knowing full well that he is the master and originator of the most na fairhouse and nasty language that it's possible to use against anyone. when newt gingrich accused mitt romney of spouting pious bologna, he did so have a position of knowledge because gingrich has been shoveling poisonous bologna for more than 30 years. thank you so much for watching. i'll be back here tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. as voters in south carolina go to the polls. dylan ratigan is next. stay with us

welcome to the bay area here in northern california, home to the controversial site of the oakland san francisco bay bridge. look behind me. those pillars are made of chinese steel. today we'll talk trade, infrastructure, america's relationship with china. but we are not naive. we know it requires investment in america infrastructure. so let's get it on for this friday, january 20th, 2012. good afternoon to you. nice to see you again. i am dylan ratigan. thank you for joining us for day three of our 30 million jobs tour that will be rolling throughout the winter. more on that in a few moments. first, let's deal with the news of the day. we can't get enough of what happened and what didn't happen last night in south carolina. >> no. but i will. [ applause ]

>> more on the political follies including president obama doing reverend al green with our mega panel later. but we are live now here in california's treasure island, smack in the middle of the san francisco bay. behind us, you can see the bay bridge. that bridge links oakland to san francisco, and it is getting a $7.2 billion taxpayer upgrade. it's the biggest public works project in the history of california. and it should be a great opportunity to celebrate and create thousands of u.s. jobs. but guess what? this bridge is being made in china. 3,000 chinese workers received new jobs instead of americans. if that's not enough, those chinese manufacturers are using 50,000 tons of fabricated chinese steel instead of american steel. on this trip, as you know, we

have focused so far on innovation. but to create 30 million jobs, it's the pillars of american industry that need critical investment. and there is no pillar greater than our nation's infrastructure. what's not investment is paying china to build american bridges. we start with thomas hickman, vice president of sales and marketing in iron works at the u.s. company that lost the bid to build the bridge we're just discussing. joining us from his district in west virginia, congressman nick rahal, top democrat on the in a infrastructure bicommittee. all projects financed by our taxpayer dollars as that bridge is here is stamped made in america, made in china. how many jobs and how much work is being lost in this country through the outsourcing of the

manufacturing and labor to build american infrastructure that's being driven by the trading agreements we have that we'll discuss later with china? >> well, dylan, first i commend you for this jobs tour. what's happening on that bridge behind you at a time when so many american workers are desperately looking for jobs is simply appalling. it's outrageously offensive. it's down right wrong. that as you have referenced, american taxpayer dollars are going to provide a full employment for to

work. >> and again, the big thing is if you don't invest, you don't create jobs and right now because china discounts or rigs its, currency to ours, we only tax the airport at 2.5%. it puts a man like you, thomas, a company like iron works and any other american steel company at a disadvantage when it comes to bidding on these contracts. but it gets worse, beyond all that, this bridge was bid for $6 billion. it costs $7.2 billion. we were told it would save

taxpayers $400 million by outsourcing the steel to china. that $400 million has been chewed up and they didn't save anything. it also turns out they said they were going to be faster. instead the chinese steel is 29 months delayed. if you were to be competing again knowing that the actual cost savings didn't exist, if it was up against a $7.2 billion bid, how much more competitive would your bid have been and every other american steel makers' bid have been? >> there's no question had we known these things up front, we would have been more competitive. we would have been able to do this job. the truth is, we would have been able to perform this project within the timelines set up to begin with by the state ofçcibñ california. cal tran wanted this job done sooner. we believe we could have met

those deadlines, even with the changes that occurred due to course in this job. but the sad part here is the job loss. we lost 3,000 jobs over the course of the last five years of u.s. workers, who are not employed at this point in time. these jobs went to china. and with those jobs, we lost high-wage jobs, family-wage jobs. jobs that pay health and welfare benefits and pension programs. all of that is gone. and what we need to do is not allow it to happen again. and congressman, we applaud you for what you're trying to do. the issues here are one of seg menation where projects like the bay bridge were chopped up into multiple contracts so the money given to them by the federal government could be placed in parts of the job that were going to be done here no matter what.

