we asked you at the top of the show what you're doing up at this hour. our producer john tower has some answers. >> i've got a they're who writes although i write you every morning, i tuned in today to see if barnicle could make a repeat performance. >> first of all, he came into work with a hangover and made no apologies for it whatsoever. we talked about how drunk he was on the air, i appreciate you taking the job so seriously. as for where i was yesterday, let's just say and i'm not saying i was there, late tuesday night there was a wonderful benefit concert at carnegie hall where a guy by the name of sean carter put on a show in a white dinner jacket benefitting the shone carter scholarship foundation. i'm told by sources close to me

that it was a great show for a great cause. how about one more, tower? >> i noticed you tweeted out yesterday this. this just happened, someone stole my blackberry at a seven-eleven while i filled a giant tub full of delicious dr. pepper. two big mistakes, shopping at seven-eleven, and drinking dr. pepper. >> 8:00 last night, i'm here in my neighborhood, put the blackberry down, fill up the 72-ounce dr. pepper before bed, right? somebody got my blackberry. you thought you win, mr. thief. i still have my 1999 flip phone, touche. "morning joe" starts right now. they are taking faith and crushing it. why? why? . when you marginalize faith in america, when you remove the

pillar of god-given rights, then what's left? is the french revolution. what's left is the government that gives you right, what's left are no unalienable rights, what's left is a government that will tell you who you are, what you'll do and when you'll do it. what's left in france became the guillitine. ladies and gentlemen, we're a long way from that, but if we do and follow the path of president obama and his overt hostility to faith in america, then we are headed down that road. good morning, it is thursday, february 9th. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset in washington this morning, we have msnbc "time" magazine political analyst mark

haleprin, also political writer >> wow. >> he was hong over and whining. it was unbelievable. >> he's back. mika, we have two big stories in the political world that are going on. we'll get to them. there, of course, first is the hhs decision and the fallout there. you know how democrats like tim kaine who was the president's dnc chair before he decided to run for the senate now opposing the hhs ruling. you have john larsen in the democratic leadership now opposing it. this continues, the ground swell continues, and i think the white house is going to figure out a way to compromise with catholics in a way that puts this behind them. but there's a second part of the story. we've been focusing about, you

know, president obama getting great numbers on friday but having a rough week this week on a bunch of issues that they would probably consider to be side issues they never expected to come up. but the second big story this week is mitt romney. i won't say mitt romney's collapse -- >> or rick santorum, but either way, it's a story. >> mitt romney has had a terrible week. if you look at the editorial pages today. mark haleprin was talking to me before the show, the conservatives aren't panicked, but they are going after mitt romney. really quickly, the "wall street journal." conservatives don't trust mr. romney in part because he gives them little reason to do so. what mr. romney needs to do is make a better, more positive case for his candidacy beyond his business resume. and mark haleprin, the journal basically says you better not just resort to negative attacks against santorum because that's only going to hurt you in the

end. and, of course, the new york post, an editorial read just a snippet from there. >> i closed that up. >> well, he basically -- he says the same thing. >> basically the same thing. the romney campaign says on the record, our campaign is based on organization and money and we're going to destroy anybody who gets in our way. he has to have a message beyond reciting song lyrics, beyond saying i was a successful businessman. he started yesterday, willie showed on "way too early" a clip of him talking in an extended way a story from his past that a lot of people said why don't you talk more about that when he ministered to poor people as a leader in his church in boston. but this is a restive period, the insiders all say eventually romney will probably win this. >> this morning, though, mika, he said something that he hasn't said. mark said he didn't believe it, but there's a possibility of a

brokered convention. because the numbers right now if it continues this way, i mean, he doesn't get 50%, does he? >> he's got to get close to 50% to avoid a real fight at the convention. and if he doesn't put it away by super tuesday, if santorum and gingrich and paul are all still alive and accumulating delegates under the rules, i think it'd be very hard for him to get above 45% and i'm not sure what happens. >> all right. so there's a lot going on. and let's let this conversation breathe because there are several dynamics i'd like to get back to what you started with. but first, rick santorum, spent the day yesterday you heard at the top of the show sharing personal stories about faith with a chapel full of pastors in texas. over 100 clergy members prayed for his well being on the campaign trail. >> we thank you for the grace and goodness that motivates rick

santorum to run for president and to care about this country. we thank you for the goodness and grace of the pastors and the people in this room that are motivated to seek your kingdom first. >> it's a telling image for rick santorum, and it also presents, michael steele, a visual challenge for mitt romney. and i certainly am not suggesting for a second that one of those pastors for rick santorum were doing that for any other reason -- i've been in a lot of groups where people prayed for me, and god knows i needed the prayers more than anybody else, but that still, they weren't calculated about it. but that still presents mitt romney the mormon a challenge when this is happening in texas and you've got all these super tuesday states. there are a lot of evangelicals that see that scene and conservative catholics and go, that guy's one of us. >> that's very true, and it's a

very powerful image. and in that moment for rick santorum, it's not just a spiritual upliftment, but it's a little one too because of what you just said. but for romney, the challenge remains exactly how you put it to come across as authentic and real. the "wall street journal's" talking about it in stark terms and in other republican or conservative publications are doing the same. the question for him is how does he breakthrough? now, everyone's looking to cpak this week, which begins today, as that moment, as he addresses what will be the largest turnout of conservatives. are you going to get the traditional romney approach? we've got the mechanics, we've got the policies, we've got the positions? or will we see something more humble, authentic, real, that lets conservatives know i'm in this fight for you and with you. and that piece as long as it's missing with super tuesday coming up, it's going to be a long haul. brokered convention, that could be just the beginning. >> so faith is playing a role in

their speeches, and i think they're responding to a lot of things going on. here's mitt romney trying to mix his business background with his mormon faith. take a look. >> in my church, we don't have a professional ministry, so people are asked to serve as the minister or the pastor of their congregation from time to time. and i had that privilege for, i think, over ten years. and in that capacity, i had the chance to work with people who lost their jobs, in some cases, or were facing other financial distress, losing their homes, and i found those kind of circumstances were not just about money and numbers, they were about lives and emotions and sometimes marriages suffered. sometimes people became depressed, clinically depressed. being out of work a long time is a real -- is a real threat and challenge to human happiness. and i feel this president's let us down. >> you know, mike barnicle, the tone is just remarkably different than what we've seen in the past where he's obviously

readi reading teleprompters, market-tested lines, singing "god bless america." the story about his dad, which people mocked yesterday, people that don't understand that actually that's what mitt romney needs to do. he needs to reveal more about himself and stop reading pollster lines. and then that story about actually being with people who were distressed for economic reasons seems to me that's a tact that may connect. >> well, joe, he's got a couple of issues to deal with. and apparently he's stumbling after dealing with both of them. one is as you indicated in that clip that we showed yesterday in the speeches when we talk about his dad the night before. he's got to humanize himself to the american public and especially to the republicans he's dealing with in the primaries. the other thing that he and his campaign have to deal with. and i get the impression they're trying to deal with it. for months they have tried not

to make big pronouncement on how conservative he really would be as president of the united states feeling they could then tack back to the middle more in the fall campaign. but he has now got to lay out, it appears, his conservative principles. what he will actually do as president on the economic front and on the domestic front. he's got to be much more specific because of the rise of the challenge that santorum and others have presented to him just quite recently on the right. >> no doubt about it. and of course, that's the romney story going on. it's a huge story, but also, of course, president obama is facing his challenges this week to his own party. >> and i think the republican candidate's speeches are reflecting that and responding to it. but the other big story is that a number of democrats this morning, including john larsen and former dnc chair tim kaine now joining catholic leaders in calling on the white house to

modify a policy requiring faith-based groups to offer employers birth control through their insurance providers. some supporters of the president worry the mandate could become a defining issue for the 2012 election. now, the controversy is spilling over into congress. where republican house speaker john boehner is promising to lead an effort to overturn the rule. >> in opposing this requirement, the federal government has drifted dangerously beyond its constitutional boundaries, encroaching on religious freedom in a manner that affects millions of americans and harms some of our nation's most vital institutions. if the president does not reverse the department's attack on religious freedom, then the congress acting on behalf of the american people and the constitution that we're sworn to uphold and defend, must. this attack by the federal government on religious freedom in our country must not stand and will not stand. >> all right.

so back at the white house, press secretary jay carney says president obama is open to finding ways to address catholics' concerns. still, the political implications are clear. as both the white house and mitt romney seized on the issue. >> this is i think iranic that mitt romney is expressing -- criticizing the president for pursuing a policy that's virtually identical to the one that was in place when he was governor of massachusetts. >> mr. carney needs to check his history, that provision was put in massachusetts before i was governor and when i was governor, i tried to have it removed in our health care plan. so in the working of our health care plan, i worked very hard to get the legislature to remove all the mandated coverages, including contraception. so quite clearly, he needs to understand that was a provision that got there before i did and it was one that i fought to

remove. >> you know, mika, obviously there were also reports that joe biden practicing catholic, a guy that takes his faith very seriously had -- >> tried to warn them. >> tried to warn them what would happen. but they didn't listen to him. >> so a couple of things, sam stein, help me out here -- >> let me push back on that. >> yeah. >> but he didn't offer as any details as to why they were upset. you get the sense they probably were closer to accurate than he led on. >> and there was a problem with the messaging here and some at the table here who think i moo might ne might need to be educated on this. first of all, you talk about compromise that the white house is looking for. they always were. they always were. this was this period of one to two years. they're not looking to force this down the throat of the catholic church in two years. that is a miscon trued

misconstrued rendition of what's happened. that's being edited by the right by speaker boehner calling it an attack. >> should we call tim kaine and let him know that? should we ask tim kaine and john larson and all these democrats and tell them they're wrong, and senator manchin. should we tell the "usa today" editorial page? this isn't the republican party. this isn't some right-wing jihad against the white house. >> my question, sam, is and michael, actually, both of you, all of you. weren't policies like this in place during the bush administration? and i didn't see republicans shocked and appalled at the attack by the federal government. is this like the debt and spending where it's only bad when they're not the ones doing it or they're not the ones in power? is this just kind of that -- >> it was in place in certain

states, but not by the bush administration itself. >> well, they should have been fighting it because it's so shocking and such an attack. this should have been a war. >> well, i think, you know, the problem here is not -- and i might be wrong, i'm jewish, i'm not a catholic. i think the problem here is not the contraception issue, which polls very well. people use contraception, even catholics polled are fine with it. the problem i think people have with it is the federal government saying to catholic hospitals and universities that you will have to -- as part of the plans, health care plans you offer your employees, it will have to include this. now, you know, if you actually asked that question of people, they're not upset with it. as an ideological position, that is a problem. and this is why you get -- i think this is also why mitt romney's having a difficult week is that it dovetails right into two issues that are difficult for him. one is he's not comfortable talking about religion so much like santorum, but secondly, it

reminds people that his health care plan in massachusetts included a mandate. and when he was governor of massachusetts he did not, as you say, object wildly to this issue like he is now. and i think it's perfectly reasonable for you to point out that all of these voices who are incredibly loud right now -- >> where were they? >> it was tim kaine. >> i saw tim kaine -- i called the kaine campaign to get a little clarification on this. and they -- i see what they're talking about. they say we're not opposed to making sure that people have contraception. in fact, we want everyone to have access to contraception without co-pays, but we want to expand the religious exemptions to other institutions. and i think that's a perfectly reasonable point to have, but they're not in disagreement with the president's health care approach. >> with his goal. with his goal. >> exactly. >> this was ham fisted, david axelrod made news the other day and said they're willing to compromise. they certainly really -- >> you're going to see them8>y

