second. i want to stay with mitt for one more minute. mike barnicle we both said mitt romney's done great in these debates. . you just wonder why the guy doesn't just say, hey, listen, i ran the most liberal state as a governor in the nation.

would you rather have had a liberal democrat do it or rather have me do it? that's easy, republicans. and so, yes, i had to take some positions i didn't agree with when i was up there. but we won up there and we ruled in massachusetts. thanks to me. >> he had zero options when he was governor of massachusetts, zero. i mean, it is staggering to think of the democratic majorities in the house and the senate in the massachusetts legislation. it's upwards of 90%. so his options were to pretend he was in congress and washington and do nothing, get nothing done, or actually walk down the hallway and talk to the democratic speaker of the house, the democratic president in the senate, and try to get a minimal bunch of things done. that's what he chose to do. >> there is a difference between changing your mind on one thing, which is okay, politicians have done it from the beginning of time. there's the impression out there that he says things to different

groups in order to win their approval. when he's talking about guns, he said, well, remember he said four years ago, i used to sho shoot -- but there is a sense he tells different people different things. >> and we talked about this yesterday, in 1992, i was democrat but i was pro life and pro-nra, in 1997 i was a congressman, same thing. you can go through the years. i was a small-government conservative, that is what i focused on like a laser, and if you go back and see what i wrote in '93 and compare it to today, it's identical. maybe that means i haven't grown enough, and maybe you can grow in certain ways, but what i don't understand, jon, and you've studied presidents and politicia politicians, i don't understand how a man in his 50s is pro-choice -- >> oh, he's both.

>> well, he was pro-choice and believed that women deserved the right to choose what they were going to do. and also said i'm not with the nra, and also bragged about not being with reagan. >> right. >> and then a decade later suddenly he loves reagan, is pro-nra. and again, i'm not picking on mitt romney, i'm just wondering who is able to do this intellectually in their 50s and 60s? >> well, ronald reagan did. >> well, not really. >> he was a liberal in 1948, his phrase. >> hold on a second, though. >> and then 12 years later, he went through the '50s, the ge experience, he watched the new deal, watched eisenhower ratify the new deal, he watched the cold war, and he changed his mind. >> you -- >> in 40 -- >> he was in his 40s. i think he was in his lower 40s.

>> he was born in 1911. >> so he was in his 30s, actually. he was in his 30s, but anybody that knows reagan knows that he had reams and reams of notebook paper where he went around and just constantly wrote what he believed. and you could see reagan's philosophy laid out there. there was nothing opportunistic about reagan. >> nothing opportunistic. but it was a change. what i mean is if romney's got the cards, if he's got the notebooks, if he wants to argue that he thought this stuff through in the last five, six years, that's that whole different thing. i think reagan is not the right excuse here for people to flip-flop and change, i think there was a genuine conversion. and one where he kept the soul of a negotiator. >> reagan? >> reagan, right. he kept the soul of a negotiator. i think this -- the reason this feels opportunistic or the

manifestation of it is why newt gingrich is challenging the guy. i mean, let's be clear. people aren't buying it. and so romney's either got to explain exactly the level of core views that he changed that you just mentioned and really talk about it or he's going to keep having newt gingrich chase him one week and then -- >> and somebody else the next. >> and somebody else -- >> newt gingrich has flip-fl flip-flopped. >> people aren't buying it. >> let's go to some news. but mitt romney and newt gingrich both have flip-flopped just as much. and that's what makes it so fascinating right now. >> and the chase continues and the latest poll shows mitt romney leading the gop field in new hampshire with 34% before it. newt gingrich is just 20 points behind him, ron paul and jon huntsman round out the top four in the granite state. huntsman at double digits with 11%. maybe. >> dan senor. >> newt ten points back there.

he's up from where he was. >> yeah. i don't think newt's going to have the big impact in new hampshire. i think he's going to have a huge impact in south carolina if he doesn't blow up the way herman cain blew up. that's a big if with newt because newt usually can't stand success. >> well, he likes to talk about his success when he's making a point. let's move on to this. the latest american research group poll shows gingrich topping the field in south carolina with 33% support, that's up 25 points since october. romney's in second place in the state there with 22%, dropping three points since last month. as newt gingrich rises in the polls, there is growing scrutiny into his work after he left congress. he maintains -- >> he's a lobbyist. he made -- would he make $100 million? >> no, he said roughly $100 million. >> he's a historian. >> well. >> but he also talked to government groups in which the "new york times" story today

introducing clients to a conversation, but that -- >> but you can buy direct contact with newt. >> in other words. >> one-on-one. >> he sold access, he sold access. and he made $100 million doing it. but anyway, but newt defended himself last night saying i was never a lobbyist. >> right. >> what was his justification? >> well, the "new york times" digs into his dealings. there's a front page article there. the "times" reports that through his health care consultant fee, the former house speaker made millions of dollars helping companies promote their services while gaining access to government officials. >> that's not them. >> no. >> that's not lobby, that's just bribery? what would you call it? >> capitalism. >> anyway. so how does newt defend this to south carolina voters? >> well, he says that he didn't need the money. >> what do you mean? >> well, he didn't need it. why would he lobby? >> i heard he was broke. >> no, he was at a campaign event the other day and he said, let me be blunt, i didn't need

the money. >> i did no lobbying of any kind period. for a practical reason. i'm going to be really direct, okay. i was charging $60,000 a speech. and the number of speeches was going up, not down. normally we gradually sell fewer every year. >> so newt's justification to the good people of south carolina was i was so rich making $65,000 for 30-minute speeches, making more money in a 30-minute speech because of the access i could grant people that school teachers make in an entire year in south carolina. an elementary teacher in south carolina will make $48,000 for 12 month's work. truck drivers make $30,000 in south carolina for an entire

year's work. so newt's defense to the good people of south carolina is i was so rich selling access, making a 30-minute speech and getting $65,000 that i made twice as much money as you made, truck driver, in an entire year. why would i need to be a lobbyist? all i really did was grant access and make $100 million. is that -- i'm not listed -- here's the deal, i just fell into this job, i'm not new in politics, i am new in politics, i don't get it. is a smart thing to tell people in south carolina that i -- that i'm so rich i make $65,000 a speech for a 30-minute speech because of my government -- former government work? and so -- >> well, you don't need to look at me as a lobbyist? >> in addition to all of that, you also have in that clip the former speaker of the house calling himself a much sought after celebrity. >> did he call himself that?

>> he called himself a celebrity. >> oh, my god, cashing in. >> this is going to be so much fun. his rise in the polls and his constant appearances now. because of his rise in the polls, given his history, is going to so embolden him, he's going after the tracks. >> it's like watching shakespeare and expecting a different end to "hamlet." >> the creation of this. >> i was. >> and one of the things that i think links all this, romney and gingrich is -- and mike allen's here to talk about this character-driven book we did with "politico," character will out. the problems of the presidency are the problems that people pointed out about obama at the time. a little aloof, a little isolated, hadn't been the rough and tumble politics for very

long. >> a little isolated? >> we have now with gingrich, we have a lack of self-awareness. with romney, you have someone who is so eager to please. if he gets to be president, i promise "x" numbers of days and weeks into the presidency, it's going to be, well, he seems to be trying to please too many people. >> yeah. the past always prolongs when it comes to presidents with character. and with newt gingrich, you've got a guy -- he's passing on a narrative that just doesn't work. americans know. i don't know if he thinks south carolinians are stupid. i can tell you i know them very well. they are smart people. you go down there and you tell them, oh, i didn't lobby, i just got paid $100 million for granting access. and by the way, don't call me a lobbyist because i'm so rich and i'm such a celebrity that i made more in 30 minutes talking than you will make in an entire year.

>> i can't believe -- >> we shouldn't be surprised. i don't think anyone around the table is surprised to know anyone has made money speaking. >> it happens all the time. but -- >> out on the campaign trail when you're in south carolina, it's probably not best to brag about something like that. >> why did he do that? $65,000 -- >> but the evidence is out there for the public to see that he was, in fact, a lobbyist. there's no getting around it. it's there. >> he's gaining access. you know, he is going into bill clinton mode where he's playing with words, playing with semantics, and for the guy that acted so offended about bill clinton talking about not knowing what the meaning of is is, he's doing the same thing with his tortured definition of lobbying which, again, made him $100 million. $100 million. there's this revolving door in washington, d.c., and we're

usually offended if somebody makes $1 million or $2 million because of the revolving door in washington, d.c. newt made $100 million in that revolving door from government to lobbying to selling access, to speeches. and now he's claiming, oh, no, i didn't. >> there's another element to newt that the media -- we in the media are eventually going to get to. he arrived in washington, d.c. in congress in 1978. the speaker of the house, tip o'neill was a rock solid democrat. he was also a very gentle guy. newt gingrich was the only guy i ever heard tip o'neill use the word hate when he referred to a member of congress. he hated him and blamed him for what happened when what led to the complete polarization in washington. because tip used to say in newt's world it wasn't enough to

defeat the democrat that you were running against or the democrats that you were debating on the floor of the house, you had to demonize them. and the demonization and tip o'neill blamed the demonization of politics on newt gingrich. >> any more news, mika before we go to break? >> there's tons. i'll give you the latest on president obama's aapproval ratings. yesterday's gallup daily tracking poll showed the president's approval at just 43%. gallup notes it's below jimmy carter's standings at this point in his presidency. at this stage of his term. among independents, president obama's approval has dropped to 30%, dropping ten points since january. we will talk about that. >> jon meacham, really quickly. this is historic. >> yeah. >> historically low approval ratings, and you look at him inside the white house right now, i would say he is more isolated than any president in modern american history.

most of his staff have left, and he's basically in there with one or two people, some have suggested that david is acting as president of the united states because he's running a campaign. everybody else is scattered. >> his supporters like to say he's really good in near-death experiences. well, we'll see. >> the rate the republicans are going, he's still going to win, which is kind of interesting. >> i would have to say, mike barnicle, you can't say that. you look at these numbers, historically low numbers. >> i can't see. >> this is a race to the bottom. what it may mean is that an independent may still have a chance to win. >> that could be. >> the president's at 43% approval rating. i'm surprised at that. >> come on, now. >> i'm surprised it's that high. >> we'll talk to valerie. >> coming up next, "politico."

