people to heart attacks and stuff like that because of the drug abuse, but you could probably get high scores. >> massive scores and it applies to politics. it's all about the money. we have seen the two big money men today in las vegas. the great donald trump endorsing mitt romney. two millionaires and two peas in a pod. that's how they roll. that's how politics works here. >> you have sheldon adelson for newt gingrich and donald trump for mitt romney. and the rest of america can bugger off because it's an argument between two casino billionaires as to who is going to run the country. >> mind your language. >> i will talk to you next time. >> thank you so much. good thursday afternoon to you. i am dylan ratigan. we will have a great look at the

casino war brewing between sheldon adelson and donald trump and their support of two different presidential candidates. donald trump and shelley adelson at each other's throats. but first, we're on day two of our 30 million jobs tour. regardless of who the president is, if we don't reform taxes, trade, and banking in the belly of the beast here in washington, d.c., in order to get the 30 million jobs, we e need to have investment in this country and the debate we deserve on those issues if you're going to have investment. it's the sub text of the 30 million jobs tour. it's the reason why we have chosen our nation's capital for the week three location of this ongoing effort throughout the year to get the conversation started among our elected leaders. remember the issue of creating investment and 30 million jobs in america is not a left/right issue. it's the american issue. even the president acknowledges that the washington culture has

to change if we're going to have any chance of truly getting the debate america deserves. >> no matter what party they belong to, i bet most americans are thinking the same thing right about now. nothing will get done in washington this year. or next year. or maybe even the year after that. because washington is broken. >> joining us now is two friends of this program, two men i admire and trust. from different sides of the aisle, we do agree that we need to be working better with one another if we want to solve our country's problems. you can see senator bernie sanders and senator tom coburn. i thank you for joining us and agreeing to do so in this conversational fashion. we could fight about a million things. what would you say will be the thing that you think, senator sanders, that you're most likely

to agree when it comes to electoral dysfunction in america? >> i honestly don't know the senator's position, but i think it's clear to most americans that big money plays an extraordinary major role in the political process in this country on issue after issue. bills that come to the floor, the american people want to move it one direction and congress moves in another direction. for example, the american people are very strong about wanting to maintain social security, maintain medicare. big money interests want to cut those programs. people in congress are talking about that. i would hope that the senator would agree with me, that when you have a result of citizens united these horrendous super pacs pouring in huge amounts of money from a handful of billionaires, that they are making a bad situation in terms of legislation even worse. >> your thoughts, senator

coburn? >> well, i think bernie and i could agree we want to make sure medicare is there in the future. we want to make sure social security is there in the future. the problem is is how do we save them and how do we make the hard choices? i have a different view than bernie does on money and politics. i look at the state of virginia that has no limits on anything and they have some of the most open, fair, and highest participation rates of any state in the country. i think what you don't see is people honestly putting out what they think are solutions to problems because they are afraid they will get criticized. because the number one goal for most people in washington is to stay in washington. and whether that's presidents or senators or members of the house, i think the biggest mistake we have is we keep electing career politicians to represent us not because they don't have pure motivations but

because often times they lack real world experience with which to make the hard choices and make priority choices for the country. >> in the short term, the most obvious thing that's fascinating for me is watching the republican party advocate for transparency in money for politics. as it stands right now, we have entirely unregulated nontransparent money. as would seem to be bad for everybody. whatever you feel about amending the constitution or some of the broader issues, why are we not seeing the two of you and the other 543 people in our government seize immediately to the floor of our legislature to write a piece of super pac transparency legislation, which is the lowest hanging fruit, and then we can argue our way up the chain on there. thoughts on the barrier to

having the super pac legislation asap? >> let me say this. we have offered a constitutional amendment to say what i think the vast majority of the american people agree with. a corporation is not a person. what we have right now, we are seeing it in florida and will continue to see it accelerate. people like sheldon adelson, billionaires taking money out of their own pocket and putting it into campaigns. we're moving in the direction where a small number of billionaires will directly control the political process in this country. i think the vast majority of the american people are opposed to that. short-term, above and beyond the constitutional amendment, we should pass the disclosure ad, saying i approve that ad. >> senator coburn? >> i think a couple points need

