presidential candidate who said extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. and i've got great news for "hardball" fans. my wife, kathleen, the queen, is going to join me here with us a week from now. that's next thursday. to talk about the year that was. "the ed show" with ed schultz starts right now. good evening, americans. and welcome to "the ed show." tonight live from washington, d.c. i'm here this evening with democratic leader in the house nancy pelosi. and in just a moment we're going to be talking about republican obstruction on jobs, tax cuts, and a possible government shutdown which is looming. later tonight we'll also visit with senator bernie sanders of vermont about his efforts to overturn citizens united. former new york governor elliot spitzer with us this evening along with eugene robinson of the "washington post." they'll be here to give analysis of the interview and respond to the answers that the leader gives us tonight. and we have the latest on the

justice department effort to fight voter suppression at the polls. this is "the ed show," live from washington, d.c. let's get to work. the payroll tax holiday is set to expire for 160 million working americans. more than 2 million of the nation's unemployed are on the verge of losing their benefits. the government could shut down if a deal is not reached. these are the consequences, i think, of a republican obstruction in congress. today house democratic leader nancy pelosi didn't tiptoe around the real reason this republican-dominated congress can't get anything done for the american middle class. >> we're all haunted by senator mcconnell, the minority leader in the senate, saying the single most important thing we want to achieve is for president obama to be a one-term president. the single most important thing we want to achieve is for president obama to -- not the single most important thing we want to do is to create jobs for the american people, to grow our

economy, to educate our children, to keep our country safe. the most important thing is to make the president a one-term president. >> and i am joined tonight by house democratic leader nancy pelosi. leader, thank you for being here tonight. i appreciate it. >> pleasure. welcome to washington, ed. >> i have to ask you, have you ever seen the divide in this government as great as it is right now? the atmosphere. >> well, it is a difficult time. no question about that. it was terrible when the gingrich republican majority in congress set out to impeach president clinton. that was not a very good time, either. but what's interesting now is just to see how brazen the republicans are when we need to have a tax, payroll tax cut for -- that will affect, as you said, 160 million americans and they are saying not one red cent from 300,000 americans who make over a million dollars a year. >> how close are you -- >> it's stunning. >> what kind of progress was made today, if any? how close are you to a deal on

the payroll tax holiday, the unemployment, and the potential government shutdown? >> well, we're moving toward agreement. i hope that it will be possible. it always gets harder as you get toward the end. but our appropriators have worked in a bipartisan way. we think the bill was much improved because the republicans wanted to avoid having to go to the payroll tax debate. but now they will have to. so i'm optimistic -- >> why will they have to? >> -- there will not be a government shutdown. >> there will not be a government shutdown? >> there will not be. >> you're optimistic of that? >> i'm optimistic of that. >> i hear it on radio all the time, i get a lot of people, people in the democratic movement, progressive movement, are afraid that the democrats are going to cave in. what are you willing to give up to get this deal, if anything? >> well, we have to have -- we have to go forward to get the payroll tax cut. and the point is that i think the president and the democratic members of congress have made the payroll tax cut too hot for the republicans to handle.

remember, in the beginning they didn't want to -- they were not even going to hear of doing such a thing. and then they passed a bill which made it practically impossible to enact. but now they'll have to come closer to that. but we still have to continue to make the fight. because it's not just about the payroll tax cut. that's important. it's about tax fairness. and even if we don't have the surcharge on those making over a million dollars as a pay for here, we still have to address the issue of tax fairness at some point. >> well, tax fairness, does that mean there will be a revenue component in this deal, that you will get the wealthiest americans to serve up some revenue? >> i don't think so. but i don't think that that issue is off the table as we go forward. but in any arrangement now to keep government open you saw that the announcement was made that they couldn't get 60 votes in the senate. the obstructionists of the republicans there. >> what about pay freezes for federal employees? what about cuts of some 200,000 employees on the federal payroll? >> well, it was interesting that

they would say in order to get a tax cut, payroll tax cut, to 160 million americans, which is very important to those families, $1,500 in the pockets of 160 million working americans, that injects demand into the economy to create jobs. it's not only important to the families. it has macroeconomic impact. as do the extension of the unemployment insurance. but again, don't touch one hair on the head of the wealthiest people in our country making 300,000 wealthiest families. so again, this -- it's an issue that we will have with us because we're on two different paths about fairness and opportunity in our country. >> what is fairness? what are you driving at here? >> well, what i call fairness is democrats are committed to reigniting the american dream, to build ladders of opportunity so that all americans will work hard, play by the rules, take

