tv Escape From the Past MSNBC February 12, 2012 9:00am-10:00am PST
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handling, the next generation of lexus will not be contained. the all-new 2013 lexus gs there's no going back. ♪ has the jury reached a verdict. >> i could be anyone. i could be anyone. >> the kind of man that would woo you in. >> he was very exciting. >> self-described navy s.e.a.l. football star. millionaire businessman. smart? ? oh, very much. >> like the pied piper. town to town, trusted him. >> he treated me like a father and i treated him like a son. >> women loved him. >> i just fell in love. i knew him six weeks when we got
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married. >> u.s. marshals were after him. >> it was very surreal. >> now a lot of people say they weren't just his partners or loved ones. they were his victims. >> how could somebody do that? >> who was this man. >> that's not bragging. it is -- very truthful. >> what was he hiding? >> they are great people. >> in this hour, "the pretender." >> we were emotionally involved with him. he was like our son. >> ralph met the man who would change his life in the december of 2000. in the most routine way. >> mike came here and he rented an apartment from us. >> they rent out a small apartment attached to their home near the beach in ocean side,
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californ california. but they never had a tenant like mike. >> several trucks and motorcycles. we had the space for it. he paid for six months ahead of time. $5100. >> the man with the wad of cash and stable of cars proved to be a fascinating character. a retired navy man from the elite s.e.a.l.s unit. he became a good friend. >> we p may be watching television at night and he would show up with a quarter of ice cream. or he would bring a whole peelts a. we would go downstairs and share it with him. >> how often would you eat with him? >> i would say just about every week. >> like a family dinner. >> absolutely. absolutely. >> in between those family dinners, mike growing an began spending time down the road in san diego at a bar called harbor
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nights. the bar's owner remembers him very well. >> he told me he was the brother of steve growing an from the new england patriots and he said he also played with the patriots himself and played in the super bowl. >> he had the super bowl ring to prove it and certainly looked the part. about six feet tall and over 200 pounds. but mike growing an said it is what he did after the nfl that was really interest. >> he said he went to work for a small company for a small salary, stock options. he said after a couple of years he accumulated over 1.5 million shares of stock in this company and he said that company was microsoft. >> yes. that microsoft. which meant mike growing an was rolling in money which sounded great to the baroner. >> he said he wanted to remod tell restaurant and make it a model for a chain of restaurants he was about to open. >> growing an got to work getting the restaurant ready to open as grogan's irish
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steakhouse. he became a fixture at that time bar. it is not exactly a trendy bar. an ex-navy s.e.a.l. and pro-football player who also was a multimillionaire made quite an impression on the regular. >> a really cool guy. life of the party type of guy. find out how much money he has, down here with different cars every day fancy cars and big trucks and hot motorcycles mike grogan had them all. grogan took his new friends golfing at pricey clubs. always paying for lunch and dinner and everything in cash. soon the landlord and friend found out how wealthy mike grogan was. >> 23 million in microsoft stock. >> grogan was modest, too.
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when a woman named marina started dating him soon after he hired her to work at the restaurant she says she heard about his wealth and fame from other people. instead she says he liked to talk about her. >> did he listen if you had a problem? >> yes. he was very -- exciting and happen all the time. seemed very generous. and liked helping other people. >> in fact, he offered to help marina to establish better credit by buying some of his cars under her name. >> the bills would -- it is a bills would get paid it would be better for me. >> he was equally helpful with his landlords offering them a stake in a new company. >> that cost us $15,000. initially. >> that's not very much money for 15%. >> not very much, no. >> grogan also offered 15% ownership in the software start-up to one of his drinking
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buddies. that deal was even better. >> the investment would be your credit in your name. >> part owner for just putting his name on dojts and car loans. then with grogan's steakhouse barely open for business, mike decided to open a pizza place, too. >> what did you invest in that? >> $30,000. >> how much in total in did you invest with mike? >> we had two mortgages we took against our home, total $83,000. then we took cash money we gave, $17,000. >> $100,000. >> right. >> money ralph worked his whole life to save up. expected a much bigger return.
