his affairs and yet another his religious believes. he was a flawed hero. but looking coldly at history and what he did, a hero nonetheless. that is "hardball" thank you for being with us. "the ed show" with ed schultz >> good evening americans, welcome to "the ed show" from new york. the republican race, rick santorum rolled over mitt romney he might have a good path to the republican nomination. liberals, we got to root for santorum i'll tell you why, this is the "the ed show," let's get to work. the gift of being under estimated is a wonderful gift. and i think we might have seen that last night. >> the santorum sweep has democrats dancing and romney scrambling. >> rick santorum voted to raise the debt ceil, i believe five different times. >> tonight, santorum surge and how it affects the race with

steve schmid and richard wolffe. ari melber and robert reich are on opposite sides of the decision to use super pacs. they are here to debate it. >> if they have a problem with spokespeople what about the pillsbury doughboy, has no pants on. >> ellen is putting right wing bigotry in their place. republicans waging another secret war on workers. senator bernie sanders is standing up and doing something about it. and koch brother money is pouring in wisconsin. >> wisconsin put an end to abuses of collective bargaining, putting taxpayers back in control. >> one of the wisconsin 14 is here with a major announcement. good to have you with us tonight, folks, thanks for watching. last night's election results told us two things about the republicans, mitt romney has serious issues and trouble in the middle of the country and rick santorum is taking advantage of it.

here is the score board, romney has won three states, newt gingrich has won south carolina and rick santorum has the lead, won four states all in the middle of the country, which is interesting. i'll explain. rick santorum is covering big territory, mitt romney is performing worse in those states than he did in 2008. how is he moving forward? he did four points worse in missouri and didn't win a single county. for instance in minnesota he came in third and lost 24 points than he did last time. in colorado, he lost 25 points from 2008. if you want to look at one county as an example of mitt romney's problems in middle class america, middle of the country, norman county, minnesota, a county of 7000 people in the red river valley. median income is $32,000. more than 10% of the population lives in poverty. mitt romney got zero percent of the vote in norman county.

romney spent very little time or money in any of these states. before last night. when mitt romney doesn't carpet bomb the air waves with attacks on his opponents, he loses. today, romney he became -- started his new assault on rick santorum. >> rick santorum was a major ear marker, continues to defaend ear marks. under rick santorum, he raised -- voted to raise the debt ceiling, i believe five different times to a tune of about an additional $3.5 trillion. >> the electability issue is going away for mitt romney. he needs to attack rick santorum because he is a credible conservative. until now, santorum hasn't had the big money to support him but that might be changing. last night, he was shadowed by millionaire conservatives forest freeze, bank rolling the super pac. santorum will appear at annual gathering for conservatives. has been a hit in the past.

this is a chance for him to bring in more big money donors. santorum is also stepping up in one very important area. he's getting much more aggressive against president obama. >> there is probably another person who may be is listening to your cheers here tonight, also. and that might be at 1600 pennsylvania avenue, you better start listening to the voice of the people. but then again i wouldn't be surprised if he isn't listening. why would you think he would be listening now? has he ever listened to the voice of america before? no, why? because i think because he thinks he knows better, he's smarter than you. he thinks he's someone who is a privileged person who should be able to rule over all of you. >> man, that is raw meat, i don't know why the conservatives don't jump all over rick santorum he's your guy, isn't he? he's the whole package. there are four categories of

conservatives, social conservatives, national defense conservatives, that what is they are concerned about, also the economic conservatives and tea party. most conservatives are a combination of these. but rick santorum seems to be able to deliver in all four of these categories, think the country is getting it. getting conservatives to vote for him that barack obama won in 2008. this is mitt romney's problem he can't connect with the voters across the board. i think santorum put himself on the ticket last night. he is a more than relevant player. he might have secured his spot on the ticket. how can you deny him he's winning in the middle of the country where president obama won in 2008. but the person you should be really should be celebrating, i think the most is president obama. you see the conservative supporting rick santorum pretty much are out of touch if you look at the polls throughout the country.

