from new york i'm chris hay hayes. we have been talking about last night's south carolina primary results with former new york governor and attorney general eliot spitzer. catherine of the "new york times." former reagan budget director david stockman. newt gingrich won the south carolina primary last night

handedly winning 40% in the vote to mitt romney's 28%. one of the more surreal elements of the south carolina race was the presence of the stephen colbert/herman cain team. talking about his presence in south carolina. this is him on "morning joe" talking about -- play an ad which is -- he has this running shtick about how he created a soorper pac and handed it over to jon stew art and not coordinating and the entire thing is just perfect absurdities of campaign finance law in the wake of the citizens united decision. here he is on "morning joe." >> my staff did not make that ad. jon stuart's staff made that add and they used to work for me on my super pac. hired them away from my staff and can work in my building with other members of my staff working on my exploratory committee. we keep them separate.

we are seeing the super pacs play xwrout side this role in the election. when you think about in the pre-super pac area, gingrich will have a hard time in fund-raising. he does have an lot of money. maybe he wakes up today and says here's $10 million. play in florida. as new world. it seems to me that, you know, if that's the case, sheldon can personally sponsor newt gingrich by giving money to a super pa consider in unlimited amounts you wonder what it is like if gingrich were elected president and he need ad favor on a casino piece of legislation, i think that call would definitely get taken.

>> he is of diminutive stature. he was asked do you feel bad that you are short. me said when i'm sitting on the wall i'm the tallest man in the world. he is the tallest man in the world this morning. we are going to have to have a constitutional amendment, i believe that restructures how we do our elections and fund our election process. if we don't that we will drift down the road what we see in the primaries, crony capitalism and resentment of the 90%. >> i love the way you carve out your own version of occupy.

>> the system was broken long before. now i will say something a ply in the interest o -- fly in the ointment. your first amendment rights which i don't think you would give away for anything are derivative. the point is that you have -- the editorial page, rafrp chel maddow, they are owned by corporations. i think we have a deeper philosophical issue we have to address before we say citizens unite

united. >> it was already on its last legs. mortally wounded. >> put on the last legs by barack obama. george w. bush opted out -- >> in the general. in the primary, john mccain opted out. >> public finance is the way we should go. >> i'm sorry. i need to hit a pause button. the idea citizens united is no big deal. we were in a secular drift towards the problematic causes. sure, and yet, this -- the notion that president obama's campaign was the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of campaign finance problems and the citizens united is sort of incidental. i think it is deeply problematic. >> why?

>> citizens united. >> wait. what we have seen in the past -- what we see in the past is not incremental and what we have seen in the past two years in terms of the effect has not been. the very -- very candidacy of newt gingrich is emblematic that it is not. >> hold on. let me say something. $5 million check written bay by a loan billionaire to go to air in south carolina is more than an incremental change. it wasses entry entirety of the media. >> you are missing the point. in so many prior campaigns, almost the entirety of the advertising comes from the same special interests. this was not different. >> one individual. >> so what. >> it is not a democracy. >> power of money to influence the debate has been a pervasive problem for years. >> money had to be collected from multiple individuals. not given by one. >> it could have been one corporation, one union. >> no, it was than. no, it was than. that's not opened up. >> it was. it was in terms of the way it was done. >> this debate has been going on for four years. first thing that worked out on capitol hill is a young guy 1970 with common cause, campaign

finance reform, and with udall. my boss. the problem was pervasive then. fundamental issue that came up with the schemes was free speech. every time you came up some way to regulate the election process, you ran into free speech. we have been struggling with that ever since. last decision finally was the nail, last nail in the coffin. you are not going to solve this problem and give the public finance only and give the corporations and special interest groups and money out of dominating our political process unless we have a constitutional amendment that basically mandates public finance of campaigns and free speech for a period of time during a campaign by candidates and their organizations. >> so -- to the extent that -- extent that you are -- have you absolutely indicated sort of this long trajectory what i find distress sing this idea that an individual campaign -- that of president obama or bush or any

of them previously, candidates played within the system that's open to them. we do not expect candidates -- any more than we expect mitt romney to pay more in taxes than legally required, we do not expect candidates to react in a hyper-ethical way. these are the reforms we think they should have. we expect them to use the laws that exist to raise their candidacy. what i will say relative to citizens reminded, we are undoubtedly voting for the next -- combination of what the next supreme court will look like. one of the things we have to keep remembering as we move forward not just a court. court's composition changes over time. the sorts of choices that are made -- >> let me -- lay out my -- first of all, in terms of barack obama killing off a campaign finance, obviously i think the decision -- first time in the general to not take matching funds was a big mistake. it marked a break. more than anything press imitated by particular there

