toure, the most versatile msnbc contributor on the team. thank you for joining. >> thank you. "hardball" is next. trump pumps, romney regrets. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews. out in chicago leading off tonight, newt gingrich is surging and mitt romney is not. newt is the man to beat right now in a bevy of new national polls. he's the clear front runner in iowa, in south carolina, even down in florida. he's up against the romney machine loaded with cash and highly organized. and romney has now shown the mettle not to do donald trump's bidding. so does mitt have the muscle to win this fight? and what about romney. politico reports today that some of his supporters want him to

spend that cash of his and hit newt hard. with just four weeks until the voting begins in iowa, can romney slow gingrich down? can he land a hard punch? and president obama is taking his re-election hopes on rebuilding america's middle class. he wants higher taxes on the wealthy, tougher rules on wall street and everyone else to get a fair shot to succeed. republicans can cry class warfare if they want, but as the president put it today, it's about this country's welfare. the president gave that speech today in the same kansas town where teddy roosevelt gave his new nationalism agenda more than 100 years ago. in that speech roosevelt, a republican, pushed for stronger regulations, bigger government and higher taxes on the rich, all things -- he stood up to donald trump. we start with newt's surge nationwide. republican strategist steve schmidt worked on the

bush-cheney 2004 campaign and ran the 2008 mccain campaign. steve is also an msnbc analyst. dana milbank is a politico columnist for the "washington post." gentlemen, i want you to consider this. let's start with the news breaking this afternoon. late this afternoon. on fox news, mitt romney said he would not be attending donald trump's circus debate later this month. let's listen to mitt. >> no, i'm not participating in that. we have two debates in december that i've agreed to participate in. the rest of the month is going to be spent campaigning, doing the political work you've got to do to get the support of people in iowa and new hampshire, south carolina, florida. so we'll be hitting the trail. i spoke with donald trump earlier today, indicated that we just can't make this debate. >> and what did he say? >> he understood my perspective and wished me well. >> well, there you go. let me go to steve schmidt for this active at least cajones on

the part of mitt romney. i'm impressed by anybody that stands up to this guy. it's not exactly like standing up to rush limbaugh these days, but almost. >> well, good for mitt romney for, a, not debasing himself and also for understanding that the office of president of the united states is one that historically has had great dignity to it. and this has just become a joke. i think that the candidates who are doing it are doing a great disservice to the party. it's a sign of an unhealthy institution. >> the same view i have on this. dana milbank, your view. could this have been -- let's put it this way. could this have been a disaster if he had knelt before the altar of donald trump? >> of course it was a disaster. it was obviously a trap being set up. you can see that the other candidates were getting ready to pounce on romney some more. you could see newt gingrich, who is a member of donald trump's country club, already getting

together and talking about their new episode of "the apprentice" with the poor kids in the city. this was a very smart thing to do. he shows that he is the grownup in the republican party. even if he loses, at least he should be losing with some dignity here, but i suspect this will bring the establishment to rally around mitt romney -- >> both the gentlemen, starting with you, dana, believe he cannot flip on this. once having said no to donald trump, he can't go back and say i changed my mind, i'm bowing to the pressure from you? >> no, he just told donald trump, you're fired, and he's not coming off that job now. >> do you agree with that, steve? >> absolutely. >> he has to be martin luther on this one. >> absolutely. >> the big news is the momentum in a number of new polls nationally. in the gallup tracking poll of republicans, newt gingrich is leading the race for the nomination. look at these numbers, they're starting to build. 37%, up 15 points in just two

weeks to mitt romney's stationary 22%. among iowa republicans, of course that caucus comes up the 3rd of january, the new washington post/abc poll has newt surging ahead of his rivals. he's up to 33% while romney and paul -- here's mitt romney tied with ron paul at just 18. in south carolina, a state whose primary has been won by the eventual republican nominee in every election that it has mattered back in 1980, a winthrop university poll now shows newt on top in that state too. he takes 38% with romney in his usual 22%. and perry well behind them both down at 9. steve schmidt your assessment of this surge by newt. will it carry through christmas on to january 3rd? >> well, newt gingrich has the ball right now. he is in control of his destiny. one of those things that -- in the iowa poll is there's not a lot of awareness yet that newt