the big social conservatives, their issue is of course the administration, birth control right now. they are uptight about that. the public sides with president obama on that. the national defense conservatives, what do they want? go face-to-face with iran at any cost. you listen to santorum on the stump that is all he can talk about going after the iranians. i think americans have had enough of that. americans are against another war of choice. economic conservatives, what do they say? you can't raise taxes on the job creators. the public says you can and you should to the tune of some 70%. then of course there is the tea party movement, they want to cut government spending across the board. guess what? president obama says he can trim the deficit by cutting spending and raising taxes on the wealthiest americans and the public agrees. if mitt romney loses to rick santorum, the happiest person in the race has to be president obama. it will be too idealogs and one

can find the center better than another it would seem to me president obama would be headed back to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. get your cell phones out. want to know what you think. tonight's question, who is the big winner last night? rick santorum or president obama? text a for rick santorum, text b for president obama, 622639. guy to our blog at ed.msnbc.com, we'll bring you results later in the show. i'm joined by msnbc contributor and republican strategist steve schmitt, who served as a senior advisor to senator john mccain's presidential campaign and msnbc political analyst richard wolf fchbe, great to have you with us. >> thanks, ed. >> does rick santorum have a realistic path to the nomination right now? how big was last night? >> i think a huge night for him, and it starts to collapse the in evidence itability story line around mitt romney.

if you look at the contest right now there has been eight, rick santorum won four, mitt romney won three. rick santorum needs newt gingrich to get out of the race or the voters to collapse his support and come over to him decisively. if there are two candidates splitting the conservative vote, looking ahead at the remaining contest and going on to super tuesday, i think it means that it's big trouble for those candidates. >> what do you make of santorum winning where president obama won? minnesota, iowa, missouri, colorado? i went to the newt gingrich event the other night and they weren't sold on newt in bloomington, minnesota but you could sense they were looking for something. they were trying -- they were waivering, where do we go, we have to find someone to beat obama and what is happening it seems to me, santorum is igniting the conservative base. it's a little late, where president obama won is where he seems to be strong. >> i think that rick santorum had a compelling message to blue

collar republican voters. you have seen him hit it out of the park on message on primary nights. i think one of the things under estimated on the republican side is the impact of governor romney's comments when you talk about that he's not focused on the poor. i think that impacts with evangelical voters who in fact are focused on the poor and it also impacted with conservatives who don't believe in the social safety net in the way that governor romney described it. so i think all of this after a number of missteps, the campaign is a long way from being over, it will get exciting. >> game changer last night, i think. this is wide open now. let's go to richard wolffe, how does romney recover from this? what would you advise him to do? how does he turn it around and get the mojo back? >> we all see february will be a good month for them.

first of all he's got to stob february from being a bloodbath. you have to look at two states in particular coming up, maine and michigan where the polls have him in the lead but they are not that comfortable a lead when you consider what happened in colorado. so he's really got to win and win impressively at least in michigan. otherwise he will find the media turning on this story ofinevitability. super tuesday may not be that super, super tuesday will get a lot of attention, if you will be the momentum candidate you have to deliver and so that is the first thing, start winning again, but secondly, if you think you're going to be the general election candidate and you have to take down rick santorum, the temptation is going to be to go to the right of him or at least equal him on some of the social conservative issues, that is very difficult with rick santorum, you cannot do what you did to newt gingrich, going after freddie mac there, you've got to find another chan toll say santorum

is not going to win without having to try and destroy him on credibility or conservativism because i don't think it works in the same ways as gingrich. >> today, mitt romney likened his campaign to senator mccain. >> senator mccain after i think winning florida he went on to lose 17 or 18 contests after that. but was able to put the delegates together by focusing on the process of gathering delegates as we will. >> steve, is this the right comparison? >> i don't think it is the right comparison. the day john mccain became the defacto nominee of the party, there were 35 people that worked in the headquarters, campaign was $2 million in the red, the campaign stipulated that it wasn't going to compete in the caucus states because we didn't a, have money, and b, have organization to be able to do it. we needed to compete in the primary state where we could take advantage of the momentum. governor romney doesn't have that excuse. he has the money, he has the organization.