but the crown jewel of the project was shipped off to china. it shouldn't have been allowed. >> let's talk about your piece of legislation, congressman, that you are the only person in this conversation with the privilege and responsibility and authority to represent the people of this country on this issue. we have watched tremendous amount of lobbying in this country from nationals who continue to benefit from the rigged policies, the tax policy. we have watched the treasury department of the united states refuse year after year after year to identify china for what they are as a currency manipulator. it's impossible for us to intervene in international trade agreements. how does your bill help solve some of these problems and what else do our legislators do to intervene, not to demonize china, but to demand that our

own government restore the fair playing field that the american people deserve and are desperately crying out for. >> you hit a lot of points in that question, dylan. let me first say, there's another issue of which we should be aware of. and that's safety. there's questions about what's being made in china. whether it's really going to be safe for our american public. that's an issue as well. but my legislation would prevent this seg menation of contracts in order to circumvent the provisions of current law. they have taken a number of other steps to circumvent the strong by american provisions as well. my legislation would eliminate the loopholes. my legislation would l require more in america type of provisions. for example, transit facilities at our aviation projects and lighting systems.

my legislation would truly prevent these loopholes from being found in the future. it's tough legislation. i hope we'll be made part of a long-term robust transportation bill that the house of representatives will consider before the month of january is over. and this legislation in our transportation committee in the past, it's always been of a bipartisan nature. democrats and republicans have worked together. but now, the republican leadership in the house, they are wearing these narrow-minded blinders that prevent them from seeing the big picture. they need to take off the blinders in order to see how putting americans back to work is best for our economy. how it provides wages and health benefits and good-paying jobs for our american workers. that's what we need to do. when americans work together, america works best. when americans make the project, americans are working. and that's what we need to do is

toughen up these provisions in current law and prevent the segmentation that allows them to circumvent. . we used to lead the pack in this type of infrastructure building. and now we're packing up an industry and shipping it overseas, when we have the know how and the technical benefits to acrude to american workers. it's just a shame what's happening. and it's something that the congress needs to address and we need to address it in a fashion. >> absolutely. forget the shame. let's do it. the american people, the more they learn, the more they will support all of this.

congressman, thank you so much for your efforts and for representing the interests not of a political party, but of investing in america. you can't create 30 million jobs if you don't have a massive in own country. there's nowhere that's more glaring than a situation like this. thank you so much. coming up on the 30 million jobs tour, as we roll forward, we know about the job opportunities we have lost to china here. so what is our relationship with that super power need to be moving forward? the former president of intel in china will join us. but first, bogus debates. we're talking jobs. while the people who want america's top job talk about who has more money. the mega panel is next. and later, we're talking cars too. can electric vehicles drive u.s. job creation and get us off of foreign oil in the process?

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just one day until the next presidential primary. this one will be in south carolina. last night, the final four republican candidates took the stage for a final debate. but all everyone was talking about was the first question. take a listen. >> she says you asked her, sir, to enter into an open marriage. would you like to take some time

to respond to that? >> no, but i will. [ applause ] i think the destructive, vicious, negative nature of much of the news media makes it harder to govern this country, harder to attract people to run for office, and i'm appalled that you would begin a presidential debate on a topic like that. [ applause ] >> forget jobs, investment in america, unemployment, poverty, health care, housing, energy inefficiéex+y apparently, discussing newt's marriage will solve america's problems. and that wasn't the only fireworks that flew last night. there was also mitt romney's tax return. >> when you release yours, will you follow your father's example? >> maybe. i don't know how many years i'll release. i'll look at what our documents

are. >> he handles it very well. and that's really one of the issues here, folks. >> newt is a friend, but at times you have to that worry sm moment that something is going to pop. and we can't afford that anormal my. >> i spent 16 years on a project called trading republican majority in the house. i think this is a grand country of big people doing big things and we need leadership prepared to take on big projects. >> with us now is our friday mega panel. ari, crystal, and tora. and i could not agree with newt gingrich more. it's an obscenity that this country in the face of poverty and the face of unemployment and the housing crisis continues to be disserviced and insulted by the nature and quality of these

