york daily news" slcolumnist s. cupp. we have been poll crazy here on now. a new cnn/orc poll shows that gingrich was leading romney by 6%, but romney is is up by nine points as of monday and tuesday of this week. what do you make of this? >> have you ever seen polls change this quickly? we have daily polls now that are actually fairly accurate. it's unbelievable. it seems as though, at least, in south carolina, it was the case, and it seems as though in florida, people are looking at what the candidates are saying on a daily basis and weighing in based on adds, based on what they've been saying on the stump, based on new revelations which keep coming out. i mean, these people are paying attention. >> and i would wonder if we think that mitt romney's new line of attack, if there's

actually some bite there. if that's taking some hits on gingrich. >> the thing to remember in florida is that 200,000 ballots have already been cast. so current polls, okay, but a lot of ballots were already cast before south carolina. >> early voting started last week. >> -- cast for mitt romney, you had the most aggressive early voting campaign. you probably add a little bit to his poll numbers. there's two things to say about newt. one is he never plays the front-runner role well. and we've seen two or three times now where he's risen and fallen. part of the reason is, that debate was pretty bad for him on monday, he didn't have his cheering section, and he was above the fray, and romney went after him like a junkyard dog. >> that's the only time mitt romney and junkyard dog have been butted up against. >> that's true. but i think he did, and i think he was pretty effective at it, at least the early portion of the debate. and now you have an orchestrated campaign on the right to go after newt gingrich. you see on the drudge report, pretty everywhere in the conservative media right now, ann coulter, anywhere you look.

eliot abrams is back from the crypt to talk about newt gingrich's bashing ronald reagan. there's an orchestrated attempt to get newt gingrich out of the race and it's having an impact. >> look at some of those conservative headlines of late. drudge says, insider, gingrich repeatedly insulted reagan. ann coulter, re-elect obama, vote newt! and this is, i think, my favorite, the american spectator, our bill clinton, that is not meant as a compliment. >> and there are two strains to this. one is what coulter and a lot of inside republicans have been saying, is the guy's not electable. that should be full-stop a problem if you want to defeat obama and it's something alex has spotlighted on the show. but the second piece to this has nothing to do with electability, and that is the guy's not a real conservative, the guy isn't trustworthy, guy is just a train wreck. not that he'll lose, but he's a train wreck, we don't want him to win. if you look at the energy in this race and go around and say to someone, you've got to vote for this guy you may or may not

like, you've got to do the electability thing. it is not what they want to hear in florida, which, by the way, was backing newt gingrich in polls from december all the way up to new hampshire. it's a very conservative environment down there, anyway, and i think you have to go to his character if you want to defeat him, not just electability. >> that's the point. because the republican sort of groupology is very mixed. you have establishment republicans who have to think about strategy. that's electability. not just white house, but down ballot. then you have tea party conservatives, who have to think about credibility. are you really credible if you elect this washington insider establishment guy? and then, of course, you have, you know, sort of far right social conservatives who have no business -- >> and s.e., the two candidates are so representative of the cleave in the republican party. politico has a good analysis of the crowds that support mitt romney and the crowds that are supporting newt gingrich. mitt romney's crowds look like something out of the president's

suite at a university of the football game. gingrich supporters with their spray painted signs, american flag tees, flip-flops and fanny packs more closely resemble a group that would fit in nicely playing a few books at the dog track. >> it's a great piece by my man, j. mart in politico. and it boils down what newt's appeal is, which is to the nascar vote, which is to the tea party vote. which mitt romney cannot tract. >> why do you say fanny pack vote? >> you don't think he attracts that vote? >> as a nascar fan and a tea party conservative, absolutely not. >> what about the fanny pack? >> no. let me tell you, i've traveled the country, and to a person, the response on why you like newt gingrich is you want to see him debate obama. conservatives are -- this is a bloodlust. this is entertainment value. and it could mark the demise of the conservative movement if that is what they vote on in november. >> let's talk a little bit about

