we purchase as much as we can on the american express open gold card. so we can accumulate as many points as possible. i pass on these points to my employees to go on trips with their families. when my employees are happy, my customers are happy. vo: earn points for the things you're already buying. call 1-800-now-open to find out how the gold card can serve your business. from new york, i'm chris hayes. newt gingrich is the winner of south carolina by a pretty wide margin. details on the vote and i will tell you what i think it tells us. first, let me bring in former new york governor and attorney general eliot spitzer. melissa harris perry. professor of political university and most importantly

starting february 4, close to h -- hosting her own msnbc show. "new york times" economic reporter returning as well, captain rambell. david stock man. subject of an amazing magazine article written with you my colleague and friend. really wonderful to have you. >> all right. so i have to say -- i guess -- we have been covering the rech primary race for a long time. sometimes i will be honest as a cable news host. feels like you are trying to spin straw into gold a little bit. there is such a long period in which no one was voting, nothing was happening. there was just polls and polls fluctuate and we would say donald trump is leading the polls. donald trump. then michele bachmann was leading the polls. put her on the cover of "newsweek." now people are voting is and there is genuine surprising uncertainty. unpredictability. >> keeps interest interesting.

>> it is fascinating. a week ago, no one thought that this was going to happen. talking to my staff four day ace go thinking that sunday's show should be a kind of look back at the republican race. a season finale. i said that. those were my words. we should be like -- can we cut boyz 2 men. newt gingrich finished with 243,000 votes or 40%. mitt romney finished with 167,000 votes. 28%. rick santorum, 100,000 votes, 17%. ron paul, 77,993. total number of votes from the first three contests. this is eye opening. these are -- all votes, all three states, it is close actually. mitt romney just narrowly edging out newt gingrich. i -- most important interesting thing to me has been the way

that conservatives are reacting to this. i want to play a clip newt gingrich's sfeech last night which was a fascinating text in many ways. and the core theme of the newt ginrich, the new 2.0, he has 3.0 at this point because he came back from -- >> 18.0. >> that's right. this is him, the new sort of channelling spe inling spiro ag why he should be the standard bearer. >> the biggest thing i take from the campaign in south carolina is that it is very humbling and very sobering to have so many people who is on deepry want their country to get back on the right track.

so many people who are so concerned about jobs, about medical costs, about the every day parts of life and who feel that the elites in washington and new york have no understanding, no care, no concern, no reliability, and, in fact, not not represent them at all. >> this -- just so happens i found a book called "twilights of the elites," this team a feeling of the country. i think ginrich dawes good job channelling it. ginrich made $3 million last year. lived in washington since jimmy carter. he is not a member of the elite, then who is? it worked. >> whoever is going to be the president of the united states will be a member of the elite. this is no -- i'm not about the launch of defense of newt ginrich but i want to bracket that. the person themselveses is not -- they are not going to come up from the farm, not in this contemporary environment. that said, what he gets right

there is what the feeling is. i think that -- i think the question is whether or not his actual record will allow him to con to be the candidate for those who have that feeling. but is that feeling -- has he accurately described it? 100%? >> there is a reality of the entire -- of the nation failed. i think either party converged on common set of principles that failed the nation. and i would have added george wallace to that litany of candidates who happened into the southern anger. a lot of -- there's a lot of anger directed legitimately at those elites who have taken us down a path of the trend line over which is failure, failure, fail zblur there is nothing new about this. dom in an republicans have been anti-elite, anti-foreign counciling, foreign relation, et cetera, for 0 years. nixon was.

he hated the establishment. and -- agnew. ronald reagan ran as an outsider. bush was a candidate of the establishment. so i think that the republican party today is saying we don't want romney because he's a an establishment republican. it doesn't matter what he is saying. he's in that slot. and the rank and file are looking for an alternative and every week they seem to -- there. >> there's two interesting -- right on two distinct theories here. one is that this is something ingrained in the republican eleel tore -- electorate time after time. the republican party has also had a history of nominating the next in mind of the bob doles. right? of the john mccain's. so -- this seems to me like an actual departure. >> rue. >> how long did those two candidates -- >> they got their butt kicked. >> they didn't do so well. >> outsiders run as outsiders.

i don't think that's even partisan. if you are the party out of power, you run as -- >> change washington. >> ruin the change. >> some more directly than others. this is not an exclusively republican mantra. i mean -- obama ran as the outsider, you know, he used his relatively little time in washington as an asset, you know. they say i'm not experienced. it means i haven't become ingrained with the d.c. establishment mindset bill clinton, of course, ran again. >> as did jimmy carter. nothing new. >> yeah. >> not one party versus the other but it is gaining traction across the entire nation. every recollection you get whiplashed back and forth. who is more of the outsider and greater challenge. >> i think there are two. right now there are two things good b the ginrich, what accounts for ginrich's victory. now, i want to play him summing up what his -- how he see it is race, idea about american exceptionalism being on trial. >> i believe this campaign comes

down to economics including jobs, economic growth, balancing the budget, value of money, and comes down to national security, what threatens us, what to do about it. but the centerpiece of this campaign, i believe, is american exceptionalism versus the radicalism. >> name checking i find hilarious. first of all what it says is the conservative media has to -- succeeded in turning a man who is university of economy which i sociologist and criminologist, turn it into the father of community. book for radicals. started in the south side of chicago, back of the stock yards and -- spawned in a way of confronting power. barack obama was trained in when he became the organizer in chicago. this person who is relatively obscure figure, not in my life, my father was trained by a man trained by him himself. this obscure figure has become

this systemic figure such that ginrich's main objection in what he knows will be a boundbite moment in his speech for a national audience. but i do not any that will have a ton of resonance in the broader american electorate. >> that's interesting. i hate to disappoint newt but in may trainings during the reagan administration i was an sds, as a college student. i actually went to a demonstration. and after about an hour and a half i checked out of the speech. it was so boring. okay. he's not a radical fire brand. i don't know where he came up with this other than the obama connection but lit not have resonance. it is irrelevant. it is a distraction. i want to say a point about exceptionalism. >> that was the key. >> the word is neo-can speak.

it is about beating the war drums in iran. it is about keep the military establishment which is vastly greater than we need fully in place. that's what exceptional its silver medal about. it is not about our economic problems or jobs or the fact that main street is falling behind. we have done nothing about wall street or we have a fed out of control. all the other issues that we can mention. that is code for an aggressive foreign policy that i think is the most dangerous thing we could do at the moment. >> i want to talk more about american exceptionalism right after we take this break. [ sniffs ] i have a cold. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil

