cpac today. we have to clean something up on our date in history, we said apparently on the graphic that mike tyson was convicted on february it seems unlikely, in fact, one of you writes on this date in history, february 9th, 1965, he thinks there was a typo, another person says talk about juvenile delinquency, mike tyson, of course, convicted in 1992, our apologies. "morning joe" begins right now. . unlike any leader in modern american history, we are led today by a president that has decided to pit americans against each other. the basic argument that he's making to our nation is that the reason why some of us are worse off than we used to be is because other people are doing too well. that the only way for some of us to do better is for other people to do worse.

this election cannot just be a referendum on president obama's failed leadership. americans deserve a choice. a choice between two dramatically different visions for our country's future. as conservatives, we owe americans that choice. >> hey, good morning, it's friday, february 10th. some shots from cpac, that was paul ryan last night. that was great to see him. i caught up with him. i introduced paul. and of course, the guys loved, loved by the republican base there. with us onset, political writer for the "huffington post" sam stein who is going to tell us about speed dating at cpac. and former chairman of the republican national committee michael steele. msnbc and "time" magazine

political analyst mark haleprin. and in new york, willie geist, an msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. so you guys were all at cpac yesterday. and sam, you actually said you were ready to contribute to a certain candidate. >> yeah, joe the plumber. he won a huge endorsement yesterday, herman cain got up, gave a rousing speech said joe the plumber's -- >> joe the plumber. >> it's that simple. >> but you say, though, herman cain was a rock star. >> he's made for these moments. the only thing i found kind of interesting was herman cain obviously has endorsed newt gingrich. he never mentioned newt's name once. he gave a good endorsement for joe the plumber. herman was made for those moments, the crowd loved it. he started with a classic teleprompter joke, those never get old, apparently. beyond that -- >> well, and i'll tell you, if you look at the front page of the "washington post," you talked about newt gingrich. here's some shots from cpac, and the headline, "romney stuck in

lukewarm advisers fear." and mark haleprin, you say that is the big story coming out of cpac. and at the end of the night when i was bidding adieu to everybody saying good night. i said, hey, tomorrow, big day for cpac, mitt romney's going to speak and newt gingrich. nothing, nothing. and rick santorum, and the cheers erupted. there's a new ppp poll that's going to be coming out nationally, but last night the tweet came out saying it's pretty clear from the first day in the field the new front-runner's rick santorum. >> there's -- if you've never been to partisan judgment. >> boy, a lot of young -- >> always a lot of young. >> and when i introduced paul ryan, you say it's not a partisan judgment. the biggest line that i got in my introduction was when i said,

basically said paul and i have learned one thing over the past 20 years since we first met each other and that is that big-government republicanism is just as bad for america as big-government liberalism, big cheer. i mean, it is not partisan. you talk to those people. they don't trust republicans any more than they trust democrats. >> the left needs an event like this. it truly energizes the republican party. this is a big day because santorum comes in with momentum. and if you just said the cpac crowd is going to hear speeches from santorum, gingrich, and romney. santorum clearly is the best player for them in terms of his presentation and his issues. i think he'll come in today and do a great job. gingrich has always done well at this event. they usually play "eye of the tiger" when he walks in. santorum definitely, gingrich, maybe, romney is the big question. not a great group for him over the years. he needs to come in and have a great day. not just because the activists in the room, but the echo effect

around the country and the national media. >> a the lot of skepticism for gingrich in that room. it seems to be gingrich's kind of event. he's been there so many times. i'll tell you, a lot of skepticism as said yesterday on the show. when i said mitt romney has a lot to prove. he politely said not as much as newt. why is that? >> well, i think because, you know, some of the skin has come off his hyde over the last few months. they're not happy, you know, all of that. so i think for him, you're right, he's got to come in and lay down that eye of the tiger for them and show them that he's still got that fight and he's the guy to go forward. but i really think to your point, this is santorum's moment. they've got the poll that will be coming out, the straw poll that will be coming up tomorrow. >> right. >> it'll be a chance for him to galvanize this core constituency right before that. but there's -- there's not a bigger weight than the one on mitt romney right now.

four years ago, he came there -- >> he was a hero. >> he rocked the house when he stepped down. now the question is, can he rock the house today and step up? >> but you know, we were talking, though, and it is amazing. and there were other people scratching their heads about this last night. four years ago, sam stein, you were still in junior high school. >> not even. >> but, four years ago mitt romney comes into cpac, and i remember it very well. everybody was waiting. he was the one that was going to sleigh the dragon of john mccain and rudy giuliani. he was a conservative's best hope. we heafrd the story, i think you told me this story yesterday, after he drops out -- >> i told you that. >> i was in junior high school, but i happened to be there. >> you happened to be there. >> greatest field trip ever. and i'll tell you, that's another shocking thing about cpac every year, just how young they are. problem average age 24, 25.

>> they are young, idealistic, and they are knowledgeable. >> your point is right, four years ago -- >> bay buchanan was crying when romney stepped out of the race, conservatives were shocked. and now he comes back, my gosh. >> it's an amazing transformation in that short period of time. and even more amazing transformation is how gingrich and santorum have flipped. what was it? two weeks ago we were talking about if only rick santorum would get out of the race, newt gingrich would be elevated to romney. that same ppp poll you cited, they said on a tweet last night. if you took gingrich out of the race, romney would be an intense, incredible trouble in this race. santorum's person in the hall confirmed to me they've raised over $2.1 million, maybe $2.2 million since the big three wins this week. they are riding a wave here. and i think there's a lot of pressure on santorum today. i know you think he's going to step up to it. but if he falls flat a little

bit, that would let the wind out of the sails in a way i don't think is comfortable for his campaign. >> i think for rick over the past year and a half, mark haleprin, and you followed him a good bit speaking to crowds of 14 and 15 and donut shops in western iowa, to step into cpac, to have a hero's welcome, freeze was there last night, he's energi energized, ready to write more checks. i'll tell you what, i think rick is going to find this crowd to his liking. >> he had huge crowds in oklahoma over the last couple of days. i'll tell you there's a difference, probably, between gingrich and santorum. romney's coming off santorum now, the super pac hasn't given up with tv ads yet. he handles when people come after him much better than gingrich has so far. he is, in the senate, in pennsylvania politics, he's a cool customer when it comes to stuff. he doesn't have the infrastructure or the opposition research and the massive number of surrogates to defend him, but

he will not be intimidated or rattled. >> let's go to some clips and, of course, today, presidential hopefuls mitt romney and rick santorum and newt gingrich as we just said are going to be on the stage at cpac in a few hours all vying for the support of the conservative base. but yesterday, kentucky senator rand paul focused on the upcoming election. >> this election may be the last best hope of saving the american dream. who will be that next ronald reagan? who will be our heroes? who will become the next generation of the great leaders? the republican party's an empty vessel unless we view it with values. we have to believe in something. >> if it's halftime in america, i'm fearful of what the final score's going to be if we let this president start the second half as the quarterback. >> i thought you would be interested in knowing that running for president of the united states is really one

series of humiliations after another. but it's also a very educational experience. and i learned three things when i was running for president. first of all, i learned where john wayne was born. that's very important. and then second, i learned the day that elvis presley was born. these are vital issues to our republic. and third i learned, never forget the three things that you learned. very important when you're running for president. >> you were talking about yesterday how good she was. >> she was so funny. >> the reviews for michele bachmann were all positive. >> oh, yeah. she was loose, she was funny. obviously you can't act like that when you're on the presidential campaign, but it showed a different side of her than i think a lot of people actually know of. she even did an interview with the "huffington post" after the fact which i thought was amazing. >> that is amazing. i don't know why anybody would

do that. >> she thought it was -- >> i wish i had a good comeback. >> you have no good comeback. so we'll see what happens. what are the romney people telling you, though? >> he met yesterday with some religious and conservative leaders. and he also raised a lot of money, and those are the two sort of projects going forward. have the infrastructure, which has been their big talking point, bigger than anybody, we're the only ones that can afford to go all the way to the convention, but also he needs a message. he's talking about a huge economic speech in the next few weeks before michigan and arizona. and they recognize the stakes in those primaries. those primaries are huge. and although they're a few weeks out. >> why are they huge? >> i think romney has to win them both or he will not secure this nomination. >> if he loses again, it's -- that's home field advantage. >> it's a great state for rick santorum. >> why is that? >> the make-up of the electorate fits in with blue collar message and conservative message.

pennsylvania and michigan, similarly demographically. romney, i don't think he has a hold on that state. the romney formula from florida, spend a lot of money on negative ads against your component. if santorum competes there, that'll be an issue. santorum and gingrich haven't really shown their hands. they're going to compete there probably because they'll want to pick up some delegates and maybe beat romney. arizona's winner take all. does anybody try to beat romney in arizona? >> one thing i'm trying to hear from romney people are sincere concerns about the money they're going to spend on this primary. they had this perception they could spend a little bit but save up for the general election. now you're getting a sense that they're worried about the resources that are going to come with defeating. whether it's gingrich, santorum, or all of them as they go to the convention. >> mitt romney's saying he's not threatened by rick santorum's rise this week, but judging by the new level of attacks you're getting out of the romney campaign, he's certainly at

least, at least paying attention. >> well, i think you've seen rick santorum get his opportunity now to be, you know, one of the leading contenders. hep hasn't been as visible in the sweepstakes so far, but he certainly is now. and that means that he'll be under the microscope like all the rest of us have been. and obviously some of the things in his record are troubling. the fact that he voted five times to raise the debt ceiling without getting compensating reductions in federal spending, that's a problem. the fact while he was in washington, government spending grew by 80%, and the fact he's a defender of earmarks. i'm in favor of a ban on earmarks. i think spending in washington is out of control, and i wouldn't raise the debt ceiling without getting compensating reductions in federal spending. >> all right. so willie geist, it begins. i think we're going to start seeing a one-on-one showdown between mitt romney and rick santorum, especially with the polls breaking in santorum's direction. might get ugly quickly. >> and that's why i think today

is so interesting. mike and i didn't make it down for cpac, we did go to the satellite event on the upper midwest. a gathering of all of the conservatives up there on the upper west side. >> yep. >> it was interesting reading some of the tweets and reports that came out of there. erick erickson said it was the least excited he's seen cpac on a day one ever. and he said just straw polling, the energy is behind rick santorum. he said even in the green room, romney supporters are not supporting mitt romney in this event. it'd be interesting to see how mitt romney's able to express his conservatism. i think rush limbaugh said it best a couple of days ago when he said when rick santorum speaks like a conservative, it comes naturally to him. when mitt romney does, it feels like he's putting on an act. it'll be interesting to watch today. >> willie and i are also in need of some insight from you and the panel down there in washington. and it was provoked again by the clip we just showed of rick santorum's entrance yesterday, i guess into the hall of the cpac

convention, and you've alluded to it several times in the conversation thus far. the fact that we're told by you and others that the demographic at this convention is quite young. so my question to you, begging some insight to you is why do we think -- why are we under the impression that most conservatives that go to these conventions are get off my lawn 65-year-old guys? why don't we get any attention paid to the fact that apparently it's a quite young demographic there? >> well, you know, it is a very young demographic. you look at the pictures on the front of the "washington post," look at all of them. and it is -- it's cpac this year especially. but it's usually thousands of young conservatives from across the country that come here and then fan out and support the candidate of their choice. >> i said before, the left would be smart to have an event like this. it's young, idealistic, well-informed people from all

over the country who come to socialize, some, and to network and listen to the speeches. and the audience reaction is an extraordinary thing to watch. it's the best focus group of the conservative movement any of us could ever have to see what kind of lines get a good response. and young voters are, you know, a huge part of republicans' chance to win this year is if they can -- >> i think the young voters actually play to santorum. they are operating on the idea that for many, many cycles, the party has been told to go with someone who is more moderate, who can win, and now again it's once again mitt romney, and i think they among -- of all people are saying, you know, let's try something different this time. i think it works to his favor. >> not impressed by bundlers. >> so michael, is everybody overplaying it? romney stuck in lukewarm, advisers feel, and new polls coming out. is everybody overplaying their last hand? or are they just, you know, like the generals fighting the last war? or do you agree as guy who knows his party well because you ran

it for so long, is mitt romney in trouble? >> yeah, i think he is. and i think he has been for some time. and you know, joe, you and i have sat at this table and others and we've had the same conversation, and here we are still having it about, gee, what does he do to get the conservatives behind him? and, you know, that's only something he can solve at this point. we can talk about it all day long and blog about it, but it's going to be mitt romney in the well of that hall talking to those young conservatives and rallying them around him. if he can't do it, watch out, santorum's on the loose. >> all right. well, i am sure right now they are carving up red meat to throw out into the crowd. we'll see if they take it or throw it back on the stage. coming up, we're going to be bringing in chris matthews, also eugene robinson, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory, and up next, jim vandehei is here with the politico playbook. we're going to have willie's

