at the top of the show, we asked you cruel, vicious people, why are you awake? so cruel, vicious people why you're awake. johnny tower has the answer. >> we have one from linda on twitter. i'm up weathering a hot flash and feeling less old because barnicle is on instead of willie. bif in new york city writes it's really nice of willie's grandmother. she is doing a great job. >> what is his name, biff? >> yeah. >> biff and linda why don't you go out and pay $13 fos for sticks of butter the two of you and then go back to bed. thanks, john. "morning joe" starts right now. >> my own view is you take it to president obama by describing his failures not by saying things that people who voted for him in the past that we need to vote for us now will find offensive. i know that among some folks

just saying outrageous or incindiary things will get you a lot of kudos and drive your numbers up but it is not going to win us the white house and the respect of people on either side of the aisle that we have to bring together to overcome the extraordinary challenges we have. look, i think this president has been an extraordinary failure. i think this president has taken on a job way over his head. but i don't think he is an evil or bad person. i just think he is an uninformed, inexperienced person that doesn't know what it takes to get an economy to work. >> good morning. it's tuesday, december 13th. >> good morning. >> welcome to "morning joe." with us onset we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. "time" magazine's senior political analyst mark halperin and the managing editor of "fortune" magazine. very good group this morning. how are we doing?

>> doing okay. >> ducky. >> so, all right. we're a little -- yeah. >> so, interesting things happening with td polls. >> yeah. >> a little slippage on gingrich's part. >> a little slippage. >> and the right strikes back. it's nice to not be alone out there. some other people now are really starting to go after him. and, also, you're looking at what is pretty fascinating stuff. a tumultuous year for this economy and, yet, some stocks did very well. andy is here to tell us exactly who did the best. do you think next year is going to be okay? >> it's going to be okay. how good is okay? >> i don't know. >> how good does it have to be to hit okay? we'll muddle through. >> okay these days, 2% growth is okay. 3% is really good. >> we'll be okay. that's about it. >> okay. >> okay. what's happening? you've been up to new hampshire.

you're hanging with the kids on the street corners. >> i was. spent the day there yesterday. >> singing du-op. what are they telling you in between songs? >> it's very unsettled. the voting is in three weeks but it feels more like we're a couple months out. and yet we have a big engagement between romney and gingrich yesterday. i think either of them could win iowa and either of them could win new hampshire and that's exciting. >> that is exciting. you know, ron paul staying steady in polls, and, mike barnicle, if newt gingrich were self-aware, that's sort of like saying if we could actually mine rocks on the moon -- >> that's not something that is going to happen. >> if newt gingrich were self-aware, he would realize that he darted to the lead about three weeks early. it's kind of like when you -- you're a cleveland browns fan of the 1990s and you went ahead in the playoffs with a minute left. >> yeah. >> and you had to give the ball back, you should have taken the lead about 45 seconds -- i think

we'll see a drip, drip, drip of support away from gingrich, not necessarily all towards romney but back towards michele bachmann and rick santorum and some of the other conservative candidates and of course ron paul. >> i don't know where it's going to -- where that support is going to go. i agree he may have peaked three weeks too early. i think the largest story anecdotally, pick it up, and mark alluded to it, is the amount of indecision there is out there among primary voters. they just -- you ask them, you know, who are you going to go for? i kind of like gingrich or i kind of like romney but they don't nail it down. nobody is saying, i love this guy. either one. gingrich or romney. that's kind of interesting. >> gingrich has got to figure out the expectations game a little bit because he has such big leads in polls over the last few days that if he ends up winning some of these narrowly it may not give him the decisive

blow against romney that he needs. he still needs to win quick. winning a long contest can be very hard. >> so we were talking, mika, with a romney supporter the other night. somebody pretty high up in the organization. and they said something that if they'd said it on air we would have laughed at them but i actually believe it that if romney -- a big if -- can turn things around, what has happened over the past two weeks would be the best thing that could ever have happened to him because expectations have crashed for mitt romney. they crashed in iowa. they've crashed in new hampshire, south carolina, and florida. across the country. if newt comes down to earth, which he will, and mitt creeps up a little bit, the expectations are pretty darned good. >> one thing that's different between them that could complicate things and i mean

this in all seriousness. >> okay. >> i do. >> okay. >> is that newt has -- he loves himself a lot. >> he does. >> that does help. >> he really -- it is -- i have never seen anything like it. he is the most unself-aware i have ever seen on the political scene ever. ever. >> that's saying a lot considering who she sits next to. >> considering we're talking about politics. >> yeah. >> and who i sit next to. >> well, he is a student of history. >> no, it's amazing. his self-adulation. it's what it takes at times. >> churchill and de gaulle. you name it. >> not necessarily a criticism. it could be effective. following a number of polls showing newt gingrich opening up a wide margin in iowa two new surveys are out this morning that indicate his lead could be starting to slip. the american research group is out with a new poll showing gingrich now with a five-point lead over ron paul and mitt romney. that's nearly within the poll's margin of error. while the university of iowa survey of likely caucus goers

shows gingrich with a ten-point lead over romney an adviser to the poll says the results show gingrich's support may be starting to slide as it has with previous front-runners. the poll adviser says gingrich has minimal staff and grass roots organization in iowa and may be unable to turn out as many supporters as other candidates did, will on january 3rd. and there was that issue. >> you look, mark, at this poll, a ten-point gingrich lead. the other poll shows a five-point gingrich lead. and in iowa and you say that some of the romney people get a sense that some of the numbers may be slipping again just like they did with herman cain and just like they did with rick perry and michele bachmann and with every front-runner. >> one of my favorite concepts in politics is natural hyping. at the end of the race people with big poll leads generally -- gingrich isn't going to win florida by 35 points no matter what happens. so we're seeing that tightening now. it is an expectations game.

it doesn't make any sense but you can point to examples. bob dole won the iowa caucuses in 1996, crippled him by going into new hampshire. he won by a narrower margin. on caucus night the entrance poll tightened and it made it look like he was losing the lead. this could help him because if it's tighter and he ends up winning a win will be a win. >> andy, there are laws of politics like there are laws of physi physics. and until somebody breaks those laws, then i'm going to keep believing the laws. and in iowa and new hampshire these early states you have to organize. newt hasn't organized. he hasn't spent a lot of time in new hampshire, in iowa. i just -- on caucus night i think it's going to be very tight. >> one thing i thought was very interesting, i saw a poll in new hampshire that indicated even as newt was coming up, because this

was in late november, he didn't run as strongly against obama as mitt romney did. and, you know, that's a pretty critical issue. in other words, ultimately you're going to be running against the big guy. >> right. >> if you don't have faith you can beat the big guy, that really undermines your candidacy and that could come back to haunt him. people really think that mitt is more presidential than newt gingrich is, which i can see them thinking. then what are they going to really think when push comes to shove on that election night? >> all right. some interesting things were happening pertaining to this. within hours of those new poll numbers several conservative figures from the right began striking back against gingrich. among them executive editor of "the weekly standard" fred barnes who expresses concern at the former speaker's new line of attack on mitt romney. newt gingrich has adopted an antifree market argument, a favorite of the political left, to criticize mitt romney. gingrich accused his rival of making money by bankrupting companies and laying off

employees in his years at bain capital but bain capital was engaged in the rough and tumble of free market capitalism, thus gingrich's criticism, coming from a conservative, was surprising. his attack echoes the criticism of romney by the late senator ted kennedy in 1994. romney ran against kennedy when the senator sought re-election in '94. kennedy won, aided by brutal, unfair tv ads, criticizing romney for killing jobs. >> well, fred barnes, who was one of the conservatives that actually defended gingrich last week when others were starting to come out, fred barnes uncovers a sad truth about newt gingrich, which is he will say whatever he has to say at the time something has to be said to make a point, to take a cheap shot. and here he did sound like ted kennedy, just like he sounded like ted kennedy when he called paul ryan a right wing radical, just like he sounded like barack

obama when he supported the $7 trillion medicare drug benefit scheme. i mean, newt is -- when conservatives lash out at those who are critical of newt gingrich, it is farce because he is not a conservative. he's never been a conservative. and here he is actually criticizing mitt romney for being a free market capitalist. >> well, there is so much to say. look, at the same time, romney is criticizing gingrich for wanting to eliminate capital gains taxes on everyone including the wealthy. so romney has done the same thing. he's attacked from the populist economic left on gingrich. it's a principal distinction for romney and for gingrich, too. this is a weakness romney has in the general election and with a lot of populist republicans, a lot of tea party republicans, they don't like the fact that -- they don't like the fact, the way mitt romney made money. it's not a crazy political

argument and, substantively, there is some sense to it. >> mark barnicle, it is one of the things that even democratic ceos going to the white house are offended by. it's a fact that barack obama has no idea how the free market works. sometimes when he turns and looks at them and says why can't you just hire people? can you go out and hire people? no. mitt romney started something at bain capital where he looked at companies that weren't going to survive, staples was one of them, and he said okay. how do we make these companies stronger? you know how he did it? not by government mandate. by saying how will this company be stronger in the free market so we can prosper and hire more people down the road? should newt and the president get together and talk economics? >> romney and a guy by the name of tom stemberg created staples. the interesting thing about the reference to ted kennedy in 1994

campaign is the point of vulnerability of romney's candidacy in 1994 is exposed in one particular tv ad by a company that bain bought in ohio and closed in indiana -- i knew it was the midwest someplace -- remains the same point of vulnerability for romney today. >> he better get used to it if he is the candidate in the general election. >> and, by the way, guess what. the way you answer that, the way you answer that attack is by saying damn right i did. you know why i did? i did it not so those people would be laid off and thrown out in the streets in midwestern towns but because we wanted to build companies that would go. they were going to be fired sooner or later. those companies were going down. they would close. so whether they were out on the street, the day that i put them on the street or six months later, they would have been out of work. instead, i created companies that grew, that could rehire them and could be around to hire their children, that could grow those communities. >> you might be able to win that

argument on a debate exchange and you might be able to win it silver tongd devil against mitt romney, against newt gingrich in iowa and south carolina. but i think that fight in south carolina and iowa, given the unemployment rate, i'm not sure gingrich couldn't win that argument in a republican primary. >> mitt romney better -- >> he better be able -- >> mitt romney is a slow learner, mika, on a lot of issues. he better figure this one out and he better, instead of backing away from it, charge in full steam and defend capitalism. >> one second. one second. >> defend capitalism, defend the free market, defend what he did at bain capital as actually something that created staples. i mean, can you imagine how many people staples has employed and how many of these other companies he created have employed? >> well, i think romney is getting it. i think he is. i've got two stories for you. one which is a gimmick, this radio host offering the money.