responsibility, can reach success. we have work to do. and we have to make sure that as we build that we build it on a strong foundation. and that fairness for the middle class cannot come unless we have a change in reform and how campaigns are financed because the role of big money, special interest money in campaigns just snuffs out the voice of millions of people -- >> and i want to talk more about campaign finance reform and what the democrats want to do. but are you convinced that this will not be viewed by democrats and liberals in this country as a cave in to the republicans, that at the end of the day of this deal it will be acceptable to the democrats? >> well, i certainly hope it will be because it is -- we have to have the payroll tax -- we said we were not going home for the holidays unless we had it. now, we'll have to have some form of it and continue, and

continue the fight. but this issue of -- you have to give the republicans credit. they really stick with the guy what brung them to the dance. they protect the wealthy. and it's hard to explain because they have said these taxes at the high end, they're going to create jobs. they didn't. we had all of this during the bush years. and think of this, ed. in the second year of the obama administration more jobs were created in the private sector than in the eight years of the bush administration combined. >> the republicans eventually want to get the bush tax cuts permanent. >> yeah. >> is there any way you would ever agree to that? >> no. >> so they will expire and that won't be a part of this deal? >> no. the fact is i was disappointed that they were extended for the -- >> last year. >> -- period that they were. but the fact is is that this is the end of that.

well, of course, we have to elect president barack obama president of the united states, and we have to elect a democratic congress that i feel confident we can. but even just electing the president, he's said this is a centerpiece of his campaign. the tax cuts will not be extended. they don't create jobs. they increase the deficit. it's totally unfair. and again, necessitatesed in order to be fiscally sound, cuts in investment in the dpeeftness of our country and the education of our children. >> but if there's not going to be a revenue component on the extension of the payroll tax holiday and the unemployment benefits are going to be extended and you're confident that they are and there won't be a government shutdown, where's the money going to come from? >> i didn't say there wasn't going to be a revenue component. i said there wasn't going to be a surcharge for the people making over 300,000 -- >> so where would that revenue component come from? >> we'll see now, won't we? that's what's going on in the senate right now, between senator reid and senator mcconnell -- leader reid and

leader mcconnell to see where they can get 60 votes. because as you know, a majority doesn't really count unless you have 60 votes in the senate. >> do you see any scenario being played out where middle-class americans might have to pay a little bit more? >> well, i certainly hope not. but i also think that as we -- what we had hoped the super committee could do was to address the entrepreneurial spirit of america, create jobs, invest in small businesses, education is central to innovation, and all of that. and that everybody would take some responsibility for reducing the deficit. >> leader pelosi, we talk about this chart a lot on "the ed show." the income gap. over the last 30 years in this country we have seen the blue line is wage earners of america, the middle class. the red line of course is where the top 2% has gone over the last 30 years. census shows 1 out of every 2 americans are now poor or in low

incomes. >> that's stunning. >> 77% of americans say that the top 1% and corporations have too much power. what do you tell these americans? i mean, what has to happen to turn that around? if the democrats continue to extend tax cuts and seem to cave in with what the republicans want all the time. how are you going to turn this around? >> i don't subscribe to that characterization of what the democrats -- we are here fighting the fight. that chart that you had has a big gap. it's immoral. and it has gotten greater and greater. and it's happened at the same time as productivity has increased in our country. so you think wages could at least follow productivity to a certain extent. but they haven't. and the statistics that came out today, that the number of people in poverty or low-income, near poverty, is a stunning one. but that's what -- that's the decision that elections are about. the two different paths that we're on. and that gap undermines our

democracy, undermines the middle class, and undermines our democracy. this is a bigger issue than just one's view of economics. it's about how you sustain a middle class, which is the backbone of our democracy. >> okay. house leader nancy pelosi, stay with us. we're going to do some more of this. next up, we're going to be talking about the 2012 election. newt gingrich is still running strong. i'll ask leader pelosi about her thoughts on her old colleague. and later, msnbc political analyst and former governor eliot spitzer will join us. so stay tuned for that. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc. we're right back. ♪ it's nice to see you [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ this is zales, the diamond store. take up to an extra 15 percent off storewide now through sunday. premier of the packed bag. you know organization is key...