"week in review," as well. this show is absolutely packed. speed dating with sam stein, and also -- secretary of housing is going to be coming in on a pretty darn big deal not about -- the mortgage settlement with the five big banks. but first, here's todd santos with a check on the weekend forecast. >> not so bad to start off the weekend for a few areas if you consider friday your weekend. friday afternoon, boston, new york, towards philly, snow showers going early saturday morning. and that could amount to something. new york city around 1 to 3 inches, boston around 2 to 4. that activity right now is still to the west of the mississippi river. you do notice a few snow showers to the northwest, great lakes, getting down into chicago with a quick 1 to 3 inches later this afternoon especially as the lakes get involved. northwest indiana could see a little bit more than that especially as we set up some of those lake bands. beyond that, i want to show the satellite radar, the satellite showing nice breaks in the

clouds from new york down towards d.c. so a beautiful start to the day, a little bit cool out there, especially with some temperatures in the 30s. that's a look at time square. we'll be back with more "morning joe." i love that my daughter's part fish. but when she got asthma, all i could do was worry !

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hey, let's take a look at the morning papers. and we start with the boston globe. the globe says ten states including massachusetts have been granted waivers from the federal no child left behind act giving them flexibility on how schools teach and evaluate students. some 28 other states are filling out applications for the waiver program. so far only new mexico's application has been rejected. "atlanta general constitution" for the first time in three decades federal regulators have approved licenses for two nuclear power plants. the atlanta based southern

company will operate the plants near augusta. they're expected to be online by 2016. and it's the first approval of a new plant since the meltdown at three mile island in pennsylvania in 1979. >> boy, that is a big step by the southern company in company that i don't know we should've done in 1980. in the parade of papers, the science of love, what science can teach us about romance and how to make it last. but if you don't want to make it last, if you want it to go fast, talk to sam stein of the "huffington post." he was yesterday, for a lot of reasons, but you were at cpac yesterday and went to an interesting seminar. >> sometimes when you report, you have to go into, you know, war zones -- >> dive right in. >> exactly. and there was a, you know, i wasn't the only journalist, there was about 50 or so who went to the singles conservatives dating seminar.

it was a pick-up artistry, so to speak. the teacher was the main rival of this guy mystery -- this teacher's name was the juggler or the libertarian hitch. i have a bunch of lessons to know. >> what is the main lesson? >> there's like, you know, it's not so much as a lesson as a life. you want to be able to be talkative, talk to people around you. >> okay. i'm bored already. the politico playbook's executive editor jim vandehei. jim? >> let's crack open the politico playbook, jim. what are you looking at today? >> one, this "post" story is pretty fascinating on spencer bachus, the chairman of the financial services committee now under investigation, it's clear from this outside ethics panel for insider trading. >> they had a big vote on insider trading, right? >> a big vote. everybody's against it now. before everyone kind of liked it. >> yeah. >> it stems from this "60

minutes" report a couple of months ago that was a fabulous piece based on a book, but it's clear that spencer bachus was insider trading in every single assistance whether it's transportation on the transportation committee or overseeing financial institutions. as you well noknow, i'm a cynic and this committee will have to have the ethics committee investigate, which will probably do nothing. by the time they do anything, he'll have done well on his investments. >> what are you looking at today? >> i think this fight in the white house with how they've dealt with this contraception battle is fascinating. there's a great piece in our publication today with tons of detail about the internal debate where he basically had this group of men against a group of women inside the white house about how to handle this. and they thought that obama at one point whether it was biden or the archbishop in new york thought that basically that obama would come down on their side and he didn't, and it's

been a pr real debacle for them in that they're trying to figure out, do they please women's groups inside the party? or do they please catholics who are advocated internally by biden and others. and the catholic church is organized and wanted this fight. there's a good piece actually in the "new york times" on this. they've been ready for eight months for this fight. they've been very organized, able to get democratic politicians to turn on obama over it. he's in a real box and there's not to me an obvious solution. >> so biden was on the radio yesterday. and basically said everybody needs to relax, we've got a year to figure this out, we're going to figure it out. don't you think at the end of the day, certainly david axelrod has to be looking at the catholic votes and saying we've got to do something to at least get the catholics off our backs. >> well, just look at the democrats. there's not a ton of democrats that have spoken out against it, but look at where they are, missouri, pennsylvania, in these states where there are big catholic populations. this is a big issue.

a lot of catholics might not believe you have to use contraception all the time, but they hate that the government's telling their organization what to do. and conservatives have jumped on it, the catholic church has jumped on. there's a lot of democrats who have jumped on it. and even if they find a compromise and there probably is a compromise in the language and figuring out how you give exemptions to the rule, i think the damage is already done. it already emphasizes in the mind of a lot of skeptics. >> you brought up an interesting point, actually, which is that the catholic church is, you know, it's obviously religious, but has a political apparatus to it. and it was incredibly organized. and they are incredibly influential not only in the halls of congress, politics, but in the communities, as well. therest no equivalency on the other side of this debate. you can't all of a sudden organize all these women who might be affected by this decision and say, hey, go start talking to your members of congress. >> what about -- >> planned parenthood would be

different, and it would be the one here. but they've been consumed by this fight with komen for the cure foundation and they have other things on their radar, as well. and so what you've ended up happening is exactly your point, which is that an incredibly effective and not totally invalid campaign by the catholic church to put a spotlight on this that is going to probably end up, i'm guessing with some sort of modification to the policy, right? >> but mark haleprin, you have two competing interests here, obviously. you've got the catholic church, you have biden and others that were pushing hard for a religious exemption, but on the other side, there are a lot of women who are saying right now are you kidding me? we're talking about -- we're not talking about abortion, we're talking about contraception. and so it's not as easy as just throwing a bone to the catholic church because if you do that, you're going to see the same sort of reaction from planned parenthood and women who are pro-choice and pro-reproductive

rights as they see it. for a lot of women, that's a top issue, and also for as we always talk about -- i always talk about these swing states and these swing areas like the suburbs of philly. and the i-4 corridor. there is some belief that they can play this against the republicans that are trying to keep contraceptives, not even abortion, contraceptives out of the hands of suburban women. >> you have the details in the politico story that jim talked about is that the white house aide told the reproductive freedom groups don't do a victory dance over this. don't make a big deal over the fact you're going to win this fight. that makes it harder for them to gear up. they have to figure out how to fight back belatedly. i think the president must do -- he was asked a question about it -- and he totally deflected. he said, guys, stop asking me questions. i don't think he can solve this by pushing it past the election. i don't think that'll happen.

i don't think he can solve it by letting joe biden and other people talk about it. there are two principles involved, emotional on both sides. he's going to have to lead the country through this. >> this is rick santorum today. >> i do think the fact these issues are sitting in the backdrop gives him a great moment. this is a big day. if this public policy poll is accurate that there's a huge surge, which we assume there is, unbelievable. and we know nothing. >> exactly -- >> you do know an awful lot, jim. you're a wisconsin guy, and it's hard to explain, and i'm not being condescending to anyone in manhattan or -- you do that. there are -- i live in both cities, it's a different culture than, you know, from wisconsin to missouri to texas to alabama where the impact, the practical impact within seven days of having the planned parenthood battle and then the hhs battle exploding, and then two federal

judges overturning a 14 million vote referendum in california. >> yep. >> you can't overstate how that energizes the base and makes independents go, oh, wow, the federal government. what are they doing? >> and santorum's rhetoric in support of faith and families and being able to draw a clear distinction on health care which infuriates conservatives regardless of whether religious conservatives, it's not a bad recipe when the party's in a funk about mitt romney. the fact that republicans -- someone was talking earlier today about how there's not that much enthusiasm at cpac. how the heck did that happen? i thought republicans loathed president obama and somehow they see him on the verge -- >> i think in the long run, we're going to see this week being much worse for mitt romney than barack obama. it helped santorum, and i think at the end, you're right, it

brings social issues to the forefront, and that's the last thing mitt wants right now. jim, thank you so much. >> thank you, guys. >> always great talking to you. >> enjoy your dating. >> i'm not going to really apply it. still ahead, talking to secretary of housing about the major foreclosure settlement. and it is a big one, about $40 billion to try to help people who are having trouble with their housing still. also, ahead, an update on a story we showed you yesterday. will ferrell announcing key lineups at an nba game. the critics are asking why? and could he do it again? and could he do it on a bigger stage? sports is next with willie. we're back in a minute. what do you get when you combine

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and there for some reason is a picture of lewis burdorph. tiger woods finally won his first tournament after the thanksgiving night car wreck heard around the world at the end of last year, played well earlier this year in abu dhabi and looking good yesterday at

pebble beach. the pebble beach national pro, the first time he's played at that event in a decade. made six birdies, five shots off the lead. he's teamed up with cowboys quarterback tony romo for the tournament. romo's a great golfer. right now that pair is tied for 25th place after the first round. but the shot of the day goes to a guy named ken duke. watch this reaction. >> now to 16. >> ken duke's second shot. flag in the back right here, oh, that is a very good shot. yeah, that will do. oh, no, no, no -- no dancing. no, no, please stop it. >> you got to love david. no, no, no dancing. after that eagle, he's tied for second despite that dance. one more time. there it is.

is the, you wonder, ochocinco era over as far as the name is concerned? according to published reports and according to chad ochocin ochocinco's twitter account, he'll be changing his legal name back to chad johnson this summer just in time for his wedding. the name ochocinco arrived to us in the summer of 2008, lasted a couple of seasons in cincinnati, one in new england where he had only 15 catches this year, including one in the super bowl, said he's leaving ochocinco behind because he wants his new wife to have a normal last name. like johnson. an update on the story we told you about yesterday. will ferrell, remember, announced the starting lineup to the hornets/bulls game a couple of nights ago. in case you missed it, here's the guest public address announcer. >> at forward, number five, he still lives with his mother, carlos -- at guard, number one,

his favorite movie is the notebook, derek rose. 6'10" from connecticut where he majored in econ, but minored in love -- >> after that performance by ferrell, therest there's now a facebook page rallying for him to do the all-star game. get yourself on facebook, put enough heat on will ferrell, he will announce the lineups. tonight, the big story, new york city, the los angeles lakers come to town, but kobe no longer the biggest star in the building. it's this guy, jeremy lynn, the kid out of harvard, the second year guy who has had an incredible run of three games and taken the city by storm. it'll be fun to watch him. living on his brother's couch because he didn't have a contract on the lower east side. >> he's energized that team. >> what do you figure the iq

difference between jeremy lin, harvard grad and the rest of the nba? >> i'm not going to get into that subject. coming up next, we'll get into the details. >> sorry to bother you here, but what is going on with harvard? are they starting to pay their players like fsu used to? i'm joking. it's a seminoles joke. my reference to northwest florida. they've got a quarterback playing for the bills, they've got a superstar out in l.a. in the making now, and of course, their basketball team's in the top 25. what is up with harvard? >> well, the basketball team's got a coach by the name of tommy amiker, who is getting convincing players it's a good idea to come to harvard not only because you get a harvard education, but you're going to win. they've been in the top 20 all season, they'll get a good seat at the tournament. and their football team is good, they blew out yale this year. fitzpatrick is good, but beyond that, i wouldn't worry too much about them personally.