how romney -- and we talk about gingrich, and of course we have to talk about romney in the same breath, because they are twin, their fates are twin. romney, it strikes me as odd, that no matter how long this thing goes on, the guy still has not found his comfort zone in terms of talking about his own wealth, his taxes. let's listen to him at a debate yesterday or a forum, sorry. >> how much money do you have? >> well, you tell me and i'll tell you. no, i'm kidding. it's between 150 and 200-some-odd million. that's what the estimates are. and by the way, i didn't inherit that. >> $50 million, you know, sometimes you lose track of it. >> well, this is a real problem for the republicans. with romney as their -- you know, newt gingrich is a rich guy too. newt gingrich made his money lobbying, as romney pointed out. newt gingrich is an inside washington guy. the country, the swing voters,

the american first democrats, as i call them, the working class voters, they are hurting. they are in trouble. and they don't understand why someone who's worth $200 million pays half the tax rate that they do. and it's not a question of envy, it's a question of fairness. >> and i think that's one of the reasons why you've seen ann romney, in fact, out on the campaign trail, almost excusing her husband's wealth or accounting for it in a way that he doesn't seem to be able to. >> and i think linda hit it on the head. and people say, oh, romney's never fully himself. i don't think that's true. when he said the other day, oh, i only -- $300,000 in speaking fees, not a lot of money. that was him talking, not a consultant talking, not a talking point. that was him talking, as someone who speaks the language of a super multi-millionier. $300,000, that's a rounding rohrer or. and that's before it gets funneled into the commercials. it strikes people as very out of touch, right? so there's this idea of, oh, is he steve jobs or is he warren

buffett? i've got to say, warren buffett, who's worth a lot of money, has always found a way to speak directly and -- >> warren buffett lives in nebraska and drinks coke. >> mitt romney is a man of money. there's no question about it. and he can say that he didn't inherit money, but he came from money, he has a ton of money, he's never known a life without a lot of money, and that's a problem from conservatives. >> but money has been a comfortable thing for mitt romney, from jump street, basically. >> it's uncomfortable for him to talk about. and he's never going to find a comfort zone to talk about it, because he doesn't have one. >> but it's remarkable that a guy who has paid his taxes completely legally and did everything legal has been unable to defend himself on this issue. six years into his campaign, he has not come up with a -- >> and you're seeing newt gingrich hit him over and over and over again. we have, you know, yesterday, talking about the cayman islands. but talking about the cayman islands, the swiss bank accounts. even this is the old guard trying to take me down.

i'm the insurgent. just finding mitt romney's weak spots is going for them. >> he's the insurgent. he's the insurgent with the $500,000 revolving charge account at tiffany's. he's the insurgent. >> the outsider. >> he's the real man of the people. >> he just wants to go and study history and make a couple million dollars doing it. >> he's just a kid with a dream. >> he is. we will be talking more about newt when we take a trip to the moon to determine what newt gingrich's pitch to create an extraterrestrial state says about his candidacy. that's next on "now." [ male announcer ] yep that's your mouth. and it's surprising what it goes through in the course of a day. but what's even more surprising is that brushing alone isn't enough to keep it clean. fortunately, you've got listerine. unlike brushing which misses 75% of your mouth, listerine cleans virtually your entire mouth.

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when we have 13,000 americans living on the moon,

they can petition to become a state. by the end of my second term, we will have the first permanent base on the moon and it will be american. >> florida is a toss-up right now, but newt gingrich would easily win the moon state primary. there is a lot to talk about here. let's put it in a little bit of context. the 13,000 american living on the moon is apparently part of a northern ordinance that newt gingrich proposed earlier in his career. this is almost someone who has a phobia of electromagnetic pulse attacks and has talked about space mirrors lighting the highways as well as lunar mining. how, ari, does newt gingrich keep getting away with this stuff? >> well, first of all, why do we stop at just the moon? i want to be serious for a second and say, why not the sun? >> why let heat stop us? >> we are a nation of inventors. >> why let flesh-searing heat stop us? >> this is something that both parties do, actually. i'm not going to defend newt gingrich, because it's bonkers, and of all the problems we have, i don't think a lack of a lunar