debates. you yourself in your own campaign were attacked also on idiotic issues that have nothing to do with the actual debate. that's the root of the dysfunction we're suffering at this point? >> it's a big question. you're right. i faced similar delving into my personal life that was totally irrelevant. the thing with newt gingrich too is we've been over this for years. was there anything new in this interview? no. if you look at the whole course of the debate and all the questions asked, john king gave them plenty of opportunities to talk about the big problems facing the country. i don't want to put this totally on the media. and also people love conflict and drama. it's the clip getting played over and over again. they had a lot of time to dig into the huge structural issues facing this country like you're

doing. i looked over the transcript this morning. guess how many times the word "infrastructure" was mentioned. zero times. abortion, 16 times. obama care, 14 times. they know what they want to repeal. >> what about jobs and investment? >> i didn't check those. they mentioned jobs, but was there anything to get the country on track or create 30 million jobs? absolutely not. >> ari, your thoughts on a presidential debate structure at a time when poverty statistics are the highest in the history of the census, unemployment numbers trending better, thank goodness, are just if you look at the trend comes with people dropping out of the workforce. what can we do to encourage, to pressure, to elevate not just on the republicans, but on all politicians to force them to address the elephant in the room that is the lack of investment

in america, whether it's in our cradles of innovation, whatever you want to call it. this country is not investing in itself and we're not even talking about it. >> well, i think crystal hit it on the head with the desire to make everything personal. people want to attack mitt romney on the taxes issue and whether he should release them and whether the interest rate he's paying is fair. if you took a look at this and said what would dylan do, which is a good thing to do, one answer is let's not say mitt romney is evil for doing exactly what the law requires. let's have the deeper conversation about what the law should be. if you don't think that a 15% carried interest should apply to the majority of a very wealthy person's income, then let's change the law and not act like mitt romney following the law makes him a bad guy. ditto on releasing the information. you talked about the fed and

whether they are the right requirements on different interests and other loans they are providing to institutions. if we want candidates to have to turn over their tax returns, which i think is a reasonable requirement, let's put it in the law. >> tora, it's easy to fight with each other. we're a country that's done a great job of doing it. how do you feel that we can contribute to finding the things to agree to? i love watching the sopa protest in the valley where the valley came together on a single issue and said, you want to control the internet, here's what it looks like. how can the american people demand of all these candidates and politicians that we elevate this debate? >> you're right that there are big issues being ignored and some point to the debate. but i want to disagree with you on this idea that john king and the media are incorrect and that the people are incorrect in asking the questions. we want to know what these people think, but we reasonably

want to know who they are. when important and valuable questions are raised about who they are and how they have treated the people who they supposedly loved in their lives or brought close to them, these are reasonable questions. and newt's answer is incredibly intellectually dishonest. not only on the trail has he said you can ask me about my personal life, but the media is not the problem. i wish the people would not fall for this without being bamboozled so easily. the problem is what is allegedly newt doing to the people who he supposedly loves in his life who he supposedly marries and then perhaps -- and this is not the first time he's allegedly done something horrible to somebody, a woman, he supposedly loved. these are relevant and interesting and valuable questions to ask.

>> you know, i hear you on that. and i get that. but that is far from my biggest issue with newt gingrich. what i'm concerned about with newt gingrich is his antiwomen policy, racial plans. no plans to create jobs in this country. to me, that is far more important. the media is just giving viewers what they want. this is the clip that has gotten plaid over and over again. that's why they go there. but the candidates themselves have failed to offer anything in the way of a positive vision for the country. and that's the real failing. >> and the final thing to add to that in acknowledging your point and the value of that point, you make a valuable point. and i understand what you're saying. but for me, it's an issue of proportionalty.

there seems to be a lack of the sense of the proportionalty of the issues relative to these finite amount of time that we have. and at a time when the proportionalty of trillions of dollars being sucked out of this country through corrupt policies at a point in time of a massive poverty issue in this country, a massive unemployment issue in this country, it would be nice to see, in my opinion, a greater sense of proportionalty. it's nice to see all you guys. crystal is the one that made it out west. we still love ari and tora just as much. next pointing fingers at china. it may be easy and fun, but it does not solve the problems. we'll connect the dots on china/u.s. on who is to blame and how we can solve it.