>> they've got a quarterback playing in the nfl. not something you see every year. >> couple of line men too. >> a great stat i read yesterday, joe. >> yeah. >> there had been more harvard graduates as president of the united states than there have been in the history of the nba, 5-4, and jeremy lin becomes the fourth harvard player in the nba. up next, we'll go inside the details of the big mortgage settlement, the secretary of housing and urban development is next on "morning joe." i don't want healthy skin for a day.

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hey, with us now, we've got the secretary for housing and urban development, shaun donovan, i'm thinking about

getting a second or third or a fourth house. i've always wanted a house. i'm looking at this because i've always wanted a house up in nantucket, but the expenses -- the costs are outrageous. can i get any of this $40 billion? by the way, you and haleprin -- >> you guys went to school together you and haleprin. >> that's right. >> class of '87. >> our big reunion's coming up. 25. >> 25. >> 25, that's -- >> looking good, fellas. looking good. >> that's big, and you were talking about the people that graduated from your class. it's huge. it's not quite university of alabama class of '85, but it's close. >> or roughly comparable. >> yeah, well, great. >> arne duncan, basketball. captain of the team. >> and then went off and played in australia. >> met his wife there. >> okay. so this is a big deal. i mean, we always talk about the economy, but the bottom line is,

until the housing crisis is resolved, until people start getting out and buying houses and the foreclosures slow down, this economy's not going to turn around. how big is this mortgage settlement with the top five lenders? >> well, one way to think about it, it's clearly the biggest payout that the banks have had to make in the entire financial crisis. so in terms of real accountability, this is far and away the largest. it's also the biggest state federal settlement in the history of the country. >> 49 states? >> 49 states. >> i've got to ask the question. >> on the same page, right? >> you know the question, 49 states. who is the holdout? >> you know, we called him yesterday morning, said, hey, buddy, last one, when you get to 50, scott pruitt in oklahoma. not a lot of foreclosures in oklahoma. >> a lot of oil money down there. >> i have so many people that come up to me and are still asking me, hey, you know,

because i was in congress, can you get me in touch with somebody that can help me renegotiate my loan? there's -- how does this help the person that has been struggling since 2009 to pay their mortgage? >> and this is exactly the whole reason we thought this was a big opportunity. is because not only do you get accountability for the banks, be uh you also have folks that we could help we're not going to get congress to act right now. very tough to get anything done. >> between now and the election. >> here you give close to $40 billion to homeowners, no cost to the taxpayer, money coming back to the taxpayer through the cash that comes out of the settlement and you get 49 states across political lines. so this was a real coup in terms of getting something done. the president saying we can't wait, we've got to get something done. >> right. >> specifically, there's going to be help like you're unemployed, this will give you a spell you don't have to pay your mortgage. if you're a service member and you're trying to move, it can

help you with a short sale to sell your house and move. but the biggest thing is what we call principal reduction. and you know from florida, you've got 2 million families that owe more on their houses than their homes are worth. >> right. >> and that's the one thing we haven't been able to get started in this crisis. we've gotten people lower payments, but haven't been able to reduce principal. the single biggest reduction of principal in the entire crisis. >> do you have an estimate of how many people could be possibly impacted by this? >> a total of almost 1 million families. and then that 750,000 families that will get payments for restitution. they were harmed, they were robo signed, a bunch of things like that. it is big. >> that's big. we'll talk about the politics of this later after the secretary's gone to play basketball with the president. but i mean, this is part, mark

haleprin, of the eco system, the most important part right now of the financial eco system where everybody's upside down. if you could impact 2 million families, the -- i know this because of florida, the impact on realtors, on builders, on construction companies, on restaurants that feed into this. this could be very significant. >> it could be. not just for the people currently in crisis, but there's a huge backup of demand of people wanting to move to different kinds of homes because their life situations have changed. if we can unstick that, we can have real estate and housing be a driver of the economy. just as a news you can use matter, somebody reads about this today, how do they know if it affects them? how can they act on it? >> one thing we didn't want to create was a false set of expectations, folks thinking they had to apply. the way this is going to work, each of the banks is going to go to the monitor, here's my plan, they'll go out, knock on doors, make phone calls to folks that can get help. nobody has to do anything.

and they'll get help from counselors and others that can make sure they know about it. >> this could be big political news, couldn't it? >> it's huge political news and i think a lot of people are waiting to see how it plays out. and the question i would have, what's the incentive for the banks in the program? and why didn't the fannie/freddie mortgages get included, as well? >> one of the huge problems we have economically right now in terms of the housing market, we have just chaos happening. you could have had 50 state a.g.s going different directions, bringing lawsuits, different rules and different places, and what the banks for them to have one single clear set of rules, everybody has to live by the same rule and now there's clarity. there's this big cloud of uncertainty that gets lifted off the market. we expect to see, you know, foreclosures not stuck in the way that they are we expect to see a lot of homeowners get pulled out of foreclosure to get help. all of that is good not just for the country, but for the banks

to have certainty and turn the page on this. >> all right. secretary shaun donovan, thank you so much. great news for a lot of people today. thanks for coming in and delivering it. >> well, i hope we're proving you can do big things across party lines. not going to do it in congress, but this is a big chance. ♪ it' s nice to be here ♪ ♪ ♪ it's nice to see you... [ male announcer ] this is your moment. this is zales, the diamond store. take an extra 10 percent off storewide now through sunday. take an extra 10 percent off today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe? let's go ahead and bring it online.

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it's the "week in review." >> is it time? >> what happened? >> it's the pills again. >> no, it was cpac, sorry. i'm a little late. >> it's time. here it goes. >> roll it. >> i don't stand here to claim to be the conservative alternative to mitt romney. i stand here to be the conservative alternative to barack obama. >> at number three, the santorum surge. >> rick santorum swept colorado, minnesota, and missouri. >> rick santorum has a big night. >> rick santorum's clean sweep. >> the new comeback kid. >> rick santorum had a big week in the republican race for president. winning three states, receiving the blessing of evangelicals and wearing giant cowboy hats. >> we'll give you texas, brother. >> after a tough few days, the front-runner decided it was

finally time to let america in. >> my father never graduated from college. he apprenticed as a lath and plaster carpenter. on his honey moon, he put aluminum paint in the trunk of the car -- he could take a handful of nails, stick them in his mouth and spit them out. >> all this while washington was fighting over church and state. >> this attack on religious freedom in our country must not stand, and will not stand. >> and we are not going quietly into the night on this one. >> it's a fight that just might end -- >> when you remove the pillars of god-given rights, what's left in france became the giullitine. >> lady ninjas. iran showing off a pack of female ninjas on state tv.

the international community scrambled to develop a response to the reported 3,500 highly trained female ninjas now inside iran ready to do dive rolls over samurai swords and round house kicks alone in the woods. and the number one story of the week -- >> yeah, it's halftime, america. >> with 111 million americans watching the super bowl on sunday, clint eastwood gave a halftime locker room speech to the country. >> this country can't be knocked out in one punch. we get right back up again and when we do, the world's going to hear the roar of our engines. >> dirty harry added his voice to the super bowl parade and david beckham's own roaring engine. a political ad that aired during the super bowl in michigan proved less inspiring than clint's. >> your economy get very weak.

ours get very good. we take your jobs. >> but the real controversy came after the game when super bowl model giselle shot back at some heckling giants fans. sticking up for her husband and trashing his butter-fingered receivers. >> how is my husband supposed to throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time? >> your thoughts on the super model standing by her man. >> yeah. >> yeah, he likes that. eli owned your husband, that's my favorite line of the super bowl. up next, chris matthews and eugene robinson. more "morning joe" in a moment. [ wind howling ]

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what's ultimately at stake here is a first amendment right and a fundamental american value that has stood for two centuries. one thing's for certain, this attack on religious freedom cannot and will not stand. there is a lot of misunderstanding. there's not enough focus on the fact that we've decided there's a year to work this out so we can accommodate it. i'm determined to see this gets worked out. and i believe we can work it out. and as a practicing catholic, you know, i -- i am of the view that this can be worked out and should be worked out. and i think the president -- i know the president feels the same way.

>> well, welcome back to "morning joe." >> oh, look at you. >> i'm here. >> can we see that picture of you and herman cain again? >> it was a rough night last night. >> have we put that up? oh, look at that. the happy couple. >> i -- >> you look so comfortable. >> i went to cpac. i went to cpac, eugene. mark haleprin is still with us here in washington. joining the table, we have the host of msnbc's "hardball." author of "jack kennedy: elusive hero" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson, and it was a lovely event, you did a great job. >> thank you, mika. >> there were very nice people there. >> very nice to you, actually. >> they were. it was -- >> they're little -- >> well, a couple of people screamed what are you doing here? >> what are you doing here? >> there was a woman that screamed that at me and then again and again and again. >> they were wonderful people.