state is anywhere on the list. even if you want the nasa vote in florida. having said that. this is, this rhetoric comes up in presidential campaigns over and over. when i worked for john kerry, we were in living rooms in iowa and people would ask questions about corn and he would pivot and say, by the way, i think we should go to the moon right here on earth. i'm talking about a domestic infrastructure jobs program. and it was this sputnik rhetoric, and both sides do it, and it is this idea that the earthly matters we have to deal with as politicians are boring, but when kennedy sent us off to the moon and we were fighting with the soviets and improving all of our inventive abilities, that was an exciting time. so i think there is this nostalgia in the body of politics, and although i ridicule it, because it's ridiculous -- >> bonkers, i believe, is the official term. >> bonkers, it is a real thing, and it's not just limited to gingrich. >> it is also a real thing on the space coast of florida. we have to take into account the demographics of the people he's talking to. people at space canaveral are

worried about their industry because we're not going to the moon anymore. what he said is nuts and crazy and all that stuff, but -- >> but who did he offend? >> nobody's offended, but -- >> mars! >> the people who are offended are the people who know that we can't pay for that, and that it's all just empty talk. you know, conservatives like to talk about the deficit, but we're going to launch a new program to the moon? that's goofy. >> but this is a political pivot, because obama's shuttered the space program and a lot of republicans are upset about that for exactly the reasons that ari is discussing, that nostalgia for that exploration time. this is a direct response, i think to obama -- >> but it is worth mentioning in "the new yorker" story that brian lizza has up, president obama says, "as president, i will establish a robust and balanced space program that will lead in cob fronting the challenges we face here on earth." when he says that, i keep wanting mr. sulu to come on and

tell me -- >> with gingrich talking about this, there is absolutely the case for american ambition and the kennedy moment and the space program. but it plays into the idea that newt is both grandiose and totally loony. this is not a safe area for him to be in when he east fading in the polls in florida. it's safe in a small area, but plays into a bad narrative for him. >> and it also, as ari said, it also shows that newt will say anything. anything! >> and in that vein, we wanted to play a little bit of sound from his own appearance where he talks about the clinton impeachment and whether or not his behavior at that time was hypocritical, given the fact that he was having an affair. let's listen to that. >> people think that's hypocritical, to criticize president clinton for doing the same thing that you were doing at the same time. >> okay, there's some place here where there's a mental synapse missing. i didn't do the same thing. i have never lied under oath, i have never committed perjury, i have never been involved in a felony. he was.

>> wow. a mental synapse missing. >> he always calls people stupid. i don't get why he does that. >> what a jerky line. that was really -- even behind closed doors, that would kind of be a jerky line, but to say it in public when you're being, you know, taped, for one, you're in front of a live audience. >> and for when he may have exhibited the the jerky behavior -- >> say you disagree. and the fact is, it's enormously hypocritical for him to do what he's doing, because he made morality an issue. this whole nonsense about how clinton lied under oath, the whole point of that scandal was the sex scandal. it was all about private sexual behavior. nothing to do with this cooked up scheme to get him to be before a grand jury. nonsensical. completely and utterly hypocritical for gingrich to talk about -- >> and yet, and yet, gingrich earlier today calling mitt romney grossly hypocritical. let's listen to that sound. >> something so grotesquely hypocritical about the romney campaign that i think is just going to melt down over the next six or eight weeks as the

american people learn more about him. let's get it out in the open. he wants to run a campaign where he drowns me in mud with money he raises from people who are for closing on floridians. >> and never mind that gingrich's own campaign has gotten a $10 million infusion, one of the largest in history, from a casino magnate, who is now under federal investigation, it's almost like mental jujitsu. it's like he's been accused of a crime and just throws it right back at the interrogator and says, you're the one that committed the crime. >> well, that's the gingrich -- that's his history. i mean, going all the way back, my first book was on the revolution of '94. the way he became speaker was tearing down the democrats. the way he became speaker was, say anything, attack, don't just say the democrats are wrong on issues, say they're evil villains. i mean, this is the gingrich way. >> that was in the language, that was in memos that they would distribute. people used to say that karl rove was so brilliant because he would attack his opponent's strength, but that's only one level of it. the farthest level is to

actually project your weakness on to your opponents. you say, i brought it up, you're the hypocrite, you're the philanderer. >> you're the one living on mars. we'll talk more about this after the break and also discuss why jan brewer's tarmac confrontation with president obama may demonstrate a growing problem in american politics, the lack of respect for the more than president. that's next on "now."

