courthouse? >> yep, they're in the right place. >> yeah. a wonderful rant, as always, david. i'll talk to you sooner than later. >> thank you. >> that does it for us. i am dylan ratigan. and "hardball with chris matthews" starts right now. trump pumps, romney regrets. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews out in chicago. leading off tonight, newt gingrich is surging and mitt romney's not. newt's the man to beat right now, in a bevy of new national polls. he's the clear front-runner now in iowa, in south carolina, even down in florida. he's up against the romney machine, however, loaded with cash and highly organized. and romney has now shown the meddle not to do donald trump's bidding. so does mitt have the muscle to win this fight? and what about romney? politico reports today that some

of his supporters want him to spend that cash of his and hit newt hard. with just four weeks until the voting begins in iowa, can romney slow gingrich down? can he land a hard punch? and president obama's taking his re-election hopes on rebuilding america's middle class. he wants higher taxes on the wealthy, tougher rules on wall street, and everyone else to get a fair shot to succeed. republicans can cry class warfare if they want, but as the president put it today, it's about this country's welfare. the president gave that speech today in the same kansas town where teddy roosevelt gave his new nationalism agenda more than 100 years ago. in that speech, roosevelt, a republican, pushed for stronger regulations, bigger government, and higher taxes on the rich. all things today's republican party is dead set against. and let me finish tonight with a sister souljah move by mitt romney. he stood up to donald trump. we start with newt's surge nationwide.

steve schmidt worked on the bush/cheney 2008 campaign. and steve's also an msnbc analyst. and david milbank is political columnist for "the washington post." gentleman, i want you to consider this news out right now, before we get to the strong poll numbers for newt gingrich, let's start with the news breaking this afternoon, late this afternoon. on fox news, mitt romney said he would not be attending donald trump's circus debate later this month. let's listen to mitt. >> no, i'm not participating in that. we have two debates in december that i've agreed to participate in. the rest of the month is going to be spent campaigning, doing the political work you've got to do to get the support of people in iowa and new hampshire, south carolina, florida. so we'll be hitting the trail. i spoke with donald trump earlier today, indicated that we just can't make this debate. >> and what did he say? >> he understood my perspective and wished me well. >> well, there you go. let me go to steve schmidt for

this act of, at least cojones on the part of mitt romney. i have to say i'm impressed by anybody that stands up to this guy. it's not exactly like standing up to rush limbaugh these days, but almost. >> well, good for mitt romney for, a, not debasing himself, and also understanding that the office of president of the united states is one that historically has had great dignity to it. and this has just become a joke. and i think that the candidates who are doing it are doing a great disservice to the party. it's a sign of an unhealthy institution. >> same view i have on this. dana milbank, your view. could this have been -- let's put it this way. could this have been a disaster if he'd knelt before the altar of donald trump? >> of course it was a disaster. it was obviously a trap being set up. you could see that the other candidates were getting ready to pounce on romney some more. you could see newt gingrich, who was a member of donald trump's country club, already getting

together and talk about their new episode of "the apprentice," with the poor kids in the city. this was a very smart thing to do. he shows that he is the grown-up in the republican party. even if he loses, at least he should be losing with some dignity here. but i suspect this will bring the establishment to rally around mitt romney, as i expect -- >> and both of you gentleman, starting with you, dana, believe that he cannot flip on this. once having said no donald trump, he can't go back and a, i change my mind, i'm bowing to the pressure to you. >> no, he just told donald trump he's fired. >> do you agree with that, steve? he has to stick with it? >> absolutely. absolutely. >> let's take a look at the national numbers. gingrich, the big news out besides this is the momentum in a number of new polls nationally. in the gallup tracking poll of republicans, newt gingrich is leading the race for the nomination. look at these numbers. they're starting to build.