this dancing thing going on. >> we danced. >> you danced? >> i danced at cpac. >> he did not sing to me. but he winked at me from the stage. >> that's good. >> is that okay? >> he's a rock star. >> depends on how you react to it. >> very good. >> he was -- it was interesting his reception. but you know what? paul ryan's speech was very good. >> yep. >> it was a good night. >> very good night, cpac, a lot of young people there, and there's a lot of excitement. and chris matthews, we were just talking before, you -- there's so much debate, how is this going to break? this hhs decision and the planned parenthood decision and everything else. we don't know how this is going to impact president obama in the long run, but we know one thing, it is already impacting the republican nomination, and in politics, as we all know, sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, rick santorum, one lucky man. >> yeah, it's all about topic selection. you know, whatever topic's up,

if it's your topic, you're winning. if it's jobs, the democrats are winning, if it's the budget or debt, the republicans are winning. you know, it's generally the topic now is social issues and the catholic church and it's a hot issue for him. he can talk about it. >> and for mitt romney, a guy that does not want to talk about it -- >> he's out of it. he seems vague again. his irrelevancy to our emotions as a country are coming into tune. he doesn't click with our gut or heart. he doesn't seem to be one of us in the things that we fight about. romney doesn't seem to be interested. it's very funny, but he seems like, well, i'm not interested. i do bain capital, i do equity. >> you've been talking a good bit this week about the hhs controversy. >> yeah. >> and you said something fascinating off the air -- >> yeah, it's like a lot of things. remember the o.j. case, when i got into television, i mean for a year during that incredible trial, a lot of the white people in this country saw it as, well,

he did it. that was the general view. he did it, this guy did it, he killed his wife for the obvious reasons, anger and that kind of thing. and then the black community it became an issue of police abuse. the long history of the l.a. police department. so these were two different views of the same event. two different views. i think this -- >> and never -- >> they never -- >> two different perspectives on the same event. and then you have this case where in the catholic church where mika knows this and any catholic knows this, practically all catholics use birth control. and you go into a church, there's no families of eight anymore like our cousins used to be. the new family of five is three now. birth control is rampant. the church -- i haven't heard a sermon on birth control since the 1950s. they don't talk about it. it's accepted. you want your daughter to practice birth control. everybody does. it's normal. >> the question is for non-catholics, what's the big deal? >> therefore with the women's groups and the activists, of course, it is an issue of women's right and empowerment

and those kinds of things. to catholics, increasingly, i don't know this. for the bishops it's an issue of church prerogatives and church rights, and i don't think it's about -- we've all been trained for this from the time we were kids with the stories of thomas beckett and thomas moore. there will come a time when power will come to the church and challenge our faith and test us and say who are you with? your god or with the powers around you, the mundane powers of the earth and whether it's henry the viii or king henry ii that will force you to eat pork or you're going to be fried or whatever, you have to make that choice. we've all been trained for this, and a lot of catholics are going to rally the church and say good for those bishops. this is the first time i think they're standing up for something i believe. not that we have to do it, we will disagree, we will practice our own american version of catholicism, if you will, but we want them to have that right to say what they believe is right. this issue of birth control and

abortion which they see here is an abortion issue because it has to do with what happens after conception. they believe they have a right, and they do to tell us what they believe. >> right. >> and do they -- and the government is now saying you must take your hand to something you have told us forever is wrong. and they can't do it. and i tell you, as much strength as they show in this the more i think liberal catholics will be proud of them. and this may come to civil disobedien disobedience. if they round them up and put them in prison and a lot of catholics will say, you know what? i get it why they're fighting. i get this. >> you think -- >> so, so, so, gene, we'll see what happens here. but i've got a feeling that joe biden may be right. they're going to probably work out a compromise. and i do believe in the long run, this story when we look back on it is going to be more about the challenge it posed to

mitt romney politically than barack obama. that's the great thing about being president. if you're president, you can set the rules of the game -- >> right. and you can change them. >> if you're mitt romney, you're sitting there going, oh, my god, am i going to have to talk about abortion and contraception and gay rights and federal judges overturning -- for mitt romney, this is just not good. this is not coming at a good time. >> they're not going to round out the cardinals and bishops and put them all in jail. that's never going to happen. >> let's see what happens. >> let's go to -- >> they're going to find a way out of it, i think. and what's going to -- i think you're right. i think this is good for santorum because he gets to talk about his issues and not great for romney. and before we go to mike barnicle in new york, there are a growing number of high-profile democrats who are breaking ranks with the white house. several catholic senators, including john kerry want the administration to adjust its

rules. so it's really interesting and convoluted in each party. >> this is so much heat and so little like these debates, but politically, you can look at it and you can see the white house, and david axelrod suggested it on this show on tuesday, the white house is going to figure out a way to get past this. the question is, again, mike barnicle, will mitt romney be able to do the same thing? because rick santorum surges, he wins three contests on tuesday, and suddenly all hell breaks loose on social issues. gay marriage in california and contraception, planned parenthood. boy, that is a trifecta for a social conservative who also happens to be a very conservative catholic. >> yeah, this is a great issue for rick santorum. it's not a great issue for mitt romney. i mean, he can't handle explaining to the country who he is. so how is he ever going to explain where he stands on this

issue? but the back story of the hhs ruling is becoming increasingly interesting. and chris alluded to the cultural/political interest in it, joe. and it is this. that american catholics by and large, birth control, contraception, we haven't talked about those issues in 30 years. but you've got the left of the catholic church and you've got the hierarchy of the catholic church. and now they are being joined together. you can feel it being joined together by the sense of, hey, to the government, don't push us around. don't push us around. and that's what it's coming down to. and the white house badly misjudged this. they were told in effect flat out, i think by the vice president of the united states, the former chief of staff, and by several others, there's no need to do this. we can -- you know, widen the exemption. there's no need to do this. but a combination of planned

parenthood lobbyists and a couple of the united states senators and kathleen sebelius said, no, we can do it and do it now. it should be done, let's not avoid that issue, it ought to be done. but there was a way to do it better than they did it and they got blind sided by it and they've stepped on their own larger story, the mortgage settlement because people are talking about the hhs deal instead of the mortgage settlement. >> well, again, i think they're going to see a way forward. but chris, could you explain to people who don't follow the priests and the catholic church organizations. there may be an assumption. and i certainly had. i went to catholic high school. had tons of catholic friends going -- always i assumed they were pretty conservative people. i remember in 1995 getting a score card from the catholic bishops and i had like an "f." what are you talking about? but, you know, the catholic church it's not conservative, it's not liberal, man, it is -- why are catholics the ultimate swing voters?

>> well, because the other groups are pretty much vote a certain way. jewish voters tend to be liberal, tend to be democrats, they tend to be african-americans, tend to be democrats overwhelmingly. catholics really differs, they don't vote as a block. they just don't. they're suburban, increasing suburban, irish, italian, black, all kinds of ethnic groups involved. and they're very, they just are swing voters. you look at that 53% that president obama won by, how many of that 53% can you give away? well, you may have given a lot of it away just by doing the heroic things on health care. and among the catholic voters, i think there are those people that are iffy, they're called soft democrats. mark knows this, a soft democrat is someone who probably voted for reagan definitely in '84. they may have voted for him in '80, came back and voted for obama.

probably pro-clinton. but those voters aside -- >> you see ronald reagan -- >> i have a brother, by the way, i can tell a brother who is a salesperson -- who i can call and ask who he's voting for and i'll know who's going to win the election. >> we all sit here and talk politics, but you forget how americans and catholics aren't ideologic ideological, the same catholics that elected ronald reagan twice, bill clinton twice, george w. bush twice. >> they don't completely agree with their leadership at all times. >> at all times. >> right. >> which is why this is ridiculous conversation. >> so that's very tricky business. >> exactly. >> exactly. there are a lot of catholic institutions that, you know, provide the kind of insurance already that is -- that's being abandoned. >> catholic women who don't have the voice. >> my question is how far does that go in voting behavior?

they're being a bully now, it's february, people can think that, but does that translate into votes? >> so, gene, i agree -- i agree with you. >> obviously the white house has a couple of great headlines getting stepped on as mike barnicle said. they've got this $40 billion mortgage settlement, great jobs numbers last week. if i'm david axelrod, i'm pulling my hair out because you have great news on friday, which has been swamped by a bunch of social issues you don't want to talk about. do you think the white house is going to try to get this behind them fairly quickly so they can focus on the great jobs numbers, on this $40 billion mortgage settlement? >> well, how lucky do you want him to be? make the calculation that i made that this is february, we can find a way out of this by november. but meanwhile, this is good for rick santorum. and if rick santorum further

weakens mitt romney, you know, just in political terms, that's not a bad thing. >> do you agree with that? >> i do not believe that the catholic church or anybody else will accept this waiting game, we'll tell you next august. i'll pay you on tuesday for a hamburger today. joe biden is not going to be believed on this because he's been overruled on this thing. he's shown he couldn't win on this argument. nobody's going to believe it when he comes on, a good guy and says we'll try to work it out. yeah, right, work it out before the election, buddy. in fact, i don't think they can work it out. this is one of the issues where the president made his decision to go with the women's group, really strong democrats, let the iffy democrats go to the side, we'll take our chances with our political base, with our fundraisers, the people that show up on fundraisers, extremely activists, we're not going to worry about these iffy, moderate conservative catholics. i think they made their call. >> this is one of those issues, mark haleprin, and you see this a good bit, both sides love it.

the conservative base loves it because they're like, oh, my god this is overreaching and i can go to a fundraiser and talk about how the federal government is violating first amendment rights, which i believe and the conservative movement believes. and yet like chris said, you can always go to fundraisers in new york and washington and san francisco and chicago in urban areas across america and you can say can you believe the republicans first? they came after our right to choose, now they're coming after our birth control pills. you know what that sound is you hear? the checkbooks coming out on both sides writing big checks. this is going to be good for president obama, fund raising wise, and it's going to be good for rick santorum and conservatives. >> as a matter of pure politics, that's ultimately going to be true. but there's one side on the offensive and one on the defensive. you don't see prominent republicans saying, you know what? the president did the right

thing in a hard choice. you see tim kaine running in virginia, but -- >> yeah. >> john larsen, john kerry, the democratic states, catholics saying -- >> i wonder what teresa thinks of that. >> the president has a much stronger case to make. these organizations take federal money, they're not churches, they're organizations that take federal money and there's -- he believes the women have a right to these services. he's not making the case, though, right now, he's styling. >> that is a great point. if you're claire mccaskill in missouri, you're thinking, are you kidding me? i want to talk about unemployment in missouri, not contraceptiv contraceptives. >> i think that's why he's not. >> stay on the defense, and his side will be on the defensive. >> chris matthews is staying with us. eugene -- >> you write a column twice a day, what are you writing? >> i'm writing about mitt romney. i wrote about mitt romney this morning and i asked what's at

the core? >> define something? >> what is your belief set. i haven't found it yet. i failed this morning to find it, but i'm going to keep looking. >> dangerous headline, gene. put romney in the headline, you're going to lose readers. >> oh, god. coming up -- >> it's boring. >> god, chris. >> wow. that's tough. >> you know gene will find a way to make it scintillating. the moderator of "meet the press" is coming up, david gregory and historian and reagan biographer craig shirley joins us on the set here in washington. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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people that are trying to ruin america. we outnumber the stupid people. trust me. i counted them. i knew that we together could change washington, d.c. even if your didn't make it to the white house. >> so what i decided to do was create an army of davids. one of the people that's running for united states congress in the state of ohio in a very challenging district has adopted 9-9-9, and i am endorsing his candidacy is my friend, joe the plumber. stand up, joe. >> joe the plumber. >> wow. okay. >> that was great stuff. >> that was quite a party last night. i met some interesting people. >> it was great.