internet and ways in which you can raise money blew the door off of what was possible. he was sort of playing within -- made a calculus and probably made the right one. in terms of citizens united the thing that's troubling, scenario i spelled out before on the show is -- you know, there is now the -- the hammer that hangs over everyone which is this. you are going to vote against carried interest. we are going to get together and make a super pac and i'm going to spend -- you just walked off to the chairman in the house and go into his office and spend -- we are going to meet and these three here, our private equity firm, we are going to spend $10 million in your district to destroy you if you do -- if you bring this deal. that was not possible. that does matter. >> i'm going to sound very close to first amendment -- that's the first amendment. if i own a newspaper, i want to be able to spend all of the money i have got to my last printing newspapers and saying to people here is why what you are doing is wrong. that is the first amendment. i don't want somebody saying to me you can't print your newspaper to take this editorial

position which is exactly what "the new york times" does. imagine if the supreme court said to "the new york times" you can't run editorials in the two weeks before because you are spending x dollars on those editorial. >> that's the point. that's the point. let's -- fine. let's rerun the thought experiment. those three, deep in my imaginary equity gentlemen, there was nothing precitizens united stopping them and buying the network and putting them on. they aren't. it is different. that's the point. that's the point that it is different. different than the conversation that happens in the room. conversation that happens in the room, $10 million ad buy in your district is different than going and buying a newspaper. we will be right back in talking about this after the break. so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no! but it's more money.

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citizens united, i don't want to belabor this too long. but i -- exchange is important. i just want to have one more -- close the loop on this one part. i will -- no. i'm actually going to give thank you last word. here's what i want to -- hear you say before we turn our attention back to mitt romney who is having a bad sunday morning. okay. so there's not citizens united is nothing new. it interprets first amendment law correctly. all that stuff is protected on the first amendment. i will concede that. what's the solution if that's the case. >> the solution is -- vastly greater transparency and david was talking about one six-year term for the presidency. there is a fundamental -- interesting concept. i don't know if we go there, parliamentary system. radical ideas out there. what the public has got to appreciate is this is a fundamental tension between our desire to limit the amount of influence that wealthy people have which is crazy outrageous corrupt and i was in that system. it is awful.

versus the very core notion that -- first amendment level that you have the right to sit here and a company owned by comcast, rachel maddow and between don't want anyone limiting your capacity to speak. >> on the transparency point if you look back and read the citizens united decision a lot of it talks about so long is there is transparency and know who is paying for various ads and that sort of thing, you know, all is right in the world. >> i think transparency is not a panacea. >> there is none right now. >> getting a sense. >> i want to turn now to mitt romney because we have -- talked mostly about gingrich in the first hour of the program. mitt romney -- you know, what went wrong from mitt romney in this past week. we -- he -- i mean, lot went wrong for him. >> everything. >> anything with a tactical error. he is a victim of the trap that republicans set for themselves. over the last ten years, they

have been reducing every kind of tax rate that's on the top 10% that you can imagine, dividends, capital gains, estate tax. that's what they stand for. that's what the public sees. and now come along and a candidate who is benefiting enormously from that because he did -- he was a citizen like everybody else. suddenly the whole thing is in living technicolor as mr. 1%. that's kind of an irony. he's actually a very solid candidate but he now has wrapped around his neck the -- legacy of a policy that the republican party hoist order the country. >> sure. fallen candidate but not a good campaigner. the fact is that one could be a member of the 1%. one could be the -- george bush. if you are a great combiner, if when you say the word unemployment it does not stick in your throat like you never said that before, i mean, one can be quite wealthy and the --

son of a former president or -- the cousin of one. any of those things and still be able to effect a populist message. they are responding to form as content. >> yes. i think that it is interesting that he -- made a tactical decision to play -- except -- play a clip in second. romney had this problem from the beginning. he was a massachusetts moderate and he was going to appeal to a primary bunch of republican voters in a tea party mood. that was always the problem from the beginning. signed massachusetts health care are model for affordable health care, et cetera. i think they thought the way they were going to get around that was choose certain issues they can go hard right on immigration is one of them. any time immigration comes up, you see romney light up. i'm going to get you. >> exactly. >> particularly on the right right. centrally they thought look, we can't appeal to this sort of kind of cultural animus with same dexterity other candidates can. what we can do is appeal to the kind of cult of success, the --

