thank you, richard. the show begins right now. well, good thursday afternoon to you. i am dylan ratigan and as 2011 winds down and we all look together to 2012, americans from across the political spectrum, right, left, center, us here at "the d.r. show," all of us talking about trying to fix our structural problems that are preventing real investment, innovation, and obviously job creation in this country. that is our big story this country -- or this day, i should say. remaking our country. it's why early next year, we're hitting the road again on a 30 million jobs tour. that is correct. we are in need of 30 million jobs to dig ourselves out of the hole we're in. fortunately, we have a lot to do, which would make you create we could create a lot of jobs. we need to get rid of some of the trade, tax, and banking laws which were strangling us, but the influence of the bought political structure that preserves so much of the status quo prevents us from getting the debate on health care, education, and energy that perhaps as a country we truly deserve.

more on the jobs tour at the first of the year. but i want to begin today on the subject of what we're doing and what we can do now to fix america and have compassion for ourselves and for our country as we go through this transition. we begin with nbc news special correspondent, tom brokaw. a man who's been traveling the nation and has written a book about it. "the time of our lives," a conversation about america, about who we've been, and where we need to go now to recapture the american dream. top, thanks for being with us. i want to read everybody an excerpt from your book. you write the following. you say, "shouldn't we take a realistic inventory of our strengths, needs, objectives and challenges as we head into a new century in a changed world? none of us has all the answers, but so many of the problems are self-evident, that we should begin by first addressing those that threaten our core values? i read that and thought to myself, what is going on with

the world when tom brokaw sounds like dylan ratigan. it either means you've become a radical or i've gone mainstream or we're all really in real life seeing the same thing. >> i don't think there's anything radical in that statement at all. i think part of the problem in this country has been that we had it so good for so long, we always thought we would just cycle out again. you'll remember that when ronald reagan came into office, we went into a very sharp recession. paul volcker tightened down because he wanted to cure inflation. unemployment was in double digits for almost three years, but when we came out of that recession, we didn't have china just off our bow. we had oil at about $20 a barrel at that time. we didn't have india and brazil and russia and the emerging markets beginning compete with us. moreover, we had a manufacturing base in this country. because it had not yet completely shifted overseas. so there are objective differences now and we have to be aware of that as we go into in new century. that's what i talk about in "the time of our lives." i address a lot of it to my

generation, i'm 71 years old, i'm not a boomer, i was born in 1940, but i've been the beneficiary of the greatest generation. i look at my grandchildren and i think, what are they going to say about us in 40 years or 50 years? i know what we say about our parents, what they did for us. what should we be doing now to make sure that they get an even crack at having some of the life that we've had. >> there's something that you really capture with "the greatest generation," which is a decision collectively in this nation to seize its better aspects, if you will, and to realize there's an emergent factor in the human condition that allows a person to make a decision that actually can influence what happens next. we're not rocks. we're not trees. we get to actually influence what has happened. i'm interested in your perspective on where we are as a country now, and even the awareness that clearly was prevalent with the greatest generation with not only their responsibility, but the fact that they had the opportunity

through their collective action to make a difference. >> once you get outside the beltway, people are very conscious of what's going on. i have a lot of friends in the agri business. these are young people who have addressed agriculture in an entirely different way. they lease a lot of ground, they've got highly mechanized farming going on, and they rotate their crops based on what the futures are -- every day they're on the internet and they're taking a look at what brazil needs and what brazil is doing. what china is going to need in terms of grain. there is an awareness across the country. but they're looking for leadership to lead them to that higher ground. and also, i think, to reintroduce the idea of, i suppose, values and proportion into our lives. in my book, i talk a lot about how we lost our way in housing. everybody had to have a mcmansion. skperve cou and everybody could sign up for a loan.