the problem that he's run into is a message problem. is that republican voters are rejecting his candidacy in these states for a reason that is different than money and different than organization. he won't win every state, but when you look at the problems that are spelled out with the results last night, he does have some real structural problems in the race. now, i still believe that he is likely to be the republican nominee at the end of the process for a lot of different reasons, but if he loses michigan, for example, you would see a narrative that start to take hold that shows the campaign in the state of collapse. that would be very bad for him. >> almost 6 in 10 democrats now say they are very excited about voting in november. that is up from 48% six months ago. republican enthusiasm hasn't changed. richard, how is the obama campaign reacting to all this, they have to be high-fiving one another behind closed doors. >> most important, that and the turn around in independent voters are the two biggest

numbers to come out of this whole year or more of campaigning since the mid-terms. that enthusiasm advantage changed the shape of the electoral elect electorate in 2010. he has to shift the electorate to something approaching 2008, enthusiasm, translates in turnout, that is extremely important, so yes, that is a very important measure moving forward and by the way, poor michael steele, part of the msnbc family, his idea as head of the rnc this build enthusiasm and turn the primary process, that is not bearing out in the numbers. >> i think rick santorum has worked himself in a position where he has to be reckoned with with the party. you can't have a guy draw that many conservatives out even though the enthusiasm isn't as great. if he can draw out conservatives where president obama won he will have to be on the ticket it would seem to me.

steve, what do you think about that? >> i don't know that he necessarily if he comes in second place has a claim to the vice presidency. in the republican party coming in second place at the end of this process, usually is an indicator you're going to be the next nominee of the party, right? so any republican who goes through this process and winds up in second place, it's different than the democratic party, the signal in the democratic party you're washed up. >> steve schmitt, richard wolf fche, great to have you with us tonight. remember, answer the question there at the bottom of the screen, and share your thoughts on twitter at #edshow. super pack slug fest when the gop nominee faces barack obama. ari melber and robert reich. republicans are waging war on workers, one of the men standing in their way, bernie sanders, he's coming up, joins me to talk

about his plan to save the post office, lots more coming up, stay with us we're right back.

coming up the obama campaign's decision to promote donating to super pacs has the left divided in this country. i'll talk to ari melber who support the decision and robert reich the former labor secretary who has serious reservations. ellen degeneres responds to the conservative group that threatened to boycott jc penny for hiring her as a spokesperson. and thanks the company for standing with her. scott walker raises money in the sunshine state. while the koch brothers do his dirty work buying up wisconsin ads touting his record, kathleen vynout is taking on the governor and is here to explain it all. share your thoughts on twitter with us tonight, we will be right back. [ male announcer ] what if an entire car insurance company was thought up and built and run to save people money?

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with all due deference to separation of powers, last week the supreme court reversed a century of law that i believe will open the floodgates for special interests, including foreign corporations. to spend without limit in our elections. >> well, guess what? i guess we could say that's vintage tape of supreme court justice samuel alito reacting when president obama dared to challenge the wisdom of the citizens united decision. president obama is obviously on record for standing up against super pacs. but president obama is also a realist, his campaign saw what happened when mitt romney's super pac carpet bombed newt

gingrich it was a turn around. the president of the united states and his aides decide they had needed to help democratic super pac priorities usa cofounder bill burton said this is a new kind offest for democrats but confident we have the resources we need to be counterveiling force to the right wing. democratic donors have been reacting. a veteran hollywood fund-raiser says what it means is one person can effect the nominating process i find it appalling but he said he understood the decision. let's turn to robert reich, pre professor at uc berkeley. ari melber, i think this is a slam dunk decision, i think the president had to do this, you have to stay in the money game when you like it or not. mr. reich you're on record saying you don't like it that it's a big mistake. why?

