i hope you understand our legitimate, unavoidable impatience. wow, that is "hardball" now, thanks b the ed show starts right now. good evening, americans welcome to the ed show, tonight from new york, first jon hunts

>> you recently said that black americans should demand jobs, not food stamps. you also said that poor kids lack a strong work ethic and proposed having them as work as janitors in their schools. can't you see this is viewed at a minimum as insulting to all americans but particularly to black americans? >> no. i don't see that. >> my e-mail account, my twitter account, has been inundated with people of all races who are asking if your comments are not intended to belittle the poor and racial minorities. you saw some of this reaction during your visit to a black church in south carolina. it sounds as if you are seeking to belittle people. [ audience booing ] >> first of all, the fact is that more people have been put on food stamps by barack obama than any president in american history. >> good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. and you wonder why we ask the question on this program, from

time to time, does the republican party have a problem with race? crowd reactions have been a major story of the republican debates. as you just saw the conservative south carolina debate crowd heavily booed the black moderator, juan williams, and gave newt gingrich a standing ovation for going after him. newt whipped the crowd into a frenzy by ramping up his attack on welfare recipients. tonight the candidates gave the audience red meat by the bucket full. i'm joined tonight by our panel, democratic strategist krystal ball, free speech tv host laura flanders, msnbc political analyst and "washington post" columnist eugene robinson, and msnbc political analyst, richard wolffe. great to have all of you with us tonight. richard, let me go to you first. your thoughts? i thought that tonight they came after mitt romney in a big way on taxes and also his job record, and i must say, i thought he was well prepared and fenced it off pretty well. your thoughts? >> well, they certainly came after mitt romney right out of

the gate there. but i thought his response on taxes, on the tax returns question was terrible. he stammered his way through it. he's trying to project leadership and that he can be president and his best answer on releasing his own tax returns was "time will tell." probably april, who knows? you know, this is not a confident position for someone who should have been seen this one coming and is going to face this question again and again if his tax returns ever come out. >> well, rick perry, governor from texas, knows pretty much he's not going to win this thing, so he thought he'd go on the offensive with mitt romney when it came to taxes. here's the question that we're talking about. >> my income tax have been out every year and newt, i think you're going to let your income tax come out thursday. and mitt, we need for you to release your income tax so the people of this country can see how you made your money. as republicans, we cannot fire our nominee in september. we need to know now.

so i hope you'll put your tax records out there this week so the people of south carolina can take a look and decide if you know we've got a flawed candidate or not. >> laura flanders, is this the best we're going to get out of mitt romney up until tax day? >> it probably is. he sounded like one of those dieters. maybe in april, maybe in june, we'll just see. but really, this was all about looking presidential in this discussion. and i think romney did flub that answer. and frankly, in south carolina, if looking presidential is talking up state's right and the food stamp up on a black man, it was really gingrich who got a bump coming out of today's debate. >> here's romney's response. he'll probably release his taxes. >> i've looked at what's been done in campaigns in the past with senator mccain and george w. bush and others. they've tended to release tax records in april. if that's been the tax tradition, i'm not opposed to doing that. time will tell.

but i anticipate that most likely i'm going to get asked to do that around the april time period and i'll keep that open. >> governor, you will plan, then, to release your tax income records around april? >> i think i've heard enough from folks saying, look, let's see your tax records. i have nothing in them to suggest there's any problem and i'm happy to do so. >> gene robinson, does this put this issue finally to sleep for a while, anyway? >> it doesn't put it to sleep really, ed, but i think he did okay on that question. i don't think he really blew it. they didn't press him that much on it. really, the only people who laid a glove on romney in this debate were jerry of the "wall street journal" who asked him a pretty tough bain capital question and juan williams did ask him an immigration question that kind of put him in a spot. but i thought part of the story of tonight's debate was that the other candidates didn't really go for the jugular on romney, at least, the way they might have. they kind of went after each other. >> i think you're correct there. i agree with you. romney says he created 120,000 jobs.