we know the price for that is still out there. there are 20 million homes that are in some peril. we lost our way in education. i think if i were to do one thing in america to change the landscape, it would be a crusade about education. and we have to break the old model, start with new ones, try everything. what's most encouraging to me is it's now on the agenda. they are trying charter schools and magnet schools. community colleges are in a boom period because they're teaching skill sets for young workers. there are a lot of things that people are aware of, but we are, unfortunately, in this political cycle, less than the sum of our parts. >> and how do you interpret that? if you look at the disconnection between the american people and if you poll the american people, obviously, they disapprove strongly of congress. they disapprove strongly of really the democrats and the republicans in terms of the excellence of their leadership. the american people, as you point out, are not oblivious to this. how do you explain the disconnection between the policy-making apparatus and the sentiment in the country and put it in the context of the work you did, for instance, in 1968,

which is another point in time when there was obviously a big stress level in a gap. >> in 1968, no question about it. we were a very fractured country and we had three people running for president this year. you know, we had hubert humphrey, who represented the old traditional democrats, richard nixon, who was reinventing the republican party, and george wallace who came out of the south with a message of pure racial bigotry. and yet the country survived all that. in the second term, richard nixon gave us watergate, but we also learned from that and healed ourselves from that as well. i think the differences are now, dylan, that the role of huge money in american politics fuels very narrow interests. and also that's backed up by the power of the internet and the use of bloggers and websites to define a politician. i use the word ear tag. that's a western term. when you get a new calf, you ear tag it, so you know what the

number is and where that calf is. liberal or conservative, do they meet my expectations about my narrow interests? grover norquist is a perfect example in making everyone sign the no-tax pledge. but there are examples on the left as well. i think we need to get beyond that. i don't know how you're going to pull big money out of politics. >> how about a constitutional amendment? >> well, i think -- i think it will probably have a hard time passing. i think it would have a hard time meeting the constitutional test of free speech. i've been following this for a long time. my earliest days as a political reporter, i used to cover money. one of the things that occurred to me over the years is the public doesn't care. they don't care, because they think it's always been that way. but it's never been bigger than it is right now. it does mean, however, that the two parties could get together in some fashion. we could have some more reasonable parts of it. and i'm a big believer in transparency. let's let the sun shine. who's getting it? who's giving it? what are they using? >> one of the midwest interesting things to that end is the pension system, the capital base of this country. you talk about the agriculture business. we have all these major capital bases in this country, the

teacher's pension, the policeman's pension, et cetera. and it is that capital base and those pension managers that really are the collateral for the finance industry, for a lot of what happens. your thoughts on leveraging that power to say, listen, we as the teacher's pension, we as the policeman's pension demand nor transparency in the types of companies we're willing to own. >> well, let's take -- >> or anything like that. >> i think that that's a very sound idea. but here's what happens instead, by the way. take california. california has always kind of helped invent america. it's always been on the leading edge. unfortunately, it's on the leading edge now of where we're going wrong. they've got a $15 billion deficit out there. they can't move the needle. jerry brown has tried everything at this point. in part because the state is divided up by all of those parts, some of which you just mentioned. the teacher's unions and the prison guards. and they've got pension funds

and they could use them for the greater good. but their inclination is to use them to enhance their pensions, to have a bigger piece of the public pie. and that's another logjam that we have to break. i think as we go into the 21st century, one of the things we have to start looking at is more public/private partnerships, for example, in states like california. new york has 11,000 state agencies. now, they all employ someone, but it's not very productive work in the final analysis. that's something else that has to be addressed. but pensions, using their leverage, they could do that. their inicalclination is to sayw could i get more from my pension fund or from my particular group? >> as i leave you with a couple thoughts, we could pontificate until we're blue in the face, but for me, sitting in this chair as an american taxpayer, for the audience sitting at home, places we could focus our attention to? >> the phrase i've been using around the country and i use a lot in the book, and it seems to resonate with a lot of folks, i say, it's time to reenlist as a citizen.

and as you reenlist as a citizen, be prepared to work with someone who may not share exactly your same views, but you can find some common ground. and for me, the big, big crusade that we have to launch in this country, we've got to fix education. we've got to develop a workforce that can compete in what is going on in these other markets that we are out there. we're way behind in science. if we were the white suburbs of the united states, it would be a different thing. but we're all of us in this now and we'll need everybody to get on the the deck. >> it's wonderful to spend some time with you before the holidays and congratulations. >> thank you very much. >> "the time of our lives," the book, there's the cover. i'm sure it will be on "the new york times" best seller. >> it's been on. >> i was reading the greatest generation, there. still ahead, education and innovation. which american university is at the head of the class.

the answer may surprise you, speaking of mr. brokaw's comments. but first, mad as hell, senator bernie sanders joins us next on the disconnect between washington and the rest of the united states. plus, the holiday menu in washington, pigs in a blanket, mini meatballs, and a healthy serving of wall street cash ealth probiotic cap a day helps defends against occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health.