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and while mike grogan help friends live his dream of wealth he offered a different kind of dream to marina. >> we were having lunch. he just asked me to be his wife. >> how did you feel? >> i was shocked. very shocked and happy. i figured seize the day. jump in headfirst. >> high wanted to get married right away. at the wedding rehearsal he seemed nervous. >> i made a comb to him like i don't know why you are acting so uptight. you should be excited, et cetera. he said something like it was nothing to do with you. i will explain later. >> could it be he had an inkling what was coming later. the chef heard from the dishwasher something wasn't rig
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right. >> these two old fisherman were here looking for mike. he was too busy worrying about it because he was hosting the event. >> swinging door opened up and i seen the two fishermen guys walk in. >> one of the waiters came out and said you need to get out here. they are arresting mike. >> they were u.s. marshals. >> he came out walking with his hands behind his back. >> by the time i made it outside he was in the police car.
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>> he was in the back of the car handcuffed. he said, ralph, you have to bail me out. so, my wife and i talked about it. we said, this got to be a mistake. let's bail him out. >> ralph tried his best. he was short of cash since he invested so much with mike. but he offered his credit card for the $10,000 bail. and then, he got the shock of his life. when the bail bondsman wouldn't take a chance on mike grogan. why? >> he said this man has other names other than mike grogan. >> other names? his bride-to-be couldn't believe it either. i can't imagine the night before your wedding, the man you're going to spend the rest of your life with -- >> yeah. >> -- is in the back of a police car and a cop is showing you a picture saying, it isn't even him. >> yeah. >> help us understand what that feels like. >> i don't think anybody can understand. it is very -- it is very surreal and horrible. >> a bride left at the altar. friends left with huge debts on luxury cars and an old couple who had invested their life
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savings. they all wanted to know if this man wasn't mike grogan, navy s.e.a.l., football star, millionaire, then who was he? the answer was more complicated than they could imagine. coming up, the con man's past reveals he scored big-time in seattle. >> i saw a million dollar plus check written to open one of the stores. >> and later, he brags about his prowess. >> within two weeks, we would be best friends and he would be investing money. >> when piggly wiggly became available in raleigh, north carolina, she decided to bite. instead of opening just one restaurant she opened three. chicken and honey, chuck's burger and fox liquor bar. they share the same kitchen so she saves money on resources.
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heitman applied for a salesman job back in 1998. the store owner found him charming and impressive. >> 20 years in the military, been through all the ranks and traveled all over the world. now that he was going to be getting out of the military, wanted to do something that he liked and enjoyed. >> what he wanted to do is sell skis, and he was a natural. so no one paid much attention to one odd little thing. >> when he came to work for us, he came to us and said, hi, i'm bob heitman. so, fine. he was bob. and interestingly enough, his id that he showed us said that he was steve heitman. >> steve or bob loved to talk about his military background. which at times seemed somewhat flexible. >> at first it was the army. >> at first it was the army. and then i believe it was the rangers and then a navy s.e.a.l. so, you know, i never did figure that one out. >> according to the military discharge papers he showed, his
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name was steven dale heitman. he had been in the special forces with advanced training in parasailing and scuba diving, and he had not only been to war in operation desert storm, he had been a hero, awarded a bronze star and a purple heart. one thing was certain. he sure knew how to sell skis. >> you heard him sell skis? >> oh, yeah. >> would just smile. >> well, just kind of ad lib to make the sale. and he could definitely sell the skis. but he wasn't -- >> he wasn't telling them -- >> he was telling the them the truth. >> not only knew the equipment but had skied on all of it. >> you knew he didn't? >> right. we knew he hadn't. he hadn't three weeks ago and it was obvious. >> because of the lies the manager said she just couldn't trust heitman. so despite his great sales numbers, she moved him out of ski sales and eventually out the door. but not before he met a valued customer named dale. a man who really was a microsoft millionaire.