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♪ it is a new day. for newt ginrich. we are talking about -- what are we talking about? american exceptionalism. newt ginrich, american except n exceptionalism is the core of the american people. mitt romney made similar cases. it is something -- the revenue on the right. somehow the election of barack obama, the man, black man with the foreign sounding man, has taken america off the path of americ americanand making it into what it is at the core. >> i just want to judgment in on both the name check which happened twice in the speech as well as american exceptionalism point. one if this is about anger at the elite, solinski may be a model. if we are talking about -- there is a by that which we have to ask exactly this question. even if it doesn't bring the

name immediately, what is using that name men to do when olinski would be a lovely model angry at the elites and looking at below the poverty line in south carolina. this is the point about american exceptionalism. it is a code word for this kind of aggressive international action when it could be a very different way of thinking about exceptionalism. when president obama was senator obama making his pitch, he says only in america my story. even possible. he's in many ways perhaps the embodiment of american exceptionalism and only thing that makes america exceptional is not our nostalgic fear and desire to push back but has been our frontier mentality into some sort of new possibility which has been problematic. as has president obama and his policies. also represented a kind of promise we can be more. this regressive politics as american exceptionalism strikes

me as ahistorical. >> i also think there is -- i mane, the big contrast if you are looking at 2008 and dash barack obama's message and newt gingrich's message is the difference between hope on one side and deep resentment that i think is driving the ginrich message and the voting behavior of -- i mean, what got ginrich? a week ago ginrich was very far behind mitt romney. what happened was he put juan williams in his place on monday night at the debate and john dmg his place. >> understand as emotions hope and anger are very closely related. >> that's a profound statement. >> you take all the hope and when it failses and collapses what you get is anger. right now what ginrich is harvesting is the anger of the public in an economic reality. barack obama ran on hope and change that hasn't morphed and exceptionalism is a contradiction to the apologies that -- so they claim are completely false of the

president. those are the dichotomy that anger and exceptionalism against apology and hope. >> let's bring in dave weigle joining us from columbia. thanks for joining us. >> it is a great day in south carolina, chris. >> dave, i'm curious how -- how do you explain my theory of -- my theory of ginrich's gains are the resentment driven upheave afl him having moments of confrontation with juan williams and john king and i think under one radar stories on bane capital worked. they freaked out and everyone rallied. they were effective political attacks. what do you think accounts for ginrich's rise, having talked to people down there? >> i'm glad you mentioned the bain attacks because the -- the attention span of the travels

press corps on this race was about 72 hours, 36 hours. which was fair because the attention span of the electorate is short, too. you definitely talk to voters in the final stretch of this who -- asked a blind question about why they are switching to ginrich, the first thing they mention was than bain. it was he really put juan williams in his place. that -- that actual -- i heard it quite a few times. put in his place by ginrich. no. the -- elitism of mitt romney as they saw it came up, too. there are a lot of voters, talked to a lot of blue collar voters. people that had been laid off. one couple in munce corner, made $100,000 and makes $24,000 now, couldn't relate on to mitt romney. they weren't mentioning points there that bain documentary. i don't think they had seen it. they got the sense that mitt romney didn't understand their pain. the way that newt ginrich did. you laugh at that but that's of a piece of what you have been talking about so far, in every

way, mitt romney is not as good at explaining the angst people feel as ginrich is. romney will talk about american exceptionalism in a different way. it just doesn't hit. it doesn't get to the solar plexus like it does when newt says it. >> what i think we have seen with romney is inability to speak convincing -- convincing conservative pop list many. he has a really hard time pulling it off. >> a colleague of yours from slate. can i add a different one? absolutely no passion with mitt romney. the public wants anger and passion and hope, some emotive hook that lets him know this guy -- nut gingrich is real. look at his line and there is a soap opera every day. people relate to that. >> everyone in this room has known personal pain. not everyone in the room caused that personal pain. absolutely. with mitt romney he is, as he

himself said, he is the gin side the frame on the frames you buy at the store. >> we have the exit polls from nbc news. i thought this was interesting in terms of by income. under the -- this is the breakdown of south carolina by income. 73% make under $100,000. only one that mitt romney one were the people that make $200,000 or more. he was winning -- i think mitt romney and we are going to talk about it more lay other the show. to what you are saying, dave, about the -- this issue that he has and ginrich's alternative, romney seems to have thought at one point he can win, he can score points in the kind of conservative tribalist mode by being mr. 1% and forgot, i think, that's not actually appealing to actual republican voters despite the -- ideology. >> can i make a slightly different but i think recommend point. mitt romney played defense the

entire week. he knew after new hampshire he was going to be playing defense because everybody was going to pounce at him and failed to go on the offense, claim defense is a disaster politically and 15%, played it on bain. never made an affirmative argument and stood up and said i'm the guy that will create your job and invest your money. he has a great argument. >> it is not really clear grich did a grit job of saying here is how i will created your jobs. >> no, no. here is how i'm going to rather than aleve yacht your pain, take away a lot of the welfare programs, food stamps, unemployment, insurance, that sort of thing that are keeping you afloat. >> this was -- this was -- this was about atmospherics as much as anything else. i want you to respond about that after we take this break.

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which newt ginrich won handedly after an amazing week in which he was down 25 points to mitt romney ends up winning by i guess 14 points. 12, 14 points. dave wiegel, what do you see -- respond to the great point made -- not like ginrich's victory was because he laid out this vision of, you know, detailed social policies people really like. it was about these atmospherics. respond to that. i want to you talk about -- i follow some conservatives on twitter and every one was -- out last night. talking about collective suicide, marching off of a cliff. sort of -- i mean, and this was -- across the board. looking on. i'm curious what you think about what the next move for the republican conservative establishment is. >> well, the first question, i would quibble with the idea ginrich didn't have a vision. he had a vision that lines up very closely with what the conservative base, tea party is,

insofar as still a movement. what they think is the problem with america. it is not that he -- he doesn't need to talk about creating jobs because they don't believe that's what government is there to do. he's -- what he talks about dependency, we talked about sol solinski. it is that -- -- barack obama pl along was to make poor people dependent on the state to put more people on food stamps and make more people poor so that there could be a permanent welfare class that would always vote for the democratic party. that's what he is saying. and the way the -- conservative of south carolina republican interprets that is that no one else is putting this out. this is why the -- economy is failing. failing because obama is making it worse on purpose.