he's been asked to document the 100,000 jobs that he's created. now it's up to 120,000. here it is. >> four of the companies that we invested in, they weren't businesses i ran, but we invested in, ended up today having some 120,000 jobs. some of the businesses we invested in weren't successful and lost jobs. and i'm very proud of the fact that we learned from the experience. we invested in well over 100 different businesses. >> krystal ball, do the numbers work? >> well, no, they don't. i love the way that he loves to enumerate the 120,000 jobs that occurred after he was at bain, over the course of the entire company's lifetime, and doesn't get into the specifics about any of the jobs that were lost or any of the bankruptcies. it's fuzzy math in the word of a past presidential candidate. >> what about the part where he says, you know, they didn't actually lay anybody off in that paper mill, they just moved them from nonunion jobs to union jobs. >> right, in indiana. i'm sure that comforts the people in south carolina. and honestly, he had to get into

the weeds of what happened at each of these companies, and i don't think that's a good place for him to be. overall, i agree with you. i think he came out of this debate okay, not really bloodied, but having to get into the specifics of each of these companies is not something he's going to want to have to do in the general election. >> what about specifics, richard wolffe? how did he handle the jobs? now we got it, we're up to 120,000 jobs without a whole lot of documentation. what about it? >> well, previously it had just been thousands. his wording actually was pretty clever and concise in the sense that he was being very legalistic. he said he invested in some companies and the companies then created those jobs well before he just said, i helped create 100,000 jobs. so you're seeing him trying to revise and clean up the record there. but on specifics, when he went after the president, he made a major mistake. he said that the president has not opened up any new markets for this country. what happened to the three free trade deals that the president just pushed through congress and signed into law? you know, that's the kind of mistake that, frankly, had

another candidate done this, that people would have been writing, he doesn't know his stuff, he hasn't done his homework. for mitt romney, the guy who knows about business and trade to make that mistake, i think, was pretty amateurish. >> and was that a swipe to say that barack obama has not come up with a jobs plan? what's the jobs bill? >> they all say that. they constantly say, he hasn't done anything about jobs, and if you say it enough, maybe some people are going to believe it. i felt that the conversation between mitt romney and newt gingrich going back and forth on the super pacs is one for the archives. this was a dandy. here it is. >> what both senator santorum and i have have complained about with governor romney's super pac, over which he apparently has no influence, which makes you wonder how much influence he'd have if he were president. i think it is an absurdity, and it would be nice if governor romney would exercise leadership on his former staff and his major donors to take falsehoods off the air. >> mr. speaker, you have a super pac ad. >> and i've -- >> that attacks me. now, just hold on. that attacks me.

it's probably the biggest hoax since big foot. we would all like to have super pacs disappear, to tell you the truth. >> gene robinson, who won that debate right there on the super pacs? >> i think gingrich probably, by a little, just because of the forceful way, you know, he kind of did push back on the super pac thing. but then it just kind of went away. and so no quarry was pursued to the den and then dispatched. everybody was kind of allowed to escape, including romney on that exchange. i just don't think they heard him. >> you know, gene, i think conventional wisdom is this is romney's to lose at this point. i kind of feel like he got out unscathed tonight. in fact, i think he was a little bit far more prepared and seemed much more confident tonight on how he wanted to handle these questions, which i thought were pretty pointed. >> yeah, there were a couple, as richard noted, that he kind of flubbed, but, you know, he had

the look, he had -- he looked the camera in the eye. he looked like a guy who thinks he's beginning to do really well on saturday. and i thought the interesting subtext was santorum versus paul, and rick santorum trying to shave off ron paul votes to get himself into some sort of credible second place in south carolina so that he can continue. and so that would -- that got kind of tough at times. >> and we're kind of playing up the conflict here. i do think this is romney's win -- this is going to be romney's win. we have to keep the horse race kind of mythology going to keep our cable ratings on fox news and elsewhere -- >> but they didn't go after him tonight on the money, they went after him -- >> he came out -- >> -- voting rights, too. >> he came out looking very presidential in the sense that he controlled the questions that came to him, he controlled the answers in the order which he answered them. he did not really suffer any huge blows.