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dale from microsoft declined to be interviewed for this story but people that know him describe a good-hearted man with a lot of money to invest. he started off buying a pair of skis from steve heitman. and before you know it, was bankrolling a brand new business, a ski shop called nordic sports haus. >> i saw a million dollar plus check written to open one of the stores. >> this man was an early employ of nordic sports haus, the store steve started with dale's money. >> steve was the one running the stores. dale was basically the money man. i'm throwing as much money at this business to make it work. >> according to employees, steve was happy to help dale throw his money away. >> while my truck was in the shop, steve handed me the keys to a $80,000 porsche said drive this for a couple of days. i mean, the perks were unbelievable. >> the perks and promise of opportunity drew a former colleague as well, that quit his job and came to work at steve heitman's place, even though he had seen heitman lie to customers. >> nobody really trusted him.
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>> did you trust him? >> not really. >> in february 1999, the local newspaper did a business feature on the new ski shop in town. steve heitman was interviewed, and his resume expanded to fill the space provided. she said he served in germany in the army, studied at the university of heidelberg and, of course, was an expert skier from an early age and had worked for the ski-makers atomic and head as a designer and field tester. did you ever see him ski? >> no. nobody had seen him ski. >> steve worked his people hard, but the rewards could be huge. for instance, during a big ski show in las vegas, he took six employees to a nascar race by helicopter. that little field trip cost about ten grand. it may seem like a lot to you, but it was nothing to steve heitman. >> handed me a fanny pack one time, and i go what's in this? he goes, my money. hang on to it.
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i'm like, well, how much money? probably about $200,000, $300,000. >> the ski shop manager who hired and fired steve heitman watched her new competitor spend and spend and scratched her head. >> i hate to tell you it's not a ski industry. we don't make millions of dollars so that really sent up tons of red flags. >> but apparent think didn't send up tons of red flags for the money man, dale from microsoft, even when weird things began to happen. >> when i started to question things, was he -- asked me to get cell phones for the company. >> what happened when you got cell phones? >> the credit check came back as steve heitman being deceased. i went to him immediately and said you're coming back dead. >> as usual, steve had an answer. >> when i was in the military in europe, you know, i didn't have to file taxes, and my social security number basically went dormant. >> soon, nordic sports haus grew to a chain of five shops with locations all around the seattle area. steve married a young woman and
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bought a nice house on 13 acres with a pond for steve's jet ski, a dirt track for steve's motorcycle. >> steve had all of the toys. i think dale bought them all. >> actually, it wasn't all dale's money. some of it was the bank's. lured to a business backed by one partner's ski expertise and the other shares in microsoft, banks loaned millions of dollars to nordic sports haus. only problem was the partner with the know-how, that would be steve, didn't seem to know much at all. he ordered way too much merchandise and soon suppliers weren't even getting paid. $400,000 behind just on snowboards. >> 120 days past due after having 90-day terms. >> he says he went to steve with his concerns and steve replied, by forcing him out of the company. by now steve was into another venture, because, as unbelievable as it sounds, he hooked up with a second, even bigger, microsoft millionaire. coming up, the mystery man is
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identified after robbing the dead. >> just feel like your whole world has been shattered. i mean, how could somebody do that? et him up. [ sizzling ] ♪ i think i hear something. hi dad. hi mom. [ female announcer ] oscar mayer bacon. it's naturally hardwood smoked for hours to be the best. and the best way to wake up your family. [ snoring ] i didn't say i could keep him up. ♪ it doesn't get better than this ♪
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in seattle, steve heitman opened a chain of ski shops without spending a dime of his own money. he had two microsoft millionaires in the palm of his hand. they even bought into an exotic car dealership. and before long, that business was wallowing in debt, too. and then, one day -- >> we were going to meet and ride motorcycles and calling and calling and calling, nope, nobody answers. >> and what happened to him? >> disappeared. straight up disappeared. >> what did you think? >> i laughed. i just -- i spent -- i spent 15 minutes just -- just laughing. >> but the microsoft guys weren't laughing. because when heitman skipped town they claim, he took more than $1 million with him. and he left them with two businesses founded with their
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money which very soon slid into bankruptcy. guys, dale. according to court papers, he had a personal fortune of $4.5 million when he met steve heitman in 1998. by 2000, dale claimed debts of $9.5 million. the seattle media picked up the story, and soon steve heitman's name and face were everywhere. and that's when people realized just as they had in san diego that the man named mike wasn't really mike, that here, the man named steve wasn't steve at all. it's the kind of headline you see every holiday weekend. this particular senseless tragedy took the life of evelyn heitman's oldest son. >> he stepped backwards and fell over the edge of the rock. and went down into the river about 40 feet below.