and so is having a trusted assistant. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above and still pay the mid-size price. here we are... [ male announcer ] and there you go, business pro. there you go. go national. go like a pro. your new progresso rich & hearty steak burger soup. [ dad ] i love this new soup. it's his two favorite things in one... burgers and soup. did you hear him honey? burgers and soup. love you. they're cute. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

coming up on "the ed show," more with democratic leader nancy pelosi. later, fixing voter registration in america. and we will visit with a professor who is an expert on that. it's all coming up here on "the ed show." stay with us. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the personal attention

tdd# 1-800-345-2550 you and your money deserve. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, that means taking a close look at you tdd# 1-800-345-2550 as well as your portfolio. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 we ask the right questions, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 then we actually listen to the answers tdd# 1-800-345-2550 before giving you practical ideas you can act on. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck online, on the phone, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 or come in and pull up a chair.

welcome back to "the ed show." breaking news at this moment. the associated press reports congressional negotiators are preparing a two-month deal on payroll tax cuts. jobless benefits. we are back with house democratic leader nancy pelosi on "the ed show." how does that news hit you? what do you make of it? >> well, it is -- hopefully, we will still be able to get the full extension of the payroll tax cut for another year, unemployment insurance, and sgr. this is a possibility if that's not possible. but i don't know that the other -- the longer negotiation is over.

what's important to note about this is it keeps the fight going on. that no people will lose -- i would think this is okay as long as no beneficiary of unemployment insurance loses their benefits in that time frame because depending on how you write the bill that's importa important. but it keeps in the public eye this distinction between do you support a payroll tax cut for 160 million americans and are you willing to not do anything about 300,000 families which make, not have, which make a million dollars a year. it's really important for people to understand how protective of the upper income people they are. >> what kind of position does this put you in, leader pelosi? you have now got a two-month window to go back and negotiate and get really what you want. so this is just an extension here. what do you make of that? >> well, what i make of it is what it means to that kitchen

table that many americans are sitting around -- >> does this improve your pro ? position? >> i think so. i think the longer we're talking about a middle class tax cut the better it is for us to be in a position to make the public understand who wants the tax cut and who wants to protect the 300,000 wealthiest people in our country. >> what does this mean? does this mean that the democrats are going to have two more months to go back and sell to the american people that the wealthiest americans have to pay more? would that be your mission? >> well, we want to -- as the president said in his kansas speech, which i thought was a fabulous speech, and i particularly liked the part where he talked about the big role that money plays in elections and that that has to stop. but in that speech he talked about all americans. so i don't like this us against them kind of attitude. but the fact is that if you're saying you can't have a

middle-income tax cut, the republicans have said the high-end tax cuts, tax cuts at the high end should be made permanent and they don't believe in extending tax cuts, the payroll tax cut. >> speaking of the president's speech in kansas, he said this that really caught my attention. "this is a make or break moment for the middle class and all those who are fighting to get into the middle class. at stake is whether we will be a country where working people can earn enough to raise a family, build modest savings, own a home, and secure their retirement." he had more of a fighting spirit. and i know some democrats have told me that in negotiations the liberals want one thing, the democrats and the conservatives want -- the republicans want something and president obama always seems to go to the mid toll cut to the deal right away. and that's frustrated a lot of people. do you see that -- >> i don't see that, no. i will say that first of all we're very fortunate to have

such a brilliant, dedicated, values-based president of the united states. and what i have seen sitting at that table i think all americans would be very proud of. fighting in a values-based way for middle-income families every step of the way. >> do you view that speech as somewhat of a turning point? >> i think it was a very important speech because i love what teddy roosevelt did, the trust buster and the age of the robber barons, come forth, talking about the middle class. and in the speech teddy roosevelt made in 1910, he talked about the corruptive role of money in politics, corporate money in politics. so in the spirit of teddy roosevelt and hearkening back to that speech, i thought it was great. a great speech. and an important message for the american people to make. and an important distinction to make about the two different paths to take our country down. but he said it in a way that was about all americans, unifying all americans. >> i've got to ask you about

newt gingrich. do you find him trustworthy? >> i'm not going to say one word about newt gingrich. i think that his campaign will speak for itself. it's up to the republicans to nominate who they nominate, and it's just interesting to watch. >> do you think that newt gingrich would be a good president? >> no. >> you don't? >> absolutely not. >> is a big play fought middle class going to be one of the major things for the democrats to take back the house? what is the game plan? >> well, this is not about democrats or republicans. this is about our country. as the president said, this is really a very important moment. and it could be -- it's pivotal. but it is also perishable. we have to take advantage of the time that we have now. and nothing makes the distinction clearer than not one red cent from the 300,000 wealthiest families in america and we just don't really feel like doing a tax cut for the middle class, a payroll tax cut. what i've said is they don't