to be brought out. we're aware that sheldon adelson has given, i think, upwards of $10 million to newt gingrich. first of all, that's transparency and that's the amount. so i would not disagree there ought to be transparency in who contributes to the super pacs and it ought to be public knowledge. but i don't think that necessarily means that you limit peoples' ability to participate. and i don't know the answer to the question that bernie raises about whether or not corporations and entities other than individuals have first amendment rights. we have seen that tested in a number of ways in terms of advertising and advertising restrictions. we have a whole body of law that would say corporations do have first amendment rights. we have a supreme court case narrowly decide that's our guide right now. we ought to have transparency. there's nothing wrong with

transparency. i tried to get it all the time around here and can't get it. >> dylan, i would just say if i could in response. we agreed on transparency. the problem with the super pac and the way the law is written right now, you get transparency after the election and not before. i think transparency is when you do an ad or i do an ad, we have to put a picture and say we approve. corporations should have to do that as well. >> the wonderful thing is is i'm not doing anymore ads because i self-limited my terms, which is one of the best things we can do to restore confidence in washington. >> but in the broader sense, i'm sorry to interrupt, but we're sitting in a situation where we have transparency from adelson because they volunteered it. we don't have transparency behind mitt romney, except a lagging basis. there's no legislation that demands that we all get the benefit of what we got voluntarily from newt and sheldon. what's confusing for a lot of us

is while we have the broughter debate about the electoral process, term limits, gerrymandering, a lot to be discussed and deserve ss a deba. it will take some time. in the short-term, why we're not seeing our government today, how are you doing on getting legislation immediately with 48-hour disclosure as an indication of good faith from our congress that we're going to address some of the broader issues. is that unreasonable? >> no. but i would tell you there isn't one republican that controls the committee in the senate. we can't bring a bill to the floor. the second point i would make is i think the fact that mr. adelson has given this much money to newt gingrich is hurting him. that's worn out in the virginia experience. it hurts. >> i agree. >> because how much influence is adelson going to have on gingrich if he wins? >> and that's just the case for a passing transparency

legislation immediately. you get the last word on the barrier to doing that. >> i would hope senator coburn would join us in voting for the disclosure bill that will appear on the floor. but at least it would force the ceos of corporations to have their picture on the two telling us they approve those ads. >> i think the american people would love if the 545 of you, and you two are two that i esteem more, would help us in secret unregulated money. we'll take it from there. gentlemen, thank you so much for your time this afternoon. thanks. >> thank you. coming up from washington, the trump card was played today. the donald headed out to sin city to place his bet on a gop candidate. does that endorsement hurt or

help? but first, a critical conversation in our quest to create 30 million jobs. how do we keep them in america? we're one on one with the congressman with a new bill that he says aims to do that. we'll get into it. and then what is in apple's secret sauce? those workers with their suicide nets and 18-hour days, just a slice of how they do business. our specials reveal the tech titans less disgust business secrets. a jam-packed show from the belly of the beast, washington, d.c., as the 30 million jobs tour rolls on. we're delighted to have you along for the ride. nyquil (st uffy

): hey, tylenol. you know we're kinda like twins. tylenol: we are? nyquil (stuffy): yeah, we both relieve coughs, sneezing, aches, fevers. tylenol: and i relieve nasal congestion. nyquil (stuffy): overachiever. anncr vo: tylenol cold multi-symptom nighttime relieves nasal congestion... nyquil cold & flu doesn't. how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms. when they want. where they want. doing what they want. ameriprise. the strength of a leader in retirement planning. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you one-to-one. together for your future. ♪ the two trains and a bus rider. the "i'll sleep when it's done" academic.

for 80 years, we've been inspired by you. and we've been honored to walk with you to help you get where you want to be. ♪ because your moment is now. let nothing stand in your way. learn more at keller.edu. we have to thank you for the advice on phillips' caplets. magnesium, right? you bet! phillips' caplets use magnesium. works more naturally than stimulant laxatives... for gentle relief of occasional constipation. can i get an autograph? [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'.