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at the right price. liberty mutual auto insurance, responsibility -- what's your policy? the arizona tourism board probably won't be using this photo in its promotional materials. governor jan brewer and president obama got into a visual argument right after the president arrived in the state yesterday. worth mentioning that this

little kerfuffle, a word i use too often, actually, in the 21st century, was over a passage in brewer's book, "scorpions for breakfast," a compelling book title, and let's listen to what jan brewer said yesterday, explaining the confrontation on the tarmac. >> i wanted to be there to welcome him to come and see firsthand what arizona has done in regards to our economic recovery. he wanted to talk about the book. and i thought that he was pretty thin skinned. >> president obama thin skinned. s.e., what do you make of that? the visuals and then the commentary that the president is thin skinned? >> i've met governor brewer several times. she has not been one to, to mince words about the president. she's been very outspoken about her displeasure with the president when it comes to addressing the issues of import to arizona. >> or scorpions for breakfast,

her book. >> right. which i read and interviewed her about. she's very outspoken and vocal. that said, i don't like it when hockey players decide not to go to the white house, and i don't like it when sitting governors greet the president with a wagging finger. i don't think it's respectful. you can disagree and you can have valid policy complaints, but there's still an office there to respect. >> there is not a close call. this was inappropriate. she is there on the tarmac as a state official welcoming the president of the united states. there are many other political venues if she wants to make political points. what she is doing is inappropriately invoking the power that she wields as a state official to meet with the president, and then using that has a jump-off point to go off and complain about it. she did talk radio yesterday morning, she did tv, in the interview you just showed. this is not an appropriate way to jump off that reaction. if you read the pool report that was distributed, which is a neutral account from a traveling reporter, it basically said that she handed him a letter, tried

to ask for another meeting, and his response was, well, the last time we had a meeting in the white house, where he received her, official to official, he felt that she mischaracterized the meeting in her book. because at the time, they said it was perfectly polite. and then later in the book, she said that he spoke down to her. he replied that about the meeting. so this is just out of line. >> according to politico, the passage brewer writes, "it was as though president obama thought he could lecture me and i would learn at his knee. he thinks he can humor me and then get rid of me." >> she might be upset about that, but this is not the way to display that pique. you do not greet the president with a wagging finger, you show him with respect. we have an election that could be tea party versus occupy wall street. we're on these polarized sides of the fence. we don't need our elected officials playing into that by making a photo op with a meeting of the president and treating him this way. it is emblematic of a culture that's completely divided and it's shameful. >> but particularly around president obama, there's this feeling of license that a lot on

the right feel they have to attack him personally and to get really up close with their attacks, whether it's rick santorum not defending the fact that president obama is a christian, that he is an american-born citizen that deserves to the legally hold the office of president, whether it's jan brewer accosting him on the tarmac. i think it's something about obama that sort of engenders this personal ire. >> i think that's right. newt gingrich, on the trail, never says "president obama," he just says "obama." and the visual, obviously, was bad of the wagging finger. on the other hand, i think the obama white house can be a little thin skinned. i think it's possible to have policy differences, i think it's possible to say, we disagree on certain things, and not go nuts. on another network, which i won't name, on the night of the state of the union -- >> there are other networks? >> a host referred to the president as the anointed one, on the night of the state of the union. that is beyond ridiculous. >> or even the banner that mitt romney spoke in front of in his

pre-buttal, one of six buttals, where he said, "obama isn't working," a play on "labor isn't working." but again, it's very personal. >> and there's a connective tissue to something you raised earlier in the show, that newt gingrich is so hypocritical. we need to stop make k the mistake of thinking that the extreme elements of the republican party are at all consistent on these issues. they are wildly inconsistent. there was an effort to delegitimatize the presidency of bill clinton, there was an unprecedented use and at times abuse of the investigatory powers of congress, which should be used for oversight, but not be used to torment political differences, and that went on and on and on. and when president bush came into office, there was an attitude that the president is the most important thing in the world that you can never disrespect in any way and ari fleischer came out and said, you better watch what you say after 9/11. and now that we have a new

president that was born in this country, but is accused of being born somewhere else because of the color of his skin, we have this. delaware attorney general beau biden is spearheading initiatives in his own state. we'll get his take on the president's new plan when he joins us live. that's next on "now." . as someone who uses insulin, i'm always looking for new ways to help me manage my diabetes. take a look at this. freestyle lite test strips? they need just a third the blood of onetouch ultra. really? and the unique zipwik tab targets the blood and pulls it in. wow! look at that! and you can get these strips for a $15 monthly co-pay simply by joining the freestyle promise program. alright! looks like i'm going to be testing