but romney asking for the money back. you want michael savage? >> yes. >> conservative radio host michael savage posted on his website last night newt gingrich is unelectable. mitt romney is the only candidate with a chance of defeating obama and there is nothing more important than for that to happen for the health, safety, and security of the united states. therefore i am offering newt gingrich $1 million to drop out of the presidential race. that's a good gimmick. >> gingrich will take money. >> yeah. >> maybe a million three. >> he had a million three from -- >> i want to get -- somebody has done something really good and effective and i think it'll define the two. >> wait a second. >> fine. you do it. i won't. >> glenn beck last week had newt on and he asked newt the type of questions that conservatives need answers to. then yesterday glenn beck said

something that i guarantee you a lot of small government conservatives, like me, have thought. and that is, if i have to choose between barack obama and newt gingrich, a guy that george will said would have been a marvelous marxist and who is the opposite of being a small government conservative, if ron paul is running as a third-party candidate i'm going to give him a long look because i can't vote for the two guys who worship at the altar of big government in their own separate ways. and that's the problem with the newt gingrich candidacy. he is not a small government conservative. >> if you give wind to ron paul, that would just be all she wrote. >> yeah. i think ron paul with newt gingrich out there would get five, ten, 15% and that would re-elect barack obama. newt gingrich re-elects barack obama under any scenario. >> okay. so here is how romney is pushing back against gingrich, suggesting the former house

speaker should return the $1.6 million his firm was paid for advising mortgage giant freddie mac. i like this. this should be effective. you have to explain to me why it wouldn't be. but gingrich was just as aggressive in his response. here we go again. slamming romney's career at venture capital firm bing capital while taking a shot at his debate wager this past weekend. >> i would just say that if governor romney would like to give back all the money he's earned from bankrupting and laying off employees over his years at beginning then i'll bet you $10 not $2,000 that he won't take the offer. >> by the way -- >> i like what i said before. >> newt gingrich said all the companies that mitt romney bankrupted as if men and governments bankrupt companies instead of markets bankrupting companies. if those companies were making a lot of money, then mitt romney

would have said, you know what i'm going to do with those companies? i'm going to keep them in our stable because we'll make money. but newt gingrich believes that men bankrupt companies instead of free market. >> when he feels like it. but we brought up ron paul. you, though, want to go back to somebody else who you believe may run as an independent. >> i think if newt gingrich is the nominee, i think, you know, you'd think if you were a republican you'd be upset like michael savage and newt gingrich would lose the presidency. but with mitt romney you'll get a strong, centrist candidate in the race someone like michael bloomberg who will say in this field of gingrich, paul, obama, i can win, and that's all bloomberg has wanted all along, a chance to win. >> one of the more interesting dynamics of this republican primary, the longer it goes on and the closer it gets, at least interesting to me, is mitt romney is a very nice guy.

whether he can summon the fire from within to really throw a punch at gingrich or any other opponent who is coming closer or exceeding i find it interesting. so far he hasn't and i don't know whether he is capable. >> i think he will. >> one of the problems is when i come on here and i start talking about free markets, or fighting mika who wants to raise taxes every day. >> well just on millionaires. >> i consciously and i get serious here, i have to work to maintain my cool, because i get so ticked off when people support things that i believe have failed for a hundred years. but mitt romney, when mitt romney loses his cool, it seems like he's got to go the opposite direction. he's got to conjure up those feelings. he should naturally be angry at newt gingrich for not only misrepresenting his record but

being so ignorant when it comes to the power of free markets. >> he likes people and he sees the good in people. which is a great trait. >> does he have the passion? >> with all due respect does he have the passion? >> i don't think we search as strenuously always to find the good in people as mitt romney does. mitt romney is a seeker of goodness. >> i'm not a -- let's just stop here. >> he is a seeker of goodness. >> you are in your spare time. >> wait. >> seriously. >> he's saying i'm not a nice person. >> yeah. you are a nice person. >> i hold no grudges. >> all of us have this trait of we like to look for the good in people. romney more than almost anyone i know in politics really does try to find the good in other people. >> you know, there is an intensity to that. >> you can find the good in other people and still fight for free market, still fight for less taxes, still fight for

balanced budgets and still call out people like newt gingrich who don't understand free markets, who sound like ted kennedy on the campaign trail, who support $7 trillion drug benefit plans. i mean, who is not a conservative at the end of the day. it drives me crazy looking at these republicans. it drives me crazy. >> he actually brings out the best in people, which is a different characteristic. maybe just by contrast. i have just noticed that for two days in a row now you're dressed like a human. you look good. >> you look nice. >> thank you. >> can you answer a question? my brother-in-law e-mailed and asked a couple nights ago about bart going into the starting rotation. is that going to happen? >> they'll take a look at him as a starter, yeah. >> but doesn't that blow a hole in the bull pen? >> are you kidding? we have bobby jenks. >> okay. >> coming up we'll bring in democratic senator debby

stabenow and senator mike lee. also former campaign manager steve schmidt will be here and "the washington post" eugene robinson. next politico's top stories of the morning. first, let's go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> mika, i fully agree with mark. joe is definitely the darth vader of the show. >> oh, no. >> not what i said. >> fully agree. >> i disagree. i think that's funny coming from you. >> and kept away and locked away. yes. you can find good in me i guess. good morning, everyone. we are looking at temperatures that are very chilly out there especially in northern new england. bundle the kids up and yourselves this morning. it's going to be another decent afternoon. if the wind is not blowing you should be okay. temperatures will be in the 40s. another dry day. there is no snow out there. d.c. should be around 51 degrees. southern missouri where we're getting a little light rain. st. louis umbrella weather along with kansas city. if anyone is joining us early

this morning out in phoenix anywhere in california, especially southern california, rain for you, even thunderstorms now from ocean side to san diego. that's pretty rare. so today's forecast trouble spot, phoenix, you have some stormy weather. maybe some airport delays. late in the day. chicago, you could see some rain. but i think the worst of it for you will be tomorrow. here's a little sneak peek at tomorrow's forecast. you can see all the rain there in the middle of the country. overall just bundle up in the east. should be a nice afternoon. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ ♪

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on the network they deserve. like the powerful droid charge by samsung, or get the samsung stratosphere, and for a limited time, get twice the data for the same low price. verizon. 26 past the hour. you know when i -- we're talking about e books. and i am just noticing mika over the past month let's say. >> yeah. >> i'm just more often than not this weekend i read a "new york times" had the ten top books of

the year. there was one book i would never go out and buy but since my ipad was right there i opened it up, downloaded it, started reading. >> funny thing is my 13-year-old refuses. she needs the book, like paper. >> that's good. >> most are good. does she churn her own butter? >> no, she doesn't. >> you were talking about the book -- >> amazon just said it was the best selling book of the year both as a physical book and e book and only came out in october. >> wow. >> a lot of those were e book sales. >> that makes sense. >> mike, have you started buying e books? >> i have 123 e books. >> do you really? >> there you go. >> again, the whole idea of going out to a book store and when you're just right there and you can download to the media. >> you carry it around. >> and the genius of steve jobs, right, the genius to make it easy. >> the page turning aspect is just cool. >> it's easy to read. are you an e book fan, too,

mark? >> only way to fly. >> all right. >> i love holding a book in my hand and highlighting and marking them up. i always have. but this is just so convenient. it really is changing our habits. >> time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with the "new york times." and romney is being deployed with a growing sense of urgency. offer voters a compelling three-dimensional portrait of the candidate. in the past week she has appeared at events in iowa, new hampshire, and washington drawing attention to their 42-year marriage. >> and "the wall street journal" the russian billionaire who owns the new jersey nets says he will challenge vladimir putin. i guess the nets will have new ownership next year and he'll have a wonderful funeral. some speculate that his campaign is orchestrated by the kremlin in an effort to drain support from the antigovernment demonstrations. come on. >> they are both so active. >> they are.

>> the super bowl ring story. >> what's that? >> several years ago robert kraft owner of the patriots in moscow took off his super bowl ring to show it to putin who took the ring, looked at it, a huge ring, and turned to robert kraft and said, you could kill a man with this. and kept the ring. thought it was a gift. >> it's a good thing kraft took it off his finger because he would have cut it off. >> okay. >> with us now let's bring in chief white house correspondent from politico mike alan here with this morning's playbook. what, michael, is leading the political playbook this morning? >> tell us about it. >> well, for mika's 13-year-old we're going to print out politico playbook 2012 "the right fights back" on parchment. get evan thomas and mr. meacham to sign it. >> i love it. >> this is a book that is changing the way we live. >> it is. i love it. "the right fights back." >> let's look at this mitt

romney interview and see what he had to say. >> i'm not in trouble. i'm in a great spot. i could become our nominee or someone else might become our nominee and i can go back to business and my family. either one of those is a very nice outcome. >> you're fine with losing? >> of course i want to win. i'm fighting hard to win. but, you know, i have a life, too. i care very deeply about the country. i think i'm the right person to lead the country. i think i'm the person who has the best shot at replacing barack obama. i think that's important to do. but i'm not someone who is in trouble. in trouble is someone who doesn't have a bright future. >> you see, mike alan, his campaign did him such a disservice, keeping him off of tv. such a -- one of the stupidest moves, i think, of the 2012 campaign. mitt romney there talking to you, a likeable guy. >> extremely. >> mitt romney just went way up in my book by going, if i lose, i get my family. and we know his family. they are great people. >> he means it. >> boy, i don't know why they

kept that guy. >> let him speak from the heart. >> he came off as being absolutely sensible and what fascinated me is he is going to be selling himself as the responsible person. i said, how can you thrive in this environment where what the voters want is red meat? he said, i am who i am. that's not what i do. i'm not going to say crazy things. he didn't say crazy but he says i'm not going to say extreme things but then will hurt the republican in the general. and he said this election is going to be decided by the big middle, the people who were for obama last time, and they don't want their president picked based on red meat. he says others may do that. they may win the election but that's fine. that's not me. >> mike alan, when i first read excerpts of your interview on playbook i was surprised by that tact. a lot of people in this position panic and they try to go, be even more extreme than those who are beating them. he seems, and i think it's

brilliant, though it may be counterintuitive torks be goi counterintuitive, to be going in the opposite direction. painting a clear picture. if you want the extremist, the guy that'll say anything to win go with newt gingrich. he calls kathleen sebelius a joseph stalin. i'm here. i'm going to win the middle. i'm going to beat barack obama. that seems like a brilliant play. >> yeah. and he is taking his tough times like a man. but when i asked him is newt gingrich the front-runner he said yes. he is right now. and i said, why? he started out by saying got me. but he went on to say that this could be a five, six-month contest. he is now looking at the possibility that this will go through california june 5th. just a month ago in florida he was saying he was hoping it would end in florida january 31st. so he sees this as a much tougher, longer road. but he sounded like a man who saddled up. >> once again, that's brilliant.

this is going to last forever, be a long, hard slog. you do a little bit better in iowa than you expect. win new hampshire and south carolina. boom. it's over. because of expectations. >> one thing that could happen is gingrich could win most or all the early states and that's when the establishment which is not gearing up en masse to stop him now could say, okay. this isn't good for us. and that -- and we're not going to let the press force romney oust the race. we're going to california. >> one of the keys to understanding romney is despite the fact that he was way ahead a couple months ago he has planned to go through california. it's there on paper and financially. to get through to california. >> you're right. he is the only one in the race. you watch. in iowa it's going to be tougher for newt gingrich. you watch. i think michele bachmann is going to have a resurgence. i think you'll be watching ron paul at least at 20%. mitt will get 15%, 20%. i think it's going to be all bunched up at the end. >> they don't have the infrastructure in iowa and newt gingrich.

but they are scrambling. mike alan, thank you very much. coming up andy takes us inside the new issue of "fortune" magazine including their best stock picks of 2012. this useless telepho ne♪ ♪ my hair is gone ♪ cheap cologne ♪ motor home ♪ i'm the rocket man! [ both ] ♪ rocket man ♪ burning out his fuse up here alone ♪ burning out his fuse up here alone? ahh. [ male announcer ] crystal clear fender premium audio. one of many premium features available on the all-new volkswagen passat. the 2012 motor trend car of the year. ♪ and i think it's gonna be a long, long time ♪ it's all crossed out... it's 'cause i got everything on it. boom! thank you!