>> ed, i understand it, and political realists will say it was necessary. i don't think it was necessary. i think it's a sad commentary. if the administration and obama had said look, this campaign really is going to be as he did start to say in december, you remember that speech out in kansas, this campaign is going to be what i believe and that is that wealth and income and political power in this country have become too concentrated at the top and i'm going to make this campaign about the people versus the power and the privilege. if he really felt that, if he believed it, co he could take a stand against citizens united. what he has said to the world, potentially small donors, look i'll play the game the way the republicans are, will become depend ent on a few huge donors on wall street and in corporate boardrooms and you know, ed, again i understand it i think he

could have done better with a very strong stand he would have had many many more small contributors, would have had a mandate in the second term to take all this on and i think -- the decision is done i can't do anything about it but i think it's sad. >> i think most liberals in the country view it as a principle stand, but the reality is that you can't win unless you have a bunch of money to counter $500 billion of negative ads. >> that is the issue. >> ari, did the president do the right thing? >> i think he did what he has to do. we're talking about playing by the rules. he's playing by the rules, some of the rules are bad, they should change. he's dealing with republican congress that as you know has fought to filibuster the disclose act and fought to fight against the insider trading bill which i consider small reforms. the thing i disagree with the professor on, this isn't how change has to work. when you say you support higher

taxes doesness mean you pay out higher taxes in individual, you try to change the laws and in the meantime, we don't have two sets of systems between the reformers and people who don't like the reformers. >> mr. reich, what about that? >> i think that the president, if he had really stuck to the principle that he believes in, i hope he believes in, maybe he don't. some people said the president is -- was really never much of a reformer, not a populist, this is predictable, if he does believe that the forces of wealth and income and concentrated power in this country are threatening democracy as he did say before, i think that a principle stand could have attracted millions of small donations i think by doing what he's doing now he's actually discouraging, demoralizing some of the base, he won't get as many small donations. he might have had more small donations in total in terms of the amount of money than he gets --.

>> that is the principle argument if he could raise more money in a different way, how that is more principle? >> oh, i think enormously more principle. small donations from average americans, that is how, that is not -- inconsistent with democracy. what is inconsistent is gigantic donations from a handful of wealthy people and corporations, that is what we want to fight against. >> i see both sides. i think it's a leap of faith to think small donoors will be able to match the super pac money on the right. the other thing if the republicans win the white house, there is no chance of reform. if president obama wins the white house, at least we could go back do him and say look, you didn't like this you said you didn't like it you were under a position to do something about it. what about that? >> ed, you're right. i think what the president needs to do now is say look, if i am reelected i am going to fight like mad for campaign finance

reform, for public financing of elections, for full disclosure and that disclose act i will have an executive order that every major federal contractor is going to disclose all contributions that that contractor makes, ban major big contractor, military contractors that get more than their money from the federal government from making political contributions. the president needs to be out there in the second term on all this issue of money and politics, big money and politics, get rid of it. >> he has to get elected. this is this a flat out admission the president can't win playing on a different field as the republicans? >> he might be able to win but it's an admission this is a huge problem, everyone knows it's a problem the way you deal with problems is you fight them head-on. he has to fight to get reelected i don't think -- i support the fairly elections bill by senator durbin and other efforts to curb it, it has to be done uniformly. the idea liberals should use reform towed it themselves --.

>> this is not unilateral disarmament. the president has an opportunity if he's reelected, to really say to the public i am going to fight for and committed to genuine finance reform, i'll appoint justices that are committed to repealing citizens united, reversing it, and i'll seek constitutional amendment in overturn citizens united. >> we want the same thing how we get there is a little different direction. good that liberals can have a discussion like this over on the right is get in the line and do it. robert reich, ari melber thanks so much. the right wing haters at one million moms still attacking ellen. today she responds, we have d the tape you won't want to miss. i've got a bone to pick with sean hanity, he made ludicrous claims about the obama administration the death of osama bin laden. i'll share the details coming

up.

normally i try not to pay attention to my haters, this time i'd like to talk about it because my haters are my motivators. >> ellen degeneres addressing the controversy brought on by one million moms. as we reported last week, one million moms took issue with ellen's new role as spokesperson for jcpenney.