>> there's 9.9% unemployment in south carolina. you would think that -- >> the state. we are talking about -- >> yeah. you think that some of the voters would feel -- >> talking electorate. >> yeah. >> i mean -- here's what i find odd about ginrich running against this revived welfare queen. he and president clinton are responsible for the end of welfare as we know it. and very, very proud of it. the notion of food stamps and welfare, in many ways he's running against his -- his only major conservative accomplishment. he is saying 20 years ago i -- i helped to author the policy that got rid of government dependency. you should vote for me because everybody is dependent on government. that would be an indication his policy has fade. i think that part of what i find odd here is he clearly knows that welfare dependency cannot exist in the way it was once understood to exist when reagan

invoked this false sense. people who are under $200,000 chose the winner, that's great. that means we can beat whatever is going on in the world if ordinary people get to make the choice. but the problem is that if it is because we believe the other ordinary people, black folks, and -- wives and the media are all our enemies, we have failed at what that pop list many may be able to do. >> the armies of food stamp recipients, cable news debate hosts, ex-wives against newt ginrich and virtuous people of the south carolina electorate. when you talk about the second point, this is -- to me the most fascinating dynamic from where we go from here is the -- when ginrich first surfaced as a possible contender you saw a concerted effort, i think, by both, big money in the republican party, romney campaign, and conservative intellectuals to take him down

to say this is -- crazy. we cannot nominate this guy. completely unelectable. highest unfavorables of anyone we have. that didn't work. it worked because it took him down in iowa and back again. when ginrich went after bain capital you saw another concerted effort by the conservative establishment and say no, this is not what we do on the republican side. free enterprise. we are for creative destruction. that didn't work. so -- what are -- what is the -- what's the next move of the -- both conservative intellectual establishment and the money players to make sure that the disaster of grich being nominated does not actually happen? >> there's actually a lot of wait and see part of the plan here. there's real confidence that grich whenever when ginrich gets in a moment he blows it. republican strategists watching this are kind of telling each other not to freak out. this is a south carolina primary. usually -- this is odd. it is more typical south carolina proves the establishment choice.

if you told somebody six months ago that the mormon front-runner mitt romney would not win south carolina, it would peak at you a round close to 30%, that wouldn't have surprised people. the only surprise was conservatives coalesced in south carolina more quickly. they are counting on him to fall apart. the reason to get back to the talk of all this stuff, they don't really trust him and think he's -- very good at glomming on to ideas for five minutes. they are surprised that the conservative tea party voter believes that grich is on their side because -- in their view he was -- he expanded government at the end of the 1990s and didn't cut it as close as he could have. he hasn't been his -- his record in -- as speaker hasn't examined in a serious way the way the romney campaign attacked glib so far. how he should release -- they don't care about that. one of the lessons in the grand sweep of tea party history republicans failed after

republican revolution, after about a year, you talked to tom coburn about that. >> philip klein of the washington examiner, i believe, last night and this morning said you are going to have a race between the candidate who is the electable one and the candidate of the conservative is not that conservative. ginrich is quite conservative. viewed with swift suspicion. >> did you need background here. what's happening is i believe the u.s. economy has been failing for a decade for the bottom 90%. let's -- if you look at the job front we had last month, we had the same number in march 2000 which means in 12 years we have not created one payroll job net in the u.s. economy. if we look at middle class jobs, they are down 10% between the beginning of this century and where we are today. now the -- only part of the economy that's working is the top 10%, wall street speculat n

speculation, casino, and the federal reserve making sure that no one who is very large fails. and i think that the public realizes that the elite and the 10% are doing well and that romney appears to be the candidate of the 10%, whether he is or not p. grich is a gritty guy from georgia who is speaking, whether his program makes any sense p, whether he's going to actually solve anything, speaking for the 90% on main street that's been left behind and you saw some of it last night when he said i'm going after the fed, which he should. >> let me -- you can -- bits of sound. here is -- here is newt grich approvingly citing ron paul's monetary policy which is extremely dangerous as an actual notion of how to run the government. but here he is, positively citing ron paul. >> as a further example how wide open your our system is, you

have dr. ron paul who on the issue of money and federal reserve has been right for 25 years. >> he has been wrong for 25 years, longer than that on that specific -- >> can we debate that. >> i think he has been right for 25 years. >> no, we are not going -- but stay tuned. in terms of this argument of the 90% about opportunity, person that's the most forcefully making that is rick santorum. that's been his whole appeal has been specifically blue collar workers, manufacturing. here he is speaking last night. taking a shot at romney. also using this sort of class based language. >> i'm going to go out and talk about how we are going to have a republican party, conservative movement. that makes sure that everyone in america has the opportunity to rise and not just those who have maybe advantage. maybe have had a little bit more

opportunity than somebody else. >> last night indicating he will stay in the race. that makes sense because think there there is a lot of feeling newt ginrich may say something -- melissa made a blowing up motion. may do something that -- i want to you weigh in on that right after we take this break. [ female announcer ] experience dual-action power,

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♪ so dave, what is your sense of where -- where 2 campaign goes next in terms of florida which does have quite a different electorate from south carolina, the amount of natural media and twitter i saw on my inbox newt will be on all the sunday morning shows.

except for chris hayes, notably. and also abc which of course ran the gingrich -- he will get a lot of natural exposure. what do you see playing out in the ten days between now and florida t florida primary? >> well, florida has -- is going to have a big -- electoral. since he started rising in the poll has explicitly tried to find an immigration message not 100%. a lot of pundits thought what he first said my immigration plan would be to include people who have been here for more than 25 years in a slickive service system where they can via their peer peers get citizenship. it didn't hurt him, other things husht him. he comes to florida, that message in the past has been reefly quick -- really quick to demagogue this.

the first thing i'm watching in florida, a fool to predict the rest. if i predicted anything about south carolina three days ago i would have been a fool. >> the critical issue right here, right now, who can appeal to the 90% economic pop list many that in both of the democratic and republican parties needs to be addressed and candidate who sort of harnesses that passion will win. in florida, will gingrich be able to make an argument and economic pop list many carry the day in florida as it really did in south carolina? >> well, a version of this carried the day in 2010 means south carolina is a state that elected rick scott governor and -- i might be -- scott's background was as a very wealthy hospital executive who actually settled an enormous medicare fraud claim but it would have betrayed himself as a guy who would blow up the government and empower -- in power, as he has done, do drug tests people who

are on welfare and roll back government services, cancel train lines. things that would might be good for the 90% argue that they were actually bad and actually in -- get rid of them. florida republican voters, you know, who one voted for charlie crists has proven they are ready for this kind of right wing pop list many. ginrich are dark has done good in the stay -- blue collar voters. i think it is going to do very well there especially the -- parts of the state really are distressed. this is a state with really -- with incredibly hot unemployment and even after putting republicans in charge to try to ameliorate it. they have not done that and concluded they made a huge mistake yet. they are ready for more right wing pop list many. >> i want to make three quick points. tom tancredo, colorado, one of the lead voices in the most

extreme and zealous and anti-rhetoric. so we are clear about the 90%, i don't want us to lose the threat of substance. gingrich's tax plan would reduce romney's taxes more than romney's tax woes reduce them and mitt romney's tax plan would reduce his taxes way, way more than the baseline of barack obama. gingrich wants to get rid of capital gains taxes. even the 15% that -- >> when you are talking substance and gingrich went in to south carolina and became the -- >> i'm just saying in case anyone is watching and getting confused someone standing in as a substantive representation of people who are in the 90%. you want to make clear substantive pronouncements are as -- anything on the table. >> i want v to respond to that. you and i clearly agree on that analysis. the american public has not always seen it that way. >> i agree with that. >> tax plans put in place by

president reagan and others, you and i may disagree viewed by the 90% as being beneficial to them and our view, your view and my view -- >> sure. >> clearly. >> does not always carry the day. >> let's get history. reagan -- >> come on, don't be so particular. >> in 1986 put in the great tax reform, put capital gains and ordinary income and on a level playing field. sa since then, the republicans went two directions. two big to fail, appointed people like greenspan and bernanke to the fed, secondly they basically made speculation tax-free. tax-free speculation plus -- >> that's why i love david stockman. he tells the truth. >> we have a clip of reagan talking about tax fairness. >> we are going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid pay their fair share. in theory some of those loopholes were understandable.

