the millionaire, mitt romney. >> this is an unusual interview. lpá's do it again. let's do it again. >> goody two shoes, michele bachmann. >> speaker gingrich was a professor and professors don't like to be challenged. >> dr. feel good, ron paul. >> he's a flip flopper. he can hardly be the alternative. >> and the godfather himself. >> i am not going to make a decision until after we talk face-to-face. >> this is smack down, 2012. we begin with a republican presidential race turning into a tag team wrestling doubt. so much for super friends. they are not even frenemies anymore. this gang is taking off the gloves and putting the smack down on one another faster than you can see flip flop. if you thought this was all about mitt, the big bear

himself, newt gingrich has news for you. >> i would have thought it was going to be mitt and not mitt, i think it may be newt and not newt. including the more conservative candidate. >> romney is not down for long. he is swinging hard against the former speaker with the p word, it packs a real punch. >> the biggest difference between us is probably our life experience. he has spent his last i don't know, 30, 40 years in washington and is a career politician and washington person. i would take exception on his characterization of conservative credentials related to mine or electability. that's something that time will tell. >> career politician. ouch. who would want to be one of those. not someoneç running for president for six years after serving as governor. just when you thought the cage match was getting crowded, john

hunts min the outsider bringing in a reflector shield using mitt's own words against him in a new ad. >> you thought it would be a model for the nation. >> you are wrong, bret. those who follow the path we pursued will find us the best path. he takes a mandate approach. >> this is an unusual interview. let's do it again. >> guess who else is stepping in to go after gingrich. that's right. tea party teacher's pet michele bachmann after newt took a twip at miss bachmann's brain. >> you have a student who couldn't figure out where things were or what day it was. >> speaker gingrich was a professor and professors don't like to be challenged. he would have to answer why the text book he wrote, the letter to the "wall street journal" in 2004, he would have to be the 1

to explain why it's inaccurate. he favored president bush's immigration reform bill which was commonly called an amnesty proposal. >> yes, speaker gingrich is known to favor a humanitarian approach on immigration. no one would accuse newt of being overly compassionate to the poorest youth as he doubled down on the grand plan to have them scrub the school's toilet. >> what if they became assistant janitors and the job was to mop the floor and clean the bathroom? you paid them. >> let's bring in the panel with me in new york. msnbc contributor is the managing editor and joining us from washington is the communications director for

president obama. we are all delighted that he made $60,000 a day for speaking, but what about his plan to make children scrub school toilets? >> making speeches is exactly like scrubbing the toilets of the school you go to. he is the ultimate patrician. he thinks he is putting forward a really unique and cool policy proposal to say put the poor kids to work. it's unbelievable. >> going back to victory requestian times. is this an ugly blood bath where the top four basically end up killing each other? >> it's about time because they have been holding their punches and haven't spent a lot of time drawing contrasts between each other. i think one of the turning points here is probably when newt gingrich is watching while mitt romney attacks newt for having a position on immigration that mitt romney himself had five years ago. we all know he has one of the most extreme positions on the issue, but if you are watching

that, you understand why he took the gloves off and as we saw in the lead in, the rest is history. >> you are enjoying it? >> you have to enjoy it from time to time. the truth is the american people want to know what the differences are between the candidates and they want to know who who stands for what on immigration and who stands for what on taxes and we spent so much time in this republican primary talking about controversy. we haven't spent a lotç of tim talking about where the candidates stand on the policy issues of the day. >> he seemed to be looking beyond the candidates. newt gingrich will have to stop firing back. >> i think he is. if the others have figured the out and as long as all of them are in the race, it benefits mitt romney. now that he sees particularly

newt gingrich begin to consolidate support and others drop back, he needs to push back. he has a particularly stop in the rise of gingrich. it's not just a gaggle of other people. >> there is reporting that romney's campaign attacks gingrich on his past. they may draw attention to mr. romney's happy lifetime monogamy and sons against the serial adultery. is this likely to have any effect given the fact that gingrich seems to have settled down with w calista and theirs is a shared love of tiffany's? >> we will see what the voters think and it is an indication of where the race is right now. nobody is out there getting a mitt romney tattoo. he has not raised the level of excitement and energy in his own party and people are looking for an alternative. the fact that there rumors of his plans to attack the