37%. up 15 points in the national poll in just two weeks, to mitt romney's stationary 22%. among iowa republicans, and of course that caucus comes up the third of january. the new "washington post" abc poll also has newt surging ahead of his rivals. he's now up to 33% while romney and paul. here's mitt romney tied with ron paul at just 18. in south carolina, a state whose primary has been won by the eventual republican nominee in every election that it has mattered, back in 1980, a winthrop university poll now shows newt on top in that state too. he takes 38% with romney and his usual 22% andown at 9. steve schmidt, your assessment here of this surge by newt. will it carry through christmas, on to january 3rd? >> well, newt gingrich has the ball right now. he is in control of his destiny. one of those things that in the iowa poll that i pointed out is

there's not a lot of awareness yet that, for example, newt gingrich, while railing against the politicians who benefited from fannie and freddie, in fact, took millions of dollars from fannie and freddie. will that reality drop his numbers, i think, is anyone's guess. but at this moment in time, chris, he's like a maestro. he is playing the republican base like a stradivarius violin. he's saying exactly what they want to hear. he's, you know, delivering -- >> okay, a little -- >> -- he's playing it perfectly. >> a little biscentennial momen here on "hardball." here we go. steve, people like me have been blasted, and perhaps fairly, for believering so much in barack obama's rhetorical skills back when he ran for president. perhaps those skills have yet to be met by his executive skills. okay, fair enough. but here's the republican party with round heels for anybody who says the right thing at the current moment. regardless of their record, regardless of their character, and regardless of who they are, it seems that if you say the

right stuff now to the republican ear, steve schmidt, they will say yes. no matter who you are. you can be mitt romney with three marriages and a disastrous speakership, kicked out of the speakership, being reprimanded by the house of representatives and fined and all that stuff, it doesn't matter if you sing the right tune, with the right tone these days. is that what's going on? in other words, they're just as guilty of what we have been accused of in the past on the progressive side, of being -- of swooning over good rhetoric. is this the same deal they're going for? >> i mean, the late, great daniel patrick moynihan said that everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts. i'm not sure that's true anymore, in a social media age, it seems that everyone lives in their own reality. and when you give consideration to newt gingrich, he exists in an alternate reality, at some level. where the things he says are so

diametrically opposed to reality. and the donald trump debate, a lot of people that should have known better for the last years have encouraged and supported this republican whack pack out there. and it could be that the bill is now coming due. because sometimes when you ride the tiger, you wind up inside the tiger. and that could be the issue that the party -- that the party faces as we get ready to potentially nominate someone who's utterly unelectable in a general election contest. >> that would be newt gingrich, i guess. let's go down to dana on this. you're a pretty satirical guy, but it's hard to beat the satire to beat this stuff. newt gingrich says the reason i had unfaithfulness in one of my marriages is because i'm too patriotic. is this the stepford wive party now. the body snatches that they fall the for this. you can say garbage like this and people say, that's pretty interesting. it was patriotism that led you to cheat on your wife. it was patriotism.

what kind of lingo is this that people are falling for these days? >> chris, this has been a maddening race for me to cover, because you can't parody a parody, which is what this has been so far. but i think i'm going to give the republican primary voters a little bit more credit than that, and say, in the end, i still suspect they're going to get it right. because they did get it right with rick perry. they did get it right with herman cain, with michele bachmann. now, it looks like newt's got it here, but there's still plenty of time for that to be exposed during a debate. i've covered this the guy for the last 16 years. i just say whatever the polls say, i know that this is impossible that the republicans are not going to be so suicidal as to hand the election to barack obama. they still got a month or so to figure that out and you just have to think they're going to do it. but it sure would make it interesting if they don't. >> here's rush limbaugh, joining this rush off the cliff, the sheep heading off the cliff, however. here's rush limbaugh. he seemed to be heading towards newt gingrich's support here. praising him yesterday for his skills at cutting the size of

government. let's listen to rush -- well, rush over newt. >> who was the last person to actually cut government? who was the last person who actually led a movement that balanced the federal budget? who was the person that did that? [ hums "jeopardy" tune ] you're not going to take a guess? okay, it was mr. newt! the last guy that gave us the balanced budget. there were a lot of republican guys, kasich was key -- but gingrich was speaker the last time -- the last time there was true welfare reform, the last time government was cut,

gingrich did it! >> i think it was murray griffin who wrote that melody, by the way, steve schmidt and dana, but here he was singing the "jeopardy!" song or humming it there. "jeopardy!'s" a good name for a quiz show, but not a very good slogan for a campaign. steve, to get back to your point a moment ago, do you think rush limbaugh is going to join this cattle stampede off the cliff for newt? >> i don't know. he went all in against john mccain. didn't make much of a difference four years ago. but what i find interesting about it is that he assails mitt romney, for example, for all manner of conservative heresies, but i guess it's okay for newt gingrich to have been in commercials talking about global warming with nancy pelosi three years ago. there's a fundamental disconnect between what newt gingrich says on the trail and what newt gingrich has actually done with his record. and it's amazing when you consider the scope of the intellectual dishonesty by the people who police the definition of conservatism today.