gingrich while railing against the politicians who benefitted from fannie and freddie in fact took millions of dollars from fannie and freddie. will that reality drop his numbers i think is anyone's guess. at this moment in time he is like a maestro. he is playing the republican base like a stradivarius violin. he's saying exactly what they want to hear. he's delivering -- he's playing it perfectly. >> okay. a little by centennial moment here on "hardball." here we go. steve, people like me have been blasted and perhaps fairly for believing so much of barack obama's rhetorical skills back when he ran for president. perhaps those skills have yet to be met by his executive skills. okay, fair enough. but here's the republican party with round heels for anybody who says the right thing at the current moment, regardless of their record, regardless of their character and regardless of who they are. it seems that if you say the

right stuff to the republican ears, steve schmidt, they will say yes, no matter who you are. you can be mitt romney with three marriages and a disastrous speakership, kicked out of the speakership, being reprimanded by the house of representatives and fined and all that stuff. it doesn't matter if you sing the right tune with the right tone these days. is that what's going on? in other words, they're just as. >> of -- guilty of what wee been accused of, of swooning over good rhetoric. is this the same thing? >> the late great daniel patrick moynihan said everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. i'm not sure that's true anymore. it seems everyone lives in their own reality. when you give consideration to newt gingrich, he exists in an alternate reality at some level, where the things he says are so die metrically opposed to the record. we talked about the donald trump debate.

a lot of people who should have known better for the last three and a half years have -- you know, have supported, have encouraged this republican wack pack out there and it could be that the bill is now coming due. because sometimes when you ride the tiger, you wind up inside the tiger. and that could be the issue that the party -- that the party faces as we get ready to potentially nominate someone who's utterly unelectable in a general election contest. >> that would be newt gingrich on that. let me go to dana on this. it's hard to come up with satire to beat this stuff. newt gingrich said the reason i had unfaithfulness in one of my marriages is because i was too patriotic. does that mean people -- is this the stepford wife political party now? are they the buddy snatchees that they ball for this? you can actually say garbage like this and people, oh, that's pretty interesting. it was patriotism that led you to cheat on your wife. it was patriotism.

>> chris, this has been a maddening race for me to cover because you can't parody a parody. which is what this has been so far. i think i'm going to give the republican primary voters a little more credit than that and say in the end i still suspect they're going to get it right, because they did get it right with rick perry. they did get it right with herman cain, with michele bachmann. now, it looks like newt has got it here, but there's still plenty of time for that to be exposed during the debate. i covered this guy the last 16 years. i know this is impossible the republicans will not be so suicidal as to hand the election to barack obama. they have still got a month or so to figure that out. you just have to think they're going to do it but it sure would make it interesting if they don't. >> here's rush limbaugh joining this rush off the cliff, the sheep heading off the cliff. he seemed to be heading toward newt gingrich support here, praising him yesterday for his skills at cutting the size of government. let's listen to rush -- well, rush over newt.

>> who was the last person to actually cut government? who was the last person who actually led a movement that balanced the federal budget? who was the person that did that? you're not going to take a guess? you're right, it was mr. newt. the last guy who gave us a balanced budget. now, there are a lot of other republicans. gingrich was speaker the last time this budget -- the last time there was true welfare reform, the last time government was cut, gingrich did it.

>> i think it was merv griffin who wrote that melody, by the way, steve schmidt and dana but he was singing the jeopardy song or humming it. jeopardy is a good quiz show but not a good slogan for a campaign. do you think, steve, do you think that rush limbaugh is going to join this cattle stampede off the cliff for newt? >> i don't know. he went all in against john mccain, didn't make much of a difference four years ago. what i find interesting about it is that he asails mitt romney, for example, for all manner of -- conservative but it's okay for newt gingrich talking with nancy pelosi. it's amazing when you consider the scope of the intellectual dishonesty by the people who policed the definition of conservatism today.