character of other candidates shows he is nervous and he knows this is not his race yet. >> in addition serial adultery, ron paul has just released an ad attacking gingrich on serial hypocrisy, somethingç we super not heard much about. listen to this. >> we don't always see eye to eye, do we, newt? >> no, but we agree our country must address climate change. >> newt gingrich has been on both sides sometimes in the same week. >> i don't think right wing social engineering is any more desirable than left wing social engineering. >> with ales like that, who needs a left? >> i thought mitt romney was suppose to be a flip flopper. newt gingrich has been just as inconsistent over the years. >> a long career in public and he is unique because he seems to

be for sale to the highest bird. he changes position within the year. those ads were about a year ago. it was not long ago that he believed in climate change. he has been on both sides of the individual mandate issue. he has exactly the same core problem as romney except he does have a foothold in the conservative movement. he is seen as a movement conservative. >> the final question to you. we spoke to barney frank and he said that newt gingrich's record in the congress was poisonous and he is a poisonous individual. does that meanwhile he is generally contained his bile as it were for the press, do you think he is now going to start leaking that out on his other contenders? >> what we have learn and all the candidates learned is the national pot light and focus is you can be bright and it's unforgivable. as soon as you rise in the

polls, people want to know what your background is. the american people want to know you are who you say you çare. that's exactly what newt gingrich will experience over the next couple of weeks. people will be peeling the onion and looking to who he is what and what he stands for and the issues he will fight for. he hasn't had to deal with that. >> is it going to be newt or is it going to be mitt? >> i still think the odds favor mitt romney only because he had the staying power in terms of fund-raising and i think once people take a closer look at newt gingrich, a lot of the same issues that happened with previous front-runners will happen. he got turned out of the speakership in shame. this is not a guy we want. >> i had to pay a fine of $300,000. who do you think it will be? >> it's like picking between liver and lima beans. i don't know which is better or worse, but it's about timing.

that's why we love politics. it's so close to the primary right now and a couple of weeks ago we would have thought it's romney's to lose. newt made a surge. i will be watching like everybody else. >> absolutely. thanks so much for joining us this afternoon. next, is the gop trying to suppress voter turn out? stay with us. [ male announcer ] nature valley sweet & salty nut bars... they're made from whole roasted nuts and dipped in creamy peanut butter, making your craving for a sweet & salty bar irresistible, by nature valley. i took some steep risks in my teens. i'd never ride without one now. and since my doctor prescribed lipitor, i won't go without it for my high cholesterol and my risk of heart attack. why kid myself? diet and exercise weren't lowering my cholesterol enough. now i'm eating healthier, exercising more, taking lipitor.

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the 15th amendment said the right of citizens of the united states devote shall not be denied or abridged. so why does the democratic national committee feel the need to launch know effort to protect this most sacred right?

according to the website protecting the vote.org, republicans have undertaken efforts to restrict voting rights. especially among the young and minorities. especially those that favor the democrats. republicans introduced laws in at least 40 states that would make voting more difficult. today they are voting on a bill that would decimate the assistance commission. the last line of defense againsç electoral fraud. florida congresswoman is chair of the dnc and she joins us now. good afternoon. >> great to be with you. what happens to it in f this republican backed kill were to pass? >> the eac is the last line of defense for making sure that voter fraud is investigated and there consequences for engaging in that. for the republican party to profess that the reason that they are passing all of these

laws is because of so-called ramp aant voter fraud, to attem to abolish the commission is the height of hypocrisy. it is important that we make sure that we increase the franchise that we help people get more access to the polls. these voter suppression laws that are passed and have been unbelievable. for example, in texas they are not consistent in the kinds of photo ids that are acceptable. for a student in texas, even a state issued id is not as acceptable as a ballot for voting and a gun list is. it is transparent who they are trying to block and who they want to smooth the path for. >> just to be clear, what is the issue with a photo id? as you know, we have to produce a photo id at the airport. what's the big issue? >> the big issue is you have 11% of americans that don't have a

