possibly could. left via the world of politics, went back into business. now i have the opportunity again to use the experience i have -- you have a surprised look on your face. it's still my time. >> are you going to tell people you're not going to run for reelection for president if you with in? >> rick, it's still my time. >> i'm just asking. >> go ahead, governor romney, take 30 seconds there. >> what i'm going to tell you is, this for me politics is not a career. for me, my career was being in business and starting a business and making it successful. my life's passion has been my family, my faith and my country. >> as you made the point, finally, somebody asked the question why didn't you run for reelection if you're such a great governor of massachusetts. he didn't have much of an answer. >> he didn't have an answer. as others point out, mitt romney, newt calling it pious baloney. >> pick up on this. saying he's not a career politician saying it's baloney.

he's been running since 1994. he never stopped running. here's the point made by newt gingrich. >> i realize the red light doesn't mean anything to you because you're the front-runner. [ laughter ] but can we drop a little bit of the pious baloney. the fact is you ran in '94 and lost. the fact is you had a very bad reelection rating. you dropped out of office. you had been out of state for something like 200 days preparing to run for president. you didn't have the interlude of citizenship while figure -- you ran for president while governor. you were going all over the country. you were out of state consistently. then you promptly re-entered politic. you lost to mccain as you lost to kennedy. now you're back running. you've been running for years and years and years. this idea that suddenly it showed up in your mind, level with the american people. you've been running at least since the 1990s.

>> devastating. >> he's been -- if he's the nominee against president obama, obama can throw this in his face. you're not the innocent here buddy. >> he likes to portray himself as i'm a businessman. this is not my career. i'm a business guy. i just did this to help out for my country. moments of patriotism. why do these guys wait? a couple things hit me. late in the game. it's sunday, two days before the new hampshire primary. we've had months to rip the scab off this profession of innocence. why now? >> this is the last clear chance. if mitt romney wins big here, he has momentum into south carolina. he can potentially wrap up the nomination. >> this is the pass of politics. new hampshire. everybody is firing at you from the hills. also, go to gene's point. things happen here late. i've covered a million of these. the ground moves in new hampshire on the last week what they have to -- >> you need a moderator to open the door for them.

>> i am not a media critic. but the door was never opened for this kind of assault. david gregory opened the door from the beginning of the debate. >> i think they were all nervous. they didn't know how it would play. they thought, here's a guy who is the front-runner, republicans aren't supposed to be like that. they're not supposed to go after each other. you go down to the wire, they've got to do something. they've got to slow him down. >> let's look at the tv ads. for month, all three of us were in iowa sitting in our hotel rooms. we would come home and watch the devastating super p.a.c. ads. late in the debate, a few moments ago, mitt romney and newt gingrich had this heated exchange of ads put out by a super p.a.c. that clearly backs mitt romney. this is finally the issue we've been talking about. lits listen. >> governor, i wish you would calmly and directly state it is your former staff running the p.a.c., your millionaire friends giving the pam and you know some of the ads aren't true.

say that straightforward. [ applause ] >> well, of course it's former staff of mine and of course they're people who support me. they wouldn't put money into i a p.a.c. if they didn't support me. with regards to the ads, i haven't seen them. under the law, i can't direct their ads. speaker, hold on a second. i can't direct their ads. if there's anything in there that's wrong, i hope they take it out. i hope everything that's wrong is taken out. let me tell you this. the ad i saw said that you've been forced out of the speakership. that was correct. it said that you had sat down with nancy pelosi and argued for a climate change bill. that was correct. it said that you called the ron paul -- paul ryan's plan to provide medicare reform a right wing social engineering plan. it said that as part of an ethics investigation that you had to reimburse some $300,000. those things were all true. if there was something related

to abortion that was wrong, i hope they pull it out. anything wrong i'm opposed to. but this ain't a bean bag. we come into a campaign and describe the differences between us. but i do think -- >> go ahead, speaker. >> the rhetoric, mr. speaker, i think was a little over the top. >> you any my rhetoric -- >> here's the question. here he is admitting he knows the content about what he says. because he said there were problems in there. >> first he said he hadn't seen it. i happened to see it. i happened to see it. then he recited the specifics of the entire ad almost word for word and ends up by saying like the wrestler who puts the razor blade back in the turnips. this ain't bean bag. get used to it. >> ultimately, the foreign object in this case is a super p.a.c. he claims he doesn't know about and as howard said, he recited the points in the ad. >> of course, it's my former staff. of course it's -- what does that mean, of course, it's my former staff. >> the accusations. >> what it means is that of

course is a fiction. of course it's my ad. we maintain the fiction that it's independent. it's my forper staff that does it. it's legal, but it's fictional. >> that conversation was the high point of this campaign so far in terms of honesty. ended by him basically saying bean bag. you got to take this stuff. is he denying the truth of these ads and then he said maybe there were inaccuracies. >> there was a question about the abortion language in the ad. but newt comes back and says being look, i agree, you have to have broad shoulders to be in the campaign and hey buddy, wait until you get a load of the independent ad about baine capital that will be 27 and a half minutes long. it's all going to be based on the new york times. >> a spokesman, a surrogate for governor romney, the former governor of this state, new hampshire, he supports governor rom mi for president. he was also white house chief of staff for the first president. governor, let me ask you a

particular point here. should candidates be responsible for ads put on the air by their former staffers and friends in their interest? should they be responsible for the content of those ads? >> you guys are reveling and wallowing in ridiculous perception of what's going on. there's a law defining what can and can't be done by those p.a.c.s and all the candidates are following the law. to suggest that governor romney shouldn't know what's in that ad with all the clippings that have been out describing it, come on, stop being ridiculous and get to the point. you guys don't even know you're seeing new hampshire politics. when you think there's something bad about tithing your time to serve, if there's any state that understands that mitt romney going in and serving and giving his time and going back to the private sector is a normal part of the process, it's new hampshire. stop being ridiculous and talk about the issues. the job problems in this country, the need to cut spending and the need to cut taxes. when the --