>> david. >> at cpac? >> yes. >> you spoke at cpac? >> i introduced paul ryan. a good friend. you know, i've known paul since 1994, he was a 23-year-old staffer. and we, of course, wanted to come and abolish four department agencies. i can still remember all four. with us now, the moderator of "meet the press" david gregory and historian reagan biographer craig shirley. he's the author of "rendezvous with destiny." and, of course, chris matthews is still with us. >> hello, chris. >> and you have the man of the hour, actually, on meet the press this weekend. rick santorum. last night, the buzz was there in the crowd for santorum. >> for him. >> you've been talking about what a good set of issues he's working with right now in addition to the fact that he's, i think, made a very effective

campaign against mitt romney's credentials as being a true conservative. i think he's done that throughout at these debates, i spoke to a conservative activist at cpac this week who said a lot of these family issues that santorum talks about. they're not an issue at all this year. they're always there for a lot of conservative voters. on the back burner or front burner. they have reared their head again on the contraceptive issue, which, by the way, rick santorum, other conservative leaders, they're making this about other things. a religious test, yes, this is much more about role of government. this is much more about this is what happens when government makes your decisions. that's the argument. >> and that, craig, is why this is such a dream issue for conservatives. when we go out, when we win out, i never talked about abortion or gay marriage, i talked about taxes, regulation, the relationship between the individual and the centralized

state. >> right. >> you ask me about abortion, i'm pro-life, let's talk about other things. this allows you to connect with the social conservatives while still doing it on your terms. this is about the state stepping into issues. that's why it's a sweet spot for conservatives. >> well, presidents get in trouble when they scare the voters, when they scare the american people. i think this has the potential to scare american people. carter got in trouble when he scared the american people because it seemed he was out of control with the malaise speech. other presidents, obviously richard nixon, scared the american people. there's a potential with this issue. what he's doing is telling catholics, don't be catholics. and that -- and the catholic church is not a small institution in this country. it's a huge institution. >> when you couple -- >> if you're going after the catholic church, what won't you go after? >> but again, this feeds into a narrative, chris matthews where conservatives talk about an

overreaching federal government. >> who is santorum to do that? remember the schiavo case he wants to outlaw abortion? >> let me finish my point. the second part of it is this case out in california. where you have two federal judges, and i'm not talking about what's right and what's wrong, i'm talking about how it plays politically. the same week you have planned parenthood, the hhs decision exploding, you've got two federal judges in the ninth circuit telling 14 million people that their votes didn't matter. it all feeds into a narrative. >> overreach is a big issue, but a trouble with a guy like santorum, he wants to federally nationally outlaw abortion period. he wants to take away that decision making the most fundamental decision making you can imagine. remember the schiavo case when he acted as the senate chaplain where three senators decided they were going to intervene in a family matter down in florida. he's an overreach guy himself. he's close to being a theocrat.

>> well, he's not a theocrat. even conservatives will call him a big-government republican. >> libertarians have a good case here -- >> there's cleavage inside this very faction -- >> ron paul in this case. >> and that's one of the cleavages inside, even with the social conservatives, there was a group of conservatives opposed to the terry schiavo case, there was a group of conservatives including ronald reagan who said just overturn roe v. wade and let them decide. >> i think this idea of that, you know, government is saying to catholics, you can't be catholic. one, i think that's a vast overstatement given the catholic church and the use of contraception. two, i think it's going to get beyond that issue. i really do think that the effective case to mount as conservatives and you talked about, where does mitt romney go with this? as i just lowered my chair.

i don't know why. >> only you. >> this is like -- >> i have a thing with this chair. >> it's -- why is it -- >> i don't know, it's this chair. >> i guess i find myself -- it's emasculating. but anyway, the point is, this can be -- >> this is an excess of the president's health care law. ultimately this is where that goes. that's where mitt romney can pick up the ball. and to your point about political malpractice, is this the fight they wanted to have in terms of defending the health care law? and also they reached out to so many catholics, liberal catholics in the church to get health care passed. so there is that sense of betrayal. >> i think they probably did not think the reaction was going to be that big because they see it as health care for women and honestly, you really can't say that it's asking catholics to not be catholics because most catholics use birth control.

let's not do that. let's not do that. >> it's asking the church to behave in a way -- >> but the church is behaving this way. with all due respect. well, the men who run the church are not living that way. >> since the time of the war on court, we have heard about church and state church and state, church and state. you couldn't put crushes on public property, you have the ten commandments in public schools, so you couldn't go -- church couldn't impugn on the rights of the state, but now you have a case where the state is impugning on the rights of the church. >> i understand and i have an interesting position on that that's not what you would expect. but i will tell you that it's just sort of -- >> you know, your position is interesting because you obviously you are against this hhs -- >> no, i don't think religious institutions should be forced to do something that goes against who they are, it makes sense. but there should be an outside way, which everyone in this country can co-exist and i think the white house is trying to do that.

>> mike barnicle, there's reporting right now -- i'm sorry, i didn't mean to interrupt. >> go ahead, mike barnicle, jump in. >> finish what you were saying, mika, i didn't know you were still going. >> i was finishing my point. >> finish it. >> i hate stepping on other people. >> no. >> are you sedated? what's happening? >> i know, a lot of tweets saying i need to stop stepping on mika. mike barnicle, though, i'm sorry, the white house i think is going to resolve this thing and i think they're going to resolve it pretty soon, which goes back again to mitt romney. republicans are going -- they're going to figure out how to do this where they are going to, as we were saying here, they're going to tie this back to obama care as they call it. we warned you. the overreach of the federal government when they get into your health care, now they're getting into your pews, next they're going to be getting into your refrigeratorrefrigerators, again it's a libertarian argument one that santorum can't

make, they're going to tie that together. don't you think the white house is going to figure that out sooner or later. >> their chairs will go down just as david gregory's chair went down because god will make their chairs go down unless they figure it out because here is where they don't want it to go, joe. here's where they don't want it to go. it's gone partially there as you've just explained. the republicans are now going to make it a political argument about big government and obama care. but on the side of the catholics in this country who have had huge problems with the hierarchy of the church. the obama administration doesn't want it to go here. where the church, the catholic church under the hhs ruling is just a building, and within the building, you get the exemption. catholic charities outside the church feeding the poor, part of the faith, part of being a catholic, taking care of the poor, you don't get the

exemption because you're not in the building that is the catholic church. they do not want this argument to go there. >> david gregory, if this argument is about contraception, democrats win big. if it's about first amendment, republicans win big. >> or if it's just about health care generally. i mean, i go back to something you said a few minutes ago, which i think is right, both sides like this fight. >> oh, yeah. >> both sides like this fight. and there are liberals highly engaged in this who are going to say, republicans, you want to run against the availability of contraception in this election? bring it on. >> there are a lot of people who don't like this fight. tim kaine doesn't like the fight, catholics don't like this fight because it divides their beliefs. it causes them to choose. >> can i make one other point? what's going to really energize conservative voters? this is the question for romney you're posing, which is not just oppositional to obama. will that get voters out?

can conservative voters rally around someone and something bold, bigger message? and i don't know this is big and bold enough with the challenges we face as a country, but i do think it's something that will energize conservative voters. >> claire mccaskill in missouri obviously doesn't want anybody talking about this, bob casey in pennsylvania, but even john kerry in massachusetts saying let's work a deal. >> this reminds me, carter had the majority of born again voters in 1976. he lost them when the irs started going after private christian schools. catholics went for obama four years ago. this could drive catholics back into the republican fold where they were in 1984. >> i think there's another element, by the way. how about this waiting period of august 13. doesn't this remind you of keystone, as well? there was an attempt to neutralize these decisions and we'll make some of the really harder questions -- >> well said. >> your guest this sunday on

"meet the press" are white house chief of staff jack lew, and rick santorum. you're going to be on the round table. exciting show once again. >> one of the days he'll have me at the top of the show. what do i have to do? >> exciting. coming up, the complicated life of jack kennedy. we'll ask chris matthews about new revelations concerning the nation's 35th president. >> is complicated the word we use? >> i'd say undisciplined and there are w ight back. i look at her, and i just want to give her everything. yeah, you -- you know, everything can cost upwards of...[ whistles ] i did not want to think about that. relax, relax, relax. look at me, look at me. three words, dad -- e-trade financial consultants. so i can just go talk to 'em? just walk right in and talk to 'em.

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he looked me right in the eyes and i actually -- he then put his hands on my shoulders and sort of guided me down to the edge of the bed, sort of the corner of the bed. and i think he may have even said to me, is this all right? is this okay? i don't really think i knew what he was talking about. what i felt was, is what okay? i didn't know what was about to happen. and then what did happen was i lost my virginity right there.

>> okay. that was the former white house intern who makes explosive claims in her book "once upon a secret: my affair with president john f. kennedy" and its aftermath. chris matthews is with us, i want to point out that he probably practiced birth control. and i'm dead serious. >> chris, you know a lot of people are surprised and this is shocking. it's not. i mean, we heard about the two interns -- >> fiddle and faddle. >> joe kennedy would try to make out with his daughter's dates when they would come over to the house. >> some say. >> some say. >> he went the other way. >> i'm sorry. well, also with some of the daughters' friends when they would come over. this is not shocking for people that have known -- >> well, part of it is -- first of all, there's no defense of it. >> no, not at all. >> i talk a lot about that in my

book i've been working on in all of these years now. and part of it is his total detachment. his ability to understand the feelings of those around him, in fact track them and manipulate them. with his wife, an amazing ability to understand people's feelings and not be moved by them at all. i think the word that's been used recently is heedless, cold detachment. and the other part of this compartmentalization of this life that seems to be if you listen to all of the tapes that have come out with jacqueline kennedy. full marriage, discussions about emotions and life. the normal things that most married couples think is marriage, the sharing of emotions and life. and yet having these other compartments with these other women at the same time, he was able to keep them sealed off from each other in a way that's almost inhuman. >> that wouldn't be full marriage, then. >> no. >> he's in the mediterranean, he's with other senators having young women and having sex with

other young women. his wife has a miscarriage and they literally have to drag him off the boat to go home and be with his wife. it's a bizarre side of kennedy. >> i wrote about it and smathers was the one who said you better go home if you want to save your marriage. and bobby made the mistake of recommending he not come home because jackie was so angry with him at that point. it's a very hard story to tell. i tried to tell it. i knew mimi, i met her 40 years ago i met her. she's very attractive, very appealing person, very likable. she was 19 years old when this happened. and when i read her account, it's dream-like. doesn't seem real even, but it did happen. i really believe her story. >> he was totally detached from reality and it's unbelievable to hear her say it because you get the sense that she herself is still grappling with what happened. amazing. >> she said she'd do it again. it's all there. >> all right. chris matthews, thank you. your book, "jack kennedy:

elusive hero." >> don't go by that other little book, read jack's book, it's all in there. >> don't get confused. >> there are many imitators, but there's only one "jack kennedy: elusive hero." tackling discrimination, following the work of football stars as they help the next generation push back against racism and bullying. we're going to bring in the film's executive producer and pittsburgh steelers' wide receiver hines ward. the employee of the month isss...