rhetoric of i'm successful and i'm a business man and that's going to play well and republicans. usually it does. here he is talking and what happened is with the bain attacks, there was a taboo broken, think by gingrich and santorum and all of a sudden he had to look around and found himself being attacked from the very thing he thought was his strength in the republican field and here is him bitterly denouncing that last night in his speech. >> we cannot defeat that president with a candidate that joined in that very assault on free enterprise. when my opponents attack success and free enterprise, they are not only attacking me, they are attacking every person who dreams of a better future. those who pick up the weapons of the left today will find them turned against us tomorrow. that's the choice our party gives us, america.

or else we don't offer them any choice at all. >> weapons -- i like that phrase. >> maybe we can name my new show that. we are still looking for a name. >> he made so many tactical mistakes this week. he should have said here are my tax returns. here is what i paid. get them out there and then make that full-throated defense of the economic system he believes in, would have changed the entire narrative of the week and he could have won. >> we have breaking news. mitt romney was just on fox and said he will release his tax returns on tuesday. i don't have any indication of whether that is just the -- last year's 2011 tax returns presumably or whether he is going to do the full 12 years like his father -- john king asked and he said moment. one of the most awkward moments i have ever seen in a debate interview.

do you want to say something, david? >> no, i'm just saying that -- this isn't about free enterprise. newt -- he made a huge mistake. he was in the financial speculation business. that's what lbos are about. they are not building businesses or creating jobs. they are about massively leveraging up companies, script minding out for cash, producing returns where -- small number of investors and moving on. and he -- made a tactical mistake by saying this qualifies me to run the country today when -- because i have learned all this. >> here is the other inning thing about it. he chose -- i think the other corner he painted himself into very interestingly is that he -- he -- he was the governor of a state. right? he has actually executive experience and can never talk about it because of the health care issue. so all he talked about where were 15 years at bain. he was fairly popular governor in massachusetts. and he has a record that he could run on but because of the health care issue literally you never hear a word out of his mouth. >> talk about bain now either. so right now he has a 30-year problem. >> he permitted the other side

to frame that debate and by being passive both on the tax issue and on -- he sat there talking body blows for three days, let the momentum get away. tactics of the campaign. he could have changed the entire dynamic of the week monday and tuesday. >> i think elliott is right about -- about the fact that this was about offense versus defense. that moment when john king asked that question of newt gingrich and this should have been a moment when gingrich was on defense and no, he goes -- immediately on offense and all of a sudden that whole narrative about the ex-wife and that changes because he goes on the offense. so had the -- i don't know, maybe i will be as good as my dad. but instead it had been -- actually you will see those later tonight. pulling them together now. ten years i'm going to be better and give you 20. right? had it been something different, i think that's right. he could have spun that narrative different. >> i other candidate in the race, the one that will get the nomination for sure, of course, is president obama, democrat. his state of the union speech is two two days away.

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some are here on my panel. as republicans circle in on choosing a nominee or not, the president makes his state of the union address on tuesday. here is a preview sent out tellingly by his campaign organization. >> tuesday night i'm going to talk about how we will get there. i'm going to lay out a blueprint for competent that's built to last. american manufacturers, more good jobs and products stamped with made in america. american energy, fueled by homegrown and alternative energy sources. skills for american workers getting people the education and training they need so they are ready to take on the jobs of today and tomorrow. most importantly, a return to american values. fairness for all and responsibility from all. >> giving a preview of what the message will be. you are an economics reporter. one of the things i think really is interesting in the dynamic area is -- it is very hard to

imagine that there is much substantive there president can do to improve the economy between now and the election day. >> you mean because of the politics or because of the economics? or both? >> i would like to hear you weigh in on both. because of the politics. look, if -- if we -- had a trillion dollar stimulus bill that passed through you would see unemployment go down. you would see gdp growth go up. that's not going to happen. in the confines of a house that's not going pass anything they think is going to help the president get re-election is there anything he can do substantively to improve the economy? >> you know, without the participation of legislative branch, there is not a whole lot you can do. a lot of talk about addressing the housing crisis. some of which can be done by the executive branch alone. it is still sort of shocking to me there happens than been a lot of movement on that front because the housing crisis, you know, besides being this well-known household buzz word at this point, it affects so many parts of the economy. people feel poor so they don't spend. entrepreneurs who often borrow against their homes to finance their new companies can't do that either. so there are a lot of things tied up with the housing crisis besides sort of this sentimental attachment to people's homes and that are not being addressed and a lot of economists think that if -- had they been addressed