>> i have to go back to the picture we're watching. there's a picture of donald trump overlooking his new pupil, or his new disciple, i should say, newt gingrich. look at this picture. it's an amazing -- if you had to say a year ago or two years ago or 15 minutes ago, what is happening here? here's newt gingrich standing beside the guy that is not the grand marshal of his parade but some kind of judge of who should be made one of donald trump's apprentices, in other words, a presidential candidate, dana. you can't make this up. >> no, you can't. the republicans have the tea party to thank for this. they wanted somebody who would be the very opposite of barack obama and by extension the very opposite of mitt romney, which is what created this whole circus in the first place. now the only alternative to mitt

romney for the rush limbaughs of the world is newt gingrich. on the other hand, you have the likes of glen beck saying the heck with all them. he's going sort of a lost cause of michele bachmann. there's a lot of disillusionment on the right but they have caused it by eliminating all of these legitimate candidates in the first place. >> millions of people in the suburbs of philadelphia and new york and chicago and cleveland and all around the country, middle of the road voters who thought they were going to have an option in the upcoming presidential campaign, if they were a little bit disappointed with president barack obama, perhaps hopeful but still disappointed, it looked like they would get a choice. it looks like the republican party is not going to give them a choice with this clown show going on with the likes of newt gingrich and donald trump. what a duo. thank you, steve schmidt, thank you, dana milbank. coming up, no matter who the rips end up nominating, president obama is betting on a campaign strategy of fairness.

he wants the middle class to get a fair shake. he wants wall street to play by the rules and he wants the wealthy to pay their fair share. all reasonable proposals. can he put some bite into this, though? not just good talk, but bite and fight. you're watching "hardball" only on msnbc. woohoo! whoa. haircolor is a chore no more! you gotta come see what's new. c'mon! tadaaa! welcome to haircolor heaven. aa-ah-ahhh! courtesy of new nice 'n easy colorblend foam. permanent, dimensional color, now in a delightful foam! just three shakes, foam it, love it! simply saturate hair root to tip, front to back. with tones and highlights. it's foamtastic! home haircolor, make room for foam haircolor! new nice 'n easy colorblend foam. your right color.

some breaking news now. the administrator of the federal aviation administration is resigning after a dwi arrest. let's go right now to nbc's tom costello in washington. >> reporter: chris, you may recall that on saturday night randy babbitt, the head of the faa, was arrested in virginia and accused of driving under the influence for driving on the wrong side of the road. he did not notify the department of transportation, and specifically the secretary, until yesterday midday. he was then suspended and now he has resigned. he resigned and his resignation has been accepted. this was really untenable for mr. babbitt. he runs the faa.

of course they have been dealing with drunk pilots and sleeping air traffic controllers. the faa is part of the department of transportation which has a zero tolerance policy on drunk driving, has been working to eradicate it. so his arrest on saturday night on charges of dwi really was something that the department of transportation simply could not continue to allow and he -- he knew that his time was up. the writing was on the wall yesterday. he had an illustrious career, 25 years as a pilot and then came to run the faa under president obama and now he is out. no word yet on who his replacement might be. back to you. >> tom costello in washington. thank you, tom. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] when a moment suddenly turns romantic, men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. even if it doesn't happen every day, you can be ready anytime the moment's right, because you take a clinically proven low-dose tablet every day.

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i believe that this country succeeds when everyone gets a fair shot. when everyone does their fair share. when everyone plays by the same rules.

these aren't democratic values or republican values. these aren't 1% values or 99% values. they're american values. and we have to reclaim them. >> welcome back to "hardball." today president obama gave a hint, as you just heard, of the framing of his 2012 election message. it's about fairness, as you just heard, and obama's location was the same kansas town where republican president theodore roosevelt delivered his new nationalism speech, in which he called for increased corporate regulations and federal help for the poor and middle class. can president obama win with this message more than a century later? malika henderson covers politics for the "washington post" and ron reagan is author of "my father at 100." it looks like the president and everyone seems to be saying he is testing the re-election. the strength of the middle class