in practice, they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing on a bus drive paying 10% of the salary and that's crazy. it is time we stopped it. >> that's ronald reagan advocating the buffett rule before it was called the buffett rule. >> reagan would not do well in -- i mean, actual living, breathing ronald reagan would not do well in this primary season with this gop field. and i think that should -- that should cause every american to pause. right? whether you are remembering the nostalgic version of reagan where he seemed like your father but nothing like mine at all, but that seems to to be the narrative about i wonder -- >> that seems to be the narrative about who reagan was to some other set of americans while the rest of us got written out of that history. but the fact that reagan for -- for as -- problematic and as regressive as so many of the reagan policies were over that near decade, the fact is that

he, that kind of rhetoric, would be seen as inauthentically conservative, insufficiently republican at this moment. that's an indication of the party -- dave, thanks for joining us this morning. really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> our pregame show for today's sunday morning political talk show right after this. [ male announcer ] feeling like a shadow of your former self?

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making an appearance, chris christie, governor of new jersey. we got you to listen to the others. eliot spitzer, what would you be asking if you were -- >> i would go in a different direction and take david ruben style from the carlisyle group, private equity outfit. i would say to david rubenstein, what's happen within the republican party? the party of capitalism that somehow capitalism is now on trial and when are you guys who believe in this system going to stand up and make a defense of it? i have never seen such a passive failed approach to defending a system that i believe in. i'm -- west sort of democrat that was attacking wall street, capitalism works, private equity can work, where are -- is somebody going to make a defense of it? it is important. >> that would be an interesting -- i would like to see that actual conversation. what would you be asking? >> i would pick up on philadelphia mayor michael nutter who is going to be on nbc's "meet the press" today. and i would like to talk to michael nutter as a mayor about

how the sort of state's rights is working out. because one of the things that's going on for mayors in big cities as the move to send everythinging to the states occurred, is it over and over again these cities are getting far fewer resources than they need. state legislatures that are often dominated by those who live outside of urban communities, making choices that are starving our cities. we are a country. one of the few countries in the world where people seem to hate their cities. and so i would really like to talk to the mayor about how this kind of local rhetoric does not work for people working in local areas. >> so i would want to ask mitt romney, who i think is on one of the talk shows, you didn't mention him -- i think he may have been scheduled to appear and after last night's results disappeared but suns we are playing imaginary anyway, let's ask the question. >> i would have asked mitt romney whether he thinks that extra it should be taxed at a lower tax rate. there has been so much criticism of him paying 15% tax rate

because so much of his income comes from investments rather than so-called earned income. you know, learned hand and others said there is no patriotic duty to pay more than -- pay more taxes than the law requires and so i'm not going to fault mitt romney for paying tax rate he is allowed to pay. the question is does he think that particular tax rate is fair? >> just -- people know, it is a loophole that allows people with hedge fund owners to declare their -- income they derive from a share of the funds' growth as capital gains as opposed to income. if it were income it would be tacked at 35%. instead they could call it capital gains even though it looks and smells like income that -- declare 15% and that makes a lot of money. you can't find anyone from the wall street editorial board to, you know, the national review to defend the actual -- rupert murdoch was talking about how -- people who actually pay it.

>> hedge fund guys. >> well, i would ask newt now that you have put your finger on the elephant in the room, and that is the flederal reserve, this disaster we have is ultimately rooted in the patient of the federal reserve and easy money and so forth. what are you going to do to remove the federal reserve from the clutches of wall street and remove the current leadership that's taken us down the drain. >> other campaign in south carolina, kobe effort and herman cain when we come back. [ male announcer ] if you had a dollar for every dollar

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yesterday was the second anniversary of the supreme court's united states decision that says the government cannot prohibit spending unlimited amounts of money moving up to elections. effectively blew the doors of campaign finance laws as it stood. no one has done more to shine a light on the impact of this

decision than comedian stephen colbert. on the eve of the election, colbert gave arousing defense of super pacs and made a mockery of the supreme court decision. >> the pundits asked is this all some joke. we have all heard it, haven't we? i say if they are calling being allowed to form a super pac and collecting unlimited and untraceable amounts of money from individuals, unions, and corporations and spend that money on political ads and for personal enrichment, then surrender that super pac to one of my friends while i explore a run for office, if that's a joke, then they are saying our entire campaign finance system is a joke. and i don't know about you but i have been paid to be offended by that. >> stephen colbert. melissa, you have a great book out called "sister citizen."

you should get a full screen up. you were on stephen colbert just the other day talking about the book. i -- in such admiration for what he has been doing on this. and just seems so category defined and boundary and so mart. what's your reaction to this? >> well, so -- a couple of things. one, first time that there was a shot of south carolinians that looked what my life looked like. the other piece of it is a bit of an indictment of all of us, isn't it? the fact is that the most sort of piercing, interesting and capturing of the absurdity of the american political system right now is coming from a comedian doing us fake. so there is a way in which the fact that we are -- we are not quite able to capture in our very earnest conversations about the american political system and the campaign finance system, what he can do in five minutes. just -- always a reminder maybe we have to up that. >> and also i think that what's interest sing he has done a great job of, i mean, we were

going through the details and reading congressional issue paper on the super pac. campaign finance law in the new citizens united era. we are talking more about stephen colbert right after this break. [ male announcer ] how'd you learn to do that? when did you start that project? every new year comes with a few stories waiting to be built. it's when our brand-new to-do lists become "you did that yourself?" so when we can save more on the projects that let us fix, make, and do more, that just makes the stories even better. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. get this glacier bay vanity for the new lower price of just 39 bucks.

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i have club passes. [ male announcer ] now there's a mileage card that offers special perks on united, like a free checked bag, united club passes, and priority boarding. thanks. ♪ okay. what's your secret? ♪ [ male announcer ] the new united mileageplus explorer card. get it and you're in. snchlgts from new york, i'm chris hayes. "up with chris hayes" this afternoon. if you missed the first hour, join us next weekend at 8:00. we have been talking about south carolina primary results with eliot spitzer, melissa harris perry. former reagan budget director david stockman. newt ginrich won the south carolina primary last night handedly winning 40% of the vote

to mitt romney's 28%. one of the more surreal elements of the south carolina race was the presence of the stephen colbert/herman cain team. colbert's presence in south carolina. this is him on "morning joe" talking about -- they play an ad which is -- he has this running shtick about how he created a super pac and handed it over to stephen colbert and not coordinating. it is perfect absurdities of campaign finance law in the wake of the citizens united decision. here is on "morning joe" driving this point home. >> my staff did not make that ad. jon stuart's staff made that ad. it used to be the same staff that worked for me. he hired them from my staff and can work with other members who are working on my exploratory committee but we are keeping them separate.