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37 past the hour. andy, "fortune" magazine out with its new investors guide. you have your top stock picks for 2012. take us through them. >> of course. >> i like this. >> i'm sorry. >> i like the little theme music. >> we have a lot of stuff to do. >> it's been a tough year for investors. the market is up between 2% and 3%. >> you think? >> yeah. but the ordinary person wouldn't know there's been so much volatility. stocks all over the place. it's a tough time to invest right now. even though obviously we've been hearing about corporations doing very well, they've got tons of cash. >> if you're an investor though this is about investing. >> yeah. >> who won in 2012? who was the big money winner? >> well, companies like apple have done really well. >> apple just keeps on keeping on. >> that is a stock we'll talk about now because a lot of people say, well, sadly steve jobs passed away. the fact is earnings at this company are growing 30% a year

still and the stock was only up 15%. it has so much cash. >> so apple just is going to keep going. >> it is going to keep going. >> with tim cook. >> the new ceo. and eventually they may even pay a dividend. they've got $26 billion. this is going to see a theme here. so much cash on the balance sheet. here is a little fact. the 500 largest companies in the united states have $1 trillion of cash. >> on the sidelines. >> and because why? they're scared. they don't know what's going on. they don't know government policy. >> by the way, this is, what can we do to create jobs on day one, a president that the markets believe understands capitalism? >> right. >> will loosen up the trillions of dollars that are on the sidelines. >> compromise. have a tax policy and a budget policy going forward that business people could understand so they feel confident and they can invest in growing their business. >> let's go down the list here. put the list back up, guys. caterpillar, great news for

america. a manufacturer who is doing darn well. >> $29 billion of back orders right now. >> wow. >> again, the stock is not that expensive. it's got a 2% dividend yield which is the same as the ten-year treasury bill. >> what about lockheed martin, another american company? where are their markets scrubbing? >> well, you know, obviously they're in the defense business and obviously the stock has hit because you, you know, the wars are winding down. but they have $73 billion of back orders over the next decade. now, you know, obviously -- >> the u.s. government? >> to the u.s. government and to overseas governments. but some of that may get trimmed a little bit but it's a fairly conservative number. and the dividend yield, again, common denominator, is over 5%. so, you know, you get paid while you wait. >> okay. so let's talk next about rvc, royal bank of canada, which i know it sounds strange, but was my bank in northwest florida until somebody else bought that bank up. at rvc, yeah. why are they doing well at a time that is tough for banks?

>> the canadian banks did a lot better than the u.s. banks during the financial crisis. they were frankly more conservative and there was better regulation in canada. >> right. >> and also right now they've got more tier one capital which is high quality capital. the world capital. again because people don't like banks there is a high dividend yield, 5%. >> yeah. >> where are you going to get 5% of your money these days? >> finally, let's go to the last stock and put it up again, guys. i was afraid if barack obama got elected sweetheart deals to halliburton would drive their profits way up. here we are at the age of halliburton one of the best stock picks for 2012. makes me sad. >> halliburton, it's amazing. where have we seen that name before? halliburton is actually -- >> i thought the only reason they made a dime is because dick cheney was vice president. are you telling me that they actually were a profitable company before? >> and they're going to be very profitable the next decade or so because they are the fraking company which is of course this new way of getting -- >> oh, my goodness.

really. >> -- natural gas oust the unit -- out of the united states. horizontal drilling. watch that space. this is a company poised -- they seem to always have a way to make money that company. >> all right. next, republican senator mike lee joins us for the must read opinion pages. keep it right here on "morning joe." dad, you are not meeting him looking like that.

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it's a great hd tv... shhh. don't speak. i'll just leave you two alone. [ male announcer ] the big christmas event is here. starting 8 a.m. saturday. with great deals on toys, electronics and more... the only place to go for last minute gifts is walmart. i would hate to see the united states senate take this good person and make her part of the political back and forth that has consumed this city.

>> the question centered around a 12-year romantic relationship she had with a man targeted -- who allegedly worked for cuba's spy agency. >> good lord. they filibustered her and now she has to come back from el salvador after serving there as a year. the democrats failed to get the 60 votes necessary to stop the gop filibuster to confirm marie carmenaponti as ambassador to el salvador. jay carney said today's filibuster is one more example of the type of political posturing and partisanship the american people are tired of seeing in washington. >> what did you pick for your must read. >> that's sexist. sorry. >> what did you pick for your must read? >> i was going to talk about that. but joining us now -- >> what did you pick for your must read? >> i haven't picked one. i said we're going to talk about that. you can pick one.

i'm going to introduce our next guest. joining us now republican senator from utah senator mike lee who i just discovered went to much the same middle school. were your middle school years as horrible as mine? >> i think everybody's middle school years are a lot of fun. keeps us humble. >> there you go. nicely put. >> old dominion road. >> senator, we usually read -- i'm going to read one op-ed but then we want to get to your background because it is fascinating. andy knows i guess a family secret about the time harry reid locked you in a garage. there is your tease. let's go to the national review. the ryan primary by bob costa. ryan the influential budget committee chairman may not endorse a candidate before january but the competition to be seen as a ryan ally is intense says one gop insider romney's latest ads the insider says are part of what republicans dub the ryan primary. with romney and gingrich eager to be identified as fellow travelers the only problem there of course is newt gingrich

calling ryan a right wing social engineer and extremist. lots of luck winning that one, newt. so i want to ask, a lot of policy issues. but you brought it up, andy. let's bring this out about this dark background of harry reid. >> harry reid locked you in a garage in northern virginia. you're family friends. tell us about that. >> harry reid's son josh and i have been friends since sixth grade and for some reason the senator then a congressman decided to lock me in the garage. i think he kept me in there for a good half an hour. >> how old were you? >> about 12 or 13 at the time. i'm sure i deserved it. >> but you said he's got a great sense of humor. >> he does. >> a subtle but great sense of humor. >> he absolutely does. they were the first real democrats i ever knew. discovered in their home. i couldn't tout the virtues of ronald reagan without expecting a fight. >> so what's going on in the senate? i talk an awful lot about how

the senate democrats have to put a budget on the floor for 900 days. yesterday we had a democratic senator saying he had no idea why they didn't. why has the senate not produced a budget in 900 days? >> they have 23 democrats up for election in the 2012 cycle. i think they want to take as few votes as possible. they want to view as few controversial things as possible because for whatever reason they have concluded that innures to their political advantage. i think in time they'll see they've done this to their own peril. >> senator, what can get done realistically between now and the election not just the senate and the house but signed into law to help the country? >> well, i don't know. at a time when we've got 900 days without a budget, when we've had republican proposals put forward and voted down by the democrats. we've had exactly one democratic budget voted on in the senate this year and that was from the president and it received exactly zero votes. i'm not sure without a change of

heart on the part of the senate democrats what can get done. >> hold on a second. you mean the president put his own budget on the floor and it got zero votes? >> let me check. yeah, yeah. it was zero. >> i love that with pat robertson he always had the side kick that would do that. >> americans should resign themselves to the fact that we're just going to have politics between now and next january? >> they should encourage their democratic senators to step forward and put forward a budget and start moving things forward. i have some ideas about things i think i need to get done. i think we need the principles underline the cut capital balance act, cut capital balance act was passed by the house earlier this year but it was tabled when it got to the senate. i think we need statutory spending caps. we need a balanced budget amendment. i feel so strongly about it i've written a book called the freedom agenda. it'll make you weep as you read it. it makes the point our freedom, individual liberty is dependent upon our ability to restrain government and its spending power which is out of control. it is also true that whether you

care most about protecting defense or protecting entitlements you should want a balanced bunlgtd amendment because we are spending and borrowing to the point it's jeopardizing all of those programs. >> on both sides. >> well, senator, we just talked about your family friends with the reids. you grew up part-time in d.c. your father worked in the ford and reagan administration. you know washington. you know the democrats don't necessarily have horns growing out of their heads. what, specifically, have you done to reach across the aisle to compromise to get things done? because isn't government all about compromising? >> absolutely. it's all about compromising. it's a popular topic these days. we have to remember compromise isn't a destination. >> so what have you compromised on? >> well, i've met constantly with my democratic allies to try goat them to the point we can agree on a balanced budget amendment. >> have you compromised on anything? >> i've offered up various ideas we could compromise on. i've explained we can't support a balanced budget amendment that

doesn't have certain efforts. we certainly can't have one like the trojan horse amendment offered by the democrats that says congress can exempt itself out of the balanced budget amendment based on a simple majority vote, identifying the existence of a military conflict. that is always present and is not really a balanced budget amendment. >> so up until this point there's been no compromise. >> no. but you're putting words in my mouth. i certainly never said that. look, we compromise every single day. if you want to ask about a specific piece of legislation, i can talk to you about that. i'm not really sure what you're saying when you say there's been no compromise because compromise is an inevitability in any legislative discussion. everyone always has to compromise. no one is ever going to get exactly what they want every single time. the question is whether you compromise, how far you're willing to go. whether you're willing to put forward a budget. that by itself in and of itself is a compromise and we haven't yet had that from the democrats this year. >> not specific to you but i think to andy's question, has

there been anything that has actually happened on both sides. >> on both sides. >> i'm saying there is no such thing as legislation that doesn't -- >> everything gets chopped up a million times. i want to ask you quickly. we have to go. they're yelling in my ear. we're out of time. i'm sure it's my fault. >> mine actually. >> let's talk about the military quickly. you talked about military cuts earlier. are you a george will/joe scarborough/ron paul conservative that is just as wary of foreign entanglements s as -- or do you think we need to stay in afghanistan for as long as the generals say we have to stay in afghanistan? >> well, it is with good reason that our founding generation was wary of obsessive attainments. i too am wary of those. it doesn't mean we cut and run from every military engagement

we have across the world but we do need to be worried about the fact we can't over extend ourselves. >> are we over extended now? >> one could make that argument. >> do you? i certainly would. >> the president is working on plans to start withdrawing from some of these battle fields and i don't disagree with that. >> okay. i like it. >> senator mike lee, thank you very much. come back soon. we'll be right back. the other office devices? they don't get me. they're all like, "hey, brother, doesn't it bother you that no one notices you?" and i'm like, "doesn't it bother you you're not reliable?" and they say, "shut up!" and i'm like, "you shut up." in business, it's all about reliability. 'cause these guys aren't just hitting "print." they're hitting "dream." so that's what i do. i print dreams, baby. [whispering] big dreams.

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there is a big difference between working in the private economy and working on "k" street and working as a lobbyist or a legislator or working to connect businesses with

government. if he was working as a spokesman for fannie mae or freddie mac, if he was there because of his political connections, and then if freddie mac fails, i think a fair question is asked, why did he profit as freddie mac failed? >> i would just say, that if governor romney would like to give back all the money he has earned from bankrupting companies and laying off employees, over his years at bing, i would be glad to listen to him and i'll bet $10 not $10,000 that he won't take the offer. okay. a comeback that makes no sense. welcome back to "morning joe." joining the table right now the editor-in-chief of "newsweek" magazine and the daily beast, tina brown. >> which one? >> oh, first of all i just have to show this page right here. these are some of newt's best quotes. you see this?

my favorite is people like me are what stand between us and auschwitz. people like me. so newt gingrich is all that stands between -- hold on a second -- this guy is -- in newt gingrich's opinion this guy is the only person that stands between us and a holocaust that kills 6 million americans. wow. so he also talks about how he may have to raise an army. >> yes. >> to defend civilization. that he is all that stands between america and the end of civilization and he is going to be the leader of that civilization and may possibly have to raise armies. >> indeed. >> for that civilization. >> there's a quote here that says he is not a nice human being, joe scarborough said of his former speaker. he is a bad person. did you say that? >> well, politically. >> in context.