is under tremendous pressure in terms of salaries being held down, some inflation, tremendous job insecurity, high unemployment, housing problems with the home values of most people below their mortgage, all the pressures you can think of from elderly to take care of to kids who have failed to launch. think of all the problems, we've got them, and the middle class has them the worst. >> mm-hmm, he's very good at identifying problems. i think it was not a bad idea to wrap himself in the mantle of teddy roosevelt. he's assuming a sort of progressive mantle and he ticked off some large and systemic problems that this country faces. the quibble i have with president obama, and i think some other people will have it too, is that the rhetoric is fine and identifying the problem is fine, but to use a football analogy, he sort of pushes it into the red zone and then tends to settle for a field goal. i know this wasn't a policy speech or anything, but i kept waiting when he was talking

about politicians essentially who are on the take from special interests or bankers who are playing fast and loose with the rules. i was waiting for the so we're gonna do -- what? what are we going to do? it's not enough to just encourage people to be better. >> yeah, where are the teeth marks. anyway -- >> exactly. >> i expect some attitude from you on this as well. it seems to me that the president is saying he's almost talking against the wind here. i've never heard a president in bad times running against, let's face it, that's what he's doing here, running against bad times when he's the presiding officer. isn't that a bit tricky? >> it is tricky and i think ron is absolutely right on this. this was heavy on rhetoric, not big on solutions. he talked about education being important. he talked about some regulations against banks making bad bets. but a lot of it was something that we'd heard before. again, he's wrapping himself obviously in the mantle of a republican president, though i'm not quite sure that roosevelt

was really a republican at that time. but, you know, this is something that we've seen from this president before. he will please his base in a lot of ways but in some ways we're past the point of big speeches and it's time for this president to do something. i thought he was great out on the stump when he was able to do something and talk about these executive actions that he was making around student loans and around mortgages. but i think one of the most positive things that he did for democrats in this is really lay out a contrast between his party, the democrats, versus the republicans. right before this speech you had nancy pelosi send out this e-mail that said basically the republicans were the party of the 1% and in this speech we co-opted occupy wall street and in some ways implicitly cast newt gingrich and mitt romney as these characters and figures of the rich and of the 1%. so i think in that way he was able to really, you know, paint a real big picture, a real contrast between himself, the

democrats and what the republicans might want to do. >> well, we had debbie wasserman schultz on last night, and it looks like they're beginning to work together. former speaker pelosi and the democratic national chair are all working with the president coordinating, they're beginning to act like they're in the same political party which is a good sign for them and perhaps the country. president obama emphasized that the stakes couldn't be higher for the middle class these days. let's listen to him. >> but osawatomie, this is not just another political debate. this is the defining issue of our time. this is a make-or-break moment for the middle class and for all those who are fighting to get into the middle class. because what's at stake is whether this will be a country where working people can earn enough to raise a family, build a modest savings, own a home, secure their retirement.

>> there you go again, ron, all the good things for a party based on the middle class. yet you hear these stories that they're going to give up on ohio, perhaps pennsylvania. they're headed towards the new economy people in north carolina, virginia, colorado. is this a bread and butter democrat speaking here or what, or not? >> well, that remains to be seen. you know, time will tell and his actions will tell much more than his words. we've all heard the speeches before. as nia said, we've heard this rhetoric before, and it's all fine. as i said, he's identifying correctly some of the problems, but these are big systemic problems that have to do with corruption and basic industry, the financial sector, health insurance and our political system. this is not going to go away because you job own somebody or got on the bully pulpit. this requires that the entire paradigm be rethought, if you will. fundamental changes be made in the system.

and i know that rhetoric alone is just not going to do that. on the other hand, he is -- he's tied into the zeitgeist the right way. poll after poll has shown that most people want taxes on the rich to go up and most people identify republicans with the party that is all about favoring the rich. >> no, i think you're right. in some ways he did still have trouble channeling some of the passion. he was more woodrow wilson in this speech than he was teddy roosevelt in terms of his spirit and emphasis and passion. and i think that's going to be a challenge for not only him, but also obviously whoever is on the other side. >> well, i guess a lot of people watching are hoping he'll take that ball across the goal line, ron, and not settle for the field goal. but i do love your notion there because i've seen some football teams around where i live playing that way and it's nothing more depressing than first and three and having to kick. anyway, thank you. up next, of course the stakes are a lot higher here

than a football game. mitt romney knows a flip-flopper when he sees one. we dug up video of romney back to? 2004 using the same kind of critique most people use against him against somebody else, john kerry. stick around for the sideshow. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc. [ male announcer ] medicare...