>> you know, i have to go back to the picture we're watching. you guys can't see it on the screen, i don't think. but there's a picture of donald trump, sort of as the grand vizere here, overlooking his new pupil, or his new disciple, i should say, newt gingrich. it's amazing. look at this picture. if you had the to say a year ago or two years ago, or 15 minutes ago. what's happening here? here's newt gingrich standing behind the guy who's accepted as this grand marshal of the parade, but some kind of judge of who should be fired and who should be made one of donald trump's apprentices, in other words, a presidential candidate, dana. you can't make this up. >> no, you thinkn'can't. the republicans have the tea party to thank for this. they wanted someone that would be very opposite of barack obama, and by extension, the very opposite of mitt romney,

which is what created this whole circus in the first place. now the only alternative to mitt romney for the rush limbaugh of the world is newt gingrich. on the other hand, you have the likes of glenn beck saying, the heck with all of them. he's sort of going a lost cause of michele bachmann. there's a lot of disillusionment on the right now, but they've essentially caused it by eliminating all these legitimate candidates in the first place. >> yeah, well, in the country suburbs, millions of people in the suburbs of philadelphia and new york and chicago and cleveland and all around the country, middle of the road voter who is thought they were going to have an option in the upcoming presidential campaign, if they were a little bit disappointed with president obama, perhaps still hopeful, but disappointed, they thought they might get a choice. it looks like the republican party is in no mood to give them a reasonable choice with this clown show going on right now, from the likes of, well, newt gingrich and donald trump. what a duo. thank you, steve schmidt. thank you, dana milbank. coming up, no matter who the republicans actually end up nominating, president obama is betting now on a campaign

strategy of fairness. he wants the middle class in this country to get a fair shake. he wants wall street to play by the rules and he wants the wealthy to pay their fair share. all reasonable proposals. but can he put some bite behind this? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. with investment information, risks, fees and expenses ♪ when your chain of supply goes from here to shanghai, that's logistics. ♪ ♪ chips from here, boards from there track it all through the air,

that's logistics. ♪ ♪ clearing customs like that hurry up no time flat that's logistics. ♪ ♪ all new technology ups brings to me, that's logistics. ♪ some breaking news now. the administrator of the federal aviation administration is resigning after a dui arrest. let's go right now to nbc's tom costello in washington. >> chris, you may recall on sunday night, randy babbitt, the head of the faa was arrested in virginia and accused of driving under the influence for driving on the wrong side of the road. he did not notify the department of transportation, and specifically, the secretary, until yesterday, midday. he was then suspended and now he has resigned. he resigned and his resignation has been accepted. this was really untenable for mr. babbitt.

he runs the faa. of course, they have been dealing with drunk pilots and sleeping hair traffic controllers. the faa is part of the department of transportation, which has a zero tolerance policy on drunk driving, has been working to eradicate it. so his arrest on saturday night on charges of dui really was something that the department of transportation simply could not continue to allow and he -- he knew that his time was up. the writing was on the wall yesterday. he had an illustrious career, of course. 25 years as a pilot. and then he came to run the faa under president obama and now he is out. no word yesterday on who his replacement might be. back to you. >> tom costello in washington. thank you, tom. we'll be right back. in louisiana. they came to see us in florida... nice try, they came to hang out with us in alabama... once folks heard mississippi had the welcome sign out, they couldn't wait to get here. this year was great but next year's gonna be even better.

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i believe that this country succeeds when everyone gets a fair shot. when everyone does their fair share. when everyone plays by the same rules.

these aren't democratic values or republican values. these aren't 1% values or 99% values. they're american values. and we have to reclaim them. >> welcome back to "hardball." today president obama gave a hint, as you just heard, of the framing of his 2012 election message. it's about fairness, as you just heard, and obama's location was the same kansas town when republican president theodore roosevelt delivered his new nationalism speech, in which he called for increased corporate regulations and federal help for the poor and middle class. can president obama win with this message more than a century later? nia-malika henderson covers politics for "the washington post" and ron reagan is a political commentator and author of "my father at 100 hurrica." i want to start with ron on this. it looks like the president everyone seems to be saying today is testing a vehicle for re-election.