several years ago there would have been major progress in the economy and might still be hope that that can be moved now as well. >> the message, i think, clearly -- exactly right. one of the things people talked about are massive refinancing of all the mortgages better now held by the entity that has fannie and freddie in receivership. the problem with that is there is a person running that entity who has to sign off on it and not that interested in doing it. because he has a fiduciary duty, he says, to actually make sure they perform. he is not there to do social policy. that's the obstacle. >> not only that, also the -- refinancing isn't going to solve the entire problem either because principles in the cases are worth more. >> you said something that's technically correct, of course, if i had u fiduciary responsibility. economists on both the left and right agree that exactly this point you don't write down the principal, consumers generally will not be able to begin to go back into the mark it and spend in an important way long term. it is a mess. >> here is one from the right who doesn't agree with that at all. okay.

how much more damage are we bogey to do to the housing market in the name of ownership or of reviving the price structure than the -- damage we have done over the last 30, 40 years? how much more damage are we bogey to do to the housing market in the name of ownership or of reviving the price structure than the -- damage we have done over the last 30, 40 years? >> i just want to be clear. mitt romney said when he was in neve, the housing market has to find a bottom. you are saying that's right. >> government needs to get out of the way. and we need to recognize two principles and then we will make headway. one, no virtue in ownership over

renting. if poor people can't afford housing services they need then that's an income transfer payment. we should give them cash. when we tried to get into this complicated housing market and fiddle and adjust and prop up and mitigate, we simply make a lot of windfall profits for automatic kinds of housing than rates. >> ron paul beaming momentarily into the body. >> a lot of what you are describing is something that actually economists are suggesting like making it's -- it's easier for banks to turn homes they are foreclosing on. i was going to say occupy. that's another -- turning those into rentals. that's what you are talking about. >> banks can do that if they wanted to. what he is talking about subsidize the banks for now. we don't need to do that. >> but public housing which was the housing for people on the

brink of homelessness and was about providing rental housing for low income people has been taken down, destroyed, cleared. removed. by both republican and democratic administrations over the past 20 years. so the -- notion that people could sort of move into a rental market which, by the way, i should think is reasonable. the notion that everyone should be owning or that ownership even makes sense in the -- current economic market where people have to move and work verse to move. the problem is that the spaces where one may be automobile to rent is -- i mean, just -- >> undersupply of rental housing. >> absolutely. >> we should also -- >> the rental market is beginning to move. the rentals. >> the point in time we said to the banks you have a solvency issue, we gave an enormous access to cash. what we should have done back then, quid pro quo, then we would rebalance the economy. even now we do tonight a way --

look, we will give you an equity interest in the houses on the upside. we are not doing this -- >> what we did was we said we are going give you all this money and pit back at the fed and never used it. they have taken the spread by -- the savers, pressuring the savers. >> agree. same thing. >> wait a minute. but wait a minute. >> i'm not done agreeing with you. >> wait. i want to you fun their thought finish that thought right after we take a break. hold that thought. [♪...] >> i wish my patients could see what i see. that over time, having high cholesterol, plus diabetes or high blood pressure or family history of early heart disease, can put them at increased risk for plaque buildup. and they'd see that it's more important to get their cholesterol where their doctor wants. and why for these patients, when diet and exercise alone aren't enough, i prescribe crestor. adding crestor lowers bad

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we are talking about the president's state of the union address tuesday. the economic message he is giving may -- clearly the white house as well aware the economy is the driving issue and major contrast they want to draw with whatever republican member wins the nomination. it has been the core of the economy's weakness, slowness to

recover, the de-leveraging, household de-leveraging going on. i cut you off mid sentence. finish your point. >> the fed crushed the savers of america with zero interest rates. $300 billion a year going to the banks out of the highs of the old people and the savers and mid class. they didn't use that money to write down their bad housing assets. >> they being the banks. >> but what they did was use it to rebuild their retainer and get their book value up just high enough so they can pressure the treasury and in the white house to allow them to start paying dividends and moving stock buybacks again. that happened last march. jpmorgan in huge stock buyback in dividend payments out of the money that was wrestled from the savers of america. that's the policy. >> okay. >> move on. that's a notion of the savers of america. and part of the reason that the

