columnist for "the nation." writer and radio host of studio 360, kurt anderson. and "washington post" columnist and msnbc contributor, jonathan capehart. thank you guys for joining me. house republicans are going at it alone and bucking repeated calls from their colleagues in the senate. minority leader mitch mcconnell has even broken his silence, urging speaker boehner to pass the short-term payroll tax cut deal. meanwhile, eric cantor is trying to draw the president into the fray. let's listen. >> i saw the president out yesterday, doing his christmas shopping. saw he brought his dog with him. you know, we're here. he can bring his dog up here. we are pet friendly. >> pet friendly up there. eric cantor clearly trying to draw the white house into this battle. is it going to work? >> it's not going to work. the president has been at this since the fall when he tried to get them to do a one-year extension. the president, with the -- he said, okay, fine, if you don't want to do that, and we'll give you all these concessions, we'll

do the two-month deal. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell got -- was able to bring a majority of the republicans in the senate. when was the last time you saw an 89-10 vote out of the senate? and yet the house rejects it and now eric cantor wants the president to -- stop christmas shopping, bring the dog and let's get to work. sorry, but the president's like, y'all are in this mess. >> we also know that speaker boehner spoke with the president this morning, asking for members of his economic team to come to the white house to get involved. the best part of that missive is that the president declined speaker boehner's request. do we think that there's any chance that obama somehow bears some -- that his image is, in turn, tarnished if they somehow don't get a payroll tax cut bill passed? >> well, look, the president is the president. and in the end, the economic questions will always end at the president's front door. so it's not so much that americans will blame president obama for not getting the

payroll tax cut holiday extended to a longer holiday, but the fact is that he's facing re-election and the question will always be, am i better off today than i was previously? but he is, in this moment, in perhaps the best sort of political place that he's been in a really long time. it's the first time that in their kind of creation of a manufactured crisis, they're going against their own fundamental principle of no increase in taxes. >> right. >> and you know, this is the great george h.w. bush argument. like, if they can be labeled as the folks who raised your taxes, that's bad for them. >> i've never seen a better example of being hoisted on your own petard as the republicans are being hoisted. it's as though they lost track in their frenzy to have partisan -- incremental partisan advantage. the idea of, oh, yes, we're against taxes. we forgot that, and now it's too late. >> but the problem, though, is that, you know, the economy is

going to weaken if this isn't passed. and so the long game here from the republicans, if they're totally incompetent in the short-term political game, the long-term game is they want to make the president look bad economically. and they have never wanted to do that. so we're looking at a $1,000 increase in taxes for the average income. we're looking at perhaps 400,000 jobs lost, half a percentage point of gdp next year. that has real impact. >> and ezra klein, the indubitable ezra klein in "the washington post" today says, this is actually helping mitt romney, more than anyone else, because at the end of the day, to your point, melissa, this ends up at obama's front doorstep if it fails, and then mitt romney then becomes a viable alternative. >> it could help if he had had a reasonable response to it. so given that he is not, in fact, in the middle of the fray, when asked about it, he might have said, well, of course, there should be an extension of this. and not only that, but all taxes

lower and that sort of thing. but instead, he sort of sided with the house republicans, in a way that i think ends up not working as well -- >> well, it helps mitt romney if we still presume him to be -- >> oh, right. >> -- it hurts obama. >> oh, yeah, well, we sort of missed that whole primary process. >> and it's interesting to note how those republican contenders are responding to all of this. let's listen to gingrich has tackled the issue of the payroll tax battle. >> i think, candidly, that it is disgraceful that the senate would pass a two-month extension and leave town, having failed to do the job. >> well, we're not talking about the sausage making process in congress. as you know, i happen to support the idea of extending the payroll tax holiday. >> i think this is a really interesting thing. gingrich's battle, the shutdown. the debacle that's happening right now is a reminder to the american public, oh, yeah, newt