>> this organization doesn't think i should be the spokesperson because i'm gay. so for those of you who are tuning in for the first time it's true i'm gay, i hope you were sitting down. i hate to break it to you this way. >> jcpenney stuck by their decision and by ellen, end of story, right? wrong. one million mom's followed up with a statement. by jumping on the pro-gay band wagon jcpenney is attempting to gain a new target market and in the process will loads customers with traditional values that have been faithful to them over all these years. here's ellen's response. >> first of all, being gay or pro-gay is not a bandwagon. you don't get a free ride anywhere. there is no music and occasionally we will see "we are family" but that is about it. secondly, they said majority of the jcpenney shoppers will be offend and not shop there anymore. i would like to read a few comments from the million mom's facebook page on their page.

not there is anyone counting but for a group that calls themselves million mom's, they have 40,000 members on their page. they are rounding to the nearest million and i get that. here is another one, way to go for not giving in to bullies, stand your ground. [ applause ] >> i'm a christian part of the tradition nam family and support ellen and now jcpenney. >> as for the traditional value, the intolerant few at one million mom's claim to uphold ellen had something to say about that too. >> i want to thank everyone supporting me and if you don't know me very well, if you're just watching for the first time or getting to know me i want to be clear. here are the values i stand for. i stand for honesty, equality, kindness, compassion, treating people the way you want to be treat and helping those in need.

to me those are traditional values, that is what i stand for. >> bravo ellen, well said. the president will say we got bin laden, putting that aside. >> the public gives him credit for it. >> it wouldn't have had if he had his way. >> sean hanity has gone off the deep end. i will deconstruct his deranged version of history with the facts. republicans in congress are trying to squash an american institution, bernie sanders to the rescue. koch brothers money is flooding the air waves in wisconsin to try to help save scott walker. one of the wisconsin 14 isn't having it. stay senator kathleen vynout is here with a major announcement. not financially. so we switched to the bargain detergent and i found myself using three times more than they say to and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide.

so we're back to tide. they're cuter in clean clothes. that's my tide. what's yours?

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it just continues. as we reported, once before, one of the latest targets is of all things, the post office. an american institution. the post office is in a little bit of trouble but they can get out of it. republicans say it declined traditional mail has been a big reason why the post office is losing money. but it's more than that. during a 2006 lame duck session of congress, republicans passed a law requiring the postal service to pre-fund, that means ahead of schedule, health care benefits for future retirees, 75 years worth of pensions over a 10 year span. now what kind of business would sign up for a plan like that? if you run a small business, can you ask yourself the honest question tonight, would you do that? probably not. republicans have won goal in mind when it comes to the post office, privatization. the post office costs taxpayers nothing, zip. zero, nada, nothing. it doesn't add to the deficit,

but because it's considering a -- it's basically considered a quasi-government agency the gop wants to take the ax to it. don't want any obligation. bernie sanders has come up with a plan to not only save the american institution but creative ideas. he thought of a few creative solutions to expand the postal services existing services like this. under senator sanders plan, you can get a few cool ones delivered right to your doorstep. right now you have to go through the private sector to do that. but, why can't the post office do this? sounds good to me. joining me now is senator sanders of vermont. good to have you with us i'm sorry i didn't pick the vermont beer up there but at least i have the good union stuff here, miller lite. is the beer delivery and some other things a way that could really turn around the postal service? what are you proposing? >> ed, absolutely. the post office today is

extraordinarily restricted in the kind of services and products that it can provide. if you go in a post office and you say to the clerk, can you notarize this letter for me, post office clerk says it's against the law, can't do it. can i get ten copies of my letter? sorry, can't do that. a fishing license? hunting license? can't do that. if i want to christmas time, can you wrap my package with christmas wrapping, can't do that. all over europe with post offices are doing is significantly diversifying, they are getting involved in e-telecommunications and making revenue. we've got to do a couple things. short term as you indicated, we have to relieve the post office of this horrendously ownerous responsibility of coming up with $5.r5 $5.5 billion every year. no other institution, private corporation, has to do that. second of all, the postal service, everybody agrees, has overpaid about $13 billion in

various retirement programs. that will give us short term breathing space in order to get a new business model out there which allows the post office to get involved in a much more entrepreneurial effort and raise the revenue it needs to be self-sufficient. >> all the things brought up about e-mail and the way society changes, goods and services, i understand all that. had the republicans not have done this pre-funding of 75 years in a 10 year window they wouldn't have near the financial problems they have right now, correct? >> absolutely. here's the point, ed. that fund now has $44 billion. what the inspector general of the post office has told us the other day, if the post office does not put another nickel in the fund, it accumulates 4% interest in 21 years that fund is fully funded, stronger than any similar fund in the united states of america. so we should use that 5.5 billion in order to stablize the post office today. >> how are you going to get the private sector to help rural