welcome back. a little auction 2012 coverage for you. the donald in vegas entering the auction himself as a bet on the republican in the party. >> it's my honor, real honor and privilege to endorse mitt romney. [ applause ] >> so the casino billionaires have set their sights on one another. gingrich picks up sheldon adelson and romney picks up trump's huge ratings. time for the mega panel. karen, susan, and jimmy join us. i watch the trump endorsement and the romney response. i have to say superficially, romney's commentary on trade, romney's rhetoric on bank

restructure. we heard it in florida saying the banks are lying and fearful and need to restructure and write down their debt and get over it. those are the things i would love to hear from this president. yet we haven't. am i wrong to be encouraged by his opponent in mitt romney potentially escalating that rhetoric? >> i think you're wrong on this one. i think you have a guy running for president who will say just about anything to get elected. including, remember barack obama said i'm going to go after manipulation of chinese currency. have we done it? not so much. if there's anybody that's going to sit around and have a conversation about stability and consistency with their policy positions, it simply cannot be mr. romney. and also, donald trump just sat there on national tv and said unemployment is going to go above 9%. now there's one quarter in the report that was just put out january 2012, this past month,

that said one quarter unemployment could go up as high as 9.2%. what he is inferring is that unemployment is going to be 9%. sorry, but no one believes him. >> don't get lost in that. we know unemployment is actually 20%. that's a flawed debate. >> it goes to credibility. >> go ahead, karen. >> the only important thing to what they say is if the laws don't change. that brings us back to the idea that we clearly have problems sitting on the table that need to be addressed. here's the problem that i have with, you know, this endorsement. and i'm sorry to say, dylan, i agree with jimmy. it's very easy to have lots of nice platitudes when you're campaigning because you're not accountable. it's when you walk in the door and see the pile of you know what sitting on your desk and you have to deal with it. the issue that i have with romney is it's easy to stand there and criticize the housing

crisis, but he hasn't put forward one idea. but to stand with donald trump, the day after having such a stupid comment about poor people, really just shows a fundamental lack and tone deafness that i think is going to continue to hurt him in this campaign. it takes us away from being able to have the debate that we deserve. we started to talk about the social safety net. even if you take the full quote, he doesn't understand that the safety net isn't working. >> at the end of the day, does the endorsement help? it only helps one person and that is donald trump because he show premiers two weeks from now. i'm sure he's looking to keep his ratings up. so someone did benefit today and it was donald trump. >> the interesting thing going to the romney conversation on both bank reform and trade reform, susan, and all the criticisms that jimmy and karen just offered of romney, most of which are relatively well

plalsed in terms of the ease of saying these things and the pandering aspect, but isn't that exactly what president obama did four years ago? in other words, isn't it the problem with america is that we have these people running for president, whether it's barack obama saying he's going to deal with china or create jobs only to take the bank money and leave the trade agreements in place, only to do more deals so he can create a safe harbor for the banks, which nobody understands. and now romney is going to basically play the same game. how do we apply direct pressure to both parties to hold them more to account to deal with china, deal with bank restructuring, deal with tax reform so we can get the investment that we need and stop playing who do i like better, susan? >> going back to obama when he was campaigning in 2008. now the president walked in and he said, oh my gosh. i didn't know things were that bad. he did promise a bunch of things

he couldn't deliver. and because he said, i didn't know what was really going on. i think what you need to do is everyone needs to step back politically on both sides and say what can really be achieved. what do you want to do to be achieved in this environment. that's how you get to solutions. >> the only thing i would say it's what can we be achieved, it's that we are down 30 million jobs and have a health care system that's expensive and the question is not what can be achieved by these corrupt people. the question is can anybody achieve and who can achieve the most effective results to create the 30 million jobs. i'm going to come back to you in a second. the panel will return in a minute. we want to move to a bill we first told you about on this program yesterday that's meant to bring some transparency to the outsourcing of american jobs. it would require american businesses to disclose where they are hiring. gary peters introduced the bill and joins us now today.