gingrich, you associate him with these times in congress. mitt romney, i think, gets a little lift, because the guy may be a flip-flopper, but ultimately has a very conciliatory nature and maybe is the guy that could get us through this. what do you think? >> a deep -- >> i'm not buying it. >> the republican primary voters don't seem to be gravitating towards this idea of conciliation and pragmatism as a quality they wish if their nominee. >> no, they're not. i think this whole situation puts the republican candidates in a big bind. i think -- i have to disagree with my colleague, ezra klein, who's actually way smarter than i am on this. but i think that the president has conceded with the republicans, given them things that they've wanted for the last three years, to the point where i think he has enough political capital where he can stand his ground and say, look, you guys don't want to do what the american people sent you to do. and if people's taxes go up in

january, it's your fault. ultimately, i think the american people will look at him and blame him, but i think in the short-term, people will know who's fault this is. >> right. the thing is, president obama, typically, has good holiday seasons. if we can remember -- >> last year? >> 2010, that was incredible, passing the don't ask, don't tell finally. >> the new star. >> all of this sense of he kind of finds his progressive legs right around thanksgiving and goes into the new year. the fact is that the real political battles over the course of the next three months will be republican battles. they will be the fights around the primaries. the president is going to be largely outside of it, simply targeted by it. and in so many ways, this will all be forgotten by the time we get to summer. and the primary voter in the republican party doesn't like unemployment insurance. >> well, that's been conspicuously missing -- >> -- the employed ones. right. but they want payroll taxes to go up, because they have a miehm that the poor don't pay enough

taxes. that the federal income tax is distributed unfairly. so i think this tips -- you know, this is one of the problems that romney has, which is, that he's trying to persuade these voters that he's ultra-right, while then trying to preserve some political capital for the election. the main election. and it's not working. >> when we talk about obama, this is something that sort of comes up from time to time, is he doesn't have a lot of deputies in terms of spreading the message, especially in congress. and i think one of the reasons this fight is different is because he has people like chris van hollen and steny hoyer who are out there, furthereri erini message. i think that's been really important. i want to play some sound from chris van hollen from this morning, sort of in response to eric cantor. >> the bipartisan bill, it's not at the white house. the president's not sitting on the bipartisan bill. the bipartisan senate bill is right here in the united states congress. and the speaker of the house and the republican majority have the

power to bring that bill up. >> there you have it. you know, this contention that obama and bo should be going to congress to work this out, and are effectively getting begged to come and send their economic deputies. and then you actually have the folks in congress, like steny hoyer, like chris van hollen, steny hoyer literally trying to pull the senate vote up on the floor as the republicans are pulling the the flag down and turning the mics off. optically, it works very well for the president's message and for the white house in terms of drawing a line in the sand of who actually wants to get this done and who's being obstructionist. >> the other thing this shows is just the incredible problem that speaker boehner has with his conference. again, nothing comes out of the senate at 89-10. remember, mitch mcconnell, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell had boehner's proxy -- i mean, he could not get all those senators to vote for this if there was not an understanding that once this passed and went to the house, that the house would take care of it and then they could all

move on. imagine, mcconnell just came out today with a statement, after days of silence. i think we're seeing the beginning, not the end of an intense battle within the republican party, in the house, but also between the house and the senate. >> and when you have boehner being fraged, essentially by his ostensible followers in the house, that is just a washington reinforcing story of what's naturally going on in a primary campaign, in iowa and elsewhere. so it's this intermural republican battle, sort of, doubled or tripled. >> and what is -- >> there are lives at stake here. there are people's economic livelihoods. >> and we will actually be talking specifically about the human side of this battle coming up next. we will keep this robust discussion going with our panel and talk about the optics of the payroll battle, also bring in luke russert, the sage of capitol hill. that's next on "now." we're kind of a quiet couple.