and that is to restore the strength of the shrinking middle class, which is under tremendous pressure in terms of salaries being held down, some inflation, tremendous job insecurity, high unemployment, housing prices with the homes values of most people now below their mortgage. all the pressures you can think of, from elderly they have to take care of, from kids they're still worrying about have failed to launch. think of all the problems, we've got them, and the middle class has them the worst. >> he's very good at identifying problems. and i think it was not a bad idea to wrap himself in the mantel of teddy roosevelt. he's been assuming a sort of progressive mantel, and he ticked off some large and systemic problems that this country faces. the quibble i have with president obama is, and i think some other people will have it too, is that the rhetoric is fine. and identifying the problem is fine, but to use a football analogy, he sort of pushes it into the red zone, and then tends to settle for a field goal. i know this wasn't a policy speech or anything, by i kept

waiting, when he was talking about politicians, essentially, who were on the take, you know, from special interests or bankers who were playing fast and loose with the rules and all that, so i was waiting for the, so we're going to do, ugh, what?! what are we going to do? it's not enough to just encourage people to be better. >> yeah, where are the teeth marks? >> exactly. >> anyway, my question to you, nia. i expect some attitude from you on this, as well as report welcome nia. it seems to me that the president is saying, he's almost tacking it against the wind here, though. i've never heard a president in bad times running against, let's face it, that's what he's doing here, running against bad times, when he's the presiding officer. isn't that a bit tricky? >> yeah, it is tricky. and i think ron's absolutely right on this. this was heavy on rhetoric, not big on solutions. he talked about education being important, he talked about some regulations against banks making bad bets. but a lot of it was something that we'd heard before. again, he's wrapping himself, obviously, in the mantel of a

republican president, although i'm not quite sure that roosevelt was really republican at that time, but this is something that we've seen from this president before. he will please his base in a lot of ways. but i think in some ways, we're past the point of big speeches, and it's time for this president to actually do something. and i thought he was great out on the stump when he was able to do something and talk about these executive actions that he was making around student loans and around mortgages. but i think one of the most positive things that he did for democrats in this is really lay out a contrast between his party, the democrats, versus the republicans. right before this speech, you had nancy pelosi send out this e-mail that said, basically, the republicans were the party of the 1%. in this speech, he very much co-opted occupy wall street. and i think in some ways, implicitly cast newt gingrich and mitt romney as these characters and these figures of the rich, and of the 1%. so i think, in that way, he was able to really, you know, paint a real big picture, a real

contrast between himself, the democrats, and what the republicans might want to do. >> well, we had debbie wasserman schultz on last night, the chair of the party, as well as a member of congress from florida. and it looks like they're beginning to work together, if speaker pelosi and the leader of the house are all working with the president, they're beginning to act like they're in the same political party, which is a good sign for them and the country. president obama emphasized that the stakes couldn't be higher for the middle class these days. let's listen to him. >> but also, osawatomie, this is not just another political debate. this is the defining issue of our time. this is a make-or-break moment for the middle class, and for all those who are fighting to get into the middle class. because what's at stake is whether this will be a country where working people can earn enough to raise a family, build a modest savings, own a home,

secure their retirement. >> well, there you go again, ron. all the good things for a party based on the middle class. and yet you hear these stories that they're going to give up on ohio, perhaps pennsylvania. they're headed to the new economy, people, in north carolina, virginia, colorado. is this a bread and butter democrat speaking here or what? or no? >> well, that remains to be seen. you know, time will tell, and his actions will tell much more than his words. we've all heard the speeches before. as nia said, you know, we've heard this rhetoric before. and it's all fine. as i said, he's identifying correctly some of the problems. but these are big, systemic problems that have to do with corruption and basic insurance with the financial sector, health insurance, and our political system. this is not going to go away, because you jawbone somebody or got on the bully pulpit. this requires that the entire paradime be rethought, if you will. fundamental changes be made in

the system. and i'm not sure that -- well, i know that rhetoric alone is not going to do that. on the other hand, he is -- he's tied into the zeitgeist the right way. like i said, you know, poll after poll has shown that most people want taxes on the rich to go up and most people identify republicans with the party that is all about favoring the rich. >> no, with i think you're right. i think in some ways, i think he did still have trouble channeling some of the passion. i mean, he was more woodrow wilson in this speech than he was teddy roosevelt, in terms of his spirit and emphasis and passion. and i think that's going to be a challenge for not only him, but obviously, whoever's on the other side. >> i guess a lot of people watching right now are hoping he'll take that ball across the goal line run and not settle for the field goal. i do love your notion, because i've seen some football teams around where i live playing that way, and nothing's more depressing than first and three and having to kick. ending up having to kick. anyway, thank, nia-malika

henderson and ron reagan. up next -- of course, the stakes are a lot higher here than in a football game. mitt romney knows a flip-flopper when he sees one. we've dug up video back in 2004 using the same kind of critique most people use against him against somebody else -- john kerry. stick around for the sideshow. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] every day, thousands of people are choosing advil®. here's one story. [ regis ] we love to play tennis. as a matter of fact it was joy who taught me how to play tennis. and with it comes some aches and pains and one way to relieve them all is to go right to the advil®.