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this is it. this is exactly why people get so frustrated with washington. has this place become so dysfunctional that even when people agree to things, we can't do it? the house needs to pass a short-term version of this compromise and then we should negotiate an agreement as

quickly as possible. >> well, obviously, that the president with another day of tough talk about republicans extending the payroll tax cut for two months. and it seems to have worked. there are now reports speaker boehner has agreed to call a house vote on the senate version. the cave-in, as you call it, has begun. friend of the show, independent senator bernie sanders joins us for a broader conversation. senator, what is your explanation for the gap? the american people obviously know, i don't know if you heard the conversation with tom brokaw, you obviously look at the data, the approval ratings for pick your favorite institution, et cetera. the american people know, but the government doesn't seem to be adapting to what the sentiment is reflecting. why do you believe that is? >> i think the answer is pretty simple. the united states congress, to a certain degree, the white house are dominated by big money interests. if you look at who contributes to campaigns, by and large, they are very wealthy people.

if you look at the lobbying effort that takes place in washington. it is beyond belief. when we look at what happened at wall street and the collapse of wall street as a result of deregulation, we can never forget that wall street spent $5 billion over a ten-year period lobbying for that deregulation. so to answer your question, dylan, i don't look at congress as having personality defects, people can't along, all that stuff. that's not the issue. the issue is that congress is dominated by people who have a whole lot of money. if you take a look at what's happened in the past couple of years, congress has been working very well for the top 1%, for the top 2%. >> you see it with the occupation, you see it with the tea party, you see it with the response to things like the get money out movement, 200,000 some odd signatures. you see it in the amendment you recently introduced.

it's really everywhere you look. >> absolutely. >> the question is, how do you take that and use it to create actual leverage on other politicians so that we can -- if politicians go every which way the wind blows, how do we change the wind, so to speak? >> i think, dylan, you've had the $64,000 question. that is the real question. let me give you some examples. every single poll i have seen says at a time we're in this terrible recession, unemployment's sky high, middle class declining, while the wealthiest people are becoming much richer and are paying the lowest effective tax rate in decades, overwhelmingly, the american people, including many republicans, are saying the wealthiest people in this country have got to pay more in taxes. when you have corporate loopholes out there that are a mile wide, so that large corporations can make billions in profit, not pay a nickel in federal corporate taxes, the

american people are saying, close those loopholes. yet in congress, that is not happening, because you have a lot of people who are standing there, fighting for the wealthy and fighting for the large corporations. on the other side, in terms of the safety net, poll after poll says, don't cut social security. don't cut medicare. don't cut medicaid. and yet, day after day, we are having to fight back against many members of the congress who want to slash social security, medicare, and medicaid, all of which speaks to your point. is that congress functions in one way, in my view, representing the interest of the wealthy and the powerful, and on the other hand, the american people say, hey, that's not what we want. >> i know that we've run our clock, but you and i both have to agree that the rising temperature is an opportunity to effect change on a level we have not seen in at least a few years. >> i think that that's right. and i think we're going to see it. the american people are becoming

profoundly disgusted at a washington, d.c. which does not understand the extent of suffering, which is taking place in this country, where median family income is going down, poverty is going up, older workers are losing their jobs, and are working for after the wages they used to work. kids graduating high school, college, trying to get a career going, can't find any job at all. and people look at washington and they say, what are you doing? and i think we have got to make it very clear what a sensible program is and who is standing up for that program. for example, you go on, dylan, out on any street corner in america, and you say, should we create large number of jobs rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. what do you think people are going to say? >> absolutely not. that sounds absolutely terrible. you want to put people to work and solve a problem? >> right. overwhelmingly, we could not get any republican support for this. now, i'm an independent and i'm not here to tell you that the