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"the new york times" quotes a 50-year-old man in oklahoma who was laid off in march is working a part-time job for just over minimum wage and fears he'll stop receiving an unemployment check in january. "i don't know who to blame," he said, "house, senate, republicans, democrats. they are toying with people's lives." meanwhile, this is what republican senator orrin hatch had to say about reducing unemployment benefits. "i don't see why you have to go more than 59 weeks. in fact, we need some incentives for people to get back to work. a lot of these people don't want to work unless they get really high-paying jobs, and they're not going to get them ever. so they just stay home and watch television." the other half of this payroll

tax cut debate is the extension of unemployment benefits. and it's something that makes republicans very uncomfortable. and in the house bill, the republicans had tried to trim back the number of weeks you could be on unemployment insurance. i wonder to what degree you guys think that that kind of messaging, that kind of talk, and i would dare say insensitivity towards the job market and then the unemployed, ends up hurting republicans in the long run for 2012? >> i think it depends in part on what happens to this category called "the tunemployed" in our collective imaginations. if you look at the discourse around the unemployed and the discourse around a lot of the occupy movements, much of it sounds in the last 20 years the way both the left and the right have talked about the african-american community. the truth is, 10% unemployment has been standard in black communities and urban communities for decades. this idea of get up off the couch, go get jobs, even if those jobs don't exist, you're just being lazy --

>> you're staying at home and watching a television you have no right to even own. that has been very powerfully, politically. but that's because that group was very easily marginalized and very easily seen as the other. if the unemployed, and particularly the chronically unemployed, can be labeled in that same way. if they can be thought of as the kind of black folks or city folks that we don't have to think of as us. then, yes, i think that strategy works. but if it's everybody. if we are the unemployed, if we are the 99% -- >> if we are the 11%, as it were. >> exactly. >> to that very good point, my hunch that americans know unemployed people, know people who haven't been able to get a job for a year. so the idea that oh, it's this other lazy person off there is not politically salable an idea as it might have been in the past. and with orrin hatch, really, you use christmas week to say, oh, those people are lazy. get to work, mr. hatch, who

probably doesn't know an unemployed person. >> it's shocking to me that that kind of rhetoric is coming out, even now. i want to bring in luke russert, who covers capitol hill for nbc news. luke, thank you for joining us, as always. >> reporter: sure. >> we have many questions for you. >> reporter: okay. >> but i guess one of the first ones is , can you update to the situation regarding the payroll tax cut and the extension of the unemployment insurance? >> reporter: the story has developed quite a lot in the last hour, alex. and the reason why is senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell, essentially released a statement saying, look, john boehner and the house republicans should pass a two-month temporary extension, and after that, harry reid, the senate majority leader, should motion to go to conference, especially appoint conferrees to work out the difference between the house and senate bills. what's ironic is this has been the position harry reid has had from the beginning of this debate saying, look, we understand that a two-month fix doesn't work. we want to do a year-long

extension. there's not enough time to sort of mesh the differences together and come out with a cohesive way forward in the amount of time we have. let's do this, let's do a two-month temporary fix and try to meet for the whole year. it's hard to see now, alex, how the house gop continues to fight this and continues to sort of take a stand after mitch mcconnell, "the wall street journal," karl rove, bob corker of tennessee, john mccain have all essentially said, look, this is a flawed strategy, it's not working. the president is winning the day now, in terms of the messaging and the optics. why are you continuing to do this? this might be the nail in the coffin for the house gop strategy for mcconnell to have come out and essentially back up harry reid. >> it seems like it's not insurrection because mcconnell has the upper hand, but it really marks a cleave in the party. boehner's really in the hot seat. mcconnell is basically saying, wrap it up, dude, the time's running out of the clock.

>> reporter: it's tough to see a path forward. and mcconnell gave boehner a heads up, it was nicely done that it came directly after the press conference we had with speaker boehner, it would have been a really nice question to be able to ask him about, but that is the way washington operates. but nevertheless, how do you chart a way forward? how do you say to the american people, no, our way is correct, when our leadership in the senate is essentially saying that this is all for not. not to mention every strategist. i mean, karl rove won two elections for george w. bush, an amazing feat of political brilliance. he's agreeing with the "wall street journal" that what they're doing is killing their chances of winning in 2012. if you're a republican and your main desire is to beat president obama and to beat the democrats. that's what you want to do. mitch mcconnell said that from -- last year, he said, i want to do everything i can to make sure president obama is not re-elected. why are you going to continue this fight where you're losing the optics, you're losing the messaging, and now you're just confusing people on top of all