photo id. for certain populations like african-americans and low income folks, they are even;hsjut liky to not have a photo id. 25% don't have a photo id and it's not necessary. just an obstacle in the path of getting someone to the polls. every state in the country has the technology in place. to compare the voter's signature with what they have on file. whether it's computerized or a copy of the signature they have. a photo id requirement is an obstacle to get to the polls. >> you know that herman cain's manager had been found guilty for his in voter suppression. i guess herman cain won't be in favor of the approach, will he? >> i think herman cain has his

own set of problems right now. i'm not going to pile on. the bottom line is that even the bush department of justice did a five-year investigation of whether or not there is significant voter fraud and they came up with nothing. there was so little voter fraud they simply were not able to mount effective evidence to demonstrate that action needed to be taken to dress a problem that doesn't exist. what they are doing is trying to make sure that because they can't win an election on the merits, they are trying to ensure that people who go to the polls and vote for democrats can't get there. >> understood and i am glad you raised the election. they released an ad going after mitt romney. now that newt gingrich is the latest fling for republicans, are you preparing something special? you can give us an insight as to what you may be could being up? >> i think he is doing a good job showing2just how extreme h

is. he's got quite a bit in his background that examined more closely and that will give voters pause. what will give voters the most pause is that the entire republican field is out of step with the middle class and working families. they have no interest in creating jobs or moving the economy forward. the only focus is one job. barack obama's. democrats are focused on leadership on american jobs and getting the economy to continue to turn around which we made progress on under president obama. we need to make more and need cooperation from folks on the other side of the aisle. more focus on the electoral output. >> i wonder if i can ask you, gingrich said he never has been a lobbyist. you has been in congress since 2005. does that square with your experience and what you know about his activities in washington? >> i don't know how he defines

lobbyist, but if you use the definition of someone who advocates for a position or provides advice for those who have business. >> or access to congress men and women. >> yes. if you make the most narrow definition of what a federal lobbyist is, i couldn't tell you whether he meets that test. he seems to have been engaged in advocacy and advising client who is have business with the federal government. >> thanks for joining us and addressing both the issue of voter fraud and the less serious issue of the republican race. thank you. >> thank you so much. >> stay with us. the day'sç top lines however te they may be are coming right up. >> i helped ronald reagan and jack kemp and lead the effort to defeat communism and the

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our snuggle up and win sweepstakes starts soon. enter at snuggleupandwin.com today. tempur-pedic, the most highly recommended bed in america. while someç economists argue tt president obama doesn't do enough to stimulate the economy, others have chosen a different path. in the case of the united kingdom, not far at all. britain's version of the nonpartisan congressional budget office issued a grim forecast and many expect the economy to fall back into the recession next year. an msnbc contributor and policy adviser to vice president biden and joins us now. good afternoon, sir. the british introduced savage

cuts, the brutal approach favored by many republicans in the house. what has this done to things like gdp and unemployment? >> it led to slower gdp growth and that led to higher unemployment. i was in a city that you know about, london, and you could very much sense from talking to policy makers over there that this austerity program is in a lot of trouble in terms of slowing growth and the economy and jobs and also because when the economy grows more slowly, you end up with less revenue. it's not helping much on the deficit side. the other thing you saw from the office of budget responsibility are higher projections. it's just a wrong headed approach and the numbers confirm that. >> despite this, mitch mcconnell and john boehner be rate the president for not cutting

spending. every republican candidate in the race for 2012 wants to reduce government. if we were to impose their approach, what would it do it our faltering recovery. that's what it is.ç >> it would take it from faltering to flat lining. mitch mcconnell said he is not guided by canesian economics. he got it by wanting the fot lose. the idea of throwing the economy under the bus for your own political gain is not something the american people have shhave to deal with right now. there others who simply don't believe these measures have worked. the evidence including from our nonpartisan cvo is that stimulus measures have been helpful and now what we have is a clear look at the other side. what happens if you take this stuff serious she, sure enough as long as the private sector is still down on the mat, not

generating the economic activity and jobs we need right now, the government is about the only game in town. you take that out of the picture. you are going to have slower growth and higher unemployment. >> the specific experiment is clear to all of us. one final question, the house is considering a bill at this moment to reduce the tax by half from 3.1% to 6.2%. democrats want to fund this by a small tax on people earning over $1 million as you know. if the vast majority have an official $1500 to spend on average, isn't that exactly what we need to accelerate the recovery? >> it is. it is and the payroll cut is in the 2011 economy. if you were to allow that tax cut to expire at the endç of nt month as a schedule, that's