>> and willie, a warning to the left who right now want to make this about contraception. if they want to make this about contraception, they really don't understand what the controversy's about. because, you know, i don't think most americans have problems with contraception. it's the federal government telling a church mandating what a church must do with their organizations and i'll give you a good example for my church. i'm a southern baptist, usually don't let women be deacons. i think that's sort of a bad idea. i think women should be deacons as well as men. that's my personal belief. but if the federal government -- if the justice department offers a mandate ordering southern baptists to make women deacons, i would be the first to say, get the hell out of our business. >> this is not a parallel.

>> it is a parallel too. >> because you're trying to make it about medicine. you're trying to make it about one particular thing. what i -- what i'm saying is the crux of this is, this is a first amendment issue where the federal government is stepping in and telling a religious institution what to do. willie? >> well, joe, you've put your finger on why this is a great issue for republicans, not just a social issue, but if you listen to what john cornyn said yesterday. this highlights the disconnect between president obama and his concept about the role of the federal government and its intrusiveness into people's lives. so republicans, conservatives can take this issue and make a broader point about the way president obama has wanted to take over the government in their view -- take over health care in their view and push his values on people who don't share them. and we also talked the other day about how this could hurt the

president politically. bob casey, democratic senator of pennsylvania a week ago, on friday before this exploded rushed out a statement saying the president of the united states needs to reverse this. this is a democrat in pennsylvania in a state obviously the president needs to win. this is a problem for him in places like pennsylvania. >> that's what we were bringing up earlier. you know what i don't understand, mika. mika and i were trying to figure out, the president has pundit on the keystone pipeline because he knows it'll upset environmentalists. and we know he is going to support the keystone pipeline. >> yes. absolutely. >> everybody knows that. why did he not wait cynically until after the election -- since there's a one year or two-year waiting period, why didn't he wait on this when catholics or the swing voter in american -- >> because i think they made a political calculation and put it in the context that mika's been arguing that this will be more about the science and more about

the health of women and more about those broader subjects as opposed to the very difficult angle on the relationship between the government and church. but keep in mind, this administration has been down this road before. and severely smacked down by the united states supreme court on january 11th this year in the hosana case where they claim that the federal government could make a decision with respect to the hiring -- the relationship between the religious institutions and the government. and the supreme court said no way, you're out of bounds there. there's that separation, you're breaching it. >> let's not put the health of women in boxes or quotes like. that's not an insignificant consideration. it's fine for us talking about this -- >> hold on a second. >> i'm not trying to -- >> come on. >> i'm deadly serious about that. >> don't suggest that you're only the one that gives a damn -- >> i'm not suggesting -- >> because i'm a man because we

don't want the federal government telling religious institutions -- >> when it moves away from the approach and start talking about the science and who it benefits. we were talking about why he didn't -- a lot of people actually benefit from this. >> that's not the point i'm making. the administration looked at it through political lenses. >> they looked at it because they believe there's a right to have equal access to these medical opportunities. medical needs, and they were being political, they wouldn't have done it. >> no, they were -- listen, the reason they made this mistake, and it is a political mistake because they don't have a conservative, conservative catholic in their inner circle. they don't have a conservative evangelical. if they had 1 out of 100, the person would've said. like bob casey, the democrat from pennsylvania, he would've gone, guys, you're going to get killed.

and let me tell you, the reason i object to this oh i care about the rights of women's health, and this is what's so maddening about this controversy, it is so easy to diffuse. where they could have said, okay, listen, bishop, this is what we're going to do. we're going to ask your institutions to provide health care to women and everybody else and then we're going to have a carve out and we're going to figure out how we can get a third party provider for contraceptives. that whey you're prote that way you're protected, women's health is protected. that's what they're doing now after they were busted. >> no, they were not busted. >> mika -- >> guys, i want to make one other point. >> seriously? >> hold on, we'll keep going. i think the misfire here, as well, was being worried about the catholic following, which is very different than the catholic

leadership. and the catholic following uses birth control. >> correct. >> okay. so they assumed this would -- >> mika, as i said earlier, though -- >> and i'm sorry, it's kind of hypocritical -- >> you can try to make this about contraception, it's not about contraception -- >> it kind of is. >> if the federal government steps into my church and tells my church how to run its business, i along with the other members of my church are going to tell them to get the hell out that there's a separation between church and state and it was put there for a reason. >> it's like our "parade" magazine article this sunday about food, but it's about the same thing. >> i have no idea. on that note. coming up, we're going to be talking about senator tom coburn, jim demint, and chair of the house budget committee congressman paul ryan. this is the opening of cpak and there you have the three amigos.

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♪ hey, welcome back to "morning joe." sam stein, beautiful shot of washington, d.c. sam stein is off the set. >> he left. >> he is off fighting for the health of women everywhere. >> the cause. >> and trying to create -- >> i think sam had a very good point. you all are -- >> sam said his mother's an obgyn, if he had not had said that -- >> do you not agree there's a strain of hypocrisy. >> there's a strain of hypocrisy

in all parties on all issues. >> a massive one. >> yes, massive on the left, massive on the right. >> all of a sudden they're shocked and appalled like they've never seen this before, this has never happened in this country. >> i knew when i started seeing this half way through for mother jones on my twitter feed yesterday this was going to get in -- you know, democrats can do what democrats want to do and the left can do what they want to do. i will tell you, politically, it is best for the republican pa y party, it is best for the conservative movement for democrats to dig their heels in and ignore bob casey, ignore tim kaine, ignore john larson. go ahead, i don't care. again, contraceptives, i'm all for them. i mean, if the left wants to fight this battle, fight it. now, let's talk about super pacs, mike allen, you are here. >> welcome to d.c. >> politico playbook. >> one thing we're not hearing is the truth about super pacs, and the fact washington doesn't like super pacs. washington loves them.

why? >> don't tell anybody, they're great for business, and peop people -- there's this great industry in washington that's bashing the president for making this decision which he clearly was going to make for a long time. now he's just making obvious what he was going to do. but super pac ads fuel consultants and pollsters and it's part of the great washington industry. and the administration had to do this, they had to put out this because all of a sudden we're going to have campaign officials cabinet members turning up at these events. but they made the calculation that no one, no one decides their vote on this. that it's a big issue here, not so much -- >> it's just payday. >> it doesn't matter for most american voters. i think big government types are obviously offended by this. but campaign finance, mark haleprin, have you ever known any campaign to turn on a campaign finance issue? >> no, in 2010, after the supreme court decision, the president and his allies made --

tried to make a big issue of it in the election and voters, it's too much process. if you asked some voters, they do think too much money in politics, it unites the tea party movement and the occupy movement, but it does not drive an election, does not drive voter behavior. >> the campaign finance? >> which is the perfect scenario because you can go ahead and beat your chest on it all day long -- >> the white horse. >> why you take the money. >> while you take the money. >> well, of course -- the president in 2008 said he was going to take public financing and limit his contributions, and the second he figured out he could raise more than john mccain, he quickly turned. voters didn't care because it's a process -- he's done the same thing on super pacs now. voters won't care because it's a process. >> it hurts obama more than most politicians because he said he was different. but there's a clear calculation here, we'll take the two-day hit and we'll take the money. >> well, yeah. and don't they feel like they

have to take the money if republicans are raising $100 million, $200 million, and $300 million in super pacs? >> how do they not? >> the money was coming in so slowly, people weren't getting the message. now they've taken the biggest billboard of all. >> you say you're standing on principle, except when you feel it keeps you from winning the election. >> that's process, people aren't going to care. they didn't care four years ago, i don't think they're going to care now. >> mike allen, thank you very much. >> so nice to stop by. >> nice to see you in person. willie geist, what's next? we've all heard of tebowing, but now there's a new pose sweeping the nation. we'll show you next. it involves a patriots quarterback. >> stop it. plus will ferrell adds another classic to his resume tape. guest public address announcer for the new orleans hornets. we'll be right back. [ female announcer ] the best things in life are the real things.