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it's been 3 weeks. so i had to pick up some more things. good thing i've got the citi simplicity card. i don't get hit with a fee if i'm late with a payment... which is good because on this job, no! bigger! [ monica ] i may not be home for a while. [ male announcer ] the new citi simplicity card. no late fees. no penalty rate. no worries. the morning crisis took center stage at the state of the union, a sign the president may be ramping his efforts up to crack down on fraud and help people stay in their homes. joining us now to discuss it is delaware attorney general, beau biden. attorney general beau biden, thank you for joining us. >> good to be with you, alex. >> so "the new york times" is reporting that our own state attorney general here in new york, schneiderman, will be heading up this task force, but that you have not yet signed on to the endeavor and are waiting

to see how efficient it may or may not be. i would love to get your thoughts on what the president is trying to do now, and overall how you'd grade him on his response to the foreclosure crisis in the states? >> well, i think the president's done a very good job. look, this task force that's been set up, a unit, as they're calling it, is a very, very positive development. anytime there's action points is important in this realm. we need to get to the bottom of what happened here. eric schneiderman and i have been working together for a long time on these issues. we have a joint investigation ongoing that well predates this. we look forward to working with our federal partners, who have we have been working with and talking to. the department of justice through lenny brewer and tony west in the civil division, i'm sure they'll continue to proceed and move on these investigations, not just on the servicing piece, but on securitization, origination, and really the mortgage finance history. so i have some questions about it. i'm hopeful it's going to be a very good thing and a positive

development. but, you know, the real issue is, how many prosecutors are going to be assigned to it? how many agents, how many fbi agents will be assigned to it? i'm very hopeful that will be a very meaningful, meaningful unit. and if it is, which i hope it will be, i'm happy to participate. >> i wonder, as we talk about the president's response, it's worth noting that he is going to be in nevada today, where 57% of home sales in the third quarter were from foreclosed homes. he was in arizona yesterday, where 43% of home sales in the third quarter were from foreclosed homes. certainly have the florida primary coming up, and michigan, in both states where the foreclosure crisis is acute. do you think that, just geographically thinking, that that lends itself to a better and more robust discussion on the foreclosure crisis? and i guess secondarily, do you think that there is going to be a long-term interest on this issue, given the import in terms of economic recovery in america? >> look, i think this is at the heart of the economic recovery.

that's why you saw the president talk about it last night. our economy is going to have an increased -- is recovering, but it needs to -- in order for it to recover more rapidly, the housing market needs to recover. because as any economist will tell you, it's the housing market that's going to lead us out of where we are. and we can't do it as rapidly as we need until we get the foreclosure mess dealt with. and the reality, alex is, and you've covered this, is that the foreclosure crisis does not need to be what it is. and that's why you see katherine cortez mastiff, she's been fighting this issue, because it's so deep and meaningful to her. she's on the leading edge of this. that's why she sued the banks early on before anyone had began, she was working on this and investigating this. the same is true for kamala harris, who i work with as martha coakley in massachusetts. these are tough ladies, tough attorneys general who are going

to town on this. and here's the issue, alex. foreclosures don't have to happen at the rate they're happening. you have people like mitt romney talking about kind of flushing this all down the toilet. the reality is that these servicing banks are incentivized to foreclose. that is, the banks that service this debt, they have an incentive to foreclose. it used to be the bank that held the note didn't want to foreclose because they didn't want to be in the business of holding real estate. well, these are being paid a fee for service. they're taking money from the borrower and passing it through the to the lender, and they're incentivized to foreclose. we've got to fix that. >> given the broad gop rhetoric with not interfering with business interests and leaving government alone, is there any impetus for greater action to be taken if we see a republican in the oval office? >> well, you know, i don't know. i think you'll see -- i don't think you'd see much of any