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>> steve heitman was just 20 when he drowned, and 25 years later, in wenatchee, washington, his mom still grieves. can anybody who hasn't lost a child understand what it's like? >> i don't think so. it's a feeling you never ever get over. >> she was facing another melancholy fourth of july, the anniversary of steve's death, when she came home to find a reporter had left a message on her machine. >> he says i suspect somebody is using your dead son's identity, so i listened to that message at least three or four times. >> do you remember how you felt? >> oh, i mean, just feel like your whole world is -- been shattered. i mean, how could somebody do that? >> but there was the story in the seattle paper called "the eastside journal." a mystery man set up big businesses with other people's money, lived the high life and skipped town with as much as $1.2 million.
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leaving the business and millionaire partner bankrupt. and for all the world knew, this shady character's name was steve heitman, evelyn's son. >> you feel violated. it's an invasion of privacy. >> and for you a sacred memory? >> yeah. >> yet evelyn heitman couldn't figure it out? why her son, why her sacred memory? and who was the man staring at her from the front page of the newspaper? a thousand miles away, a man who had also lost a son was staring at the same newspaper brought to him by a relative. >> and she said this sounds like the guy that scammed you out of your guns and businesses and everything. she handed me the paper. it was jim rowe. >> so finally, the mystery man was identified. not mike or steve or bob. but jim. jim rowe. james ruben rowe, to be exact.
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at long last a real name, but that was all that was real about him. >> it's been very gratifying to be here in st. george. it is a very special place. >> like the time jim rowe in a navy s.e.a.l. uniform spoke to a class of high school students about his years in an elite commando unit, about sacrifice and friendship and faith, in a speech arranged by ron nelson. >> anybody that i served with, i would have gladly laid my life down for. and i can say the same thing for anyone that served with me. >> or when nelson, whose family is prominent in the mormon church, sponsored jim rowe's baptism. >> i just trusted jim wholeheartedly. nobody could make me feel any different. >> and all the while, nelson claims, jim rowe was stealing. like the time rowe brokered the sale of his collection of antique rifles, sold them far too cheap and pocketed all the proceeds.
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>> he sold $250,000 of them for $38,000. >> he kept the money? >> and kept the money. >> of course, rowe split town soon enough. leaving his friend and surrogate father bankrupt. >> very worst thing that's ever happened to me in my life. i about lost my wife and my family. it's devastating. >> so, when ron nelson saw the man that ruined his life plastered all over the front of the seattle newspaper under the name of steve heitman, he was eager to tell the world the mystery man's real name. and when evelyn heitman heard that name, something finally clicked. >> i recognized the name. so i got the yearbooks out. >> she found him there, jim rowe, a classmate of her long lost son steve. to work his big seattle scheme, the con man had stolen the identity of a dead high school buddy. >> i don't think he feels bad. >> doesn't have a conscience? >> i don't think he does. coming up -- falling in love with the con man.
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people around the world are remembering whitney houston, the legendary singer died yesterday at the age of 48. the cause of haas ton's death is under investigation. she was discovered in a beverly hills hotel room. newly released video shows houston in a party on thursday. she sang briefly before waving to the crowd. houston is the only woman to have more than one album spend more than ten weeks on top of the billboard charts. she will be missed. more news in one hour. broke our family's heart, my heart. i will say it. ron nelson styles himself an old cowboy, a former gun dealer and broker whose roots in utah go back eight generations. his history with jim rowe began in 1992.