and we've seen in the polls this week, no matter how much we talk about bain, the south carolina republicans are going his way. >> i thought he was put most off balance early on by rick santorum over restoration voting rates for felons, but it was an attack from the left. romney was kind of caught flat-footed in that exchange, but how much will that argument resonate with the voters of south carolina? >> i didn't realize that rick santorum saved the gun industry in this country. you learn something every time you watch these guys. stay with us. we've got a lot more coming up. more debate wrap-up with our panel coming up next. and later on "the ed show," the head of a south carolina steel workers union witnesses mitt romney's bain capital destroy a steel plant in his state. he'll tell us if romney really knows how to create jobs. stay tuned. if you're one of those folks who gets heartburn and then treats day after day... well that's like checking on your burgers after they're burnt! [ male announcer ] treat your frequent heartburn by blocking the acid with prilosec otc.

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coming up, "the ed show" panel picks debate winners and losers next. in psychotalk, rick perry makes

excuses for marines filmed urinating on a dead taliban soldier. and public education under attack in pennsylvania. you will want to see this story. a school district is running out of money because of massive state education cuts. hear from a teacher in the school district. she's working for free. that's later in the show. share your thoughts on twitter using the hash tag ed show. we'll be right back.

welcome back to "the ed show." we continue our live coverage of the republican debate that just ended on fox news. we're joined again by our panelists, democratic strategist krystal ball, free speech tv

host laura flanders, "washington post's" ewe ugene robinson, and msnbc political analyst, richard wolffe. quite the crowd reaction tonight to juan williams' questions. and eugene robinson, you were there. what's your impressions of what you saw and heard? >> well, i'm not actually in the hall, but my impression of what -- that was incredible! you know? i mean, i knew there would be a reaction, but they went after juan in a way that, frankly, recalled the south carolina of a few decades ago and not the sort of new south carolina that we all think we're living in right now. >> and does -- richard wolffe, does newt gingrich think that he's going to gain favor with conservative voters in south carolina with his brash response to juan williams? >> yes. and i hate to say this, but he's probably right. i mean, you're not talking about the general population here, the independents who go up and decide general elections across

the country. yes, this kind of pandering, condescension, just total brushoff of what is a very legitimate concern. you know, the caricaturing of juan williams as being some sort of epitome of a liberal media, that's what fox does every day. he's a fox news analyst, now running for president. yeah, this will work for him. i actually think if you combine it with ron paul's suicidal answer on bin laden, gingrich is the big winner out of tonight. >> well, gingrich tonight also went after the jobless benefits, being linked to a job training program, although we didn't get any explanation of how he would pay for it, but this is how handled it and got a pretty good response on it. >> all unemployment compensation should be tied to a job training program. 99 weeks is an associate degree. i hope that my four colleagues would agree here. tells you everything that you need to know about the difference between barack obama and the five of us, that we wail think work is good and we think

unconditional efforts by the best food stamp president in american history to maximize dependency is terrible for the future of this country. >> nobody there to defend the president. that's for sure. krystal ball, newt gingrich was very effective tonight in throwing out conservative raw meat facts. >> oh, you've got it right. he won the dog whistle primary, if ever anyone did. and you highlighted the booing of juan williams. you highlighted the cheering for the food stamp president comments, which were certainly racially tinged. there was another line early on from rick perry which i found quite shocking. he said that south carolina south carolina is at war with the federal government, and that was another huge applause line in all of this on martin luther king jr. day, i found it quite, quite shocking. >> gene? >> yeah, i would agree with all of that. i think we should just flat-out say, look, there's a racial component, an obvious racial component to a lot of this.