of that. >> luke, it's jonathan. >> reporter: hey, jonathan. >> how damaged is the relationship between senate minority leader mitch mcconnell and speaker john boehner over this whole mess? because as i've been saying until i'm blue in the face, and as you know, that's a long time, that for mcconnell to get in the senate to put out an 89-10 piece of legislation, there had to have been some understanding between boehner and mcconnell that once that bill went over to the house, that the house would pass it. >> reporter: that's what we've been saying here on capitol hill, jonathan, or at least aides have from both sides, is that mitch mcconnell would not have done this from john boehner had he not got some assurance from john boehner that he would have been okay on this. and all the reports from the conference call that occurred last week, when john boehner brought this plan to the house republican conference and said, look, we got the keystone pipeline, this is a good deal for us, and there is insurrection against him, i don't think john boehner really blames mitch mcconnell for everything. they have been unified all year.

they've had a very strong sort of way of negotiating. i mean, john boehner himself said we got 90% of what we wanted in debt limit negotiations. but mitch mcconnell got that vote, he got that vote through in a bipartisan way, and essentially he is not -- he's hung boehner out to dry in the sense that he's not been on tv, he's not been up there saying, look, the house gop -- >> to answer my question whether mcconnell feels burned by boehner as a result of all of this. >> reporter: i think to some degree. the senate gop is in a very precarious situation here. because they are now on the record as having supported something that the house republicans are decrying and saying is a terrible piece of legislation. and that type of insubordination from the house gop is directly hurting a lot of established republican senators. look at the guys who voted for this. marco rubio supported it. scott brown, dean heller, rich

lugo, who are all in tough re-election fights. so to have that argument against them is not an easy thing to deal with in this day and age. >> now would be an opportune time for me to make a joke about john boehner crying, but i'm not going to do it. luke, thank you for joining us, as always when we come back, is the political uncertainty creating national uncertainty this holiday weekend? that is coming up next on "now." time for the "your business" entrepreneur of the week. former rockette amy burnett opened the next step broadway dance studio in jersey city with children's dance classes and expansion in mind. she monetized by renting space, added adult classes, a performance summer camp, and partnering witha another group on performances of "the nutcrack nutcracker." for more, watch "your business," sunday mornings at 7:30 on msnbc. [ male announcer ] tom's discovering that living healthy can be fun. see? he's taking his vitamins.

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welcome back. it's time for "what now?" a pro-romney super pac is giving newt and voters christmas gifts, but is it good for the romney campaign? we know that newt gingrich has been voicing his distaste for the romney super pac ads that are currently attacking him on the iowa airwaves. the romney super pac says it will suspend those ads over the christmas holiday. what do you guys make of this?

is this a generous move or is this a strategic move to not flood the airwaves with negative rhetoric? >> i think it's a strategic move. i mean, the folks in iowa don't want to be bombarded with negative messages over the christmas holidays. remember, the iowa caucuses are january 3rd. so they're all coming into the home stretch. and they're trying to use every, i think, advantage that they possibly can to get people to caucus for them. whether it works, we'll find out on january 3rd. but i don't think this is a bad move on romney's part. >> and newt is plummeting in the polls. >> yeah. >> so the negative ads have already done their work. everybody's remembered who newt gingrich is. >> and worth mentioning that newt and callista the did cut a christmas ad, not perhaps in response, but something else to put in the iowa sort of electorate hat. i think we have some visuals of that, of that ad. it's moving. it's definitely not an attack ad. it's something special. >> even in trench warfare, even in trench warfare, there was a break at the holidays.

so i don't think it signals anything about what's going to happen, but i certainly think if anything, it is the sense that they have already done their work and the idea of continuing to kick this guy. and, of course, ads are expensive, and this is a time when people are not necessarily paying attention to politics. you get about a five-day reprieve. don't spend your money on it. it's clearly strategic. >> and we'll see how far the generosity lasts after christmas weekend. >> that's right. new year. >> there's always time between the 1st and the 3rd. we'll be back with more. when we come back, will political uncertainty give americans a blue christmas this year? that's next. [ female announcer ] where will you be when you have to change your pad? now with stayfree you don't have to worry. inspired by athletic wear, only stayfree has thermocontrol to wick away moisture. so you're dry and comfortable up to 8 hours. stayfree.