>> he's totally isolated inside the white house. totally isolated, it's frightening how few people are around this guy. >> who started with him. >> who started with him. and they said early on, we're not making new friends. they did. did they not say that? we're not making new friends. well, they're succeeding if you look at the poll numbers. what do we got next? >> up next, "politico's" first ebook. we'll talk to mike allen in the studio. >> whoa. >> about the first installment of "the right fights back." that's next. and later, senator tom coburn and valerie jarrett join us to discuss a heated debate over whether to extend payroll tax cuts. >> we love them. but first, here's todd santos with a check on the forecast. todd? >> very good morning to you. and again, across the northeast today with a system that's starting to exit the area. still dealing with showers mainly up toward portland.

that's made its way out of boston. good news for travelers in boston. chicago, the winds have settled down after the flights canceled yesterday. cool temperatures in place, places like boston, that's about your daytime high as far as today's concerned. may be able to squeak out a few extra degrees as we get more sunshine in the forecast. buffalo, increasing chance for a few snow flakes, and in the west, cool temperatures through central michigan. starting to wait for some of those snowfall totals, likely see the numbers of 6, maybe a few upwards of 10 inches. more "morning joe" after this. we're america's natural gas

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oh, lord. 27 past the hour. there are some days you just want to erase from your memory. time now to look at the morning papers. "washington post" says vice president biden made a surprise visit to iraq yesterday to mark the start of a new chapter in the relationship between baghdad

and washington. the visit comes as the u.s. military accelerates efforts to meet the year end withdraw deadline. and the "new york times" says line for free lunches in american schools is growing longer, of course. the direct result of the continued economic crisis. millions of students who were once middle class are now for the first time eligible for subsidized lunches. the hardships that their families are facing, including job loss and housing foreclosure. listen to this, some 21 million students, 21 million students in america receive subsidized school lunches last year. that is up almost 20%. from just five years ago. the new york daily news, elvis costello has taken the unusual step of telling fans not to purchase his soon to be released -- >> i'm not sure what that's about. >> because it's too expensive. on his website, costello says the $300 price tag appears to be

either a misprint, and his efforts to lower it were unsuccessful. costello recommends buying -- >> i love it. >> i'm going to do it. i'm going to do it. so willie, i've got this ibook here. and if you look at my ibook. i've got all the standards there. i'm a huge faulkner fan. "game change," you know, roosevelt bios, everything. but you know what? look what's right there. "the right fights back." it just opened. this is amazing. it's like -- it's almost like teddy white is alive and he's -- by the way i've got teddy white all over my ibooks too. >> we've got publishing history in the making. the chief white house correspondent for "politico," is

of course, mike allen. he's the co-author of "the right fights back." and he's here with us in new york. >> in the studio. >> tell us about the book. what's the deal? >> well, there's one problem. how do you get jon meacham to autograph an ebook. >> i guess you just print it out. >> this is a new concept, though, talk about it. it's very important. you know, we're used to getting the teddy white books every four years, game change every four years. you guys are doing things in realtime. >> yeah. there's an interview, great interview with newt gingrich in this book that we did two weeks ago. and through the magic of random house and jon meacham, it's now in this thing. the idea of this was people just tuning into the race or people like ourselves and your viewers who are getting every twist and turn will like the idea of hitting pause on the crazy news

cycles. stop the news cyclone. and we did this -- >> you get a bird's eye view. a better perspective. >> and we sat down. every word in this book is from sitting down, talking eye-to-eye, person-to-person with someone and asking them to tell their stories, asking them tough questions with no time limits, nobody interrupting them. >> forgive me for driving this, but i want to know what makes this so important. "game change," for instance, had that lot of great information that heilemann and haleprin got in realtime. but they got the great information because they said we're going to hold this for a year, year and a half. you have a deal now where you get access -- did you -- you're not going to read in the "new york times" or "washington post" or anywhere because you say we're going to hold it for two or three months, right? >> and what we found was we could do -- what it takes was the classic. but what this book does what they're like, we find out behind the scenes what really makes these candidates tick. and also, what it's like.

we sat down with these candidates and said tim pawlenty and evan thomas' dining room table and said there's only a couple of people in the world who know what this is like, who know what it's like to live in a hilton garden inn, to have john king yelling at you, us chasing you, what is it really like? and they told us with surprising candor. >> this will have four installments over the course of the campaign. this is the first one. big headline out of this. you talk a lot about mitt romney and the way he's changed since 2008, which we talk about on the show all the time. a much-improved candidate. what did he say about the way he feels four years later? >> willie, what we found was when they were planning the campaign, they thought it would only be feasible if they had a couple of conditions. and one of them was that mitt could not be the focus of it. they recognized that he was never going to be the most charismatic guy. >> who didn't want mitt to be the focus? >> his own staff. they needed a multi-candidate feel. >> that's not a good sign. >> listen, we've got a movie

coming out, and let's focus on how much the other movies suck, maybe we'll get some people together at the box office. >> that's weird. >> and related to that, they said it has to be about jobs. if this race was not about jobs two years ago, they decided that mitt romney would lose, that would be his own -- >> they're dead right on that one. >> he's a better candidate, though. take away the message, which is more about obama than mitt romney, he's a much better candidate sometimes. >> and they told us the one thing about it was -- they said his problem in '08 was he started out way too cocky and ended up gun shy. he never found his groove. this time he started in a place where he said the main thing you need to know about running for president and you all have seen it out there in iowa and new hampshire, you have to be willing to be humiliated. whether you're calling donors begging staff, dealing with us. if you wake up every day and know you're going to be

humiliated, walk out of it that way, that you can take it. >> wow. >> and you know, i've got to say seriously as a politician, you do, when you go out there if you're like okay, i'm going to go out there and i'm going to sit there and shake hands and have people yell at me and just work through it. >> take it. >> take it. >> you can take it. but the first time you run for president, i'm looking at jon huntsman, his announcement was shaky. >> yeah. >> first debate, looked like his hands were shaking. you see him in town hall meetings now. he's not an ambassador anymore, he's a politician. >> what this book shows and with mitt and everything else, when you run for president just like mike said, it takes you inside there to say this is -- there is no clash you can take on this. you are thrown into the shark pool and you either learn how to swim fast or you're going to get devoured. >> the pawlenty interior monologue is fascinating.

it's him saying here are the seven things my handlers told me to say while i'm acknowledging the questioner in the audience deciding whether to say obama-ney care and all of these voices in his head. and you have it physically draining, intellectually, you don't have time to put capital in, it's all going out. and also the intensity, i think magnifies the vices and virtues. >> you know, we saw with tim, a guy we really loved, tim pawlenty, he came on two times in a row and just did terribly. one time i asked him five times if he was glad olympia snowe was a republican and he couldn't answer it. and it was embarrassing. and the second time, i think we talked about death panels, and you could tell he was listening to the five or six voices in his head that people were telling him instead of the one that made tim pawlenty a great governor. tim pawlenty. >> you said it was like a golfer

with too many tips all at once. and in that split second trying to think of all of those things that jon listed. >> nice job. stay with us. we're going to keep you right here. the book is "the right fights back." mike's staying with us, you can get it at ibooks. >> i already did. >> nook, kindle, ipad, ipod. >> if you don't have those, we'll have -- >> coming up next, we've got a lot of stuff going on. rick perry, willie, encourages everyone over 21 and older to vote on november 12th of next year. and why not? a couple things are wrong with that statement. the latest, can't-miss rick perry clip coming up. and the latest news on the red sox coming up on "morning joe." what is that? it's you!

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red sox fans, the boston red sox have enlisted bobby v. to be the team's new manager. the former mets and rangers skipper spent six years in new york with the mets.

he led the team to a world series appearance in 2000 where they were waxed by the yankees. the red sox are expected to make the formal announcement in the coming days. boston let go terry francona after the meltdown where the team blew a nine-game lead in september and eliminated from the playoffs on the last day of the season. you know the boston area, the sports team, how did this come to be? >> well, i think in the wake of francona leaving the job. tito was the greatest manager in the history of the boston red sox. they needed someone more forceful within the clubhouse. bobby's very colorful, he knows how to handle the media. >> he's not going to allow drinking and fried chicken eating in the dugout. >> that never happened. >> whatever. seriously, if you want to watch last season to make you feel better, fine, whitewash it, they were eating fried chicken and playing bocce ball. >> remember, they were playing

cards in the clubhouse during the playoffs. >> yeah. so he's going to straighten things out. >> it's going to be fun. >> what do you think, willie? >> i think he was great on tv and he'll be great -- i'm glad he's back in the game. my favorite bobby v. moment, 1999 after he was ejected from a game, came back into the dugout with a disguise. he was fined $5,000 and suspended for three games for wearing the disguise. >> i love it. i love it. >> boston will be great. coming up next, mika's must-read opinion pages. keep it on "morning joe." ♪

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beautiful shot -- >> look how gorgeous that is. >> look at washington, d.c. >> holy cow. >> fresh morning.

all right. time to take a look at the must-read opinion pages. we're going to start with erick erickson. the most volatile republican race in decades is actually well settled. the washington gop establishment may have fallen for mitt romney, but they are both foolish and naive to think they can beat something with nothing. mitt romney is, in fact, a great big nothing. malleable into any shape you want. that's a problem nationally, but it's also a problem down ballot with coat tails. the race for the gop nomination is well settled this point, it's settled in not romney's favor. the reason the race is so volatile is not romney is not on the ballot making romney nomination not just possible but probable. and that was the point i was making at the end of the -- of the first block of the show. then we had to go to break. but i think this is good news for president obama. no matter what his approval

ratings are. >> mike allen, erick erickson nails it here. you have had pro-romney and not romney voters. not romney voters have led to a spike for sarah palin, for donald trump, for michele bachmann, for herman cain, a spike for rick perry. now a spike -- yeah, for chris christie, now a spike for newt gingrich. how long that will last, who knows. but conservatives are so desperate to not have to nominate mitt romney. that as erick erickson says, they may just have -- it just may end up nominating mitt romney. >> exactly. their machine is built to last. they're built for a long race, they like the idea of a long race because they don't think anyone else will have the staying power. and so when they conceived this campaign, it's much leaner than last time, fewer staff, fewer

consultant and saving it all for ads. they're not going to make the mistake that hillary clinton did and focusing only on early states. they had the obama strategy of they're focusing on the states in february, march, and they know gingrich doesn't have that kind of machine. what newt will tell you is, there's a new way to run for president. and in this interview with us for our ebook, he said his new insurgent campaign, he said this is like watching mcdonald's watching sam walton and then walmart. you've seen the speaker's grandiosity before. >> here's the only problem, that would've worked four years ago. and we all know why. four years ago, the campaign was so front-loaded that if you're new and you win iowa and south carolina and come in third, let's say, in florida or even second, everything's so front-loaded. you take a couple of winner-take-all states new york and texas, you're over the top like mccain.