austerity economics and taking something out that is giving us a boost. ask yourself, who is income-constrained in the economy. the obvious answer is the latter. a paycheck boost for them through this payroll tax cut will unquestionably help move growth. the opposite will slow us down further. >> using the uk as a disastrous example. thank you very much indeed. >> my pleasure. >> the day's top lines, fact or fiction. >> we wouldn't have an american embassy in iran. i wouldn't allow that to be there because they are a state sponsor of terror. [ indistinct conversations ] nice, huh? yeah. you know what else is nice is all the savings you can get

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>> from mitt and non-mitt to newt and non-newt. bachman to bark. here are today's top lines. >> people said you know, i think we need newt gingrich. >> on the defense taking $1.5 million. >> after he left congress, they paid gingrich $1.6 million. >> i would have thought originally it was mitt and not mitt, it may turn out to be newt and not newt. >> it may be the democrats want newt gingrich to win the nomination so they can go after his personal life. they need to knock me out. >> i helped lead the effort. >> last i checked, >> i'm a back fan. it's not because my name is

bachman. >> i talked to my wife many times about the situation. i have not talked to her face-to-face. >> i can't make this stuff up. frankly speaking i wouldn't want to make this up. >> i am not going to make a decision until after we talk face-to-face. >> do you think aç mandate mandating people to buy insurance is the right tool? >> bret, i don't know how many hundred times of have said this too. >> he thought it was overly aggressive. >> this is an unusual interview. let's do it again. >> i wouldn't allow that to be there because they are a state sponsor of terror. >> let's get right to the panel in washington. jonathan cape hart and here in new york, steven jenkins, singer

of the band third eye blind who wrote a song for occupy wall street. msnbc contributor and strategist crystal ball. even though we have a rock star, i regard you as the rock star. poor mitt. he stays in the race and can't get any love. do you think it's possible that they could be overtaken by the adult resz non-lobbyist newt gingrich. >> sheer overtaken. i doe. if you look at the polls in florida, newt gingrich is beating him by 30 points. the gingrich surge is different than the other flavors of the week of the the other ones, they came out and said we love them and maybe not so much. gingrich was the reverse. they said what's going on? he built momentum and he is the front-runner. >> you than romney is stuck at a plateau and newt's favorability grows even as romney's decline.

mitt is on the cover of timeç magazine asking the question, why don't they like me. it's sad, isn't it? >> it's really sad. poor mitt romney who has been running for president for a long time. he has run a good campaign. steady eddie and leading them fight amongst themselves, but he didn't anticipate that newt gingrich would come into the race and flaming out and coming back like jason from the friday the 13th movies. unlike herman cain and michele bachmann and rick perry who had a lot of flash, newt gingrich has pulled it all together. the only problem he will have is whether he steps on his own momentum with all of his self-depp riicating humor. >> that's a generous description. steven, you have been out with

the occupy wall street movement and you through the period you have written the song and i have seen you on television. you heard some of these republican candidates refer to the people as scum, needing a bath and really derided them. what effect do you think that will have on the election? >> i think occupy is a moment that is going to turn into a movement. it is going to speak to the middle. i think that republicans are actually beginning to realize that. they are beginning to soften their approach. i heard something about a gathering of republican governors and they are in florida and terrified about what's happening with occupy and how they are going to manage talking about it. i think they will have an effect. canç we go back? we used that with newt gingrich. he forgot to register in

missouri. >> it is relative. >> crystal, we haven't talked much about herman cain. he said as you know he is not going to decide anything until he speaks to his wife face-to-face. if someone accused me of having a 13-year affair. he would see my wife immediately. he doesn't. he carries on. how does that play out with mrs. cain? >> i would tell you i had a short conversation with my husband and don't expect it to be a problem in our relationship. if a woman is calling at 4:00 aim and you are on business, come home so we can discuss. it's bizarre and i would say too if anyone is publicly contemplating reassessing and possibly getting out, even if he doesn't get out which i think is probably unlikely, i think he will get out, but even if hoos doesn doesn't, the supporters favor newt gingrich.