>> governor, you used the word ridiculous. just repeating the word ridiculous doesn't make it so. i was in iowa and couldn't get away from the ads run by your candidate again and again and again. >> there's nothing wrong with it. >> saturated with negativity and saying he isn't responsible. i'm asking you, is a candidate responsible -- >> he's not responsible. do you know what the law is? >> i know what the law is. we're talking about how laws can be used should a candidate be -- should the candidate -- >> you guys have an agenda that you want to drive and you have no idea what the rules and regulations are. >> you obviously are here with an agenda. okay. let me ask you. >> come on. >> let me ask you one last time. do you think the law is a good law allowing candidates. >> no, the law should be changed. everybody. every candidate agrees the laws should be changed. nobody likes that law. but unfortunately, bad legislation put the supreme court in a position where they had to make that decision. >> okay. gene, i've been watching this campaign. i have yet to hear a call by

governor romney for reform in campaign advertising. >> i haven't heard that either. i'm curious why governor romney -- governor sue new new why did the governor say he hadn't seen the ad if he had? >> well, he has gene. the clips describing what's in the ads. you don't think he reads news clips? don't be silly. >> don't be silly. so you're attesting to the fact he doesn't see the ads before or after they're airing. >> can i ask a question? >> sees the ads. i know he reads the news clippings. >> i don't know why you're skirting theish eye but saying he didn't watch the ads. why are you dodging the issue of responsibility? >> everything that he talked about has been described in the news clips. and if you guys aren't smart enough to understand that, you got a real problem. >> okay. let me ask you, governor. let's lower the temperature for a second. we'll notch it back on my end. he ran against ted kennedy. we agree that was an uphill

battle. not a suicide campaign but i difficult campaign. he took credit for the fact that he forced him to mortgage his game to protect incumbency. he lost that. began running for president. he ran for governor, of course. he served one term. his poll numbers were very low. there was very good reasons to indicate he didn't run for reelection because he wasn't going to get re-elected. what's wrong with admitted he's been a career politician having been in electoral pursuits? why keep pretending he's not a politician? >> you got to decide whether you want to attack him for being a career politician or attack him for all the successes he had as a crier private sector guy. how can you be a career both? you guys don't know which way to go and which way to go after him. he's a career private sector guy that understood how to create jobs, took it to massachusetts for a period of time and went back to the private sector.

now he's running for president. he'd like to take at that talent into the oval office and start creating jobs for america and fix the mess that your guy obama has caused. >> fair enough. your guy too. he's your president as well. let me ask you, governor. let me attest to why this is important. there's a lot wrong with this country, not just js in terms of the economy. we have too much division in the country. we have a country that doesn't trust its own gochlt these are clear fact. what the game is right now in politics and all the candidates are playing,let admit that, to say they're not responsible. everybody from rick perry, everybody is not from washington, everybody is not a politician. everybody is a citizen, everybody is an innocent out there. it is not a ridiculous argument to have over the clear nature of what a person's profession has been. mitt romney has attempted to live his life in politics and has failed on a number of occasions. that's all that's being said by his opponents. you say that's not fair? >> no. what i say is you got to put a

context on it. he took a chunk of his life and went to the olympics. he took a chunk of his life and served in the private sector. he took a chunk of his life and served as governor of massachusetts and now he's willing to take a chunk of his life and be president. there's a hole there. not just one sliver. it's not just a sliver of being a career politician or a sliver of being a career private sector guy. it's a combination of all those things. it's the combination that he brings to the table that -- >> fair enough. good retort. i hear the retort. gene? >> it's an accurate answer. not a retort. >> governor, i wanted to ask you. change the subject a bit. governor romney criticized, has criticized jon huntsman for serving as ambassador to china under president obama. >> right. >> huntsman, today, essentially said, attitudes like that are why the country is divided. does governor romney stick to that, or do you subscribe to that, you having served in the white house yourself that it's

not wise to serve the president when he says -- when he asks you to serve? >> i was a republican that agreed with the policies of my president. if governor huntsman wants to stick by agreeing with the obama policies, then he should carry the burden of having been part of the obama policies. what's more damming to governor huntsman are the fawning letters that he wrote drooling all over the place about obama's policies and him as a leader. that's the biggest burden that governor huntsman carries from his service in china. >> let me ask you, henry kafrt lodge was successful in the new hampshire primary winning back in 1964 having just served and was still serving as ambassador to vietnam under president johnson a democrat. were the voters of new hampshire wrong to make that decision? >> i think the voters of new hampshire today would not make that decision. i think there's a very different climate in the world and i think

that if that situation came up senator lodge, former senator from massachusetts, then ambassador lodge would not do as well. >> unfortunately, i think you'd have to say that huntsman is right when he said to quote -- verbatim, this nation is divided david because of attitudes like that. i think what you just reflected is that we're living in a country that has a very bad attitude to the kind we had back in the very divisive 1960sment that's a bad comment about the nature of the election. >> no, no. people are angry at the policies that are reflected by this administration and they are not supportive of somebody who, in serving that administration, supports those policies. that's what the issue is. it's supporting bad policies. >> okay. thank you, governor. it's always good to have you on. governor john sununu. have a great surrogate for mitt romney. thank you for coming on sir. >> thank you for having me.