democrats are perfect. they are far from it. they do not do as good a job in representing the american workers as they should. >> wonderful. >> i think if you look at what's going on -- >> yeah. >> -- republicans have simply anti-obama and refusing to fight -- >> thank you, senator. >> -- for the jobs that this country desperately needs. >> thank you so much. i couldn't agree more. bernie sanders. the white house today, also condemning new violence in iraq, specifically baghdad, which was rocked by at least 18 different bombings today. the death toll now up to 69, and reports are that those blasts could well be the work of al qaeda and they come less than a week after, of course, the final u.s. troops left iraq. this sort of thing whorrendous n every level, although, unfortunately, not anticipated. i want to bring in the thursday mega panel, karen, susan, and jimmy. and before we get into the war, very quickly, your resonance on

bernie sanders' message, the tom brokaw message? >> i think the american people would like for their politicians to actually understand and feel their pain. remember bill clinton said, feel your pain? they don't. they don't have a clue. >> no, they need to be brought into reality. not only do they not feel your pain, they don't care about your pain. >> i disagree with that. >> okay, they care more -- they don't feel their pain, but they're more preoccupied with getting re-elected. >> with self-preservation than themselves. >> karen, last word. >> voting. we've got to get out there and vote and hold politicians accountable. part of the reason that the people with the money are the ones that win elections is because they cater to an increasingly small number of people who actually participate in the process. >> which goes to tom brokaw's part about reenlisting as a citizen of the united states, and there can't be a better mechanism of reenlistment than actually voting. i do want to talk about the war, specifically. is there -- what is our greatest risk right now?

obviously, there is going to be violence in iraq. for a period to come. obviously, iran is going to attempt to project power in iraq in order to accumulate more power. obviously, we are not going to send military forces back into that country barring a remarkable threshold that i think will be difficult for to us conjure. at the same time, we have a pile of liabilities in the middle east, of which this is one. do you -- does anybody at this table and can anybody at this table point me as a journalist to somebody in our leadership, whether they are in our government or an influence in our government that is pointing in a direction that gives us a path to stability, let alone success, in the middle east. >> stability? not going to happen. and seriously, only because when you look at the governments that are there, you have so many new democracies out there. they have to grow. they have to develop on their own. the only thing that we can do is hopefully successfully back channel some of the things that we hope to help others do to succeed in growing there.

>> this would seem, karen, to be the moment for hillary clinton. >> well, hillary clinton, and barack obama. >> as an opportunity. >> i think he deserves a lot of credit here. one of the things i think we did take away from the war in iraq that this president has done, look at way he proceeded when it came to libya, when it came to the egypt, to the other part of the middle east. we didn't just go in willy-nilly with troops, they called it leading from behind, but we used our other assets. we have to get better about how we use intelligence assets and other assets, because we're not going to continue to put boots on the ground. to your question, dylan, one of the most important things at this momentum is we keep on that path of understanding that this doctrine of preemption and putting troops in on the ground and trying to be the world's cop is not the way to go. these countries have got to do it for themselves. >> but, at the same time, i'll pull from colin powell, which

is, with the pottery barn quote, if you broke it, you bought it. it's difficult to say we're not going to use the bush doctrine after we smashed the place to smitheree smithereens, after we broke it, but we're not going to pay for it. >> i seem to recall -- you said something about democracies, right, these new democracies? i seem to recall back in august, back in the summer i think i said on this show, be careful of the democracy you ask for, you might get it. i don't know what those democracies look like right now or what they're going to look like in six months or six years. what i can tell you, i'm 44 years old, i don't know how old you are or you arer, but in my lifetime, has the middle east ever been stable? >> but it's never been as unstable as it is right now. >> so why is it our problem? >> it is our problem for the simple reason that we obviously depend on them both for energy resources -- >> and because of israel. >> political posture -- >> related to israel. >> we have an issue in this

country that has to do with our own fear of being attacked from far away that has been value day-to-d validated enough times that that peer reinforces it. >> i think we should focus on america. >> we should add to that, when we talk about the costs of war and our machinery and all that, let's add in the cost of when our wounded troops come home, so what we're really looking at the total cost. because i bet you that will change a lot of people's opinions. >> i couldn't agree with that more. coming up, the panel stays, but forget get money out, sounds like we need to get pigs in a blanket out of politics first. [ male announcer ] what can you do with plain white rice? when you pour chunky beef with country vegetables soup over it... you can do dinner. four minutes, around four bucks. campbell's chunky. it's amazing what soup can do.