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about the additional coverage you may need. ♪ back to "hardball" now for the sideshow. first up from speaker to speaker. newt gingrich and nancy pelosi were definitely not kidding in the opening lines to the ad they worked on back in 2008 to raise awareness about global warming. >> we don't always see eye to eye, do we, newt? >> no. >> not always eye to eye sounds like an underestimation given the war of words that got under way late last week. on friday nancy pelosi spoke with talking points memo about the implications of newt winning quote, i like barney frank's quote the best where he said i never thought i'd live such a good life that i would see newt

gingrich be the nominee of the republican party. conversation about newt gingrich, speaker pelosi said. i served on the investigative committee that investigated him. four of us locked in a room in an undisclosed location for a year. a thousand pages of his stuff. gingrich was quick to pounce on that one with an interesting choice of words. >> i want to thank speaker pelosi for what i regard as an early christmas gift. if she's suggesting she's going to use material she developed while on the ethics committee, that is a fundamental violation of the rule of the house and i would hope members would immediately file charges against her the second she does it. >> so does nancy pelosi intend to release secret information about the former speaker? here's her official answer. quotes, leader pelosi was clearly referring to the extensive amount of information that is in the public record, including the comprehensive committee report with which the public may not be fully aware. well, this is the sort of sharp, threatening counterpunch newt gingrich would deliver, let's

face it, in a presidential debate with barack obama. pay attention, everyone. finally, which gop candidate comes to mind when is comes to waffling on issues? mitt romney maybe? back in 2004 romney was going after a democratic candidate for, get this, flip-flopping. here's what he said about john kerry back in 2004. let's listen. >> when you're running for office, you look at your opponent's record, you find someplace where he or she has changed position and say they're a flip-flopper and that's a pretty standard thing. but in this case, this guy really is. i won't go through that whole list but it's just extraordinary. i've tried to think why it is that he has changed so often. why he finds it so difficult to come down on one side of an issue, instead sort of floats between both issues. if he's with an audience, he wants to identify with and satisfy that audience and will say what he thinks they want to hear. we laugh and joke about that

kind of inconsistency and vacillation and yet as we look at the times that we face, it's really not a joking matter. >> well, the pot calling the kettle black. lessons from an expert. sounds more like a personal reflection, doesn't it, about himself? up next, has gingrich surges, romney and his supporters are starting to sweat, although i've never seen romney sweat. you're watching "hardball," only on msnbc.

randy babbitt has resigned following a dui arrest over the weekend. he was about halfway through a five-year term when he was stopped saturday night in virginia for driving on the wrong side of the road. the obama administration is stepping up efforts to protect

gay rights around world. secretary of state hillary clinton told a conference in geneva that gay rights are human rights and america will start using foreign aid to reward countries that safeguard them. two bomb attacks in afghanistan killed at least 59 people and injured 150 more in an outbreak of sectarian violence. meanwhile protests over apparently regular elections in russia are spreading from the capital to other cities with hundreds of demonstrators arrested. police in new hampshire have just captured escaped inmate david hobson. he had vowed revenge on two people connected with his arrest before his escape. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." as we discussed earlier, mitt romney said no to donald trump this afternoon.

the candidate said he won't attend what promises to be one of the silliest political circus events of the campaign. donald trump's so-called debate later this month. romney's decision stands in contrast to his chief rival and the front runner in the polls, newt gingrich, who plans on attending that circus with donald trump. some romney supporters have come to view gingrich as a serious threat. according to politico, romney's backers aren't panicking yet, but to many, especially among the gop donor elite, gingrich looks like romney's most formidable opponent to date and a rival who requires a much more serious respon than the previous conservative alternative, herman cain. there are four weeks until the caucuses. does mitt romney have the time to turn the corner and wage a more aggressive, hard-hitting campaign against newt gingrich to stop him in his tracks and how will his decision not to attend donald trump's event play with republican voters.