>> i clarified in context that the political figure -- they don't really know me personally. i just heard from mark that he is a wonderful grandfather. and i don't, seriously, you judge people professionally and you judge people personally. it's two different judgments. but politically not a good person. but these quotes -- who says, mike barnicle, people like me are what stand between us and auschwitz? >> he compares himself with roosevelt, bill clinton. he is very big on comparing himself to bill clinton. right now the thing for him is bill clinton. i've been knocked down. i come back. i know how to operate. i'm a guy who can work the system. you know, he is really on the bill clinton thing at the moment. >> he likes bill clinton and bill clinton seems to like him. >> you have to wonder when you read this, newt gingrich, january, 1994, to "the atlanta journal constitution" people like me are what stand between us and auschwitz. what was the conversation that led to that quote? >> what led to that?

>> i think he's just this -- i think it's one of those $60,000 speeches if you know what i mean. it's like, you know, newt gingrich -- this is the world in which he lives in. >> here's another great -- >> the post primary puff up. >> this is something we say about ourselves a lot. >> which one? >> i'm not a natural leader. i'm too intellectual. >> i hear you guys. >> i think too much. >> the context of the auschwitz quote was he was doing a mn ad lib. >> no. it's funny because it's true. >> the picture says it all. i love that picture. it's such -- it just captures the wonderful puff up, the moment of hubrisic self-admiration, the enjoyment. i loved him for doing it. >> by the way, here we are laughing not at newt gingrich

but what newt gingrich says about newt gingrich. yet he is on your cover. he was person of the year in 1995. in 1995 he started a movement to balance the budget for the first time in a generation. he succeeded. balanced the budget the first time in four years since -- the first time that happened since the 1920s. he shoveled welfare reform down bill clinton's throat when clinton and the democratic congress didn't want to pass it. this guy was being laughed at in the summer of '94 just like we're laughing at him now. could he be president? >> i think he certainly could have been a nominee because i do think that what he does well is capture this particular moment. i'm really sort of struck by politics is so much about, you know, reacting to the thing that just went before and about the next thing as opposed to what so often happens with politicians where they fight the last election. newt encaptures the rage of people -- he captures the

viscera people want right now from their candidate. romney keeps saying people want a rational man and to win the general you would think that is exactly what you want but at this moment people want to feel that sense of scrapiness, that sense of having a fight which they don't have from their president. >> no, i just can't imagine this is what the country wants right now. i mean, this is a country that has an economy that is severely hurting. >> it's what his base wants now, the republican base. >> this is a country with extreme disparity, a country where wall street still has different rules and if they're getting what they want they are get whag they already have. >> that is not the case. newt gingrich, i'm obviously not a fan but newt gingrich is not what we have. newt gingrich is as, i can never say the conservative writer's name from "the times." ross -- does it rhyme with nugget? however you pronounce his last name he talked about --

>> i like his work. >> he talked about how newt like michele bachmann, actually michele bachmann is a consistent conservative unlike newt, but herman cain, rick perry, donald trump, sarah palin, that it was all about catharsis. it wasn't about policy. it was about a mccartcatharsis t obamaism. >> can i just say i do think as well that the old thing which has always worked recently about being not of washington in this case people are feeling you need to know how to work washington and actually it is in fact in newt's favor that he has been a guy who's been an operator in congress and knows how to, you know, do the cut and thrust of politics which is what people don't feel they have right now. >> mika, do you not understand that? because you talked about, what reminded me is you talked about americans who believed the banks are getting away with things,

that main street is not getting away with. well, newt gingrich actually despite his record taps into that. it's his -- and i always talk about this but it's not about policy. it's, again, about catharsis. when bobby kennedy of assassinated in 1968, the kennedys are always still scratching their heads over this. bobby was somehow in '68 an outsider. he was seen as a fighter when he died his progressive heroes votes went to whom? not gene mccarthy. george wallace. because wallace was an outsider. and, you know, mike, the kennedys still are grappling with that and, yet, it's sort of like newt is in that category of an outsider. a street fighter. >> bobby had -- robert kennedy

had an appeal that was kind of extraordinary. i can remember an evening in gary, indiana, where those streets were lined with white ethnic working class people out there to cheer robert kennedy and he is the same candidate who could go to indianapolis and announce to a largely african-american crowd that martin luther king had just been assassinated. they did not know it. he had this extraordinairy pull together appeal and i think part of it emanated from the fact that people regardless of their income, regardless of their skin color, had the feeling that he would fight for them. now, he didn't articulate the battles that they felt they had to fight. >> right. >> but they felt he would fight for them. the gingrich thing is really kind of interesting to me. if you walk around in places like new hampshire, i haven't been to iowa yet, there is a fringe element to the republican

party, a fringe element that is fueled emotionally by his words because they think this guy hates obama the way they hate obama. >> absolutely. >> and will get in the ring and won't stop punching. and romney as we talked about earlier this morning is a nice guy, is going to keep his hands in his pocket. he's not going to punch obama. they want -- >> one of the best ways i think to understand what's going on is to go look -- newt had a line in his speech about challenging the president to lincoln-douglass debates and if obama doesn't accept he'll follow him around. when obama goes to cleveland newt will go to cleveland to speak. nobody in anybody's stump speech right now gets as big a reaction as that. >> reporter, reporter. >> so instead of capitalizing -- >> not on the daily beast today. he finds in the crowd exactly what you're saying that there is

that sense of scrap. >> instead of capitalizing on the biggest opportunity that republicans have had probably in how long? they're going to put someone nasty -- >> it's 1980. i can't believe it. that as complete waste. good luck to you and -- new polling points show a shifting dynamic in several key battle grounds where eroding support for democrats could spell trouble for president obama. here is "usa today" and gallup. they surveyed voters in 12 key swing states around the country all of which were carried by the president in 2008. since then the number of republican leaning voters in those places has jumped by five points while the democratic ranks had thinned by nearly the same amount. in those swing states, the president is trailing mitt romney among registered voters by five points and newt gingrich tops president obama in the battle grounds by a three-point edge. >> this is completedly out.

we saw the nbc maris poll out of south carolina. a huge disparity. here it looks like barack obama is losing to both candidates in the most important states. >> that's fascinating. and it's good news for mitt romney potentially. but i think there's stale lill of time. >> impossible to reconcile those two polls. >> it is impossible. one is dead wrong. i would guess that -- and chuck todd was sort of backing away from the nbc south carolina poll when i brought it up. basically saying, don't pay attention to that. 45 is barack obama's ceiling. but you go over these 12 swing states and you do see this is an incredible opportunity for republicans in 2012 if they don't blow it. >> it is surprising the president is so close given the state of the economy. bill clinton was much further behind bob dole but at the same time, again, to go with the republican race, this is good for newt gingrich, you know, mika, do you believe if they

nominate gingrich he'll be a huge disaster for the party, these polls suggest he is right in there with mitt romney, with the ability to win a general election. >> it'll be a huge disaster. tina, the president on 60 minutes this past weekend, his approval rating at 41%, what is -- what do you believe has happened to barack obama? he -- did he -- is he fighting his footing or is he just going to keep experiencing a slide? >> well, you know, it seems to me that the populist turn is the last kind of resort campaign in a way for barack obama. i mean, his message on "6 o minutes" seemed to be not a very compelling message i must admit. i think one of the feelings that you get is one that actually obama hasn't, doesn't like politics and hasn't liked being president and, yet, he feels he is going to just continue to fight this thing because he must. i don't get a sense of

passionate, you know, self-motivated, you know, i guess he's tired. the man is tired. but, you know, i just think this is a guy who has never really grasped the ability to be political in the way that we're talking about. i think that is in a strange way what is -- people are finding quite attractive about newt gingrich at the moment. he is willing to get into the down and dirty entrails of politics which usually isn't something very impede bing but this instance is. we're longing for barack obama to do that. >> to be a fighter. a skillful fighter. >> talking about joe biden when we see him on the stump, mika, biden takes the gloves on and starts punching in a way the president just doesn't seem capable of doing. >> i've seen that contrast and i find it attractive in the vice president and helpful often to the message. but i think the president is beginning to come out of his shell if i may. in kansas last week, i'm sorry. we don't agree on this. but he was hitting a message

that i think resonates with people very -- >> the venezuelaans would have loved it. >> very similar to bill clinton, i feel your pain. now stop it. >> the venezuelans would love it. >> he is trying to put that out there. i see it happening. >> he needs to go big i think at this point. i mean, i don't want to see the next 12 months of that kind of populist thing. i think he needs to go bigger than that. >> he's -- it's really interesting to watch him as president of the united states. he's clearly -- he is a big stage guy in -- last week he -- it was a terrific presentation, the speech. no matter what you thought of the content. it was a terrific presentation. he hammered away on the fairness theme which is a winning theme in this country and yet we have a united states senator in here recently who tells us in a commercial break that he has never been invited down to the oval office by the president of the united states. the democratic united states senator in an age politically

when every vote is important in that particular body. and he does so little apparently to woo his party members, democrats in the house and the senate, and yet he is so great on the big stage. >> it's like he dwindles down almost. he becomes isolated. >> strange. >> it is very interesting. >> yes. >> coming up we have former campaign managers and mccain palin campaign steve schmidt will be here. also "the washington post"'s eugene robinson will weigh in on what could be an extended fight for the republican nomination. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> well, good morning, mika. it is another easy travel day. we're in the middle of december when we can get some of those big snowstorms, ice storms, blizzards. nothing to talk about. it's amazing how quiet the winter is shaping up to be. we'll see if it lasts into january and february. we're looking at temperatures not that bad. we're in the 30s in most areas. no bitterly cold air out there. northern new england has some spots in the 20s but it's average for this time of the year.

today a decent afternoon with temperatures in the 40s. no problems in the airports or big cities. if you're traveling this morning the worst of it, there is actually rain this morning from los angeles southward down to ocean side and san diego. that's really the only travel trouble spot along with some rain in phoenix. middle of the country rain is on the way for you. you're watching "morning joe" on this tuesday, brewed by star buck. wow. it's a great hd tv... shhh. don't speak.