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we have been talking about how our trade and tax policies are encouraging our money to leave and preventing investment to create the 30 million jobs we need. american capital diverted away from the u.s. but that is not the only issue when it comes to trade. let's connect the dots. we're following where the trade river flows. the best example to describe it is china. back in 1994 during the clinton years, china set currency at 50% of the u.s. dollar. that put china on a 50% off sale that continues to this day. who wouldn't buy from choina? making matters worse, china levied a 25% tax on all goods from the united states while the united states taxes

goods at 2.5%. that made chinese goods sold in the u.s. ten times cheaper by taxes than u.s. goods sold in china. the currency manipulation combined with the trade laws put u.s. companies at a major disadvantage. this isn't how our government is supposed to work. our own laws actually reward american multinational business owners for sending your job to china. washington is so choked by lobbying money and corporate cash it has made it more profitable for u.s. businesses to close up shop here in the united states and move production to china sending our jobs and money overseas. because for shareholders, the bottom line is what drives the business. in the meantime, the rigged unholy alliance between big business and d.c. lawmakers keeps the unfair trade laws on the books. extracting capital, money, and jobs from the u.s. all this cost america three

million jobs during the past decade. but we can reset the game. level the playing field, and get u.s. investors investing at home again. first, we must expose the "greedy bastards" who are padding their wallets at our expense. that means passing a 28th amendment to get money out of politics. we need to end the currency manipulation that u.s. companies lobbied for and benefit from at our expense. and end the unfair tax policies as president nixon did with japan. we have to take a page from the 1980s when president reagan super vised the plaza acord to stop japan from rigging their currency as china is today. it's critical to remember. we've been here before with other countries and solved these problems. before you get hopped up looking to demonize china, remember, we both, china and the u.s., have

more to lose or gain together than we do apart. don't believe me? without the u.s., china loses, by far, itself biggest marketplace. and they need our nation to be healthy and prosperous enough to repay the money they lent us. china needs us just as much as we need them. that is leverage and we can use it to our advantage. it's why we should start rethinking how we view our relationship with china. and we must stop blaming china. what they are doing to us is mostly being done by greedy bastards here at home. much more elaborately laid out in the book. all of this springs from that book, which is now available in all major book sellers along with amazon.com. how appropriate we found out

this morning that as we focus our show on china, that a manufacturer in taiwan has requested the rights to publish "greedy bastards" in asia over the next few weeks. an exciting thing as we look to include the world in a conversation about realigning our interests. china needs us just as much as we need them. after this, an honest conversation about the relationship we must forge with china to keep american jobs in america and at the same time acknowledge the fragile and delicate nature of making a transition like this. [ woman ] i was ready for my trip.

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trade, the catalyst for much of that. oil prices are determined by china's demand as much as it is ours. they loom so large that a recent poll shows more than six in ten americans are viewing china's rise as a threat to u.s. economic security. could they be our greatest ally? they are not our enemy and it does not spell doom. in order for both nations to continue to thrive, we have to figure out a way to work with each other, not against one another. remember our theme of ruthlessness and compassion. that is the only way to resolve something as complex as this. i want to bring in two men who understand the importance of our relationships with china.

former bureau cheep and current washington bureau chief richard mcgreg gor and the former president of intel china, jim jarret. he's now working for a program for collaboration between the u.s. and china. it is a pleasure to become both of you. you talk, jim, about the interdependence of the u.s. and china. we just went through that with the connect the dots. how do we push more of the conversation to resolving through our mutual dependence as opposed to the false optics of demonization. >> it is a close working relationship that we have with china. and it's growing. and we are their biggest export market. so we both have a lot to gain and a lot to lose from this relationship. so i look at it as playing offense and defense. and the defense is making sure that china is living up to its

commitments as a trading partner. and the offense is doing what we need to do and should be doing any way to grow jobs in the united states so that we're an effective competitor in the world. >> and richard, it is easy to sit on the bully pulpit and complain about currency rigging or about the tax strategy. mathematically, it may be correct. but it's also clear, much as it is with mispricing in the energy markets and other tax codes, that only a sophisticated approach that realizes that correcting this is a delicate act. walk us through, sort of, the dangers of reckless dangers of confronting china and how you recommend we approach the

situation? >> keep your friends close, your enemy closer. china is the classic frenemy. economically, china is our biggest partner. into the future, it's going to be a great political competitor to the u.s. in the asia-pacific region. and having an anchor to that relationship and knowledge of each other is what is going to stop that plolitical rivalry an military rivalry from going off the rails. a couple points. i'm going to disagree with you on one point. i think the currency is not a nonissue, but it's a wrong issue to focus on. there's many ways china intervenes in their economy. and the currency is a relatively minor one. and it's appreciated. you had a very interesting thing in your report earlier about the plaza acord overseen by reagan.