that's the audience they were playing to. and if, you know, it's not a stretch to say that this is, without actually using words that are not used anymore, something akin to race baiting, that they were doing with that whole line of answers and booing of juan williams in that fashion. >> i mean, there's no question. it wasn't just sort of dog whistle, this was wolf pack. >> megaphone. >> this was an extraordinary appeal to the south carolina that still wants to fly that confederate flag over the statehouse. it was an extraordinary display of the most brutal kind of anti-immigrant, anti-black, anti-federal government talk. so you've got the full combination. this was really kind of master piece mlk day performance coming from the gop today in south carolina today. >> there was one other moment too when romney was going into his criticism of president obama. once again, he accused him of

turning this into some sort of european social welfare state. you know, a place that we don't recognize. and that's just an interesting way of putting it. it kind of narrows the "we" and kind of gives you a hint as to what it is that he doesn't recognize about the modern sort of diverse multi-cultural america that we have today. >> and pivoting off of this, i didn't think we would get to the hearing about felon voting rights tonight, but this is santorum asking romney about his super pac and his own position on felons voting. >> governor romney, super pac has put an ad out there suggesting that i voted to allow felons to be able to vote from prison. i would ask governor romney, do you believe people who have -- who are felons, who have served their time, who have extended and exhausted their parole and and probation, should they be given the right to vote? >> governor romney? >> first of all, as you know, the pacs that run ads on various candidates --

>> i was looking for an answer to the question first. >> this is martin luther king day. this is a huge deal in the african-american community. >> i don't think people who have committed violent crimes should be allowed to vote again. >> in the state of massachusetts, when you were governor, law was that not only could violent felons vote after they exhausted their sentences, but they could vote while they were on probation and parole, which was a more liberal position than i took when i voted for the bill in the congress. >> richard wolffe, did we just see rick santorum walk governor romney into a flip-flop? >> he walked him into a perfectly maneuvered flip-flop. i don't think what voters in the republican primary he thinks he's going to get. but full credit to him. he was arguing an important piece of public policy about his record, about governor romney's failure to uphold his own

position, and he tricked him with a debate tactic. a classic debate moment that no one will give him any votes for. >> you know what i took away from that along with what you just said is that maybe in an earlier debate, mitt romney would have lost his cool. tonight, he -- tonight he kept his come know sur on that one. kris taul ystal krystal? >> he's feeling confident. if you look at the optics of that, rick santorum looks like he has the win. he looks like he backs mitt romney into the corner. so they have the optic of rick santorum taking it to mitt romney. >> not much tonight, if anything, on evangelical christians and the power of their vote, unless i missed pit ron paul wants zero percent income tax. he wants to keep all the military bases just bring them home, but he doesn't know how to pay for it. this is one i thought was very entertaining. >> well, we should have the lowest tax that we've ever had, and up until 1913, it was zero

percent. what's so bad about that? >> laura flanders, is that in this hemisphere? >> no, it's not in this hemisphere, but it was interesting to hear the silence around a lot of what ron paul had to say this in the south carolina crowd. kind of surprising given the particularly youthful support he's had in some of the other debates. here you could hear it. it was like a pindrop silence when he talked about about some of the comments he made about defense spending being a waste. this isn't going to get him very far. and i think, you know, the real point here as we're getting back to this question of winners and losers tonight, and i think winners and losers tonight, the big loser is this martin luther king day, are we the american people, and frankly the people of south carolina, who didn't get to talk about what's really going on and what choices their country really face, and the crisis that is happening on military bases, not because of overspending on our veterans and service people, but really on lack of services. >> gene robinson, how's the rest of the week going to unfold?

is there anything more exciting than what we saw tonight, as far as the super pacs? is there any more gloves that could be laid on the leader? >> there's going to be a lot of ads on tv and they'll be tough, but i don't think -- i don't think they laid a glove on him tonight. i think the big loser was ron paul. i think he lost percentage points of his saturday vote tonight with that about bin laden that was just incredible. and it remains to be see whether rick santorum will pick up any of that or if it goes to romney. >> krystal ball, eugene robinson, laura flanders, and richard wolffe, thanks so much for joining us tonight. next in psychotalk, rick perry goes from terminator to urinate urinator. and the deadline for collecting recall signatures is approaching in wisconsin. are governor walker's days numbered?

state democratic chair mike tate and state senator lina taylor will tell us what's up next. i'll be in wisconsin tomorrow.

and in "psychotalk" tonight, governor rick perry defends urinators. he responds to a video reportedly showing four u.s. marines urinating on the bodies of taliban fighters. the u.s. military condemned the action, but rick perry brushed it off, essentially saying, boys will be boys.