let's go to david gregory. moderator of meet the press. let me be the first. it was an electric debate. this was highly charged and you're moderating skills, i think, played a major role in activating the candidates to be their best. i give you that for sunday morning greatness. >> thank you. >> what do you think you learned as a newsman? >> well, i do think the tone was a big role. i think that it was clear from the start both by where i was trying to lead the candidates but certainly where they picked up the ball and ran with it. that they were trying to slow romney down. i mean, they recognize if you were not romney, you had to do something to try to slow him down. as you referred to, the debate about running for politics, for quite a long time, being a career politician, that back and forth. i have to say, there may have been more heat than light. even newt gingrich, who says that romney is unelectable still has some bullet points about what he sees as a moderate

record and i don't know that they sort of line up point to point about what the record actually was for governor romney. but it was very clear that whether it was just process, just argument, there was an attempt to come at him and say you're not for real. you're not authentic as a conservative. you're not authentic as a guy who is an outsider who can pick up the mantle of the republican party and ultimately, you're too compromised to go against president obama. i think that argument was made and i think everybody was ready to come and make that argument today. >> here's howard fie man, david? >> i wondered if there's anything that surprised you. you were right there within a few feet of them. you were asking very tough questions. they were going after each other. what surprised you about either the dynamics or the content of what they said today? >> well, i think what surprised me a little bit is that governor romney, my thought from last night on that other debate was that he was trying to be very cool, trying to be above the

fray. i think he was happy to see that paul and santorum were sparring. i think here he understood, a, that he was very much a target and there was no getting around it. and that he had to fight back. i just saw a lot more fight in him today as a stylistic piece and seeing them up close and certainly at the end there between romney and gingrich. i thought that was striking. here's another point. i do think this is important substantively. politicians go around in the debates and say let's not be superficial. let's talk in great depth, tell the american people what they want to know. instead of answering questions about the painful cuts they're going to make, there becomes an attack on the commentary. or if it was governor perry, really that that's the answer he's going to surprise republicans by calling for a balanced budget amendment. i don't think that's bucking the orthodox i of the party. i don't think we learned a lot about how these candidates can do what bush and obama were unable to do and that's actually

change the way washington works to get results. i think they have to bear in mind, people expect results and expect things to be accomplished. that's not happening in washington. >> david, i think in closing, i want to congratulate you again on the substance in this case. i think you got a lot out of them in terms of means testing. the wealthy. they seemed to chime in there. that's a tough one for republicans to hear. i thought they were all very forthcoming in that regard. david, congratulations on an amazing performance. >> thank you very much, chris. >> a lot of substance we'll get out of this as we study the transcript. thank you, sir. thank you howard, my colleagues and lore and eugene robinson of course from the post. more analysis from us. you're watching msnbc's coverage. what a great morning for nbc and msnbc. we're talking about the republican presidential debate just held here in manchester new hampshire just two days before the new hampshire primary.

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first of all with respect to governor romney, there were a lot of people tuned in this

morning. and they're confused after watching this political spin up here. i was criticized last night by governor romney for putting my country first. i just want to remind the people here in new hampshire and throughout the united states that i think -- [ applause ] -- he criticized me when he was out raising money for serving my country in china. yes, under a democrat. like my two sons are doing in the united states navy. >> i just think it's most likely that the person who should represent our party running against president obama is not someone who called him a remarkable leader and went to be his ambassador in china. >> this nation is divided, david, because of attitudes like that. [ applause ] >> i think that's an historic retort. thanks for joining us. alex wagner is host of now which airs every weekday at noon eastern time. exactly at noon. you're a young commentator and analyst in the news.

first of all, i want to hear your reaction. >> it was my favorite moment of the debate. i thought huntsman was incredibly strong. he's been hammered and over again for having served as ambassador to china. the response was eloquent and of a peace in terms of new hampshire what the voters want there panned to some degree what the country thinks. is it such a black mark on his record that he served in the administration? i don't know why all of a sudden we talk about the ideas of public service and serving in government is a bad thing and being a politician is a bad thing. here's a guy with incredible foreign policy experience. yes, he served under a democratic president. but the huntsman question has been a huge head scratcher for me. it's great to see he's rising in polls and he answered that with confidence and spoke truthfully. >> here's a man with unique experience in china, the most trading partner we'll have. speaks man dar in, can do a job that few other public officials in our history could have done

having that language ability. he's asked to give that unique training and experience to the country in the interest of the country and he accepts it. >> i will say, huntsman is not done himself a service in some areas in terms of appealing to -- in the debate. the constantly dropping chinese phrases is a little dork i and embarrassing. i think -- >> it wouldn't hurt him on the democratic side. >> you're correct. i think huntsman biggest problem is he came out of the gates and was so gung-ho about being a moderate outside of the mold of the republican, wearing the jean jacket, riding the motocross across the desert and talking about captain beef heart and turned off everybody who was ready to dismiss him because he served under president obama. that's to some degree why he hasn't gotten traction. >> where 40% of the country

wants to get i -- some in the worst way, there's a lot of hatred out there, what do you think it will do to him in terms of coming out on the eve of the new hampshire primary. will it get him votes to be a serious man in the middle sm. >> i think it works in new hampshire. in south carolina, it's dirty politics, it's going to be nasty down there. can jon huntsman get his head above water? it remains tbd. stay with msnbc for our coverage of the republican presidential candidates debate just held. in manchester, two days before the primary. it's gotten hot. they're going after romney, dirty ads, the works. it's finally come to the high noon here in new hampshire. we'll be right back. piro.obert

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charmin ultra soft has extra cushions that are soft and more absorbent. so you can use four times less versus the leading value brand. ah. [ female announcer ] using less never felt so good. we all go... why not enjoy the go with charmin ultra soft. what a morning. welcome back to msnbc's coverage of the debate this morning. the one conduct wd facebook. we're at the headquarters in manchester, new hampshire. tuesday night, in two days, i'll be covering the first in the nation, we'll all be covering the first in the nation primary. chuck todd, msnbc's political director joins us from concord. here in manchester with me is ed schultz, host of the ed show on msnbc and the host of the last word, lawrence o'donnell. so before my colleagues talk, let's go right now to chuck

todd. chuck, what a debate. what an amazing change from last night. these candidates were turned on by something this morning. maybe it was our colleague, david gregory, but they were ready to fight. >> i think you had a couple dynamics going onment number one, when you realize there's going to be two debates this close together. the last one, probably going to be the one that's going to get the most attention. that's the last word. that's your last chance. i think rick santorum, in particular, and then newt gingrich followed suit. i think what was interesting was when david opened the debate and gave the opening there to speaker gingrich to go after governor romney, he didn't do a very good job. rick santorum got his shot and went at him and it woke up newt. the two of them jockeyed for the position to show themselves as the chief challenger, the chief conservative anti-romney in this. but it's still sporadic this group attack on romney. none of them have been able to