but this year, as you said, it's going to take a long, long time. and by the way, these campaigns like newt's, they may get all the buzz up front, but mitt romney is -- this is a marathon this year. >> well -- >> because they've changed the rules. and there's only one guy that's been practicing running -- what is it? 26.2 miles, and that's mitt. >> on the marriott track. but even after the republican race, as soon as you get the nomination, you hit the obama machine. he is going to have more organizers in particular states than the republican will have in the whole country. >> what happens -- what happens to romney's extended theory that he can still be alive financially in march or april if he moves in iowa and new hampshire? >> he's not worried about finances because in that little lag between the time someone gets the nomination and the republican nominee machine gets going, that's when american cross roads jumps in.

we have an amazing -- >> who are they vying for? mitt romney? >> they're going to spend hundreds of thousands, millions on whoever is the republican nominee. >> is carl rove agnostic as to who wins the nomination? >> i'm sure he's not. and he thought that tim pawlenty would be good. the romney campaign we learned through this book has feared tim pawlenty more than anyone. they thought if he could get out of iowa, he could be new hampshire, he was someone, he was bland enough, the generic republican numbers. generic republican crushes obama. tim pawlenty is generic republican. charlie cook calls him the placebo. >> mike allen. thank you, your ebook once again, "the right fights back." i can't wait to read that. i'm downloading it. next, willie's news you can't use. we're back in a moment. [ male announcer ] xbox 360 with kinect,

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is it time? >> it's time. >> yeah. >> we haven't talked much about rick perry this morning. and i feel bad about that. >> me too. >> he's up in new hampshire. >> sure. >> he's trying to get out the

vote. >> working hard. >> he wants the young people to vote. >> not too young. couple important things to remember here, the voting age in the united states of america, 18 years old, has been since 1971. also, election day, 2012, november 6th. >> do you think we're stupid? we know that. here's rick perry yesterday in new hampshire. >> and the fact is, those of you that are sitting in this hall who are going to inherit this country, we're counting on. those of you that will be 21 by november the 12th, i ask for your support and your vote. those of you who won't be, just work hard because you're going to inherit this. and you're counting on us getting this right. >> he wants those 21 and older to go out november 12th, the monday after election. >> you will inherit the win in three years when -- >> he just doesn't think -- >> that three-year window -- >> maybe he's saying, listen,

you can -- i don't know what he's saying. >> he gets in trouble when he talks in front of a microphone in new hampshire. >> that's a problem when you have a candidate. what do you do with a candidate? >> we've had this actually on our show, the fire alarm system in this building, it comes on -- and it's not just the alarm and the flashing lights. >> he's always pulling -- >> it's also this guy talking. evacuate the building. automated voice. so last night, brian williams was on the nightly news, it wasn't just for a brief moment, it was throughout the 30-minute broadcast. >> we shouldn't have smoked. >> for all the bankruptcies we've covered in this grim u.s. economy, this one gets your attention. you'll forgive us, we have a fire alarm announcement going on here in the studio. we have an announcement going on here in the studio, tom costello, we should advise our

viewers, there's no danger to us. we'd love to make this stop. why don't you take it from our washington bureau. andrea, thanks, that fire alarm has been given the all clear, it's back on. bear with us here. thanks for bearing with us here and our difficult fire alarm problem. as we continue to deal with the fire alarm that is stuck, we press on nonetheless with tonight's broadcast. because we are still dealing with this fire alarm problem in new york, we're going to go back down to andrea mitchell in our washington bureau. andrea mitchell in our washington bureau during a rare moment of fire alarm tranquility in new york. thank you for being here with us and those of you who stayed here with us. i'm brian williams. >> oh. >> oh, my lord. >> somebody just takes a bat and -- >> how hard is that? rip the aas out. >> nobody better. >> the fire department -- >> he was, indeed. >> what's coming up, willie? >> senator tom coburn and valley

jarrett going to join us, tina brown joins the conversation. keep it on "morning joe." nyquil: you know i relieve coughs, sneezing, fevers? tylenol: me, too. and nasal congestion. nyquil:what? tissue box (whispering): he said nasal congestion... nyquil: i heard him. anncr vo: tylenol cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion... nyquil cold & flu doesn't.

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[ male announcer ] at northrop grumman, every innovation, every solution, comes together for a single purpose -- to make the world a safer place. that's the value of performance. northrop grumman. a single mother from atlanta says she had a 13-yearlong affair with a married republican candidate. >> because of this, the former godfather's pizza ceo is

considering the unthinkable. cain says he's going to spend a few days off reassessing his candidacy. we could lose him. herman, don't you leave this election. i'm saying this not just as a supporter, but as a broadcaster, i need you in the race. don't leave me with him. he brings board games. >> welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour, mike barnicle and jon meacham still with us. joining the table, the editor in chief of "newsweek" magazine and "the daily beat," tina brown. >> we have a lot of news to get to. new hampshire polls, barack obama polls. historically low according to gallup. >> yeah, we should talk about that. >> lowest in modern history. we need to talk about that. we also, of course, have newt gingrich talking about why he wasn't a lobbyist when he made

$100 million as a lobbyist. a lot of fascinating things to get to. why don't we start with the new hampshire polls? >> that's the latest rasmussen poll. newt gingrich just ten points behind mitt romney, ron paul, and jon huntsman round out the top four. >> and mika, let's take a look at these numbers. what's so fascinating about the numbers, you could -- that second space -- it's like family feud. you know, you have those tiles that constantly change. you could go back a month ago and that number would've been herman cain. >> right. >> and a month before that, that number would have been rick perry. in fact, rick perry led in new hampshire two months ago. you could have gone back a month before that and that newt gingrich position would be occupied by michele bachmann who after the iowa straw poll was in second place in new hampshire.

before that, it would have been donald trump, before that, it would have been sarah palin. it is -- i'm not saying that newt's going to rise and fall, i'm just saying -- and as i've said before, second place in the gop field is every bit as transitional position as being the number three in al qaeda. you just don't stay there very long. >> there have been consistent -- but literally in herman cain flaming out now with his reassessment of what he'll do moving forward given the latest scandal that's come up with him. and then we heard rick perry last hour talking about the voting age. >> the voting age. >> this is not helping. >> in south carolina, newt gingrich is moving ahead. if gingrich can keep it together and not shoot himself in the foot, which he always does. >> right. >> he's really moving ahead in south carolina right now. >> well, he might have already done that. the latest american research group poll shows gingrich topping the field in south carolina with 33% support. that's pretty good.

>> that is very good. >> that's up 25 points since october. romney's in second place in the state with 22% dropping three points since last month. so as newt gingrich rises in the polls, there's growing scrutiny into his work after he left congress. now, gingrich maintains he was not a lobbyist even as new reports like this one in the "new york times" dig into his dealings. the times reports that through his health care consultaing, he made millions of dollars helping companies gain access to government officials. >> and that's health care, he made like $30 million plus, fannie and freddie, he made millions and millions of dollars on that, ethanol, he was paid over $300,000 to go out and say that ethanol was good for national security and good for our economy. over and over again. the people of south carolina and the people of america are not stupid. this is -- newt's going to have to come forward and tell the truth. he's going to have to stop

telling us what the meaning of is is and what it is not. people do not pay in washington, d.c. smart people do not pay you $100 million to not gain favors, to not gain access, and newt gingrich knows that, and so do americans. >> well, and you said maybe if he doesn't shoot himself in the foot, he'll still do well. and i wonder if this is him shooting himself in the foot speaking at a campaign event in south carolina yesterday, gingrich said he simply didn't need the money. >> the $100 million? >> doesn't need it. no. he didn't need the money badly enough to become a lobbyist. >> i did no lobbying of any kind period. for a practical reason. i'm going to be really direct, okay. i was charging $60,000 a speech. and the number of speeches was going up, not down. normally celebrities leave and they gradually sell fewer speeches every year, we were selling more. >> because he was a celebrity.