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welcome back to "morning joe." time for a little sports. the rivalry resumed last night. fifth ranked north carolina at

home against duke. carolina entered the game with a school record 31-game home winning streak. late in the first, unc star big man with a big block and carolina's running as the clock runs down. at the end of the half, that puts carolina up three at halftime. the crowd in chapel hill. carolina up by as many as 13, but back came duke. curry with a three right there, duke turned the ball over to the freshman austin rivers. >> he's on his own! the blue devils win 85-84! >> the freshman austin rivers, a team high 29 points including the game winner, he is the son of zach rivers, boston celtics head coach doc rivers. there we go, there's doc

cheering for his son. duke with the buzzer-beater comes back to beat carolina at home. you've got to be happy for doc. >> oh, absolutely. he flies almost every day the celtics aren't playing to watch one of his sons play basketball. >> his first game in that rivalry, scores 29 points on the road. in the nba, lebron james standing by his comment. remember, we told you last week on twitter where he praised that monster dunk by blake griffin over perkins of oklahoma city. after the slam, remember, lebron tweeted it was the best dunk of the year. kendrick perkins doesn't like all this talk. he's taken offense to lebron's observation. perkins said, you don't see kobe tweeting, you don't see michael jordan tweeting. at the end of the day, the guys playing for the right reasons are not worrying about one play. lebron is always looking for attention and he wants the world to like him. james says perkins is simply

joining the blame lebron band w wagon. just throw lebron's name in there, you could be watching cartoons with your kids and you don't like it, you blame it on lebron. if you go to the grocery store and they don't have the milk you like, you say it's lebron's fault. >> why do you think i had a hangover? >> you were very public with that hangover yesterday, i was told. >> it was pretty obvious. >> couldn't hide that one. in the beginning, we have tebowing, over the last couple of months everybody was tebowing. >> don't do this. >> now we've got bradying. it involves sitting on the floor, legs out, head down as tom brady did after throwing an interception in the fourth quarter of the super bowl. the board behind this guy reads, i can't throw and catch the ball as giselle famously says. the patriots fan apparently wearing his wife's patriots' t-shirt after a few beers leaning against the dog house

doing the brady. here's a guy bradying before doing his weather report on the local news. this is just wrong. >> okay. >> and apparently -- there you go. we've got bradying. >> it's time to stop now. >> willie, when are we going to show will ferrell? >> standby. coming up. >> really? >> yeah. >> you know what they call that? they call that d feed. >> that's a d feed. chairman of the american conservative union joins us from cpak for the must-read opinion pages. we'll be right back. ttd# 1-800-345-2550

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all right. welcome back at 43 past the hour. and look at that beautiful shot. >> don't you love this? >> yes. before we get to our next guest, mark haleprin, you are looking at a bloomberg story -- some perspective to have this contraceptive issue, the new hhs policy that came about. >> a lot of great reporting about the process. both bill daly the former chief of staff and joe biden warned this was politically dangerous and potentially bad policy. and that this was discussed over a long period of time. this didn't happen accidentally, and there was a lot of lobby going on by the women senators and women who -- >> pro-choice -- >> reproductive rights. and this was a considered decision and that they had, in fact, considered, we talked a lot about the hawaii model of an exemption that that was considered and rejected. >> that he rejected the

hawaii -- >> according to the story, the detail including an interview with kathleen sebelius, what's described as a three-minute interview, which is my favorite kind because it's very efficient. she said she met with the president about it and was discussed and broadly considered and there was a group of people in the white house who felt very strongly that this was the right policy. >> who supported that? how did it break down? who was for it? who was against it? >> well, according to this story and i don't know if i owe bloomberg money or they owe me money, but valerie jarrett and kathleen sebelius all were very adamant as well as, you know, women senators -- >> so women? >> yeah. >> yeah. >> that's interesting. >> but the fact that there was the political -- people have looked at this to some extent as a blunder without having thoughtful -- without the opposing position being presented, this story suggests two pretty influential people in

the white house, the chief of staff and the vice president both catholics, both with great political ears said -- >> don't do it. >> because politically it would be painful. >> blue collar catholics, blue collar states -- >> joe biden has incredible political instincts about voters and the broad country. he would've seen the constitutional issues and the first amendment issues that this would implicate for a lot of people. >> all right. >> i think there's two ways to see that story. >> let's bring in the chairman of the american conservative union. al, always great to talk to you. cpac starting up this week. let's start with an easy question. what's wrong with mitt romney? the "wall street journal" today say conservatives don't trust mr. romney in part because he gives them little reason to do so. do you agree with the editorial page of the "wall street journal"? >> well, he's going to be here tomorrow in front of 10,000

conservatives. he opened a focus group, and he's got to make a case he's an authentic conservative. he believes he can. we'll see how the crowd rackets and we have a ballot on saturday to see how they felt about their candidates. this is a good place for him to be. he's got to get the seal of approval from conservatives to move forward and get a victory and unite the party. i don't know a better place to do than that here. that'll be up to him and an exciting speech to watch. >> al, you know what's fascinating about this and people don't remember, but four years ago it is unbelievable cpac conservatives saw mitt romney as their knight in shining armor to beat john mccain. and he actually decided to step down at cpac and people were booing, no, no! fight on! can you believe he's gone from his status four years ago as a conservative hero at cpac to now being a guy that most

conservative columnists say we just don't trust him?fy-vdñsxñ >> well, you know, four years ago he started out with rudy giuliani and john mccain. and they was clearly the candidate to the right. this time around, he's got, you know, rick santorum and newt gingrich and some fiscal issues ron paul that are trying to run to the right of him. and so it's interesting how different dynamics every four years play out. this is the first time, actually, in more than two decades that when he rolls around in cpac, our primary is still in play because as you said, four years ago mitt, everyone shocked in this audience said, hey, i'm giving this up and endorsing john mccain. so he's got -- he's got some hurdles here. but i think the guy with the biggest challenge is going to be newt gingrich. you know, mitt's still perceived as a front-runner. santorum's coming in with a lot of momentum. but what's newt going to say?

he's probably got the biggest burden of the four of them. >> michael steele, good to see you again, buddy. >> hey, chairman, good to see you. >> on that point, you know, okay, setting mitt aside, you've now got santorum and din grich that are really kind of defining their own turf. how do you -- is it reflective of what we've seen around the country from the grass roots and the base? or is it something different. are they more concerned, less concerned? what's the general mood coming into this event for the next couple of days? >> well, listen, i heard your comments earlier about the hhs decision. people here are coming very angry. angrier than they were two weeks ago. and it's not just social conservatives. any time that big government imposes their will against the average american will, people are coming here angrier than i've seen in a long time. and remember, almost 50% of those people who will be here

under 25. and they get passionate and they get loud and it'll be pretty, pretty cool to see how it works out over the next three days. >> al, let me ask you the great question, you're obviously a florida gu republican party, good friend of ours, jeb bush, his name is going to be coming up over the next couple of weeks. mark haleprin's talking about the possibility of a brokered convention. do you think we can drag jeb bush into it by the end of it? >> well, listen, as you know, he's a friend of both of ours. i think that there's a lot of people here in that whisper campaign about jeb bush, but boy, it'll be pretty strange to have a brokered convention. we haven't had one since '76. the way the dice rolls in this primary process makes it very hard. but it's all up to march 6th. if we have mixed results on march 6th, looks leak thike thi

go down the wrong way, i think he'll become more of a talking item without a doubt. >> and that's what you said. super tuesday could really possibly lead to sort of brokered convention. >> romney on track to be the nominee. but he needs to be strong on arizona and michigan day and strong on super tuesday. >> al, thank you so much. >> we'll see you soon, al. willie's news you can't use and what you were looking for is coming up next. ♪ yo

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oh, is it time? >> it is. >> is it time, willie? >> it is, mika. time for news you can't use. new orleans hornets are horrifyingly bad this year, they're 4-22, there's only one team worse in the nba, the charlotte bobcats are 3-22. how do you keep fans in the seats? how do you get people to come to the game? you call will ferrell who is in new orleans and ask him, beg him, be the public address announcer for the evening and read the starting lineup. >> at forward, number five, he still lives with his mother, carlos, at guard, number one, his favorite movie is "the

notebook," derrick rose. at center, 6'10" from connecticut where he majored in e con but he minored in love. >> a couple more from the chicago bulls. he collects rare birds and has a pet dolphin named chachi. he's a scorpio and a horrible dancer, joe, and he once ate 20 hot dogs in an hour ronnie brewer. why not bring him on full-time? all right. still ahead, we're going to talk to senator tom coburn, senator jim demint, also congressman paul ryan to get us back on track here. [ leanne ] appliance park has been here since the early 50s.

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they are taking faith and crushing it. why? why? when you marginalize faith in america, when you remove the pillars of god-given rights, then what's left is the french revolution. a government that gives you rights. what's left are no unalienable rights. what's left is a government that

will tell you, who you are, what you'll do, and when you'll do it. what's left in france became the guillitine. we're a long way from that, but if we do follow the path of president obama and the overt hostility to face an america, then we are headed down that road. >> hi, chuck. >> welcome back to "morning joe." mark haleprin and sam stein are with us. joining us onset, the host of the "daily rundown," chuck todd. chuck, we've got a couple of stories going. >> you made it. >> what? >> weather events. >> oh, my gosh. >> very concerned. it was raining here, are you guys okay in new york? >> you see my response, right. the end of the world, the great new york city frost of 2012. >> sorry. >> let's go to the bloomberg

story. chuck, we want your input on the two big stories of the week. one hhs, and there's a lot about the infighting that led up to this that provides some light. but also mitt romney getting absolutely hammered by all of the conservative outlets today. not a good week for mitt romney or obama. >> vice president joe biden and white house chief of staff bill daly raised early concerns about the potential political backlash to an hhs mandate requiring faith-based groups to offer employees birth control. the article says biden and daly were concerned the provision might alienate catholic voters. kathleen sebelius was a leading voice in pushing for the mandate. sebelius was reportedly joined by several female obama advisers in that division.