sustain it in any debate, even this one. yes at the end, i think gingrich got one last lick in a little bit. but he had to take his own incoming. because he's got a tough, hypocritical position to defend about going off romney on super p.a.c. and his is clearly going to do pretty much the same thing now that they have some money to do it. ultimately, at the end, romney deflected the best that he could. got dinged up a little bit but nothing that seems to knock him off. where did they hit on his conservative credentials? where did they hit him that's going to upend him and make south carolina harder today than it was yesterday? and i think when you look at it in that sense, i don't know if they were able to do enough yet to make inroads in south carolina. >> yeah, chuck. let me try this. they may have take -- they didn't take the armor off his back but it's off his front. he's going into a general election if he wins the nomination against an incumbent

president claiming to be the innocent, the outsider, the pious citizen watch the disorganization of government, coming in off the bench. these guys said no way, you've been a p for years. cut the baloney. isn't this going to be -- as they plot this guy's demise come november? >> i think it could be useful to a santorum or gingrich who both of them have been taking this, you guys are part of the washington problem and they're going hey, wait a minute, you've been a career political campaigner. you may not have been a career office holder, but a career politician the second half of your life. in that respect, they were able to get that deflection. one other person, let me bring them up. granted, i'm grading on a curve. after 14 sub par debates, at least jon huntsman had an above par debate. you know, he at least got a couple of retorts off. was able to hit him. if he didn't do it now, there

was no other shot to do it. but for the first time you saw some life in huntsman, in his belief of trying to run as the mccain maverick here. he still doesn't know how to do it. i still think there's a charisma problem that he has in sort of owning the screen when he gets his moment. john mccain always figured out how to grab his moment when the camera was on. huntsman struggled with that. give him credit. he got a couple of moments and for the first time set up a contrast with romney and even suckered romney into attacking him which is really always your goal when you're going after the front-runner. >> yeah. you always want to attack from a defensive position which he did. this nation is divided david gregly because of attitudes like that. a punch to the gut. i'm looking at the polls we'll be talking about that with the colleagues. there is evidence that huntsman

is moving up past second place. is that good enough to keep him in the race? the new poll by the american reself-search group shows huntsman in second. 17 points with ron paul at 16. if he can edge out ron paul and go into a clear second knocking out santorum and gingrich in the bargain, does he go anywhere after he gets out of new hampshire? chuck todd? >> i think the game is 25%. any of these guys gets 25% here in new hampshire. i think that's a number that gives them this clear-cut, hey, i finished second in romney's home turf. i don't have a lot regard for that poll, arg. their reputation is shaky at best. there's other numbers out there indicating it's a little more muddled. that paul still has a sustained sort of -- so i would be careful here. i think huntsman, look, if he can't finish second after living here, i don't know -- i don't know how he moves on. i can tell you what the huntsman campaign told me, they're going to south carolina because they believe the game is this.

deny romney victories. you got to deny him south carolina and florida because then you stretch out the fight. the longer the fight goes, the more they might find their opportunity. the real fear here for this entire field is that not only is romney win here by a sizable margin but he goes on and wins south carolina. he could win by eight votes and it's over if he wins south carolina. >> let's take a look at another poll with more use to it. more credit to the suffolk poll we've been watching for days now. mitt romney is still with a sizable lead, no surprise at 39. a bit higher than the other poll. ron paul, however shall has second at 17. huntsman at 11. but still in this case, chuck, huntsman has overtaken newt and santorum. what do you make of that? >> i think that's interesting. the santorum momentum stopped. on a tracking poll, you never want to look at the actual result. you want to look at the trend line. santorum had this great trend line going. it was moving two or three points a day in that poland then

frankly, right on cue to that horrible campaign day that he had here, where he was interrupted by okccupiers, got into an argument about gay rights with a high school student. that horrible campaign day that he had coincides with that dip all of a sudden and his momentum stopping. i don't think that's a coincidence in that regard. >> santorum having a hard time. thank you, chuck todd at the debate site. let me about go to ed schultz and lawrence o'donnell. let me give you a shout out of the barrel coming at this. i think it was a hell of a debate. i think david gregly did a great job. they needed somebody to say, go at it, guys. >> two different debates from last night and today. we have substance in the first 30 seconds of today's debate. i think romney is the guy that has been the conventional wisdom shall he's the guy to beat. why have they tab en so long to go after him? if they had been doing this for

a month, we might have a different poll in new hampshire. >> the answer, they're competing for? >> they shouldn't be. if they're of their conviction and they believe that they should be president of the united states, they should be going after the lead and trying to convince people. i don't get a sense from any of the candidates that they're doing that. i thought that romney showed his cards today. who he is. his dad told him that if he couldn't make his mortgage payment, maybe he shouldn't be running for office. does that mean only rich people run for office. i think that's a snapshot to how he thinks on personal policy, on the middle class. on all of those things. that was very revealing about how he thinks. i believe that romney is still the guy to beat. he's got a lot of points to give right now. who finishes second, i don't know if that matters right now. >> your value system, you're attaching to the guys. the market beats democracy he believes. santorum believes religion beats the constitution every time. >> true. but santorum is the same guy that was in iowa. he's just played different up

here. he wore the plaid shirt in iowa better than the industrial shirt here in new hampshire. for some reason, he's had a couple of missteps. last night at the debate, you could tell that he was standing in a different position on the stage. he didn't feel comfortable for most of the debate. today he was better and got his sea legs and got after romney. >> what's happening here, lawrence? >> one thing that happened last night. after the debate, i said this is the best thing that could happen to david gregory's debate. last night was the most boring debate and the candidates knew it. they were leaving the stage knowing i blew this one. everybody except romney of course who is there to run up the clock. they had no choice but to come in this morning and go to work. >> what did you make of the topic selection last night? >> this is a big mistake. it has nothing to do with moderators. if you've been in campaigns and seen how candidates are coached going into a debate. it's never anything to do with the moderators. you go in there to fight or you don't. it's like saying the boxers were waiting for the referee to let