investigation if there was a republican in the oval office or in the department of justice. i applaud the president for getting this unit together, but there's been real action on the part of states, for now, for many, many, many months. there you see the servicing settlement being negotiated by tom miller. i happen not to think, i'm probably not going to sign on to it, because i think it doesn't go far enough. i think you'll see other attorneys general not sign on to it. look, the bottom line here on this, alex, is that when we're investigating this misconduct, the misconduct on servicing, the banks have admitted to, they've admitted to it, but the problem is is that the too big to fail banks, i believe, based on my interaction with them, believe that we are unwilling to peel back this onion. that is, i think that they are sometimes believe that we are more scared of getting to the bottom of this than they are. and that's a very bad place to

start any investigation. and that's why i've moved forward with filing a lawsuit against one of the kind of nerve centers of this industry. that's why you see martha coakley filing her lawsuit and katherine masto moving ahead. they need to know we're serious about this and that we have resolve and we're not scared to get to the bottom of this issue. >> if i could quickly ask you, mr. biden, why do you think that settlement is not worth signing on to? and is there an argument that at some point, the banks need to get some of this uncertainty behind them, make a settlement that will allow them to start loaning again and get the housing market moving again? why are you so opposed to this settlement? what is in that doesn't go far enough for you. >> those are tired arguments that the banks have been using that we need certainty in the market. i hear that a lot. >> it means lending money to people to buy homes, i guess. >> correct. and they are doing that and they can do that and they can do more of that. the reality is that the settlement, the settlement is simply not sufficient.

it doesn't provide a sufficient amount of accountability. it doesn't provide a sufficient amount of relief. and for me, it doesn't allow me to go forward with my lawsuit against an organization. >> what's enough in terms of what we should be giving to homeowners in their mortgages? what's enough money here? >> enough money is to make sure that people will begin -- i'm a little different. i'm not as focused on the money. i'm focused on accountability. i think the reason people are so angry, whether it be on the far right or far left, is that more people have gone to jail for this savings and loan crisis than have gone to jail in this. >> so who should go to jail? who's going to jail? >> well, with that's why i'm investigating. i don't stand out and stand in front of cameras and say who's going to jail until i've completed my investigations. it goes from fraud investigations to criminal investigations to investigations of consumer fraud. i mean, i'm a prosecutor and consumer protector. and so that's why i'm looking at everything from securitization to origination, as well as servicing. and i think you got to be able to do and look at all of them

before you make any or trdraw a conclusions. but to do one of these things a piece at a time is the wrong way to go about it. >> you know, i wonder. we have signs that -- i hesitate the use the word "green shoots," because certainly they've rec e receded into the ground before, but it looks like the american public thinks we're headed in a positive direction, as of this month, which is good news. and as we speak about the white house and efforts to move forward on accountability, certainly once the economy is stronger, that healing process, the accountability process might take wind or have some legs in a way that it doesn't necessarily right now and there is still so much detritus swirling in the air. baa thank you for coming on the show. coming up, independence day, what makes a voter an independent and who benefits most from their support? answers next on "now." ♪

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if you have questions about your current treatment, ask your doctor about reclast. 40% of voters heading to the polls in november identify themselves as politically independent, according to a gallup poll released this month. linda's new book is out and is the best book ever written on independents, "the swing vote." let's talk a little bit about what's in your book, linda, against the backdrop of 2008, where president obama, according to exit polls, won independent voters with 52% of the vote. mccain only had 44%. we know that they are sort of the chosen part of the electorate. and what's interesting in your book is you break down the notion of the independent voter into several different blocs, including npr republicans, facebook generation in colorado, america first democrats in ohio, and starbucks moms and dads in virginia. tell me, tell all of us a little bit about that. >> those are the four groups.

those are the four key demographics of the swing vote. so npr republicans would like mitt romney. npr republicans are the moderate, pro-choice, have a, you know, have a balanced budget, socially moderate republicans. who did vote for -- a big chunk of them did vote for barack obama last time around. then you have the america first democrats, who are -- the npr republicans are what we used to call rockefeller republicans. the america first democrats, my term, are what we used to call reagan democrats. those are really up for grabs this time. they did not go for barack obama in a big way in 2008. >> that's the hillary vote. >> that's the hillary vote. they liked bill clinton, day don't see barack obama as being very authentic. they don't identify with him that much. >> and demographically, i would assume, they're older, whiter, working glass? is that fair? >> that's right. male, yes. ohio is one of the states i focus on in the book. you find them in the rust belt.