>> so -- >@is two different ways. >> so -- >> by the way, how does bloomberg find out about that? who's the current members of the white house staff? and who's a former member of the white house staff? >> i don't know. >> interesting. >> but they had melody barnes, valerie jarrett, and the first lady's chief of staff as well as secretary sebelius all saying this is a bad idea. the irish/catholic guys saying don't go that way. what is -- is there a long-term political impact on this? or is this just sort of a february storm -- >> they think there is going to be a long-term political impact. the white house think it's going to be their advantage. they think what the republican party is doing to this, the susan g. komen fight, defunding of planned parenthood. they think all of these things will be nonstarters for the republican when it comes to the

suburban women. they think ultimately they admit -- you talk to some folks -- they admit they weren't very good at it, but they think ultimately they will win this on point. >> and in the long run, suburban -- >> white catholic men haven't been for democrats in a long time. >> yeah. >> in the long run they believe that in the philadelphia suburbs, i-4 corridor in florida, all these swing districts, there'll be suburban women that will be scared -- >> more sympathetic. >> can i just -- i just want to ask if what everybody here thinks this is about. i'll tell you what i think it's about. i think it's about the hourly wage female employee at the hospital who needs to be able to have access to contraceptives and maybe not have to pay a copay just like other people who are covered and there needs to be a third party or some way of that person being covered. and that's the issue, and that's what the women in the white

house if you want to characterize the bloomberg story that way, are fighting for. >> i don't think so. >> people should have the health care if they so desire it. >> i think what this is about is the white house playing to a pro-choice base that they think will help them out in the fall. and i think chuck's right. we talked about this before. they had alternatives, they had the hawaii option. they had compromises they could have led with. but if they had led with those compromises, you would have had barbara boxer. you would have had -- they don't want a compromise they didn't want a compromise because they think as chuck said this is good politically for them in the long run. >> easy to have loud voices on this and to make it all about politics. there's two competing principles. the there's the first amendment and access -- equal access to quality health care. the problem is as i said yesterday, this needs to be led by the president. he needs to actually engage on what both principles are and how he wants to balance it, not have

his hhs secretary put out regulations that clearly have inflamed one side and not the other. the proponents of equal access to health care are fine with this rule, the catholic church and many americans and politicians, including some democrats are not. he must lead the discussion rather than hoping -- >> so, chuck, they didn't want the compromise according to the bloomberg story, the hawaii compromise. >> well, i think you're going to hear -- about the hawaii compromise and the wisconsin compromise, the different ways -- >> what they're going to say is those compromises are -- >> are part of why -- >> why they put the grace period in so they can find one like it. >> right. and -- >> as a bloomberg story says, that spin is simply that, it's spin and it's not true because they actually debated inside the white house going forward to the hawaii compromise and decided not to do it for political reasons. >> no, they thought it would

aliena alienate, that it would upset women and it couldn't -- if you lead -- and here's the other thing. if you lead with that, it wouldn't have appeased the church groups. they still would have been upset and then all of a sudden your point of compromise is where? then you're shifting on the message. >> the grace period was not to find a compromise as i understand it, it was a grace period where they had a chance to implement the -- >> oh, no, my understanding and before -- >> that's not what the reporting is showing. >> before the fire storm, the grace period is to work out a compromise, to find a way that -- >> no. >> it wasn't before. the reporting clearly shows it wasn't before. >> well, i did some on my own and i was told this before everyone started going off on the set here. i mean, i don't know what to say. >> we're not going off on the set -- >> no, i do think -- >> just because the white house is telling you, oh, there is no understanding in the national media -- there's no understanding whatsoever that this one-year grace period

was -- or the two-year was to work a compromise. you will not find that in the white house statements, in the kathleen sebelius statements, you will not find that in any reporting. only now that they're backed into a corner are they saying, oh, well, that was just to try to figure out a compromise. >> so you think that i'm incorrect and that the grace period was just a year wait to then ram it down the throat of the catholic church? >> actually, you said it was more than a year wait. >> it's not. that's correct. >> the leaders of the catholic church clearly stated that it was their understanding and their lawyers' understanding from reading the regulations that they were being asked to turn their backs on 2,000 years of church teaching in a year or two. >> that would be some opinion writer's version of it. and i would say -- >> no, that's -- >> the -- >> working out a compromise. >> i would be shocked if we didn't hear the white house announce, you know. they haven't done the rule yet. they announced the policy, not the rule.

i will be shocked if they don't try to "finish this" this week. whether it's the president that rolls it out. whoever it is to roll it out, i'm with mark here, i think at this point, whether they wanted to or not at the beginning, they're stuck. >> mike barnicle, what's your opinion? did the white house get caug caught -- well, i won't use that analogy. did the white house get surprised by this? or did they plan all along to work out a compromise with the catholic church? >> you know, i think they misjudged what the reaction would be, joe. and luckily for them, the catholic church is all about forgiveness. so they will be forgiven for their misjudgment. because this is not about contraception. this is the 21st century. no woman's health services are going to be without contraception in the 21st century. that's not going to happen. this is about the threat of the extension of the federal government into places like

notre dame university, georgetown university, catholic charities, all the works that are done by the catholic church around this country in helps the poor, feeding the poor, that's what this is about. not about contraception. >> you're exactly right. with us now from cpac, the founder and chairman of the faith and freedom coalition, ralph reid. ralph, we want to ask you about this hhs ruling because we know that you're really torn on it. but instead, we're going to go to the review and outlook of the "wall street journal" today. their main editorial on mitt romney. conservatives don't trust mr. romney in part because he gives them so little reason to do so. should conservatives trust mitt romney? >> well, i think joe as you well know this is a marathon, it's not a sprint. and it can be -- it can be a bloody marathon. i mean, this is a very tough business to win a major party nomination, and mitt romney

given his more moderate pedigree, given the health care plan that he passed in massachusetts, given that in the past he has been pro-choice and pro-gay rights, i think i understate the case to say that he has some work to do. now, the good news for romney is that this is not his first time around the track. remember, joe, that when he came to the podium that is just behind me right now four years ago, he was welcomed as a conservative hero who had taken on john mccain from the right. so he's built some relationships, he won the tea party vote, he won the self-identified conservative vote. and he basically was within the margin of error. on self-identified evangelicals in florida. obviously had a tough night the other night, but one night does not a nomination make. this is a long process. in 2000, when i was working for george w. bush, you know, we

came out of south carolina with a head of steam and lost michigan three days later. >> yeah. >> so i would just caution people not to overreact based on a single nice result, whether it's pro-romney or anti-romney. >> come on, ralph. that's what we do. that's what we do. we always look at the last election and that's what we have the attention span of amebas, if that. >> chuck todd is here. >> what does it say, though, about mitt romney that he's struggling to beat rick santorum and newt gingrich who didn't come in here -- didn't come into this campaign with a lot of money, a lot of organization, a lot of support. >> right. >> particularly rick santorum, he lost to somebody, you know, george w. bush lost to john mccain who had an organization, who had money. rick santorum didn't spend any money either. >> in colorado. >> right. >> a little bit in missouri. but that was a total just sort

of straw vote of conservatives, and they went dramatically. >> well, you know, chuck, you've covered this stuff for years. so you know that in 2008, mike huckabee spent a nickel in georgia and beat john mccain. he probably spent a dime in virginia and beat john mccain. what was that a sign of in 2008? it was a sign that john mccain, if he were to become the nominee had a lot of work to do to excite, energize, and effectively court the evangelical pro-family and conservative grass roots of the republican party. he ultimately did so. and by the way, on election day '08, john mccain got a higher percentage of the evangelical vote and a higher percentage of the self-identified conservative vote than george w. bush did in 2000. so when romney comes here he's

going to have to make a forthright case to these grass roots that when it comes to the issues of life and marriage and the issue you were alluding to with religious liberty when it comes to lower taxes and limiting government, he's not only going to check the boxes, but he's going to fight for them. i personally think that this is a good process. when obama and hillary in one of the toughest heavy weight matches we've ever seen in american politics went all the way to june before she conceded, that didn't make the ultimate democratic nominee weaker, it made him stronger and obama was a much better candidate because he had to go 12 rounds with hillary clinton. >> all right. mark haleprin? >> hey, ralph, you said a couple of times somewhat sort of abstractly what romney needs to do. be more specific. is it showing passion and emotion? talking about particular issues he's not been emphasizing? what does he need to do not just at cpac, but conservative voices around the country? >> well, i -- i'm generally

hesitant to offer unsolicited advice to campaigns because it's kind of worthless, you pay for it. >> we're asking you, ralph, go ahead. >> all right. i'll offer it to you vicariously to romney. how about that look, i think this is just my view. i think that up until now, where he's, you know, either through the super pac or through his own campaign or in the debate, i think he's done a very good job of developing sharp contrasts with gingrich and santorum when he needed to, particularly on tv. but i don't think he's yet made the case for himself. the message in my view has been narrow cast on i know how to create jobs, i've been in business, and i -- and i know how the economy works. i think that's a good message for him. but campaigns are not just about biographies. mark, they're about agendas and they're about issues. and i think people need to see that mitt romney is not somebody who just knows how to make the trains run on time and can

manage the federal government better than barack obama and knows how to create jobs. they want somebody who they believe has a vision for where the country should go in a comprehensive way with key issues that contrast him with barack obama and that he's going to fight for him and he has the unique leadership ability to bring it about. >> okay. >> does citing the words of hymns do that for you? >> what? >> does reciting the words of great hymns do that for you? or does he need to do more than that? >> i think he needs to do more than that. but i do think if you look at the mitt romney of today, particularly post south carolina and florida, it's undenial, he's a better candidate, better debater, a sharper message. i commend him for the other day. i think it was in colorado, taking on obama on the issue of religious liberty. i mean one of the great ironies of this campaign is we went in

this campaign saying it's all about jobs and what happened this week? the ninth circuit court of appeals decision on marriages in california, and the ham handed decision by the obama administration to deny religious liberty to catholic and other religious institutions all over america. so there's a cultural subtext even to an election that's a referendum on the economic performance of the incumbent president and that's an opening for romney or any republican nominee if they're smart enough to see this. >> thank you, ralph reed, always great to see you and i'm sure we'll see you over at cpac. >> you bet, joe, good to be with you guys. chuck todd, politics is so fascinating. last friday, jobs number comes out, unemployment down, the stock market way up, and you're thinking, we were thinking last friday, everything's looking great for the president, republicans are in a lot of trouble, and every time you start thinking that, weird

'0dhhs pops up in the ninth circuit decision pops up and suddenly we're in the middle of culture wars. >> you know the economy's getting better, right? whenever the economy's decent, then we have culture wars. apparently that's real. this is the time we need to see the economy -- >> major culture war decisions. these are not small issues, they're big ones. i think it plays well into santorum's hands. >> that's what it does. this couldn't -- yes, the president has been tripped up, frankly on how they've handled the hhs decision, but boy, if you're rick santorum, this is your wheel house. >> oh, my god -- >> and this is where -- and mitt romney's -- in my heart of hearts i was this when it came to the kpeexemption. those are the -- this is not, if this debate is on social issues for the next month, that's not

good. >> unless romney rises to the occasion, cpac could not be a worse time. >> a well-oiled campaign in two -- a well versed talking points on the economy and that's what it would take to get the nomination. and as soon as one of the two ends up by the wayside, it's a lot of trouble. >> you should call into question their campaign. colorado really -- i questioned, well, why didn't they do better in colorado? >> and you know what's so fascinating, the first couple of days on president obama the long-term impact -- >> yeah. >> -- is probably going to be a lot worse for mitt romney. let's put it this way. the challenges are greater to mitt romney in the long run. the social issues popping up this week, they are for barack obama because as chuck said, this plays to the president's base. this plays to some suburban women. so this actually could be an --

>> he was more of a liberal person back in his earlier career. one second, actually, according to the department of health and human services, there was a press release on january 20th. about the one-year grace period and the press release goes on to say that they would like to work with religious institutions to work out something they'd be comfortable with. that's just to clarify you on the timing. this is not backtracking. that's all. okay. still ahead, we're going to talk to senator jim demint. >> that's great. that helps -- >> important information to put on the table. we've got chair of the house budget committee congressman paul ryan coming up. up next, senator tom coburn joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe." this new at&t 4g lte is fast. hey. did you guys hear... ...that mary got engaged? that's so 42 seconds ago.