want to do it. and then they did it but they did it in a way that a young woman would say to someone who asked her to marry you, oh, yes, i'll agree to marry you, i can just do it on the 30th of february. that day is never coming. and the day is never coming that the president will be signing a bill that is unfair to the middle class. >> can you take the house back? can the -- >> yes, we can. under the leadership of steve israel, our chairman, we are in a drive for 25. we feel very confident about it. we've outraised the republicans, if you can imagine that, our small donors have saved the day for us. we want to increase their voice in the process. and we've outrecruited. we have great candidates who care about our country. and i will say this because it's part of what you're going to in the rest of your program. it's not just about empowering people in terms of offsetting big money by small contributions. it's about removing obstacles to their participation at the polls, which the republicans are throwing up every step of the

way. so that the power of the few outweighs the power of the many. that's not the american way. >> democratic leader nancy pelosi, thanks for joining us. >> my pleasure. happy holidays. >> you bet. and to you. >> thank you. >> next msnbc political analyst eugene robinson here along with former new york governor eliot spitzer. they will join me for the conversation following this interview. and the party of no is continuing its obstructionist ways. once again, negotiations over a bill to keep the government running are going down to the wire. senator bernie sanders will join me later. stay with us.

♪ sen♪ co-signed her credit card - "buy books, not beer!" ♪ ♪ut the second at she shut the door ♪ ♪ girl started blowing up their credit score ♪ ♪ she bought a pizza party for the whole dorm floor ♪ ♪ hundred pounds of makeup at the makeup store ♪ ♪ and a ticket down to spring break in mexico ♪ ♪ but her folks didn't know 'cause her folks didn't go ♪ ♪ to free-credit-score-dot-com hard times for daddy and mom. ♪ v.o.: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com of course, neither do i. solution? td ameritrade mobile trader. i can enter trades on the run. even futures and 4x. complex options, done. [ cellphone rings ] thank you. live streaming audio. advanced charts. look at that. all right here. wherever "here" happens to be. mobile trading from td ameritrade. number one in online equity trades. plus get up to $600 when you open an account.

welcome back to "the ed show." as we reported to you moments ago, there will be a two-month extension. that's what congressional negotiators are working on. for the payroll tax holiday. and to prevent a government shutdown. joining me tonight for analysis of that interview is msnbc political analyst and "washington post" columnist eugene robinson. and also former governor eliot spitzer of new york. great to have you with us tonight. eugene, where's the money going to come from? i think that's the big question right now. >> we don't know. the answer is we don't know. administration officials have been very cagey and indefinite in terms of their idea of where the money is going to come from. now, granted, we were talking in terms of a longer range extension of unemployment insurance and the payroll tax

holiday now if we're only talking about two months, obviously that's less money that has to be found. but my understanding of the republican negotiating position is that you've got to find the money somewhere. so where does that money come from? >> well, the congress doesn't want to hurt anybody, but they can't make up their mind on exactly how they're going to pay for this. >> exactly. >> so they're at a stalemate. so they are going to be home for the holidays. >> let's go home for the holidays and we'll talk about it later. >> eliot spitzer, looking at this situation right now, i keep hearing from core democrats they don't want to cave in at all. how much of a tightrope is this for the democrats? >> well, look, it is a tightrope. but let's go back to basics for a minute. it's good for the economy to extend the payroll tax cut. it is good politics if this issue continues to be the fulcrum of the debate. good for us as democrats because we clearly win this debate at a political level because as leader pelosi just highlighted it is the middle class versus the extraordinarily wealthy. we don't like to frame politics that way, but that's what this is about.

but let me put an overlay on this. what concerns me, ed and gene, is if this is the entirety of what we're talking about to get our economy moving again, we're not going to make the progress we need to make and so i think while this is good short-term stuff we need a much broader conversation to get our economy back to where it needs to go. >> well, nancy pelosi said any arrangement now to keep the government open will not include revenue. so the democrats have not gotten what they've wanted so far, gene. >> well, they haven't gotten it, ed. now, what we're hearing from administration officials, and there was a briefing today with a couple of senior officials, they say we're going to continue this fight. we want to make sure that nobody gets hurt right now and the economy doesn't get hurt right now. we want to make sure that unemployment insurance is extended, the payroll tax holiday is extended. we know that republicans have dug in their heels on the kinds of stimulative measures and the kinds of investment that need to