>> that's the actual letter of the law how super pacs have to work. we are seeing super pacs play this outsized role in the election. i think that it has been chewed over quite a bit. it is not new. what i think is so interesting is that you think about in the presuper pac area, newt gingrich would have a hard time in terms of fund-raising because he doesn't have a lot of money and he -- and certainly compared to mitt romney. a billionaire casino -- owner wrote him a $5 million check to get up on the air on south carolina and maybe he wakes up this morning and says $10 million go play in florida. all of a sudden it is a whole new world. it seems to me that p that's the case, if sheldon can personally sponsor newt ginrich by giving money to a super pc in unlimited amounts you wonder if it is like if gingrich was elected president and he needed a favor on some casino piece of legislation, i think that call would definitely get taken. >> there is an anecdote about that that i think captures the essence of he is a diminutive

stature. people know. and he was asked once, do you feel bad that you are sure. he said when i'm sitting on my wall i'm the tallest man in the room. he's the tallest man in the room this morning but i think it tells you that -- the essence of this problem that we have with our campaign finance history. we are at the end of the road. institution is totally broken. he cannot be fixed with the last supreme court decision. we are going to have to have a constitutional amendment, i believe, fundamentally restructures how we do our elections and how we fund our election process and if we don't do that we are going to continue to drift down the road of what we are seeing on these primaries, crony capitalism, interest group domination and resentment of the 90% who aren't part of the process. >> you carved out your own portion of occupy. the 10% don't get off.

>> i agree with most of what david said. the system is broken. i want to make two other points. system was broken -- >> citizens unite. >> let's not make that one case focal of our conversation because the system is broken at a deeper level. i'm not sure that decision was wrong. here is were. chris, you are on a program owned by a corporation. your first amendment rights which i don't think you would give away for anything are -- citizens. right. the point is that "the new york times" editorial page, chris hayes, steve colbert are all programs owned by corporations and so i'm -- nobody has ever answered for me, the question wait a minute, how do you get him to differentiate the -- first amendment rights of you or -- we have a deeper philosophical issue we have to address before we go in and say citizens united. >> let me also say this. i would -- agree with this. i would say thatsy sense united was the death blow that was struck to a post-watergate

system of campaign finance that was already on its last legs. mortletally wounded. >> opted out by barack obama. george w. bush opted out. he -- in the general but in the primary george w. bush opted out. john mccain opted out. >> public finance is the way we should go. we are not going to get there right now. we have a system totally busted. citizens united is not -- >> i'm sorry. i need to press a pause button the idea citizens united is no big deal. we were in a secular drift towards the problematic causes. sure, and yet, this -- the notion that president obama's campaign was the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of campaign finance problems and the citizens united is sort of incidental. i think it is deeply problematic. >> why? >> citizens united. >> wait. what we have seen in the past -- what we see in the past is not incremental and what we have seen in the past two years in terms of the effect has not

been. the very -- very candidacy of newt gingrich is emblematic that it is not. >> hold on. let me say something. $5 million check written bay loan billionaire to go on the air in south carolina is more than an incremental change. entirety of his media. >> you are missing the point. in so many prior campaigns, almost the entirety of the advertising comes from the same special interests. this was not different. >> one individual. >> so what. >> it is not a democracy. >> power of money to influence the debate has been a pervasive problem for years. >> money had to be collected from multiple individuals. not given by one. >> it could have been one corporation, one union. >> no, it was than. no, it was than. that's not opened up. >> it was. it was in terms of the way it was done. >> this debate has been going on for four years. first thing that worked out on capitol hill is a young guy 1970 with common cause, campaign

finance reform, and with udall. came up with all the schemes was free speech. every time you came up some way to regulate the election process, you ran into free speech. we have been struggling with that ever since. last decision finally was the nail, last nail in the coffin. you are not going to solve this problem and give the public finance only and give the corporations and special interest groups and money out of dominating our political process unless we have a constitutional amendment that basically mandates public finance of campaigns and free speech for a period of time during a campaign by candidates and their organizations. >> so -- to the extent that -- extent that you are -- have you absolutely indicated sort of this long trajectory what i find distress sing this idea that an individual campaign -- that of

president obama or bush or any of them previously, candidates played within the system that's open to them. we do not expect candidates -- any more than we expect mitt romney to pay more in taxes than legally required we dough not expect them to act in hyper-ethical way. these are the reforms we think they should have. we expect them to use the laws that exist to raise their candidacy. citizens united it is a reminder we are undoubtedly voting for the next -- combination of the what the next supreme court will look like. one of the things we have to keep remembering as we move forward not just a court. court's composition changes over time. the sorts of choices that are made -- >> let me -- lay out my -- first of all, in terms of barack obama killing off a campaign finance, decision not -- first time in the general to not take matching funds was a big decision. it marked a break. more than anything press imitated by particular there internet and ways in which you can raise money blew the door

off of what was possible. he was sort of playing within -- made a cal sxlus made the right one. in terms of citizens united the thing that's troubling, scenario i spelled out before on the show is -- you know, there is now the -- the hammer that hangs over everyone which is this. you are going to vote against carried interest. we are going to get together and make a super pac and i'm going to spend -- you just walked off to the chairman in the house and go into his office and spend -- we are going to meet and these three here, our private equity firm, we are going to spend $10 million in your district to destroy you if you do -- if you bring this deal. that was not possible. that does matter. >> i'm going to sound very close to first amendment -- that's the first amendment. if i own a newspaper, i want to be able to spend all of the money i have got to my last printing newspapers and saying to people here is why what you are doing is wrong. that is the first amendment. i don't want somebody saying to me you can't print your

newspaper to take this editorial position which is exactly what "the new york times" does. imagine if the supreme court said to "the new york times" you can't run editorials in the two weeks before because you are spending x dollars on those editorial. >> that's the point. that's the point. let's -- fine. let's rerun the thought experiment. those three, deep in my imaginary equity gentlemen, there was nothing precitizens united stopping them and buying the network and putting them on. they aren't. it is different. that's the point. that's the point that it is different. different than the conversation that happens in the room. conversation that happens in the room, $10 million ad buy in your district is different than going and buying a newspaper. we will be right back in talking about this after the break. a mouthwatering combination of ingredients... i know you're gonna love. [ barks ] yes, it's beneful healthy fiesta. made with wholesome grains, real chicken, even accents of tomato and avocado. yeah! come on! [ barking ] gotta love the protein for muscles-- whoo-hoo! and omega-rich nutrition for that shiny coat.