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how you guys doing? i'm good, i'm good. first of all, i just want to say i'm proud to be here. today, you know, i got a chance to see this whole program, it's really just perception. do they think claireton is a bad place? is it a bad place? >> no. >> exactly. these are good people here. you know, and i think similar situations for carlton. a lot of people don't know carlton. he's from trinidad and his family and they speak a little different. but we're all different. >> that was a clip from nfl characters unite, a one-hour documentary that follows football stars as they help young people tackle discrimination. the film airs on usa tonight at 7:00 eastern time. here now the co-founder and executive producer of nfl characters unite charlie eversol and pittsburgh steelers' all-pro

wide receiver hines ward. got to get to the film, but charlie, we saw the shot in the green room, what is up with the pants? what's going on here nickers. >> yeah, i'm launching a clothing line next quarter, and one of the few articles in the launch are a pair of nickers, which hines will be rocking. >> do they make them in barnicle size? >> yes. >> senior nickers. >> senior abuse. stop. >> let's move on to the film. hines, tell us about why this story was personal to you given your own background why you wanted to jump into this project? >> well, when they came to me just hearing about the story and what it was really about, looking at it from the outside, it was almost looking into a mirror. seeing a younger version of myself having carlton understand the diversity he has to go through growing up as a child. it took me back to when i was a

teenager and, you know, i think so many kids nowadays find a hard time of finding their identity. you know, not only do you have to deal with the economic issues of who's rich, who's poor, but just being different, and being only one of your kind in your whole high school, your whole middle school, it created a difficult time for me growing up as a child. so when they came to me and asked me, you know, to take part in it, i was thrilled just to be able to open up and let carlton know that throughout all the success i've had in the super bowls, the mvp that i was in a similar situation that he was. and really never made excuses for my environment, turning it into a positive the. >> your mother is korean, your father's african-american. so how does that affect the way you were perceived because you moved to the united states to georgia when you were only 1-year-old? >> well, i mean, you know, i

remember vividly in elementary school, you know, the black kids didn't want to hang out with me because i was korean, the white kids didn't want to hang out with me because i was black. the korean kids didn't want to hang out me because i was black. so for me, i was trying to fit into a group, even though there was some group i shouldn't be involved in just trying to fit in because they accepted me because i was cool or what not. it wasn't until i got involved with sports that that was my escape from being teased all the time. once i got involved in athletics people didn't look at me as color and who i was but kind of just took me on as the brotherhood or somebody part of a family. but there are so many kids out there that don't have sports, athletics as their escape to get away from things they're being teased about and discriminated against. i've started my own foundation hines ward helping hands foundation to help equality for

kids all over the world and give them self-consciousness that they can be positive people. >> in putting this film together with hines and talking to some of the young people we just saw in that clip did you get a sense of how powerful tweeting and texting is today in terms of brutalizing back and forth brutalizing kids? >> no doubt. we worked with hines and jimmy graham from new orleans, tony dunn gee the first african-american coach to ever win the super bowl and each went through what they went through when they were younger and one of the major differences we found was hines got picked on in the hallways and in the classroom. hines wasn't going home and getting ims and facebook and text messages and tweets and the overreaching power of social media to exponentially grow the brutality of discrimination and prejudice is shocking. at the exact same time, and i think this came through hines'

story more than anywhere the ability of the internet to reverse that course. as soon as hines spent some time with these kids and kind of said i was there and it took me forever to get over it the kids in carlton's school at least rallied around carlton like, you know what? we're all part of this family. why aren't we doing this? and that to me is, you got to look at it both ways. you have to be aware of the fact that facebook can be a dangerous tool in that respect but at the same time if you embrace it the right way it should be a gathering spot, a way for people to express themselves as individuals. >> so, hines, what is your message when you walk into that classroom not just to the kid who's being picked on but to the kids who are picking on him. what do you say to them? >> really just bring the awareness. everybody is different in america. you know, you have some form or fashion that, you know, you have a mixed race, you know, in your blood line but really i took part, took the initiative to really challenge the athletes because so many kids looked up

to the athletes in clarendon high school. they're known for their football and the city between the school, the city and the pittsburgh steelers, the relationship is a special bonding and so many kids look up to football players that play on the pittsburgh steelers. so the powerful message i try to send to those guys is continue to be leaders. i mean, it's amazing what you guys do in classrooms when people want to be like you. so i challenge the football players, hey, let's try to do less teasing and more encouraging and help people who aren't less fortunate to play football and, you know, who may be a little different but it's okay. we're all a little different. >> charlie, you couldn't have found a better guy. >> you will never believe what happens in the first act of this documentary when hines challenges carlton who -- he challenges carlton to write a song with these kids to perform in front of the entire school at the end of the day.

the song was so good that we brought carlton out to l.a. he produced the song. it's on i-tunes and is trending on i-tunes right now premiering on the "today" show a little later this morning. >> congratulations to both of you guys. awesome work. you're going to be back with the steelers next year. nfl characters unite. airs on usa tonight at 7:00 eastern. thanks, guys. used to be we socked money away and expected it to grow. then the world changed... and the common sense of retirement planning became anything but common. fortunately, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. take control by opening a new account or rolling over an old 401(k) today, and we'll throw in up to $600. how's that for common sense? laces? really? slip-on's the way to go. more people do that, security would be like -- there's no charge for the bag. thanks. i know a quiet little place where we can get some work done. there's a three-prong plug. i have club passes. [ male announcer ] now there's a mileage card that offers

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unlike any leader in modern american history we are led today by a president that has decided to pit americans against each other. the basic argument that he's making to our nation is that the reason why some of us are worse off than we used to be is because other people are doing too well. that the only way for some of us to do better is for other people

to do worse. >> this election cannot just be a referendum on president obama's failed leadership. americans deserve a choice -- a choice between two dramatically different visions for our country's future. as conservatives, we owe americans that choice. >> good friday morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast as you take a live look at new york city. beautiful friday. back with us onset in washington we've got sam stein, michael steele, and mark halperin. in new york the great willie geist and mike barnicle. you guys were all at c pac yesterday and, sam, you actually said you were ready to contribute to a certain candidate. >> joe the plumber. he won a huge endorsement yesterday. herman cain got up, gave a rousing speech, said joe the plumber's endorsed 9-9-9, hence he endorses joe the plumber.

>> that simple. >> he was a rock star. >> made for these moments. the only thing i found kind of interesting was herman cain obviously has endorsed newt gingrich. he never mentioned newt's name once the entire time. he gave a good endorsement for joe the plumber. herman was made for those moments. the crowd loved it. >> yeah. >> started with a classic teleprompter joke. those never get old apparently. >> well, i'll tell you if you look at the front page of "the washington post" you talked about newt gingrich. here are some shots from c pac and the headline "romney stuck in lukewarm advisers fear" and mark halperin you say that is the big story out of c pac. at the end of the night when i was bidding adieu to everybody saying good night i said, hey, tomorrow big day for c pac. mitt romney's going to speak and newt gingrich. nothing, nothing. and rick santorum. and the cheers erupted.

there's a new ppp poll that's going to be coming out nationally but last night the tweet came out saying it's pretty clear from the first day in the field, the new front-runner is rick santorum. >> if you've never been to c pac air missing out. it is one of the great events in american political life. thousands of activists in the room. it's not a partisan judgment. nothing like it. >> a lot of young -- >> a lot of young people. >> when i introduced paul ryan talking about experience, it's not a partisan judgment, the biggest line i got in my introduction was when i said, basically, paul and i have learned one thing over the past 20 years since we first met each other and that is that big government republicanism is just as bad for america as big government liberalism, big cheer. it is not partisan. you talk to those people. they don't trust republicans any more than they trust democrats. >> the left needs an event like this. it truly energizes the

republican party. this is a big day because santorum comes in with momentum. if you took away their resumes and bank accounts and just said the c pac crowd is going to hear speeches from santorum, gingrich, and romney, santorum clearly is the best player for them in terms of his presentation and his issues. >> yes. >> i think he'll come in today and do a great job. gingrich has always done well at this event. they usually play the eye of the tiger when he walks in. i think he'll probably do well. santorum definitely. gingrich maybe. romney is the big question. this has not been a great group for him over the years. he needs to come in i think and have a great day not just because of the activists in the room but the echo effect they'll have around the country and the national media. >> a lot of skepticism though of gingrich in that room. i was surprised because c pac seems to me, michael, to be gingrich's kind of event. he's been there so many times. i tell you, a lot of skepticism as al said yesterday on the show when i said, boy, mitt romney has a lot to prove. he politely said not as much as newt. why is that? >> i think because, you know,

some of the skin has come off his hide over the last few months and people have been re-exposed to stuff they thought they knew but didn't remember and now they do and they're not happy. all of that. so i think for him, you're right. he's got to come in and lay down that eye of the tiger for them and kind of show them that he's still got that fight and he's the guy to go forward. but i really think to your point this is santorum's moment. they've got the poll that will be coming out, the straw poll tomorrow. >> right. >> so it'll be a chance for him to sort of galvanize this core constituency right before that. but there's not a bigger weight than the one on mitt romney right now. four years ago he came there. >> he was a hero. >> he rocked the house when he stepped down. now the question is can he rock the house today and step up? >> but you know we were talking though and it is amazing and there were other people that were scratching their heads about this last night. four years ago sam stein you were still in junior high school. >> not even. >> but four years ago mitt romney comes in to c pack.

>> yeah. >> and i remember it very well. everybody was waiting. he was the one that was going to slay the dragon of john mccain and rudolph guiliani. he was a conservative's best hope. we heard the story, i think you told me yesterday, after he drops out, bay buchanan. >> i told thaw. i was in junior high school. >> i tell you, that is another shocking thing about c pac every year just how young the attendees are. probably average age 24 or 25. >> they're young but they are idealistic and they are knowledgeable. >> oh, my gosh. i know. >> your part is right. four years ago -- >> but bay buchanan was crying when romney stepped out of the race. >> unbelievable. >> conservatives were shocked. >> yeah. >> and now he comes back. my gosh. >> it's an amazing transformation in that short period of time. even more amazing is how gingrich and santorum have flipped. you know, what was it, two weeks ago we were talking about how if

only rick santorum would get out of the race newt gingrich would be elevated to the conservative alternative to romney. that same ppp poll you just cited, they said last night if you took gingrich out of the race and it was just santorum and romney, romney would be an intense, incredible trouble in this race. >> really. >> it was confirmed to me yesterday they've raised over $2.1 million maybe $2.2 million since the big wins this week. they are really riding a wave. there is a lot of pressure on santorum today. i know you think he is going to step up to it. if he falls flat a little bit that would let the wind out of the sails in a way that i don't think is comfortable for -- >> i think for rick over the past year and a half mark halperin and you followed him a good bit speaking to crowds of 14 and 15 in donut shops in western iowa, to step into c pac to have a hero's welcome. >> yeah. >> freese was there last night. he is energized and ready to

write more checks. i tell you what, i think rick is going to find this crowd to his liking. >> he had some huge crowds in oklahoma over the last couple days. i tell you, there's a difference probably between gingrich and santorum which is romney is coming after santorum now. the super pac hasn't geared up with tv ads yet but they're going to come after him. he handles when people come after him much better than gingrich has so far. >> yes. >> in the senate, in pennsylvania politics, he is a cool customer when it comes to stuff. he knows what's coming at him. he doesn't have the infrastructure, opposition research and massive number of surrogates to defend him but from a personal point of view he will not be intimidated or rattled. >> let's go to some clips and of course today presidential hopefuls mitt romney and rick santorum and newt gingrich as we've just said are going to be on the stage at c pac in a few hours all vying for the support of the conservative base but yesterday kentucky senator rand paul focused his remarks on the importance of the upcoming election. >> this election may be the last best hope of saving the american

dream. who will be that next ronald reagan? who will be our heroes? who will become the next generation of the great leaders? the republican party is an empty vessel unless we imbue it with values. we have to believe in something. >> if it's halftime in america, i'm fearful of what the final score is going to be if we let this president start the second half as a quarterback. >> i thought you would be interested in knowing that running for president of the united states is really one series of humiliations after another. but it's also a very educational experience and i learned three things when i was running for president. first of all, i learned where john wayne was born. that's very important. and then second, i learned the day that elvis presley was born. these are vital issues to our