>> obviously, 18-year-old, 19-year-old kids make stupid mistakes all too often, and that's what's occurred here. what was really disturbing to me is just kind of the over the top rhetoric from this administration and their disdain for the military, it appears. >> so disdain for the military, so not only does rick perry want to reinvade iraq as he said in debate last week, he's now defending ing ing peeing on corpses. and it's not just the obama administration objecting. a senior commander in afghanistan recent sent a letter to u.s. forces saying, "defiling desecrating, mocking photographing or filming for personal use surrogate dead constitutes a grave breach of the laws of armed conflict." but perry also defended the kids by pointing out of the public urination by historic military figures. >> when you're in war, and history kind of backs up, there's a picture of general

patton doing basically the same thing in the rhine river and although there's not a picture, churchill did the same thing on the siegfried line. >> i had no idea rick perry was an expert on military urination, he completely missed the point. patton and churchill didn't aim their streams at dead bodies. the bottom line here is if these kids are old enough to fight in the marine corps, they're old enough to follow the laws of war. and for rick perry to give them a pass is irresponsible psychotalk. wing we in this audience recognize that this election is a choice of two very different paths. >> another victim of mitt romney's path is coming forward. we'll go back to south carolina, next. public school teachers are working for free in pennsylvania? thanks to failed republican policy. that story, ahead. talking about collecting a million, i don't know that they'll get to that.

>> and scott walker is in for a rude awakening tomorrow. that's when recall signatures are due. the democrats are here with a preview and they may have a few surprises. yourself sometimes cleaning up after your dishcloth? bounty extra soft can help. in this lab test bounty extra soft leaves this surface three times cleaner than a dishcloth. super clean. super soft. bounty extra soft. in the pink pack. so i get claritin clear

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welcome back to "the ed show." mitt romney trying to convince south carolina voters that he knows all about creating jobs. but in reality, all he knows how to do is make the wealthy a little bit richer. as head of bain capital, mitt romney was focused on making money for his investors, even if it meant destroying companies and eliminating jobs. one of romney's targets was the georgetown steel mill in south carolina. bain capital bought mill's parent company, gs industries, for $24.5 million. its investors ultimately walked away with $58.4 million, doubling their investment, better than that. but bain left the company in massive debt. gs industries ended up cutting 1,750 jobs and filing for bankruptcy, count 'em, twice.

the georgetown steel mill was eventually bought by another company and is in operation today, but if uh with fewer employees. romney's campaign involved his involvement with the south carolina plant in the following statement. "bain capital invested in many businesses. while not every business was successful, the firm had an excellent overall track record. these experiences give mr. romney the unique skills and capabilities to do what president obama has failed to do -- focus on job creation and turn around our nation's faltering economy." i'm joined tonight by dr. james sanderson, president of the united steel workers local union 7898 in georgetown south carolina. mr. sanderson, good to have you with us tonight. we keep hearing these stories about bain and mitt romney's involvement. what can you tell us about this? what happened here? what is the public in your opinion need to know?