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i don't have a -- well, i don't have an opinion to express on how the senate does its business with regards to this issue. the fact is because of the negotiations over the debt ceiling that resulted in the budget control act, we have an unusual situation here, and that the top lines for the budget going forward have already been set. and agreed to by republicans and democrats alike. >> so i'm not actually asking your opinion, but the white house -- >> well, i don't have -- >> the white house has no opinion about whether or not the senate should vote. going to introduce one of the fed chair feds, the white house has no opinion about whether? >> i have no opinion, the white house has no opinion on chairman bernanke's assessment of how the senate ought to do its business. >> welcome back tomorning joe." now from capitol hill we have republican senator from oklahoma senator tom coburn joining the conversation. it's great to have you on the

show this morning. thanks for being with us. >> i'm glad to see you. >> well, i think it's being misunderstood and perhaps seized upon by republicans with all due respect, is that possible? >> i don't think it's being misunderstood. this is what you get when you have government-run health care. you have the government going to make decisions and tell people what to do even if it violates basic ten tenants of our constitution. in the long run we all lose when the government is that involved in our lives. >> but what do you make, though, of what the hhs is trying to do here with the one to two-year grace period where they could work out a model like hawaii or was it wisconsin? another state that has one that really does have an answer for everybody involved, at least the

best solution in what is quite frankly a fiery debate, and for many will not be comfortable. nobody will fight -- it's like the abortion controversy. not going to find an answer. but at least a palatable solution. what do you make of the grace period? >> well, i don't think much of it. and let me tell you why. we're so far beyond the effectiveness of our government to implement things. and when we try to do good things, the cost and consequences of an outlay of what we're trying to do is good. if you really want to have health care cost less. if you really want people to have what they need and then create a real safety net that's available to anybody and the needs they have, let markets work. we don't do that, we don't do that in the private insurance market, we don't do it in medicare, don't do it anywhere. and consequently we waste $650 billion a year.

it doesn't keep people well or prevent them from getting sick. but we're still working hard at the government making decision and the insurance industry controlling rather than doctors and patients and market forces allocating. and so we're not going to solve this. and this is -- this is blown out of proportion, but it is an important point in terms of religious liberty, but it's a consequence of having too big of a government. and well-meaning people. there's nothing wrong with their motivation, they're well-meaning people, be uh the consequence is, we lose liberty. >> okay. i have one more question and i'll put it to the table. sorry, if i may. because you're a doctor. i don't know this is about really controlling or attacking the rights of religious institutions. i mean, it seems to me what would you say to a maybe hourly wage worker at a hospital, a catholic hospital who might need a third party to cover the co-pay on contraception?

would you think maybe making the playing field fair in terms of costs something that the government perhaps could help the american public with? >> it's already making -- it's already playing field is level. you can go to the county health department and get the birth control pills for free. we spend $300 million through county health departments now. it's not that it's not available. it's that we're wanting to make a change in mandates. we already have programs available for anybody who can't get birth control to get it. they can get it. it's what we're doing now is saying here's what you must do even if it violates your religious principles. >> and then michael steele, of course, it goes beyond birth control and other procedures, which are extremely hot-button issues. >> they are. and i think the senator has it right. and i wanted to just sort of dovetail on the point that mika was making. in the broader scheme, senator,

and it's good to see you again and appreciate your voice on a number of these issues. and i'm curious as to how you look at this in the context of this presidential campaign. how do you see this being played out in political terms? do you think that the administration has begun to box itself into a corner? or has it been a little bit clever to the extent that this is something that will generate the revenue? it'll generate activism? it'll generate discussion that they think favors, you know, their particular perspective. or is there a real risk here in that it awakens as someone said the sleeping giant of the catholic vote? and certainly conservatives across the country? >> you know, you can ask my colleagues, i'm the last guy who can figure political stuff out. i don't know. what i think is the real shame is we're spending time on this right now other than the principle of religious freedom, and nobody's talking about the

fact this country's bankrupt, every day we fail to fix the problems in front of us, limits the ability for opportunity for jobs, puts our children at risk and our grandchildren at risk for markedly lower standard of living. and what ought to be the focus is why can't the career politicians in washington actually work on the problems in front of the country instead of playing games? that's what i think. and i think this will be a distraction that will be gone or it'll either be a great big deal or nothing. they'll either back out of it or it'll be a big deal. >> sam stein -- >> senator, since you want to talk about other issues, fiscal issues, one of the few things that's coming up that congress does have to deal with is the extension of the payroll tax cut. and obviously two sides right now. democrats want a surtax on millionaires to pay for it. republicans want to cap -- i believe salaries for federal employees. why can't they split it in half and have one-half pay for them

and the other half cover the other cost? unbridgeable again. >> probably going to come for, you know, brinksmanship again. and you're going to see something happen. but i think there's really a more important question. why in the world are we using social security taxes and undermining the one contractual benefit we have that's been solid to benefit? if we, in fact, want to put $120 billion into the economy, we ought to do it a different way than undermining social security. and look, you don't have to raise taxes on anybody and you don't have to freeze federal employees' pensions or benefits to be able to pay $120 billion. i can show you $360 billion per year that you can save tomorrow. we just don't have -- and that goes back to the point. why aren't we working on the real problems? this next week is going to issue the second third of the

government waste in duplication i called for two years ago. we're going to be up to a couple hundred billion dollars a year in duplication and the inefficiencies we see all the way across the federal government. i can take $400 billion, $500 billion a year out of this government and nobody would know the difference. so the question is, is what's the game being played in washington? we're fighting over two different ways to pay for something when it's obvious we can go do the hard work and pay for it. nobody's taxes and nobody's retirement and benefits or their salaries get frozen? >> i don't understand that. >> just to be clear, are you comfortable with the idea of the payroll tax cut not being extended past the two-month period? >> am i personally? sure. >> okay. >> there you go. i like that. >> senator tom coburn. it's always great to see you. thank you for being on the show. >> all right, mika. i always pull for you against joe now. i want you to know that. >> i'm too sweet even though you

don't agree withíúk)% thank you very much. coming up, coming back from a trip to china, talking about a new online effort to showcase the effort of volunteers worldwide. plus, rick stengel reveals the latest issue of "time" magazine. "morning joe" back in a moment. bra [ male announcer ] lately, there's been a seismic shift in what passes for common sense. used to be we socked money away and expected it to grow. then the world changed... and the common sense of retirement planning became anything but common. fortunately, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life.

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it's real milk full of calcium and vitamin d. and tastes simply delicious. for those of us with lactose intolerance... lactaid® milk. the original 100% lactose-free milk. ♪ joining us now, "time" magazine's managing editor rick stengel here to reveal the latest issue of "time." good morning. what do you have for us? >> we have a little bit of a change of pace in time for valentine's day. it's sequel to a cover of last year, animal friendships. we have a yale scientist who has been studying animals and basically comes to the kind of -- something we might intuitively think is true but now there's scientific evidence that animals do have long-term

relationships with each other within the same species and that it's not just what scientists call reciprocal altruism. it's reciprocal altruism with music, it's like the human friendship. and they've observed this in some ways, not so much by the companionship of animals, by what happens in a long-term relationship one of the animals dies. and they notice that they grieve, they grieve for weeks and months at a time. >> so this is not like the divorce rate is lower among baboons lately. this is like actual nurturing relationships. >> yeah, this is like human friendships, which one of the things that, again, when scientists discovered over the last 10, 15 years, there are all kinds of benefits apart from the benefit we understand of, hey, i like you, mike, you like me. we live longer, we're healthier, tend to have more children, all of those seen within animal species too in baboons, dogs, dolphins. are they writing sonnets to the odes of their friendship?

no. >> does one species have longer relationships within their own species than other species? >> well, we do have that chart that i saw you looking at, mike, which i think some of the ape species have decade-long friendships, female ones start early and then they tend to end during the child bearing years and then when women get older, they have again long-term friendships with other females. >> mike, you satisfied? you seem fascinated by the primate divorce rate. >> it's interesting. >> it's fascinating and a follow-up to one you did last year. another interesting thing in here, the rich, the poor, and the oval office. do you have to be rich to be president is the question? >> well, you don't have to be rich to be president, but one of the things, richard thornton smith wrote the piece.