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you see, ron nelson had lost a young son in a terrible accident, and it turned out that jim rowe, too, had a sad secret. >> he said his wife and his two children were burned up in a fire in laurel, mississippi. >> so you had lost a son in a tragic accident? >> i lost a son. >> he told you he lost his whole family? >> that's right. >> in a tragic accident. >> that's right. >> and soon it slipped out that jim rowe was just about the same age as nelson's son would have been had he lived. >> he studied me. he knew all my family. he knew my son was shot and killed. he treated me like a father, and i treated him like a son. maybe the son that got killed. >> from here, things developed in a way you will find depressingly familiar. jim rowe was, as a usual, an ex-navy s.e.a.l., a hero of desert storm, but he wasn't a football player yet. southern utah is mountain bike country, so he claimed to be an expert mountain biker.
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soon he and ron nelson and ron nelson's money were going into business together. but there was more than business here. much more. >> when he left town, i hired a good attorney, and he said my only way out was to file bankruptcy, chapter 7 bankruptcy. i was just devastated. i was, you know, right near suicide. >> imagine, the kind of man who would steal a dead friend's name, trade on the memory of a dead little boy, all in the service of con games. now imagine being married to him. what do you call a crime to what he did to you? what is that crime called? >> i don't know why, but the word murder comes into my mind. >> kimberly met jim rowe even before ron nelson did.
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she was 24. single, two small kids and no money when rowe walked into her life. >> he struck me as handsome and appealing and very warm. and very friendly, and i just wanted to be around him. i wanted to be wherever he was. >> he was, of course, a retired navy s.e.a.l. told her all about his comrades in arms and his combat experience. >> he used to take me out in his navy dress whites. >> how did you feel then? >> oh, like a queen. >> remember how he liked to show a vulnerable side? he told ron nelson his family died in a fire. kimberly heard a more heart wrenching variation, and amazing and it begins to seem path logical in its detail. >> he had been out to sea and his wife and three children were driving a little red volkswagen convertible he had bought for them, and they were hit by a drunk driver. the impact was so severe his wife and baby had died immediately.
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and both of the children who were still alive were brain dead. and that he needed to make a decision about removing the life support and then he let his babies go. >> he was strong and sensitive and soon -- >> i just fell in love. i think i knew him six weeks when we got married. >> they moved into a lovely house filled with beautiful antiques. >> i woke up and smiled every day. >> how long was everything perfect? >> six weeks. september 23rd. >> oh, you remember the day? >> yep. >> the phone in the lovely house rang. on the line was a woman jim rowe had called his aunt. a woman who now said she wasn't his aunt at all and who said kimberly's dream house and everything in it was hers. >> she said, did he tell you the furniture belongs to him? i said, yes. she said, did he tell you this house belongs to him? i said, yes.
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she said all of this is mine. >> the woman said she had only known rowe a few weeks, and she didn't think he was who he said he was. jim was away on business, he said, and all alone in that house that suddenly felt so foreign. kimberley began to realize she had only known him a few weeks herself. >> i just thought, what if? you know, what if? what if? i called the navy and i asked for the s.e.a.l. team commander that he had named, that he had served under all those years, and they never heard of him. they transferred me around to a couple of different s.e.a.l. teams in case i had the wrong team. they were very nice to me. but he didn't exist. >> she went stone cold. the rush through her body was fear. the man who swept her off her feet, married her and became father to her children, everything about him was a lie. >> i really don't know if he is
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someone who just deceived me for fun or if he's someone whose intent is to harm my family. could be as frightening as you can imagine because you don't know what you're dealing with at all. >> kimberly grabbed her kids and ran from james rowe, so frightened of him, she changed her name and said the government allowed her to change her social security number, too. >> the thing i don't think that people comprehend is if someone takes a baseball bat and breaks down my front door and comes in and rapes me and harms my children and steals everything i have, the consequence is exactly the same as what i went through with this gentleman. >> what kind of man could do that? what will he have to say for himself? >> i was so far the best i had ever met. but that's not bragging. that's being very truthful. >> coming up, jim rowe reveals the tricks of the trade. >> the quickest way to find out if you can b.s. someone is give them a b.s. answer and see if they go, absolutely? after that, you know it's on.
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they're great people. i screwed them. >> meet james rowe, alias mike grogan, alias steve heitman or aliases galore, investigators say. we interviewed him at a san diego jail where he faced felony charges for stealing the life savings of ralph, his landlordm and friend, who we met at the start of our story. at first, he seemed so sorry about all his victims. >> i'm probably feeling half of what i caused. i don't know. pain. remorse. regret. memories of stuff i didn't even remember happened. stuff -- i've never been at a loss for words, and i find myself at a loss for words a lot lately so -- >> and yet, as we talked, he sometimes suggested his victims were no more honest than he was.