savers of america doesn't resonate is because there are so few savers in america and that that was in part that -- in part the driver of our economy. that our economy is driven in part -- so largely by -- >> last 10 to 15 years. >> consumption. and i think what i find sort of most obscene about that reality is that post-9/11 as we move flood an era of war we were asked by our government to consume and not to save. when we have previously been asked in the context of war to be savers and to represent our patriotism by sort of stockpiling so we could have something. that's right. we were -- don't be prudent and go out and save, save, save. part of -- i think part of the reason the government has responsibility here is because the government is in part responsible for how we were told to behave in the decade of war that followed september 11. >> i want to turn to slightly related topic which is the fact that -- it is conceptually distinct but all 50 attorneys general in the united states

have opened up investigations on the banks' foreclosure practices. complicated story i tried to tell on television a number of times with not a tremendous amount of success. more or less, what was happening was banks were foreclosures on properties that they didn't even own and on properties without the actual legal note, bank note, said we own this loan. and the foreclosure problem was actually a symptom of the true rotten cause. the rotten cause was when the securitization machine was going as fast as it possibly can go, people weren't being real careful about the chain of custody of the bank notes. mortgage notes were just being thrown together and packaged and a lot of the letter of the law was not obeyed to. so what happened is that we found out the banks -- when it came time to foreclosure had to go back and sign affidavits, say yeah, we can own all this this and have this. this precipitated investigation by every one of the attorney generals into the banks.

there have been negotiations ongoing between the largest banks and the attorneys general represented by tom miller of iowa about reach something kind of settlement and there have been i did centers from the -- dissenters. they don't want a settlement if it allows the banks to escape accountability. sean donovan, the head of hud, under president obama, meeting, believe, with a number of attorneys general tomorrow. we think the reporting indicates to -- talk about the terms of a deal they want to announce in the state of the union. elliott, former attorney general, i -- i wanted to hear you weigh in on your thoughts on this. if this goes back to it looks like it is coming to fruition. >> short answer, i don't know. i have spoken to a number of folks who are involved enormous pressure being applied by the white house, justice, hud, ags, to acquiesce to a deal, announce

the state of the union. based on everything i heard as a deal they should say very simply no, no, no, no. here is the problem. banks are getting enormous exclusion from liability. they have not written down the mortgage face value when they should have. there is a promise there will be an investigation after the fact. that puts the cart before the horse. banks should be told right now, facedown of the value. transfer to the banks being egregious, outrageous, wrong. federal white house to weigh in on this is wrong. ags should stand up for the white house and up high and say no deal. >> i don't think there will be a deal if there are dissenters. i should also say, i can understand usual is absolutely right. the white house is thinking well, if we can get in terms of the deal of $15 billion for mortgage ducks, i agree. is it fast?

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what you should know for the week ahead. but right now it is time for a preview of "weekends with alex you should also know that newt gingrich made $3 million according to his 2010 tax returns and lived within his most intersanctum of power breakers for decade. if -- you should know newt gingrich's secret weapon in

south carolina was his endorse many he got from chuck norris. this is how he made it happen. you should know the next republican primary will be held in florida on tuesday, january 31. you should know mitt romney is up on the air there. updated before last night's results projects romney winning with 46% and romney at ekd second and santorum at 15%. if the next 15 days are the last ten years you should know that's likely to change. there are mounting signs from hotel vacancy rates to the latest manufacturing output numbers the economy is actually finally edging towards financial recovery. financial crisis in europe could not do that very quick flip you should know under provisions of current law, if the federal government just does nothing, the federal budget deficit will decline very rapidly in the next few years. you should also know there are indications that during the state of the union address the president will announce a settlement between the government and biggest banks

over the bank's appearent widespread of foreclosures. you should know the advocates following the negotiations fear the terms of the settlement will be far, far too lenient towards banks and that appear to have engaged in systematic and widespread and abuse and you should know the pending investigations of the banks' foreclosure practices is the single biggest point of leverage citizens and government wield to finally and for the first time hold the banks to account for the misery and pain that they have caused. republicans in indiana pushing a lot of kill-off unions in the state. you should have labor movement considering organizing protests during super bowl xlvi in indianapolis in two weeks. you should know they can use solidarity from the nfl players union. as you watch tomorrow night's republican debate on nbc, you should know that in the 16 major debates this season, president obama's name has been mentioned 560 times and ronald reagan's 221 times. but the two-term president who preceded the occupant was office, man more responsible than any other for the mess we