them fight. it doesn't -- >> no i meant that -- do you think the focus on birth control and abortion was overdone? >> i'm telling you, i don't care what the question is. if they ask them a question about foreign policy and he wants to talk about abortion, he will. he'll give you one sentence on your iran question and go to -- >> that's how we're trained to do it. here's mitt romney trying to rise above the fray by attacking obama. his standard tool. over the state of the economy. that's what he does you say he should do. he ignores his opponents and goes for the president. here he is. attack up. >> when you have an administration that tries to raise taxes and has on businesses, when it puts in place obama care that's going to raise the cost of healthcare for businesses, when they stack the national labor relations board with labor stooges, which means that the policies relating to labor are now going to change dramatically in a direction they find uncomfortable, when you have obama care that place more

mandates on them. done frank, which makes it harder to make loans. all of these things create a reality of a president who has been anti-investment, anti-jobs, anti-business and people feel that. if you want to get this country going again, you have to recognize that the role of government is not just to catch the bad guys. important as that is. it's also to encourage the good guys. >> all right. >> to return america to a land of opportunity. >> you notice the kind of constriction in the personality of romney? this is nothing new. when anybody interrupts him, he has a weird kind of school teacher's manner of a procter. >> he's a hand slaerp. >> he doesn't like it. it's like when that reporter asked him surprising questions, he began crossing his legs and everything. lawrence, is this something that the smart guys in the white house are seeing in the game films? this guy is uncomfortable with surprise, with novelty. he wouldn't be a woody allen fan, this guy. he wouldn't be looking for the surprising thing in life. >> the smart guy in the romney

campaign, stuart stevens have been working with him since the first moment with brett bayer and you saw him try to rectify it by going on other fox interview shows. he knows he has this problem, they know he does. >> how would you describe it? >> it's exactly what you said. if it isn't going -- it's like he's the chairman of the board and some new board member who is not supposed to speak in this meeting said something about the stock price that made everyone uncomfortable. it's -- >> speak to your direct report, young man. >> exactly right. it's this -- i can't believe this is happening to mheisen sayings that you get. >> labor stooges. i thought you would have heard that word stooge. there's a guy declaring war, admittedly labor is not what it was under george mean i. but it exists. why did he pick a fight labor on the right, the work issue? >> one of them came out for a national right to work law. >> they love it.

>> it is. when he says stooges, all wage earners in america are stooges. eventually that's going to hurt him with independent voters. there's a lot of independent voters that are wage earners. >> the guy you've been sago owe couple nice things about santorum. stop saying middle class. middle income. drop the class. this idea of class is anti-american. >> some people around president obama are concerned about the term middle class because it sounds like it kind ofville fies people who make a hell of a living in this country. they're pivoting greatly to income disparity. they want to do the total picture of it. i thought santorum from a conservative standpoint made a valid point. that's their argument. we don't want to divide up. we want to unite. the way the income disparity has gone in this country, you can't avoid working class, middle class and the privileged. >> we'll get back to that. ed schultz, we'll be back with

ed schultz and lawrence o'donnell. you're watching the coverage of the exciting presidential debate this morning in manchester, new hampshire. just two days before the big primary coming up this tuesday. >> it was governor romney who made the point to a young person who approached him. if he were president, he or she would have a job. if president obama is in a second term, he will not have a job. isn't that the thing that makes people angry. >> i don't think that's an easy answer. i think that's a statement of fact. ♪ [ male announcer ] when you're a true fan... [ exhales ] ...there are no sick days. [ crowd cheering, screaming ] vicks dayquil. defeats 5 cold & flu symptoms. [ snoring ]

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i realize the red light doesn't mean anything to you because you're the front-runner. [ laughter ] -- but can we drop a little bit of the pious baloney. level with the american people.

you've been running at least since the 1990s. >> wow. pious baloney. that ripped the scab off, didn't it? we're back in manchester two days before the new hampshire prima primary. we'll get reaction from the chairwoman of the democratic national committee. u.s. congresswoman debbie washburn. first, news. andrea mitchell has been talking to rick santorum and ron paul. she's with us right now from the debate site in concord. andrea? >> rick santorum heading to south carolina with much more aggressive today as you know. he's fallen severely behind in the daily tracking poll as you know, the suffolk tracking poll. he's insisting that he can still be competitive here. they're boat defensive. not ron paul, rand paul. both defensive that they can stop the mitt romney juggernaut really from going on. but it seems as though even though mitt romney has lost some elevation coming into this

debate and now we don't know how it's going to play coming out of this debate. he's down to 35. lost eight points, chris, since last tuesday and ron paul is gaining momentum. rand paul said he would not totally rule out a third party run by his father because his father never says no to anything. he seemed to indicate that that's not in the cards and that after south carolina, if mitt romney is still way ahead, that they're going to fall in line. he said that mitt romney has to earn the tea party support, earn the support of the very independent ron paul supporters. but he's certainly indicating that the party needs to come together. i also questioned him about iran. iran has been so much more aggressive about the strait of hormuz in the last 24 hours. according to ron paul, theris still time to talk to iran and that his father has the best position on that. his view is that newt gingrich and ron paul are the

competitors. that rick santorum has fallen behind chris? >> andrea, thanks for joining us. weave the chairwoman of the democratic national committee. i thought i saw an opening for your candidate shall the president of the united states in the undressing, if you will of the front-runner. the dishonor with which they treated him. they didn't treat him as a designated hero yet. like the phrase andrea made on behalf of one of the candidates there. they're taking off of him his main claim to fame which is he's an innocent. he's a man of the business world, a man who is not part of our political wreckage right now. not to be blamed for the divisiveness. a man clean as a whistle. they said no, you ran against ted kennedy and lost. you would have been defeated for reelection as governor of massachusetts so you skipped out. you are just another pou. you've been running for the presidency. another wannabement you're as