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well, we've already spent a portion of the show talking about the impact of money and the conflicting interests in our government and the resultant poverties and disparities that we're all suffering from as a nation, but what about the impact of those influences on

d.c.'s holiday parties? perhaps more important. it does turn out that the reals and ethics committee, who are looking out for our interests, have decided that members of congress being served meals and expensive drinks by lobbyists and fund-raisers, no less, is a huge no-no, protecting our integrity in the process. and so they've put forth a list of rules to protect our country. and as such, hamburgers are not allowed at such events, lest one of our congress folks be corrupted. instead, we simply serve them swedish meatballs. i'm not making this up, by the way. these are actual rules. you cannot corrupt with a hamburger, you can corrupt with a swedish meatball. pigs in a blanket, totally fine, who didn't love them? but a full-on frankfurter, that's an ethics violation. all of this, of course, for the sake of our lawmakers' integrity, you know. except for all the cash. i tried it with the straight face here, people! i am a newsman!

i am a newsman, delivering news. anyway, joining us now, the man on the front lines of the movement to get those pigs in a blanket out of our politics, our specialist, nick pendaman, i refer to him as the general. he is the president at united republic, and along with our own friend jimmy williams and josh silver are among the leaders of the get money out movement in this country, which now consists of an apparatus that is the largest single nonprofit by dollars and people on the issue of money in politics, correct? >> correct. >> update us on the tom brokaw invocation, reenlisting american citizens, which has been the priority for jimmy and you and the priority for the entire staff and apparatus over the last couple of months. what have you been doing to enlist people and are they enlisting?

>> they are, we're up to about 270,000 at the point. and i would take a piece of what bernie sanders said, or what you asked him about, about changing the direction of the wind, and about what brokaw said, about everyone listening as says. at this point, with washington doesn't get it. washington actually believes -- and i read that same "washington post" article that you read today about how hot dogs are fine, but if you cut them up into little pieces and call them pigs in blankets, it's not fine. washington honestly believes they can play these games with us and act as if there isn't a problem in washington anymore, right? and what we have to do is call them on their charade. so we need to take that list and move it fast. so we need anyone who signed up to get other people sign up. >> what are you having people doing? what do i do wm >> this is how you change the direction of the wind. you've got to show washington

that people in the heartland of this country are infuriated. they know that the game is over. we're doing two things. number one, a pledged campaign with politicians. we've got to every politician in this country on the record as to whether or not they believe this system is completely broken and needs to be fixed or not. >> you sound like the good witch of grover norquist there for a second. >> yes, exactly. >> a witch all the same. anyway, there's a good witch, go on. >> and then number two, we've got to get more city resolutions passed akin to the one l.a. passed. the l.a. city council said our system is fundamentally broken and we've got to fix it. we hit our list with a message last week and asked people to sign up to get these passed in their hometowns and 5,000 people signed up in a day and a half. that, guys, is a huge number. that's not just asking someone to do a meetup or make a phone

call to a member of congress, that's to get a city resolution passed. that big, heavy ask. that is a hot list and it's clear that people out there are ready to go the organizing. the value of getting these resolutions passed, again, it changes the wind. it creates a gale of wind that washington will not be able to ignore. >> susan? >> going to the pledge, first, are you going to ask them not to take corporate contributions? because unless you're going to ask them to completely opt out, it can seem like they want to do good and that's very nice. and part two is, once you have these resolutions and once you have a million people, what are they going to do? are you going to ask them to support people running for office? is it about voting other people out? i mean, what action are they going to do once everyone kind of agrees in this world that, okay, we're not going to have any money in politics left? >> okay the pledge campaign is more a statement of principle about how broken the system and is it needs fundamental change, not just tinkering here and there. >> but what's that fundamental