this is another good development for newt gingrich. >> i heard you chuckling. is that because you think he could have a problem when he confronts his wife? >> tomorrow. he is going to atlanta tomorrow to have a chit-chat. i don't expect it to be a nice conversation or an easy conversation as crystal said. how do you explain to your wife that you are communicating with a woman at 4:26 and sending her money and she has no idea who she is and she is not a family friend? that's justç one of five womene are talking about, allegations and accusations of sexual harassment and maybe sexual assault. it won't be an easy conversation. >> here said there may be thousands that come forward. >> that's the question. >> you are the bona fide rock star and you are supposed to be

those who live lives who are full of ka rousing and inequity and compared to these politicians -- >> i would run. count me in. i think this question about newt. i think newt is irrelevant except what it says about the state. she a he is a liar and left the country judge kiss grace. >> here could be the republican nominee. >> he absolutely could. >> stay with us. we are going to come back because the question now, is this the gop running scareed from occupy wall street? stay with us. >> i'm so scared of this anti-wall street effort. i'm frightened to death. ♪ wake up, it's christmas! mom.

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>> per back with our panel now, i want to play two pieces of sound for all of you. president obama last night. listen to this. >> they will fight with everything they have to protect the tax cuts of the wealthiest americans and have no problem breaking the oath with raising taxes on middle class families. just to score political points. >> noted republican pollster and frequent guest frank luntz has noticed something in his focus groups. that republicans may be missing what's happening on the streets of america and may pay the price in 2012. >> i'm so scared of this anti-wall street effort. i'm frightened to death. they should occupyrh job and take a bath. i get that joke, but man, they are having an impact on what the american people think of

capitalism. i am trying to get that word remove and replace it with free market. >> steve, he said all we need to do is stop using the word capitalism and choose a phrase like free enterprise and we will draw in the occupy protesters. >> republicans are great at rephrasing the argument. democrats are terrible at it. i'm sure they are working on that. >> you are impressed with their skill at that? >> i'm impressed with their ability to create create rick out of nonsense. >> frank luntz is beginning to pick up on something. having spend the time abusing protesters and calling them dirty scum hippies in need of a bath, that is changing and the republicans are beginning to be associated almost consistently with the wealthiest people in the nation and the rest can go to hell. >> they are becoming the guardians of pluto krasy.

they wanted tole demonize the protesters themselves, but they have a message about jobs and the economy. they have the income inequality that is resonating with people across the aisle. that's what republicans are afraid of. >> i don't think this is really -- >> i top the get john's thoughts on that. do you agree what frank is picking up on is actually in some measure a slight shift in the tide? >> yes, it is. in fact having those words come out of frank's mouth should be considered a victory by those folks in all those occupy wall street occupy portland and occupyç l.a. all those protests and movements that they are making an impact. the message is getting through. desperately trying to figure out how to change the conversation. >> do you agree with that? >> i do. i think they can go a step

further and sort of get off the closed mindedness of looking at this as a liberal versus conservative and look at it as a democracy versus olegarchy. you can look at it as a restorative movement saying something is out of balance and something is perfectible in our more perfect union and that's what they are trying to do. >> a disparity of wealth and the fact that it's concentrated in such a small percentage while the vast pama yourity suffer unemployment and home foreclosures. >> fair markets are fixed markets because of a relationship between money and power. >> the issue of money and politics which is not a partisan issue at all. it shouldn't be. it's a foundational issue for the democracy. going back to what jonathan was

saying, we spent the past year after the mid-term elections talking about the deficit. when we have the worst unemployment crisis in a generation. finally we are back to talking about jobs. this is one time with the payroll tax cut debate saying we need to give middle class americans a tax cut and putting that against republicans who are out there tooth and nail defending the top ç.1%? we are getting that messaging back and that is thanks in part to occupy wall street. >> and the rock star jonathan cape hart who is talking about not referred to as a rock star. we know you are. thank you so much. >> this was my first time on a panel. it was a hoot. thanks for having me. >> we'll be right back. everyone have their new blackberry from at&t?