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citizens united, i don't want to belabor this too long. but i -- exchange is important. i just want to have one more -- close the loop on this one part. i will -- no. i'm actually going to give thank you last word. here's what i want to -- hear you say before we turn our attention back to mitt romney who is having a bad sunday morning. okay. so there's not citizens united is nothing new. interpret first amendment law correctly. all that sufficient is protected on the first amendment. i will concede that. what's the solution if that's the case. >> the solution is -- vastly greater transparency and david was talking about one six-year term for the presidency. there is a fundamental -- interesting concept. i don't know if we go there, parliamentary system. radical ideas out there. what the public has got to appreciate is this is a fundamental tension between our desire to limit the amount of influence that wealthy people have which is crazy outrageous corrupt and i was in that

system. it is awful. versus the very core notion that -- first amendment level that you have the right to sit here and a company owned by comcast, rachel maddow and between don't want anyone limiting your capacity to speak. >> on the transparency point if you look back and read the citizens united decision a lot of it talks about so long is there is transparency and know who is paying for various ads and that sort of thing, you know, all is right in the world. >> i think transparency is not a panacea. >> there is none right now. >> getting a sense. >> i want to turn now to mitt romney because we have -- talked mostly about gingrich in the first hour of the program. mitt romney -- you know, what went wrong from mitt romney in this past week. we -- he -- i mean, lot went wrong for him. >> everything. >> anything with a tactical error. he is a victim of the trap that republicans set for themselves. over the last ten years, they

have been reducing every kind of tax rate that's on the top 10% that you can imagine, dividends, capital gains, estate tax. that's what they stand for. that's what the public sees. and now come along and a candidate who is benefiting enormously from that because he did -- he was a citizen like everybody else. suddenly the whole thing is in living technicolor as mr. 1%. that's kind of an irony. he's actually a very solid candidate but he now has wrapped around his neck the -- legacy of a policy that the republican party hoist order the country. >> sure. fallen candidate but not a good campaigner. the fact is that one could be a member of the 1%. one could be the -- george bush. if you are a great combiner, if when you say the word unemployment it does not stick in your throat like you never said that before, i mean, one

can be quite wealthy and the -- son of a former president or -- the cousin of one. any of those things and still be able to effect a populist message. they are responding to form as content. >> yes. i think that it is interesting that he -- made a tactical decision to play -- except -- play a clip in second. romney had this problem from the beginning. he was a massachusetts moderate and he was going to appeal to a primary bunch of roep voters in a tea party mood. that was always the problem from the beginning. signed massachusetts health care are model for affordable health care, et cetera. i think they thought the way they were going to get around that was choose certain issues they can go hard right on immigration is one of them. any time immigration comes up, you see romney light up. i'm going to get you. >> exactly. >> particularly on the right. r right. centrally they thought look, we can't appeal to this sort of kind of cultural animus with

same dexterity other candidates can. what we can do is appeal to the kind of cult of success, the -- rhetoric of i'm successful and i'm a business man and that's going to play well and republicans. usually it does. here he is talking and what happened is with the bain attacks, there was a taboo broken, i think, by ginrich and santorum that all of a sudden he had to look around and attacked by the things they thought was his strength in the republican field and here is him bitterly denouncing that last night in his speech. >> we cannot defeat that president with a candidate that joined in that very assault on free enterprise. when my opponents attack success and free enterprise, they are not only attacking me, they are attacking every person who dreams of a better future. those who pick up the weapons of the left today will find them turned against us tomorrow. that's the choice our party

gives us, america. or else we don't offer them any choice at all. >> weapons -- i like that phrase. >> maybe we can name my new show that. we are still looking for a name. >> he made so many tactical mistakes this week. he should have said here are my tax returns. here is what i paid. get them out there and then make that full-throated defense of the economic system he believes in, would have changed the entire narrative of the week and he could have won. >> we have breaking news. mitt romney was just on fox and said he will release his tax returns on tuesday. i don't have any indication of whether that is just the -- last year's 2011 tax returns presumably or whether he is going to do the full 12 years like his father -- john king asked and he said moment. one of the most awkward moments i have ever seen in a debate interview. no, i'm just saying that -- this isn't about free enterprise. newt -- he made a huge mistake. he was in the financial

speculation business. that's what lbos are about. they are not building businesses or creating jobs. they are about massively leveraging up companies, script minding out for cash, producing returns where -- small number of investors and moving on. and he -- made a tactical mistake by saying this qualifies me to run the country today when -- because i have learned all this. >> here is the other inning thing about it. he chose -- i think the other corner he painted himself into very interestingly is that he -- he -- he was the governor of a state. right? he has actually executive experience and can never talk about it because of the health care issue. so all he talked about where were 15 years at bain. he was fairly popular governor in massachusetts. and he has a record that he could run on but because of the health care issue literally you never hear a word out of his mouth. >> talk about bain now either. so right now he has a 30-year problem. >> he permitted the other side to frame that debate and by being passive both on the tax

issue and on -- he sat there talking body blows for three days, let the momentum get away. tactics of the campaign. he could have changed the entire dynamic of the week monday and tuesday. >> i think elliott is right about -- about the fact that this was about offense versus defense. that moment when john king asked that question of newt gingrich and this should have been a moment when gingrich was on defense and no, he goes -- immediately on offense and all of a sudden that whole narrative about the ex-wife and that changes because he goes on the offense. so had the -- i don't know, maybe i will be as good as my dad. but instead it had been -- actually you will see those later tonight. pulling them together now. ten years i'm going to be better and give you 20. right? had it been something different, i think that's right. he could have spun that narrative different. >> i other candidate in the race, the one that will get the nomination for sure, of course, is president obama, democrat. his state of the union speech is two day as you way and i think the first big campaign speech

that he will be giving in this election year. preview of that right after this. [ ma

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some are here on my panel. as republicans circle in on choosing a nominee or not, the president makes his state of the union address on tuesday. here is a preview sent out tellingly by his campaign organization. >> tuesday night i'm going to talk about how we will get there. i'm going to lay out a blueprint for competent that's built to last. american manufacturers, more good jobs and products stamped with made in america. american energy, fueled by homegrown and alternative energy sources. skills for american workers getting people the education and training they need so they are ready to take on the jobs of today and tomorrow. most importantly, a return to american values. fairness for all and responsibility from all. >> giving a preview of what the message will be. you are an economics reporter. one of the things i think really is interesting in the dynamic area is -- it is very hard to imagine that there is much

substantive there president can do to improve the economy between now and the election day. >> you mean because of the politics or because of the economics? or both? >> i would like to hear you weigh in on both. because of the politics. look, if -- if we -- had a trillion dollar stimulus bill that passed through you would see unemployment go down. you would see gdp growth go up. that's not going to happen. in the confines of a house that's not going pass anything they think is going to help the president get re-election is there anything he can do substantively to improve the economy? >> you know, without the participation of legislative branch, there is not a whole lot you can do. a lot of talk about addressing the housing crisis. some of which can be done by the executive branch alone. it is still sort of shocking to me there happens than been a lot of movement on that front because the housing crisis, you know, besides being this well-known household buzz word at this point, it affects so many parts of the economy. people feel poor so they don't spend. entrepreneurs who often borrow against their homes to finance