ambitious as us. no cleaner than we are. can they take that back come tampa time and say here's the answer to our problem, clean off the bench, mitt romney. can they take it back? >> in the immortal words of newt gingrich. the pious baloney has been exposed. mitt romney has been a political wannabe for a very long time. and the only reason that he hasn't been a career elected official is because he was unsuccessful in that endeavor. i mean, the important thing i think for tuesday zeroing in on a couple days from now is that why isn't mitt romney over 50%? this is as close to him home state as you could be? he has a family home here. he's only in 30s. there's a lackluster, no enth e enthusiasm on the republican side. the guy spent the most to only beat the guy who spent the least

by eight votes. there is a remarkable lack of enthusiasm. when you have no conviction like mitt romney has and you don't stand for anything, no one wants to put new the white house. >> do you see, congresswoman, newt gingrich beating on the stump strong for mitt romney? >> it would be hard to imagine that newt gingrich would be enthusiastically embracing mitt romney. >> this could be a lingering problem for the romney camp. let say he wins, he still has points to give here in new hampshire. he wins south carolina. andrea said about rand paul saying it's -- how can newt gingrich get in line? >> well, i think that, because they've all been really moving so far to the right and trying to out right wing each other, bear hugging the tea party, i mean, they'll have to choose their masters. for general, how do they climb back to -- >> it's all good for the president sh. >> how about predatory?

is that a word you guys can use? newt gingrich said predatory in his business practices running a chop shop. >> the general election will be about who has been fighting for the middle class, who has been fighting to get the economy turned around and not make success only something possible for the wealthy. >> is mitt romney a job creator or job destroyer? >> he's a job cremator. that's the term i think -- >> his equity firm is mainly the kind of firm we understand. they go into a company, get rid of the management. clean it down, reduce the cost, make it indebted and the company crashes six month or a year later but they've made their money. >> that's the kind of experience we want in the white house? that's what he's proud of? if that's his economic experience contrasting with president obama, i'm looking forward to a general election. >> that's where i think the other republican candidates have missed on romney. they're afraid to say he's outsourced. that's what he has done. he's shipped these jobs to other

countries. >> he's deliberately bankrupt companies, shipped jobs overseas, fired people for profit. one of his partners said i never thought of what we did as job creation. our primary was to make money for the stockholders. >> in brings us to a south carolina problem. they tifd on election tiles for many years. they lost the textile industry. >> because they stole it from new england. >> probably long-term, there was no way to compete with india with labor costs and all of that. i had a great half hour yesterday, best half hour of the weekend on the phone with senator fritz holgs, 90 years old, in south carolina. >> good for you. >> romney is going to come in there he tells me. romney is going to win. but the republicans will not be talking about what south carolina wants to hear about. but he does think it's too late for anyone to make a move in south carolina against romney and that romney is going to pull it off. >> that has had the history of

picking the republican nominee. let me ask you about a tone tonight. huntsman, interesting guy. i've been curious about why he's running in this party. the republican party of 2012 is not a huntman party. he's more a party of bill scranton or rockefeller. he said something tonight that i think my wife -- i'm sure my kids will in the. he came back at romney. where romney scolded him for having served a democratic president, a democratic president. as our ambassador. america's ambassador to china. given his tremendous background shall his language skills, his ability to serve our country, he knocked him for that, in fact scolded him. he came back and said, he was talking to david gregory the moderator. this nation is divided david because of attitudes like that. the audience which is very partisan. they're picked for that reason. tremendous round of reaction for that. even among parties or republicans who are here as activists. they want to hear the tone of unity. how does president obama at the same time he has to bring down a

hard charging opponent, a challenger, who is going to come out hammering tongue, how will he do that and unite the country and come back into office as a second termer with a country not of political wreckage? how does he do it? >> mitt romney is doing it for him. the other thing that's telling, he talked about his father's advice. you should never run for office if you really need the job to pay your mortgage. that means only wealthy people should run for office? he was glad that ted kennedy had to take a second mortgage out on his house, that was his accomplishment for running against him. corporations or people in we shouldn't do anything to help people stay in their homes sm. >> a good illogical point. you're very good at it. that's why you're chairwoman of the party. how do you maintain presidential tone? this election will be held, there will be a winner. i've been through this 50 times, i think, the other guy is no good, i'm great, i'm super. you go back and he hates your

guts. more division, every cycle is worse. how does this president do something he hasn't done yet, unite? >> time and again, president obama has attempted. he's been the grown-up in the room, been the leader and tried to get the republicans to come to the table and work with him and compromise. they've refused because they care about just one job, his, and democrats care about american jobs under president obama. >> applauding government service. they were applauding serving the condition tri. there were a couple of other moments with serving the country that huntsman won with this audience big time. they were asked last night what would you be doing

while mitt romney stands silently and no one raises the question about him spending vietnam war in france with a string of -- >> i think it will come up in the general. people will raise it. thank you, congresswoman. we're going to be watching florida at the end of this shah bang in south carolina. >> come on down. end of the month. >> a big diverse state as we've learned during the late great recount. lawrence o'donnell, my colleague, thank you ed schultz. i want to thank them. this is msnbc's coverage of the republican presidential candidate debate. exciting debate in new hampshire two days before the primary. we'll be back in a minute. [ female announcer ] new crest complete multi-benefit plus deep clean.