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speaker gingrich and i have a lot of places we disagree. we'll talk about those. >> why don't you name them? >> places we disagree. let's see. >> ah, um, okay. okay. i would not have taken the $1.6 million gingrich took from freddie mac for being a historian while the housing bubble was going on. or i never had to pay $300,000 to settle congressional ethics charges. i never shut down the government based on a suboptimal airforce one seating assignment. or i never menaced manhattan until i was defeated.

romney, you've got this all in the bag. you are going to crush gingrich. go! >> places where we disagree? let's see. um, we could start with his idea to have a lunar colony that would mine minerals from the moon. >> what? you start with the lunar mines idea? newt gingrich is a life support system for bad ideas. and you magically reach in and pick out his one awesome idea. >> president gingrich they're rebelling in the moon mines! >> let's see how rebellious they are when we shut it down. >> oh, my lord. 22 past the hour. he's just too nice sometimes. joining us now -- mitt. former campaign manager to mccain-palin steve schmidt joins auns in washington pulitzer

prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. gentlemen, good to have you onboard with tina mark. in the break you were saying mitt's in trouble. why? why? i don't understand. >> well, i think newt is now the clear front-run inner the race. he's ahead nationally, ahead in iowa, ahead in south carolina. if he wins iowa he'll come into new hampshire with a head of steam. romney will be back on his heels. that race will be closer than it would have seemed like it would have been a month ago. >> why is it happening? >> i think it's happening because of the point that tina made in the last segment, which is that newt gingrich is almost perfectly tuned to the sentiment of the republican based voter right now. he is playing to that audience like a maestro with a str strativarius violin, saying what they want to hear, capturing the anger. >> you helped to run mccain's campaign four years ago.

how different is the republican party in 2012 than from 2008 when you were running john mccain's campaign? >> i think that we've gone through a transition that this campaign is now taking place in a total reality show culture where, you know, on any given day this more approximates "american idol" or the other dozen reality shows than the traditional republican primary. >> why is that? >> i think it's the convergence of media, the reality show culture, the cable news cycle, the fact that there's no audience for moderation out there in the political market. >> steve, it is so frustrating when mika and i go to capitol hill and we talk to different members on both sides and we have talked to groups of democrats and groups of republicans. i could in five minutes write a list of 200 republican members of the house of representatives who would present themselves better, be more articulate,

understand policy more in depth and provide a more nuanced argument against this administration than the presidential candidates that are running right now. i mean, again, i could do it without breaking a sweat. why is it that we have been forced to watch a reality show when there are so many qualified people like mitch daniels, jeb bush, paul ryan out there? why are they standing on the sidelines? >> i think, joe, sometimes as president kennedy pointed out, sometimes when you try to ride the tiger you wind up inside of it. you've seen this over the last couple years. any insult to rush limbaugh is greeted with an immediate apology from whatever offending republican no matter rank or stature. you have someone yells you lie in the middle of the state of the union. donations flood into the website. there has been a reward system based on the intemperance of the rhetoric not on the substance of the ideas, not on, you know, the

strength of conservativism. >> right. >> as a solution to the problem. so this carnival atmosphere once started isn't that easy to shut off. we may be about to pay a big price for it. >> gene robinson it sounds like things are grim for the republican party. then you turn and look at barack obama's numbers and a series of swing polls that came out last night from "usa today." the president not faring well at all in those swing states. of course his approval rating in the low 40s. it looks right now like americans are saying a pox on both your houses. >> well, americans are justifiably not tremendously happy with either party. you know, i think the president actually though -- >> and by the way not tremendously happy with barack obama. >> yeah. yeah. that's true. and that's clear. as he acknowledged in -- on his "60 minutes" appearance on sunday. the thing is, though, that when you contrast the president with the republican reality show, and

you look at where president obama is sitting now versus where he might be if the republicans have their act together, i think they have got to be happy at the white house. i think they have to be, frankly, thrilled that newt gingrich is now leading for the republican nomination and i think that's a battle that if i were sitting where president obama is sitting right now, i would welcome. >> yeah. absolutely. >> no doubt about it. how does the president line up against mitt romney? >> well, it's a much tougher campaign. as you know, joe, for months now the white house has been running against romney. you call over there and ask about the weather and they'll say oh, by the way you see what romney said the other day. they -- clearly they saw him as the toughest potential republican challenger because of his sort of crossover appeal and the credibility that he seemed

to have on economics and finance. >> gene, that is sort of like george h.w. bush in 1980. democrats were saying the same thing about bush sr., the carter people celebrated when reagan won the nomination as he was too extreme. are we making the same mistake that democrats and the media made in 1980? >> well, joe, i knew ronald reagan, joe, and newt gingrich is no ronald reagan. >> okay. so, steve schmidt -- >> but ronald reagan to be fair wasn't ronald reagan in the summer of 1980. >> that's true. >> if you look at what people were saying about him. >> do you agree mitt romney would be a tougher opponent for president obama than newt gingrich? >> yes. if you look at the polls yes. >> so explain this base voter you're talking about that likes newt. this base voter likes hatred of obama and punching at obama and is willing to overlook massive

hypocrisy, massive, like earth changing hypocrisy that would bring down any other candidate. a history of cashing in and influence peddling. just pip krysi beyond belief. they're willing to completely overlook that and put in someone who can't even win over president obama compared to his rival. explain this. >> i think it is a mistake to say he can't win. he is a person of great flaws and also a person of great talents. but, you know, as mark pointed out, you have fantasies swirling around the heads of these republican voters in these states that newt gingrich is going to step on a stage in the fall of 2012 and intellectually demolish the president in a debate. i think the president is an effective debater. i don't think he is prone to being intellectually demolished in a debate but, nevertheless, i think that's what's swirling about in the heads of a lot of republican primary voters. they want somebody who will go and confront the president. they want somebody who will go

and confront the president intellectually on the premise of his redistribution of policies. >> don't you want someone credible? >> they want someone who will fight the president. and whether that person is, you know, totally dissident from what he said and does, i think, is beside the point. if you look at the polls right now. >> but mika, credible by whose standards? >> credible in that he can't, you know, i mean look. newt gingrich can be questioned on literally every step he has made during his political career and a lot of it adds up to hypocrisy. he's not credible. and you know that. it's not like i'm saying something unusual. >> you -- >> we spent 20 minutes laughing at things he has said. >> for a lot of republicans, and i will put myself as one of those people, a guy who had been a state senator before getting elected and serving for three weeks in the united states senate before deciding he was going to run for president of the united states, barack obama,

who harry reid said it's obvious you hate this place. you need to just get out and run for president, that guy, in 2008, wasn't a very credible candidate in the eyes not only of republicans, not only of republicans, but a lot of hillary clinton voters that looked at his flimsy resume and then hillary clinton said, are you serious? >> there is an issue of experience and then there is the issue of having experience and blowing it. and a guy who takes $1.6 million from freddie mac and continues to tell this country that it's not lobbying, that he was offering strategic advice, and says it with a straight face, is a guy who is comfortable lying. okay? >> hold on. it's my turn and then we need to go to gene. i would say, as well, a guy who is president of the united states, please, let me get it out. a guy who is president of the

united states and doesn't take on freddie and fannie, that same guy when he was united states senator for four short years got more money from freddie and fannie than any other politician in washington, d.c. and, yet, he doesn't confront freddie and fannie is every bit as compromised on this issue as newt gingrich. and that's very compromised. >> no. >> gene, it seems there aren't many clean hands in washington, d.c. right now. >> well, i'm shocked. shocked. you know, look. joe, just let's come back to reality. you tell me that you see newt gingrich going through a general election campaign. >> no i don't. >> okay. well, there you have it. i mean, i don't see it either. i don't see him making it through that campaign. i don't see the appeal to the independents who are going to decide this election. i think in the end they're going to fall away and fall away and that's to the good of president obama. >> i'm just talking -- gene, i'm

talking to the base, where mika says that, how could anybody -- asks, how could anybody look at newt gingrich as a credible candidate? all i'm saying is, a lot of republicans and a lot of hillary supporters were saying the same thing four years ago about barack obama. >> well, yeah. look, we don't know who is a credible candidate until people start voting. right? you know, and obama wasn't credible until really the iowa caucuses. and then he was suddenly extremely credible. so maybe newt will be after iowa. maybe after he does better than expected in new hampshire. we'll see. we'll see if he gets that far frankly because i think he could explode any week, any day. >> on issues like lobbying they're the ones that resonate in a negative fashion. right now the economy is such an issue it is all people are considering. someone who can fight and someone who is passionate about jobs. >> mark? >> there are no perfect candidates in this race. i would say that

gingrich/bloomberg/obama contest, republicans might have a better chance to win the white house than a one on one romney and obama. >> i think you're right. >> interesting. >> i think actually a bloomberg candidacy helps a newt gingrich. >> steve schmidt, thank you very much. >> thank you, steve. >> good to see you. >> good to see you and have you on the show. >> by the way you notice he didn't take the bait on 2008 did he? >> he did not. eugene robinson, thank you as well. >> thank you, gene. >> coming up tomorrow, mark mckinnon and kerry kennedy will join us. progresso. it fits! fantastic! [ man ] pro-gresso they fit! okay-y... okay??? i've been eating progresso and now my favorite old jeans...fit. okay is there a woman i can talk to? [ male announcer ] progresso. 40 soups 100 calories or less.

welcome back to "morning joe." a pretty shot of capitol hill as the sun comes up over washington. beautiful day. joining us now, democratic senator from michigan senator debby stabenow. thanks very much for coming back on the show. >> absolutely, mika. it is good to be with you. >> so today you will be taking on the mf global situation pertaining to jon corzine. what is going to be happening? >> we have a hearing. as you know the agriculture committee oversees the futures markets commodities because they are so important to agriculture. and we have a hearing that starts at 10:00. we'll first hear from the customers who have lost upwards

of $1.2 billion because that's really or focus. have a grain elevator operator from michigan coming in. we'll hear from farmers, business people. then we'll hear from the former ceo jon corzine as well as the cfo and the coo. we've got the top three people from mf global and we want to know why we don't know where the money is. and then finally just say we'll hear from the regulators and the trustee who has been put in charge of getting the money back to the customers. >> let me ask you a personal question, debby. we served together. >> right. >> you served obviously with jon. >> right. >> senator corzine. i like him a lot. we like him. every time he is around this table. he seems like a -- to us he seems like a really good guy. >> right. >> we hate seeing this happen to him. how hard is it for you to

gorilgrill a former friend and colleague on an issue like this? it seems you have to do your job but, personally, it has to be uncomfortable for you. >> well, joe, we have to do our job. i mean, the reality is for me i've got to keep focused on who was hurt here. i mean, we've got people in michigan that have called me that have lost money that count on the ability to hedge their risk whether a co-op or grain elevator or farmer. i've had people from michigan who are retired who have put money into accounts at mf global in order to be able to do certain kinds of investments and they've lost a lot of their money. so i've got to keep -- regardless of my personal feelings i have to keep focused on what is most important which is the fact that we have customers who put money in accounts that were supposed to be separate from the company and now folks are saying and it's

been six weeks since the bankruptcy, they don't know where the money is. that's pretty tough. >> how much are we talking about? >> upwards of $1.2 billion and so, you know, that's pretty tough right now. i think people on both sides of the aisle in our committee have a lot of questions about this. and we are hopeful we'll get some answers. >> senator, there is obviously on the front burner the issue of the extension for the payroll tax. >> right. >> that's coming up. and part of the republican proposal as i understand it which might be voted on today, tomorrow, would include apparently a freeze on the pay of federal employees. no state has been hammered as much by the economy as your state has. >> right. >> over the past several years. >> for sure. >> where do you stand on this vote and do you have any feelings about a freeze on the pay of federal employees? >> well, first of all, my office

and others in the congress have been willing to freeze pay. we have done that as the president has reached out to do this year and i think the bigger question for me, because you're right, i mean, my state has been hit harder and longer than any other state. the big question for me is why we don't say to people who have not been hit, you know, that very small group of people who have gotten special treatment and special tax deals at the very, very top, that they need to contribute as well. our proposal said, you know, we won't touch the first million so you're safe. but on the second million, the first dollar, you need to give a little bit. a 1% or 2% to help us be able to make sure the majority of americans can get a tax cut to put $1400 back in their pocket. the small businesses can get a tax cut to be able to move the economy. and i think we're all in this together and it's a reasonable thing to expect that everybody will be a part of getting the

economy going again not just one more time workers. one more time middle class. one more time senior citizens. folks in my state have paid enough. and they want everybody to be participating. >> let's talk about your state where obviously unemployment numbers are not good even in comparison to the entire country. >> right. >> what about the auto industry? are we looking at a complete turn-around or is it slow and steady and specific only to some of the auto makers? >> you know, mika, this is really a bright spot for us. we're very proud of what we all did together to support american manufacturing. making things in america which starts with automobiles. it is turning around. the efforts on advanced batteries is helping to create the next generation of vehicles. our companies are the ones winning the quality awards and we look forward to the north american auto show which is coming up in detroit in a few weeks in january.

but we are really at the front end of new technology, quality, and i think they are going to continue to keep moving very, you know, very, very well. i wish it was quicker in the sense of jobs. i mean, we still have too many people without jobs. >> yeah. >> but i feel confident that we're going to a new place on advanced manufacturing and, frankly, michigan is going to lead the way in that. >> let's hope. senator debby stabenow, thank you very much. good to have you. >> thank you, senator. >> thanks. good to be with you. >> still ahead carole king will join us on the set to talk about her new christmas album. next, a dilemma facing schools. the fight against the bulge or boost the budget? here we go. what schools in one major city are now reconsidering their ban on junk food in vending machines. why they're doing that. we'll be right back. hi, can you read my list?