the first thing i'd like to say is good evening to everybody in the labor movement, the brothers and sisters that also understands the dilemma that we face here in south carolina. south carolina has over 10% unemployment right now, and we are very much in need of jobs. and to hear mitt romney running around this state, talking about that he's a job creator is very disturbing and is not true. he does, indeed, like to fire people, like you already said. we go back to 1997, whenever bain capital became very much involved with our plant at georgetown steel, and he basically just took a lot of profits, assets away from our company and forced it into bankruptcy. >> well, mr. anderson, explain south carolina to us. we look at the polls today, this story over the last three days does not seem to be hitting or hurting mitt romney's campaign at all. in fact, he's moving forward. what about the people of south

carolina? are they concerned about jobs? does this story not resonate request with them? >> absolutely. yes. the good-working people of south carolina are very much concerned about jobs, but they're not very much in tune to the media orrer the way that they are informed here in this state. they have such a whisper campaign when it comes to the media as far as what the working people are told on the news that it's hard to really find out exactly what is going on. just to give you a good example, if you were to go into this state and go to every walmart and stop the customers going in and ask them what do they think the right to work law means, you'd be shocked to find out that 95% of them wouldn't even know what it means. and then to hear them spin boeing as if the right to work law has something to do with the nrlb charge is frightening and playing upon the people's lack of knowledge when it comes to labor law. and i'd say 75 to -- >> yeah, i have to ask you, why is it such republican territory if this is the case?

>> because of the way that they have controlled the people in this state. i think the reason why we are last in education is by design. they do not care for people to be educated in this state. knowledge is power. and once people become educated, then they can make the decision for themselves. but you keep -- but if you keep the people uneducated, then it's easy to control and put them in the direction that you want to control them too. >> what about the governor -- this is nikki haley, talking about the -- actually, defending mitt romney's record at bain. here it is. >> i am proud of all of our republican candidates. i am proud of the people that have taken the time to come and campaign in south carolina. but we have a real problem when we have republicans talking like democrats against the free market. we believe in the free market. this was a man that worked in the private sector 25 years, not

in the government sector, in the private sector 25 years, and he fixed broken businesses. we've got a broken washington that needs to be fixed. >> is the thinking down there going to change? >> i feel that once the people are becoming more engaged and understanding exactly what's going on, i think you'll see a different trend. >> is she an asset to romney? is she an asset to romney? >> no, i do not think that she will be an asset to romney. i think she's going to hurt romney. >> does this -- >> because her. >> does this -- >> her going into office -- >> go ahead. >> when she took office, she basically declared war on the labor movement here in south carolina, which represents less than 5% of the workforce. we have two ports here in south carolina that needs to be dredged, and out of the eight federal legislators that we have in washington, we only have two that's representing us with in that fight. and that is u.s. senator lindsey graham and congressman jim clyburn. those two, if it had been left

up to them, we would have already had our ports dredged in charleston and georgetown. >> do you see any political shifting going on? i mean, the way people think? i mean, how does this affect people who are affected by these facts? >> i think this is very good. i think this is very good and healthy for the state of south carolina. a lot of people are asking questions and a lot of people are understanding exactly what's wrong. that's why the governor, nikki haley, called some of the republicans running for office democrats. well, what she was letting people know, the republicans that he she called democrats understand what the real problems are that the state of south carolina are facing. >> james sanderson, good to have you with us tonight. >> good to be here. >> good to have you with us. i appreciate your time. i'll be in wisconsin tomorrow when the petitions to recall governor scott walker are finally handed over. how many signatures did the democrats get and is he the only one being recalled? stay with us. we're right back.

okay, wisconsin, we go into the next phase. tomorrow's the deadline for recall signatures in that state to get rid of the governor. i'll ask democratic party chair mike tate and state senator lina taylor what we can expect. this is a story that makes my blood boil. you want to talk about infrastructure? later in this program, a pennsylvania school district is so much in trouble that their teachers are working for nothing! just to save the kids' education. you can tweet us at ed show using the hashtag ed show. stay with us.

volunteers collecting signatures to turn into the governor accountability board. democrats held petition parties over the weekend throughout the state to get those last-minute signatures. >> and on the ed show tonight, well, the deadline for collecting recall signatures is almost here. in fact, i'll be in madison, wisconsin, tomorrow after petitions to recall governor scott walker are delivered. i've got to see this. this was a grassroots, boots on the ground effort and it looks like it has been a huge success.