change? >> fundamental change, in our minds, we've got to eventually amend the constitution to fix this, have complete transparency of all political donations, clamp down on independent expenditures, and possibly also push for a whole new way of financing campaigns, which means public financing. in terms of what people do in addition to this kind of work, there are lots of victories along the way between now and amending the united states constitution. it's about disclosure and transparency bills. it's about getting rid of judicial elections. there's no reason that judges should be raising money to run for office and then ruling on their benefactors, basically. so there are lots of little factories that lead and precipitate a larger victor that we'll be arguing around the future too. >> karen, go ahead. >> so i would just offer a thought. and then i want to come back to what's going on with jimmy's face and the shaving situation there. but, um -- in all seriousness, it strikes me that one of the things to

think about is not just in terms of get money out, also, how people are spending their time. so members of congress, a committee, sat around and spend some time, literally, deciding that it's okay to have a pig in a blanket and not a hot dog. that was time that they were not spending on dealing with the payroll tax issue, where now they're saying, need more time. that's time they weren't spending on dealing with the deficit. my point being is, you know, some of these initiatives that these guys are working on, or it's time that they spend working on the initiatives that matter, let's say, to some of their big donors, like keystone, and not necessarily on the things that the american people really care about. so i think part of getting the money out is looking at, what are they spending their time on? because it doesn't feel like they're spending their time on the things that matter most. >> and i want to add one thing too that. if we can show everybody this. the folks at united republican have done an absolutely spectacular job in renovating the original get money out website. i'm going somewhere with your

question, karen. but i want to show folks with the resources, especially if you scroll droown a little bit, youl see. there's a map that shows people where other people are that have already signed it. it's basically a heat map, of sorts. and i do wonder whet how muchime congressman was spending on what, it might be very valuable. >> and it would be very disappointing, yeah. yeah. i mean, that's the sad thing. jimmy knows this better than anyone else. which is that they're spending the -- in a re-elect year,

probably 40% of their time dialing for dollars. and 90% of the time they're dialing to do not live in their district, will never meet them, and they all are loaded. so they're basically just immersing themselves in the lives of rich people on the phone, trying to get the money in so they can run for re-election. >> all right. well, jimmy's face gets a fair. hey, karen, merry christmas. hayba payback's hell, baby. >> nick, thank you so much for everything that you are doing, have done, everybody that you are working with. jimmy, the same to you. on behalf of, again, hundreds of thousands of people who have explicitly signed up and millions of people who, i'm certain, are in agreement in principle, it is wonderful to have the benefit of your efforts. >> thank you guys too. >> yeah. >> happy holidays. >> and you don't mind if we call you the general, right? >> better than grover's

whatever. >> grover's good witch. stay in your seat. up mind, we'll talk about how you tweet. i'd like one of those desserts and some coffee. sure. cake or pie? pie. apple or cherry? cherry. oil or cream? oil or cream? cream. reddi-wip uses real dairy cream. nothing's more real than reddi-wip.

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well, here in the northern hemisphere, it's officially the first day of winter. officially the shortest day of the year. everything north of the arctic circle after today is in 24 hours of continual darkness. research proves that a lack of sunlight changes your chemical makeup, lowers your energy levels, makes you depressed. you know how it is. think of it this way, the days only now get longer. that's what i do. if you're lacking if for a little laughter to brighten your day, you're in luck. according to twitter, the two happiest holidays are upon us, grinch notwithstanding. christmas and new year's. despite all the bah humbugs and scheduling stress and all the rest of it, their study shows happiness peaks during the

holidays and no surprise, it also peaks on the weekends. the happiest hour of the day, between 5:00 and 6:00 in the morning on saturday. lots of folks getting up on the right side of the bed, i suppose. but guess what sparked the deepest multi-week depression on twitter from uvm's research? none other than the $700 billion t.a.r.p. bailout period. all i have to say is, tell me about it. coming up, don't think small business. i want you to think new business. we'll take you to the college campus where that lesson is taught every single day. we know a place where tossing and turning have given way to sleeping. where sleepless nights yield to restful sleep. and lunesta can help you get there, like it has for so many people before. when taking lunesta, don't drive or operate machinery until you feel fully awake.