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average, next year. meanwhile, businesses are sitting over $1 trillion of cash, but are still weary. but by the numbers, the economy would appear to be approving. consumer confidence is up by almost 12 points since august. gallup says holiday spending is up about $70 per person from last year. and most importantly, housing starts were up dramatically in november. jes jesse, i want to talk to you specifically about this, while you slowly shake your head, like, don't ask me about this. >> no, no, just don't believe pinpoint. >> and tell us why we shouldn't believe those numbers? >> the economy's going to be very weak next year. there are going to be massive foreclosures that were forestalled this year as banks stopped -- >> and on that note, foreclosures were up 21% in the third quarter. >> right. and it's going to surge next year. so that's going to be one big dampening effect on the economy. the other thing is that retail sales are actually disappointing. they were disappointing in november after the sort of mini-hype of black friday looking good. people are not spending.

companies are not hiring. unemployment is going to remain high. so we've got a bleak, troubled economy that is going to limp into the new year, in this kind of false blip of recovery is going to dissipate. and it's going to be bad for obama, among others. >> what's interesting, we do talk. and i'm sure you're precisely right about all those things, that it's a false blip, but why does the stock market regard these blips as sufficiently real to go head above 12,000 again, way above 12,000. >> well, you can't trust the stock market for anything. and it's so hyperactive. but the stock market, i think, has largely been reacting to europe and some perceived reaction that europe was going to fall into the sea a few months ago. and then this recovery. >> and yet, that still remains very much -- we still don't know exactly what will happen with the eurozone -- >> no, europe is obviously very troubled. although this ecb action,

european central bank actions from yesterday, pouring hundreds of billions of euros into the banks, hoping that they'll buy european sovereign bonds, is helpful. and that does alleviate this liquidity crisis. we have two problems in europe, a liquidity crisis and a solvency crisis. it won't relieve the solvency crisis, but it relieves the panic and refusal to lend. >> i think this is one of the greatest challenges that will face all of the candidates in 2012, is precisely that we are in a global economy. what's happening in the american economic system is not solely the result of choices made by leaders elected in this system. and yet, the kind of -- when we talk about international politics, it's like waltzing before a blind audience. you can be doing really brilliant analysis of how, in fact, these global economic systems are impacting our economy, but people just don't quite get it. that, you know, we still have a kind of american exceptionalism

ideal. and it is tough to sell that on the one hand, you have democrats and republicans running, but it may have more to do with the choices of the german chancellor than with the choice of mitch mcconnell. >> and rowdy athenians had as hutch to do with obama's re-election prospects as do the american economy. my favorite quote from late from the razed herman cain was he was being asked about the eurozone meltdown and italy specifically. and he said, it's like italy's the passenger in the seat. i say we put our own oxygen mask on first before we deal with that guy. it's like, hello, herman cain, italy's actually in the cockpit, flying the plane. and i think, just to your point, melissa, this notion that we are, it is a global fabric that is fraying. and that america is implicated -- that europe, and what happens there, is as much a bellwether for what will happen. >> in this case, even though what the ecb does and sovereign

debt is beyond the interest or ken of most american voters, the overall narrative of countries and individuals living beyond their means for many years is not dissimilar to the narrative in the united states. >> and that political intraction has really exacerbated the crisis. >> can i just point something out? in an earlier segment, you had that really insensitive, horrible quote from senator orrin hatch, how people are just sitting around, watching television, they don't really want to work and why should they get unemployment benefits? and in the intro to this segment, you talked about what moody's is saying, how campaigns are sitting on top of cash and they're wary of hiring. this is part of the disconnect that's happening in washington. it's not that people are lazy and don't want to work, it's that companies aren't creating jobs for them to go to work too. >> and i also think the extradification of the pain is important too. >> and i just happened to watch earlier this year "it's a wonderful life."