find ourselves in, george w. bush, has been only name checked -- i'm sorry, 56 times. a tenth as much as president obama. while winter weather has come to much of the u.s. you should know most of the country will experience have normally warm weather next week. according to the forecasters. temperatures 6 to 10 degrees above normal in the eastern u.s. normally the coldest month of the year. you should know the evidence of a warming climate is all around us if you look. you should also know more than half of the weather reporters don't accept the science on man-made climate change and 27% think global warming is a scam according to a study done by george mason university in 2010. you should know a new campaign called forecast the sfakts petitioning the american meteorological society to vote next week for a strong climate change statement that confirms the science of climate change. you should know our chuck rich graphic matchup between hard-to-kill horror chukie and former speaker of the house is very popular on the internet with 587 likes and 271 shares on facebook since we posted

yesterday. you should know i'm more or less using that as an excuse to show the image because it cracks me up so much. my guests will come back and tell us what they think we should know this week right after this. living with the pain of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis... could mean living with joint damage. help stop the damage before it stops you with humira. for many adults with moderate to severe ra,

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♪ sunday afternoon, giants/49ers. the 11th year in a. we're going to break that record. giants are going to win. i say this is a rabid new york credit. and potentially separate nfc champions in 11 years.

amazing thing in sports. >> just to go sports talk for a second, eli manning having an amazing playoff run. it really occurred to me and i can't believe we're having an ironic sports talk, you really have learned the franchise quarterback puts you in contention year in, year out in the playoffs. >> as a new orleans this is making me close to homicide al. but that said, eli manning as a new orleanian, we're allowed to root for eli. >> what should folks know? >> all right. so we're talking about the gop primary. you know, sort of form and content question about what can do the populus talk. the remaining gop field is

monolithically atrocious, the questions that impact american which is to say weight inequality, immigrant and immigration common sense questions. this notion this constitutes pop limp is making you think pop limp is not what it is. working class women, people of color, the immigrants. >> my favorite, the one of the most bizarre policy ideas is these community review boards. somebody said on twitter you can make a great and horrifying reality show out of that. can you imagine bringing brought up by your neighbors. >> by the way, you don't have to imagine this. this is precisely how the few african-americans able to vote in the south under jim crow laws were able to vote. they got sponsors in the white community. booker t. washington, it was because he had white sponsors.

>> catherine redd-pell. what should folks know as we go into next week? >> what should we know? i would say the most important thing is that there are 6 million people who are long-term unemployed. we are at an all-time high in average number of weeks of duration for the typical unemployed person. 41 weeks. it's not been that high since 1948 when we first started keeping track. i want to see obama talk in his state of the union speech how we keep those workers attached to the economy and attached to the labor force. the longer somebody is out of work the harder it is for them to get back. >> the degree of human capital. we're reentering the labor force. i mean, even just obvious and mundane things. the software you were able to use expertly 18 months ago. it's a different version of that

software. >> it's not only technical skills. it's also your social network. if you're in sales, for example, you lose your clients. you basically are lost from the position you held in the economy. and if you don't think unemployment is structural now, the risk of it becoming structural is much greater because the people become unemployable not only because of skills but stigma. >> what should people know as he we head into this "newsweek"? >> they should know as a country we're broke. >> that is not roux. >> three big things need to be done. dismantle the warfare state and get out of adventurism. second, we need to raise tax across the board in a major way to pay for the welfare state that we seem to want, both parties. and finally, we're in such dire shape we need to get rid of discretionary activities like the ag business and stuff we don't need.

you'll have a state of the union address which will not suggest any of these three things. bow bam ma may talk about taxes for the rich, but that doesn't begin to cover the issue. and you'll hear republicans who are advocating the opposite. the lead candidate now wants to build up the warfare state, not shrink it. >> cut taxes. >> yeah, he wants to cut taxes, not raise them. when it comes to middle-class agencies, he'll scrap those. >> i want to thank my guests today. february 4th right after "up". and catherine rampell. and former director david stockman making his first appearance. thank you so much. i really enjoyed today's conversation. you can catch us next weekend at our usual times. saturday morning at 7:00 eastern time and sunday at 8:00. our guest next week is rolling stone contributing editor, michael hastings.

and democratic congressman steve cohen of tennessee will be returning to program. check in with up.msnbc.com. and we'll see you next week here on "up." copd makes it hard to breathe, so i wasn't playing much of a role in my own life, but with advair, i'm breathing better so now i can take the lead on a science adventure. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator, working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking advair. if you're still having difficulty breathing,

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