chris is managing editor and an msnbc contributor and maggie. i want to start with maggie. it's very interesting to find the power in the republican party. in the previous cycles i'd refer to it like a lot of us sarcastically to the white boys club, a group of governors perhaps that would meet at some club somewhere and sort of give the official okay to whoever the candidate was, particularly george w. or someone like that, or his father. now the power vortex seems to be coming either from radio and the voice of rush limbaugh or this manhattan project of donald trump. i mean where is the republican power base today that seems to be, well, influencing the selection process? >> well, you know, it's very interesting. you're seeing, i think, that power in places like national review and certainly you're seeing karl rove go on fox news and say what he thinks. i think that's where you're seeing the power structure.

you had republican elites openly urging mitt romney not to take part in this trump debate, as you called it a circus. they have described it similarly. i think if he didn't do it by today, it would have started to have diminishing returns. this is the first clear contrast point you're seeing with mitt romney to newt gingrich. this is the attempt to show newt gingrich as not serious. i think you are going to see other things like that, but i think that the risk for mitt romney is that he is giving in essentially to what the elites wanted and he has already seen as the elite candidate but i don't think he had much of a choice. >> i guess it's the way we look at it. you might be right. you believe that the establishment in the republican party is still in the bush household guy, retainer, karl rove. it's still that. that's the new establishment. i'm looking at the media maybe because i'm on it and i look at people like limbaugh and his power to get these people to eat their own words. you know, month after month -- well, we've heard people say things that don't square with limbaugh's thinking and then they have to go crawling back to him and say i'm sorry, rush,

you're the greatest man on earth. this time around i thought mitt might do it to donald trump. let me go over to chris on this. who do you think he was feeling the heat from, the media power of new york in the face of trump, unfortunately for new york perhaps, but he is mr. manhattan, or the power from the texas crowd, the power of george w. and his people? >> well, i think if it's either of those, chris, it's the latter, which is kind of the establishment saying don't do this. but i would say -- i would give mitt romney some credit here. i think that he looks at this debate, and i use that word lightly, because right now i think you only have newt gingrich and rick santorum, so it's kind of a conversation. >> i think bachmann is aboard. >> so you have three people involved. if you're mitt romney's campaign, i'm not sure that you need the establishment or the rush limbaughs of the world to put that pressure on you because why would you do this? we all know what this is going to turn into, a vehicle for donald trump to talk about

donald trump and what donald trump wants to talk about. so it seems to me that this is a no-brainer if you're mitt romney not to do -- i mean i think if he had done it, there would no doubt be tut-tutting among the party establishment but i think they just looked at it and said this makes no sense to do, it's two days after christmas, it's running on a network lots of people don't get. why would we raise the possibility that we're going to put our fate in the hands of donald trump six days before the iowa caucuses. >> you were right, chris, whoever said there's only two entrants right now officially and that's newt gingrich and rick santorum. bachmann in her words, her people's words are looking at it. go ahead, maggie. >> no, sorry. i was just going to say i do think there was some downside in the mind of the romney advisers, which was that donald trump, and you put it this way in terms of sort of the approach that gets taken on conservative radio, et cetera, donald trump also follows that.

he goes on television and is very critical of candidates if he doesn't think they're doing the right thing. i think there is a fear of that. you know, donald trump in his own book referenced that herman cain left a meeting with him and said to someone, i'm just afraid he's going to trash me so i want him to like me. i think that was a concern for the romney people but it was not outweighed by the negatives of taking part. >> i guess it's because i see romney bowing to whatever wind seems to be blowing or whatever golden idol they're supposed to worship at that moment and this time he said no, thank you. here's mitt romney, by the way. he didn't totally ignore newt gingrich. here he is on fox news taking a swipe at him. let's watch him perhaps beginning to go to blows with the newtster. >> speaker gingrich is a friend, i respect him but we have very different life experiences. if the american people believe what we need is someone who's spent the last 40 years or so in washington, d.c., working as an insider, why, he's the right guy. if they instead want someone