critical to any problem-solving is knowing what's going on first. educate us a little bit to your piece of legislation and tell us how you think it will affect the flow of jobs into or out of this country. >> thank you, dylan. thank you for having me on the program. the legislation we introduced is just basic transparency. right now, corporations, when they are doing their filings with the sec have to report their jobs. our legislation says we need to know more information. we want to know where those jobs are. how many are in the united states and how many are overseas? this is important information. we're debating how we get more jobs in the country. we have congress saying they need tax breaks in order to hire more folks. we don't have the data as to whether or not those policies are actually working and hiring people in the united states as opposed to overseas. we have a job issue here in america. we need to know where the jobs are and how we can make an impact in creating those jobs.

>> why not address the issue of china as a currency manipulate tor or the fact they tax our imports at 25% and we tax theirs at 2.5%? i respect and admire the effort for transparency. i believe it's necessary, but the underlying structural problem is that there's a mathematically-rigged structure drawing money and ultimately jobs out of our country. >> you're right. there's no question. we have unfair trade policies. we need to have fair policies that treat american companies like we see companies overseas. american workers can outcompete anybody in the world, but you have to have a fair set of rules. certainly, that's how we deal with it. but you need to have transparency to know what companies are doing and are they keeping jobs or bringing jobs back from china to the united states. having transparency helps consumers making decisions in what companies they want to deal

with. they want american workers and not folks working overseas. investors would like to have that information. i don't mean this bill will cure the problem. it's only one element of how we deal with the problem. but trade policies are critical. we need to know how they impact firms at the firm level and we need the data to do that. >> i completely agree with that. we would all be delighted to have that information. transparency is the crusade of this decade if we're going to enhance our decision-making across the board. interesting to know how you would reconcile this. twlr foreign companies, nonamerican companies who provide 80 or 90% of their work using american workers. how do you reconcile the job counting not just as it pertains to u.s. multinationals and their employment distribution and their investment distribution, but also the benefits america is

receiving from people overseas investing in our country? >> and i think that should be recogni recognized. the most important thing is jobs in america. if we are attracting foreign investment and they are it hiring americans to work here in the united states, that's something we should encourage. that's something that should be celebrated. consumers should be aware of those companies making products here. if they are building in america and are particularly focused on middle-class jobs of manufacturing, we certainly want to encourage that. in no way does this bill interfere with the ability for foreign companies to do business in the united states. but to do it with american workers. >> while i've got you, congressman, what is your degree of confidence that the need for the sorts of reforms we talk about every day on this show and expanding other parts of the country are going to go forward?

>> we have to -- failure is not an option. i come from michigan. michigan has been very hard hit. we're starting to see a recovery now in the auto industry because of some very bold steps made by president obama. but we have to be focused on making sure that we have middle-class jobs in this country. that's really the challenge for us. that has to be the number one issue in the election here in 2012. you have a shrinking middle class. as the middle class shrinks, the economy will also shrink. you need to have people who can buy products and actually have the economic ability to really fuel an economy. as we continue to see wage levels fall, we'll have a weaker and weaker economy. in the process, your earlier comments, you'll have a weaker democracy because you need to have a vibrant middle class to keep the folks at the top in check. we won't have that without that middle-class focus. >> thank you for the time. the last bug i will put in your ear. we need super pac transparency

legislation as soon as possible. we can debate all the rest of the electoral stuff until the cows come home, but this is unbelievable. >> absolutely. you have to have full transparency and know who the groups are. you have no idea who is funding these names. when you dig into the weeds, those folks funding these probably have values very different than you and i. >> congressman, there's 545 of you. i talked to senator coburn and sande sanders. now i'm down to 542 of you that could help with that. so thank you, congressman. >> thank you. >> outsourcing of u.s. jobs a major focus of today's installment of our auction 2012 special report done in collaboration with "the huffington post." head on over and check it out at the top of their political page. full coverage of the trade rigging. we have full coverage at

dylanratigan.com. connect the dots. it's in every chapter of the book, but it's available online at greedybastards.com. you can see how our interests are being breached. next up on our 30 million jobs tour, inside one of america's most successful and most secretive companies. do they really employ slaves in china making iphones? our specialist reveals the good, the bad, and the ugly at apple. [ male announcer ] this was how my day began. a little bird told me about a band... ♪ an old man shared some fish stories... ♪ oooh, my turn. ♪ she was in paris, but we talked for hours... everyone else buzzed about the band. there's a wireless mind inside all of us. so, where to next?