take place for this economy to get going. but we're going to continue that fight. and if necessary we'll continue with it into next year. >> eliot, is this a win for the democrats tonight? >> i don't think we know yet. i think this is really a stalemate. this is just a continuation of the sort of gridlock the public is tired of. i think the question is can the president build on what i thought was a spectacular speech a couple weeks ago out in kansas, sort of embracing the mantle of teddy roosevelt, and make that the framework of his argument next year? if he does so, he will win. we can take back the house. if he lapses back into the sort of trading that he had sort of dominated the first two years of his presidency, then i think the public will lose enthusiasm. so i think we don't know yet if it's a win. i still believe the economy will dictate the outcome. and i don't see enough stimulus here to get us moving forward at a pace that makes me comfortable. >> and in the midst of all of that leader pelosi is convinced that the democrats can take the house back, and she also mentioned where the money was

coming from. they are counting on the lower end donors, the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker to pull them through this thing. >> well, that's what they're counting on. eliot is absolutely right, that continuing this discussion does seem to me to be pretty good politically for the democrats. it is not inconceivable that republicans will get enough heat as we roll into the election year and as they hear from their constituents, if they'll start getting enough heat that maybe they're willing to move a bit. now, i'm not guaranteeing that. they've been so steadfast in drawing their line and they've been really unified. but we'll have to see what they hear from their constituents over the holidays. >> what is the best play for the white house right now, governor? >> i think the white house wins out of this. two months from now the president once again will be able to frame the debate as he the president, standing up for the 34id'll class, extending aw

tax cut to the middle clark, needing to drag the republican party to that as leader pelosi said while the republican party defends tax cuts and wants to make permanent tax cuts for the rich. that's why i'm surprised, kind of to pick up on what gene said, that the republicans didn't want to get rid of this issue for the entirety of next year, push it all off until after the '12 elections. and between now and then debate everything else under the sun but not the middle-class tax cut. >> well, we are told tonight that the extension of the bush tax cuts is off the table. she says this is the end. well, i certainly hope so. so that means that more money will be coming into the treasury. gene robinson, eliot spitzer, great to have both of you gentlemen with us tonight. thank you. as republicans try to block the vote, the attorney general is calling for improvements to the nation's voter registration system. will it work? that's next. and herman cain says he wants to be secretary of defense. the pizza man is out of the 2012 race, but he still knows how to hold the steaming box of psychotalk.

stay with us p ♪

i wish my patients could see what i see. ♪ that over time, having high cholesterol plus diabetes... or high blood pressure... or family history of early heart disease... can put them at increased risk for plaque buildup. and they'd see that it's more important to get their cholesterol where their doctor wants. and why for these patients, when diet and exercise alone aren't enough, i prescribe crestor. adding crestor lowers bad cholesterol by up to 52%. and is also proven to slow plaque buildup. [ female announcer ] crestor is not right for everyone. like people with liver disease... or women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. simple blood tests will check for liver problems. tell your doctor about other medicines you're taking. or if you have muscle pain or weakness. that could be a sign of a rare but serious side effect. is your cholesterol where your doctor wants? ask your doctor if crestor is right for you. [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astra zeneca may be able to help.

welcome back to "the ed show." it's one of the most important stories in america. and i'm committed to keep following it. voting rights. republicans know 2012 is going to be a tough election. and they are trying their best to block the vote. fortunately, the justice department is reviewing voter laws in several states. attorney general eric holder addressed the issue at a speech in austin, texas earlier this week. holder says the voter registration system is out of date and it is leaving millions of americans behind. of the 75 million adult citizens who did not vote in the last presidential election, 60 million were not even registered. >> today the single biggest barrier to voting in this country is our antiquated registration system.

all eligible citizens can and should be automatically registered to vote. it should be the government's responsibility. the government's responsibility to automatically register citizens to vote by compiling from data bases that already exist a list of all eligible residents in each jurisdiction. >> let's turn to caroline heldman. these a professor of politics at occidental college. professor, great to have you on the program tonight. i appreciate your time. what kind of impact would a universal voter registration system have on democracy in this country? >> well, ed, i think it would have a profound impact. what we know now is people who tend to not turn out to vote are people of color at higher rarkts poorer people, and less educated people. so if we were to make the registration national and perhaps even voting compulsory, which i would endorse, then woe see dramatic shifts in who we represent-o who we elect to represent us as leaders. >> i mean, could something like

this be achieved given the political climate that we have in washington? >> no. i think right now what we see is this widespread koch brother-funded american legislative campaign to suppress the vote. a state by state plan to make sure that people who don't have licenses, who happen to be disproportionately people of color, blacks and latinos, poor people, students and the elderly, we see that sort of movement, and we see folks on the left are just now starting to wake up and realize alec has been around for decades, the koch industries have been on the alec board that designed the model legislation that is being used throughout the country. they contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars. so we're just starting to wake up that there's this corporate assault on democracy. i don't think the environment right now is ready for this. >> well, i think what they've tried to do over on the right is threefold. they're trying to bust up the unions because they really are the foundation of a lot of elections across this country in