i think when people watch "it's a wonderful life" this year, they're going too, whoa, it's about 2011, as we see mr. potter and jimmy stewart arguing about people's pain and community responsibilities. >> and how jimmy stewart explains how a bank works. your money isn't just sitting here. >> it serves as a reminder that the banking system is completely unaccountable for the financial crisis. that bankers haven't been in prison, they haven't been held at trial. that bankers are causing another crisis in europe. >> so when that -- frank khapra, left-wing propaganda comes on. >> it also reminds us, even if you're poor, it's as yet a wonderful life, as long as you have isuzu's petals. >> there are a couple of things that have come in the course of this conversation. what is worth noting is that the median income this country declined. it was 61,600 in 2010. it was 55,300. you know, the middle class, and

we talk about income inequality, talk about income disparity. and yet we have reports that luxury goods are, you know, at peak levels. "the wall street journal" says sales of luxury cars are going strong. saks fifth avenue had sales up in november. meanwhile, at target, walmart and toys "r" us, the layaway programs have expanded. you have, effectively, two americans here in terms of economic health. i think that there's a real disconnect between those in leadership and congress, who are, you know, talking about payroll tax cuts and unemployment insurance, and those who are actually dealing with this stuff, and whose heads are barely being kept above water because of these subsidies, because of these tax credits. >> my concern here, though, is that in the genius of the founders, the idea was to link the outcomes for ordinary people to the outcomes for elected leaders. and when you have a political system that can disfranchise the poorest americans through these new voter i.d. laws, through active redistricting, through a variety of ways that actually

makes them not only poor, economically disenfranchised, but also politically disenfranchised, so that these elected officials don't have to be accountable to these folks. because one of the things that we do often in media is say, but, your constituents will lose this, but the thing is, if -- >> if your constituents are no longer -- >> are no longer actually voting. if your constituents are a much narrower slice of the pie. so part of how we improve this is actually the expansion of democracy. there's an economic question, but there's also a democratic health question. >> that is a beautiful segue to a topic we wanted to discuss earlier, which is redistricting. and in arizona, specifically, jan brewer has -- they have redistricted -- they have effectively given democrats in the state a win. jan brewer wanted the -- was upset at the redistrict map in the state, and sort of wanted to have the independent committee sort of tossed out. the supreme court stayed the decision. but, ultimately, the state supreme court, the map will stay, and it favors democrats.

but if we're talking about the battle around redistricting, jesse, i know this is something that propublica has covered. >> yes, propublica, we just put out a story yesterday on california democrats gaming the new citizens commission that was going to handle the redistricting in a bipartisan, fair, open way. and in fact, propublica found multiple instances of democrats creating astroturf organizations, misleading people, creating the map, manipulating it in such a way that projections -- internal, democratic projections said we would gain six congressional seats instead of the two that we deserved. so in some ways, you know, in arizona and in california, the democrats are winning this political fight. in california, they were going too far. >> it is devastating in a bipartisan fashion, as we talk about democracy and fairness in elections. up next on "now," party of acceptance or party of disapproval? how each side is handling the gay vote. and at 1:00, the president

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i think for those for whom the only issue of deaf nation of marriage [ inaudible ]. >> so what if it is the biggest issue? >> i won't get their support. if that's most important to you, you should be for obama. >> that's newt gingrich telling iowa voter scott arnold that he won't expect his support. the sound on that, on our little microphones, was a little bit blurry, but effectively, gingrich makes the case that the republican party or he as a candidate is not someone who prioritizes lbgt rights and says, you know, we care about economic prosperity, about a better future for america, but if your priority is, you know,

lbgt, i would say civil rights, go vote for obama. >> but i think, specifically, the guy -- gay marriage, vote for obama. which is probably one of the truest things newt gingrich has ever said. but, you know, the republican party, and these candidates in particular, are in -- they're so on the wrong side of the issue and the wrong side of history. you take rick perry's strong ad, where he says, you know, obama has a war on religion, because gay men and lesbians can do the honorable thing and serve openly to protect this country. you have michele bachmann and the little set-to she had yesterday in iowa with folks, rick santorum is a whole other category all by himself when it comes to this issue. herman cain, he's no longer in the picture, so we can leave him alone, and mitt romney, who he was running against senator ted kennedy, for the senate seat,