>> normally celebrities leave. >> i love selling speeches too. >> he called himself a celebrity. so newt gingrich makes $60,000. here's what's so fascinating. mike we talked about this before. if you look at the average wages of people in south carolina where he's speaking, newt gingrich said he made $60,000. for basically a 30-minute speech. if you go to south carolina, you can see that in 30 minutes, newt gingrich cashing in on his access in washington, d.c. and speaking to special interest groups that want to hear him speak per 30-minute speech. newt gingrich earned twice as much as a truck driver in south carolina makes all year working night and day driving trucks all around. in one 30-minute speech, newt gingrich cashing in on his access made $12,000 more in 30 minutes of speaking before special interest groups than an

elementary schoolteacher made the entire year in south carolina. a registered nurse. think about how hard registered nurses work, mike. year round, newt gingrich, because he's a celebrity. and he gives a 30-minute speech and makes $60,000. he's making more than a registered nurse makes all year cleaning bedpans, going room to room, doing difficult -- and you could go on, administrative assistant. i mean, this is bragging about making $60,000 a speech because you're a "celebrity" when actually what you're doing is you're part of a corrupt process, a revolving door process where you go from being speaker, giving people accesses as the "new york times" says, giving speeches in front of special interest groups, making $100 million. >> well -- >> that's rough sledding. >> there's no doubt that the former speaker has been selling access and influence for a long time. but that clip if we could replay it again i think gets to

something else. and it's the cosmetics of campaigning today in american life. and there is an arrogance to that clip with the sweep of the hand, and let me tell you why. if we could show it again and watch it and think of -- >> no lobbying of any kind, period, for a practical reason, i'm going to be really direct, okay. i was charging $60,000 a speech, and the number of speeches was going up, not down. normally celebrities leave and they gradually sell fewer speeches every year. we were selling more. >> he's that celebrity. >> the sort of moral lacqukty o it too. it was that kind of mentality. the only thing i will say is we are down to the last wire of this game of survival, really. and in the end, of course, you would think that his moment in the sun would be ten minutes,

but there aren't much left and you never meet a person at any aspect of life who ever says i am so for that guy mitt romney. romney, my guy. >> we've never met one. never met one. >> never heard from one. and we're down to the last, you know, the last guy, the last guy sitting on the wall as it were before the final play here. >> do you not think, though, that part of that might be that the way we have covered the republican primaries, the media, collective media, we've covered it as if it's like a circus, a bunch of clowns -- >> a reality show. a reality show. >> and huntsman is blocked out as a result, we're focused on herman cain, stuff like that? >> i think at the end of the day, voters get serious, they always have. >> yeah. >> and i think at the end of the day, that's why when dan senor was on and said huntsman's in single digits. no, at the end of the day, the voters will choose between mitt romney and jon huntsman and ron paul will get his 15% or so.

and -- and newt gingrich will -- the former speaker. but at the end of the day, the voters get serious. and we see huntsman start to go up, and that's going to continue. >> but the short memory is such that. you're even seeing the evangelicals, we have an interesting piece by michelle goldberg this week about how the evangelical vote now is warming up to newt gingrich because they're now saying he's being marketed now. as a repenting sinner. somebody whose background that would've discounted him in terms of running out on a wife who had cancer and -- the incredible sort of it all, you know, he he's -- they're saying repenting is part of the mission. >> there was a reaction from evangelical leaders in iowa yesterday to that article who

basically said to the top, evangelical leader out there, no, no you're not. >> well, given the field, you know. given the field. >> well, i think so. but this goes against a backdrop, mika, of barack obama's numbers. going to historic lows for a modern president. >> you would think the party would see this as a moment of historic opportunity. president obama's approval rating had hit an all-time low, but not just any all-time low. yesterday's gallup daily tracking poll showed the president's approval at just 43%, the number is below jimmy carter's standing at this point in his presidency, earning mr. obama the worst job approval rating of any president in modern political history at this stage of their term. among independents, president obama's approval has dropped to 30%, dropping ten points since january. >> jon meacham, what's going on? >> well, i think the -- the economy has frozen obama where

he is. it's very hard to see how that changes with any repetition. if i were betting today, i would say romney's going to be the nominee. i would think at this point, i think to mike's point about the press and if i were romney, i would really, really be focused on the first 30 days. it's not even 100 days anymore. because remember, four years is the new eight years, or whatever that phrase is, feels like obama's been in there for a long g to do about things like the school lunches and the sense of american about, right, governor, what are you really going to do? it can't just be there's no

leadership. you know, it either has to be a more specific kind of agenda -- not just to run not just make a voters point. these things, global economy, it moves so fast. you've got to put places in quickly because as we know in politics, you get about 40 minutes, right? you get a couple of months where congress might make a hard vote. come summer, that first year, they're not. and then you get another couple of months after the midterm. >> right. >> and then they're not going to do it. as a matter of responsibility, i think we have to say, all right, if you have a pro-growth agenda, what is it and let's see it now. and it's not just -- >> and, and, mike barnicle, obously, can you get the votes for your progrowth agenda? is it something you'll be able get enough republicans and democrats together be able to pass? >> you know, this is the most unusual time in american politics that i can recall. it's almost as if the country is going through a collective crisis of confidence.

streets are littered with anxious, fearful people. for the first time in many people's lives, they're unsure of what's going to happen with their children's futures. never a good sign for an incumbent president. people like this president, i think, but they're questioning whether or not he's up to the job. now, the republicans, you know, whether mitt romney's conservative enough for them or not, mitt romney is the one republican who apparently has the ability to talk about the economy. >> yes. >> in terms that are believable and credible. much more so than the other candidates itappears. it gets back to what we said an hour or so, joe. i am surprised that the president is at 43%. i'm surprised it's not lower given the mood. >> what has happened to this president, the president from hope and change? what has happened? >> well, it's so interesng. i think that obama doesn't like his job, actually, either. i think that he is genuinely disposition in the sense i think he's interested in chewing over

the pros and cons of any issue. but he doesn't like, he doesn't like power. he doesn't know how to exercise power. and i think knowing how to exercise power is absolutely crucial. he doesn't understand how to underpin his ideas with the political, you know, gritty, granular business of getting it done. and that kind of gaffe has just widened and widened and widened. so every time there's a moment, a window where you can jump in, like something with a simpson bowles, he doesn't do it. he hangs back at crucial moments where you have to dive through that window. >> and regardless of your ideology is safe to say lbj, he is not, bill clinton, he is not. when it just comes to understanding how to make washington work. >> well, it appears off of what tina said, what you just said, it appears you can make a case that barack obama doesn't like politics. >> right. absolutely. >> who would today? i mean, i think -- >> well, you know what -- come on, if you don't like medicine, don't be a doctor.

if you don't like politics, don't put yourself out there to run the free world, mika. >> politics today. >> stop the apologizing. >> i'm not apologizing. >> you're apologizing. you know what? he is running the free world, he better know a lot of people love politics. bill clinton loves politics. fdr, loved politics. ronald reagan, loved politics. great leaders love what they do. >> isn't it really also about the other work of politics is just doing what it takes to get it done. one of the things that's interesting about obama and i think he does believe in this, that his idea as being a transformative figure who can cross many persuasions and orientations and aisles, and yet when it has taken to reaching out and really bringing that in and trying, i don't think that he really does. >> he doesn't do that. he doesn't do that. >> the analogy of 1979 is

something we should explore a little more for all of the obvious reasons. a tech nocratic president who thinks he's above it all. and slightly unsettled republican field, sounds familiar. >> it does sound familiar. coming up next, we'll be talking to white house senior adviser valerie jarrett, she's going to tell us why she and everyone else in the white house love their jobs. and what's the president's strategy coming up over taxes. and also, senator tom coburn joining the conversation. we always love talking to him. remember when we asked him about the approval rating in congress and he said i'd like to know who the 20% are. we're going to follow up with him. tom coburn next. [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation, so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories. a new belt.

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the problem is the political

elite in this country is failing to make the adjustments that we have to make or we're going to end up like greece, portugal, spain, italy, and ultimately france. we have taken a stupid pill. and now we sit bankrupt, we're fiscally bankrupt and physically bankrupt at this moment, except we just haven't recognized it. and what is happening in europe is going to happen to us in less than a year. >> oh, that's a little scary. but it's potentially true. joining us now from washington, republican senator from oklahoma, senator tom coburn. senator, it's great to have you. >> great to have you on the show. >> is there any sign that the stupid pill is wearing off. >> i don't think so. i think, you know, the country is in such precarious shape that we need to take it and put a new set of people to solve the problem.

and i'm talking about both parties. it is so frustrating being here. you know, yesterday, i tried to get an amendment up. we spend $51,000 per student on military bases, 16 bases in this country. 250% more than the worst school district in the country washington, d.c. we spend 2 1/2 times as much. and i tried to save $1 billion over five years by saying we'll give the local schools $12,000 plus their impact aid and we'll shut down this and quit wasting this money. and can't even get an amendment up. and so what you see is a paralysis in washington no longer can we trust the career politicians to handle the deeds of the country. it's really disappointing. >> senator, did you just say we were spending $51,000 per pupil on military -- >> on military base schools. >> $51,000 per year per student? >> can you believe that? >> no. >> tom tries to put a common

sense amendment up to take care of this, and tom, they don't even let you get the amendment on the floor. >> can't even make the amendment pending. >> these people are not serious. leaders of both parties are not serious. they really don't understand that we're not that far behind greece, the eu, italy, they don't get it, do they? >> joe, the problem is is there's an imbalance in terms of what they view for themselves versus what they view for the country. and this idea that you're going to protect your position instead of do what's the best right thing for the country is at a point where we're now at significant risk as a nation. i mean, you heard what came out of europe late last night is now the imf which we're responsible for 17% of everything they commit to is going to be a cdo on greece. a collateralized debt

obligation. we're going to spend $200 billion of money we don't have now to try to pull out greece -- our money, our money, that we don't have -- we'll have to go out and borrow, which is just going to complicate things. what we need to do is have real leadership. you were talking about that earlier, but on the things that count. and right now -- the way you get $1 trillion out of the defense department over ten years is $1 billion at a time. and we like backboack backbone, and vision in the congress. >> willie geist here. we talked around this table a couple of weeks ago after the depressing failure of the super committee which a lot of people thought might get something done. about there being a better way. there has to be a better way to get things done in washington. it sounds like from what you're saying the better way would be to get rid of a lot of these people and bring in new blood. what can be done to the system to make it function better than it does for us today? >> well, you know, that's a

difficult question. let me just talk about the senate. when i came here the first two years, you could offer an amendment any time on anything. and people weren't afraid to vote yes or no. we have politicians so afraid for the next election that our leaderships -- what their whole goal is to protect them so they don't have to make a vote. what did we come here for? if you can't defend a vote for or against something, you shouldn't be here in the first place. and now it's all risk avoidance, we don't want anybody to have to vote because it might affect their election, which might affect the mix of congress. well, that's a paralysis that's killing our country at the very time when we need statesmanship and leadership that will say we're going to think long-term, we're going to solve the big problems. and okay, so somebody loses an election, the country gets well down the road and is better off. it's just so disappointing. >> it is. i want to ask about the payroll tax holiday bill, which is the next thing on deck.