from outside washington to come into that place and fix it and get america on a track once again to move away from a government dominated society, to a people-dominated society where people and freedom get to choose their course, then i'm the right person. >> i don't think that's the theme or the tone of republican anger right now, chris and maggie. i'm going under the hood and fix the car doesn't seem like the mood of most rabid republicans and tea party people. they're angry. they want to go to blows with barack obama, even before they knock him out. they want to go to blows with him. >> you know, first of all, you're right. i think it's indicative -- newt gingrich's success in this race has been largely defined by his success in these debates. his rise has been entirely fueled by the fact that herman cain has collapsed, rick perry has collapsed, michele bachmann has collapsed, and in these debates newt gingrich looks like a reasonable alternative. why has he done so well, because he throws red meat like it's going out of style. we need to fire ben bernanke, the media is against us.

republicans love that. remember when rick perry was calling barack obama a socialist in one of the debates a few weeks ago. i can't keep track, there's too many. but the moderator went right to mitt romney and said, governor romney, do you agree, is president obama a socialist? is his administration guide by socialist principles? mitt romney did not say the word, kind of moved along, because he's not willing to throw that kind of meat. they're making a gamble that the mr. fix-it will work. i think lots of people in the republican party, it's fueled, i think, by newt gingrich's rise want the red meat thrower. they want the guy who's going to take it to president obama. >> can you win the republican nomination if you're talking like you're going for the general election voter? >> i think it's really hard. i think what chris said is absolutely right. i think that you have to have passion. that is what primary voters have wanted to see. they want a combination of someone that is throwing red meat but also seems presidential.

right now gop voters are saying they can see newt gingrich in that role. >> he's winning on that question of who's the better bet to win, which i think is a critical question. if electability becomes the strength of newt gingrich, i don't know what to say anymore about politics. anyway, thank you. i'm out of words anyway. thank you. up next, president obama tried to channel teddy roosevelt in his speech out in kansas. we've got an expert here. roosevelt is a favor of republicans but he also called for bigger government in many ways, taxes on the rich, graduated income tax, graduated tax on inheritance, all kinds of things that sound a bit more like today's democrat. let's hear from an expert on him coming up right now. she's writing a book on teddy roosevelt. she'll be on "hardball" in just a minute. for her sophomore year ♪ ♪ co-signed her credit card - "buy books, not beer!" ♪ ♪ but the second that she shut the door ♪ ♪ girl started blowing up their credit score ♪ ♪ she bought a pizza party for the whole dorm floor ♪ ♪ hundred pounds of makeup at the makeup store ♪

♪ and a ticket down to spring break in mexico ♪ ♪ but her folks didn't know 'cause her folks didn't go ♪ ♪ to free-credit-score-dot-com hard times for daddy and mom. ♪ v.o.: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com how about both? with covergirl lashblast fusion. our biggest brush meets our fiberstretch formula for a blast of volume and length. lashblast fusion. from easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl. so i get claritin clear for strong, non-drowsy relief of all my allergies like dust mold pets and pollen. looks good. thanks. i live claritin clear. even the best have fallen. former utah governor jon huntsman has been a voice of reason in the republican field but it hasn't gotten him

anywhere in the polls so now he's changing his tune about climate change. let's listen to what he said today at the heritage foundation. >> i'm not a scientist nor am i a physicist but i would defer to science and say the scientific community owes us more in terms of a better description or explanation about what might lie beneath all of this. but there's not enough information right now to be able to formulate policies. >> is he going to give up on evolution next? by the way, that's a stark contrast to the position he took, mr. huntsman did, in august, fairly recently when he tweeted did he trust scientists on global warming and he said call me crazy back then. he's joining the pack. he's joining the clown show. we'll be right back.