walking, eating, driving, or engaging in other activities while asleep, without remembering it the next day, have been reported. abnormal behaviors may include aggressiveness, agitation, hallucinations or confusion. in depressed patients, worsening of depression, including risk of suicide, may occur. alcohol may increase these risks. allergic reactions, such as tongue or throat swelling, occur rarely and may be fatal. side effects may include unpleasant taste, headache, dizziness and morning drowsiness. ask your doctor if lunesta is right for you. then get lunesta for $0 at lunesta.com. there's a land of restful sleep. we can help you go there on the wings of lunesta.

tells the neighbors all about her son, the lawyer. someday, but not today mr. intern. today, your boss needs her caffeine. the boss that calls you nick. your name is nate. but you'll do whatever it takes to impress. you'll bring her the all-natural sugar in the raw and the all natural, zero calorie sweetener

stevia in the raw. now run along and learn lots. like how she doesn't drink coffee, just tea. it's only natural.

well, if you're looking to go to school and start your own business, then feel free to scratch harvard, princeton, and stanford off your list. no offense. but because the university of utah actually turns out to be the place for you. the utes, my friend. in 2010, the university of utah started more start-up companies than any other college in the united states. their very own cradle of innovation. and as we launch our campaign for 30 million jobs, remember, start-ups account for a fifth of job creation. and joining us now from the cradle of innovation in utah, jack britton, vp for technology venture department at the university of utah. to what do you attribute the remarkable output of new business from your university?

>> well, dylan, it's a pleasure to be on your show. it's always about the inventi inventiveness of our faculty and their commitment to making a difference in the world. and they like to see their research out in the market and products out and jobs created. >> at the same time, there's lots of inventive and creative people, lots of very dynamic universities around the country. do you feel that your vascul advantages -- have you set this as a specific goal, where others have some other motivation? >> absolutely. i think that it starts with leadership at the top. we've had a lot of commitment from our administration to make this happen. but the other thing that we figured out is that as a university, this can be a huge enhancement to our program. and so we involved last year, for instance, 1,809 students in

the various programs that we have. so it's not just about being outside the university, it's really being at the core and committed to the university mission of investigation, research, and then service to our community. so we, on purpose, are trying to create jobs for our graduates and the kind of community we'd like to live in. >> and that really is -- there's a difference between creating a job that pays money to somebody and creating a job where somebody earns money by doing something of value for other people. and i know that your priority is that second definition of a job, that you must do something that actually has value. it doesn't mean, in the most literal sense, necessarily, but you have to be producing something that is of use to other people. is that correct? >> that is absolutely correct. and all of the jobs that we're creating are based on technologies invented here at the university by our faculty. and then we support the development of those technologies with small grants programs. we call it small, light, fast

money to actually help that technology be invested in by the private sector. and the key to our success is engaging the private sector to actually take these out and create jobs in our community. the average job we create pays 150% of our state average, so they're good-paying jobs, they're career positions, and they're jobs that our graduates can occupy. >> you told one of our producers before the show today that the united states is creating about 600 new tech start-ups a year. across the whole country. >> that's -- >> is that right? >> across all of the universities, yes. across all of the universities in the country. so that's about one per hundred million in research. the university of utah last year created one start up for every 12 million in research. so if the rest of the universities in the country were having doing half as well as we were, we'd be creating thousands of companies as a nation. >> and do you believe that the characteristics of the goal setting, the collaboration

between the engineering and technology department of the university and the public sector, as a cradle of innovation, as an orchestra of variables that are working all at the same time is transferable to other university environments around the country, and for that matter, the world? >> absolutely. and we've been visited by countries like the country of norway and ireland, who are trying to look to regenerate new jobs in their economy. certainly, most of the states in the united states, we've had some interaction with, in the past year. everyone's looking to do this. and it's really quite achievable. it's about having a very systemic approach. we're not random in what we do. we have a systemic method. and we're willing to teach anybody how to do it. the other flip side on this is we only spend about 500,000 a year on our programs to do company creation. that's a pittance compared to what what some states are spending, but we actually have a