has all these beautiful comments about equality and inclusion and how he would be a better champion for gay rights than senator kennedy, because he's a republican, and now look where he is. >> and what newt gingrich investigators is, as he's throwing out that red meat to part of his base, this election is over this 20% in the middle who may or may not be for gay marriage, but who don't want to vote for a guy who is that callus and dismissive of this important issue. >> i think, though, there are two tiers of the republican response. certainly, your bachmanns, your perrys, and santorums are very far right not issue. but mitt romney, and i want to play the sound from the debate, when he was asked about his position on social rights, is trying to think ahead to the general election, i think, in terms of the way he expresses his positions on the matter. >> well, i'll begin by taking exception with your list there. i did change my -- >> which one? >> gay rights. >> well -- >> i'm firmly in support of

people not being discriminated against based upon their sexual orientation. at the same time, i oppose same-sex marriage. that's been my position from the beginning. >> mitt romney knows -- it's not quite the opposite, but very different from what newt said. >> it's in some ways the barack obama position. >> doesn't -- well, you say formally. >> because -- >> well, i only say that because the president has said twice now that he's evolving, quote. evolving on the issue. >> as soon as the election's over, i will evolve. >> some would say, before the election. >> but, and that's actually a very interesting point. because there is some -- joe williams in politico had that great piece i think the other way saying that the white house is now actively trying to court the gay vote. and we have anecdotes -- we have stories of gay couples that got married in brooklyn and received a letter from president obama congratulating them. it's all done sort of under the radar, but it's in sense, like a dog whistle, i think, to a certain degree to the lbgt

community saying, look, we're on your side, but we can't come out there yet. > >> come out yet? >> -- on marriage. >> there's a couple of different things we want to parse here. one is that mitt romney is not wrong on one key issue. and that is that the issue of civil and social and economic equality is only partly encapsulated by the issue of marriage. what is far more appalling is the fact that in this country, in most states in the union, you can be denied equal and fair housing, you can be fired from your job, you can lose custody in some parts of this country. so there are fundamental issues, as well as the key and central issue of marriage. and so he's not completely wrong in parsing that. and i think what we want to remember is that there is no gay vote. and african-americans have voted in kind of 90 -- but there's no single -- in other words, when you look at people who self-identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered, they vote across both parties.

part of what the republican party may actually be doing is creating a gay vote, in the sense of actually creating a vote -- putting themselves in a position where, to have the identity, lesbian, gay, or transgendered and to vote for the republican party would be to vote against ones self, which hasn't always been true. >> the way the republican's consensus on immigration and their -- >> that's great. >> -- and their vitriol towards immigration creates a hispanic vote. >> there's the long-term versus the short-term. we'll be back with more on this coming up after the break. i'm chris cillizza. coming up on "andrea mitchell report reports", the payroll tax fight, going down to the wire. we'll hear from president obama at the top of the hour. plus, democratic congressman from michigan, sandy levin, and politico's roger simon takes a look at the ron paul phenomenon.

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we were speaking in that last segment about the gop position on social issues, specifically lbgt rights and gay marriage. i also wanted to talk about religion, broadly, and bring up this newt gingrich quote from july of 2010. gingrich's obsession with sharia law taking over the american judicial system seems, well, gingrichian. "the fight against the sharia and the madrassas and mosques, which team hatred and fanaticism is the heart of which the terrorists spring forth. and it's time we had a national debate on this" >> let's prohibit vampires for running from office too. it's that ridiculous. i want them to tell me how we