america. in the long run this is a real thorn in the side of american business, i think. >> you're absolutely right, ed. this is what we're talking about. 230,000 jobs being lost in the postal service in the middle of recession. postal service is responsible for millions of other jobs, in the private sector, businesses who use the mail, have to use the mail, packages every day. we're talking about losing 3700 post offices, many of them rural. we're talking about if these guys get their way of slowing down mail delivery, so that instead of one day delivery, it may be two or three, instead of three it may be five, if you do that in my view, and the view of many experts, you're talking about a death spiral the end of the postal service as we know it. >> what i find amazing about this there are a lot of republican legislators from rural america.

when they go home won't they get an earful, what happened to my post office did have to do that. they say the union people and making too much money, can't make any money, wrong. the republicans in the lame duck session of the congress passed a law put them in an untenable position financially that is caused all this. you're coming back with a business plan that wants to diversify the services of the post office to make them more competitive, that is what they're doing in other countries but of course we have to do the american way, cut jobs and move forward. are you going to get any bipartisan support on this? >> i believe we will. we're picking up a lot of democratic support, a bill has some good aspects to it. we have to strengthen it. i have at least 20, 25 senators, democrats who want to see it strengthen, i think a number of republicans, just for the reason you gave. when senators go home and go to rural areas, people understand that a post office is not just a post office, it's an sbeg integral part of the small community.

>> bernie sander, thank you for sticking up for what is right in this country. sean hannity has wild claims about the death of osama bin laden, the number one terrorist in the world. i'll explain the truth to sean with my tape, next. stay tuned.

up next, sean hannity says there are tapes, actual tapes, to prove that the president of the united states did not want to get osama bin laden. i've got some tapes that prove him wrong. in the big finish, kathleen vinehout, one of the 14 senators that left the state "the ed show" will be right back.

i read that bill o'reilly says msnbc doesn't deal in facts.

he should check out his own net works before throwing accusations. tell your buddy sean hannity to explain his attack on the obama administration. >> they have a bad economy, $5 trillion in debt. they have foreign policy shown a lot of weakness, the president will say we got bin laden, putting that aside. >> the public gives him credit for that. >> the public does but it wouldn't have happened if he had his way and i think that can be proven as well on tape. >> tapes? want tapes? sean hannity thinks there are tapes showing the president didn't want to get osama bin laden? "the ed show" we wrote @seanhannity needs to show the tape. he did not support guantanamo bay enhanced interrogation tams.

sean, look, stop with the distractions. hannity claimed torture helped find bin laden but he's wrong, very wrong, i have my own tape to prove it. white house deputy national security advisor john brennan was asked about it pointpointblank. >> there is word water boarding played a big role in actually getting the information integral in finding bin laden, is that the case? >> not to my knowledge. >> now, i have more tape for you, sean. barack obama was clear about his intention when he was on the campaign trail that he was going to track down bin laden, he said this before he was elected back in 2008. >> if we have osama bin laden in our sights, and the pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then i think that we have to act and we will take them out.

we will kill bin laden, we will crush al qaeda, that has to be our biggest national security priority. >> he wasn't kidding, was he? after taking office, president obama ordered then cia director leon panetta to expand every effort coming out with a detailed plan to find osama bin laden. the president, he got his way. in march of 2011 when obama was presented with several strategies to get bin laden, he got his way. again. in fact, he pushed forward over the objections of his then secretary of defense robert gates, the vice chairman of the joints chief of staff and his own vice president. the president got his way and got osama bin laden. hannity spent eight years propping up a president who admitted he didn't care about getting bin laden. president bush lost interest six months after 9-11. >> i don't know where he is, i don't spend that much time on him.

i truly am not that concerned about him. >> bush was so unconcerned that he outsourced the attempt to get bin laden at tora bora in 2002. then disband the bin laden unit in the cia in 2006. so hannity can keep misleading his viewers on fox about osama bin laden, and attacking this administration's foreign policy. but we all know how president obama will respond to that. >> ask osama bin laden and the 22 out of 30 top al qaeda leaders taken off the field whether i engage in appeasement. or whoever is left out there. ask them about that. >> okay, sean, i've shown you our tapes. now your turn. show us the tapes proving president obama didn't want to kill the number one terrorist in the world, osama bin laden, responsible for 9-11. your move, mr. intellectual

honesty. great news for democrats in wisconsin. we've got the details, plus, state senator kathleen vinehout is here to share news of her own. you won't want to miss it, stay with us.