what's interesting, there's a correlation between the richer you are as president and the more you task and use pr programming against the rich. teddy roosevelt -- fdr, of course, was a common man's president. i love that story. the great story about fdr died and his funeral procession was going through, and weeping and weeping and weeping and standing next to him and said, did you know him? and the guy says no, but he knew me. what romney's trying to find is that idea. that even if you're rich, even if you have a life so different from mine, you understand me. and people felt that about fdr. even kennedy who on this chart was by far the richest president if you look at his family background in today's dollars, you know, the kennedies were billionaires, people felt like, well, he kind of gets me. and he went after the field

giants, and they felt he had credibility in doing that. even though, you know, their lives in hyannisport couldn't be more different than others. >> romney who could possibly be the wealthiest president we've had in the united states, he could actually break the mold of past presidents of wealth. you can't say mitt romney saying what franklin delano roosevelt saying -- >> no, i think there, it's about this strange kind of intangible thing of how the person communicates, right? i don't know that people care that romney has that much money. they care about whether he seems to understand them or not. >> yeah. >> norton smith has a great story in there about gerald ford, the first week that he became president, he found that and said when does my paycheck come? because i've got two kids in college and my bank account -- i don't think anyone felt that

gerald ford has any understanding of the plight of the common man. >> the second night gerald ford was president, he had tip o'neill in the house to dinner at the white house which he and betty ford and among the things talked about at the dinner table, tip o'neill related the story to me, he said, tip, do you have any idea what the boost in pay in this job is going to do for my pension? >> it's a working guy. >> yeah. yeah. >> you know, though, rick stengel, joe in washington here. i always talk about my parents and how they were very poor from the south from rome, georgia, and how they revered fdr. and there's that great story about fdr that's an extraordinarily wealthy new yorker and he died and somebody in washington was crying and they were asked, did you know fdr? and the answer allegedly was,

no, but he knew me. >> i know the story well, joe. >> yeah. >> but he -- in analyzing that. i'd be curious to see what you think about this. a lot of people think because of fdr's polio that somehow made him more like a regular guy than he would've otherwise been. do you agree with that? >> you know, i think that's part of it. but i also -- i don't think my mom and my family were looking at him because of his polio. it's because well, just starting with his inauguration saying we have nothing to fear but fear itself. and working aggressively to do something. i always had a theory in politics, nobody ever stops you when you're going 90 miles an hour. and fdr for his entire presidency was going 90 miles an hour and my family knew, other poor americans knew that their president was doing absolutely

everything in their power, including trying to pack the supreme court, you know, to try to help them. and if you make mistakes, if you make them for the right reason, i think most americans forgive you and don't care how much money you have. that's a luxury right now that mitt romney doesn't have. >> absolutely, my own family, all four of my grandparents were immigrants. they all thought fdr completely hung the moon and stars. that's why democrats kept getting reelected for about 40 years was fdr. rick stengel with a look at the new cover of "time" magazine. great to see you. up next, "vanity fair" special correspondent maureen orth. you're watching "morning joe." the employee of the month isss...

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. china is in desperate need of english teachers. they want to educate as much of their population as they can all

the way through college. we come here to teach english and also to engage in a cultural dialogue. i've been singing since third grade and sang up through college at notre dame. for me chinese is brand new. being in asia is brand new. so it is a surprise for me to bring something i've been doing and communicate with them in a language i actually do understand. >> that was a clip of a peace corps volunteer sharing his time. it's on peacecorpspostcarts.com. >> we decided for the 50th anniversary that started last year to go around the world and show peace corps volunteers in action, because they're doing

such wonderful work. so much of today is a dark picture painted of america, who are doing the best diplomacy you could possibly imagine. i went to southwestern china, 3 1/2 hours by air from beijing to the poorest province of china, where these kids are teaching english, but then they do these side projects like glee club, like shakespeare, like the prom, like cooking, whatever it is, and the chinese kids love it, because they've never met foreigners before. >> so the farthest reaches of china they're learning about the prom -- >> singing the macarena. >> top 40 music. what's the reception as an american woman? >> people are really friendly. you go to these cities that have over a million in them. you don't even know they exist. there was one peace corps

volunteers female is the only female foreigner in a city of almost a million people action and she's pretty and blond, and she gets all this attention, but these kids really live at the same level. there's no heat in the schools. they have to study and cook and do everything in their parkas during the wintertime. it was cold there, but the chinese are very have i curious about our culture and very dedicated to learning english. >> we are all as americans justifiably proud of s.e.a.l. team 6 and everything that happens around the world. >> correct. >> with regard to the american armed forces, which is a terrific thing to be proud of. >> right. >> yet wouldn't it be nice if the peace corps received equal accolades for what the peace corps does around the world? give us an update on how large the peace corps is now? where are the peace corps volunteers? what are they doing?

>> well, there are 9,000 volunteers in 70 countries right now. they're in places that they weren't in before, like the ukraine, all through eastern europe. they're in the middle east, they're in jordan. of course they're in africa and latin america, and they're doing some high-tech stuff, for example. they use apps to teach women's health in africa. it's a completely different organization. the peace corps budget, which is $375 million is less than that of military marching bands and five hours in iraq. so the point is that is exactly the reason i wanted to do the website, and we did get backing from american express and bank of america, because waging peace is really important. >> the young guy we saw in the clip from notre dame, peace

corps. how do people in this employment age, how do they get to the peace corps? >> they have to apply, and there's a waiting list, and listen, if there's one commercial i would throw out there is to have congress at least if we could -- if we could just get a few more million for the budget we could get it up to 10,000. that's our goal, but it's pretty tough. i think, you know, the peace corps used to be in iran. it used to be in afghanistan. there are people who speak the language. it's an amazing experience and you can go at any age. we have people in the peace corps that are 80 years old. >> you served in the peace corps. >> everybody i know that's served the peace corps looks as it a time that shaped their lives. >> it enriched mild lives. i have two foundations in three schools that are one laptop per child, and i have my own foundation and everything. i was able to go back to

medellin about six years ago and it's probably the thing i most care about and has been the most creative and challenging, to speak another language, to be able to just feel at home. it's just wonderful. >> maureen, thank for being here and keep up the great look. >> thank you. peacecorpspostcards.com. check it out. keep it on "morning joe."

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good morning. it's thursday, 8:00 on the east coast as you take a live look at washington, d.c. we're here today. back with us on set in washington, we have mark halperin, michael steele, and in new york willie geist and mike barnicle. first the hhs decision, tim kaine, before he decided to run for the senate, now opposing the hhs ruling. you have john larson in the democratic leadership now opposing it. this continues, the groundswell continues, and i think the white house will figure out a way to compromise with catholics in a way that puts this best hind

him, but the second part of the story, we've been focusing on president obama having a rough week this week on a bunch of issues that they would probably to be consider side issues that they never expected to come up, but the second big story is mitt romney, not the collapse -- or rick santorum, either way it's the story. >> mitt romney has had a terrible week. if you look at the editorial pages today. mark halperin was talking to me before the show, the conservatives are not panicked, but they are going after mitt romney. "wall street journal" -- conservatives don't trust mr. romney in part because he gives little reason to do so. what he needs is to make a better more positive case of his candidacy beyond his business resume, and it says you better

not resort against negative attacks against santorum. "new york post," an editorial, and read just a snippet from there. >> i closed that up. i'll find it again. >> basically the same thing. >> basically the same thing. it says our campaign is based on organization and money and we're going to destroy anybody who gets in our way. he has to have a message beyond reciting song lyrics, saying i'm a successful businessman. almost everybody says he'll eventually win this. >> but this morning he said something that he hasn't said. mark said he didn't believe it, but there is a possibility of a brokered convention, because the numbers right now, if it continues this way, i mean, he doesn't get 50%, does he? >> he's got to get close to 50%,

and if he doesn't put it away by super tuesday, if santorum and gingrich and paul are all still alive and still accumulating delegates under the rules bequeathed to us by chairman steele i think it would be hard for him to get above 45%. >> so there's a lot going on. let's let this conversation breathe, because there's several dynamics i'd like to get back to what you started with. first rick santorum spent the day sharing stories with a chapel full of pastors in texas. over 100 clergy members circled the presidential candidate and prayed for his well-being on the campaign trail. >> we thank you for the grace and goodness that motivates rick santorum to run for president and to care about this country. we thank you for the goodness and grace of the pastors and the people in this room that are motivated to seek your kingdom first. >> it's a telling image for rick

santorum. it also presents michael steele, a visual challenge for mitt romney. i'm certainly not suggesting for a second that the pastor or rick santoruming with do recall that for a ren -- i've been in a lot of groups that people pray for me and god knows i needed the prayers more than anybody else. but that still they weren't calculated about it, but that still presents mitt romney, the mormon, a challenge when this is happening in texas and you have all they super tuesday states. >> there's a lot of evangelicals that see that scene and conservative catholics that go, that guy is one of us. >> that's true, a very powerful image. in that moment for rick santorum, it's not just a spiritual upliftment, but a political one, too. but for romney the challenge remains exactly as you put it,

to come across as authentic and real. "wall street journal" is talking about it in very start terms, in other -- the question for him is how did he break through. everyone is looking for cpac today at that moment where he addresses the largest amount of conservatives they've had for a long time. will you get the traditional romney approach? we've got mechanics, we've got the policies, the positions, or will we see something more humble, authentic, more real, that lets conservatives know i'm in this fight for you and with you. that piece as long as it's missing with super tuesday coming up, actual be a long haul, brokered convention, that could be just the beginning. >> faith is playing a role and i think they're responding. here's mitt romney trying to mix his background with his mormon faith. take a look. >> in my church we don't have a

professional ministry, so people are asked to serve as the minister or pastor of their congregation from time to time, and i had that privilege i think for over ten years. in that i had the chance to work with people who lost their jobs in some cases, or facing other financial distress, losing their homes. i found those kinds of circumstances were not just about money or numbers. they were about lives and emotions. sometimes marriages suffered, so the people became clinically depressed. being out of work for a long time is a real threat and challenge to human happiness. and i feel this president has let us down. >> mike, the tone is just remarkably different than what we have seen in the past where he's obviously reading teleprompters, singing "god bless america." the story about his dad that mocked yesterday, that people don't understand that's what he

needs to do, he needs to reveal more about himself and stop read ing pollsters lines, and then that story about being with people who were distressed for economic reasons, seems to me that's a tack that may connect. >> apparently he's stumbling into dealing with both of them. one -- he as got to humanize himself. the other thing he and his campaign have to deal with, and i think perhaps they're trying to deal with it, for months they have tried to not make big pronouncements on how conservative he really would be as president of the united states. feeling they could tack back to the middle more in the fall

campaign but he now has to late out, it appears, his conservative principles, what he will actually doing. he's got to be much more specific because of the rise of the challenge that santorum and orders have presented quite recently on the right. >> no doubt about it. of course, that's the romney story going on. it's a huge story, but also, of course, president obama is facing his challenges this week with his own party. >> i think the speeches are reflecting that and responding to it. the other big story a number of democrats this morning, including john larson and former dnc chair tim kaine now joining catholic leaders in calling on the white house to modify a policy require faith-based groups to require employers to offer fwirt control through their health care providers.