and we still believe in the words of man who called for a new nationalism, all those years ago. the fundamental rule of our national life, he said, the rule which underlies all others, is that on the whole and in the long run, we shall go up or down together. and i believe america is on the way up. thank you. god bless you. god bless the united states of america. >> we're back. that was president obama earlier this afternoon in kansas evoking the spirit of teddy roosevelt in the same kansas town where t.r., himself, gave his powerful new nationalism speech 100 years ago. obama's speech is an attempt apparently to make clear the middle class is facing a make or break economic moment right now. as he continues to fight republicans on his agenda items like the payroll tax cut and invoking roosevelt, a republican roosevelt, by the way, is this a

clear attempt to paint his opponents as far right extremists outside the republican mainstream? doris kearns goodwin, a presidential historian, joins us to talk about obama and teddy roosevelt. are you doing to him what i'm doing to him with jack kennedy, saying be more like jack? somebody whispered in his ear, maybe somebody i know, he ought to begin to talk like the republican roosevelt, the guy who really invented basically progressivism. that word has become so popular among people who long for years called themselves liberals. >> well, you know, could be that i'm living with teddy roosevelt right now, but i do think there's a real message that can be gotten from teddy roosevelt, because really what teddy roosevelt had to fight after decades of laissez faire, to argue the government had a role in th mammoth mergers, the trust you're developing. that was the threshold argument

to persuade them to incorporate corporations. in a certain sense, obama today facing squeezing of the middle class, giant mergers, antitrust problems, the inequality of rich and poor, has to repersuade america, government, all of u have a role to work on these together. if we don't do that, the programs he argues for aren't going to have real legitimacy. >> do you think the republican party is as bad now, being owned by wall street, as the republican party teddy roosevelt inherited? >> the incredible think, you think about, here we are 100 years ago and roosevelt had to fight a party. you had guys represents the sugar trust, representing the copper trust. they'd be called the senator from maine is the copper trust guy, the senator from virginia is the railroad guy. it's much more blatant than it was then. the argument government has a

role in order to deal with inequalities have to be fought then and it still has to be fought right now. i think what was so interesting about the speech is that teddy roosevelt used to talk about the fact that some of his harvard buddies thought he spoke in too common place, too simple language but he knew he could reach the farmers and working men with the kind of simple language. i think obama was not professorial today. he said this is wrong, this is right, this is inexcusable and met the audience in some way, previous speeches that were great to read, like paragraphs, had not tone. i think he's on the track and in a certain sense, he extended the timeframe for the election. think about what the main question is everybody's asked. are you better off now than you were four years ago? he was saying, look at the last decade, we had two tax cuts. are we better off? did we have better growth? no. that's his strategy. >> put on your political analysis hat, not your historian's hat. can a president win with rhetoric after four years or are you judged by performance, not

the angle with which you enter the debate? >> he's going to have to have the big stick to follow the rhetoric. he may have to exercise the veto power, make certain threats. he doesn't have control of the congress but is going to act strongly and fiercely into the last months of his presidency. it is rhetoric. what do we have in the next 12 months? not much is going to get done except the veto power. >> doris kearns goodwin. when is the book coming out? >> i wish it were now. probably another year, year and a half. i'm always way behind the time. >> you're the best. doris kearns goodwin. when we return, let me finish with why mitt romney is right to reject donald trump's circus show.

let me finish tonight with this. the republican party? the mirs midst of a convulsion. reasonable people are standing back watching as the party is being taken away from them. blame the tea party, blame the times. the fact is, we can see it happening, much of the political pposition to president obama is bamboozled to believing its only future lies in bowing to the dictate of the selection process leading it right now to the tender mercies of donald trump. for this not to happen,

republicans of sound minded personal dignity must refuse to participate in trump's big night, refuse to make him the grand old party's brasier, to resist all the pr and new york hype and say, you're not going to let him play host, judge, moderator, whatever the word is, on the vital eve of the republican caucus in primary season. for romney especially, this presented a challenge and an opportunity. if he'd shown up at donald trump's beckoning, he might as well have arrived wearing a hat with bells jingling from it. he would have become one of the clowns. in this case, a self-professed clown. this was mitt romney's sister soldier moment. a chance to place his feet squarely on the ground somewhere miles from the donald trump tower of power. and now he can say in the words of martin luther, here i stand. had he chosen otherwise and bowed to the winds blowing hard from manhattan, we would know now who's running the party, now se