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welcome back to manchester and msnbc's coverage of the republican presidential candidates' debate this morning. we're joined by national affairs editor for new york magazine and msnbc political analyst and jennifer dunn, a fellow with the eisenhower institute and huffington post contributor. i want to start with jennifer. you guys are so grounded here. the polls, what do they tell us? we figure romney is holding stong to high 30s, maybe low 40s still. but probably high 30s, maybe at 35. but the big cue for all of us and the headline out of here is who is coming in second. >> yeah. >> can anybody beat ron paul for the second spot as you see the trends? >> if anybody can, it's jon huntsman. it's coming across as authentic, someone who is an outsider. coming across as someone who

doesn't have that much charisma, has the maverick tendencies. he's been here 160-plus times. he can erode romney's authenticity. when romney sundays super p.a.c. ads and looks like a snake for disowning them, huntsman is kay i'm not doing that. i'm doing the town hall meetings. we're also looking at the number of undecided voters now. they were up from 15%. i think it could be double that. i think we're going to see romney's vote erode. >> it will go to the hot guy. the new guy. >> the new guy. >> if huntsman wins here and comes in second, which we call a win at it this point, what i find refreshing approximate it, being in the business of political argument so much of my life. he was able to score with that wonderful retort to romney. the front-runner. saying romney scolded him for having taken a position as ambassador to china under a democratic president and said this nation is divided because of attitudes like that. it was chilling.

it was a line almost right out of the mccarthy hearings. one of the great retorts. >> and true. and true. look, you know, i watch the debate as you did, chris. i'm always watching my e-mail as i'm looking at these debates and seeing what the campaigns are sending me in terms of their retorts and their opposition research. my inbox throughout this entire debate was flooded by stuff from the paul campaign attacking jon huntsman. never had that before at any debate. that tells me that the poll people are concerned that jon huntsman is rising and poses a threat to paul in second place. had there have been some polls showing him rising faster. >> are would he be rising? because of the rejectionist attitude. live free or die. don't give me your bull, your baloney. >> people saying, you know what, i'm an independent voter. i might even be a democrat registered as an independent. they make up over one-third of the electorate in new hampshire. these are the people carrying signs at paul rallies.

they're showing up for huntsman. these are the people who know romney and moved out of massachusetts. >> it's why we love new hampshire guys. i want to cue you up. it's why we love new hampshire. ike came out nowhere. mccarthy showed up johnson. the state where reagan come back from the dead. it's a state where henry cabot lodge can win. there's a thrill because it does it, it sticks it in the eye of the big shots in the media and says you think what's going on is going on. i got something for you. >> that's an awesome history. the one you left out. think about 2008, hillary clinton and barack obama. they say people -- >> i owe to to her. that was a brilliant upset in the face of a huge victory in iowa. >> they always a here, new hampshire doesn't pay attention to iowa. they do. it doesn't follow iowa. what it often does is looks at what happened in iowa and says, we're not -- we don't want to listen to them. we want to reject that.

>> let's do this exchange. we're were talking about between jon huntsman who served as a.m. bass dore to china under president obama and also for the american people and mitt romney. >> first of all, with respect to governor romney. there were a lot of people tuning in this morning and i'm sure they're terribly confused after watching this political spin up here. i was criticized last night by governor romney for putting my country first. i just want to remind the people here in new hampshire and throughout the united states that [ applause ] -- he criticized me when he was out raising money for serving my country in china. yes under a democrat. like my two sons are doing in the united states navy. >> i just think it's most likely that the person who should represent our party running against president obama is not someone who called him a remarkable leader and went to be his ambassador in china. >> this nation is divided david, because of attitudes like that.

[ applause ] >> stirring. >> it's a good new hampshire moment. putting my country first. john mccain reference there. the mccain theme that he ran on in 2008. very effective in new hampshire. this analogy between his service in the obama administration being called to an important post, to represent the country in china and be strategic concerns, economic concerns and the analogy to the military service, that's something the hunt man campaign wanted to do. they've been waiting for the moment to make that argument. romney, by attacking him last night, gave him away in a high-profile setting to drive that argument they've wanted to do since the race in june. >> by the way, that's called an attack from a defensive position in politics. it works. >> it works. >> that's why the white house is probably scared of jon huntsman. >> let the other guy take the cheap shot at you and you come back and everybody root for you. there you go again, mr. president it works. thank you, what a pro.

>> you reminded me of hillary clinton's amazing upset pastime. >> jennifer donahue, an expert on these environments. coming back with more from manchest manchester, you're watching hardball -- i'm sorry. you're watching coverage of the republican candidates debate two days before the new hampshire primary. our science teacher helped us build it. ♪ now i'm a geologist at chevron, and i get to help science teachers. it has four servo motors and a wireless microcontroller. over the last three years we've put nearly 100 million dollars into american education. that's thousands of kids learning to love science. ♪ isn't that cool? and that's pretty cool. ♪ diarrhea, gas or bloating? get ahead of it! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day helps defend against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me!

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so why do banks do it ? hello ? hello ?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello ? ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. we're back with the coverage of the republican presidential candidates debate this morning up here in manchester. we're live as well from the state just two days before the new hampshire primary. david is here from the director of the suffolk political research center. it's great to have you on. we've become studented with you. your polling, we want to know about the movement the last couple days. can you project who is likely to show us something tuesday night here in. >> the only candidate that's gaining is huntsman right now. romney dropped off from 43 to

now today, 35. so huntsman is really the only candidates that has momentum. earlier in the week, santorum had four consecutive days up. he went from 3% to 11. now he's back down to 8. he's kind of peaked out. >> let's talk about hunsman. a tremendous turn this morning. are there moderate republicans who may be roused by his call for moderation and comedy this morning? >> he has momentum and also standing among what they call independents or undeclared voters. he's getting 17% of the voters. the problem is the flip side on registered republicans, he's only getting 7%. >> what about the undecided, sa 15%. who are undecided? >> they're moderates. virginter he torrey for somebody like hunts man. what do they tend to do at the end? do they look for the surprise?