♪ i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life.

get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday. ♪ it's nice to be here ♪ it's nice to see you in my bed ♪ ♪ ♪ there are diamonds... [ male announcer ] this is your moment. ♪ ♪ and they sparkle in the night ♪ [ male announcer ] this is zales, the diamond store. take an extra 10 percent off storewide now through sunday.

welcome back to the 30 million jobs tour. one american company where business is certainly booming is apple. in fact, the company recently announced that it doubled profits in the the most recent quarter from the year before thanks largely to the american people and the consumption of the iphones.

37 million of them sold in the period. according to our specialist, there's vastly more to what apple calls their secret sauce for success than simply selling a really cool hand held device. adam lasinski wrote the new book already a best seller "inside apple." my big focus with am has been, as you know, on fox con and the employment of thousands of chinese workers to physically manufacture not just iphones, but mac products. it's not just apple. other people use the plant. 230,000 employees. 12-hour days. living in barics. huge suicide issue there. they solved the suicide issue with nets as opposed to reforms,

which i thought was a curious resolution. give me a sense of whether the fox con entity for apple is as das dardly as it appears, and more broadly, how apple does do their business. >> i can't persuade you from thinking it's dastardly. all the other manufacturers have set up fox con and others as intermediaries so they are not their factories. thp this has given them plausible deniability. that era is completely behind them now. i think it will be interesting to see how apple deals with that. this is something, as i say in my book, apple doesn't care what other people say about them. they are very focused on what they do and about how to market their products. but i do believe they care deeply about this issue. we haven't heard the last of it from them. they are not used to being by the leader. just 15 years ago, they were the

underdog. they played the underdog very well. i think this position of being the one everybody is watching, believe it or not, is new to them. they are being a bit awkward about it now. >> karen? >> here's my question as to what you were just saying. one of the things an organization needs to be able to do effectively is adapt to unforseen consequences. the president has done a good job of dealing with that and kept promises. how does apple as a company in the way they approach their business, how do they adapt and make changes? >> you know, what's fascinating is this is one of the first major tests of the new ceo, tim cook. if steve jobs would have been alive, he would have broken the rigid rules around making public statements and he would have made a grand gesture. he would have flown to china and

held a press conference. he would have done something to address this instead "the new york times" a no comment and leaking a memo to employees that didn't say anything. apple is good at breaking their own rules when it feels like it. we'll see. i won't be surprise d if they d. >> jimmy? >> so adam, do you own any apple products? >> i own many apple products, yes. >> so do i, jimmy. are you trying to make us feel terrible? >> no. i own three. i'm just wondering. >> it's terrible. we're all slave employers. >> i just want to make sure we're honest about what we own. >> all righty then. >> now to the gentle lady from new york. >> in doing your research, i'm curious, what surprised you the most? what did you learn that shocked you in doing your research about

apple? >> what surprised me the most is that this company does everything exactly the opposite the way most businesses -- including the way it's taught in business school. so for example, businesses today teach transparency. we should be open. apple is opaque and secretive. businesses value this notion of general management. general managers should be jacks of all trades and be able to do all sorts of different jobs. at apple, they laugh at the idea of general management. they value expertise. they would say it's ridiculous to take somebody that's good at what they do and try to get them to see other parts of the world and other parts of the company. they would say nonsense. keep this person doing exactly what they do. and one thing. apple is good internally on the subject of accountability and responsibility. they have something called the dri, the directly responsible individual. it's shockingly common sense, but most companies don't this

us. others say he's responsible or she's responsible. apple you say, who is the dri? that's the person you're going to blame if it doesn't get done. >> in this case, it would be our president. >> yes. jobs would say periodically if we don't do well, wall street is going to blame me. if you don't do well, he would say i'm going to blame you. >> listen, adam. congratulations, first off, on the book. your success is well deserved. this is an incredible learning opportunity for everybody both on innovate i have culture and some dysfunction. also want to thank you for your support of greedy bastards along the way. you have been great. i'm excited to see your success. so thank you, adam. >> and congratulations on yours. it's good to be with another new york times best seller. >> we can all feel guilty about our apple products.