their new companies can't do that either. so there are a lot of things tied up with the housing crisis besides sort of this sentimental attachment to people's homes and that are not being addressed and a lot of economists think that if -- had they been addressed several years ago there would have been major progress in the economy and might still be hope that that can be moved now as well. >> the message, i think, clearly -- exactly right. one of the things people talked about are massive refinancing of all the mortgages better now held by the entity that has fannie and freddie in receivership. the problem with that is there is a person running that entity who has to sign off on it and not that interested in doing it. because he has a if i hfiduciar, he says, to actually make sure they perform. he is not there to do social policy. that's the obstacle. >> not only that, also the -- refinancing isn't going to solve the entire problem either because principles in the cases

are worth more. >> you said something that's technically correct, of course, if i had usua fiduciary responsibility. economists on both the left and right agree that exactly this point you don't write down the principal, consumers generally will not be able to begin to go back into the mark it and spend in an important way long term. it is a mess. >> here is one from the right who doesn't agree with that at all. okay. how much more damage are we bogey to do to the housing market in the name of ownership or of reviving the price structure than the -- damage we have done over the last 30, 40 years? >> i just want to be clear. mitt romney said when he was in nevada, howing market has to find the bottom fame usually. you are saying that's right. >> government needs to get out of the way. and we need to recognize two principles and then we will make headway. one, no virtue in ownership over

renting. if poor people can't afford housing services they need then that's an income transfer payment. we should give them cash. when we tried to get into this complicated housing market and fiddle and adjust and prop up and mitigate, we simply make a lot of windfall profits for automatic kinds of housing than rates. >> ron paul beaming momentarily into the body. >> a lot of what you are describing is something that actually economists are suggesting like making it's easier for banks to turn homes that they -- foreclosing on. i was going to say occupy. that's another -- turning those into rentals. that's what you are talking abo about. >> banks can do that if they wanted to. what he is talking about subsidize the banks for now. we don't need to do that. >> but public housing which was the housing for people on the brink of homelessness and was

about providing rental housing for low income people has been taken down, destroyed, cleared. removed. by both republican and democratic administrations over the past 20 years. so the -- notion that people could sort of move into a rental market which, by the way, i should think is reasonable. the notion that everyone should be owning or that ownership even makes sense in the -- current economic market where people have to move and work verse to move. the problem is that the spaces where one may be automobile to rent is -- i mean, just -- >> undersupply of rental housing. >> absolutely. fwoft policy. >> we should also -- >> the rental market is beginning to move. the rentals. >> the point in time we said to the banks you have a solvency issue, we gave an enormous access to cash. what we should have done back then, quid pro quo, then we would rebalance the economy.

even now we do tonight a way -- look, we will give you an equity interest in the houses on the upside. we are not doing this -- >> what we did was we said we are going give you all this money and pit back at the fed and never used it. they have taken the spread by -- the savers, pressuring the savers. >> agree. same thing. >> wait a minute. but wait a minute. >> i'm not done agreeing with you. >> wait. i want to you fun their thought after we take a break. hold that thought. [ monica ] i'm away on a movie shoot and it hasn't been going exactly as planned. cut. cut! [ monica ] i thought we'd be on location for 3 days -- it's been 3 weeks. so i had to pick up some more things. good thing i've got the citi simplicity card. i don't get hit with a fee if i'm late with a payment... which is good because on this job, no! bigger! [ monica ] i may not be home for a while. [ male announcer ] the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries.

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. we are talking about the president's state of the union address tuesday. the economic message he is giving may -- clearly the white house as well aware the economy is the driving issue and major contrast they want to draw with whatever republican member wins the nomination. it has been the core of the

economy's weakness, slowness to recover, the deleveraging, household deleveraging going on. i cut you off mid sentence. finish your point. >> the fed crushed the savers of america with zero interest rates. $300 billion a year going to the banks out of the highs of the old people and the savers and mid class. they didn't use that money to write down their bad housing assets. >> they being the banks. >> but what they did was use it to rebuild their retainer and get their book value up just high enough so they can pressure the treasury and in the white house to allow them to start paying dividends and moving stock buybacks again. that happened last march. jpmorgan in huge stock buyback in dividend payments out of the money that was wrestled from the savers of america. that's the policy. >> okay. >> move on. that's a notion of the savers of america. and part of the reason that the savers of america doesn't resonate is because there are so

few savers in america and that that was in part that -- in part the driver of our economy. that our economy is driven in part -- so largely by -- >> last 10 to 15 years. >> consumption. and i think what i find sort of most obscene about that reality is that post-9/11 as we move flood an era of war we were asked by our government to consume and not to save. when we have previously been asked in the context of war to be savers and to represent our patriotism by sort of stockpiling so we could have something. that's right. we were -- don't be prudent and go out and save, save, save. part of -- i think part of the reason the government has responsibility here is because the government is in part responsible for how we were told to behave in the decade of war that followed september 11. >> i want to turn to slightly related topic which is the fact that -- it is conceptually distinct but all 50 attorneys

general in the united states have opened up investigations on the banks' foreclosure practices. complicated story i tried to tell on television a number of times with not a tremendous amount of success. more or less, what was happening was banks were foreclosures on properties that they didn't even own and on properties without the actual legal note, bank note, said we own this loan. and the foreclosure problem was actually a symptom of the true rotten cause. the rotten cause was when the securitization machine was going as fast as it possibly can go, people weren't being real careful about the chain of custody of the bank notes. mortgage notes were just being thrown together and packaged and a lot of the letter of the law was not obeyed to. so what happened is that we found out the banks -- when it came time to foreclosure had to go back and sign affidavits, say yeah, we can own all this this and have this. this precipitated investigation by every one of the attorney

generals into the banks. there have been negotiations ongoing between the largest banks and the attorneys general represented by tom miller of iowa about reach something kind of settlement and there have been i did centers from the negati -- dissenters. they don't want a settlement if it allows the banks to escape accountability. sean donovan, the head of hud, under president obama, meeting, believe, with a number of attorneys general tomorrow. we think the reporting indicates to -- talk about the terms of a deal they want to announce in the state of the union. elliott, former attorney general, i -- i wanted to hear you weigh in on your thoughts on this. if this goes back to it looks like it is going to few zbligs short answer, i don't know. i have spoken to a number of folks who are involved enormous pressure being applied by the white house, justice, hud, ags, to acquiesce to a deal, announce

the state of the union. based on everything i heard as a deal they should say very simply no, no, no, no. here is the problem. banks are getting enormous exclusion from liability. they have not written down the mortgage face value when they should have. there is a promise there will be an investigation after the fact. cart before the horse. banks should be told right now, facedown of the value. transfer to the banks being egregious, outrageous, wrong. federal white house to weigh in on this is wrong. ags should stand up for the white house and up high and say no deal. >> i don't think there will be a deal if there are dissenters. i can understand dab usual absolutely right. white house is thinking well if we can get in terms of the deal of $15 billion for mortgage, reduction, i agree. i think that's what's the driving force is. what you should know for the ne news week ahead coming up next. . is this where we're at now, we just eat whatever tastes good? like these sweet honey clusters...