high effectiveness because we use the money very smart. we use small grant programs and as companies hit milestones, we pass on more grants. >> we talk to folks about doing this in crime, where 3/10 of the population is committing the crime. you're basically using hot-spotting, if yo will, as a mechanism to deploy cash to develop things. is that something that we could be -- is transferable? >> right. and we call it small, light, fast money. so small amounts. our smallest grant is $5,000. that's a modest amount to actually do proof of concept. and we lair on a $35,000 grant. hit that milestone, get a $40,000 grant. so our money is chasing success. we don't gallop on a huge amount

of money, but it also requires knowledge. and the success of these companies as it occurs locally. we've had great success with that, and it hasn't taken billions of dollars. actually a few million statewide. last year, $2 million statewide created 55 enterprises in utah, of which we accounted for 23 of them. so not huge money to have high impact. >> that, my friend, is the wave of the future, as i see it. every person i meet who's solving a problem is using that problem-solving method, and it's an absolutely delight to meet you and to congratulate you on showing so many of us, i think, light on a path forward, jack. thank you so much, and have a wonderful holiday. >> yeah, thank you very much. >> all right. jack britain, technology ventures development, out of utah. when we come back, jeff chrysler with the christmas week in cheating. ♪

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time now for the week in cheating. our resident scrooge, jeff chrysler in the house. and the elephant in the room when it comes to extending those tax cuts. >> as you know, the republicans kind of sacrificed tax cuts for 160 million americans for 300,000 wealthy millionaires. now, i think this is fantastic, because they're protecting their interests, their constituency. the wealthy. that is really ultimately who they are for. and they're using hypocrisy as a weapon. everything that's great about america has been gained through hypocrisy. and americans are numb to it. they're numb to anti-gay

teachers going on, numb to newt gingrich going against infidelity while he himself is having an affair. and what's important here is republicans, as i said, they say that the system works. they're representing their interests, just like the founding fathers did. the founding fathers, white, slave-owning landholders. the 1 perfent, because they have that funny "s." and when it was all those guys were gathered in that room, it was "we" the people, not "them" the people. this week's bad enough insider trading is bad enough among our politicians, but now gentleman and ladies on wall street are going down to visit our politicians to pay them money to get the information so that then they can come back to new york and trade on it. >> again, this is fantastic. this is how the system works. you scratch my back, i'll scratch tomorrow's winning lotto numbers into your back. i don't really see what the problem is. if you can't offer your campaign contributors or lobbyists actual

legislation, and we know legislation gets done, just give them the money directly. money finds way. it's like life in "jurassic park." i think the american people should lay down and let it trickle down all over them. if they don't like it, change the constitution. thomas jefferson really wanted our constitution re-written every generation. they didn't know about the internet or cloning or drunk elderly people driving in the wrong lane. >> and finally, i'm thinking more like a 28th amendment to end that, but we're on a different page. different pages. >> you can put that in the end of ours. >> finally, the 1% doing their patriotic duty this holiday season. jeff, what are they doing for america? >> even though the 1% has been attacked by the, oh, i can't provide for my family crowd and the poverty-controlled media, they're out there spending like never before, buying $88 million

apartments in new york and shiny baubles. and i think this is fantastic. i mean, first of all, it makes them feel good, a little retail therapy. but more than that, it's the patriotic duty -- >> let's stop there. do you think they're down on themselves from all the criticism and they want to feel better by spending money. >> when they're driving past wall street in their limos, they can sometimes see people shouting or hear the drums. and it makes them feel kind of sad. so cheer them up by buying some worthless stuff that's the price of some of those foreclosed homes. and it's the patriotic duty. you've got to buy shiny fiddles while rome is burning. this is our self-imposed robin hood tax. take from the rich and give to the poor real estate brokers and mistresses and blood diamond dictators. and frankly, when it comes to getting america out of our crisis, who's better situated to do it than the 1%? how can you inspire today's kids if not, you know, an overblown suv or hummer, how are they going to find the motivation to work in newt's services? >> before we run out of time,