but first, you have a perspective over a number of decades from the inside and the outside. are things worse? are they far worse? or does it always feel worse at the moment? >> you know, tom actually -- tom actually was -- we were together, we came in in 1994. and tom and i were very lucky because when we took on newt gingrich when he became too moderate, we had 70, 75 people that were with us, and i guess, tom, at the end of the day, we had 10 or 11 people we could always count on going in and fighting the leadership. and those 10 or 11 people would make the difference. at the end of the day, we drove newt out because he was spending too much money. but it sounds like now, tom, you're isolated. there is no steve next to you, no matt salomon next to you, there are no small government conservatives next to you fighting this fight. >> i don't think that's true. ron johnson is here, jim demint

is here, pat toomey's here. actually the position is stronger, the problem is we don't have the ability to force things on the floor of the senate and the senate's not being run anywhere like it's historically planned. you can't even debate something in the senate -- you can't get anybody to come and debate you because they know they're not going to take a vote so they just ignore it. >> what is the difference now between when you and i and a few others stood up to newt to force conservative cuts and what's happening today? what's the difference? >> well, i think first of all, our country's at much greater risk. we have small margin of error today, and we have a much shorter time period with which to make the adjustments. what america would like for us to do, it's not get along, they want us to do what is in the best interest of the country. >> right, tom. but i'm asking internally.

yes, i know. time is much shorter now even when it was when we had our battles against republican leadership and clinton. but i'm asking you internally inside the senate, why can't you force the changes that we were able to force on gingrich and crew? >> well, because -- because first of all the senate's set up totally different, joe. the majority leader controls everything. and unless you have a unified voice on the republican side, i would operate differently with harry reid. i would say we're not doing anything until we agree to put the senate back the way it used to be. and let's have that debate with the american people. because you can't fix what's wrong if you can't even get a $1 billion amendment up to take something that's stupid away. i would start out with confrontation and work to consolidate that and work. but we don't do that. and so the senate basically has been paralyzed for two years in terms of doing things. bills that are on the floor, nobody wants to allow an

amendment so then they pull the bills because they wouldn't allow amendments because they can't get -- and then they say it's a filibuster when, in fact, it's not a filibuster. >> it sounds to me as if mitch mcconnell is the prime suspect in this immobility in the united states senate. >> no, i don't think so. >> who is? >> i think harry reid is the prime suspect. >> mike barnicle, as alexandra haig would say, check your constitution, mitch mcconnell doesn't run the senate, it's another guy. you've been in the sports pages too long. >> his principle objective -- >> the guy who decides what comes up on if floor, though, the majority leader, harry reid. mitch mcconnell's a potted plant on this stuff, isn't he, tom? >> well, he's limited. unless he can have 43, 47 republicans come together 100%, which is another problem, team leadership, again, what we need is leaders that are thinking

long-term to solve our problems, not thinking about the next election. >> that is not going to happen. >> well, the paradox is if you actually demonstrate that to the people you represent, they restore confidence, which we had very little confidence from the american people right now. >> tom, i have known for you for decades now, and you are a hero of mine, a small government hero of mine. i don't think i've ever talked to you about football. if you could call somebody to oklahoma and ask the sooners to beat oklahoma state for us alabama crimson tide fans, we certainly would appreciate it. >> well, joe, that's a difficult problem. i graduated from oklahoma state before i graduated from oklahoma. so -- so go pokes this weekend and big. >> oh, boy. tom coburn. >> tom, thank you for your leadership. thank you so much. >> very nice to see you again. up next, senior adviser to president obama, valerie jarrett joins us live from the white house. much more "morning joe" in just a moment. [ female announcer ] lactaid milk is easy to digest.

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i was angry this weekend.

listening to the spin coming out of the administration. about the failure of the super committee. and that the president knew it was doomed for failure so he didn't get involved. so what the hell are we paying you for? it's doomed for failure, so i'm not getting involved. if he wanted to run for senate again and just be 1 of 100, i'm sure he could've got reelected over and over again in illinois. he's got to get something done here. and it's not good enough to say i'll get it done after the election. >> with us again from the white house, we've got white house senior adviser valerie jarrett. valerie has come in, and she comes in occasionally to talk mika through the job that she has and what she has to endure. >> oh, come on. >> every morning. to offer words and support. valerie, of course, a good friend of mika and mine, though she does wonder why mika puts up with this every morning. any words of wisdom to mika?

>> good morning, joe, good morning, mika, good morning everyone on the set. i missed you guys. it's good to be back. >> good to have you on. >> it's been too long. way too long. >> joe, that's because you've been misbehaving, and now i'm back. >> misbehaving! we've been talking about republicans nonstop for two months. >> that's true. >> you've got to love it. >> point well taken. >> you just heard chris christie, very critical of president obama for his hands off approach of the super committee. do you think the president should have been more hands on? is he partly to blame for the failure of the super committee? >> no, mika, this was a congressional committee that was set up, the president has led from the beginning. he was very clear at the beginning of the process of the package that he thought made sense that would be balanced and fair and would symbolize shared sacrifice. he was very specific in his proposal. and so he gave them a great deal of guidance. but ultimately, it was up to congress to do their job.

it was a committee that was set up by congress, and all eyes were on them near the end of the process, he was very clear that there would be no exit ramps. no way we would get out of this sequestration, and so it was their job to act, and they didn't. >> yeah. he has been clear that he's going to push against trying to pull back the trigger mechanism for sure, but it does fall back on him ultimately, he is the president. >> and he'll continue to lead. that's why today he's going to scranton, pennsylvania, the home of our vice president and he's looking forward to talking directly to the american people about the importance of extending and expanding the payroll tax cuts so that we can have $1,000 and hopefully under the president's plan $1,500 in the pockets of hard working americans. >> so the president obviously wants to move forward with payroll tax cuts. he believes that's the way to get the economy moving again. jon kyl on the republican side, very skeptical about that.

where does this debate break down? what do americans need to know about why the payroll tax cut will help americans get back to work? >> listen, everyone knows that americans are struggling right now. and so for a family who makes let's say $50,000 a year, if you follow the president's proposal, that would be an additional $1,500 in their pocket that they will go out and spend that will help jolt our economy. it will be important going into the holiday season. we want to make sure that people have a little extra cash in their pockets. that's why the president's proposed the american jobs act. this is one component of it. there were many other components of it that would've put money in pockets, that would enable people to have jobs right now. and this payroll tax is extremely important. 160 million americans, joe, would have this additional money in their pocket. and there's really no reason why we would see their taxes go up if the republicans are willing to act. they're the ones that don't want to raise taxes, so why would they allow come january 1, for taxes to go up on these

hard-working americans? >> jon meacham? >> well, jon meacham is a hard-working american, though he doesn't get paid $60,000 a speech like celebrities like newt gingrich. >> if you can arrange a freddie mac contract for me. >> we'll see what we can do. >> but talk a little bit about where you all see the american jobs act. a lot of us responded so well to the president's speech to congress. and it's gone through the legislative sausage making and unmaking progress. how does it look from where you all sit? >> we're very frustrated, just the way the american people are. time and time again, the republicans in congress have refused to support the american jobs act. as i said a little earlier, it would create jobs right away and our economy certainly needs that jolt. our unemployment rate as high as it is and families sitting around the kitchen table every day trying to figure out how to make ends meet, this is an act

that would've delivered on behalf of the american people. as the president has traveled around the country, he's received a great deal of support for this american jobs act, and it is frustrating that the republicans wouldn't support it. >> i want to get back to the payroll extension. and any potential for a compromise with the republicans on this. because obviously democrats would like a vote on this fairly soon in the next week or so. mitch mcconnell says that republicans do not want to tax the wealthy to pay for the extension. instead, he says, the gop would agree to continue the current payroll tax relief for another year. if it's paid for. would a compromise of some sort like that or 4.2%, would that be palatable? >> the president is interested in making sure that whatever we do is fiscally responsible. it was very important to him given our deficit. and joe, i know this is resinating with you that the american jobs act would be paid for. he came up with a proposal that was paid for. what he's unwilling to do is

have hard working americans, senior citizens, disabled, the poor pay for any sort of deficit reduction. >> wait, wait, valerie, help me out here. i'm a little confused. is republican mitch mcconnell saying he doesn't want this tax cut if it's not paid for? because if mitch mcconnell is saying that and it looks like he is saying that, he would appear to be the first republican in the history of washington, d.c. to say they don't want a tax cut unless it is "paid for" because we republicans believe that tax cuts pay for themselves. the economy grows, daisies bloom in the backyard, male pattern baldness is reversed. is that really what he's saying? >> you know what? i don't know. i'm going to leave it to you to speak for senator mcconnell. but i will say, though, is that the president's proposal puts the burden on those who can most afford it. and it's a balanced and a fair proposal. we have a couple of days left before we're hoping it comes to a vote on friday.

and what we're going to do is really work hard to encourage the american people to support this plan. and they do. and we're hoping their elected representative listens. >> valerie, you're a very good friend of ours, we love having you on. and i think mika especially looks forward to having you on because, well, she thinks if she sees you, she can get through another day with me. >> oh, lord. >> anything i can do to help mika. thank you, all, pleasure being with you. >> great seeing you again. do you think rich galen got $60,000 a speech? >> i don't know. >> i wonder if newt gave him points. so if you get three points and newt makes $100 million cashing in, get money for rich! i hope he gets a deal. >> he's next. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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all right. joining us now, former press secretary to dan quayle and newt gingrich, now the president of mullings.com. good to have you on the show. >> rich, throughout the 1990s, just for people who don't remember, you would get rich's mullings every morning and everybody would look -- it was like the note, everybody in washington -- >> mike allen does that. >> mike allen, of course, with playbook does that. but talk about newt gingrich. for those of us who have worked alongside him like me and for someone like you that's worked with him, he can at times be inspiring, but more often than not can just be maddening. >> it's really true. i just finished reading isaacson's biography of steve jobs. and he describes the reality distortion field that jobs had

around him. that if you were talking to him, no matter what you came in thinking, by the time you finished, you agreed with jobs no matter how weird it sounded at the time he was saying it. and newt had the same thing around him. when you're in the room with him -- we've seen him give a speech. his comedic timing is great, he knows a lot of stuff, he cites not only the author of a book but the page it's on. and so he does -- like jobs he creates this reality distortion field. i think the difference is th that -- that with newt it doesn't -- there's no ipod at the other end of it. >> but if he does create the ipod, he holds it up and you think, this is the most remarkable thing, and then he goes, by the way, this thing's probably going to cause you cancer. that's the thing about newt. explain that -- that every time. i've always said before, more than anybody in politics i've ever seen other than bill clinton, perhaps, newt gingrich can talk for 59 minutes and hold