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but right now it is time for a preview of "weekends with alex witt." >> what happened, everyone? gop race turned upside down by gingrich's drubbing of mitt romney in south carolina. this morning, both candidates are talking about last might and we are going the hear from them. inside the exit polls who exactly voted for gingrich and why, you may be is your praised by the numbers we are going to share. five minutes to midnight, the doomsday clock ticks poured. well, doomsday. what's different this year? one hint, it is in the just about nuclear war anymore. >> thanks a lot, alex. what should you know if for the week coming up? >> you should know this gop primary race is now wide open. you should know that gingrich's lack of money can be quickly overcome in the super pac era when a billionaire buddy can cut his super pac a check. you should know gingrich made $3 million according to his 2010 tax returns and lived within the most inner sank up the of

washington's power brokers for decades. you should know gingrich's secret weapon in south carolina was the endorsement he got from chuck norris and you should know this is how he made it happen. you should know the next republican primary will be held in florida on tuesday, january 31. mitt romney is already among there. 538 blog updated before last night's results projects romney winning about 46% and santorum at 15%. but if the next ten days on the campaign are anything like the last ten days, you should know that's liable to change. you should know that as the president prepares to give his third state of the union address, there are mounting signs from hotel vacancy rates to latest manufacturing output numbers the u.s. economy is edging towards genuine recovery. you should know financial crisis in europe couldn't do that very quickly. you should know underprovisions of current law if the practical government just does nothing, the federal budget deficit will decline very rapidly in the next

few years. you should also know there are indications that during the state of the union address the president will address a settlement between the government and biggest banks over the banks' appear enwidespread mishandling of foreclosures. you should know the advocates have been following negotiations fear the terms of settlement will be far, far too lenient towards banks that appear to have engaged in system at yuck and widespread fraud and abuse. you should know pending investigations of the banks' foreclosure practices is the single biggest point of leverage citizens and their government wield to finally and for the first time hold the banks to account for the misery and pain that they have caused. republicans of indiana pushing a lot of kill-off unions in the state labor movement is considering organizing protests during super bowl xlvi and indianapolis in two weeks. should know they could use solidarity from the nfl players union. as you watch tomorrow night's republican debate on nbc, you should know in the 16 major debates this season, president obama's name has been mentioned 560 times. ron ad reagan's, 27221 times.

the two-term president who preceded the current october pant of the office, the man more responsible than any other for the mess we find ourselves in, george w. bush, has been only name checked 56 times. a tenth as much as president obama. winter weather has come to much of the u.s. you should know most of the country will experience abnormally warm weather next week. temperatures 6 to 10 degrees above normal in the eastern u.s. during what's usually the coldest month of the year. you should know the evidence of a warming planet is all around us if you look. you should also know more than half of the weather reporters don't accept the science on man-made climate change and 27% think global warm sing a scam. according to a study done by george mason university in 2010. you should know a new campaign called forecast the facts is petitioning the american meteorological society to vote next week for a strong climate change statement that confirm it is science of climate clang. you should know our chuck rich graphic of a matchup between famously hard to kill horror

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our guests are back to tell us what we should know os the news unfolds this week. eliot spitzer, what should people mow? >> most important thing, giants/49ers. if the 49ers win, it will be the 11th year in a row with a separate nfc champion. we're going to break that record. i say the giants are going to win. college roommate for that

factoid. an amazing thing in sports. though that may not -- >> sports talk for a second. eli manning having an amazing, amazing playoff run. it's really occurred to me and i can't believe we now literally are having unironic sports talk. a franchise quarterback puts you contention every year. it makes a difference as you know from new orleans and drew brees. >> this conversation is making me close to homicidal. but that said, eli manning, as a new orleanian out of new orleans, that at least we have eli. we're allowed to root for eli because of our crowd. >> moving on. >> what should folks know most? >> we're talking about the gop primary and the sort of form content question about who can

do the populous talk. the fact is that the gop field, the remaining gop field is monolithically atrocious on questions that impact americans. which is to say, wealth inequality, reproductive rights, immigrants and immigration, questions, common sense immigration questions. this notion that this constitutes populism requires you to think it's not what it is. the immigrants of in this country, this field is monolithically atrocious. >> one of the most bizarre policy ideas is is newt gingrich idea for immigration. the community review boards. someone on twitter said you can make a great and horrifying reality show out of that. can you imagine being brought up by your neighbors -- >> by the way, you don't have to imagine this. this is precisely how the few african-americans voted under the jim crow laws were able to vote. they got sponsors in the white community who allowed them to do

that. booker t. washington, his ability to be part of the process was because he had white sponsors. i'm a real broadcasting professional, what should folks now. >> my parents will be happy. >> i'm sorry. mr. and mrs. rampell. >> what should we know? i would say that the most important thing is that there are 6 million people long-term unemployed. we are at an all-time high in average number of weeks of duration for the typical unemployed person, 41 weeks. it's never been that high since 1948 when we started keeping track. i really want to see obama talk a little bit in his state of the union speech about how we keep those workers attached to the economy and attached to the labor force. the longer somebody is out of work, the harder it is for them to get back in. >> the degree of human capital. it degrades where it's more and more difficult. obvious and mundane innings. software changes.

the software that you were able to use expertly 18 months ago, after 18 months it's a different version of that software and you have to be reintegrated. >> it's also your social network. if you're in sales, you lose your client, they move away. you basically are lost from the position that you held in the economy. if you don't think that unemployment is structural now shall the risk of it becoming structural is much greater because these people basically being unemployable at some point. not only because of skills, but stigma. david stockman. >> as a country, we're broke. >> that is not true. >> three big things need to be done. dismantle the warfare state and get out of this adventurism. second, we need to raise taxes across the board in a major way to pay for the welfare state that we seem to want, both parties. finally, we're in such dire shape, we need to get rid of

discretionary activity, the ag department and small business. those need to be done. you'll have a state of the union address which will not suggest any of these three things. obama may talk about taxes for the rich. but that doesn't even begin to cover the issue. you're going to hear republicans who are actually advocating the opposite. the lead candidate now wants to build up the warfare state, no shrink it. >> cut taxes. >> he wants to cut taxes, not raise them. had it comes to the middle class agencies, i don't think he'll scrap those. >> i want to thank my guests today. eliot spitzer, melissa harris-perry, launching her own show on february 49 right after up. catherine recommend pell and former reagan budget director, david stockman making his first appearance today. thank you for joining us. you can catch us next weekend at our usual times. saturday morning at 7:00 eastern time and sunday at 8:00. our guests next week include

rolling stone contributing editor, michael hastings. author of the operator, the wild and terrifying inside story of america's war inside afghanistan. steve cone will be returning to the program. check us out online for more info about upcoming shows. alex witt is up next. we'll see you next week here on up. [ female announcer ] if whole grain isn't the first ingredient in your breakfast cereal, what is? now, in every box of general mills big g cereal, there's more whole grain than any other ingredient.

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