thank you to the panel. adam, we'll talk to you soon. straight ahead, the business of the big game. how much sports fans they shell out for a ticket to the super bowl. how much would you pay? wt to p. right. but... home security systems can be really expensive. so to save money, we actually just adopted a rescue panther.

i think i'm goin-... shhh! we find that we don't need to sleep that much. there's an easier way to save. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. this is mary... who has a million things to pick up each month on top of her prescriptions. so she was thrilled that her walgreens pharmacist recommended a 3-month supply and would always be there to answer questions about her health. now mary gets 3 refills in one and for 3 months, she's done. more or less. ask your pharmacist about a 90 day supply today. walgreens. there's a way to stay well. we have to thank you for the advice on phillips' caplets. magnesium, right? you bet! phillips' caplets use magnesium. works more naturally than stimulant laxatives...

for gentle relief of occasional constipation. can i get an autograph? [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. in what passes for common sense. used to be we socked money away and expected it to grow. then the world changed... and the common sense of retirement planning became anything but common. fortunately, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. take control by opening a new account or rolling over an old 401(k) today, and we'll throw in up to $600. how's that for common sense?

we're on a 30 million jobs tour. think about how many fans are tuning into sunday's super bowl rematch? giants and pats. 100 million viewers expected. they are spending millions of bucks to be involved. the big game is giant business. hotel rooms in indianapolis marked up more than 1700%. so that cheap one-star hotel by the airport you don't want to stay in, it now runs $400. that's a deal compared to $600 parking spots at the stadium.

the cheapest nosebleed tickets on the ticket exchange are nearing $2,400. too bad a sports survey shows the spending limit is at $400. just a slight divide between the marketplace and those selling tickets. advertisers have shelling out $3.5 million for one 30-second spot. $87 million was bet on last year's game. that was just the legal disclosed gambling. there's also the office pools and the black market, which is almost all of the betting happens. those figures come in around $10 billion with a "b" dollars. one thing is going it into the weekend. no matter what team will win, a bunch of people will be cashing in big along the way. coming up, other big news in washington, d.c., today. talk of exiting afghanistan.

ten years into america's longest war, a war we funded boetd sides of. we'll talk to the author who says the west missed its chance to take down the taliban. you wouldn't want your doctor doing your job. so why are you doing hers? only your doctor can determine if your persistent heartburn is actually something more serious... like acid reflux disease. over time, stomach acid can damage the lining of your esophagus. for many, prescription nexium not only provides 24-hour heartburn relief, but can also help heal acid related erosions in the lining of your esophagus. talk to your doctor about the risk for osteoporosis-related bone fractures and low magnesium levels with long-term use of nexium. possible side effects include headache, diarrhea and abdominal pain.

other serious stomach conditions may still exist. let your doctor do her job, and you do yours. ask if nexium is right for you. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. an accident doesn't have to slow you down... with better car replacement, available only from liberty mutual insurance, if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy a car that's one model-year newer... with 15,000 fewer miles on it. there's no other auto insurance product like it. better car replacement, available only from liberty mutual. it's a better policy that gets you a better car. call... or visit one of our local offices today,

and we'll provide the coverage you need at the right price. liberty mutual auto insurance, responsibility -- what's your policy? ♪ you and me and the big old tree ♪ ♪ side by side, one, two, three ♪ ♪ count the birds in the big old tree ♪ ♪ la la la [ male announcer ] the inspiring story of how a shipping giant can befriend a forest may seem like the stuff of fairy tales. ♪ ♪ you and me and the big old tree side by side ♪ but if you take away the faces on the trees... take away the pixie dust. take away the singing animals, and the charming outfits. take away the sprites, and the storybook narrator... [ man ] you're left with more electric trucks. more recycled shipping materials... and a growing number of lower emissions planes...