republic. and, third, i learned never forget the three things that you learned. very important when you're running for president. >> you were talking about how good she was. >> she was. >> the reviews from michele bachmann were all positive. >> oh, yeah. she was loose, funny. obviously you can't act like that when you're in the presidential campaign but it just showed a different side of her than i think a lot of people actually know of. she even did an interview with the huffington post after the fact which i thought was amazing. >> that is amazing. i don't know why anybody would do that. >> she thought it was "the onion." >> i guess so. >> i wish i had a good comeback. >> so we'll see what happens. what are the romney people telling you then? >> he met yesterday with some religious conservative leaders and he also raised a lot of money. and those are the two sort of projects going forward. have the infrastructure which has been their big talking point. we're bigger than anybody and

the only ones who can afford to go all the way to the convention but also he needs a message. he is talking about doing a huge economic speech coming up in the next few weeks before michigan and arizona. and they recognize the stakes in this primary. those primaries are huge and although they're a few weeks out. >> why are they huge? >> because i think romney has to win them both or he will not secure the nomination. >> is he -- i mean, that's a home field advantage. >> a great state for rick santorum because of the makeup of the electorate there, fits in with the blue collar message and religious conservative message. pennsylvania and michigan similar demographically. romney's father was governor and yes he was born there but i don't think he has a hold on that state. again, the romney formula from florida spend a lot of money in negative ads with super pac ads against your opponent. if santorum competes there that will be an issue. santorum and gingrich haven't shown their hands. michigan is proportional delegates so they'll compete there because they want to pick up some delegates and maybe beat romney. arizona is winner take all.

the question is does anybody try to beat romney in arizona? >> the one thing i hear from romney people from that camp now are sincere concerns about the money that they're going to actually have to spend now on this primary. they had this perception that they could, you know, spend a little bit but actually save up for the general election. now you're getting a sense that they're worried about the resources that are going to come with defeating whether it's gingrich, santorum, or all of them as they go to the convention. >> mitt romney is saying he is not threatened by rick santorum's rise this week but judging by the new level of attacks out of the romney campaign he is certainly at least, at least paying attention. >> well, i think you've seen rick santorum get his opportunity now to be, you know, one of the leading contenders. he hasn't been as visible in the sweepstakes so far but he certainly is now. and that means that he'll be under the microscope like all the rest of us have been and obviously some of the things in his record are troubling, the fact that he voted five times to raise the debt ceiling without

getting, compensating reductions in federal spending. that is a problem. the fact that while he was in washington government spending grew by 80%. and the fact that he is a defender of earmarks. i'm in favor of a ban on earmarks. i think spending in washington is out of control and i wouldn't raise the debt ceiling without getting compensating reductions in federal spending. >> all right. willie geist, it begins. i think we'll start seeing a one on one showdown between mitt romney and rick santorum especially with the polls seeming to break in santorum's direction. might get ugly quickly. >> it looks like it. that's why i think today is so interesting. mike and i didn't make it down for c pac. we did go to their satellite event at whole foods on the upper west side, a gathering of all the conservatives up there on the upper west side. but it's interesting reading some of the tweets and the reports that came out of there. eric erickson who i think we all agree is an influential conservative said it was the least excited he has seen c pac on a day one ever and he said just straw polling the energy is behind rick santorum.

he said even in the green room romney supporters are not supporting mitt romney in this event. so it would be interesting to see how mitt romney is able to express his conservativism. i think rush limbaugh said it best a couple days ago when he said, when rick santorum speaks like a conservative, it comes naturally to him. when mitt romney does it feels like he's putting on airs, putting on a little bit of an act. it will be interesting to watch today. >> willie and i are also in need of some insight from you and the panel down there in washington and it was provoked again by the clip we just showed of rick santorum's entrance yesterday into the hall of the c pac convention. and you've alluded to it several times in the conversation thus far. the fact that we're told by you and others that the demographic at this convention is quite young. so my question to you begging some insight from you is why do we think -- why are we under the impression that most conservatives who go to these conventions are like get off my lawn 65-year-old guys?

why don't we get any attention paid to the fact that apparently it's a quite young demographic there? >> well, you know, it is a very young demographic. you look at the pictures on the front of the "the washington post." you look at all of them. it is. it's c pac this year but especially but it's usually thousands of young conservatives from across the country that come here and then fan out and support the candidate of their choice. >> i said before the left would be smart to have an event like this, young, idealistic, well informed people from all over the country who come to socialize and network and listen to the speeches. and the audience reaction is an extraordinary thing to watch. it is the best focus group of the conservative movement any of us could ever have to see what kind of lines get a good response. and the young voters are, you know, a huge part of republicans' chance to win this year. >> i think the young voters actually play to santorum. they are operating on the idea that for many, many cycles the

party has been told to go with someone who is more moderate who can win and now again it's once again mitt romney. and i think they among -- of all people are saying what's different this time? i think it works to his favor. >> michael, is everybody overplaying it, romney's lukewarm advisers feel and new polls come out. is everybody overplaying their last hand like the generals fighting the last war or do you agree as a guy that thns party well because you ran it for so long, is mitt romney in trouble? >> yeah. i think he is. i think he has been for sometime. joe, you and i have sat at this table and with others and had the same conversation. here we are still having it about, gee, what does he do to get the conservatives behind him? you know, that's only something he can solve at this point. we can talk about it all day long and blog about it but it's going to be mitt romney in the well of that hall talking to

those young conservatives and rallying them around him. if he can't do it, watch out, santorum is on the loose. >> coming up next we've got the archbishop of washington. cardinal donald wuerl joining us onset. also luke russert and willie's week in review. first here is todd santos with a check on the weekend forecast. >> for the most part looking good. if you hope for snow through places like new york, philly and boston, new york and philly maybe the 1 to 3 inch range boston 2 to 4. let's track some of the snow. back through the northwest great lakes, some of that will be heading down to chicago. this is a six-hour loop. so it's slowly making its way to chicago and should be there by late this afternoon about a 1 to 3-inch storm there but over toward northwest indiana could be more than that especially as the lakes get involved. the other thing you'll notice, a look at temperatures outside right now on the cool side of things as you work into saturday and sunday. we'll start to see some much cooler temperatures especially working here into the northeast and that is what is going to support those chances for snow showers. we'll have more "morning joe"

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that's $625 toward your next trip when you redeem through ultimate rewards. so, why settle for gold when you can have so much more? chase sapphire preferred. a card of a different color. call the number on your screen or visit our website to apply. all right. welcome back to "morning joe." a live look at the white house. there are new developments right now on the contraception mandate. the white house expected to make an announcement on that today. let's go to nbc's kristen welker at the white house with more on this. >> reporter: good morning to you, mika. senior administration officials confirm that it is very possible that they will be announcing

later today a development on that contraception mandate. of course that mandate requires that all religious affiliate institutions cover women's health care, including contraception. as you know, as you've been reporting on all morning long and all week that has caused quite a back lash from folks within the catholic community and elsewhere. so today what are we expecting to hear? well, according to people who have been briefed on this matter actually outside of the white house, this will continue to cover all women but it will still contain language that will in some way allay the concerns of religious affiliated institutions. so we're not getting a whole lot of details just yet but we are expecting a big announcement here from the white house on this very controversial matter. mika? >> kristen welker live from the north lawn of the white house. thanks very much for that late report. >> we have breaking news here. obviously it looks like a deal is being struck. talking about the outlines of

what looks like the hawaii deal. others suggesting maybe not so much. this sounds like they are moving to a position with the catholic church and others to be pleased with. >> the bottom line for the white house is to maintain equal access to all, services for all government employees. they have apparently found a way they think satisfies that. my sense is that it is going to move maybe even further towards what defenders of religious liberty in this case would like to see. >> ha. perfect segue. joining us now cardinal donald wuerl. his eminence the archbishop of washington is the author of "seek first the kingdom" challenging the culture by living our faith. what perfect timing. very good to have you. >> cardinal, thank you so much for being with us. it sounds like there may be some movement toward the catholic church's position. how important is this to you? >> it is very, very important because at the very heart of this is not a question about what services are being provided, contraceptives, sterilization, abortification

drugs but the freedom of people all over this country to continue to exercise their faith, their faith-based convictions. the catholic church and i'm joined by people from religious convictions all over the country, we have been engaged for hundreds of years in providing education, health care, community services, care for the needy, the sick, care for the homeless, orphans, the poor. and we do that. we do that out of our faith conviction. to simply wipe all that away and say that doesn't count, what really counts is you must do these things, when we tell you, the reason we are so concerned is this attacks our basic freedom. to put it into a perspective that might be more appealing to media people, suppose the administration simply announced that it would have directives,

mandates, and on tuesdays and fridays this is what you would speak about on the program. you'd be outraged. you'd say we're not going to do that. that violates our constitutional right. we're seeing when you tell us, these are the things you will do if you're going to stay in business in providing health care, education, care for the needy, the sick, the homeless. these are the things you're going to do. we're saying the same thing. no thank you. >> let me ask you a question about the metaphor. these organizations don't take money from the government. the organizations we're talking about do. if you want to be free from the strick churs of the government why not just say we won't take any federal money? >> i stood outside the pastoral center of the archdiocese of washington yesterday and answered that same question. not one penny of government money goes into that building. not one penny of government money supports me in my ministry as archbishop of washington. not one person in that building is supported but we would have

to -- i would have to provide those benefits simply because the government says we demand you provide and you with your money pay for those benefits. >> is there, in your point of view from your perspective an option because the white house had said they are trying to work on some sort of understanding where everybody at least is a little bit more comfortable with the situation, the hawaii model for example where there is a third party that perhaps covers the things that the catholic church might not feel comfortable covering, is that a way to co-exist? or disagree? >> mika, it depends on what's proposed. i don't know what's being proposed. >> are you open to that concept though? >> the concept that at least as i understand the so-called hawaii compromise is you don't have to do this. you just have to refer people to them. that seems to me like saying in our schools, we're not going to have pornographic websites in our classrooms but we will have to have referrals to where the kids can go to find those websites. i don't think it makes sense. we have to keep going back to

what's really at issue here -- freedom. the freedom of faith-based entities. that's why you're seeing support not just from the catholic church for the rollback of this but from jewish organizations, muslim organizations, protestant organizations. they're saying, at the heart of this the real issue is freedom. the freedom of faith-based entities to carry out their work without the government saying here's the way you're going to do it. >> so you understand there are obviously competing interests here regarding freedom. i believe like you do that this strikes at first amendment freedoms and yet there are women who believe that there's another freedom that's being infringed upon in this case and that is their right for reproductive freedom. we have two competing freedoms clashing with each other. >> or definitions of freedom.