your attention and you think this may be the smartest guy in american politics, and then he says something the 60th minute where you go -- >> well, you remember -- i think we all remember the infamous instance of the complaining about being on the back of the airplane on a trip to israel. >> the cry baby. >> that's exactly when that happened. i wasn't there that morning, but he was doing a breakfast, and this was when -- back when spurling ran the christian science monitor. and it was only pen and pencil, no cameras, no wire services. and newt had gone through the whole hour doing everything perfectly, and the switch went off in made him go off

the back stairways which he felt was -- >> he was insulted. talk about -- >> but at your point it was at the end of on an otherwise terrific appearance mika brought this up. we were sitting in the front row and then in the last minute he turns to mika and he says, by the way, the worst

for people for being found out. he compares himself to churchill as you know all the time, he broke down in tears talking to susan molinari, don't you understand i'm carrying western civilization on my shoulder like churchill. is that not the newt gingrich people see behind closed doors that work with him. >> one of my jobs was to be

the -- >> i hope you got paid a lot, by the way. i think i did. and by the way, i do not get a piece of the action, but, you know, how he would get at a table, after a while the staff sits in the same spot. you don't have a assigned seat, you sit in the same spot. but i ended up at the far end of the table when he was speaker and the rest of the senior staff. i mean i was far from the seniorest of the senior staff and he would say something, and i would say, i don't think it's a good idea and he would fire back, and it was a particle accelerator until it was a knew treen know going faster than light and everybody else would sort of disappear. >> i wonder, though, watching the last sound bite that we've been showing this morning of him in south carolina talking that way, about how much he made per speech to an audience to a state, to a country that has such a high unemployment level among other problems, are you, if you work for him still now, is his team in the background going, yeah, he just hit the message or are they cringing?

>> they are cringing, i suspect. that's what they do. but you can't change his mind when he gets on one of the rolls. >> when he switches out when he's talking to his peer group, he lives in a group of overvalued blowhards. >> i don't think it's that. i think he's talking to the inside of his eyelids. >> where is the seeming need that he has to tell you how smart he is, where does that come from? >> interesting. >> my experience, i'll be interested to see if joe agrees, with ph.d.s in the house of representative and senate the only people worse than them are m.d.s how smart they are, that, you know, when you get, like, phil gramm and newt gingrich and some of the other ph.d.s together who is the majority leader from dallas, i just -- >> dick armey. >> dick armey. >> you get them in the room. >> we had two professors running our ship -- >> and it comes with that territory. the vice president's wife is known as dr. jill biden, i mean, who does that? ph.d.s.

>> well -- >> yeah -- >> my father's dr. brzezinski. >> i know. but most people don't refer to him only as dr. brzezinski. >> i'm just saying. >> the reality field is the best thing. >> i would much rather have a house of representatives run by community college graduate than a ph.d.. you'd be much better shape. hey, rich, thank you. >> thanks, rich. >> i hope you can come back. >> anytime. >> we'll see you next week. we shall return.

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stream of thought that you began with which is, oh, well you say anything to get elected. but if that were the case, would i still be defending massachusetts health care? it's by far the biggest challenge i have in the primary race and if i were willing to say anything to get elected wouldn't i say, oh, it's a mistake. because i look at other people when they are on the stage when they talk about the cap and trade policy, that was a mistake. when they talk about global warming, that's a mistake. and that makes them more attractive in a primary. i'm standing by what i did in massachusetts. i could have dusted it aside. on the biggest issue that dogs me in the primary campaign i'm absolutely firm that it was the right thing for our state. i'll defend that. and i understand it has political implications and if it keeps me from winning the primary, so be it. good morning, it's 8:00 on

the east coast. if you take a live look at new york city, back with us on set we have mike barnicle and jon meach meacham. >> we've had the past couple of days, we've had newt gingrich. they do blur together. and newt, romney both talking about how they don't trip up. >> that's perfect. >> they are a solid rock, you know, i gave a scriptural reference of the day building that house on a solid foundation. >> yeah. >> we're not on sand. >> not on sand. we'll be swept away, and these guys are saying we have had our feet in cement for years. first you have newt doing it two days ago and now mitt romney saying i just don't think -- we got a politico quiz -- i'm not knocking him! you know i like mitt, and we've been talking about how great he's been doing this year. but just fess up! >> well, fessing up is exactly right, today as i'm sure you all know and you'll probably have

the party after the christmas tree, it's church hill's birthday. >> we already had it this morning. >> and he changed parties three times and remember, he said, anyone can rat, but it takes real character to re-rat. and so he talked about it. he said, look, he changed his mind. >> you can say that. >> if you just say that, i think people -- other than what you just played -- was a good start for romney. people change their minds all the time. >> right. >> normal swing voter types, and so if you're just candid about it and tell the truth. i mean, i know it's surprising. >> i don't know, because newt gingrich was a little candid about lobbying. i have that sound bite for you. >> oh, god. >> i don't think it connects. in one second. >> for one more minute here. mike barnicle, we've all said that mitt romney has done great in these debates. better than anybody else. you just wonder why the guy doesn't just say, hey, listen, i

ran the most liberal state as a governor in the nation. would you rather have had a liberal democrat do it or rather have me do it? that's easy, republicans, and so, yes, i had to take some positions i didn't agree with when i was up there. but we won up there and we ruled in massachusetts, thanks to me. >> he has zero options when he was governor of massachusetts. zero. i mean, and it's staggering to think of the democratic majorities in the house and the senate in the massachusetts legislature, upwards of 90%, so his options were to pretend he was in congress in washington and do nothing. get nothing done. or actually walk down the hallway and talk to the democratic speaker of the house, the democratic president of the senate, and try to get a minimal bunch of things done. that's what he chose to do. >> there is a difference, though, between changing your mind on one thing, which is okay, and politicians have done it since the beginning of time, but there's the impression out

there that he says things to different groups in order to win their approval, so when he's talking about guns, he says, well, four years ago i used to shoot varmints with my 0.22 all the time. >> varmints? i don't know if he said that. >> but there's the sense that he goes around telling people different things and those are core questions for him. >> well, and we talked about this yesterday, in 1992 i was a democrat, but i was pro-life and i was pro-nra. in 1994 i was a republican congressman, it was the same thing. you can go through the years. i was a small government conservative, that's what i focused on, like a laser, and if you go back to see what i wrote in '93 to compare it to today, it's identical. maybe that means i haven't grown enough, and maybe you can grow in certain ways, but what i don't understand, john, you've studied presidents and you've studied politicians, i don't understand how a man in his 50s is pro-life -- i'm sorry,

pro-choice. >> no, he's both. >> he was pro-choice and believed that women deserved the right to choose what they were going to do, and also said i'm not with the nra. >> right. >> and also brapg ebragged abou being a reagan. >> right. >> and then a decade later suddenly he loves reagan, is pro-nra, and, again, i'm not picking on mitt romney. i'm just wondering who was able to do this intellectuality in their 50s and 60s. >> well, ronald reagan did. >> no, not really. >> he was a hemophiliac liberal in 1948. >> but hold on a second, though -- >> and 12 years later he went through the '50s, he went through the ge experience, he watched the new deal, he watched eisenhower ratify the new deal, he watched the cold war, and he changed his mind. >> he was -- he was in his 40s.

i think he was in his lower 40s. >> he was born in 1911. >> he was in his 30s, actually. he was in his 30s, but anybody that knows reagan knows that he had reams and reams of notebook paper where he went around and just constantly wrote about what he believed. and you could see reagan's philosophy laid out there. there was nothing opportunistic about reagan. >> there wasn't, but it was a range. if romney's got the cards, if he's got the notebooks, if he literally wants to argue that he thought this stuff through in the last five, six years, that's a whole different thing. i think reagan is not the right excuse here for people to flip-flop and change. >> mitt romney and newt gingrich both have flip-flopped just as much and that's what makes this so fascinating right now. >> and the change continues. the lastest rasmussen poll shows mitt romney leading the gop

field in new hampshire with 34% support. newt gingrich is just 20 points behind him. ron paul and jon huntsman round out the top four in the granite state. huntsman now at double digits, though, with 11%. >> a lot at stake already. >> maybe. >> newt ten points back there. only ten points back. he's up from where he was. >> yeah. i don't think newt -- i don't newt's going to have the big impact in new hampshire. i think he's going to have a huge impact in south carolina if he doesn't blow up the way herman cain blew up. and that's a big "if" with newt because newt usually can't stand success. >> well, he likes to talk about his success when he's making a point. let's move on to this. the latest american research group poll shows gingrich topping the field in south carolina with 33% support. that's up 25 points since october. romney is in second place with -- in the state there with 22%. dropping 3 points since last month. as newt gingrich rises in the polls, there is growing scrutiny

in to his work after he left congress. he maintained -- >> he was a lobbyist. he made how much? did he make $100 million? >> no, he took -- >> no, no, he introduced -- >> he was a historian. >> well -- >> but he also talked to government groups in which "the new york times" story today, but introducing clients to a conversation. >> he basically was -- >> you could buy time with newt. >> in other words, the lax -- >> he sold access. he sold access. and he made $100 million doing it. but anyway, but newt defended himself last night saying i was never a lobbyist. >> right. >> what was his justification? >> well, "the new york times" digs into his dealings there's a front page article there. "the times" reports that through his health care consultancy, the former house speaker made millions of dollars helping companies promote their services while gaining access to government officials. >> that's not lobbying. that's just the -- is it

bribery? what would you call it if it's not lobbying? >> it's just capitalism. >> anyway, how does newt defend this to south carolina voters? >> well, he says that he didn't need the money. >> what do you mean? >> well, he didn't need it. why would he lobby? >> i heard he was broke. >> no, he was at a campaign event yesterday and he said, let me be blunt. i didn't need the money. listen. >> really? >> i did no lobbying of any kind, period. for a practical reason. i'm going to be really direct, okay? i was charging $60,000 a speech. and the number of speeches was going up, not down. normally celebrities leave and they gradually sell fewer speeches every year. we were selling more. >> okay. so, newt's justification to the good people of south carolina was, i was so rich making $65,000 for a 30-minute speech, making more money in a 30-minute speech because of the access i