volunteers have collected so many signatures the petitions will be delivered to the government accountability board by truck. as the "milwaukee journal sentinel" reports, state election officials are preparing to accept 300,000 pages of petitions with 1.5 million signatures. governor scott walker acknowledged the recall in an interview with a right-wing website, the daily caller. >> this is why this, my election, which appears to be a recall election, is going to be such a big deal, i think. because this is one of those defying moments not only in wisconsin's history, but i believe as part of the national political landscape, this will be one of those defining moments as well. >> well, only two other governors have ever been recalled in america. let's bring in mike tate, part of the democratic party in wisconsin and lina taylor. great to have both of you with us tonight. it is an ongoing story. you've been at this for almost a year now. i've got to ask you, mike, the "milwaukee journal sentinel" is saying, 1.5 million signatures. is that number correct?

>> that number is not correct. we're not quite sure where they got it from. they may have gotten it from the government accountability board, which has no business releasing any numbers at all. we aren't saying yet how many signatures we're handing in tomorrow. we know that it's 3,000 pounds of petitions that we're bringing over to the government accountability board, but we think it's going to be a pretty impressive number to recall not only governor walker, but the lieutenant governors and several state senators as well. >> you have enough to, you think, to do more than walker? the lieutenant governor and several state senators? >> i believe that we will hand in enough signatures on all of those races from governor on down that an election in the state senate, lieutenant governor, governor will be beyond challenge. >> senator taylor, are wisconsinites prepared for the money that's going to be floating in? i mean, that sound bite right there that we just played that was on the right-wing website, the daily caller, it sounds like governor walker knows that this is going down and he's not going to be able to stop it and he's

been out on the road quite a bit outside the state, raising a lot of money. what's this going to come to, in your opinion? >> there's no question that there's going to be money coming in from all over. i mean, he's had big donors who have been giving to him for a very long time. and so there's no question about that. but i think the, ed, the piece that i can stand on and i believe what mike has just shared with you is that wisconsinites, they may have money, but we have the people, and the people have the vote. and that vote is what's going to matter. and ultimately, i believe that in the end, governor walker will not be our governor. >> now, there's only two other governors in american history that have ever been recalled. and then, of course, this is an election year, big-time, in 2012, november. this is a lot of political activity. mike, do you think people are going to be enthused enough to carry the long haul here in a big year? >> you know, ed, i'll tell you, i got this question a lot, i get this question, were we going to be able to sustain the momentum

and emergency we saw last winter when senator taylor and our brave colleagues went down to illinois to the fight off the collective bargaining, and i don't know, but having watched this unfold, we're gaining momentum. there are people who are getting involved in the process now that weren't involved at all last winter when we had the protests and the capital in every wisconsin city. i think that this is an unstoppable force and that momentum is absolutely on our side. >> senator taylor, are the republicans going to challenge these sergeants? i mean, you've got a lot coming in tomorrow. >> they will. i'm certain. look to challenge them. i hope they keep their word. they've not been good at keeping their word, but they said they could do it within four days. i hope they can keep their wofrd and do it within four days and when we get done, we'll still have more than enough. more than 30% of the people who voted in the gubernatorial election have clearly signed in order to cause these recalls. and when you get done, we're going to go to the ground, it's

going to be boots on the ground. we're going to go and talk to the people and the people are going to come out and vote. so i believe they will challenge them, ed, but in the end, their challenge is not going to prevent the inevitable. they have to deal with the people of wisconsin. these angry badgers will cause them to come out and vote. >> well, these angry badgers are going to have to go through a primary first, aren't they? do you know who's going to be running against scott walker? what's the next step, mike? >> well, and we're some angry packer fans tonight, too, ed. i don't know exactly who's going to run. i do think we are going to have a democratic primary. and i think that, ed, that's a sign of how weak scott walker is, that more than one good democrat has done some research and has come back with a conclusion that they have a path to victory against this guy. >> you bet. mike tate and state senator lena taylor, looking forward to seeing you tomorrow. appreciate your time here tonight. good work is in order. 15 miles outside of philadelphia, the birthplace of the united states constitution, a republican governor is

prepared to let an entire school district die. that's right, die. teachers are making a tremendous sacrifice to fight the closure. and i will be joined by one of those teachers, next. stay with us. when i grow up, i [ male announcer ] you love the taste of 2% milk.