then you have the facebook generation voters, the young voters, under 35. they, obviously, turned out in a big way for obama. i think they are not so much up for grabs as it's a question of will they turn out? are they as enthusiastic this time around? and i think that's a big question. a lot of them are looking for jobs, a lot of them are feeling the economic pinch, and they are disappointed that this wasn't as a post-partisan presidency that they thought it would be. and then, finally, of course, the real power swing voters are the starbucks moms and dads. >> who don't listen to npr. i'm just trying to -- >> no, no, some of them might. but they're the suburban voters. and they swing wildly. in 2006 they voted for the democrats. they voted for obama. 2010, they went, they swung more than ten points for the republicans. they were very disappointed in what was going on. now they are totally up for grabs. and the sale has not been made yet. they are -- they probably will

not decide until october. >> and maybe they will stay home. is that an issue? >> it could be. but the stakes are quite high. >> right. >> and i think these voters, they care -- the voters that i talk to, these centrist voters, they do care. i think it's a big myth that independent and centrist voters are just wishy-washy. they're not wishy-washy, they just -- somebody has their phone on. they just, they like some things that the republican party does, they like some things that the democratic party does. they're in the center. >> but i wonder, the inimitable chris matthews on this program yesterday said, look, the problem with the republican party is that newt gingrich and the tea party to a certain degree are dragging this party, the republican party, so far to the right, that come time for a general, it's going to be nearly impossible for them to come back to the center and have a message that independent voters are going to embrace. >> and there's also a question on the other side, if you look at president obama's state of the union address, a minimum 30% taxes, we're going to send a

ninja team in to investigate the banks, how does that play with suburban swing voters may not like that kind of rhetoric. >> he also had a message, though. i swear he's read my book, because he also had a message for the america first democrats. he talked about the jobs, he talked about tax credits for companies that create jobs here. he talked about taking away the tax benefit when companies move jobs overseas, which are two things i talk about. so america first democrats are hurting, factory jobs are disappearing, creating those jobs are vitally important to those kind of voters in ohio. >> and the equality argument, i think, is one that might transcend. >> it might, but how does that play to those starbucks people, who are not necessarily that interested in the class warfare type of argument and are not necessarily against wealth or have interested in seeing people's taxes go up. we don't live or die by whether the wealthy pay 15% or -- >> well, here's the thing. and i don't understand why the democrats aren't pushing this more. the last time that capital gains

were this low was during the great depression. that's the last time. in the reagan mirpadministratio who, of course, is a god to the republicans the -- sorry, i have to put my glasses on -- in the reagan administration, capital gains started at 20%, but the tax reform brought it up to 28%. it was only -- every time in the clinton administration, it was at nearly 30%. so the idea, where are the jobs. the idea that having a 15% capital gains tax rate creates jobs -- >> it's not about the capital gains -- >> but nor is it about truth. the republicans have said over and over again barack obama has raised taxes on the american public. a lie. >> absolutely a lie. >> so when we talk about the democrats should be arguing that point more forcefully, a lot of the factual information has not stuck in this campaign. it's worth mentioning, though, stanford university says, you know, just in terms of numbers, to win 2012, it's good enough

for democrats to split the independent vote, whereas republicans need to carry a clear majority. i think if we're talking about the president's strategy on this, they may think, well, we can, you know, exfoliate a couple independents, because we don't need numerically that vote as much as the republicans. >> it didn't work for gore, it didn't work for kerry. you know, bill clinton, obviously, we're not running in 1996 with a great economy and without the occupy wall street dominating the scene. but the last time a democrat won re-election, he won re-election on a more moderate, appeal to the swing voter, starbucks voter. not this people versus the powerful argument. >> people always mention gore, he did win more votes than the other guy. >> so you say. i don't think we actually know the answer. >> i mean, nationally, he did. >> but do we elect presidents on the popular vote? i think we have an electoral college. >> do we have time for another question. >> i don't think we really do. we'll be talking about what now

up next and maybe you can work that point cleverly into our next series of discussions. wisconsin governor scott walker is raking in big donations in his fight to beat democrats in a recall election. but wait until you hear where the money is coming from. details next on "now." yoo-hoo. hello. it's water from the drinking fountain at the mall. [ male announcer ] great tasting tap water can come from any faucet anywhere. the brita bottle with the filter inside.