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welcome back. schools in seattle have a long standing ban on junk food in vending machines but the school board is now reconsidering that ban because students are simply not buying the healthy stuff. >> it's called capitalism. i like how it tastes. >> nbc's george lewis has the story from seattle. >> reporter: in the seattle schools vending machines can dispense only healthy stuff. no soft drinks, no candy bars. it's one the toughest junk food bans in the nation. what do you have in your vending machines? >> baked chips, water, juice, yeah, not much. >> reporter: so by and large students ignore the machines and buy their junk food off campus. >> if we can go five minutes and get candy and stuff it's not

like they're preventing us from having it just making it slightly harder to obtain. >> reporter: before the junk food ban the machines generated more than $200,000 for student activities every year. this year they've only made $17,000. so the financially strapped school system is thinking of rewriting the rules. >> we're still sitting with the same policy we had seven years ago so it's time to take a look. >> reporter: parents we talked to seemed divided on the idea of relaxing the junk food ban. >> really not a fan. i think kids should -- any chance they get should get something halfway healthy. any chance. >> as a parent i mean, you know, if you have a -- i'm always worried if one of my kids is at school and feeling low and needs energy, before they're taking a test or something i'd rather have them have a snicker bar than nothing. >> but any talk about relaxing the rules has some dieticians up in arms. >> i don't think it can be an option to go backwards and now create revenue from unhealthy

food items for children. we know there is an obesity epidemic in our country. >> students who have been lobbying for the rule change say their efforts have been somewhat misrepresented. misrepresented. >> we are not bringing back junk food, the cokes, the chips, the bad stuff. we're not bringing that back. what we're trying to do is modify the current policy in order to bring other nutritious foods back that students will buy. >> this debate is giving students and parents in seattle plenty of food for thought. >> it's complicated. >> yeah, it's complicated. >> and it's not fun. george lewis reporting, thank you very much. >> stop it. >> you know, skittles has eight of -- you want any? >> they're not just for lunch anymore. >> they're not. >> eight of the essential vitamins and nutrients. >> you just spilled the skittles. >> you may not have them. still ahead, the nation's newest heisman winner takes a victory lap on letterman. the top ten things that went through his mind. and save money.

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top ten thoughts that went through robert griffin's mind when he won the 1911 heisman trophy award. number ten -- >> now if i don't have i.d., all

i have to do is this. >> number nine -- >> wonder how much i can get for the trophy on pawn stars. >> number eight -- >> time to focus on my next goal. a latin grammy. >> a latin grammy. >> number seven -- >> this thing is going to be a nightmare to get through airport security. >> number six -- >> thanks to tim tebow for putting in a word with the man upstairs. >> number five -- >> and everyone laughed when i asked santa for a heisman. >> number four -- >> will my teammates mind if i shower with the trophy? >> number three -- >> indianapolis colts, here i come. >> yeah! oh, man. number two --

>> crap, now i have to appear on letterman. >> that's right. and the number one thought that went through robert griffin iii's mind when he won the heisman trophy -- >> how long before kim kardashian calls? >> still ahead, we'll break down the latest poll numbers from iowa. there are signs newt gingrich may have peaked a little too early. some might indicate that. everyone have their new blackberry from at&t? it's 4g, so you can do more faster. so, kathryn, post more youtube videos of your baby acting adorable. baby. on it. matt, ignore me and keep updating your fantasy team. huh? jeff, play a game. turbo-boosting now, sir. dennis, check in everywhere you go on foursquare. that's mayor dennis... of the water cooler. you're the best. liz, rock out to pandora. oh, no i'm an only child. and nick, you shouldn't even be here, you can do everything from the golf course. good? good. [ male announcer ] on at&t, blackberry® torch moves at the speed of 4g.

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set we have mike barnacle looking well dressed, for once. mark halperin and andy serwer. >> what's happening? you've been up to new hampshire. you are hang with the kid on the street corner. >> spent the day there yesterday. >> what are they telling you in between songs? >> it's a very unsettled. the voting is in three weeks but it feels like a couple of months out and yet we had a big engagement between romney and gingrich yesterday. i think either of them could win iowa and either of them could win new hampshire and that's exciting. >> it is exciting. ron paul staying steady in polls. and mike barnacle if newt gingrich were self-aware, that is sort of like saying if we could actually mine rocks on the

moon. >> that's not something that's going to happen. >> if newt gingrich were self-aware, he would realize that he darted to the lead about three weeks early. it's kind of like when you were a cleveland browns fan in the 1990s and you went ahead in the playoffs with a minute left. and you had to give the ball back to elway. >> yeah. >> you should have taken the lead about 45 seconds. i think we're going to see a drip, drip, of support away from gingrich. not necessarily all towards romney, but back towards michele bachmann and rick santorum and some of the other conservative candidates. and, of course, ron paul. >> i don't know where that support is going to go. i agree with you that he may have peaked three weeks too early. i think the larger story anecdotally is the amount of indecision there is out there among primary voters.

you ask them, who are you going to go for? i kind of like gingrich or romney but they don't nail it down. and nobody is saying i love this guy. either one. gingrich or romney. that's kind of interesting. >> gingrich has to figure out the expectations game a little bit. he's had such big leads in polls over the last few days that if he ends up winning some of these contests narrowly it may not give him the decisive blow against romney he needs. he still needs to win quick. winning a long contest can be very hard for him. >> so we were talking with a romney supporter the other night. somebody pretty high up in the organization. and they said something that if they'd said it on air, we would have laughed at them, but i actually believe it. that if romney -- if, a big if -- can turn things around, what has happened over the past two weeks would be the best thing that could ever have happened to him because expectations have crashed for mitt romney.

>> crumbled. >> they've crashed in iowa, in new hampshire in south carolina, in florida, across the country. if newt comes down to earth, which he will and mitt creeps up a little bit, the expectations game for him is going to be pretty darn good. >> well, when barnacle said that nobody loved these guys a lot, or completely, the one thing that's different between them that could complicate things and i mean this in all seriousness, i do is that newt has -- he loves himself a lot. and that does help. i mean, he really -- it is -- i have never seen anything like it. he is the most unself aware person i have ever seen on the political scene ever. ever. >> and that's saying a lot considering who she sits next to. >> considering we're talking about politics and who i sit next to. >> he's a student of history. >> it's amazing his self-adulation. and it's what it takes sometimes. >> churchill and de gaulle. you name it. >> not necessarily a criticism.

i guess it could be effective. following a number of polls showing newt gingrich opening up a wide margin in iowa, two new surveys are out that windicate his lead could be starting to slip. the american research group is out with a new poll showing gingrich with a five-point lead over ron paul and mitt romney. that's nearly within the poll's margin of error. while the survey shows gingrich with a ten-point lead over romney, an adviser to the poll says the results show gingrich's support may be starting to slide as it has with previous front-runners. the poll adviser says gingrich has minimal staff and grassroots organization in iowa may be unable to turn out as many supporters as other candidates did -- will on january 3rd. and there was that issue about -- >> this poll it's a ten-point gingrich lead. the other poll shows a five-point gingrich lead in iowa. and you say some of the romney people get a sense that some of the numbers may be slipping.

again, just like they did with herman cain and rick perry and just like they did with michele bachmann and with every front-runner. >> one of my favorite concepts in politics is natural tightening. at the end of the race as the voting gets close, people with big polls tighten up. >> gingrich isn't going to win florida by 35 points no matter what happens. we're seeing that tightening now. it's an expectations game. it doesn't make any sense. bob dole won the iowa caucuses in 1996. crippled him going into new hampshire because he won by a narrow margin. on caucus night, the exit -- the entrance poll tightened and made it seem like he was losing a lead in one sense. gingrich has a problem with expectations. this could help him because if it's tighter and he ends up winning, a win will be a win. >> and, andy, there are laws of politics. like there are laws of physics. and until somebody breaks those laws, then i'm going to keep believing the laws. and in iowa, in new hampshire,

in these early states, you have to organize. newt hasn't organized. he hasn't spent a lot of time in new hampshire -- in iowa. i just -- >> what goes up must come down sometimes in politics. >> i think it's going to be very tight. >> but one thing that i thought was very interesting, i saw a poll in new hampshire that indicated even as newt was coming up, because this was in late november, he didn't run as strongly against obama as mitt romney did. and, you know, that's a pretty critical issue. in other words, ultimately you'll be running against the big guy. and if you don't have faith you can beat the big guy, that really undermines your candidacy. and that could come back to haunt him. people really think that mitt is more presidential than newt gingrich is, which i can see them thinking. then what are they going to really think when push comes to shove on that election night. >> right. >> some interesting things were happening pertaining to this. within hours of those new poll numbers, several conservative

figures from the right began striking back against gingrich. among them, executive editor of the weekly standard, fred barnes who expresses concern at the former speaker's new line of attack on mitt romney. newt gingrich has adopt an anti-free market argument favorite of the political left to criticize mitt romney. gingrich accused his rival of making money by bankrupting companies and laying off employees in his years at bain capital. but bain capital was engaged in the rough and tumble market of capitalism. thus gingrich's criticism coming from a conservative was surprising. his attack echos the chris simp of romney by the late senator ted kennedy in 1994. romney ran against kennedy when the senator sought re-election. kennedy won aided by brutal, unfair tv ads criticizing romney for killing jobs. >> fred barnes who was one of the conservatives that defended gingrich last week when others were starting to come out.

fred barnes uncovers a sad truth about newt gingrich, which is he will say whatever he has to say at the time something has to be said to make a point to take a cheap shot. and here he did sound like ted kennedy, just like he sounded like ted kennedy when he called paul ryan a right wing radical. just like he sound like barack obama when he's aborted a $7 billion medicare drug benefit scheme. i mean, newt is -- when conservatives lash out at those who are critical of newt gingrich, it is farce because he is not a conservative. he's never been a conservative. and here he's actually criticizing mitt romney for being a free market capitalist. >> there's so much to say. look. at the same time, romney is criticizing gingrich for wanting to eliminate capital gains taxes on everyone, including the

wealthiest. so romney has done the same thing. he's attacked from the populist economic left on gingrich. it's a principle distinction for romney and it is for gingrich, too. this is a weakness that romney has in a general election and with a lot of populist republicans, a lot of tea party republicans, they don't like the fact that -- they don't like the fact the way mitt romney made money. it's not a crazy political argument. and substantively there's some sense to it. >> it's offensive, though, to free capitalists. and mike barnacle, it's one of the things that even democratic ceos who go into the white house are offended by is the fact that barack obama has no idea how the free market works sometimes when he looks at them and says why can't you just hire people. can you go out and hire people? no, mitt romney started something at bain capital where he looked at companies that weren't going to survive. like staples was one of them. and he said, how do we make these companies stronger? and you know how he did it?

not by government mandate. he did it by saying, how will this company be strong nest the free market so we can prosper and hire more people down the road? what doesn't newt gingrich understand about that? should newt and the president get together and talk economics? >> romney and a guy by the name of stom stember created staples. the interesting thing about the reference to ted kennedy in the 1994 campaign is that the point of vulnerability of romney's candidacy in 1994 as exposed in one particular tv ad about a company that bain bought in ohio and closed it. >> indiana. >> in indiana. i knew it was the midwest some place. remains the same point of vulnerability for him today. >> he better get used to it if he is a candidate in the general election because that's going to come out big time. >> guess what. the way you answer that, the way you answer that attack is by saying, damn right i did. you know why i did? i did it not so those people would be laid off and thrown out

in the streets in midwestern towns but because we wanted to build companies that would grow because they were going to be fired sooner or later. those companies were going down. they would close. so whether they were out on the street the day that i put them on the street or six months later, they would have been out of work. instead icreated companies that grew that could rehire them and could be toornd hire their children. >> you might be able to win that argument on a debating stage and you might be able to win it, silver tongue devil against mitt romney, against newt gingrich in iowa and south carolina. but i think that fight in south carolina and iowa, given the unemployment rate, i'm not sure gingrich couldn't win that argument in a republican primary. >> mitt romney better -- >> he better be able to -- >> mitt romney is a slow learner, mika, on a lot of issues. he better figure this one out and he better, instead of backing away from it he better charge in full steam and defend capitalism. >> one second, one second, one second.