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>> the senate is tonight is expected to vote on the democrat's payroll tax plan. and with an extension of unemployment benefits up next, the scene is set for a battle royal. congressman peter welsh is a democrat from vermont and chief whip. republicans now say they have a plan for extending the payroll tax holiday. but the white house moments ago says it falls short of what the president wants. do you think their proposal is a serious one? >> i don't. i think what's happened here is that their negotiating tactics in the past have worked. not to negotiate is now working against them. because with the failure of the super committee, it means if nothing is done, defense cuts go into place and it also means that these bush tax cuts all expire. now they're up against a

situation where the president has a tax reduction plan that would affect millions of americans, and the republicans are against it. and they're coming back with what frankly is a pretty lame way of imposing the cost of the tax cuts on the people who have received the tax cuts. >> it's remarkable. just moments ago, our own luke russert asked house speaker john boehner what it would mean for the economy if congress fails to extend the payroll tax holiday and jobless benefits. and i have to say, we were stunned by the speaker's response. watch this. >> you know, i'm not an economist. i don't know what impact it's going to have on the economy. it's just that i do believe that there's enough common ground between where the white house and democrats are and where republicans are for us to move this legislation and to do soç quickly. >> mr. welcwelch, what's your reaction to the speaker of the house having no idea what these votes will mean for millions of americans and a very fragile economy? >> i think the speaker has a good idea -- >> oh, you think he's lying?

>> well, i'd use the fib word. >> you think he's fibbing? >> i think he doesn't want to acknowledge that he's in a jam. i mean, bottom line, the republican mantra is tax cut, tax cut, tax cut. but this is a situation where the president's got boxed in a bit. because it's actually a tax cut for working americans. and these guys are primarily and successfully fighting for the tax cuts for the top 2%. now, he also knows that if we don't have the tax cut, it's going to have an impact on the economy, because conservative and republican economists say it would take about 1% growth off of the already fragile growth rate of 2.5% on our gdp. so i think the speaker knows, but just doesn't want to say, because politically, he's a little bit in a jam. >> and briefly if i can, and finally, republicans say they'll pay for their proposal by freezing the pay of federal civilian workers cutting the federal workforce by roughly 200,000. i mean, does that make any sense? >> well, it would make sense if

they were consistent and they wanted the tax cuts for for millionaires and billionaires to be paid for by taking away their estate tax break or taking away their yachts or do something where they paid for the benefit that the republican tax policy is giving them. obviously, it makes no sense. the point of the tax cut here is to make some folks have more purchasing power, be able to pay their bills. on the one hand, you give them a tax break, and say, we're going to pay for it by lowering your benefits -- >> or even taking away your >> taking away your job, your raise. that's obviously -- >> congressman peter welch from vermont, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. now to a farewell to arms. with a major milestone, the u.s. withdraws from iraq. in the next 24 hours, the u.s. stronghold of camp victory will be no more. u.s. service members will officially turn over all operations to their iraqi counterparts tomorrow. today, vice president biden thanked the troops for their

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going to be mitt and not mitt, i think it may turn out to be newt and not newt. >> do you see what's happening here? we are now at a pivotal moment, a crucial moment in the life of mr. gingrich's campaign. and just like a drunk who thinks he can control his own drinking, everyone knows that newt gingrich finds it very hard to control his own ego and sense of entitlement. and his recent surge is certainly intoxicating. now, to those of us on the outside of this race, it's perfectly obvious as to why mr. gingrich is this month's shooting star. we know that it's not difficult to sound intelligent when you're surrounded by peopleç like ric perry and herman cain. we know that even a third the grade grasp of geography is still better than michele bachmann's. we know having read their books that many of these candidates are the least informed people to ever consider running for public office anywhere in the world. but in the world of newt gingrich, his rise has nothing

whatsoever to do with the rank in competence of his competitors. oh, no. he can only attribute his rise in the polls to one thing, his own outstanding abilities. but if you look carefully at the history of the gop's beloved history professor, you will see a man who repeatedly goes too far and ends up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. he just can't stop himself. whether it's spreading poison through congress, chasing women around the bedroom, or exploiting a never-ending line of credit at tiffany's, he is his own worst enemy. so when he says the race is now between newt and not newt, he's almost right. it's actually newt versus newt. and in this case, there will only ever be one winner, and it won't be newt gingrich. thank you very much, indeed, for watching. dylan ratigan's here to take us forward.