get from where we are now to this horrible sharia law future. literally? >> if one activist judge -- it's just one activist -- we're just one activist away. >> i don't want sharia law either. and if it were more of an issue/problem than, say, vampires, i would be more upset about it, but it isn't. >> you'd have to dry every under sharia, already wife could never take the wheel of the car. >> it would be really inconvenient. but i think if we're talking about divisive discourse, and the long game on american opinions of gay rights, which is now becoming a civil rights issue, i think, in large part, due to changing values in this country, the issue of religion and the way that the islamic religion has been treated in this country and you have scholars from across the spectrum who have said, it's folks like gingrich saying stuff like that about sharia law, which inflames tempers thousands of miles away. if we're really talking about american threats, this is how

you -- this is how you engender a threat. this is how you radicalize people. and the notion that no one -- i mean, that you have a field of candidates, very few of whom who have come out and said, this kind of -- this -- had the courage -- >> and imagine, i was just in egypt and tunisia, imagine if the new egyptian or tunisian government came out and said the same thing about christian influence. we would all think, oh, my god, these islamists are going crazy. >> the good thing about not being under sharia law is that newt gingrich has every right to make these kind of statements. the question is about us. the idea that someone who makes those sort ofs of statements is a reasonable candidate for the u.s. presidency. that he very well may win the nomination of an american political party, suggests to me that it's nice to demonize newt himself, because it's so easy -- >> but it's not just newt

either. >> no, this is a much broader problem of american political discourse, that is clearly sort of a post-9/11, posttraumatic stress disorder response that in that moment, we decide that there's a whole another group that is our enemy, and that is -- >> this is the central demographic problem of the republican party on the right, which is that their main constituency is white men who have been left behind in the economic, you know, in the economy, over the last 30 years, and so the right -- >> well, they still hold most of the wealth and most of the income. >> well, working class white men. >> yes, but working class white men have not done worse than working class black men or worse -- >> done worse -- >> white men -- >> -- ever done before. so that's it! >> -- declining relatively. and i'm not -- the republicans, then want to appeal to -- this is their core constituency. so they're marginalizing themselves, as you both were

talking about, with immigrants, with hispanics, with muslims, with gays. baa the issue here is that they're fighting within themselves for -- >> and to what noble end? a question we will have many, many months and perhaps years to answer. thank you, again, to jesse, kurt, jonathan, and melissa harr harris-perry, who will be filling in for lawrence o'donnell on "the last word" tonight. she will be asking what santa claus has to do with democracy. do not miss it. that does it for now. i'll see you back here tomorrow at noon eastern. but until then, you can follow us on twitter @nowwithalex. the indubitable, the impossible chris cillizza is in for andrea. what a way to begin the holiday season. hello, chris. >> alex, your check is in the mail for that introduction. >> thank you. i'll be waiting by the mailbox. >> thank you. have a good day. >> you too! up next, we expect president obama to speak live at the top

of the hour about the impasse over extending the payroll tax cut. plus, in our daily fix, the war of words heats up between newt gingrich and mitt romney. and with just over a week to go before iowa, we'll talk expectations with the rick perry campaign. "andrea mitchell reports" is next on msnbc. people love the surf & turf. you can't go wrong. [ male announcer ] don't miss red lobster's surf & turf. 3 grilled combinations all under $20. like maine lobster with peppercorn sirloin, or new bacon-wrapped shrimp with blue cheese sirloin for $14.99. offer ends soon. i'm john mazany and i sea food differently. see? he's taking his vitamins. new one a day vitacraves plus omega-3 dha is a complete multivitamin for adults. plus an excellent source of omega-3 dha in a great tasting gummy. one a day, gummies for grown-ups.

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get this free information kit and medicare guide you don't need to be an aarp member to call. don't wait. call now for free information about the additional coverage you may need. ♪ you are looking at live pictures of the south court auditorium in the white house, where president obama is expected to speak any moment. his latest remarks are about a payroll tax cut extension that has roiled washington. president obama has been playing offense, a rare moment for him in 2011, playing offense on the issue against house republicans, who earlier this week voted down a two-month payroll tax cut extension. lots of pressure on republicans to reverse that, including from senate majority -- senate minority leader, excuse me, senate minority leader mitch mcconnell of kentucky, who's basically said, let's pass the twmo