which still makes for a pretty enchanted tale. ♪ la la la whoops, forgot one... [ male announcer ] sustainable solutions. fedex. solutions that matter. the other big news and it is big news in washington today. concern cans america's longest war in afghanistan, a war where we have been fighting and funding the enemy at the same time by virtue of a whole litany

of systems, defense secretary leon panetta saying the u.s. will seek to end their combat mission by the end of 2013. the white house dialing pack on panetta's commentary saying no official decision has been made. we have 89,000 boots on the ground. that number is expected to drop to 23,000 by the end of the year. our next guest has worked in kabul since the beginning of the war and is out with a new book claiming that we, the american po policymakers, deliberately have missed opportunities to take down the taliban and stabilize a massively-volatile region. lucy morgan is an advisor. she's the author of "the afghan solution." take us to the kruks of this,

lucy. >> he was a well-known commander during the 1980s. and he was brill yant in a warfare against the communists in kabul. he conducted some of the operations that really contributed to taking down that regime. and he did this, he was very clever. this wasn't about attacking civilians. this was really about penetrating the civil service and the army. one of the operations was blowing the 7th story underground dump in 1987. that was an event that turned that war. now in the runup to 9/11 and two years prior, he realized that the taliban were very unpopular. he started working with a group of some of his former commanders. some of whom were embedded in the taliban. and tribal leaders. the ex-king was to be the symbolic glue to hold them together. they met in rome and istanbul.

and they were really ready early january 2001. they were ready to have an internal rebellion. the problem was that washington didn't want to support this. and so finally by july, he made a deal with the north. they agreed to work together. but then 9/11 happened, and the crucial thing was that he insisted that the west should not bomb afghanistan. they bombed afghanistan, some of them were moderate people that he was targeting. they would possibly retreat and have other people coming into the country from pakistan and the extremist al qaeda elements and it would be difficult for him to maintain contact to stop this rebellion. it was crucial. he was arguing that the west not bomb afghanistan. >> do you suggest though, lucy, that the decision to ignore that

advice and do engage in a massive aerial bombing campaign over the course of a decade run by guys with joy sticks in las vegas playing a video game of murder over the skies of afghanistan that that decision was made and is being made deliberately? in other words, are you suggesting that the dysfunction you just described was a strategic decision e made on a policy level that says we want to appear to be fighting a war in afghanistan through the theater of reigning hell fire from the sky because it's good for us politically in america, but we actually do not want to engage tactically to resolve the power dysfunction in afghanistan to enhance stability? is that a correct interpretation? >> absolutely. because the thing was he recognized that there was a window of opportunity. if the west started bombing, that the northern ae license would breakthrough taliban front lines and take kabul and they

would have the reigns of power, as it were, that you had had the war lords coming back. guys who were unpopular with the pop lists because of what they had done in the early '90s. but once they were installed in kabul, it would be difficult to have a balanced ethnic representation. some groups would be left out, which is why many of them are gravitating back towards the taliban. but this is part of the problem. they have been completely alienated from the center. >> and very briefly, does it matter at this point when the united states leaves afghanistan relative to the chaos and instability that is there and will persist? >> obviously, there are questions of how many bases the u.s. wishes to maintain. whether they'll have a complete

pullout. but after ten years, we have not managed to build up any structures. even the national security forces that nato and the u.s. is trumting as their root to exit has massive problems. the ethnic representation, huge problems with that. and it looks as though we'll be having civil war on several different levels. >> thank you for the reporting. ruthless though it may be, better to know than to pretend it doesn't exist. thank you so much. still ahead here, making order out of chaos. remember, how is not the question. how is the answer. our resident therapist with tips on getting organized and creating calm, enhancing your own how amid-our crazy schedules between our 30 million jobs tour and the greedy bastards launch. his therapy not a moment too soon. the show continues after this. the employee of the month isss... the new spark card from capital one. spark miles gives me the most rewards

of any small business credit card. the spark card earns double miles... so we really had to up our game. with spark, the boss earns double miles on every purchase, every day. that's setting the bar pretty high. owning my own business has never been more rewarding. coming through! [ male announcer ] introducing spark the small business credit cards from capital one. get more by choosing unlimited double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase, every day. what's in your wallet? and it's surprising what it goes through in the course of a day. but what's even more surprising is that brushing alone isn't enough to keep it clean. fortunately, you've got listerine. unlike brushing which misses 75% of your mouth, listerine cleans virtually your entire mouth. so what are you waiting for? it's time to take your mouth to a whole new level of health. listerine... power to your mouth.