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no thanks, i'm good. ♪ i think i'm falling ♪ i think i'm falling [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ for you [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. shop our largest diamond store online anytime at zales.com. back to "hardball." now for the sideshow. first up, from speaker to speaker. newt gingrich and nancy pelosi were definitely not kidding in the opening lines to the ad they worked on back in 2008 to raise awareness about global warming. >> we don't always see eye to eye, do we, newt? >> no. >> not always eye to eye. sounds like an underestimation, given the war of words that got underway late last week. on friday, nancy pelosi spoke

with talking points memo about the implications of newt winning the gop nomination. saying, "i like barney frank's quote the best, where he said, i never thought i'd live such a good life that i would see newt gingrich be the nominee of the republican party. one of these days we'll have a conversation about newt gingrich," speaker pelosi said, . four of us locked in an undisclosed location in a room for a year. a thousand pages of his stuff." newt was quick to pounce on that one. let's listen. >> i want to thank speaker pelosi for what i regard as an early christmas. if she's suggesting she's going to use materials she uncovered in an ethics committee, that's a fundamental violation of the rules of the house. >> so does nancy pelosi intend to release a trove of secret information about the former speaker? here's her official answer. "leader pelosi was clearly referring to the extensive

amount of information that is in the public record, including the comprehensive committee report with which the public may not be fully aware." this is the sort of sharp, pointed, threatening counterpunch would deliver, let's face it, in a presidential debate with barack obama. pay attention, everyone. and finally, which gop candidate comes to mind when it comes to waffling on both sides of key issues? mitt romney, maybe? well, back in the 2004 race, romney was the one going after a democratic candidate for, get this, flip-flopping. here's what he said about john kerry back in 2004. let's listen. >> when you're running for office, you look at your opponent's record and you find some place where he or she has changed position and you say he's a flip-flopper, and that's a pretty standard thing. but in this case, this guy really is. i won't go through that whole list, but it's really kpoo extraordinary. i try to find why it is he finds it so difficult to come down on

one side of an issue. instead, kind of floats between both issues. he's with an audience he wants to identify with and satisfy that audience and he says what he thinks they want to hear. we laugh and joke about that kind of inconsistency and vacillation. and yet as we look at the times that we face, it's really not a joking matter. >> wow, the pot calling the kettle black. lessons from an expert. sounds more like a personal reflection, doesn't it, about himself? up next, as gingrich surges, romney and his supporters are starting to sweat, although i've never seen romney sweat. with just four weeks to go before iowa, should mitt hit newt hard now? you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc.

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gains after a report that eu officials are considering aggressive moves to contain the euro crisis. the dow jones industrials climbing 52 points. the s&p 500 up just a point. and the nasdaq slipping by 6. the financial times reporting today that the eurozone ministers are discussing a three-pronged approach to calming panic. instead of replacing the original efsf with a new version called the esm. they're also going to promote easier access to funds. in stocks, general electric surging on an analyst upgrade that predicted solid results from its financial services arm, ge capital. but netflix slipping after verizon announcing plans to launch its own video streaming service that could reach as many as 85 million households in the united states. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. i'm going to hand you back over to "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." as we discussed earlier, mitt romney said no to donald trump this afternoon. the candidate said he won't attend what promises to be one of the silliest political circus events of the campaign. donald trump's so-called debate later this month. well, romney's decision stands in contrast to his chief rival and the front-runner in the current polls, newt gingrich, who, of course, plans on attending that circus up with donald trump. some romney supporters have come to view gingrich asreat according to politico toback,s panicking, yet. but to many, especially among the gop donor elite, gingrich looks like romney's most formidable opponent to date, and a rival who requires a much more serious response than the previous conservative alternative, herman cain." well, there are four weeks until the iowa caucuses right now. does mitt romney have the time to turn the corner and wage a