the u.s. still has a trade deficit with japan. don't focus on the currency. there are tougher issues that the two countries have to grapple with. >> so where would you steer us and how would you suggest we engage with china through you having spent time in beijing, in a way that we can balance the trading environment such that we are getting a more balanced flow of capital into our own country as opposed to the capital losses that america is currently incuring. >> the biggest distorting factor is the dominance of the state and the state sector. the communist party favors state companies and state entrepreneurs and private entrepreneurs. the u.s. has to chip away and unlock that relationship. i also think the u.s. has to

sort of marshall, not in a threatening way, you have to marshall your allies. japan, south korea, australia, europe, many of whom have the same problems you have. everybody has problems with china. and so to get some sort of united action against china or an effort to persuade china in various sectors in which they are distorting the world economy, i think that's the way to go. the chinese leaders don't wake up in the morning worrying about what's happening in congress. they are worrying about what's happening in their own country. >> and again, the biggest issue in china is employment. they have a much younger population than many other nations in the world. obviously, a significant concern that a high unemployment would lead to political instability. jim, you mention the dumping issues. richard just pointed to the issue of the state.

there may be no better example recently than china's solar development where they made it impossible for the world to compete with them on solar by virtue of their intense dumping into the solar marketplace. give us your sense and how significant a role the state is playing in distorting the price of things for those who are trying to compete in the open marketplace. >> well, in solar panels, the choinese have gone from single digits to half the market in the last few years. that didn't happen without help. it was a function of subsidies from the chinese government and being able to sell below cost. so i think we're seeing actions being taken. and those can be useful. we did the same thing with chips against japan in the '80s. and the antidumping case there

really helped to save the chip industry, which was headed towards extinction. so this is a good thing to happen. >> i'm going to leave this here just because i'm out of time. i love where you have pointed us to the idea of really advocating a global coalition around some of the core issues. and would love to have both of you back to discuss specifically whether there are antidumping lawsuits that could be filed in a way to prevent further damage. thank you very much for being here. >> straight ahead here, it is electric. we're at the birthplace of the modern day electric car asking can american drivers ever be convinced to make the switch? if there was a pill

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it's got 10 speeds, my friend. ♪ is it fast? it's got a lightning bolt on it, doesn't it? ♪ is it fast? i don't even know if it's street-legal. ♪ is it safe? oh,. one of nine volksgen models named a 2012 iihs top safety pick. ♪ got you in a stranglehold, baby ♪ we started with the story of the bridge behind us. what drives on those bridges? nothing more than our cars. in our book "greedy bastards," we talk about the death and rebirth of electric cars. we think they are instrumental in creating jobs but also represent a critical component of getting america off foreign oil and seizing what we see as the fuel of the future. efficiency. forget your fuel sources.

stop burning so much of whatever it is. but could we ever have electric stations instead of gas stations or is that pipe dream? joining us is mark vaughn, the editor of auto week, and ceo of the ev grid. and mark, is there a market here? >> the thing -- the simple answer is yes. i own an electric car. most people once they get in one and realize they commute back and forth every day in an electric car, they find out it costs less. you can pay under $20,000 to buy an electric car. and to fuel it, over several months of driving it, it costs one sevenths to operate. it seems like a win-win situation. tough get people to realize it. there is a market for it, but people don't seem to want to take the initiative to learn about it. >> nothing creates initiative more than paying the real price