[ horn honks ] ♪ oh, those were the best of days ♪ ♪ i still feel the summer rays ♪ that graced our backs as we went down the lane ♪ [ horn honks ] [ male announcer ] when your car is more than just a car to you, the right insurance matters. are you getting the coverage options you need and the discounts you deserve? for an agent or quote, call 800-my-coverage or visit travelers.com. i have a cold. and i took nyquil, but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] sorry buddy. truth is, nyquil doesn't un-stuff your nose. what? it doesn't have a decongestant. really? [ male announcer ] you need a more complete cold and flu formula, like alka-seltzer plus liquid gels. it's specially formulated to fight your worst cold and flu symptoms, plus relieve your stuffy nose. [ deep breath ] thank you! [ male announcer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth! [ male announcer ] and to fight your allergy symptoms fast, try new alka-seltzer plus allergy.

a 30 million jobs tour can get a bit grueling at times. we're only three weeks in. so noah cass is back in new york with tips. the authority with which you're about to speak, i want to show them that you have taken full and complete possession of the studio at msnbc in the belly of the beast that is 30 rockefeller center. if you tend to speak with a grander sense of authority, people will know why.

>> i need a little ego deflat n deflation. >> this is going to be a problem for everybody associated with you, i'm sure. but while you're here, the least you could do is help us. we ourselves are in a chaotic period of time in the show. and in this country. there's a lot of disruption and a lot of peoples' lives for sometimes positive or negative reasons. how do you recommend we navigate this? >> i think, actually, your show in particular is quite good at having a very organized and calm mind. i think you guys do great at having a narrative that goes straight through. part of what we suffer from in our political process and the covering of the political process and the way we navigate our systems is we're completely disorganized. i think there's a link between how we organize ourselves and our bodies and our minds and our

productivity. >> and what would you say are the primary reasons behind the incredible disorganization, for instance, of how our current political apparatus functions? >> i think we wrestle in ma knew sha rather than focusing on the inequities that you talk about. it's easy because it doesn't require any depth. it requires sound bytes. you tried to do something different commended for that. but clients are trying to create organization within their lives and they often suffer from not being able to manage their time effectively. not being able to manage their belongings and possessions effectively. as a result, considering the job market and the insecurities that are around them, this becomes quite a problem. >> so walk us through some of the obvious benefits of this. then i want to talk to you about how how is really the thing. it's the way you do things that

matters the most. >> i think the benefits of being an organized person is that you save time. you're not spending your whole time preparing for a project. you're just doing the project. i'll use an example for myself as a student when i was in high school. i would spend three hours getting all my research for a paper together. it would be 11:30 at night and i hadn't started the paper. had i had the research initially, i could have been productive. but i wasn't. the same thing for a parent who has a kid. it's choosing portions of our area in our home that we designate for work versus play and understanding that our belongings matter. how we carry ourselves matter. and that, yeah. >> your two big things are get rid of your old junk.

how do you define old junk? >> in the age of ink box and sent messages, this technology helps us but it also keeps us quite cluttered. some of us have to go through each week deleting old e-mails. deleting items that are no longer needed for us. and starting each day fresh. especially those searching for a job. it's so important that they have a work space so they can focus on. that work space includes inspirational things that will help them feel good about their job search and not things that will remind them about how much money they owe or stressors in their family. i think taking care of your space and creating ownership over it is quite important. >> and i'll leave it there, noah. i certainly know for us to execute the 30 million jobs tour, if we didn't have an incredible organizational effort that obviously went through all of last fall, not to mention the writing of the book,