>> defend capitalism. defend the free market. defend what he did at bain capital as actually something that created staples. can you imagine how many people staples has employed? and how many of these other companies he created have employed? >> well, i think romney is getting it. i think he is. and i think i've got two stories for you. one which is a gimmick, this radio host offering him money. but romney asking for the money back. you want michael savage or -- >> let's start with michael savage. conservative radio host michael savage posted on his website last night, newt gingrich is unelectable. mitt romney is the only candidate with a chance of defeating obama and there's nothing more important than for that to happen for the health, future safety of the united states. therefore, i'm offering newt gingrich $1 million to drop out of the presidential race for the sake of the nation. >> that's capitalism. >> that's a good gimmick. >> gingrich will take money. >> maybe $1.3 million. >> $1.3 million. >> move past this.

>> no, no, i want to get -- >> romney has done something really good here. really effective. i think it will define the two. >> fine you do it. >> i bash glenn beck when he says really inflammatory statements. last week glenn had newt on and asked newt the types of questions that conservatives need answers to. and then yesterday, glenn beck said something that i guarantee you a lot of small government conservatives, like me, have thought. and that is, if i have to choose between barack obama and newt gingrich, a guy that george wills said would have been a marvelous marxist and was the opposite of being a small government conservative, if ron paul is running as a third party candidate, i'm going to give him the long look because i can't vote for the two guys who worship at the altar of big government in their own separate ways. and that's the problem with the newt gingrich candidacy.

he's not a small government conservative. >> if you give wind to ron paul that would just be all she wrote. >> yeah. >> right? >> i think ron paul with newt gingrich out there would get 5%, 10% and that would re-elect barack obama. newt gingrich re-elects barack obama under any scenario. >> here's how romney is pushing back, suggesting the former house speaker should return the $1.6 million his firm was paid for advising mortgage giant freddie mac. i like this. this should be effective. you have to explain to me why it wouldn't be. gingrich was just as aggressive in his response. here we go again, slamming romney's career at venture capital firm bain capital while taking a shot at his debate wager this past weekend. >> i would just say that if governor romney would like to give back all the money he's earned from bankrupting companies and laying off employees over his years at bain, that i would be glad to listen to him. and i'll bet you $10, not

$10,000, that he won't take the offer. >> by the way, newt gingrich -- >> like what i said before. >> newt gingrich said all the companies that mitt romney bankrupted. see, as if men and governments bankrupt companies. instead of markets bankrupting companies. if those companies were making a lot of money, then mitt romney -- >> you were right. he could do it. >> then mitt romney would have said you know what i'm going to do with those companies? i'm going to keep them in our stable because we'll make money. but newt gingrich believes that men bankrupt companies instead of free markets. >> when he feels like it. >> when he feels like it. let's just be real here. >> we brought up ron paul. you, though, want to go back to somebody else who you believe may run as an independent. >> i think if newt gingrich is the nominee, i think, you know, you'd finishing you were a republican you'd be upset if, like michael savage is that newt gingrich nominee would lose the

race. someone like probably michael bloomberg who will say in this field of gingrich, paul, obama, i can win and that's all bloomberg has wanted all along is a chance to win. up next, the great carole king joins us on set to talk about her new christmas album. also, they were almost presidents. 12 men who lost the presidential election but whose campaigns forever influenced a nation. but first, a man who rarely influences anyone and -- >> sure doesn't influence the weather. >> when we toss to him, we just turn away and move on with our lives. >> do you really think if i could influence the weather i'd spend it up here on this catwalk hovering over your set every day? good morning, everyone. cold temperatures continue to plague us in the morning. but the afternoons have been pretty nice lately. temperatures in the low 30s to start around the east coast. this afternoon, it's not going to be too bad. even the big cities in new england, like boston, providence and hartford back into the 40s. barely any snow on the ground in

this region. looking good. high temperatures today near 50 in d.c. that's nice to go for a walk on your lunch hour. from the west coast, just a little rain left over from san diego to oceanside just south of l.a. today's bad travel weather will be moving from the desert areas of arizona to new mexico and eventually a lot of rain in the middle of the country late today and definitely tomorrow. i tell you what. as far as december weather pattern goes and lack of cold and lack of snow, it's been a very, very strange winter so far. we'll see what happens as we go to january and february. you're watching morning joe, brewed by starbucks. the employee of the month is... spark card from capital one. spark cash gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card.

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♪ ♪ have yourself a merry little christmas ♪ >> and that is carole king singing "have yourself a merry christmas." >> with the background of the comcast commerce tree. it is christmas in new york. >> it's true. it all works. >> the album is called "a holiday carole" with an "e." >> so i got this cd and we play it at home. but look at this. it's 1974 again. i'm so happy. >> you're in your element. >> an lp. >> an lp. we decided to put it out on vinyl because not only my demographic likes it but my

grandchildren's demographic likes it. >> and they are in the album. >> well, yes, they are. the one that so's old enough to like vinyl. yeah, he is 2. >> and your daughter produced it with you. >> this is a family affair. >> absolutely. >> and it was really fun to do. i'd never had her produce anything for me, but it was butter. it was so easy. >> means she didn't come out and yell at you? >> no. >> no mother/daughter nights? >> no. >> barnacle, that doesn't sound like what would happen if we worked with our boys on something. >> i don't even want to talk about that. but i haven't seen -- i haven't seen an album cover -- an album in years. >> an album. >> does it come with a turntable? >> it would probably need to, i guess. >> no, just bring your old one out from -- >> not only that, but the intro, you know, when you hear it, you just want to play it out. you just want to sit and listen to it. >> it's great. are you surprised by the great

response to this? i mean, it's -- because everybody that hears it just absolutely loves it. >> i am always surprised when there's a great response to anything, but -- >> still? >> louise put together a collection of songs, and, you know, with me, but it was her driving that is not just the usual, you know, everybody does the same old songs. and i do a few of the same old songs but we do them in new ways. "carol of the bells" we have a choir. >> right. yeah. >> so it was -- i am surprised a little bit, but yet not. i mean, people are responding great. >> i'm sorry, were you about to -- >> you said you do songs in different ways. i thought particularly interesting that you did "do you hear what i hear" as a rap. >> no, i didn't. >> i'm thinking of something maybe run dmz did. >> you have a memoir coming out next year? >> it will be released, published, is what they say in

april. we're getting the gallies. >> it's exciting. >> barnacle's wife would like barnacle to have some gal li es come to his house. >> it's the holiday season. >> a little charity. >> i can't wait for the memoir because we had talked about it, gosh, maybe six months ago. some amazing stories. >> i do. and one of them that i didn't put in the book was going backstage at the paul mccartney concert. i got a disposition to take you to the paul mccartney concert. it was fun. he was just as warm and friendly to me and to all my guests, of which you were one. >> exactly. >> very cool. >> obviously, you watch this show not because of the music that we play but you are very, very fascinated by what goes on in government. and that's where we first met.

>> that's right. >> you were fighting for the environment. >> still am. >> how is that battle going for you? >> it's not going well and it's because when people are struggling to hold on to their houses and wondering how they're going to afford to buy their children's shoes, they're not thinking about protecting the environment. and i like to say, you know, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. we can do both. and it's something, yes, we need to take care of first and foremost people's need for a better economy and jobs, but we also need to think of the longer term because when the economy turns around as it eventually must, that's a sustainable economy is people coming to see these places and spending their money in the local communities like the one where i live in idaho. >> so what's happening right now in the house, in the senate at the white house, with some of your initiatives? >> the northern rockies ecosystem protection act which i've been out there carrying for about 20 -- more than 20 years,

carolyn maloney, our principal sponsor, has introduced it again and it's not going to go anywhere in the republican house. we know that but we're just keeping it out there. the other issue that i'm really concerned about is this wild horse issue that i just read last friday an article that actually started out saying these terrible abuses such as whipping, captured -- first of all, running wild horses with helicopters into corrals, terrifying them. then they whip them in the fairx kick them in the head. they being the bom people and the people associated with them. bureau of land management. and all this hardship on the horses. but the director bob abby says, well, that's not really inhumane and we'll -- we need to do some retraining of our people. how about stopping the round-ups. there is no reason for it. the cattleman's associations say we need to protect those lands from the degradation by the

horses. they do not degrade the land. >> what do horses do to degrade -- >> i was just going to ask. seriously, they throw away their yoohoos. >> toss beer cans -- >> horses degrading the quality of the land? i think they have it backwards. >> they do. because the cattle are the ones that degrade the streams. cattle tend to gather around where the water is and stomp on where the streams are. the horses range on the whole canyon. the cattle typically range right around the water. >> what do they do with the horses once they herd them into specific -- >> they spent $60 million a year of our tax money to round them up, move them to holding corrals where they are presumably waiting to be adopted, but what they are actually doing now, they've just defunded inspections on horse meat. that just happened. so now they are going to be sold as horse meat and they're not being adopted fast enough, that's true. who can afford to adopt a horse

these days. >> so let me ask you, what do you think -- we've obviously been talking over the past couple of months about occupy wall street and the 1% versus the 99%. what's your take on that? some musicians have gone down while you were recording your album. >> i am one of the 1%, and i identify with the 99%. and i actually -- my governor, butch otter came to one of my local towns and made a capital for a day. we had this discussion about how we would fund the american jobs act because i noticed he had used stimulus money, american recovery act money, to give jobs to my neighbors all summer fixing the roads. and i went to thank him for that. >> you live in a hotbed of liberalism in idaho. >> i am the hotbed of liberalism. >> it is a very, very small bed