the controversy is spilling over into congress where john boehner is promising to lead an effort to overturn the rule. >> the federal government has drifted dangerously beyond its constitutional boundaries encroaching on religious freedom in a manner that

>> this is i think ironic that mitt romney is expressing -- criticizing the president for pursuing a policy that's virtually identical to the one that was in place when he was governor of massachusetts. >> well, you know, mr. karney needs to check his history. that is, that provision was put in massachusetts before i was governor, and then when i was governor i tried to have it removed in our health care plan, so in working on our health care plan, i worked hard to get them to remove all of the mandated coverages. that was a provision that got there before i did and one that i fought to remove. >> you know, mika, obviously there were also reports that joe biden a practicing catholic, a guy that takes his faith very seriously had --

>> tried to warn them. >> tried to warn them what would happen, but they didn't listen to him. >> so a couple things, sam stein, help me out -- >> jay carney pushed back on that. >> but didn't offer any details to why they were upset, just the reports are erroneous. you get the sense they were probably more accurate than he led on. >> and there's problem with the messaging here, and some people think i need to be educated on this, so i thought i would ask you, sam. >> don't say -- >> first of all, you talk about compromise that -- the white house were always looking for compromise. there was a period of one to two years, they're not looking to force this down the throat of the catholic church in two years. that is a misconstrued rendition of what's happened. that's being edited by the right by speaker boehner, calling it an attack by the federal government -- >> should we call tim kaine and let him know that, and john

larson and these democrats that are concerned about it? should we tell them they're wrong, senator manchin -- this isn't the republican party. this isn't some right-wing jihad against the white house. >> my question, sam, is -- and michael, actually, both of you, all of you, but weren't policies like this in place during the bush administration for religious institutions and catholic institutions? i didn't see republicans shocked and appalled at the attack by the federal government. is this like the debt and spending, where it's only bad when they're not the ones doing it or thee not the ones in power? >> it was in place in certain states, by not by the bush administration itself. >> they should have been fighting it, because it was so shocking, such an attack. this should have been a war. >> i think the problem here is not -- i might be wrong.

i'm jewish, not a catholic. i think the problem here is not the contraception issue, which polls very well. even catholics are fine with it. the problem i think people have with it is the federal government saying to catholic hospitals and universities that you will have to -- as part of the health care plans you offer your employees, it will have to include this if you ask that question, they're not upset with it, but as ideological position, with the federal government telling you to do something, that is a problem. i think this is also why mitt romney is having a difficult week. it dovetails into two issues. he's not comfortable talking about religion as rick santorum, and in massachusetts when he was governor, he did not, as you say, object wildly to this issue like he is now. i think it's perfectly reasonable for you to point out

all these voices, who are incredibly loud -- >> where were they? >> where were they -- >> where was tim kaine and john larson? >> i would call the campaigns to get some clarification, and they say we're not opposed to making sure that people have contraception, in fact we want everyone to have access without co-pays. what we want is to expand the religious exemption, so beyond churches and universities to other institutions. i think that's a perfectly reasonable point to have, but what they're not saying is they're not in disagreement with the health care approach. >> the goal. >> yes. >> this was ham fisted, david axelrod made news when he came on our show and said they're willing toe compromise. >> that's the end game. they'll figure out some sort of way to put a bow on it and say we're getting these exemptions expanded. >> and willie, a warning to the left who want to make it about contraception. if they want to make it about

contraception, then they don't understand what the controversy is about, baud, you know i don't think most americans have problems with contraception. it's the federal government telling a church -- mandating what a church must do with their organizations. a personal example for my church, i'm southern baptist, they usually don't let women be deacons. i think that's sort of a bad idea. i think women should be deacons as well as men. that's my personal belief. buff if the federal government -- if the justice department offers a mandate ordering southern baptists to make women deacons, i would be the first to say get the le out of our business. >> this is not a parallel. >> it is a parallel, too. >> why don't you make it like jehovah's witnesses and blood transfusions. >> you're trying to make it about med sin, one particular

thing. i'm saying the crux of this is a first amendment issue, where the federal government is stepping in and telling a religious institution what to do. willie? >> well, joe, you've put your fin you are on why this is a great issue for republicans, but if you listen to what john cornyn said yesterday, this higharthritis the disconnect between president obama and his concept about the role of the federal government and its intrusiveness into people's lives. so republicans, conservatives cuss take this issue and make a broader point about the way president obama has wanted to take over the health care in their view and push his values on people who don't share them. we also talked the other today about how this could hurt the president political. bob casey, democratic senator, a week ago on friday, before this even exploded, rushed out a statement saying the president of the united states needs to reverse this. this is a democrat in pennsylvania, in a state

obviously the president needs to win. this is a problem for him in places like pennsylvania. coming up next, senator jim demint of south carolina joins us. also the keynote speaker for tonight's cpac conference, representative paul ryan. i like him. here's todd with a check on the forecast. >> for the most part a beautiful day across the northeast, a little cool, but we had some snowflakes that didn't amount to too much except for maybe a few slick spots. back into new jersey at least that three-hour loop shows it move well over the coastline, still some areas in the 20s through western pennsylvania, certainly be careful out on the roads. in the skies you're not seeing much of an issue. on the radar a few little blips, the one heading into texas, maybe about an inch of snow for amarillo. the cold air is locked in on the canadian border, that may even

bring a chance for snow showers and lake-effect snow. more "morning joe" is coming your way next. ♪ yo

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we spent too much, borrowed too much, earmarked too much. i'm tracking about question in the general sense, because we're talking about folks that were in washington. newt gingrich and rick santorum,

this is one of the reasons the tea party grew up, of course, is people were unhappy about incumbents, people who had spent their careers in washington borrowing, spending and earmarking. they said, look, we want to throw the guys out and bring in new faces. in this race i'm the only guy that hasn't spend time in washington, and senator santorum and speaker gingrich they are the very republicans who acted like democrat it is, and when republicans act like democrats they lose. in newt gingrich's case, he had to resign. in rick santorum's case, he lost by the biggest margin of any senate incumbent since 1980. we're live in washington. joining us from cpac in washington is republican senator from south carolina, senator jim demint. it's good to have you on the show this morning. >> it's good to be with you. >> you're going to be speaking this morning, and expected to

talk about true conservatives, genuine republicans. of all the candidates, who's the most genuine republican? >> i think they're all good republicans. the clip you played with mitt romney i think is spot on. i think most candidates have come around to this kind of view. our country is in trouble. when you have 535 congress men and senators who think they should take home the bacon, you get $15 trillion in debt. that's how we ended up where we are. >> jim, it's fascinating, what you -- your argument is this -- that it doesn't matter who we elect as president if we don't have a conservative majority in the senate. of course, you and i have talked about this a lot before. we had a republican president for eight years, and we took $155ably onsurplus and turned it

into a trillion dollar deficit. how important is it for conservatives to elect conservative senators? >> well, the senate has been the black hole of good policy since i've been in the house, and right now it doesn't matter if you get republicans if they're big spenting republicans. some of them want to return to the era of earmarking right now. we need a conservative majority in the senate. i think we can work with the next president, whether it's any of the four running right now, they'll sign the legislation, but people need to remember that the legislation, the budgets, everything comes out of congress. the president doesn't write legislation. >> a number of republicans are weighing in on the race for the nomination. they're really turning up the heed on mitt romney. senator jon kuehl sell this,

there's not exactly romney maddia right by the way you talk about them, by what you choose to talk about. i think to some extent mitt could do alternates better job responding to that political fact. second, he has stepped on his message so many times, and then wisconsin senator ron johnson says this, quote -- governor romney should be a little concerned. tuesday's results definitely confirmed that. then senator john boozeman, who i think tuesday night any impartial observer would agree that that showed a weakness and he's going to have to work hard to pull things together. should i go on? >> no, we can read through all -- jim dement, "wall street journal" says this morning conservatives don't trust mr. romney in part because he gives them little reason to do so. is that a fair critique of the front-runner right now?

>> i don't necessarily think so. i think what you're seeing is republicans are having trouble deciding between the candidates, and there's really a thin difference between them. south carolina was one story, florida another, the midwest we saw a completely different outcome. i think that shows us that -- the race is very close. i think that's good for our party right now, because all of them are trying to find out where republicans are, where conservatives are, and they're all becoming better candidates, i think. >> senator, mark halperin here, i know i've been asked this before. you were for mitt romney four years ago. why aren't you for him right now? >> well, that was a completely different race. i still think he was the best candidate four years ago. we have ditch people in the race. i still think a lot of him, but i think rick santorum is a great guy, strong character, tenacious fighter. that's really what people are

looking for right now. if we ignore ron paul, we're missing a big part of what the republican message needs to be constitutionally limited government, individual liberty, and newt is the one with the ideas. if we could pull all four together we have a great package, and i hope our eventual nominee will recognize there's a reason all four of these candidates have a lot of supporters. >> which republican do we want to go to? sam stein, good old-fashioned ma marxist conservative -- i'm joking. >> a prolonged -- is that a real concern or are we in the age of super pacs where money isn't a problem anymore?

our candidates when we started, i think the perception was they were weak. now i think you're seeing them get stronger -- >> that's not true for mitt romney, senator, his numbers have actual le gotten weaker. are you worried he's getting too beat up by this process? >> well, if he does, it's really small compared to what he would get in the fall from barack obama. we need to go through this, he needs to know how to defend capitalism. i think he found his -- >> yeah, that would be good. he found his plat much in florida. then he seemed to -- i don't know what's going to happen in the next races, but this is a

positive thing. it keeps the focus on republican message, and that's what we need to do all the our convention. >> senator, good to see you again, michael steele here. i want to pick up on the point you just made. if this is so good for our party and all this works for the benefit of making our eventual nominee stronger, and i would agree with all of that, why then are so many of the establishment types from the gop media to the politicians clamoring still for some white night on a shining horse to save the day? do you think it's still helpful? >> i don't think that's realistic, though this is a very different year, very possibly we can't get to the convention without a nominee, but i -- i can't imagine us nominating someone who haven't gone through this vetting process unless they

all end up just stepping on their own message. i think we have some good candidates in this mix, and as one of the them emerges, they need to reach back and grab the supporters of the other ones to seal the deal. we need to go through it. >> senator jim demint, i'm sure a riotous crowd. they're going to go crazy for jim demint, a real hero for the conservative movement. thank you for being with us. >> thank you joe and crew. thanks a lot. congressman paul ryan is coming up. he will be delivering the keynote speech tonight at c pack. we're back in just a minute. [ male announcer ] you love the taste of 2% milk.