more aggressive, hard-hitting campaign against newt gingrich to stop him in his tracks? and how will his decision not to attend donald trump's event play with republican voters? well, chris cillizza is managing editor of postpolitics.com and an msnbc contributor, and maggie haberman is a senior political writer for politico. i want to start with maggie. maggie, it's very interesting to try to find the power in the republican party. you know, in the previous cycles, i'd refer to it like a lot of us, sarcastically, as the white boy's club, a group of governors, perhaps, who would meet somewhere, at some club somewhere, and sort of give the official okay to whoever the candidate was, particularly george w. or someone like that, or his father. now the power vortex seems to be coming either from radio in the voice of rush limbaugh or this manhattan project of donald trump. i mean, where is the republican power base today that seems to be, well, influencing the selection process?

>> well, you know, what's very interesting is you're seeing, i think, that power in places like "national review" and certainly you're seeing karl rove go on fox news and say what he thinks. i think that's where you're seeing the power structure. you have republican elites urging mitt romney not to take part in this trump debate. i think if he didn't do it by today, it would have started to have diminishing returns. and this is the first clear contrast point you're seeing with mitt romney to newt gingrich. i think this is the attempt to show newt gingrich as sort of not serious. i think you're going to the see other things, like that. but i think that, you know, the risk for mitt romney is that he is giving in, essentially, to what the elites wanted, and he's already seen as the elite candidate, but i don't think he had much of a choice. >> i guess it's the way we look at it. you might be right. you believe that the establishment in the republican party is still the bush household guy, retainer, karl rove, that's the new establishment. i'm looking at the media part, maybe because i'm on, and i look at people like limbaugh and his

power to get these people to eat their own words. you know, month after month, you know, we've heard people say things that don't square with limbaugh's thinking, and then they've got to go crawling back to him and say, i'm sorry, rush, you're the greatest man on earth. and this time around, i thought that mitt might do it to donald trump. let me go over to chris on this, chris cillizza. who do you think he was feeling the heat from? the media power of new york, in the face of trump, unfortunately for new york, perhaps, but he is mr. manhattan, or the power from the texas crowd and the power of george w. and his people? >> well, i think if it's either of those, chris, it's the latter, which is kind of the establishment saying, don't do this. but i would say -- i would give mitt romney some credit here in that i think he looks at this debate, and i use that word lightly, because right now i think you only have newt gingrich and rick santorum, so it's kind of a conversation -- >> i think bachmann's a more -- i think congresswoman bachmann -- >> you have three people involved.

if you're mitt romney's campaign, i'm not sure you need the establishment or the rush limbaugh of the world to put that much pressure on you, to be honest. because why would you do this? we all know what this is going to turn into. a vehicle for donald trump to talk about donald trump and what donald trump wants to talk about. so it seems to me that this is a no-brainer, if you're mitt romney, not to do -- i mean, i think if he had done it, there would no doubt be tut-tutting among the party establishment, but i don't think that's what he was afraid of. i think he just looked at it and said, this makes no sense for him to do. it's sponsored by news max, running on a network lots of people don't get. why would we raise the possibility that if we're going to put our fate in the hands of donald trump five or six days before the caucuses. >> you're right, there's only two entrants right now, officially, and of course, that's newt gingrich and rick santorum. bachmann says, in her words, her people's words, are looking at. go ahead, maggie. >> sorry.

i was just going to say, i think there was some downside in the mind of the romney advisers, which is that donald trump and you put it this way in terms of sort of the approach that gets taken on conservative radio, et cetera. donald trump also follows that. he goes on television and he's very critical of candidates, if he doesn't think they're doing the right thing. and i think there is a fear of that. donald trump in his own book referenced that herman cain left a meeting with him and said to someone, i'm just afraid he's going to trash me, so i want him to like me. i think that was a concern for the romney people, that it was not outweighed by the negatives of taking part. >> i guess it's because, guys, it's always -- i see romney bowing to whatever wind seems to be blowing, or to whatever golden idle they're supposed to worship at that moment. in this moment, he said, no, thank. here's mitt romney, by the way. he didn't totally ignore newt gingrich. here he is this afternoon on fox news taking a swipe at him. let's watch him perhaps beginning to go to blow with the newtster. >> speaker gingrich is a friend. i respect him, but we have very different life experiences.