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>> if the average person that did business with me had their life opened up the way i had, i wonder how much they would have scrutiny. >> he also tried to minimize the crimes, like the million plus dollars he allegedly stole from the microsoft guys. >> i don't have millions of dollars stuffed anywhere. i had $206,000 with me when i left seattle and nine rolex watches. >> he offered tips, too. >> the quickest way to find if you can b.s. somebody is to give them a b.s. answer and see if they go absolutely. after that, you know that it's on. >> and at times, it must be said he also revealed what can only be called professional pride. >> if you and i sat down in a restaurant, i would be able to ascertain what you wanted and who you were and what i needed to do to get inside of your head probably within 45 minutes. within two weeks we would be best friends, and you would be investing money. >> he said his dad was a con man but something of an amateur.
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so your father was the con man. your mother was the mark? >> my mom was a mark and also a facilitator. she allowed him to be what he was. >> jim rowe is a pro. are you impressed by athletes? he will buy a super bowl ring with someone else's money and then -- >> somebody walked up and said, hey, that's a great ring. did you play? well, hell, yes, i played. you know, it feeds itself. >> or perhaps he is applying for a job at your ski job. what did you tell them about your skiing experience? >> that i was a great skier, that i was on the army's all-ski team. >> you ever skied before? >> not a day in my life. >> yet you will remember he became a top ski salesman, started a ski business and allegedly conned not one but two microsoft millionaires. >> some of your victims said this guy is so smart, he's such a good salesman, he could be a multi-millionaire legitimately. but, no, he needed to do it backwards.
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>> that's correct. you know, it's easier to do it backwards. >> easier? >> sure. come on. i had -- i -- i had two guys from microsoft investing almost $10 million in four months. >> but they would have invested it legitimately. >> i understand that, but i couldn't be legitimate. i didn't know how. >> maybe he really didn't. jim rowe told us about cons stretching back almost two decades all across the country. in massachusetts, a job driving a truck for a lumberyard turned into an embezzlement scheme. >> i think the total is $22,000 they came up with. i think it was a lot more than that. >> in colorado he got a job drilling water wells, and soon his foreman was giving him money. >> i think bob invested somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 to $45,000. i don't remember the exact amount. >> he worked at a machine shop near san diego as head of quality control. quality control of what? >> precision machine parts.
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>> what did you know about precision machine parts? >> as much as you do. >> he is not just bragging, by the way. the scams all really happened, and he never went to jail for them. but then, there was the time that he worked for a company that prints blank government checks. >> i took them. i put them in my briefcase and cashed one check for $57,000. >> he got caught that time and was sent to prison. but then, he walked away from his halfway house and into another almost unbelievable scam. you will remember that one of the most consistent elements of jim rowe's various identities was that of an elite military officer, usually a navy s.e.a.l. most of his victims believed him, perhaps because there was a grain of truth in it. rowe did enlist in the army and the navy and even briefly in the marines. though hardly in an elite capacity. >> i wasn't a -- wasn't a navy s.e.a.l. i was a cook. wasn't glamorous.
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wasn't neat. wasn't exciting. >> but he was familiar enough with the ways of the military. that when he was in san diego on the run from the law he found the perfect hiding place. >> i go down to the army/navy store. i buy a naval officer's uniform. i would take the bus to the base. >> talked your way on to the base? >> i don't need i.d. nobody is going to question me with five rose of ribbons and a s.e.a.l. crest on his shield. >> posing as a s.e.a.l. >> talking to real life s.e.a.l.s. >> he didn't swap war stories but convinced civilian investors for a phony business supposedly cleaning ships' hulls and ran the scam from the base officers' quarters. >> $10,000 minimum investment required. and most people that invest money, all 26 of them, invest in cash. >> so you wound up with over $100,000?