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i don't have a -- well, i don't have an opinion to express on how the senate does its business with regard to this issue. the fact is because of the negotiations over the debt ceiling that resulted in a budget control act, we have an unusual situation here, in that

the top lines for the budget going forward have already been set and agreed too by republicans ands alike. >> reporter: i'm not actually asking your opinion, but the white house's opinion? >> well i don't have a -- >> the white house has no opinion about whether or not the senate should pass a budget? the president will push one, it is fed chair says not having one is bad for growth -- >> i have no pin, the white house has no opinion on chairman bernan bernanke's assessment on how the senate should do its business. >> sam stein, no opinion on whether the senate after 1,000 days should pass a budget. >> it's funnily, obviously they would lufz nothing more than the republicans to introduce a budget so they could just kill them. >> over 1,000 days. >> i'm less concerned about that than the hypocrisy of them loving the idea of paul ryan reintroducing his budget and then making it an election

issue. >> do you have a question about the media -- >> the media? i'm not speaking for the media. i'mi i just pointed out an incredible. >> does it get more coverage? >> i think it gets a fair amount. it's always talked about. >> by republicans. >> who's talking about it? >> we're talking about it now. >> seriously, mark halperin, what would the "new york times" editorial page say about a senate who didn't produce a budget in over 1,000 days. >> i think it would be creamed. the conventional wisdom is nothing will happen this year. this is a quarter of the president's first term and maybe only term in office. he's going to put out a budget, the house will do a budget, and there's almost no discussion of it. a budget with huge implications for federal policy and fighting for debt reduction, incredible. >> here with us, republican

representative from wisconsin, congressman paul ryan. paul, it's good to see you. >> good morning. >> how are you doing, mika. >> you're speaking tonight at cpac, so i'll turn it over to the guy who will introduce you. >> last year you get absolutely slaughtered by the democrats and by newt gingrich, who called you a right-wing radical social engineer. do you so any hoping they'll follow your lead? >> you heard him yourself harry reid said he wasn't going to do a budget again. i can just only hope we'll have the same kind of deference from the white house when we propose our budget. i'm sure they'll say we just want to get involved. i'm sure we'll expect the same deference, don't you think? >> probably not. >> probably not. >> asking a lot of -- about the

"wall street journal" editorial saying the conservatives don't trust mr. romney in part because he gives little reason to do so. john from "new york post" also said almost the same identical thing, we're hearing this more and more. do you have concerns about mitt romney giving or experiences over the years in the bush administration about a republican president that allowed the deficit to explode wildly. >> i don't worry about, but as an insurance policy and what i'll be saying is we need to run on a very specific bold agenda and have been an affirming election. if we just run against barack obama on the economy and how much we don't like him and his policies, that's not enough. we can't afford to win by default. if you win by default, you have no mandate to actually fix the country's problems. we need an affirming election, and i would say we have a moral

obligation to the american people, if we don't like the direction the president is taking the country, which we don't, we have the obligation to offer an alternative to specify how to fix the country's biggest problems, which by the way, is a debt crisis on our horizon, so that we give the country a clear legitimate choice. if we win that kind of election, then we have a mandate and moral authority to fix these problems. if we do that all together as congress and our nominee, then i think we're going to be fine. that doesn't bother me what the nominee is saying now or this candidate or that candidate is saying, as long as we're giving the country a clear choice, specific bold ideas and we have a choice, i think we'll by fine and will get america out of the ditch it's in. >> then, congressman ryan, if you think the president is not doing it's job, how does congress do its job with its approve ratings. look at the gallup numbers --

>> i'll bet they're bad. >> it's pretty bad. it's not even pretty. >> 10% approve, 86% disapprove. >> mika, i think this is part of the president's strategy. we're offering all these offsets to cut spending, they're bakley trying to make congress dysfunctional. you have the senate doing absolutely nothing, no budget for three years, no priorities, no restrains straits. so the president will try to blame somebody else. it would be it's not my fault sin of strategy. i don't think that's going to work, and yes we realize we will not be passing laws, but we can't get anything through the senate and the president won't sign it if we did, so we want to define ourselves with actions, propose bold solution to the country's problems and go to the country with those solutions. at the end of the day if we do

that, give the country a clear choice, then at least we will have done or job, and let them decide what they want their country to be in the 21st century. quite frankly it's a function of math. the decisions we make in the next few years will really determine the kind of country we'll be. will we be the opportunity society with a safety net to help people get back on their feet or a european debt crisis laden cradle to grave social welfare state? i think that's the fork of the road we're at right now, and we owe it to the country to show them how we will change that trajectory. >> michael steele. >> how are you, congressman? >> great to see you. >> i've been a big paul ryan budget guy. i love everything you're saying, but i want to bring you closer to the here and now on this two-month extension of the payroll tax. we were on the wrong side of

raising taxes or not raising taxes. what you're talking about now, starting with your krmtpac speech tonight, are you looking to shift the discussions with respect to taxes and budgeting, and those types of issues? do you see this as a pivotal moment when you can change the dynamic of the conversation and turn that into dealing with a short-term solution, which is knolls solution at all? >> right. so these short-term skirmishing, i think is what they would love to have us embroiled in all the time. we're in budget season. we have a law that says you have to pass a budget by april 15th in congress. we're going to follow that law. we're ghg to contrast. so we can get beyond what i call these short-term skirmishes. you've got to remember this funds social security, so if u

you -- to pay for in my opinion, otherwise you're accelerating the bankruptcy of social security. so the issues are not without cost, without peril, and we've got to get that right, but let's talk about the big picture and big solutions. america deserves that kind of choice. >> sam, i saw you smiling during michael's question. are you suggesting there may have been a leading question? >> slightly. i don't know. >> there are people on the upper west side -- >> i don't want to give myself -- >> there are people breaking out in hives. thank you so much. >> have fun tonight. we'll see you there. >> thanks, we'll see you around. up next, the comment that as governor chris christie calling for the head of the largest teachers' union to resign. we're back with that in a moment.

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time no business before the bell. we are following some breaking news. the prime minister's office in greece says a deal has been struck with coalition parties on new austerity measures needed to secure a bailout. some political leaders however have pushed back against demands to make $4 million in pension cuts to receive the bailout from the other 17 euro countries. unemployment at greece is at a record 21% and the economy is mired in the fifth year of recession. then there's this new jersey govern ovr chris christie is calling for the resignation of the executive director of the

state's largest teachers union. >> that's a surprise. really? >> just listen to the comments made in new jersey on public testify when giordano discussed education and the poor. >> people who are well off have options. somebody who is not well off and whose child is in a failing school, why shouldn't that person, those parents have the same options to be able to get the kid out of a failing school and into one that works with the help of the state? >> those parents should have exactly the same options. they do. we don't say you can't take your kid out of the public school. we would argue not and say let's work more closely -- >> they can't afford it. you know that. some can't -- >> life is not always fair and i'm sorry about that. >> this is the message from the leader from the teachers' union. life isn't fair. an outrageous statement. i cannot express how disgusted i

am by that statement by the head of the largest teach eers' unio in our state, but i have to tell you i'm not the least surprised. it so succinctly captures what their real position is. not the position they put on the slick 30-second ads when they say every child should have a great education. well, they mean every child except for the ones in the failing school districts that shouldn't have a choice. >> all right. here to defend the new jersey teachers' union position, sam stein. >> i don't understand why you come to me. these other -- >> no -- >> it's a dumb statement. it's not outrageous. it's dumb, he shouldn't have said it. the majority of teachers obviously care about the welfare of the kids, they want them to do well and i would argue the majority of the union does, too. it's a dumb statement. he shouldn't have said it.

>> thank you, sam. good job. >> appreciate it. i'm al ways looking out for i'm al small ways to be more healthy. like splenda® essentials™ no calorie sweeteners. this bowl of strawberries is loaded with vitamin c. and now, b vitamins to boot. coffee doesn't have fiber. unless you want it to. splenda® essentials™ are the first and only line of sweeteners with a small boost of fiber, or antioxidants, or b vitamins in every packet. mmm. same great taste with an added "way to go, me" feeling. splenda® essentials™. get more out of what you put in.

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add guard number 11, he once ate 20 hot dogs in an hour, ronny brewer. his favorite movie is the notebook, derek rose. >> you couldn't see him there. that was will ferrell last night in new orleans doing the starting lineups. sounds like you. 20 hot dogs in an hour. bass dancer, lives with miss mother. >> and "the notebook" is my favorite movie. we'll be right back to tell you what we learned today. [ man ] i've been out there most of my life. you name it...i've hooked it. but there's one... one that's always eluded me. thought i had it in the blizzard of '93. ha! never even came close. sometimes, i actually think it's mocking me. [ engine revs ] what?! quattro!!!!! ♪

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the diamond store. welcome back to "morning joe." what did you learn today? >> brad spring of eric cantor's office is a discerning viewer of morning television. that's it. >> he knows what he likes. >> i'm going to get hives today. that's okay, though. >> from what? >> we're going to cpac. >> listen to that. >> my mom taught me about women's health issues and may be applicable to -- >> i learned today the social issues while dormant are coming back and could have an impact. >> willie, what did you learn today? >> i can attest firsthand the best way to health education, especially in new york city is go see jay-z