and if the american people believe that what we need is someone who's spent the last 40 years or so in washington, d.c., working as an insider, why, he's the right guy. if they, instead, want someone from outside washington to come into that place and fix it and get america on track once again to move away from a government dominated society to a people dominated society, where people and freedom get to choose their course, i'm the right person. >> i don't think that's the theme or the tone of republican anger right now, chris, and then maggie. this guy's got the tool kit -- i'm going under the hood to fix the car, doesn't seem like the mood of most rabid republicans and tea party people. they're angry, they want to go to blows with barack obama, even before they knock him out. they want to go to blow with him. >> chris, first of all, you're right. and i think it's indicative -- newt gingrich's success in this race has been largely defined by his success in these debates. his rise has been entirely fueled by the fact that while herman cain has collapsed, rick perry has collapsed, michele bachmann has collapsed,

conservatives don't want mitt romney, and in these debates, newt gingrich looks like a reasonable alternative. why has newt done so well in the debates? because he throws red meat like it's going out of style. we need to fire ben bernanke. the media is against us. the fundamentals of your question are stupid. republicans love that. remember when rick perry was calling barack obama a socialist in one of the debates a few weeks back, i can't keep track of them, there's too many, but in one of the debates. the moderator went right to newt -- excuse me, to mitt romney and said, governor romney, do you agree, is president obama a socialist? is his administration guided by socialist principles? mitt romney did not say the word, kind of moved along, because he's not willing to throw that kind of red meat. they're making a gamble that the mr. fix-it will work. i think to lots of people in the republican party, it's fueled by newt gingrich's rise want the red meat thrower. they want the guy who's going to take it to president obama. >> last word to you, maggie, can you win the republican nomination if you talk like you're going for the general

election voter? >> i think it's really hard. i think what chris said absolutely right. and as you're saying, it's right. i think you have to have passion. i think that's what primary voters have wanted to see. they want a combination of someone who is throwing red meat, but also seems presidential. and right now gop voters are saying they can seat newt gingrich in that role. >> he's winning on that question of who's a better bet to win, which i think is a critical question. if electability becomes the strength of newt beginning rich, i don't know what to say anymore about politics. thank you, chris cillizza. i'm out of words, anyway. thank you, chris cillizza, thank you, maggie. up next, president obama tried to channel teddy roosevelt in his speech today. we've got an expert here. roosevelt's a favorite of republicans, but he also called for bigger governments in many ways. graduated tax on inheritance, all kinds of things that sound a bit more like today's democrat. by the way, let's hear from an expert on him coming up right now, doris kearns goodwin. she's writing a book on teddy roosevelt and she'll be on "hardball" in just a minute. the mighty turducken.

nature's majestic beast. [ both laugh ] ♪ ♪

well, even the best have fallen. former utah governor jon huntsman has been a voice of reason in the republican field, most people think, but it hasn't gotten him anywhere in the polls. so now he's changing his tune about climate change. let's listen to what he said today at the heritage foundation. >> i'm not a scientist, nor am i a physicist, but i would defer to science in that discussion. and i would say that the scientific community owes us more in terms of a better description or explanation about what might lie beneath all of this. but there's not enough information right now to be able to form late policies. >> is he going to give up on evolution next? by the way, that's a stark contrast to the position he took, mr. huntsman did in august, fairly recently, when he tweeted that he trusts scientists on global warming and he said, call me crazy, back then, i believe in evolution and climate change. he's joining the pack, he's joining the clown show. we'll be right back.

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then you trade tokens for credits. and then i get the cash? then you call back. bye bye. peggy? hello? what just happened? want rewards that make sense? switch to discover. america's #1 cash rewards program. it pays to discover. and we still believe in the words of the man who called for a new nationalism all those years ago. the fundamental rule of our national life, he said, the rule which underlies all others is that on the whole and in the long run we shall go up or down together. and i believe america is on the way up. thank you. god bless you. god bless the united states of america. >> we're back. that president obama earlier this afternoon in kansas evoking

the spirit of teddy roosevelt in the same kansas town where t.r. himself gave his powerful new nationalism speech 100 years ago. obama's speech is an attempt apparently to make clear the middle class is facing a make-or-break economic moment right now as he continues to fight republicans on his agenda items, like the payroll tax cut and invoking roosevelt, a republican roosevelt, by the way, is a clear attempt to paint his opponents as far right extremists outside the republican mainstream. doris kearns goodwin is the presidential historian and joins us now to talk about obama and teddy roosevelt. well, are you doing to him what i'm doing to him with jack kennedy, saying be more like jack? i think somebody whispered in his ear, maybe somebody i know, he ought to talk like the republican roosevelt, the guy who really invented basically progressivism, and that word has become so popular among people along for years who called themselves liberals. >> it could be that i'm living with teddy roosevelt right now,