helping democrats and progressives get elected. then of course go after the trial lawyers. then these radical governors across america have come up with an unbelievable agenda to suppress the vote. what kind of evidence have you seen out there that shows these new laws are doing just that, suppressing the vote? >> well, i would say the best evidence is according to the brennan center for justice at nyu this could potentially suppress 5 million votes in the upcoming election. but there's additional evidence as well. these types of laws tend to be coupled with restrictions on same-day voting and restrictions on early registration, which are clear voter suppression techniques, if you will. and then we have folks actually coming out and saying it. so for example, the republican leader of the house in new hampshire, where thankfully such laws failed earlier this year, he actually came out and said, yeah, i don't want students voting because they, quote, vote with their heart, these liberal voters. so i think if you look at the funding sources and you look at the rhetoric being used it's

very clear that this is a coordinated, well-funded national campaign that we're just now starting to see come to fruition. >> is there research out there that for someone to have to get an i.d., that that definitely says they make a decision i'm not going to vote this year, i've got to go through this hassle to do this, it's a disincentive? how evidence -- how much evidence is there out there that that works? >> that's a great question, ed. the brennan center report, according to a national survey in 2006, that 11% of the american public doesn't have government-issued i.d. and for 7% they actually don't have access to such documents. so i'm thinking, you know, when i went to graduate school and i moved from the west coast to the east coast i had to wait to get my license because i'd lost my birth certificate. so it's not only an issue of time. in many states it requires 70, 100 bucks to get that, and then you have to get a license anywhere from $3 to $30. so it's onerous for those who don't already have it. and it's just an unnecessary --

unnecessary block. i mean, we're not required to have i.d.s in the united states. but we should be able to -- everybody has the right to vote who's a citizen. >> well, i mean, there's no doubt that they're going after the poor, they're going after the elderly. of course, they tend to vote democratic. and of course the students. it's a disincentive across the board there. but i tell you what. do you -- do you really think this will have a major impact in 2012, and is there going to have to be a real concerted effort to turn this around? >> i do think there needs to be a concerted effort to turn it around because i do think it will have an impact. the actual impact won't be known. but this is part of a larger karl rove strategy. and i'm not saying that he's directly involved in this. but about continue years ago he said hey, folks, what you need to do on the right is chip away at these key electoral college states. so when you look at where these efforts are concentrated, ohio, pennsylvania, florida, so it could actually determine the outcome of the presidential election.

and at this point it may be too late to kind of roll back the clock. eric holder coming out, he's speaking very late about this. so i'm a bit pessimistic, but perhaps in time for the next presidential election we will put a stop to this corporate assault on democracy. >> my friend attorney mike papantonio says the damage is done. he thinks that this justice department has acted way too late. do you say do you share that -- do you share that opinion? >> i do. the nrkts came out in 2008 saying this is coordinated. it's a lie about voter fraud. you have the same odds of getting struck by lightning than going to the polls and engauging in voter fraud. it's presented under false pretenses. we've known that for years. and finally this administration is speaking out in really watered down terms, ed? >> you know, the only thing the democrats are going to be able to do is just have an unbelievable, massive effort of get out the vote. i don't know how else you do it. you're going to have to get a

lot of volunteers to push back on this. professor heldman, great to have you with us tonight. i appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> thanks for your research on this. the cain train was famous for running off the tracks anytime foreign policy came up as the subject. but herman, well, you see, he's been studying up, and he thinks he's ready to take on the world by storm now. "psychotalk" is next. stay with us. ♪ ♪ mom? dad? guys? [ engine turns over ] [ engine revs ] ♪ he'll be fine. [ male announcer ] more people are leaving bmw, mercedes, and lexus for audi than ever before. take advantage of exceptional values during the season of audi event.