could grant people, than schoolteachers make in an entire year in south carolina, an elementary teacher in south carolina will make $48,000 for 12 months' work. truck drivers make $30,000 in south carolina for an entire year's work. so, newt's defense to the good people of south carolina was i was so rich selling access, making a 30-minute speech, and getting $65,000 that i made twice as much money as you made, truck driver, in an entire year, so why would i need to be a lobbyist? all i really did was grant access and make $100 million. is that -- i'm not sitting here saying i just sell into this job, i'm not new in politics, but, i mean, i am new at politics, i don't get it, but is it a smart thing to tell people in south carolina that i'm so rich i make $65,000 a speech for

a 30-minute speech because of my government -- former government work, and so, well, you don't need to look at me as a lobbyist? >> in addition to all of that, you also have -- in that clip you have the former speaker of the house calling himself a much sought-after celebrity. he's a celebrity. >> did he call himself that? >> called himself a celebrity. >> oh, my god. cashing in on his -- >> in south carolina. >> you can see where this is going. and this is going to be so much fun. because his rise in the polls, he's a celebrity, and his constant appearances now because of his rise in the polls given his history, heit's going to so embolden him that he's going to go right off the trolley tracks rhetoric rhetorically. >> there will always be blood on the stage. >> or "ben hur." >> you were present at the creation of this. >> i was. >> and one of the things i think links all this, romney and

gingrich, and mike allen is here to talk about it, the character-driven book, he did in politico, character will out, you know, the problems of the presidency are the problems that people pointed out about obama at the time. a little aloof, a little isolated, hadn't been the rough-and-tumble of politics very long. we have now with gingrich you have a kind of bombast and a lack of self-awareness. with romney you have someone who is so eager to please. if he gets to be president, i promise "x" number of days and weeks into the presidency it's going to be, well, you know, he seems to be trying to please too many people. >> yeah. >> as if we didn't know -- >> the past is always prologue with presidents when it comes to character. it always is, and with newt gingrich here, willie geist, you got a guy that's just -- he's -- he's passing on a narrative that just doesn't work. americans know. i don't know if he thinks south

carolinians are stupid. i can tell you, i know them very well. they are smart people. you go down there, and you tell them, oh, i didn't lobby, i just got paid $100 million for granting access and, by the way, don't call me a lobbyist, because i'm so rich i made more -- and i'm such a celebrity that i made more in 30 minutes talking than you will make in an entire year teaching children. >> we shouldn't be surprised, i don't think anyone around this table is surprised, that someone in public life has gone on to make money speaking. that happens. >> that happens. >> have been that leaves office. >> i hear it happens all the time. >> but out on the campaign trail when you're in south carolina, it's probably not best to brag about something like that. and also -- >> why did he do that? >> but the evidence is out there for the public to see that he was, in fact, a lobbyist. there's just no way to get around it. it's there. >> he's gaining access. he's going into bill clinton mode where he's playing with words and semantics. >> right. >> and for the guy that acted so

offended about bill clinton talking about not knowing what the meaning of "is" is. he's doing the same thing with his for tutortured definition o lobbying which, again, made him $100 million. >> yeah. >> $100 million. there's this revolving door in washington, d.c., and we usually are offended if somebody makes a million or two million because of the revolving door in washington, d.c. newt made $100 million in that revolving door from government to lobbying to selling access to speeches. and now he's claiming, oh, no, he didn't. >> there's another element to newt that the media, we in the media, are eventually going to get to, which is this, he arrived in washington, d.c., and congress in 1978. the speaker of the house, thomas p. o'neil was a rock solid and

gentle guy. newt gingrich was the only guy i ever heard tip o'neil use the word hate when he referred to a member of congress. he hated him and blamed him for what happened and what led to today's complete polarization in washington because tip used to say in newt's world it wasn't enough to defeat the democrat that you were running against or the democrat that you were debating on the floor of the house. >> no. >> you had to demonize him. >> yeah. >> and the demonization, tip o'neil blamed the demonization in politics on newt gingrich. >> that's where we are today. any more news before we go to break? >> there's tons. i'll give you some of them. the president's approval at 43%, gallup notes it's below jimmy carter's in his presidency, earning obama's worst approval

rating in modern presidents. among independents his approval has dropped 30% dropping 10 points since january. we'll talk about it. >> jon meacham, really quickly, it's historic, historically low approval ratings and you look at him in the white house now, i would say that he's more isolated than any president in modern american history. most of his staff have left. and he's basically in there with one or two people, some have suggested that david plouffe is now acting as president of the united states because they are running the campaign. but you look, he doesn't have his close advisers around him. he's got valerie, but everybody else has scattered. >> well, his supporters like to say he's really good in near-death experiences. well, we'll see. >> well, the rate the roinles a republicans are going, he's still going to rin, which is interesting. >> i would say, mike, historically low numbers, mike,

this is a race to the bottom. what it may mean is that an independent may still have a chance to win. >> the president at 43% approval rating, i'm surprised it's that high. >> oh, come on now. up next a look forward, what issues, trends, and ideas will shape the world in 2012? the executive and editor of the "economist" takes us inside their guide to the year ahead. also ahead "monocle" magazine is out with its soft power survey, measuring a country's ability to persuade and influence a world with culture and policies. their editor in chief shows us who is topping the list this year. but, first, the weather channel meteorologist todd santos with a check on the forecast. todd? >> thanks so much, mika. it turned out to be a breezy day in new york city. if you are heading to the tree lighting latter tonight, temperatures in the mid to lower 40s and the winds make it feel closer to the upper 30s. so, dress for that. meanwhile, take a look at the areas across the northeast that are starting to see the clouds clear out. boston getting improving

conditions. most of the showers have shifted to the northeast of portland back towards cleveland and light snow there. visibility down to a half mile at the airports. that may promote a few airline delays as we work into the afternoon. a little bit of the lake-effect heading up to erie, p.a., and the southeastern edge of lake erie in the daytime. much of the southeast and much of the rest of the country looking good for your woiednesd. cooler temperatures in place for most of us and sunshine breaking apart much of the east coast. you name it. i've tried it. but nothing's helped me beat my back pain. then i tried this. it's salonpas. this is the relief i've been looking for. salonpas has 2 powerful pain fighting ingredients that work for up to 12 hours. and my pharmacist told me it's the only otc pain patch approved for sale

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why china is kicking our -- >> it's 9:21. >> why china is kicking our -- >> look at that beautiful shot of new york city, top of the rock. pretty morning. joining us now for this morning's business before the bell, the executive editor of "the economist," daniel franklin. he's editor of the world in 2012, "the economist" annual publication focused on the trends, issues, and ideas that will shape the year ahead. very good to have you on the show this morning. >> good morning. good to be here. >> let's go through them. number one, emerging economies will buy over half the world's imports. >> yes, well, that's a big

landmark. we thought of the emerging markets as selling to the world but now buying over half. becoming very important for global demand and it's not probably far off before china overtakes americas as the world's biggest importer, probably 2014 or so, but the next year emerging markets taken together will be the biggest importer, so they're becoming increasingly important for the global economy. >> china taking over america is a concern that a think a lot of people are tuning in to, having said that, that could be short-lived, not because we could regroup, but isn't that a bubble within itself? >> well, i think chinas had its own difficulties but if you look at the longer-term perspective and horizon for china, it's a country that has enormous potential to grow and get richer and, of course, you have such a large population, so they're not going to be richer than the united states, but they are -- they are going to be a bigger economy within a few years' time. >> okay. >> you know, i'm sure that this

won't come as a real shock to you, but americans can sometimes be sometimes very provincial in our thinking, and yet today in europe and for many days in the past, we have been sitting on the precipice of potentially a huge economic upheaval given the fact that the euro and the euro zone seems to be going nowhere. what happened to leadership not just here in washington but in europe? >> well, i think, first of all, you're quite right, and even in europe it's hard for many people to get their minds roundabout how quite serious this situation is at the moment. it's as if -- and people are starting to really make contingency plans for this. if the euro breaks up. this is a very, very dramatic break, first of all with european history but also for the economy which will have big impacts around the world. so, leadership is difficult, because the way the euro zone works, it's 17 countries getting everybody to agree is hard.

and the key person in all this right now is angela merkel, the german chancellor. she is naturally a terribly cautious person. he bide she bides her time and she decides and eventually she takes the plunge. but we're in a time right now where that approach is having problems itself, because everybody is looking at her and saying save us, please. >> number two is that bankers will face big pay cuts. >> well, yes, bankers have actually done remarkably well through the recession, reasons. first of all, the economy is going to squeeze their profits, and secondly regulation is kicking in. >> uh-huh. >> so, they're going to have to look very hard at their costs particularly the investment banking side of the business. and the biggest cost is the staff, the personnel, so either reducing the pay or reducing the numbers or perhaps a bit of both. >> so, that's just in numbers, or is it social pressure as

well? >> i think it's both. there's a lot of social pressure. on the other hand, you know, the social pressure works both ways. people want the banks to work, to lend, to be profitable, so that the really top talent will still be able to command big money. >> so, not time yet to weep for the top of goldman? >> i don't think anybody will, but it's going to be much harder, it's going to have to start bite really before the recession began. >> the next one on the list is fascinating, cancer mystery will be cracked, not cured, but cracked. >> important to say not cured. we're not looking for a cure for cancer in the next year. but really the stepping up of genome sequencing is happening at such a pace and next year there's an interesting project getting under way coordinated around the world of looking at vireio various types of cancer and looking for really the needle in the haystack of what are the actual mutations that cause different types of cancer. and because you can apply such

processing power and because -- this is the interesting bit about this project. you can coordinate different research from different parts of the world, i think there are maybe 30 different laboratories around the world taking part in this. the chances of finding those needles rise significantly. so, not a cure, but really sometime quite soon and it may well be in 2012 the code for cancer is starting to be broken. >> so, number four i'm just -- i don't know. i don't know about this. i can't see it happening here. here, europe you are dressed up. there's always something wrong, you know? like i could -- i'm going to be -- i'm just saying. but you predict that office attire will become more formal. it's kind of a swing from the first three. >> here am i bucking the trend with our society. yes, again, this stems from the idea that there's so much uncertainty in the workplace around and people are nervous

about their jobs, so the idea is that they'll be a swing back, first of all, showing up to work. all of this virtual office stuff you see, you know, or -- >> be nice if you showed up. >> at least appear to be there, leave your placard on the chair to make people think you're there. >> i've done that for years. >> and what i like is the notion that because people will be there more, they'll be around the water cooler more, they'll be actually a return to the office canteen, it will be a good year for office gossip, you can't do it as well virtually as you can do it in person. >> wow. that's quite a prediction. all right, one -- let's try to get. white space will put wi-fi on steroids. >> it's technical jargon for the bit of the spectrum that's being released really because television stations are going digital. >> yeah. >> you have to leave the space between the various signals in order to avoid interference around the country.