>> or definitions of health care. it's this administration who has redefined health care. it is the -- the presumption is a pregnancy is some sort of health care anomaly that to have -- to be pregnant is some sort of illness. we must prevent that illness and so we've redefined health care. we've redefined health care is all about. it used to be that health care was to treat an illness, to prevent an illness, and to see that people could avoid an illness. now we're seeing, well we're going to redefine all of that and now a pregnancy becomes the problem. >> let me go to mike barnicle up in new york. mike barnicle, i don't know that he's a good, practicing catholic. but i don't know, barnicle. i'll let you answer that one. he certainly understands the church's position here. you only go to church what, three, four times a week, barnicle? >> i'm down to about four times a week and no longer a daily

communicant. let me ask you about compromise, your eminence. we don't know what the white house is going to suggest but quite close to where you are sitting right now, georgetown university, they offer their employees two different health care plans. one that excludes birth control, one that includes birth control. would that kind of compromise be acceptable to you? >> i would have to see what would be proposed, because it's the larger context that we're really concerned about. right now the mandate is such that i would really want to see what is being offered. our concern is our basic freedom and i'm not sure it makes sense to say how about if we compromise away parts of your freedom? how about if this part is acceptable to us and this part isn't? i would want to see exactly what we're being offered. >> so this is such a fascinating conversation on so many levels and i really would be interested

in hearing your answer to this next question because a lot of the criticism of the policy has been that it is asking the catholic church to cease to be catholic and that even if as you just said earlier if you're asking a third party to cover contraception you're really just -- like the porn sites -- referring them. it doesn't really fix the problem. i want to add another dimension to this conversation, which is a little uncomfortable but do you keep in mind also that many catholics, possibly even a predominant number, use birth control? and how do you factor that into this? >> the first responsibility -- >> are they not catholics? >> oh, they're catholics. but i don't want to shock you, mika. >> okay. we have to just go there. >> i don't want to shock you but, you know, there are even catholics in jail. >> i understand. >> there are catholics that do bad things. and there are catholics that do things they know their church is opposed to. that's between as they work out

their conscience but that doesn't mean they're going to say because i don't live up to all the rules of the church the government should be able to silence my church. i think that's where many, many catholics are. >> you mentioned the traditional definition about treating an illness. 14% of all prescriptions of birth control are not for contraception. they're actually for treating illnesses such as ovarian cancer, pcos, stuff that actually has to require the use of birth control in order to keep your medical bills down from going extravagant. >> have you been talk tog yoingr mother this morning? his mother yesterday said if i didn't ask tough questions my mother would kill me. she said ob-gyn. >> the woman who contacted me after yesterday who has a medical bill that is about a hundred dollars a month just for birth control. she is on double doses. she is not getting pregnant. she just needs it because it's for her own health. now, if she were to want to work

at a catholic university or catholic hospital she would be financially prohibited from doing it unless this rule were to change. what would you tell someone like that who actually requires birth control for her own health? >> the question of access is very different from the question of freedom. access to contraceptives, access to sterilization, access even to abortifations is a reality today. you can purchase these things. you can get these things. i'm told it's not quite as expensive to go in and buy contraceptives. >> it is for this person. >> but to say that because we want access you must lose your freedom to be able to determine what you will do -- if someone comes to work for me i would think they would want to share in the values of my school for example that they would want to share in those values so the question is not access. the question is freedom. >> sam, let me ask you really

quickly, you may not have the answer to this, but somebody told me earlier that -- and i have not been going to public health care departments to pick up birth control but somebody told me that if you're in a situation where you don't have the money to do that, there are certainly an awful lot of options where you can get it from the health department. you can get it from other organizations. >> it depends. it honestly depends. there are places where that is true. then there are places where that simply is not true. there are times when you can purchase birth control and it's on the cheap and there are times when you need it for a medical ailment and it costs hundreds of dollars. it is an actual bill that you have to pay. i grant what you're saying and i understand there are institutions and if you want to be part of that you probably should adhere to its tenants. the problem is it's not always that simple. >> what if we go back to that analogy with media? what if the government said it is very important that on tuesdays and fridays these messages be delivered. it's for the good of the country.

>> funny. hold on. is it friday? >> it's friday, yes. >> yeah, point well taken. >> so you would say, granted it's very important to know this piece of information especially if the white house wants everybody to know. but our freedom is more important. freedom of the press is more important than being able to comply with the government mandate on what we will say and when we will say it. >> all right. cardinal, thank you so much for being with us. >> fantastic conversation. we don't all agree. >> i've got a feeling that this story is going to continue moving and we hope you'll come back. it was great having you here today. always good being with you. >> especially with the timing of the deal. >> thank you very much. >> mika, good to see you. >> thank you so much. thank you for coming in. >> you would never know it but she agrees with your position. >> the white house -- >> she's not telling anybody. >> -- is expected to make an announcement today. i have been incredibly transparent. there are some who don't choose to listen. >> all right. we'll be right back with luke

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>> one man has done over 14

years incarcerated and is innocent while another man who is a killer may be on the train with you. >> meet john veils kwez convicted of killing a retired new york city police officer during a botched robbery in harlem. a conviction he has always claimed is unjust. >> you say you had nothing to do with the crime. you were nowhere close to the scene. why is it that you were picked out? >> luke, that's probably the best question in the world, because i don't know the answer. >> that was a clip featuring john valasquez a man behind bars whose case "dateline" has been investigating for a decade. here with us now to give the details nbc's "dateline" correspondent and congressional correspondent luke russert. >> how are you sir? doing all right. tell us about this guy. "dateline" has had its eye on this case for ten years as i said. >> yeah. >> what is the back story? >> quite an amazing story. about 1997 he was charged with murdering a guy named albert

ward a retired new york cop. when the murder occurred there was a bulletin that went out that said it was an african-american man with dread locks. j.j.valasquez is a hispanic man with short hair and got picked up. the reason was eyewitness identification. at a police precinct all these eyewitnesses who had drug histories of their own, one specific witness after going through hours and hours of photographs even though he had eight pounds of heroin in his own pants and the cops did nothing about that ended up picking out john adrian velazquez and through what we've often seen in the court system denot have the best defense going and ended up convicted for this crime all based on the fact that the jury did not believe he was on the phone with his mother. that was his only alibi. to make a long story short here is somebody that had no dna, no murder weapon ever found, no physical evidence at the scene and has now been in jail for 15 years based solely on eyewitness identification. if you watch our "dateline" special on sunday night at 7:00

p.m. we track down those eyewitnesses and they had some very interesting things to say about how they feel now about implicating a man and putting him in jail for 15 years. >> he sent letters from jail to nbc is that right? >> the reason we know about him is he sent letters from jail to "dateline" and he is an extremely well-spoken guy. he speaks with a resonance and you almost see a politician. he knows how to really play off one's emotions. and when i went in there i was trying -- originally trying to make him guilty, trying to prove his guilt. we had a very difficult time doing that. what is fascinating is he self-taught himself criminal law and through being self-taut and filing endless appeals we were able to see at "dateline" here is a guy who has done a lot of the investigative work himself. it was basically up to us to connect the dots and we try to do that with our special this sunday, 7:00 p.m. plus you get to see me go to prison three or four times which

is a very striking thing i must tell you. >> no physical evidence at all? >> no dna, no physical -- >> hard to believe in jail for life and no physical evidence. >> and it talks about eyewitness identification which the supreme court looked at last month, a few justices had some issue with it. we really try and start a conversation about the criminal justice system in this country as well as eyewitness identification and how someone can go away with that even if there are as many character flaws in the eyewitnesses. sunday 7:00 p.m. >> don't look at me. i'm just here to monitor his behavior. >> you're a chaperone. >> "conviction dateline" sunday 7:00 p.m. set your dvr. tell your friends. >> decide for yourself. luke russert. see you on "the daily rundown." >> thank you so much sir. uh oh.

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you get accountability for the banks but you also have folks that we could help. we're not going to get congress to act right now. >> right. >> very tough to get anything done. here you get close to 40 billion to home owners, not even no cost to the taxpayer. actually money coming back to the taxpayer through the cash that comes out of the settlement. and you get 49 states across political lines. so this was a real coup in terms of actually getting something done. >> that was secretary for housing and urban development sean donovan earlier on "morning joe" the secretary weighing in on the $25 billion mortgage settlement between the nation's five biggest banks and the government. roughly 750,000 families who have faced foreclosure could qualify for payments as much as $2,000. >> that is a big news story and you look at the white house saying in the long run the hss

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♪ >> you waited long enough. it's time for the week in review. >> i don't stand here to claim to be the conservative alternative to mitt romney. i stand here to be the conservative alternative to barack obama. >> at number re

sue. >> rick santorum swept colorado, minnesota, and missouri. >> rick santorum has a big night. >> rick santorum's clean sweep. >> the new comeback kid. >> rick santorum had a big week in the republican race for president, winning three states, receiving the blessing of evangelicals, and wearing giant cowboy hats. >> we'll give you texas, brother. >> after a tough few days the front-runner decided it was finally time to let america in. >> my father never graduated from college. he apprenticed as a lathe and plaster carpenter. on his honeymoon he put aluminum paint in the trunk of the car. he could actually take a handful of nails, stick them in his mouth and, you know, spit them out. >> all this while washington was fighting over church and state. >> this attack by the federal government on religious freedom in our country must not stand and will not stand. >> and we are not going quietly

into the night on this one. >> it's a fight that just might end at the bastille. >> when you remove the pillar of god-given rights, what's left in france became the guillotine. at number two, iranian lady ninjas. iran flexed its muscle this week showing off a pack of female ninjas in a provocation on state tv. the international community scrambled to develop a response to the reported 3500 highly trained female ninjas now inside iran. ready to do dive rolls over samurai swords and round house kicks alone in the woods. and the number one story of the week. >> yeah. it's halftime, america. >> with 111 million americans watching the super bowl on sunday, clint eastwood gave a

halftime locker room speech to the country. >> this country can't be knocked out with one punch. we'd get right back up again and when we do the world is going to hear the roar of our engines. >> dirty harry added his voice to the super bowl parade of dogs, cars, and david beckham's own roaring engine. ♪ oh, lord please don't let me be misunderstood". >> a political ad that aired during the super bowl in michigan proved less inspiring than clint's. >> your economy gets very weak. ours gets very good. we take your jobs. >> but the real controversy came after the game when super model gisele shot back at some heckling giants fans. >> eli owned your husband. >> sticking up for her husband and trashing his butter fingered receivers. >> my husband cannot throw the ball and catch the ball at the same time. >> mr. eastwood, your thoughts on the super model standing by her man. >> yeah. >> just the way he says that.

up next what if anything did we learn today? ♪ it' s nice to be here ♪ ♪ ♪ it's nice to see you... [ male announcer ] this is your moment. this is zales, the diamond store. take an extra 10 percent off storewide now through sunday. excuse me.

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 fresher less processed foods introducing freshpet vital recipes so fresh the only preservative we use is the fridge freshpet fresh food for fido welcome back. what we learned today, mika, what did you learn? >> c pac people are fun. >> c pac people are good people. you did have a good time. >> i had a very good --

>> we're doing this cuban dance. >> we were dancing with c pac. i didn't expect that. >> unbelievable. sam's speed dating and you're dancing. >> you did a great job speaking last night. >> there you go. >> it went on for a long time. >> the former new jersey governor tom kaine, mika, and c pac together. >> i learned it's good to see the bishops of the country unified around an issue that is talking about doctrine and freedom. >> they are unified. sam? >> c pac besides my own professional dating lectures. >> something else. >> mitt romney's speech today. a lot hanging on it. >> and also rick santorum's. willie, what did you learn? >> i learned mika says c pac people like they're martians, those c pac people from another planet. also mark barnicle wastes no time catching that shuttle on a friday. he has been gone for 20 minutes. >> of course. >> can you believe