♪ it's nice to see you ♪ in my bed ♪ ♪ there are diamonds in her eyes ♪ ♪ ♪ and they sparkle in the night ♪ ♪ when the moment comes alive [ male announcer ] this is your moment. this is zales, the diamond store. take up to an extra 15 percent off storewide now through sunday.

are choosing advil. i'm keith baraka and i'm a firefighter. and it's very physically demanding. if i'm sore i'm not at my best. advil is my go-to. it's my number one pain reliever. [ male announcer ] make the switch. take action. take advil. but is she eating sugar this week? maybe she wants the all natural, zero calorie stuff. but if you're wrong, you're insinuating she's fat. save yourself. it's only natural.

in "psychotalk" tonight, one of barbara walters' most fascinating people of the year, herman cain. the pizza man was a one-trick pony during his campaign. 9-9-9 was all he had. herman cain's knowledge of anything going on outside america's borders was famously non-existent. so when walters asked him what

cabinet position he would want, his response, very surprising. >> department of defense. >> what? >> yes. >> not treasury? i mean, you're the 9-9-9 man. >> i'm the 9-9-9 guy. >> why department of defense? >> because if i could influence rebuilding our military the way it should be, that would be a task i would consider undertaking. >> if you were secretary of defense, it would be important to be familiar with the various countries around the world. and you've had some difficulty with that, mr. cain. >> yes. but i have been doing my homework ever since that difficulty. >> don't you feel safer now? herman cain took a crash course. he's ready to go now. the guy's an embarrassment to pizza delivery guys. he insults their intelligence. during his campaign ignorance about foreign countries was a point of pride for herman cain. >> when they asked me who's the president of

ubekibekibekibekistanstan i'm going to say i don't know. >> his excuse for not knowing about other countries was he would have advisers to help him out. but now he thinks he's qualified to be one of those advisers. i'll let you decide if herman cain is qualified. here is his reasoning for not bombing iran. >> if you look at the topography of iran, where are you going to strike? it's very mountainous. that's what makes it very difficult. >> for a guy who doesn't think our military can handle mountains to say that he wants to lead the defense department is defendantless "psychotalk." the citizens united supreme court decision opened the door to unlimited secret campaign donations. independent senator bernie sanders is trying to close that gap big-time. he joins me next. stay with us. ♪

[ male announcer ] you never know when a moment might turn into something more. and when it does men with erectile dysfunction can be more confident in their ability to be ready with cialis for daily use. cialis for daily use is a clinically proven low-dose tablet you take every day, so you can be ready anytime the moment's right. ♪ [ man ] tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. don't take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. [ man ] do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis.

side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, stop taking cialis and call your doctor right away. [ male announcer ] ask your doctor if cialis for daily use is right for you. for a 30-tablet free trial offer, go to cialis.com.

breaking news. the associated press reports congressional negotiators are preparing a two-month deal on the payroll tax cut jobless benefits. senator bernie sanders joins me next to react. stay with us. pantene nature fusion shampoo. its pro-v formula makes weak, brittle hair up to 10x stronger. ♪ healthier hair. [ female announcer ] nature fusion from pantene. hair so healthy it shines. ♪

that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm [ male announcer ] for half the calories -- plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. congress should not and cannot go on vacation before they have made sure that working

families aren't seeing their taxes go up by 1,000 sxds those w who are out there looking for work don't see their unemployment insurance expire. there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to extend these items, the payroll tax cut, u.i., before the holidays. there's no reason the government should shut down over this. >> there is reportedly a deal tonight to avoid a government shutdown. the report tonight from nbc's kelly o'donnell. senior aides say they expect the megabus appropriations bill to be signed tonight, which clears the way for votes in the house and senate likely tomorrow. this would avert a government shutdown. payroll tax cut, unemployment benefits extensions, and the so-called doc fix, which prevents cuts in medicare payments to doctors, could be resolved with a two-month extension, not a full year. this would allow the measure to be paid for with mutually agreed upon savings, meaning no millionaire surtax and allow more time to work out a broader

deal. this prevents any disruption in savings or benefits in the short run. joining me now is senator bernie sanders of vermont. senator, great to have you with us tonight as that news is breaking. how did it hit your ears? >> well, obviously, nobody wants to see the government shut down. but on the other hand, if there's going to be an extension of the payroll tax, the interesting question is how's it going to be paid for, that holiday? and i think what the american people have been very clear about, ed, is the middle class is in decline, the wealthiest people are doing phenomenally woll. their effective tax rate is the lowest in decades. republicans, democrats, independents are saying the wealthiest people have to start paying their fair share of taxes. that apparently is not happening. that's not a good thing. >> this kicks the can down the road two months. >> it does. >> and it continues the conversation about a revenue component, something that the republicans have been very dogmatic about, that they're not going to give up. where do you think this is headed? >> well, the republicans have