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in a big finish tonight a radical assault on public education is underway in pennsylvania. this story came to me via my radio show. an entire school district could close down leaving thousands of students out in the cold. no plans. the chester upland school district outside philadelphia only has $100,000 left in the bank. republican pennsylvania governor tom corbett slashed more than $8 million from the budget last year. the district relies on state aid for about 80% of budget. it serves one of the most impoverished populations in the state. the district asked the state for emergency assistance. of course the request was denied. cutting public education is a

top agenda for governor corbett. last fall corbett told reporters his number one priority as governor is school voucher legislation. the chester upland district pays more than $39 million a year to area charter schools. the charter school payments, the cut in state aid and massive debt are overwhelming. the school is unable to make payrolls or pay its bills. but teachers and other faculty are working without pay to keep the school running. >> i feel that the governor does not look at the situation the same way that we look at it. they are looking at it from an economic standpoint we're looking at it from a life standpoint. for them it's about the figures. for us it's about students lives. >> i'm joined tonight by linda cook, a regional president with the pennsylvania state education association. and sarah ferguson, elementary school math and literacy teacher

for the chester upland school district. thank you for being with us, i can't believe what i'm hearing and reading and listened to today. linda cook, how is the governor's charter school agenda affected this district? >> well first of all, thanks for getting the story out, ed. the governor's agenda has siphoned funds students and money from the chester upland school district. >> just taking it right away for charter schools and what about the public school kids? >> well, it is ironic the school district was not able to pay their charter school bill, so the state is paying the charter schools, but it won't give the school district money. >> why not? >> i believe it's politics. and the governor trying to his agenda across that he got defeated in november. >> sarah ferguson, why have you decided to work without pay?

and also your fellow teachers? >> well, what happened or does not happen within classrooms across america determines the course of students' lives, and ultimately, it will determine the course of our whole society. we decided to be there as professionals to instruct our students because this is about more than dollars and cents. this is about the course and direction that these young people's lives will take. >> how long are you willing to do this and your colleagues? what is the conversation? >> the conversation is that we're in this for the long haul. we're willing to do this as long as we can, we've gotten tremendous support from our surrounding area, from our unions, and we intend to be here just as long as we can we're in it for the long haul. >> linda, what happens if they want to shut down the school district? could it come to that or is it up to the teachers to keep this thing going, working for nothing? >> it's basically up to the

teachers to keep it going. if the teachers go in and do their jobs, it's going to be very hard for them to shut that district down. and to say that their job is not valuable and the education of the children are not valuable. >> what is the solution here? >> well, the first thing is is that the governor could fund public education. he could stop taking it down, he could stop passing his -- trying to pass his agenda and look at what is valuable in the state of pennsylvania. the public in pennsylvania does not support vouchers. yet he still persists in trying to get legislation across. >> sara ferguson you agree with that, is it voucher issue, that is why you're not being paid to go in and teach kids? >> i believe that's part of it, but our students don't know anything about vouchers, they don't know anything about politics, they don't know anything about mismanaged funds all they know they are coming to school to learn every day and we intend to be there for them.

>> sara, do you see your school district and your teachers as a standard bearer in the fight over public education? i can't believe the story, i cannot believe there is a school district in america where teachers are not getting paid because the state won't live up to their funding obligation. >> if we don't put a stop to this right now, it won't stop with us. there are other school districts that are right behind us. >> in pennsylvania? >> in pennsylvania, yes. and like i said, if we don't put a stop to it right now, it will not stop with us. they could be coming for your school district next. and for your children next. stand up for your children. >> linda cook, is this a union issue, is he trying to break the union here? >> i think he is trying to break public education and i would like to say that the union has set up a fund, a crisis fund for the teachers, and if anybody is interested, they can go to psca.org.