of not doing it. and one thing we talk about a lot in the book is the breach of price integrity in the pricing of oil. the offbalance sheet accounting for the cost of the war. how much does the transition to new vehicles, or much is the transition prevented by the subsidization of carbon fuel? >> even today as mark said with the gas price in this country, electric prices are a break even with gasoline. if you're looking in europe, it should be a no brainer to drive home. but the industry isn't really geared up for it. the car makers haven't bought into it. it takes time to settle people on a new technology than different. >> why are the car makers not buying it? >> they have a lot of invest

ment in conventional systems. it takes a lot of money to develop it. they are taking a risk in the market. nissan is taking a huge risk. they are the first player out there with a good ev. the next guy to come along could have a better ev. so all the money they spent is at risk. >> thomas is talking about the leaf market. your thoughts on that car? isn't that the first full plug-in, no hybrid. >> the leaf was the first one to make it to market. mitsubishi came out with the eye. the thing is in the next two years, we're going to have something like 20 electric cars available on the the market. so nissan did make a big gamble with it. but they will all gamble to a certain extent. you can go to a ford dealer, honda, you'll be able to get an electric car anywhere. availability is not going to be the problem. the problem is just people going

out and trying it. get in one and drive. once you realize that you don't -- most people probably don't drive that far every day. you can drive 40 miles is the average on the upper end of the average for how many miles people drive. you can easily do that in any electric cars. some you can do more. one model could have 300 miles range. so that's not a problem. once you get out there and realize you don't have to drive to most of the time, you're on a freeway and don't notice you're only putting 20 or 30 miles a day on your car. >> but this is where the psychologists have to be brought into the room. a car is the horse. it's how you get where you're going to go. no one wants to feel like their horse is going to run out and not continue in the event they want to continue. even if the statistics are, as

were described to us by mark, how do all of us get through the psychological barrier of the car as a vehicle for freedom in the sense your freedom is inhibited by virtue of the recharging necessity of these cars? >> it's a tough challenge, but the easiest thing is to get people in the cars. people who drive the cars like them. people who drive the cars don't have the range anxieties. as mark says, it's maybe five or ten days a year where your ev may not have enough range to get you through the day. so it's only a few days a year where the range is inadequate. it just takes people awhile to get used to the idea. we grew up on route 66. >> you're working too much in the front of the brain here. go ahead, mark. >> it's interesting to me that

i've been writing about electric car cans for several years now. it astounds me that people come up with reasons why an electric car won't work. if i have to drive across the state or if i have to tow my boat on a trailer or what if i'm attacked by giant squids, they come up with reasons why an electric car won't work. most of those reasons are not going to happen in practical, everyday driving. they will work. they can work. i understand that you want to have a ferrari or something fun to drive. there's nothing wrong with that. but most of the time you're on a freeway going slowly back and forth to work. save yourself money. save yourself anxiety. and maybe even do something good for the environment. >> listen, your rational thought is overwhelming, but i'm going to encourage both of you to move from the front of the brain to the back of the brain to make this happen. you get the last word. >> the company i used to work for was founded on the idea that you have to make an electric car

that people want to buy. so we were big on power. we had the most powerful electric cars. relianced the technology to test us. and it really worked. you get in a car that's more powerful and fun to drive than a gas car. it sells. >> not to mention, obviously, we didn't get into it here but the significant reduced reduction in hydrocarbons. significant environmental benefits thank you so much for the conversation. thomas gauge and mark vaughn, thank you. it's proof that we're working to get jobs, rain or shine. today is a rain day. when we come back, the sunnier spot with series issues. the 30 million jobs tour in its next destination right after this. od insurance. yup, i've got... [ dennis ] ...allstate. really? i was afraid you'd have some cut-rate policy. [ kyle ] nope, i've got... [ dennis ] ...the allstate value plan. it's their most affordable car insurance -- and you still get an allstate agent. i too have... [ dennis ] ...allstate.

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e we would be naive to think we are going to create 30 million jobs with just innovation. we need significant investment in the pillars of industry as we talked here with the bay bridge. >> the sad part here is the job loss. we lost 3,000 jobs over the course of the last five years of u.s. workers who are not employed at this point in time. these jobs went to china. >> my legislation would truly prevent these loopholes from being found in the future. when americans work together, america works best. when americans make the project, americans are working. >> a united effort to persuade cho china in various sectors in