been very, very firm, and what they have said is look, we republicans believe it is our moral obligation to protect the wealthiest people in this country, to protect the largest corporations, some of whom pay virtually nothing in taxes, and we're not going to bend on the issue. and i think the democrats have got to be aggressive in taking the case to the american people and say enough is enough. it is the middle class. it's the working class that needs tax breaks. not the wealthiest people in this country. and at some point you're going to have to draw a line in the sand, let the american people make that decision. >> well, that line, senator, was not drawn in this deal because the democrats have given up on the surcharge for the millionaires. that means .2% of americans that would have been affected by this aren't going to have to pay anything. and the democrats caved in on this. that was the question i asked earlier tonight. is this a cave? >> i would say it is a cave. again, and as you and i have discussed, every poll that we have seen, democrats, republicans, independents say hey, it is time for the wealthiest people in this

country to start paying their fair share of taxes. that still has not happened. not one nickel in revenue for millionaires and billionaires. >> all right. you have been very strong on this. citizens united. it's going to have a major impact in 2012. is that an understatement? >> no, that is not an understatement. >> okay. and you have an amendment out there -- >> constitutional amendment. >> what kind of support are you going to get for this? first of all, what would it do and what kind of support do you think you're going to get? >> what it says, this is a constitutional amendment in response to the horrendous supreme court 5-4 citizens united decision. this amendment, which is so radical -- you know what it says, ed? it says that a corporation is not a person. now, i know that's just a very radical statement. that bank of america and goldman sachs and exxonmobil are not folks like you and me. they do not have first amendment constitutional rights to pour unlimited sums of money into campaigns all over this country without disclosure. and you know what? the overtiming majority of the

american people think what the supreme court did is crazy. we're getting a lot of grassroots support for the amendme amendment. we have a petition on my website, sanders.senate.gov. i think we have over 80,000 signatures already. >> everywhere i go people are talking about this because they know how damaging citizens united is going to be. this would be uniform for the democrats. wouldn't it be a slam dunk for you to have -- >> absolutely. >> -- absolutely every democrat on board with this? >> it should be. >> and it should be a campaign issue for 2012. >> look, here are two realities of citizens united. number one, you're going to have the koch brothers. you're going to have karl rove and his friends sitting around the room with large corporate leaders deciding how to spend hundreds of millions of dollars. 50 million in california, 30 million in ohio. nobody i know thinks that that's what democracy is about. second thing is does, ed, is when a senator or member of the house casts a vote, if we're prepared to take on wall street, if you're prepared to take on the military-industry complex,

do you not think that members are going to be sitting there thinking if i cast that vote against wall street or the drug companies am i going to go home next weekend and find millions of dollars in tv ads running against me? maybe i'd better not cast that vote. >> now, the president referenced this in his speech in kansas, about the big money in politics. in the last state of the union address he also in a sense called out the supreme court for what he thought was a very bad decision. >> that's right. >> so he's made, you know, his point. how much further do you think he has to take it? because right now he's mended a lot of fences with democrats across the country. >> i think he's got to be very aggressive on this. the name of my constitutional amendment is called "saving america democracy." and that is not an exaggeration. if billionaires and corporate heads can go into their own corporate treasuries, go into the money in bank of america, put money into campaigns, how

much power is the average middle-class person going to have in the political process? i think the president has to be very aggressive. i would hope he understands the constitutional amendment. >> i want to go back to our breaking news for just a moment because there really is something that has developed here in the last year. three government shutdowns. three times this has been a big story. and now it's going to come up again for the fourth time. is this the way washington is going to be run, and is this the way republicans hold democrats hostage? >> it's exactly what republicans do. they take you to the very, very edge. we had the debt ceiling crisis. for the first time in the history of the united states the government was going to default on its payments. a disaster. republicans say we are prepared to do it unless you guys start surrendering on important issues. >> and a campaign for the republicans in 2012, senator, they're going to go back to extending the bush tax cuts. earlier tonight leader pelosi told us that this is the end. do you think the democrats can say that with conviction? that this is the end when it comes to extending -- that the

bush tax cuts will finally be gone and we would restore the old rates during the clinton years? >> what can i tell you? certainly so. the idea that we continue with a $15 trillion national debt to give huge tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires is incomprehensible. so i would hope that the president and the democrats remain strong on this issue. >> it's a campaign winner. >> absolutely. >> and the democrats, you have got -- you're an independent, but you caucus with the democrats. they have all the polling with them when it comes to getting more money out of the wealthy, when it comes to the income divide, when it comes to all of these issues, and there just can't be a cave-in. i mean, that's what i continually -- >> i will do my best. >> i know you do. >> to try to make sure that doesn't happen again. >> senator, good to have you with us tonight. thanks so much. bernie sanders from vermont. that's "the ed show." i'm ed schultz. you can listen to me on sirius xm radio channel 127 monday through friday noon to 3:00 p.m. and follow me on twitter @edshow and also