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it's about support where you find it most comfortable. at the ultimate sleep number event, queen mattresses now start at just $599. and save an astonishing 50% on the final closeout of our innovative limited edition bed. only at the sleep number store. i asked who was the big winner last night, rick santorum or president barack obama? 7% of you said rick santorum, 93% said president obama. scott walker skips town to raise money in florida. the koch brothers are buying ads like crazy in wisconsin. kathleen vinehout joins me how the democrats can fight the koch brother influence in the badger state, stay tuned.

in the big finish the latest development in the effort to recall government scott walker in wisconsin is great news for democrats. the milwaukee journal sentinel estimates 85% of the more than one million recalled signatures can be verified. which means democrats have collected more than enough valid signatures to force a recall election. the nation's john nichols tells us tonight if the number holds it would be one of the highest validation rates ever for a petition of this scale. meanwhile, the man of the center of it all, scott walker, is out of the state again, soaking up sun and sucking up conservatives in florida locking for cash. he gave a speech at naples,

florida, sponsored by an organization funded by who else, other than the koch brothers. it's important for walker to keep them happy because they are bank rolling his campaign. the koch funded group "americans for prosperity" spent $700,000 on a couple ad buys. here is a sample. >> thanks to recent reforms, wisconsin's government is working more effectively and efficiently. >> wisconsin put an end to abuses of collective bargaining, putting taxpayers back in control. >> wisconsin's government is working smarter. >> more to do but the facts show reforms are working. >> the facts don't actually show reforms are working. wisconsin has been losing jobs for six straight months, ever since walker's budget went in effect. ask yourself the question, is that a good thing or a bad thing? here is another one, the state has the worse jobs record in the country. in the united states of america.

democrats seem to be in a strong position for recall, they just need to pick a candidate. one of the democratic candidates in the running to challenge governor walker joins me now, kathleen vinehout, good to have you with us tonight, you're throwing your name in the ring to get the democratic nomination. why are you doing that? >> well, ed, wisconsin needs a new beginning to politics and government. we need a fresh start and i've had people all over the state urge me to run saying kathleen, you're a fresh face, you've got the personal experience, you've got the temper ment to be governor, please won't you run? when you think about this race, ed, this is about the people, this is about the million people that signed those petitions. and what we have to do is come together like never before around a candidate that knows how to run a grass roots campaign, that came from a background as a worker. i've been a dairy farmer, a worker as a nurse's aide, i

taught at the university level. i have a background that is nothing like the world that scott walker lives in right now when he's down in florida. that is the kind of candidate we need, a candidate that will bring wisconsin together. we have to stop pitting business against workers. we have to stop pitting the private sector against the public sector. >> senator,ive to ask you --. >> it's about bringing us together. >> one of the big issues is collective bargain, would you veto any bill that has an attack on collective bargaining? >> i went toil noil over collective bargain, didn't i? you bet. >> that is an absolute 100% you won't change it? >> no, no, no. i stuck my neck out on this long ago. >> here is another one. how are you going to counter the money, the koch brother money coming in, super pac money dropping in almost to the tune of a million dollars and

probably a heck of a lot more. how will the democrats or any candidate fight against that? >> well there is no way we're ever going to match his money. it's not going to happen. and i don't mind being known as the candidate who is running on a shoe string budget, but we have something that is proving to be far more powerful than money and that is the efforts of voters all across the state. we have seen people get involved in the recall election that have never been involved in politics before. and they are saying we want to take our government back. we want a governor who knows --. >> i have to ask you quickly --. >> who will serve the people. >> what do you make of scott walker going all over the country raising money? >> well, it's what he's got. he doesn't have the people behind him in wisconsin. he's advance policies that are not consistent with our values in wisconsin. >> kathleen vinehout, thanks so much. that is "the ed show" i'm ed