does new hampshire like to shock the country? you make news up here. the live free or die state. you like to say you think you know what's going on, listen? >> there are similarities and differences. what santorum did in iowa is what huntsman is doing in new hampshire. but you're right, they like to play a contrairian. they've done so with huntsman. >> we'll follow you in florida. among the great moments in the debate was this shot by newt gingrich at mitt romney. let's listen. >> i realize the red light doesn't mean anything to you because you're the front-runner. [ laughter ] but can we drop a little bit of the pious baloney. level with the american people. you've been running at least since the 1990s. >> let's bring in u.s. congressman bob walker. he's a gingrich supporter and long time ally.

this is the old newt we watched on the floor much the man in the colloquy who could respond to anything with a ripping retort. there he is, i don't think pious baloney was on his man. what do you think about ripping the scab off this notion that romney is a citizen businessman who has occasionally shown interest in public office? >> what we saw today is that newt is a strongly contending for this nomination and that what was clear in the debate today is that mitt romney can't take a punch. and i think the romney people are very, very upset about the outcome because they realize that their guy didn't do very well today. >>let go to the character of the debater of romney. romney does seem to have a problem. anything that's out of the ordinary. if a candidate interrupts him, he's indignant and plays scolding proctor kind of like

problem that can't react quickly to a shot and therefore, somebody like newt gingrich who is quick on his feet can continue to take him apart. >> this comes to the question of electability. the whole campaign of mitt romney has been about his electability. what we saw today is a candidate with a hard time going on debate stage with a barack obama in the fall and carry forth the republican message. first of all, he's not really a conservative republican that can carry that message. and secondly, what he showed today is again, somebody like barack obama, he is going to have a very, very difficult time standing up for our principles. >> what do you think the other candidates would say if they were all asked, is mitt romney a conservative? do you think they would all agree he's not? all the men on the stage? >> i think most of them would. i mean i can't speak for everybody. but i think the record is pretty clear, he's called himself a moderate. the idea he's calling himself a

conservative now is something different from what he was saying a few years back. when in fact, he was trying to be elected in a liberal state. so part of the problem here is that no one is quite certain exactly where he does stand on some of these issues. >> well, thanks to your candidate -- thanks to jon huntsman and santorum, it was an interesting and bracing debate this morning. thank you for coming on. former congressman bob walker. howard fineman and eugene robinson join us for a final verde think on what happened today and last night. this was a saturday night and sunday morning as they once said in the movies. we'll get a verdict on both event. here from the convention center in new hampshire. ♪ home was an airport lounge and an ipad ♪ ♪ made sure his credit score did not go bad ♪ ♪ with a free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ app that he had ♪ downloaded it in the himalayas ♪ ♪ while meditating like a true playa ♪ ♪ now when he's surfing down in chile'a ♪ ♪ he can see when his score is in danger ♪

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most likely the person that should represent our party representing against barack obama is not somebody that would call him a remarkable leader and went to be his ambassador in china. >> this state is divided, david, because of attitudes like that. >> makes you proud. we are back, and of course joining us is jean robinson as well from the washington point. we have two of the greats with us right now. you are always trying to pick up on important remarkable moments,

and i think that was one. >> one of them was that one, towards the beginning of the debate, and the other was at the end of the debate when they went at it on the question of whether mitt romney is the guy he says he is. this debate was about mitt romney. if i were mitt romney, i would be concerned right now. things break late and they happen at the end, and they may want to make a statement that surprises everybody and do something different from iowa, and that's why if i were from mitt romney, and i know, they are out on attack from the press, and they are showing nervousness now. >> your thoughts on what happened this morning? >> i thought it was a great debate this morning. we saw more of the real candidates than i think we have seen in most of the 14 previous debates. newt gingrich calling what mitt romney was saying pieious

baloney. there's a deli here as we speak working on a bias baloney sandwich. and what we need to do if they are going to play in the race is slow them down. i think we have a shot at it. >> all i can say, i am not saying he's going to lose by any means, but i have seen these big leads evaporate like snow in the sunlight here in new hampshire. >> they went after him for being a fraud. they claimed you are as much as a politician as we are, and secondly, you have not stood behind your commercials. you spent millions of dollars destroying one of your opponents, and i think they

forced him today to put his name behind it. you started to dissect the very points he was making -- >> he said of course they're my former staff and supporters who are funding the independent -- >> and of course they are mistakes. >> exactly. he knew chapter and verse after having said he had not seen the ad. that's the right attack. >> here's the problem for mitt romney. they have packaged mitt romney as a tough as nails attack dog guy that is not a politician, who, you know, who is going to be proud and unapologetic about it, which he was today, and that among other things goes against

who mitt romney really is and what his appeal is. his appeal early on said, you know, barack obama is a good guy, instead in order to trying to win in conservative elect tore ruts, i think they are turning mitt romney into something he isn't. in politics, was know, chris, you have to be who you are. >> he also prefers formality. he dresses formally and careful in the way he presents himself, and he doesn't feel comfortable in a surrounding of rough necks. >> he every compensates, too. >> he becomes snippy -- >> are you a member of this club? >> excuse me, are you a member of this club?

that's what he seems to be saying. >> for him to be unapologetic about the supposedly independent attack ads, and it just doesn't fit with whatever was appealing about him to begin with. >> romney gets in the mid-30s on tuesday night, let's say, and he will hold at 35, and the escalator will only go down so far, and huntsman rises up to the 20s, and ron paul gets him out of the discussion right now, and paul is fought going to be the nominee, and santorum has not done well, and gingrich has not done well for himself. what happens? >> >> big question. it's perry's alamo. gingrich is play in south carolina, but if he doesn't do here, the possibilities for him become limited.

huntsman in south carolina, maybe, i am not seeing -- i am not seeing it click there. >> nobody, even after all of this real rumble, which we have had this morning, bill not shake -- >> if somebody is going to come in a close second, it's probably huntsman -- >> well, thank you. on tuesday, our coverage begins at 5:00 eastern on "hardball," and we will be on all night with results and analysis in the first in the country primary in new hampshire. our coverage continues in a moment with alex witt. [ male announcer ] the more you lose, the more you lose, because for every two pounds you lose through diet and exercise, alli can help you lose one more by blocking some of the fat you eat.

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