but i do think there's a real message that can be gotten from teddy roosevelt because really what teddy roosevelt had to fight after decades of being laissez-faire, arguing that the government had a role in equality, the robber barrons, the trust that we're developing, he had to persuade them, the threshold argument he had to persuade them in order to regulate corporations and do the antitrust and do food and drug and get child labor laws through, and in a certain sense obama today facing similar kind of turmoil, the squeezing of the middle class, giant mergers, antitrust problems, very big situation between the inequality of the rich and the poor, has to re-persuade america, that government, all of us, have a role to work on together. if he can't do that, then none of the programs he'll argue for will have any real legitimate >> i do you think the republican party is as bad now in terms of being owned by wall street as the republican party that teddy roosevelt inherited and warned

against? >> well, the incredible thing is you think about here we are 100 years ago and teddy roosevelt has to fight a party where at that time you had guys who were actually representing the sugar trust, representing the copper trust. they would be called the senator from maine is the copper trust guy. the senator from virginia is the railroad guy so it was much more blatant than it was then but argument that government has a role in order to deal with these inequalities had to be fought then and still has to be fought right now, and i think what was so interesting about the speech is that teddy roosevelt used to talk about the fact that some of his harvard buddies thought that he spoke in too commonplace and simple language, but he knew he would reach the farmers and working men with that kind of simple language. i think obama was not professorial today, spoke in simple, declarative languages, this is wrong, this is right and inexcuse able, and it reached an audience that in sometimes previous speeches that were great to read like paragraphs had not done, so i think he's on the track. i think in a certain sense he

extended the time frame for the election. think about what the main question is everybody is asked, are you better off now than you were four years ago? he was saying look at the last decade. two tax decades, are we better off? better growth? no, the worst in 50 years so i think that's his strategy. >> put on your political analysis hat, not the historian hat. can a president win with rhetoric after four years or are you judged by performance not the angle with which you enter the debate? >> well, clearly what he's going to have to do is to have the big stick to follow the rhetoric, as teddy roosevelt did, which means he may have to exercise the veto power and make certain threats. he doesn't have control of the congress right now, but he's going to act strongly and fiercely in those last months of his presidency, but we're into a time now where it is rhetoric. what do we have in the next 12 months because not much is going to get done except the veto power, and he can exercise that. that's his big stick. >> doris kearns goodwin, making the case for her book. when's the book coming out? teddy roosevelt?

>> oh, god, wish it were now, not for another year, year and a half. always way behind the time. >> you're the best. thanks so much, doris kearns goodwin. great american historian. when we come back, let me finish were why rite romney is right to reject donald trump's circus show. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. new revolutionary scope dualblast obliterates strong food odors leaving your breath minty fresh. hey. [ male announcer ] so there's no trace of evidence... new scope dualblast. really? 25 grams of protein. what do we have? all four of us, together? 24. he's low fat, too, and has 5 grams of sugars. i'll believe it when i--- [ both ] oooooh... what's shakin'? [ female announcer ] as you get older, protein is an important part of staying active and strong. new ensure high protein... fifty percent of your daily value of protein. low fat and five grams of sugars. see? he's a good egg. [ major nutrition ] new ensure high protein. ensure! nutrition in charge!

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let me finish tonight with this. the republican party is in the midst of a convulsion right now. reasonable people are standing

back and watching as the party is being taken away from them. blame the tea party, blame the times, but the fact is, and we can see it happening. much of the political opposition out there to president obama is many bamboozled into believing that its only future lies in bowing to the dictate of a selection process that is leading it right now to the tender mercies of donald trump. for this not to happen republicans of sound mind and personal dignity must refuse to participate in trump's big night, refuse to let him become the grand ole party's grand frazier, to not be at his beck and call and resist all the pr and the new york hype and say you're not going to let him play host, judge, moderator or whatever the word is on this vital eve of the republican caucus and primary season. for romney especially this presented a challenge and an opportunity. if he'd shown up at donald trump's beckoning, he might as we will have arrived wearing a had with bells jingling from it. he would have become one of the