in idaho, and you for. >> actually, i think other members of my community would like to speak out and don't because the community, you know, sometimes in communities, if everybody identifies as republicans, it's very hard to speak out as a democrat. i have no issues about doing that. and i was very respectful to my governor when i thanked him for this. when i said -- and i understand that the american recovery act had funded this, he backed away from that so fast he left smoke on this stage. was like we didn't use recovery act money for that. that could only be used for new projects, not rehab. and i didn't think to say well then the money you use, you know, that money would have been freed up to use for the rehab. >> what do you think. >> are you okay? >> i'm told to hold the album cover up. >> we're talking about the recovery act. >> we're talking about t.j. >> t.j. is talking about during the break. come on -- >> during the break you can hold

it up. >> we're still talking. >> i could go on this -- >> where are you on gingrich? >> no iwould ask people to apply common sense. he has an answer for everything. just look at his life and what he's done and how he's changed and look at all the candidates and see nobody is perfect, but i think common sense would say that newt gingrich is not an ideal candidate for president. >> what do you most seize on to say that? >> what are you doing now? >> no, no, i -- >> i would say the fact that he is critical of fannie mae and freddie mac and says people should be jailed for having any association with them and then to take money from them and claim he took it as a historian is like americans, common sense. use your common sense. >> would you serve as a spokesman for the romney campaign? that was pretty good? >> no, i am a spokesman for common sense, and common sense for me is re-electing barack

obama. >> there are a lot of progressives, even a lot of moderate democrats who are concerned the president, they don't believe it's enough of a fighter. in a lot of different areas. i'm sure you thought when he got elected and democrats took over the house and senate that some of your battles would succeed. have you been disappointed, and if you have, just generally, not specifically to your issues, generally, are you okay putting that behind you to support the president moving forward? >> it's a great question. and i'm really prepared to answer it because i have spent a lot of my time in this life over the last 20 years being in and out of the halls of congress and talking to members and staff, the all-important staff. and you can't just walk in there and make the changes you want to make. he does want to make those changes. but there are so many other

factors, there are so many people who are responsive to industrial interests. there are so many people that it's just such a bigger problem. and then you have the economy that he inherited, too. he's doing what he can and i think he's doing a great job. considering he's not doing everything i would want on every level, but, man, he's going in the right direction. he's trying to get us there. i think the american jobs act is a brilliant idea. tell me why the republicans, and i am saying the elected republicans, because i have a lot of respect for republican voters who when they apply common sense, it works. i think that the republicans holding the payroll tax cut hostage for the keystone pipeline is ridiculous. it's a poison pill so they want to be able to say, well, barack obama didn't support the payroll tax cuts. it's just wrong. but that is what he came and

encountered. and he was familiar with it as a senator. but when you are president and when you are hated by so many people, just because you are who you are, i think that's a big problem. >> why don't you buy a ranch house in northern california and just go back and forth between northern california and idaho and run for office. >> you know what, joe, i am -- i've been a surrogate on the trail. i love campaigning. i would not want the job. >> understood. you're not alone. >> you're smart. >> the new album is "a holiday carole." carole king, really great to have you on the show. up next, the candidates who lost the presidential election and still went on -- >> you're a spokesmodel, barnacle. >> she's going to sing? after? >> we're going to figure out -- >> what's wrong with you? >> come on. okay. >> we'll be right back.

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the american people have spoken, and they have spoken clearly. a little while ago, i had the honor of calling senator barack obama to congratulate him -- please. to congratulate him on being elected the next president of the country that we both love.

we fought as hard as we could. and though we fell short, the failure is mine, not yours. >> that was, of course, senator john mccain making his concession speech in 2008. he's one of the subjects featured in a new book by author scott farris called "almost president: the men who lost the race but changed a nation." thank you for being with us. you have fascinating portages of henry clay, william jennings bryant, al smith, thomas dewey, adelaide stevenson, barry goldwater, many more. but you talk about how in this book, somebody who lost the race actually shaped future campaigns. >> that's right. >> i think these guys have been overlooked by history a lot. sometimes these losing campaigns have more impact on our political system than some of the winning campaigns have. so it seems like when you only study about the winners you are only telling half the story. >> let's start with the most

obvious, i think most americans, most political scientists know that barry goldwater's 1964 loss eventually led to reagan's victory in 1978. explain how that happened. what goldwater represented. he represented the conservative capture of the gop and took the party in a slightly new direction to the right. the other thing he did because he voted against the civil rights act of 1964 was able to make inroads into the southern white vote which, of course, had been democratic for generations. and you think about if it had been nelson rockefeller, the nominee in '64 that wouldn't have happened. goldwater was instrumental in changing the political philosophy and direction of the political party but broadening the republican base to include the south. >> a subject a little less obvious. adelaide stevenson defeated in 1952 and 1956 by dwight eisenhower. blown out in two landslide elections. derided as hopelessly out of touch and an intellectual. >> the reason i was drawn to adelaide stevenson, there's a

new mimion in politics where every year there's a charge made the democrats represent an intellectual elite that is out of touch with average americans and republicans sort of represent the real america, middle america, however you want to phrase it. that really all started in the '52 campaign where adelaide stevenson was accused of talking over the heads of the american people. the conservative columnist famously said, all the egg heads are for stevenson. and so that was really where that whole idea that the democrats have lost their working class roots started. >> it's that wing of the party, one of stevenson's own people famously came to him after touring the country, came back and said we've got the intellectuals, the professors. we've got all of them. and stevenson said that's great. how do we reach out to the other 99%. >> well, before we get to other races, i'm just looking at your background. you ran for congress back in 1998. how did that race shape anything

in terms of your focus and the angle that you take on putting together this book? >> it was the impetus. >> i ran as a democrat in wyoming. you have to have quite a bit of heart to do that in the first place. i did lose. you spand lot of money, a lot of time. a lot of effort. a lot of people who become involved in your campaigns. you wonder, what was this all about? did i make a difference? it started me thinking about, what is the role of the losing candidates in our politics. is it an important role or totally forgettable. as you gone through more recent political campaigns in 2004 and '08, it solidified this notion that someone should explore what losing candidates do -- what their role is in the process. >> you were just with george mcgovern. so first of all, tell us about his health because there was an incident when you were with him. and mcgovern's role in changing the landscape of condition cven

politics with all the reforms. >> i was with him. he was -- c span has been doing a series called "the contenders." sort of highlighting some of the famous losing candidates. on december 2nd was supposed to be a segment on senator mcgovern. i flew to mitchell, south dakota, where he lives and where the mcgovern center was. he was going to be on the show. he tripped and fell, banged his head pretty severely. he's been in the hospital for the last several weeks. fortunately, i think he's recovering. he's 89. a great gentleman. he was very excited about having his legacy resurrected. in answer to the question on '72. after the '68 convention, the reformers in the party were outraged humphrey had been the nominee without running in or winning a single nominee. mcgovern was picked as a chairman to reform the delegate process where most of the states now have caucuses and primaries. they are much more open than they were before. trying to aggressively expand the role of women, minorities,

the young and dell krat process and really transform the process for both parties. the democrats did it first but the republicans now have followed. this year, for example, one of the interesting things that may impact the nomination process, there's no winner take all primaries at all on the republican side. >> no doubt. >> part of that movement led by george mcgovern's very smart young guy gary hart. >> that's true. >> and texas coordinator named bill clinton and his assistant was a woman named hillary rodham. a lot of legacies. >> we're only three years out from it but how would you appraise senator mccain's post-loss career and influence. >> one thing i wrote about and gore to kerry in the olden days you lost the presidency, it wasn't a big deal. you were still considered an important statesman. henry clay got nominated three times. but then the age of television and the post-war period, once you lost, you were kind of a pariah.

guys like mike dukakis having a tough time even getting a speaking slot at the next democratic convention. about gore, kerry and mccain, they've all tried to become more relevant. dukakis went back to teach school. dole retired from public service. mccain has tried to assume the old mantel of being a leading critic of obama very early on. his speech which we saw to open the segment, very gracious. did a lot to healing the divisions of the election, but pretty quickly he said, he's our president but let me tell you he's doing things wrong and trying to be a spokesperson for the gop. >> the book is "almost president." scott farris, thank you so much. nice to meet you. >> pleasure. up next, new numbers crossing right now on the holiday shopping season and how it's shaping up. business before the bell with tyler matheson next on "morning joe." ♪

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ttd# 1-800-345-2550 time for business before the bell. let's get a check on it with the host of "power lunch," tyler matheson. we'll start with the markets. good morning. >> hi, mika. the markets are pointing to a slightly higher open. europe closed positively, or excuse me, did not close, but is selling positively today. and prices look like they may bounce back from yesterday's soggy story. one of the stories that investors will be processing today is retail sales. those numbers came out about 15 minutes ago. and they were somewhat disappointing, frankly. they showed just a 0.2% gain in the month of november.

that was the slowest pace in -- since i believe june and well off of the 0.6% gain in october. now what slowed down curiously were food sales and a couple of other things. what was pretty good were sales of automobiles and electronics which would suggest that people are out buying and doing some holiday shopping. but right now, the markets look like they're going to point higher. last time i was on with you, they were pointing higher and then somebody in europe opened his or her mouth and they went in the tank rather abruptly. >> tyler matheson with the mood of the markets. thank you so much. we'll see you tomorrow. >> we should have mood of the markets with tyler. our mood of the markets with matheson. >> you think you could do it? >> i think it works. >> we could sell that. >> and by the way, a tweet from frank bruney. today, rick perry said that solyndra was a country, right?

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the entire nation of norway is facing a butter crisis thanks

to a popular new low carb, fat rich diet. we're told it sent butter sales soaring 20% there in october and 30% last month. now the country's entire stockpile is gone. >> let me just say to all my norwegian viewers in your face, norgies. america wins again because we live in a butter topia. we've got stick butter, tub butter, whipped butter, honey butter and spray butter. we have so many [ bleep ] kinds of butter that we have produced a product called i can't believe it's not butter. because -- because if you pick up any random object in the united states, there's a good chance it's butter. at our state fairs we carve butter into historical figures. we deep fry entire sticks of butter in other butter. but, of course if you are talking about pure unadulterated

butter flavor, i believe you cannot beat it fresh on the cob. i tell you what. i tell you what, norway. that could use some more butter. i'm meteorologist bill karins. we're watching rain moving into the middle of the country. chicago, kansas city and st.

louis. get ready for about two days of on and off rain. right now that storm is located in areas of mexico and arizona. east coast is just fine. as we look out west, still raining for you in l.a. even some downpours in phoenix. slip-on's the way to go. more people do that, security would be like -- there's no charge for the bag. thanks. i know a quiet little place where we can get some work done. there's a three-prong plug. i have club passes. [ male announcer ] now there's a mileage card that offers special perks on united, like a free checked bag, united club passes, and priority boarding. thanks. ♪ okay. what's your secret? ♪ [ male announcer ] the new united mileageplus explorer card. get it and you're in. [ female announcer ] we never forget the nearly 12 million cancer survivors in america today... and the countless lives lost. we owe it to them to protect funding for cancer research, prevention and access to care.

congress, make cancer a priority and give millions of americans what they need most. nyqui tylenol: me, too. and cougnasal congestion.ers? congress, make cancer a priority nyquil:what? tissue box (whispering): he said nasal congestion... nyquil: i heard him. anncr vo: tylenol cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion... nyquil cold & flu doesn't.

welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnacle fascinated with the concept of vinyl. mike, what did you learn today? >> i learned they are still sort of making albums. carole king's new christmas album. but digital download card included. >> that's for the kids. >> there you go. >> fabulous. >> it is a great lp. what have you learned? >> the romney campaign should hire carole king as a spokesman. >> we should thank t. boone pickens and the national football coaches foundation for having us emcee their gala last night. >> we had a wonderful time