and that space is being freed up because the stations are going digital, and that allows you to use that spectrum and it allows you to have local wi-fi-like services on a much bigger scale. so, that opens up the serious trials for that are going to be getting under way in 2012 and that allows all sorts of creativity of the sorts of services you may offer in shopping malls or supermarkets and that kind of thing. >> there you go. i think i see them all potentially except for number four, but we'll see. "the economist" is usually right. daniel franklin, thank you so much. coming up next, the reach of soft power, which countries are doing the most to shape relations. the editor in chief of "monocle" magazine joins us next.

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welcome back to "morning joe," 36 past the hour. joining us now the editor in chief of "monocle" magazine,

tyler brule. what a great name. you could be a chef. >> thanks. >> or a dessert. >> or a dessert, definitely. >> i'm preferred as a dessert. >> the magazine is great. >> thank you very much. our biggest ever. >> it is? >> it's massive! >> it's humongous. >> it's as big as a phone book. >> oh, my lord. >> it's unbelievable. "monocle" tell us all about it. >> you did a soft power survey. >> we'll get into that in a sec. >> i was here and you were both on holiday and i had to be with mr. geist. >> tyler brule. >> i absolutely love it, i've been down to your store downtown and you've got stores all over the world. >> we do. >> tell us about "monocle." >> well, it's coming up to five years. it's a global briefing on everything you need to know, so it focuses -- it opens with world affairs, does business, does a lot of culture and media, sometimes taking a bit of a contrarian view towards the media and then a good dose of design and, of course, nice things to buy as well. >> i love it. i love it. so, you know, the big challenge for america moving forward right now is not hard power, obviously

our military we've got more military might than every other country combined, but it is the lost of soft power. we had jeffrey sachs on and other people that travel the world, they all tell us they go into the boardrooms and people aren't even talking about the united states anymore. has the united states lost their perch as the most powerful country? >> this is -- this is our second year doing our soft power survey and, in fact, we changed the metrics a little bit, so we added some new elements. one of the things we added this year was -- >> by the way, we're talking shorthand. define soft power first. >> well, it's -- my definition is those basic assets which make you more attractive. to be able to get your way through more attractive and friendly means. and so that can be, you know, the power of your business brand, your cultural exports, you know, the strength of your cultural or educational institutions. and what we did is we looked at -- we reached, last year was

a tie between our neighbors in france and the uk, it was a joint tie. but this year partly because we placed business -- the business emphasis which was higher up the ranking, america won this year. but i think you're absolutely right. i think there is a problem i think when you pinball around the world. >> meacham just did this. guys from suwanee are so g jingoistic. >> it's great that emirates can buy triple 7s and place them at the border. do they want to touch u.s. consumer brands every day and i think there's a big question mark. >> this is something that huntsman brought up in the last debate where he talked about one of the great national security risks is the fact that the united states is not as powerful. there are countries like now, look at saudi, who are a bit contemptuous of right now, they see the rise of china and

they're thinking we don't have to kowtow to the united states of america anymore, we've got an economic -- not a military choice, an economic choice to deal with the chinese. they even get better rates. >> one of the great foreign policy questions how do you exert your will without appearing imperialist which is one of the soft power's great advantages, so what were the nonprivate sector or the public sector examples that you found this year that seemed to stand out for the united states? >> i think for the united states, look at ace, america no matter what people say and whether it's -- not necessarily who is paying the bills, but it is still the biggest foreign aid lender in the world and that is something which you absolutely cannot deny. so, i think from a public sector point of view, that's the one thing that still stands out, tops the list. >> so, fascinating. you look at it and look at germans right now, i'm a little upset at you, tyler. >> why, because --

>> because i'm carrying europe on my back. >> of course. >> carrying the french and the british, they only survived because i as a german citizen say they survive economically, you're carrying western europe on their shoulders. >> absolutely. but what we did we still had to come back to what did they do from a soft perspective now. what was the last great german film that you saw? when is the last time you shook your bum to some good german pop music. >> well, that, too. >> willie is -- >> i think there, there is -- you know, you see that it's challenged on sort of cultural and we love ""der spiegel"" they are a great cultural asset, but are people watching deutsch velo around the world? >> we hear about the rise of china. it's not on the list. how soon before it makes the list? >> it's in at number 20. >> 20. >> it was hard -- it was a big debate and it was much further down the list, we looked at

something very simple, you know, is there universal connection in china. >> chinese food. >> the chinese bum shaking. >> big, very big. >> willie? >> but you have to look within the region. the power of the cantonese brands and what is, you know, exported and you have to sort of include hong kong into the mix is incredibly important. >> we're joking. we're joking a little bit about this, and by the way, the correct answer is the -- we were joking about this in 1970. you remember kraft work! so, but during the cold war, when the soviet union was closed off, there was no doubt that the united states was making inroads, because soviet kids would kill for american jeans, for american nemusic, across th middle east, i don't know why, but they loved "bay watch." this does actually have an

impact. >> yeah. >> on how we move cultures and how they think of us. >> absolutely. and some that were small didn't quite make the top five and, you know, number one is usa. number two is uk. number three is french, germany four, the aussie's came in at five. tiny little sweden, and not because of what they do certainly on a public diplomacy side but, you know, it's, you know, the power of, you know, all of the various dragon and tattoo books. but what touches people's lives every way around the world in a direct since, ikea and the great democratization of design and they did it as well. and you have to put that in and factor that in. that's where the u.s. needs to work harder i think on consumer brands which touch people's lives every day. >> i think it's fair to say it's a troubled time in u.s./swedish relations. >> yes.

such a transformation now. i don't know if they can endure it. >> mark brzezinski is the ambassador over there. >> you have to meet my brother. maybe he could help you out. >> they can put him in the diplomat you can pouch. it's flat folded and perfect. >> we can do "morning joe" live from sweden. >> will you be there? >> why don't we go to sweden and we'll do for london as well. we'll be there for the olympics, right. >> thank you, tyler brule and the magazine "monocle." and we go to the militants of craft. the british phone hacking scandal, details from london. [ male announcer ] humana and walmart have teamed up

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>> it's fine by me. >> reporter: the story by any means. is the story former "news of the world" deputy editor paul mcmullen is now telling. he said top editors not only knew about things like phone hacking, they condoned it, calling them the scum of jour l journalism, but only because they haven't admitted it. even takes a swipe at onetime editor piers morgan now at cnn who he does not link to hacking but says this -- >> he was i want the story at all costs, pretty much, i don't care what you have to do. >> reporter: mcmullen, you name it, phone hacking of celebrities, even of murdered children, yes, he says, all worth it. >> phone hacking is perfectly acceptable tool given the sacrifices that we make if all we're trying to do is get to the truth.

>> reporter: he says reporters would trade phone numbers. that he swapped sylvester stallone's mother for david beckham. but when he went to hack in to beckham's voice mail, oops, he answered the phone. he says "news of the world" would pay, police, credit card companies, medical workers tens of thousands of dollars for scoops. even princess diandiana's bodyg he says sold information on where she was. >> 30,000 pounds, please, i need to pay my mortgage, yes, no problem. >> reporter: mcmullen said he would lie. call celebrities' hotels -- >> you get a list of all the phone numbers that you've just run and you ring them all up and you find the mistress has just rung. >> reporter: he'd dig through garbage and chase the story literally. >> it was -- how many jobs can you actually have car chasings in. it was great. >> reporter: what about ethics, they asked him? privacy? >> privacy brings out the worst

qualities in people. >> who was this guy? >> who was this creep? not who is this guy? >> former "news of the world" depuuty editor. >> i can't believe he was defending phone hacking. >> that was, again, the way they do business. >> that was the culture at "news of the world" and it crossed -- >> when you hear him talk about car chases after the death of diana, paparazzi and buzzing flies. >> says that was great fun. coming up next, rick perry encourages anyone 21 and older to get out and vote on november 2nd next year. a couple things that are wrong with that statement when we return. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the personal attention

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>> hold on. >> it's their future. >> it is. >> i believe the children are the future. >> young, but not too young. >> what do you mean? >> you don't want to be too young. >> what do you mean? >> you should be prepared, like 21 years old. the voting age is 18, he wants them to come in at 21, and you are a fully formed human being ready to vote. >> election day is november 6th, let's see what governor perry had to say. >> okay. >> and the fact is those of you that are sitting in this hall who are going to inherit this

country, we're counting on you. those of you that will be 21 by november the 12th, i ask for your support and your vote. those of you who won't be, just work hard, because you're going to inherit, and you're counting on us getting this right. >> so, if you under 21, not interested in your vote. >> don't want your vote. is he, like, saying vote for newt? what's he saying? >> apparently there's going to be a special election on the monday after. >> i think he's encouraging drinking and voting. >> when does he celebrate christmas? november 29. come on. coming up, what if anything did we learn? ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." let's talk about what we learned today. what have you learned? >> i learned from wnbc this is going to be the worst traffic day in new york city of any years. the president is here from 5:00 through the evening. they're going to shut down the fdr and the christmas tree lighting at rockefeller center. >> we're out of here. meacham, what did you learn? >> i learned when mika signs a book it's a particular signature. that's not even hers which is -- >> that's kind of interesting,