we are moments away from president obama speaking about energy in las vegas. but first, it's time for what now? wisconsin governor scott walker is raising dollars and spending them ahead of his likely recall election. we know that the recall effort got apparently over 1 million votes. those are being verified right now -- or, sorry, signatures. we're saying, worth noting, that governor scott walker has been making a call to the moneybags in the intervening weeks. he has raised $4.5 million in the last five weeks, $1 million of that was from people.

how bad is it optically if scott walker is, in fact, recalled in terms of the dynamics of the 2012 race and the conversation about income inequality and labor unions? >> well, if you look at ohio and the vote that they had last fall, it just went overwhelmingly for the unions. and the republicans were like, okay. it was terrible. it was a big vote in favor of the unions. when you get police mad, when you get firefighters mad. >> teachers. >> when you get teachers mad, they get activated. and i think we're seeing the same thing in wisconsin. >> and it reminds people of who these unions represent, their the firefighters, keeping your community safe, teaching your children. s.e., you're looking on with a frustrate look in your eyes. >> well, the opposition to walker, about a million signatures on this petition. it's still about half the amount of the votes that the other side got. it's not like this overwhelming opposition. they have yet to meet the

threshold, where if this were a vote, it would go in walker's favor, but it might. and i think this is happening the democratic way. i mean, this is how it should happen. and i actually think he's being quite gracious about it. >> speaking of being gracious, michele bachmann has announced plans that she will be running for congress, less than a month after ending her presidential bid. what do we make of this? she has missed 91.3% of votes. does that affect her when she's running for congress? >> probably not in a big way, although people would like to think that it should. there's always this divergence in congress between what are called the workhorses and the show horses. and you can be a show horse without running for president. you can simply focus more on the relationships and coalitions you build outside of the body and being on tv and doing all the things as we see certain members do. everyone forgets, there's 435 members. and we only see, if you look at the stats, about 50 to 75 of them in any regular rotation on

national television. some of them are on because they're so important, pelosi and boehner are very important, because some of them are on because they make a point of being out there and being visible. she was one of those people, obviously, pbefore she ran and she'll continue to be that. that's what show horses do. they don't move a lot of votes inside the body. >> don't hate the show horse, hate the race. but let's talk specifically, she just ran for president. some folks said -- >> she did? >> she did. briefly. >> she won the iowa straw poll. >> the all-important iowa straw poll that's never actually predicted anything. >> but i wonder if she has increased capital because she's been a show horse or whether -- >> i think michele bachmann left at just the right time. i think this was a very smart decision for her. if she had extended her race much longer, i think this might have affected her ability to get re-elected. >> did she leave? >> -- absolutely right, that she's always been sort of a

rallier. >> she has known when to hold them and when to fold them. thank you again to ari, linda, s.e., and ben. that unfortunately does it for us today. i'll see you back here tomorrow at noon eastern when aisi'll be joined by john heilemann, and the "washington examiner's" mark tap scott. until then, follow us on ye old twitter machine @nowwithalex. hs with your buddies? lost your appetite for romance? and your mood is on its way down. you might not just be getting older. you might have a treatable condition called low testosterone or low t. millions of men, forty-five or older, may have low t. so talk to your doctor about low t. hey, michael! [ male announcer ] and step out of the shadows. hi! how are you? [ male announcer ] learn more at isitlowt.com. [ laughs ] hey!

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whee whee wheeeeeeeeeeee! pure adrenaline. whee whee wheeeeeeeeeeee! everything you love about geico, now mobile. download the new geico app today. whee wheeeeeeeeeeee-he-he-heeeeee! developing now on "andrea mitchell reports," will what happens in vegas stay in vegas? president obama in battleground nevada this hour, as our nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows that americans are more confident about the economy, but historic number of voters want to fire congress. we'll bring you the president's speech, live, coming up. plus, write your own caption for this finger-pointing exchange between president obama and jan brewer on the tarmac in phoenix last night. >> i wasn't angry at all.