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>> closer to 250, yeah. >> in six months? >> in three weeks. >> you're good. >> i told you that before. >> it sounds unbelievable. but the feds confirm it. and for someone this good, it was almost too easy to steal the identity of an old high school chum in seattle. >> i go to the funeral home. again, i'm in my uniform. i say, i'm so and so and looking up the death of my friend. she goes back to the back and brings a book with the funeral and who attended and his mom's name and maiden name and his social security number and everything. and now i have all the information that i need. and now i go to the public safety building and get a birth certificate. and now i go to north seattle community college and register for classes and get the student i.d. card.
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and now i take that and i go to the seattle public schools, and i get steve's transcripts. and i go to the department of motor vehicles and i get i.d. >> now you're steve? >> now i'm steve. coming up -- people will call you a predator. >> sure. >> is that true? >> probably, yeah. >> but has he turned over a new leaf? >> i know that i read my bible every day. i know that i pray. i know that a lot of it gives me a little comfort. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50% annual bonus! so you earn 50% more cash. according to research, everybody likes more cash. well, almost everybody... ♪ would you like 50% more cash? no! but it's more money. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash.
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any better, but if steve were alive, steve would laugh his butt off at this. he would sit there and howl. >> he says he needed an air-tight new identity to work his magic on the microsoft guys. but for most of his cons, he just made up any name he pleased. >> i rarely used any i.d. i mean, once you've been to a bank three times, they no longer ask you for i.d. make sure you hit the same teller every time. smile and wave at the vice president even if he doesn't know you. he'll wave back and then the teller says if he knows so and so, he is okay. >> are you thinking this consciously when you do it? this is the plan, i have to wave at the vice president? >> yeah. >> little wheels going all the time. >> not one little wheel in there. big, major heavy duty high-powered wheels in there. wheels that he admits just crushed his victims. from sharp, young millionaires to trusting women, to vulnerable senior citizens. >> there are two rules that i went by when i was on the outside.
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conning people. first is it fool and the money should never be together in the first place, and the second one is, don't get attached to anything you can't leave in ten minutes, ten minutes. bye, got to go. >> but he claims those mental wheels stopped cold after he conned the microsoft guys, while he was still conning the san diego crowd when he fell hard for one woman. he says he knew the feds were closing in as he was planning to marry marina, but he just couldn't leave. he was mortified that she saw him arrested. what did it do to marina? >> it killed her. >> and he says, the sudden realization of the pain he caused, all of the pain he caused, drove him to confess his sins to the law and to us. do you know what the heck you are? >> yeah. i'm a guy that has memories of modus of sprees that never should have been his in the
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first place and a girl that has an unfailing love and care for him that is now shattered. that's who i am. and that's why i don't feel very good about me. i hate me. >> prison has a way of changing your perspective. but could it be that the con man finally found and bared his soul? all for the love of a woman, the woman he almost married? >> there is a whole lot of lies that i'm fessing up to right now that go beyond breaking the law, you know? they go beyond being illegal. they go to immortality. they go to cruelness almost. >> for my own well being, i have to believe that there is parts of him that are good. that it wasn't all a fake persona. >> but a woman he did marry says don't kid yourself.
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do you think he was conning us? >> i think everything that comes out of his mouth is a con. i don't think there's any reality for him. >> and amid the lies, emotional wreckage. victims who say he stole much more than their money. he stole their love, their faith in people, as ralph and rosalie testified in court. >> a day doesn't go by that we don't talk about it. >> sure. >> because he left some deep scars. >> sure. >> in our soul, in our hearts. >> because jim rowe has never been accused of physical that changed in san diego when got six years. >> and if you're conning
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charges in seattle accused of sentenced to 12 1/2 years. >> is this enough for you? have you seen the light, or are you just going to con yourself? cannot be imposed without a which means jim rowe might be a jim rowe's past has come back to he is facing additional charges yet another investment scam. to 15 years if convicted, but
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>> but will people call him a >> i could be anything. >> according to his defense this time ministering to fellow >> i know that i read my bible every day. >> jim rowe is taking bible has every intention he says of by the time he's released from pastor jim. >> you know the most religious people on the planet crucified >> it is through the new-found
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